January 10, 2023 • 41 mins
Gretchen Fleming, 28, disappears after an evening out with a friend, but video captured her leaving the My Way Lounge & Restaurant in Parkersburg, West Virginia, with an older man.
This person of interest reportedly has provided inconsistent accounts of what happened that evening. Police say the man took Fleming to his home. He says he dropped Fleming off.
The young woman's purse with her cellphone, ID, and money was left behind in the lounge. As the search continues, human remains are found nearly two hours from the last location where Gretchen was seen. Where is Gretchen?
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- David Fleming – Father
- Dale Carson - High Profile Attorney (Jacksonville), Former FBI Agent, Former Police Officer (Miami-Dade County), Author: "Arrest-Proof Yourself
- Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist; Twitter: @carynpsych, Facebook: "Caryn Stark"
- Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University; Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet," and Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan"
- Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert, Founder: Cold Case Investigative Research Institute in Atlanta, GA; Twitter: @ColdCaseTips; Host of the new podcast: "Zone 7"
- Dave Mack - CrimeOnline Investigative reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Harrowing details now coming to
light in the case of a beautiful missing young woman,
Gretchen Fleming, who seemingly leaves a bar with an older
man the night of her disappearance. But she was stumbling
(00:30):
very oddly. Was she slipped a rufie? Did she get GHB?
I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us here at Fox Nation in series M
one eleven. What happened to this gorgeous young Gretchen Fleming
leaving a bar with a guy? Has not been seen
(00:54):
or heard from since. But in the last hours a
bizarre twist in the search for Gretchen again, I Nancy Grace,
thanks for being with us. In the last hours, we
learn that West Virginia officials find suspected human remains just
(01:14):
two hours from where the brunette beauty was last seen alive.
Straight up to Crime online dot COM's Jackie Howard, Jackie,
what can you tell us? West Virginia officials say suspected
human remains were found approximately two hours from the location
in Parkersburg where Gretchen Fleming was last seen with an
(01:36):
unnamed male. The human remains were found in elm Grove,
Ohio County Sheriff Tom Howard says officials were led to
the suspected human remains after his office got a call
from another department regarding a missing person. Those remains were
taken to a local funeral home for a medical examiner
(01:56):
to perform an investigation. Twenty seven year old Gretchen Fleming
last seen in the early morning hours of December four
at a restaurant Bar My Way in Parkersburg. She left
with an unknown man seemingly willingly, But who can leave
willingly if you're under the influence of a date rape drug.
(02:18):
About two hours outside a Parkersburg where Fleming goes missing,
suspected human remains were found. It's a little town called
elm Grove, Ohio County Sheriff Tom Howard, who says officials
were led to the human remains on Thursday after his
(02:40):
office gets called from another department regarding a missing person.
Now that those two cases may not be connected, you
know what, there's only one way to do this. Let's
start at the beginning about when Gretchen goes missing. Take
a listen to our friends at wc h S. The
Parkersburg Police Department is asking for your help been finding
(03:00):
twenty seven year old Gretchen Fleming of Vienna. Detectives say
she was last seeing the night of December third and fourth,
but relatives didn't realize she was gone quickly and did
not report it until this week. Police located her purse
and phone, amping up concern. Detectives have worked around the
clock since then to cultivate information, and the public has
(03:21):
really stepped up in regard to tips, and even if
it wasn't from that night, giving us information they thought
was pertinent, and a combination of that has really expedited
the investigation to the point we were able to obtain
some search warrants. Before I ds to you our panel,
I want to go to a special guest joining us.
It's Gretchen's father, David Fleming. When did you realize Gretchen
(03:47):
was gone? Probably that Sunday, ask her. She came up
missing the following week. She was staying mother's house, and
she had been you'd go out and stay with friends,
and you come back every few days and get her
clothes and get to work. And she was just gone
a little longer than norm and that's when we started
looking for I know her so well that if she
(04:10):
was able to call, she would call me in a
heartbe she would never at any of the Suffernis. The
twenty seven year old described as shy and sweet. She'd
recently been living in Vienna with her grandparents. She couldn't
get wait, wait to get out of Parkersburg, to get
to North Carolina and spread her wings to fly, and
she lived down there for several years and then came
(04:31):
back to Parkersburg. Okay, guys, you were just hearing our
friends at wc h S. Let me go to Cheryl
McCollum joining me, the founder and director of the Coal
Case Research Institute, currently in law enforcement. You can find
her at Coalcase Crimes dot org. Cheryl. That's the way
millennials are and the next generation as well. They don't
(04:51):
live under the same rules that we thought we were
supposed to live under. Like, okay, you graduate from college,
and then you get a job, and then you get
an apartment. As soon as you get a down payment,
you put down a house because that's the best thing
to do financially. Oh no, no, no, no no. In fact,
I just read about a knee member I think he said.
(05:12):
The House of Representative says yeah, I'm gonna head to
DC and sofa couch surf for a few days, you know,
and just see how it unfolds. Absolutely, this is not
unusual to be basically living at grandma's house because of
the location. And then you stay with this friend girl
and that friend girl and this one and that, and
(05:32):
you come back, have dinner, stay a few days, and
then off you go. It's just it's very nomadic. Let
me say, absolutely, it's pretty freeing and kind of adventurous.
This is not unusual. But I think it adds to
the dilemma Cheryl McCollum, because we can't id okay, this
is the day she didn't come home to grandma's. See
(05:54):
what I mean, I can't start my crimeline. Well, here's
what happens, and we know this. Even though this was
a usual type of lifestyle for her, there is a
pattern and she usually has not gone this long and
she certainly is not, you know, avoiding to be in
contact with her family. And what's really important here, Nancy,
and this will go to your timeline. Is that cell phone.
(06:17):
She's not with it and she's not owner. You're absolutely correct,
back to David Fleming, this is Gretchen's dad joining us. David,
I know that your whole family's twisted up so badly
wanting her to come home. Tell me again, when you
first realize Gretchen was nowhere you thought she would be.
(06:41):
That is correct. My mother came over to the house
that Sunday and said, you know, this is abnormal. It's
been longer than normal. And I said, well, let's wait
till monday. You know, the weekend's over. Maybe she'll be
back Monday. And then she hasn't work, and so that's
when I started going out, following the trail and looking
for and I found her person at one of the
(07:01):
establishments that she was at. My heart just sunk when
you said that I found her purse. Go ahead, mister Fleming,
and her purse, I found her debit card and her
cell phone. Then really triggered me that I knew something
was wrong. Debit card and cell phone in purse. You
found it? And where was it? It was at an
establishment called the front Row, where somebody from the last
(07:23):
establishment basically returned it back to where where they begin.
Is that like a restaurant bar? Yeah, mister Fleming. You
said that the grandma, her grandmother where she was living. Now,
hold on, was that also in Parkersburg, West Virginia. Yeah, Okay,
she lives in Parkersburg in Vienna. It's just like they're
(07:44):
basically the same town. Vienna, Si, the little suburb of Parkersburg. Okay,
Vienna is in Wood County, West Virginia's situated right there
on the Ohio River, which is an issue I want
to go back to you on Joe Scott Morgan situated
on the Ohio River and at border Parkersburg. Like mister
Fleming is telling you, it's kind of like all one
and the same. The population, now, this is what's important
(08:06):
to in my mind, not only the Ohio River, but
the population. It's around ten seven hundred and seventy six people,
about eleven thousand people. That is small compared to like
a huge metropolis. It's bigger than when I grew where
I grew up in rural bib County, but it's still
small compared to other places, and that that touches on
(08:27):
the way I would approach this investigation. However, it's the
third largest city by population in the Parkersburg, Vienna Marietta
metropolitan area. That's what I know, and that population count
is going to be very, very important. So you said
on that Sunday, what was the date? The date in
(08:48):
December of that Sunday, mister Fleming, December eleventh, Okay, that's
when the grandma comes over and says, hey, Gretchen hasn't
been home. Now, how many days at that juncture had
she been not at home? Seven? So can you get
me the weekday? I've December four, twenty twenty two, So
(09:10):
the following should have been the previous Sunday. It was
December third, which would have been that Saturday. Gotcha, I've
got December four. Thank you for the correction, because every
day matters. Frankly, December three, Saturday, twenty twenty two. That
was the last time she was at grandma's. Okay, guys,
you were just hearing our friends at wc h S
TV now taking us to our friends at wt A
(09:31):
friends cold. Just days before Christmas, the community united with
one goal in mind, bringing Gretchen Fleming home. I want
everybody to look to your left, to look to your right.
