Dulce Alavez has been missing nearly a month. Was the little girl abducted or is family involved in her disappearance? Joining Nancy Grace to discuss the facts: Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina Family attorney; John Cardillo, Former NYPD; Caryn Stark,Psychologist; Sheryl McCollum, Crime Scene Expert and Founder, The Cold Case Investigative Research Institute; and Alexis Terezchuck with Radaronline.com.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Um, I can't find my daughter. Okay,
when was the last time you seen her? We moved
here at the part seven, people said that somebody probably
somebody's tisker. Okay. How old is she? She's five years old? Okay?
(00:28):
And what park are you at here? In Burston Park? Okay?
We're at the Burston Park, are you, um, the one
with the basketball court where high school is? Okay, so
you're at the basketball courts behind high school? Yes, okay.
(00:49):
And what was she seen last wearing? She was wearing? Um, um,
give me a second, you play with the was on
the movies. I don't remember what closer she was wearing,
but she was wearing. I just remember what ten she
was wearing, like a flower for flowery tens and some
heels from white heels. Okay, I'm stand li, I'm I
(01:13):
trying to hear to the police. Okay, you said she
was five, correct? Yes? All right? Hello ma'am, Hello, Hey,
did you see which direction your child went? You know,
we were in the car when she came down with
my son. They were running to the park, and then
me and sister we came down. So when when when
(01:33):
we got here? At the park she was in years
sisty be that my son was just climbing with ice
cream because somebody to his ice cream in the plum.
My daughter just went away. The reward for information on
the missing five year old little girl Dulse ALIVEAZ who
vanishes from a local park has now climbed to fifty
two thousand dollars. Where is Dulse? With every day, every hour,
(02:01):
literally every minute that passes, the likelihood of bringing this
little girl home alive diminishes with me an all star panel.
Kathleen Murphy, renowned family lawyer, joining side of North Carolina.
Former NYPD John Cardillo, psychologists joining us from Manhattan. Karen Stark,
(02:22):
you can find her at Karen Stark dot com. Director
of the Coal Case Research Institute and crime scene expert
Cheryl McCullum. Right now to rate oar online dot COM's
Alexis Terres. Alexis, I am very irritated right now because
not to name any names, but some headlines are saying
(02:43):
five year old girl may have been objected. Look, I
don't know who took her, but somebody kidnapped her. Somebody
took her. I don't like that insinuation. What the what
she ran off and she's living on the riviera and
a pair of Neil sunglasses. No, she was taken, Alexis.
(03:04):
What's the latest. The latest is that her mother has
said she called nine one one in a panic. She
was sitting in the park with her with another eight
year old relative in the car. She was playing with
her little boy her little brother, just steps away from
each other to sin a park right the wh wh
whoa whoa whoa wa Alexis Terestchuck, investigative reporter, rater online
(03:26):
dot com. I hate to take you to school, but
she wasn't just a few steps away. I mean, Cheryl
McCollum backed me up. Now we know Alexis Tereshchuk is
a new mom. Okay, so maybe in her mind thirty
yards at some ninety feet away. Cheryl McCollum, now, Alexis Tereshchuk,
(03:48):
maybe you're faster than I am. But if a guy
pulls up and a reddish colored minivan and waves at
the little girl she gets in the car, I really
don't think that the mom in a car talking to
her eight year old little sisters. I understand who the
child was with her two children ninety feet away. I
(04:09):
don't think she's that fast. She's not an Olympic sprinter, Sheryl.
Not only that, Nancy, where she was sitting in her car,
there's like a little heel a mound. She couldn't see
over it to see the swings where the children apparently went.
She had no field of vision to watch them from
where she was. Now another Crack reporter, Jackie Howard sitting
(04:31):
here chiming in, has now reported from her quote sources
that the mom was scratching lottery tickets. What do you know,
alexis terres Chuck. That is what has been reported, that
she was not paying attention at all, and that she
was scratching lottery tickets. I just am finding this story, Nancy,
to be It is hurting my heart so much too.
(04:53):
When I look at this picture of this little girl,
and I just, after all the stories that we have covered,
in everything that you always say, it is really scaring
me for her. And I hesitate to say anything about
the mom because I'm just afraid that some other people
took her. I look at that little face, and there's
just something that's really scaring me about this story, you know,
the one that gets to me. Karen Stark. I think
(05:15):
we need a shrink because Alexis and I Cheryl McCollum,
you know, apparently this is just an old hat to
her because she doesn't seem to feel a thing. But
Karen Star, Alexis is right. I'm looking at the picture
of Dulcie with the pigtails way up on top of
her head. She is the cutest thing. I just I
(05:38):
can't imagine somebody taking this little girl, Karen Stark, And
why is it? It strikes us to the heart because
she's a little girl, because she's so innocent, because there's
no way that she can defend herself. If you think
of the story and you imagine what might have happened
that this man approached her and offered her a toy.
(06:00):
Are somebody that people like this, Men like this are
very skilled at being able to attract little children, and
so this innocent little girl follows him and hasn't been
seen since. And it's hard to imagine that any mother
would take her eye off of this child and not
(06:21):
have her in her view. It's just the status heartbreaking.
It really, it hits all of us, Nancy, because we
all know how innocent children are, and we love children,
you know. To Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer, I
kind of resent the headlines that Dulsie may have been kidnapped.
She was kidnapped. Now, I don't know who did it
(06:44):
or for what reason, but this child was taking Kathleen.
Why are they saying that? And I don't like aspersions
cast on the mom right now because there have been
times I've had the children at the playground, not ninety
feet away from me, but at the playground and I've
had to go back to the car and get bottled water,
or I've been sitting on a bench and I looked
(07:05):
at my look down to work onto my iPad while
they're playing. So I'm not gonna steam the mom. I'm
not gonna boil her in the hot water because she
was scratching a lot of tickets. But I do think
ninety feet was too far away to be Why are
the headlines saying that, Kathleen Murphy. To me, it's very
clear that they've identified some person of interest in regards
(07:28):
to being at the park at the same time. It
was a red van, I believe. So it's clear to
me like it is to you, that this child has
been taken and now we learn the entire narrative is changing.
The witnesses who claim they see a Hispanic man with
acne scars on his face lure Dulce into a reddish
(07:49):
color van or minivan. Now there's a whole different story emerging.
Climb stories with Nancy Grace. The police have now issued
(08:10):
an amber alert. They say they have reason to believe
that she was abducted. These are the last images of
Luce Madia before as she vanished. She wore a yellow
shirt with a Koala bear on the front, black and
white pants, and white sandals. Police also have the description
of the man who is believed to have abducted her
from the bridget In City Park. They say he is
(08:30):
light skinned, about five six to five eight, a thin billed,
no facial hair, acne on his face, wearing orange sneakers,
possibly Nike, red pants, and a black shirt. Police say
this mystery man led Luce from the playground to a
red van with a sliding door and tinted windows. She
was seated in the back by that man and then
(08:50):
he drove off around four twenty. That would be just
minutes after her mother last saw her. You were hearing
ABC Action News reporter Jeanette Ray. Yes, but white a minute.
They narrative as now drastically changing. Take a listen to this.
