June 23, 2020 • 30 mins
David Temple spent a decade in prison after a jury convicted him of murdering his wife, Belinda Lucas Temple. She was 8 months pregnant when killed by a shotgun blast in her Katy, Texas, home in 1999. Prosecutors argued her husband wanted to get rid of her so he could marry his mistress. The conviction was tossed when an appeals court ruled prosecutor misconduct denied Temple a fair trial. Is there justice for Belinda Temple?
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here, Welcome back to Killers amongst Us,
a production of iHeartMedia and Crime Online. To the world
around them. David and Belinda Temple were the Golden couple.
He's a big man on campus, a football star, she
miss school spirit. Their lives all centered around football. He
(00:26):
even proposes on the fifty yard line. How did it
go so horribly wrong? I Nancy Grace and this is
Killers amongst Us. David's prowess on the football field earns
him a full college scholarship to Stephen F. Austin University
(00:46):
in Texas. David Temple a Texas football star. Everyone wanted
to know him be recognized by him his stunning, charismatic
wife Belinda. They clicked immediately. They were gifted with looks, charm,
and talent. David Temple and Belinda Temple the All American couple.
(01:10):
They've been described as the Golden Boy and the Sunshine
Lady a million times. Everything seemed right in their marriage.
Belinda Gorgeous and her twin sister, Brenda, grew up in
a very loving home in Nagadochis, Texas. Temple David Temple
grew up in Katie, Texas. Not too far away and
(01:33):
was a Katie High School gridiron star. People treated him
like royalty. You know that guy that comes down the
high school hallways and the crowd just kind of parts
to let him come through. That's David Temple. I'm Nitzy
(01:56):
Grace Killers amongst us. Thank you for being with us.
You know, joining me right now is now defense attorney,
family law specialist Randall Kessler, forensics expert, Professor Forensics at
Jacksonville State University, an author of Blood Beneath My Feet
on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan, forensic psychiatrist. Joining me out
(02:19):
of the Florida jurisdiction doctor Daniel Bober. But right now
I'm going to go to Katie Times owner in Katie, Texas,
Brandy Kelcini with me and Brandy, not only are you
at the Katie Times, but you're from Nagdog. Just tell
me about Nagadogs, because I've got it in my head,
(02:41):
Brandy that it reminds me of where I grew up,
and that was in rural bib County, Middle Georgia. We
like to say Middle Georgia, not South Georgia. Now, I
don't know what is that subtle, but apparently very important distinction,
but from Middle Georgia. And we can't really even say
(03:01):
make in Georgia because we were out in the unincorporated
county on a red dirt road and well water where
the bookmobile would bring books to the rural and or
underprivileged children. But I gotta tell you something. It was
beautiful growing up there, far away from crime or any
(03:25):
idea of hate or not getting along. It was a
really rural, bucolic setting. And that's how I have in
my mind that Nagodochus is. Well. I would say that
Nakodochius is like that, as long as you add a
bunch of very very tall trees, lots of pine trees,
lots of pine trees. Tell me about Nagodochus. Now, Nagodochus again,
(03:46):
is where Belinda grew up. Belinda grew up in Nagodochus.
David grew up in Katie. And that's really how this
whole thing starts. Now, I didn't mean to interrupt. You,
go ahead and tell me about Nagodochus. Well, So Nakodoches
is considered one of the oldest towns in Texas. So
there was a settlement there about ten thousand years ago
(04:06):
was the site of the cattle Indian man. When you
say old, you really meant it. Okay, Now, what did
you say, ten thousand years ago? Yes, that there are
some artifacts that they have found in the Nakodochs area
that date back that far. Wow, Okay, but I want
to hear about everyday living as it is now. Tell
(04:28):
me about Nagadochis. Although I appreciate the ancient artifacts I do,
but tell me about life now. I mean, when I
grew up my grandmother Lucy. Okay, Okay, all of you
guys stopped groaning, especially you Kessler. I'm sure you're you know,
want to go out and charge your exorbitant hourly fee.
And Joe Scott Morgan wants to go examine some blood
(04:50):
and Bober wants to go examine some person with them,
you know, criminally insane. But just hold on, okay, Because
where I grew up, my mama, Lucy, my grandmother, for
a long time, worked behind the counter at the Woolworths diner.
There was actually a bar in the non alcoholic sense
(05:12):
where you could go and order grilled cheese and that
was the big thing. It was by the piggly Wiggly
and that was the big thing. I could go there
and Mama would fix me and grilled cheese and chocolate milk.
I was in heaven. That was the big thing. Then
we got the dairy Queen, so we were really, really
in high cotton then. So Brandy, owner of the Katie Times,
(05:38):
now that I've told you all about something irrelevant, you
tell me about Nagadoches. Well, Nagadochs is the quintessential small
college town. So much of the community is based around
Stephen of Boston University, which is right in the middle
of town. There are lots and lots of trees everywhere,
and one of the great things on campus is a
(06:00):
little log cabin that is original to that area from
when the first settlers came to Texas. So wait, are
you telling me that American Indians lived in a log cabin? No, No,
the first American settlers came to that area. Now that
the American Indians are not gonna like that. You said that,
(06:22):
just know that, and I just want to put it
out there. I have nothing to do, no control over
what she just said. All right, So I get it.
Stephen Austin University has a log cabin on campus. That
was one of the thee or one of the very first.
