July 2, 2020 • 38 mins
German investigators say a man already in custody is responsible for the death of 3-year-old Maddie McCann. Reports are that Maddie's parents have been sent a letter say they have credible information that their daughter is dead. The family says they have not received a letter. So what's the truth? Is Maddie McCann still alive after 13 years?
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Jason Oshins, New York Defense Attorney
- Dr Daniel Bober - Forensic Psychiatrist, follow on Instagram at drdanielbober
- Cloyd Steiger - 36 years Seattle Police Department, 22 years Homicide detective, Author "Seattle's Forgotten Serial Killer-Gary Gene Grant" www.cloydsteiger.com
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author,"Blood Beneath My Feet"
- Dave Mack - Crime Online Investigative Reporter
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Will it never end for the family of three year
old Mattie McCann, the beautiful little girl who was snatched
from her own bed while on vacation with her parents.
Can you imagine being away from on vacation, away from
your home and your familiar surroundings, lulled into a false
(00:31):
sense of complacency, and your baby goes missing. You'll hardly
even know where you are, where to look, who to call,
what to do. That is exactly what happened to the
parents of three year old Mattie, and to this day
no answers. But is there finally a break in the case?
(01:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace? Is there finally a break
in the case? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation
at serious XM one eleven. First of all, take a
(01:21):
listen to our friends at Sky News. A three year
old British girl has gone missing in the our garve
in Portugal. Course we can speak out to Dan Mason,
who's a journalist who works in that area. Dan, thanks
for joining us on Sky New Sunrise this morning. What
are the details that you've gleaned so far? Hello? Yeah, all,
I basically know is that the child was obviously thaying
(01:41):
a Mark Warner establishment and was reported missing around him
last night. She's three years old, assister the name of
Madeline or Maddie fair Hair, and the most of the
people in the area. We're through to about four o'clock
in the morning yesterday and obviously through hedges and down
(02:06):
the Duc to Avail and I've just been down this
morning to the club again to see if for anymore
news in the situation is basically the same as the
days pass. The situation stays the same. There's been a
lot of finger pointing. Everybody says that's somebody else's fault.
But bottom line, I believe investigators there at the holiday
(02:30):
resort dropped the ball. But is there a break in
the case. Finally, you know, her parents must be worn
down to a nub, just raw after all this time
looking for their little girl. Mattie McCann joining me an
all star panel to break it down and put it
back together again, or now attorneys joining me out of
(02:51):
New York. This morning, Jay said Oceans Forensic Psychiatrists. You
can find him on insta at doctor Daniel bober Chloye
Tiger thirty six your Seattle PD twenty two of that
homicide and author of Seattle's Forgotten serial Killer, Gary gene Grant.
He's at Chloyd Steger dot com. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,
(03:12):
Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
but straight out to Dave Mack Crime online dot Com
investigative reporter Dave Mack. Who is this German dude that
is now suspect number one? Who is he? Let's just
start with that. His name is Christian Bruckner. He's forty
(03:34):
three years old, as you mentioned, from Germany, who traveled
back and forth between Germany, Portugal and Italy. Pause pause,
Just tell me one thing. Is he connected in any
way to a statward child pornography? Yes, ma'am, he is.
It's really all I need to know right there? Do
I need to know anything else? Let me guess white
(03:54):
male loner listen to somebody's attic apartment something like that.
Am I even close to Dave matt Am? I just
a little close, bueh. And all this time this perv
has been right under the nose of police, the noses
(04:16):
of police. To tell me some more about this guy.
Just we know he's connected for sure to child porn.
Does he have Dave matt crime online dot com? Does
he have a criminal history. He's got a long criminal
history that includes robbery's burglaries, and he has been convicted
of sexual abuse of a child way back in nineteen
(04:38):
ninety four. Personal right, right? You know, Dave matt you
know how I feel about you. You know, I respect you,
care about you. You're on our team. But why in
the hey do you bury the lead? The guy has
child porn and he's got an abuse on a child
conviction headline. What else do we know about him? Dave Matt? Well,
(05:01):
you're correct, And the reason I pointed out the robbery's
burglaries and tourist thing is because that's how he slipped
under in the cracks in this investigation beginning with the
Portugal authority. You know you just said something about tourist.
What about tourist? What does that fit into his criminal history? Nancy?
He was actually known to burglarize the apartments and hotel
(05:25):
rooms of tourists in this particular place in Portugal where
Mattie McCann went missing. Now I get your reasoning, Dave,
mac hold on, Jackie's waving a note at me that
says our ape Dave mac Why is she waving that
at me? Because he planned the rate of a seventy
(05:49):
two year old American woman living in Portugal in two
thousand and five. He was It's just the most disgusting thing.
But it was right near the very place where Maddie
McCanne went missing. This is two years she Jackie's telling
me two rapes. You've got the seventy two year old woman.
Did he or did he not rape the seventy two
(06:11):
year old woman? Yes, he raped the seventy two year
old farms, so he didn't just plant as you just said,
he raped her. Is there another rape in his criminal history?
In his first conviction of sexual assault rate in nineteen
ninety four? Is that on the child boy or girl boy?
And there's another tourist, I mean, Joe's got Morgan, Cloyd Steiger,
(06:32):
doctor Daniel Bober, Jason Oceans. This guy should have been
locked up under the jail, but all the signs are
there's Cloyd Steiger twenty two years in homicide. Here's a
guy that has been breaking in to tourists hotel rooms.
Jackie did I ever tell you that happened to me?
(06:54):
One time? David and I went to Florida and we
had been on the beach. He went somewhere and I
was in a shower in the hotel room. I thought
I heard a door, but then I listened. I didn't
hear anything. When I got out of the shower, my pocketbook,
everything in my pocketbook was gone. And people have an
(07:18):
m O an m O. Would you agree with that?
Cloyd Steiger? This guy had an MO. He raped a
seventy two year old woman in that tourist area, and
as MO modus operendi. Method of operation was that he
would break into hotel rooms while tourists were out of
their hotel room. And that night Cloyd Steiger Mattie mckenn's parents,
(07:43):
we're having dinner about I think it was Dave McK
if anybody knows, correct me on the distance, about a
hundred yards away at an outdoor table, and they would
go back and check on the children asleep in the
rooms every twenty minutes. So they were out of their room.
Who's that, Dave? Is that you? They were about one
(08:03):
hundred and eighty feet away, and as you said, they
all took terms checking on the kid one hundred and
eighty feet away. That's much closer. Okay, so Chloy Steiger,
m that's what this guy is known for, plus a
pedophilic rate on a child. He's the perfect candidate. Yeah,
he is. You know, My understanding is they didn't know
he was a sex offender, which is no excuse because
(08:25):
anybody that limits themselves to known sex offenders and these
types of things shouldn't be doing this job because it's
not always somebody who has a previous conviction. So yeah,
they completely ignored this guy. I have no idea why.
