July 28, 2020 • 37 mins
Crystal Rogers vanished five years ago. Now her family has been notified that possible human remains have been found near where she went missing. That location is her boyfriend's family farm. Has this missing mom of five been found?
Tip Line: Bardstown Police Tip Line 502-348-HEAT (4328)
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Ashley Willcott - Judge and trial attorney, Anchor on Court TV
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Beverly Hills
- Investigator Sheryl McCollum - Forensics Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder
- Dr. Kris Sperry - Former Chief Medical Examiner State of Georgia
- Fallon Glick - WDRB Louisville News Reporter
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace as we go to air
remains have been found? Are they the remains of a
gorgeous young mom just thirty five years old? Cracking a
five year old so called cold case. There's never been
an arrest. I Dancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank
(00:35):
you for being with us. First of all, take a
listen to our friends at WHAS eleven. According to the police,
the discovery was near the border of Nelson and Washington County.
Sources close to the case tell us it's a location
near where she was last seen alive in July of
twenty fifteen. Police say that they became aware of the
remains on Thursday and called in the FBI Evidence Response
(00:57):
Team on Friday due to the difficult to reach location.
Right now, those possible human remains are on the way
to the FBI lab in Quantico, Virginia for testing. We
keep hearing the word remains difficult to rain. FBI remains
sent to Quantico. Again, Thank you for being with us.
Has the case of missing Mom Crystal Rogers Finally big
(01:20):
crack joining me an all star panel to break you
down and put it back together again. Judge, trial lawyer,
anchor Court TV. Ashley Wilcot at Ashley Wilcott dot com.
Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalist, joining us from LA. You can
find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Director of
the Cold Case Research Institute, Crime scene expert Cheryl McCollum,
(01:43):
former Chief medical Examiner for the entire state of Georgia.
Doctor Chris Sperry, but first to Fallon Glick joining me
from w d RB, Louisville. Fallon, thank you for being
with us. You know, I noticed that they said law
enforcement became aware of the remains. How did they find
(02:04):
out about these human remains? Well, that still under wraps
by police right now. Everything involving the case with Crystal
Rogers is really tight lipped, and it has been since
day one. And that's I think what's really frustrating with
this case that you don't hear any information really ever
(02:27):
from police anytime they hear of remains or they do
a search. There's just very little information that is released
to the public. To Cheryl McCollum, founder and director of
the Coal Case Research Institute, Cheryl, thank you for being
with us. I don't quite know. With so much interest
in Crystal Rogers case, how the case quote went cold?
(02:50):
What does it tell you that we are learning the
police were quote made aware of the remains and now
the FBI is involved. It says somebody came upon something,
whether it was her remains or a clandestine grave, there
was somebody left into this place. From what I understand,
the terrain is very difficult to get to. What do
(03:11):
you mean why does everybody keep saying the terrain is difficult?
Is it heavily wooded? Is that mountainous? Is it down
a ravine? It looks like there's a there's a pretty
decent grave, probably a ninety degree angle, so you know,
getting to it with equipment would be difficult. Um, you know,
making sure that everything is gathered correctly. Again, you need
(03:35):
a team of people when the terrain is difficult to
In other words, it's not just like you drive up
and there's a you know, a body lay there on
the flat surface and you can work it easily. This
you're going to be at an angle. You know things
are not gonna you know, sit straight, and you know
they could possibly roll further down. So wherever the remains were,
it's difficult for law enforcement to work as a crime sing.
(03:59):
You know. Another I have with this is that it's
apparently five miles away from the last place she was seen,
and I'm very surprised that tracker dogs didn't find her,
especially if you take into light Doctor Bethany Marshall, Psycho
Alan's joining me out of Beverly Hills. Do you recall
on the Lacy Peterson case, tracker dogs actually tracked Lacy's
(04:20):
remains from her home in Modesto their own cavina all
the way to the San Francisco Bay, about a forty
minute drive, and tracker dogs followed her scent that far,
but not in this case. Do you remember that? I
remember that so clearly. Yes, the tracker dogs picked up
(04:43):
a scent, they followed the trail. And the fact that
in this case, this mom of five went missing and
they were not able to track her, and then there's
a shallow grave or or some kind of a grave.
Five wait, it's kind of shocking. I don't know the
(05:03):
science of tracker dogs, but it does make me wonder
a little bit about the investigation itself and the motivation
of the police department, and why this wasn't down a
little bit more thoroughly. We don't know what happened regarding
tracker dogs, but I do know this about the location.
There was a social media post by Nelson County Sheriff's office,
(05:23):
the state they quote become aware of possible human remains
near the border of Nelson and Washington Counties. We understand
the search was near Pascal Ballard Lake. Excuse me, Pascal
Ballard Lane. Joining me, Ashley Willcot, doctor Bethany Marshall, Cheryl McCollum,
(05:45):
doctor Chris Sperry, and Fallon Glick. Right now, take a
listen to what we are learning from w d RBS
Fallon Glick. The nightmares started over Fourth of July weekend
in twenty fifteen. Detectives say Chris Rogers, a mom of
five kids, was last seen on July third by her
boyfriend at the time, Brook's house. I was calling and
(06:07):
next thing and she wasn't answering and nobody could get
out whatever. Sherry Ballard, Crystal's mom, still remembers in vivid
detail the day she went to the police station to
report Crystal missing. I remember later on them telling me
what could be a year before we find any answers,
(06:28):
and I was just shocked. I'm like, there's no way.
I'm waiting a year to find my daughter. Little did
anyone know it would be much longer. When her car
was found abandoned on the Bluegrass Parkway with her belonging
still inside, it didn't offer any clues. Okay, we have
been asking and wondering about whether track or dogs were used,
(06:50):
and why they didn't come up with anything. Well, take
a listen to our friends, Shame McCallister. So, I can't
figure why she would walk away from the car and
leave the purse there when we took the bloodhounds up there.
I mean, they had her things that you provided us
for sin and they said it was as though she
was not even there. I can't explain that. I don't
(07:12):
understand what that means. I don't know why. If it's
her car and she leaves in at some time friday nn,
why does it appear to the dogs that she's not
even there. I agree with this. Same set of bloodhounds
tracked you all tracked her in the car from forty nine,
and they had never been to your arm's farm before,
(07:34):
tracked you as her scent all the way down forty nine,
turned on Balltown Road and turned on Pascal Ballard as
though they were following your car. So I know the
dog is not defective because they're following her sin and
they don't know where your mom is. They never visitary
for her, So the dog's nose is not defective. So
(07:54):
when the dog doesn't even try to find her on
the parkway where her car, it's just very hard to me.
And I can't figure out why they wouldn't find any
sense of her at all if she walked one way
or another. You are hearing Detective John Snow speaking and
he's explaining that the dogs, the tracker dogs, were taken
(08:18):
to Crystal Roger's car where it was left abandoned on
a parkway, but they picked up nothing. Crime Stories with
Nancy Grace for those of you just joining us, have
(08:44):
the remains of a mom of five finally been found,
cracking a five year old so called cold case. There's
never been an arrest, sumptions gossip that she quote ran away.