This is what community is. Fleming turns twenty eight. On
Christmas Eve, pastor who spoke at the vigil preyed for
a miracle that she's home for her birthday. God, we're
(09:54):
just thinking about so many ways and opportunities Father that
you have shared with us. Miracles do happen. Thank God,
we are asking for a miracle now. Miracles do happen,
and that's what I'm praying for in this case, mister Fleming,
a miracle to bring your daughter home twenty seven. At
(10:15):
the time she goes missing, she lives with Grandma not
too far away, and Grandma comes home to the parents
and says, Gretchen's been gone. She's been gone out a week.
That's highly, highly unusual. Now, I want you to hear
what a law enforcement has to say. Take listen our
friends at w TAP. Parkersburg Police Chief Matthew Board also
(10:37):
got up to speak. He assured the community that law
enforcement is working hard on the case. There are so
many behind the scenes in at the parkers Police Department
that really just essentially not went home since we found
out Gretchen wasn't home. Board Enngridge is anyone with any
information to reach out if you hear anything, if you
(11:01):
see anything, if you have a recollection, don't hesitate to
reach out to us because what might seem minor to
you all might be what we need to help bring
Gretchen home. The latest in the search for Gretchen is
that West Virginia officials find suspective human remains just two
hours from where Gretchen was last seen. Straight up to
(11:21):
Crime Online's Dave Mac, is there any surveillance video at
the front row or the bar she went to, the
restaurant she went to afterwards? Yes, I don't know if
they have video at the front row that hasnt been
disclosed in what I've seen thus far. You've got it
from my Way. There is video at my Way. We
actually do know who she left my Way bar with guys.
(11:43):
Hold on my Way. My Way is also a restaurant bar.
They have family karaoke, They have live news that you
can playpool. They have this Sunday Brunch that people from
miles around come to the Sunday Brunch with their families.
Now interesting, Dave Mac, When was she observed at my Way? Now,
(12:05):
remember her dad is with us, David Fleming. He goes
and collects her pocketbook. At the first restaurant, she went
to the front row, which had her cell phone and
her debit card into in It wasn't that the first
place she stopped. David. Yes, ma'am, okay, take a listen
(12:26):
to our friends at w tap. Another employee, Jessica mctee,
says that Gretchen's purse with her phone and other materials
was turned into the front row the following morning, and
it was there for a week until her father, David Fleming,
picked up the purse on December eleventh. Both employees say
that it's a difficult thing to see this happen to
(12:48):
someone they knew from high school and seeing at the
front row bar and are worried about the person of
interest she was seen with from the my Way lounge.
When we hear about something like that's happening, it just
strikes you right through the soul because you're like, I
was just with her, or I just talked to her, like,
how could something like this happen this way? So he
(13:09):
goes there. How did you know to go there, mister Fleming,
because it's a popular place in town and younger people,
you know, hang out there, so I thought to check
there first. Okay, Well that was smart. I thought maybe
they called you because they had this pocket book, But
you went there all on your own. Yes, that's a
picture of my daughter and asked if anybody had seen her,
(13:30):
and they said, the matter of fact, you left her.
Somebody returned her first year Karen Start joining me. We're
now New York psychologists joining us out of Manhattan today
to help find Gretchen. You can find her at karen
Start dot com. That's Karen with a See Karen, did
you hear what he just said? I mean, we're racing
through the facts so we can get it out there
to help find her. But let me just stop for
(13:52):
a minute. Here's dad and I'm thinking to my dad,
and you know how I feel about my father out
in the cold, going from place to place, bar to restaurant,
to bar to restaurant, the gas station to this to
that with a picture. This is my girl. Have you
(14:13):
seen her? Her name is Gretchen. Can you imagine that,
Karen Star, It's so vivid, Nancy, I have such an
image and I'm so sorry of him going around and
saying have you seen my daughter? And how strange? Who
do you know what? Female would leave the bar and
(14:35):
allowed let their cell phone be in the bar, there,
purse be in the bar. Nobody would leave that behind.
And it makes you wonder what exactly was going on.
It's not a normal situation. I don't even care if
someone had a lot to drink. You sort of have
it attached to you. Let me ask everybody in the studio, guys,
(14:56):
are you within reach of your cell phone right now? Yes?
I am and Ellie, we all have our cell phones.
You know, this cell phone is partly the answer to
the question that you're searching. Is this Dell Carson? It is,
guys with me? Is Dell Carson. He's a high profile
Laurie Rode Jackson. But the real reason we have him on,
(15:17):
not only for his legal acumen, is his former FBI
agent for many years and a former officer in Miami
Day which is a very high crime area. Jump in
Dell Carson. You know, it's a mountainous territory west. Cell
phones have aluminated league generators like that. Oh good point.
Looking at pains and watching her phone go from one
(15:40):
place to another, see if there's another tandem that goes
from that same place to another, and then you can
tell specifically when she left by looking at the duration
of the phone. This his stays charge to see backwards
how long it's been alive and whether or not the father.
When he picked up the phone was still active. So
(16:01):
and you know, other questions like who brought the pocketbook back?
Exactly right? Was she in her car? I mean, where's
her car? Those are important issues, but candidly, there'll be
transmissions that are limited in range, and all they've got
to do is correlate those cell phone pains to isolate
(16:21):
out who the hell was involved with her. Can I
jump in, Nancy, Yeah, but I want to tell you something, Cheryl. Yes, hold,
you thought, mister Fleming, this is Gretchen's dad. Was she
traveling in her car that night? Gretchen doesn't have a car.
She doesn't ever wanted her driver's license. She's want of
those people that just doesn't want to drive. She was
more of a you know, got a ride by, you
(16:43):
know Fred Well, that also is not unusual for someone
her age twenty seven, but it reflects an agreeability that
makes her subject to being manipulated by people. You know,
I mean, in other words, I don't know about that,
but I do know she'd have to get a ride
to wherever she was going. So we don't have a
car to help us. Let me Martin, that off, Cheryl
McCollum joining me. Founder director of the Cold Case Research Institute.
(17:08):
She's also active forensic expert. You can find her and
a brand new and it's a hit podcast, Zone seven. Okay,
Cheryl jump in. So she's seen at this bar with
an older man and there's inconsistent statements that he's already
made to law enforcement. Well wait a minute, wait a minute,
wait wait wait, when you say older, you know she's
(17:31):
just twenty seven, so that can mean arrange. That could
be anywhere from twenty eight to seventy five. Hold on,
I'm gonna follow up, mister Fleming, David Fleming. We're talking
about surveillance video not at the front row where you
(17:51):
retrieved her pocketbook, but from my Way restaurant and lounge
sent up to crime online dot Com. A Howard Jackie,
what mister Fleming? And No, I have not, but I'm
aware of it. Have you tried to see it? I
haven't taken detail of what was all on the video?
(18:13):
What were you told is on the video because what
we know about may not may not be as let
me say fully fleshed out, is what you know about?
What were you told is on the video? I was
told that she was at the my Way and appeared
to be pretty intoxicated and uh, talking to an older male. Okay,
(18:36):
what about this friend? And I'm not saying he's a
suspect because I don't believe that he is a suspect.
The I call him a friend boy because he's not
a boyfriend. He's a friend. That is a guy. Your daughter,
Gretchen goes to the first place, um the front row
with the friend, the longtime friend, who is a male.
(18:59):
Is he with her at my way? She rode with
him to my way and that's where they got separated. Okay, gotcha.
So you were told what about the video, mister Fleming
that basically she appeared to be intoxicated and was talking
to an order man and ended up believing with him.
When you say older, what do you mean by older?
