58 - Some Quiet Sunday

What a huge goddamn relief, it's a new My Favorite Murder! This week Karen and Georgia talk about the folie à deux of the Eriksson twins and the crimes of Mel Ignatow. Plus a hometown murder from comedian Kurt Braunohler.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome to my favorite murder. Hi, welcome to my favorite murder. Hello,
welcome to my favorite murder. Hello, Hello, Hello, I don't
learn how to start this thing someday.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
What was wrong with that really creepy, unnatural speaking voice?

Speaker 1 (00:39):
It was too light.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
It was kind of like when someone says they'll scratch
her back, but then they just they kind of just
lightly drag their hand across her back.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
What is worse than that? You know, it's worse than
that is when those blankets that when your heels I
got your heels a little dry and like rubs across
those like wooly blankets, or like gets caught on a cuticle,
Like you're a fucking goat, Like like.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
You're so not Uh, you're so disgusting that like blankets.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Like long it's been since you've fucking taken care of yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Hey, miss Havisham, how why don't you fucking soak these feet?

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:17):
That you know, it's you know, it's worse what uh
when a guy puts his head on your shoulder?

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Oh, why are you serious? Don't you? Isn't that the
grossest thing of all time? I don't understand that one.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
I don't know I just hate it. Wow, I really
thought you were gonna be with me on that one.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
But I don't know. I don't get it. I don't know.
It's like to be cute or something where it's like,
can you not be precious? Like a guy doing that
is like, well, you because you also like a masculine
dude who takes care of you. And a guy who
fucking puts his head on your stupid shoulder is.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Like, I mean, it's just a little like they might
have will also kick their outside leg up when they kiss.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
You and like pull their skirt out a little bit.
What the hell? I'm fine with that, But you know,
it's even grosser when you don't have a garbage disposal.
You have to take the food out of the fucking
the wet food out of the drain of the sink.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
I don't know what you're talking about. That's how it
feels to be abandoned. No, it just made me like, wait,
did you have to do that by hand and then
throw it in the garbage? Yes?

Speaker 1 (02:30):
And it makes me sick to my stomach. How old
is the food days? Weeks? No, it's just like you
just died the dishes. Okay, man, if you don't have
food from your mouth.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
You're not a soaker though, because I'll go ahead and
I'll soak some dishes for a good two weeks. Do
you ever do that where you're like, I'm cleaning them
by letting them sit in the sink with soapy water
in them.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, I'll put some I'll put some cold water in
a bowl of like yogurt, and that's never or like cereal,
and it's like it's still gonna get to the bowl
every time. Yes, like put like the thing that we
would yell in my house is put water in it.
It's like nobody, nobody knows we'd live in that house.
I lived there for sixteen years, and the dishwasher, the

(03:12):
dishwasher never worked a single day that I lived there.
Where in the not the other part in the house
I grew up in.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, So you always had to do
everything by hand.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
And so when people would almost willfully ignorantly leave a
bowl of cereal in the sink, yeah, knowing full well
it was just going to then be cemented onto the
side of that.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Right, and you'd get yelled at and have to do it. Yeah,
And then you'd have to take your fucking hand and
take all the wet food out. Wait, you have a
garb disposal now doing? Now I do yeah, Like that's yeah,
now I do.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
Not You must run that thing all day long, love
it just for no reason, all day just creating kind
of a nice white noise in the background.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
It's go comforting.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
You know what I hate tell me is when you're
like taking a shower and you're just like, oh, it's
so great to get clean, and you look down there's
like straight up black mold in your shower or something
like where you the thing of Like you don't notice
how filthy you are until you look at one thing,
and then you're like, oh my god, yeah that's not
like grout.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
That's not black grouse. The groud is white. If someone
else saw this who was a clean person, yes, well
right now in my shower, I hope you didn't see
that when you just peede, is that like there's leg
shavings everywhere? Because I just now like, this is the
first time I've had a white shower, yeah, because our
last one was like gray and pink, like vintage gray

(04:33):
and pink for sure, and you can't see that shit.
I'm gray, no, but now it's all white. Now you
have to look at your own body, leg shavings, offerings.
I wonder if Vince notices this too. I mean, he
must be into it.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
My sister when she came down, because she is a
super clean type a type person and I am not.
My sister got crazy bummed because the I have that
the drain in my bathtub.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Where your hair gets caught in it. It gets caught.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
There's no like secondary screen I being able to find,
because it's just there isn't one, so it's always backing up.
And my sister was so bummed at the amount of water.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Because it was like, no, I got it.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah, And then I was just stand, you're right, that
is gross, but I've never noticed.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
It's just how it is like standing water standing. I
don't like that either, because then it is gross. It's gross.
And then the leg shavings are like getting attached to
your ankles but great.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
And also they stay when the rest of it drains
because it drains so slow. Then it creates its own
kind of like it looks like a map, like a
topological map of a river basin.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Look at yourself, Look at you can I bring this
back around? Sure? However, it does make your feet nice
and soft on they're soaking in the water there, it
sure does, and then they won't rub on a blanket,
and it's like, shit, it's great. Is that spend my
favorite murder? Imagine someone who's listening for the first time,
They're like, what the They're just like, I saw this.

(06:09):
I came in here for decapitated.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
This was on a murder list, and it certainly is
no murder.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
This is my favorite murder. Really quick.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
One time, my dad said to me, he came down
to visit me, and then my like, the thing broke
in my toilet hand to go in and.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Fix the stopper or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
And while we were standing in there, he goes, hey,
why don't you spend some quiet sunday cleaning behind this toilet?
And the level of total disgust that he said it
with I think of it every time I'm in the bathroom, Bob.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
That is an extra level of con of being condescending.
He could just say, hey, you should clean the back
of your toilet.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Oh no, it always has to be like a one
man show in our family. What do you take a
quiet spend some quiet sunday? Wow, cleaning behind this toilet.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
I don't know, Dad, because I'm busy going to therapy
to get over you, or maybe because I just party. Yeah,
I have a life. I like love. I love to
be outside where.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
The toilet isn't because friends, I don't like the toilet
as much as you do.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
To add, what am I saying that? Because it's not
as because you know it's important to me Dad, living
my life, living my life, and if that means having
a filthy toilet, so be it, so be it. You
know who's problem that isn't mine mine?

Speaker 2 (07:30):
Welcome to My Favorite Murder. It's a murder podcast for murder,
Murder of Ficionado.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
So much murder and crime. God that we're all about it. Justice. Oh,
that's us totally America America. Uh, that's Karen Kilgarriff. That's
Georgia hart Stark.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Hi, we're here to host this show and sometimes we
talk about uh personal stuff we do totally.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
I don't know if you even personal. That was just
like every day. I met a guide today who works
in a morgue. He's gonna work in a morgue and
is going to morgue person school. Yes, we went to
lunch today and I got so excited. I had this
incredible therapy appointment that like made life sunnier. Then I
go to this to the restaurant they were going to

(08:19):
meet it. It's Jone's on Third and it's not like
we go there every day. It doesn't great everybody goes there.
It's a great meals to eat in Studio City. Well,
the guy is ringing me up for my coffee, was like,
how's your day going, and I'm like good, thanks, how's yours?
And he's like, great, I had a job interview. I'm like,
oh Jesus fucking guy's talking to me now. I'm like, oh,
you're being polite. Oh, what was it for? And then
he was like oh at the La County Morgue. And

(08:41):
I was like, what what the fuck do you think
he knew? No, Oh, I love that so much. He
just told like he didn't know how I would react,
and of course I grab him by the arm. Did
you across the counter? Oh my god? Tell me everything?
And he was like, oh, you know, blobby blog, I'm
going to school to be a mortuary momortician something like

(09:06):
that exactly. I was like, that's amazing, You're in the
right LA is going to be incredible, and he's like,
I know the murder well, I said, I said, this
is LA's going to be a great place to do that.
He said, I know. The murder count just keeps going up.
That's right.

