February 17, 2021 • 30 mins
On June 10th, 1993, Henry Gomez was wounded, and Manny Quintero was killed in a drive-by shooting in Harlem. Alleged ex coke dealer turned NYPD cop AJ Melino and repeat wrongful conviction offender Detective Mark Tebbens joined forces with members of the Yellow Top crack gang to spin a tale that sent Pablo Fernandez away for almost 25 years in exchange for leniency.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
In the early nineties, the crack epidemic was in full swing,
and violence between rival gangs, the Red Top Crew and
the Yellow Top Crew, among others, gripped Harlem and other
parts of the city. On June tenth, nineteen ninety three,
a slender, light skinned man in his forties with a
gray ponytail rolled up to a building on West one
hundred and thirty fifth Street and open fire, wounding fifteen
(00:24):
year old Henry Gomez and killing eighteen year old Manny Kintero.
The case went cold for two years. Then two members
of Yellowtop joined forces with a corrupt detective and officer
team to bring a close to this case in exchange
for leniency in their own cases. Officer aj Molino had
been involved in dealing at some point himself. The detective
(00:47):
was Mark Tebbins, the same one responsible for Danny Ringcon's
wrongful conviction in the bungling of another Red Top.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Cruse shooting in the Bronx.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
These members of Yellowtop made up a story that Pablo
fort and As had been hired by Redtop to carry
out the June tenth shooting. Then Tevins and Malino used
misleading identification tactics to trick or coerce several teenage eyewitnesses
to build what they knew was a farcical case. The
prosecution followed suit to turn Pablo, a stocky, darker skin
(01:18):
twenty two year old with short black hair, into this slender,
forty something light skin shooter with a gray ponytail. Pablo
spent almost twenty five years behind bars, and it took
nearly a decade and a half of pro bono work
from legal giant Paul Weiss to win his freedom. This
is Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. Welcome back to Wrongful
(01:54):
Conviction with Jason Flamm. That's me. I'm your host, and
today I want to introduce first the tourney who spent
thousands of hours pro bono on this case. So Dave Brown,
thanks for being here on the show.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Today, Thanks for having me Jason, and.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
With us, of course is the person who endured this
night mare that you're about to hear about and live
to tell the story. So now it's my great privilege
to introduce you to Pablo Fernandez Babo. Thank you for
being here with us today.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
And this story goes back to the early nineties. Pablo,
you came from the Dominican Republic, right, And you ended
up as a teenager in Upper Manhattan at the height
of the crack epidemic. What was it like growing up
in that crazy time that we've heard so much about.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
It was way deeferent to day crying.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
Every day you walking in this three, you see the
house in the botto of the crack the floor.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
You see a lot of cracking people walking in this
three like a son.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Be Gunshots could be heard regularly around the clock, not
just at nighttime in those days. And you had a
police force that out of control as well. And Dave
take us back to the original crime and how this
turned into this terribly flawed case and ultimately wonwful conviction.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
The crime in question took place on June tenth, nineteen
ninety three.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
It was a.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Drive by shooting where a car drives down one hundred
and thirty fifth Street, stops. The gunman gets out for
just a few seconds from the passenger side, fires several shots,
kills Manny Kintaro, wounds Henry Gomez, jumps back in the car,
and the car drives away. A number of eye witnesses
saw that shooting. They called in to nine one one
(03:37):
with descriptions. Some of them were interviewed by the police
either that evening or in the days that followed, and
they all described the shooter as having light skin, in
his thirties or forties, tall, thin build, gray or salt
and pepper hair pulled back in a pony tail. And
Pablo looked nothing like that description. In nineteen ninety three,
he was twenty years old, he had short, dark hair,
(03:59):
stock built, he had never worn his hair long, much
less in a ponytail. And the case went cold, we believed,
because the police failed to follow up on leads. They
sent officers who didn't speak Spanish to conduct interviews in
the neighborhood around where the shooting took place, and they
just came back and reported, well, we couldn't communicate with
(04:19):
some of the witnesses because they spoke Spanish. Wow, and
just we think there was no serious effort to really
solve this clime.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
So the case goes cold.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Approximately two years later, NYPD officers engaged in a really
brazen and corrupt scheme to manufacture evidence against Pablo, faced
with the facts that he bore no resemblance to the
shooter and there was never any physical or forensics or
(04:48):
ballistic evidence that connected him to the crime, and there
was absolutely no motive for him to committed the crime.
But let me start with the police officers who were
the primary.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Architects of this place to falsely.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Incriminate Pablo, NYPD Officer Albert Molino. He went by aj
who had ties to the drug trade himself from before
he went to the police academy, and also Detective Mark Tevians.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Our audience might remember Mark Tebans from another case that
we covered recently, Danny Rincolone case, and of course all
the corrupt tactics that he used to make that preposterous
case stick as well.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
The corrupt and unconstitutional tactics that they used were not
unique to them. I mean, these were commonplaces n MIPD,
homicide and serious felony investigations during the early mid nineteen nineties,
and the way they constructed this false case was based
on Perger testimony.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
At the center of this corrupt investigation were two members
of the Yellow Top Crew, who were rivals of the
Red Top Crew. Now, in those days, of course, the
crews were named after the colored caps of the crack
files that they sold. Those Yellow Tops had two motives
to give up seemingly useful but false information to the police.
(06:08):
One was to help their own charges and the other
was to try to inflict damage on their arrivals, the
Red Top Crew, and these two individuals that worked with
Melino and Tabins were Raymond Dilly Rivera and the leader
of the Yellow Top Crew, whose name was Martin Chango Mehias.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Now Mahias was known in the streets to be a crazy,
violent drug dealer, and he was arrested in June of
nineteen ninety four charged with three counts of murder, one
kind of attempted murder, and multiple drug conspiracy charges, and
he was facing potential life in prison, so he decided
that he would cooperate with the Manhattan Die's office and
(06:51):
testify against other people to get a lighter sentence. He
put away dozens of people who worked for him, and
around that time Rivera, who was one of the chief
lieutenants in the Yellow Top Crew, came into the Benhatan
Die's office and he confessed that he had committed more
than five hundred felonies, including assaults, robberies, and attempted murder.
