November 21, 2022 • 39 mins
Four University of Idaho friends are found murdered in an off-campus home. Their killer still walks free.
Madison Mogen, 21; Kaylee Goncalves, 21; Ethan Chapin. 20; and Xana Kernodle, 20, were found stabbed to death in the rented off-campus home the three women shared with two other women. They were killed sometime between 3 a.m. and 5 a.m. on November 13.
The Moscow Police Department has received more than 646 tips, conducted over 90 interviews, and are now working with state police, state troopers, the FBI, and multiple behavior and forensics experts to track down the killer.
Investigators have not located a murder weapon and continue to reiterate that the surviving roommates are not believed to have been involved in the murders. Moscow Police Captain Roger Lanier has not mentioned if their investigation has revealed any possible suspects.
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Dale Carson - High Profile Attorney, Former FBI Agent, Former Police Officer, Author: Arrest-Proof Yourself, DaleCarsonLaw.com
- Dr. Jorey Krawczyn - Psychologist, Adjunct Faculty with Saint Leo University; Research Consultant with Blue Wall Institute, Author: Operation S.O.S., bw-institute.com
- Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, Blood Beneath My Feet, Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan"
- Audrey Conklin - Reporter, Fox News Digital, Twitter: @audpants
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Four beautiful young college students massacred, slaughtered, some sleeping in
their beds. We're talking about the slaughter University of Idaho students.
The case unsolved, the murder weapon not found, the killer
(00:27):
on the loose. I mean, see Grace, this is crime Stories.
Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation
and Serious X one eleven. First of all, take a
listen to our friends at the Today Show. The most
pressing facts are still a mystery, no murder weapon, no motive,
not even a suspect description. Devastating for the families of
Xana kernodle Ethan Chapin, Mattie Mogan, and Keiley Gonzalvis, prying
(00:50):
for justice in their grief. Turn yourself in. You owe
it to these mothers of these children, these fathers, families.
You're wrong yourself in. And so far, the police say
that they've received about five hundred tips, and they're asking
for even more tips from the public, from anybody that
knows where these victims were the night before they were killed.
(01:14):
But right now, the biggest lead seems to be that
large fixed blade weapon, possibly a combat night. Let me
introduce to you an all star panel to makes sense
of what we know right now, But first I want
to go to Audrey Conklin, investigative reporter with Fox and
News Digital. Audrey, thank you for being with us. This
of course went down on the edges of the University
(01:38):
of Idaho along Greek Row at off campus housing. What
do we know about the area. We know that everything
is very close by. All of the places where each
of the four student victims were the night before the
murders and the early morning one into are all very
(02:01):
close together. You could even walk to each of the places.
I don't think they did, because at least two of
them were driven home by a private party. But they're
all very quick together. You know that's significant. That puts
things in an entirely different light. Now, Jose's got Morgan
with me, Professor Forensics Jacksonville State University and author of
(02:21):
Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon Strava hit series Body
Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. If most people walk to
where they are going, Joe Scott that tells me to
kill are probably walked there too. Yeah. And you know
when you look at this place, Nancy, it's got very
specific points of access. There's a big bank of windows
(02:44):
in the back of this house on essentially a second level.
It's kind of built into the side of a hill.
Looks like a split level. It does, and you can
assess the place from a long ways away but still
have cover. I think that's significant, and you could only
do that on foot. You know, that's interesting that we're
I just wonder sometimes, Joe Scott, if cops do the
(03:04):
same thing I did as a prosecutor, like we're doing
right now, sitting around and discussing and talking about possibilities. Again,
when you look at this house, I'm looking at it
right now, it looks like a split level. There is
what would you say, huge timbers holding up what appears
(03:28):
to be a wraparound patio or a little porch that
goes around the back, which would be very easy to
get on. When you look at it, I'm looking at
the sliding glass doors. The father of one of the
victims stated that, And it's very apparent that there are
(03:48):
two points of entry. One is the front door, which
is only entered with a code. Got to know the
code to get in, a code like you would see
on an to a unit. You know what I mean,
Joe Scott, Where you punched in one two, three, four,
and the door will open. The other point of access
would be that sliding glass door, which for time immemorial
(04:12):
has been a sweet spot for burglars. They're really easy
to get into and a lot of people leave them
a lot because they're painting the rear end a lock.
Yeah they are, and sometimes, you know, particularly college kids,
you'll forget to do stuff like that. But can I
draw your attention back to that door that has the keypad,
if FoST can find a static picture that just that
(04:34):
standalone static photo. And if you look to the left,
there is a road, a tiny road that runs up
the hill. Now, yesterday they had the police out there
taking a look at tire tracks or burn marks essentially
on the road. Do you know there's a tree line
right there. You can park adjacent to that and walk
(04:54):
through the tree line and get access to that top level.
So it will provide cover to get to that second
floor that you're talking about that kind of has the balcony,
the decking area. It's kind of built into the ground.
It's real interesting the way the whole thing's construction said.
Burn marks, What do you mean by that, Well, it
looks like someone you can kind of see the skid
marks in the road, like somebody has burned rubber in
(05:16):
that area, scratched off. Yeah, they have, And I really
wonder if they went out there and took rubber samples
as well off of those tracks that were left behind.
But here's the problem. There is absolutely no control of
the crime scene. When they got the call, everybody was
looking around, and Joe, you would know this. It's really
hard to keep people, particularly people of rank, from going
(05:40):
up and looking and seeing the bodies and those sorts
of things, and so the crime scene has been contaminated
very beginning of this case. Guys, you're hearing Dale Carson,
high profile lawyer joining us out of Jacksonville, and I'm
just lawyer. This is why he's critical today. He's former FBI,
former lease officer and author. You can find him at
(06:02):
del Carson Law dot com, Audrey Joe Scott, Dell Carson
and also with us someone we lean on a lot,
doctor Jorry Cross, and psychologists joining us faculty Saint Leo University,
research consultant and author of Operation SSS. Guys, please jump
in whenever you have a thought like Dell just did,
(06:25):
and like Joe Scott brought up those rubber marks where
somebody scratched off near the home. Is that connected? Don't know?
Half must investigate. What are they doing right now? And
what have we learned? I want you to take a
listen to the county coroner, Kathy Mabbott. Most of them
had just like one that was so lethal stabund Yes,
(06:49):
can you describe what that one might have been? Fatal
ones were to the chess area or the upper body area?
Were there? And I only ask this because it sometimes
determines what kind of a crime. This was a crime
of passion, a random crime, fight, a struggle? Was there
were any of them slashed? Were any of their next cut?
(07:10):
Or were these all puncture ones? Well it was a
pretty large nine, so it's really hard to call them
puncture wounds. And they were definitely stabbings. And I mean
it has to be somebody that's pretty angry in order
to stab. For people to hearing our friends over at
News Nation just got morgan. I got a problem. Okay,
(07:33):
I got a lot of problems, but one of them
is that Kathy Mabbett, who I'm sure is a fine person,
is a registered nurse right for it, who has a
degree a BS and political science and a law degree
from the University of Idaho that she got in I
(07:56):
believe two thousand and six could have been two thousand
and one. Did you hear me? A registered nurse with
a law degree and a degree in political science. All
those things, each of themselves, are spectacular feats. Okay, really
hard to do all that, But we need a trained
(08:20):
medical examiner to look at the wounds, and also not
to disseminate information until it has been determined by a
medical doctor, and possibly not even then do I have
to say Delphi. Look, I want to know the information
(08:42):
just like everybody else, but this is not the time
to be releasing information about the wounds of the victims.
