270 - Three Out Of Ten

On this week’s quilt episode, Karen and Georgia cover the Brides in the Bath Murders and the case of Pam Hupp.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:17):
And welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hartstar. That's
Karen Kilgarre. If if you can believe it, can you
can you wrap your head around Karen?

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Five years in a row of doing this for you,
we both show up every time.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
This is believe it my second longest relationship this podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Officially, we're working on it. We're still a work in progress,
as we all are, and all relationships are there discussion
and a compromise.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Right, how's it going good? Especially because I have found
almost an entire nitro latte with oat milk. What does
that mean? That means I'm going to be real happy
during this recording?

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Is there something special about that canned latte?

Speaker 1 (01:15):
It's night nitro on sweetened black and oatmelt coffee, So
it's essentially what's the cold brew? Oh shit?

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Okay, but it's so you're about to go off? Is
that what you're warning me about?

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Hey, you're about to go for you? I'm having a
best day. Yeah, what's up with you? Nothing? You know?
I just have my theory.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
I have my theory about the end of quarantine and
how difficult I think we none of us understand how
difficult the ending of things are even things we don't want.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
To be in anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, the adjustment we're about to make basically merging back into.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Society as a whole hata. None of us have ever
done it before.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
No one understands really what any of these vibes or
feelings are. There's nothing to necessarily do about it, and
we all have to like wait for our second shot
and then see what happens. And it's very I just
don't want to be in my house anymore. That's what
it comes down to, is a big piece of it
is no good can come from sitting in your house

(02:24):
this month.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Let me ask you, because you loved your house a
year and two months ago, do you resent it a
little bit at this point?

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Not in the least, because this house has made my
enjoyment of this house has made it easier for me,
Like I always always think of people, like I think
of my past apartment relationship situations and how impossible they
would be, or how.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Your last house can you act, how depressing you would
be your ex husband house.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
That house was so depressing just structurally, just architecturally, it
was like it was a Winchester mystery of bad feelings
and bad vibe.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
It had a lot of rooms that didn't make sense.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
There's a lot of doors that opened right onto the
next room. There were no very fuel. Yeah, it was
just weird and I was trying to make it work
and that is the story of my life. And so no,
this the house I have now is a joy and
I love it. And well the good news is, yeah,
it's all turning around and change is actually ultimately good

(03:27):
of course, so it will be okay.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
Think of it as like quarantine is a womb and
we're in the birth canal. Were stuck in the birth canal,
so hopefully we're getting oxygen and we were about to
be birthed into the world. Take a first deep breath,
get spanked on the ass, and fucking get to it.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
And that's like the goal. But at the moment, the
soft plates in our skull are smashed together and making
it feel like our brain is going to come out
of our head, and that's it's it's temporary.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, the doctor is temporary. It's threatening us with the
C section and you're like, no, I tried a little harder.
The clamps are coming in for our for our skull.
Do they still use those.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
My thing is no big moves in the birth now,
no big moves. Just keep it low fucking key as
much as you can in the right.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Let that potocin work. Why do I know so much
about birth?

Speaker 3 (04:28):
No?

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Favorite. There was a show when I was like in
my twenties called a birth Story, and it was like literally,
you know, the last couple of days of someone's and
I was obsessed with it. And then I started watching
birthing videos. God, why am I admitting this just because
it became an interest?

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yes, yes, yes, And that's when you decided never to
have children.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
It was like that don't look like fun. Oh that
looks parable, and then I'm tired for eighteen years.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
I'll never forget when my friend, who had two kids
at the time and I was probably twenty seven, told
me God how embarrassed she was because when she had
her first baby, she's shit on the birth on the
table and she was so embarrassed that that happened in
front of her husband and all this stuff. And I
remember looking at her like, oh God, that's like, it's.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
All so difficult. Do you change as a person? But
I think that happens every time, And people didn't talk
about it. And I think that's why they positioned the
husband at the shoulders. Yes, I agree, it's just so polite,
but also like you should take a look, motherfucker, and
see what I'm going through. Get down there, get your
face close up.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
I was going to Actually, there's a bunch of stuff
that happened last week. The lots of people were interacting with.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
All week long. Oh yeah, let's hear it. So many things.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Uh, the first and foremost, I have to say, it
was a surprise how the Catholic I've rose up owned.
I mean, unbelievable, Oh my gosh. I think it's part
there are a lot of us who are either lapsed
Catholics ex Catholics still practicing, but low key Catholics who

(06:14):
have all this knowledge in our brain. So like, clearly
I'm not one of the leading people on this, but
if you if you had like grandparents that did a
bunch of Catholic stuff around you, you know it. So yeah, honestly,
minimum fifty tweets from people going.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
I'm sure a bunch of people told you this already,
but it's the first one. It's and Instagram's only because
fifty comments, but you can see other people's comments, so
it's not like they don't know which. Just blush your heart, everyone,
get your shit out, you know. So what's what did
it say?

Speaker 2 (06:47):
This was from the I'm just going to read the
first one and they included a photo of the statue,
so we.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Know what about we speak? That's pla right.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
And it was from some one whose handle is Fleetwood Mom,
so she's at Tango or her name, I don't know
what the difference of the two is. The the at
is Tango maureene c and Tango morin Sea was first
and she included a photo. Is it says to us?
Just listen to the latest minnisode. The buried statue was
actually probably a statue of Saint Joseph, because Irish Catholics

(07:22):
love hocus pocus Catholicism.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
Finally, so fucking admits.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
That it's all magic, so true, and believe that burying
Saint Joseph upside down in a garden will.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
Help you sell your house. It's green, I glow in
the dark. It's made of the same material as my
childhood retainer because it's glowing the dark movie.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
So he's down there underground, I'm side down, the soil
upside down because that is he's the patron saint of
real estate or.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Whatever, and then said that then you are. Then if
you buy the house, you're supposed to dig it up
put it on your mantle, which I think is cool
as this chotchkey lover. I love that. Uh yeah, I
mean sure that seems dirty.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
But if, yes, if that's what you want to do,
I think that's kind of great.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Well, none, if it's buried and manure. But if it's
just like plain old backyard dirt.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
But it's your mantle, and then it's this plastic glow
in the dark, like truly daytime glow in the dark
things that are just weird green, like nauseated green. Is
like you know, you wouldn't rush to put it on
the mantle.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
No, it doesn't seem like.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
But I do appreciate everybody for app I mean I
still get them all day every day. Usually I get
like a handful. This was so many people.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Well that's great. Another clarification corner which we value request
feel like, slowly but surely.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
We're going to get We're going to become experts in
both judys am An Catholicism through do and through our mistakes.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
And my mom will finally be happy. Oh, we all
go to temple together as a family. It'll make up
for the fact that my brother, sister and I none
of us married a Jewish person because we were so
like fuck that at the end of our bar miz
bar and b mitzas, we were like never again, see
you later, bye, Thanks for the check. My brother actually

(09:21):
married a Catholic girl, now that I think about it. Yolanda,
Yolanda Cortes. She's amazing. Oh she is. I love Yolanda.
She's so nice. Is a psychologist for severe children with
severe cases of autism. It's She's a fucking saint. I

(09:41):
love her. She makes our fads, she gives our family
a good reputation. That's good.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Get it, however, you can.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
Exactly that's exactly right. What else can I tell you
that I've finally taken a break from sopranos. Oh yeah,
and I have something new, Thank fucking god. So if
everyone needs a break, Highly suggest Made for Love on HBO.
Have you been watching it?

Speaker 2 (10:04):
No?

Speaker 1 (10:04):
I haven't heard of it. Oh my god, it's incredible.
It's new, made Made for Love. It's Kristin Malatti from
all the sci Fi Things and how I met your mother.
Do you know who Billy? Sorry? Sorry, really quick? Is
she the girl that was in Palm Springs with exactly?
I love her? And she was in the second season

(10:25):
of Fargo. Oh yeah, and she is so good, so good,
and a great episode of Black Mirror with what's his
name who's married to Kristin Kirsten who was in Friday
Night Lights. This is getting caught. Oh oh, Jesse plummin
thank you, this is getting convoluted. So she was in
an episode of Black Mirror on a spaceship. And then
Billy Magnusson. Do you know who that is?

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Beautiful blonde Billy Madison who had to go back to
fourth grade?

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yes, I've heard of he stars in No but that
would be fucking great, right, that's It's pretty good. Billy
magnus Son, who was in it, also in an episode
of Black Mirror. Also in Kimmy Schmidt Fun Fact. In
an episode in a show called American Crime, he played
none other than Cato fucking Caleb. Wait, which is I'm looking?

(11:13):
You have to look at him. He's gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
He's our new we're his new family. Oh yes, yes, yes,
I know this guy.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
He's like in everything, and you see him, you're like,
I know a guy from somewhere and you don't know
where it is.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
And he's legit great in everything he does. But he's
he's the most beautiful character actor. It doesn't make sense.
This that's how it is these days. Is everyone so pretty?

Speaker 1 (11:31):
This is a tour de force on his fucking part,
Like he plays such a creep beautifully oh, made to love,
made for love, my oh. And he also is in
or was in Your Pretty Face Is Going to Hell,
which with Henry the Henry Zebrowski, friend of the family
and one of the pioneering reasons we started this podcast. Yeah,

(11:56):
so I don't know fun And then also way back
in the beginning of his career, he was in As
the World Turns, which I think is a necessity for
character actors.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Right, well, absolutely, I mean what's funny is this guy
does not look like is not a traditional character actor
because he's gorgeous, but he plays a certain villain, a certain.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
Bad guy, a certain slimy guy.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
So then, Zach, he's been kind of corralled into this.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
But it's the same thing as Kristin Mulaney. That's her
last name, right, Lotti Kristin Miliotti.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
So she is similar where I find her to be
an incredible actor. Absolutely not just good or regular or
the standard there, but she's sublime actress.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
In that second season of.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Fargo, which every member of that cast was really like
hitting threes the entire time, So it was like, really
a beautiful thing to see. He's three goody on threes
in basketball is when you're it's like for shooting from
the outside, so you're getting an extra point.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Look at you, like, three out of its head doesn't
sound great. Actually, I don't know a basketball girl not.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
Raiding her her face or body. We're saying she's killing it.
She's killing and killing it. Yeah, She's one of the
reasons that second season of Fargo was transformative experience.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
I remember who she's played in that, but congratulations.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
She had cancer. She was the young mom with cancer,
which is such a fucking eighties thing, the idea that
they represented it in a show like that. I was
just like this in the eighties. In the early eighties,
everyone's parents got divorced.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
Truly.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
I would ask my parents every day, are you going
to get divorced today? And my mom was like, this
is crazy. I was like, I need just I need you.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
The first one to know as a psyche. How did
she not take you to a child psychologist based on
that alone? Because she was always just like, please, I
don't have time to drive you a fucking therapy. Everybody had.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Everybody's parents got divorced, and then a bunch of like
moms got cancer, where you're like, wait, what what what?
Like it was so horrifying, and the fact that they
laced that in was amazed.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
At the time though you were like, but they're old
ladies and now I'm forty, and I'm like, oh, that's tragic.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
And also at the time, we should say at the
time it was it could be a death sentence, and.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
These days not as much, thank god. Do you know
it's so crazy that you said. That is Kristin Millioudby's
mom in this dies of cancer. It's not a spoiler
in the like nineties or eighties, and her dad is
played by Ray Romano brilliantly. Oh that's interesting, brilliantly played
by him. He's very good as well this this. Oh
and then Patty what's her name?

Speaker 2 (14:37):
Comedian Patti Duke, she plays twins right, she is her
own teenage cousin.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
Hold on, I have to give her a shout out
because she doesn't know who I am, but I find
her so delightful on Instagram and I've seen her do
stand up and she is.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Patty Arquette, Patti Harrison, Yes, Patti Harris, Patty Harrison.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
Follow her on Instagram. It's party Underscore Harderson. She is.
She the filthiest mouth and she is the funniest I
just am like she's this. She's the office bitch in Shrill,
which is a great show too. There's a lot to
talk about Made for Love. That's all. Well, Congratua. It's
fun to find a new thing that you actually like. Yeah,

(15:16):
it's great.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
I started watching my version of this is of course British.
It's a British crime proceud that fits with the with
the norm.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
But you see this if you have Amazon Prime, you
see this on there all the time. It's called may Day.
It's from a while ago, and it's real good. It's
it's it's real good.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
There's a murder in a town and you don't know
who did it and everyone is suspicious.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Is it a charming town? Is it a charming British countryside?