(19:22):
You know, mid fifties? What in the hay as a
man as mid fifties doing with a twenty seven year
old girl. Not judging, I'm just trying to figure out
what this guy is doing there, trying to pick up
young girls. And Nancy, if I could just jump in, please,
I wanted to make this joint. Here's one of the
statements he made to law enforcement. He told them at
(19:45):
one point that night early morning, she was in his car,
So we not only know he was with her, she
was in his vehicle at some point, and nobody has
seen her since. I think it's critical I can add
to that. Now. Okay, we've got the video of Gregging
leaving with this person, and we don't have it all
(20:08):
the way to his car. Okay, the video only goes
a certain part. He was parked in an area that
wasn't picked up by the video. However, we have his
own admission that she got into the car with him.
He then claims, and this is where the quag comes in,
claims that he just dropped her off at some intersection. Okay,
that they never went all the way to his house.
(20:29):
That's why police are looking for anybody in that area,
because he lives about two miles from my way. They're
trying to find anybody in that area that has surveillance videos.
What about the intersection, Dave mac is there a stop
a red light? Camp? Well, I don't know. I know
that the police obviously did not believe him in what
he said, because it makes no sense you're gonna drop
(20:51):
a girl off that you picked up at a bar
at an intersection in the middle of the night. That
makes no sense whatsoever. Okay, now, wait to you and I,
it doesn't make sense. It may not make sense. But
what if she said, Hey, I want out of here,
I want an uber let me off right here? I mean,
we don't know what happened? A Fox Nation exclusive an
(21:15):
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Easier than you think? Join us for a deep dive
into Britney Spears's conservatorship Trapped streaming now on Fox Nation
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace And Now another bizarre twist.
(21:40):
What's the likelihood that human remains are found just two
hours away from where a woman goes missing? Social media
was rife with speculation the remains found in a wooded
area of Elm Grove were, in fact the missing woman
Gretchen Fleming. Another bizarre twist. We are now being told
(22:03):
there is quote no evidence at this time connecting human
remains found in West Virginia to the missing person case
of Gretchen Fleming. Chief Matthew Board of Parkersburg PD tells
us now the two cases are not linked. So who
is the person whose remains were found and where is Gretchen?
(22:26):
Do you guys take a listen to our cut twelve.
This is Semantha Cavalia w TAP new tonight. The parkersbur
Police Department has provided WTP with more details on Gretchen
Fleming's disappearance. If you have video surveillance, Parkersber Police Chief
Matthew Board encourages you to look for this car in
your footage. He says to check footage from late night
December third through December fifth. If you see the car
(22:48):
in your footage, contact Detective Zimmer a minute three or
four four two four ten seventy two. During after hours
you can call three or four four two four eighty
four forty four. What kind of car are they looking
forward to? David Fleming? This is Gretchen's dad, Gretchen Fleming's dad.
What kind of car are they looking for? Mister Fleming.
(23:10):
It's a black hatch back. I'm looking for the model
here caught, Thank you, that's it. What's a black Nissan
Rogue Sports, Nissan Rogue Sport now, question to the panel.
I assume that a black Nisan Rogue Sport. That's what
the described older man was driving that night. Correct, Yeah, Okay.
(23:36):
Joe Scot Morgan joining me now, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. He's got
a hit podcast, Body Bags, with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott.
They're asking the public if you have any footage of
this black hatchback Nissan Rogue Sport, call this number. We're
(24:00):
trying to piece the puzzle together. Okay, just gotta jump in. Yeah,
you begin to think about this this, you know they
have a Parkersburg has an advantage in this case where
where all of this went down went down. Now, the
periphery of Parkersburg is not a densely populated area. However,
this is a business dining district. It's down toward the river.
(24:23):
A lot of people go there and hang out. So
you've got a lot of businesses that are around there.
People are walking about. I don't know about the cams
on the camp on the stoplights and all of this
sort of thing, but businesses alone will have some kind
of CCTV footage. That's going to be important here when
you're talking about something like a montage, because she her
(24:46):
movements can be tracked, and this is something else I
think it's critical in this case. You know, Mack had
mentioned something off the air just a little while ago
about about perhaps some type of agent like a drug
being placed into her dream. If there is video footage
at one of these bars, you can actually appreciate this, Nancy,
(25:08):
the uptake of a drug like that into a system. Okay,
are you talking about GHB gama hydroxyb rate GHB or
rehibital either one there they kind of accomplish the same thing.
They're both classified as date rate drugs. But you know
the thing about it is both of these drugs and
people will find this interesting that have ever had surgery.
(25:30):
They're an aid to anaesthesia. It's like it's like a
precursor to anesthesia. They put you in this kind of
dream like state. You can't really remember anything, that sort
of thing. And to Dale's point earlier, he talked about compliance,
and that's going to be key here. But if they
have if they have footage of her having ingested a drink,
you know they're they're throwing out this thing about her
(25:52):
being inebriated. Well, you just don't get inebriated suddenly. If
there's an agent in your dream, like a date great
drug it's bam. I mean, you see it. The uptake
is like really quickly, so you could have her with
a normal gait walking about and then all of a
sudden she's stumbling. She has to have somebody put their
hands on her to aid her as she's walking along.
(26:15):
And that's going to be a big tell with this,
you know when all of this comes out. Now, back
to this car, I'm you know they say that they
question this guy. If they question this guy, I hope
that they have an eye on this car, that they
can get their hands on it as soon as possible
so that they can check this car out and track
its movements and also anything, I mean anything that might
(26:39):
be a tie back to this precious girl. I want
to add something off what you're saying, Joe Scott Morgan,
And again, mister fleming with me is Gretchen's dad. I'm
getting information about these stickers that are on the back
of the Nissan Rogue Sport. They are Darth Vader stickers
on the back pass singer windows, one on either side,
(27:02):
and apparently there is a Outer Banks sticker on the
rear window as well. Okay, Joe Scott Morgan, two words,
Michelle Parker. Do you remember the People's Court mom who
goes missing after she goes on People's Court and she
and her fiance, the father of her twin children, are
fighting mat an engagement ring. The day that it airs,
(27:27):
she goes missing, and then her vehicle is found parked
in a nearby apartment complex across the street from a mall.
As I recall a big mall and the stickers it
was for, I think a glow tan. She did, you know,
would go to various homes and part of her business
was that she would do these glow tans. There was
(27:49):
a huge sticker on her car which made it highly recognizable.
They had been very meticulously scraped off the vehicle, so
somebody knew that that would give away the location of
her car, and they did not want her car found.
I think it was a cheap or hummer maybe, so
(28:09):
jump in, Joe Scott Morgan. When you have these stickers
on a car like this, it will give you an
insight into the lives of people. Who they are, what
they do, what their interests are, where they travel too.
You know, in this case, you know we've got well,
obviously Darth Vader maybe into Star Wars and also traveling
you know outer Banks. Is this an in place that
(28:32):
this individual goes to regularly to go get away from
it all? Is that their place? Is that their thing?
Do they have associates that'd like to go there? So
it gives you an insight into their life and they're
traveling to these locations in this particular in this particular vehicle,
it goes to their style of life and how they live.
Nancy can jump. Also, it's highly identifiable vehicle with stickers
(28:54):
on it jump in, jump in share. I'm gonna call
them Joe Scott's ripe. But there's a flip side of
that coin and that is it goes to his crimes.
Meaning this is a four door car. The Darth Vader
stickers are on the bag like where children sit. Then
that sticker with the outer Banks looks like those stickers
that soccer moms put on where they go for the
girls weekends. This car was non threatening. This isn't like
(29:18):
he was in a windowless van or a big beat
up peacup truck. This does not look like a kidnappers car.
And that's on purpose, guys. This all occurs just before Christmas,
but according to police, that is not slowing down the
search for this gorgeous young girl. Gretchen take a listen
(29:38):
hour cut ten or friends at WTAP sins Scratching was
reported missing on December twelfth. Chief Board says the department
has been working around the clock. The investigation has not
slowed down. There are people dedicated specifically to this case.
And as I said, the holidays didn't slow that down.
