Exclusive: The body of PFC Vanessa Guillen found along Leon River in Texas. A witness reports seeing a suspect struggling to move a pelican case into a vehicle. That case is it believed, was used to transport Guillen's body off Fort Hood. One suspect in the case killed himself after word of the body recovery was made. A medical examiner will make the official identification of the body.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Tim Miller, Texas Equusearch
- Natalie Kwahan - attorney for Vanessa Guillen family
- Dr Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Beverly Hills, ww.drbethanymarshall.com
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author,"Blood Beneath My Feet"
- Olivia Levada KXXV TV reporter
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
We are bringing you the very latest in the search
for a beautiful twenty year old private first class out
of Forthood, Vaness Again. The search has come to an end.
(00:28):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace as we go to air
now the search for Vanessa again, gorgeous twenty year old
private first class forth Hood has come to an end.
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
(00:50):
being with us here at Fox Nation and Serious XM
one eleven. Take a listen to this. This is a
sad update from Texas equa Search. They tell us they
are suspending their search efforts for the missing soldier from
Houston after what was discovered there near the Leon River
in Bell County. Tim Miller described it as a shallow grave.
(01:12):
It's you know, believed to be her Penning positive identification,
which happy the search for Vanessa is now over. Texas
Equisearch is now calling off the search for missing twenty
year old soldier Vanesse again after Army investigators found human
remains in Bell County today. There was a shallow graves
(01:34):
or rocks covered the graves and stuff. And then if
you know, for the three days after you disappear at range,
so everything just looked natural. He are hearing the voice
of our long time friend and colleague, Tim Miller of Equasearch,
who is with us now, along with an all star
(01:54):
panel of guests, including the attorney for Vanesse Agean's family,
Shell Kawan, psychoanalyst, joining us out of Beverly Hills at
Bethany Marshall dot Com, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, death investigator,
author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan,
and special guests k x x VT verst to crime
(02:19):
victim turned crusader Tim Miller. Tim tell us in as
much detail as you can what happened. Well, Nancy, you
know what we've found. You know I've been saying, we
found some evidence and we knew it was evidence connected
(02:41):
to Banessa's disappearance less Saturday, and it's the evidence was burned,
but there was some of it that did not burn
and we knew immediately it was evidence. We actually doug
ye it wasn't, but I'm believing in Nancy. It was
only three feet away and the where the shallow grave
(03:07):
was at, we were actually standing on top of little
Vanessa's body. The Texas rangers were there, the military CID
cade were dogs, and what a job they did on
concealing her little body and what had happened. And we
actually was starting to search again in this sporting So
we had members up here yesterday and we was we
(03:30):
was out there to see too well after dark. And
I was actually right at that scene just three days
ago and really looking at some things, and I just
knew she had to be somewhere closer. What was it
a gut instinct? What led you? You've been telling me
that for days? What led you to say that? We
got a lot, a lot of information and the witness
(03:53):
came forward and talked about something that he saw. We
found what this witness saw? Can you tell us what
he thought he saw? Well, you know, when I get
my hands flapped out of them, I don't care at
this point in time, as far as I'm concerned us
over with somebody actually seemed somebody in one of them
big pelican cases about three foot by three foot with
(04:16):
them big plastic cases. And he was really struggling to
go ahead and get this into his vehicle. After witness
came forward, they had enough information to go ahead and
go to a judge and so we actually got the
phone record person went how long he was there and everything,
and hold on just a moment. I want to tell
(04:36):
everybody what you're talking about. A pelican case. I have
four of them, and on the front is a name Nancy, John, David,
Lucy and David. Usually really heavy plastic containers and you
can close it with a you know, a lot that
you just pull up to open and open it up
(04:59):
and Trent you can stuck it full of stuff and
they come annually big like plastic treasure chests or plastic
storage chests that you open and close and can latch
to keep it secure. A witness exists that saw a
man struggling to lift a pelican case into his vehicle,
(05:22):
and then we actually a yes, yes then and then
we actually found a burn pile when we was out there,
and probably about forty percent of the lid of that
pelican case did not burn. So when we found that,
it was like, oh my god, she has to be
in this area. Where was the burn pit? Tim Miller
(05:45):
right beside the Leon River where we was concentrating non searching,
and I was my biggest fear Nancy was Addy threw
her in the river. And that maybe she would never
ever been found. So when you saw that half burned
pelican case, what went through your mind? We knew that
(06:06):
it was going to take far more in a miracle
for her to be found alive and returned home. Do
you believe Tim that based on the evidence that we're
learning now, Well, let me ask a couple of pointed questions.
The witness, if the witness is accurate, sees a man
(06:27):
struggling to lift a pelican case, a black heavy duty
plastic container with a lid, into his vehicle. Where did
he the witness see that? On the base? It could
(06:49):
How could the army not figure that out? The armory
at the armory in the parking lot outside of where
she came out of the armory. She was working that armory,
So she had to be either killed or kidnapped on
the base. She was a very extremely physical fit, physically fit.
(07:12):
Isn't that true? Natalie Kawan, the attorney for Vanessa Gean's family.
She was in top shape. She's a private first class
in the Army. She runs all the time, Hi King
and her superior sergeant called her in off her day off,
So I think she would have had to have been
dead when she was putting that container. She unless she
(07:35):
was drugged, I don't see he could overpower her without
making such a ruckuss everybody around him could hear. What
was the state of her physical fitness, Natalie, Well, she
was super fit, um, you know, like we said she was.
She was a big runner, She played soccer. She was
working out in the gym all the time. I had
videos of her just lifting some serious weights. She was
(07:58):
gonna go for a hike that afternoon into I really
have to that had to be either our struggles or
like you said, some kind of a weapon or some
kind of drugs. Climb stories with Nancy Grace, we are
(08:24):
bringing you the very latest in the search for a
beautiful twenty year old private first class out of courthood
Vanessa again her allegations that if she had been sex
harassed by her superior, The Army says they don't have
any credible evidence of that. Well, you know what, I'm
(08:46):
sitting here a thousand miles away, and I know about
multiple statements she gave regarding that. Everybody. You were just
hearing Our friend who was with us right now, Tim Miller,
who was in on the search and saw the evidence
leading up to the discovery of Vanessa's body. Now take
(09:06):
a listen to our friends at ABC thirteen Houston. Colleen
police are investigating after more remains were found near the
site where the remains of a missing Forthood soldier were
found earlier this month. Now, these remains were reportedly found
within walking distance of where investigators found the body of
Private Gregory Wendell Morales on June nineteenth. Now, he had
(09:27):
been missing from forth Hood since August. His cause of
death is under investigation, but they have said they suspect
foul play. The remains found yesterday have been sent to
the Southwestern Institute of Forensic Sciences in Dallas. The discovery
was made as Texas equ was looking for another missing
Forthood Soldier, Private first Class Baness again Gan, was last
(09:47):
seen April twenty second on base. However, officials have not
yet said if these cases are connected straight out to
a special guest joining US Olivia, Levada with k XXV
TV Olivia. So now we've got the remains of another
Private Wendel Morales, and remains near him that we were
(10:11):
just hearing being described by our friends at ABC Houston.