Speaker 3 (09:20):
She said that.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
And then I turn around and this girl came up
to me and was like, Hi, I really like the podcast.
This is weird. My grandfather is a serial killer. No.
Literally moments later, okay, that's when I walked in.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, okay, So I have the bad habit of my
sunglasses are also a prescription So when I come in
from outside and my sunglasses are always on my head,
which means I can't see.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
I always forget that you can't see anything.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, I can't see well, like, I can't see past
like a couple feet in front of you. So like,
and it helps me because walking into a place like
that John's on Third is very like CNB Seen type
of place, and I always get real insecure whatever. So
I'm like, oh, God, better that I don't have my
glasses on except for reading menus and seeing where Georgia
is sitting and all the things that actually meeting someone

(10:07):
if I saw.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
You, but I was in the middle of this discussion
with this girl Anna.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
But also I didn't realize, like I wouldn't. I thought
you'd be seeing by yourself. So when I when this
kind of one blurry figure waved an arm, I was like,
what the hell's going on that I have to go
over here now? And I walk up and Georgia is
in full on like kind of don't interrupt us conversation.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
No, what I was saying is, don't tell Karen. Don't
tell Karen. Don't tell Karen when she walks over to you,
don't take Karen. Yeah, so wait, you're gonna tell me
right now. Yeah. He was a fucking serial killer. He's
in prison. He was like the sheriff in Bakersfield and
he was killing sex workers. No, she didn't know till
she was older, and then she saw an episode of
like Forensic Files and was like that's my grandfather. Like

(10:49):
she was news in prison but didn't know what the
deal is hold on. I know, was that in like
the eighties or nineties. She was like eleven, I guess,
and she looked in her early twenties. Yeah, she was
pretty young. Yeah that is so intense.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
I know.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
So I was like, this is Anna bye bye An. Yeah,
because I can't keep a secret. I'm like not good
at that. So I didn't want to be like that's
so good. Name was nice Goats on Twitter Nice Goats.
His name is David Keith Rogers. He's and her. She
said her grandmother wrote him a letter every single day,

(11:24):
called him every Sunday, despite the fact that he was
a serial killer.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
Denial, denial, that's some serious denial. She's like, that's not
the man I'm married. No, Well, talk about living in
double life. He's he's the sheriff and he's that is
a nightmare. That's that's like, that's his true detective. Yeah,
season all of them. Never because it's never going to happen.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Can I Can I say one other thing? Yes that
I love. Yes. I'm listening to another new podcast that
I finished within a couple as I do, called in
the Dark The Jacob Wetterling One. Oh no, I haven't,
I haven't heard it. Well I didn't. I was like,
Jacob Waterling, everyone knows what happened with him is the
kid who got kidnapped, you know, in Minnesota and they
ate in eighties whatever, And so I was like, I'll

(12:12):
just listen to an episode. It is fucking enthralling. It
is one of the best fucking investigative journalists dick podcasts
to be things. I've ever listened to it. I gotta
listen to it. It's incredible and it's not about Jacob Wetterling.
It's about everything that went wrong in It's like it
is a fucking hard look at law enforcement. Wow, and
how they mishandled the entire fucking case and how a

(12:36):
fueled stranger danger and the sex offender registries and is
that the right thing to do? And like it's and
then they just solve the case like a week before
they were going to put the podcast out. WHOA, I like,
tie all this shit into it. Wow. Oh, I got
to listen to that. Madeleine Baron is the host. I
love that. It's all these fucking badass women who are

(12:56):
hosting these incredible investigative journalism so in the dark it's
called in the Dark. In the Dark. Ugh, fucking I
could not stop listening to it. Oh, I love that.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
I actually just thought of this too, because I just
watched of if nobody, If you're not watching Vanity Fair Confidential,
which is a series.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
On a place what watch part do you not know.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
I'm just trying to think of where it is, but
it might be investigation, discovery or something.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
It doesn't matter. You can just put it in, but
it's they have.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
They basically go over stories that have been in Vanity Fair,
which is a tough magazine that's existed for like seventy
plus years maybe long, great art, great investigative journalism.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Yeah, And the one that I watched yesterday was about
this couple which was basically about satanic panic and that
weird thing that happened in the eighties where all of
a sudden it was like at the Martin preschool preschool case,
and then there was this other one that happened to
these people in Austin, Texas and they just got out
of jail and they still haven't been exonerated.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Fucking kidding, they're just they were just released of like that.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
It's basically what you were just talking about, where back then,
when they knew nothing about how leading, how how much
you could screw up an interview with a four year
old or a three year old, how easy it is
to get that child to say exactly.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
What you want them to say totally, And.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
That's how all those things exploded. That's why it happened
all at the same time.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
That's amazing that that shit, that is what fucking happens
in this podcast, and it is incredible how it's so terrifying,
Like I have to listen to a positive book now
because I'm so fucked up over it. Yeah, oh, I
gotta listen to that and Vanity Fair Confidential. What's cool
is that they take those articles and they interview like
the main narrator, interviewer guy is the person is the

(14:46):
person who wrote that article? Yes, I love that.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
And then other than the police that were there and
the other family members and stuff, they've been The last
couple that I've watched have been so good.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
It's just like it's a really well done series. I
watched in a while. I'm gonna check it out. Yeah,
it's good. Cool. Also, did you say that thing someone
tweeted at us or it was somewhere like I think
it was on our Facebook about the windshield wiper shirt? Yes, Trick, Yes,
is that do you think that's true?

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Probably? I mean it could have like its sources in
some once true thing. But I like the idea that
people spread that around me too, because I think it's
that thing of just like eyes open, eyes open, and
don't like. So basically what it was is there is
a picture I think it was either on Instagram or
Twitter or whatever, but it's like a girl there's a

(15:37):
shirt wrapped around her windshield wiper, and then when she
gets out to take it off, there's people there that
are like to grab her because she's out of her.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Car, right, they get you get in your car at night,
you're being very careful in this built in the structure,
and then oh shit, there's something on my windshield. I
better get out and take it off. Yeah, and then
that's like that's when your guard is down.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yes, So it's just the idea and that thing spread
like wildfire.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, I saw that in a couple different plays.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Really.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, I was like, this sounds this sounds like you know,
and his hook was in the back of was in
the car or the back door? But it is. Yeah,
it is a good kind of reminder to pay attention.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yes, it only takes one thing like that. And also
you have to think if you're like, you should think
of your car as like the safe zone. So like
once you're in there and you've locked that door, you're
good to go. So if you can drive with.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
A shirt on your winchil, we get the fuck out
of them. That's what the girl said she did, is
she fucking knew something was wrong. She saw a car
idling supposedly, you know, and then so she fucking drove away,
and when she was alone and say, she fucking got
out and pulled it hing off. She's like, it didn't
make sense that it was wrapped around my windshield.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
Right, Yeah, it doesn't because it's not like, oh, it
dropped from you know it blue onto my windshield.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Whatever, it's if it's wrapped.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
She was basically taking her context clues and going, this
is a red flag situation.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Betcha this fictitious characters, a murderina. But she is what else?
I mean, what do we do? We have anything to
report back from?

Speaker 2 (17:14):
And I would just say this because we haven't recorded
since our tour.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Right right, last episode was our where were We? Our
Oakland Show. The last episode we put on this podcast
was the Oakland Show.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
This podcast, this one right now was Live Oakland. After
Live Oakland, we met a bunch of great people and
the first person we met was a girl who made
us some amazing stuff. I don't have her card or anything,
but did you see in that bag? And I'm not
sure if you went through it? So I got a
tote bag that said my dogs are fiercely Private.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Oh and she got me a bag that had a
fucking adorable Siamese cat on it that I'm totally using
all the time now. Yep. And also I think handmade.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
I don't know if she bought them or she designed
them herself, but I feel like she made them. The
Barb notebook. Did you get a Barb notebook? Yes, yes,
I think that's her drawing.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
That is amazing.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
So we just want we had a fun conversation with you.
She was very excited, and we just wanted to say
it was just as fun for us.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
To meet you as as it was for you to
meet us, because she was she was. She was very
sweet and very excited. Everyone's been more so lucky.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yes, we get lots of nice presents and it's funny.
And also in Oakland, most of my family was there.
My cousin Stevie, who's basically like my older brother who
beat me up my whole childhood and then became a
super cool friend and now is basically like my sister
and my sister's family and his family like do everything together.