Christmas even Christmas Day still working, so it is not
(29:59):
slowed down with time at all of anything. At its
gaining speed. So far, the department has issued and executed
several search warrants. WTAP asked if the person of interest
was a part of those search warrants. Chief Board cannot
say out this time since it is an active investigation.
I know it seems at times that we may not
be forthcoming with information, but there's a reason for that
(30:21):
and we release what we can. We've just seen in
the Idaho case where police were actively trailing suspect. I'm
not releasing the details because the suspect would have been
known and altered his behavior. We saw the same thing
in the Delphi double murder of Abbey and Libby. The
(30:43):
local police held their cards close to the vest because
if it had gotten out that there was a bullet
they thought ejected from the gun of the purp lying
between the two girls' bodies, the moment that would have
come out, you know, it would have gotten rid of
that gun in a minute, in a heartbeat. So all
(31:05):
the evidence is not as not released to the public
for a reason. Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. If you
(31:31):
know or think you know anything about the disappearance of
Gretchen Fleming, please call the tip line which is three
zero four four two four one zero seven two repeat
three zero four four two four one zero seven two.
There is a very strong chance we can help bring
(31:55):
Gretchen home alive. David Fleming is joining me. This is
Gretchen's dad. And there have been reports that Gretchen was
highly intoxicated at the time she was seen exiting the
bar the my Way Lounge karaoke lounge. If she had
(32:17):
been given HBO Ruthie, that's exactly how she would appear,
drunk out of it, much the way I believe Natalie
Holloway appeared when she left Carlos and Charlie's what can
you tell me about Gretchen. I really don't have any
information that you know, I'm just going on here say
(32:37):
of what was reported, would she have gone out with
her girlfriends and had a drinking party? Would she have
done that? Or is it more likely that she was
slipped something. You know, she probably went out and had
some drinks, you know, not to say that it could
have been both. You know, for instance, if somebody saw
me appear intoxicated, they would my close friends would That's
(32:58):
entirely wrong because I'm a tito Nancy. But I represented
a client through a very attractive woman who was at
a bar and she got raped and she had GHB
put in her drink. Uh. She was arrested for fighting
with police when she was dropped off at a fire station,
(33:21):
and she became hugely intoxicated, just as Joe Joe mentioned,
and she ultimately got charged. Interestingly, we had her blood
because they took her blood, and we could not even
find any substance like that. It is my belief that
you can't. Some of those chemicals you're not able to
(33:44):
find even with a blood draw, and Joe, it's metabolized
very very quickly. The key is, if you have a
suspect in a case like this, if you dig through
their home, you dig through their through their car, they
shouldn't be in poses of this. If they are in
possession of this, again, it runs kind of parallel to
(34:04):
the narrative. You want to know if they have it,
do they have the ability to use it? And also
if this individual has ever done anything like this before,
that's going to be a big tale as well. I
want to talk about the effects of Ruthie or GHB
SCHERL McCollum. Wouldn't she have acted or appear to be drunk,
There's no question about it. And here's what would be
also part of them. Most likely he's gonna like escort
(34:28):
her out. He's going to be like holding her elbow
or maybe have his arm around her leading her away.
And that's why I think this video is going to
be so critical. This guy has been identified by police.
We know who the POI is. Take a listen to
our cut thirteen WTAP. Chief Ford says they believe the
person of interest took Fleming to their residence. The person
(34:50):
of interest originally told officials that they gave Fleming a
ride and she departed at an unknown location. However, chief
Ford says the story was inconsistent and to know surveillance
footage led them to believe the person of interest took
her to their residence. Officials have executed search warrants on
the person of interest residence, car, electronic devices, and a
(35:10):
storage building. Chief Ford says law enforcement spoke with a
person of interest in the beginning of the investigation, but
they are no longer giving police information. The Parkersburg Police
Department returned to one of the locations that it first
searched back on December fifteenth. Parkersburg Police Chief Matt Board
confirmed that the home on the thirteen hundred block of
(35:32):
Division Street is where the person of interest in the
Gretchen Fleming case lives. Police are not releasing that person's
name at this time. I'm learning a lot from what
I just heard. Number One, everything we were talking about
regarding gathering surveillance at that intersection where the POI says
he dropped dra off. Forget that that's null and void,
(35:56):
because now we know police say they have a dish information.
I believe it to be CCTV or SIR surveillance video
some sort that tells them he took her to his place.
Now right there, Karen Stark, if he took her to
(36:16):
his place and then she left? Why not just say
that I brought her home. She wanted to leave, so
I got her an uber. Why not say that if
that's what happened. Why lie? If in fact he did lie, Well, Nancy,
let's let's be clear about this. Those just the fact
that he's no longer cooperating, That speaks volumes about him
(36:38):
holding information and being concerned. And he would not tell
the truth if he brought her back, because why would
he would? That would make him be even more suspect.
So this is a nefarious character, There's no doubt in
my mind. Just just hearing that he's refusing to cooperate
(36:59):
at this point, and it makes you wonder what would
be the next steps that they would be taking. Well,
another thing is I believe Karen Start, You're exactly correct,
they're looking at the next step. Did anyone see that
particular Nissan rogue after it went to his David Flemy?
(37:22):
This is gretched his dad as in an apartment or
a home. It was a real house, a rental home.
I wonder if they're wanting surveillance or witnesses that saw
the car after the car left the home. As a
matter of fact, take a listen to our cut fifteen
Gina Marini, and they want anyone who lives in that
area to review their secure home security systems to see
(37:45):
if this car is in any of the footage from
early morning hours of December fourth through noon on the fit.
Let's go over what we can see about the car
that might help it stand out to you. Now, it's
a black Nissan Rogue Sport. We don't know the year,
but it seems to be fairly newar model. From this
photo of the back there's a Pittsburgh Penguins vanity plate cover. Now,
(38:06):
one distinct thing that might show up on your home footage.
Both sides of the car have these Darth Vader decals
on the backseat windows, as you can see in the photos.
It's above the gas stoor and on the other side
as well. And one more close up of the car,
we can see an outer Bank sticker on the left
side of the rear windshield. Nancy, I gotta jump in,
please please do. I'm gonna go back to that video
(38:29):
for a second. Whether or not she had her purse
when she left is key. Second. If she had her purse,
then her phone is going to paying wherever he took
her to his residence or elsewhere. The other thing is
who brought that purse back that phone would still be
paying in. Well, it's my understanding she left the purse
at the bar, the original bar perhaps, and the friend
(38:52):
boy actually took it back when he couldn't find her
to the bar where they originally met David Fleming. Do
we know who handed the purse over to the establishment? Yeah?
Who wasn't? And I don't want to say name. I
don't need a name. I just need to know. Was
it somebody there at the bar that night? Was it
(39:13):
a waiter or a waitress? Was it the friend guy?
It was? It was the friend guy that returned the
first back to the guarden. Aha. Okay, that's telling me
a lot. What do you make of that, Charyl McCollum Again,
what I would focus on now is his cell phone
pings and if they have flock cameras picking up his
car all over town, where did he go after going
(39:34):
to his home. That's a really good point. If he
didn't go to the home, and we'll hope we know
that he did go to the home. The cops have
already told us that they believe he took her to
the home and what Charyla was saying is where did
he go? Immediately after? David Fleming is with me. This
is Gretchen's dad. David. Has Gretchen ever stayed out of
(39:57):
touch for this long? No, there is no doubt in
my mind she has met with foul play. At this
very moment, she could be being held against her will.
