Dr. William Husel is facing 25 murder charges for allegedly using fentanyl to kill critically-ill patients. He adamantly claims innocence and files a civil lawsuit against his employers. Investigators, however, say that they've established escalation and intent after Williams continuously administers increased levels of the drug to patients.
Joining Nancy Grace to discuss:
- Mark Tate: Savannah, Ga., Attorney, represents Chatham County, South Carolina; suing opioid manufacturers
- Dr. William Morrone: Chief Medical Examiner of Bay County Michigan, Chief Medical Officer for Recovery Pathways, created NEW portable treatment center
- Bruce Johnson: Owner of ISP Investigations & Master Sgt. Region One Crime Scene Commander, Chicago Metro Area (Ret)
- Dr. Caryn Stark: NYC Psychologist
- Haley Nelson: Investigative reporter at ABC 6 / FOX 28, Columbus, Ohio
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
A doctor allegedly kills twenty five patients by deliberately prescribing
lethal doses of opioids. It's just too much for me
to take in. I've never in all my years of
me going back and forth to doctors and taking the
twins and my mom and my dad seeing a nurse
(00:26):
challenge the doctor's decision. Wow. What about the twenty five
dead people crime stories with Nancy Grace. Doctor William Husel
(00:48):
is accused in three separate lawsuits of ordering lethal doses
of fentanyl for twenty seven patients who were in intensive
care or near death. Husel and his attorneys have declined
to comment, and no one answered the door at Hustl's
home after we stopped by for a second time this week.
The hospital fired him. In his place, twenty caregivers, including
(01:09):
nurses and pharmacists on leave. Supporters of the nurses have
said some were following doctor's orders, but that's not good enough,
according to Lisa Emrick, with the steelenge a doctor's order
if they think it's wrong, we will use the word
clarify when if wrong, I don't know what wrong means.
The nurse is required to give critical analysis to the
(01:31):
order Okay, so now are we actually blaming the nurse? Wow?
Talk about using a nurse's escape, but you forget about that.
What about the twenty five dead people? I'm Nancy Grace.
This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
A medical doctor is responsible for twenty five deaths. All
(01:51):
Star panel with me right now, Savannah lawyer Mark Tate.
You can find him at Tate Lawgroup dot com. Bruce
Jo's an owner ESP Investigations Master Sergeant, Region one Crime
sing Commander Chicago Metro. That's not a walk in the park.
New York psychologists joining me from Manhattan, Karen Stark, Special
(02:14):
guest Hilly Nelson from ABC six Fox twenty eight Columbus.
But to you, renowned chief medical Examiner, doctor William Moroney,
Bay County, Michigan, who actually created a new portable treatment center.
It's like a giant RV. He created to travel to
(02:36):
combat fentnel and opioid overdose. How can you know after
the first patient kills over dead? Why do they have
to be twenty four more? Doctor Moroney? Don't you people
take it the hippocratic oath we do when some of
us take it very serious. The problem is that there's
a failure in the system that did not identify this
(02:58):
physician with a rogue attitude. The failure in the system
is he should have been checked by nurses and farm
Wait wait, wait, wait, wait, doctor Maroney. Doctor Maroney, you
know what you know how I feel about you and
your whole family. I usually respect every single thing you say.
But I got twenty five dead bodies, twenty five funerals
(03:19):
with families standing around a coffin being lowered into the dirt.
And did you actually just say there was a failure
in the system. Did you actually describe this doctor as
a rogue That is a murderer, not a rogue. He's
a murderer because they redefined the amount of sentinel anything
(03:41):
over fifty milligrams up to like two thousand, and this
should have been checked by the medical Examiner's office. You
have fifty If you have twenty five deaths, you have
twenty five death certificates. And I'll bet that when these
people died in Columbus, originally they were all marked as
(04:01):
natural and in order to come back and prosecute this doctor,
those death certificates have to absolutely have been gone backed
and changed to homicide. Okay, you know what doctor Moroney.
I know you're the MD and I'm just a JD.
But when twenty five people die of opioid overdose, how
(04:24):
can an overdose be natural cause of death? Because they
list the disease to prosecute him, they have to go
back and change these death certificates. Why would anybody even
say it wasn't natural death? Somebody dive an overdose, heart
attack or stroke COPD. That was what they said originally,
and all this fentinel was hidden. It was hidden. Well,
(04:48):
I'm sorry, but doesn't fentel show up in the in
your blood workups and the medical you know, you know
what I need? I need Haley Nelson with me ABC six,
Fox twenty eight Columbus. But Helly, take a listen to
this our friends at NBC four is Dan Pearlman even
three weeks and they were treating him with kid gloves. Listen.
It was January fourteenth the accusations came to light. Mount
(05:11):
Carmel telling us doctor Husel ordered excessive doses of pain
medicine for at least twenty seven patients, a number later
adjusted to at least thirty four patients, many of whom
the hospital says died As a result, Mount Carmel is investigating,
Law enforcement is investigating, but still not a word publicly
from the doctor at the center of this scandal. We've
(05:34):
stopped by his Dublin home several times, including today. No
one answers the door. So I turned to David Stroyer,
an attorney, Where is doctor hughesl Do you know? Well,
I don't know. Yeah, okay, nobody knows, but we know
where all his patients are dead. That was our friend
at NBC four earlier, w b NS ten TV Columbus
(05:55):
been at her barrel, you know, to Haley Nelson, thank
you for taking time to be with us thirty four patients.
I thought they were just the twenty five dead. Where
did the thirty four number figure come from? Elliot? So,
the hospital started identifying patients in twenty nineteen, and they've
also identified up to five patients that they actually think
(06:16):
could have survived. But we found out when the county prosecutor,
when investigators were looking into this case, they decided to
go forward with twenty five of these mortal chargers based
on the dosages, based on the information that they could find,
you know, to Mark Tay, lawyer joining me out of Savannah,
high profile lawyer at Tate Lawgroup dot com Mark Tay.
(06:38):
Very often. I don't think I ever did this, but
very often prosecutors, in order to make a successful case,
will throw out charges they think are too weak to prove.
I prefer to give everything to a jury. If they
want to throw out some, that's their decision. Or maybe
they held out some cases because they thought over time
(07:00):
they could develop them into better prosecutions, so they went
with twenty five. Have you ever seen prosecutors, or even
in civil law, where you paired down your charges to
make a more successful case at trial. Well, that's true, Nancy.
I agree. However, I think it is if a prosecutor
brings a case for which there is insufficient evidence to
(07:22):
get a conviction, and they have other cases against the
same defendant where there is fantastic evidence where clearly you
will get a conviction. I think it's completely acceptable, as
it is in civil cases, and I would love to
have a civil case for all of these poor families
who lost their loved ones. In a civil case, you
want to be as specific as possible because juries, as
(07:45):
you well know, are extremely rigorously testing the value of
your evidence. And if it's not clear to them even
in a civil case. But you know in a criminal case,
it's got to be beyond a reasonable doubt in double cases,
but I promise you the juries don't really know the difference,
and they hold civil cases to a very nearly same standard.
(08:06):
And so we on the civil side prefer to have
a case that is extremely specific, that is well put
together and can absolutely pierce the heart of your pleading. Well,
you know, when you've got thirty four alleged victims and
only twenty five are named in a criminal indictment, I
wonder how that makes the other nine alleged victims feel.
(08:28):
Take a lesson to Franklin County Prosecutor. Ron I was
contacted by a lawyer representing Mount Carmel Hospital at that time.
He indicated a need to meet that same day, a
need to disclose troubling information they had discovered regarding a
doctor who later was identified as William Hussell, who had
(08:49):
been administering doses of Fenton all at a level that
they internally believed were inappropriate and not for a legitimate
medical purpose, and which they also believed were designed to
hasten the death of the patients that were being treated
(09:21):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. On December seventh, eighteen, the
homicide cold case received information indicating numerous patients had died
while being treated by doctor William Scott Huesel during the
course of his employment at Mount Carmel Health. Detectives began
(09:41):
investigating the circumstances surrounding the death of at least thirty
five patients, and this has been the primary driver of
the cold case homicide unit for the past seven months.