He was never charged for any of those crimes. So
(07:14):
somehow Melino and Teppans urged these two cooperators, Mihias and Rivera,
to say that they knew Pablo had been hired to
do this shooting for the leader of the Red Top crew.
They said that they saw Pablo being paid money to
do the shooting, about twenty five hundred dollars, and one
of them said that after the shooting he saw Pablo
(07:36):
come back and meet with the person who had hired
him to do the shooting and take out a shell
casing and say this is the bullet that killed Kintaro.
They said that they knew that Pablo wore disguise like
a wig, or he painted his hair.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And of course we would have also had to believe
that he had a makeup artist on hand who could
have changed his skin color. But you can't be stocky
and pretend you're skinny. That doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
None of this was true.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
And then early nineteen ninety five, detective Tevins and Officer
Milino found two eyewitnesses who had seen the shooting. Now,
when these kids saw the shooting, they were approximately thirteen
years old, and both of them were cousins of Manniquintaro.
One of them his name was Hiccliffe Rosario and the
other's name was George Rosario, and both of them had
(08:23):
reported seeing a light skinned shooter, you know, long gray hair,
thirties or forties do the killing. But they were pressured
by Melino and Tebbns to falsely identify Pablo as the shooter,
in part because the police just kept pointing to pictures
of Pablo over and over and over saying this is
(08:43):
a shooter. The police officers lied to Hicckcliffe and George
Rosario and said, you know, even though he may not
have been the shooter, he had something to do with
the crime, so.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
You should say that he did it.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
And if you look at the picture from Pablo's lineup,
they're six men and five of them are where white
T shirts. And Pablo was put in completely different clothes
to make it easier for the witnesses to falsely incriminate him.
I think this is something they had done many times before.
You would think that it would be incredibly difficult to
frame an innocent person for murder. It almost seemed effortless
(09:18):
for these corrupt police officers.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
And Paba, what was it like going through this for you?
Did you understand what was going on.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
And the beginning, though I thought I learned a little
about little, it was real for me.
Speaker 5 (09:31):
I just have my song, my first baby, to change
that life, that quiet like that that in one one second,
it's real hard.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
They have me in the Rackets Island, you know by
that dying Rackets Island was.
Speaker 5 (09:46):
The acquisition that I have something that I know that
I'm not doing man my song.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Every time I see my soul in the cool it
was It's.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
It's impossible, I think for anyone who hasn't been through
it to imagine what you went through. I mean, you're
twenty years old, you're still a kid. Now you're thrust
into a very adult situation that you didn't cause and
you didn't create. And I want to just highlight one
of the things on the Innesis project has led to charge,
among other organizations, to make videotaping of interrogations mandatory, but
(10:22):
also the photo arrays, lineup procedures, all of that, anything
involving eye witnesses should also be videotaped. That's the only
way we can clamp down on these type of practices.
And they're not always as nefarious as this one was, right,
but if they're influencing the witness in any way. The
jury must know about that. And that brings us to
(10:43):
the trial, which was January nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
And let me start just a few weeks before the
trial begins. Actually, because it appears that Melino and Teppans
they knew approaching the trial as was a weak case.
They had two cooperators obviously had motives to lie and
fabricate evidence, and then you had these two teenagers who
(11:06):
have been pressured to lie, and so it looks like
they went out to try to bolster this case. And
they found two more eyewitnesses and one of them, his
name was Hayes's Canela. Canela recants in the mid two thousands, actually.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
As do the Rosarios.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
But Canela, when he came forward, he said that he
had been pressured by the police officers and they showed
him a picture of Pablo, not even a photo array,
just a single photographic Pablo, saying this is the person
who did the crime. And then they told him you
don't have to testify in court about the fact that
you saw this photo. So this witness is found two
(11:42):
weeks before the trial, right, it's now two and a
half years since he saw the murder, and he testifies
that he still recognizes Pablo, even though you know Pablo
was supposedly wearing a disguise at the time, and he
says he's never seen any pictures of Pablo up until then,
although of course, just two weeks before trial started he
indeed was some pictures of Pablo, but that's all covered up.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
It's so bad because you can do nothing. You can
say nothing. It's like it's somebody punching you and you
can do nothing. Everything was lying.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
So Pablo, when the jury came back, what was that
moment like.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
When you told me that I'm guilty? Oh man, I
thought I want to die.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
I feel my bie, like like I hold in one
thousand pounds my back and look you back to see
my family. All my family was crying. I was crying.
I was crying. I can't hold it. When you know
that you hemasy and they find you guilty or something
that you want to confront twenty five years, it's crazy.
(12:42):
I lost my family, love my song, I love everybody.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
This episode is underwritten by the AIG Pro Bono program.
AIG is a leading global insurance company, and for over
a decade, the AIG pro bono program has provided thousands
of hours of free legal services and other support to
nonprofit organizations and individuals most in need. More recently, the
program added criminal and social justice reform as a key
(13:18):
pillar of its mission.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
The case against Pablo really began to fall apart just
a few days after the trial when the DA's office
came to Pablo's trial council and said, we've had to
arrest Officer aj Malino because we discovered that he was
under investigation by the New York State Troopers for dealing
large amounts of cocaine to.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Undercover cops a few years prior, right.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Before he went into the police academy, and for some
reason that investigation stalled, but it was reopened during the trial.
Alino is arrested right after the trial, but the DA's
office never follows up to prosecute him, and after about
five years the case is dismissed for failure to prosecute. Now,
(14:07):
it's my theory that somebody who's dealing large amounts of
drugs and it goes into the police academy does not
stop after they've become a police officer, and we'll see
what comes to bite in Pablo's civil case. But I
think this was likely a corrupt officer through and through again.