Speaker 4 (15:42):
Town it is, and it's forest based, which is another
additional thing that a part of it where I'm like,
if you can fold in a little bit of pagan
forest witchery, which this has.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
Quite a bit. It's good stuff.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
But the one of the stars of it is the
great British actress Leslie Manville who was in Phantom Thread,
and she was in the.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
Show that I love called Mum. If you need to
relax and watch some British comedy, very light, very subtle
British comedy, there's there's a series called Mum. I know
for a fact, I've recommended it before.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
It's so lovely. It's about a woman whose husband just
died and basically what her life slowly kind of turns
into in a really lovely way. It's like surprisingly wonderful.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
That sounds ring. That's like a chill one in Mine's
like a like a crazy sci fi adventure set in
the future. It's yeah, so's to watch mine and then
watch yours to go to before you go to bed.
I feel like, then we do brackets and then we
see who votes for who and then fight to the
death in a ball pit, right, a.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
Ballpit that has razors hidden around and all we have
for weapons is flower and.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
At flower and zippo lighters.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
I also wanted to say, uh, because my story last
week with the Paris burning murders, I was kind of
breathtaking to see that the legendary drag performer Peaches Christ
complimented us.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
On that story. I didn't do anything on Twitter, well
you know, but we get we share it, thank you,
we do, and Uh, it was just.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
One of those kind of things because we've started following
each other and I've heard of her. She's a legend
and she's I'm almost positive she is in San Francisco,
which is one of those kind of things like when
you're a legend there, it.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
Stays with you. So thank you.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
I believe she listens and it meant the world.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Gorgeous, What a what an honor, and especially someone in
that community who's like, you did it, you did it justice?
That is that what we do this for.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
I guess that's kind of it's a subconscious brag ultimately,
but it's like, but if he just Christ said you
says you did a good job, then you can take
that to the fucking b.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
That's right, And anyone ever talks shit just retweet her
tweet at you to that fucking motherfucker. And no matter
what the topic, that's right. Oh yeah, you don't like
the way I said whatever, I didn't put a fuck.
I said you're I spelt you're wrong.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
Well guess what, Oh that wouldn't happen to me.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Just kidding. And we know we know the words I
speak sometimes incorrectly. Hey, don't we all? Hey? Man? Also, yeah,
just as a sidebar.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
A couple people were wondering I was not being sarcastic
when I said Pittsburgh was one of my favorite cities.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
That was not sarcasm. It's sad that people immediately are like,
you love Cincinnati? What it's like? No, I can love Cincinnati.
It's the best. Their thrift stores are unbelievable, right, They're
like the nineties thrift stores that we used to go
to and love that are now gone.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Here's a moment of do you remember this from the
road the ratio totally steal? You must remember this is
theme song because you Koreena Loong? Where gets mounted us?
Do you remember this from tour? Okay, when we landed
in Pittsburgh. First of all, remember when I lost my
phone and ran to the gate to try to go

(19:17):
get it off the plane, and it wasn't there, and
it turned out I'd left it in the bed.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
I remember that well, which when Vince left his backpack
in the cab and had to go meet, Like we
had a show that night and he had He usually
goes to the venue at like five o'clock before us
to get everything set up. So we all lose. We
all lose shit.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
It's yes, definitely happens. But also we had gotten to
be such a well oiled machine that those hiccups, which
usually were me based, were major hiccups.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Starts like but that aside. We got to Pittsburgh.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
We got into the suv and we had a driver
who introduced us to Pittsburgh.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Do you remember that man who was like.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
We were talking amongst ourselves. I think you were talking,
I want to go to this place. I looked up
this place, I heard about this place. And then he basically,
very politely and very naturally, kind of slid into the conversation,
was like a lot of people don't know this about Pittsburgh,
and was basically giving us like fun facts and like
kind of.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
A verbal tour. It was the coolest conversation. He was.
He had this great accent. You wouldn't have guessed that
he would be.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
He was like almost like a Pittsburgh advocate, like where
at this town?

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Where that da da da da da? And it was
the greatest. It was such a great introduction. And or
we're tired and you've lost your phone and problem nine
times out of ten, the fucking hotel room isn't ready
yet because for some fucking reason you always can't check
until four, which I think is bullshit, because if you
rent a room, you should have it for twenty four
fucking hours, which is a day. You do you have

(20:54):
it till the next day at four. No you don't
remember they always kick you out at eleven or twelve. Well,
because clean they have to turn the room over. Hear
me out, this is my platform. Okay, no I don't
that's fine. Oh thought I thought you had a plan,
like you don't know way to do it. I never
have a plan. I just fly by the seat of
my pants. Yeah. That was lovely, and so we loved
it. It was really nice.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
So just there are people who I relate to you.
It's hard to take a compliment, but that's how it was.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Meant hey, since this is, after all, fifty percent of
true crime podcast, can I say, tell a couple of
things that please based on that? So, did you hear
that Killers of the Flower Moon, the incredible book is
being turned into a movie. You're shaking your head, guess.
So I'm guessing that's a yes. And it's I think

(21:44):
it's really cool because so Tatanka means is playing? Is
it is in it? I know this switch is true.
It was great. And then also a sort of friend
of the family, Pat Healy is in it, who I
love because I see him in the neighborhood once every
ten years after meeting him twenty years ago, and he

(22:06):
never forgets my name. Maybe once every five years we
walked by each other, and he's like Georgia, and he
doesn't need to know who I am for any fucking reason.
He's in He is in a million movies too. He
was the evil guy in Compliance, Yes, which is the
he's a great actor. Yes, he's great. So I love
him just if you remember me. That's all it takes.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
Really well, that's a thing of like, you know, the
books about persuasion or political anything is honestly on the
like in the first chapter. It's always remember people's names.
It means the.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
World to them. Well you're great, which is that? And
I just I just write off your glory. I'm great
at it. Yes, do you remember everyone's fucking name? Oh?
I don't even really remember that Pittsburgh thing. I was
just going along with it because I didn't want to
be a dick to Pittsburgh. To be totally the thing
I was picturing, I realized was actually happened in Arizona,

(22:58):
and so I was like, shit, it's not it.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
Here's the thing though, a lot of those experiences that's
so funny. A lot of those experiences are so similar
because you're inside a car, So it's not like you know,
oh we were in a blue car that time you're
inside the car, it's the guy sitting. It's always the
same setup and it's just different variables within it.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
I appreciate it. I appreciate you, but it's purely it's
purely the past twenty years of drinking.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
Listen, if you don't think I have big Swiss cheese
holes in my brain as we speak, comes in a.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
Month and a half since I've had a drink and
a keeping like am I fix cat am I done yet?
Why is my memory coming back? What's happening?

Speaker 2 (23:40):
The reason I was nodding my head is because one
of my favorite musicians, Jason isbel It also got cast
in that monoh and he tweeted about it, and I
had a little bit of a like, I'm so excited
kind of thing, and it was just like, oh my god,
this is so cool because it feels like the casting
is very conscious about putting the right representation of people

(24:05):
in place and telling the story and in that way,
which I think is so.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
Cool, absolutely absolutely necessary. And in fact, my computer right
now is sitting on a copy of I'm not fucking
kidding you, Killers of the Flower Moon. Mm hmm, so
I always have right hand.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
I should thank my friend Denisa Kreisel because she recommended
that book to me three years ago. Oh yeah, we
worked on Baskets together. She recommended it so long ago
and told me and begged me to listen to it.
I was like, absolutely, just bought the audiobook and never
never did.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yeah. The other thing True Crime thing I wanted to
mention is that Kristen Smart, who I mentioned a couple
episodes back, because I listened to the podcast in your
own backyard. That is fucking incredible, and so listen to
it to catch up on the case because there have
been two arrests in that case, the father and son
who have always been a suspect. It seems like they

(24:57):
found some forensic evidence finally, which they should have done
twenty five fucking years ago if they had actually done
a correct, proper investigation instead of saying she was a runaway.
So fucking hallelujah. Congratulations to in your own backyard, because
you are a congratulation in this catch game in the
same way Michelle McNamara was. It's incredible. I got chills.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
That's awesome and sorry, But are those people that started
that podcast from San Luis Obispo or like that area?

Speaker 1 (25:28):
He's that why they started it. Yeah, So it's hosted
and just created by Chris Lambert, who's a freelance journalist
from that area, and that for twenty five years there's
been a billboard of her face and have you seen
me on it? So I think so many people are
saying who from that area, saying I grew up passing
that billboard and actually Chris helped start or maybe someone

(25:50):
he had started a fund to get a new one
up because it was so old. So I think everyone
from that area and everyone went to college at cal
Poly just or waiting for something to happen.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah, well that's it's kind of the whole ethos behind
the idea of a hometown story, you know, which was
George's idea when we started this podcast, is we all
got into true crime for a certain reason, for because
we got exposed to it at a certain period of
time or whatever. Or we have these stories that because

(26:22):
they were near where we grew up, or somebody went
to our school or whatever it is, it's the one
that is your case. And there's a lot of oftentimes
you know, derision or like criticism of true crime, of
being interested in true crime because of that idea. It's
always interpreted as like this almost like a rubber necking

(26:44):
kind of thing for.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
People who are outside of it.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
And I think when people who are inside of it,
this is such a great example of really what it's like.
Or it's like, no, this was a girl that lived
in my town disappeared. It mattered the fact that nothing
got done about it matters, you know, And so it's
not there's always that thing of like, well, other things matter.
It's like, yeah, right, but this is in my tiny town.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah exactly. It's we all have someone and something like
like Polyclaus from your town, and that must have shaken
you guys to the core.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah, it changed the entire town permanently. Yeah, it's incredible.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Mine was the kid who his father divorce took him
to This is a horrible story, but his father took
him to Disneyland. They got in a motel and he
let the kids bed on fire.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
He survived. It's so horrifying.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
But I could. I've never stopped thinking about it, and
it just changed me that the father could do something.
And my parents were divorced too, and we went on
vacations with my dad. So it's just like, put this,
not that Marty would ever fucking do something like that,
but just put this fear in me in this being like, oh,
other people have it really bad, and you know life

(28:04):
can be a fucking monster. Yeah, And in the armchair
expert thing quote unquote is so it's like such a
negative thing to so many people, but I think people
like Michelle McNamara and Paul Haynes and now Chris Lambert
are changing the face of that and giving us some
fucking legitimacy, which I feel like is powerful and is

(28:25):
going to only help other cases. It can only help right,
more eyes on it, even if they're not professionals, because
look at this Kristen Smart case. They had twenty five
years and multiple changes in sheriff and head sheriffs whatever
they're called, and district attorneys, and none of them were
able to do anything about it. And this podcast comes along,

(28:48):
and maybe it's a coincidence that this case now has momentum,
but I don't think so. No, it doesn't seem like it. No, Yeah,
it's nice. It's a nice change.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
It's a good it feels like it's a you know,
there's possibilities in places to affect change, So congratulations to
that podcast, and it's.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
And you know, it's nice. One.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
There can be a resolution of some kind, or at
least at least a step forward, we'll see.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
Definitely, speaking of horrible things, I'm reading this great book.
So it's this harrowing book called The Trauma Cleaner. I
cannot name all the trigger warnings it has because it
would take four hours, So be careful. If you loved
orders and intervention, this book is for you. Oh wow, Yeah,

(29:41):
I loved both. It's dark. It's The Trauma Cleaner. One
Woman's Extraordinary Life in the Business of Death, Decay, and
Disaster by Sarah Krassnastein. It's about this dynamic, incredible woman
who has been through so much in her life, trauma
after trauma, and now as an older woman with like

(30:04):
lung cancer. Her career is going to the places where
horrible things have happened, and private homes were where horrific
things have happened, and helping those families and those individuals
like the hoarders re assess their lives with so much empathy,
partly because of what she went through and the way

(30:26):
she was treated. She's trans and she has done some
horrible things herself.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
I have read Oh no, sorry, I think this person.
She's been on Criminal. Phoebe Judge has interviewed her on
Criminal and that's how I know this story.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Oh my god, that.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
Woman is an unbelievable The way she talks about what
she does for a living and why is so inspirational. Yeah,
I can't wait. Wait, are you listening to an audiobook
or a book?

