DUBBED: 104 - Garden Party

This week, on My Favorite Murder DUBBED, listener discretion is NOT advised! Karen and Georgia cover the case of Susan Kuhnhausen and the Order of the Solar Temple cult.

104 - Garden Party was originally released on January 18, 2018.

For our sources and show notes, visit www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
The following episode deals with mature and disturbing themes, including murder, doomsday, cults,
hit men for hire, and explicit language. But listener discretion
is not advised because we dubbed it all out.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Now. You can listen to this podcast in front of children,
in the car with your mother in law, or at
a public pool. Please note no cults were joined in
the making of this episode. Enjoy my branch.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
Horn dubb.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Center yourself, guest, Syria, are you centered? I feel like
I might be, or are you in the center?

Speaker 2 (00:43):
I'm kind of I'm a little sideways, little wonky, I
might be a little wanky.

Speaker 4 (00:50):
That's because this is my my favorite murder the podcasts
with the consistently worst opening in the.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
History of podcast You know, we invite you in slowly
with awkwardness.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Right by, making you want to turn it off, but
you stick around because you're like, maybe this could get worse.
That's that's Karen Kilgarriff. That sigh is Karen Kilgarriff, and that.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
That fake size Georgia hartstalk. Hi. Hi, We're here to
talk to you about true crime and all the things
that we have now associated with true crime.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Which is everything which pretty much anything, anything, everything, all
of it.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
The thing I'm loving now is just consistent pictures of
old razor blade holes in people's bathroom cabinet.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Like twenty eighteen is all about Starbucks hidden in walls. Yes,
and especially if you have an old timey medicine cabinet,
go check yours. I bet there's so many people listening, like,
what are you flopping talking about? Yeah, go downstairs. I
don't know if you're upstairs. I don't wire bathrooms downstairs.

Speaker 5 (02:01):
Wait, first of all, why are you upstairs? Go downstairs.
Someone's in their car right now. They don't know, So
go upstairs. Go upstairs.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Is a double decker bus, you know? Double decker bus? Driver?
Oh you do it? Go upstairs, Go upstairs to your mansion,
Go into the bathroom. Why don't you have bathroom upstairs?

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, that's so weird. Everyone does, and why don't you
do you?

Speaker 1 (02:22):
And then open your cabinet? And is there a thing
that says razors can go in here or whatever? The
little cake an old timey font?

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yes, is there a little old fashioned hole that seems
haunted and could have bloody remnants of somebody in it?

Speaker 1 (02:37):
So much DNA, so much vintage DNA. Ooh, that would
be fun.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
And just maybe you stare at it for a couple hours,
then you start to pull at it.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Then that you write a book of short stories about
every person who's put a razor into that stuffing.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
First it's an old guy, then it's a young guy,
and it's a lady's shaving her legs.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yes, you get a woman. This is why is the
patre or are you taking over your short book short stories?

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Never forget, women shave way more than me.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
So much more.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
We're just all of our bodies, face and legs, all
of it.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Listen, when you get to be thirty something, you're gonna
shave your face too.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
You're One of my favorite tweets is our friend Morgan
Murphy Huller's comedian Morgan Murphy. She has my favorite tweet
of all time, which is your girlfriend shaves her toes.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Just like splat.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Just a little drop of hardcore.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
That's good. Sorry, it's the trick like an Italian.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Just get it done real quick.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
You don't need two hundred and forty characters to get
the good stuff going. Mm amen. You know I had
to take the like close up mirror down from my
wall in the bathroom, the like look at this mirror, yeah,
real close, in all the hairs and stuff. I had
to take it down.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
I say that special occasion hotel rooms only good.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Call because you're like, what is wrong with me? You
look at your face, You're like, why isn't I even
told me?

Speaker 2 (03:57):
But when I was growing up, we got those for
Chris one. You're my sister and I when I was
like fourteen years.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Old light because your mom was like girls, she it.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Was someone else that gave them to us, crazy and
we I used to sit at my desk in my
room with the lights out and that thing on it,
like switching it. You know how it'd be like day, evening,
night or whatever. Evening and night are the same, but
not on this mirror. It was like, yeah, one was green,
one was bright. One was like really pink.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
What you're after? Like, what if you're at like a
like a late afternoon tonight party, like that evening is
gonna come and you're gonna need to look your best.
You're gonna have today.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, you have to adjust your eyebrow plucking to the light.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Or or men will never love you and you'll never
find a husband.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
Never find a man. You will not land a man
at this garden party unless.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
You pluck your shin correct or Jessica m. A clintalk
dress can only get you so far. And that pretty
updo that permed updoo.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
You better get your list of topics to talk about
in small talk conversations, and you better shave your upper
lift or thread it or do something something. Don't forget
about those nose hairs, because that's a girl. Here's the
worst one. Oh no, just everyone's I'll I'll just catch
a random black neck hair.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Yeah yeah, I got the chin, I got the chin covered,
I got the neck. You take the neck, I'll take
the chin.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Neck might be like the next stage up. So I'm
like a whole generation older than you.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
Question is it going up or down?

Speaker 2 (05:24):
I feel like it might be going down. No, No,
it's horrible.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
You're in for a treat. I'm in for the night.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
That's why I do not leave my house. I can't
trust my neck. I don't know what's coming out of
there ever.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
Anyway, what we're talking about, Oh yeah, you got the mirror.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
Just I would stare into it and pluck my eybrows
and look at my pores for so long that my
dad would just keep walking by my bedroom door, going, oh,
you would make a noise like it was a bug light,
and I was like a praying Manti's cot on a
bug light.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
He was like a look at the bug light. You're heads. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
They never helped.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
No, why would they. They want you to suffer, so
you don't get an ego. Well it's flapping and like
reach great heights or whatever. You know why because then
you're gonna fall further. You're welcome, fourteen year old Karen.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
See, it doesn't hurt as bad when you don't climb
as high.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
When you stumble upwards, it's better than when you climb upwards.
That's right, right, or sore upwards? Right? That takes so much. Ever,
that's for the rich. That's for like people who don't
have friends, like time for friends, yeah, time for pets.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah, that's for people who are like, oh, I'm a
concert clarinetist. Well congratulation, ys, go do that. Then by
your EF, I can't have a dog.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
Ar hat. I just I'm never home, I'm working all hours.
And it's like, well then you're living your life wrong.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, you need a pet, bring it with you bring
it to the symphony with you.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, let's teach it to parking play a horn instrument.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Wait, speaking of which, can I tell you sidebar that
I took my dogs to the dog beef.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yeah, which is like, I'm so jealous. We didn't take
my cats to the dog beach.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Shouldn't pitch they would not have a good time. But
although it is one big cat box, really I bet
they'd be like, whoa.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
I don't think that would happen.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Everywhere we go with Potla. But because it had rained
so crazy down here, there was so much garbage and
seaweed on the beach. Frank was like in Heaven. It
was like a mini beach garbage dump.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
What was in there?