Straight out to Crime Online's Dave Mack, what can you
tell us? The search for Gretchen Fleming continues and the
Parkersburg Police want everyone to know. The reward money for
information regarding the disappearance of the twenty eight year old
(40:18):
has been up to sixty five thousand dollars. Police report
a reward of thirty two five hundred has been offered
to anyone with substantial information concerning Fleming's physical location. A
separate reward for the same amount has been offered for
information leading to the arrest and conviction of anyone involved
in Fleming's disappearance or physically harming the woman. Parkersburg Police
(40:40):
Chief Matthew Board said Fleming's family attributes the substantial increases
in reward money to business owners who quote care about
Gretchen and the Parkersburg area and wanted to help, but
wish to remain anonymous. Une As we go to air now,
we understand that the human remains found in a wooded
area on Cemetery Lifeane of all places, have been identified
(41:03):
as that of missing man Wesley Maddox, missing since October,
forty one year old Maddox went missing when he was
reportedly walking to the drug store with his dog but
never returned home. His mom, Jeans, says she is confident
the body discovered on Cemetery Lane is that of her
(41:24):
son and she is planning a memorial for him. We
wait as the evidence unfalse. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing
off Goodbye Friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Harrowing details now coming to
light in the case of a beautiful missing young woman,
Gretchen Fleming, who seemingly leaves a bar with an older
man the night of her disappearance. But she was stumbling
(00:30):
very oddly. Was she slipped a rufie? Did she get GHB?
I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us here at Fox Nation in series M
one eleven. What happened to this gorgeous young Gretchen Fleming
leaving a bar with a guy? Has not been seen
(00:54):
or heard from since. But in the last hours a
bizarre twist in the search for Gretchen again, I Nancy Grace,
thanks for being with us. In the last hours, we
learn that West Virginia officials find suspected human remains just
(01:14):
two hours from where the brunette beauty was last seen alive.
Straight up to Crime online dot COM's Jackie Howard, Jackie,
what can you tell us? West Virginia officials say suspected
human remains were found approximately two hours from the location
in Parkersburg where Gretchen Fleming was last seen with an
(01:36):
unnamed male. The human remains were found in elm Grove,
Ohio County Sheriff Tom Howard says officials were led to
the suspected human remains after his office got a call
from another department regarding a missing person. Those remains were
taken to a local funeral home for a medical examiner
(01:56):
to perform an investigation. Twenty seven year old Gretchen Fleming
last seen in the early morning hours of December four
at a restaurant Bar My Way in Parkersburg. She left
with an unknown man seemingly willingly, But who can leave
willingly if you're under the influence of a date rape drug.
(02:18):
About two hours outside a Parkersburg where Fleming goes missing,
suspected human remains were found. It's a little town called
elm Grove, Ohio County Sheriff Tom Howard, who says officials
were led to the human remains on Thursday after his
(02:40):
office gets called from another department regarding a missing person.
Now that those two cases may not be connected, you
know what, there's only one way to do this. Let's
start at the beginning about when Gretchen goes missing. Take
a listen to our friends at wc h S. The
Parkersburg Police Department is asking for your help been finding
(03:00):
twenty seven year old Gretchen Fleming of Vienna. Detectives say
she was last seeing the night of December third and fourth,
but relatives didn't realize she was gone quickly and did
not report it until this week. Police located her purse
and phone, amping up concern. Detectives have worked around the
clock since then to cultivate information, and the public has
(03:21):
really stepped up in regard to tips, and even if
it wasn't from that night, giving us information they thought
was pertinent, and a combination of that has really expedited
the investigation to the point we were able to obtain
some search warrants. Before I ds to you our panel,
I want to go to a special guest joining us.
It's Gretchen's father, David Fleming. When did you realize Gretchen
(03:47):
was gone? Probably that Sunday, ask her. She came up
missing the following week. She was staying mother's house, and
she had been you'd go out and stay with friends,
and you come back every few days and get her
clothes and get to work. And she was just gone
a little longer than norm and that's when we started
looking for I know her so well that if she
(04:10):
was able to call, she would call me in a
heartbe she would never at any of the Suffernis. The
twenty seven year old described as shy and sweet. She'd
recently been living in Vienna with her grandparents. She couldn't
get wait, wait to get out of Parkersburg, to get
to North Carolina and spread her wings to fly, and
she lived down there for several years and then came
(04:31):
back to Parkersburg. Okay, guys, you were just hearing our
friends at wc h S. Let me go to Cheryl
McCollum joining me, the founder and director of the Coal
Case Research Institute, currently in law enforcement. You can find
her at Coalcase Crimes dot org. Cheryl. That's the way
millennials are and the next generation as well. They don't
(04:51):
live under the same rules that we thought we were
supposed to live under. Like, okay, you graduate from college,
and then you get a job, and then you get
an apartment. As soon as you get a down payment,
you put down a house because that's the best thing
to do financially. Oh no, no, no, no no. In fact,
I just read about a knee member I think he said.
(05:12):
The House of Representative says yeah, I'm gonna head to
DC and sofa couch surf for a few days, you know,
and just see how it unfolds. Absolutely, this is not
unusual to be basically living at grandma's house because of
the location. And then you stay with this friend girl
and that friend girl and this one and that, and
(05:32):
you come back, have dinner, stay a few days, and
then off you go. It's just it's very nomadic. Let
me say, absolutely, it's pretty freeing and kind of adventurous.
This is not unusual. But I think it adds to
the dilemma Cheryl McCollum, because we can't id okay, this
is the day she didn't come home to grandma's. See
(05:54):
what I mean, I can't start my crimeline. Well, here's
what happens, and we know this. Even though this was
a usual type of lifestyle for her, there is a
pattern and she usually has not gone this long and
she certainly is not, you know, avoiding to be in
contact with her family. And what's really important here, Nancy,
and this will go to your timeline. Is that cell phone.
(06:17):
She's not with it and she's not owner. You're absolutely correct,
back to David Fleming, this is Gretchen's dad joining us. David,
I know that your whole family's twisted up so badly
wanting her to come home. Tell me again, when you
first realize Gretchen was nowhere you thought she would be.
(06:41):
That is correct. My mother came over to the house
that Sunday and said, you know, this is abnormal. It's
been longer than normal. And I said, well, let's wait
till monday. You know, the weekend's over. Maybe she'll be
back Monday. And then she hasn't work, and so that's
when I started going out, following the trail and looking
for and I found her person at one of the
(07:01):
establishments that she was at. My heart just sunk when
you said that I found her purse. Go ahead, mister Fleming,
and her purse, I found her debit card and her
cell phone. Then really triggered me that I knew something
was wrong. Debit card and cell phone in purse. You
found it? And where was it? It was at an
establishment called the front Row, where somebody from the last
(07:23):
establishment basically returned it back to where where they begin.
Is that like a restaurant bar? Yeah, mister Fleming. You
said that the grandma, her grandmother where she was living. Now,
hold on, was that also in Parkersburg, West Virginia. Yeah, Okay,
she lives in Parkersburg in Vienna. It's just like they're
(07:44):
basically the same town. Vienna, Si, the little suburb of Parkersburg. Okay,
Vienna is in Wood County, West Virginia's situated right there
on the Ohio River, which is an issue I want
to go back to you on Joe Scott Morgan situated
on the Ohio River and at border Parkersburg. Like mister
Fleming is telling you, it's kind of like all one
and the same. The population, now, this is what's important
(08:06):
to in my mind, not only the Ohio River, but
the population. It's around ten seven hundred and seventy six people,
about eleven thousand people. That is small compared to like
a huge metropolis. It's bigger than when I grew where
I grew up in rural bib County, but it's still
small compared to other places, and that that touches on
(08:27):
the way I would approach this investigation. However, it's the
third largest city by population in the Parkersburg, Vienna Marietta
metropolitan area. That's what I know, and that population count
is going to be very, very important. So you said
on that Sunday, what was the date? The date in
(08:48):
December of that Sunday, mister Fleming, December eleventh, Okay, that's
when the grandma comes over and says, hey, Gretchen hasn't
been home. Now, how many days at that juncture had
she been not at home? Seven? So can you get
me the weekday? I've December four, twenty twenty two, So
(09:10):
the following should have been the previous Sunday. It was
December third, which would have been that Saturday. Gotcha, I've
got December four. Thank you for the correction, because every
day matters. Frankly, December three, Saturday, twenty twenty two. That
was the last time she was at grandma's. Okay, guys,
you were just hearing our friends at wc h S
TV now taking us to our friends at wt A
(09:31):
friends cold. Just days before Christmas, the community united with
one goal in mind, bringing Gretchen Fleming home. I want
everybody to look to your left, to look to your right.