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Book and the reader is beautiful, The book is written,
it could it could just be a story of this
woman's life and it would be incredible. But the writer, Yeah,
but the writer, Sarah Kranisteine, I hope I'm saying that right,
is such a poetic, beautiful writer that these horrific, traumatizing
things she's writing about sound gorgeous and get to hit

(31:22):
you in the heart. And I just can't say enough
good things about it. But it's definitely triggering. The woman's name,
who is the trauma cleaner? Sandra Pankhurst is her name?

Speaker 2 (31:33):
And will you will you spell the author's last name really?

Speaker 1 (31:35):
Quote definitely her last name is spelled k r A
s n O s t e i n krasnostein Krasnostin.
That's right, krasnostein Australian. So you get that great accent
going to sure, which is always love. It helpful when things.
It's helpful to deliver bad news in a British accent.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
I feel like or any yeah, any negative thing, some
always work.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
Someone are very good, start that service. Hello, miss hotstuck.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, Hi, yes, your ups package it's smashed.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Oh tiny bit, that's okay. It was a priceless heirline
from my grandma. But Oh wow, you sound so friendly.
I am thank you. Okay, wait a second, I got
I gotta ask can we have I think it'd be
even better if it was a drunk British person.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
Listen, listen, you don't know it is like living in
a fuck Brexit. Let me you know how hard that
was drunk careen British. That would really really hurt my fuck.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
Can I just say this the other day, if you
have stacked.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Washing machine at a laundry mat, I need to warn
you don't be careful.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
I don't I want to save this paint. I stood up.
Oh no, I know where this is going.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
Yes, this happened yesterday, and I honestly was like I
might have to.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Go to the You were like a cartoon character with
fucking stars over your head. You hit, you plunked your
fucking head.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
I bent over to take the wet clothes out of
the wash and stand up to put them the dryer,
and I stood up full speed and slam to the
back of my head into the dryer door, to the
point where I was like, this is what it feels
like to get like have someone hit you with a
pipe over the back of the head when.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
They're you know what I mean. It was. It was
such a bummer all day long.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
I'm fine now, and I had an egg but it
went away, thank god.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
Wow. I thought, you're like, because I like always eating
an egg good for a concussion.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
I didn't know that you crack a raw egg and
you stick it on your scalp.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
No. I had a fucking bump that was wallow like hole.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
I literally was like, make sure you don't take a
nap like I was all the concussion concussion procedure because
I was just like, what are you smelling anything weird?

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Be careful that they don't like, just make those stay open.
I think is a fucking trick, big big washing machine
getting you to fucking wight. Oh for like the healthcare
system and the wash big washing machine are in motherfucking
kahoots and also big skull oly speaking of wit, sorry
I speaking of w Let me ask you. I don't

(34:18):
know why to put you on the spot, but I'm
putting on the spot, which if you had to go
to the hospital and none of your neighbors were around,
would you call me or Stephen? Now, Stephen does look
closer to you now than I do. That's true, Ye, Clo.
I feel like Vince would make a real he makes
a real con vibe when there's a fucking.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
Yeah, Vince is definitely an emergency call. That's not a
judgment on you, Georgia. But if I had a handle,
i'd injury you.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
And I think I drive like a monster really fast,
so I get you.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
I would not want you driving me, which is what
I'm saying. I have a head injury. I need, I
need my skull protected, I need my brain not scrambled.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
No, Honestly, if I'm going to be honest to both
of you, I would call Jay. I know. That's why
why I didn't fucking out into the mix, because I
know when give me or Stephen, even though he lives
on the motherfucking west Side, you call him, and I'm
hurt by that.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
I call Stephen and say I think I have a
head injury, and he'd go.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Oh, are you okay?

Speaker 2 (35:18):
Steven's like, Stephen's like, I'm medium on your on this.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Anyway, Okay, let me never goes thank you. Here's here's
what I will say, Nika. For sure he is You're.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Tried and true, Stephen. But I think I would wait.
I would save it for a technical issue because the
time that my cable went out, Stephen was so like
literally reporting moment by moment, because when you're when your
WiFi goes out, you don't know what the fuck is
going on.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
And he was just like, I checked, I checked, cable.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Down, dot com, was Twitter for fucking whatever your horizon
or whatever it is, and.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Here's the news report, yeah, by minute by minute. He's
right there.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
I think we all have different Like I think I'm
good in an emergency because I was raised by two
first responders, So I'm just like, let's just get this done.
Everyone's had stitches in their skull, don't worry. But like
that's literally who I was raised by.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
So and then yeah, and I think for my ego,
can you tell me about what my positive contribution would be.
I think we'll be keeping you awake by talking your
ear off as I'm doing right now.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
You I here's the thing, if it were if I
made the call to Vince, I would.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
Want you to be in the car.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Oh for what, because for that exact reason for the
It's okay, I think you would definitely hold my hand
and pat the top of it.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
You know what I mean? Like, I think you would
be very you know, checking things, and then.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Like Vince would go park while you would walk in
with me. You know what, I'm doing a lot of
that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
I'm really good at going to the front and saying,
my friend has a fucking concussion and I just saw
a guy with a toe injury going before her.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yeap, you throw some elbows. I think you'd be a
great patient representative in the waiting room at the emergency room.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Its notes for you because your head would be andrew
and so you couldn't. Okay, thank you. I appreciate it.
I needed that otherwise there I've been sulking all day.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
I was going to make a joke and say I
would call you for a restaurant emergency, but I don't.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings. I just try
to be funny, and that is you had a restaurant emergency.
Let's face it. I think you're good at that. Where
should we go?

Speaker 2 (37:28):
I call you every time my dad comes into town
and beg you to go out with me every night,
because that's all he wants.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
I really am good in a restaurant emergency. It is
my passion. And when people you socializing. I feel like
I'm a it's a compliment. I'm good at socializing. Thank you. Well,
just kind of like you're good at a dinner or
like a family. Oh you know, I thought you meant
like a restaurant recommendation. Well that too, but usually it's
like you should go too. Well, I appreciate that. All right, great,

(37:56):
this is like this has given me a week of
boost We should do more boosts, corners.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
I'm gonna write this down. What do you can you
remind us you have a ghost corner? What do you
want yours to be?

Speaker 1 (38:08):
Your thing would be? Oh, I know if I'm having
a this happened a couple of weeks ago. I'm having
a fucking I had a panic attack. I'm not fucking
doing well. I feel my instinct is to quit it
all and just live in the forest. Mm hm, can
you help me the end?

Speaker 2 (38:29):
That's when you'd call me. That's when I did call
you two weeks ago, remember, nice, Yes, I do, Yes,
I do. That's kind of yeah. It's the idea that
people have panic attack these days and don't immediately go of.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
Course, I'm having a panic attack.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
This shit sucks, like everything is crazy, and I think
things are so crazy right now.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
Yeah, but thank you.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
I'm glad to be I'm glad to be that person.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
Well, the an album was it's like, you talk to
you or pour some alcohol on it, which is a
great way to fix it. But try calling a friend first.
It's like, who wants to be a millionaire? You have,
that's right, you go into our options, take a shot
of vodka, call a friend. I don't know what the
other two.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Are well because also, and we've said this before, but
the shot of vodka freezes it. It doesn't fix it, It
just pauses it in time. And then when you're sober
now you have more problems and that one's still there,
which sucks. And I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
Because honestly, I tell you this with the true heart
of an alcoholic.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
I would not be saying this if it didn't almost
end my life.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
But then I was forced to. I was forced to
face it.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Because it really did feel like it solved problems for me.
But that's because I didn't have all my problems counted up.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
Well, I was, I think top and til this point,
I've been really scared. Well, first of all, yes, there's
nothing to I didn't I wasn't ready to. I knew
that if I stopped pouring alcohol and the problems they'd
have to face them. And the past year my therapist
has been trying to get me to do that, and
I was like, I can't. I can't. I can't because
I wasn't ready to do that. And then something changes

(40:08):
and you do it and it sucks, but you do it.
But what I wanted to say, there's this book called
The Unexpected Joy Being Sober by Catherine Gray, which is
my new fall Asleep book, and she and I'm sure
this is an AA quote once I start drinking I finish,
which has kind of hit me really hard when I

(40:30):
heard it, or it's like, I've never heard that before. Okay,
I think, I'm sure it's an AA thing, but uh yeah,
that's a good one. Another one I heard, if I
can say it, by my friend Emily Gordon, and I'm
sure she got this from a self help book too,
is when things stop giving you gifts, it's time to
walk away, which I think is beautiful as well.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
And if you're drunk all the time, you can't tell
a gift from a pile of shit. So let's also
be aware of how our perspective changes when that part changes,
because we think we know everything and that we're just
drinking and it's just this kind of additional thing, when

(41:12):
in fact it's clouding, covering and changing the point of
view of everything as we do it.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Yeah, and then when you.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Stop doing it, as you well know, things go in
a different direction, which is also upsetting and creates problems,
you know what I mean, there's a real issue with it.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
Yeah, it's a period of turmoil, but it's for a
purpose and you can get through it, and that's the
only way life can get better.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Also, turmoil isn't always bad. And also, even though this
sounds stupid, bad things aren't always bad Because we need muscles.
We need to lift heavy, hard things for ourselves to
get the muscles so we can do it again and
next time it's not as.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Big of a deal.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
There's progress made when effort is made that maybe not
be measurable, isn't measurable as you're doing it. But you know,
in six months, in two years, in whatever, you can
look back and go, I was really different before and
I'm you know, and now I've changed.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
Because of this thing.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
But the only way to that change is through like
the dark tunnel of what the fuck?

Speaker 1 (42:22):
Yeah, you got to get pepper sprayed to appreciate your
vision and.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
To make it so that you don't pepper spray people left,
right and centered just because you feel like it.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
Quit pepper spraying yourself, and you will see clearly if.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
You could get step out of that strong wind with
your bear mace.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
Oh I got that.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
I've pepper sprayed myself because I was walking and I
had my pepper spray out because it was night, and
I was like, I'm going to make sure this works,
sprayed it.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
In front of me, continue to walk. Met my friend
at the bar could barely see. It wasn't bad, but
it was bad enough to be hilarious. It's serious business.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
I mean, that's why when, that's why, when long ago
we wanted to make merch that said pepper spray first,
asked questions later, I was like, this is not a
good thing to put into the world. It's actually not
a good plan.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
It's actable. Also, just let's not be that way. Oh,
isn't this episode the day that we get to announce
something really? Yes, it is.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
We have we have very We've been inching up towards
this for a little while. So many of you might
suspect this already, but today is the day we actually
get to announce it.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Well, this is for the non skippers who have listened
this far. Yes, you've earned this. This is a gift
special for you. Do you want to say it at
the same time? No, go ahead, we're not. I say
a word, you say a word. I say a word.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Stevenswer Let's do some improv exercises.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
And then wrote another book.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
That's right, we finally get to tell you the whole
thing that we were talking about about, the sneak peek
and the paperback that's coming out May eleventh, which it is,
there's a paperback version of Stay Sexy and Don't Get
Murdered that's coming out on May eleventh of this year,
which is basically a month away your birthday, and it
is my birthday, which is you know, one of the
pluses of being in this in the biz is they.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Do stuff like that for you.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
On top of that, there are going to be two
sneak peak bonus chapters in the back of the paperback
from the new book yep, that is coming out.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
That is a whole new thing. Oh and now we
get to announce what the theme is. It's more stories
from our lives, but it is in the theme of
responding to your frickin' letters the most the beautiful letters
you have sentenced for years that we have saved because
we loved them. When we were pitching new ideas, that

(44:58):
just came organically that what if we finally fucking respond
to these I've been to was Ali's idea. It was
definitely our incredible editor, Ali Fisher, who edited our last book,
and so this book was so much easier to write
because we always knew we were in good hands and
then the product as Stay Sex and ok At Murder
was just felt so good that the second book I

(45:20):
think was a little easier but harder because the pandemic.
So they've been pretty sure patient with us, because yes.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
When you're calling your editor and saying sorry, I didn't
finish my chapter, it's just that there was a coup.
You know, you're just in rare air. So so we're
thrilled that we finally get to talk about this, and
we're thrilled a second book is coming out, and we're
really thrilled that you guys and the people who have
written us letters are included, and these are letters that

(45:51):
we've gotten at meet and greets that people have sent
us in the regular mail all over.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
We basically just kind.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Of pulled together a collection of just different letters to answer.
So I think, I think it's going to be a
pretty cool and different and exciting book. Fucking hoay, very exciting,
and we're excited to finally tell you. So yeah, get
the paperback and then you can get the sneak peek
of the brand of two chapters of the brand new book.