I read something where the lead investigator was really zeroed
in on a parents. And that's what a bad investiators
when he decides what the answer is and only looks
(08:47):
for evidence to support his thesis instead of just being
open to where the evidence takes him. Well, you know what,
I don't even understand at all how you don't look
for people that have committed sex crime or burglaries crime
(09:14):
stories with Nancy Grace, guys, we are talking about a
major break in the case of beautiful three year old
Mattie McCann, who is kidnapped from her parents hotel room
while they're on vacation. She was asleep. Someone came into
the hotel room and took Mattie, leaving her siblings undisturbed. Guys,
(09:36):
I want you to take a listen to our friends
at Inside Edition. A German convict is now a suspect
in the two thousand and seven disappearance of Madeline McCann,
the British child who went missing from a resort in
Portugal when she was just three years old. Forty three
year old Christian Bruckner is currently incarcerated in his home
(09:57):
country on unrelated crimes. BBC reports authorities have been investigating
him since twenty seventeen after a friend of his came
forward to report he made disturbing comments about McCann while
in a bar watching coverage of the tenth anniversary of
her disappearance. German police reportedly said Bruckner lived in the
(10:19):
region of Portugal where Madeline was last seen. The child
disappeared from the hotel her family was staying in during
the vacation. Disturbing comments he made in a bar watching
the Mattie McCann coverage. When Mattie first goes get missing
back to you, Dave Mack joining me from crime online
(10:39):
dot Com. I understand that this freak and I'm saying
that because he's connected to child pornography and apparently he
moved to this area after serving part of a two
year sentence for molesting a six year old girl in Wurzburg.
At the time they went missing, he was living in
(11:02):
an area about a ten minute drive away. So the
child molestations are piling up. He lives ten minutes away
and he burglarizes hotel rooms. I'm very stunned the cops
didn't see him, and I understand Dave mac that Brittner
had been a person of interest at the jet Go
(11:23):
but then he was eliminated. Why well, and I need
to correct something earlier. I said that his first conviction
was a nine year old boy. It was a girl, Nancy,
and I apologize onto this still a child go ahead
him with this. He was eliminated as a suspect because
they were specifically looking for sexual preditors for those convicted
(11:44):
of sexual harassment, abuse and rate. He at that time,
Portugal only had him listed as a foreign thief as
a robber. They didn't have Christian Brutner on their list
as a sexual preditor, even though why they just didn't
and you know goes back we said, the Portugal authorities
dropped the ball from the beginning. They did bad part
(12:07):
is they passed bad information along to others so that
they he was eliminated as a suspect in the early
days of this investigation when he should have been the
primary suspect. You know, no offense to all our friends overseas,
but to you, Jessice Scott Morgan, Professor, forensic teath investigator.
Have you ever seen Pink Panther the movie, not the
(12:30):
actual Panther or the comic Panther that's pink. Yeah. Do
you know how? Yeah, you know how the police are
portrayed as bumbling idgets in these in particularly that country.
But when you hear stories like this, they did not
(12:54):
have him on their list of sex offenders. Look, I mean,
I know cops are overloaded. I get it. I've been
there as a prosecutor, but how could you not have
this guy on your list? He was just convicted of
raping a little girl. Yeah, it's tragic because this could
(13:15):
have been interdicted far in advance, you know, before it
every good have Tragic's the right word because tragic to me,
seems like it was an tragic incident or tragic accident.
This is no accident. This is flied out incompetence for
them not to have a child sex predator on their list. Yeah,
and therefore he was eliminating you're talking about. One of
(13:37):
the things that complicates this is you have the sovereignty
of these individual nations. It's not like going from you know, Alabama, Georgia,
from New York to you know, I know, Vermont, New
Hampshire or whatever. It's a it's a major pain. And
you know, they do have what's referred to as Interpole,
but I've worked with Interpole before Nancy on missing persons cases,
(13:58):
and it is just kind of this lucy goosey, kind
of soft in the middle kind of things clearinghouse without
any real Yeah, they don't, they don't. They they don't
have And you know, when we begin to think now
about things like databases and all this thing, and you know,
moving forward, you know, it's become more solid relative to
(14:19):
things like DNA databases. The problem with someone like this,
for uh, you know, they're from a behavior standpoint, is
the fact that they will collect things. And I think
that this guy, He's in multiple locations. If you had
that information from that, from those bits of evidence like DNA,
(14:42):
you may have been able to kind of connect the
dots more effectively, if you had a database that you
could go to that Interpol would set up. Now they
might have that now, but back during this period of
time they didn't, and it's it turned out to be
a total dumpster fire. And here's the problem. Not only
are we talking about Maddie Nancy, this guy is moving
(15:03):
between all of these different countries. How many other children
are there well keeping up with it. Jason Ocean is
joining me, renowned defense attorney and the Tri State area
joining me today from New York, Jason Oceans. The reality
is he is connected to many different young children, and
they all, whether they're boys or girls, look very similar physically,
(15:27):
and they all are similar in many ways to Mattie
McCann's appearance. Jason. Even here in the States where we
have aphists, where we have you've got a fingerprint data bay,
you've got DNA data bank, you've got a gun data bank,
they don't have all that in Portugal and the surrounding areas.
(15:49):
But we know this, we know is mo we know
where he travels. But even so, how is it that
he's slipped between juris dictional limits. How'd that happen? Initially
bad policing right, not taking the time to really circle
(16:10):
around beyond the parents, without the reason to think that
they would just come here to Portugal to dispose of
their three year old daughter. Nothing in the background that
I saw then, nor now after all these years, indicated
that they were responsible. It reminded me of the Eton
Pats case in New York where six year old went missing,
(16:30):
and again it turned right away to the parents, and
yet it was right under the noses at the corner bodega.
So sometimes drawing the line in the inference right away
precludes you from thinking outside that circle, or even perhaps
did he have an assistant letting him know, you know,
where these hotel rooms were unguarded, or you know, better
(16:54):
targets to go. So I just think from the onset
this investigation, she was doomed. You know, you kind of
sound like you're blaming police, and I agree that they
were inept and really screwed up the case. But the
police are not the ones that took Mattie out of
her room and raped her and killed her. And at
(17:15):
this juncture, we've been told several different things. We've been
told the police have told Maddie McCann's parents in a
letter which I think is kind of cold, that she's dead.
The parents are saying, we have received no such letter
to doctor Daniel Bober forensic psychiatrists. You can find them
(17:36):
on instat a doctor Daniel Bober. How hard is this
for the parents, what they've been through? Oh, you know, Nancy,
it's every parent's worst nightmare. It's absolutely devastating. And there's
really nothing that you're gonna say or do that's gonna
make that pain go away. And it's going to be
a pain that's gonna last for life. Absolutely crime stories
(18:09):
with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about a beautiful
little three year old girl who goes on vacation with
her parents. I remember it like it was yesterday, and
they put her down to sleep with their brothers and
sisters or siblings. She's never seen alive again. Now a
(18:31):
lot of people have blamed the parents, and yes, they
were out of the hotel room having dinner. Am I
happy about that? No? But they are not responsible for
her kidnap. They're not involved for years, they endured suggestions
(18:52):
that they were they've never given up trying to find
Mattie McCann, their little girl. Take a listen to our
friends at CBC. We know that he's a forty three
year old German Man. He is white. Now because of
Germans privacy laws, we don't know his identity, but what
police have said is that he has a history of
(19:12):
sexual violence, including against children, and that he's actually in
prison right now convicted of a sex crime. We also
know that he was living in the area where Madeline
disappeared at the time of our disappearance, and you can met.