(18:52):
And it's really awesome because that's the way we all
grew up together. It's like the next generation. I heard
the rumor that he was crying during our show because
he was so proud and like blown away. Like basically
all of my family was like, Oh, we had no idea.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, this is what you were doing. That's amazing. Yeah,
so it was super fun. Well, Marty fucking heart Stark
is going to be at our Beacon, our New York
Beacon show this fucking weekend, and I have no idea
how he's going to react.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Please New York help us and press Marty heart Stark.
He needs to understand that his daughter has done a
good job.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
You'll know him by the fact that he's the only
grown man alone there. That's not true.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
Amir and Seattle. Remember the guy that made us the macarone?
Oh yeah, he like had taken Steven, He had taken
a cooking class.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
He had made macarons.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
That had they were pink with red blood spatter on them,
put them in a tupperware and brought them to the show.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
Yeah, and we knew they weren't poisonous because a girl
in line behind us him had eaten them and she
was like they were great, and they're like, how do
you feel you feel like, okayah, come fine, you're like
our tester. I love macarths and I got Ted Bundy cookies.
Oh my god, oh shit, Wow, I just said the
wrong word. Jesus, did you see that. Elvis just came

(20:07):
out of his little cat house. Okay, because I said
the word the cookie, He's gonna have to get one early.
He is a monster. He's we've made a monster.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Sodhouse Bakery in Seattle are the ones that made us.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
I tweeted those. Yeah, they're on our favorite murder Instagram.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
Unbelievable Ted Bundy and I would just like to make
point out the fact that it turns into a thing
where it looks like, oh, we love Ted Bundy in
no way. It's like, it's the story we're telling, and
it's I'm not saying to you, I'm just saying in general, Okay,
when on the podcast people are like, it sounds like
we're cheering.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
It's not about Held Bundy. It's the fascination of the story.
And yeah, in the crime and the the fact that
that exists, and the icing, and that was an amazing cookie.
It was like a brown sugar cook It was crazy,
really beautiful art and the shape of Washing Washington, probably

(21:07):
because we were in Seattle, it was in shape of Washington.
We are at the best people, we are at the book.
Can I talk about how I took a bite out
of it to take a photo and like, like it
seem obvious that it was a cookie, And then I said, uh, look,
I took a bite out of crime. And then I
fucking laughed my ass off of my own fucking stupid joke. God,

(21:29):
it gets lonely in that dressing room. It's quiet. We
don't have groupies.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
Oh and that's the place where I put on a
record and it was some lame eighties not lame, there
were some good songs on it, but that was an
eighties compilation.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
And a stick song came on and it was dead silent.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
Me and Georgia like looking down at our murders or whatever,
like getting ready, and then she goes, oh my.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
God, what is this. She's not even a good singer.
And I am still laughing about that. Very enjoyable. I
didn't know you look like it's your turn to go first,
is it. I don't know you were. You looked like
you were ready, and I was like, oh, she knows. Well,
then I'm interpreting from that you would like me to
go for first. Hair, I don't want to fuck it up.
I bet Stephen knows well. We fucked it up going live.

(22:14):
Oh Steven, do you know? No? Did you see him
pick up his finger like he was trying to shush us?
He was no, I think it was like trying to
remember and I was, and you brought the microphone up
so perfectly like I'm about to tell you.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Well.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Also, it was like, does it count from the Oakland
episode or do you count the other live episodes in
terms of who goes? Oh?

Speaker 2 (22:36):
No, then it's me because I think Oakland Oakland, so
it is me. Okay, all right, whatever, Well this is
now I'm afraid because I'm ninety nine percent positive you
haven't done this murder. But truly, as I was printing
it up and leaving my house, I was like, this,
it's so familiar, and I know that I've done research

(22:59):
on it before, thinking I would do it before.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Well, I've had to think about looking up murders before
being like, have I done it before? Not just you? Okay,
so I think we're so you won't be mad if
this is a repeat, only if you do it better
than I did. Well, I'm pretty sure you didn't. But
I know we've.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Talked about it and the reason that I wanted to
do it is because I mentioned it the last the last.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
Just the biggest one. Sorry, like in your face, no problem,
the last.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
Uh. I think the last studio recording that we did
when I talked about the Pepa Sisters, the French Maid's
killed apartment.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yes, this this podcasting studio.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
So it's another case of Falia do, which is the
shared psychosis, and it's the story of Ursula and Sabina Ericksson.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Have not done it. We've talked about it. Yes, fucking
I'm excited about this.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
Okay, good, all right, but a huge goddamn really because
I was truly like, I was like, I'm printing it.
I don't this is what I've done, Like I can't
go back from here.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
That's like my trigger. And then I'm like, this is over.
I can't believe you don't remember I was. I cried
that episode. Yeah, it meant a lot to me too, anyway,
all right, okay, So.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
In that sorry if you didn't hear that episode. So
uh a folio do is uh In French, it translates
as the madness of two and it's a form of
shared psychosis between two people who are extremely close. The
Papas sisters were an older and younger sister. It is
rumored that they were having a sexual relationship, but they

(24:49):
did work for a rumor to be very strict mistress
who they killed so violently that it beats most of
the crimes we talk about modern day.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
Really it doesn't. It doesn't fit with what you know,
what I mean, I'm not matching the punishment and all that.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yes, it's it's such extreme overkill that it's nuts, so
bizarre totally.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
So this is this is a little bit different.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
But this, I feel like, is the much more famous
version of this shared psychosis and it is uh Ursula
and Sabina Ericson. So in May of two thousand and eight,
two Swedish sisters who live in Ireland who are in
their late thirties named Ursula and Sabina Ericson twin sisters

(25:41):
that should be in there. They are twin sisters and
they live in County Cork and they've traveled to there.
They're they're traveling to London, but they've taken they're in
Liverpool when this all goes down taking the bus into London,
or they're right outside Liverpool, I guess. So when they

(26:04):
first arrive in Liverpool or wherever they are nearby it,
the first thing they do is they walk into the
Saint Anne's Street police station and quote unquote report concerns
about Sabine's children. So from the get go of their
like trip to London, there's shit going on. They immediately

(26:24):
go and start talking to the police. Nothing comes of it.
Then they get on this bus, the National Express coach
into London. After a little while on the bus, they
tell the driver they don't feel well. He pulls over
to the roadside services and they get off the bus.

(26:44):
When they try to get back on the bus, they
are clutching these bags that they have with them in
a way that makes.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
The driver suspicious.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
So he says, we need to look in your bags
before you get back on the bus, and they're like,
no fucking way, and they're so so weird about not
letting anybody look into their bags that the bus driver
kicks them off the bus and heaves them there.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Fucking hero. Oh wait, that's kind of shooting. Don't leave
women on the side of the road.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
Well, but but I mean, like, so the second I
hear this, I'm like, what is in those bags?

Speaker 1 (27:17):
Totally? I need to know what's in those bags immediately.
Oh yes, I'm imagining lots right.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
So uh so the gas station manager where they have
stopped at Best what they call services in England, is
informed by this bus driver these two are acting weird
and shady and so I'm not letting them back on
the bus. So that gas station manager calls the police.

(27:45):
They come and talk to Ursula and Sabine, decide they're
harmless and leave. So now Ursula and Sabine are stranded
by the M six, which is a freeway in England
and not the TV show am I six, which I
thought I was thinking of the whole time I first
started researching this.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
Have you ever watched six?

Speaker 2 (28:09):
Nope with Matthew McFadden, who is mister Darcy Richard arm Anyway,
none of it good stuff, good stuff, good British procedural,
good talk. But there's an M six, and then there's
an M I six. They're not the same thing, Karen.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
So they're stranded and the next thing that they know
is that there's CCTV footage of them walking down the
central part of the freeway like that.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
So they have run across the center median.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yes, they've run across the freeway, so you can see.
Here's the insane part of all this. There is video
footage of this entire incident.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
I don't like, I've seen it, and it's like whenever
there's CCTV footage, I'm like, don't want to watch this.
Something awful is going to happen. Yes, that's bad too.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
But there was also basically a British version of Cops
which was called Motorway. Yes, a Motorway Cops, which was
a reality show that they were filming when this happened.
So the entire thing is caught on an eng yes,
like a TV show. That's why there's so much, Like

(29:27):
you can see all of it. It's super crazy. Yeah,
because did they sign waivers?

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Totally?