(46:20):
So we're doing a quilt episode this week and my
minus first, as apparently Steven said, and so my story
this week is from the legendary twenty nineteen London show
that I believe through word of mouth we found out
that Florence Welt of Florence in the Machine was in

(46:42):
attendance and everyone was insane out.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Of their minds about it. It was very cool.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
I mean, I think a lot of cool people were
in attendance, but that was the one that people spotted
in the audience and then more tweeting at.

Speaker 1 (46:55):
Us about.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
And my story from this it's twenty nineineteen London, and
so I did the Bride and the Bath story about
killer George Joseph Smith. Okay, I thought, since we've never
done it before, I should cover the bride's.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
In the bath and that's the murder and Bigamus George
Joseph Smith. Again.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
My sources are Wikipedia, murder Pedia, and of course the
legendary Kent Live News unbelievable source of information. Okay, this starts.
This is the same time period as yours.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Look at that.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Basically, it starts January third, nineteen fifteen, and Division Detective
Inspector Arthur Neil receives an intriguing letter from a man
named Joseph Crossley and Blackpool. I hear it's like Atlantic
city there, that's what That's.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
What April told me.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
Yeah, good times.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Sounds fun and drunk. Yeah, sounds like you can get
what was the a drunken I'll forget it. You know
what I was gonna say? Find it where heavy drinking nightmare?
Are you a heavy.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
Drinking night mayor come on down to Blackpool or up,
come on over to Blackpool.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
So okay.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
So Joseph Crossley says that he's writing about the death
of a twenty five year old woman named Alice Burnham Smith.
So this is Alice and so basically a year before
on December.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
In December, I'm sorry screwed this up.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
A year before, newly what Alice Smith suddenly died while
taking a bath in the rental house that the Crossley's own,
and her husband of two months they were newlyweds, George,
had been the one who found her, and so Crossley
in this letter include it's a clipping that's from Alice's
Corners report, and he also encloses a second clipping and

(49:05):
that's from an issue of the News of the World. Oh,
it's one of your great newspapers over here that respects,
respects everybody and loves privacy and really holds the story
until they get all the correct information.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
Journalism. I'm very familiar with that now.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
So essentially, Margaret is found dead in the bathtub, and
the second clipping is about a woman named Margaret Lloyd
who on the evening December eighteenth, nineteen fourteen, went and
stayed in a boarding house with her husband John Lloyd,
at fourteen Bismarck Road in Highgate, London. So sure love

(49:53):
your cemetery. So that night they're planning dinner and John
has to go out to buy some tomatoes he sees
their landlord stops buying and he's like, I'm going out
to buy some tomatoes. The landlord's like, I don't care
about you, which is rude. Here's Margaret Lloyd. She wore

(50:17):
that hat all the time. Every hat in this time
period was fucked.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
Yeah, okay, it's a good outfit though. Okay.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
So when John comes back from buying tomatoes, he finds
his new wife Margaret dead in the bathtub. An inquest
is held on January first, nineteen fifteen. Her death is
ruled an accidental death by drowning. So Joseph Crossley basically explains,
these two deaths are almost exactly a year apart, and
they're so similar that they he believes they must be
connected somehow. And the first one happened in his like

(50:51):
rental home, so he's very connected to Alice's death, and
now he sees it's happened again, and he's asking Inspector
Neil to please look in to these into these deaths.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
And then he says, my wife made me write this letter.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Because she was yes and og murderina, God bless her soul.
So the next day, January fourth, nineteen fifteen, Inspector Neil
goes to the Lloyd's boarding house at fourteen Bismarck Road
and he meets with the landlord and landlady and they
tell the inspector that when the Lloyds first arrived that

(51:29):
the first thing that John did was go straight to
the bathroom and examine the bathtub.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
It's very of a foremost concern to him. I do
that too, though, Yeah, you're actually like that.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
It was only after he found it satisfactory that they
agreed to rent the place.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
He's like, this looks like a good place for murder,
I mean to live. I mean.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
So they then bring the inspector in and show him
that bathtub.

Speaker 5 (52:00):
There it is.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
I would have nope that one. He yepped it.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
So so of course the landlady thought that John's interest
in the bathtub was strange at the time, but she didn't.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Read too deeply into it.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
The tub is much smaller than Inspector Neil thought it
would be, and the fact that it was only filled
three quarters of the way up when Missus Lloyd's body
was found, and it makes it hard for Inspector Neil
to believe that this was an actual case of accidental drowning.
So he goes back and reads the Corners report and

(52:40):
finds out that her death was listed as accidentally drowned
through heart failure when in the bathtub, he.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
Just changes the cause of death. That just makes it no.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
No, he sees that it wasn't listed as drowning, it
was like heart failure, so there was a little more
to it. So then he he's eat now more skeptical.
So he gets a hold of the corner one doctor Bates,
and he asked doctor Bates or there were any signs
of violence on missus Lloyd's body. Bates says there were not,

(53:13):
aside from a small bruise above her left elbow, but
he does say that he found it strange that mister
Lloyd expressed almost no feelings of grief when she died,
and he says Lloyd bought the cheapest coffin possible for
his young wife, and once she was buried, he'd reported
to have said, thank goodness, that's over.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
What the fuck right out loud, Jesus, don't talk, just
don't talk. Okay, Yeah, that's terrible.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
So now the inspector knows he's onto something. He keeps
digging and he finds out that just three hours before
her death, Missus Lloyd had visited her lawyer and made
a will. In it, she left everything to her husband.
Then she withdrew her entire savings. I'll come to take
it home and take a bath with it.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
I don't know, well, she can watch it and redeposit it.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
A week later, on January twelfth, nineteen fifteen, Inspector Neil
gets a call from his new corner friend, doctor Bates,
who tells him that he's just received an inquiry from
the Yorkshire Insurance Company about Missus Lloyd. So, apparently, three
days before her death, Missus Lloyd had taken out a
life insurance policy on herself. No, I don't do it

(54:32):
for seven hundred pounds the equivalent of sixty eight thousand
pounds in today's money, and this soul beneficiary on that policy.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
The bathtub.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
I know it's new, but I love it. Why it's
her husband, mister John Boyle.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
Oh huh, oh wow.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
I wonder if anyone's ever screamed at the top of
their lamps. Okay, so now, Inspector Neil asked doctor Bates, please,
he says, delay any reply to the insurance company, give
me a sec He calls up Blackpool Police to find
out the details of the death of Alice Smith.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
All right, the first one I talked about.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
It turns out that her story is identical to the
lead up of the death of Margaret Lloyd. Her husband
also inspected the new home's bathtub before they moved in,
and missus Smith also took out an insurance policy just
before her death, also naming her husband as the sole beneficiary.
So Inspector Neil calls Doctor Bates back and says, go

(55:34):
ahead and tell the insurance.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
Company that they can pay him.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
And he goes to the insurance company and basically sets
up a stakeout and he waits for John Lloyd to
come and collect his money. So on February first, nineteen fifteen,
a man matching the description of mister Lloyd arrives at
the Yorkshire Insurance Company offices and Inspector Neil stops him
and asks if he's John Lloyd, and the man says yes,

(56:00):
And then he says, oh, are you also George Smith?

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Gotcha?

Speaker 2 (56:04):
And the man's like but pish posh, absolutely not, until
the inspector threatens to take him in for questioning on
suspicion of bigamy, and then the man finally admits his
true identity. He is George Joseph Spitt Smith. Inspector Neil
arrests him on the spot. So here's his mugshot.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
George Joseph Smith. He looks like my guy kinda. He
does a little well.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
It feels like maybe they just had one guy take
all the pictures back, or maybe there was a single
male model.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
There was one. Look. He also has a bit of
a shy lah booth field here. I see it, I
totally see it.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
Yeah, okay, George Joseph Smith. He was born on January eleventh,
eighteen seventy two, and bethanal Green.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
He's this, Oh my god, it's so fucking green there.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
He's the son of an insurance agent, foreshadowing Growing up.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
He's known as a troublemaker.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
In eighteen eighty one, when he is nine years old,
he's sent to reformatory at Gravesend.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
Is that the good reformatory?

Speaker 2 (57:19):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (57:20):
He's serving time for theft and swindling at night. He
is a nine year old. That's kind of cute. City
up pre pubescent.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
British child crime is the most adorable crimes.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Break you, little urchins. That's what they called street urchins.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
Yes, So when he's twenty four, he uh, he meets
a woman.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
We'll call her.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
She doesn't have a name in any of the research.
We'll call her Helen.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
We'll call her Helen Mirron.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
He convinces her to steal money from her employers and
give it to him. Then he takes that money and
uses it to open a bakery in Leicester.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
That's nice, that's a nice churnn Cidy got. He gets caught.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
He has to go to jail for a year. After
he gets out of jail, he stays in Lester. He
changes his name to Oliver George Love and then he
marries a woman named Caroline Thornhill. A year after that,
he also marries another woman.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Can't do that, let's see, it is illegal, he just
can't and like uncool.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
Yeah, this other woman he married didn't have a name,
so we'll call her Judy Deutch. So now he has
bigamy added to his long list of offenses. So shortly
after this illegal marriage, he George aka Oliver George Love
and his original wife Carolyn.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
They moved to.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
London and she gets work as a maid in a
couple different houses. He coerces her to steal money from
her employers and give it to him, and she's eventually caught,
of course, and she goes to jail, and as soon
as she is released, she rats on her husband and
he's arrested in January of nineteen oh one, and he

(59:21):
serves two years for these crimes. When he gets out
in nineteen oh three, Caroline's like, oh, you're out of jail.
I'm moving to Canada. Everybody thought Canada.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Was the place to be back then. Oh so.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
George, he goes back to the old fake wife, Judy Dench,
and he stays with her just long enough to kind
of re establish trust so that he can steal her
life savings and then leave her again. So then in
June of nineteen oh eight, he meets and marys, a
widow from Worthing named Florence Wilson, and together they moved

(01:00:04):
to Camden and sure, yep, everybody's represented tonight. I'm going
to figure out a way to name every single neighborhood
in County okay mm hmm. About a month after their wedding,
he steals thirty pounds from her three thousand pounds in

(01:00:26):
today's money, sells a bunch of her stuff and ghosts
her too.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Then he moves to Bristol.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Yeah drunk, we get how you are now, won't stop hooting,
must be from Bristol.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Party on.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Okay, he moves to there and he puts an ad
in the paper, puts now in the paper.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
Housekeeper.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
A woman named Edith Pelgar applies for the job, and
less than a month after he leaves his last fake wife,
on July thirtieth, nineteen oh eight, he marries Edith.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Oh my goodness, yes, he must have game.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Like imagine the charisma of that mustache man, like this
small tige, just hyper focused attention.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
You're the only one in the world.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
She's like, oh my god, you will not believe this guy.
He likes all in the same chamber music I like.
He totally thinks I should have the right to vote.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
He's really into my pockets.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
Okay, So during the next four years of their marriage,
he disappears on Edith for months at a time. He
tells her that he needs to travel for his job,
which he claims is selling antiques.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
So he's the original antiques road.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
Show and so sorry and so so sorry, love it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
I love it, but really.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
Actually what he's doing is meat and marrying almost every
fucking woman he runs into. Wow, yes, and then stealing
their money and ditching them and taking that money and
bringing it back to Bristol.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
What about those poor antiques.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Nope, it's too much hooting Bristol like Bristol drank on
the train. Oh, he's easy. I don't want to get
jumped by Bristol. Tonight, come on, okay. In October. In

(01:02:38):
October nineteen oh nine, he takes the incredibly different alias
George Rose Smith and he marries a woman named Sarah Freeman.
He immediately steals four hundred pounds from her and disappears
back to Bristol.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
Honey, I'm home.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
That's what the wife does. She's so stoked to see him.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Everybody cheer.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
He's like, oh my god, look I got you this
really meaningful book of poems and she's like, oh, it's
this property of Sarah Freeman in here.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
That what Yeah, that's antique. Why do you have to
be picky? Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
So basically that was his bigomy run that he went on,
and this is what the inspectors found out. So now
we're back to current times. George Smith has been identified
his whole past has been discovered. He's in custody. Inspector Neil,
now enlist the help of who's this pathologist? Doctor Bernard
Spillsbury crossover character in both our stories.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
Fuck, that's why I said, That's why I made that noise.
I remember? Has that ever happened? Check this shit out?
You want to see doctor Spillsbury? Hot? What's up? It?
Feel ready? It feel ready?