But that's not Vanessa. What the h E double l
is going on at ford Hood. We've got two potential
sets of remains, plus Vanessa gam is dead and buried
in a shallow grave, obviously evidence having been burned. What
(10:34):
is going on at ford Hood? Olivia? You know what, Nancy,
I wish I could answer that question. What's going on
at Fort Hood is not right? That's what I can say. Man,
you're not kidding Olivia, Levada joining me k x x
(10:55):
V TV, as the news broke. First, there had been
a potential second set of remains near Fort Hood after
the remains of Gregory Wodell Morales were found. He's been
missing since last August. Then this second set of potential
remains found near him, now Vanessa, as the news broke,
(11:17):
is anybody asking at Fort Hood what you don't know
about all the dead bodies around the Fort Hood? And
you don't know about sex harassment? And now this beautiful
girl is dead and her mom and her sisters are
out of their minds with grief and they're what twiddling
their thumbs? I mean, look, my dad was in the military.
(11:38):
I support the military, but this is wrong. Is anybody
asking questions of Fort Hood? Olivia? Yes, we're asking questions
and receiving press releases. Press releases like a piece of
paper matters to me right now. I mean to you,
Natalie Kawan, you're the lawyer for Vanessa's family, who is
(11:58):
grief stricken. I spoken to her sister earlier, and her
sister so distraught in the search for Vanessa. How can
they say they didn't know about the sex harassment. How
can they send out a piece of paper as a
press release. I don't get it. Well, let me just
tell you this morning, I spoke to my client and
(12:21):
I spoke to I contacted the big attorneys there and
I had it out with them. I said, how is
it that I find out and my client finds out
information from the media before they find out from the
CID from the base itself. It is so pathetic that
you have kept us in the darkest whole time. And
it's funny how you guys have loose lips on the base,
(12:42):
but you don't have the dignity to call my client
and give them the information that they begged for for months.
And I said, this is definitely we are demanded a
congressial devestication. I want everyone to be held accountable for
this mishandling of a case and a soldier's life. Natalie,
I am so taken aback right now by what I
(13:04):
think you just said, because that was that was a
lot of information. You're am I understanding that Vanessa's family
found out that her remains had been found through the media.
That's correct, Nancy cannot break in for one minute, Tim Miller,
(13:24):
I could just I just can't believe that before Crime
Online or any of us reported it. We asked before
we report this, does the family know? And we were
told by an unnamed source, Yes, the family knows. Tim Miller,
(13:45):
I cannot believe the way the family. I mean, I'm
going to circle back with you, Tim about all the evidence,
but I just you know, Tim, I was getting chills
right now because I remember how I found out my
fiancee was in fact dead, he had been murdered. And
(14:07):
it was not over the six o'clock news. I was
told in person. And you know, Tim, you've been there.
You lost your daughter. God rest her soul. This is
just the way this family has been treated from the beginning,
(14:27):
having to beg for answers, the sister driving to Fort Hood,
trying to get answers and being stowalled. I'm just sick
about it. Tim. I mean, I know you you are
a crime victim. Can you imagine what this family has
gone through with all the bs they've been getting from Hood? Fancy.
(14:48):
I was driving up here yesterday. Anne Mayor called me up.
The sister called me up and she said, mister Miller,
what have you heard? And I said, Mayra, has anybody
called you? And she said, no, Please tell me what's
going on? Oh lord, I'm choked up now as one
of the saddest calls I've ever made in my life.
(15:09):
And I said, I I can't tell you exactly. I
only remained south to me to ask me. No military
nobody had called her. She called and said, mister Miller,
please tell me what is going on. I'm hearing the
stuff from the media. You know what, Tim Miller. You
know I'm going to go to our shrink. And I
say that in a loving carrying way with me as
(15:31):
a renowned psychoanalyst, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us out of
la Doctor Bethany, I'm not just so mad at you
and Nell in half of the way Fort Hood has
treated this family, but I'm also hurt because, you know,
when my dad just passed away, I was so proud.
(15:51):
The military was there and they played taps and they
acted like they cared, and I believe that they did
care and he this family has been treated like this
by our own military, which we love and revere. It's
just a real kick in the teeth, Nancy. Some small
(16:11):
group on that Fourth Hood base is more attached to
their own culture of CIA, covering their asses, having an
investigation under the shroud of secrecy, finding out what's going
on internally, then caring and having empathy for the family.
(16:34):
It's a bad culture there. And I will say I
was on several shows with Myra, Vanessa's sister. Myra is
so brave. She was there twenty four seven pushing this
story forward, coming on your show talking about her sister
keeping this front and center, and the fact that they
(16:54):
would not call her. It tells me again that they're
more This is a culture on this base where they
are more attached to their own story, to protecting themselves
in their own internal culture, than they are to victims.
It's inhumane, it's heartless. It's leaving the family out in
the cold. It's not respecting everything Vanessa did to give
(17:18):
her life and service for our country. You know another thing, Bethany,
there are times when you may be too numb to
let yourself care, but in your mind, you know what
is the right thing to do. They didn't have to
care about the Game family. And I can't make somebody
(17:39):
care or empathize or sympathize, but you know what is
morally right and wrong. And they knew they needed to
call the Game family, and I am hearing now they
did not that Vanessa's sisters trying to call Tim Miller,
who's driving to the seat to ask him what happened.
(18:10):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are bringing you
the very latest and extremely heartbreaking case about when I
say gorgeous, I mean gorgeous on the inside and the
outside of Vanessa gam just twenty years old. Why was
her life worth nothing to fort Hood? Why is that
(18:31):
because she's a woman and they're just not as important?
I don't know. Is it because she's Hispanic? Is it
because they thought she may file a sex harassment claim? Why?
Why have they acted like this from the get go?