We know during this time there were other officers in
(14:28):
UPTAH Manhattan who were dealing drugs themselves, providing protection to
drug dealers, robbing drug dealers, and signed the drugs themselves.
And you know, Melino certainly seems to fit that pattern.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yeah, and one would think that that would cause an
immediate reopening of the case or retrial or something. But
of course we know that it took the most twenty
five years for this to be resolved, and thousands of
hours of pro bono legal work from you and your
team at Paul Weiss. You know, it's one of the
things that gives me hope, just the fact that there
are people like you and firms like Paul Weiss and
(15:01):
so many others that provide almost limitless resources of human
talent to help someone like Pablo get out of what
is almost impossible.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Morassed, Dave, you.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Didn't get involved to two thousand and five, but talk
to us about this crazy appellate process.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
The next major event occurs in two thousand and two.
Hicclab and George Rosaria both recanted their trial testimony. And
they met with a lawyer who was representing Pablo at
the time, and they provided sworn testimony stating that Malino
and others had pressured them to falsely identify Pablo as
the shooter. That Hicclo stated that he was positive that
Pablo had not shot Caintaro. George said that he never
(15:43):
would have identified Pablo as the shooter if he had
not been told by the police that Pablo was involved,
and that he had been pressured to identify Pablo after
being shown.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Pablo's picture again.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
The appellate courts did not consider this evidence enough.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
To free Publo.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
The next year, in two thousand and three, Henry Gomez
so the second victim of the shooting. He provided sworn
testimony that Pablo was not the man who shot him
and didn't look like the shooter. That is not enough either. Now,
in two thousand and five, my law firm got involved.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Paul Wise, what are the top law firms not in
the city in the world, comes in, you know, to
the rescue. How did his case land on your radar?
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Now we do a lot of pro bono work at
Paul Weis, including criminal defense work, criminal justice reform work.
But as your question indicated, you know why, of all
of the thousands and thousands of criminal defendants in the
New York State system, how do we get involved in
Paplo's case.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Well, there was a Yale.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Law student named Andrew Goldstein who, because of a program
at Yale Law School, became aware of this case. And
then he came to Paul Weise for our summer associate program,
which lasts about eight.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
To ten weeks.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
And when he came in, he said, can I get
some support from Paul Whise to help me on Pablo's case?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
And we said sure.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
We thought this was going to be something that we
helped Andrew Goldstein with for a summer. Well, that summer
lasted fourteen years. Andrew ended up coming to the firm
as an associate where he worked on the case, and
then he left us after about four or five years,
and he became a prosecutor in the US Attorney's Office
(17:28):
in the Southern District, and he went on to work
on Bob Moller's team a few years ago and is
now back in private practice and just so overjoyed that
the case that he brought in as a law student
ended with such a great result, even though it took
to such a long time for justice to be delivered.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
What did it mean to you when Dave and his
team first got involved with your case and to have
their support, And how did that feel?
Speaker 5 (17:58):
The lawyer that I have so d even the thing came,
they told me, listen, you look, you got the best
loyal United States and maybe in the war you got
one of the best loyal And I was so happy,
my family too, because you know, I woant to be
in the best hang.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
That I can be. That's that's the only way I
came home.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
And I want to get to that, you know, the
good part, your freedom. So let's go right back to
that post conviction history. In two thousand and five, Paul
Weisse took the case, and then there was another recantation.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
In twenty ten, ten Haines's Canela recants, and again that
motion is denied. One of the reasons that the New
York State judge said that this witness was not to
be believed is because he said, well, he was trying
too hard to be convincing when he recanted, which is
(18:54):
just such a ridiculous and bizarre thing to say. And
with lost in all the state court appeals, in the
Federal District Court, and now we're going up to the
Federal Appeals Court, and we knew that if we lost,
it was over. We would have only had the ability
to appeal to the Supreme Court, and there was almost
(19:15):
a zero chance that they would ever have taken this case.
So this was really our last stop. And this is
really a case that shows you the value of perseverance.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Well, it certainly does, because in February of twenty nineteen,
the US Court of Appeals for the Second District finally
overturned the conviction, ruling that it was unconstitutional and citing
the state court's denial as a quote unquote unreasonable determination
on the grounds that Canela was and again I'm quoting here,
trying too hard to be convincing end quote. So now
(19:51):
the conviction is overturned, but the indictment still stands because
there's no statute of limitations on murder, and the DA
comes in you with the deal right to go free
immediately if you plead guilty to manslaughter. But yet on
the other hand, they could still retry you. You had
twenty five to life, so parole was just around the corner.
(20:13):
But there's no guarantee you there either, because who knows,
Like if you wouldn't have admitted guilt, if you had
refused the deal, you might still be sitting in prison today.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
I understand, but it's never passed from my mind to
take any deal with him. From the beginning, I will
fire for my freedom. So after all this, jed walking
in MKA and try to be free to prove my
ino say, I'm not going to take nothing for these
people nothing.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
You know.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
At first, we have the defense team thought there's no
way the DA's office is going to retry this case.
The hicclerf Rosario has recanted, George Rosario has recanted, Jesu's
Canella has recanted. We learned that Rivera was a quadriplegic
and gravely ill, not even able to speak, and then
Mihias was a drug dealer who had served a significant
(21:17):
amount of time in prison. And there's absolutely no case left.
And so during the spring of twenty nineteen, the DA's
office was making one disclosure after another to us that
showed that the case was even worse than we had known.
But we contacted Martin Maheis and he made some incredible
(21:40):
exclosures to us. He told our investigator, you know, when
I was cooperating with the police, I was supposed to
go back to the Rikers Island after I testified, or
after I met.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
With the DIA's office.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
But Melino and Tevins would take me all around the city.
We would go to Dallas barbecue, we would get drunk.
They would take me to visit girlfriends, take me shopping.