I never believed any of that at But why didn't
the dogs pick up her scent where these remains were found?
(09:07):
Why didn't the dogs pick up the scent near her
vehicle that was abandoned? You know, Cheryl McCallum, Director, Coal
Case Research Institute. I can think of a lot of
reasons the dogs did not pick up her scent where
her car was parked. Oh, I can think of one
major reason that detective does not believe she drove that
car there. She was believe that car. That's right, that
(09:27):
car was left there along with her person's cell phone,
and somebody deliberately flattened that tire as a staging mechanism
to make law enforce that believe. Oh my gosh, she
had tire trouble and somebody must have snatched her too.
Fallon Glick joining me from w d RB Louisville. Fallon,
what can you tell me? Let's start with the location
(09:50):
offer a vehicle and how it was found. So her
car was found off to the side on the Bluegrass Parkway,
kind of out of town. And what was really weird
according to family, is that they say Crystal had no
reason to be driving in that direction. She doesn't go
that way ever, So they thought it was first of all,
(10:11):
very strange that that car would be there. And from
day one they thought there's no way Crystal drove that car,
and there's no way she would have gotten out on
her own just leaving, and there's no way she wouldn't
have called her dad or another family member if if
she did in fact have a flat tire. They don't
(10:32):
believe for one minute that she was ever in that
car driving it to the Bluegrass Parkway where it was left.
Ashley Wilcott joining me judge and trial lawyer, Court TV
anchor at Ashley Wilcott dot com. Ashley, Clearly, in my mind,
the scene was staged. She wasn't the purse and the
cell phonem still in the car. Yep, that's my understanding
(10:52):
they were, And I think that the valid point and
the really thing to think about is that there were
no sense picked up by the dog. And staging a scene, right,
is what when somebody is involved in the disappearance of
a person happens. That's what they do to throw the
police off. As a matter of fact, Cheryl McCall, I'm
(11:12):
picking up on what Ashley Wilcott just said. I've never ever,
in all the cases I investigated, prosecuted, or covered, seen
a random killer stage the scene. They grab the person
to take off, they kill the person to take off,
They commit the burglary and leave, no staging, nothing, to
(11:36):
keep them at the scene, they have no reason to.
Staging only happens when you have some sort of connection
to the victim. Explain absolutely correct, Nancy. So if you
have a connection to the victim, then you have to
make an appear and though you were nowhere near them,
you don't know anything about it. So you do little
things again like her person's cell phone conveniently being left there,
(12:01):
a tire being saddened. If this was a stranger time,
if your goal is to kidnap somebody, you grab them
and you go, what are they doing with her while
they're flattening the tire and making sure her phone and
purse are visible? And just so easily, you know, seeing
as somebody going into the car. I mean, if you
(12:22):
don't have a flat tire, why in the world would
you get out of your car without your phone and leave?
The boyfriend is more than that. Yeah, you're the night.
It's in the middle of the night. He claims he
went to bed, she was in the bed with him,
and he wakes up she's not there. So you want
me now to believe that a mother of five, for
(12:42):
some odd reason, grabs her purseon's cell phone and drives
down a road she ain't never been on in the
middle of the night for no apparent reason, and has
a flat tire. Well. The disappearance of Crystal Rogers is
part of an even deeper mystery in the Artstown area.
You heard earlier Cheryl McCollum wondering why she didn't call
(13:07):
her dad. No, no, no, that was falling glick. Take
a listen to shay McAlister. Tommy and his grandson pull
onto the private property which butts up against the Bluegrass
Parkway at six fifty Trenton stands next to his papa
when a blast rings out. A single shot rips into
(13:29):
Tommy's chest. That single gunshot is heard across the fields,
splitting through the morning air. Casey's wife hears the gunshot
from their home. My son heard the gunshot, and I
remember Casey saying, dain't daddy already got a deer? I
mean they had just got out the truck. Tommy reaches
for Trenton and tells him he's been shot and to
start looking through his clothes for his phone. Tommy's trying
(13:52):
to speak, but he can't breathe. At six fifty five,
Sherry has fallen back to sleep, when her phone rings
and call me and I couldn't hardly understanding. He's like,
my mom, Peppo has been shot. I was panicking, you know,
I was trying to throw my clothes on and I
don't Trenton. I said, I'm gonna call nine one one.
I said, I will call Casey. And you know, I'm
(14:15):
scared because Trenton's there and I don't know what's going on.
She hangs up and frantically dials nine while getting dressed
and running to her car. So, after Crystal Rogers goes missing,
the one of the few people she could call for
help and that were intimately connected to her, her dad
suddenly is killed. But apparently a lot of people don't
(14:39):
see a connection. Listen to Bardstown, Kentucky State Police Trooper
Scotty Sharpe was a detective when Tommy was shot. He
arrived on the scene just before eight a m. We
came out and on Tommy Ballard. Of course, he was
shot on the edge of the Bluegrass Parkway. So we
(15:00):
have worked since that day diligently working all three cases
and working in cooperation with the Nelson Kenny Sheriff's Office.
In the disappearance of Crystal Rogers. Way, is there any
connection between Crystal and Tommy's cases, Well, right now, that's
still part of the investigation, so at first and ongoing,
(15:24):
apparently no connection made. Joining me right now, renowned medical examiner,
doctor Chris Sperry, Doctor Sperry, thank you for being with us.
You know, I remember and I remember discussing this case
with you at the time, prosecuting a high profile murder
case that involved an arson of a millionaire's wife. He lived,
(15:49):
she died, and she was covered in bruises. That's unusual
to die smoke inhalation and be covered in bruises, that said,
Doctor Sperry, That case really brought it home to me,
the true fact that medical examiners look at extrinsic evidence
(16:11):
when they determine cod and mod manner of death. For instance,
in that case, the medical examiner took into account that
all the husband's suits and dressues were removed from the home,
all of his family photos of his family and relatives
(16:32):
were removed from the home before the fire. About twenty
four hours before the fire, he checked the weather Network,
a call in resource, to find out if it would rain.
The day of the fire. He called his insurance before
the accidental fire to find out if the fire insurance
(16:57):
covered rental furniture after the house burned down, and then
lo and behole seventy two hours later the house burned down.
I mean, there's just so much circumstantial evidence, and the
medical examiner did look at that evidence when making a conclusion. Here,
you've got a young mom missing and then suddenly her
(17:18):
dad is shot dead. Would a medical examiner take that
into account? Oh? Absolutely, I mean there's there are no
coincidences really when it comes to deaths that occur in
a family, you know, close to close together, unless there's
some documentation someone dies in the hospital of the natural
(17:39):
disease or something like that. But a mysterious disappearance, you know,
followed by other family member being shot, that's incredibly suspicious.
(18:00):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace, guys were talking about human
remains that have just been found. Are they the remains
of a young mom of five? Crystal Rogers take a
lesson to whas Crystal and Brooks shared a home and
together had a son. The couple and their toddler were
(18:21):
together the last night Crystal was known to be alive. Supposedly,
they went to the farm and they walked back in
the field to feed the cows. My daughter's not going
to walk back in the field in the poorneil rain,
especially with her baby. I just don't see her doing that.