Police have actually released some photos of vehicles that he
had driven at that time thirteen years ago. So again
(19:33):
we don't know his identity of police. I've simply said
that he has a history of not just sexual violence actually,
but of break ins of burglaries. He was known to
go going to people's homes and steal their things and
of course of violence. So this is a huge, huge breakthrough.
We know his name now, it's Christian Bruckner, with a
long rap sheet including sex abuse on little children, very
(19:59):
similar physic to Maddie McCann, and breaking into the exact
resort into hotel rooms where Maddie McCann was kidnapped. Also
the rape of a seventy two year old woman near
that resort. That's what we know about him. How police
let him slip through their fingers, I do not know.
But right now take a listen to Mark Cranwell. This
(20:23):
is the Maddie McCann investigator. He's white, he's about six
foot in height. He's forty three now. At the time
he was thirty, but he could have looked somewhere between
twenty five and thirty two. We know the identity of
this mail. We nominated him as a suspect for the
(20:43):
inquiry and the investigation team. This is a significant development
we are we've been working on this line of inquiry
for a couple of years. He had access to two vehicles.
What's about the two vehicles. The first one is a
camper van. It's a VWT three Westphalia model. It's an
(21:04):
early eighties model and the color tone it's quite distinctive.
It was quite old and probably described as a bit
beaten up, but it was an white upper body and
a yellow sort of lower body. We know that that
vehicle was in the area certainly the day's leading up
to it and the week afterwards to Jason Oceans attorney
(21:27):
joining us out of New York in New Jersey, Jason,
you and I covered the Danielle Van Damn kidnap, rape
and murder case from California. She was taken by the
neighbor David. I believe it was Westerfield. But long story short,
he kidnapped and held her in a camper van. And
(21:51):
we see over and over and over that a camper
or a van is used in kidnap, rape and murder
of children. That's quite the coincidence, is it not that
he used a camper van at the time she goes missing?
(22:12):
What about it? Jason? Otions remember that case daniel van
dam I do. I do, And it's a spot spot
on on that because that serves as the as part
of the EMO of the sexual assault or rape of
the of the victim. And so again I did not
mean to blame police, per se. I am a fan
(22:36):
of good. Somebody's doing cleanup now, yes, ma'am. But I
would say that a stute prosecutor that you are, that
that develops in those are all the hearts of the peace,
and you immediately looked at that, Jason. I think part
of it is you've got a home on wheels. Because
(22:57):
they don't have to take the child back to their
home or apartment. They don't risk being seen by a
landlady or a neighbor, or a roommate or a wife.
And they have room to move around to assault and
kill the child. And not only that, in a camper
or a van, they can secrete the child to the
(23:19):
back and nobody can see the child. It's not like
the child in the front of the back seat. So
they can hide the child and move around. That's exactly
get away with the child. They don't have to rape
and murder the child at the scene. They've got wheels,
they're mobile. I think that's why campers and vans are
(23:40):
favorites of child molesters. Jason, Oceans, jump and help me
out here. No, you're you are spot on, And that
is exactly the reason. It is a facilitating vehicle. Unlike
a car. It serves all of those purposes. And that's
again and good policing looking through that, you know, matching
(24:04):
good detective work is no no better than right there
at the spot and circling those things. Fancy that's it.
I wasn't solved early on. And uh, I'm going to
circle back to the next vehicle. But we know to
correct me if I'm wrong, Dave Mac, because there's so
many facts coming up fast and furious. New footage has
(24:26):
been captured inside Christian Brutner's layer, where police also discovered
a camper van containing a series of swimming outfits like
swimsuits that they be they believe belonged to young girls.
Is that correct, Dave Mac? Yes, man, they found a
(24:47):
bunch of children's swimwear. I mean, think about it, guys, Uh,
help me out to you. Kloyd Steiger, say a woman
goes and drives her husband's car one day for whatever reason,
and she finds a bunch of little girl swimsuits in
there that have been used. Isn't that a red veil
(25:08):
of alarm? Yeah? Sure is. You know I had a
case very similar with collection underwear like this and years ago,
and that's you know you should have sent off your
alarm a lot and one thing I want to Okay,
I can't understand you. Did you say you had a
case where somebody collected underwear? Yeah? What we suspected it
was a murder involved with a child that the person
(25:28):
died and we never found enough to charge. But I
want to think back to something doctor Bober said about
the parents' reaction, and he's exactly right. There's nothing worse
than a child than to lose a child, although but
there is one thing to have a child that disappears
that nobody knows what happened. I've looked into the dead
eyes of mothers of long term missing and that is
(25:50):
a cool, cool thing path to live through horrible and
it goes. It's gone on and on and on. First
of all, everybody blamed the parents. Did they they kill
their own child? It's their fault, everyone said, because they
were having dinner and left the children alone, even though
they checked on them every twenty minutes. It went on
and on. They were crucified in the media. But I mean,
(26:12):
the reality is so often wrong or right, jess Got Morgan.
When a child goes missing or is dead, very often
it is the parents. So the media was wrong. But
I understand why the media focused on them, do you yeah,
I do you know? And because it many times it
leads back. I think back to Susan Smith, you know,
(26:34):
of course, and you know what she had done. You
begin to and from a policy from yeah top momus,
you began to think about just from an investigative standpoint,
relative to these cases, it's going to be the intimates.
It's going to be those individuals that have the biggest
(26:55):
I don't know how to frame it relative to the
most hatred towards towards a person to want to destroy
the most connectivity for whatever reason, they're around them more,
they've got more opportunity. You know. We were talking and
so what happened to the McCanns was horrible. The family
being blamed the parents, but the reality is a vast
(27:16):
majority of the time the parents are involved. That does
not lessen the pain that was caused to the McCanns. However,
statistics don't matter because that's not what happened in this case.
(27:39):
Time Stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about the
Big break and three year old Mattie McCann's disappearance. Family
on vacation. The mom and dad go to dinner about
one hundred and eighty feet not yards, one hundred and
eighty feet away with some other friends that were there.