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Well, there was one whole huge fish by just a
big dead fish.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
That's so cool.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Then there was lots of what looked it was pieces
of plastic that looked like they were from legs, pantyhose containers,
like the eggs. We're like, why are there so many
plastic eggs around? Then there was like a basically like
Kia futon frame. There's a little kid in the surf
that was pushing out a huge like what looked like

(07:57):
the gnarled base of an oak tree.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
And he was just it was like mom wears or Dad.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
They were like, oh, good a project. You go do
that in the in the riptide.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
One word pathogens. Yes, everywhere.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
One small cut on your foot.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
One tiny cut? Do you watch house? Go watch house.
They'll never trace that disease. I know all those beautiful
young doctors on the beach. Oh my god. And there
was like oil.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
It was really dirty. And I took my feet, I
took my shoes off, and then I was like, oh, Karen.
I didn't think about it until like I have forty
five minutes in. I was like, oh, I'm there's no
way I'm not gonna have some crazy mystery rash.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
This this podcast is going to change to my favorite
staff infection. Like tonight, get your friendly beat off my couch.
Everything's covered.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
I keep everything in surgical booties until I'm clear two
weeks clear too.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
This is what happens when you leave the house.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
Well, what would your favorite staff infection? Because there's a lot,
there's so many.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Good I really do love foreign body.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Foreign bodies. I like a good jump on a rusty nail.
I did that once in sixth grades.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
I don't like that.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
It was intense, but I think I did it because
I was at a slumber party that I didn't want
to be at.

Speaker 5 (09:11):
It was.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
It was very intensely Christian. I was like, I've got
to get out of here. And the next thing I knew,
I was like jumping in a field and I landed
on a rocky nail. I was like, well, like, I
got go my mom.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
Unless we can break into your parents slicker cabin and
just pour some alcohol on this or wherever.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
I think I need to be driven away from here,
whatever the medical procedure is, it's it's not going to
take place.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
It's not praying over my foot.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
No, it's not going to be with your weird Christian records.
Got to go, Love the Lord, see you at school.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
But I can't handle this. I'm watching a show on Netflix. Yeah,
it might be watching that everyone loves called The End
of the Filthy World. No, do you heard of it? No? Oh,
it's so good?

Speaker 2 (09:53):
What is it?

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Okay? It's like, okay, it's like if you took Harold
and Mad. Yeah, anti Wes Anderson.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
Anti like angry at Wes Anderson.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Like anti like cute and like kitchen in that way.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
But like no, shot is centered, nothing.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Is no, it's okay, maybe just Wes Anderson, but like
dark Wes Anderson, Okay, got it, okay, And then like
it's just like it's dark but like cute and cool.
It's like these it's really good and it's murdery and
there's these two young kids in it and they're like,
he looks like Harold's and Harold and mad and she's
super adorable and they maybe they murder someone. We don't know.
It's a really good show. I love it. Should I

(10:33):
read you the thing instead of telling you sure about it?
In my own special way?

Speaker 2 (10:37):
I feel like what you just did was very clear.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Listen. If I say it's good, it's probably good.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
I mean, I feel like you're batting. I'd say eight
for ten, sure, I get Where'd.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
I go wrong? I don't know. I couldn't give you
ten out of ten.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
I just couldn't.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Well, that's fair.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
Enough, because I'm again, I want you to climb. I
want things to be hard. I want you to earn it.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
If you compliment someone without a little bit of a
negativity and it, they're just gonna not try anymore. That's right.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
They're gonna get a big head. Huh, and you know
that's the worst thing that can happen.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
Then they're gonna show up a filibuster garden party with
hairs coming out of them everywhere.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
Oh look at me, I'm so pretty. I have a beard.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
No, this is wrong. What's happening. You're never going to
find a husband. You're Jessica mcclint to hawk your bress.
He's loved well, grow all together.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Oh sure, you can wear that dress all you want,
but the Laurel's not going to.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Land you a man. It's not the florals.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
No, it's the clear chin. It's a smooth chin and
a feminine chin. So shut up, shut it are what
are we doing?

Speaker 1 (11:41):
I don't know. What do you have to talk about?

Speaker 2 (11:44):
Okay, anything? Yeah I do. Two weeks ago, the last
in person upstairs, what do we call this podcast when
it's us not live? I talked about The Beast of
Jersey A somebody said. So, I was making conversation with
somebody and they were like, what was your last show about?
They had never listened to the podcast. They were just trying
to be polite, and I went into a synopsis of

(12:06):
what the Beast of Jersey was all about. And as
I was saying it, I was like, stop talking now.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
You were like, oh, they were being polite. They don't
want to know about the leather mask this person wore
plastic weird raybe that they raped out at anyone.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
They raped everyone they could get by themselves.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
Which is why. But I think people listen to this
podcasts and why you and I are doing it is
that we realize we can't talk to anyone about But
that's exactly right.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
We all have to meet here if you want to
have These are not dinner conversations. These are your friend's
new girlfriend.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Okay, this is like a podcast of I don't get
the face of someone who isn't interested when I tell
them about this, isn't it cool? And then but usually
they like they kill inside their own race, and they
didn't kill inside their own race anymore. And he did this,
that's amazing. Nobody wants to know about that. That's in
real life.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
People are like, anyhow, she's did you hear about the bomb?
So anyway, yeah, but as some of you know, I
did talk about the kind of cows because the islands
we were talking about were Jersey and Guernsey, and so
then I began to hold forth like a cow expert.