And then they left the farm and went back home,
(18:43):
and Brooks went to bed, and Crystal was still up
on her phone and Eli was running around playing, and
supposedly she was not there when he got up. She
was just gone gone. But Sherry ball says Brooks didn't
tell anyone his girlfriend was missing. Sherry didn't know her
(19:04):
daughter was missing until days later. And when it was
Sunday and she still hasn't called, I started panicking. Sherry
and her husband Tommy, rushed to the Nelson County Sheriff's
office to file a missing person's report. Okay, that's interesting
right there to you filing glig w d RB Louisville.
Who filed the missing person's report, That would be Sherry Ballard.
(19:29):
She ended up seeing Brooks howk in a parking lot
somewhere in town and had been talking to him wondering
where Crystal was and why hasn't she been calling her
back or answering any of her text messages? And she goes, well,
have you filed a police report? And he said no,
(19:49):
And then she goes, well, shouldn't you do that? And
he goes, well, maybe you should, and then she goes, well,
I'm going to go straight to the police department, and
that's what she did. I don't like that right there, doctor,
City Marshall, Psychoellens joining me out of LA that they
basically go t for tad on who's going to call
the police, Nancy. I don't like it one bit. Can
(20:09):
you imagine you're sleeping in bed with your spouse or
in this case, his girlfriend, mother of five children. You
wake up, she's gone. Not only is she gone, but
now you have five kids in your care and your charge,
who are asking for mommy? You know, mommy, mommy, mommy,
where's mommy? You're taking care of them, you're feeding them,
(20:31):
hopefully he was. But you're not wondering where the mother
of those five children is. I mean, maybe I'm she relaxed.
But whenever I see anything, I call nine one one.
I mean, I'm sure they've got me on record by now. Guys,
I want you to take a listen to our cut
five wha s. The mayor cited the reasons for the
(20:53):
termination include a phone call he made to his brother
warning him about an interview the sheriff's department planned to conduct.
He also failed polygraph exam and then refused to cooperate
for an interview with the Nelson County Sheriff's Department. Sheriff
Mattingly says he's not worthy of being a police officer.
He then made it very clear that he believes Rogers
is dead. Okay, since suddenly the brother of the boyfriend
(21:17):
is fired from the police department, what happened foulon glick.
So basically they brought in the Howe brothers for questioning.
That is the boyfriend that last saw her alive, and
his brother who's on the police department. Okay, what police
department was that the Bartstown Police department, Okay, and he
had been there for about eight and a half years
or so, the brother, Nick Howk, and they had brought
(21:41):
in Brooks Howk for questioning, and they also brought in
his brother, Nick Howe, the police officer. And during that
exchange of questioning and talking about his polygraph results which
he did not pass. He is very difficult, the brother
or the police officer, brother or the boyfriend, so Brooks
(22:02):
Howe's polygraph results came back inconclusive. That's the boyfriend, the boyfriend,
Nick how the brother, and the police officer. He did
not pass the polygraph test. Every time they asked him
a question about Crystal Rogers and her whereabouts. The investigator
said it spiked as a major lie, and the FBI said,
(22:25):
I'm no longer asking you if you know where Crystell is.
He goes, I know you know where she is based
off these results, the reason why he was fired. Cheryl McCollum.
That looks really bad, but we know the police officer
brother apparently called the boyfriend and said, hey, they want
(22:45):
to interview you. Is that grounds for firing someone? Cheryl
McCollum absolutely, I mean to me, it's the standard procedure
in a police department. Is conduct you unbecoming if you
do anything where you're you know, harmon an investigation, trying
to you know, make something look like it's not forthcoming.
(23:09):
If you're not honest, of course they can argue for that.
There's more to meet to this than anything. Remember her
car that's abandoned on that road in the middle of nowhere.
Whoever drove that car had to have a way to
get home. So now you have a brother involved who's lying.
Perhaps that's how somebody got home. There was another car involved.
(23:33):
It seems as if the plot is thickening, and in
the last hours we learn remains have been found about
five miles from where Crystal Rogers was last seen alive
to ye found and glick w d RB, Louisville, where
her five children been while mommy's been gone. Well, the
youngest child, who is the child of Broth, Crystal and Brooks,
(23:59):
he's been in custody of Brooks house this whole time,
and then her other children have been staying with Crystal's mom,
Sherry Ballard. Mmmmmm okay, guys, I want you to hear
from Shane McCallister Brooks how interview with detectives. Listen, he
(24:20):
had a little fire win with that after etipy Walker,
before Egypi Walker. I know we fed the callis first
because I want to do that as quickly where we
had still plenty of anyway. I don't know if I
lived the fire before we walked back here. When I
got back, I could have done it either where I
don't remember. After the fire and with their toddler and toe.
Brooks says, he and Crystal take a walk, doesn't to me,
(24:43):
And I've got a couple of kids, you know, but
everybody parents a little differently. To me. It seems a
little late to be got on the farm with the
two and a half year whereas he had at midnight,
as he has, he'd been asleep in the car for
a while, as he staid while opening a hill form anybody,
he's used so used to sleep and so later in
the morning his normal day. It's his seven eight o'clock
(25:05):
in the evening, really eleven, because she sleeps much later
in the morning. She stays up. So yeah, it's always
been that way to midnight. He's wow, did you go
straight home on Friday night? Or did y'all stop somewhere
or because I'm thinking that that's their normal seven eight
(25:26):
o'clock in the evening, it might be dinner time. Did
you stop and eat something or did you go straight home?
We did not eat anything. I want it straight home. Okay,
So he went straight home. So if we assume that
he's correct, in about ten minutes after midnight, okay, you
are hearing the boyfriend Brooks Huck speaking to detect his
(25:47):
brooks Out and you know Selon would call him. You
and I've lived through a lot of trials together. I
would be playing that first, I do emotion before trial,
to allow it before the jury. I would try every
way I could to play that in the opening statement.
That might be difficult because something has to be entered
(26:08):
into evidence before you can show it or played for
the jury. But right there, hopefully i'd have a jury
full of moms and dads. It's the last thing you
want to have your two and a half year old
up at midnight, because you know what that means. You're
up at midnight. That's what that means. Now true, Cheryl,
As you will know, John, David and I and Lucy
(26:32):
being dragged along, have stayed up all summer every night
watching Kung Fu movies till one thirty or two o'clock
in the morning. But for a two year old, that's
a whole nother thing, Cheryl, I would play that first
chance I got to a jury. Of course, let me
point out the boyfriend brooks Out says he's innocent. What
about that statement, Cheryl McCallum, Oh, I think you would
(26:56):
play that up. I think you would play the fact
that his brother and wouldn't pass up, couldn't pass a polygraph.