Detectives reviewed approximately thirty thousand pages of documents, consulted with
medical professionals, and conducted numerous interviews with witnesses and family
(10:03):
members of the deceased. A significant challenge unique to this
investigation is that detectives needed to familiarize themselves with medical records, terminologies, practices,
and procedures in order to understand the difference between treatment
and criminal activity. What you were just hearing the Columbus,
Ohio Chief of Police, That was Thomas Quinlan. He said,
(10:25):
thirty five patient death. So it's not twenty four, it's
not thirty four, it's thirty five. That's that we know of.
I wonder where this guy practice medicine before he was here.
Whoe thirty five patient deaths. Maybe I don't understand how
(10:45):
things work at a medical office. To doctor William Moroney,
chief Medical Examiner, Bay County, Michigan. And he even created
a new portable RV opioid treatment center on his own.
You can read his book America Narcan on Amazon. You know,
doctor William Moroney, not one nurse, not one physician assistant.
(11:10):
Nobody noticed what about all those people? Shouldn't they be
underscrutiny as well? There's a tremendous amount of humorous and
arrogance that comes with this kind of activity from a physician,
and it intimidates other people. He comes in from Cleveland Clinic,
(11:30):
which is probably one of the five top treatment centers
in America. But his fundamental flaw in his thinking is
in intensive care. Everybody usually has trained in internal medicine,
and his background was in anesthesia, so he did not
understand the chronic disease and that some of these people
(11:51):
may have recovered. Plus, the doses he was using were insane,
five hundred to two thousand micrograms of fentanyl. Nobody uses
those kind of doses. And then to make the decision
that he was doing comfort care, it says comfort care.
(12:13):
Comfort care is what's acknowledged for hospice patients when they
have no alternative and they're suffering in pain, and you
give them a dose that the primary disease may be
the cause of their demise, and that's comfort care. Fentanyl
was the cause of their demise. The inappropriate use, the
(12:36):
inappropriate dosage, and his training. You cannot excuse the hospital
for not checking out his background. And this is just
such a failure, a major failure. And I love Columbus.
I'm in Columbus every year. I go down there and
teach at the medical college. I eat at the restaurants.
It's a wonderful place. But this person came in like
(13:00):
the devil. You know what, doctor Moroney. Again, don't you
know how much I respect you and I'm happy to
hear about your eating habits when you are in Columbus
and the restaurants you go to. But this guy gave
fednel in crazy amounts without any consent. The people probably
didn't even know that they were getting it. I mean,
(13:20):
the reality is the lawyer who represented top Mom Casey Anthony, said,
the charges are baffling, and what do you make of
the claim that this was comfort care for dying patients,
doctor Moroney. None of these patients were acknowledged or represented
as hospice patients. He crossed interdisciplinary boundaries by using hospice
(13:45):
rules for comfort care in normal ICEU conditions. That's unforgivable.
Thirty five patient deaths related to this doctor, this evil doctor,
doctor William Hughesel, just forty four years old, but somehow
in the indictment only twenty five deaths were represented. Listen
(14:05):
to the Chief of Police, Thomas Quinlan. The investigators appreciate
the cooperation of the family members and credit their assistance
with leading to today's indictment. The investigation revealed probable cause
linking twenty five deaths that were a direct result of
a noun therapeutic dosis of drugs, including fetanol, that doctor
William Scott Usel ordered to be administered in excess of
(14:29):
medical standards. I want to also credit the cooperation received
by the medical pharmacy and nursing boards that without their
key guidance to investigators, the outcome would be extremely difficult.
It is our sincere hope the families of these victims
will find solace by the State of Ohio holding doctor
(14:50):
Eusel accountable for his devious conduct to Hanley Nelson, joining
US ABC six, Fox twenty eight Columbus investigative reporter, Hanley,
I do get it. One death, yes, I can understand
the nurses did not realize what Husel was doing. But
after that, we have thirty four more deaths related to
(15:11):
his prescribing finnel until the people were dead, Hally, how
come nobody, no nursing staff, no overseer, no, no, anybody
did anything, Hally. And that's the big question. Why didn't
that happen? And since we've seen massive fallout at the hospital,
Nancy the CEO have stepped down. Pharmacists and nurses are
(15:32):
facing possible discipline. They said, there just really weren't any
safeguards in place. There weren't reviews in place after the
deaths of these people. But again, Haley, I get it.
After the first death and maybe that's when it came
to light, But then there were two, then three, then
thirty five. What were they doing with their thumbs up
(15:54):
their rear ends for thirty four deaths? And that's been
what the community has been reacting to in a lot
of ways. Folks are upset, Folks are angry, and they're
asking the same questions you are, how could this happen?
And the hospital haven't really had an answer for that,
and they claim now that they've changed policies, but that
exact question you're asking, that's their answer. Oh please, Helen Nelson,
(16:18):
you know that stinks to high Heaven or Brucey Johnson
owner ESP Investigations, no stranger to a crime. Seeing Bruce Johnson,
twenty people were suspended. Suspension, that's nothing. They can now
go out and get another job, or they even go
back to their old job. Suspended doesn't mean fired, and
(16:39):
to hey, we're getting fired. If they had anything to
do with this, if they knew about it, they had
a duty to act, they should be prosecuted. To Bruce Johnson,
they can't hide behind their nurses uniforms, and the CEO
can't hide behind a fancy suit. Oh no, I don't
care if he's stepped down. They all need to face
(16:59):
criminal Prosecu's correct, and the good news is in this
case there's gonna be plenty of evidence to go through
and and track this h if you obviously the doctor
prescribes it, but each nurse has that responsibility to question
the prescription. So I mean, you look through the cases.
One that popped up was a sixty three year old
(17:20):
woman that was just not feeling well and he ends
up prescribing a thousand micrograms. Why wouldn't the nurse question,
you know, an easy case like that, that's just a
slam duncan. But all these nurses, when the doctor prescribes
the descript the nurse has to go and get it.
(17:43):
So where they're going, each each floor for the intensive
care and the emergency has a pharmasell, and the pharmasell
has control access and sometimes it even has a password.
So the question of who went in and out to
get to prescribe medication isn't going to be an issue.
They should have that. Plus there there possibly could be
(18:03):
cameras um in or near that cell. So and from
what I'm understanding, the nurses aren't denying it, So none
of that is really going to be um question. They're
they're admitting there that they're getting this this doc. The
question is why are they agreeing to this and why
aren't they questioning him? And this goes all the way
(18:24):
up to the top, Like your one guest said, all
the way to the CEO that that resign there has
to be some underlying issues. You're not kidding, Bruce Johnson.
The fish steaks at the head, and the head would
be the CEO time stories with Nancy Grace. We currently
(19:00):
don't have a motive other than but the facts would
indicate that fentanyl and the amounts shown on the chart
that exceed five hundred micrograms hold a medical personnel we
have talked to at Mount Carmel, as you might suspect,
we've talked to some expert medical witnesses we would propose
(19:22):
to utilize at a subsequent trial. We have been advised
that amounts in excess of five hundred micrograms will cause
any person who's not on a breathing ventilator to see
breathing and to cause their death. You just heard the
Franklin County Prosecutor n O'Brien, doctor William Moroney. You know,
(19:43):
sometimes I guess you confused with lawyers because it's really
hard for some people to answer in a yes no.
But you just heard the prosecutor O'Brien state that yeah,
and yet anything over five hundred micrograms would cause any
one not already on a ventilator to cease breathing. Is
(20:05):
that true? Absolutely, it's one hundred percent true. Kenny prescribed
over two thousand. He prescribed over two thousand and five
hundred makes you stop breathing? Karen start joining me and
New York psychologists joining us at Karen Stark dot com. Karen,
(20:25):
this isn't making the families feel any better that you've
got the CEO and all the nurses hiding behind their uniforms,
and the CEO behind his Brooks Brothers suit. Only the
doctor has been charging. Yes he should be charged, but
how do you believe nurses, physicians, assistance, even the pharmacist
(20:45):
stood by and saw, you know, basically homicide level prescriptions
going through their hospital pharmacy. They're not going to code well, obviously, Nancy,
it's horrific. And you're talking about someone who was a
serial killer, an undetected serial killer, somebody who was playing god.