Because if the killer is watching TV, what's he going
to do right now? He's going to take that fixed
blade knife and get rid of it, is going to
clean it and get rid of it because so much
(09:04):
information is being leaked and information critical to the case,
and there's no central point of control where it. This
is what really struck me about her interview, and she
had given one prior to the one that we just
listened to, is that she made a statement before the
police ever made a statement. I mean an open statement
where they gave an interview no offense, but shut your piehole, lady,
(09:27):
go ahead, No, yeah, and so that's that's a bit different.
And I think that a lot of this goes and
I'm not disparaging the jurisdiction up there. I think a
lot of this goes to a lack of a lack
of experience that they that they might have would deal
with mass fatalities like this. And something you know, people
don't think this can happen in your town is and
(09:49):
it does. It truly does. Evidence here and it all
everything demonstrates that you have to be on the same
sheet of music, have had a point of control for
all information it's coming in, and it's called a command center.
You're right, Del Carson. One of the noticeable things is
when you do crime scenes like this, you've got to
cover everything to prevent the environment from despoiling it. I
(10:12):
haven't seen one covered area, particularly in the back of
the property, where it's likely this individual stood and surveyed
the house from perhaps a protected period of time. And
that's why the assaults were on the upper floor. Time
(10:42):
stories with Nancy Grace, the assaults are on two floors.
We know that there were two bedrooms on each floor.
We know that two of the victims are on the
second floor, two of the victims are on the third floor,
and the other two roommates to survive we're on the
first floor, which could be considered you know, look at it,
(11:05):
Joe Scott, an above ground basement. It's a split level house.
You've got the entry point there on the bottom with
the key code. Then the back kind of is built
into the side of a little bill. You got to
look at this place to get it. So at first
I thought, wow, the two surviving roommates are on the
(11:27):
bottom floor, so the port patch of walk up three floors.
He could have very well entered through that sliding glass door,
which would have put him at an upper level. Yes, no,
Joe Scott, Yes, you're absolutely right. I think he came
into the sliding glass door. The more I'm reasoning it through,
look at the house guarantee you came through that sliding
glass store, although a lot of people seemingly had the
(11:50):
code to that front door. Guys, take a listen now
to our cut forty our friensic k r E and
new details emerging. New details are emerging in the stabbing depths,
so for you Unversity of Idaho Students. Tonight, the Layta
County Corner says the four students were likely asleep, some
had defensive wounds in each victim was stabbed multiple times.
Authorities found no sign of sexual assault. Moscow Police say
(12:12):
at this point in the investigation, they do not believe
the two surviving roommates or the man seen standing near
a local food truck were involved in the murders. Police
also address rumors swirling online claiming the victims were gagged
and tied, saying those are not accurate and the identity
of the nine one one caller has not been released. Okay,
we do know, Audrey Conklin joining us I investigated. Reporter
(12:34):
with Fox News Digital, Audrey, we are learning more about
the person that call on nine one one. Now correct
me if I'm wrong, Auge, but I think that one
of the roommates that survived. To surviving roommate tried to
wake up one of the victims. The victim wouldn't wake up.
The surviving roommate calls a friend says, hey, I think
(12:57):
she's passed out. He or she is passed out. They
came over. They realized she's not passed out, she's dead.
They call nine one one, police get there and they
find the other three vic can that's my understanding. What
do you know, Audrey, I haven't heard about one of
(13:17):
the roommates trying to wake up one of the victims.
But what I can see happening, and this is speculative,
but maybe the roommates, who we now know lived on
the first floor of the house boma or heard something
that frightened them, you know, that morning, maybe without seeing
the victims themselves, maybe they saw blood, Maybe they saw
(13:41):
or heard something that was, you know, not unusual in
that household, so they called friends over to check out
the situation. Those friends may have seen a victim in
their bed not moving, which I think would make the
unconscious person report makes sense. And they called police from
(14:01):
one of the roommate's phone. That's right, because one of
the surviving roommate's cell phone was used to call nine
one one, but apparently it was not the surviving roommate.
Your construction of effects makes perfect sense, Audrey. Guys, take
a listen to our friend Kyle Simchek. Detectives say they've
(14:22):
received nearly five hundred tips, which are being processed, investigated,
and cleared. Thirty eight people who may have information about
the murders have been interviewed. The whereabouts of the killer
and the knife used are still unknown. Detectives sees the
contents of three dumpsters on King Road to look for evidence.
Police have also gone to local businesses to see if
anyone recently purchased a fixed blade knife. Anyone who saw
(14:44):
something suspicious, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information
about the murders is asked to call the Moscow Police Department.
Jessica Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics Jacksonviall State University. A
fixed blade lot knife as opposed to france as a switchblade.
It's not fixed, immovable in the hilt, or a pen
knife that folds out. A fixed blade knife is certainly
(15:09):
going to be the weapon because it's more sturdy, and
we know that these are very deep stab wounds. Explain, Yeah,
they're very very robust. I would imagine in their appearance
that means that the width of the knife, and you
know it had been mentioned earlier they use the term
puncture one. That's not a puncture one. This is going
(15:31):
to be a big open wound where the knife is
introduced into the body specifically, and I think one of
the reasons they're drawing this conclusion. I remember they keep
saying military style. I think that perhaps what happened there
is a hilt guard. That's that little bar that goes
across the handle that separates the blade from the handle
horizontally across the knife. Yeah, and so I think, and
(15:56):
most military style knives have those. We can see actually
a bruise called a hilt bruise lots of times when
this is driven into the body. That might be where
they're drawing that conclusion from. They've used the term kbar,
which is generally associated with Marine Corps a combat knife.
I don't know that for a fact, but it had
that name has been thrown around. Our marines have used
(16:18):
that since World War Two. I've heard that too to
doctor joy Cross and joining US psychologists and faculty Saint
Leo University also author doctor joy question, think about it.
This is between three and four in the morning, and apparently, Jackie,
I read that one of the victims was making calls
(16:39):
up until two fifty eight. Two fifty eight, did you
see that? Did you see that, Audrey, that one of
the victims is on the phone at two fifty eight,
Yet police believe that she was on the phone right
before the murders are estimated to have happened. Yeah, how
is she asleep two minutes later? Very curious timing, but
(17:03):
that's got to have been established by phone records or
someone that spoke it could look at their phone and go, yeah,
it was two fifty eight. Also, we know that one
of the girls continually called an ex boyfriend Jack. They
shared custody of a dog. I guess is one way
to put it, And we may even maybe even reconciling
that said Jack has been ruled out by the family,
(17:26):
whether it's a floury of phone calls to the friend
Jack right before the murders. So the last calls at
two fifty eight, and they're placing the murders between three
and four a m. Two minutes later, Yet they say
the victims were in bed and likely asleep. To doctor
(17:46):
Jerry Crawsen joining us, the thinking of this perp to
go from floor to floor. If the murders were targeted,
why kill four? Wouldn't it likely be one of the
victims was targeted, Yes, it could be, but then the
(18:06):
others just become collateral like witnesses. But also you know,
with a personality a frenzy attack, you know, once they
start the killing, then it just you know, the deviancy,
it just produces that behavior to kill again. I'd be
real interested in knowing the sequence of who was killed
(18:28):
first or how the bodies were found. And you know,
I think you could pretty well determine if we knew that,
like who was killed, because Ethan the boy, the male,
seems like he would be one of the first to
be eliminated. He said that he was likely in the
same bedroom with a female, his girlfriend. Yeah, Ziah, so
(18:52):
let's think this through. Jell Carson just got Morgan jump in.