It was one of the very first settlement. Wow, okay, Now,
what was life like growing up in Negadition? No, I
(06:44):
would say what we always thought it was was fairly,
you know, typical of any other small American town. The
kids went out on Friday nights. Football was king. You
had went out and partied on Saturday night with all
your friends. And there were, you know, several specific places
(07:05):
that you hung out, especially as a college student. There
were a couple of clubs that were the popular places
to go, and there were a couple of key restaurants
that you always went to on a regular basis. Now,
I don't know what you're saying. In high school you
went to a club. All we got to do is
go to Shakey's Pizza and that was a big night.
And if I was not home by a quarter of eleven,
(07:26):
my father would and did come looking for me. I'm
not gonna tell you what happened when he found me either,
but I'd like to forget that moment. But what do
you mean clubs in high school? There were a lot
of dance Oh no, there were a lot of dance
clubs there in Nacodote, just mainly because it was a
college town. And back then in the eighties, Nakodoches and
(07:49):
Stephen F. Auston was known as a party school. So
a lot of the kids in the area would graduate
from high school and go to Stephen F. Austen. That
was a standard path if you wanted to get a
college education, was to just go right there in your backyard. Well,
this is what I know about Stephen F. Austin. I
(08:11):
know that it's a public university in nagadochus and it
was originally founded as a teacher's college in nineteen twenty
three and named after a guy that helped established Texas,
Stephen Austin. And I'm really curious about its football program.
(08:33):
But hey, I'm getting ahead of myself. Randy keion SENI
owner of the Katie Times. So that is where Belinda
grows up and she heads to Stephen F. Austin State University.
But what was her family like? I was recently giving
a speech in Port Huron, way up on the Canadian border,
and believe it or not, out of the blue ran
(08:55):
into her sister. And I was amazed, because you know,
I've felt that I knew her sister for a really
long time. But tell me about her family life. Blenda's
family life growing up well. Growing up, she and her
twin sister, they were very active in sports. She a
blend of herself, played basketball and was named All District
(09:19):
as a senior at Nacodoch's High School. She graduated from
their nineteen eighty seven. She was also voted the girl
with the most school Spirit at Nakodochri's High School. Okay,
I'm identifying with that. To Randy Kessler, defense attorney, I
guess you're not surprised that I won Miss School Spirit
several times in a row. I just know that deep
(09:42):
inside you are arguing with miss school Spirit and what
have you done with your life? Huh? Look at that? Amazing?
But you know, to Joseph Scott Morgan, when you are
I mean you and I know what lies ahead in
this story. But it always is when you go into
a crime scene, Joe Scott Morgan, I used to do
(10:04):
this all the time when I was investigating, and this
was a very poignant moment for me. And it happened
all the time. I would go to a crime scene
or someone's home or meet with their sister, and I
would get a glimpse of the players as they were
in their youth, before life took a toll on them.
(10:26):
Does that when you are ever on a crime scene,
or you're called out, or you're investigating, do you ever think,
how in the world do we get here or get
a glimpse of these people before they hit the headlines? Yeah, Nancy,
that's it's a long crooked path. Lots of times when
you look at you know, how these lives, you know,
(10:47):
just kind of intersect and wind up in these horrific situations.
I make this comment many times when I'm speaking publicly
and also to my students at JSU, I'll say that
as cromp scene investigators, as death investigators, were always having
to look at things, look at the abnormal in the
(11:09):
context of the normal, and sometimes it's really quite striking. Wow,
that's an incredible quote right there, looking at the abnormal
into context of the normal. Did I get at Bass
Ackwards or is that what you said? Yes, ma'am, that's
absolute correct. And to doctor Daniel Vover, so often we
look at crime stories or crime scenes or read the news,
(11:31):
and we look at these players as if we're looking
at a tarantula under a glass box, like they're different
from us. But you hear what Brandy Kean Seni at
Katie Times is saying, Belinda grew up as a basketball
star and as miss school Spirit. I mean, what could
be more wholesome and more scrubbed in sunshine than that?
(11:53):
You know what, Nancy, I always say with people, you
get two things, what you see and what they want
to show you. And a lot of times families have
secrets and things are never what they seem from outward appearances.
Linda grew up in a very loving home. She excelled
in basketball, Miss school Spirit. She was definitely a looker,
(12:16):
really really pretty young girl. What about him, Well, he
was mister football. He was part of the football team
there at Katie High School, and Katie is a powerhouse
in Texas sport and in particular in Texas football. And
because he was a star linebacker his senior year, everybody
(12:39):
knew him. You know that's funny you said that, Brandy,
because suddenly, just at that moment, took me back to
my freshman year at Valdosta State College now as Kaldosta University,
pretty much at the Florida Georgia border. And I remember
the first Friday night I was at college. I was
in my dorm and all of a sudden, I heard
(13:01):
what sounded like the drumbeats of a war party. It
sounded like a war beat, and I said, what is that? Well,
the local football team Lowndes County is like what you're saying.
It was the state powerhouse and all the way across
(13:22):
town you could hear the band music. Because it was
Friday night, they were getting ready to play football. At
my little high school, you know, football was a big
deal and a huge big deal. The only sport for
girls was basketball. Twenty five girls tried out, twenty four
girls made the team. I was the one that got cut,
(13:45):
just so you know, not better, not better, It is
because they only had X number of uniforms. So somebody
had to go and it was me. Hence my career
and cheerleading, and that's how I really learned about football.