You didn't see anyone else around there that she could
p possibly have went with. No, not no that I
(09:15):
know because we saw one. There's just some other people
that they're here that said that they saw her running
running through through some houses in the back. And they
said that they saw two firs. They saw two men
they all black guy and they saw Mexican man with
two kids. They who's saying that they saw them? But
(09:36):
there's people here in the basketball courts that they saw her,
they saw her listings. They're saying that there's people they're
at the basketball court that they saw her running through
some houses with two black males. She light skin, Spanish?
What color top does she have on? Um? I don't remember. Okay,
(10:00):
are you at the basketball court? Yes, I'm right here
right now. She's that's the firm. She says that she's
at the basketball court. And do you have your son
with you? Or is your son? No, I have my
son with me. They said. Um. He was crying on
the sounds. He was just standing their crimes. He was
(10:20):
standing their crimes. Okay, So which is it? Is it
a Hispanic male with acne scars on his face, short
mail getting her into a red, a reddish colored van
or a minivan? Or is it a black male with
a Hispanic man with two kids? Or is it two
black males running with Dulcie? Listen to this. He said
(10:46):
that the black males took his ice cream. No, they
threw it in the floor. They took his ice cream
and throw it on the floor, and then they left
with your daughter, probably because I didn't saw it when
we came in and looked for her. We were looking
everywhere for her, was at the basketball court with her daughter.
(11:08):
That there was two black mails that took her son's
ice cream and threw it on the ground and left
with her daughter. Okay, well we have the officers, are
you on, Mayor aikin Um? I already have an officer here. Okay,
all right, well speak with the police, may I'm okay, Okay,
(11:32):
which one is it? Did sheer On McCallum, director of
the Cold Case Research Institute. I am not saying the
mom is involved in this. Let's just be clear about that.
But do you remember when Susan Smith insisted it was
an African American male. I was still in the courtroom
at that time, and I was trying to case alone,
(11:54):
but I think I was being threatened with the contempt
of court again. And my friend, who is now a judge,
Herman Sloan, came into the courtroom with a stack of
appellot books to try to save me. God bless him.
And somebody showed me the sketch of who allegedly took
Susan Smith's children, and I said, Herman, where were you?
(12:17):
It looked just like herman. So he died laughing. I'm like, hey, hey,
don't laugh too much, Herman. So now we hear just
is this muddle of confusion. We've got a Hispanic man
with acne that lures her into a reddish colored van
or minivan. Now we've got a Hispanic mail and an
African American mail. Now I've got two African But remember
(12:39):
before we blame this all on the mom. She's relaying
what people on the basketball court are telling her. It
is my understanding, Cheryl, she reay because she didn't see it.
So here's the issue. This is why people are concerned,
and this is why law enforcement is, you know, running
down every lead in every avenue, because she starts looking
(13:01):
for her daughters, supposedly for ten or fifteen minutes. When
she can't find her, she doesn't call the police, Nancy.
She calls her brother. After another thirty or forty minutes,
then they called the police. So now an hour has
passed with this child, Missy. There's not a mama that's
(13:23):
gonna tell you that would ever happen. We've all heard
your story when you couldn't find John David and Target
for thirty seconds and you wanted the whole place lockdown,
so an hour and you didn't see it, and your
best witness is a crying three year old. We have
flagn all over creation that you've got to verify. She's
(13:46):
claiming now again, when she calls nine one one, she's
not begging for help. She's not demanded that they hurry,
she's not demanded that they find her. And she never
says it's some man. She says somebody, someone, not even
a gender. So there's lots of concerns here for me.
Well quote, somebody probably took her. Okay, I understand John Cardillo,
(14:10):
former NYPD is chopping at the bit jump in, John, Yeah,
I don't believe in where this mother says, So I'm
gonna come out and say she needs to be the
primary suspect right now. If you if you go back
to be cases, the well known case of the child
abduction and many of the men did terribly go back
to the Polyclass case many years ago. If you look
at the fact pattern of that case and the evidence,
(14:32):
her dad mark class, and her mom remembered minute details.
They could have told you which way her bangs were
hanging that morning, to the right or to the left,
the pattern polyester to cotton, composition of her clothing. It
defies all reason. The mom doesn't know what color pants,
Oh maybe flowered, maybe black and white. I don't remember
(14:54):
what color shirt. I don't really know where they were.
They threw my son's ice cream on the floor. I've
not heard a less believable story from an alleged complaining victim.
And I work these specific cases quite a bit with
the National Center for Missing and Exploded Children. Read a
lot of nine one one transcripts. Nancy, if I were
(15:16):
the investigator here, the mom would be my primary primary suspect.
Nothing about this fact pattern or the timeline makes any
sense whatsoever. We'll take a listen to what ABC six
Philadelphia reporter John Rawlins says. The plight of the missing
girl is on people's minds a lot, really, and our
churches constantly talk about him, prayingport that safety for the
(15:38):
little girl's messed up. Man, Like you gotta look at
the prospective, like if it was hit child, how would
you fail? People were boggled by this, you know what
I mean. It's it's mind blowing the fact that he
had a mother and two little kids and where did
she go. Officials again are asking people with cell phone
images from the park at the time of the abduction
to upload those images to the FBI the hope a video,
(16:02):
say an athletic event, might include someone or something in
the background that could aid investigators. The FBI used such
uploads investigating a missing child in North Carolina in twenty
eighteen and the Boston bomber case in twenty thirteen. So
with that in mind again, authorities are urging anyone who
might have video from here in the park in Bridgeton
(16:22):
between three and six pm on Monday, September sixteenth, that's
the time period where the little girl dell Say went missing,
to please upload that video if you can crime stories
(16:44):
with Nancy Grace. Nothing is one hundred certainty until we
find us. Despite limited answers, we are still learning new
information about the moments after duels. Say and her family
stopped for ice cream on that warm Monday. She and
her three year old brother Rando the swings. They were unsupervised,
(17:05):
and in less than ten minutes, no one emergency. Um,
I can't find my daughter. Okay, what was the worst
any seener we moved here at the fourteen People said
that somebody probably somebody's from Bridgeton City Park. This nine
one one call rang into police from the girl's mother. No,
(17:25):
Emma dn't see anyone else around there that she could
possibly have went with. This are black guy and this
Mexican man, and police later learned only one man took Dulsay,
not two. That's one of the reasons why there was
a delay in the Amber alert, because I'm sure that's
going to be one of your questions is that we
(17:47):
have to vet that information. We have to verify that
information through interview, interviewing the witness by law enforcement. Also
at the center of that Amber alert was a red
van whose driver has yet to be identified. I am
not wed to the red vehicle. The witness that gave
us that information is a child of tender years. I
(18:09):
will not discount it. I will not ask the public
to disregard it. Wow, you are hearing the very latest,
including NBC ten reporters Sydney Long. Guys. Where is Dulce.
I'm looking at a picture right now of her and
something that John Cardillo, former NYPD said has really struck
a nerve. Alexis ures Chuck, I can tell you right
(18:32):
now what the twins have on. It was a special
day at school today and they're having all day games
to celebrate a Saint. Okay, and he John David has
on black Champion shorts that come down to about his knees.
(18:52):
He has on red Adidas shoes, and he's got on
black socks. It's a fashion felony, I know this. And
he's got a T shirt that the school gave him.