I was drinking a lot at the time. I was
drunk when I testified. I viewed Tevins as a friend,
(22:14):
basically indicating that he would have done anything to please
the police. He also said the police had given him
marijuana to sell in prison. I mean, this was just
amazing to us. And we got similar disclosures from the
Manhattan Die's office about Mihias in July of twenty nineteen.
(22:35):
Information to show that Mihias said, I'm not going to
testify for you again. The police told me to lie
in the trial in nineteen ninety six. I'm not going
to testify again. So then we learned just some shocking
information about Raymond Rivera. Raymond Rivera said that he saw
Pablo two days before the murder and that he witnessed
(22:59):
Pop being hired to shoot Canterero. Now, at this time,
according to what the DA's office disclosed to US, Rivera
could not have been in Upper Manhattan witnessing Pablo or
anybody else being paid to do this murder because during
this time, Rivera was actually incarcerated in state prison more
(23:20):
than three hundred miles away from New York City, and
that meant that his testimony was just outright pergury. He
could not have been in New York he could now
have been in Manhattan. They were prison records, new York
state records that showed that he was incarcerated at the time,
And when these disclosures came out, the DA's office decided
(23:42):
to stop fighting the case, and Pablo was first released
on bail in August of twenty nineteen, and then in
September of twenty nineteen, the DA's office asked the trial
court to dismiss the case against Pablo. In September twenty nineteen,
two days before his birthday, Pablo walked out of Manhattan
(24:05):
Criminal Court. Finally a freeman.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
The day that you've been waiting for for twenty five
years has finally come. You're innocent, Your lawyers know you're innocent.
The whole time, your family, You're innocent the whole time.
Now everyone knows, the court has said it. What was
that moment like when you were finally declared actually innocent
and set free?
Speaker 5 (24:27):
Wow, it was amazing day. It was It was my
day every day. I was thinking in that day, and
I know that one day going to come.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
That was the date.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
I was so happy that the through came out.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
And that I was rep free.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
But in the same way, I feel a little bad.
My fatherly passed away when I was in jail twenty fourteen.
And one other thing that I want to is to
see my family or in my father, they see my freedom,
they see me out or my father know how the
opportunity to see me. He knows that I'm from the beginning,
(25:08):
so I can show him, you know, my freedom. I
feel happy that I'm free, pro in the same in
the same time, I feel little.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
I don't know how to say, but I'm.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
Feeling my father in my in my hall, that I
can see him, that I can hold him, you know,
and show him I'm here with you again.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
The good news is your home now You're never going back.
And Pablo, I have to ask how I mean people
out here in the free world, trying to find love,
going everywhere, looking online, on here, on there, going out,
and you found love from behind the walls of prison.
(25:50):
I mean, you're a charming guy. But still, that's amazing.
Speaker 5 (25:54):
Can you explain we know each other from outside before
I get out that when I get told in jail
a friend of mine, he was my wife Tania best friend. Broadly,
we see that we from the same Abia, and we
started talking about people. And when I'm mentioning Manitania, so
he said, listen, my sister is Tanya's friend. So the
(26:18):
same day he called so his sister that I was here,
and next day I got a visit Fontania. Since the
that day we're together. That happened two thousand and three. See,
I missed one busy, she allways come to see me.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, and you two got married. She I mean, it's amazing. Really,
she's stuck by you the whole way. It's beautiful and
it's just gotta feel amazing. And I know I speak
for so many others, all of us here at Ronful
Conviction and everyone in your in your very wide circle.
Now when I say that we wish you to all
(26:55):
the best, that life has to offer any other news.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
Now I got a new soul, now come out.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Ah, great stuff. Congratulations to you both. So I mean,
there's really nowhere left to go after that. So let's
just end on a high note here and go straight
to closing arguments, which is of course a segment on
the show, my favorite segment when I thank both of you,
each of you for being here, and then I shut
my microphone off, just kick back and listen as I
(27:27):
hear whatever you want to say, whatever you want to
talk about it. Let's start with David first and leave
you Pablo for last.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Thanks Jason. I just want to say that it was
such an honor and a privilege to represent Pablo, to
fight for him to meet his family, his mother, his sisters,
other members of his family, his wife Tanya, who is
just such a lovely, impressive woman. I'm just so happy
(27:57):
for Pablo and Tanya that even though Pop in twenty
four years in prison and fourteen fifteen years of their marriage,
Pablo was incarcerated, now that they get a chance to
be together and to have a child together, and they
have two other children and this will be a third,
and this is just really wonderful as I said before,
(28:18):
it's just so rewarding to.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Do this type of work.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
I would urge every lawyer I know to try to
get involved in.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Criminal justice reform work.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
It doesn't have to be an innocent case, but there's
so much work that needs to be done around criminal
justice reform, and especially if you are at a large
firm like Ballwise, there's so many resources that you can
bring to bear, and there's so many wrongs that need
to be righted, especially in the New York.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Criminal justice system.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
There have been a lot of cases that NYPD has
been involved in. It had terrible, unjust tragic results, and
these cases can also be a lot of fun. It
is fun to be on the right side of his
tree and on the right side of justice, and it's
energizing in the morning to get up and know that
you're fighting for an anescent person.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
I want to say thank you.
Speaker 5 (29:12):
I feel so grateful for Wise, everybody that's working in
the case.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
That's the only reason they know I'm innocying. They do
the best.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
Yes, they made my dream through, they made my freedom
or my family happy. Now I enjoyed my song because
then and everything, because you know, I feel so happy
for them. And grateful my family too, like we can
like family, My family feel like there is my family.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
I feel like they're my family.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
And thank you forming the program to make that through
come out. You know, I know it's so many people
like me, innocent people. They know how the opportunity that
I have is Bray Mahat.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Don't forget to give us a fantastic review wherever you
get your podcasts. It really helps. And I'm a proud
donor to the Innocence Project and I really hope you'll
join me in supporting this very important cause and helping
to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocence Project dot
org to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd
like to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis.