(21:06):
And what's interesting, because you hear so often how doctors
feel like they're God, is that these people that worked
underneath them, the nurse's assistance, they were also acting as though, well,
the doctor said so, and he knows better than I do.
So it's this whole myth that you have to give
(21:27):
the doctor's power and that they know what they're doing,
and people comply, and it's gone on before. This isn't
the first time that a doctor or a nurse has
been a serial killer and able to get away with
it because they're doing something a subterfuge and they're doing
it non violently. In the classic sent Okay, guys, I
(21:49):
want you. I hope you're all sitting down, because this
is actually not doctor William Haesel's first brush with the law.
Take a listen our pens at NBC for Columbus. Records
from the State Medical Board show that Husel fully disclosed
his criminal history and promised to do better. I learned
my lesson and will never make those types of mistakes again,
(22:10):
he wrote to the board in twenty thirteen. Husel, who
was a basketball star in high school, describes that time
as being a big fish in a small pond, but
when he got to college at Wheeling, Jesuit in nineteen
ninety four, that all changed. Husel and another student reportedly
committed a series of car break ins stealing stereo equipment,
(22:32):
according to a presentence investigation report, After one of the
victims reported their names to campus security, Husel and another
student built a pipe bomb. The report says they initially
intended to detonate the pipe bomb under the vehicle of
one of the students. Instead, they put the bomb in
a trash can on campus, where it detonated just outside
(22:54):
a campus building. Usel was sentenced to six months in
a halfway house and a year of probation. What, Haley Nelson,
ABC six, Fox twenty eight Columbus, What did I just
hear he did time behind bars for detonating a pipe bob? What? Yes, absolutely,
federal churches. This all came to light after we had
(23:15):
found out about multiple of these patients in this entire situation.
So in nineteen ninety six June of nineteen ninety six,
he was indicted by a federal grand jury in West Virginia.
But after this he did go on, obviously to get
into medical school, continue on to the Cleveland clinic and
then to Mount Carlo. Okay, I'm having a hard time
taking this in, doctor William Moroney. Now you know how
(23:37):
lawyers can be. There's a reason lawyers have a bad
reputation if you're caught doing anything. At least where I
went to law school at Mercer University and NYU you
were out on your fanny, out out with prejudice. How
in the hey can a doctor get in to medical school,
(23:59):
get into the Cleveland clinic and end up at this hospital?
Thirty five people dad connected to him, and he detonated
a pipe bomb back in ninety six. And let me
tell you something, Maroni, I benefit. It takes a lot
to get the fans off their rear ends and bring
a charge. They want an air tight case and they
can take them years to put it together, but they
(24:20):
got it on this guy. He did jail time. Help me, MARONEI, Well,
I gotta tell you is the foundation of medical education
can be just as incorrupt and competent as organized crime.
If he's a really good looking guy and he interviews
for medical school, they're gonna let him in. If he's
a salesman, he is a good handshake and a couple
(24:40):
of good grades, they're gonna let him in. Nobody looks
in the past, nobody digs this stuff up. And there's
tons of doctors like this all over and in every state.
There are doctors that are incompetent that should not be
delivering fentanyl. We just it's a sad day for Columbus
(25:02):
that it was brought here. Let me understand something thing. Okay,
doctor William Ronney, I want you to hear this. Haley
Nelson with me ABC six Fox twenty eight Columbus, Haley.
Where did he go to medical school? And where did
he practice? Who did the medical board know about them
this charge, this conviction when they allowed him to practice medicine, Nancy,
(25:25):
they did. And in a lot of cases, when he
was getting into medical school, as you heard in that
clip earlier, he wrote a letter apologizing, explaining, and that's
how he got into that medical school, of course, which
was here in Ohio, Ohio University. And after getting in there,
he was able, of course to climb the ladder continue
on with his career. Let me understand something. So Ohio
(25:46):
University Medical School let him in with a felony conviction.
Is that right? That's our understanding? Yeah? Yeah, okay? And
where did he first practice? So it was his first hospital?
Do we know? After going to medical school, he then
went up to the Cleveland Clinic for a number of
years trained up there, and then he started working at
Mount Carmel in twenty thirteen. And you're saying Mount Carmel
(26:10):
Hospital and is that located in Mount Carmel. So it's
in West Columbus at least the branch he was at.
Primarily all of these patients other than one were in
this West Columbus as the neighborhood called Franklinton. So the
majority of this all playing out there from twenty fourteen
to just twenty eighteen, So all very very recent. Mark Tate,
lawyer joining me out of Savannah at Tait Lawgroup dot com.
(26:31):
Mark Tate, I can't look my doctor's in the face now.
I'm going to go run a rap sheet on every
single one of them. The last thing I want to
see is some doctor who detonated a pipe bob hovering
over me or somebody in my family. How the hey
does that happen? I mean, Mark, where did you go
to law schools? I went to the University of Georgia
School of Law. And I assume that they check out
(26:54):
whether you have a felony conviction, and if they don't,
then certainly Georgia barr does. I mean that. I thought
when everybody with a fine tooth comb, they do. And
you know in this instance in state barbs, the myra
are in every time I made an objection in court.
So how does this problem? He? Yes, it certainly is, Mark,
(27:17):
How did this happen? I think that well, first of all,
you know, detonating pipe bombs, getting that mental picture out
of your mind. Detonating pipe bombs, uh, really doesn't indicate
any lack of lack of medical judgment. But they should
have absolutely investigated that and taken into account. And we, frankly,
(27:40):
at this point, do not know whether that happened. He
blamed it on you. We don't know whether what don't
know whether they investigated him in passing. We don't know
if they need should they run rap she should have?
Absolutely they run it on lawyers. And what are we well,
I mean we're not. We have life in death in
(28:00):
her hands. But we clearly have a higher ethical standard
of practice law than to practice medicine, and I think
this case bears that out. Okay, you know, I'm sorry
that I'd hurt my throat when I screamed time stories
(28:27):
with Nancy Grace. But they finally got her to where
she could be on her own, but with help of
the machine. But she could be on her own, I
mean on her own, but with help of the machine.
So everything seemed to be okay, you know, but they
(28:47):
want to take her up to ICEE. You what, she've
been there before, so I thought, everything, it's gonna be okay.
They took her upstairs, and then I'll come this joker
saying that she had a joker you're talking about doctor Hunsel. Yeah,
he said that she's brain dead and the machine is
(29:10):
she had no machine wouldn't bring her back, and uh,
her lungs wouldn't wouldn't bring her back in and then
I lost her. Oh, dear Lord in heaven you are
(29:31):
hearing Columbus Dispatch reporter Jim Woods. That was David Austin
describing his wife Bonnie. She was stabilized in the ear.
Everything was fine. They took her up to ICU and
suddenly out cubs doctor Husel saying that Bonnie is brain dead.
(29:55):
Oh my stars, oh gosh. I don't even want my
mind to go where it is going. Karen Starr, of course,
you know what I'm imagining that happening to somebody I love.
Everything's fine, and then all of a sudden, their brain dad,
and if you unplaying the machine, they die. But everything
(30:16):
was fine. How can the mind, a human mind even
comprehend that well, Nancy, I mean, that's so hard to
take in, just like you're saying, that's heartbreaking, and it's
very hard to make sense of something like that. And
it's another reason why you could see that this person
that committed this crime is a killer, not someone who's
(30:37):
performing mercy, because here's somebody who was fine and then
all of a sudden gets killed for no reason other
than someone had the power to be able to do that.