They go back. One of them goes back and forth
(28:01):
every twenty minutes to check on the shoulder to make
sure they're okay. On the last check, Mattie's gone. At
first they couldn't believe it. They tore apart the hotel
room apart looking for her. She's gone in the twenty
minutes since they last checked. They have endured so much
hatred and accusations since Mattie went missing. But now a
(28:25):
major break in the case. A guy that should have
been picked up on day one, Christian Bruckner, with a
rap sheet including sex molestation on a child, raping a
seventy two two year old woman in the same area
as the resort where the Mechans were staying, and burglary
breaking into hotel rooms. Now we mentioned the van that
(28:49):
this guy had, Christian Bruckner, he would have been thirty
at the time Maddie went missing, but he had a
second vehicle. Take a listen again to the Mattie McCann
investigators speaking to the Sun News Mark Cranwell, So this
is a Jaguar who's been described as dark in color.
It's an x j R six. He was registered in
(29:11):
ninety three, and we want to know does anybody remember
that vehicle. It's not particularly uncommon, not particularly unique. But
somebody will have remembered a Jaguar car in that area.
Did you see a German male using that car? Can
you remember that the car? Can you remember where he
saw it? Most intriguing is he reregistered the car on
(29:35):
May the fourth, This is a day after Madeline went missing.
He asked a friend to register the car in his
friend's name. We've established that our suspect, the man that
we have identified, used a telephone in that region at
that time. Particularly, that phone was used at seven thirty
(29:55):
two pm and the phone call was finished at eight
o two pm. He made he received a phone call
for thirty minutes, and we know that that phone was
in the area of PDL. Well, that's all well and
good now, but now you're asking people if they remember
a Jaguar how many years ago? Ah? Yeah, there they're
(30:17):
a day later. Dollars short. That's all I can say
about their police. Now take a listen to what we
learned about a forensics search on Christian Brutner's camper. Listen.
This is Skyne's forensic examination of the suspect's campa van
is thought to have found no trace of Madeline's DNA
and none in his Jaguar car, which was also seized.
(30:40):
We hope that some British tourists can help us to
find the murder of Medlin mckenns. Like the Scotland Yard colleagues,
German prosecutors have received hundreds of calls after last week's
appeals for help. Vigandup and do you think the suspect
has committed more crimes, possibly against British people and Irish
(31:02):
and Americans. We think there are more victims of sexual crimes.
The suspect is in jail in Germany. He too is
awaiting developments in the case. Detectives haven't yet questioned him
about Madeline. Now, I'm so burned up about this. All
those time is passing there now asking to ours what
(31:22):
they remember. They still haven't questioned the guy. What is
wrong with them? Yeah? I want to go out to you,
Dave mac We just heard the investigator talking about a
phone call that took place around seven thirty pm. And
what's so significant? He said, in the area. But it
was not just in the area. It was near the
(31:45):
McCann hotel apartment room, wasn't it, Yes, man, it was
right their mere feet away. From where Madeleine mccam was sleeping.
Another thing, Dave mac has me very concerned. There are
reports that a hotel staff member tipped Bruttner off. What
do you know about that? Well, police knew because Bruttner
(32:06):
had already had been robbing this particular resort over time.
As a matter of fact, he was convicted of robbing
that place before and spend time in jail overrid So
when police found out that he had this thirty minute
long phone conversation, they tried to figure out who it
came from. So they ended up running an ad and
putting it out in the public saying who has this number?
And it came back to an employee at the resort.
(32:28):
That's how they tied it together from Bruckner getting a
call from a resort employee essentially tipping him off as
to which apartments were unlocked. So let me understand. You
were telling me that police tracked the phone number that
called Brutner that night that Maddie goes missing. The phone
(32:50):
call was at seven thirty two pm the night she
goes missing. It lasted thirty minutes until eight o two.
The call was made by a tell worker. We now
believe who told Brutner the apartment would be unlocked. Police
release that phone number to the public in order to
(33:11):
identify the person to whom it belonged. Brutner got tips
on unlocked apartments so he could steal from tourists. So
let me understand this to you, doctor Daniel Bober. The
fact that somebody within the hotel is involved should have
(33:35):
made this and open a shut case. That person should
have come forward and stated, I know somebody was robbing
apartments that night Maddie goes missing. Why didn't they? The
good question, Nancy doesn't really make any sense. I mean,
the more you hear about this case, it seems like
there's a roadmap to this guy. So it's baffling. You know,
(33:56):
very often I have said, I don't know if you
agree with this or not. As Scott Morgan that burglars
and peeping tom's are and sex offenders are the three
criminals that have to repeat offend. They can't stop themselves.
There's something about burglar burglars. They get a thrill out
(34:18):
of going in somebody else's place and looking around and
taking things. It's very voyeuristic, as is peeping tom as
is sex offenses. In certain ways. What do you make
of that? Yeah, there's not too many degrees of separation
between the three, and it is secretive. You know, people
get burglary and robbery confused all the time. Burglary is
(34:38):
something where you enter a dwelling and there's no one there.
You don't expect to go in and like force someone
to give you money. You go in and you steal.
You get into intimate spaces where people exist, and you're
going to take jewelry. It's a perfect cover for somebody
that is a sexual predator. Though they can go in
and you know they might steal a few things relative
(35:00):
to valuables to sell them somewhere else. But when you
can get access to god, I hate to say this,
to the dirty laundry for instance, in a home, and
you can live out these fantasies, particularly in people's bedrooms
or bathrooms and all this sort of stuff, it's a
perfect recipe for something horrible to occur. And that's what's happened.
(35:20):
Back to this attendant, this is very scary to me
and very disturbing because he's got other people involved in this.
I doubt, like with most of these people, people think, well,
this is the first time he's done this. That's a
load of crap. No, it's not. I suspect that there
are probably other people that helped him facilitate these so
called burglaries all over Europe, and there's probably a network
(35:43):
of these people that knew that he was into burglary
and they were getting a kickback for it. And so
now you've got dead children that are involved in this
and I hate to say that she's dead, but that's
just my opinion. And there's people whose lives have been destroyed.
So it is very, very disturbing. Guys, we are hearing
that there is a disagreement between the German police and
(36:07):
the British police. Take a listen now to host David
Karts with Mike Neville, former police inspector. Listen, British investigators
are still trading. This is a missing person's case. What
sort of evidence do you think German prosecutors have and
why mightn't they share their alleged proof. Well, it's certainly
(36:32):
not fingerprints or DNA, because they're saying that doesn't exist.
So when they say there is no forensics, do they
mean there's no digital forensics, which could be computers or
for photographic evidence or is it simply a confession as
he told a friend or a police officer. He's done it,
as it's been recorded. But I think one of the
key things in this case is this phrase concrete evidence.
(36:54):
I spoke to my German friend who's a senior detective,
and I think it's been lost in translation. In German
it's sort of been reasonable grown suspects, rather than as
an English would mean the definitely absolute proof. I think
he's been lost in translation. So to you, Dave, mat
German prosecutors claim there's evidence indicating Maddie is dead, but
(37:17):
the Brits disagree. Explain well, bottom line is you said it.