Lucy has got on black Nike shorts with white trim
that she wore in her volleyball as her volleyball suit.
She's got the same T shirt. Her hair is parted
(19:15):
in the middle, she has on no socks, and she
has on white tennis shoes. Not a major brand, but
with red and white stripe down the side going vertically.
John David's hair is not parted in any particular way.
I suggested to him in the car that he parted
left to right. That didn't happen. He took it and
(19:37):
combed it straight down, straight down. It's not a good look,
but that's what he does. Okay, I can tell you exactly.
I won't go into it because they may hear this
one day, Bimbares. I even know what underwear they had
on because I laid it out for him last night.
All right, Okay, hers are purple and his are blue.
There I said it, So I'm concerned this mom. Even
(20:00):
I know what Dulcie was wearing. Shed I'm looking away.
I'm not even looking at a picture Jackie. Yes, yes, Now,
she had on long black and white checked tights. They
may be a thin cotton or on some kind of nylon.
She had on a short sleeve yellow shirt that came down,
you know, mid thigh, a little higher than mid thigh,
(20:22):
and it has a white panda or koala bear on
the front. And she looks like she has on socks.
I can't totally tell that, but she has on little heels,
like little girl heels, and they look to be of
a light color, and her hair is partially pulled back.
That's what I recall without looking. Yeah, okay, that's right.
(20:42):
And she's precious. And and here's another thing. There's a
photo of her at crime online dot com wearing this outfit.
Because you keep hearing about an ice cream just before
she goes missing, they were at a gas station, a
Snowco gas station, and that's where they got ice creams
hers coconut. Now that concerns me that the mom didn't
(21:03):
know those details. Explain Alexis, Well, the mom had to
me some very panicked and she couldn't remember it. You're
exactly right. She when the police officer asked her that nine.
When one operator said what was she wearing, she says,
I don't remember. She can't remember anything. And she is
telling her though. She says to the operator, a black
man and a Mexican man are the two men that
(21:24):
people around here are saying may have taken her. The
operator then there, you know, it's a frantic situation, talks
over her. They talk over each other, then says it
as two black men. Then the story changes to it's
one Hispanic man and he has acne scars on his face.
So it went from two men, no idea, and then this,
(21:45):
but you know the little boy, her little brother, who's
only three years old. When it first happened, he was
pointing towards buildings, say, you know, pointing that's where she went.
That's where she went. Then the story changes too, she
got in the van and went away when they talked
to some older people. So there are a lot of
conflicting stories on this, but you're right the mom did
not know what her little girl was wearing. Cheryl McCollum,
(22:05):
have you made sense out of the various stories? Me?
I's the one thing that concerns me is when mom
says the little boy's ice cream fell on the floor,
she repeats the floor. They were there, They were outside,
It should have been grounds. So this leads me to
think was there in situation with the ice cream that
fell on the floorboard of the car or the floor
(22:25):
inside their house? It sounds like they were inside, not outside.
That concerns me. Again, everything that comes out of this
woman's mouth. I want to believe her, I can't. She's
not given me any reason to believe her. You don't
know what she's wearing. You never use her name, you
never ask for help, You part far away. Our best
(22:47):
witness is a crime three year old and some child
that describes somebody that even the police don't believe that
she was there. The video of her getting ice cream
is the last time we have her own film. Did
nobody else at the park took a picture as a video?
Nobody own a camera or you know, a surveillance camera. Hazard,
(23:10):
They can't verify she was ever in that. John Cardillo
from an NYPD sounds like you and Cheryl McCollum in
the same boat. Yeah. Absolutely, That's one of my issues
as well, Nancy. I'm not sure the child was ever
in the park because we live in a surveillance state
right now. I mean, I've got ring doorbells on my
front door, the front gate. Go one on the front
gate to my house. I've gone on the front door
(23:31):
to my house behind the gate, and then I've got
on my garages in the back of my house. I've
got one there as well, And I would say eighty
percent of my neighbors have that ring doorbell or another
brand of video doorbell. I mean, you really can't go
anywhere today without some surveillance camera capturing something. But again,
like Cheryl, I see no evidence that the child ever
(23:52):
made it to the park. That's my main concern. And
what do we really have with the mom's description. Well,
maybe these people exist, maybe they don't, But we have
right now perfectly legal behavior by other individuals. Maybe there
was a black and hispanic man walking through the park.
That's legal behavior. There was a red van park down
the street, that's legal behavior. So in and of itself,
(24:12):
sure the police have to run those leads down. But
even the witnesses, and I use that term loosely, aren't
alleging even criminal behavior by other people that may have
been in the park, just the mere fact that they
have to be eliminated because they may or may not
have been there. But again, I have suspicions that the
kid ever made it to the park itself. To Kassley Murphy,
North Carolina family lawyer, way in Nancy, there's an eight
(24:34):
year old that was apparently with this mother, and I
have not heard anything about what this eight year old
is saying and whether they were actually in the parking lots,
whether the kids were with them, But it is concerning
to me that nothing, absolutely nothing has come from this
mother that's been helpful. You are analyzing this in a
(24:54):
completely different vein. I'm just wondering, are we attacking the mom?
We need to attack somebody, and we don't know which
way to go with it or our Cheryl McCollum and
John Cardillo are absolutely righten crime stories with Nancy Grace.
(25:25):
Additional video of Dulce alivez released by her mother via
a family friend, the playful five year old mugging to
a cell phone camera, apparently just days before her abduction.
Authorities not releasing any official information today. Earlier this week,
the FBI had been working on a face to face
meeting with Dulce's father, who lives in Mexico. It's not
(25:45):
clear if that meetup has taken place. This afternoon, Dulce's
maternal grandmother was putting up more missing posters near her
home in Bridgeton. Dulce was last seen by her mom
at this Bridgeton playground September sixteenth, at this nearby zoo. Today,
people some with your kids and grandkids, talked about the
now days long search. I just think it gets a
(26:07):
little more tragic the longer goes. You know, it's just
pretty sad. Really, this mother told us she thinks authorities
and maybe some of the little girl's own family knows
more than it's being said publicly. She says she follows
the story via social media every day. I'll keep posted
on all the news channels. Everybody that's posting something. I
(26:29):
try to cheap updates. I want to know where she is.
I want to know. I want to know where she
is too. You were just hearing ABC six Philadelphia reporter
John rawlins everyone fixated on the search for Dulce Alavez,
a five year old girl who goes missing, apparently from
a local park. The Bridgeton part. The reward for information
(26:49):
about this little New Jersey girl who vanishes has now
climbed to fifty two thousand dollars and a Facebook post
in the last hours in New Jersey. State police say
it the police who don't make half of what they
should make for what they do. They are contributing ten
(27:10):
thousand dollars to the reward as the search goes on,
and in addition to that from the state police, the
Philadelphia Lodge Number five Fraternal Order Police more police donating
five thousand dollars. Two other donations for a thousand dollars
were added to the reward. Now we're learning this from
the Bridge to Police department. What happened to Dulcie Police
(27:33):
Chief Michael Gamieri Sor says that investigators have gathered a
substantial amount of information, but still no Dulce. Now we've
also heard that police believe the child is still alive.