And they've got to come to terms with the fact
that there a person to die for absolutely no reason
other than someone was a psycho path You know, um,
(31:02):
I may not be a medical doctor William Maroney, doctor Maroney,
but I can add although it's not my forte, I
know it too. And two equals. Listen to this, you know,
you always think because if something else happened, because I
couldn't figure the doctor down stairs in the yard said
she was fine, just her heart was working fine, and
(31:27):
he just a very short time and she goes up
to me, I see you and nothing just not that
don't make sense. When he said she was branded, what
did he did? He ask you something specifically? Then then
he said he pull the plug. He the doctor says, quote,
(31:50):
can we pull the plug? Now? Take a listen to
the lawyer. They get hurt of the hospital around seven
thirty seven pm. Then they go through the emergency room
called the surgeon down. You know, take here the numa
thax with a chess tube had. She goes up to
ICU at eleven fifteen. The pharmacist signs off on the
(32:13):
fentanyl dosage. At eleven twenty three, six hundred micrograms the
fentanyl were given along with first said. Then the notes
show at eleven twenty eight. Was then at eleven twenty
eight that the family decided to make a withdrawal of care.
So apparently it was five minutes after the six hundred
(32:36):
he was actually the fentanyl was given to her before well,
I'm just telling you about the record show at eleven
twenty three eight the fentanyl was given at eleven twenty eight.
It's noted that the family made a decision to withdrawal care.
WHOA okay, doctor Moroni, everything's fine or hard is working?
Quote fine? According to the doctors she sent to I
(32:58):
see you in tens of care. Fifteen pharmacists signed the
fentnyl dosage eleven twenty three, six hundred micrograms. The fentnyl
pumped in to this lady, even though you and I know,
over five hundred micrograms makes you stop breathing. And then
just eight minutes later, less than eight minutes later, she's
(33:20):
brain dead. I mean she's brain dead almost immediately at
eleven twenty three when they pump her full of fentyl. Well,
it works that quickly, doctor Moroni. Yeah. And if you
listen real close to what he said, they gave fentanyl
with versid. Versaid is a benzodiazepine, and together they're used
(33:41):
in anesthesio put people asleep for surgery and to intubate them.
That's what was given. A deadly combination, not just fentanyl.
This is a godless, soul sucking system that has lost
all of its checks and balances, from the top through
the pharmacists, through the computer, all the way down to
when the medications given there's not enough balance. We forget
(34:06):
that our power comes from God, not from a doctor's
scrooping and yelling in pointing orders such to Maroney, I'm
just so distraught to Healing Nelson, ABC six, Fox twenty eight, Columbus.
When I hear the voice of David Austin, who can't
understand what went wrong, and now we know that his
(34:29):
wife was pumped so full of fentnel she died in minutes.
I think the whole hospital needs to answer whether it
brings down the walls around us. The truth must be obtained.
Another thing I don't understand is why they are refusing
(34:50):
to call him a serial killer. We have thirty five
dead people, twenty five have resulted in murdered charges. Why
are they not calling him a serial killer? Well, we
have heard our State of Ohio Attorney General actually call
him a serial killer publicly, but they believe because they
don't have the conviction yet, they're not comfortable doing that.
(35:14):
And Nancy, it's interesting just recently we've gotten a glimpse
into perhaps what they could argue, or at least what
his attorneys are saying right now in a different lawsuit.
So the doctor Husel, he just filed a lawsuit recently
against the hospital and other groups, and they're claiming that
he's being defamed, perhaps the largest defamation case in recent
Ohio history. They say because he was trained at the
(35:35):
Cleveland Clinic and has this background in anesthesiology and critical care.
They say he was actually determining the right dosages for
each of these patients. They're claiming that these patients had
a high tolerance for these drugs and that he was
doing what was right. Well, if it was the right dosage,
why did they all die of overdose? Here? Only that
doesn't make any sense to me, So you think they're
(35:58):
they so far, the prosecutors not called serial killer because
there are no convictions, when obviously he is a serial killer.
And to you, Karen Stark, do you think if it's
the profile of a serial killer without a doubt? Nancy,
I mean the power, it's sadistic. There is really no
reason for why he was doing it that has to
(36:21):
do with anything that's medical. And what a convenient way
to be serial killer because he doesn't have to do
anything that's violent. All he has to do is administer
the drug and get away with it. We also know
that he was freed on one million dollar bond, but
of course Heley and Elsie you only have to put
up a hundred thousand dollars for that with twenty five
(36:43):
counts of murder. I don't understand why he even got bond.
Why did the judge given bond That's what a lot
of our viewers were shocked about and asking. But they
said they were following their procedures, and a lot of
the families, of course very upset and devastated by by
all of this, but they said they were following the
(37:03):
procedures laid out ahead of that. So let me understand
in that jurisdiction, you get bond for murder, you can't
get a no bond for twenty five dead bodies. It
depends on the situation. I think two. With the timing
of a lot of this, we know because they're requesting
medical records and going over so many of these documents,
it's certainly a long time process, and I think perhaps
(37:24):
that may have played into all of this. You know,
to me, it makes it worse Mark Tay because they've
had time to realize the extent of his activity, his murders.
Now he's filed a defamation a lawsuit I guess against
the hospital, Is that right, Hallie Nelson? Recently, yes, he
has filed a lot is it against the hospital, the hospital,
their parent company, former CEO, among others. The hospital is
(37:48):
Mount Carmel Hospital, the CEO, and who's the parent company's
Trinity Health out of Michigan. So do you think Mark
Tay that he doctor huselis file the civil lawsuit as
part of his defense strategy. You know, it's a ridiculous thing.
The hospital has said nothing but the truth about him.
(38:10):
I think it's a tragic failure of legal strategy to
let this man facing these charges swipe back at this
hospital nothing they've said against him. It is true. They've
never said that he's guilty of a crime, which is
libel and slander per se. They are simply stating that
(38:30):
we have confirmed if these are the levels of drugs
that he dosed, and the individuals who he dosed with
those drugs have died, and that's the truth. So it's
a stupid lawsuit. Whatever lawyer filed it, I guess was
just taking Husel's money or was trying to grab some headlines,
maybe to boost his or her practice down the line.
But I can't imagine any lawyer I know, and I
(38:54):
know some good lawyers, I cannot imagine anyone advising miss
Fellow that it's a good idea to file a slander
liable deformation lawsuit against the place that may be able
to actually help you in defending yourself, because remember he
is the guy who prescribed the drugs. Their nurses are
(39:14):
the ones who filled the prescriptions. He had to bypass
a drug dispensing system in order to be able to
get these drugs. There's so many other people to blame
here for what happened, and all he's done is sparked
their ire to come out against him, you know, with
all talents bared. And so if he came to me
(39:35):
and asked me to file this lawsuit, I would tell
him your stupid, your hubrists is causing you to think unclearly.
And just because you got your medical degree and your
board certified and anesthesiology which is which is a legitimate
pain management degree and certification, that doesn't mean you need
to come out swinging at them. You need to be timid,
(39:56):
you need to be calm. You need to be saying,
I exercise what was my best medical judgment, and I
should have had more backups if I was making the
wrong judgment. Hospitals have a policy that says nurses are
in fact required to go up the chain of command
if they question the constructions are given. And the truth
is that a nurse has the same exact duty to
(40:19):
you and that is to act with reasonable care towards
the patient. And if the doctor's doing something that you
knew or should have known is incorrect, to go to
the charge nurse and to go up the chain to
the chief position. But do you think there's any way,
doctor Moroney, he can blame the nurses and get off. Well,
he can say, hey, I gave the order. If she
didn't want to give it, she didn't have to give it.
(40:40):
She could have said something, you know, but the nurse
has a procedure and if she clarifies that is his order.
She has a director of nursing, she has a manager nursing. Somewhere.
Somebody called somebody and said, hey, there's something going on here,
But it didn't happen until all these people died, and
it was outside of the hospital. This kind of investigation
(41:03):
could have happened inside of the hospital because a nurse
with some gravitas would have said, I'm not giving that order.
And at once they say that somebody has to look
in and see the past, and they would have seen
how many people are dying at the hands of a
(41:23):
fentil injection and it's going to be multiple nurses. But
they were working in silos and they were isolated, so
it's a failure of communication in this whole system. He's
at the top and that hubris is the perfect word.