This is what community is. Fleming turns twenty eight. On
Christmas Eve, pastor who spoke at the vigil preyed for
a miracle that she's home for her birthday. God, we're
(09:54):
just thinking about so many ways and opportunities Father that
you have shared with us. Miracles do happen. Thank God,
we are asking for a miracle now. Miracles do happen,
and that's what I'm praying for in this case, mister Fleming,
a miracle to bring your daughter home twenty seven. At
(10:15):
the time she goes missing, she lives with Grandma not
too far away, and Grandma comes home to the parents
and says, Gretchen's been gone. She's been gone out a week.
That's highly, highly unusual. Now, I want you to hear
what a law enforcement has to say. Take listen our
friends at w TAP. Parkersburg Police Chief Matthew Board also
(10:37):
got up to speak. He assured the community that law
enforcement is working hard on the case. There are so
many behind the scenes in at the parkers Police Department
that really just essentially not went home since we found
out Gretchen wasn't home. Board Enngridge is anyone with any
information to reach out if you hear anything, if you
(11:01):
see anything, if you have a recollection, don't hesitate to
reach out to us because what might seem minor to
you all might be what we need to help bring
Gretchen home. The latest in the search for Gretchen is
that West Virginia officials find suspective human remains just two
hours from where Gretchen was last seen. Straight up to
(11:21):
Crime Online's Dave Mac, is there any surveillance video at
the front row or the bar she went to, the
restaurant she went to afterwards? Yes, I don't know if
they have video at the front row that hasnt been
disclosed in what I've seen thus far. You've got it
from my Way. There is video at my Way. We
actually do know who she left my Way bar with guys.
(11:43):
Hold on my Way. My Way is also a restaurant bar.
They have family karaoke, They have live news that you
can playpool. They have this Sunday Brunch that people from
miles around come to the Sunday Brunch with their families.
Now interesting, Dave Mac, When was she observed at my Way? Now,
(12:05):
remember her dad is with us, David Fleming. He goes
and collects her pocketbook. At the first restaurant, she went
to the front row, which had her cell phone and
her debit card into in It wasn't that the first
place she stopped. David. Yes, ma'am, okay, take a listen
(12:26):
to our friends at w tap. Another employee, Jessica mctee,
says that Gretchen's purse with her phone and other materials
was turned into the front row the following morning, and
it was there for a week until her father, David Fleming,
picked up the purse on December eleventh. Both employees say
that it's a difficult thing to see this happen to
(12:48):
someone they knew from high school and seeing at the
front row bar and are worried about the person of
interest she was seen with from the my Way lounge.
When we hear about something like that's happening, it just
strikes you right through the soul because you're like, I
was just with her, or I just talked to her, like,
how could something like this happen this way? So he
(13:09):
goes there. How did you know to go there, mister Fleming,
because it's a popular place in town and younger people,
you know, hang out there, so I thought to check
there first. Okay, Well that was smart. I thought maybe
they called you because they had this pocket book, But
you went there all on your own. Yes, that's a
picture of my daughter and asked if anybody had seen her,
(13:30):
and they said, the matter of fact, you left her.
Somebody returned her first year Karen Start joining me. We're
now New York psychologists joining us out of Manhattan today
to help find Gretchen. You can find her at karen
Start dot com. That's Karen with a See Karen, did
you hear what he just said? I mean, we're racing
through the facts so we can get it out there
to help find her. But let me just stop for
(13:52):
a minute. Here's dad and I'm thinking to my dad,
and you know how I feel about my father out
in the cold, going from place to place, bar to restaurant,
to bar to restaurant, the gas station to this to
that with a picture. This is my girl. Have you
(14:13):
seen her? Her name is Gretchen. Can you imagine that,
Karen Star, It's so vivid, Nancy, I have such an
image and I'm so sorry of him going around and
saying have you seen my daughter? And how strange? Who
do you know what? Female would leave the bar and
(14:35):
allowed let their cell phone be in the bar, there,
purse be in the bar. Nobody would leave that behind.
And it makes you wonder what exactly was going on.
It's not a normal situation. I don't even care if
someone had a lot to drink. You sort of have
it attached to you. Let me ask everybody in the studio, guys,
(14:56):
are you within reach of your cell phone right now? Yes?
I am and Ellie, we all have our cell phones.
You know, this cell phone is partly the answer to
the question that you're searching. Is this Dell Carson? It is,
guys with me? Is Dell Carson. He's a high profile
Laurie Rode Jackson. But the real reason we have him on,
(15:17):
not only for his legal acumen, is his former FBI
agent for many years and a former officer in Miami
Day which is a very high crime area. Jump in
Dell Carson. You know, it's a mountainous territory west. Cell
phones have aluminated league generators like that. Oh good point.
Looking at pains and watching her phone go from one
(15:40):
place to another, see if there's another tandem that goes
from that same place to another, and then you can
tell specifically when she left by looking at the duration
of the phone. This his stays charge to see backwards
how long it's been alive and whether or not the father.
When he picked up the phone was still active. So
(16:01):
and you know, other questions like who brought the pocketbook back?
Exactly right? Was she in her car? I mean, where's
her car? Those are important issues, but candidly, there'll be
transmissions that are limited in range, and all they've got
to do is correlate those cell phone pains to isolate
(16:21):
out who the hell was involved with her. Can I
jump in, Nancy, Yeah, but I want to tell you something, Cheryl. Yes, hold,
you thought, mister Fleming, this is Gretchen's dad. Was she
traveling in her car that night? Gretchen doesn't have a car.
She doesn't ever wanted her driver's license. She's want of
those people that just doesn't want to drive. She was
more of a you know, got a ride by, you
(16:43):
know Fred Well, that also is not unusual for someone
her age twenty seven, but it reflects an agreeability that
makes her subject to being manipulated by people. You know,
I mean, in other words, I don't know about that,
but I do know she'd have to get a ride
to wherever she was going. So we don't have a
car to help us. Let me Martin, that off, Cheryl
McCollum joining me. Founder director of the Cold Case Research Institute.
(17:08):
She's also active forensic expert. You can find her and
a brand new and it's a hit podcast, Zone seven. Okay,
Cheryl jump in. So she's seen at this bar with
an older man and there's inconsistent statements that he's already
made to law enforcement. Well wait a minute, wait a minute,
wait wait wait, when you say older, you know she's
(17:31):
just twenty seven, so that can mean arrange. That could
be anywhere from twenty eight to seventy five. Hold on,
I'm gonna follow up, mister Fleming, David Fleming. We're talking
about surveillance video not at the front row where you
(17:51):
retrieved her pocketbook, but from my Way restaurant and lounge
sent up to crime online dot Com. A Howard Jackie,
what mister Fleming? And No, I have not, but I'm
aware of it. Have you tried to see it? I
haven't taken detail of what was all on the video?
(18:13):
What were you told is on the video because what
we know about may not may not be as let
me say fully fleshed out, is what you know about?
What were you told is on the video? I was
told that she was at the my Way and appeared
to be pretty intoxicated and uh, talking to an older male. Okay,
(18:36):
what about this friend? And I'm not saying he's a
suspect because I don't believe that he is a suspect.
The I call him a friend boy because he's not
a boyfriend. He's a friend. That is a guy. Your daughter,
Gretchen goes to the first place, um the front row
with the friend, the longtime friend, who is a male.
(18:59):
Is he with her at my way? She rode with
him to my way and that's where they got separated. Okay, gotcha.
So you were told what about the video, mister Fleming
that basically she appeared to be intoxicated and was talking
to an order man and ended up believing with him.
When you say older, what do you mean by older?
(19:22):
You know, mid fifties? What in the hay as a
man as mid fifties doing with a twenty seven year
old girl. Not judging, I'm just trying to figure out
what this guy is doing there, trying to pick up
young girls. And Nancy, if I could just jump in, please,
I wanted to make this joint. Here's one of the
statements he made to law enforcement. He told them at
(19:45):
one point that night early morning, she was in his car,
So we not only know he was with her, she
was in his vehicle at some point, and nobody has
seen her since. I think it's critical I can add
to that. Now. Okay, we've got the video of Gregging
leaving with this person, and we don't have it all
(20:08):
the way to his car. Okay, the video only goes
a certain part. He was parked in an area that
wasn't picked up by the video. However, we have his
own admission that she got into the car with him.