We're talking about this scenario, and it's really impossible to
determine based specifically on the bodies, which murder was first,
but other information could tell us that. But think about it.
The lights are out, you enter a house, you're going
(19:15):
to kill somebody. You have a specific target, and mind
you go into one room, it's not the target, but
you kill them anyway. And if you work it away
progressively and you can determine when you find the target,
the target's nighthing is going to be different. And one
of the things that you mentioned that's really peculiar to
me is that if someone calls and says somebody's unconscious
(19:36):
here that and they're dead. There's no way you can
stab somebody in the chest and really eviscerat them without
leaving a tremendous blood trail. So you don't call the
police and say, look, there's somebody unconscious, You say, there's
blood everywhere. Somebody's dead exactly. I'm drawn with that killings
were so instantaneous, which belies the argum I meant that
(20:00):
there are multiple sab woms. What about it, Joe Scott, Yeah,
I'm thinking there is an outside possibility that science could
have the answer here. And this is what I believe.
If there is, if they are careful in collecting their evidence,
the person who was the first to be attacked will
have the least amount of others DNA on them. And
(20:24):
what I mean by that is once that night, assuming
of course, that they're using only one instrument, once that
blade is introduced into that first person's body, they withdraw
that blade. Okay, they now move over to the next
person and then reintroduce that blade into the next victim's
body and so forth and so on. You have what's yeah,
(20:47):
you have what's referred to as co mingling of blood
and certainly biological material DNA. So the person, if they
work their trace evidence right at the scene, the person
that has the least the least amount of DNA from
someone else, there's a higher likelihood that person could be
the first victim. Nancy, guys, take a listen to our
(21:08):
cut forty three. This is Sarah Robinson along with family members.
He says, Zanna was in constant communication with her family
and nothing about that night seemed unusual. The door lost,
with the number of code every time you open it,
How you go back to the how you go around
(21:28):
the house and getting in the house because the number
of codes. So they either knew that or they just
kind of went around and founded and slid over. The
father struggling to understand how this could have happened. Why, Zannah,
we were just hanging out at home. Yeah, Sannah was
her boyfriend. The code on the front door, the sliding
(21:50):
glass door on the side of the building, affixed to
a little patio, a kind of a wrap around patio.
What's the point of entry? Because they're you will find fingerprints,
and I say absolutely you will because this type of
frenzied attack is not conducive to the mind of a
(22:10):
killer who would wear gloves and then conduct four frenzied attacks.
That is inconsistent. What do we know investigators are doing
right now? They are retracing the steps two of the
victims who are a sportspar and then a food truck.
Two of the victims had been to a fraternity party
(22:33):
at the Sigma Kai house and then came back to
the residents on King Road. Why because they are looking
for suspects. Take a listen to Amanda Rowley at KREM.
Investigators believe Madison and Kayley were at the Corner Club
on Saturday from ten at pm to one thirty am
Sunday morning. Then they were at the grub truck on
(22:56):
Main Street at one forty am five minutes later. The
maps says they returned to their home on King Road.
Investigators also believe Ethan and Xano were at a party
at Sigma Kai from eight to nine pm Saturday night,
then returned to the King Road home at one forty
five am on Sunday. The hope is that someone might
(23:16):
remember being at or near these locations around the same
time and potentially saw something suspicious or relevant to the investigation.
Police are asking those people to call the tipline number
or email that information. The tip line is two zero
eight eight eight three seven zero five four repeat two
(23:37):
zero eight eight eight three seven zero four Dale. Is
that you, Jeff Fana? Go ahead? Yeah, Yeah, that's that's
just a dead end street. Look, the individual who murdered
these folks was laying in wait, backed up on the hill,
came in through that sliding glass door and perpetrated the crimes.
(24:01):
He has no association with other people, and you're likely
to find that the individuals either living in the woods,
like individuals in prior cases that that are not part
of polite society. They're not part of our society, and
you can see them. They're living homeless. They're different than us,
(24:21):
and they feel alienated from us, and that's one of
the driving features that causes them to injure us, aside
from any other psychological problem. What do you make of that?
To you, dot Jory Crossing, I agree with it, and
I think this person is going to be like a
transient person with no real ties to that community. You know,
(24:41):
in college towns. You know, they can blend in really
easy with the students, you know, and the people that
go unnoticed, being anonymous basically, and then just like they
are saying, you know, if they get a fixation stalking
or see a target and then they're gone, They're in
(25:02):
and out. Okay, Joe Scott Morgan, how does that jive
with police series and this was a targeted attack? Well, yeah,
I think that there's a chance that this individual has
been watching for a while. Again, I go back to
this idea of the points of observation. If they have
been tracking these girls. Listen, it would have been the
perfect environment that night, if they had been watching them
(25:23):
on any level, watching them go to parties. They're walking around,
remember when we saw that image at the food truck.
They're kind of jovial, laugh and cutting up. They'd been
out partying that night, and they were perfect targets at
that moment time for somebody that was looking to strike.
And again, brutally cold at night, this person feels comfortable
(25:44):
moving around in that environment. You saw everybody was wearing hoodies,
jackets and all that sort of thing. They would have
to be comfortable in that environment walking around, so that
might go to the point that they are transient, that
they're not part of polite society. We are learning more
and more about the timeline. That's the first thing you
do is trying to establish a timeline. Take her. Listen
(26:05):
to our friend. Zerene Shaw, a sister of one of
the four college students found murdered at an off campus
house near the University of Idaho, revealing new clues. So
I was able to get a pretty good timeline on
Kaylee and Mattie the night of from about ten fifteen
until shortly before three am, Olivia Gonzalvez says she discovered
(26:28):
at least six calls from her sister Kaylee's phone between
two twenty six and two fifty two, made to a
boyfriend in the early morning of November thirteenth. Detectives now
saying these phone calls are a part of their investigation.
The phone calls are critical because we know that Gonzalves
was up, Zanna was up at two fifty two a m.
(26:55):
Let me think that through two fifty two am. It
was Kael, not Zana car Noodle. Kelly was up at
two fifty two am on the phone. Yet Augie Coughlind
they're starting the timeline of their murders at three am, right,
So police have said that between three am and four
(27:17):
am is when the murders occurred. So they could have
been asleep, but yeah, phone activity shows that they were
up and trying to contact people right before the murders occurs.
It's very creepy to doctor Jerry Crawsen to know that
one of the victims, Kelly, is on the phone at
(27:38):
two fifty two am and the timeline says the murders
at three am. Could someone have been watching and when
the lights are turned off they enter the home. They
could have already been in the home, okay, and waiting,
you know, fling down, like hearing a conversation on the phone. Okay,
(28:03):
let the phone get hung up. You know one thing
you mentioned earlier about the weapon, and they were looking
and checking at the stores to see somebody. I would
think this individual, this weapon is really important to them.
I don't think they just went out and bought it.