The German officials say they have concrete evidence, but then
they actually updated their comment a few days ago saying, actually,
we don't really have any evidence. We just believe this
is the case. Meanwhile, the British authorities from Scotland ard
Operation Grains, which was put together to look into this case,
(37:40):
are still considering it a missing person's gate for right now,
Christian and Bruckner are behind bars on another offense, but
is set to be released. He has not even been
questioned about Maddie McCann as of Yet we wait as
justice and false Nancy grace Cum story of
Will it never end for the family of three year
old Mattie McCann, the beautiful little girl who was snatched
from her own bed while on vacation with her parents.
Can you imagine being away from on vacation, away from
your home and your familiar surroundings, lulled into a false
(00:31):
sense of complacency, and your baby goes missing. You'll hardly
even know where you are, where to look, who to call,
what to do. That is exactly what happened to the
parents of three year old Mattie, and to this day
no answers. But is there finally a break in the case?
(01:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace? Is there finally a break
in the case? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation
at serious XM one eleven. First of all, take a
(01:21):
listen to our friends at Sky News. A three year
old British girl has gone missing in the our garve
in Portugal. Course we can speak out to Dan Mason,
who's a journalist who works in that area. Dan, thanks
for joining us on Sky New Sunrise this morning. What
are the details that you've gleaned so far? Hello? Yeah, all,
I basically know is that the child was obviously thaying
(01:41):
a Mark Warner establishment and was reported missing around him
last night. She's three years old, assister the name of
Madeline or Maddie fair Hair, and the most of the
people in the area. We're through to about four o'clock
in the morning yesterday and obviously through hedges and down
(02:06):
the Duc to Avail and I've just been down this
morning to the club again to see if for anymore
news in the situation is basically the same as the
days pass. The situation stays the same. There's been a
lot of finger pointing. Everybody says that's somebody else's fault.
But bottom line, I believe investigators there at the holiday
(02:30):
resort dropped the ball. But is there a break in
the case. Finally, you know, her parents must be worn
down to a nub, just raw after all this time
looking for their little girl. Mattie McCann joining me an
all star panel to break it down and put it
back together again, or now attorneys joining me out of
(02:51):
New York. This morning, Jay said Oceans Forensic Psychiatrists. You
can find him on insta at doctor Daniel bober Chloye
Tiger thirty six your Seattle PD twenty two of that
homicide and author of Seattle's Forgotten serial Killer, Gary gene Grant.
He's at Chloyd Steger dot com. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,
(03:12):
Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
but straight out to Dave Mack Crime online dot Com
investigative reporter Dave Mack. Who is this German dude that
is now suspect number one? Who is he? Let's just
start with that. His name is Christian Bruckner. He's forty
(03:34):
three years old, as you mentioned, from Germany, who traveled
back and forth between Germany, Portugal and Italy. Pause pause,
Just tell me one thing. Is he connected in any
way to a statward child pornography? Yes, ma'am, he is.
It's really all I need to know right there? Do
I need to know anything else? Let me guess white
(03:54):
male loner listen to somebody's attic apartment something like that.
Am I even close to Dave matt Am? I just
a little close, bueh. And all this time this perv
has been right under the nose of police, the noses
(04:16):
of police. To tell me some more about this guy.
Just we know he's connected for sure to child porn.
Does he have Dave matt crime online dot com? Does
he have a criminal history. He's got a long criminal
history that includes robbery's burglaries, and he has been convicted
of sexual abuse of a child way back in nineteen
(04:38):
ninety four. Personal right, right? You know, Dave matt you
know how I feel about you. You know, I respect you,
care about you. You're on our team. But why in
the hey do you bury the lead? The guy has
child porn and he's got an abuse on a child
conviction headline. What else do we know about him? Dave Matt? Well,
(05:01):
you're correct, And the reason I pointed out the robbery's
burglaries and tourist thing is because that's how he slipped
under in the cracks in this investigation beginning with the
Portugal authority. You know you just said something about tourist.
What about tourist? What does that fit into his criminal history? Nancy?
He was actually known to burglarize the apartments and hotel
(05:25):
rooms of tourists in this particular place in Portugal where
Mattie McCann went missing. Now I get your reasoning, Dave,
mac hold on, Jackie's waving a note at me that
says our ape Dave mac Why is she waving that
at me? Because he planned the rate of a seventy
(05:49):
two year old American woman living in Portugal in two
thousand and five. He was It's just the most disgusting thing.
But it was right near the very place where Maddie
McCanne went missing. This is two years she Jackie's telling
me two rapes. You've got the seventy two year old woman.
Did he or did he not rape the seventy two
(06:11):
year old woman? Yes, he raped the seventy two year
old farms, so he didn't just plant as you just said,
he raped her. Is there another rape in his criminal history?
In his first conviction of sexual assault rate in nineteen
ninety four? Is that on the child boy or girl boy?
And there's another tourist, I mean, Joe's got Morgan, Cloyd Steiger,
(06:32):
doctor Daniel Bober, Jason Oceans. This guy should have been
locked up under the jail, but all the signs are
there's Cloyd Steiger twenty two years in homicide. Here's a
guy that has been breaking in to tourists hotel rooms.
Jackie did I ever tell you that happened to me?
(06:54):
One time? David and I went to Florida and we
had been on the beach. He went somewhere and I
was in a shower in the hotel room. I thought
I heard a door, but then I listened. I didn't
hear anything. When I got out of the shower, my pocketbook,
everything in my pocketbook was gone. And people have an
(07:18):
m O an m O. Would you agree with that?
Cloyd Steiger? This guy had an MO. He raped a
seventy two year old woman in that tourist area, and
as MO modus operendi. Method of operation was that he
would break into hotel rooms while tourists were out of
their hotel room. And that night Cloyd Steiger Mattie mckenn's parents,
(07:43):
we're having dinner about I think it was Dave McK
if anybody knows, correct me on the distance, about a
hundred yards away at an outdoor table, and they would
go back and check on the children asleep in the
rooms every twenty minutes. So they were out of their room.
Who's that, Dave? Is that you? They were about one
(08:03):
hundred and eighty feet away, and as you said, they
all took terms checking on the kid one hundred and
eighty feet away. That's much closer. Okay, so Chloy Steiger,
m that's what this guy is known for, plus a
pedophilic rate on a child. He's the perfect candidate. Yeah,
he is. You know, My understanding is they didn't know
he was a sex offender, which is no excuse because
(08:25):
anybody that limits themselves to known sex offenders and these
types of things shouldn't be doing this job because it's
not always somebody who has a previous conviction. So yeah,
they completely ignored this guy. I have no idea why.