I think you would also do what you did so
well and so beautifully, Nancy is basically you would explain
to a jury people are commonly murdered for only three reasons. Sex, money,
(27:17):
and revenge. That's it. So in this situation, if the
remains show that she was not sexually assaulted, clearly her
car wasn't taken, her phone wasn't taken, her purse wasn't taken,
So money wasn't the motive that leaves us with revenge
(27:45):
crime stories With Nancy Grace, Guys, we are talking about
the remains just found in a remote area we believe
down a ravine. Are they the remains of Crystal Rogers?
Now Rodgers was last seen, this young mother of five,
she just turned thirty five, about five miles away from
(28:07):
where the remains are found. And you know, doctor Chris Sperry,
former chief medical Examiner for the entire state of Georgia.
If it's not her, I'd like to find out who
it is. Do we have another missing person, another missing
female that happened to be five miles and where Crystal
was last seen alive? Doctor Chris Sperry. Let's assume it's
(28:29):
a heavily wooded area. It may or may not be
the remains in a shallow grave at this juncture, several
years after she goes missing. How do you expect what
condition do you believe those remains would be in, doctor
Sperry skeletonized, That is, all of the soft tissues would
(28:52):
be gone, and actually the bones would be very dry.
It takes about a year after a body starts decomposed
before they lose the oily, greasy feeling from just decomposing
fat material. After that, they're dry, and they would be
scattered over an area, sometimes a large area because of
(29:15):
animal activity. Coyotes, raccoons, possums, all sorts of different animals
that will eat anything. They're just foragers that will eat
the dead human just like they would a dead deer.
But they tend to drag pieces off and they're scattered
all around, So it would be fairly a large search area.
(29:37):
It could be easily one hundred yards two hundred yards
in diameter. I was just thinking about the way that
that just rolled off the tip of your tongues. Berry well,
about animals taking chunks of a human body, and running
away with it. Well, or do you ever hear yourself? Well,
of course we're just we're just, you know, we just
happen to inhabit a portion of the food chain that
(29:59):
then you know, we think we're at the top of
the food chain, but we're really not. Well, who do
you think is oh? I think well anything. I hate
to cross example my any witness, but you put it
out there. Do you think at the top of the
food chain? Who I think is at the top of
the food chain? Oh, lions, tigers, you know. I mean,
we're lucky that we can catch them, but people, do
(30:20):
you know they're in the cages right, yeah, in the cages.
But if you if you put yourself face to face
food one, you know who will probably would? Yeah, you're
right about that, doctor Sperry. I would love to continue
cross examining you on that, but let me move forward
with the fact that remains have just been found the
Barstown Police tip line five zero two three four eight
(30:42):
heat five or two three four eight four three two eight.
You know, uh, Fan and glick, it's been a long
time coming. I'm trying to figure out how they quote
became aware of remains. If the remains are down a
re en or if they're in a shallow grave. We
(31:03):
know tracker dogs didn't tell police, So who possibly could
have tipped police off about this location? Well, a lot
of times when remains are found in the area, and
that sounds weird to say, because there are remains that
are found in and around Nelson County, but seems to
be quite often. But it's usually just a random person
(31:28):
that comes upon these remains. Maybe they're out hiking or
walking or kayaking or something, and that's typically how remains
are typically found in this area. Crystal Rogers goes missing
July three, two and fifteen, last seen in the company
of her boyfriend brooks How. They have a little boy together.
The little boy is currently with his bio dad. His
(31:51):
four siblings are with her mother. What happened to Crystal
Rogers in the last hours. Remains have been found five
miles away from where Crystal was last alive. Take a
listen to brook How speaking to Detective John Snow, I
probably I probably woke up around you know, in between
(32:11):
that time May six or seven o'clock and then I left.
You know, I got give my normal thing, put you know,
change my clothes, putting my clothes on and and uh
and headed out, you know shortly after that, you know.
So you get up in twenty six and seven, and
where's Eli at when you wake up? He's next to me.
He's in the bed with you. M okay, so you
(32:35):
get up, just he get up with you. He's still
he's still sleep on ever where I whenever I get up,
But I go to uh, you know, the bathroom and
all that kind of stuff, and he's still sleeping, sleeping
there on the bed. But Crystal isn't there when he
gets out. Yes, I noticed, I mean I noticed that
she wasn't there. I didn't know what was I didn't
(32:55):
know exactly what too they. I don't know what time
I called her, Yes, I called her that morning. Brooks
takes his son to the farm, but his lack of
concern for Crystal's whereabouts gives the detective pause, and he
probes on a Saturday morning, and my wife wasn't with
me in the mid as is normal. If she were not,
(33:16):
probably the first thing I would do would be hard
or find out where she was. He's absolutely right, you
are actually hearing the boyfriend Brooks hout Age thirty eight,
speaking to the detective about the morning Crystal Roger seemingly disappeared.
To ask you, Wilcot judge and trial lawyer, court TV anchor,
you can find her, asked you Wilcott dot com. Do
(33:38):
you remember the case of Susan Powell? Remember her husband,
Josh Powell takes her and the little boys. Wait, no,
he says, he just takes the little boys, tiny tiny
boys out to go camping at midnight and literally freezing temperatures.
(34:03):
And coincidentally, that's the night Susan Powell goes missing, never
to be seen again. Her body has never been found.
And when the little boys are asked what happened to mommy,
they drew a picture of Mommy inside daddy's car trunk.
Dis reminds me of that, Ashley, because he's saying, at midnight,
(34:25):
they decide to go take their little boy, they're two
year old, for a walk. Yeah, it doesn't pass the
smell test. I also want to talk about people who disappear.
A people don't just disappear. Be Statistically, those who choose
to run away are not mothers. Specifically, of five children
and a two year old taking a walk at midnight,
(34:47):
none of that passed the smell test, and the reality
is a mother of five children doesn't just disappear. Guys
were talking, You have a question jup in do we well?
I keep wondering about the boyfriend. He wakes up, his
wife's not in bed. He says they were out at
midnight with a two year old, which obviously it's not true.
(35:08):
But do we know if he was dating somebody or
having an affair. There seems like such lack of details
around her disappearance and what was happening in the relationship
at the time. What do we know w d RB,
What do we know about the state of their relationship?
(35:28):
So at the end of their relationship in terms of
her going missing, Crystel's mom, Sherry Ballard, actually had a
conversation with her in their driveway right before she went missing,
and Cristel had said that she was going to leave him,
and she has all his tax information and it's hidden
(35:51):
in a box somewhere, and Sherry never asked any follow
up questions because she thought it was very strange. And
that's one thing that Harry regrets to this day is
not asking more questions about that one little thing that
Crystal had said. And so that raises suspicion in the
family because it just came out of the blue and
(36:14):
Crystal was saying it. Also, I want to point out
that shortly after Crystal disappeared, Brooks how started dating another
woman whose name is also Crystal, who is also a
blonde woman, and they have some similarities. Is she missing?