And earlier on their pipe bomb indictment and conviction, Hailey
(41:44):
Nelson told us about remember this, the twice divorced doctor
Husel admitted that after he detonated device on campus, he
tried to frame another person by putting a pipe in
their car. So not only did he detonate a pipe bomb,
(42:04):
he tried to blame somebody else, and that is who
the hospital had working on their patients. We wait as
justice unfolds Nancy Gray's crime story, signing off Goodbye friend,
A doctor allegedly kills twenty five patients by deliberately prescribing
lethal doses of opioids. It's just too much for me
to take in. I've never in all my years of
me going back and forth to doctors and taking the
twins and my mom and my dad seeing a nurse
(00:26):
challenge the doctor's decision. Wow. What about the twenty five
dead people crime stories with Nancy Grace. Doctor William Husel
(00:48):
is accused in three separate lawsuits of ordering lethal doses
of fentanyl for twenty seven patients who were in intensive
care or near death. Husel and his attorneys have declined
to comment, and no one answered the door at Hustl's
home after we stopped by for a second time this week.
The hospital fired him. In his place, twenty caregivers, including
(01:09):
nurses and pharmacists on leave. Supporters of the nurses have
said some were following doctor's orders, but that's not good enough,
according to Lisa Emrick, with the steelenge a doctor's order
if they think it's wrong, we will use the word
clarify when if wrong, I don't know what wrong means.
The nurse is required to give critical analysis to the
(01:31):
order Okay, so now are we actually blaming the nurse? Wow?
Talk about using a nurse's escape, but you forget about that.
What about the twenty five dead people? I'm Nancy Grace.
This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
A medical doctor is responsible for twenty five deaths. All
(01:51):
Star panel with me right now, Savannah lawyer Mark Tate.
You can find him at Tate Lawgroup dot com. Bruce
Jo's an owner ESP Investigations Master Sergeant, Region one Crime
sing Commander Chicago Metro. That's not a walk in the park.
New York psychologists joining me from Manhattan, Karen Stark, Special
(02:14):
guest Hilly Nelson from ABC six Fox twenty eight Columbus.
But to you, renowned chief medical Examiner, doctor William Moroney,
Bay County, Michigan, who actually created a new portable treatment center.
It's like a giant RV. He created to travel to
(02:36):
combat fentnel and opioid overdose. How can you know after
the first patient kills over dead? Why do they have
to be twenty four more? Doctor Moroney? Don't you people
take it the hippocratic oath we do when some of
us take it very serious. The problem is that there's
a failure in the system that did not identify this
(02:58):
physician with a rogue attitude. The failure in the system
is he should have been checked by nurses and farm
Wait wait, wait, wait, wait, doctor Maroney. Doctor Maroney, you
know what you know how I feel about you and
your whole family. I usually respect every single thing you say.
But I got twenty five dead bodies, twenty five funerals
(03:19):
with families standing around a coffin being lowered into the dirt.
And did you actually just say there was a failure
in the system. Did you actually describe this doctor as
a rogue That is a murderer, not a rogue. He's
a murderer because they redefined the amount of sentinel anything
(03:41):
over fifty milligrams up to like two thousand, and this
should have been checked by the medical Examiner's office. You
have fifty If you have twenty five deaths, you have
twenty five death certificates. And I'll bet that when these
people died in Columbus, originally they were all marked as
(04:01):
natural and in order to come back and prosecute this doctor,
those death certificates have to absolutely have been gone backed
and changed to homicide. Okay, you know what doctor Moroney.
I know you're the MD and I'm just a JD.
But when twenty five people die of opioid overdose, how
(04:24):
can an overdose be natural cause of death? Because they
list the disease to prosecute him, they have to go
back and change these death certificates. Why would anybody even
say it wasn't natural death? Somebody dive an overdose, heart
attack or stroke COPD. That was what they said originally,
and all this fentinel was hidden. It was hidden. Well,
(04:48):
I'm sorry, but doesn't fentel show up in the in
your blood workups and the medical you know, you know
what I need? I need Haley Nelson with me ABC six,
Fox twenty eight Columbus. But Helly, take a listen to
this our friends at NBC four is Dan Pearlman even
three weeks and they were treating him with kid gloves. Listen.
It was January fourteenth the accusations came to light. Mount
(05:11):
Carmel telling us doctor Husel ordered excessive doses of pain
medicine for at least twenty seven patients, a number later
adjusted to at least thirty four patients, many of whom
the hospital says died As a result, Mount Carmel is investigating,
Law enforcement is investigating, but still not a word publicly
from the doctor at the center of this scandal. We've
(05:34):
stopped by his Dublin home several times, including today. No
one answers the door. So I turned to David Stroyer,
an attorney, Where is doctor hughesl Do you know? Well,
I don't know. Yeah, okay, nobody knows, but we know
where all his patients are dead. That was our friend
at NBC four earlier, w b NS ten TV Columbus
(05:55):
been at her barrel, you know, to Haley Nelson, thank
you for taking time to be with us thirty four patients.
I thought they were just the twenty five dead. Where
did the thirty four number figure come from? Elliot? So,
the hospital started identifying patients in twenty nineteen, and they've
also identified up to five patients that they actually think
(06:16):
could have survived. But we found out when the county prosecutor,
when investigators were looking into this case, they decided to
go forward with twenty five of these mortal chargers based
on the dosages, based on the information that they could find,
you know, to Mark Tay, lawyer joining me out of Savannah,
high profile lawyer at Tate Lawgroup dot com Mark Tay.
(06:38):
Very often. I don't think I ever did this, but
very often prosecutors, in order to make a successful case,
will throw out charges they think are too weak to prove.
I prefer to give everything to a jury. If they
want to throw out some, that's their decision. Or maybe
they held out some cases because they thought over time
(07:00):
they could develop them into better prosecutions, so they went
with twenty five. Have you ever seen prosecutors, or even
in civil law, where you paired down your charges to
make a more successful case at trial. Well, that's true, Nancy.
I agree. However, I think it is if a prosecutor
brings a case for which there is insufficient evidence to
(07:22):
get a conviction, and they have other cases against the
same defendant where there is fantastic evidence where clearly you
will get a conviction. I think it's completely acceptable, as
it is in civil cases, and I would love to
have a civil case for all of these poor families
who lost their loved ones. In a civil case, you
want to be as specific as possible because juries, as
(07:45):
you well know, are extremely rigorously testing the value of
your evidence. And if it's not clear to them even
in a civil case. But you know in a criminal case,
it's got to be beyond a reasonable doubt in double cases,
but I promise you the juries don't really know the difference,
and they hold civil cases to a very nearly same standard.
(08:06):
And so we on the civil side prefer to have
a case that is extremely specific, that is well put
together and can absolutely pierce the heart of your pleading. Well,
you know, when you've got thirty four alleged victims and
only twenty five are named in a criminal indictment, I
wonder how that makes the other nine alleged victims feel.
(08:28):
Take a lesson to Franklin County Prosecutor. Ron I was
contacted by a lawyer representing Mount Carmel Hospital at that time.
He indicated a need to meet that same day, a
need to disclose troubling information they had discovered regarding a
doctor who later was identified as William Hussell, who had
(08:49):
been administering doses of Fenton all at a level that
they internally believed were inappropriate and not for a legitimate
medical purpose, and which they also believed were designed to
hasten the death of the patients that were being treated
(09:21):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. On December seventh, eighteen, the
homicide cold case received information indicating numerous patients had died
while being treated by doctor William Scott Huesel during the
course of his employment at Mount Carmel Health. Detectives began
(09:41):
investigating the circumstances surrounding the death of at least thirty
five patients, and this has been the primary driver of
the cold case homicide unit for the past seven months.
Detectives reviewed approximately thirty thousand pages of documents, consulted with
medical professionals, and conducted numerous interviews with witnesses and family
(10:03):
members of the deceased. A significant challenge unique to this
investigation is that detectives needed to familiarize themselves with medical records, terminologies, practices,
and procedures in order to understand the difference between treatment
and criminal activity. What you were just hearing the Columbus,
Ohio Chief of Police, That was Thomas Quinlan. He said,
(10:25):
thirty five patient death. So it's not twenty four, it's
not thirty four, it's thirty five. That's that we know of.