I read something where the lead investigator was really zeroed
in on a parents. And that's what a bad investiators
when he decides what the answer is and only looks
(08:47):
for evidence to support his thesis instead of just being
open to where the evidence takes him. Well, you know what,
I don't even understand at all how you don't look
for people that have committed sex crime or burglaries crime
(09:14):
stories with Nancy Grace, guys, we are talking about a
major break in the case of beautiful three year old
Mattie McCann, who is kidnapped from her parents hotel room
while they're on vacation. She was asleep. Someone came into
the hotel room and took Mattie, leaving her siblings undisturbed. Guys,
(09:36):
I want you to take a listen to our friends
at Inside Edition. A German convict is now a suspect
in the two thousand and seven disappearance of Madeline McCann,
the British child who went missing from a resort in
Portugal when she was just three years old. Forty three
year old Christian Bruckner is currently incarcerated in his home
(09:57):
country on unrelated crimes. BBC reports authorities have been investigating
him since twenty seventeen after a friend of his came
forward to report he made disturbing comments about McCann while
in a bar watching coverage of the tenth anniversary of
her disappearance. German police reportedly said Bruckner lived in the
(10:19):
region of Portugal where Madeline was last seen. The child
disappeared from the hotel her family was staying in during
the vacation. Disturbing comments he made in a bar watching
the Mattie McCann coverage. When Mattie first goes get missing
back to you, Dave Mack joining me from crime online
(10:39):
dot Com. I understand that this freak and I'm saying
that because he's connected to child pornography and apparently he
moved to this area after serving part of a two
year sentence for molesting a six year old girl in Wurzburg.
At the time they went missing, he was living in
(11:02):
an area about a ten minute drive away. So the
child molestations are piling up. He lives ten minutes away
and he burglarizes hotel rooms. I'm very stunned the cops
didn't see him, and I understand Dave mac that Brittner
had been a person of interest at the jet Go
(11:23):
but then he was eliminated. Why well, and I need
to correct something earlier. I said that his first conviction
was a nine year old boy. It was a girl, Nancy,
and I apologize onto this still a child go ahead
him with this. He was eliminated as a suspect because
they were specifically looking for sexual preditors for those convicted
(11:44):
of sexual harassment, abuse and rate. He at that time,
Portugal only had him listed as a foreign thief as
a robber. They didn't have Christian Brutner on their list
as a sexual preditor, even though why they just didn't
and you know goes back we said, the Portugal authorities
dropped the ball from the beginning. They did bad part
(12:07):
is they passed bad information along to others so that
they he was eliminated as a suspect in the early
days of this investigation when he should have been the
primary suspect. You know, no offense to all our friends overseas,
but to you, Jessice Scott Morgan, Professor, forensic teath investigator.
Have you ever seen Pink Panther the movie, not the
(12:30):
actual Panther or the comic Panther that's pink. Yeah. Do
you know how? Yeah, you know how the police are
portrayed as bumbling idgets in these in particularly that country.
But when you hear stories like this, they did not
(12:54):
have him on their list of sex offenders. Look, I mean,
I know cops are overloaded. I get it. I've been
there as a prosecutor, but how could you not have
this guy on your list? He was just convicted of
raping a little girl. Yeah, it's tragic because this could
(13:15):
have been interdicted far in advance, you know, before it
every good have Tragic's the right word because tragic to me,
seems like it was an tragic incident or tragic accident.
This is no accident. This is flied out incompetence for
them not to have a child sex predator on their list. Yeah,
and therefore he was eliminating you're talking about. One of
(13:37):
the things that complicates this is you have the sovereignty
of these individual nations. It's not like going from you know, Alabama, Georgia,
from New York to you know, I know, Vermont, New
Hampshire or whatever. It's a it's a major pain. And
you know, they do have what's referred to as Interpole,
but I've worked with Interpole before Nancy on missing persons cases,
(13:58):
and it is just kind of this lucy goosey, kind
of soft in the middle kind of things clearinghouse without
any real Yeah, they don't, they don't. They they don't
have And you know, when we begin to think now
about things like databases and all this thing, and you know,
moving forward, you know, it's become more solid relative to
(14:19):
things like DNA databases. The problem with someone like this,
for uh, you know, they're from a behavior standpoint, is
the fact that they will collect things. And I think
that this guy, He's in multiple locations. If you had
that information from that, from those bits of evidence like DNA,
(14:42):
you may have been able to kind of connect the
dots more effectively, if you had a database that you
could go to that Interpol would set up. Now they
might have that now, but back during this period of
time they didn't, and it's it turned out to be
a total dumpster fire. And here's the problem. Not only
are we talking about Maddie Nancy, this guy is moving
(15:03):
between all of these different countries. How many other children
are there well keeping up with it. Jason Ocean is
joining me, renowned defense attorney and the Tri State area
joining me today from New York, Jason Oceans. The reality
is he is connected to many different young children, and
they all, whether they're boys or girls, look very similar physically,
(15:27):
and they all are similar in many ways to Mattie
McCann's appearance. Jason. Even here in the States where we
have aphists, where we have you've got a fingerprint data bay,
you've got DNA data bank, you've got a gun data bank,
they don't have all that in Portugal and the surrounding areas.
(15:49):
But we know this, we know is mo we know
where he travels. But even so, how is it that
he's slipped between juris dictional limits. How'd that happen? Initially
bad policing right, not taking the time to really circle
(16:10):
around beyond the parents, without the reason to think that
they would just come here to Portugal to dispose of
their three year old daughter. Nothing in the background that
I saw then, nor now after all these years, indicated
that they were responsible. It reminded me of the Eton
Pats case in New York where six year old went missing,
(16:30):
and again it turned right away to the parents, and
yet it was right under the noses at the corner bodega.
So sometimes drawing the line in the inference right away
precludes you from thinking outside that circle, or even perhaps
did he have an assistant letting him know, you know,
where these hotel rooms were unguarded, or you know, better
(16:54):
targets to go. So I just think from the onset
this investigation, she was doomed. You know, you kind of
sound like you're blaming police, and I agree that they
were inept and really screwed up the case. But the
police are not the ones that took Mattie out of
her room and raped her and killed her. And at
(17:15):
this juncture, we've been told several different things. We've been
told the police have told Maddie McCann's parents in a
letter which I think is kind of cold, that she's dead.
The parents are saying, we have received no such letter
to doctor Daniel Bober forensic psychiatrists. You can find them
(17:36):
on instat a doctor Daniel Bober. How hard is this
for the parents, what they've been through? Oh, you know, Nancy,
it's every parent's worst nightmare. It's absolutely devastating. And there's
really nothing that you're gonna say or do that's gonna
make that pain go away. And it's going to be
a pain that's gonna last for life. Absolutely crime stories
(18:09):
with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about a beautiful
little three year old girl who goes on vacation with
her parents. I remember it like it was yesterday, and
they put her down to sleep with their brothers and
sisters or siblings. She's never seen alive again. Now a
(18:31):
lot of people have blamed the parents, and yes, they
were out of the hotel room having dinner. Am I
happy about that? No? But they are not responsible for
her kidnap. They're not involved for years, they endured suggestions
(18:52):
that they were they've never given up trying to find
Mattie McCann, their little girl. Take a listen to our
friends at CBC. We know that he's a forty three
year old German Man. He is white. Now because of
Germans privacy laws, we don't know his identity, but what
police have said is that he has a history of
(19:12):
sexual violence, including against children, and that he's actually in
prison right now convicted of a sex crime. We also
know that he was living in the area where Madeline
disappeared at the time of our disappearance, and you can met.