Why John Cardillo, former NYPD, why would they say that
they might be approaching this now as a custodio interference case.
(27:56):
The FBI wants to meet with the dad in Mexico,
so they might possibly have of it is that members
of the paternal family or a member of the paternal
family might have just taken the little girls with them.
And if that's the case, then she's not in danger.
This might become a criminal slash civil situation. Can write
a custody case and it would still be a criminal
(28:17):
abduction in most places. But that I mean, let's hope
that's the case, because then her safety isn't in question.
Then it just becomes a legal issue. But that's my suspicion.
With the with being released in limited fashion. Right now,
we'll take a listen to what ABC six Philadelphia reporter
John Rollins says, well, the investigation continues to grind on here,
and the authorities make it a point that it is
(28:39):
still a wide open investigation. Pretty much nothing is off
the table at this time. We were told the FBI
has spoken by phone with the little girl's father. He
lives in Mexico. The hope is at some point soon
they will be able to have a face to face
talk with him to try to see if he can
shed any light on what happened to the little girl.
Authorities say they continue to operate under the premise that
(29:02):
the little girls seen here getting ice cream, Dulse Alivez
is still alive. They say they will continue to treat
her disappearance as a missing person until evidence indicates otherwise.
For more than a week, a small army of investigators
have searched the Bridgeton City Park where Dulce was last seen.
Others not seen. Are in the process of collecting terabytes
of data from cell phone communications, along with video from
(29:24):
multiple cameras, including those on school buses and police vehicles.
The Prosecutor's office said video of a red vehicle recently
broadcast had been investigated and determined not involved in the abduction.
You know, I'm looking at news alerts as late as
just yesterday and they're still talking about the red van
and describing the Hispanic mail with black hair and acne scars.
(29:47):
I just it's so much information as being disseminated. Alexis
terres check. How we now learn they've ruled out the
red minivan or is it still a possibility. While the
investigators have said that they found a they researched it,
they investigated it, and there's this one band that was
ruled out, but that is still out there. And what
they said from the very beginning was that what the
(30:10):
authorities said it was a tender age person. So it's
obviously the little boy, the little brother who's just three
years old, and you know, a three year old red
blue green. They know their colors, but under questioning, they
might not be able to get it said correctly. So
this was something that I think that they were very
hesitant to say from the very beginning. There's never been
a license played or anything identified with that, so they
(30:34):
have pretty much ruled this out. I know they looked
at over five hundred reddish tinted vehicles. Cheryl McCollum nathy.
They've checked every red vehicle, not just vans. They have
searched by foot, by boats, they used infrared technology on
a helicopter. They've used dive teams, but sonar canines they
(30:54):
brought in the FBI. They have done everything possible to
find this child. And again this point for me and
this investigation, Mama needs to take a polygraph. Okay to you,
Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer. The dad is in Mexico,
all right, and police are not going down there. That
(31:15):
tells me they don't believe the dad's involved. He's not involved.
I mean, they have him on like a bust the
video phone, and they know he's in Mexico, and I
can guarantee he's probably not got connections to be able
to transport this child. Take a listen to ABC Action.
He's reporter Maggie Kent. Now, state and local police are
(31:37):
joined by the FBI Child Abduction Division. As the search continues,
so does a criminal investigation. If the child wandered away,
time is of the essence. Obviously, If there's something foul
play amiss, time is also of the essence. The professional
search crews are utilizing every tool available in the air,
(31:58):
on the ground, and underwater, and strangers are stepping into help.
I thought I'd come down and just walk and look
and see what I could do. But I could see
this as a difficult search. I'm very concerned about this
little girl, and I pray to God that she's found shortly.
We just got an update from police lesson in an
hour ago, who say they have to use canines to
(32:20):
search with this little girl's mother's car, which is still
parked in this parking lot right near the playground where
she went missing. They've also searched the family home. The family,
they say, has been more than cooperative. Although the FBI
Child Abduction Unit is here, there are no clues to
indicate that Dulce was abducted. Did you hear that? Did
(32:42):
you hear that? John Cardillo from her NYPD no clues
to suggest she was abducted. What about what all the
witnesses are saying, Well, you only don't have any credible witnesses,
right I man, we've been saying, And you've got little kids,
You've got the mom who is suspected as diagramming with
Cheryl has said mom needs to take a polygraph, but
I would look at dad's family. Let's face it, howeverus
(33:04):
lies it. This is not the most attentive nurturing mother. Okay,
I think we've established that. No matter how this cake
shakes out. I mean, you're ninety yards it was the
thirty yards away. I don't let my dog get thirty
yards away if I walk them off Policiana Park. You
don't let your little adorable five year old get ninety
feet away. I mean, that's just ridiculous. And so maybe
(33:25):
the dad's family, there might be an aunt, there might
be a grandmother, there might be an uncle who saw
signs of neglect. Now we don't know that. But my
point is we have no evidence in this case. There's nothing,
no evidence of abduction, not a bow and her hair
left on the ground, nothing. So the police are definitely
definitely looking at the mom. But at the same time,
(33:48):
they know the dad was in Mexico. Sure we can
rule him out, but now they're looking at this he
a family here was we're Child and Family Services ever
called to this home. That's gonna be a big indicator
if we get that data point we find out that
they were. I could have been a family friend, it
could have been anybody for any reason. But I do,
just in my gut, I do feel the police are
(34:09):
on the right track when they say they feel she's
still alive. I do as well. Karen Stark psychologists joining
us out of Manhattan. You can find her at Karen
Stark dot com. Karen, why do you believe people are
attacking the mom? It's because we don't know where else
to turn. Well, that may be part of it, Nancy,
but there's also the fact that it took so long
to get in touch with the authorities. I mean, I
(34:32):
think that the story which you've told about John David
is very indicative of what a parent would do. I
can't imagine a mom having this child disappear she didn't
remember what she was wearing, but not getting in touch
with the police immediately when her child isn't there, calling
her brother. That does not ring true to me. I
(34:55):
don't understand it. Well, it's ters Radar online dot com
Investigate reporter. What more do you know? I want to
tell y'all that the other day I was at a
corn maize. We have huge pumpkin hatches out here in California,
and my little boy, who's five and his best friend, Mackenzie.
They ran into the corn maize together. The other mom
and I followed. We could not find them. We were
(35:17):
calling their names, calling, calling, calling, We went deeper into
the corn maize. The other mom said, I'm going to
turn around and I'm going to go to the front.
She went back to the front. They were both there crying.
We had myself, that was probably a good fifteen minutes
that we were searching for them inside the corn mais
thinking they were there, and they were outside, and there
were police crawling all over this place. So the kids
(35:38):
would have been fine, but it was a little while before,
you know, And if we hadn't found them, we then
would have called. But I don't think this is such
a long time for this mom to not have called
the police. You search, you call your family, you say,
oh my gosh, I can't find her. I could be
wrong on this. I know we all have good instincts,
but I do not see this as the mom having
done this. And I will take responsibility if I'm wrong.
(36:00):
But I think this is somebody who was searching, searching, searching.