He then claims, and this is where the quag comes in,
claims that he just dropped her off at some intersection. Okay,
that they never went all the way to his house.
(20:29):
That's why police are looking for anybody in that area,
because he lives about two miles from my way. They're
trying to find anybody in that area that has surveillance videos.
What about the intersection, Dave mac is there a stop
a red light? Camp? Well, I don't know. I know
that the police obviously did not believe him in what
he said, because it makes no sense you're gonna drop
(20:51):
a girl off that you picked up at a bar
at an intersection in the middle of the night. That
makes no sense whatsoever. Okay, now, wait to you and I,
it doesn't make sense. It may not make sense. But
what if she said, Hey, I want out of here,
I want an uber let me off right here? I mean,
we don't know what happened? A Fox Nation exclusive an
(21:15):
international pop star stripped of human rights? How does that happen?
Easier than you think? Join us for a deep dive
into Britney Spears's conservatorship Trapped streaming now on Fox Nation
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace And Now another bizarre twist.
(21:40):
What's the likelihood that human remains are found just two
hours away from where a woman goes missing? Social media
was rife with speculation the remains found in a wooded
area of Elm Grove were, in fact the missing woman
Gretchen Fleming. Another bizarre twist. We are now being told
(22:03):
there is quote no evidence at this time connecting human
remains found in West Virginia to the missing person case
of Gretchen Fleming. Chief Matthew Board of Parkersburg PD tells
us now the two cases are not linked. So who
is the person whose remains were found and where is Gretchen?
(22:26):
Do you guys take a listen to our cut twelve.
This is Semantha Cavalia w TAP new tonight. The parkersbur
Police Department has provided WTP with more details on Gretchen
Fleming's disappearance. If you have video surveillance, Parkersber Police Chief
Matthew Board encourages you to look for this car in
your footage. He says to check footage from late night
December third through December fifth. If you see the car
(22:48):
in your footage, contact Detective Zimmer a minute three or
four four two four ten seventy two. During after hours
you can call three or four four two four eighty
four forty four. What kind of car are they looking
forward to? David Fleming? This is Gretchen's dad, Gretchen Fleming's dad.
What kind of car are they looking for? Mister Fleming.
(23:10):
It's a black hatch back. I'm looking for the model
here caught, Thank you, that's it. What's a black Nissan
Rogue Sports, Nissan Rogue Sport now, question to the panel.
I assume that a black Nisan Rogue Sport. That's what
the described older man was driving that night. Correct, Yeah, Okay.
(23:36):
Joe Scot Morgan joining me now, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. He's got
a hit podcast, Body Bags, with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott.
They're asking the public if you have any footage of
this black hatchback Nissan Rogue Sport, call this number. We're
(24:00):
trying to piece the puzzle together. Okay, just gotta jump in. Yeah,
you begin to think about this this, you know they
have a Parkersburg has an advantage in this case where
where all of this went down went down. Now, the
periphery of Parkersburg is not a densely populated area. However,
this is a business dining district. It's down toward the river.
(24:23):
A lot of people go there and hang out. So
you've got a lot of businesses that are around there.
People are walking about. I don't know about the cams
on the camp on the stoplights and all of this
sort of thing, but businesses alone will have some kind
of CCTV footage. That's going to be important here when
you're talking about something like a montage, because she her
(24:46):
movements can be tracked, and this is something else I
think it's critical in this case. You know, Mack had
mentioned something off the air just a little while ago
about about perhaps some type of agent like a drug
being placed into her dream. If there is video footage
at one of these bars, you can actually appreciate this, Nancy,
(25:08):
the uptake of a drug like that into a system. Okay,
are you talking about GHB gama hydroxyb rate GHB or
rehibital either one there they kind of accomplish the same thing.
They're both classified as date rate drugs. But you know
the thing about it is both of these drugs and
people will find this interesting that have ever had surgery.
(25:30):
They're an aid to anaesthesia. It's like it's like a
precursor to anesthesia. They put you in this kind of
dream like state. You can't really remember anything, that sort
of thing. And to Dale's point earlier, he talked about compliance,
and that's going to be key here. But if they
have if they have footage of her having ingested a drink,
you know they're they're throwing out this thing about her
(25:52):
being inebriated. Well, you just don't get inebriated suddenly. If
there's an agent in your dream, like a date great
drug it's bam. I mean, you see it. The uptake
is like really quickly, so you could have her with
a normal gait walking about and then all of a
sudden she's stumbling. She has to have somebody put their
hands on her to aid her as she's walking along.
(26:15):
And that's going to be a big tell with this,
you know when all of this comes out. Now, back
to this car, I'm you know they say that they
question this guy. If they question this guy, I hope
that they have an eye on this car, that they
can get their hands on it as soon as possible
so that they can check this car out and track
its movements and also anything, I mean anything that might
(26:39):
be a tie back to this precious girl. I want
to add something off what you're saying, Joe Scott Morgan,
And again, mister fleming with me is Gretchen's dad. I'm
getting information about these stickers that are on the back
of the Nissan Rogue Sport. They are Darth Vader stickers
on the back pass singer windows, one on either side,
(27:02):
and apparently there is a Outer Banks sticker on the
rear window as well. Okay, Joe Scott Morgan, two words,
Michelle Parker. Do you remember the People's Court mom who
goes missing after she goes on People's Court and she
and her fiance, the father of her twin children, are
fighting mat an engagement ring. The day that it airs,
(27:27):
she goes missing, and then her vehicle is found parked
in a nearby apartment complex across the street from a mall.
As I recall a big mall and the stickers it
was for, I think a glow tan. She did, you know,
would go to various homes and part of her business
was that she would do these glow tans. There was
(27:49):
a huge sticker on her car which made it highly recognizable.
They had been very meticulously scraped off the vehicle, so
somebody knew that that would give away the location of
her car, and they did not want her car found.
I think it was a cheap or hummer maybe, so
(28:09):
jump in, Joe Scott Morgan. When you have these stickers
on a car like this, it will give you an
insight into the lives of people. Who they are, what
they do, what their interests are, where they travel too.
You know, in this case, you know we've got well,
obviously Darth Vader maybe into Star Wars and also traveling
you know outer Banks. Is this an in place that
(28:32):
this individual goes to regularly to go get away from
it all? Is that their place? Is that their thing?
Do they have associates that'd like to go there? So
it gives you an insight into their life and they're
traveling to these locations in this particular in this particular vehicle,
it goes to their style of life and how they live.
Nancy can jump. Also, it's highly identifiable vehicle with stickers
(28:54):
on it jump in, jump in share. I'm gonna call
them Joe Scott's ripe. But there's a flip side of
that coin and that is it goes to his crimes.
Meaning this is a four door car. The Darth Vader
stickers are on the bag like where children sit. Then
that sticker with the outer Banks looks like those stickers
that soccer moms put on where they go for the
girls weekends. This car was non threatening. This isn't like
(29:18):
he was in a windowless van or a big beat
up peacup truck. This does not look like a kidnappers car.
And that's on purpose, guys. This all occurs just before Christmas,
but according to police, that is not slowing down the
search for this gorgeous young girl. Gretchen take a listen
(29:38):
hour cut ten or friends at WTAP sins Scratching was
reported missing on December twelfth. Chief Board says the department
has been working around the clock. The investigation has not
slowed down. There are people dedicated specifically to this case.
And as I said, the holidays didn't slow that down.
Christmas even Christmas Day still working, so it is not
(29:59):
slowed down with time at all of anything. At its
gaining speed. So far, the department has issued and executed
several search warrants. WTAP asked if the person of interest
was a part of those search warrants. Chief Board cannot
say out this time since it is an active investigation.