Police have actually released some photos of vehicles that he
had driven at that time thirteen years ago. So again
(19:33):
we don't know his identity of police. I've simply said
that he has a history of not just sexual violence actually,
but of break ins of burglaries. He was known to
go going to people's homes and steal their things and
of course of violence. So this is a huge, huge breakthrough.
We know his name now, it's Christian Bruckner, with a
long rap sheet including sex abuse on little children, very
(19:59):
similar physic to Maddie McCann, and breaking into the exact
resort into hotel rooms where Maddie McCann was kidnapped. Also
the rape of a seventy two year old woman near
that resort. That's what we know about him. How police
let him slip through their fingers, I do not know.
But right now take a listen to Mark Cranwell. This
(20:23):
is the Maddie McCann investigator. He's white, he's about six
foot in height. He's forty three now. At the time
he was thirty, but he could have looked somewhere between
twenty five and thirty two. We know the identity of
this mail. We nominated him as a suspect for the
(20:43):
inquiry and the investigation team. This is a significant development
we are we've been working on this line of inquiry
for a couple of years. He had access to two vehicles.
What's about the two vehicles. The first one is a
camper van. It's a VWT three Westphalia model. It's an
(21:04):
early eighties model and the color tone it's quite distinctive.
It was quite old and probably described as a bit
beaten up, but it was an white upper body and
a yellow sort of lower body. We know that that
vehicle was in the area certainly the day's leading up
to it and the week afterwards to Jason Oceans attorney
(21:27):
joining us out of New York in New Jersey, Jason,
you and I covered the Danielle Van Damn kidnap, rape
and murder case from California. She was taken by the
neighbor David. I believe it was Westerfield. But long story short,
he kidnapped and held her in a camper van. And
(21:51):
we see over and over and over that a camper
or a van is used in kidnap, rape and murder
of children. That's quite the coincidence, is it not that
he used a camper van at the time she goes missing?
(22:12):
What about it? Jason? Otions remember that case daniel van
dam I do. I do, And it's a spot spot
on on that because that serves as the as part
of the EMO of the sexual assault or rape of
the of the victim. And so again I did not
mean to blame police, per se. I am a fan
(22:36):
of good. Somebody's doing cleanup now, yes, ma'am. But I
would say that a stute prosecutor that you are, that
that develops in those are all the hearts of the peace,
and you immediately looked at that, Jason. I think part
of it is you've got a home on wheels. Because
(22:57):
they don't have to take the child back to their
home or apartment. They don't risk being seen by a
landlady or a neighbor, or a roommate or a wife.
And they have room to move around to assault and
kill the child. And not only that, in a camper
or a van, they can secrete the child to the
(23:19):
back and nobody can see the child. It's not like
the child in the front of the back seat. So
they can hide the child and move around. That's exactly
get away with the child. They don't have to rape
and murder the child at the scene. They've got wheels,
they're mobile. I think that's why campers and vans are
(23:40):
favorites of child molesters. Jason, Oceans, jump and help me
out here. No, you're you are spot on, And that
is exactly the reason. It is a facilitating vehicle. Unlike
a car. It serves all of those purposes. And that's
again and good policing looking through that, you know, matching
(24:04):
good detective work is no no better than right there
at the spot and circling those things. Fancy that's it.
I wasn't solved early on. And uh, I'm going to
circle back to the next vehicle. But we know to
correct me if I'm wrong, Dave Mac, because there's so
many facts coming up fast and furious. New footage has
(24:26):
been captured inside Christian Brutner's layer, where police also discovered
a camper van containing a series of swimming outfits like
swimsuits that they be they believe belonged to young girls.
Is that correct, Dave Mac? Yes, man, they found a
(24:47):
bunch of children's swimwear. I mean, think about it, guys, Uh,
help me out to you. Kloyd Steiger, say a woman
goes and drives her husband's car one day for whatever reason,
and she finds a bunch of little girl swimsuits in
there that have been used. Isn't that a red veil
(25:08):
of alarm? Yeah? Sure is. You know I had a
case very similar with collection underwear like this and years ago,
and that's you know you should have sent off your
alarm a lot and one thing I want to Okay,
I can't understand you. Did you say you had a
case where somebody collected underwear? Yeah? What we suspected it
was a murder involved with a child that the person
(25:28):
died and we never found enough to charge. But I
want to think back to something doctor Bober said about
the parents' reaction, and he's exactly right. There's nothing worse
than a child than to lose a child, although but
there is one thing to have a child that disappears
that nobody knows what happened. I've looked into the dead
eyes of mothers of long term missing and that is
(25:50):
a cool, cool thing path to live through horrible and
it goes. It's gone on and on and on. First
of all, everybody blamed the parents. Did they they kill
their own child? It's their fault, everyone said, because they
were having dinner and left the children alone, even though
they checked on them every twenty minutes. It went on
and on. They were crucified in the media. But I mean,
(26:12):
the reality is so often wrong or right, jess Got Morgan.
When a child goes missing or is dead, very often
it is the parents. So the media was wrong. But
I understand why the media focused on them, do you yeah,
I do you know? And because it many times it
leads back. I think back to Susan Smith, you know,
(26:34):
of course, and you know what she had done. You
begin to and from a policy from yeah top momus,
you began to think about just from an investigative standpoint,
relative to these cases, it's going to be the intimates.
It's going to be those individuals that have the biggest
(26:55):
I don't know how to frame it relative to the
most hatred towards towards a person to want to destroy
the most connectivity for whatever reason, they're around them more,
they've got more opportunity. You know. We were talking and
so what happened to the McCanns was horrible. The family
being blamed the parents, but the reality is a vast
(27:16):
majority of the time the parents are involved. That does
not lessen the pain that was caused to the McCanns. However,
statistics don't matter because that's not what happened in this case.
(27:39):
Time Stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about the
Big break and three year old Mattie McCann's disappearance. Family
on vacation. The mom and dad go to dinner about
one hundred and eighty feet not yards, one hundred and
eighty feet away with some other friends that were there.
They go back. One of them goes back and forth
(28:01):
every twenty minutes to check on the shoulder to make
sure they're okay. On the last check, Mattie's gone. At
first they couldn't believe it. They tore apart the hotel
room apart looking for her. She's gone in the twenty
minutes since they last checked. They have endured so much
hatred and accusations since Mattie went missing. But now a
(28:25):
major break in the case. A guy that should have
been picked up on day one, Christian Bruckner, with a
rap sheet including sex molestation on a child, raping a
seventy two two year old woman in the same area
as the resort where the Mechans were staying, and burglary
breaking into hotel rooms. Now we mentioned the van that
(28:49):
this guy had, Christian Bruckner, he would have been thirty
at the time Maddie went missing, but he had a
second vehicle. Take a listen again to the Mattie McCann
investigators speaking to the Sun News Mark Cranwell, So this
is a Jaguar who's been described as dark in color.