You know what, that's that's a whole other can of
(18:55):
worms for us to figure out. And it's a can
of stinking fish. I want to get back to what
we know now. I am getting information right now, Olivia
Leveda k XXV TV that a member of the military
(19:16):
at Fort Hood has just died by pulling a gun
and shooting himself. Now police are not specifying what case
this guy is connected to. But I mean, I'm not
a rocket scientist, but I know that two or two
equals four. What do you know, Olivia Leveda, And the
(19:38):
last hours we learn a potential suspect has shot of
himself dead. Olivia. Yes, so, Nancy, this is everything we've
been told so far. We know that US marshals and
the Killeen Police Department, which is a city just outside
of Fort Hood, they assisted investigators with the Fort Hood
(19:58):
CID and one of their criminal cases early Wednesday morning. Today,
officials also saying that just before one thirty am, the
officers located this suspect, and they say that the officers
attempted to make contact with the suspect and he displayed
(20:19):
that weapon and discharged it toward himself. As you said,
at this point, we had not been told if this
criminal case was in reference to Vanessa, also to Natalie Kawan.
The lawyer for the Vanessagian family, Natalie, I think you
may have information on the shooting as well. What do
(20:40):
you know? Yeah, sure, I just got word that it
is the suspects to him that we suspected that shot himself.
They have video of him shooting himself and that's what happened.
Was they called a bolo last night. He would see
running off the base. I mean, this is breaking news
(21:01):
right now. We speak seen running off space which shorts,
you know, his army shorts on and they take them
and then he shot himself in the parking lot. I
wonder if it was the same parking lot where he
apparently kidnapped or put a dead body of Vanessa Gem
in a storage container. Joseph's got Morgan with me. Professor
Forensics jacksona state author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
(21:23):
and Tim Miller Texas Equisearch, who actually sees the evidence.
Is there on the scene when this young girl's body
is found buried in a shallow gray covered with rocks,
and that tells me somebody took a lot of time
to cover up her body. How did they get away
with that? How did they get away with putting her dead?
(21:44):
Or unconscious body and a plastic storage container leaving Fort Hood.
Why can that be you don't even see what's happening
in your own parking lot. How can we trust them
to protect our country if they don't even know what's
happening in their own parking lot outside the armory? For Pete,
say Tim Miller or Texas Equisearch, who has been searching
(22:04):
for Vanessa from the beginning, the very beginning, out there
in the rain, the heat, the mud, digging with k
nines and he is a volunteer. Let me just add
that on top of everything else, Tim Miller, it's amazing
to me that you're the one out there and the
(22:25):
army is what sitting with their thumb up their rear
ends while you guys are doing all the work along
with police. But that's a different issue. Tim Miller, please
describe for Joe Scott Morgan the moment you observe what
you saw and I'm going to get him to analyze
it forensically. Well, when we found again, Nancy that that
(22:48):
Pelican case, we knew it was evidence we dug under
and he tried to burn it. It's one of the
trees to burn it burned brances and leaves us the
tree fifteen foot high? Why nobody? Wait, wait, wait, wait, Tim,
will you say that again? That's really interesting to me. Yeah,
we found the burn pile. Uh, and leaves and branches
were burned about fifteen high, fifteen feet up in the tree.
(23:12):
So why not some big bonfire? Question? Tim? How far
away from ford Hood is this? Twenty six miles? Twenty
six miles? Okay, go ahead, and a mixed concrete they've
actually had concrete. They mixed up concrete. They dug the grave,
They put some line in the grave. They went ahead
(23:32):
and poured concrete over top of it, put dirt over that,
put rocks over top of that. No, they spent time.
They spent time. And I noticed that you're setting they
and that tells me that there's more than one suspect. Yeah,
I mean who who whoever? I'm you know, I may
have misquoted that. Actually, yeah, who ever did it? Now
(23:55):
here's the next question, and hopefully we'll know today. But
they're say, question mark, whether all of her body was found,
whether all the body parts are there. So we say
the search is over, but we should know by the
end of the day whether all the body parts are there,
and if not, we'll guess what would search is going
to go on for more body parts? Do you have
(24:16):
reason to believe all of her body is not there?
That was the word late last night. That was the
word late. I mean she was dismembered as well. I
don't know. I don't know. I don't anymore to Tim.
I mean, people ask me this all the time, but
I got to ask you, how do you keep going
when you see this over and over and over? Nancy?
(24:39):
I'm real human, I have real tears. I lose a
lot of sleep over this. At times I say I
can't go on anymore. But you know what, when you
get that call from the family and say, mister Miller,
please help, how can I say no? I wish somebody
would be on the other end of that phone. If
they can say no, they're different person than me, you know.
(25:01):
Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics and death investigator. That is
why so many lawyers, so many police, so many investigators
just crack up or they just leave. They leave it
because it's overwhelming. I was up half the night thinking
about Vanessa's family because I just keep hearing her sister's
(25:25):
voice when we would talk about trying to find Vanessa
and what a sweet home girl she was wanted to
stay in. Would come home every weekend, drive the three
hours to get home. You know. I used to do
that when I first started practicing law in Atlanta. I
did it for years. I'd go home to Macon every
weekend just thinking about that and her family now getting
(25:48):
this news, and now I hear from Tim Miller. They
had to call him. He's driving in the rain and
he has to tell them, you know what, Let me
get away from the emotion, or I'll just totally get
down in that hole and can't get out. Let me
talk about the evidence. That's something I can analyze. I
can understand that you're hearing what Miller is saying. Go
(26:09):
Joe Scott, Yay, you listen. They showed up, you know,
they showed up prepared, Nancy. You know what Tim is
telling us here relative to gravel or rock, that her
body was buried, that the grave was prepped, and that
they utilize lime. And for those that don't know, you've
(26:30):
probably heard about line before in movies and this sort
of thing. People a toss this white substance and it
is white and you know it allegedly speeds decay, and
so that goes to kind of a mindset, what are
you looking to do where you're looking to get rid
of a body, or at least in their thought, they're
going to get rid of a body and then they're
going to cover it with rock. Well, why do you
(26:50):
do that? Saying nay because you believe that there are
two suspects. It's not right Jackie Olivia Elevada and there
are two suspects, once in custody, once shot himself. I
think that's a good question for Natalie. Yeah, you know what,
you're right because she has some inside info crime stories
(27:18):
with Nancy Grace. Guys, for those of you just joining us,
we are giving you the latest in the discovery of
the body of twenty year old Vanessa Game and with
me an all star panel. But Natalie Kawana, lawyer for
Vanessa Gain's family, isn't it true there's more than one suspect.
(27:40):
That's correct. Sorry, that's correct. There's one in custody right
now and the other one's just shot himself last night
running on foot. Amazing to me, which is a whole
other can of worms for our shrink. Dr Bethany Marshall
to go into I mean, as much as I love
Jackie here in the seat, if she said, hey, help
and get rid of a body. Oh no, but that aside.