(30:25):
The music in the show is by three time OSCAR
nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on
Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast.
Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flahm is a production of Lava
for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one
In the early nineties, the crack epidemic was in full swing,
and violence between rival gangs, the Red Top Crew and
the Yellow Top Crew, among others, gripped Harlem and other
parts of the city. On June tenth, nineteen ninety three,
a slender, light skinned man in his forties with a
gray ponytail rolled up to a building on West one
hundred and thirty fifth Street and open fire, wounding fifteen
(00:24):
year old Henry Gomez and killing eighteen year old Manny Kintero.
The case went cold for two years. Then two members
of Yellowtop joined forces with a corrupt detective and officer
team to bring a close to this case in exchange
for leniency in their own cases. Officer aj Molino had
been involved in dealing at some point himself. The detective
(00:47):
was Mark Tebbins, the same one responsible for Danny Ringcon's
wrongful conviction in the bungling of another Red Top.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Cruse shooting in the Bronx.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
These members of Yellowtop made up a story that Pablo
fort and As had been hired by Redtop to carry
out the June tenth shooting. Then Tevins and Malino used
misleading identification tactics to trick or coerce several teenage eyewitnesses
to build what they knew was a farcical case. The
prosecution followed suit to turn Pablo, a stocky, darker skin
(01:18):
twenty two year old with short black hair, into this slender,
forty something light skin shooter with a gray ponytail. Pablo
spent almost twenty five years behind bars, and it took
nearly a decade and a half of pro bono work
from legal giant Paul Weiss to win his freedom. This
is Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. Welcome back to Wrongful
(01:54):
Conviction with Jason Flamm. That's me. I'm your host, and
today I want to introduce first the tourney who spent
thousands of hours pro bono on this case. So Dave Brown,
thanks for being here on the show.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Today, Thanks for having me Jason, and.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
With us, of course is the person who endured this
night mare that you're about to hear about and live
to tell the story. So now it's my great privilege
to introduce you to Pablo Fernandez Babo. Thank you for
being here with us today.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
And this story goes back to the early nineties. Pablo,
you came from the Dominican Republic, right, And you ended
up as a teenager in Upper Manhattan at the height
of the crack epidemic. What was it like growing up
in that crazy time that we've heard so much about.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
It was way deeferent to day crying.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
Every day you walking in this three, you see the
house in the botto of the crack the floor.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
You see a lot of cracking people walking in this
three like a son.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Be Gunshots could be heard regularly around the clock, not
just at nighttime in those days. And you had a
police force that out of control as well. And Dave
take us back to the original crime and how this
turned into this terribly flawed case and ultimately wonwful conviction.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
The crime in question took place on June tenth, nineteen
ninety three.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
It was a.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Drive by shooting where a car drives down one hundred
and thirty fifth Street, stops. The gunman gets out for
just a few seconds from the passenger side, fires several shots,
kills Manny Kintaro, wounds Henry Gomez, jumps back in the car,
and the car drives away. A number of eye witnesses
saw that shooting. They called in to nine one one
(03:37):
with descriptions. Some of them were interviewed by the police
either that evening or in the days that followed, and
they all described the shooter as having light skin, in
his thirties or forties, tall, thin build, gray or salt
and pepper hair pulled back in a pony tail. And
Pablo looked nothing like that description. In nineteen ninety three,
he was twenty years old, he had short, dark hair,
(03:59):
stock built, he had never worn his hair long, much
less in a ponytail. And the case went cold, we believed,
because the police failed to follow up on leads. They
sent officers who didn't speak Spanish to conduct interviews in
the neighborhood around where the shooting took place, and they
just came back and reported, well, we couldn't communicate with
(04:19):
some of the witnesses because they spoke Spanish. Wow, and
just we think there was no serious effort to really
solve this clime.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
So the case goes cold.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Approximately two years later, NYPD officers engaged in a really
brazen and corrupt scheme to manufacture evidence against Pablo, faced
with the facts that he bore no resemblance to the
shooter and there was never any physical or forensics or
(04:48):
ballistic evidence that connected him to the crime, and there
was absolutely no motive for him to committed the crime.
But let me start with the police officers who were
the primary.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Architects of this place to falsely.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Incriminate Pablo, NYPD Officer Albert Molino. He went by aj
who had ties to the drug trade himself from before
he went to the police academy, and also Detective Mark Tevians.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Our audience might remember Mark Tebans from another case that
we covered recently, Danny Rincolone case, and of course all
the corrupt tactics that he used to make that preposterous
case stick as well.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
The corrupt and unconstitutional tactics that they used were not
unique to them. I mean, these were commonplaces n MIPD,
homicide and serious felony investigations during the early mid nineteen nineties,
and the way they constructed this false case was based
on Perger testimony.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
At the center of this corrupt investigation were two members
of the Yellow Top Crew, who were rivals of the
Red Top Crew. Now, in those days, of course, the
crews were named after the colored caps of the crack
files that they sold. Those Yellow Tops had two motives
to give up seemingly useful but false information to the police.
(06:08):
One was to help their own charges and the other
was to try to inflict damage on their arrivals, the
Red Top Crew, and these two individuals that worked with
Melino and Tabins were Raymond Dilly Rivera and the leader
of the Yellow Top Crew, whose name was Martin Chango Mehias.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Now Mahias was known in the streets to be a crazy,
violent drug dealer, and he was arrested in June of
nineteen ninety four charged with three counts of murder, one
kind of attempted murder, and multiple drug conspiracy charges, and
he was facing potential life in prison, so he decided
that he would cooperate with the Manhattan Die's office and
(06:51):
testify against other people to get a lighter sentence. He
put away dozens of people who worked for him, and
around that time Rivera, who was one of the chief
lieutenants in the Yellow Top Crew, came into the Benhatan
Die's office and he confessed that he had committed more
than five hundred felonies, including assaults, robberies, and attempted murder.