(13:17):
You are because.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
I am.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
I am a c plus cow expert. That's how much
I got it right. And I'm very angry and ashamed
because I grew up amidst cows. I had to smell
their Starbucks every day. It was all hay and cows
and now felfa and NonStop dairy. So the fact that
I got this wrong is both shaming and then also

(13:40):
I'm not sure why I keep.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
I mean, proximity doesn't equal farm knowledge. Knowledge very true.
Here we go, are you ready? Always this is from Gail.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Okay, she gets right into it. You're absolutely right about
the Jersey and Guernsey cattle breeds coming from the islands
in the English Channel, but a little not right about a.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Little not right.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
You're just a little not right, which is so accurate
about what those cows look like. Jerseys are the smaller
brown ones, and their babies look like little deer. They
are the cutest, even the groans are cute. Guernseys are
brown and white cows, and they aren't as common. The
black and white cows are whole steins. That's what I
was talking about okay. Both jerseys and Guernseys are known

(14:24):
for their rich and flavorful milk that is high in
protein and butterfat. Although the milk that you buy from
the store has been standardized in its nutrient composition by
removing fat, French adding it black government.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
So.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
The fat content French the government. So the fat content
is most important for making other dairy products besides milk.
Jerseys are particularly popular because even though they are small
and don't make as much milk as larger cows, they
are much more efficient and making milk. Think of them
as the preuses of dairy.

Speaker 5 (14:57):
Cattle, and I will from now on I'm a professor
of dairian animals.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Sorry.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Well, yes, so I was pretty tickle to hear you
guys talk about cows while I was simultaneously listening to
your podcast and scrambling to edit powerpoints about cows before
the semester starts. Like in her episode, that's it was
like made for her, She's.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Like, listen, I hate cereal rapists. Yeah, but here's my
chance to shine.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
But still I found something I could love here, and
that's what we try to do. This is what it's
all about. And then she said cheers to all and
especially the pets. Gail, And then in parentheses it says,
which in my case is a woman's scientist name.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
I don't know what that means. Oh, that's great, So
thank you, Gail.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
Also thank you Sarah, Emma, Ali and everyone who tweeted
us this correction. We got emails from Sarah, Emma and
Ali also that were all equally of his informative about cows.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
That's nice.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
So just so everybody knows, jerseys are the prettiest cows.
Guernseys are like Jersey's, less pretty cis.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Oh, now we're gonna get I'm going for it.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
Holstein's are black and white cows like from an old
country folk painting.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
Uh huh.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
And then uh, the ones I grew up with were Heifer's,
which are the orange and white ones I believe they are?

Speaker 1 (16:15):
Or maybe that's I have never known so much about
cows in my life.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
And and isn't it fun? Like you can now take
this straight to a dinner party.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yeah, instead of talking about murder.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
You go straight into listing cows in their colors.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
You know how everyone loves to talk about you. Just
wait for a nice pause in the conversation. Did you
know the ones that look like there are jerseys their happers.
And then you got French, they got roommate.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
French, the government.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
May I have that salt and pepper please, because can
I say correct? To correct? Nobody really, but just to
read this high ladies. And then in PREENTHESI says Stephen animals.
Oh and this is called some Montessori insight about Georgea's
dirty feet. Oh oh, here we go, blah blah blah,

(17:05):
really nice stuff. And then on episode one oh two
you mentioned attending Montessori schools and Georgia recalls having a
feet washing bucket as a Montessori teacher. I was cackling
in my car. This dirty feet scenario is totally not
a fever dream. The goal of Montessori schools is to
teach independence, life skills, and appreciation of nature. You are
lucky enough to go to get to go outside and

(17:25):
explore and learn, allowing those feet to get nasty. Bless
your teacher for allowing the children to wash their feet
water so fun. We only have a hand washing station.
I'm not nice enough to let my little ones take
their shoes off outside. Anyways. Thanks for all you do.
Stay sexy wash. Those feet don't get murdered, Jamie.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Well, Jamie, though, I bet that's smart because you don't
want like a child staff infections.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
Don't step on a blaming, rusty nail, do not.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
They'll jump on it just to get out of school.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Oh, definitely lazy.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
Anyhow, Oh I guess this last one. This is just
a fun an email. Yeah, it's Stephen pulled for us,
look and listen, David Fincher. Yeah, it's the subject line
from Gina. Hi, Ladies and honorary Lady Stephen Raymore.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
Steven's triumphantly raising his fists.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
So good. Was watching Seven for the first.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
Time, best time, Such a good movie you've had twenty
nine years I've watching.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Was watching seven for the first time and noticed this.
And then she pulled a screen cap and it's Morgan
free Men standing in front of broad pit, and the
line he's saying to him is I want you to
look and I want you to listen. Okay, And then
she back in the email says just saying, has anyone
ever seen Karen and Georgia in the same room as Morgan?

(18:43):
Karen and Morgan certainly share that deep, distinguished voice. Oh
my god, lots of love plus some sloth, greed, glut, me, etcetera. Gina,
that's everyone, so god, dog funny.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
If you haven't seen seven Murderingos, Young Murderingos, go watch seven.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Oh my god, if you haven't seen seven, creepy, This
conversation ends here.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, pause it, pose it. Go check your Go downstairs
and check your medicine cabinet. That's right, go back upstairs,
Go back upstairs to you? Why is your TV upstairs
in your bathrooms downstairs? It seems inconvenient.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, because a basement bathroom and in an attic TV
room is just hard for the family.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
Is your house only a basement in an attic? What
does that mean?

Speaker 2 (19:25):
Maybe you're a doctor SU's character. Do you have a
hat where the machines that clean the house come out
of it?

Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah, you might want to check your hat.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Check your flipping, shut your hat, and then check the
pot dog government man.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
Yeah, tell them about cows. Inform them who goes first?
This week?

Speaker 2 (19:43):
I think it's you?

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Right? Did I go what?