Speaker 2 (29:34):
There must be because they broke the law. They must
have to or something. So basically here's what or maybe
they have different rules of production. All right, here's what happened.
They're they're in the Central Median and they they run
to cross it again. Ursula gets across, but Sabina gets

(29:57):
hit by a car. So they call the Highway Agency
traffic officers, which I imagine is like the highway Patrol,
but I don't know, and I didn't look it up.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
There I wrote this horrible thing.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
Uh So when Highway Agency traffic officers, what I can
only imagine are the British Highway Patrol. So British chips,
which in America are crisps but in England are French fries.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
That's I love where you went with that. That was
so expected. So like fish and Chips, what if like
fish and what if there was like a cop show
that the cops were British and there's a guy named
like Andy Fish and so it's like fish and Chips,
Can someone please make a fucking We'll be the chips.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
So Carrie Fish is a British detective that's come to
Los Angeles and then he.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
Needs the help of two girl podcasters chips. Where the
chips though, because we're British cops, we are well because
we have oh no, no, we're chips. Highway patrols. Yeah,
we're highway patrol, right, all right, what fish could be?
The band fish fish, the bandfish fish and chips leads

(31:12):
cops like they're undercover narks, yes, and they go to
their shows.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
They nark on people at their own dews. They're pop cops.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah, guys, here's the thing. Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
So basically, the British Highway Patrol shows up with this
British reality show called Motorway Cops. Fuck you, they're already
recording it.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
That's so shitty. No, no, no, they didn't.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
Know what the scenario was. They showed up on the
scene like, well, this is a day in.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
The life of these cops. Okay, yeah, it's like that. Okay,
so uh so.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Uh as they So the two twin women are standing
on the side of the road talking to these cops,
and the the guys that are that were there first
on the scene first are explaining to the British police
who showed up with the camera crew. They're like, okay,
so here's what happened. I guess they ran across the freeway.
We don't really know what they're doing. One of them

(32:11):
got hit, but she's okay, and blah blah blah and
they're explaining everything, and the two women are standing there
while the cops are talking to each other, and then
as the camera's rolling, Ursula bolts out into the freeway
and immediately gets hit by a truck And it is

(32:33):
on The truck is going fifty six miles an hour.
It's on camera, you can it doesn't there's somebody that's
kind of blocking it, so you don't see like the
real awful part.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
But and to make it clear, she's not running trying
to cross, she's running to get hit by her car.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
Well, there's no it's just like that fucked up part
and Bowfinger where Eddie Murphy has to run across the
freeway for the like special effect.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Do you remember that? Mm hmm, you don't. Well, here's
the thing.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
It's not like Frogger words like one coming every couple
of seconds. It's like running into onto the five right now,
Like there's there's no.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
Pause in the traffic, right.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
So she ran out onto a busy freeway intentionally, fuck
and she does it, and everybody's like it's really upsetting
because it's.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
All the cops going like whoah, my god or whatever, and.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
They're immediately onto their things, calling for an ambulance doing this,
and while they're doing that, and one of them.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
Runs out to stop traffic whatever.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
While they do that, then Sabine runs out into the freeway.
Fuck dude, because there So it's the craziest thing to
see because nobody, of course, once the one goes, they're
nobody goes, Oh, make sure the other one doesn't go.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
They all go fully shit, call call an ambulance. You
would never yeah, who would do that.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
So Ursula's legs, so with Sabine runs out in the
freeway and immediately gets hit by a Volkswagen Polo, which we.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
Don't keep driving those fucking cars. Yes, you've ruined their love.
I mean the lorry driver. The truck driver that hit
Ursula is on this. You can see the video footage,
and it's the saddest thing because he just keeps going.
She just thrown out in front of us.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
That's not the accent, but it's something like that where
he says us instead of me. It's rough and he's
just like kind of staring off, like in total shock.
But here's the thing. So Ursula's legs, she has compound
fractures in her legs. The cop I saw a special
on it.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
It's called like madness on the motorway or something like that.
But it's really good. But it's not as good as
fish and chips. It is no fish and chips. I'll
never never.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
She is down and this is so upsetting because her
she's bones are sticking out of her legs.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
No no, no, no, no no no.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, you're not gonna I get hit by a truck
and the freeway and have it not be really gross
and upsetting. But meanwhile she's down right, so the bottom
half of her body is not moving and it's fucked
up badly, but the top half of her they go
and they put one of those tinfoil marathon blankets on
her and they're like trying to talk to her. Is

(35:20):
basically like the ambulance is going to be here, you're okay,
And she starts going, I know who you are. I
know who you are, and they're like, just take it easy,
it's okay. She says, uh, I recognize you. I know
you're not real. Oh my god, and the police are
just saying it's okay.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Stayed out. She tries.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
She's trying to get up, so it looks like a
really hideous part of like walking dead where like the
zombies been like attacked from the back, but they're still
dragging themselves. Like she's trying to push herself up but
her legs aren't going to move, and she's trying to
like fight him. She's spitting at him.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
That's scary.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, she's freaking out. So her sister is, So that's Ursula.
Sabina is also on the ground and she looks like
she's out out and there it's there's a female cop
next to her, and I think the second person is
a woman who was maybe a passer by in a car.

(36:21):
I'm not sure, but they're both sitting there and they're
like she's got one of those tinfoil blankets on her
and she and and Sabina is just eyes closed out,
and then she comes to and she like almost like
immediately gets up and they're like no, no, no, don't move,
don't move, and she's clearly like dazed, but she starts
saying they're gonna steal your organs. She's yelling that over

(36:44):
to Ursula, They're gonna steal your organs, and and she
and then she they're like no, no, no, stay down,
and they're trying to hold her down and she starts
yelling help call the police, and they're like, we are
the police. It's okay. And there and so then they're
thinking they're on drug. But they must be on some
kind of drug because now Sabine is up on her
feet and she's trying to like she's like like trying

(37:09):
to get away, and they're like, you need to calm down,
it's okay. She fucking jumps the rail and runs into
the other on the other side.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
Of the freeway.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
I swear to god, they thank god, that wasn't as
busy on that side, and I think they may have
stopped traffic, like traffic was totally stopped on this side
where Ursula was going slowing down and ship probably and
like maybe less traffic.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
I'm not sure. But anyway, she runs across.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
This cop has to run after her, and he's like, stop,
what are you doing.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
Don't you know you're hurt?

Speaker 2 (37:42):
You're hurt, And she's like and she basically turns turns
on him like she's gonna fist fight him. Oh my god,
and she's like and she's screaming, help call the police,
and they're like, we are the police, Like it's crazy.
So they so basically it eventually takes six policemen to
sub do Sabine. Oh my, six policemen to finally get

(38:03):
her down and sedate like they shoot her up. They
meanwhile airlift Ursula out to the hospital. She was spitting
at them the whole like they were fighting the entire time,
and the cops that subdued Sabine said that she had
superhuman strength, that both of them did.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
So they're thinking.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
They're on probably on PCP or something like you know
the drugs associated with that we're taught as a kid,
or like yeah, you could like lift a car totally,
do whatever you want totally.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
Which I just the idea.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
Of whatever world that they were in where they thought
what was what was happening because they still don't know
to this day the logic behind and there's no explanation.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Wait, I hope I was hoping you'd get to the explanation.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Well, I'm just going to spoiler alert for you right now.
They've never explained it in court. When she finally went
to court, all she would say is no comment. They
have never explained to any of it, and there was
no drugs in their system, So okay, she gets they
Finally they finally the six people get her down sedate her.

(39:14):
She goes to the hospital and then goes directly into
police custody in a place called Stoke on Trent uh
So on May nineteenth, two thousand and eight, she is
released from court. Sabina is released from court without a
full psychiatric evaluation, having pleaded guilty to trespass on the
motor roy and hitting a police officer, which she decked

(39:37):
that female police officer. She punched her right in the
face to get away from her. That's before she ran
across for the third fucking time. So the court sentenced
her to one day in custody, which she had already served.
So she leaves and she begins to wander the streets
of stow Cat trying to find her sister in the

(40:00):
hospital and carrying her possessions in a clear pat plastic bag.
So she's just kind of now out on the street.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Let her go. Yeah, So she's that night. Two local
guys who are walking a dog see her and there
she comes up and is very friendly. She's petting the dog.
They're all talking.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
One of the men is a fifty four year old
man named Glenn Hollings, head, who is a self employed welder.
He was had been a paramedic and he was a
former RAF worker. The other man was his friend, Peter Malloy.
And so they all start talking and even though she's friendly,
Sabina's acting super weird. So she does stuff like offers.