I wonder where this guy practice medicine before he was here.
Whoe thirty five patient deaths. Maybe I don't understand how
(10:45):
things work at a medical office. To doctor William Moroney,
chief Medical Examiner, Bay County, Michigan. And he even created
a new portable RV opioid treatment center on his own.
You can read his book America Narcan on Amazon. You know,
doctor William Moroney, not one nurse, not one physician assistant.
(11:10):
Nobody noticed what about all those people? Shouldn't they be
underscrutiny as well? There's a tremendous amount of humorous and
arrogance that comes with this kind of activity from a physician,
and it intimidates other people. He comes in from Cleveland Clinic,
(11:30):
which is probably one of the five top treatment centers
in America. But his fundamental flaw in his thinking is
in intensive care. Everybody usually has trained in internal medicine,
and his background was in anesthesia, so he did not
understand the chronic disease and that some of these people
(11:51):
may have recovered. Plus, the doses he was using were insane,
five hundred to two thousand micrograms of fentanyl. Nobody uses
those kind of doses. And then to make the decision
that he was doing comfort care, it says comfort care.
(12:13):
Comfort care is what's acknowledged for hospice patients when they
have no alternative and they're suffering in pain, and you
give them a dose that the primary disease may be
the cause of their demise, and that's comfort care. Fentanyl
was the cause of their demise. The inappropriate use, the
(12:36):
inappropriate dosage, and his training. You cannot excuse the hospital
for not checking out his background. And this is just
such a failure, a major failure. And I love Columbus.
I'm in Columbus every year. I go down there and
teach at the medical college. I eat at the restaurants.
It's a wonderful place. But this person came in like
(13:00):
the devil. You know what, doctor Moroney. Again, don't you
know how much I respect you and I'm happy to
hear about your eating habits when you are in Columbus
and the restaurants you go to. But this guy gave
fednel in crazy amounts without any consent. The people probably
didn't even know that they were getting it. I mean,
(13:20):
the reality is the lawyer who represented top Mom Casey Anthony, said,
the charges are baffling, and what do you make of
the claim that this was comfort care for dying patients,
doctor Moroney. None of these patients were acknowledged or represented
as hospice patients. He crossed interdisciplinary boundaries by using hospice
(13:45):
rules for comfort care in normal ICEU conditions. That's unforgivable.
Thirty five patient deaths related to this doctor, this evil doctor,
doctor William Hughesel, just forty four years old, but somehow
in the indictment only twenty five deaths were represented. Listen
(14:05):
to the Chief of Police, Thomas Quinlan. The investigators appreciate
the cooperation of the family members and credit their assistance
with leading to today's indictment. The investigation revealed probable cause
linking twenty five deaths that were a direct result of
a noun therapeutic dosis of drugs, including fetanol, that doctor
William Scott Usel ordered to be administered in excess of
(14:29):
medical standards. I want to also credit the cooperation received
by the medical pharmacy and nursing boards that without their
key guidance to investigators, the outcome would be extremely difficult.
It is our sincere hope the families of these victims
will find solace by the State of Ohio holding doctor
(14:50):
Eusel accountable for his devious conduct to Hanley Nelson, joining
US ABC six, Fox twenty eight Columbus investigative reporter, Hanley,
I do get it. One death, yes, I can understand
the nurses did not realize what Husel was doing. But
after that, we have thirty four more deaths related to
(15:11):
his prescribing finnel until the people were dead, Hally, how
come nobody, no nursing staff, no overseer, no, no, anybody
did anything, Hally. And that's the big question. Why didn't
that happen? And since we've seen massive fallout at the hospital,
Nancy the CEO have stepped down. Pharmacists and nurses are
(15:32):
facing possible discipline. They said, there just really weren't any
safeguards in place. There weren't reviews in place after the
deaths of these people. But again, Haley, I get it.
After the first death and maybe that's when it came
to light, But then there were two, then three, then
thirty five. What were they doing with their thumbs up
(15:54):
their rear ends for thirty four deaths? And that's been
what the community has been reacting to in a lot
of ways. Folks are upset, Folks are angry, and they're
asking the same questions you are, how could this happen?
And the hospital haven't really had an answer for that,
and they claim now that they've changed policies, but that
exact question you're asking, that's their answer. Oh please, Helen Nelson,
(16:18):
you know that stinks to high Heaven or Brucey Johnson
owner ESP Investigations, no stranger to a crime. Seeing Bruce Johnson,
twenty people were suspended. Suspension, that's nothing. They can now
go out and get another job, or they even go
back to their old job. Suspended doesn't mean fired, and
(16:39):
to hey, we're getting fired. If they had anything to
do with this, if they knew about it, they had
a duty to act, they should be prosecuted. To Bruce Johnson,
they can't hide behind their nurses uniforms, and the CEO
can't hide behind a fancy suit. Oh no, I don't
care if he's stepped down. They all need to face
(16:59):
criminal Prosecu's correct, and the good news is in this
case there's gonna be plenty of evidence to go through
and and track this h if you obviously the doctor
prescribes it, but each nurse has that responsibility to question
the prescription. So I mean, you look through the cases.
One that popped up was a sixty three year old
(17:20):
woman that was just not feeling well and he ends
up prescribing a thousand micrograms. Why wouldn't the nurse question,
you know, an easy case like that, that's just a
slam duncan. But all these nurses, when the doctor prescribes
the descript the nurse has to go and get it.
(17:43):
So where they're going, each each floor for the intensive
care and the emergency has a pharmasell, and the pharmasell
has control access and sometimes it even has a password.
So the question of who went in and out to
get to prescribe medication isn't going to be an issue.
They should have that. Plus there there possibly could be
(18:03):
cameras um in or near that cell. So and from
what I'm understanding, the nurses aren't denying it, So none
of that is really going to be um question. They're
they're admitting there that they're getting this this doc. The
question is why are they agreeing to this and why
aren't they questioning him? And this goes all the way
(18:24):
up to the top, Like your one guest said, all
the way to the CEO that that resign there has
to be some underlying issues. You're not kidding, Bruce Johnson.
The fish steaks at the head, and the head would
be the CEO time stories with Nancy Grace. We currently
(19:00):
don't have a motive other than but the facts would
indicate that fentanyl and the amounts shown on the chart
that exceed five hundred micrograms hold a medical personnel we
have talked to at Mount Carmel, as you might suspect,
we've talked to some expert medical witnesses we would propose
(19:22):
to utilize at a subsequent trial. We have been advised
that amounts in excess of five hundred micrograms will cause
any person who's not on a breathing ventilator to see
breathing and to cause their death. You just heard the
Franklin County Prosecutor n O'Brien, doctor William Moroney. You know,
(19:43):
sometimes I guess you confused with lawyers because it's really
hard for some people to answer in a yes no.
But you just heard the prosecutor O'Brien state that yeah,
and yet anything over five hundred micrograms would cause any
one not already on a ventilator to cease breathing. Is
(20:05):
that true? Absolutely, it's one hundred percent true. Kenny prescribed
over two thousand. He prescribed over two thousand and five
hundred makes you stop breathing? Karen start joining me and
New York psychologists joining us at Karen Stark dot com. Karen,
(20:25):
this isn't making the families feel any better that you've
got the CEO and all the nurses hiding behind their uniforms,
and the CEO behind his Brooks Brothers suit. Only the
doctor has been charging. Yes he should be charged, but
how do you believe nurses, physicians, assistance, even the pharmacist
(20:45):
stood by and saw, you know, basically homicide level prescriptions
going through their hospital pharmacy. They're not going to code well, obviously, Nancy,
it's horrific. And you're talking about someone who was a
serial killer, an undetected serial killer, somebody who was playing god.
(21:06):
And what's interesting, because you hear so often how doctors
feel like they're God, is that these people that worked
underneath them, the nurse's assistance, they were also acting as though, well,
the doctor said so, and he knows better than I do.