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Did?

Speaker 1 (19:45):
We had a live episode? Oh?

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yeah, but didn't we say what we were doing.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
We're not thinking first this week. I was counting on
going first this week, good because I had to do
it last week.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, I find it technically aid.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
Technically yeah, I think a bert you think. I think
going first is better because then I can catching chill
it shirt, oh, drink my sparkling wine. Oh you know
what I mean? Yeah, I do so, but I can't
go first every week because that would suck. Yeah, that
would suck.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
It does suck.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
It's like you kind of have to get everything up
off the ground, right all right?

Speaker 2 (20:15):
You set a tone. Yeah, and then I try to
intimidate you, but you really control the mood right now, just.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Kidding, thumbs down.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
No.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
The thing, too, is what if what if this is
your murder? What if my murder is your murder? And
I go get it first? Then you don't have to go.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
I can't wait. Then I just sit back and go like, yes, girl,
tell it.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, yeah, you forgot this part. Let me tell you
this thing. Okay, bad, okay, and now we can start,
all right. So I found this story and decided to
do it, and then really found out that it is
also an I Survived She's in a nice arrived episode. Yes,

(20:56):
so this is special for you, thank you. So I
watched the I Survived episode it was great. But also
I got a lot, like most of my information from
an article in the Willamette Week by Beth Slavic from
twenty sixteen. So cool, Thank you, Beth, good job. We're
proud of you. Okay, so this is the story of

(21:17):
Susan Kuhnhausen. Okay, any bells yet?

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Nope.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
I feel like I'm like reading to the master.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
Can I just do a quick brag?

Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (21:27):
My sister said last weekend, I think it was. She
was like, there's an I survived on that's amazing right now,
you need to watch it, a woman who escaped a
serial killer. And I wrote back, does she have red
hair in a green sweater? I've seen it already? And
my siter goes, oh, that was creepy, because I know, yeah,

(21:49):
I honestly have seen them all.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
Five times I've seen them, maybe two. Okay, you're the
queen of this. So I felt a little. But I
think that this is you know.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Do you mind if I will listen to you?

Speaker 1 (21:59):
And yes the whole time?

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, bring in when I think I know that's what
this podcast is.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yeah, girl, this podcast doesn't be quiet while I tell
you about the story.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
Please be quiet.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Interrupted you have any cricket out of me with incorrect guesses.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
This is the one time I've been interrupting you for
two years straight, but this is the one time we
were like, could you please be quiet? This isn't I survived,
it's actually.

Speaker 1 (22:20):
Really and wait literally two years straight today.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
That's right, it's our two year fun facts anniversar rate
God of existing, of existing and having real data personalities, Yeah, lives,
having an interest that we shared. Thought this could possibly
be interesting.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
First day of the rest of our lives. Insanely U
two years be bir Day.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Too high five Georgia Hardstar.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Thank you too, Karen Cot This Paul Giamadi podcasts would
be going to Montsori. No, it wouldn't. That's too young, right,
it's too young. But ulmost the care working daycare working moms. Yeah, listen,
we get Steve Stephen. Will you be this podcast nanny?
Stephen's the podcast nanny? I would think, so, Stephen, thank you, Yeah,
I'll take care of you.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
You would be a manny, right, oh right, right, right right, Stephen.
You came in what a year and a half, I
mean like six months.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
In my my I guess two years of course, he
knows there's a heart in his calendar. Oh yeah, it's
like a little like in my locker. It's like, yeah,
my two universaries in May. Okay. Yeah, well, well we're
going to say right now that we'll get you something
for your two anniversary, and then we won't, so.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Then we'll make up for it and it'll be even better.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yes, that's that's exactly all I can hope for. You've
ever want we do? Right? Yeah, exactly, you know how
we do? Love it? Yeah? Okay, all right, Susan Kuhenhausen, Okay,
here we go. On the evening of Wednesday, September sixth,
two thousand and six, fifty one year old emergency room
nurse of nearly thirty years, Susan Kunhausen ended her shift

(24:12):
at Providence Portland Medical Center and headed to her appointment
at Perfect Look hair Salon in East Burnside Street on
East Burnside Street, Portland. I guess you know what that is?
You already know, d'ian?

Speaker 2 (24:24):
No, no, no, I don't I know that area though,
the Burnside district.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
Oh okay, so Perfect Look it's our new hair salon.
It's so good, it's so good. Susan had moved to
Oregon in the early eighties. She settled in Portland, and
she was well liked by everyone who knew her. Of course,
everyone says she's outgoing, vivacious, she's this amazing nurse. She's
loved by everyone. In nineteen eighty eight, when she was
in her early thirties, Susan, along with a friend and

(24:48):
her mom's help, placed a singles ad in the Willamette Week,
which is what this I just realized is what this
article is from. Oh yeah about It's together.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
That's awesome, that's amazing. That's a very popular circular is
in Portland. I think it still exists.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, looking for and so she placed a singles ad,
which is how I used to find love. It's like before,
could you imagine?

Speaker 2 (25:11):
No, it's just like, oh, it's all like letters and
numbers and like, I'm a Taurus s.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
F s looking for d I think my mom put
one of those in in like Irvine Weekly or whatever.
In the eighties.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Did she get me? Did she catch any good fish?

Speaker 1 (25:27):
I'm sure she didn't, Jesus, because she dated were horrendous.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Were they sick?