I think they've had it for a while. This has
been part of that identity, if you lack for a
(28:26):
better psychological term, well, it is actually an identity every
time that we go camping, when we run into other
campers a lot, and it's usually men will have huge
hunting knives and sheets attached to their belts the way
people will attach like an iPhone or some other instrument
(28:50):
or tool to their belts. These knives are attached to them,
so that does speak to their identity. Yeah, and you
know here in the oh everybody carries a knife. They
got those clip on it. I don't know about that
because I don't know a single soul that carries a
knife other than the Scout troop leader, the man, not
(29:11):
the woman. Okay, well, you guys go ahead and carrie
an if that's your business, take a listen now to
Captain Roger Lanier with a Moscow police on the morning
of November thirteenth, at eleven fifty eight am. Nine one
one call was On the evening of November twelfth, Kaylee
(29:32):
Gonsalvez and Madison Wigan were at a local bar and
were later at a food truck in downtown Moscow. They
arrived home at approximately one forty five am. On the
morning of November thirteenth. Ethan Chapin and Zana Carnodle were
at the Sigma Kai House before also arriving home at
(29:53):
approximately one forty five AM. Two surviving roommates were also
out in the community, and they returned home at approximately
one m and did not wake up until later that morning.
(30:21):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, right now, cops are
scouring the area for video surveillance. I'm talking about ring
doorbell cameras, stop light cameras, business surveillance video such as
at the corner bar where they were two of them
(30:43):
were that night at the food trucks where we spot
two of the victims at the food truck just before
their murders. Was that udal jump in. Look, they're gonna
find a sniper's hide up on the hill behind that house.
That's where their evidence is going to be. This person
has waited for them to come home. He didn't follow them.
(31:07):
He wasn't watching them and following behind him in a
car or on a BikeE He was waiting and that's
where the first investigation should have been conducted. Candidly. Now,
I taught serial killers for the Bureau for a number
of years. Those people had the patience of job. They
will wait and wait and wait until the opportunity is perfect.
(31:29):
From their perspective, what we've got to worry about, is
there's another pet that was killed and I handled a
case or was involved in a case involving that sort
of thing where the pets started going missing first, and
then there was a homicide that was directly connected to
the individual who was taking the pet hold on ag
Conklin joining us from Fox News Digital. Has a connection
(31:51):
been made in any way from a pet to the
quadruple murder. No connections have been made yet between any
kind of animal violence in the murders, but I'm sure
that something police are looking at. What about this theory, Audrey?
What about the theory that the purp came into the
home while everyone was gone? Every single person was out
(32:15):
of that home, All six were gone, the five roommates
and the boyfriend Ethan all gone. When they come home
and he's already in there and everybody starts settling down
to sleep. I wonder if it happened like that, or
Joe Scott did he enter after they were asleep through
(32:38):
that sliding class door? What do you think? You know?
First Blush, When I heard about this, I really had
thought that this guy was possibly laying in wait inside
the residence. I mean, he could be in there for
any reason, looking for food, looking for money, and looking
for something to steal, and then everybody starts coming home.
(32:58):
He may have thought they were hey, yeah, And you know,
it's like Dale was saying, is this is this individual
sole focus in life, perhaps his target. He can sit
there and he can sit there and wait and wait
because he's totally fixed on these individuals as targets or
maybe one of them that he's rode in on. And
it would not surprise me if they were to find
(33:18):
evidence within the house that he had been hiding somewhere
sequest or somewhere in that house and waiting for them
to come in. But we just we don't know. And
given the fact that that there was, it seems at
least that there may have been a lack of security
at the scene when processing. And look, you have to
say things are chaotic at the beginning with many times
(33:41):
like this. But it's it's troubling to me. I hope
they haven't missed something outside the house. The dog del
Carson is talking about high profile lawyer right at Jackson,
former fed with the FBI, A woman who lives near
the quadruple murder there in Idaho about three miles as
her little mini Australian shepherd had literally been filayed a
(34:06):
few weeks before the quadruple murder, making some people think
that the two are connected. Back to this, take a
listen to Chief James Fry, Detectives are looking to develop
any context content that would help us in this event.
Anyone who has observed any notable behavior, or has any
(34:29):
video surveillance, or can provide relevant information about these murders,
please call our tip line at two oh eight eight
eight three seven one eight zero, or you can email
the tip line at and that is a tip line
at CI dot Moscow dot id dot us and more
(34:53):
from Captain Roger Lanier. Listen. On the morning of November thirteenth,
at eleven fifty eight, nine one one call was placed
to the Witcom Despatch center reporting an unconscious person. The
call originated from inside the residence and was made from
the phone of one of the surviving roommates. Moscow Police
(35:17):
Department officers responded and located four victims, two on the
second floor and two on the third floor. We're getting
a little clarification regarding who made the nine one one call.
Take a listen again to Chief James Fry. Gotti shorts.
NBC News just following up on the nine one one call,
you said that you don't believe that's the killer. Can
(35:38):
you conclusively rule out the person that called nine one
one from inside the home as a suspect in this case?
Can you aueads just ask that one more time? Please? Yeah,
the person that was inside the home that called nine
one one, that was not one of the roommates, can
you conclusively rule that person out as a suspect at
this point, I don't think I said that it wasn't
(35:59):
one of the room. I said that it was used
with the roommate's phone. I believe somebody asked if that
wasn't the killer, and you say, no, no, that's correct.
Respond there was other friends that had arrived at the location.
So that goes back to what Audrey Coughlin from Fast
New Digital was telling us that one of the roommates
(36:23):
apparently couldn't wake up a victim. Maybe she just called
her through the door, I don't know, and then she
the surviving roommate, called friends over. The friends come over,
one of them uses roommates phone to call nine one one.
There's a lot that's been made about who called nine
one one. It's a friend of the surviving roommate and
(36:46):
they have been ruled out as suspects along with the
surviving roommates. Here's more from Captain Rogers. Lanier investigators have
determined to two areas of interest within the city and
have provided maps which are on our Facebook page and
on our website, and these are areas that they have
(37:09):
canvassed for additional surveillance video and tips, and have contacted
several residents in the areas. The areas are generally south
of Taylor Avenue to Paulus River Drive in west of
Highway ninety five. Detectives have also canvassed several other neighborhoods
(37:30):
looking for evidence, looking for additional surveillance video, and contacting
residents and speaking to them to see if they may
have heard or seen something. Dude, you just got Morgan.
I think that what the police need to be doing
right now. And I've got it narrowed down to four
or five things. One looking for the suspects and retracing.
(37:55):
That would include Corner Claw where gone Salvas went, then
the grub truck and of course a Sigma Kai house
to look at all the rain cams, the doorbell cams,
a surveillance video, the DNA. There's no way that this
scene could have played out the way it did without
(38:15):
fiber fingerprints, DNA hair and they're going to have to
use ancestral DNA lt Y because I believe that the
purp may not be in codis or aphis. They may
get a fingerprint or DNA at the scene, but then
I have anything to match it too, explain. Yeah, you know,
(38:37):
I got to tell you, I don't know that I
agree relative to fingerprints. I think that this person probably
has been an offender at some point in time, possible
if they can recover a late if they can recover
a latent print at that scene. And trust me, this
is an evidence rich environment. This place would have been
bathed in blood, Nancy. He's going to transfer a lot
(38:58):
of stuff, and he can total potentially have left bloody
fingerprints behind if he's not wearing clothes. And it's like
you said at the open, I don't know that this
guy is sophisticated enough to have shown up with gloves. No,
probably has a real, real desire to run his hands
over the surfaces, I would imagine, so he's gonna leave
(39:19):
something of himself behind. Absolutely, somewhere out there are bloody clothes,
bloody shoes. Yeah, one more thing I have to emphasize.