Called her brother. He hardly said called the police. She
called the police, and she is in a panic, looking
for her little daughter. We wait as the search goes
on for a five year old Dulcie Maria Alavaz. Tipline
eight five six four five one zero zero three three
eight five six four five one zero zero three three
(36:23):
eight hundred call FBI. Nancy Grace crib Story, signing off
goodbye friend
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Um, I can't find my daughter. Okay,
when was the last time you seen her? We moved
here at the part seven, people said that somebody probably
somebody's tisker. Okay. How old is she? She's five years old? Okay?
(00:28):
And what park are you at here? In Burston Park? Okay?
We're at the Burston Park, are you, um, the one
with the basketball court where high school is? Okay, so
you're at the basketball courts behind high school? Yes, okay.
(00:49):
And what was she seen last wearing? She was wearing? Um, um,
give me a second, you play with the was on
the movies. I don't remember what closer she was wearing,
but she was wearing. I just remember what ten she
was wearing, like a flower for flowery tens and some
heels from white heels. Okay, I'm stand li, I'm I
(01:13):
trying to hear to the police. Okay, you said she
was five, correct? Yes? All right? Hello ma'am, Hello, Hey,
did you see which direction your child went? You know,
we were in the car when she came down with
my son. They were running to the park, and then
me and sister we came down. So when when when
(01:33):
we got here? At the park she was in years
sisty be that my son was just climbing with ice
cream because somebody to his ice cream in the plum.
My daughter just went away. The reward for information on
the missing five year old little girl Dulse ALIVEAZ who
vanishes from a local park has now climbed to fifty
two thousand dollars. Where is Dulse? With every day, every hour,
(02:01):
literally every minute that passes, the likelihood of bringing this
little girl home alive diminishes with me an all star panel.
Kathleen Murphy, renowned family lawyer, joining side of North Carolina.
Former NYPD John Cardillo, psychologists joining us from Manhattan. Karen Stark,
(02:22):
you can find her at Karen Stark dot com. Director
of the Coal Case Research Institute and crime scene expert
Cheryl McCullum. Right now to rate oar online dot COM's
Alexis Terres. Alexis, I am very irritated right now because
not to name any names, but some headlines are saying
(02:43):
five year old girl may have been objected. Look, I
don't know who took her, but somebody kidnapped her. Somebody
took her. I don't like that insinuation. What the what
she ran off and she's living on the riviera and
a pair of Neil sunglasses. No, she was taken, Alexis.
(03:04):
What's the latest. The latest is that her mother has
said she called nine one one in a panic. She
was sitting in the park with her with another eight
year old relative in the car. She was playing with
her little boy her little brother, just steps away from
each other to sin a park right the wh wh
whoa whoa whoa wa Alexis Terestchuck, investigative reporter, rater online
(03:26):
dot com. I hate to take you to school, but
she wasn't just a few steps away. I mean, Cheryl
McCollum backed me up. Now we know Alexis Tereshchuk is
a new mom. Okay, so maybe in her mind thirty
yards at some ninety feet away. Cheryl McCollum, now, Alexis Tereshchuk,
(03:48):
maybe you're faster than I am. But if a guy
pulls up and a reddish colored minivan and waves at
the little girl she gets in the car, I really
don't think that the mom in a car talking to
her eight year old little sisters. I understand who the
child was with her two children ninety feet away. I
(04:09):
don't think she's that fast. She's not an Olympic sprinter, Sheryl.
Not only that, Nancy, where she was sitting in her car,
there's like a little heel a mound. She couldn't see
over it to see the swings where the children apparently went.
She had no field of vision to watch them from
where she was. Now another Crack reporter, Jackie Howard sitting
(04:31):
here chiming in, has now reported from her quote sources
that the mom was scratching lottery tickets. What do you know,
alexis terres Chuck. That is what has been reported, that
she was not paying attention at all, and that she
was scratching lottery tickets. I just am finding this story, Nancy,
to be It is hurting my heart so much too.
(04:53):
When I look at this picture of this little girl,
and I just, after all the stories that we have covered,
in everything that you always say, it is really scaring
me for her. And I hesitate to say anything about
the mom because I'm just afraid that some other people
took her. I look at that little face, and there's
just something that's really scaring me about this story, you know,
the one that gets to me. Karen Stark. I think
(05:15):
we need a shrink because Alexis and I Cheryl McCollum,
you know, apparently this is just an old hat to
her because she doesn't seem to feel a thing. But
Karen Star, Alexis is right. I'm looking at the picture
of Dulcie with the pigtails way up on top of
her head. She is the cutest thing. I just I
(05:38):
can't imagine somebody taking this little girl, Karen Stark, And
why is it? It strikes us to the heart because
she's a little girl, because she's so innocent, because there's
no way that she can defend herself. If you think
of the story and you imagine what might have happened
that this man approached her and offered her a toy.
(06:00):
Are somebody that people like this, Men like this are
very skilled at being able to attract little children, and
so this innocent little girl follows him and hasn't been
seen since. And it's hard to imagine that any mother
would take her eye off of this child and not
(06:21):
have her in her view. It's just the status heartbreaking.
It really, it hits all of us, Nancy, because we
all know how innocent children are, and we love children,
you know. To Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer, I
kind of resent the headlines that Dulsie may have been kidnapped.
She was kidnapped. Now, I don't know who did it
(06:44):
or for what reason, but this child was taking Kathleen.
Why are they saying that? And I don't like aspersions
cast on the mom right now because there have been
times I've had the children at the playground, not ninety
feet away from me, but at the playground and I've
had to go back to the car and get bottled water,
or I've been sitting on a bench and I looked
(07:05):
at my look down to work onto my iPad while
they're playing. So I'm not gonna steam the mom. I'm
not gonna boil her in the hot water because she
was scratching a lot of tickets. But I do think
ninety feet was too far away to be Why are
the headlines saying that, Kathleen Murphy. To me, it's very
clear that they've identified some person of interest in regards
(07:28):
to being at the park at the same time. It
was a red van, I believe. So it's clear to
me like it is to you, that this child has
been taken and now we learn the entire narrative is changing.
The witnesses who claim they see a Hispanic man with
acne scars on his face lure Dulce into a reddish
(07:49):
color van or minivan. Now there's a whole different story emerging.
Climb stories with Nancy Grace. The police have now issued
(08:10):
an amber alert. They say they have reason to believe
that she was abducted. These are the last images of
Luce Madia before as she vanished. She wore a yellow
shirt with a Koala bear on the front, black and
white pants, and white sandals. Police also have the description
of the man who is believed to have abducted her
from the bridget In City Park. They say he is
(08:30):
light skinned, about five six to five eight, a thin billed,
no facial hair, acne on his face, wearing orange sneakers,
possibly Nike, red pants, and a black shirt. Police say
this mystery man led Luce from the playground to a
red van with a sliding door and tinted windows. She
was seated in the back by that man and then
(08:50):
he drove off around four twenty. That would be just
minutes after her mother last saw her. You were hearing
ABC Action News reporter Jeanette Ray. Yes, but white a minute.
They narrative as now drastically changing. Take a listen to this.
You didn't see anyone else around there that she could
p possibly have went with. No, not no that I
(09:15):
know because we saw one. There's just some other people
that they're here that said that they saw her running
running through through some houses in the back. And they
said that they saw two firs. They saw two men
they all black guy and they saw Mexican man with
two kids. They who's saying that they saw them? But
(09:36):
there's people here in the basketball courts that they saw her,
they saw her listings. They're saying that there's people they're
at the basketball court that they saw her running through
some houses with two black males. She light skin, Spanish?