(28:06):
Back to the evidence, Joe Scott, you were saying that
they the suspects, came prepared with lime to decompose the
body even more quickly too. Yeahs say complete gravel, go ahead, Yeah,
And that they're going to prepare this and create almost
like a vault, you know, kind of a hastily made vault.
(28:30):
And why would you do that? Well, if anybody knows
anything about digging a grave or digging a hole in
the ground, one of the things that happens is when
do you disrupt that soil, you create a natural depression,
well an unnatural depression and otherwise tightly compressed soil. Its
thinking remind that soil out of fort Hood, that area
out there, it's it's kind of a clay based sand
(28:51):
and it's very very firm, tightly compact, and so it's
going to leave a hole. It'll be noticeable. So my
thought is they don't awareness of this, Nancy. They're gonna
mix up concrete out there and try to form this
over her body to encapsulate her body. But this is
this is a thing that's kind of key to me
(29:11):
because this is something that has been coming up over
and over and over again. It's the word shallow. Um.
If you're gonna go to all this trouble, why dig
a shallow grave in order to facilitate where they rushed,
you know, in this where they just trying to get
out of there. In my experience and having worked thousands
of cases, is that the line share of people in
(29:35):
general public are not used to dealing with dead bodies,
and so they get in the middle of this thing,
and I guess you haven't lifted a dead body. It's
so hard to lift a dead body. Was trying to
was struggling right there in the parking lot in front
of God and everybody to put the Pelican case. Tim
(29:57):
Miller's telling us about into the vehicle, and I want
you to hear this because this is going to affect
your analysis taken. Listen to our friends at ABC. Human
remains were found this morning. This comes after someone was
out here working on the fence. They said they saw
the human remains or what they thought were human remains,
and they called Bell County Sheriff's Department, who then came
(30:20):
out here, contacted the FBI, and contacted Army CID, who
later confirmed they were indeed human remains. But here today
is Bell County Sheriff's Department, FBI, Army CID, DPS, and
Texas Equal SARCH. Human remains were found right this close
to the street, and DPS Sergeant Brian Washco spoke earlier
(30:40):
about what led investigators back to this location that they
searched on June twenty second. Throughout the investigation. Throughout the
course investigation, more information was received which led the Texas
Rangers who were assisting the US ARMYCID. Well, yeah, the
CID was there, but as you hear from Tim Miller,
a civilian spotted one of the purps struggling to get
(31:07):
a black Classic container in a car in a vehicle.
That container was found half burned. Tim Miller saw it
and is there at the time of the discovery of
Vanessa's body. But a civilian smells a foul odor according
to our friends. You were just hearing nikkilat Rulo at
(31:27):
Casey E NTV. What about it, jos, I continue your analysis? Hey, yeah,
you know they showed up prepped and and they're going
to dig a shallow grave. And what Tim was talking
about is curious as well. After her body is deposited here,
I don't want to call her her, I want to
say Vanessa. After Vanessa's body was buried in this you
(31:54):
know throw together that they had, then they're going to
go and you know Tim talked about a burnpile. They're
going to try to burn this Pelican case. I've got
a Pelican case as well. These things are robust, Nancy,
as you well know, and they're they're meant they're sealed
in order to prevent water and moisture to get in there.
So that again goes to the mindset of these people.
(32:15):
They know that they're using this case in order to
transport a body. Well, what are you going to leave
behind the case? Well, you're going to leave behind trace evidence.
So they had awareness of this. Why are you going
to go to all this trouble to burn this valuable case? Well,
because you know that it's two and two together. If
you show up with this thing in your possession, you
know the cops going to examine it, So that again
(32:37):
goes to motive. But getting the body off post now
I'm an old soldier, Nancy, and I do know this
about the army, and I learned this when I first
went in at eighteen years of age. Right way, wrong way,
Army way, and the army has a way of doing things,
and they are a closed society now are closed culture.
Like Bethany had mentioned earlier, Vanessa worked what we common
(33:02):
refer to as an armorer. That means that she repaired
small arms. And this is not you know, if you
go into the armory at at a post, this is
a highly secured area. That's what's so striking to me
about this. It's a highly secured area because, look, you
keep small arms in there, you don't, you know, contrary
to what people think, soldiers don't just walk around with
(33:23):
their firearms or where their weapons. They have to take
them in, store them in the armory, all right, and
then you come out and you take them from the armory.
And there's very little people who are allowed, as we
used to say, on the other side of the counter
in the armory because you've got deadly weapons in there.
So that means to me, particularly in this day and age,
(33:44):
that their security on that area. The army knows what's
going on. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they
had CCTV that is going to account for her location
those moments immediately when she entered the armory and then
when she left. And yeah, what about Colin Muster when
(34:06):
you they said she absolutely was there, and she was
she wasn't, she was gone. It's just it's it's striking
to me that you can miss this young soldier like this,
that she is allowed her remains. And this is the
key as well. I don't know she was alive or
deceased when she rolled off at Fort Hood. Did they
(34:30):
kill her on post or did they take her off?
And Tim Miller joining us from Texas EQUI search first
him if you could, based on what you know now,
answer that question, was she dead when she was surreptitiously
taken off Fort Hood? And if you could describe for
(34:53):
those just joining us, what you observed at the discovery
of Vanessa's body. Well, my theory is, and I think
everybody she was killed inside the armory. I think she
was killed earlier that morning inside the armory, came back
about eight thirty that night. That's when somebody spotted him
with that pelican case. So she apparently could have been
(35:16):
in that pelican case for ten hours inside the armory somewhere.
The one of the sad things yesterday out out in
a site, Nancy, is when they did get to Vanessa's
little body out there, there was she was still covered
in concrete. It was a mold. So what they did
is they put the concrete her little body that was
(35:38):
still molded into concrete in the body bag. So as
we're speaking right now, I'm sure they are just very
slowly chipping concrete a wife of her little remains and
stuff to be able to do an autopsy report. Jim,
I'm just trying to take in what you just said.
So the killer poured wet cement directly onto Vanessa. She
(36:07):
was molded in the concrete. They had to take the concrete.
Was her little body in the concrete. And like I said,
as I password speaking right now, they're just shipping away
concrete off of a body so they can do an
autopsy report without damaging other body parts, to see if
they can determine their cause of death. You know what
(36:29):
I'm going to say something that was never allowed for
me to say. The juries You can never under the
law put a jurar in the place in the shoes
of the crime victim. Think about it. Do you have
a mom, a daughter, sister. Vanessa was just twenty years old,
(36:53):
and now her body is found in a shallow grave
with concrete literally poured on to her skin to conceal
her identity. Sometimes I wonder is there justice? But I
pray to God that there will be justice for Vanessa.