So it's this whole myth that you have to give
(21:27):
the doctor's power and that they know what they're doing,
and people comply, and it's gone on before. This isn't
the first time that a doctor or a nurse has
been a serial killer and able to get away with
it because they're doing something a subterfuge and they're doing
it non violently. In the classic sent Okay, guys, I
(21:49):
want you. I hope you're all sitting down, because this
is actually not doctor William Haesel's first brush with the law.
Take a listen our pens at NBC for Columbus. Records
from the State Medical Board show that Husel fully disclosed
his criminal history and promised to do better. I learned
my lesson and will never make those types of mistakes again,
(22:10):
he wrote to the board in twenty thirteen. Husel, who
was a basketball star in high school, describes that time
as being a big fish in a small pond, but
when he got to college at Wheeling, Jesuit in nineteen
ninety four, that all changed. Husel and another student reportedly
committed a series of car break ins stealing stereo equipment,
(22:32):
according to a presentence investigation report, After one of the
victims reported their names to campus security, Husel and another
student built a pipe bomb. The report says they initially
intended to detonate the pipe bomb under the vehicle of
one of the students. Instead, they put the bomb in
a trash can on campus, where it detonated just outside
(22:54):
a campus building. Usel was sentenced to six months in
a halfway house and a year of probation. What, Haley Nelson,
ABC six, Fox twenty eight Columbus, What did I just
hear he did time behind bars for detonating a pipe bob? What? Yes, absolutely,
federal churches. This all came to light after we had
(23:15):
found out about multiple of these patients in this entire situation.
So in nineteen ninety six June of nineteen ninety six,
he was indicted by a federal grand jury in West Virginia.
But after this he did go on, obviously to get
into medical school, continue on to the Cleveland clinic and
then to Mount Carlo. Okay, I'm having a hard time
taking this in, doctor William Moroney. Now you know how
(23:37):
lawyers can be. There's a reason lawyers have a bad
reputation if you're caught doing anything. At least where I
went to law school at Mercer University and NYU you
were out on your fanny, out out with prejudice. How
in the hey can a doctor get in to medical school,
(23:59):
get into the Cleveland clinic and end up at this hospital?
Thirty five people dad connected to him, and he detonated
a pipe bomb back in ninety six. And let me
tell you something, Maroni, I benefit. It takes a lot
to get the fans off their rear ends and bring
a charge. They want an air tight case and they
can take them years to put it together, but they
(24:20):
got it on this guy. He did jail time. Help me, MARONEI, Well,
I gotta tell you is the foundation of medical education
can be just as incorrupt and competent as organized crime.
If he's a really good looking guy and he interviews
for medical school, they're gonna let him in. If he's
a salesman, he is a good handshake and a couple
(24:40):
of good grades, they're gonna let him in. Nobody looks
in the past, nobody digs this stuff up. And there's
tons of doctors like this all over and in every state.
There are doctors that are incompetent that should not be
delivering fentanyl. We just it's a sad day for Columbus
(25:02):
that it was brought here. Let me understand something thing. Okay,
doctor William Ronney, I want you to hear this. Haley
Nelson with me ABC six Fox twenty eight Columbus, Haley.
Where did he go to medical school? And where did
he practice? Who did the medical board know about them
this charge, this conviction when they allowed him to practice medicine, Nancy,
(25:25):
they did. And in a lot of cases, when he
was getting into medical school, as you heard in that
clip earlier, he wrote a letter apologizing, explaining, and that's
how he got into that medical school, of course, which
was here in Ohio, Ohio University. And after getting in there,
he was able, of course to climb the ladder continue
on with his career. Let me understand something. So Ohio
(25:46):
University Medical School let him in with a felony conviction.
Is that right? That's our understanding? Yeah? Yeah, okay? And
where did he first practice? So it was his first hospital?
Do we know? After going to medical school, he then
went up to the Cleveland Clinic for a number of
years trained up there, and then he started working at
Mount Carmel in twenty thirteen. And you're saying Mount Carmel
(26:10):
Hospital and is that located in Mount Carmel. So it's
in West Columbus at least the branch he was at.
Primarily all of these patients other than one were in
this West Columbus as the neighborhood called Franklinton. So the
majority of this all playing out there from twenty fourteen
to just twenty eighteen, So all very very recent. Mark Tate,
lawyer joining me out of Savannah at Tait Lawgroup dot com.
(26:31):
Mark Tate, I can't look my doctor's in the face now.
I'm going to go run a rap sheet on every
single one of them. The last thing I want to
see is some doctor who detonated a pipe bob hovering
over me or somebody in my family. How the hey
does that happen? I mean, Mark, where did you go
to law schools? I went to the University of Georgia
School of Law. And I assume that they check out
(26:54):
whether you have a felony conviction, and if they don't,
then certainly Georgia barr does. I mean that. I thought
when everybody with a fine tooth comb, they do. And
you know in this instance in state barbs, the myra
are in every time I made an objection in court.
So how does this problem? He? Yes, it certainly is, Mark,
(27:17):
How did this happen? I think that well, first of all,
you know, detonating pipe bombs, getting that mental picture out
of your mind. Detonating pipe bombs, uh, really doesn't indicate
any lack of lack of medical judgment. But they should
have absolutely investigated that and taken into account. And we, frankly,
(27:40):
at this point, do not know whether that happened. He
blamed it on you. We don't know whether what don't
know whether they investigated him in passing. We don't know
if they need should they run rap she should have?
Absolutely they run it on lawyers. And what are we well,
I mean we're not. We have life in death in
(28:00):
her hands. But we clearly have a higher ethical standard
of practice law than to practice medicine, and I think
this case bears that out. Okay, you know, I'm sorry
that I'd hurt my throat when I screamed time stories
(28:27):
with Nancy Grace. But they finally got her to where
she could be on her own, but with help of
the machine. But she could be on her own, I
mean on her own, but with help of the machine.
So everything seemed to be okay, you know, but they
(28:47):
want to take her up to ICEE. You what, she've
been there before, so I thought, everything, it's gonna be okay.
They took her upstairs, and then I'll come this joker
saying that she had a joker you're talking about doctor Hunsel. Yeah,
he said that she's brain dead and the machine is
(29:10):
she had no machine wouldn't bring her back, and uh,
her lungs wouldn't wouldn't bring her back in and then
I lost her. Oh, dear Lord in heaven you are
(29:31):
hearing Columbus Dispatch reporter Jim Woods. That was David Austin
describing his wife Bonnie. She was stabilized in the ear.
Everything was fine. They took her up to ICU and
suddenly out cubs doctor Husel saying that Bonnie is brain dead.
(29:55):
Oh my stars, oh gosh. I don't even want my
mind to go where it is going. Karen Starr, of course,
you know what I'm imagining that happening to somebody I love.
Everything's fine, and then all of a sudden, their brain dad,
and if you unplaying the machine, they die. But everything
(30:16):
was fine. How can the mind, a human mind even
comprehend that well, Nancy, I mean, that's so hard to
take in, just like you're saying, that's heartbreaking, and it's
very hard to make sense of something like that. And
it's another reason why you could see that this person
that committed this crime is a killer, not someone who's
(30:37):
performing mercy, because here's somebody who was fine and then
all of a sudden gets killed for no reason other
than someone had the power to be able to do that.
And they've got to come to terms with the fact
that there a person to die for absolutely no reason
other than someone was a psycho path You know, um,
(31:02):
I may not be a medical doctor William Maroney, doctor Maroney,
but I can add although it's not my forte, I
know it too. And two equals. Listen to this, you know,
you always think because if something else happened, because I
couldn't figure the doctor down stairs in the yard said
she was fine, just her heart was working fine, and
(31:27):
he just a very short time and she goes up
to me, I see you and nothing just not that
don't make sense. When he said she was branded, what
did he did? He ask you something specifically? Then then
he said he pull the plug. He the doctor says, quote,
(31:50):
can we pull the plug? Now? Take a listen to
the lawyer. They get hurt of the hospital around seven
thirty seven pm. Then they go through the emergency room
called the surgeon down. You know, take here the numa
thax with a chess tube had. She goes up to
ICU at eleven fifteen. The pharmacist signs off on the
(32:13):
fentanyl dosage. At eleven twenty three, six hundred micrograms the
fentanyl were given along with first said. Then the notes
show at eleven twenty eight. Was then at eleven twenty
eight that the family decided to make a withdrawal of care.