I watched so many football game as a cheerleader. But
I remember that drumbeat, and I hear what you're saying, Brandy,
(14:06):
football was king. Now. Tell so where does David Temple
fit into that? Well, he was the star. He was
one of the top players on their team, and the
his senior year, they had an undefeated season and the
word district champions and that goes a long way here
in Texas. So after he graduated, he went to SFA
(14:28):
and played football there. Now, tell me about his family, Well,
he has his parents are there in Katie and he
has a brother who is now married, and they were
pretty close and were very supportive of him and what
he wanted to do and where he wanted to go. Well,
what did he want to do and where did he
want to go? Well, he wanted to go as far
(14:52):
as he could with his football career and eventually become
a teacher. And that's what most you know, what a
lot of guys will do when they want to play football,
They play as long as they can, and then they
coach it because they absolutely love the game. Well, I've
got to tell you something in this day and age,
you know, Brandy, when my son was three, he had
a horrible blow to the head at a birthday party
(15:15):
and he was in the hospital for four days. At
age three, he had a horrible concussion. Excuse me, age
four and I have you know and goes. I've always
encouraged him to play soccer or play golf, played something
other than football. The other day, he was in the
front yard. Somebody gave him a football, he got it out,
(15:37):
he threw it across the front yard. I went, oh,
dear Lord in Heaven, he had an arm like a bullet. Oh.
I hope no football coach sees that, because you cannot
take another blow to the head. But Brandy, I hear
what you're saying. So they both end up headed to
Stephen F. Austin State University. Listen, David's proud. It's on
(16:00):
the football field Stephen F. Austin University in Texas. Once there,
it's not surprising that girls flocked to David's side, and
he feels entitled to the prettiest girl in the room.
Then one day in the fall of nineteen ninety, David
(16:21):
sees a striking blonde around campus. Her name is Belinda.
Belinda was working with the football team. She was in
the athletic program at the same college, and they met
through the football program there and they clicked immediately. Not
(16:41):
only is Belinda gorgeous, she has a great personality. She's
always had a smile on her face, and she loved life.
She loved people. She was just a wonderful person, you know,
and everyone that didn't know her wanted to know her
as soon as they met her, just simply because she
was so much fun to be around. You are hearing
(17:02):
our friends Nicole Blackman and Catherine Casey ud scorned. Wow.
So they meet at stephen Austin. They meet at Stephen
Austin University and apparently it's love at first sight, and
David is completely taken with Belinda. It's love at first sight.
(17:24):
He was very affectionate with her. He always had his
arm around her. He would always touch her or play
with her hair. David could be incredibly romantic. He was
the kind of guy who showed up with roses and
left little love notes on a windshield when he saw
his girlfriend's car. It's a whirlwind courtship. Classmates even give
(17:48):
them the nickname the Golden Couple. And after dating for
just eleven months, David proposes. He came over Nash for
a hand in marriage, and we thought that was a
neat thing when he proposed. He did it in a
very remarkable, unforgettable way. He proposed on the football field
(18:10):
where he had all of his great victories and He
got down on his knees and asked her to marry him,
and she agreed to. He did everything the fairytale way,
very very romantic. She loved him very much. He was
her world. She wanted to be a wife, she wanted
to be a mother. That's what she wanted to do.
(18:32):
It does sound like a fairy tale. Those were our friends,
Nicole Blackman and Katherine Casey. An interesting Tom Lucas that
is Belinda's dad talking about the proposal with me. Randy Kessler,
Joseph Scott Morgan, doctor Daniel Bober and Brandy Kosini Kenny
Times owner. Brandy tell me about the proposal and the wedding. Well,
(18:55):
so he proposed on the football field was a very
important thing for him, and they were married in nineteen
ninety two and Acadochus, which is her hometown. Brandy, hold on,
you know, I'm so happy I get to correct you.
It wasn't just the football field. It was the fifty
yard line, is my understanding. It was the fifty yard line.
(19:17):
I'm so happy about my irrelevant fact. Okay, go ahead.
He you know, one of the things that a lot
of people don't realize is that he was part of
the championship team at SFA for their conference, and that
happened in nineteen eighty nine, and then they had in
nineteen ninety and then got married in nineteen ninety two.
(19:39):
So where he proposed to her had a lot of
significance for him because they won a lot of games
during his time there, you know, to forensic psychiatrists, doctor
(20:00):
Daniel Bober joining me, doctor Bober, a lot of people
would you have a field day with the fact that
he proposed on the fifty yard line of a football field.
You know, I don't know that I would read that
much into it. He's a young guy and he can't
really this is his world, and I don't think he
(20:22):
at that time could think beyond that proposal location. But
what do you make of it? I don't think much
could be gleaned from that. I mean, I think he
probably thought it was a pretty neat and interesting thing.