(37:17):
Nancy Grace Crime's story, signing off good bye friend.
We are bringing you the very latest in the search
for a beautiful twenty year old private first class out
of Forthood, Vaness Again. The search has come to an end.
(00:28):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace as we go to air
now the search for Vanessa again, gorgeous twenty year old
private first class forth Hood has come to an end.
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
(00:50):
being with us here at Fox Nation and Serious XM
one eleven. Take a listen to this. This is a
sad update from Texas equa Search. They tell us they
are suspending their search efforts for the missing soldier from
Houston after what was discovered there near the Leon River
in Bell County. Tim Miller described it as a shallow grave.
(01:12):
It's you know, believed to be her Penning positive identification,
which happy the search for Vanessa is now over. Texas
Equisearch is now calling off the search for missing twenty
year old soldier Vanesse again after Army investigators found human
remains in Bell County today. There was a shallow graves
(01:34):
or rocks covered the graves and stuff. And then if
you know, for the three days after you disappear at range,
so everything just looked natural. He are hearing the voice
of our long time friend and colleague, Tim Miller of Equasearch,
who is with us now, along with an all star
(01:54):
panel of guests, including the attorney for Vanesse Agean's family,
Shell Kawan, psychoanalyst, joining us out of Beverly Hills at
Bethany Marshall dot Com, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, death investigator,
author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan,
and special guests k x x VT verst to crime
(02:19):
victim turned crusader Tim Miller. Tim tell us in as
much detail as you can what happened. Well, Nancy, you
know what we've found. You know I've been saying, we
found some evidence and we knew it was evidence connected
(02:41):
to Banessa's disappearance less Saturday, and it's the evidence was burned,
but there was some of it that did not burn
and we knew immediately it was evidence. We actually doug
ye it wasn't, but I'm believing in Nancy. It was
only three feet away and the where the shallow grave
(03:07):
was at, we were actually standing on top of little
Vanessa's body. The Texas rangers were there, the military CID
cade were dogs, and what a job they did on
concealing her little body and what had happened. And we
actually was starting to search again in this sporting So
we had members up here yesterday and we was we
(03:30):
was out there to see too well after dark. And
I was actually right at that scene just three days
ago and really looking at some things, and I just
knew she had to be somewhere closer. What was it
a gut instinct? What led you? You've been telling me
that for days? What led you to say that? We
got a lot, a lot of information and the witness
(03:53):
came forward and talked about something that he saw. We
found what this witness saw? Can you tell us what
he thought he saw? Well, you know, when I get
my hands flapped out of them, I don't care at
this point in time, as far as I'm concerned us
over with somebody actually seemed somebody in one of them
big pelican cases about three foot by three foot with
(04:16):
them big plastic cases. And he was really struggling to
go ahead and get this into his vehicle. After witness
came forward, they had enough information to go ahead and
go to a judge and so we actually got the
phone record person went how long he was there and everything,
and hold on just a moment. I want to tell
(04:36):
everybody what you're talking about. A pelican case. I have
four of them, and on the front is a name Nancy, John, David,
Lucy and David. Usually really heavy plastic containers and you
can close it with a you know, a lot that
you just pull up to open and open it up
(04:59):
and Trent you can stuck it full of stuff and
they come annually big like plastic treasure chests or plastic
storage chests that you open and close and can latch
to keep it secure. A witness exists that saw a
man struggling to lift a pelican case into his vehicle,
(05:22):
and then we actually a yes, yes then and then
we actually found a burn pile when we was out there,
and probably about forty percent of the lid of that
pelican case did not burn. So when we found that,
it was like, oh my god, she has to be
in this area. Where was the burn pit? Tim Miller
(05:45):
right beside the Leon River where we was concentrating non searching,
and I was my biggest fear Nancy was Addy threw
her in the river. And that maybe she would never
ever been found. So when you saw that half burned
pelican case, what went through your mind? We knew that
(06:06):
it was going to take far more in a miracle
for her to be found alive and returned home. Do
you believe Tim that based on the evidence that we're
learning now, Well, let me ask a couple of pointed questions.
The witness, if the witness is accurate, sees a man
(06:27):
struggling to lift a pelican case, a black heavy duty
plastic container with a lid, into his vehicle. Where did
he the witness see that? On the base? It could
(06:49):
How could the army not figure that out? The armory
at the armory in the parking lot outside of where
she came out of the armory. She was working that armory,
So she had to be either killed or kidnapped on
the base. She was a very extremely physical fit, physically fit.
(07:12):
Isn't that true? Natalie Kawan, the attorney for Vanessa Gean's family.
She was in top shape. She's a private first class
in the Army. She runs all the time, Hi King
and her superior sergeant called her in off her day off,
So I think she would have had to have been
dead when she was putting that container. She unless she
(07:35):
was drugged, I don't see he could overpower her without
making such a ruckuss everybody around him could hear. What
was the state of her physical fitness, Natalie, Well, she
was super fit, um, you know, like we said she was.
She was a big runner, She played soccer. She was
working out in the gym all the time. I had
videos of her just lifting some serious weights. She was
(07:58):
gonna go for a hike that afternoon into I really
have to that had to be either our struggles or
like you said, some kind of a weapon or some
kind of drugs. Climb stories with Nancy Grace, we are
(08:24):
bringing you the very latest in the search for a
beautiful twenty year old private first class out of courthood
Vanessa again her allegations that if she had been sex
harassed by her superior, The Army says they don't have
any credible evidence of that. Well, you know what, I'm
(08:46):
sitting here a thousand miles away, and I know about
multiple statements she gave regarding that. Everybody. You were just
hearing Our friend who was with us right now, Tim Miller,
who was in on the search and saw the evidence
leading up to the discovery of Vanessa's body. Now take
(09:06):
a listen to our friends at ABC thirteen Houston. Colleen
police are investigating after more remains were found near the
site where the remains of a missing Forthood soldier were
found earlier this month. Now, these remains were reportedly found
within walking distance of where investigators found the body of
Private Gregory Wendell Morales on June nineteenth. Now, he had
(09:27):
been missing from forth Hood since August. His cause of
death is under investigation, but they have said they suspect
foul play. The remains found yesterday have been sent to
the Southwestern Institute of Forensic Sciences in Dallas. The discovery
was made as Texas equ was looking for another missing
Forthood Soldier, Private first Class Baness again Gan, was last
(09:47):
seen April twenty second on base. However, officials have not
yet said if these cases are connected straight out to
a special guest joining US Olivia, Levada with k XXV
TV Olivia. So now we've got the remains of another
Private Wendel Morales, and remains near him that we were
(10:11):
just hearing being described by our friends at ABC Houston.