She is not missing. They are still together. Okay at
(36:34):
this juncture, are fouling lick w d RB. What is
the status? Are we waiting to find out the autopsy
results and whether this body can be identified as Crystal Rogers. Yes,
we are waiting on that information to get all the
details from the lab and Quantico back to us here
(36:55):
in Barstown. Police say they're not going to release any
further in until that comes back. And family has also
being very very tight lipped right now. They're asking for
respect to the family and they just basically want to
not talk right now. Up until now, this was a
(37:16):
quote no body case. Has it all changed? We wait
as just as unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off
Goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace as we go to air
remains have been found? Are they the remains of a
gorgeous young mom just thirty five years old? Cracking a
five year old so called cold case. There's never been
an arrest. I Dancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank
(00:35):
you for being with us. First of all, take a
listen to our friends at WHAS eleven. According to the police,
the discovery was near the border of Nelson and Washington County.
Sources close to the case tell us it's a location
near where she was last seen alive in July of
twenty fifteen. Police say that they became aware of the
remains on Thursday and called in the FBI Evidence Response
(00:57):
Team on Friday due to the difficult to reach location.
Right now, those possible human remains are on the way
to the FBI lab in Quantico, Virginia for testing. We
keep hearing the word remains difficult to rain. FBI remains
sent to Quantico. Again, Thank you for being with us.
Has the case of missing Mom Crystal Rogers Finally big
(01:20):
crack joining me an all star panel to break you
down and put it back together again. Judge, trial lawyer,
anchor Court TV. Ashley Wilcot at Ashley Wilcott dot com.
Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalist, joining us from LA. You can
find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Director of
the Cold Case Research Institute, Crime scene expert Cheryl McCollum,
(01:43):
former Chief medical Examiner for the entire state of Georgia.
Doctor Chris Sperry, but first to Fallon Glick joining me
from w d RB, Louisville. Fallon, thank you for being
with us. You know, I noticed that they said law
enforcement became aware of the remains. How did they find
(02:04):
out about these human remains? Well, that still under wraps
by police right now. Everything involving the case with Crystal
Rogers is really tight lipped, and it has been since
day one. And that's I think what's really frustrating with
this case that you don't hear any information really ever
(02:27):
from police anytime they hear of remains or they do
a search. There's just very little information that is released
to the public. To Cheryl McCollum, founder and director of
the Coal Case Research Institute, Cheryl, thank you for being
with us. I don't quite know. With so much interest
in Crystal Rogers case, how the case quote went cold?
(02:50):
What does it tell you that we are learning the
police were quote made aware of the remains and now
the FBI is involved. It says somebody came upon something,
whether it was her remains or a clandestine grave, there
was somebody left into this place. From what I understand,
the terrain is very difficult to get to. What do
(03:11):
you mean why does everybody keep saying the terrain is difficult?
Is it heavily wooded? Is that mountainous? Is it down
a ravine? It looks like there's a there's a pretty
decent grave, probably a ninety degree angle, so you know,
getting to it with equipment would be difficult. Um, you know,
making sure that everything is gathered correctly. Again, you need
(03:35):
a team of people when the terrain is difficult to
In other words, it's not just like you drive up
and there's a you know, a body lay there on
the flat surface and you can work it easily. This
you're going to be at an angle. You know things
are not gonna you know, sit straight, and you know
they could possibly roll further down. So wherever the remains were,
it's difficult for law enforcement to work as a crime sing.
(03:59):
You know. Another I have with this is that it's
apparently five miles away from the last place she was seen,
and I'm very surprised that tracker dogs didn't find her,
especially if you take into light Doctor Bethany Marshall, Psycho
Alan's joining me out of Beverly Hills. Do you recall
on the Lacy Peterson case, tracker dogs actually tracked Lacy's
(04:20):
remains from her home in Modesto their own cavina all
the way to the San Francisco Bay, about a forty
minute drive, and tracker dogs followed her scent that far,
but not in this case. Do you remember that? I
remember that so clearly. Yes, the tracker dogs picked up
(04:43):
a scent, they followed the trail. And the fact that
in this case, this mom of five went missing and
they were not able to track her, and then there's
a shallow grave or or some kind of a grave.
Five wait, it's kind of shocking. I don't know the
(05:03):
science of tracker dogs, but it does make me wonder
a little bit about the investigation itself and the motivation
of the police department, and why this wasn't down a
little bit more thoroughly. We don't know what happened regarding
tracker dogs, but I do know this about the location.
There was a social media post by Nelson County Sheriff's office,
(05:23):
the state they quote become aware of possible human remains
near the border of Nelson and Washington Counties. We understand
the search was near Pascal Ballard Lake. Excuse me, Pascal
Ballard Lane. Joining me, Ashley Willcot, doctor Bethany Marshall, Cheryl McCollum,
(05:45):
doctor Chris Sperry, and Fallon Glick. Right now, take a
listen to what we are learning from w d RBS
Fallon Glick. The nightmares started over Fourth of July weekend
in twenty fifteen. Detectives say Chris Rogers, a mom of
five kids, was last seen on July third by her
boyfriend at the time, Brook's house. I was calling and
(06:07):
next thing and she wasn't answering and nobody could get
out whatever. Sherry Ballard, Crystal's mom, still remembers in vivid
detail the day she went to the police station to
report Crystal missing. I remember later on them telling me
what could be a year before we find any answers,
(06:28):
and I was just shocked. I'm like, there's no way.
I'm waiting a year to find my daughter. Little did
anyone know it would be much longer. When her car
was found abandoned on the Bluegrass Parkway with her belonging
still inside, it didn't offer any clues. Okay, we have
been asking and wondering about whether track or dogs were used,
(06:50):
and why they didn't come up with anything. Well, take
a listen to our friends, Shame McCallister. So, I can't
figure why she would walk away from the car and
leave the purse there when we took the bloodhounds up there.
I mean, they had her things that you provided us
for sin and they said it was as though she
was not even there. I can't explain that. I don't
(07:12):
understand what that means. I don't know why. If it's
her car and she leaves in at some time friday nn,
why does it appear to the dogs that she's not
even there. I agree with this. Same set of bloodhounds
tracked you all tracked her in the car from forty nine,
and they had never been to your arm's farm before,
(07:34):
tracked you as her scent all the way down forty nine,
turned on Balltown Road and turned on Pascal Ballard as
though they were following your car. So I know the
dog is not defective because they're following her sin and
they don't know where your mom is. They never visitary
for her, So the dog's nose is not defective. So
(07:54):
when the dog doesn't even try to find her on
the parkway where her car, it's just very hard to me.
And I can't figure out why they wouldn't find any
sense of her at all if she walked one way
or another. You are hearing Detective John Snow speaking and
he's explaining that the dogs, the tracker dogs, were taken
(08:18):
to Crystal Roger's car where it was left abandoned on
a parkway, but they picked up nothing. Crime Stories with
Nancy Grace for those of you just joining us, have
(08:44):
the remains of a mom of five finally been found,
cracking a five year old so called cold case. There's
never been an arrest, sumptions gossip that she quote ran away.
I never believed any of that at But why didn't
the dogs pick up her scent where these remains were found?