Speaker 1 (25:33):
Name? You know? They were just like like single dads
in the eighties were creeps.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
You know what I mean, A lot of transition lenses,
a lot of mustards.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yeah, yeah, all right, this isn't about me, okay or
Janet Janet, It's always about Janet. Okay. So she wrote
looking for a quote someone different, and then about herself,
she wrote overweight but not over life, which I love
so much.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
There's your there's like a that's a necklace instead of
like live laugh love overweight but not over life.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Not over life. And then you kick a stranger in.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
The dicksize by your necklak.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Can you know the website Reductross. But I'm just like
they're sprankers. Yead lines make me laugh so harder than
their articles. It's like it's like the Onion for women.
Yes there they have like merch now and one of
their they have a shirt that has an arrow and
it's up to the arrow goes to your face and
it says, my vagina's up here.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
They had one after the Golden Globes that said zero
quotes for men about the Me Too movement.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
So funny, it's so good. Okay, someone different, overweight but
not over life, seeks s M who wants more out
of a relationship than just quote slender girl. Yes, wow, godness.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Is in the late eighties when none of these attitudes
are allowed.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
No, you go to Red Flag jazzer size and you
you diet and reduce or you're nothing and no one.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
It's blaming our bust everybody. It was a hard time.
But then meanwhile we were being tricked into ingesting fake
diet food that was actually filled with sugar, so like
we all thought New York Seltzer was diet. Yeah, and
we're like, this is so delicious that you drink like
seven of them and it's just like.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
Drinking go right, and then you scream at your kids. Yeah, okay, okay.
Thirty nine year old Mike Coonhnsen responded, and about him,
Susan said, quote, he had a nice voice. I was impressed.
He wanted to talk about deeper things, which I wrote
red Flag. You know, no he doesn't.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
He goes straight to poetry.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Get out of there. Deeper things, deeper than what than what? Okay.
Their first day was in February nineteen eighty eight. Mike
Mike was adopted as a newborn in nineteen forty eight,
grew up in Portland. He told Susan he saw combat
in Vietnam, but military records list him as a switchboard operator.

Speaker 5 (27:51):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Within the year, they drove to Reno to get married.
So she marries this dude, Mike Kuhnhamhausen. Okay, it quickly soured,
she said, quote it wasn't long after. Way a second,
wait a second. Don't give it away for the listeners
at home. I won't. I think I'm just saying give

(28:12):
me a give me like a keyword. She finds him
in the house. No, okay, but close, I think you
do know you're just not there yet. Okay, we gotta
get you for a little further. And then you're like yes, okay, no, no, no, no.
It wasn't very long after we got married that there
was no more hiking, no more going out. Yeah, because

(28:33):
people say they're into Shark week, that they're not into
Shark week, and then in a year they're sick of you,
which is why you need to start a relationship, saying
I like to sit at home and binge, watch anime
with my cats, and get takeout.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yeah, what's past like topical weekend interest. Yeah, that's the
reality of the relationship.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Nobody likes to hike.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
No, it's total dating bulls, black, stupid, it's really dumb.
It's for single, desperate, thirsty people literally literally.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
Married.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
Within a few years of the wedding, Mike got a
new job as a janitorial supervisor for Oregon Entertainment, the
parent company of Fantasy Adult Video. So basically he started
working for an adult video company as the genitor, which
has to be like a bomber job, Like, you don't
come home from that kicking your heels and I'm your wife.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Even if it's all paper products, I'm like guys and ties,
there is still a level of light scum, I would
say on everything that he that was his job just
to mop off totally literally and figuratively.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yeah, okay. So he starts slowly revealing to her in
the early years that he'd never really been happy his life. Philosophy,
she says, was life's a nasty sandwich and every day
you take another bite until you die.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Flipping Thanks Garfield, Jesus Christ, this is why.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Everyone needs to go to therapy and get pharmaceuticals. Yes,
well not everyone, but this guy clearly. I mean, it's
just so sorry. That's all of life to you.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yeah, like you're not gonna you have that attitude and
you're not going to do anything to change it.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Like take a chill pill, and by chill pill, I
mean a flapping.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
Zola, slip the up, anything something, help yourself.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
Okay, Mike chain smoked. He also pounded diet coxed, which
is like, is that why are you being a dick
about it? He was very controlling. He would found Susan
about her plans when she went out, and he kept
track of her spending and complained about all her purchases,
which is like, shut up, I need to go to
perfect look every two weeks or you're gonna tell me

(30:38):
I look like chips and dip.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yes, exactly. Also, she is an emergency room nurse. Yeah,
she's pulling down the union wage. She's doing very well.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Yeah, your fantasy adult working video store is not the
same wage.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Probably not so.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
The spending discussion, anyway, let's talk about marriage.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
Okay. Seventeen years in their Susan is like heay, they're snickers.
She said, I cared about him, but I didn't want
to live with him anymore. I wanted to be happy again.
So in September two thousand and five, she kicks on
the hunk out of the house and he moves into
his father's home. But Susan never changes the locks or
the alarm code, which was their anniversary.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
Well, why would she. It's her husband, right, she thinks
she knows.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
And has a relationship with right. Okay, so she wasn't surprised.
After her hair appointment, she gets home, she's still in
her scrubs. It's six thirty seven pm. She lives in
Montevilla neighborhood. Comes home, finds a note by the microwave
from Mike because they're still talking and stuff, saying, Sue,
I haven't been sleeping, had to get away, went to
the beach. He said he'd see here on Friday or Saturday.

(31:43):
Love me, he says. So Susan disarms the alarm, goes
through the house to the front, grabs her mail, and
she comes back inside and looks through the house to
her bedroom and sees that it's really good night dark
in her bedroom normally, and she's like, oh, I thought
I've opened the drapes that morning. That's like something is off.
She knew it immediately in the in the ant insect
part of her brain.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Well, there's what is scarier than that? When you're standing
in your house and there's something off. There's something that
you didn't do that That is like I always have
a lamp. There's a one lamp I never turn off.
And if that, if that were off, if I came
home and that were off, I would be like, well,
I would think I got my electricity turned off, which
happens constantly.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
But my thing is like if my cats aren't if
one of the cats aren't greeting me, there's something wrong
in the house. Yes, you know, like they're scared. There's
there's a.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Reason if my dogs aren't there barking at the window
like I'm the mailman, I think they're both dead, like
I picture they ate chemicals, they ate whatever. Like I
get through a whole thing of trying to go into
acceptance about losing both dogs at the same Jesus, and
then Georgia like walk.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
Up like what I whan I was sleeping the other day,
Vincement came home and the whole house smelled like cigarettes,
like someone had just smoked a cigarette or was smoked
a cigarette in the house. It was really wapping, and
like went room to room and looked everywhere and what
was did you have a window open. No, I don't
know what it was. It was probably someone in the
hallway or something.