(40:45):
She's asking them if they know any the directions for
any good bed and breakfasts or any place to stay.
She offers them cigarettes and then takes them back while
they're smoking them, like she's so he so this guy,
Glenn Halling's head can tell there's something wrong with her.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
This is the part I This is the part that
I'm like, did we do this one? Did we Stephen? Well,
this is the murder part. Yeah, so we must have
talked about this. I'm sure we've talked about it, but
I don't know. I don't think we have. I'd be
a bummer. Well, who, you're doing a great job. Well thanks,
thank you appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
So she they go back to his house because he's like,
something's wrong with this lady and she's just wandering out
on the street.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
So they go back to his house and she's basically.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
Saying, I need to find my sister she's in a hospital,
so they start I think they said she she they
hang out that night. She was carrying multiple mobile phones
and a laptop. She was constantly looking out the window.
She was super paranoid, and Molloy assumed the friend assumes
that she's run away from an abusive partner the way

(41:55):
she's acting, so they're like, you can stay here, and
she's my all bandaged up and shit.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
Right after being released.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
I don't but I don't think when she was up
and like basically trying to duke it out with this cop,
she looked fine. Having been hit by a car two times,
she seemed fine and didn't break any bones, apparently because
she wasn't like held at the hospital.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
So okay.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
So anyway, when the friend leaves, he leaves at shortly
before midnight, and Sabina stays at the house. So the
next morning, Holling's head is calling local hospitals to find Pursola,
to see where she is, and at let's see, this

(42:39):
would be seven point forty in the morning. He goes
outside to ask his neighbor for tea bags and the
neighbor says, let me finish up what I'm doing and
I'll come and bring him over. And so so Glenn
walks back into the house. Oh, because he's washing his
the neighbor's washing his car. So he's like, oh, when
I finish, I'll bring him over. And then a minute

(43:01):
after going inside, he staggers back outside the house and
saying to the neighbor, she stabbed me, and then collapses
on the ground. And when he had gone back into
the house, Sabina had stabbed him five times with a
kitchen knife and he died from his injuries there, and
she ran and the neighbor calls nine nine nine, which
is nine one one in England.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Not that I had to tell you that this does
this seem familiar? No, I don't think we've done this one.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
Okay, because it seems familiar to me. But I know
I've watched a full movie about this on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
You can and we all can if you want to.
After this.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
So essentially, uh she goes out of this house with
a hammer in her hand and is hitting herself in
the head with the hammer. Uh huh So every once
in a while, periodically, it says from Wikipedia, uh so,
a passing motorist this gets out of the car and

(44:03):
tries to grab the hammer away from her, and while
they're wrestling, Sabina pulls a roof tile out of the
fuck out of her pocket. What the fuck you know,
when you're wandering around town like this looks and you
just put some stuff.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
In your pocket.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
She pulls it out and hits him in the head
with it. He's momentarily stunned, and she runs away.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
But at this point the paramedics from the nine nine
to nine call have shown up and they see her
and they chase her, and they end up pursuing her
to Herron Cross, where she jumps off a forty foot
bridge onto the A fifty, which is another freeway.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
Or highway I can't stay away from.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
I mean, they love it. They love freeways and highways.
So that in that fall, she does break bones, so
she is not superhuman, and she's taken to the hospital,
and then when she's recovering there, she is put.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
Under arrest and she's later discharged and then charged with murder,
and so she goes to trial.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
They hold her and this is the part that drives
me crazy.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
She was supposed to go.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
She's charged with murder on in September of two thousand
and eight the day she's discharged from the hospital, and
the trial is scheduled for February of two thousand and nine,
but they can't find her medical records from Sweden, so
the trial is then pushed to September of two thousand
and nine. So basically, these both of these sisters are

(45:45):
kind of these mysteries. They can't find anything about them.
They can't figure out what the deal is on them,
which I think is like so fascinating. Obviously there's mental
illness taking place anyway, there's something really serious going on somehow. Yeah,
So she pleads guilty to manslaughter with diminished responsibility, but

(46:08):
at no point during her interrogation or during the trial
does she explain her actions. She only says no comment
to extensive police questioning. Both the prosecution and defense say
that she was insane at the time of the killing,
but sane during her trial, and the defense counsel claims

(46:29):
that Sabine is the secondary sufferer of folly Adu and
that Ursula was the like, the primary, like the out
basically the alpha in the situation, which is easy to
say now that she's.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Off with her crushed legs and it doesn't diminish your
responsibility for what you've done.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Well, because Ursula had nothing to do with that stabbing, right,
she wasn't there for it. So it's kind of like
it's trying to say, well, she's the one that's just
going along with everything, and it's like, yeah, Butsula wasn't
there to tell her to do that, And obviously way more.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
Is going on. If that was her, if that was
her behavior when she was by herself, I don't want
to know.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
I want to know all of it. Anyway, she's sentenced
to five years in prison. Five She had already spent
four hundred and thirty nine days in custody, so she
ended up being eligible for a release in twenty eleven.
So they the judge says that she has a low

(47:33):
level of culpability for her actions, but basically that the
killing was based on mental illness. She thought she was
in danger. They thought they were in danger the whole time.
They didn't know where they were, when they were on
the freeway when all that stuff was taking place. They
clearly had a break from reality and had some kind
of a psychotic break because they were yelling at the police,

(47:57):
call the police, and the police were repeated yelling back
to them, we are the police, and that just wasn't
didn't seem to be breaking through in any way. Yea,
and so I don't think there's no explanation, but it
didn't seem like that changed in any significant way by
the time Glenn Hollings had brought her into his apartment. Yeah,

(48:17):
I mean she was like that's that kind of thing though,
of like what are you doing? Like, what are you doing?
This is like this is not a healthy person or
an okay person. I mean he was, he was trying.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
To be a good guy. It's what he was doing.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
But there's a lot of danger in that of like
just taking in a mentally ill person from the street
is is a dangerous thing, even if it's a woman.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Yeah, what was I gonna ask? So did they get out? Yes,
she was paroled and we don't know hold on, yeah,
yeah she got out. Where is she now? I don't know.
I'm scared. I'm scared now. And the brother of.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
Glenn Halling's head, the guy that got staffed Holend's head,
basically said that he he doesn't blame her because he
clearly understands that she was her mental state.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
She probably thought that was something she needed.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
To do, but she blamed he blames that system that
just released her into the street with a plastic bag,
going like, well, good luck. You clearly ran across the
freeway three times, but now you're just on your own.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yeah, yeah, without the person you've been with. So it's like,
we don't know if you Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
But so here's the thing that I want to know,
and like, let's just put aside. So because there weren't
drugs in their system, so all those all their theories
of like they're on PCP or this, none of that
proved out, and they I think that the reason it's
vague here and hopefully there's other people that know the details.
We would love to hear that. I would love to
hear them. But like the idea that they're not they're

(50:05):
not on drugs. Clearly there's some kind of a psychosis
taking place, but not so much that they then get
put into any kind of like that that Sabine gets
put into any kind of a mental hospital should.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
Have been what is it fifty fifty when they can
hold you for being crazy for some.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
And like, what more do you need than people suing
across the freeway three times. Yeah, you're not hurt. Get
out of here, right, it doesn't It's very strange. It
doesn't make a ton of sense. But for me, I
want to know. So one of the things they said
they were carrying were a whole bunch of cell phones
in those bags.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Yeah, that they didn't want people to see.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
But the idea that they thought people wanted to take
their organs, like they thought they were being chased. They
thought they needed a bunch of cell phones. They couldn't
show them to people. They they like that idea. It's
like a you know, paranoid delusion or whatever. But like,
what did they what was the world that they were in.
I would be so fascinated to know the details of

(51:02):
what they thought was happening.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
It's one of those like mysteries of like you know,
like tam and shoot that that guy you know that
I It's like, well, we ever know. I really want
to know. Maybe the answer someday will be like the girls,
the the girls in Austin who got killed at the
yogurt shot murders. Like I want to know so bad. Yeah,

(51:24):
we might never know. It's just so frustrating.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
I feel like I I feel like I should have
done like more back end research. But for me, the
the fascinating part is that all I mean, it's the
stabbing is an insane like ending and so terrible and
so incredibly tragic, but like what was happening on that

(51:49):
freeway is so crazy and that to me, I got
all caught up in that and the video.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
I mean watching that video. Was just watched it. I did,
because it's like it was the whole story.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
I understand it's crazy, though it doesn't it's like your
mind can't comprehend it because it's a person running into trap.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
No I can't.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
Yeah, it's crazy, wow, really really crazy. I want to
know also if Ursula being separate from if because they
were separated, if anybody like snapped out of it and
then was like, oh this is we were we were?