(09:07):
Why didn't the dogs pick up the scent near her
vehicle that was abandoned? You know, Cheryl McCallum, Director, Coal
Case Research Institute. I can think of a lot of
reasons the dogs did not pick up her scent where
her car was parked. Oh, I can think of one
major reason that detective does not believe she drove that
car there. She was believe that car. That's right, that
(09:27):
car was left there along with her person's cell phone,
and somebody deliberately flattened that tire as a staging mechanism
to make law enforce that believe. Oh my gosh, she
had tire trouble and somebody must have snatched her too.
Fallon Glick joining me from w d RB Louisville. Fallon,
what can you tell me? Let's start with the location
(09:50):
offer a vehicle and how it was found. So her
car was found off to the side on the Bluegrass Parkway,
kind of out of town. And what was really weird
according to family, is that they say Crystal had no
reason to be driving in that direction. She doesn't go
that way ever, So they thought it was first of all,
(10:11):
very strange that that car would be there. And from
day one they thought there's no way Crystal drove that car,
and there's no way she would have gotten out on
her own just leaving, and there's no way she wouldn't
have called her dad or another family member if if
she did in fact have a flat tire. They don't
(10:32):
believe for one minute that she was ever in that
car driving it to the Bluegrass Parkway where it was left.
Ashley Wilcott joining me judge and trial lawyer, Court TV
anchor at Ashley Wilcott dot com. Ashley, Clearly, in my mind,
the scene was staged. She wasn't the purse and the
cell phonem still in the car. Yep, that's my understanding
(10:52):
they were, And I think that the valid point and
the really thing to think about is that there were
no sense picked up by the dog. And staging a scene, right,
is what when somebody is involved in the disappearance of
a person happens. That's what they do to throw the
police off. As a matter of fact, Cheryl McCall, I'm
(11:12):
picking up on what Ashley Wilcott just said. I've never ever,
in all the cases I investigated, prosecuted, or covered, seen
a random killer stage the scene. They grab the person
to take off, they kill the person to take off,
They commit the burglary and leave, no staging, nothing, to
(11:36):
keep them at the scene, they have no reason to.
Staging only happens when you have some sort of connection
to the victim. Explain absolutely correct, Nancy. So if you
have a connection to the victim, then you have to
make an appear and though you were nowhere near them,
you don't know anything about it. So you do little
things again like her person's cell phone conveniently being left there,
(12:01):
a tire being saddened. If this was a stranger time,
if your goal is to kidnap somebody, you grab them
and you go, what are they doing with her while
they're flattening the tire and making sure her phone and
purse are visible? And just so easily, you know, seeing
as somebody going into the car. I mean, if you
(12:22):
don't have a flat tire, why in the world would
you get out of your car without your phone and leave?
The boyfriend is more than that. Yeah, you're the night.
It's in the middle of the night. He claims he
went to bed, she was in the bed with him,
and he wakes up she's not there. So you want
me now to believe that a mother of five, for
(12:42):
some odd reason, grabs her purseon's cell phone and drives
down a road she ain't never been on in the
middle of the night for no apparent reason, and has
a flat tire. Well. The disappearance of Crystal Rogers is
part of an even deeper mystery in the Artstown area.
You heard earlier Cheryl McCollum wondering why she didn't call
(13:07):
her dad. No, no, no, that was falling glick. Take
a listen to shay McAlister. Tommy and his grandson pull
onto the private property which butts up against the Bluegrass
Parkway at six fifty Trenton stands next to his papa
when a blast rings out. A single shot rips into
(13:29):
Tommy's chest. That single gunshot is heard across the fields,
splitting through the morning air. Casey's wife hears the gunshot
from their home. My son heard the gunshot, and I
remember Casey saying, dain't daddy already got a deer? I
mean they had just got out the truck. Tommy reaches
for Trenton and tells him he's been shot and to
start looking through his clothes for his phone. Tommy's trying
(13:52):
to speak, but he can't breathe. At six fifty five,
Sherry has fallen back to sleep, when her phone rings
and call me and I couldn't hardly understanding. He's like,
my mom, Peppo has been shot. I was panicking, you know,
I was trying to throw my clothes on and I
don't Trenton. I said, I'm gonna call nine one one.
I said, I will call Casey. And you know, I'm
(14:15):
scared because Trenton's there and I don't know what's going on.
She hangs up and frantically dials nine while getting dressed
and running to her car. So, after Crystal Rogers goes missing,
the one of the few people she could call for
help and that were intimately connected to her, her dad
suddenly is killed. But apparently a lot of people don't
(14:39):
see a connection. Listen to Bardstown, Kentucky State Police Trooper
Scotty Sharpe was a detective when Tommy was shot. He
arrived on the scene just before eight a m. We
came out and on Tommy Ballard. Of course, he was
shot on the edge of the Bluegrass Parkway. So we
(15:00):
have worked since that day diligently working all three cases
and working in cooperation with the Nelson Kenny Sheriff's Office.
In the disappearance of Crystal Rogers. Way, is there any
connection between Crystal and Tommy's cases, Well, right now, that's
still part of the investigation, so at first and ongoing,
(15:24):
apparently no connection made. Joining me right now, renowned medical examiner,
doctor Chris Sperry, Doctor Sperry, thank you for being with us.
You know, I remember and I remember discussing this case
with you at the time, prosecuting a high profile murder
case that involved an arson of a millionaire's wife. He lived,
(15:49):
she died, and she was covered in bruises. That's unusual
to die smoke inhalation and be covered in bruises, that said,
Doctor Sperry, That case really brought it home to me,
the true fact that medical examiners look at extrinsic evidence
(16:11):
when they determine cod and mod manner of death. For instance,
in that case, the medical examiner took into account that
all the husband's suits and dressues were removed from the home,
all of his family photos of his family and relatives
(16:32):
were removed from the home before the fire. About twenty
four hours before the fire, he checked the weather Network,
a call in resource, to find out if it would rain.
The day of the fire. He called his insurance before
the accidental fire to find out if the fire insurance
(16:57):
covered rental furniture after the house burned down, and then
lo and behole seventy two hours later the house burned down.
I mean, there's just so much circumstantial evidence, and the
medical examiner did look at that evidence when making a conclusion. Here,
you've got a young mom missing and then suddenly her
(17:18):
dad is shot dead. Would a medical examiner take that
into account? Oh? Absolutely, I mean there's there are no
coincidences really when it comes to deaths that occur in
a family, you know, close to close together, unless there's
some documentation someone dies in the hospital of the natural
(17:39):
disease or something like that. But a mysterious disappearance, you know,
followed by other family member being shot, that's incredibly suspicious.
(18:00):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace, guys were talking about human
remains that have just been found. Are they the remains
of a young mom of five? Crystal Rogers take a
lesson to whas Crystal and Brooks shared a home and
together had a son. The couple and their toddler were
(18:21):
together the last night Crystal was known to be alive. Supposedly,
they went to the farm and they walked back in
the field to feed the cows. My daughter's not going
to walk back in the field in the poorneil rain,
especially with her baby. I just don't see her doing that.