Speaker 5 (33:10):
Wait.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
I think we've talked about this already, But did I
ever tell you about my friends who live in New
York and they they are the producers of Eugene Mermon's
comedy festival HU, And they put a camera in their
house because they in their apartment, they kept noticing little
things moved, and so finally they put this a camera

(33:34):
in their house that would switch on if there was
a movement. Yeah, and so the guy was at work,
it switches on. Their landlord just is going into their
house walking around, and she's it's one of the creepiest videos.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
They showed it to me.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
And she's just really slowly walking around and looking at everything.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
And she like at one point walks upstairs which is
just their bedroom, and is up there for like three
minutes and then comes down. I never told you about
that now, and then she just leaves. But it was
like one of the creepiest, weirdest things I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
How Come she was moving shampoo.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
It's like she would she would look over like for
a while, she'd look at pictures, or she'd like lean over.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
She was just snooping around. So I'm sure one time she.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Like pick up a magazine at it and put it down,
thinking they'll never notice.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
Oh my god, isn't that amazing. You know that's happened
in your life? Oh my god? Right, like someone's gone
through her.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
She's in crackers.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
When I was a kid, when I was like a
certain there was a certain young part period in my
life when I was like twelve, we're all I forking.
It was snoop through my fake family sinkhole. Yes, just snoop.
It was so much fun.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
I would always go through my mom's night stand drawer
because there was always weird, super random dryer lint in there,
but there was never anything good. But it would be
like if I dig back here far enough, there'd be
something weird where I'm like.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
Is this sexual? I'm not sure?

Speaker 2 (35:00):
And it never was. It was like never what I
wanted it. One time I thought I found a porn
under my parents' bed and I pulled it out and
it was just an exercise like these.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
Video day. Yeah, I was going to say a vcr
My friend and I went through we It was during
this time and I had a friend who was like, yeah,
let's go through my mom than too, and we both
had single moms, and we found like it must have
been given to her as a gag gift, because now
that I'm older, I'm like, no one would use those
on themselves. It's disgusting. But at the time they were like,

(35:32):
I think we like stopped looking through people's stuff after
we found this box of like weird dildo attachments. Yes,
we were both like oh no, yeah, and never talked
about it again.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
That's the thing that you learn depending from somewhere between
when you're eleven and fourteen, yeah, which is you can
go ahead and snoop all you want, but there's a
you have to land on the other side of snooping, yeah,
which is not only that you're a snooper and you
could get caught, yeah, known as that.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
Yeah, and you know something, Yeah, there might be big
feelings you don't want to know.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
You're not even imagining what you wouldn't want to know
and managing that. You're just being like, I know what
this is going.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
To amount to. Yeah, don't do it, do not or
I mean do but just know that.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
But then you have to die with some secrets. You
could snoop up a secret that you're then you're just like, well.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
A podcast that and talk about it years later. It's true. Okay,
this isn't about me. This is about Susan. That's right,
disarming her alarm. It's dark in her room. She goes
to her room. This is your last chance to guess
what this is.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
I know what this is because sorry, Mike is not
in the house.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
No. Okay, but but your but I know what you know?
You think, okay, you know, but you have no idea.
From behind the bedroom door, a man suddenly lurches towards it.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
It's a hired guy. Sorry, sorry, sugar.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Okay, Susan doesn't recognize his face. He's got dockers, a
blue striped shirt on, and a tan baseball hat pulled
down over his eyes. He has yellow rubber gloves on
his hands and is carrying a red and black claw hammer, clawhammer, clawhammer.
He swings the flaming hammer, and his first blow lands
on her left temple.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
Okay, you hire a hit man. And he's like, here's
how I'm gonna do it.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
I'm gonna bludge in her to death.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
I'm gonna I choose to bludge in a person as
opposed to just shoot them and get it out of here. Yes, yeah,
horrify yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
So using her instincts and her three decades of experience
in the er where Karen all the e Yar nurses
are trained regularly in self defense, learning how to slip
out of headlocks and clutches. Wow, Susan knows instinctively to
crowd her attacker, not to like cower and back off
because the blows land shifty. If Saser, you are the

(37:55):
closer you are, that's just I'm not this, don't legal.
I am not telling you to do anything when you
get attacked, et cetera. Yeah, and that would have less
force the swings of the hammer if she's not. If
she's super close to him, she flipping screams at him,
who are you? What do you want? She's yelling at him,

(38:16):
but he doesn't answer. Susan's only five foot four, so
she's five inches shorter than the man, and she has
two bad knees from reped in injuries and her excessive weight.
She's clearly stated in her in her singles bad she
out but she outweighed him because he was super skinny,
So she says she slams her body up against his

(38:38):
attempts to push him over, but he doesn't fall. Instead,
he pushes Susan against the bedroom wall, then says the
only phrase that he ever said, He's going to say
that night, secretly between you and me, the last leaping
thing he'll ever say. Oh, you're strong, You're strong. And

(38:59):
she said that the phrase sends surges of adrenaline through
her because she said quote. With hearing this phrase, she says,
he's here to kill me. She realized at that moment.
I don't know why, I don't know who he is,
but his intent was clear and those are his last words. Ever. Oh.
Susan pushes him again and says, who sent you? She
wrestles the hammer from him, and she swings the claw

(39:22):
three or four times into his skull from she got
the collecting hammer. Yes, He grabs it back, and so
Susan grabs his throat and says who sent you here?
Squeezing his throat, His face turns red and purple, and
then he goes blue. Susan freaks out at that moment

(39:44):
and lets go and tries to run. He catches her, though,
as she's running from the bedroom they're in this narrow
hallway together, he spins her around and punches her, splitting
her lip. Punches her again and she falls to the
floor and when she looks up, he's standing over her
with the hammer. And at the moment she thinks, I'm
going to die today.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Why did she let go when his face was blue?