Speaker 1 (52:24):
I mean, but you can't blame it on that, can't
Like it's not real, the fucking like the connection that
they had that made them do this, you know what
I mean, Like they're just both crazy, right, but it's real.
I'm sorry, they're both mentally ill, yes, but separately they're
mentally ill. It's not like one is causing the other one, right.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
Although that's kind of like the what they say happen.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
Yes, because the other.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
The Gibbons sisters, who are those who are those twins
who lived in Wales and they grew up they were
like some of the only black people in so they
grew up and they were terribly bullied and abused, so
they didn't talk to anybody but each other and they
had a secret language.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
That's so this is basically it's the same thing. Yeah,
they had a thing where when they were in.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Jail because they started lighting fires and so.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
They went to jail.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
They went to a mental hospital because they didn't talk
to anybody and they only talk to each other. But
they would do a thing where they would find one
if standing frozen in a certain pose in her cell,
and they would go to the other cell on the
other side of the jail and she would be standing
in the exact same pose.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Oh my fucking god, Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
So there is something too, like the mental connection of twins.
I know there's something there, because like, how did that happen? Yeah,
unless it was like, oh, every day we do this thing.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Right at this time, maybe I don't know, or is
that you know, someone exaggerating at the mental hospital told
someone that, and that got a little bigger and bigger
and sure like it's its own creepypasta. Yeah, well be kept.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
But every reporter there was a reporter that went and
spent time with them, who said.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
They were just incredibly eerie.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
You know, it's like two people that don't feel the
need to talk, who would just sit there that also
are like, you know, twins. And one of them finally
said to that reporter, the only way I'm getting out
of here is if one of us dies and then
one did die of an expanded heart or something like
kind of for no reason, like in a way where
it's just one died, and then the other got out

(54:35):
and she lived a normal life, right huh. Or at
least she's got out and living her life outside of
mental hospital.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
She could be a twin. Would you be a twin?
I still want to be when I was a kid?
You what I wanted to be when I was a kid.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
I mean, I think it would be fun, it would
I thought it would be hard to like look at
yourself all the time.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
Part of me was just like I kind of want
to know what I look like objectively, you know what
I mean? Yes, And do you ever like look at
and be like, Okay, if I saw that girl, what
would I think? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
I mean, the funny thing to me is that I
can take such insanely bad pictures and I can take
really good pictures, and then it's like, well, what is
the I guess it's just a happy medium. And that's
how it is with everybody.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
It's so weird that yeah, am I gonna get yeah? Everything?
So what if you and I start fucking what is
it called morphing into each other? Follying, folly you doing? Yes,
let's do that on the road. Okay, that'd be kind
of fun.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
Let me fun.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
It would be fun to just run and just get
your Yeah, Like, can you make my decisions for me? Please?
I'm done making decisions. Yeah. My decision is to pull
someone's eyes out. Sorry. Sorry, my decision is to a
run into the freeway, all right. I love when I
like think of am like when I'm like, what murder

(55:56):
should I do? And then I'm like, oh, yeah, I've
fucking been fascinated by this one for years. I'm gonna
do it, you know, And it's like not when you're
just randomly fine yep. So mel Ignato is a fifty
year old man. He's a divorced father of three grown kids,
and Brenda Sue Schaeffer is thirty six. She's a medical assistant,

(56:17):
and they had been a relationship for two years and engaged,
and then in nineteen eighty eight, Shaeffer decides to break
it off, and she tells a friend that Mel was
sexually abusive and by all accounts, everyone says he's controlling
and he's a sadistic motherfucker. That's what I wrote. So

(56:39):
Brenda goes missing after deciding to break it off with Mel,
and her car is found on the highway real close
to her home, close enough that it had broken down
she could have walked over walked home. It's been broken into,
the radio stolen, and family and police, though quickly suspect
Mel in the day appearance, but they aren't able to

(57:02):
locate any witnesses or physical evidence linking him, and they
can't find Brenda her body, so they interview him to
clear his name so he can clear his name by
testifying before a grand jury, and randomly he mentions the
name of his ex girlfriend of ten years, Maryanne sure,

(57:25):
which randomly brings her to the investigation for the first time,
they hadn't even known, like she wasn't on the radar
at all. So the police interview Marianne and eventually she
confesses to helping plan the murder of Brenda, and of course,
out of that, she gets a plea bargain that she'll
only get charged with tampering with evidence. So Marianne tells

(57:51):
police that Mel had convinced her to help him plan
and carry out Brenda's murder. They spends they had spent
several weeks making extensive preparations for Brenda's murder, including quote
scream testing Marianne's house and digging a grave in the

(58:12):
woods behind her house. Mel even keeps a checklist of
the things he was going to do to Brenda on
the night he killed her. And these photos of her.
You know, I watched a couple episodes of all these shows.
And he looks like, you know, he's fifty years old.
He looks like a dad. He looks like a normal dude,
normal eighties dad. She's thirty six, and she's this pretty,

(58:34):
you know, sweet looking girl, a fucking sweet honesty ad,
you know, and it's his girlfriend. They're engaged and they
were together for two years she had been divorced, and
he's kind of like showering her with gifts and it
just gets weirder and weirder though, and her family says
in the beginning, like, we just didn't understand why she

(58:55):
was with him at all and didn't trust him from
the beginning. But I think you know he was a sociopath,
so he was fucking charming at first. Yeah, he made
her feel special, right, and so On September twenty third,
nineteen eighty eight, Maryanne tells the police that Mel lures
Brenda to the house under the guise of her returning

(59:17):
some jewelry that had belonged to Mel that I think
he must have bought her. And when Brenda gets in
the house, Mel pulls a gun and locks the door,
and Marianne is there this whole time. He forces her
to strip, then blindfolds, gags and binds her, and he
uses the list of all the things he was going
to do to her and proceeds to go down the

(59:38):
list doing each of them. He ties her to a
coffee table and he rapes, sodomizes, and beats her, all
the while having Marianne take photos of what's going on
what the fuck? What in the fuck this is someone
you were with for two years? You have grown children, Like,
who the fuck? Yeah, let's see. Marianne says she never

(01:00:05):
joined it and she just took photos.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
Oh oh, oh okay, Mary, then okay.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
You just took the photos of a vicious attack. He
then grosser. It's even grosser. But it's not. It's not
see that, you know, like you're standing by taking photos.
Get out, lady. I can't even watch a fucking bar fight.
Like I love a bar fight. I love it, I

(01:00:31):
love it. What about it?

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
I just like it's a very It's like watching attention.
It's from going to college in Sacramento.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
They happened all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
Basically, bars would clear out and then people would just
stand around watching people fight until the cops came. And
then girls would like cry and like you know, drunk girls,
and you'd be like, if you just be quiet, it'll
be over faster and then we'll all go home.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
It's my favorite.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
It's just like male it's it's you know, eighties male expression.
At They're just like, I'm not a football player and
I'm not a frat boy.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
I don't know what to do I'm all pent up
with my fucking testosterone and anger and my feeling.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
I have all these feelings and I'm not allowed to
have them. And then I listen to a lot of
Boston so here, I'm gonna punch you right in the face.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
I saw a couple of vicious fights before, so like,
I feel like I have this aversion to them because
they were too awful. Yeah, I don't like, I can't,
I can't look. I love it. That's amazing. I love that.
I love that. Anyways, back to the horror. Okay, she's
taking photos, says, she never joins in. He then takes Mel,

(01:01:41):
then takes Brenda back to the back bedroom and kills
her by putting a rag soaked in chloroform over her
mouth until she dies. Her fucking baby. And then Marianne
helps Mel cover up the murder by including bearing Brenda
in a hole they dug behind behind the house so
they bury her. Mary Anne so after her admission fourteen

(01:02:05):
months after Brenda's disappearance, mary Anne leads the investigators to
the gravesite. They find Brenda's badly decomposed body buried there.
Of course, there's no DNA evidence, since the body had
been decomposed. But that's in nineteen eighty eight, you know
what I mean? Like, I feel like now they could
have fourteen months. Isn't that long to be buried? Right? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
I feel like these days they could get it in
so many ways. Totally yeah, But back then it was
like yeah, yeah, did totally different story.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Yes. So they investigators convinced Marianne to wear a wire
to talk to Mel and she tells them that the
FBI is hounding her. She's afraid the property behind her
house is going to be sold and developed. And he's
on the tape reading her for letting the FBI quote
rattle her and told her that he didn't care if
they dug up the whole property because quote, that place

(01:02:53):
we dug is not shallow. So, based on this recording,
as well as a little physical evidence from his home,
prosecutors charge mel Ignatau of Ignato with the murder in
nineteen ninety one. And then, okay, let's see. So during

(01:03:14):
one of the recorded conversations, when mel says that place
we dug is not shallow, he says, besides that one
area right by where that site is does not have
any trees by it. The defense attorney convinced the jury
that Mel said safe and not sight, and so it

(01:03:36):
led the jurors to conclude that the discussion involved burying
a safe, not a body, so instead of sight they
thought it would they convinced the jury that it was safe,
like they fucking buried a safe.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
But didn't Marianne already tell them everything they needed to know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Well, so, so mari Anne testifies. She's a star witness,
but she dresses like skimpy, laughs the whole time during
her testimony. And they argue that the defense argues that
mary Anne killed Brenda, not Mel, and so him saying
that thing about a safe doesn't implicate him in the murder.