What color top does she have on? Um? I don't remember. Okay,
(10:00):
are you at the basketball court? Yes, I'm right here
right now. She's that's the firm. She says that she's
at the basketball court. And do you have your son
with you? Or is your son? No, I have my
son with me. They said. Um. He was crying on
the sounds. He was just standing their crimes. He was
(10:20):
standing their crimes. Okay, So which is it? Is it
a Hispanic male with acne scars on his face, short
mail getting her into a red, a reddish colored van
or a minivan? Or is it a black male with
a Hispanic man with two kids? Or is it two
black males running with Dulcie? Listen to this. He said
(10:46):
that the black males took his ice cream. No, they
threw it in the floor. They took his ice cream
and throw it on the floor, and then they left
with your daughter, probably because I didn't saw it when
we came in and looked for her. We were looking
everywhere for her, was at the basketball court with her daughter.
(11:08):
That there was two black mails that took her son's
ice cream and threw it on the ground and left
with her daughter. Okay, well we have the officers, are
you on, Mayor aikin Um? I already have an officer here. Okay,
all right, well speak with the police, may I'm okay, Okay,
(11:32):
which one is it? Did sheer On McCallum, director of
the Cold Case Research Institute. I am not saying the
mom is involved in this. Let's just be clear about that.
But do you remember when Susan Smith insisted it was
an African American male. I was still in the courtroom
at that time, and I was trying to case alone,
(11:54):
but I think I was being threatened with the contempt
of court again. And my friend, who is now a judge,
Herman Sloan, came into the courtroom with a stack of
appellot books to try to save me. God bless him.
And somebody showed me the sketch of who allegedly took
Susan Smith's children, and I said, Herman, where were you?
(12:17):
It looked just like herman. So he died laughing. I'm like, hey, hey,
don't laugh too much, Herman. So now we hear just
is this muddle of confusion. We've got a Hispanic man
with acne that lures her into a reddish colored van
or minivan. Now we've got a Hispanic mail and an
African American mail. Now I've got two African But remember
(12:39):
before we blame this all on the mom. She's relaying
what people on the basketball court are telling her. It
is my understanding, Cheryl, she reay because she didn't see it.
So here's the issue. This is why people are concerned,
and this is why law enforcement is, you know, running
down every lead in every avenue, because she starts looking
(13:01):
for her daughters, supposedly for ten or fifteen minutes. When
she can't find her, she doesn't call the police, Nancy.
She calls her brother. After another thirty or forty minutes,
then they called the police. So now an hour has
passed with this child, Missy. There's not a mama that's
(13:23):
gonna tell you that would ever happen. We've all heard
your story when you couldn't find John David and Target
for thirty seconds and you wanted the whole place lockdown,
so an hour and you didn't see it, and your
best witness is a crying three year old. We have
flagn all over creation that you've got to verify. She's
(13:46):
claiming now again, when she calls nine one one, she's
not begging for help. She's not demanded that they hurry,
she's not demanded that they find her. And she never
says it's some man. She says somebody, someone, not even
a gender. So there's lots of concerns here for me.
Well quote, somebody probably took her. Okay, I understand John Cardillo,
(14:10):
former NYPD is chopping at the bit jump in, John, Yeah,
I don't believe in where this mother says, So I'm
gonna come out and say she needs to be the
primary suspect right now. If you if you go back
to be cases, the well known case of the child
abduction and many of the men did terribly go back
to the Polyclass case many years ago. If you look
at the fact pattern of that case and the evidence,
(14:32):
her dad mark class, and her mom remembered minute details.
They could have told you which way her bangs were
hanging that morning, to the right or to the left,
the pattern polyester to cotton, composition of her clothing. It
defies all reason. The mom doesn't know what color pants,
Oh maybe flowered, maybe black and white. I don't remember
(14:54):
what color shirt. I don't really know where they were.
They threw my son's ice cream on the floor. I've
not heard a less believable story from an alleged complaining victim.
And I work these specific cases quite a bit with
the National Center for Missing and Exploded Children. Read a
lot of nine one one transcripts. Nancy, if I were
(15:16):
the investigator here, the mom would be my primary primary suspect.
Nothing about this fact pattern or the timeline makes any
sense whatsoever. We'll take a listen to what ABC six
Philadelphia reporter John Rawlins says. The plight of the missing
girl is on people's minds a lot, really, and our
churches constantly talk about him, prayingport that safety for the
(15:38):
little girl's messed up. Man, Like you gotta look at
the prospective, like if it was hit child, how would
you fail? People were boggled by this, you know what
I mean. It's it's mind blowing the fact that he
had a mother and two little kids and where did
she go. Officials again are asking people with cell phone
images from the park at the time of the abduction
to upload those images to the FBI the hope a video,
(16:02):
say an athletic event, might include someone or something in
the background that could aid investigators. The FBI used such
uploads investigating a missing child in North Carolina in twenty
eighteen and the Boston bomber case in twenty thirteen. So
with that in mind again, authorities are urging anyone who
might have video from here in the park in Bridgeton
(16:22):
between three and six pm on Monday, September sixteenth, that's
the time period where the little girl dell Say went missing,
to please upload that video if you can crime stories
(16:44):
with Nancy Grace. Nothing is one hundred certainty until we
find us. Despite limited answers, we are still learning new
information about the moments after duels. Say and her family
stopped for ice cream on that warm Monday. She and
her three year old brother Rando the swings. They were unsupervised,
(17:05):
and in less than ten minutes, no one emergency. Um,
I can't find my daughter. Okay, what was the worst
any seener we moved here at the fourteen People said
that somebody probably somebody's from Bridgeton City Park. This nine
one one call rang into police from the girl's mother. No,
(17:25):
Emma dn't see anyone else around there that she could
possibly have went with. This are black guy and this
Mexican man, and police later learned only one man took Dulsay,
not two. That's one of the reasons why there was
a delay in the Amber alert, because I'm sure that's
going to be one of your questions is that we
(17:47):
have to vet that information. We have to verify that
information through interview, interviewing the witness by law enforcement. Also
at the center of that Amber alert was a red
van whose driver has yet to be identified. I am
not wed to the red vehicle. The witness that gave
us that information is a child of tender years. I
(18:09):
will not discount it. I will not ask the public
to disregard it. Wow, you are hearing the very latest,
including NBC ten reporters Sydney Long. Guys. Where is Dulce.
I'm looking at a picture right now of her and
something that John Cardillo, former NYPD said has really struck
a nerve. Alexis ures Chuck, I can tell you right
(18:32):
now what the twins have on. It was a special
day at school today and they're having all day games
to celebrate a Saint. Okay, and he John David has
on black Champion shorts that come down to about his knees.
(18:52):
He has on red Adidas shoes, and he's got on
black socks. It's a fashion felony, I know this. And
he's got a T shirt that the school gave him.
Lucy has got on black Nike shorts with white trim
that she wore in her volleyball as her volleyball suit.