Speaker 1 (40:04):
I mean, people don't want to kill people.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
True, but not great.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
I know, at least make him pass out. I mean, yeah,
but like you think close enough, right, the fact that
he was able to get up, I guess.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
So I always think I'm smarter than people and death
near death situations.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
So she knows she needs to get the hammer from him,
so she pulls him to the floor with her. So
he's standing over her and she's wham, pulls him to
the ground her. That's brilliant, I know. She starts to
bite him in her mind, thinking I know I'm going
to die, but I'm enough shucking maybe teeth marks that
people know that he like can find him. Yeah, So
she wrestling on the floor together. She bites his arm,

(40:42):
his flank, in his thigh, and bites through his shucking zipper,
to his flopping hot dog, to his dick. They can't
write that in the will I'm at probably probably not.
At the same time, she's going through his pockets looking
for ID so she can like throw his wallet under
the bed, so like the cops will know who it is.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Jesus. No, well, you know what, the er her working
in an er probably prepped her for so many.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
There's no time to panic. Yeah, yeah, real click, clear,
thinker and horrible. Here's exactly she said. I was like
a downed power line snapping on the pavement. How cool
is that? Wow? I know the fight at this point
had lasted. You know how long this fight has gone on?
How long can you think ding fight for?

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Do you think I would give it a good nineteen minutes?

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Okay, never mind it's fourteen.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Oh but however, that's you're gonna say like six hours.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
I can't even do five minutes of cardio, all right, so.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
We'll edit that out and then I'll say six minutes.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
Okay, okay, great. They're both wedged on their sides in
the small hallway. She throws a leg over his body,
climbs on top of him, hooks her left arm around
his neck's neck so she's got on a sweaty choke
hold WW style says, tell me who's sent Tell me
who sent you here? And I will call you, oh ambulance.

(42:02):
And all he did was growl. And then she says,
when I realized I was not going to ever regain
the hammer, it came to me that I need I
needed to become the weapon. Holy heck, growl up, she says.
She leans forward, tightens her form against his throat, and
he stopped moving. She grabs the hammer and runs outside

(42:22):
of the neighbors. They call nine one one. Here's a
quote from the nine to one call. Do you need
an ambulance? Says? They said, do you need an ambulance?
And the neighbor said no. She's a nurse, she says,
call an ambulance for the guy. He may be dead.
She's like, aha, fine, but she is not. She is
she doesn't know. She doesn't feel like as much of
a bad cookie about this as we think of her

(42:44):
as a bad hooky. She's like, freak the flip out
about it. Of course, of course, I mean not just
that this happened to her, but that she killed the dude.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
Right, Okay, Well so that's I mean, that's a horrible burden.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Yes, So the man was dead his name's His name
was Edward Halfy. He was a fifty nine year old
Vietnam veteran. On off Top, she showed he had a
near lethal dose of cocaine in a system when he died.
Relatives and friends told police he'd been raised in an
upper middle class home and was an avid tennis player.
So something quite bad happened, and I bet it's cocaine. Yeah,

(43:18):
he recently lived or Vietnam. He recently lived in a
trailer on northeast Killingsworth Street and had a long rap sheet.
In Susan's basement. They find Ed's backpack and inside is
a container of Hershey syrup, what two hundred dollars in cash,
diabetes pill and a day book and a paytub. So
court records show that fifteen years earlier, on February twenty eighth,

(43:40):
nineteen ninety one, this guy, Edward Hafey arranged the murder
of his ex girlfriend, thirty nine year old Georgia Lee Dutton.
Where that my name is Georgia and my sister's nickname
is Lee. Yeah, not really a little bit, a little
bit touch of weird, let's go a little. Her decomposed
body was later found along the Quah River. That's right,

(44:02):
is that right? Yea near Roseberg. So I tried to
look up details about her murder because I wanted to
say some more about her, but I can't find anything
at all. So he had pled guilty to conspiracy to
commit aggraated murder in nineteen ninety four and spent the
next nine years in the Eastern Oregon Correctional Institution. And
he had been released in November of two thousand and
three for murder. Oh god, okay, oh my good. After

(44:26):
you got out, he moved to Portland and in July
two thousand and four was hired by none other than
our trash friend Mike koon hants Hawsen the worst last
name of his name to clean floors at adult at
Fantasy Adult Video.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
Oh so they were work mats.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
They were workmates. So which is where the pay dub
in his backpack was from? Oh okay, okay. There's also
a day book that had an entry that said call
Mike for September fourth, two thousand and six, along with
Mike's new cell phone number. So like, not a good murderer, No,
one's covering anything. Not a good hit man, no, and
he got killed instead well.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
I mean the claw, the claw hammer is the indicator.
This is not a hit man, This is like a lunatic.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
Yeah, definitely. So. On September eighth, Mike left a suicide
note at his father's house, saying all I ever wanted
was to be loved, and every time I had it,
I whacked it up. No, dude, you're a piece of Ryerland.
Don't feel forking sorry for yourself.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Yeah, this is not the time for if you've arranged
the murder.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
Of your ex wife that.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
Yeah, it's not the time to talk about how hard things.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
Are for you, right and how bad it is that
you whack things up. So then he takes off. Ten
am on September thirteenth, a deputy finds Mike in the
parking garage of a Kaiser. Mike says, he's checking himself
in Kaiser.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Yeah, they won't have they'll have you there for ten minutes.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
Max, well to a psychiatric hold.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
Oh sorry, whatever, I didn't realize Kaiser had any psychiatric
services available.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
Let's go try it. I will right now, I will.
So police put him an involuntary psychiatric hole. Then they
put him under arrest for conspiracy commit murder. Obviously at
a motive. He had lost his job weeks earlier, he
had no place to live. Susan had named her brother
as a beneficiar in her life insurance policy, which is
so smart because she was like, I'm divorced, Like she
must have had some yeah, you know, and Mike knew that.

(46:24):
But Susan and Mike had paid off that house and
it was worth about three hundred thousand dollars and it
would be all his if Susan died, so he Mike
claims he has nothing to do with it, but there's
no signs of fourth century at Susan's home, and the
security record showed someone had disabled the alarm while Susan
was at work. Mike later said he had just dropped
the note off, but they were like, you let this

(46:46):
killer inside me. He's like, no, no, I didn't.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
Oh the note was like his cover of like the
yeahs that I was there, but it wasn't my thing.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
I was there and I disabled the alarm, but it
was so I could leave this note. And they're like, yeah,
but clearly you just let this guy in.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
At the same time, and also they're getting a divorced
or divorced Why would.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
She give it snickers?