So apparently it was five minutes after the six hundred
(32:36):
he was actually the fentanyl was given to her before well,
I'm just telling you about the record show at eleven
twenty three eight the fentanyl was given at eleven twenty eight.
It's noted that the family made a decision to withdrawal care.
WHOA okay, doctor Moroni, everything's fine or hard is working?
Quote fine? According to the doctors she sent to I
(32:58):
see you in tens of care. Fifteen pharmacists signed the
fentnyl dosage eleven twenty three, six hundred micrograms. The fentnyl
pumped in to this lady, even though you and I know,
over five hundred micrograms makes you stop breathing. And then
just eight minutes later, less than eight minutes later, she's
(33:20):
brain dead. I mean she's brain dead almost immediately at
eleven twenty three when they pump her full of fentyl. Well,
it works that quickly, doctor Moroni. Yeah. And if you
listen real close to what he said, they gave fentanyl
with versid. Versaid is a benzodiazepine, and together they're used
(33:41):
in anesthesio put people asleep for surgery and to intubate them.
That's what was given. A deadly combination, not just fentanyl.
This is a godless, soul sucking system that has lost
all of its checks and balances, from the top through
the pharmacists, through the computer, all the way down to
when the medications given there's not enough balance. We forget
(34:06):
that our power comes from God, not from a doctor's
scrooping and yelling in pointing orders such to Maroney, I'm
just so distraught to Healing Nelson, ABC six, Fox twenty eight, Columbus.
When I hear the voice of David Austin, who can't
understand what went wrong, and now we know that his
(34:29):
wife was pumped so full of fentnel she died in minutes.
I think the whole hospital needs to answer whether it
brings down the walls around us. The truth must be obtained.
Another thing I don't understand is why they are refusing
(34:50):
to call him a serial killer. We have thirty five
dead people, twenty five have resulted in murdered charges. Why
are they not calling him a serial killer? Well, we
have heard our State of Ohio Attorney General actually call
him a serial killer publicly, but they believe because they
don't have the conviction yet, they're not comfortable doing that.
(35:14):
And Nancy, it's interesting just recently we've gotten a glimpse
into perhaps what they could argue, or at least what
his attorneys are saying right now in a different lawsuit.
So the doctor Husel, he just filed a lawsuit recently
against the hospital and other groups, and they're claiming that
he's being defamed, perhaps the largest defamation case in recent
Ohio history. They say because he was trained at the
(35:35):
Cleveland Clinic and has this background in anesthesiology and critical care.
They say he was actually determining the right dosages for
each of these patients. They're claiming that these patients had
a high tolerance for these drugs and that he was
doing what was right. Well, if it was the right dosage,
why did they all die of overdose? Here? Only that
doesn't make any sense to me, So you think they're
(35:58):
they so far, the prosecutors not called serial killer because
there are no convictions, when obviously he is a serial killer.
And to you, Karen Stark, do you think if it's
the profile of a serial killer without a doubt? Nancy,
I mean the power, it's sadistic. There is really no
reason for why he was doing it that has to
(36:21):
do with anything that's medical. And what a convenient way
to be serial killer because he doesn't have to do
anything that's violent. All he has to do is administer
the drug and get away with it. We also know
that he was freed on one million dollar bond, but
of course Heley and Elsie you only have to put
up a hundred thousand dollars for that with twenty five
(36:43):
counts of murder. I don't understand why he even got bond.
Why did the judge given bond That's what a lot
of our viewers were shocked about and asking. But they
said they were following their procedures, and a lot of
the families, of course very upset and devastated by by
all of this, but they said they were following the
(37:03):
procedures laid out ahead of that. So let me understand
in that jurisdiction, you get bond for murder, you can't
get a no bond for twenty five dead bodies. It
depends on the situation. I think two. With the timing
of a lot of this, we know because they're requesting
medical records and going over so many of these documents,
it's certainly a long time process, and I think perhaps
(37:24):
that may have played into all of this. You know,
to me, it makes it worse Mark Tay because they've
had time to realize the extent of his activity, his murders.
Now he's filed a defamation a lawsuit I guess against
the hospital, Is that right, Hallie Nelson? Recently, yes, he
has filed a lot is it against the hospital, the hospital,
their parent company, former CEO, among others. The hospital is
(37:48):
Mount Carmel Hospital, the CEO, and who's the parent company's
Trinity Health out of Michigan. So do you think Mark
Tay that he doctor huselis file the civil lawsuit as
part of his defense strategy. You know, it's a ridiculous thing.
The hospital has said nothing but the truth about him.
(38:10):
I think it's a tragic failure of legal strategy to
let this man facing these charges swipe back at this
hospital nothing they've said against him. It is true. They've
never said that he's guilty of a crime, which is
libel and slander per se. They are simply stating that
(38:30):
we have confirmed if these are the levels of drugs
that he dosed, and the individuals who he dosed with
those drugs have died, and that's the truth. So it's
a stupid lawsuit. Whatever lawyer filed it, I guess was
just taking Husel's money or was trying to grab some headlines,
maybe to boost his or her practice down the line.
But I can't imagine any lawyer I know, and I
(38:54):
know some good lawyers, I cannot imagine anyone advising miss
Fellow that it's a good idea to file a slander
liable deformation lawsuit against the place that may be able
to actually help you in defending yourself, because remember he
is the guy who prescribed the drugs. Their nurses are
(39:14):
the ones who filled the prescriptions. He had to bypass
a drug dispensing system in order to be able to
get these drugs. There's so many other people to blame
here for what happened, and all he's done is sparked
their ire to come out against him, you know, with
all talents bared. And so if he came to me
(39:35):
and asked me to file this lawsuit, I would tell
him your stupid, your hubrists is causing you to think unclearly.
And just because you got your medical degree and your
board certified and anesthesiology which is which is a legitimate
pain management degree and certification, that doesn't mean you need
to come out swinging at them. You need to be timid,
(39:56):
you need to be calm. You need to be saying,
I exercise what was my best medical judgment, and I
should have had more backups if I was making the
wrong judgment. Hospitals have a policy that says nurses are
in fact required to go up the chain of command
if they question the constructions are given. And the truth
is that a nurse has the same exact duty to
(40:19):
you and that is to act with reasonable care towards
the patient. And if the doctor's doing something that you
knew or should have known is incorrect, to go to
the charge nurse and to go up the chain to
the chief position. But do you think there's any way,
doctor Moroney, he can blame the nurses and get off. Well,
he can say, hey, I gave the order. If she
didn't want to give it, she didn't have to give it.
(40:40):
She could have said something, you know, but the nurse
has a procedure and if she clarifies that is his order.
She has a director of nursing, she has a manager nursing. Somewhere.
Somebody called somebody and said, hey, there's something going on here,
But it didn't happen until all these people died, and
it was outside of the hospital. This kind of investigation
(41:03):
could have happened inside of the hospital because a nurse
with some gravitas would have said, I'm not giving that order.
And at once they say that somebody has to look
in and see the past, and they would have seen
how many people are dying at the hands of a
(41:23):
fentil injection and it's going to be multiple nurses. But
they were working in silos and they were isolated, so
it's a failure of communication in this whole system. He's
at the top and that hubris is the perfect word.
And earlier on their pipe bomb indictment and conviction, Hailey
(41:44):
Nelson told us about remember this, the twice divorced doctor
Husel admitted that after he detonated device on campus, he
tried to frame another person by putting a pipe in
their car. So not only did he detonate a pipe bomb,
(42:04):
he tried to blame somebody else, and that is who
the hospital had working on their patients. We wait as
justice unfolds Nancy Gray's crime story, signing off Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!