(01:04:15):
WHOA yeah, so, and she had been convicted of fraud before,
and so her credibility is totally underminded, undermounded, underminded, undermine,
undermined in the eyes. That was a joke. I knew
it wasn't that, Stephen. Don't write that down, Steve. When
I see you write that down, undermound, that's my new word, oh,

(01:04:38):
I wrote her, all of which undermines her credibility in
the eyes of the stupid idiot jury. Then I said,
the stupid idiot jury found mal Ignato not guilty on
all seven counts. Whoa yep. Then the judge, Martin Johnstone,
he's so embarrassed by the verdict that he writes a
letter of apology to the Schaeffer family saying, if it

(01:05:01):
was just me and not a jury, I would have
fucking put this guy away forever, which is like pretty amazing. Yeah.
And then an interesting random fact, so it was this
was it took place like December twenty first or so,
And it turns out that when a trial, the closer
a trial takes place to Christmas, juries are more likely
to acquit. That makes sense, it's not fucked up. Yeah.

(01:05:24):
Is it because they want to get the fuck out
of trial or is it because they have like they
have feelings of you know, when you get off fuzzy
and cozy during the holidays and you're like love and
family and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
Yeah, I bet it's like, I bet it's a bit
of both, depending on the personality. But it's like normally
where you wouldn't have either at play, Yeah, you have.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
Now both at play, right, So whether.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
It's the person that's like, but I just watched this
Hallmark movie.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
Yeah, fuck, And like in the fucking courtroom. There's like
a Christmas tree in the corner, and.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
They're like, people are looking over there. I've got to
go shopping now.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
They put a fucking Santa hat on Mel while sitting
at the stop. I'm just saying, that's what they should do.
It's just they bake cookies, so it just smells nice.
Immediate mistrial. Uh they just no, they just spray air freshmen.
They smells like bake cookies, spray cinnamon glade. Don't you
love it? Okay? Innocent? Okay. So six months later, Okay,

(01:06:26):
then so he's out, this motherfucker. Six months later he
sells his house because he needs funds to pay for
his legal bills. And the house is like, he's not
a fucking trashy person. He has a beautiful house. He
looks like a normal guy. I argue he is a
trashy person. I mean clearly, you know what I mean,
Like you wouldn't know. Like when I was like researching it,
I was like, oh, I thought of like making a

(01:06:46):
murderer dude, yes, right, who just like lives on a
you know, farm or whatever. No, it's like a lovely
tutor house and he is your fucking dad's best friend. Yeah,
in the eighties. Yeah, so he sells the house. He
needs to pay for the legal bills. Hmm. So a
carpenter is laying a carpet layer is working on the house.

(01:07:08):
He pulls up a length of carpet in the hallway.
Underneath that carpet is a floor event. Inside that floor
event is a plastic bag taped to the inside of
the vent Ooh. Inside the bag is the jewelry that
Brenda had brought over the night of, as well as
three rolls of undeveloped film. Oh shit, And he grabbed

(01:07:30):
that bag and ran. Nope, because he didn't own the
fucking house anymore. Someone else owned it. Oh you mean
the guy the carpenter.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
Yes, he did, Okay, good, okay, And now very silently, he.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
Nailed in some wood and covered that. He opened all
the and he exposed the film. Anyways, that's the ND
of my story. And by yeah, so the fucking cops
get those three rolls of film developed. It's like one
hundred and eighty photos of start to finish. Marianne's i
mean Brenda's torture and murder taken by so everything she

(01:08:08):
said was trying Mel Well, Mel's face isn't in the film,
but his body hair patterns and match it perfectly. Oh good, okay,
and match her story, yes, Like she wasn't fucking lying.
She's a fucking monster. Yea, so she was lying. Hey,
guess what, Karen? What ever heard of double jeopardy? Are
you sure? How? Oh? Well, here it is to ruin

(01:08:30):
your night? Yep? Because of double jeopardy. Mel Campy retried
for Brenda's murder. He's brought a child for trial for
perjury based on his grand jury testimony, because it's like
all they could fucking do. He knew he couldn't be
retried for murder. So he confesses in court at his
perjury trial to the whole fucking thing, turns to schaeffer,

(01:08:51):
to Brenda's brothers, and says, but she died peacefully. Yeah.
He gets an eight year sentence for perjury service, five
of those years credit for two years that he was served,
and another year off for good behavior. You get can
we look at your whole life of behavior and know

(01:09:11):
that you murdered someone? And then so that doesn't so
you fucking not getting in a fight at the mess
hall doesn't take get time off your fucking sentence. You'd
think one would think, excuse me, so sentenced, Okay, good behavior.

(01:09:31):
He's out. He gets another thing, another charge, another another
thing for perjury, a different thing.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
So they're still going after him in whatever way they can. Yeah,
like they do on Law and order.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
Yeah, well get him for good day, right, So he
gets he's another another trial for perjury, nine years for that.
Released from prison but the second time. In December two
thousand and six, he goes home to Louisville, living at
home four miles from the house where he murdered Brenda Whoa.
Two years later, September one, two thousand and eight, Mel

(01:10:05):
allegedly falls off a ladder, cuts his arm on a
glass coffee table. Again the coffee table, oh, slowly leads
to death. Yay, what he's seventy years old?

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
Okay is I'm sorry? So it's a ladder inside the house.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
If it's a ladder, but you know, he's like hanging
or painting on a standing doing something, dah falls off
of it and it's Some places say he breaks through
the glass and cuts his arms, some say his head.
But either way, like there was like blood marks where
he like climbed around the house and like couldn't And
so people are like, did he really fall like.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
Or did someone like basically go smash his head into
a glass coffee.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
Table into a coffee table, which is the same thing
he fucking tied Brenda to when she came over somewhere.
I said, that's the same coffee table. But I don't
think that's.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
True, and that would be yeah, well that would mean
he would put that coffee table into storage.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
But it wasn't his copy able again with it was
Marianne's house, Okay, although I think he owned it. I
don't know something. So he's fucked. This piece of shit
is dead at seventy. In two thousand and eight, Mary
Anne served three years with five year sentence for uh,
you know, bad photography Like yes, the worst dies from

(01:11:22):
cancer in a hospice at age fifty four. Whoa, that's young.
Yeah yeah, yes, that's her body turned on herself. Yeah.
They were like, we're shutting this shit down. She's a monster.
Like if you watch her talking and see her, she's
a monster.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
I don't understand, Like he's dating he's a fifteen year
old man dating a thirty six year old or thirty
four year old. Why doesn't he just break up with her.
Why does he have to kill her? Hes have to
like rape her and demean her and what's the deal in.

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
The worst way possible? And he planned it for weeks,
like he he wanted to do this so badly to her,
and it was like two years. I mean, I just
don't understand. He's a beast. That's crazy. They went back
and interviewed like ex girlfriends, his ex wife, and by
all accounts, he's a sexual sadist. Oh, he's a fucking monster.

(01:12:16):
Like it's surprising that this is the first time he
did it. Did that, you know? Yeah, especially because he
planted like at fifty he kills the first one, you know. Yeah,
he had tortured his other girlfriends like this before, and
they all broke up with him, or they end of
the relationship somehow, or there's just ones that they don't
know about. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
Also, it's then it actually explains Marianne a little bit
more because those because of how like weird spangolish, those
types of men can be where suddenly you're doing things
that you would never do.

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
Maybe I don't know, I know, we've talked a lot
of it about Marianne.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
But but I'm just saying, Oh, she's a victim too
in that way where it's just one more person in
his weird chain of the way he uses women and
what he did to.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
Women pits them against each other.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
Yes, where it's just like, well, you're the special one,
so hold this camera.

Speaker 1 (01:13:05):
I mean, like god, it's just or she's terrified of
him because she's had ten years of fucking psychological and
physical abuse from him as well, and sexual abuse that
shoes with him for ten years. Yeah, she's maybe in
so deep. Yeah, and brainwashed it brainwashed PTSD. Ugh, it's

(01:13:26):
so ugly. That's gross. I wish I had a positive
spin on it at the end, but now I don't
think you can spin that one right one. They're not
that one or Brenda. Yeah, that's awful. Yeah, we have
a murder from a friend. Should we do kurts? Oh yeah, okay, so.