He was never charged for any of those crimes. So
(07:14):
somehow Melino and Teppans urged these two cooperators, Mihias and Rivera,
to say that they knew Pablo had been hired to
do this shooting for the leader of the Red Top crew.
They said that they saw Pablo being paid money to
do the shooting, about twenty five hundred dollars, and one
of them said that after the shooting he saw Pablo
(07:36):
come back and meet with the person who had hired
him to do the shooting and take out a shell
casing and say this is the bullet that killed Kintaro.
They said that they knew that Pablo wore disguise like
a wig, or he painted his hair.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And of course we would have also had to believe
that he had a makeup artist on hand who could
have changed his skin color. But you can't be stocky
and pretend you're skinny. That doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
None of this was true.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
And then early nineteen ninety five, detective Tevins and Officer
Milino found two eyewitnesses who had seen the shooting. Now,
when these kids saw the shooting, they were approximately thirteen
years old, and both of them were cousins of Manniquintaro.
One of them his name was Hiccliffe Rosario and the
other's name was George Rosario, and both of them had
(08:23):
reported seeing a light skinned shooter, you know, long gray hair,
thirties or forties do the killing. But they were pressured
by Melino and Tebbns to falsely identify Pablo as the shooter,
in part because the police just kept pointing to pictures
of Pablo over and over and over saying this is
(08:43):
a shooter. The police officers lied to Hicckcliffe and George
Rosario and said, you know, even though he may not
have been the shooter, he had something to do with
the crime, so.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
You should say that he did it.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
And if you look at the picture from Pablo's lineup,
they're six men and five of them are where white
T shirts. And Pablo was put in completely different clothes
to make it easier for the witnesses to falsely incriminate him.
I think this is something they had done many times before.
You would think that it would be incredibly difficult to
frame an innocent person for murder. It almost seemed effortless
(09:18):
for these corrupt police officers.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
And Paba, what was it like going through this for you?
Did you understand what was going on.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
And the beginning, though I thought I learned a little
about little, it was real for me.
Speaker 5 (09:31):
I just have my song, my first baby, to change
that life, that quiet like that that in one one second,
it's real hard.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
They have me in the Rackets Island, you know by
that dying Rackets Island was.
Speaker 5 (09:46):
The acquisition that I have something that I know that
I'm not doing man my song.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Every time I see my soul in the cool it
was It's.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
It's impossible, I think for anyone who hasn't been through
it to imagine what you went through. I mean, you're
twenty years old, you're still a kid. Now you're thrust
into a very adult situation that you didn't cause and
you didn't create. And I want to just highlight one
of the things on the Innesis project has led to charge,
among other organizations, to make videotaping of interrogations mandatory, but
(10:22):
also the photo arrays, lineup procedures, all of that, anything
involving eye witnesses should also be videotaped. That's the only
way we can clamp down on these type of practices.
And they're not always as nefarious as this one was, right,
but if they're influencing the witness in any way. The
jury must know about that. And that brings us to
(10:43):
the trial, which was January nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
And let me start just a few weeks before the
trial begins. Actually, because it appears that Melino and Teppans
they knew approaching the trial as was a weak case.
They had two cooperators obviously had motives to lie and
fabricate evidence, and then you had these two teenagers who
(11:06):
have been pressured to lie, and so it looks like
they went out to try to bolster this case. And
they found two more eyewitnesses and one of them, his
name was Hayes's Canela. Canela recants in the mid two thousands, actually.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
As do the Rosarios.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
But Canela, when he came forward, he said that he
had been pressured by the police officers and they showed
him a picture of Pablo, not even a photo array,
just a single photographic Pablo, saying this is the person
who did the crime. And then they told him you
don't have to testify in court about the fact that
you saw this photo. So this witness is found two
(11:42):
weeks before the trial, right, it's now two and a
half years since he saw the murder, and he testifies
that he still recognizes Pablo, even though you know Pablo
was supposedly wearing a disguise at the time, and he
says he's never seen any pictures of Pablo up until then,
although of course, just two weeks before trial started he
indeed was some pictures of Pablo, but that's all covered up.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
It's so bad because you can do nothing. You can
say nothing. It's like it's somebody punching you and you
can do nothing. Everything was lying.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
So Pablo, when the jury came back, what was that
moment like.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
When you told me that I'm guilty? Oh man, I
thought I want to die.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
I feel my bie, like like I hold in one
thousand pounds my back and look you back to see
my family. All my family was crying. I was crying.
I was crying. I can't hold it. When you know
that you hemasy and they find you guilty or something
that you want to confront twenty five years, it's crazy.
(12:42):
I lost my family, love my song, I love everybody.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
This episode is underwritten by the AIG Pro Bono program.
AIG is a leading global insurance company, and for over
a decade, the AIG pro bono program has provided thousands
of hours of free legal services and other support to
nonprofit organizations and individuals most in need. More recently, the
program added criminal and social justice reform as a key
(13:18):
pillar of its mission.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
The case against Pablo really began to fall apart just
a few days after the trial when the DA's office
came to Pablo's trial council and said, we've had to
arrest Officer aj Malino because we discovered that he was
under investigation by the New York State Troopers for dealing
large amounts of cocaine to.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Undercover cops a few years prior, right.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Before he went into the police academy, and for some
reason that investigation stalled, but it was reopened during the trial.
Alino is arrested right after the trial, but the DA's
office never follows up to prosecute him, and after about
five years the case is dismissed for failure to prosecute. Now,
(14:07):
it's my theory that somebody who's dealing large amounts of
drugs and it goes into the police academy does not
stop after they've become a police officer, and we'll see
what comes to bite in Pablo's civil case. But I
think this was likely a corrupt officer through and through again.
We know during this time there were other officers in
(14:28):
UPTAH Manhattan who were dealing drugs themselves, providing protection to
drug dealers, robbing drug dealers, and signed the drugs themselves.