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
It feel ready?

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Ah? Many?

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
What I was doing all day while I was researching
the story, singing Adell songs to doctor Pillsbury.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Spillsbury, I said, he already, he looks like he's aging
in reverse. Who he looks like the old man from
Thanksgivingsbury came, Oh my god, and he knew somehow. Let's

(01:04:32):
just pretend we should have reached out to touch him.
He's a ghost, the ghost of Thanksgiving.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
So this guy must have been fucking famous back then.
Ye okay, So Spillsbury's on the case. He exhumes Margaret
Lloyd's body and he checks it again for marks of violence,
but he just finds the same bruise that the first
corner found, and then two tiny marks, but nothing is
enough to prove that Margaret Lloyd died suspiciously. He then

(01:05:04):
tests her body for traces of poison. Those results come
back negative. There aren't any signs of heart or circulatory problems.
So what is clear to him, though, is that Margaret
Lloyd's death was sudden, an instant. So when the news
starts to hear about these two young women's mysterious baths
of deaths, they nicknamed the case the Brides.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
And the Baths.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
So on February eighth, nineteen fifteen, Inspector Neil receives a
call from the chief of police in the small seaside
town of herne Bay in Kent.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
There are much more. You're no Bristol.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
Okay, they have to do it, they have to.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
I feel so bad that the persons sitting in front
of they hate your godly.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
Easy, easy guys a best friends.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
So the Herne Bay police chief read about the two
other mysterious bathtub deaths and realized that he had had
a case three years prior that was exactly the same
as the two Brides and the bath murders that he
had read about, and he'd investigated the death of a
woman named Bessie Monday. Okay, oh, I don't have a
picture everse sorry all right.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
Really led up to it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
In nineteen twelve, which was a year before Alice Smith's death,
a man named Henry Williams and his wife of two years,
Bessie Monday Williams rent a house together in Herne Bay,
and it doesn't have a bathtub.

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
So mister Williams buys one guy, Yeah, you need to
change it up a little fucking bit. He doesn't know that.
Don't kill people, but but if veryanna the two uh.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
This couple met in nineteen ten, after Bessie's father's death,
when he had left her an inheritance of twenty five
hundred pounds, which is two hundred thousand dollars.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
In today's money. So he's like, I'm in love with you.
Now I'm in love with your purse.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
So shortly after they move in, Henry Williams takes his
wife to a man named doctor Frank French, and he
tells the doctor that his wife has had an epileptic
eptic seizure.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
Bessie's like, I actually just kind.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
Of have a headache. No, I don't know what he's
talking about. Doctor Frank gives her medicine for the headache.
Then Henry calls doctor French again says Bessie has had
another seizure. So doctor French comes and checks on her again.
She's fine. He tells Henry, I'll be back in the morning,
you know, just to check on her again. But before

(01:07:49):
he can show up at their house the next morning,
which is July thirteenth, nineteen twelve, Henry calls doctor French
first and tells him Bessie has drowned in the bathtub
in his brand new bathtom So doctor French comes over
to their house and finds Bessie in the bath.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
Shit, this is hard.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
Her head is submerged under the bathwater and her legs
are sticking out the end. He basically Doctor French rules
her death in accidental drowning after an epileptic attack because
that's what he's been led to believe has happened. So
Inspector Neil finds out that not only did Bessie Monday

(01:08:28):
Williams have a large inheritance, but she'd also taken out
a life insurance policy just five days before her death.
So Henry Williams is awarded an insurance payout of twenty
five one hundred or two and seventy pounds, which is
sixty eight thousand pounds today.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
I love them. I love telling you what the old
money is and then them new. I love it. It's
really sad, it says money.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
When time passes, money goes up, you guys. For the
next few weeks after Whover eight the nineteen fifteen, Inspector
Neil and doctor Spilbury they look at all the evidence
around these desks and they try to determine how each
woman actually died. So, for Bessie Monday, she was five

(01:09:14):
foot seven and so her head would have been far
above the water line in a five foot bathtub. And
then if she were having a seizure and her limbs
were thrashing around, that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
Would have actually kept her head above the.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
Water line, and they also would have been more water
on the floor, which there was none reported. So at
dawns on Spilbury that if doctor French's report is accurate
and Bessie's head is underwater and her feet were sticking out,
it was possible mister Williams could have pulled her underwater

(01:09:48):
by her feet. So he poses a theory to Inspector
Neil that mister Williams may have been in the bathroom
while Bessie was bathing and came over and played around
like jokingly and lovingly with her feet and then when
she's not expecting it, suddenly yank them upward and that
would cause the tub water to rush into her nose

(01:10:08):
and mouth and it would be the forceful enough to
make her lose consciousness and then she would drown under
the water and that would leave no marks. So to
test that doctor's theory, Inspector Neil hires several experienced female divers.

Speaker 1 (01:10:26):
Now he's just fucking around, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
But also several like it's nineteen fifteen where women weren't
allowed to leave the fucking.

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
House and it's just like find me divers now, So
he does.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
They do tests on these women to test out and
see if this is actually what they think it is.
And first they try to hold them underwater, but anyone struggling.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
If the woman.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
At that size Bessie's size what struggled against being held
down there, they would have had to use forced back
on her that would have left marks on her body.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
So they know that that's out.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
Then they drive Spilbury's foot yank theory on one of
the women, and even though she knows it's about to
happen to her. When it happens, she goes under an
immediately lose loses consciousness and they can't It takes over
half an hour for them to revive her.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
What a bummer, Yeah, she's like, what No, she told
me I was.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
I thought this was a fucking diving thing, Like I
wanted to see some fish and hang out in some
murky water.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
What's this bathtub shit? Doctor Spillsbury's kind of hot. Spillsbury's
looking good. It's Spilbury. Actually, I've added an essen. I
don't know why.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
Im okay. So they realize if she, knowing it's gonna happen,
is unconscious, then then the average woman who thinks she's
just hanging out with her newlywed husband under her feet,
who's a foot fetishist, then they wouldn't They wouldn't have
had any any chance. So, thanks to doctor Spilbury, Inspector

(01:12:13):
Neil finally has an mo o. So George Smith's trial
begins on June twenty second, nineteen fifteen.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
English. A lot at the time dictates he can only.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
Be tried for the murder of Bessie Monday, but the
prosecution's allowed to mention the other deaths of his other
wives to establish his pattern of behavior. Of course, his lawyer,
George's lawyer argues the unfairness of this, including to the judge,
but the judge overrules him and all three deaths are
cited in the prosecution's argument, and on July first, nineteen fifteen,

(01:12:44):
much like in your story, the jury takes just twenty
minutes to find George Smith guilty of the murder of
Bessie Monday.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
He's sentenced to death.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
Yeah, Bristol, and on argument on August thirteenth, nineteen fifteen,
George Smith is hung for the murder of Bessie Monday.
And that is the highly repetitive and sometimes hard to
follow a story of the murders of the brides and

(01:13:13):
the bath.

Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
Night Jop. We did it, We did it. Oh, I
put my shoes back on. Okay, that was gruesome. That
was amazing. London is a fucking awesome crowd always oops, yes,
especially when Florence is in the audience. I could you

(01:13:38):
hear her laughing?

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
Yeah, it's always big time when we're in in England.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
So so many good candy bars. What you got this? Okay?
This week I'm doing. We were in Saint Louis at
the Powell Symphony Hall in December of fucking twenty seventeen.
Oh shit, those heady days. We were three years in
first tour, oh seventeen. Okay, see you remember so much shit.

(01:14:04):
This is this incredible, crazy banana story of Pam hup
and hey, guys, stay tuned for an update on what
happened post me doing this story. So enjoy guys really quick.

Speaker 2 (01:14:22):
Just in case you won these tickets in a radio
raffle or something like that. This is a true crime
podcast that's also a comedy podcast, which sometimes is a
slightly difficult.

Speaker 1 (01:14:31):
Combination for people.

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
So if you can't give us the benefit of the doubt,
get the fuck out.

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
I'm kidding. What if my uncle got up and left.
My uncle Michael just leaves, my uncle Michael storms out.
I'm joking. That was the first joke of the night.
Now you know, Now you know what to expect. Well, okay,
here we go. Okay, here's who I'm doing, and you

(01:15:01):
fucking murderinos almost just ruined my surprise because I'm doing
pan Hop. Pam Hop. Is that the lady? Is that
the picture you have? I have it up there. Yeah, okay,
I don't ask them about it. Don't ask them about it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
I thought you seemed because I have never seen that
woman before, And I got, really, if you're a murderino,
a true crime, a personal semi aficionado, when you look
at a picture and everybody else knows who it is
and you've never seen that mug shop before, like, I
started to get real upset.

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
And she just fucking sanitary napkins on her neck and
looks like, but I'm gonna explain that to you, And
so I wasn't gonna be like, oh, that's so crazy,
what are those?

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
And I was just afraid that I had missed a
gaysy level person in my in my troubles.

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
I'm really bad. I should have played along or been like, dun't,
I'm gonna do her. But I just didn't know what
to do. So I just stood there instead of it,
I like it, thought about my stuffed You.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
Know, you distracted me by pulling cutlets out of your dress.
It's so funny because I've we've been together now for
two years straight, day and night, night and day.

Speaker 1 (01:16:12):
Huh, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:16:16):
I didn't notice that Georgia's Bras's eyes went up like
four cups in there's two.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
Minutes, two cup sizes bigger because I still had a
little stuff them to feel. Fucking Jessica Simpson's idea of
what a woman should look like, which I refuse to
fuck and an I got this dress for free, so
who cares? And he's not going into her pocket all.

Speaker 2 (01:16:37):
I really wish that I could sing a Jessica Simpsons
song right now, but I would just I wanted to
go into I'm not a girl, not yet a woman, and.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
That's not accurate.

Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
And I also don't know how that one goes either,
So forget it. Let's forget it all.

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
All right, Well, haven't we talked about murder and stuff?
Sounds good? Okay, Okay, let's art in Troy, Missouri. Betsy Fia.
She's this warm hearted, lovely, bubbly woman, tons of friends.
She's awesome, Everyone loves her. She has a husband named

(01:17:11):
Russ and two daughters from a previous marriage. When in
January twenty ten, at forty years old, she learns she
has breast cancer. So after affect on a chemo and amosectomy,
she's declared in remission and she and her husband plan
a celebration of life cruise. Want to see them? Yeah,
let's see how this works. Does this work? No, sin

(01:17:37):
this work? Yeah? Oh right, yeah, that's a sorry we
didn't say Stephen's not here. Yeah, I'm good. Play that
up because he can hear you right now. He's the
first one to listen to it. Act upset. We should
start getting a pet cube and have Stephen like pet
cubed and what's that. It's like, it's basically how a

(01:18:00):
buying your pet? You can also you can also dispense
treats from your phone through the pet cube. Yeah. He's
just sitting there by the pet cube like this. He
loves his muscle. How would we dispense little little tiny kittens? Kitten? Okay, okay,

(01:18:21):
that's so that's Betsy and Russ. But then before the
cruise they find out in November twenty eleven, forty two
years old. Now, Betsy learns that the cancer is fucking back,
you know. It's a bummer, spreads to her liver and
she only has a few years to live even with treatment.
But she's this like upbeat person and she's like, fuck
that shit, We're going on the cruise instead, and I'm
gonna fucking swim with dolphins and they go on this

(01:18:41):
like celebration of life cruise. What our life is? It's beautiful.
So one of Betsy's friends who isn't on the trip
but comes around after Betsy was diagnosed with cancer, was
a woman named Pam Hupp. So yes, yeah, I saw
the place, Matt, I know what's up. Yes, there's this
thing we do for one of the Jewish holidays that

(01:19:03):
I can't remember. Maybe my uncle knows where we tell
a story about the King Hayman and what a piece
of shit he was, and whenever his name is, whenever
p thank you, thank you for being a better j
than I am, and please keep it up. Yeah, whenever
the name Hayman gets said in the in the story,
everyone goes boom and stomps their feet. And then you

(01:19:24):
have those noise makers and you do that I should
have so look under your seat everyone. I just feel
like every time I say the word how, don't you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:35):
You imagine if we gave up noisemakers during the show,
like the TV producer and me just had seven fucking
heart attacks in a row.