But like you said, that's his world, that's what he's
surrounded by, so for him it probably made perfect sense. Now,
some people would argue that she's just another victory, She's
(20:42):
like another trophy, because he is proposing right there on
the fifty yard line, and you know, I guess there's
some validity to that way. In Doctor Robbie Ludwig do
people meet and fall in love in college? It's really
a time of innocence, and college can feel like the
(21:03):
real world, but as we know, real life is far
more complex and challenging, and so there's this kind of
pseudo reality that happens within a collegiate environment. Especially when
you have somebody who is a star football player who
has some celebrity, It can create an environment that feels
(21:27):
like everything is within your control. And just on top
of that, you know, really, what we know about younger
relationships and why it's so important to really give yourself
time before making a final choice and a spouse, is
that really the frontal cortex of your brain is not
fully developed, so your ability really to understand cause and
(21:52):
effect and to really know who you are doesn't happen
until slightly later in life. Take a listen to our
friends at forty eight Hours Off the field. He was
a bit of a romantic, especially when it came to
an attractive, fizzed major Belinda Lucas. She's just naturally god
given duty, but on the inside she's prettier that she
(22:12):
was because she would do anything for anybody. I'm in
Carol Lucas for her hand. That is very old fashioned
to ask her, what did you make of that? I
made that, you know, this pretty neat guy. I didn't
think young men did that in these days. With her
parents blessing, David proposed to Belinda in the most sentimental
(22:34):
setting he could imagine. I took her down in the
fifth yard, lining got down and told her how much
I vowed her and actress she'd married me. You're hearing
Belinda's parents and David Temple speaking about the proposal, the engagement,
and then the wedding. Brandy tell me about the wedding, well,
I would say it was a typical East Texas wedding
(22:56):
with flowers and happiness. And you know in East Texas,
you know, especially in the eighties and nineties, there was
lots of big hair, so, you know, you it was
just indicative of the time. Everything was big. So it
was big hair, big flowers, big dress, big you know, attendance,
(23:20):
so and lots of happiness. It was a truly joyous time.
Looking at a picture of them driving away from their wedding,
and Belinda's just beautiful. She's got on an off the
shoulder wedding dress. It looks a little bit like Princess
Diana's dress and her hair beautiful. She's wearing pearls, he's driving,
(23:45):
he still has on his black tugs. He's looking handsome.
And I'm just looking at all the wedding photos right now,
and they really are just stunning. She's beautiful, he looks
so happy. We're talking about the wedding of Belinda and
(24:08):
David Temple. So off they go to set the world
on fire, hand in hand. Then when the honeymoon is over,
they settle in for happily ever after, let's go to
cut four. David gets a job teaching at a local
high school, where he also becomes an assistant football coach,
(24:29):
and Belinda gets a teaching job at David's alma mater,
Katie High School. She's adored by her colleagues. We called
her our sunshine lady. She would send cute little emails
to teachers, and she was just a bubbly young woman
and loved teaching. You were hearing our friend Nicole Blackman
(24:50):
speaking at Scorned. You know, it seems like it's a
picture perfect life. So Randy keion Cini with me, owner
of the Katie Times. It seems like they really took
to teaching. Oh they did. They. You know, there's a
(25:11):
lot to being a teacher. It can't just be a vocation.
It has to be a passion, and that is exactly
what it was for both of them. For him, it
made sense. He started in sports and was a football player,
went into college, got his you know, got his degrees,
and then went to Ali Pacings High School and was
(25:35):
a coach and a teacher, And so that makes absolute sense.
For Belinda, it absolutely was a passion. When she got
her job at Katie High School, she was a special
education teacher. When they think about when you think about teachers,
it is not an easy job in the best of circumstances.
(25:56):
When you deal with special needs children on a variety
of levels. You have to be completely adaptable to each
individual student in every aspect of what they need. Times ten.
And she was, by all accounts, extremely happy in her job.
She loved it, She loved her students and she would
(26:17):
always go the extra mile for them. Here's our friend,
Richard's lessinger. They married and both ended up working with children. Belinda,
they married and both ended up working with children. Belinda
taught special ed at Katie High where her husband had
ruled on the football field. She was such a great
teacher because she loved kids and she understood the kids
(26:40):
so well. Debbie Burger, who taught in the same classroom,
was a close friend. She was a strong person, very direct,
but yet very loving and warm. David landed a job
in a nearby town, teaching and coaching alongside his old
rival Wade lucern Oh. I thought he was good a
(27:03):
coach I've ever worked with, and I'm coached for thirty
six years. He'd take guys maybe weren't as good, and
he would always try to bring their level up. No,
It's interesting to doctor Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, the significance
of going back home after college. When you graduate, you
start a new life, but you return home to Katie, Texas.
(27:28):
What does that mean, if anything, to you. He goes
back to where he was the big man on campus
to get a job right back at his old high school.
One Nancy with that tells me is that, you know,
he kind of goes back to the place where he
had his status, where he was, you know, on top.
And I think that happens for a lot of people
when they, you know, are in an area where that
(27:48):
was where they were prominent, they want to go back
to sort of relive those glory days, if you will.
What about it, Brandy Brandy Key on SNI with Me,
owner of the Katie Times. It may mean nothing, but
it may mean something. To tell me about it, Well,
I would agree in a lot of instances, when you
have people, young people who are very popular in their community,
(28:10):
especially in a smaller community as Katie was back then,
they go off to college, they are in their degree,
and they want to come back because they want to
relive that time and they want to be close to
their families when they start their own families. So it
made complete sense that that's where they went. So the
two are back and it's not long until they discover
(28:30):
they're going to have a baby. To really complete that
perfect picture, how long have they been married, Brandy before
she gets pregnant. They were married a little over two
years when she got pregnant, and Evan was born in
nineteen ninety five. So, Brandy, what could you tell me
about their neighborhood? Where did they live, where did they
(28:52):
settle down and have the first baby? Well, they lived
in a small neighborhood right right in the middle of Katie,
and it was a great little house, and that it
was a great place to start a family. This was
a community of a lot of small families and it
(29:12):
was just a great starter place. It wasn't long after
that that she finds out she's pregnant again, and my world,
that was the happy, happiest time in my life when
I realized my dream of having a child was coming true.
After the murder of my fiance so many years before,
(29:32):
I thought it would never happen. And not only did
it happen, I had blessings rained down on my head.