But that's not Vanessa. What the h E double l
is going on at ford Hood. We've got two potential
sets of remains, plus Vanessa gam is dead and buried
in a shallow grave, obviously evidence having been burned. What
(10:34):
is going on at ford Hood? Olivia? You know what, Nancy,
I wish I could answer that question. What's going on
at Fort Hood is not right? That's what I can say. Man,
you're not kidding Olivia, Levada joining me k x x
(10:55):
V TV, as the news broke. First, there had been
a potential second set of remains near Fort Hood after
the remains of Gregory Wodell Morales were found. He's been
missing since last August. Then this second set of potential
remains found near him, now Vanessa, as the news broke,
(11:17):
is anybody asking at Fort Hood what you don't know
about all the dead bodies around the Fort Hood? And
you don't know about sex harassment? And now this beautiful
girl is dead and her mom and her sisters are
out of their minds with grief and they're what twiddling
their thumbs? I mean, look, my dad was in the military.
(11:38):
I support the military, but this is wrong. Is anybody
asking questions of Fort Hood? Olivia? Yes, we're asking questions
and receiving press releases. Press releases like a piece of
paper matters to me right now. I mean to you,
Natalie Kawan, you're the lawyer for Vanessa's family, who is
(11:58):
grief stricken. I spoken to her sister earlier, and her
sister so distraught in the search for Vanessa. How can
they say they didn't know about the sex harassment. How
can they send out a piece of paper as a
press release. I don't get it. Well, let me just
tell you this morning, I spoke to my client and
(12:21):
I spoke to I contacted the big attorneys there and
I had it out with them. I said, how is
it that I find out and my client finds out
information from the media before they find out from the
CID from the base itself. It is so pathetic that
you have kept us in the darkest whole time. And
it's funny how you guys have loose lips on the base,
(12:42):
but you don't have the dignity to call my client
and give them the information that they begged for for months.
And I said, this is definitely we are demanded a
congressial devestication. I want everyone to be held accountable for
this mishandling of a case and a soldier's life. Natalie,
I am so taken aback right now by what I
(13:04):
think you just said, because that was that was a
lot of information. You're am I understanding that Vanessa's family
found out that her remains had been found through the media.
That's correct, Nancy cannot break in for one minute, Tim Miller,
(13:24):
I could just I just can't believe that before Crime
Online or any of us reported it. We asked before
we report this, does the family know? And we were
told by an unnamed source, Yes, the family knows. Tim Miller,
(13:45):
I cannot believe the way the family. I mean, I'm
going to circle back with you, Tim about all the evidence,
but I just you know, Tim, I was getting chills
right now because I remember how I found out my
fiancee was in fact dead, he had been murdered. And
(14:07):
it was not over the six o'clock news. I was
told in person. And you know, Tim, you've been there.
You lost your daughter. God rest her soul. This is
just the way this family has been treated from the beginning,
(14:27):
having to beg for answers, the sister driving to Fort Hood,
trying to get answers and being stowalled. I'm just sick
about it. Tim. I mean, I know you you are
a crime victim. Can you imagine what this family has
gone through with all the bs they've been getting from Hood? Fancy.
(14:48):
I was driving up here yesterday. Anne Mayor called me up.
The sister called me up and she said, mister Miller,
what have you heard? And I said, Mayra, has anybody
called you? And she said, no, Please tell me what's
going on? Oh lord, I'm choked up now as one
of the saddest calls I've ever made in my life.
(15:09):
And I said, I I can't tell you exactly. I
only remained south to me to ask me. No military
nobody had called her. She called and said, mister Miller,
please tell me what is going on. I'm hearing the
stuff from the media. You know what, Tim Miller. You
know I'm going to go to our shrink. And I
say that in a loving carrying way with me as
(15:31):
a renowned psychoanalyst, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us out of
la Doctor Bethany, I'm not just so mad at you
and Nell in half of the way Fort Hood has
treated this family, but I'm also hurt because, you know,
when my dad just passed away, I was so proud.
(15:51):
The military was there and they played taps and they
acted like they cared, and I believe that they did
care and he this family has been treated like this
by our own military, which we love and revere. It's
just a real kick in the teeth, Nancy. Some small
(16:11):
group on that Fourth Hood base is more attached to
their own culture of CIA, covering their asses, having an
investigation under the shroud of secrecy, finding out what's going
on internally, then caring and having empathy for the family.
(16:34):
It's a bad culture there. And I will say I
was on several shows with Myra, Vanessa's sister. Myra is
so brave. She was there twenty four seven pushing this
story forward, coming on your show talking about her sister
keeping this front and center, and the fact that they
(16:54):
would not call her. It tells me again that they're
more This is a culture on this base where they
are more attached to their own story, to protecting themselves
in their own internal culture, than they are to victims.
It's inhumane, it's heartless. It's leaving the family out in
the cold. It's not respecting everything Vanessa did to give
(17:18):
her life and service for our country. You know another thing, Bethany,
there are times when you may be too numb to
let yourself care, but in your mind, you know what
is the right thing to do. They didn't have to
care about the Game family. And I can't make somebody
(17:39):
care or empathize or sympathize, but you know what is
morally right and wrong. And they knew they needed to
call the Game family, and I am hearing now they
did not that Vanessa's sisters trying to call Tim Miller,
who's driving to the seat to ask him what happened.
(18:10):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are bringing you
the very latest and extremely heartbreaking case about when I
say gorgeous, I mean gorgeous on the inside and the
outside of Vanessa gam just twenty years old. Why was
her life worth nothing to fort Hood? Why is that
(18:31):
because she's a woman and they're just not as important?
I don't know. Is it because she's Hispanic? Is it
because they thought she may file a sex harassment claim? Why?
Why have they acted like this from the get go?
You know what, that's that's a whole other can of
(18:55):
worms for us to figure out. And it's a can
of stinking fish. I want to get back to what
we know now. I am getting information right now, Olivia
Leveda k XXV TV that a member of the military
(19:16):
at Fort Hood has just died by pulling a gun
and shooting himself. Now police are not specifying what case
this guy is connected to. But I mean, I'm not
a rocket scientist, but I know that two or two
equals four. What do you know, Olivia Leveda, And the
(19:38):
last hours we learn a potential suspect has shot of
himself dead. Olivia. Yes, so, Nancy, this is everything we've
been told so far. We know that US marshals and
the Killeen Police Department, which is a city just outside
of Fort Hood, they assisted investigators with the Fort Hood
(19:58):
CID and one of their criminal cases early Wednesday morning. Today,
officials also saying that just before one thirty am, the
officers located this suspect, and they say that the officers
attempted to make contact with the suspect and he displayed
(20:19):
that weapon and discharged it toward himself. As you said,
at this point, we had not been told if this
criminal case was in reference to Vanessa, also to Natalie Kawan.