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
No collect us right now, Oh my god, And then
you went through and collected each one from everyone yelling
at them. Can I just sorry? Sidebar?

Speaker 2 (01:19:54):
Sidebar, But it's one time when I worked on TV show,
they had loaded in the audience the warm up comic.
You can't they don't have the volume up in the
control rooms. So we're just watching the warm up comic
kind of walk around.

Speaker 1 (01:20:06):
Do her whole thing.

Speaker 2 (01:20:07):
And then they're getting ready to actually start shooting, and
all those things are very like very time sensues. So
it's a four o'clock shoot, you have to be ready
at three fifty nine. And so when they throw all
the volumes up to get ready to start shooting, there's
this crackling sound, and of course the sound guy goes
fucking berserk. And they're sensitive men. There sounds sensitive there.

(01:20:28):
They need to be, it's their job.

Speaker 1 (01:20:30):
This guy comes.

Speaker 2 (01:20:31):
Flying in, he's like, we've got a major problem, and
it was like this whole thing and then everyone's like,
hold on, hold on, let's just listen for a second. Well,
it turned out that the warm up comic had passed
out butterscotch candies to the whole audience, so every person
had a piece of cellophane they were crinkling in their hand,
every like one hundred people were just like.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
To all these mics that were everywhere. It was the funny.

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
I was crying laughing, but nobody else thought it was
funny at all.

Speaker 1 (01:21:01):
And this has been Hollywood minute. Well, this story doesn't
go like that, Okay? Did I tell that story? Right? At?
The Worst Possible part Period's always the worst. It's always
This podcast is called the Worst Possible Partner. So Pam,
she and Betsy had met ten years earlier when they

(01:21:22):
worked together in an insurance company. Pam is eleven years
older than Betsy, also has a husband too, kids, and
she's worked in the insurance industry for a long time.
A red flag, right, yeah, don't work in the insurance industry.
So she's kind of a busy body, gets in everyone's business,

(01:21:44):
you know what I mean. So Betsy and Pam had
been friends when they worked together, but they had parted
ways when Betsy's diagnosed with cancer, she comes back around
is like, I'm going to be your trauma friend. What's up?
You know what I mean? Did you say trauma friend? Yeah?
You know the friends that are like, oh, I'm really
good at this that it like drinks on a Tuesday night,
I can fucking be there when you're going through chemo.

(01:22:04):
Like for people like that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
Very true, which is like they are either the best
person in the world or a total sociopath.

Speaker 1 (01:22:13):
Dang doctor, switch one. You'll never guess what even did.

Speaker 2 (01:22:18):
Georgia went on to tell the most uplifting story, and.

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
They're like, okay, your turn.

Speaker 2 (01:22:22):
What the fuck, don't change it can change the show, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:22:28):
So she starts coming. Pam starts coming to Betsy's chemo
treatments every treatment, and even when Pam when Betsy's like, listen,
don't come this time. I'm gonna be my old friend's
gonna be in town. We want some time together, she
fucking shows up. Anyways, She's like railroads this shit. Then
on Tuesday, December twenty seven, twenty eleven, Pam so she
shows up, insisting that she'd be the one to drive

(01:22:51):
Betsy home after the chemo treatment, but Betsy was like, nope,
I'm going to my mom's house. So Pam's like, all right,
leaves and then shows up later to Betsy's momhouse and
is like I'm driving you home. What's happening? Yeah, right,
So Betsy's like, okay, fine, drive me home. If it's
not important for you. I don't know she might have
said that. I'd like to think she did. As for

(01:23:14):
rest a husband, that day, he works at home like normal,
fun till five. Then he goes out to his standard
Tuesday night game night. Okay, so he goes to game night.
They hang out, and at about nine o'clock he leaves.
On his way home, he stops that, of course, at
Arby's drive through. Arby's sure, that's like, oh, you've been
smoking pot? Okay, great, yes, yes, got it. I relate

(01:23:37):
to you. Why would you ever eat that instead? It's delicious?

Speaker 2 (01:23:41):
It is so then he's also convenient, Okay, i'm.

Speaker 1 (01:23:48):
He walks inside the house at close to nine forty
finds his wife, Betsy, lying on the floor in blood.
He only sees three wounds, and so from those wounds
he assumes that she had killed herself. Oh I know.
So he calls nine one one and hysterically says, my
wife killed herself. But that looks bad for him later

(01:24:09):
because when the police come, they're like, what the fuck, dude?
She has fifty five fucking stablings? What what is wrong
with you?

Speaker 2 (01:24:17):
Fuck?

Speaker 1 (01:24:17):
Yeah? Yeah, So, but most of them are hidden by
her clothing, so he didn't know. So a search turned
up Russ's slippers thrown into the back of the closet
and their blood stain on the top. But he doesn't
have any blood on him. Of course, the police initially
suspect him, but his timeline from before he found Betsy

(01:24:38):
was corroborated by his four friends that he was probably
smoking pot with his phone, was paying in the right
fucking places where he was where he said he was.
He had an army's receipt that he as we all
do through in the back of his fucking car. I
save mine, like I'm going to bring him to the accountant.
He's so ridiculous. I'm just like, thank you, pull this up.

Speaker 2 (01:25:00):
It in this part of my wallet for four days,
and then throw them out later.

Speaker 1 (01:25:04):
I leave those receipts. I kind of hide, And then
I hate when I have like the straw wrappers on
the floor of my car, because everyone knows that you
just fucking went through drive through. Oh yeah, and you're
garbage person. Yeah, oh girl. Yes, The straw wrappers to me,
are more telling than the receipts.

Speaker 2 (01:25:21):
What about the fucking disgusting next day French fry smell.

Speaker 1 (01:25:25):
We're just like, why am I doing? I?

Speaker 2 (01:25:28):
So? Oh, there's a new I was like what, Sorry,
that was too real.

Speaker 1 (01:25:34):
There's a new Carl's Junior. I should have finished it. Wait,
can I just say this really quick?

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
I just tweeted this the other days, but I went
to feeled a shame. I went to McDonald's the other night,
and this one in la it's a double lane, so
somebody can be ordering over here, and then you can
be ordering over here, and then you zipper formation back
into It's amazing. You've got to come to la if
only for that.

Speaker 1 (01:25:56):
And also, don't worry, we're going to white Castle tomorrow.
One hundred got to never been, never been, never had it.
Let's talk about murder some more, but really quick. Yeah.
The guy that wrung me up, Yeah. First of all
was the most beautiful teen I've ever seen. Oh cut

(01:26:16):
that that's the that's gonna fucking blow this shit up.

Speaker 2 (01:26:19):
Secondly, and I thought this was very meaningful. When he
went to give me my change, he came all the
way out of that window like fucking rapunzel. I was like, hey, hey,
is this happening with us?

Speaker 1 (01:26:33):
Are we gonna do this thing?

Speaker 2 (01:26:34):
It was amazing. Okay, sorry, I'd stopped your whole story
to brag.

Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
I'm sorry, Okay, sorry, Okay. So he had his receipt
matched and all of that, him leaving Arby's matched the
drive it would have taken him to get home and
call nine one one by nine point forty, and the
autopsy show that she would have been dead by then
for at least an hour. And there's video of him.

(01:27:00):
So there's surveillance video where he's going wearing the same
clothes he wore when the police found him, without blood
on him. So it's not like he could have gone home,
killed her and then not had blood in the same
clothes because he was wearing the same clothes. You know
what I'm saying. I sure do you know? Basic fucking
police work, the kind we do every day, the time
we're known for. Meanwhile, Pam's alibi, Let's go back to

(01:27:24):
fucking Pammy. Okay, it's all over the place. She's constantly
changing her story, and she admittedly says she's the last
person to see Betsy alive. So she says that she
had brought Betsy home from her mother's house that she
had insisted on taking her from, and in the driveway,
called Pam's husband and was like, Betsy, say happy Christmas

(01:27:44):
to my husband, which is like, oh, you're establishing a
fucking alibi. What's up right?

Speaker 5 (01:27:49):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
The like, yeah, she was alive when I talked to her.
That thing right, creepy.

Speaker 2 (01:27:54):
Yeah, a grown adult that makes another grown adult say
hi to a grown adults. Get out of there, fucking death,
roll out of that car.

Speaker 1 (01:28:07):
Shit, Hi, what now my face is on your phone.
It's disgusting. I'm gonna break out, no, okay. So then
she says that she dropped She just dropped Betsy off
at seven oh five and left, and then later she's like,
whoa you know, actually I walked her in and then
left and then we wore wait. I went in with
her and she told me to come back to her

(01:28:28):
her bedroom to see a Christmas gift that rest had
given her. And so she keeps changing her story and
it's flimsy.

Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
Like in her mind, she's like, oh, I have this
on me.

Speaker 1 (01:28:37):
I better say I'm in the house.

Speaker 2 (01:28:38):
Yeah, I have this, Like she's putting like cyber evidence
ideas together.

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
Yeah, or she's just a crazy liar, okay. So and
at seven twenty one, Betsy's daughter had tried calling her
and wasn't getting an answer, so we think and she
was expecting that call, so we think that she was
dead by seven twenty one. So if she dropped her
off at seven oh five, there's like this weird window there, Okay,
so uh seven twenty seven records show that then Pam

(01:29:06):
had left and called Betsy and the place like what
the fuck is this? And she's like, well, I called
he when I got home, and it's like, but it
takes you this time to get home, and then the
phone pings and you're like down the street. So all
these inconsistencies about when she had called, all these fucking
wise about it. And then during questioning, Pam says, oh,
by the way, December twenty third, a couple days ago,

(01:29:27):
Betsy made me the beneficiary of her life insurance. Blows
na na.

Speaker 2 (01:29:32):
Ah, yeah, that's weird. She works in the life insurance.
She works in your insurance.

Speaker 1 (01:29:41):
Foreshadowing, uh huh or just shadowing. Pam said it was
because Betsy was worried that Russ and daughters would spend
all the money foolishly, so she's like, listen, I'm gonna
give it to you. Pam, you trauma friend of mine,
but my friend that I don't want to ride from.

(01:30:02):
That's how close we are that I have family in town,
I have close, lifelong friends around.

Speaker 2 (01:30:08):
I'm trying to avoid you at all costs. Take my money,
take my money.

Speaker 1 (01:30:13):
And so she wanted to like parcel it out to
Russ and her daughters. So, okay, Pam is never considered
a suspect with this information? Uh huh known publicly. I
don't know how publicly it was known.

Speaker 2 (01:30:30):
Or socially or policy known policely, policily.

Speaker 1 (01:30:37):
Yes, she must have been very convincing. There's videos, there's tons,
and like there's there's so much of this case that
I can't get to. Otherwise we'd be sitting here for
four hours, those fucking bananas. And there's videos and shold
of her being interrogated, and the cops are like, I
don't know if they're in love with her or what,
or she's got maybe like you know, crazy eyes. Yeah,

(01:30:59):
she's really convincing.

Speaker 2 (01:31:00):
But she's like a rest buttant type of Saint Louis
And they're like beating her information and is that what happened?