She's got the same T shirt. Her hair is parted
(19:15):
in the middle, she has on no socks, and she
has on white tennis shoes. Not a major brand, but
with red and white stripe down the side going vertically.
John David's hair is not parted in any particular way.
I suggested to him in the car that he parted
left to right. That didn't happen. He took it and
(19:37):
combed it straight down, straight down. It's not a good look,
but that's what he does. Okay, I can tell you exactly.
I won't go into it because they may hear this
one day, Bimbares. I even know what underwear they had
on because I laid it out for him last night.
All right, Okay, hers are purple and his are blue.
There I said it, So I'm concerned this mom. Even
(20:00):
I know what Dulcie was wearing. Shed I'm looking away.
I'm not even looking at a picture Jackie. Yes, yes, Now,
she had on long black and white checked tights. They
may be a thin cotton or on some kind of nylon.
She had on a short sleeve yellow shirt that came down,
you know, mid thigh, a little higher than mid thigh,
(20:22):
and it has a white panda or koala bear on
the front. And she looks like she has on socks.
I can't totally tell that, but she has on little heels,
like little girl heels, and they look to be of
a light color, and her hair is partially pulled back.
That's what I recall without looking. Yeah, okay, that's right.
(20:42):
And she's precious. And and here's another thing. There's a
photo of her at crime online dot com wearing this outfit.
Because you keep hearing about an ice cream just before
she goes missing, they were at a gas station, a
Snowco gas station, and that's where they got ice creams
hers coconut. Now that concerns me that the mom didn't
(21:03):
know those details. Explain Alexis, Well, the mom had to
me some very panicked and she couldn't remember it. You're
exactly right. She when the police officer asked her that nine.
When one operator said what was she wearing, she says,
I don't remember. She can't remember anything. And she is
telling her though. She says to the operator, a black
man and a Mexican man are the two men that
(21:24):
people around here are saying may have taken her. The
operator then there, you know, it's a frantic situation, talks
over her. They talk over each other, then says it
as two black men. Then the story changes to it's
one Hispanic man and he has acne scars on his face.
So it went from two men, no idea, and then this,
(21:45):
but you know the little boy, her little brother, who's
only three years old. When it first happened, he was
pointing towards buildings, say, you know, pointing that's where she went.
That's where she went. Then the story changes too, she
got in the van and went away when they talked
to some older people. So there are a lot of
conflicting stories on this, but you're right the mom did
not know what her little girl was wearing. Cheryl McCollum,
(22:05):
have you made sense out of the various stories? Me?
I's the one thing that concerns me is when mom
says the little boy's ice cream fell on the floor,
she repeats the floor. They were there, They were outside,
It should have been grounds. So this leads me to
think was there in situation with the ice cream that
fell on the floorboard of the car or the floor
(22:25):
inside their house? It sounds like they were inside, not outside.
That concerns me. Again, everything that comes out of this
woman's mouth. I want to believe her, I can't. She's
not given me any reason to believe her. You don't
know what she's wearing. You never use her name, you
never ask for help, You part far away. Our best
(22:47):
witness is a crime three year old and some child
that describes somebody that even the police don't believe that
she was there. The video of her getting ice cream
is the last time we have her own film. Did
nobody else at the park took a picture as a video?
Nobody own a camera or you know, a surveillance camera. Hazard,
(23:10):
They can't verify she was ever in that. John Cardillo
from an NYPD sounds like you and Cheryl McCollum in
the same boat. Yeah. Absolutely, That's one of my issues
as well, Nancy. I'm not sure the child was ever
in the park because we live in a surveillance state
right now. I mean, I've got ring doorbells on my
front door, the front gate. Go one on the front
gate to my house. I've gone on the front door
(23:31):
to my house behind the gate, and then I've got
on my garages in the back of my house. I've
got one there as well, And I would say eighty
percent of my neighbors have that ring doorbell or another
brand of video doorbell. I mean, you really can't go
anywhere today without some surveillance camera capturing something. But again,
like Cheryl, I see no evidence that the child ever
(23:52):
made it to the park. That's my main concern. And
what do we really have with the mom's description. Well,
maybe these people exist, maybe they don't, But we have
right now perfectly legal behavior by other individuals. Maybe there
was a black and hispanic man walking through the park.
That's legal behavior. There was a red van park down
the street, that's legal behavior. So in and of itself,
(24:12):
sure the police have to run those leads down. But
even the witnesses, and I use that term loosely, aren't
alleging even criminal behavior by other people that may have
been in the park, just the mere fact that they
have to be eliminated because they may or may not
have been there. But again, I have suspicions that the
kid ever made it to the park itself. To Kassley Murphy,
North Carolina family lawyer, way in Nancy, there's an eight
(24:34):
year old that was apparently with this mother, and I
have not heard anything about what this eight year old
is saying and whether they were actually in the parking lots,
whether the kids were with them, But it is concerning
to me that nothing, absolutely nothing has come from this
mother that's been helpful. You are analyzing this in a
(24:54):
completely different vein. I'm just wondering, are we attacking the mom?
We need to attack somebody, and we don't know which
way to go with it or our Cheryl McCollum and
John Cardillo are absolutely righten crime stories with Nancy Grace.
(25:25):
Additional video of Dulce alivez released by her mother via
a family friend, the playful five year old mugging to
a cell phone camera, apparently just days before her abduction.
Authorities not releasing any official information today. Earlier this week,
the FBI had been working on a face to face
meeting with Dulce's father, who lives in Mexico. It's not
(25:45):
clear if that meetup has taken place. This afternoon, Dulce's
maternal grandmother was putting up more missing posters near her
home in Bridgeton. Dulce was last seen by her mom
at this Bridgeton playground September sixteenth, at this nearby zoo. Today,
people some with your kids and grandkids, talked about the
now days long search. I just think it gets a
(26:07):
little more tragic the longer goes. You know, it's just
pretty sad. Really, this mother told us she thinks authorities
and maybe some of the little girl's own family knows
more than it's being said publicly. She says she follows
the story via social media every day. I'll keep posted
on all the news channels. Everybody that's posting something. I
(26:29):
try to cheap updates. I want to know where she is.
I want to know. I want to know where she
is too. You were just hearing ABC six Philadelphia reporter
John rawlins everyone fixated on the search for Dulce Alavez,
a five year old girl who goes missing, apparently from
a local park. The Bridgeton part. The reward for information
(26:49):
about this little New Jersey girl who vanishes has now
climbed to fifty two thousand dollars and a Facebook post
in the last hours in New Jersey. State police say
it the police who don't make half of what they
should make for what they do. They are contributing ten
(27:10):
thousand dollars to the reward as the search goes on,
and in addition to that from the state police, the
Philadelphia Lodge Number five Fraternal Order Police more police donating
five thousand dollars. Two other donations for a thousand dollars
were added to the reward. Now we're learning this from
the Bridge to Police department. What happened to Dulcie Police
(27:33):
Chief Michael Gamieri Sor says that investigators have gathered a
substantial amount of information, but still no Dulce. Now we've
also heard that police believe the child is still alive.
Why John Cardillo, former NYPD, why would they say that
they might be approaching this now as a custodio interference case.
(27:56):
The FBI wants to meet with the dad in Mexico,
so they might possibly have of it is that members
of the paternal family or a member of the paternal
family might have just taken the little girls with them.