I never imagined I had twins. But for Belinda, it
was bitter sweet. When David tells When David tells Belinda
he's not sure if he still loves her, she's completely devastating.
(29:54):
It would be a matter of months before everything blows
sky high. Nancy Grace Killers of must Us, Goodbye friend.
Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here, Welcome back to Killers amongst Us,
a production of iHeartMedia and Crime Online. To the world
around them. David and Belinda Temple were the Golden couple.
He's a big man on campus, a football star, she
miss school spirit. Their lives all centered around football. He
(00:26):
even proposes on the fifty yard line. How did it
go so horribly wrong? I Nancy Grace and this is
Killers amongst Us. David's prowess on the football field earns
him a full college scholarship to Stephen F. Austin University
(00:46):
in Texas. David Temple a Texas football star. Everyone wanted
to know him be recognized by him his stunning, charismatic
wife Belinda. They clicked immediately. They were gifted with looks, charm,
and talent. David Temple and Belinda Temple the All American couple.
(01:10):
They've been described as the Golden Boy and the Sunshine
Lady a million times. Everything seemed right in their marriage.
Belinda Gorgeous and her twin sister, Brenda, grew up in
a very loving home in Nagadochis, Texas. Temple David Temple
grew up in Katie, Texas. Not too far away and
(01:33):
was a Katie High School gridiron star. People treated him
like royalty. You know that guy that comes down the
high school hallways and the crowd just kind of parts
to let him come through. That's David Temple. I'm Nitzy
(01:56):
Grace Killers amongst us. Thank you for being with us.
You know, joining me right now is now defense attorney,
family law specialist Randall Kessler, forensics expert, Professor Forensics at
Jacksonville State University, an author of Blood Beneath My Feet
on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan, forensic psychiatrist. Joining me out
(02:19):
of the Florida jurisdiction doctor Daniel Bober. But right now
I'm going to go to Katie Times owner in Katie, Texas,
Brandy Kelcini with me and Brandy, not only are you
at the Katie Times, but you're from Nagdog. Just tell
me about Nagadogs, because I've got it in my head,
(02:41):
Brandy that it reminds me of where I grew up,
and that was in rural bib County, Middle Georgia. We
like to say Middle Georgia, not South Georgia. Now, I
don't know what is that subtle, but apparently very important distinction,
but from Middle Georgia. And we can't really even say
(03:01):
make in Georgia because we were out in the unincorporated
county on a red dirt road and well water where
the bookmobile would bring books to the rural and or
underprivileged children. But I gotta tell you something. It was
beautiful growing up there, far away from crime or any
(03:25):
idea of hate or not getting along. It was a
really rural, bucolic setting. And that's how I have in
my mind that Nagodochus is. Well. I would say that
Nakodochius is like that, as long as you add a
bunch of very very tall trees, lots of pine trees,
lots of pine trees. Tell me about Nagodochus. Now, Nagodochus again,
(03:46):
is where Belinda grew up. Belinda grew up in Nagodochus.
David grew up in Katie. And that's really how this
whole thing starts. Now, I didn't mean to interrupt. You,
go ahead and tell me about Nagodochus. Well, So Nakodoches
is considered one of the oldest towns in Texas. So
there was a settlement there about ten thousand years ago
(04:06):
was the site of the cattle Indian man. When you
say old, you really meant it. Okay, Now, what did
you say, ten thousand years ago? Yes, that there are
some artifacts that they have found in the Nakodochs area
that date back that far. Wow, Okay, but I want
to hear about everyday living as it is now. Tell
(04:28):
me about Nagadochis. Although I appreciate the ancient artifacts I do,
but tell me about life now. I mean, when I
grew up my grandmother Lucy. Okay, Okay, all of you
guys stopped groaning, especially you Kessler. I'm sure you're you know,
want to go out and charge your exorbitant hourly fee.
And Joe Scott Morgan wants to go examine some blood
(04:50):
and Bober wants to go examine some person with them,
you know, criminally insane. But just hold on, okay, Because
where I grew up, my mama, Lucy, my grandmother, for
a long time, worked behind the counter at the Woolworths diner.
There was actually a bar in the non alcoholic sense
(05:12):
where you could go and order grilled cheese and that
was the big thing. It was by the piggly Wiggly
and that was the big thing. I could go there
and Mama would fix me and grilled cheese and chocolate milk.
I was in heaven. That was the big thing. Then
we got the dairy Queen, so we were really, really
in high cotton then. So Brandy, owner of the Katie Times,
(05:38):
now that I've told you all about something irrelevant, you
tell me about Nagadoches. Well, Nagadochs is the quintessential small
college town. So much of the community is based around
Stephen of Boston University, which is right in the middle
of town. There are lots and lots of trees everywhere,
and one of the great things on campus is a
(06:00):
little log cabin that is original to that area from
when the first settlers came to Texas. So wait, are
you telling me that American Indians lived in a log cabin? No, No,
the first American settlers came to that area. Now that
the American Indians are not gonna like that. You said that,
(06:22):
just know that, and I just want to put it
out there. I have nothing to do, no control over
what she just said. All right, So I get it.
Stephen Austin University has a log cabin on campus. That
was one of the thee or one of the very first.
It was one of the very first settlement. Wow, okay, Now,
what was life like growing up in Negadition? No, I
(06:44):
would say what we always thought it was was fairly,
you know, typical of any other small American town. The
kids went out on Friday nights. Football was king. You
had went out and partied on Saturday night with all
your friends. And there were, you know, several specific places
(07:05):
that you hung out, especially as a college student. There
were a couple of clubs that were the popular places
to go, and there were a couple of key restaurants
that you always went to on a regular basis. Now,
I don't know what you're saying. In high school you
went to a club. All we got to do is
go to Shakey's Pizza and that was a big night.