Speaker 1 (01:31:06):
And she's like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's what happened, and
like they love her that are getting her like out
of it. Essentially, Yeah, she must have made them cookies
or something. Okay, But so Russ is brought to the
policeation question for thirty six hours without sleep, agrees to
take a polygraph test. Turns out that gave him a
fake one and told him that he failed so he

(01:31:27):
would confess. He didn't confess, but they never told his
defense attorney that this information. Okay. On January fourth, Russell
Reuss is charged with first degree murder of BETSI. Judge
Menemier rules the defense defence counsel Joel Schwartz is not
allowed to eat, to even talk about Pam as a

(01:31:48):
possible suspect, does his argument as to how he didn't
do it, like reasonable doubt. It's this chick who's like
lying about everything. And it's also the Life insurance in person. Right,
this is making sense? Are you following? It's crazy? Yes? Okay,
what more do I have to do with my face?
It's just so fucking crazy? No, No, I get.

Speaker 2 (01:32:09):
I mean it's crazy that they would be like, there's
she got some juice somewhere obviously.

Speaker 1 (01:32:14):
Yeah, because maybe it's in her fuckingpra which that was
a party. But but okay, So then since she okay,
so she's not allowed to talk about Pam as a suspect.
So defense is prohibited from questioning her at all, either

(01:32:37):
in front of the jury or bringing her up as
an alternative suspect. Huh. Meanwhile, since she wasn't a suspect
and Russ was going to the trial detective, the detective's like,
call the insurance company and she's like, no, no, you
can go ahead and let that give her that money.
She's not a suspect. So they let the money go
and give her one hundred and fifty thousand dollars life
insurance policy for the family. And then right before the trial,

(01:32:58):
four days before there like, it looks really bad that
you haven't given any of that money to the daughters,
so you should do it really quickly before the trial starts.
So she puts one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in
a trust for the daughters, and the fifty thousand other dollars,
she says, is in a bunch of other places.

Speaker 2 (01:33:18):
That's for her for her evil amulet fond that she
likes to wear wear around town.

Speaker 1 (01:33:24):
Yes, okay, but but, but but it defense prohibited. Meanwhile,
but d da da okay, Okay, So prosecutor Leah uh aski, Leah,
let's call her, says that of Russ's alibi. Okay, so
this is how she's going to take apart Russ's fucking
concrete is shit alibi. Are you ready for this? Yeah?

(01:33:45):
Those four friends that he got high and hung out
with and played games with, they're all in on the
murder of Betsy. They're all in on it. They've been
fucking plotting and planning it. They're but they don't get arrested.
But they're all in on it. This is how they
did it. Theory was that they kept his phone at
the house, so at the friend's house while he drove

(01:34:06):
back home because it would ping in the right place,
fucking killed her while he was naked, took a shower,
put the same clothes back on. Is this real? This
is the thing? Her? Yes, yes, it this is what
our friend, fucking Leah asked. He was like, let me
tell you, I'm a fucking prosecutor for real, like a

(01:34:27):
diploma and shit on my wall. And this is my argument. Dang, listen,
I don't have a fucking diploma, and I wouldn't argue that.

Speaker 2 (01:34:37):
So the five people are insanely evil as opposed to
maybe just this one other lady.

Speaker 1 (01:34:42):
Uh huh okay, uh huh okay, it's very problematic. Okay,
So killed her while he was naked so that his
clothes wouldn't have stuff on it, took a shower, put
the same clothes black on, stashed his bloody slippers in
the closet. Then then his friends, because they had the
phone and the drive through receipt, were at the crime
scene when she was found. So the friend, one of

(01:35:05):
the friends, fucking drove the not only drove the phone
back to give to ress real quick before he called
nine win one, but went through the drive through at
Arby's to provide him with that receipt. Yes, yes, I'm
not kidding. Yes, this isn't through a drive crew for you.

Speaker 2 (01:35:21):
It's a lot of the reason that I e fast
food is because I just want that alibi.

Speaker 1 (01:35:25):
You know what I mean. We just got to got
to build that file where you've been. You see why
they gave you this photo like this chicken's fucking of
your most bananas stories I've ever heard. Yeah, Okay, pop up,
He went, he bought an Arby's franchise. He put up
his own receipt, and then it was the whole thing too,
Like he had ran a bunch of errands earlier in

(01:35:46):
the day and they were like, it's too many errands.
It's suspicious. He's trying to create an alibi. And it's like, well,
I had a coupon for dog food here, and cigarettes
are cheaper here.

Speaker 2 (01:35:55):
It's silly, but it's like, you know, it's kind of
the way everyone lives their life.

Speaker 1 (01:35:59):
Yeah, I like my pet food store. Specifically, it's called
it's called Errand's Errands. Errands, isn't one place or just
be Errand. That's a fucking a very good point. That
sounded like the hackiest joke in the world. But I'm
just trying to make this fucking make sense. Okay, Okay,

(01:36:20):
guess what. Guess what? Russ is found guilty and given
life without parole. Can you fucking fuck promise I promise
I'm not making this shit up? They know, Okay, please

(01:36:40):
tell me.

Speaker 2 (01:36:41):
Okay, problematic, just keep going because this is making me nuts.

Speaker 1 (01:36:46):
What what is it? Now? You go go ahead top that? Okay?
Oh it's so awful. Okay, like a couple of days
after he is given life without parole. This our fucking
friend Pam Hau revokes the trust, takes that money back

(01:37:07):
out of the car. Kill greedy girl. She's like, JK,
bitches and takes the money. So Betsy's daughter sue her
and then they lose, which I think that's ongoing and
they should win it all back and it's it's obnoxious anyways.
Then okay, all these like appeals and all this crazy
shit's going on, and the defense attorney's like, this is insane.

(01:37:29):
Then in twenty fifteen, a judge orders a new trial.
Let's fast forward when all kinds of blood evidence and
rest's favor comes to light that the prosecutors hadn't provided
with the original case evential illuminol shit that they're be like, oh,
the camera didn't work. And then someone anonymously was like,
here's one hundred and thirteen photos of the camera working
and the luminol not showing anything. It's just shit fucking bananas. Okay,

(01:37:52):
but but anonymous source also turns over evidence that our friend,
prosecutor Leah Aski, is having an affair with one of
the lead detectives in the case. Detective Michael Lang during
the time of the arrest, trial and conviction, and she
even fucking em talked to him on on what do
they call it twitter? No, you know, cross examine him,

(01:38:19):
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:38:20):
Oh, on the a bench, on the seat on the
front of.

Speaker 1 (01:38:24):
The audience stand. I am not drawing, no, the basics.
It's so irritating. We still haven't gotten to why she
has fucking tampons on her neck. Pats, I cannot wait.

Speaker 2 (01:38:40):
But here's that is such a bummer like to do,
to put someone in jail for life because of love,
you fucking idiot.

Speaker 1 (01:38:49):
Yeah, or you know, an affair. It's not even it's
just a weird Okay, everything's in the same everything. Let's
not judge. Let's judge the ship they judge. Let's try
that's what this is for.

Speaker 2 (01:39:01):
But if it was the greatest love of all them,
like Whitney used to sing.

Speaker 1 (01:39:04):
About, go ahead. I'm just saying devil's advocating. When the
new trial starts, Pam Haup is like still lying, still
making all the crazy shit up, and then is like, oh,
you know what, another thing is Another reason she put
all the money, the life insurance into my name is
because I forgot to tell you this. We were lesbian lovers.

(01:39:25):
Oh yeah, twist rue, No, no, twist, she just fucking
made another thing up. That's not true. More banana shit.

Speaker 2 (01:39:34):
This is this whole story is very parallel to VC
Andrew's novel My Sweet Audrena.

Speaker 1 (01:39:40):
Oh my god, is it not? Have you guys read it?

Speaker 2 (01:39:44):
I was listening to the audiobook on the plane, laughing
out loud and writing down phrases. It's just getting dirtier
and weirder as it good, and I can't wait for.

Speaker 1 (01:39:55):
You to read them to me. Oh no, I mean
not in a gross way, but ha uh okay, sorry,
so no, you're you're right. So finally, Russ is acquitted
in a retrial in November twenty fifteen. Yay, great.

Speaker 2 (01:40:13):
So in the in the retrial, it's just him. It's
just about the fact that he went to jail. So
it has nothing to do with Pam.

Speaker 1 (01:40:20):
No. Now, all this, all this Pam shit is admissible
because the new judge is like, what the fuck? Okay,
okay okay, and the old judge is like, there's like
four cases that are overturned because they were like, you
can't let this into you know, Okay, it was full shit.

Speaker 2 (01:40:37):
Okay, we're you gonna talk some more lost stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:40:41):
Oh my god, it's insane. I'm really excited. Okay, retrial acquitted,
et cetera. Then here we go somewhere where he shit happens.
This we're getting We're getting to the weird shit. Okay, weirder.
August sixteenth, twenty sixteen, Pam Hupp calls nine to one
one from her home in O'Fallon. That's that right, and
tell did it? And tells police that there is a

(01:41:04):
man in her home attacking her and she's on the
phone with them. Shoots him to death. The man who's
at the man who broke into her house, who's attacking her, Well,
she's on the phone, I'm one, okay, somebody he's coming
at me, shoots him. He's an intruder. The man is
thirty three year old Lewis Gumberberger, and Pam Heups says

(01:41:24):
that he approached her in her driveway of her home,
followed her into her home with a knife to her,
and demanded rests his money. Terrified for her life, she
said she knocked the knife away from him, ran inside
and grabbed her thirty eight ruguer revolver from her nightstand.
You know you keep next to your VC Andrews's book. Sure, yeah,

(01:41:48):
and he came after her quote like a madman, says
she shot him. So this guy Lewis, he's thirty three
from Union, Missouri. The thing is he had suffered a
traumatic brain injury after being in a car accident eleven
years ago. And we had diminished mental capacity and scanned
a physical capacity. So he only left home. He didn't

(01:42:08):
leave home alone often, he didn't drive. He lived thirteen
miles away from her. There's no reason he would have
been there. And when his pockets are searched, he had
nine hundred dollars in his wallet and a handwritten note
sent with instructions to kidnap Pam Hup and get quote
Russ's money and then kill Pam Hup.

Speaker 2 (01:42:27):
So look that was all in his wallet on paper, handwritten.

Speaker 1 (01:42:34):
What are my errands today? Let's see, like someone had
hired him as a hitman.

Speaker 2 (01:42:41):
To kill him, written the directions on paper, folded up
in his wallet like an RB's receipt and sent him
on his way.

Speaker 1 (01:42:49):
You know how you send Arby's receipts all over town.
That's right, Okay, when police investigate a random woman is like,
you know what's weird about this investigation is that a
week ago, a woman ofpproached me in an suv, claiming
to be a dateline producer working on a story about
nine to one one calls. And she's like, excuse me,
random woman, can I just record you saying this nine

(01:43:09):
one one call? We need some voiceover for the dateline
NBC show I work for. That's how we do it.
That's that's how they do it.

Speaker 2 (01:43:16):
Karen tell us, well, thank you for giving me this opportunity.
Because high level television producing, especially an award winning nighttime
news magazine, they're going to stick a phone out the
window and they're going to use that as an interview.

Speaker 1 (01:43:32):
It happens. Well, she was like, come with me. I'll
give you money. Just come back to my house with
me and record this ninety one one call. And the
woman's like, you don't. I'm not going to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:43:43):
She's like, I am a professional voiceover actress and you're
going to have to book a studio, right, you.

Speaker 1 (01:43:50):
Know, normal stuff. But the woman's like, fuck no, because
you don't have any credentials. And later the woman's able
to identify the woman in the suv shockingly as Pam
hub So when the money in Lewis's pocket is checked,
the serial numbers from one hundred dollars bills from that
nine hundred dollars matches the like one hundred dollars bill
that Pam has. So she was like one for you,

(01:44:11):
two for you, three or four for you, one for me,
like they were in order. They were all friends.

Speaker 2 (01:44:17):
So it's basically like she took out a chunk of
the middle, left the other ones in her wallet and
then stuck them in his wallet very clearly.

Speaker 1 (01:44:23):
Yeah, they were from the same litter essentially.

Speaker 2 (01:44:25):
Okay, Then she drove herund asking people to write a
handwritten note that said go kidnap.