As feverish as this was, Nancy, there is a high
probability that this monster cut himself in these. He may
have left his DNA behind, commingled with the victim's DNA's word,
(39:40):
we wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace comes choice, signing
off goodbye friend.
Four beautiful young college students massacred, slaughtered, some sleeping in
their beds. We're talking about the slaughter University of Idaho students.
The case unsolved, the murder weapon not found, the killer
(00:27):
on the loose. I mean, see Grace, this is crime Stories.
Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation
and Serious X one eleven. First of all, take a
listen to our friends at the Today Show. The most
pressing facts are still a mystery, no murder weapon, no motive,
not even a suspect description. Devastating for the families of
Xana kernodle Ethan Chapin, Mattie Mogan, and Keiley Gonzalvis, prying
(00:50):
for justice in their grief. Turn yourself in. You owe
it to these mothers of these children, these fathers, families.
You're wrong yourself in. And so far, the police say
that they've received about five hundred tips, and they're asking
for even more tips from the public, from anybody that
knows where these victims were the night before they were killed.
(01:14):
But right now, the biggest lead seems to be that
large fixed blade weapon, possibly a combat night. Let me
introduce to you an all star panel to makes sense
of what we know right now, But first I want
to go to Audrey Conklin, investigative reporter with Fox and
News Digital. Audrey, thank you for being with us. This
of course went down on the edges of the University
(01:38):
of Idaho along Greek Row at off campus housing. What
do we know about the area. We know that everything
is very close by. All of the places where each
of the four student victims were the night before the
murders and the early morning one into are all very
(02:01):
close together. You could even walk to each of the places.
I don't think they did, because at least two of
them were driven home by a private party. But they're
all very quick together. You know that's significant. That puts
things in an entirely different light. Now, Jose's got Morgan
with me, Professor Forensics Jacksonville State University and author of
(02:21):
Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon Strava hit series Body
Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. If most people walk to
where they are going, Joe Scott that tells me to
kill are probably walked there too. Yeah. And you know
when you look at this place, Nancy, it's got very
specific points of access. There's a big bank of windows
(02:44):
in the back of this house on essentially a second level.
It's kind of built into the side of a hill.
Looks like a split level. It does, and you can
assess the place from a long ways away but still
have cover. I think that's significant, and you could only
do that on foot. You know, that's interesting that we're
I just wonder sometimes, Joe Scott, if cops do the
(03:04):
same thing I did as a prosecutor, like we're doing
right now, sitting around and discussing and talking about possibilities. Again,
when you look at this house, I'm looking at it
right now, it looks like a split level. There is
what would you say, huge timbers holding up what appears
(03:28):
to be a wraparound patio or a little porch that
goes around the back, which would be very easy to
get on. When you look at it, I'm looking at
the sliding glass doors. The father of one of the
victims stated that, And it's very apparent that there are
(03:48):
two points of entry. One is the front door, which
is only entered with a code. Got to know the
code to get in, a code like you would see
on an to a unit. You know what I mean,
Joe Scott, Where you punched in one two, three, four,
and the door will open. The other point of access
would be that sliding glass door, which for time immemorial
(04:12):
has been a sweet spot for burglars. They're really easy
to get into and a lot of people leave them
a lot because they're painting the rear end a lock.
Yeah they are, and sometimes, you know, particularly college kids,
you'll forget to do stuff like that. But can I
draw your attention back to that door that has the keypad,
if FoST can find a static picture that just that
(04:34):
standalone static photo. And if you look to the left,
there is a road, a tiny road that runs up
the hill. Now, yesterday they had the police out there
taking a look at tire tracks or burn marks essentially
on the road. Do you know there's a tree line
right there. You can park adjacent to that and walk
(04:54):
through the tree line and get access to that top level.
So it will provide cover to get to that second
floor that you're talking about that kind of has the balcony,
the decking area. It's kind of built into the ground.
It's real interesting the way the whole thing's construction said.
Burn marks, What do you mean by that, Well, it
looks like someone you can kind of see the skid
marks in the road, like somebody has burned rubber in
(05:16):
that area, scratched off. Yeah, they have, And I really
wonder if they went out there and took rubber samples
as well off of those tracks that were left behind.
But here's the problem. There is absolutely no control of
the crime scene. When they got the call, everybody was
looking around, and Joe, you would know this. It's really
hard to keep people, particularly people of rank, from going
(05:40):
up and looking and seeing the bodies and those sorts
of things, and so the crime scene has been contaminated
very beginning of this case. Guys, you're hearing Dale Carson,
high profile lawyer joining us out of Jacksonville, and I'm
just lawyer. This is why he's critical today. He's former FBI,
former lease officer and author. You can find him at
(06:02):
del Carson Law dot com, Audrey Joe Scott, Dell Carson
and also with us someone we lean on a lot,
doctor Jorry Cross, and psychologists joining us faculty Saint Leo University,
research consultant and author of Operation SSS. Guys, please jump
in whenever you have a thought like Dell just did,
(06:25):
and like Joe Scott brought up those rubber marks where
somebody scratched off near the home. Is that connected? Don't know?
Half must investigate. What are they doing right now? And
what have we learned? I want you to take a
listen to the county coroner, Kathy Mabbott. Most of them
had just like one that was so lethal stabund Yes,
(06:49):
can you describe what that one might have been? Fatal
ones were to the chess area or the upper body area?
Were there? And I only ask this because it sometimes
determines what kind of a crime. This was a crime
of passion, a random crime, fight, a struggle? Was there
were any of them slashed? Were any of their next cut?
(07:10):
Or were these all puncture ones? Well it was a
pretty large nine, so it's really hard to call them
puncture wounds. And they were definitely stabbings. And I mean
it has to be somebody that's pretty angry in order
to stab. For people to hearing our friends over at
News Nation just got morgan. I got a problem. Okay,
(07:33):
I got a lot of problems, but one of them
is that Kathy Mabbett, who I'm sure is a fine person,
is a registered nurse right for it, who has a
degree a BS and political science and a law degree
from the University of Idaho that she got in I
(07:56):
believe two thousand and six could have been two thousand
and one. Did you hear me? A registered nurse with
a law degree and a degree in political science. All
those things, each of themselves, are spectacular feats. Okay, really
hard to do all that, But we need a trained
(08:20):
medical examiner to look at the wounds, and also not
to disseminate information until it has been determined by a
medical doctor, and possibly not even then do I have
to say Delphi. Look, I want to know the information
(08:42):
just like everybody else, but this is not the time
to be releasing information about the wounds of the victims.
Because if the killer is watching TV, what's he going
to do right now? He's going to take that fixed
blade knife and get rid of it, is going to
clean it and get rid of it because so much
(09:04):
information is being leaked and information critical to the case,
and there's no central point of control where it. This
is what really struck me about her interview, and she
had given one prior to the one that we just
listened to, is that she made a statement before the
police ever made a statement. I mean an open statement
where they gave an interview no offense, but shut your piehole, lady,
(09:27):
go ahead, No, yeah, and so that's that's a bit different.