And then they left the farm and went back home,
(18:43):
and Brooks went to bed, and Crystal was still up
on her phone and Eli was running around playing, and
supposedly she was not there when he got up. She
was just gone gone. But Sherry ball says Brooks didn't
tell anyone his girlfriend was missing. Sherry didn't know her
(19:04):
daughter was missing until days later. And when it was
Sunday and she still hasn't called, I started panicking. Sherry
and her husband Tommy, rushed to the Nelson County Sheriff's
office to file a missing person's report. Okay, that's interesting
right there to you filing glig w d RB Louisville.
Who filed the missing person's report, That would be Sherry Ballard.
(19:29):
She ended up seeing Brooks howk in a parking lot
somewhere in town and had been talking to him wondering
where Crystal was and why hasn't she been calling her
back or answering any of her text messages? And she goes, well,
have you filed a police report? And he said no,
(19:49):
And then she goes, well, shouldn't you do that? And
he goes, well, maybe you should, and then she goes, well,
I'm going to go straight to the police department, and
that's what she did. I don't like that right there, doctor,
City Marshall, Psychoellens joining me out of LA that they
basically go t for tad on who's going to call
the police, Nancy. I don't like it one bit. Can
(20:09):
you imagine you're sleeping in bed with your spouse or
in this case, his girlfriend, mother of five children. You
wake up, she's gone. Not only is she gone, but
now you have five kids in your care and your charge,
who are asking for mommy? You know, mommy, mommy, mommy,
where's mommy? You're taking care of them, you're feeding them,
(20:31):
hopefully he was. But you're not wondering where the mother
of those five children is. I mean, maybe I'm she relaxed.
But whenever I see anything, I call nine one one.
I mean, I'm sure they've got me on record by now. Guys,
I want you to take a listen to our cut
five wha s. The mayor cited the reasons for the
(20:53):
termination include a phone call he made to his brother
warning him about an interview the sheriff's department planned to conduct.
He also failed polygraph exam and then refused to cooperate
for an interview with the Nelson County Sheriff's Department. Sheriff
Mattingly says he's not worthy of being a police officer.
He then made it very clear that he believes Rogers
is dead. Okay, since suddenly the brother of the boyfriend
(21:17):
is fired from the police department, what happened foulon glick.
So basically they brought in the Howe brothers for questioning.
That is the boyfriend that last saw her alive, and
his brother who's on the police department. Okay, what police
department was that the Bartstown Police department, Okay, and he
had been there for about eight and a half years
or so, the brother, Nick Howk, and they had brought
(21:41):
in Brooks Howk for questioning, and they also brought in
his brother, Nick Howe, the police officer. And during that
exchange of questioning and talking about his polygraph results which
he did not pass. He is very difficult, the brother
or the police officer, brother or the boyfriend, so Brooks
(22:02):
Howe's polygraph results came back inconclusive. That's the boyfriend, the boyfriend,
Nick how the brother, and the police officer. He did
not pass the polygraph test. Every time they asked him
a question about Crystal Rogers and her whereabouts. The investigator
said it spiked as a major lie, and the FBI said,
(22:25):
I'm no longer asking you if you know where Crystell is.
He goes, I know you know where she is based
off these results, the reason why he was fired. Cheryl McCollum.
That looks really bad, but we know the police officer
brother apparently called the boyfriend and said, hey, they want
(22:45):
to interview you. Is that grounds for firing someone? Cheryl
McCollum absolutely, I mean to me, it's the standard procedure
in a police department. Is conduct you unbecoming if you
do anything where you're you know, harmon an investigation, trying
to you know, make something look like it's not forthcoming.
(23:09):
If you're not honest, of course they can argue for that.
There's more to meet to this than anything. Remember her
car that's abandoned on that road in the middle of nowhere.
Whoever drove that car had to have a way to
get home. So now you have a brother involved who's lying.
Perhaps that's how somebody got home. There was another car involved.
(23:33):
It seems as if the plot is thickening, and in
the last hours we learn remains have been found about
five miles from where Crystal Rogers was last seen alive
to ye found and glick w d RB, Louisville, where
her five children been while mommy's been gone. Well, the
youngest child, who is the child of Broth, Crystal and Brooks,
(23:59):
he's been in custody of Brooks house this whole time,
and then her other children have been staying with Crystal's mom,
Sherry Ballard. Mmmmmm okay, guys, I want you to hear
from Shane McCallister Brooks how interview with detectives. Listen, he
(24:20):
had a little fire win with that after etipy Walker,
before Egypi Walker. I know we fed the callis first
because I want to do that as quickly where we
had still plenty of anyway. I don't know if I
lived the fire before we walked back here. When I
got back, I could have done it either where I
don't remember. After the fire and with their toddler and toe.
Brooks says, he and Crystal take a walk, doesn't to me,
(24:43):
And I've got a couple of kids, you know, but
everybody parents a little differently. To me. It seems a
little late to be got on the farm with the
two and a half year whereas he had at midnight,
as he has, he'd been asleep in the car for
a while, as he staid while opening a hill form anybody,
he's used so used to sleep and so later in
the morning his normal day. It's his seven eight o'clock
(25:05):
in the evening, really eleven, because she sleeps much later
in the morning. She stays up. So yeah, it's always
been that way to midnight. He's wow, did you go
straight home on Friday night? Or did y'all stop somewhere
or because I'm thinking that that's their normal seven eight
(25:26):
o'clock in the evening, it might be dinner time. Did
you stop and eat something or did you go straight home?
We did not eat anything. I want it straight home. Okay,
So he went straight home. So if we assume that
he's correct, in about ten minutes after midnight, okay, you
are hearing the boyfriend Brooks Huck speaking to detect his
(25:47):
brooks Out and you know Selon would call him. You
and I've lived through a lot of trials together. I
would be playing that first, I do emotion before trial,
to allow it before the jury. I would try every
way I could to play that in the opening statement.
That might be difficult because something has to be entered
(26:08):
into evidence before you can show it or played for
the jury. But right there, hopefully i'd have a jury
full of moms and dads. It's the last thing you
want to have your two and a half year old
up at midnight, because you know what that means. You're
up at midnight. That's what that means. Now true, Cheryl,
As you will know, John, David and I and Lucy
(26:32):
being dragged along, have stayed up all summer every night
watching Kung Fu movies till one thirty or two o'clock
in the morning. But for a two year old, that's
a whole nother thing, Cheryl, I would play that first
chance I got to a jury. Of course, let me
point out the boyfriend brooks Out says he's innocent. What
about that statement, Cheryl McCallum, Oh, I think you would
(26:56):
play that up. I think you would play the fact
that his brother and wouldn't pass up, couldn't pass a polygraph.
I think you would also do what you did so
well and so beautifully, Nancy is basically you would explain
to a jury people are commonly murdered for only three reasons. Sex, money,
(27:17):
and revenge. That's it. So in this situation, if the
remains show that she was not sexually assaulted, clearly her
car wasn't taken, her phone wasn't taken, her purse wasn't taken,
So money wasn't the motive that leaves us with revenge
(27:45):
crime stories With Nancy Grace, Guys, we are talking about
the remains just found in a remote area we believe
down a ravine. Are they the remains of Crystal Rogers?