And if I was not home by a quarter of eleven,
(07:26):
my father would and did come looking for me. I'm
not gonna tell you what happened when he found me either,
but I'd like to forget that moment. But what do
you mean clubs in high school? There were a lot
of dance Oh no, there were a lot of dance
clubs there in Nacodote, just mainly because it was a
college town. And back then in the eighties, Nakodoches and
(07:49):
Stephen F. Auston was known as a party school. So
a lot of the kids in the area would graduate
from high school and go to Stephen F. Austen. That
was a standard path if you wanted to get a
college education, was to just go right there in your backyard. Well,
this is what I know about Stephen F. Austin. I
(08:11):
know that it's a public university in nagadochus and it
was originally founded as a teacher's college in nineteen twenty
three and named after a guy that helped established Texas,
Stephen Austin. And I'm really curious about its football program.
(08:33):
But hey, I'm getting ahead of myself. Randy keion SENI
owner of the Katie Times. So that is where Belinda
grows up and she heads to Stephen F. Austin State University.
But what was her family like? I was recently giving
a speech in Port Huron, way up on the Canadian border,
and believe it or not, out of the blue ran
(08:55):
into her sister. And I was amazed, because you know,
I've felt that I knew her sister for a really
long time. But tell me about her family life. Blenda's
family life growing up well. Growing up, she and her
twin sister, they were very active in sports. She a
blend of herself, played basketball and was named All District
(09:19):
as a senior at Nacodoch's High School. She graduated from
their nineteen eighty seven. She was also voted the girl
with the most school Spirit at Nakodochri's High School. Okay,
I'm identifying with that. To Randy Kessler, defense attorney, I
guess you're not surprised that I won Miss School Spirit
several times in a row. I just know that deep
(09:42):
inside you are arguing with miss school Spirit and what
have you done with your life? Huh? Look at that? Amazing?
But you know, to Joseph Scott Morgan, when you are
I mean you and I know what lies ahead in
this story. But it always is when you go into
a crime scene, Joe Scott Morgan, I used to do
(10:04):
this all the time when I was investigating, and this
was a very poignant moment for me. And it happened
all the time. I would go to a crime scene
or someone's home or meet with their sister, and I
would get a glimpse of the players as they were
in their youth, before life took a toll on them.
(10:26):
Does that when you are ever on a crime scene,
or you're called out, or you're investigating, do you ever think,
how in the world do we get here or get
a glimpse of these people before they hit the headlines? Yeah, Nancy,
that's it's a long crooked path. Lots of times when
you look at you know, how these lives, you know,
(10:47):
just kind of intersect and wind up in these horrific situations.
I make this comment many times when I'm speaking publicly
and also to my students at JSU, I'll say that
as cromp scene investigators, as death investigators, were always having
to look at things, look at the abnormal in the
(11:09):
context of the normal, and sometimes it's really quite striking. Wow,
that's an incredible quote right there, looking at the abnormal
into context of the normal. Did I get at Bass
Ackwards or is that what you said? Yes, ma'am, that's
absolute correct. And to doctor Daniel Vover, so often we
look at crime stories or crime scenes or read the news,
(11:31):
and we look at these players as if we're looking
at a tarantula under a glass box, like they're different
from us. But you hear what Brandy Kean Seni at
Katie Times is saying, Belinda grew up as a basketball
star and as miss school Spirit. I mean, what could
be more wholesome and more scrubbed in sunshine than that?
(11:53):
You know what, Nancy, I always say with people, you
get two things, what you see and what they want
to show you. And a lot of times families have
secrets and things are never what they seem from outward appearances.
Linda grew up in a very loving home. She excelled
in basketball, Miss school Spirit. She was definitely a looker,
(12:16):
really really pretty young girl. What about him, Well, he
was mister football. He was part of the football team
there at Katie High School, and Katie is a powerhouse
in Texas sport and in particular in Texas football. And
because he was a star linebacker his senior year, everybody
(12:39):
knew him. You know that's funny you said that, Brandy,
because suddenly, just at that moment, took me back to
my freshman year at Valdosta State College now as Kaldosta University,
pretty much at the Florida Georgia border. And I remember
the first Friday night I was at college. I was
in my dorm and all of a sudden, I heard
(13:01):
what sounded like the drumbeats of a war party. It
sounded like a war beat, and I said, what is that? Well,
the local football team Lowndes County is like what you're saying.
It was the state powerhouse and all the way across
(13:22):
town you could hear the band music. Because it was
Friday night, they were getting ready to play football. At
my little high school, you know, football was a big
deal and a huge big deal. The only sport for
girls was basketball. Twenty five girls tried out, twenty four
girls made the team. I was the one that got cut,
(13:45):
just so you know, not better, not better, It is
because they only had X number of uniforms. So somebody
had to go and it was me. Hence my career
and cheerleading, and that's how I really learned about football.