And if that's the case, then she's not in danger.
This might become a criminal slash civil situation. Can write
a custody case and it would still be a criminal
(28:17):
abduction in most places. But that I mean, let's hope
that's the case, because then her safety isn't in question.
Then it just becomes a legal issue. But that's my suspicion.
With the with being released in limited fashion. Right now,
we'll take a listen to what ABC six Philadelphia reporter
John Rollins says, well, the investigation continues to grind on here,
and the authorities make it a point that it is
(28:39):
still a wide open investigation. Pretty much nothing is off
the table at this time. We were told the FBI
has spoken by phone with the little girl's father. He
lives in Mexico. The hope is at some point soon
they will be able to have a face to face
talk with him to try to see if he can
shed any light on what happened to the little girl.
Authorities say they continue to operate under the premise that
(29:02):
the little girls seen here getting ice cream, Dulse Alivez
is still alive. They say they will continue to treat
her disappearance as a missing person until evidence indicates otherwise.
For more than a week, a small army of investigators
have searched the Bridgeton City Park where Dulce was last seen.
Others not seen. Are in the process of collecting terabytes
of data from cell phone communications, along with video from
(29:24):
multiple cameras, including those on school buses and police vehicles.
The Prosecutor's office said video of a red vehicle recently
broadcast had been investigated and determined not involved in the abduction.
You know, I'm looking at news alerts as late as
just yesterday and they're still talking about the red van
and describing the Hispanic mail with black hair and acne scars.
(29:47):
I just it's so much information as being disseminated. Alexis
terres check. How we now learn they've ruled out the
red minivan or is it still a possibility. While the
investigators have said that they found a they researched it,
they investigated it, and there's this one band that was
ruled out, but that is still out there. And what
they said from the very beginning was that what the
(30:10):
authorities said it was a tender age person. So it's
obviously the little boy, the little brother who's just three
years old, and you know, a three year old red
blue green. They know their colors, but under questioning, they
might not be able to get it said correctly. So
this was something that I think that they were very
hesitant to say from the very beginning. There's never been
a license played or anything identified with that, so they
(30:34):
have pretty much ruled this out. I know they looked
at over five hundred reddish tinted vehicles. Cheryl McCollum nathy.
They've checked every red vehicle, not just vans. They have
searched by foot, by boats, they used infrared technology on
a helicopter. They've used dive teams, but sonar canines they
(30:54):
brought in the FBI. They have done everything possible to
find this child. And again this point for me and
this investigation, Mama needs to take a polygraph. Okay to you,
Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer. The dad is in Mexico,
all right, and police are not going down there. That
(31:15):
tells me they don't believe the dad's involved. He's not involved.
I mean, they have him on like a bust the
video phone, and they know he's in Mexico, and I
can guarantee he's probably not got connections to be able
to transport this child. Take a listen to ABC Action.
He's reporter Maggie Kent. Now, state and local police are
(31:37):
joined by the FBI Child Abduction Division. As the search continues,
so does a criminal investigation. If the child wandered away,
time is of the essence. Obviously, If there's something foul
play amiss, time is also of the essence. The professional
search crews are utilizing every tool available in the air,
(31:58):
on the ground, and underwater, and strangers are stepping into help.
I thought I'd come down and just walk and look
and see what I could do. But I could see
this as a difficult search. I'm very concerned about this
little girl, and I pray to God that she's found shortly.
We just got an update from police lesson in an
hour ago, who say they have to use canines to
(32:20):
search with this little girl's mother's car, which is still
parked in this parking lot right near the playground where
she went missing. They've also searched the family home. The family,
they say, has been more than cooperative. Although the FBI
Child Abduction Unit is here, there are no clues to
indicate that Dulce was abducted. Did you hear that? Did
(32:42):
you hear that? John Cardillo from her NYPD no clues
to suggest she was abducted. What about what all the
witnesses are saying, Well, you only don't have any credible witnesses,
right I man, we've been saying, And you've got little kids,
You've got the mom who is suspected as diagramming with
Cheryl has said mom needs to take a polygraph, but
I would look at dad's family. Let's face it, howeverus
(33:04):
lies it. This is not the most attentive nurturing mother. Okay,
I think we've established that. No matter how this cake
shakes out. I mean, you're ninety yards it was the
thirty yards away. I don't let my dog get thirty
yards away if I walk them off Policiana Park. You
don't let your little adorable five year old get ninety
feet away. I mean, that's just ridiculous. And so maybe
(33:25):
the dad's family, there might be an aunt, there might
be a grandmother, there might be an uncle who saw
signs of neglect. Now we don't know that. But my
point is we have no evidence in this case. There's nothing,
no evidence of abduction, not a bow and her hair
left on the ground, nothing. So the police are definitely
definitely looking at the mom. But at the same time,
(33:48):
they know the dad was in Mexico. Sure we can
rule him out, but now they're looking at this he
a family here was we're Child and Family Services ever
called to this home. That's gonna be a big indicator
if we get that data point we find out that
they were. I could have been a family friend, it
could have been anybody for any reason. But I do,
just in my gut, I do feel the police are
(34:09):
on the right track when they say they feel she's
still alive. I do as well. Karen Stark psychologists joining
us out of Manhattan. You can find her at Karen
Stark dot com. Karen, why do you believe people are
attacking the mom? It's because we don't know where else
to turn. Well, that may be part of it, Nancy,
but there's also the fact that it took so long
to get in touch with the authorities. I mean, I
(34:32):
think that the story which you've told about John David
is very indicative of what a parent would do. I
can't imagine a mom having this child disappear she didn't
remember what she was wearing, but not getting in touch
with the police immediately when her child isn't there, calling
her brother. That does not ring true to me. I
(34:55):
don't understand it. Well, it's ters Radar online dot com
Investigate reporter. What more do you know? I want to
tell y'all that the other day I was at a
corn maize. We have huge pumpkin hatches out here in California,
and my little boy, who's five and his best friend, Mackenzie.
They ran into the corn maize together. The other mom
and I followed. We could not find them. We were
(35:17):
calling their names, calling, calling, calling, We went deeper into
the corn maize. The other mom said, I'm going to
turn around and I'm going to go to the front.
She went back to the front. They were both there crying.
We had myself, that was probably a good fifteen minutes
that we were searching for them inside the corn mais
thinking they were there, and they were outside, and there
were police crawling all over this place. So the kids
(35:38):
would have been fine, but it was a little while before,
you know, And if we hadn't found them, we then
would have called. But I don't think this is such
a long time for this mom to not have called
the police. You search, you call your family, you say,
oh my gosh, I can't find her. I could be
wrong on this. I know we all have good instincts,
but I do not see this as the mom having
done this. And I will take responsibility if I'm wrong.
(36:00):
But I think this is somebody who was searching, searching, searching.
Called her brother. He hardly said called the police. She
called the police, and she is in a panic, looking
for her little daughter. We wait as the search goes
on for a five year old Dulcie Maria Alavaz. Tipline
eight five six four five one zero zero three three
eight five six four five one zero zero three three
(36:23):
eight hundred call FBI. Nancy Grace crib Story, signing off
goodbye friend
Host
Nancy Grace
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