It's an x j R six. He was registered in
(29:11):
ninety three, and we want to know does anybody remember
that vehicle. It's not particularly uncommon, not particularly unique. But
somebody will have remembered a Jaguar car in that area.
Did you see a German male using that car? Can
you remember that the car? Can you remember where he
saw it? Most intriguing is he reregistered the car on
(29:35):
May the fourth, This is a day after Madeline went missing.
He asked a friend to register the car in his
friend's name. We've established that our suspect, the man that
we have identified, used a telephone in that region at
that time. Particularly, that phone was used at seven thirty
(29:55):
two pm and the phone call was finished at eight
o two pm. He made he received a phone call
for thirty minutes, and we know that that phone was
in the area of PDL. Well, that's all well and
good now, but now you're asking people if they remember
a Jaguar how many years ago? Ah? Yeah, there they're
(30:17):
a day later. Dollars short. That's all I can say
about their police. Now take a listen to what we
learned about a forensics search on Christian Brutner's camper. Listen.
This is Skyne's forensic examination of the suspect's campa van
is thought to have found no trace of Madeline's DNA
and none in his Jaguar car, which was also seized.
(30:40):
We hope that some British tourists can help us to
find the murder of Medlin mckenns. Like the Scotland Yard colleagues,
German prosecutors have received hundreds of calls after last week's
appeals for help. Vigandup and do you think the suspect
has committed more crimes, possibly against British people and Irish
(31:02):
and Americans. We think there are more victims of sexual crimes.
The suspect is in jail in Germany. He too is
awaiting developments in the case. Detectives haven't yet questioned him
about Madeline. Now, I'm so burned up about this. All
those time is passing there now asking to ours what
(31:22):
they remember. They still haven't questioned the guy. What is
wrong with them? Yeah? I want to go out to you,
Dave mac We just heard the investigator talking about a
phone call that took place around seven thirty pm. And
what's so significant? He said, in the area. But it
was not just in the area. It was near the
(31:45):
McCann hotel apartment room, wasn't it, Yes, man, it was
right their mere feet away. From where Madeleine mccam was sleeping.
Another thing, Dave mac has me very concerned. There are
reports that a hotel staff member tipped Bruttner off. What
do you know about that? Well, police knew because Bruttner
(32:06):
had already had been robbing this particular resort over time.
As a matter of fact, he was convicted of robbing
that place before and spend time in jail overrid So
when police found out that he had this thirty minute
long phone conversation, they tried to figure out who it
came from. So they ended up running an ad and
putting it out in the public saying who has this number?
And it came back to an employee at the resort.
(32:28):
That's how they tied it together from Bruckner getting a
call from a resort employee essentially tipping him off as
to which apartments were unlocked. So let me understand. You
were telling me that police tracked the phone number that
called Brutner that night that Maddie goes missing. The phone
(32:50):
call was at seven thirty two pm the night she
goes missing. It lasted thirty minutes until eight o two.
The call was made by a tell worker. We now
believe who told Brutner the apartment would be unlocked. Police
release that phone number to the public in order to
(33:11):
identify the person to whom it belonged. Brutner got tips
on unlocked apartments so he could steal from tourists. So
let me understand this to you, doctor Daniel Bober. The
fact that somebody within the hotel is involved should have
(33:35):
made this and open a shut case. That person should
have come forward and stated, I know somebody was robbing
apartments that night Maddie goes missing. Why didn't they? The
good question, Nancy doesn't really make any sense. I mean,
the more you hear about this case, it seems like
there's a roadmap to this guy. So it's baffling. You know,
(33:56):
very often I have said, I don't know if you
agree with this or not. As Scott Morgan that burglars
and peeping tom's are and sex offenders are the three
criminals that have to repeat offend. They can't stop themselves.
There's something about burglar burglars. They get a thrill out
(34:18):
of going in somebody else's place and looking around and
taking things. It's very voyeuristic, as is peeping tom as
is sex offenses. In certain ways. What do you make
of that? Yeah, there's not too many degrees of separation
between the three, and it is secretive. You know, people
get burglary and robbery confused all the time. Burglary is
(34:38):
something where you enter a dwelling and there's no one there.
You don't expect to go in and like force someone
to give you money. You go in and you steal.
You get into intimate spaces where people exist, and you're
going to take jewelry. It's a perfect cover for somebody
that is a sexual predator. Though they can go in
and you know they might steal a few things relative
(35:00):
to valuables to sell them somewhere else. But when you
can get access to god, I hate to say this,
to the dirty laundry for instance, in a home, and
you can live out these fantasies, particularly in people's bedrooms
or bathrooms and all this sort of stuff, it's a
perfect recipe for something horrible to occur. And that's what's happened.
(35:20):
Back to this attendant, this is very scary to me
and very disturbing because he's got other people involved in this.
I doubt, like with most of these people, people think, well,
this is the first time he's done this. That's a
load of crap. No, it's not. I suspect that there
are probably other people that helped him facilitate these so
called burglaries all over Europe, and there's probably a network
(35:43):
of these people that knew that he was into burglary
and they were getting a kickback for it. And so
now you've got dead children that are involved in this
and I hate to say that she's dead, but that's
just my opinion. And there's people whose lives have been destroyed.
So it is very, very disturbing. Guys, we are hearing
that there is a disagreement between the German police and
(36:07):
the British police. Take a listen now to host David
Karts with Mike Neville, former police inspector. Listen, British investigators
are still trading. This is a missing person's case. What
sort of evidence do you think German prosecutors have and
why mightn't they share their alleged proof. Well, it's certainly
(36:32):
not fingerprints or DNA, because they're saying that doesn't exist.
So when they say there is no forensics, do they
mean there's no digital forensics, which could be computers or
for photographic evidence or is it simply a confession as
he told a friend or a police officer. He's done it,
as it's been recorded. But I think one of the
key things in this case is this phrase concrete evidence.
(36:54):
I spoke to my German friend who's a senior detective,
and I think it's been lost in translation. In German
it's sort of been reasonable grown suspects, rather than as
an English would mean the definitely absolute proof. I think
he's been lost in translation. So to you, Dave, mat
German prosecutors claim there's evidence indicating Maddie is dead, but
(37:17):
the Brits disagree. Explain well, bottom line is you said it.
The German officials say they have concrete evidence, but then
they actually updated their comment a few days ago saying, actually,
we don't really have any evidence. We just believe this
is the case. Meanwhile, the British authorities from Scotland ard
Operation Grains, which was put together to look into this case,
(37:40):
are still considering it a missing person's gate for right now,
Christian and Bruckner are behind bars on another offense, but
is set to be released. He has not even been
questioned about Maddie McCann as of Yet we wait as
justice and false Nancy grace Cum story of
Host
Nancy Grace
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