And I think that a lot of this goes and
I'm not disparaging the jurisdiction up there. I think a
lot of this goes to a lack of a lack
of experience that they that they might have would deal
with mass fatalities like this. And something you know, people
don't think this can happen in your town is and
(09:49):
it does. It truly does. Evidence here and it all
everything demonstrates that you have to be on the same
sheet of music, have had a point of control for
all information it's coming in, and it's called a command center.
You're right, Del Carson. One of the noticeable things is
when you do crime scenes like this, you've got to
cover everything to prevent the environment from despoiling it. I
(10:12):
haven't seen one covered area, particularly in the back of
the property, where it's likely this individual stood and surveyed
the house from perhaps a protected period of time. And
that's why the assaults were on the upper floor. Time
(10:42):
stories with Nancy Grace, the assaults are on two floors.
We know that there were two bedrooms on each floor.
We know that two of the victims are on the
second floor, two of the victims are on the third floor,
and the other two roommates to survive we're on the
first floor, which could be considered you know, look at it,
(11:05):
Joe Scott, an above ground basement. It's a split level house.
You've got the entry point there on the bottom with
the key code. Then the back kind of is built
into the side of a little bill. You got to
look at this place to get it. So at first
I thought, wow, the two surviving roommates are on the
(11:27):
bottom floor, so the port patch of walk up three floors.
He could have very well entered through that sliding glass door,
which would have put him at an upper level. Yes, no,
Joe Scott, Yes, you're absolutely right. I think he came
into the sliding glass door. The more I'm reasoning it through,
look at the house guarantee you came through that sliding
glass store, although a lot of people seemingly had the
(11:50):
code to that front door. Guys, take a listen now
to our cut forty our friensic k r E and
new details emerging. New details are emerging in the stabbing depths,
so for you Unversity of Idaho Students. Tonight, the Layta
County Corner says the four students were likely asleep, some
had defensive wounds in each victim was stabbed multiple times.
Authorities found no sign of sexual assault. Moscow Police say
(12:12):
at this point in the investigation, they do not believe
the two surviving roommates or the man seen standing near
a local food truck were involved in the murders. Police
also address rumors swirling online claiming the victims were gagged
and tied, saying those are not accurate and the identity
of the nine one one caller has not been released. Okay,
we do know, Audrey Conklin joining us I investigated. Reporter
(12:34):
with Fox News Digital, Audrey, we are learning more about
the person that call on nine one one. Now correct
me if I'm wrong, Auge, but I think that one
of the roommates that survived. To surviving roommate tried to
wake up one of the victims. The victim wouldn't wake up.
The surviving roommate calls a friend says, hey, I think
(12:57):
she's passed out. He or she is passed out. They
came over. They realized she's not passed out, she's dead.
They call nine one one, police get there and they
find the other three vic can that's my understanding. What
do you know, Audrey, I haven't heard about one of
(13:17):
the roommates trying to wake up one of the victims.
But what I can see happening, and this is speculative,
but maybe the roommates, who we now know lived on
the first floor of the house boma or heard something
that frightened them, you know, that morning, maybe without seeing
the victims themselves, maybe they saw blood, Maybe they saw
(13:41):
or heard something that was, you know, not unusual in
that household, so they called friends over to check out
the situation. Those friends may have seen a victim in
their bed not moving, which I think would make the
unconscious person report makes sense. And they called police from
(14:01):
one of the roommate's phone. That's right, because one of
the surviving roommate's cell phone was used to call nine
one one, but apparently it was not the surviving roommate.
Your construction of effects makes perfect sense, Audrey. Guys, take
a listen to our friend Kyle Simchek. Detectives say they've
(14:22):
received nearly five hundred tips, which are being processed, investigated,
and cleared. Thirty eight people who may have information about
the murders have been interviewed. The whereabouts of the killer
and the knife used are still unknown. Detectives sees the
contents of three dumpsters on King Road to look for evidence.
Police have also gone to local businesses to see if
anyone recently purchased a fixed blade knife. Anyone who saw
(14:44):
something suspicious, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information
about the murders is asked to call the Moscow Police Department.
Jessica Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics Jacksonviall State University. A
fixed blade lot knife as opposed to france as a switchblade.
It's not fixed, immovable in the hilt, or a pen
knife that folds out. A fixed blade knife is certainly
(15:09):
going to be the weapon because it's more sturdy, and
we know that these are very deep stab wounds. Explain, Yeah,
they're very very robust. I would imagine in their appearance
that means that the width of the knife, and you
know it had been mentioned earlier they use the term
puncture one. That's not a puncture one. This is going
(15:31):
to be a big open wound where the knife is
introduced into the body specifically, and I think one of
the reasons they're drawing this conclusion. I remember they keep
saying military style. I think that perhaps what happened there
is a hilt guard. That's that little bar that goes
across the handle that separates the blade from the handle
horizontally across the knife. Yeah, and so I think, and
(15:56):
most military style knives have those. We can see actually
a bruise called a hilt bruise lots of times when
this is driven into the body. That might be where
they're drawing that conclusion from. They've used the term kbar,
which is generally associated with Marine Corps a combat knife.
I don't know that for a fact, but it had
that name has been thrown around. Our marines have used
(16:18):
that since World War Two. I've heard that too to
doctor joy Cross and joining US psychologists and faculty Saint
Leo University also author doctor joy question, think about it.
This is between three and four in the morning, and apparently, Jackie,
I read that one of the victims was making calls
(16:39):
up until two fifty eight. Two fifty eight, did you
see that? Did you see that, Audrey, that one of
the victims is on the phone at two fifty eight,
Yet police believe that she was on the phone right
before the murders are estimated to have happened. Yeah, how
is she asleep two minutes later? Very curious timing, but
(17:03):
that's got to have been established by phone records or
someone that spoke it could look at their phone and go, yeah,
it was two fifty eight. Also, we know that one
of the girls continually called an ex boyfriend Jack. They
shared custody of a dog. I guess is one way
to put it, And we may even maybe even reconciling
that said Jack has been ruled out by the family,
(17:26):
whether it's a floury of phone calls to the friend
Jack right before the murders. So the last calls at
two fifty eight, and they're placing the murders between three
and four a m. Two minutes later, Yet they say
the victims were in bed and likely asleep. To doctor
(17:46):
Jerry Crawsen joining us, the thinking of this perp to
go from floor to floor. If the murders were targeted,
why kill four? Wouldn't it likely be one of the
victims was targeted, Yes, it could be, but then the
(18:06):
others just become collateral like witnesses. But also you know,
with a personality a frenzy attack, you know, once they
start the killing, then it just you know, the deviancy,
it just produces that behavior to kill again. I'd be
real interested in knowing the sequence of who was killed
(18:28):
first or how the bodies were found. And you know,
I think you could pretty well determine if we knew that,
like who was killed, because Ethan the boy, the male,
seems like he would be one of the first to
be eliminated. He said that he was likely in the
same bedroom with a female, his girlfriend. Yeah, Ziah, so
(18:52):
let's think this through. Jell Carson just got Morgan jump in.
We're talking about this scenario, and it's really impossible to
determine based specifically on the bodies, which murder was first,
but other information could tell us that. But think about it.