And you know, Melino certainly seems to fit that pattern.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yeah, and one would think that that would cause an
immediate reopening of the case or retrial or something. But
of course we know that it took the most twenty
five years for this to be resolved, and thousands of
hours of pro bono legal work from you and your
team at Paul Weiss. You know, it's one of the
things that gives me hope, just the fact that there
are people like you and firms like Paul Weiss and
(15:01):
so many others that provide almost limitless resources of human
talent to help someone like Pablo get out of what
is almost impossible.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Morassed, Dave, you.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Didn't get involved to two thousand and five, but talk
to us about this crazy appellate process.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
The next major event occurs in two thousand and two.
Hicclab and George Rosaria both recanted their trial testimony. And
they met with a lawyer who was representing Pablo at
the time, and they provided sworn testimony stating that Malino
and others had pressured them to falsely identify Pablo as
the shooter. That Hicclo stated that he was positive that
Pablo had not shot Caintaro. George said that he never
(15:43):
would have identified Pablo as the shooter if he had
not been told by the police that Pablo was involved,
and that he had been pressured to identify Pablo after
being shown.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Pablo's picture again.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
The appellate courts did not consider this evidence enough.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
To free Publo.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
The next year, in two thousand and three, Henry Gomez
so the second victim of the shooting. He provided sworn
testimony that Pablo was not the man who shot him
and didn't look like the shooter. That is not enough either. Now,
in two thousand and five, my law firm got involved.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Paul Wise, what are the top law firms not in
the city in the world, comes in, you know, to
the rescue. How did his case land on your radar?
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Now we do a lot of pro bono work at
Paul Weis, including criminal defense work, criminal justice reform work.
But as your question indicated, you know why, of all
of the thousands and thousands of criminal defendants in the
New York State system, how do we get involved in
Paplo's case.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Well, there was a Yale.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Law student named Andrew Goldstein who, because of a program
at Yale Law School, became aware of this case. And
then he came to Paul Weise for our summer associate program,
which lasts about eight.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
To ten weeks.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
And when he came in, he said, can I get
some support from Paul Whise to help me on Pablo's case?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
And we said sure.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
We thought this was going to be something that we
helped Andrew Goldstein with for a summer. Well, that summer
lasted fourteen years. Andrew ended up coming to the firm
as an associate where he worked on the case, and
then he left us after about four or five years,
and he became a prosecutor in the US Attorney's Office
(17:28):
in the Southern District, and he went on to work
on Bob Moller's team a few years ago and is
now back in private practice and just so overjoyed that
the case that he brought in as a law student
ended with such a great result, even though it took
to such a long time for justice to be delivered.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
What did it mean to you when Dave and his
team first got involved with your case and to have
their support, And how did that feel?
Speaker 5 (17:58):
The lawyer that I have so d even the thing came,
they told me, listen, you look, you got the best
loyal United States and maybe in the war you got
one of the best loyal And I was so happy,
my family too, because you know, I woant to be
in the best hang.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
That I can be. That's that's the only way I
came home.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
And I want to get to that, you know, the
good part, your freedom. So let's go right back to
that post conviction history. In two thousand and five, Paul
Weisse took the case, and then there was another recantation.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
In twenty ten, ten Haines's Canela recants, and again that
motion is denied. One of the reasons that the New
York State judge said that this witness was not to
be believed is because he said, well, he was trying
too hard to be convincing when he recanted, which is
(18:54):
just such a ridiculous and bizarre thing to say. And
with lost in all the state court appeals, in the
Federal District Court, and now we're going up to the
Federal Appeals Court, and we knew that if we lost,
it was over. We would have only had the ability
to appeal to the Supreme Court, and there was almost
(19:15):
a zero chance that they would ever have taken this case.
So this was really our last stop. And this is
really a case that shows you the value of perseverance.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Well, it certainly does, because in February of twenty nineteen,
the US Court of Appeals for the Second District finally
overturned the conviction, ruling that it was unconstitutional and citing
the state court's denial as a quote unquote unreasonable determination
on the grounds that Canela was and again I'm quoting here,
trying too hard to be convincing end quote. So now
(19:51):
the conviction is overturned, but the indictment still stands because
there's no statute of limitations on murder, and the DA
comes in you with the deal right to go free
immediately if you plead guilty to manslaughter. But yet on
the other hand, they could still retry you. You had
twenty five to life, so parole was just around the corner.
(20:13):
But there's no guarantee you there either, because who knows,
Like if you wouldn't have admitted guilt, if you had
refused the deal, you might still be sitting in prison today.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
I understand, but it's never passed from my mind to
take any deal with him. From the beginning, I will
fire for my freedom. So after all this, jed walking
in MKA and try to be free to prove my
ino say, I'm not going to take nothing for these
people nothing.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
You know.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
At first, we have the defense team thought there's no
way the DA's office is going to retry this case.
The hicclerf Rosario has recanted, George Rosario has recanted, Jesu's
Canella has recanted. We learned that Rivera was a quadriplegic
and gravely ill, not even able to speak, and then
Mihias was a drug dealer who had served a significant
(21:17):
amount of time in prison. And there's absolutely no case left.
And so during the spring of twenty nineteen, the DA's
office was making one disclosure after another to us that
showed that the case was even worse than we had known.
But we contacted Martin Maheis and he made some incredible
(21:40):
exclosures to us. He told our investigator, you know, when
I was cooperating with the police, I was supposed to
go back to the Rikers Island after I testified, or
after I met.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
With the DIA's office.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
But Melino and Tevins would take me all around the city.
We would go to Dallas barbecue, we would get drunk.
They would take me to visit girlfriends, take me shopping.
I was drinking a lot at the time. I was
drunk when I testified. I viewed Tevins as a friend,
(22:14):
basically indicating that he would have done anything to please
the police. He also said the police had given him
marijuana to sell in prison. I mean, this was just
amazing to us. And we got similar disclosures from the
Manhattan Die's office about Mihias in July of twenty nineteen.