Speaker 1 (01:44:33):
Yeah, that matches the one in Pam's stupid pocket. Authorities
think that she picked up Lewis and offered him money
for this reason, drove him back to her house, staged
the incident to make it look like he was attacking her,
and shot him. So essentially, she killed an innocent man
to frame Restria for attempting to kill her and take

(01:44:56):
the attention from Betsy's murder off of her because now
they were looking at her.

Speaker 2 (01:45:00):
Yeah, because you won't get attention if you kill a
man in your kitchen.

Speaker 1 (01:45:03):
No, that's how you lay low. It's good, it's a
good tip. Well, what happens is everyone's like, oh, she's
been through enough, let's not bother to put her in jail. Yeah, yeah,
she got attacked before being booked. Fifty seven year old
Pam hub was asked, asked, she's the restroom and stabbed
herself in the neck and wrist with a ballpoint pen.

(01:45:24):
Oh hey girl, this chick is fucking little.

Speaker 2 (01:45:33):
She is going for it in a major way. Here's
the thing. There's what could be less effective for a
stabbing situation than a ballpoint pen.

Speaker 1 (01:45:47):
I've I mean, she's like, maybe this will make them
get off me, and they're like, she's been through enough. Now, No,
she's been through enough. Okay, we don't now. She put
a Maxi pat on her neck. She's been through enough.
That's so embarass I look at her fucking smile. Well
you got me, you finally got me, and book them Jesus, yep,

(01:46:14):
one hundred percent. Jesus. Okay, I think that's it. And
then okay, fine, no Lee now these days okay, Okay. Also,
the Saint Louis County Police Department is also reviewing a
twenty thirteen case involving the death of none other than
Pam Hupp's seventy seven year old mother, Shirley Newman, who right,

(01:46:35):
who died right before the first trial, before Betsy's first trial,
the murder of Betsy. She fell to her death from
a third four balcony. The medical examiner found high levels
of ambient in her mom's system, and Pam had spent
time with her that day. It was initially ruled an accidental,
but it's now undetermined and they're looking into it. And
the she faces first degree murder on Lewis's murder and

(01:46:59):
she's going to try in September twenty eighteen, so we'll
all be there. You guys have to go, oh my god,
what did I say? Crazy?

Speaker 2 (01:47:11):
Unbelievable, right, so intense.

Speaker 1 (01:47:14):
So intense. This is the story with the pad on
the her using a pad on her wound, right, Yes,
that's right. So that's always a that's always a if
you when you're trying to pick stories, if you see that,
you grab.

Speaker 2 (01:47:27):
It, any kind of Maxi pad based anything. We're we're
in an that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:47:32):
If it's evidence in a trial. That's what we want.
What's your update? So my update is incredible. So that
was twenty seventeen, and she had just been arraigned and
was awaiting trial. And in August of twenty what was
that number? In August of twenty nineteen, she was sentenced
to life in prison without the possibility of parole. And

(01:47:53):
then in twenty twenty another update, her husband finally filed
for divorce. Oh, mister huff it's like one thing after
another for that poor guy. Yeah, you know, pretty intense. Yeah, well,
great job.

Speaker 2 (01:48:07):
It's always fun to talk about things we did in
the past, that's right and listen to them.

Speaker 1 (01:48:12):
Yeah, and now special hometown, live show hometown, Stephen, can
you tell us the details of this? Yes, it is
a live hometown from Michelle from North Charleston, South Carolina.
September twenty first, twenty eighteen. South Carolina, Charleston's definitely one
of those. Okay, if I ever retire, I want to
move there. It's a charming little town. It was a

(01:48:36):
beautiful town. That was It was very fun to be there,
for sure. College towns man, you can't go wrong here.
Let's hear it is her name, Michelle's did you say Michelle?
Michelle strong accent, which we always appreciate. Let's hear Michelle's hometown.
We have time for hometown. Let's do it hometown town.

(01:48:57):
We got around these rules by you really quick. We
know maybe you know them already, but it's important just
to remember.

Speaker 2 (01:49:02):
The key here is being concise, knowing your story exactly
and by heart, telling it quickly. When you get up here,
it's very overwhelming. We always forget to warn people about that.
It can't be very So if you're like three and
a half bears in, you might want to reconsider just
because like it hits you kind of like a cold wave,
and then you don't really know what to do.

Speaker 1 (01:49:24):
So key points are important. Just run through that fucking story.
Take us on a journey.

Speaker 2 (01:49:28):
Help you.

Speaker 1 (01:49:29):
We're here here you, We'll help you. We love you,
we want it. It's best when it's personal. It's it
has to be local.

Speaker 2 (01:49:36):
It's it's we don't care, Carolina in in Arizona, we
just don't care.

Speaker 1 (01:49:40):
Yeah, nobody here cares. Okay, so remember everyone hates you.
If you get picked. I will add this, We're ail this,
I will add this. I will add this. I'm still talking.
I will add this ray. Scream all you up? I
still have Oh look it's good.

Speaker 2 (01:50:02):
Say all right.

Speaker 1 (01:50:09):
The words of wisdom, I said, no words of wisdom
for us? Did you hear that? I called? You are
what our husband? This job has many responsibilities. I do
what needs to be done. It's a good man. I
don't select select all right, Yeah, let's go there. Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:50:33):
If you don't get picked, be quiet.

Speaker 1 (01:50:40):
Stop. I know it's tuck. Hey yeah, sorry, I know
it's hard. The odds are hard. I shouldn't be doing
this because now I feels horrible. Can we bring the
light suns everyone anymore? Thank you? Look out for basses theory?
How are you guys? Did you wait four minutes to

(01:51:05):
order tickets?

Speaker 3 (01:51:08):
Sorry?

Speaker 2 (01:51:10):
Hi?

Speaker 3 (01:51:10):
Hi?

Speaker 2 (01:51:11):
How are you?

Speaker 1 (01:51:14):
H'm Michelle? Come on up kids, skirt? What does your
shirt say? You've been here? Bloody's with a murder? Yes?
I did? What does that mean bloody?

Speaker 5 (01:51:25):
I had bloody Mary's with a murder on locial occasions
before he committed a crazy night?

Speaker 1 (01:51:32):
Here we fucking go? Okay, you just picked?

Speaker 2 (01:51:35):
Am I right by saying Georgia just picked a person
who made a T shirt of her hometown.

Speaker 1 (01:51:40):
Yes I did.

Speaker 3 (01:51:41):
Holy shit, what are the odds I'm gonna or too?

Speaker 1 (01:51:45):
Shirt? All right? Hell us?

Speaker 2 (01:51:49):
And Nick?

Speaker 1 (01:51:49):
Can I ask another question? Did you wear your purse
up here? Well? It sounds like I ever heard her
on it? She made it?

Speaker 3 (01:51:55):
Did you wear your my friend made it?

Speaker 1 (01:51:58):
Okay? So you do have a friend here, you just
she's the one.

Speaker 3 (01:52:00):
Who's wearing the half and half question.

Speaker 1 (01:52:02):
Oh okay, that makes sense. Awesome. You guys are like you.
You can't both have a thing. Oh those two girls
got a thing.

Speaker 3 (01:52:11):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:52:12):
Now where are you from?

Speaker 2 (01:52:13):
All right?

Speaker 5 (01:52:13):
So I live in Florence County in Florence, and I
have a part time I have a part time job
in Darlington where I work at a dive bar.

Speaker 2 (01:52:22):
Nice.

Speaker 3 (01:52:23):
Yes, a range of great people.

Speaker 5 (01:52:26):
And I had met this guy before prior and we
had over a couple of yused to come in and
on Sundays they would do what they call communion, where
you would have bloody Mary's martiniz mimosas it would bring them.

Speaker 1 (01:52:36):
Instead of going to church.

Speaker 3 (01:52:37):
You know, we're Baptists. We can't drink there.

Speaker 1 (01:52:42):
Amen.

Speaker 5 (01:52:44):
So we went to several of these functions plenty of times,
had a great time drank Bloody Mary's.

Speaker 1 (01:52:50):
You know, So I smoked.

Speaker 3 (01:52:51):
So I got on the yard and this.

Speaker 5 (01:52:53):
Guy would come out with me, his amates, Randy Robinson,
and we would smoke and whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:52:58):
He was a great conversationalist, very intelligent.

Speaker 1 (01:53:01):
Sounds like.

Speaker 5 (01:53:03):
Should have known better, right, So I didn't see him
for a long time, and flash forward a few years.
Can I just ask a quick question, yes, did you.

Speaker 1 (01:53:11):
Kind of like him?

Speaker 5 (01:53:13):
I liked his personality, but he was mapping on me hard,
knowing my husband was in the house, so I knew.

Speaker 3 (01:53:20):
So he changed my opinion of him very quickly.

Speaker 1 (01:53:25):
And that wasn't first. You know.

Speaker 3 (01:53:26):
That came along a little bit later, but still disrespectful.

Speaker 1 (01:53:29):
Yeah, yeah, pockets, she's she's got it all.

Speaker 3 (01:53:40):
I'm turning red.

Speaker 5 (01:53:43):
So I heard his name on a newscast while I'm like,
you know, in the kitchen messing around. Randy Robinson is
a purchased person of interest in a murder, and I was.

Speaker 3 (01:53:52):
Like, what, I'm run in the living room and turned
the volume up.

Speaker 1 (01:53:54):
Well, he had moved to the beach about.

Speaker 3 (01:53:56):
An hour away, and he was the last person scene.

Speaker 5 (01:54:00):
With his on and off again girlfriend. Her name was
Angie Pipkin. She was thirty two years old, single mother,
and much later turns out he had accidentally murdered her
in a fit of rage, a domestic incident, of course, Yeah,
I didn't mean to. Yeah, but here's the messed up part.
So he dismembers her in his garage. His neighbors said

(01:54:26):
it was weird that he was pressure washing the house
the garage in his truck.

Speaker 1 (01:54:31):
But he rides back.

Speaker 5 (01:54:32):
To Goington County with these parts in a trash can.
He enlists the help of a friend from back in
the day, tells him he needs help disposing of a
hog carcass, which is.

Speaker 1 (01:54:42):
Completely believable where we live.

Speaker 5 (01:54:45):
But when they started pulling the parts out, the friends
like that ain't no hog.

Speaker 1 (01:54:50):
Oh fuck.

Speaker 3 (01:54:52):
The friend ended up testifying against him.

Speaker 5 (01:54:54):
Oh yes, he got prosecuted to the fullest and definitely hey.

Speaker 3 (01:55:01):
He should have been.

Speaker 5 (01:55:02):
Yeah, but that's my hometown.

Speaker 1 (01:55:04):
Amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:55:10):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:55:10):
I have to mention my husband has a podcast. It's
called Cinema chop Shop. Nice movie movie podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:55:18):
Love it Cinema Shop. Guess what you just want? Give me? Carlo,
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:55:27):
I was working for a great job, some job beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:55:36):
The only people who are who work in dive bars,
are allowed to do hometowns now like because you know
they can fucking talk. So just just.

Speaker 2 (01:55:45):
Severe respect to someone who's gonna plug her husband's podcast
one of us.

Speaker 1 (01:55:50):
She knows, she knows how it works. We watch wrestling. Everyone.
Great job, Michelle, I've awe you. I've alway hated Bloody Mary's,
and I would like this to be the proof that
they saw it's sucking cold ketchup and alcohol. I love them,
I really do. It's thick cold ketchup when you can

(01:56:14):
drink it in the morning, and no one says I
hate that, like I hate mimosas and I hate bloody Marries.
I love mimosas, they're too much sugar. But you can't
order a beer at brunch like you're judge somehow if
you order a whiskey or a cocktail and everyone else orders.
Oh but Vince did introduce me to greyhounds though, Oh

(01:56:35):
those are niceyeh, bod cut, that's nice, low key, that
looks like OJ That's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:56:40):
All right, Well, I think this has been an extra
large episode. But you know, we we enjoy podcasting.

Speaker 1 (01:56:48):
We enjoy podcasting obviously, or we wouldn't have done it
for the last last five years and written two books
about it. Here's the proof you need more proof. I
don't know what more you need. Why do you keep
questioning us? Clearly we love it. Clearly, we love we
love it. We love you. Stay sexy and don't get murdered.

(01:57:09):
Goodbye Elvis. Do you want a cookie?