The lights are out, you enter a house, you're going
(19:15):
to kill somebody. You have a specific target, and mind
you go into one room, it's not the target, but
you kill them anyway. And if you work it away
progressively and you can determine when you find the target,
the target's nighthing is going to be different. And one
of the things that you mentioned that's really peculiar to
me is that if someone calls and says somebody's unconscious
(19:36):
here that and they're dead. There's no way you can
stab somebody in the chest and really eviscerat them without
leaving a tremendous blood trail. So you don't call the
police and say, look, there's somebody unconscious, You say, there's
blood everywhere. Somebody's dead exactly. I'm drawn with that killings
were so instantaneous, which belies the argum I meant that
(20:00):
there are multiple sab woms. What about it, Joe Scott, Yeah,
I'm thinking there is an outside possibility that science could
have the answer here. And this is what I believe.
If there is, if they are careful in collecting their evidence,
the person who was the first to be attacked will
have the least amount of others DNA on them. And
(20:24):
what I mean by that is once that night, assuming
of course, that they're using only one instrument, once that
blade is introduced into that first person's body, they withdraw
that blade. Okay, they now move over to the next
person and then reintroduce that blade into the next victim's
body and so forth and so on. You have what's yeah,
(20:47):
you have what's referred to as co mingling of blood
and certainly biological material DNA. So the person, if they
work their trace evidence right at the scene, the person
that has the least the least amount of DNA from
someone else, there's a higher likelihood that person could be
the first victim. Nancy, guys, take a listen to our
(21:08):
cut forty three. This is Sarah Robinson along with family members.
He says, Zanna was in constant communication with her family
and nothing about that night seemed unusual. The door lost,
with the number of code every time you open it,
How you go back to the how you go around
(21:28):
the house and getting in the house because the number
of codes. So they either knew that or they just
kind of went around and founded and slid over. The
father struggling to understand how this could have happened. Why, Zannah,
we were just hanging out at home. Yeah, Sannah was
her boyfriend. The code on the front door, the sliding
(21:50):
glass door on the side of the building, affixed to
a little patio, a kind of a wrap around patio.
What's the point of entry? Because they're you will find fingerprints,
and I say absolutely you will because this type of
frenzied attack is not conducive to the mind of a
(22:10):
killer who would wear gloves and then conduct four frenzied attacks.
That is inconsistent. What do we know investigators are doing
right now? They are retracing the steps two of the
victims who are a sportspar and then a food truck.
Two of the victims had been to a fraternity party
(22:33):
at the Sigma Kai house and then came back to
the residents on King Road. Why because they are looking
for suspects. Take a listen to Amanda Rowley at KREM.
Investigators believe Madison and Kayley were at the Corner Club
on Saturday from ten at pm to one thirty am
Sunday morning. Then they were at the grub truck on
(22:56):
Main Street at one forty am five minutes later. The
maps says they returned to their home on King Road.
Investigators also believe Ethan and Xano were at a party
at Sigma Kai from eight to nine pm Saturday night,
then returned to the King Road home at one forty
five am on Sunday. The hope is that someone might
(23:16):
remember being at or near these locations around the same
time and potentially saw something suspicious or relevant to the investigation.
Police are asking those people to call the tipline number
or email that information. The tip line is two zero
eight eight eight three seven zero five four repeat two
(23:37):
zero eight eight eight three seven zero four Dale. Is
that you, Jeff Fana? Go ahead? Yeah, Yeah, that's that's
just a dead end street. Look, the individual who murdered
these folks was laying in wait, backed up on the hill,
came in through that sliding glass door and perpetrated the crimes.
(24:01):
He has no association with other people, and you're likely
to find that the individuals either living in the woods,
like individuals in prior cases that that are not part
of polite society. They're not part of our society, and
you can see them. They're living homeless. They're different than us,
(24:21):
and they feel alienated from us, and that's one of
the driving features that causes them to injure us, aside
from any other psychological problem. What do you make of that?
To you, dot Jory Crossing, I agree with it, and
I think this person is going to be like a
transient person with no real ties to that community. You know,
(24:41):
in college towns. You know, they can blend in really
easy with the students, you know, and the people that
go unnoticed, being anonymous basically, and then just like they
are saying, you know, if they get a fixation stalking
or see a target and then they're gone, They're in
(25:02):
and out. Okay, Joe Scott Morgan, how does that jive
with police series and this was a targeted attack? Well, yeah,
I think that there's a chance that this individual has
been watching for a while. Again, I go back to
this idea of the points of observation. If they have
been tracking these girls. Listen, it would have been the
perfect environment that night, if they had been watching them
(25:23):
on any level, watching them go to parties. They're walking around,
remember when we saw that image at the food truck.
They're kind of jovial, laugh and cutting up. They'd been
out partying that night, and they were perfect targets at
that moment time for somebody that was looking to strike.
And again, brutally cold at night, this person feels comfortable
(25:44):
moving around in that environment. You saw everybody was wearing hoodies,
jackets and all that sort of thing. They would have
to be comfortable in that environment walking around, so that
might go to the point that they are transient, that
they're not part of polite society. We are learning more
and more about the timeline. That's the first thing you
do is trying to establish a timeline. Take her. Listen
(26:05):
to our friend. Zerene Shaw, a sister of one of
the four college students found murdered at an off campus
house near the University of Idaho, revealing new clues. So
I was able to get a pretty good timeline on
Kaylee and Mattie the night of from about ten fifteen
until shortly before three am, Olivia Gonzalvez says she discovered
(26:28):
at least six calls from her sister Kaylee's phone between
two twenty six and two fifty two, made to a
boyfriend in the early morning of November thirteenth. Detectives now
saying these phone calls are a part of their investigation.
The phone calls are critical because we know that Gonzalves
was up, Zanna was up at two fifty two a m.
(26:55):
Let me think that through two fifty two am. It
was Kael, not Zana car Noodle. Kelly was up at
two fifty two am on the phone. Yet Augie Coughlind
they're starting the timeline of their murders at three am, right,
So police have said that between three am and four
(27:17):
am is when the murders occurred. So they could have
been asleep, but yeah, phone activity shows that they were
up and trying to contact people right before the murders occurs.
It's very creepy to doctor Jerry Crawsen to know that
one of the victims, Kelly, is on the phone at
(27:38):
two fifty two am and the timeline says the murders
at three am. Could someone have been watching and when
the lights are turned off they enter the home. They
could have already been in the home, okay, and waiting,
you know, fling down, like hearing a conversation on the phone. Okay,
(28:03):
let the phone get hung up. You know one thing
you mentioned earlier about the weapon, and they were looking
and checking at the stores to see somebody. I would
think this individual, this weapon is really important to them.
I don't think they just went out and bought it.
I think they've had it for a while. This has
been part of that identity, if you lack for a
(28:26):
better psychological term, well, it is actually an identity every
time that we go camping, when we run into other
campers a lot, and it's usually men will have huge
hunting knives and sheets attached to their belts the way
people will attach like an iPhone or some other instrument
(28:50):
or tool to their belts. These knives are attached to them,
so that does speak to their identity. Yeah, and you
know here in the oh everybody carries a knife. They
got those clip on it. I don't know about that
because I don't know a single soul that carries a
knife other than the Scout troop leader, the man, not
(29:11):
the woman. Okay, well, you guys go ahead and carrie
an if that's your business, take a listen now to
Captain Roger Lanier with a Moscow police on the morning
of November thirteenth, at eleven fifty eight am. Nine one
one call was On the evening of November twelfth, Kaylee
(29:32):
Gonsalvez and Madison Wigan were at a local bar and
were later at a food truck in downtown Moscow. They
arrived home at approximately one forty five am. On the
morning of November thirteenth. Ethan Chapin and Zana Carnodle were
at the Sigma Kai House before also arriving home at
(29:53):
approximately one forty five AM. Two surviving roommates were also
out in the community, and they returned home at approximately
one m and did not wake up until later that morning.