I watched so many football game as a cheerleader. But
I remember that drumbeat, and I hear what you're saying, Brandy,
(14:06):
football was king. Now. Tell so where does David Temple
fit into that? Well, he was the star. He was
one of the top players on their team, and the
his senior year, they had an undefeated season and the
word district champions and that goes a long way here
in Texas. So after he graduated, he went to SFA
(14:28):
and played football there. Now, tell me about his family, Well,
he has his parents are there in Katie and he
has a brother who is now married, and they were
pretty close and were very supportive of him and what
he wanted to do and where he wanted to go. Well,
what did he want to do and where did he
want to go? Well, he wanted to go as far
(14:52):
as he could with his football career and eventually become
a teacher. And that's what most you know, what a
lot of guys will do when they want to play football,
They play as long as they can, and then they
coach it because they absolutely love the game. Well, I've
got to tell you something in this day and age,
you know, Brandy, when my son was three, he had
a horrible blow to the head at a birthday party
(15:15):
and he was in the hospital for four days. At
age three, he had a horrible concussion. Excuse me, age
four and I have you know and goes. I've always
encouraged him to play soccer or play golf, played something
other than football. The other day, he was in the
front yard. Somebody gave him a football, he got it out,
(15:37):
he threw it across the front yard. I went, oh,
dear Lord in Heaven, he had an arm like a bullet. Oh.
I hope no football coach sees that, because you cannot
take another blow to the head. But Brandy, I hear
what you're saying. So they both end up headed to
Stephen F. Austin State University. Listen, David's proud. It's on
(16:00):
the football field Stephen F. Austin University in Texas. Once there,
it's not surprising that girls flocked to David's side, and
he feels entitled to the prettiest girl in the room.
Then one day in the fall of nineteen ninety, David
(16:21):
sees a striking blonde around campus. Her name is Belinda.
Belinda was working with the football team. She was in
the athletic program at the same college, and they met
through the football program there and they clicked immediately. Not
(16:41):
only is Belinda gorgeous, she has a great personality. She's
always had a smile on her face, and she loved life.
She loved people. She was just a wonderful person, you know,
and everyone that didn't know her wanted to know her
as soon as they met her, just simply because she
was so much fun to be around. You are hearing
(17:02):
our friends Nicole Blackman and Catherine Casey ud scorned. Wow.
So they meet at stephen Austin. They meet at Stephen
Austin University and apparently it's love at first sight, and
David is completely taken with Belinda. It's love at first sight.
(17:24):
He was very affectionate with her. He always had his
arm around her. He would always touch her or play
with her hair. David could be incredibly romantic. He was
the kind of guy who showed up with roses and
left little love notes on a windshield when he saw
his girlfriend's car. It's a whirlwind courtship. Classmates even give
(17:48):
them the nickname the Golden Couple. And after dating for
just eleven months, David proposes. He came over Nash for
a hand in marriage, and we thought that was a
neat thing when he proposed. He did it in a
very remarkable, unforgettable way. He proposed on the football field
(18:10):
where he had all of his great victories and He
got down on his knees and asked her to marry him,
and she agreed to. He did everything the fairytale way,
very very romantic. She loved him very much. He was
her world. She wanted to be a wife, she wanted
to be a mother. That's what she wanted to do.
(18:32):
It does sound like a fairy tale. Those were our friends,
Nicole Blackman and Katherine Casey. An interesting Tom Lucas that
is Belinda's dad talking about the proposal with me. Randy Kessler,
Joseph Scott Morgan, doctor Daniel Bober and Brandy Kosini Kenny
Times owner. Brandy tell me about the proposal and the wedding. Well,
(18:55):
so he proposed on the football field was a very
important thing for him, and they were married in nineteen
ninety two and Acadochus, which is her hometown. Brandy, hold on,
you know, I'm so happy I get to correct you.
It wasn't just the football field. It was the fifty
yard line, is my understanding. It was the fifty yard line.
(19:17):
I'm so happy about my irrelevant fact. Okay, go ahead.
He you know, one of the things that a lot
of people don't realize is that he was part of
the championship team at SFA for their conference, and that
happened in nineteen eighty nine, and then they had in
nineteen ninety and then got married in nineteen ninety two.
(19:39):
So where he proposed to her had a lot of
significance for him because they won a lot of games
during his time there, you know, to forensic psychiatrists, doctor
(20:00):
Daniel Bober joining me, doctor Bober, a lot of people
would you have a field day with the fact that
he proposed on the fifty yard line of a football field.
You know, I don't know that I would read that
much into it. He's a young guy and he can't
really this is his world, and I don't think he
(20:22):
at that time could think beyond that proposal location. But
what do you make of it? I don't think much
could be gleaned from that. I mean, I think he
probably thought it was a pretty neat and interesting thing.
But like you said, that's his world, that's what he's
surrounded by, so for him it probably made perfect sense. Now,
some people would argue that she's just another victory, She's
(20:42):
like another trophy, because he is proposing right there on
the fifty yard line, and you know, I guess there's
some validity to that way. In Doctor Robbie Ludwig do
people meet and fall in love in college? It's really
a time of innocence, and college can feel like the
(21:03):
real world, but as we know, real life is far
more complex and challenging, and so there's this kind of
pseudo reality that happens within a collegiate environment. Especially when
you have somebody who is a star football player who
has some celebrity, It can create an environment that feels
(21:27):
like everything is within your control. And just on top
of that, you know, really, what we know about younger
relationships and why it's so important to really give yourself
time before making a final choice and a spouse, is
that really the frontal cortex of your brain is not
fully developed, so your ability really to understand cause and
(21:52):
effect and to really know who you are doesn't happen
until slightly later in life. Take a listen to our
friends at forty eight Hours Off the field. He was
a bit of a romantic, especially when it came to
an attractive, fizzed major Belinda Lucas. She's just naturally god
given duty, but on the inside she's prettier that she
(22:12):
was because she would do anything for anybody. I'm in
Carol Lucas for her hand. That is very old fashioned
to ask her, what did you make of that? I
made that, you know, this pretty neat guy. I didn't
think young men did that in these days. With her
parents blessing, David proposed to Belinda in the most sentimental
(22:34):
setting he could imagine. I took her down in the
fifth yard, lining got down and told her how much
I vowed her and actress she'd married me. You're hearing
Belinda's parents and David Temple speaking about the proposal, the engagement,
and then the wedding. Brandy tell me about the wedding, well,
I would say it was a typical East Texas wedding
(22:56):
with flowers and happiness. And you know in East Texas,
you know, especially in the eighties and nineties, there was
lots of big hair, so, you know, you it was
just indicative of the time. Everything was big. So it
was big hair, big flowers, big dress, big you know, attendance,
(23:20):
so and lots of happiness. It was a truly joyous time.