(22:35):
Information to show that Mihias said, I'm not going to
testify for you again. The police told me to lie
in the trial in nineteen ninety six. I'm not going
to testify again. So then we learned just some shocking
information about Raymond Rivera. Raymond Rivera said that he saw
Pablo two days before the murder and that he witnessed
(22:59):
Pop being hired to shoot Canterero. Now, at this time,
according to what the DA's office disclosed to US, Rivera
could not have been in Upper Manhattan witnessing Pablo or
anybody else being paid to do this murder because during
this time, Rivera was actually incarcerated in state prison more
(23:20):
than three hundred miles away from New York City, and
that meant that his testimony was just outright pergury. He
could not have been in New York he could now
have been in Manhattan. They were prison records, new York
state records that showed that he was incarcerated at the time,
And when these disclosures came out, the DA's office decided
(23:42):
to stop fighting the case, and Pablo was first released
on bail in August of twenty nineteen, and then in
September of twenty nineteen, the DA's office asked the trial
court to dismiss the case against Pablo. In September twenty nineteen,
two days before his birthday, Pablo walked out of Manhattan
(24:05):
Criminal Court. Finally a freeman.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
The day that you've been waiting for for twenty five
years has finally come. You're innocent, Your lawyers know you're innocent.
The whole time, your family, You're innocent the whole time.
Now everyone knows, the court has said it. What was
that moment like when you were finally declared actually innocent
and set free?
Speaker 5 (24:27):
Wow, it was amazing day. It was It was my
day every day. I was thinking in that day, and
I know that one day going to come.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
That was the date.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
I was so happy that the through came out.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
And that I was rep free.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
But in the same way, I feel a little bad.
My fatherly passed away when I was in jail twenty fourteen.
And one other thing that I want to is to
see my family or in my father, they see my freedom,
they see me out or my father know how the
opportunity to see me. He knows that I'm from the beginning,
(25:08):
so I can show him, you know, my freedom. I
feel happy that I'm free, pro in the same in
the same time, I feel little.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
I don't know how to say, but I'm.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
Feeling my father in my in my hall, that I
can see him, that I can hold him, you know,
and show him I'm here with you again.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
The good news is your home now You're never going back.
And Pablo, I have to ask how I mean people
out here in the free world, trying to find love,
going everywhere, looking online, on here, on there, going out,
and you found love from behind the walls of prison.
(25:50):
I mean, you're a charming guy. But still, that's amazing.
Speaker 5 (25:54):
Can you explain we know each other from outside before
I get out that when I get told in jail
a friend of mine, he was my wife Tania best friend. Broadly,
we see that we from the same Abia, and we
started talking about people. And when I'm mentioning Manitania, so
he said, listen, my sister is Tanya's friend. So the
(26:18):
same day he called so his sister that I was here,
and next day I got a visit Fontania. Since the
that day we're together. That happened two thousand and three. See,
I missed one busy, she allways come to see me.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, and you two got married. She I mean, it's amazing. Really,
she's stuck by you the whole way. It's beautiful and
it's just gotta feel amazing. And I know I speak
for so many others, all of us here at Ronful
Conviction and everyone in your in your very wide circle.
Now when I say that we wish you to all
(26:55):
the best, that life has to offer any other news.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
Now I got a new soul, now come out.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Ah, great stuff. Congratulations to you both. So I mean,
there's really nowhere left to go after that. So let's
just end on a high note here and go straight
to closing arguments, which is of course a segment on
the show, my favorite segment when I thank both of you,
each of you for being here, and then I shut
my microphone off, just kick back and listen as I
(27:27):
hear whatever you want to say, whatever you want to
talk about it. Let's start with David first and leave
you Pablo for last.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Thanks Jason. I just want to say that it was
such an honor and a privilege to represent Pablo, to
fight for him to meet his family, his mother, his sisters,
other members of his family, his wife Tanya, who is
just such a lovely, impressive woman. I'm just so happy
(27:57):
for Pablo and Tanya that even though Pop in twenty
four years in prison and fourteen fifteen years of their marriage,
Pablo was incarcerated, now that they get a chance to
be together and to have a child together, and they
have two other children and this will be a third,
and this is just really wonderful as I said before,
(28:18):
it's just so rewarding to.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Do this type of work.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
I would urge every lawyer I know to try to
get involved in.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Criminal justice reform work.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
It doesn't have to be an innocent case, but there's
so much work that needs to be done around criminal
justice reform, and especially if you are at a large
firm like Ballwise, there's so many resources that you can
bring to bear, and there's so many wrongs that need
to be righted, especially in the New York.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Criminal justice system.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
There have been a lot of cases that NYPD has
been involved in. It had terrible, unjust tragic results, and
these cases can also be a lot of fun. It
is fun to be on the right side of his
tree and on the right side of justice, and it's
energizing in the morning to get up and know that
you're fighting for an anescent person.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
I want to say thank you.
Speaker 5 (29:12):
I feel so grateful for Wise, everybody that's working in
the case.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
That's the only reason they know I'm innocying. They do
the best.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
Yes, they made my dream through, they made my freedom
or my family happy. Now I enjoyed my song because
then and everything, because you know, I feel so happy
for them. And grateful my family too, like we can
like family, My family feel like there is my family.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
I feel like they're my family.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
And thank you forming the program to make that through
come out. You know, I know it's so many people
like me, innocent people. They know how the opportunity that
I have is Bray Mahat.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Don't forget to give us a fantastic review wherever you
get your podcasts. It really helps. And I'm a proud
donor to the Innocence Project and I really hope you'll
join me in supporting this very important cause and helping
to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocence Project dot
org to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd
like to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis.
(30:25):
The music in the show is by three time OSCAR
nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on
Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast.
Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flahm is a production of Lava
for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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