I know it seems at times that we may not
be forthcoming with information, but there's a reason for that
(30:21):
and we release what we can. We've just seen in
the Idaho case where police were actively trailing suspect. I'm
not releasing the details because the suspect would have been
known and altered his behavior. We saw the same thing
in the Delphi double murder of Abbey and Libby. The
(30:43):
local police held their cards close to the vest because
if it had gotten out that there was a bullet
they thought ejected from the gun of the purp lying
between the two girls' bodies, the moment that would have
come out, you know, it would have gotten rid of
that gun in a minute, in a heartbeat. So all
(31:05):
the evidence is not as not released to the public
for a reason. Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. If you
(31:31):
know or think you know anything about the disappearance of
Gretchen Fleming, please call the tip line which is three
zero four four two four one zero seven two repeat
three zero four four two four one zero seven two.
There is a very strong chance we can help bring
(31:55):
Gretchen home alive. David Fleming is joining me. This is
Gretchen's dad. And there have been reports that Gretchen was
highly intoxicated at the time she was seen exiting the
bar the my Way Lounge karaoke lounge. If she had
(32:17):
been given HBO Ruthie, that's exactly how she would appear,
drunk out of it, much the way I believe Natalie
Holloway appeared when she left Carlos and Charlie's what can
you tell me about Gretchen. I really don't have any
information that you know, I'm just going on here say
(32:37):
of what was reported, would she have gone out with
her girlfriends and had a drinking party? Would she have
done that? Or is it more likely that she was
slipped something. You know, she probably went out and had
some drinks, you know, not to say that it could
have been both. You know, for instance, if somebody saw
me appear intoxicated, they would my close friends would That's
(32:58):
entirely wrong because I'm a tito Nancy. But I represented
a client through a very attractive woman who was at
a bar and she got raped and she had GHB
put in her drink. Uh. She was arrested for fighting
with police when she was dropped off at a fire station,
(33:21):
and she became hugely intoxicated, just as Joe Joe mentioned,
and she ultimately got charged. Interestingly, we had her blood
because they took her blood, and we could not even
find any substance like that. It is my belief that
you can't. Some of those chemicals you're not able to
(33:44):
find even with a blood draw, and Joe, it's metabolized
very very quickly. The key is, if you have a
suspect in a case like this, if you dig through
their home, you dig through their through their car, they
shouldn't be in poses of this. If they are in
possession of this, again, it runs kind of parallel to
(34:04):
the narrative. You want to know if they have it,
do they have the ability to use it? And also
if this individual has ever done anything like this before,
that's going to be a big tale as well. I
want to talk about the effects of Ruthie or GHB
SCHERL McCollum. Wouldn't she have acted or appear to be drunk,
There's no question about it. And here's what would be
also part of them. Most likely he's gonna like escort
(34:28):
her out. He's going to be like holding her elbow
or maybe have his arm around her leading her away.
And that's why I think this video is going to
be so critical. This guy has been identified by police.
We know who the POI is. Take a listen to
our cut thirteen WTAP. Chief Ford says they believe the
person of interest took Fleming to their residence. The person
(34:50):
of interest originally told officials that they gave Fleming a
ride and she departed at an unknown location. However, chief
Ford says the story was inconsistent and to know surveillance
footage led them to believe the person of interest took
her to their residence. Officials have executed search warrants on
the person of interest residence, car, electronic devices, and a
(35:10):
storage building. Chief Ford says law enforcement spoke with a
person of interest in the beginning of the investigation, but
they are no longer giving police information. The Parkersburg Police
Department returned to one of the locations that it first
searched back on December fifteenth. Parkersburg Police Chief Matt Board
confirmed that the home on the thirteen hundred block of
(35:32):
Division Street is where the person of interest in the
Gretchen Fleming case lives. Police are not releasing that person's
name at this time. I'm learning a lot from what
I just heard. Number One, everything we were talking about
regarding gathering surveillance at that intersection where the POI says
he dropped dra off. Forget that that's null and void,
(35:56):
because now we know police say they have a dish information.
I believe it to be CCTV or SIR surveillance video
some sort that tells them he took her to his place.
Now right there, Karen Stark, if he took her to
(36:16):
his place and then she left? Why not just say
that I brought her home. She wanted to leave, so
I got her an uber. Why not say that if
that's what happened. Why lie? If in fact he did lie, Well, Nancy,
let's let's be clear about this. Those just the fact
that he's no longer cooperating, That speaks volumes about him
(36:38):
holding information and being concerned. And he would not tell
the truth if he brought her back, because why would
he would? That would make him be even more suspect.
So this is a nefarious character, There's no doubt in
my mind. Just just hearing that he's refusing to cooperate
(36:59):
at this point, and it makes you wonder what would
be the next steps that they would be taking. Well,
another thing is I believe Karen Start, You're exactly correct,
they're looking at the next step. Did anyone see that
particular Nissan rogue after it went to his David Flemy?
(37:22):
This is gretched his dad as in an apartment or
a home. It was a real house, a rental home.
I wonder if they're wanting surveillance or witnesses that saw
the car after the car left the home. As a
matter of fact, take a listen to our cut fifteen
Gina Marini, and they want anyone who lives in that
area to review their secure home security systems to see
(37:45):
if this car is in any of the footage from
early morning hours of December fourth through noon on the fit.
Let's go over what we can see about the car
that might help it stand out to you. Now, it's
a black Nissan Rogue Sport. We don't know the year,
but it seems to be fairly newar model. From this
photo of the back there's a Pittsburgh Penguins vanity plate cover. Now,
(38:06):
one distinct thing that might show up on your home footage.
Both sides of the car have these Darth Vader decals
on the backseat windows, as you can see in the photos.
It's above the gas stoor and on the other side
as well. And one more close up of the car,
we can see an outer Bank sticker on the left
side of the rear windshield. Nancy, I gotta jump in,
please please do. I'm gonna go back to that video
(38:29):
for a second. Whether or not she had her purse
when she left is key. Second. If she had her purse,
then her phone is going to paying wherever he took
her to his residence or elsewhere. The other thing is
who brought that purse back that phone would still be
paying in. Well, it's my understanding she left the purse
at the bar, the original bar perhaps, and the friend
(38:52):
boy actually took it back when he couldn't find her
to the bar where they originally met David Fleming. Do
we know who handed the purse over to the establishment? Yeah?
Who wasn't? And I don't want to say name. I
don't need a name. I just need to know. Was
it somebody there at the bar that night? Was it
(39:13):
a waiter or a waitress? Was it the friend guy?
It was? It was the friend guy that returned the
first back to the guarden. Aha. Okay, that's telling me
a lot. What do you make of that, Charyl McCollum Again,
what I would focus on now is his cell phone
pings and if they have flock cameras picking up his
car all over town, where did he go after going
(39:34):
to his home. That's a really good point. If he
didn't go to the home, and we'll hope we know
that he did go to the home. The cops have
already told us that they believe he took her to
the home and what Charyla was saying is where did
he go? Immediately after? David Fleming is with me. This
is Gretchen's dad. David. Has Gretchen ever stayed out of
(39:57):
touch for this long? No, there is no doubt in
my mind she has met with foul play. At this
very moment, she could be being held against her will.
Straight out to Crime Online's Dave Mack, what can you
tell us? The search for Gretchen Fleming continues and the
Parkersburg Police want everyone to know. The reward money for
information regarding the disappearance of the twenty eight year old
(40:18):
has been up to sixty five thousand dollars. Police report
a reward of thirty two five hundred has been offered
to anyone with substantial information concerning Fleming's physical location. A
separate reward for the same amount has been offered for
information leading to the arrest and conviction of anyone involved
in Fleming's disappearance or physically harming the woman. Parkersburg Police
(40:40):
Chief Matthew Board said Fleming's family attributes the substantial increases
in reward money to business owners who quote care about
Gretchen and the Parkersburg area and wanted to help, but
wish to remain anonymous. Une As we go to air now,
we understand that the human remains found in a wooded
area on Cemetery Lifeane of all places, have been identified
(41:03):
as that of missing man Wesley Maddox, missing since October,
forty one year old Maddox went missing when he was
reportedly walking to the drug store with his dog but
never returned home. His mom, Jeans, says she is confident
the body discovered on Cemetery Lane is that of her
(41:24):
son and she is planning a memorial for him. We
wait as the evidence unfalse. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing
off Goodbye Friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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