(30:21):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, right now, cops are
scouring the area for video surveillance. I'm talking about ring
doorbell cameras, stop light cameras, business surveillance video such as
at the corner bar where they were two of them
(30:43):
were that night at the food trucks where we spot
two of the victims at the food truck just before
their murders. Was that udal jump in. Look, they're gonna
find a sniper's hide up on the hill behind that house.
That's where their evidence is going to be. This person
has waited for them to come home. He didn't follow them.
(31:07):
He wasn't watching them and following behind him in a
car or on a BikeE He was waiting and that's
where the first investigation should have been conducted. Candidly. Now,
I taught serial killers for the Bureau for a number
of years. Those people had the patience of job. They
will wait and wait and wait until the opportunity is perfect.
(31:29):
From their perspective, what we've got to worry about, is
there's another pet that was killed and I handled a
case or was involved in a case involving that sort
of thing where the pets started going missing first, and
then there was a homicide that was directly connected to
the individual who was taking the pet hold on ag
Conklin joining us from Fox News Digital. Has a connection
(31:51):
been made in any way from a pet to the
quadruple murder. No connections have been made yet between any
kind of animal violence in the murders, but I'm sure
that something police are looking at. What about this theory, Audrey?
What about the theory that the purp came into the
home while everyone was gone? Every single person was out
(32:15):
of that home, All six were gone, the five roommates
and the boyfriend Ethan all gone. When they come home
and he's already in there and everybody starts settling down
to sleep. I wonder if it happened like that, or
Joe Scott did he enter after they were asleep through
(32:38):
that sliding class door? What do you think? You know?
First Blush, When I heard about this, I really had
thought that this guy was possibly laying in wait inside
the residence. I mean, he could be in there for
any reason, looking for food, looking for money, and looking
for something to steal, and then everybody starts coming home.
(32:58):
He may have thought they were hey, yeah, And you know,
it's like Dale was saying, is this is this individual
sole focus in life, perhaps his target. He can sit
there and he can sit there and wait and wait
because he's totally fixed on these individuals as targets or
maybe one of them that he's rode in on. And
it would not surprise me if they were to find
(33:18):
evidence within the house that he had been hiding somewhere
sequest or somewhere in that house and waiting for them
to come in. But we just we don't know. And
given the fact that that there was, it seems at
least that there may have been a lack of security
at the scene when processing. And look, you have to
say things are chaotic at the beginning with many times
(33:41):
like this. But it's it's troubling to me. I hope
they haven't missed something outside the house. The dog del
Carson is talking about high profile lawyer right at Jackson,
former fed with the FBI, A woman who lives near
the quadruple murder there in Idaho about three miles as
her little mini Australian shepherd had literally been filayed a
(34:06):
few weeks before the quadruple murder, making some people think
that the two are connected. Back to this, take a
listen to Chief James Fry, Detectives are looking to develop
any context content that would help us in this event.
Anyone who has observed any notable behavior, or has any
(34:29):
video surveillance, or can provide relevant information about these murders,
please call our tip line at two oh eight eight
eight three seven one eight zero, or you can email
the tip line at and that is a tip line
at CI dot Moscow dot id dot us and more
(34:53):
from Captain Roger Lanier. Listen. On the morning of November thirteenth,
at eleven fifty eight, nine one one call was placed
to the Witcom Despatch center reporting an unconscious person. The
call originated from inside the residence and was made from
the phone of one of the surviving roommates. Moscow Police
(35:17):
Department officers responded and located four victims, two on the
second floor and two on the third floor. We're getting
a little clarification regarding who made the nine one one call.
Take a listen again to Chief James Fry. Gotti shorts.
NBC News just following up on the nine one one call,
you said that you don't believe that's the killer. Can
(35:38):
you conclusively rule out the person that called nine one
one from inside the home as a suspect in this case?
Can you aueads just ask that one more time? Please? Yeah,
the person that was inside the home that called nine
one one, that was not one of the roommates, can
you conclusively rule that person out as a suspect at
this point, I don't think I said that it wasn't
(35:59):
one of the room. I said that it was used
with the roommate's phone. I believe somebody asked if that
wasn't the killer, and you say, no, no, that's correct.
Respond there was other friends that had arrived at the location.
So that goes back to what Audrey Coughlin from Fast
New Digital was telling us that one of the roommates
(36:23):
apparently couldn't wake up a victim. Maybe she just called
her through the door, I don't know, and then she
the surviving roommate, called friends over. The friends come over,
one of them uses roommates phone to call nine one one.
There's a lot that's been made about who called nine
one one. It's a friend of the surviving roommate and
(36:46):
they have been ruled out as suspects along with the
surviving roommates. Here's more from Captain Rogers. Lanier investigators have
determined to two areas of interest within the city and
have provided maps which are on our Facebook page and
on our website, and these are areas that they have
(37:09):
canvassed for additional surveillance video and tips, and have contacted
several residents in the areas. The areas are generally south
of Taylor Avenue to Paulus River Drive in west of
Highway ninety five. Detectives have also canvassed several other neighborhoods
(37:30):
looking for evidence, looking for additional surveillance video, and contacting
residents and speaking to them to see if they may
have heard or seen something. Dude, you just got Morgan.
I think that what the police need to be doing
right now. And I've got it narrowed down to four
or five things. One looking for the suspects and retracing.
(37:55):
That would include Corner Claw where gone Salvas went, then
the grub truck and of course a Sigma Kai house
to look at all the rain cams, the doorbell cams,
a surveillance video, the DNA. There's no way that this
scene could have played out the way it did without
(38:15):
fiber fingerprints, DNA hair and they're going to have to
use ancestral DNA lt Y because I believe that the
purp may not be in codis or aphis. They may
get a fingerprint or DNA at the scene, but then
I have anything to match it too, explain. Yeah, you know,
(38:37):
I got to tell you, I don't know that I
agree relative to fingerprints. I think that this person probably
has been an offender at some point in time, possible
if they can recover a late if they can recover
a latent print at that scene. And trust me, this
is an evidence rich environment. This place would have been
bathed in blood, Nancy. He's going to transfer a lot
(38:58):
of stuff, and he can total potentially have left bloody
fingerprints behind if he's not wearing clothes. And it's like
you said at the open, I don't know that this
guy is sophisticated enough to have shown up with gloves. No,
probably has a real, real desire to run his hands
over the surfaces, I would imagine, so he's gonna leave
(39:19):
something of himself behind. Absolutely, somewhere out there are bloody clothes,
bloody shoes. Yeah, one more thing I have to emphasize.
As feverish as this was, Nancy, there is a high
probability that this monster cut himself in these. He may
have left his DNA behind, commingled with the victim's DNA's word,
(39:40):
we wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace comes choice, signing
off goodbye friend.
Host
Nancy Grace
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