Now Rodgers was last seen, this young mother of five,
she just turned thirty five, about five miles away from
(28:07):
where the remains are found. And you know, doctor Chris Sperry,
former chief medical Examiner for the entire state of Georgia.
If it's not her, I'd like to find out who
it is. Do we have another missing person, another missing
female that happened to be five miles and where Crystal
was last seen alive? Doctor Chris Sperry. Let's assume it's
(28:29):
a heavily wooded area. It may or may not be
the remains in a shallow grave at this juncture, several
years after she goes missing. How do you expect what
condition do you believe those remains would be in, doctor
Sperry skeletonized, That is, all of the soft tissues would
(28:52):
be gone, and actually the bones would be very dry.
It takes about a year after a body starts decomposed
before they lose the oily, greasy feeling from just decomposing
fat material. After that, they're dry, and they would be
scattered over an area, sometimes a large area because of
(29:15):
animal activity. Coyotes, raccoons, possums, all sorts of different animals
that will eat anything. They're just foragers that will eat
the dead human just like they would a dead deer.
But they tend to drag pieces off and they're scattered
all around, So it would be fairly a large search area.
(29:37):
It could be easily one hundred yards two hundred yards
in diameter. I was just thinking about the way that
that just rolled off the tip of your tongues. Berry well,
about animals taking chunks of a human body, and running
away with it. Well, or do you ever hear yourself? Well,
of course we're just we're just, you know, we just
happen to inhabit a portion of the food chain that
(29:59):
then you know, we think we're at the top of
the food chain, but we're really not. Well, who do
you think is oh? I think well anything. I hate
to cross example my any witness, but you put it
out there. Do you think at the top of the
food chain? Who I think is at the top of
the food chain? Oh, lions, tigers, you know. I mean,
we're lucky that we can catch them, but people, do
(30:20):
you know they're in the cages right, yeah, in the cages.
But if you if you put yourself face to face
food one, you know who will probably would? Yeah, you're
right about that, doctor Sperry. I would love to continue
cross examining you on that, but let me move forward
with the fact that remains have just been found the
Barstown Police tip line five zero two three four eight
(30:42):
heat five or two three four eight four three two eight.
You know, uh, Fan and glick, it's been a long
time coming. I'm trying to figure out how they quote
became aware of remains. If the remains are down a
re en or if they're in a shallow grave. We
(31:03):
know tracker dogs didn't tell police, So who possibly could
have tipped police off about this location? Well, a lot
of times when remains are found in the area, and
that sounds weird to say, because there are remains that
are found in and around Nelson County, but seems to
be quite often. But it's usually just a random person
(31:28):
that comes upon these remains. Maybe they're out hiking or
walking or kayaking or something, and that's typically how remains
are typically found in this area. Crystal Rogers goes missing
July three, two and fifteen, last seen in the company
of her boyfriend brooks How. They have a little boy together.
The little boy is currently with his bio dad. His
(31:51):
four siblings are with her mother. What happened to Crystal
Rogers in the last hours. Remains have been found five
miles away from where Crystal was last alive. Take a
listen to brook How speaking to Detective John Snow, I
probably I probably woke up around you know, in between
(32:11):
that time May six or seven o'clock and then I left.
You know, I got give my normal thing, put you know,
change my clothes, putting my clothes on and and uh
and headed out, you know shortly after that, you know.
So you get up in twenty six and seven, and
where's Eli at when you wake up? He's next to me.
He's in the bed with you. M okay, so you
(32:35):
get up, just he get up with you. He's still
he's still sleep on ever where I whenever I get up,
But I go to uh, you know, the bathroom and
all that kind of stuff, and he's still sleeping, sleeping
there on the bed. But Crystal isn't there when he
gets out. Yes, I noticed, I mean I noticed that
she wasn't there. I didn't know what was I didn't
(32:55):
know exactly what too they. I don't know what time
I called her, Yes, I called her that morning. Brooks
takes his son to the farm, but his lack of
concern for Crystal's whereabouts gives the detective pause, and he
probes on a Saturday morning, and my wife wasn't with
me in the mid as is normal. If she were not,
(33:16):
probably the first thing I would do would be hard
or find out where she was. He's absolutely right, you
are actually hearing the boyfriend Brooks hout Age thirty eight,
speaking to the detective about the morning Crystal Roger seemingly disappeared.
To ask you, Wilcot judge and trial lawyer, court TV anchor,
you can find her, asked you Wilcott dot com. Do
(33:38):
you remember the case of Susan Powell? Remember her husband,
Josh Powell takes her and the little boys. Wait, no,
he says, he just takes the little boys, tiny tiny
boys out to go camping at midnight and literally freezing temperatures.
(34:03):
And coincidentally, that's the night Susan Powell goes missing, never
to be seen again. Her body has never been found.
And when the little boys are asked what happened to mommy,
they drew a picture of Mommy inside daddy's car trunk.
Dis reminds me of that, Ashley, because he's saying, at midnight,
(34:25):
they decide to go take their little boy, they're two
year old, for a walk. Yeah, it doesn't pass the
smell test. I also want to talk about people who disappear.
A people don't just disappear. Be Statistically, those who choose
to run away are not mothers. Specifically, of five children
and a two year old taking a walk at midnight,
(34:47):
none of that passed the smell test, and the reality
is a mother of five children doesn't just disappear. Guys
were talking, You have a question jup in do we well?
I keep wondering about the boyfriend. He wakes up, his
wife's not in bed. He says they were out at
midnight with a two year old, which obviously it's not true.
(35:08):
But do we know if he was dating somebody or
having an affair. There seems like such lack of details
around her disappearance and what was happening in the relationship
at the time. What do we know w d RB,
What do we know about the state of their relationship?
(35:28):
So at the end of their relationship in terms of
her going missing, Crystel's mom, Sherry Ballard, actually had a
conversation with her in their driveway right before she went missing,
and Cristel had said that she was going to leave him,
and she has all his tax information and it's hidden
(35:51):
in a box somewhere, and Sherry never asked any follow
up questions because she thought it was very strange. And
that's one thing that Harry regrets to this day is
not asking more questions about that one little thing that
Crystal had said. And so that raises suspicion in the
family because it just came out of the blue and
(36:14):
Crystal was saying it. Also, I want to point out
that shortly after Crystal disappeared, Brooks how started dating another
woman whose name is also Crystal, who is also a
blonde woman, and they have some similarities. Is she missing?
She is not missing. They are still together. Okay at
(36:34):
this juncture, are fouling lick w d RB. What is
the status? Are we waiting to find out the autopsy
results and whether this body can be identified as Crystal Rogers. Yes,
we are waiting on that information to get all the
details from the lab and Quantico back to us here
(36:55):
in Barstown. Police say they're not going to release any
further in until that comes back. And family has also
being very very tight lipped right now. They're asking for
respect to the family and they just basically want to
not talk right now. Up until now, this was a
(37:16):
quote no body case. Has it all changed? We wait
as just as unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off
Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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