Speaker 2 (01:13:46):
Okay, we haven't done a we haven't done a friend
hometown murder in a while.

Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
Yeah. And we have a friend Kurt Ronalder, who I'm
sure you guys know. He's a hilarious comedian actor and
he called called one in. He called one in. He
has a special his comedy specials coming out this Friday
on Comedy Central at midnight. He also has a podcast
on Audible with his wife Lauren, who's a good friend

(01:14:11):
of mine, called Wedlock coming on April. So check those out.
Let's I listen to this. Let's hear Kurt's great.

Speaker 3 (01:14:21):
Okay, hey, it's it's Kurt. So here's here's my murder story.
This was a teacher that taught at my high school,
Christian Brothers Academy. It sounds very fancy, but it wasn't
really fancy. It was just an all boys Catholic school
in Lindcroft, New Jersey. He was the Latin teacher a

(01:14:44):
few years after I stopped going there. But the Latin
teachers historically had been lunatics. This Latin teacher that was
there when I was there was a monk, like a brother.
Most of the teachers were brothers and they were all
like weirdo, but he was like the weirdest of the weirdos.
He wouldn't allow you to have a pen in class
or hold a pen and when we and he also

(01:15:08):
would just always constantly talk about his nieces, little cupcake breast,
not getting oppressed about the new black Heart, many times
about her little cupcake breast. He was taken out of
the position of being a Latin teacher because a kid
in the class was holding a pen and so he
punched him in the mouth and then they're like, okay,
you don't get to teach anymore. And then that was
taken over by my good friend Steve, who was the

(01:15:30):
Latin teacher for a little while. He couldn't take it.
It drove him crazy. He left that, he stopped teaching
and went to live in Italy to become a stone sculptor,
a marble stone sculptor. And that's when this guy, this
guy Matt, took over as the Latin teacher. With teaching
Latin the Christian Brothers Academy drove him so crazy that
he just started getting into smoking crack apparently in the

(01:15:52):
afternoons in a place that my aunt used to live
called Ocean Grove, and Ocean Grove is a Christian community.
He's so Christian that in the eighties on Sunday they
would close off the town to cars. He apparently Jesus
doesn't like it to drive a car on Sunday. And
so my aunt used to live there and she used
to babysit me, and she's since become a nun. So

(01:16:12):
I'm just trying to expect to you how Christian and Catholic.
This whole situation is, this guy works at Christian Brothers Academy.
He's smoking crack with a woman whose last name is Weed.

Speaker 1 (01:16:23):
So Ms.

Speaker 3 (01:16:24):
Weed and this guy Matt are smoking crack together on
a Sunday afternoon, and then around six thirty pm they
get into an argument. She murders her with a nifety
stamps nine times in the neck after I guess there
was also some beating envolved. It's very horrific, and then
he just walked out down the streets to Ocean Grove.

(01:16:47):
So near minutes after people called the cops because they
heard him screaming. They just found him wandering down the
streets of this Christian town, just bloody, having murdered this
woman I just love to smoke crack with on a
Sunday afternoon. This is at six thirty pm, so whenever
they started smoking crack, I have no idea, but that's
what my high school would do.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
To you, jes This that's insanity. Is the reord that
I never want to hang out with Kurt again because
I'm terrified.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
I love the visual of a guy covered in blood
walking through a town where you're not allowed to drive
on the weekends.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
It sounds like it sounds like, yeah, there was like
it sounds like a Twilight Zone town. Yes, that's so
perfect that then a guy suddenly the image of the
opposite of that walking through town. Also, what was driving
people so crazy about that? Latin class sucking Latin man,
there's some there's some like devil shit, devil shit in there.

(01:17:48):
It's devilish. I believe they taught it there. Please watch
Kurt bronell Or special Trust Me, which airs this Friday,
March third, at midnight on Comedy Central. Yeah. Uh wow,
that was her. That was quite the episode. That was dark.
That one had something for everybody. Yeah, mostly murder, if

(01:18:08):
everyone wanted murder. Yeah, oh wait, let's say something something good. Okay,
you go first.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
Okay, Well mine is really big, but I also can't
super get into detail about it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:21):
But I'll just say this.

Speaker 2 (01:18:22):
I had a year, a probably three year problem uh
get resolved on Friday afternoon that has caused me so
much stress and panic and shame. And it's a financial
thing that's boring in detail, but I will tell you this,

(01:18:44):
if you're in a place where you are fucked financially
and you're worried and you're scared, it will end.

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
And I swear to god I was.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
I've been in this place before, but this was like
a way, way, way bigger version and it really felt
hopeless at times, and and it's over and like and
part of the reason it's over is because of this podcast.
And I'm so grateful that we are doing it and
that we have it. It means the world to me,
and I feel crazy lucky that we actually get to

(01:19:14):
do this as a job.

Speaker 1 (01:19:16):
It's so fun.

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
And also just the fact that now this truly it's
like a five hundred pound weight has been taken off
my shoulders for you.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
It's really quite nice. I had no idea how rough
it was until it ended and you told me. I know,
I couldn't tell anybody about it. It was so silly.
Please tell me I can handle fucked up shit. Well, yeah, now,
I know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
It's just that thing where I think it's like I
think everybody has, it's some version of it where it's
like the problem where you think it's this means some
terrible thing.

Speaker 1 (01:19:45):
About me around it, yeah, or just like it's.

Speaker 2 (01:19:48):
Failure, it's it's I've failed, and now everyone's going to
know I failed. But guess what, everybody fails. Everybody fails
on all different levels every day and we're all trying
to make ourselves feel better about it. So don't beat
yourself up and just know the end. There's always there's
always a silver lining. There was always light at the
end of the tunnel.

Speaker 1 (01:20:08):
Yeah. I had in the same kind of idea of
that what you just said. I had after going to
therapy since I was a child, like after like around five.
I had the most amazing session today of I think
ever and she said to me halfway through, I know
you're an atheist, Georgia, but you you worship at the

(01:20:29):
altar of doubt and it fucking blew my mind. And
so we're working on that now and how to get
passed out. And it was this switch today that I'm
so it made me hopeful for the first time in
a long time.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
When I met you when we were at Jones Lard
tonight today. Yeah, you absolutely seemed different. Really, Yes, Well,
you had, first of all, like the big smile because
somebody was telling you a story about murder. There was
a murder story happening when I arrived. But then so, yeah,
just that kind of you had almost like the like
almost the eyes of like wide eyed wonder kind of

(01:21:06):
thing of like, oh my god, you can look at
the world in a different way.

Speaker 1 (01:21:09):
Felt. And so because of that, I want to say, like,
and I know it's so people try to find therapists
and they're new at it and they're like this didn't
work for me, or I didn't like this person, and
it just is a lifetime of it. And I've had
so many fucking therapists in my life, and a handful
have been really good. Yeah, and the one I have,
luckily is right now is amazing. And you just have

(01:21:30):
to keep keep trying, keep trying, because you'll find you'll
find it. It is almost a little bit like dating.

Speaker 2 (01:21:36):
It has to be a person that you want to
spend that time with that you want to barf all
your worst stuff onto.

Speaker 1 (01:21:41):
Yeah that under that still doesn't make you feel bad. No,
they can't make you feel bad now. And this is
the first time she's ever said something straight up to
me like that, and I fucking appreciate it so much.
And this is after a year of beginning to know
me and that was just life changing. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:55):
That's a good thing to realize and understand their's options.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
Yeah yeah, yeah, And fuck man, I feel lucky too
for this podcast. I can't believe this my life. I'm
so we're pretty lucky, so lucky. Knock on, knock on.

Speaker 2 (01:22:09):
Levine would thank you, Steven, Thanks for Stephen, Thank you
so much for really bringing us together and making this
podcast happen.

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
Part of this, Thank you, Steve Moore, the procast flushing Stephen, Stephen,
you can't be here if you can't take a compliment.
I'm learning writing Stephen about not taking our It's better
if I yell at you. Right. This feels like home. Yeah,
well thanks, I know I get it. Thanks for joining us,

(01:22:41):
you guys and listening and uh and participating and guess
what what he knows already?

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
I know you're jumping your line, Elvis, stay sexy.

Speaker 1 (01:22:52):
And don't get murdered. Elvis, do you want a cookie? Bye?