The lawyer for the Vanessagian family, Natalie, I think you
may have information on the shooting as well. What do
(20:40):
you know? Yeah, sure, I just got word that it
is the suspects to him that we suspected that shot himself.
They have video of him shooting himself and that's what happened.
Was they called a bolo last night. He would see
running off the base. I mean, this is breaking news
(21:01):
right now. We speak seen running off space which shorts,
you know, his army shorts on and they take them
and then he shot himself in the parking lot. I
wonder if it was the same parking lot where he
apparently kidnapped or put a dead body of Vanessa Gem
in a storage container. Joseph's got Morgan with me. Professor
Forensics jacksona state author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
(21:23):
and Tim Miller Texas Equisearch, who actually sees the evidence.
Is there on the scene when this young girl's body
is found buried in a shallow gray covered with rocks,
and that tells me somebody took a lot of time
to cover up her body. How did they get away
with that? How did they get away with putting her dead?
(21:44):
Or unconscious body and a plastic storage container leaving Fort Hood.
Why can that be you don't even see what's happening
in your own parking lot. How can we trust them
to protect our country if they don't even know what's
happening in their own parking lot outside the armory? For Pete,
say Tim Miller or Texas Equisearch, who has been searching
(22:04):
for Vanessa from the beginning, the very beginning, out there
in the rain, the heat, the mud, digging with k
nines and he is a volunteer. Let me just add
that on top of everything else, Tim Miller, it's amazing
to me that you're the one out there and the
(22:25):
army is what sitting with their thumb up their rear
ends while you guys are doing all the work along
with police. But that's a different issue. Tim Miller, please
describe for Joe Scott Morgan the moment you observe what
you saw and I'm going to get him to analyze
it forensically. Well, when we found again, Nancy that that
(22:48):
Pelican case, we knew it was evidence we dug under
and he tried to burn it. It's one of the
trees to burn it burned brances and leaves us the
tree fifteen foot high? Why nobody? Wait, wait, wait, wait, Tim,
will you say that again? That's really interesting to me. Yeah,
we found the burn pile. Uh, and leaves and branches
were burned about fifteen high, fifteen feet up in the tree.
(23:12):
So why not some big bonfire? Question? Tim? How far
away from ford Hood is this? Twenty six miles? Twenty
six miles? Okay, go ahead, and a mixed concrete they've
actually had concrete. They mixed up concrete. They dug the grave,
They put some line in the grave. They went ahead
(23:32):
and poured concrete over top of it, put dirt over that,
put rocks over top of that. No, they spent time.
They spent time. And I noticed that you're setting they
and that tells me that there's more than one suspect. Yeah,
I mean who who whoever? I'm you know, I may
have misquoted that. Actually, yeah, who ever did it? Now
(23:55):
here's the next question, and hopefully we'll know today. But
they're say, question mark, whether all of her body was found,
whether all the body parts are there. So we say
the search is over, but we should know by the
end of the day whether all the body parts are there,
and if not, we'll guess what would search is going
to go on for more body parts? Do you have
(24:16):
reason to believe all of her body is not there?
That was the word late last night. That was the
word late. I mean she was dismembered as well. I
don't know. I don't know. I don't anymore to Tim.
I mean, people ask me this all the time, but
I got to ask you, how do you keep going
when you see this over and over and over? Nancy?
(24:39):
I'm real human, I have real tears. I lose a
lot of sleep over this. At times I say I
can't go on anymore. But you know what, when you
get that call from the family and say, mister Miller,
please help, how can I say no? I wish somebody
would be on the other end of that phone. If
they can say no, they're different person than me, you know.
(25:01):
Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics and death investigator. That is
why so many lawyers, so many police, so many investigators
just crack up or they just leave. They leave it
because it's overwhelming. I was up half the night thinking
about Vanessa's family because I just keep hearing her sister's
(25:25):
voice when we would talk about trying to find Vanessa
and what a sweet home girl she was wanted to
stay in. Would come home every weekend, drive the three
hours to get home. You know. I used to do
that when I first started practicing law in Atlanta. I
did it for years. I'd go home to Macon every
weekend just thinking about that and her family now getting
(25:48):
this news, and now I hear from Tim Miller. They
had to call him. He's driving in the rain and
he has to tell them, you know what, Let me
get away from the emotion, or I'll just totally get
down in that hole and can't get out. Let me
talk about the evidence. That's something I can analyze. I
can understand that you're hearing what Miller is saying. Go
(26:09):
Joe Scott, Yay, you listen. They showed up, you know,
they showed up prepared, Nancy. You know what Tim is
telling us here relative to gravel or rock, that her
body was buried, that the grave was prepped, and that
they utilize lime. And for those that don't know, you've
(26:30):
probably heard about line before in movies and this sort
of thing. People a toss this white substance and it
is white and you know it allegedly speeds decay, and
so that goes to kind of a mindset, what are
you looking to do where you're looking to get rid
of a body, or at least in their thought, they're
going to get rid of a body and then they're
going to cover it with rock. Well, why do you
(26:50):
do that? Saying nay because you believe that there are
two suspects. It's not right Jackie Olivia Elevada and there
are two suspects, once in custody, once shot himself. I
think that's a good question for Natalie. Yeah, you know what,
you're right because she has some inside info crime stories
(27:18):
with Nancy Grace. Guys, for those of you just joining us,
we are giving you the latest in the discovery of
the body of twenty year old Vanessa Game and with
me an all star panel. But Natalie Kawana, lawyer for
Vanessa Gain's family, isn't it true there's more than one suspect.
(27:40):
That's correct. Sorry, that's correct. There's one in custody right
now and the other one's just shot himself last night
running on foot. Amazing to me, which is a whole
other can of worms for our shrink. Dr Bethany Marshall
to go into I mean, as much as I love
Jackie here in the seat, if she said, hey, help
and get rid of a body. Oh no, but that aside.
(28:06):
Back to the evidence, Joe Scott, you were saying that
they the suspects, came prepared with lime to decompose the
body even more quickly too. Yeahs say complete gravel, go ahead, Yeah,
And that they're going to prepare this and create almost
like a vault, you know, kind of a hastily made vault.