Looking at a picture of them driving away from their wedding,
and Belinda's just beautiful. She's got on an off the
shoulder wedding dress. It looks a little bit like Princess
Diana's dress and her hair beautiful. She's wearing pearls, he's driving,
(23:45):
he still has on his black tugs. He's looking handsome.
And I'm just looking at all the wedding photos right now,
and they really are just stunning. She's beautiful, he looks
so happy. We're talking about the wedding of Belinda and
(24:08):
David Temple. So off they go to set the world
on fire, hand in hand. Then when the honeymoon is over,
they settle in for happily ever after, let's go to
cut four. David gets a job teaching at a local
high school, where he also becomes an assistant football coach,
(24:29):
and Belinda gets a teaching job at David's alma mater,
Katie High School. She's adored by her colleagues. We called
her our sunshine lady. She would send cute little emails
to teachers, and she was just a bubbly young woman
and loved teaching. You were hearing our friend Nicole Blackman
(24:50):
speaking at Scorned. You know, it seems like it's a
picture perfect life. So Randy keion Cini with me, owner
of the Katie Times. It seems like they really took
to teaching. Oh they did. They. You know, there's a
(25:11):
lot to being a teacher. It can't just be a vocation.
It has to be a passion, and that is exactly
what it was for both of them. For him, it
made sense. He started in sports and was a football player,
went into college, got his you know, got his degrees,
and then went to Ali Pacings High School and was
(25:35):
a coach and a teacher, And so that makes absolute sense.
For Belinda, it absolutely was a passion. When she got
her job at Katie High School, she was a special
education teacher. When they think about when you think about teachers,
it is not an easy job in the best of circumstances.
(25:56):
When you deal with special needs children on a variety
of levels. You have to be completely adaptable to each
individual student in every aspect of what they need. Times ten.
And she was, by all accounts, extremely happy in her job.
She loved it, She loved her students and she would
(26:17):
always go the extra mile for them. Here's our friend,
Richard's lessinger. They married and both ended up working with children. Belinda,
they married and both ended up working with children. Belinda
taught special ed at Katie High where her husband had
ruled on the football field. She was such a great
teacher because she loved kids and she understood the kids
(26:40):
so well. Debbie Burger, who taught in the same classroom,
was a close friend. She was a strong person, very direct,
but yet very loving and warm. David landed a job
in a nearby town, teaching and coaching alongside his old
rival Wade lucern Oh. I thought he was good a
(27:03):
coach I've ever worked with, and I'm coached for thirty
six years. He'd take guys maybe weren't as good, and
he would always try to bring their level up. No,
It's interesting to doctor Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, the significance
of going back home after college. When you graduate, you
start a new life, but you return home to Katie, Texas.
(27:28):
What does that mean, if anything, to you. He goes
back to where he was the big man on campus
to get a job right back at his old high school.
One Nancy with that tells me is that, you know,
he kind of goes back to the place where he
had his status, where he was, you know, on top.
And I think that happens for a lot of people
when they, you know, are in an area where that
(27:48):
was where they were prominent, they want to go back
to sort of relive those glory days, if you will.
What about it, Brandy Brandy Key on SNI with Me,
owner of the Katie Times. It may mean nothing, but
it may mean something. To tell me about it, Well,
I would agree in a lot of instances, when you
have people, young people who are very popular in their community,
(28:10):
especially in a smaller community as Katie was back then,
they go off to college, they are in their degree,
and they want to come back because they want to
relive that time and they want to be close to
their families when they start their own families. So it
made complete sense that that's where they went. So the
two are back and it's not long until they discover
(28:30):
they're going to have a baby. To really complete that
perfect picture, how long have they been married, Brandy before
she gets pregnant. They were married a little over two
years when she got pregnant, and Evan was born in
nineteen ninety five. So, Brandy, what could you tell me
about their neighborhood? Where did they live, where did they
(28:52):
settle down and have the first baby? Well, they lived
in a small neighborhood right right in the middle of Katie,
and it was a great little house, and that it
was a great place to start a family. This was
a community of a lot of small families and it
(29:12):
was just a great starter place. It wasn't long after
that that she finds out she's pregnant again, and my world,
that was the happy, happiest time in my life when
I realized my dream of having a child was coming true.
After the murder of my fiance so many years before,
(29:32):
I thought it would never happen. And not only did
it happen, I had blessings rained down on my head.
I never imagined I had twins. But for Belinda, it
was bitter sweet. When David tells When David tells Belinda
he's not sure if he still loves her, she's completely devastating.
(29:54):
It would be a matter of months before everything blows
sky high. Nancy Grace Killers of must Us, Goodbye friend.
Host
Nancy Grace
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.