(28:30):
And why would you do that? Well, if anybody knows
anything about digging a grave or digging a hole in
the ground, one of the things that happens is when
do you disrupt that soil, you create a natural depression,
well an unnatural depression and otherwise tightly compressed soil. Its
thinking remind that soil out of fort Hood, that area
out there, it's it's kind of a clay based sand
(28:51):
and it's very very firm, tightly compact, and so it's
going to leave a hole. It'll be noticeable. So my
thought is they don't awareness of this, Nancy. They're gonna
mix up concrete out there and try to form this
over her body to encapsulate her body. But this is
this is a thing that's kind of key to me
(29:11):
because this is something that has been coming up over
and over and over again. It's the word shallow. Um.
If you're gonna go to all this trouble, why dig
a shallow grave in order to facilitate where they rushed,
you know, in this where they just trying to get
out of there. In my experience and having worked thousands
of cases, is that the line share of people in
(29:35):
general public are not used to dealing with dead bodies,
and so they get in the middle of this thing,
and I guess you haven't lifted a dead body. It's
so hard to lift a dead body. Was trying to
was struggling right there in the parking lot in front
of God and everybody to put the Pelican case. Tim
(29:57):
Miller's telling us about into the vehicle, and I want
you to hear this because this is going to affect
your analysis taken. Listen to our friends at ABC. Human
remains were found this morning. This comes after someone was
out here working on the fence. They said they saw
the human remains or what they thought were human remains,
and they called Bell County Sheriff's Department, who then came
(30:20):
out here, contacted the FBI, and contacted Army CID, who
later confirmed they were indeed human remains. But here today
is Bell County Sheriff's Department, FBI, Army CID, DPS, and
Texas Equal SARCH. Human remains were found right this close
to the street, and DPS Sergeant Brian Washco spoke earlier
(30:40):
about what led investigators back to this location that they
searched on June twenty second. Throughout the investigation. Throughout the
course investigation, more information was received which led the Texas
Rangers who were assisting the US ARMYCID. Well, yeah, the
CID was there, but as you hear from Tim Miller,
a civilian spotted one of the purps struggling to get
(31:07):
a black Classic container in a car in a vehicle.
That container was found half burned. Tim Miller saw it
and is there at the time of the discovery of
Vanessa's body. But a civilian smells a foul odor according
to our friends. You were just hearing nikkilat Rulo at
(31:27):
Casey E NTV. What about it, jos, I continue your analysis? Hey, yeah,
you know they showed up prepped and and they're going
to dig a shallow grave. And what Tim was talking
about is curious as well. After her body is deposited here,
I don't want to call her her, I want to
say Vanessa. After Vanessa's body was buried in this you
(31:54):
know throw together that they had, then they're going to
go and you know Tim talked about a burnpile. They're
going to try to burn this Pelican case. I've got
a Pelican case as well. These things are robust, Nancy,
as you well know, and they're they're meant they're sealed
in order to prevent water and moisture to get in there.
So that again goes to the mindset of these people.
(32:15):
They know that they're using this case in order to
transport a body. Well, what are you going to leave
behind the case? Well, you're going to leave behind trace evidence.
So they had awareness of this. Why are you going
to go to all this trouble to burn this valuable case? Well,
because you know that it's two and two together. If
you show up with this thing in your possession, you
know the cops going to examine it, So that again
(32:37):
goes to motive. But getting the body off post now
I'm an old soldier, Nancy, and I do know this
about the army, and I learned this when I first
went in at eighteen years of age. Right way, wrong way,
Army way, and the army has a way of doing things,
and they are a closed society now are closed culture.
Like Bethany had mentioned earlier, Vanessa worked what we common
(33:02):
refer to as an armorer. That means that she repaired
small arms. And this is not you know, if you
go into the armory at at a post, this is
a highly secured area. That's what's so striking to me
about this. It's a highly secured area because, look, you
keep small arms in there, you don't, you know, contrary
to what people think, soldiers don't just walk around with
(33:23):
their firearms or where their weapons. They have to take
them in, store them in the armory, all right, and
then you come out and you take them from the armory.
And there's very little people who are allowed, as we
used to say, on the other side of the counter
in the armory because you've got deadly weapons in there.
So that means to me, particularly in this day and age,
(33:44):
that their security on that area. The army knows what's
going on. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they
had CCTV that is going to account for her location
those moments immediately when she entered the armory and then
when she left. And yeah, what about Colin Muster when
(34:06):
you they said she absolutely was there, and she was
she wasn't, she was gone. It's just it's it's striking
to me that you can miss this young soldier like this,
that she is allowed her remains. And this is the
key as well. I don't know she was alive or
deceased when she rolled off at Fort Hood. Did they
(34:30):
kill her on post or did they take her off?
And Tim Miller joining us from Texas EQUI search first
him if you could, based on what you know now,
answer that question, was she dead when she was surreptitiously
taken off Fort Hood? And if you could describe for
(34:53):
those just joining us, what you observed at the discovery
of Vanessa's body. Well, my theory is, and I think
everybody she was killed inside the armory. I think she
was killed earlier that morning inside the armory, came back
about eight thirty that night. That's when somebody spotted him
with that pelican case. So she apparently could have been
(35:16):
in that pelican case for ten hours inside the armory somewhere.
The one of the sad things yesterday out out in
a site, Nancy, is when they did get to Vanessa's
little body out there, there was she was still covered
in concrete. It was a mold. So what they did
is they put the concrete her little body that was
(35:38):
still molded into concrete in the body bag. So as
we're speaking right now, I'm sure they are just very
slowly chipping concrete a wife of her little remains and
stuff to be able to do an autopsy report. Jim,
I'm just trying to take in what you just said.
So the killer poured wet cement directly onto Vanessa. She
(36:07):
was molded in the concrete. They had to take the concrete.
Was her little body in the concrete. And like I said,
as I password speaking right now, they're just shipping away
concrete off of a body so they can do an
autopsy report without damaging other body parts, to see if
they can determine their cause of death. You know what
(36:29):
I'm going to say something that was never allowed for
me to say. The juries You can never under the
law put a jurar in the place in the shoes
of the crime victim. Think about it. Do you have
a mom, a daughter, sister. Vanessa was just twenty years old,
(36:53):
and now her body is found in a shallow grave
with concrete literally poured on to her skin to conceal
her identity. Sometimes I wonder is there justice? But I
pray to God that there will be justice for Vanessa.
(37:17):
Nancy Grace Crime's story, signing off good bye friend.
Host
Nancy Grace
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