Speaker 2 (47:03):
If he's going somewhere like right, tell me when you
get back that you went somewhere.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Right. No, it's very it's very stupid. Yeah, so blah
blah blah, all these other little things happen, and we
know it's him. The promise was a fifty thousand dollars
pay day for this, the dude who killed her, who
got killed. On August thirtieth, two thousand and seven, Mike
pleads guilty to solicituding.

Speaker 2 (47:24):
Solicituding maybe Susan's.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
Murder, Okay, and that so the hitman's aunt writes a
letter to Susan in twenty ten, after all this takes place, saying,
although this was a terrible thing that happened, no one
in this family has any bad feelings towards you. You
did what you were forced to do, and in doing so,
you spared many from the same trauma you experienced. That's right.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
Oh my god, that's incredible.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
I know. So Susan filed for divorce the day after
Mike's arrest. Oh they were just separated. Yeah, they had
divorced you, okay, okay, And by twenty fourteen, she had
moved to a new Portland home and like a crazy
out of the way cul de sac. She said, she
felt like a quote a broken plate glued back together. Oh, like,
she's just it's so sweet that she's so heartbroken about

(48:15):
having to kill someone, even though the person she killed
out of self defense was the person who was sent
to murder.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
Her, the person who attempted to murder her.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Yeah, she's justified us for runch And what an amazing person.
And we all hope that we would act the same
way in such a situation. And we're in awe of
her that she did that, and it doesn't really feel
that way. I think when it happens. Is what this
shows us.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
Right, it's like, first that's that's the effect that has
on us, right as first person.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
Especially as a nurse who's like trained to save lives.
That's her point in life.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
Yeah, that's exactly right, And she's and she understands why
people get into the situation where they're like, I'm doing
so much coke, I think it's okay to kill someone.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Yeah the claw hammer, Yeah, oo the worst. So she's
super parano at this time. She says, I'm doing a
life sentence for picking a bad husband, which is likely.
Don't put that on you.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah, we're all broken plates.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
That's the thing. We're all broken plates. We're all broken plate.
We've never been whole plates. Yeah, maybe right when we
were born.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
But yeah, somewhere around. Yeah, I mean it's different from
everybody too. Like this podcast, for me, I would say,
was it really was preteen?

Speaker 1 (49:28):
That's when when they broke. I was just like, what
the frank is happening? Yeah? I see that. I think
when we first have memories, like you have a memory
because something happens true, you know, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Yeah, I think I mean five or six, I think
for me.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
But her, Yeah, that experience would be that's something you
really have to work through.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
Yes. So Mike is supposed to be released on September fourteenth,
twenty fourteen. So she's freaking the flake. Yeah. She puts
gravel all around her house so she can hear any footsteps.
She practiced shooting out of shooting range, and she said
if he came here, he was not going to get
close enough to hurt me. So can you imagine how

(50:09):
terrifying that is? Then, ninety two days before his release
on Friday the thirteenth of twenty fourteen, Mike died of
prostate cancer in prison at sixty five years old. Shirt. Yeah,
so her name is now Susan Walters. She continued to
work as a nurse until December twenty fourteen. And today
she's a motivational speaker and provides self defense expertise for

(50:31):
Portland Police Bureaus, Women's Strength and Girl Strength programs. Yes,
and she's a go to expert on victims for rights. Yeah,
she's an advocate and focus it's on developing a web
based portal for crime victims. That portal provides a protected
single point for victims to receive updates about their offenders. So,
you know, like the people are like, no one told

(50:53):
me he was getting out of prison or today was
his parole hearing. I could have gone to and said
what happened? You know you can follow that now. Yeah,
that's a amazing, that's so important. Victims of crime, crime
in Maul oh, god, everyone Malt and Malnoma, Maltnomah County
is that right can now follow their case, their offenders
and access resources through the website. It's casecompanion dot org.

(51:16):
And I think every fabulous city should have this. That's incredible,
she said, Susan says surviving the event itself is difficult.
Surviving a prolonged and protracted criminal justice journey is also
equally hard, which we like totally. That's amazing, She said,
being an imperfect woman, I married an imperfect man, thinking
that we could love, honor and negotiate and have a

(51:38):
good life together. But he had issues around abandonment, anger,
and anxiety that he couldn't overcome. She says that she
and the family of my hopes that he finds the
peace he didn't find in this world in death. And
that's the story of Susan Kuhnhausen. Wow, that's amazing, and
there's a survivor I survived about it. Yeah, that's good.

(52:01):
I watched and it's good. But there's another story in it,
one of the other two stories that's really fuckling depressing.
Which one it's a girl who's closing up like the
store she works in and gets held up and like
they never found the person. It's just like really and
she's so fragile and like clearly like not ready to

(52:21):
talk about it.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Yeah, there's that show is so good, it's so perfectly produced,
it's so well done. But there are I would say
about five where I watch and go, yeah, isn't ready
and isn't It's beautiful that they're doing it for themselves,
because I bet it's a great step for them.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
And for other I'm sure other people listen to it
and hear it and see this woman telling the story
and they're so empowered by her. Yeah, but she just
seems so fragile, and it was It made me really sad.
But it's also the reality of it. Yeah, it's the
reality of it totally is yeah. I yeah, it's so good. Yea.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
That show is incredible.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
And then there was a family who's clam boat like capsized.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Cool too, I dipped into a frozen river. It's like, okay,
and I feel bad for you.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
But there's a.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
Woman who's fighting off of nasty claw hammer. We need
to get back to her.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
We can we real quick, real quick.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Those are always the stories that end. First you notice
that the boat people the boat capsized, they get rescued,
and then they're like, well, God helped me out of
the ocean. Awesome, we'll talk to you later.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
Hey, Susan, what did God not help you out of?
Can you tell us God help them out of the ocean?
What did you ever do?

Speaker 2 (53:37):
She's like, well, I became an emergency room nurse and
bang nailed some.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Bug to the wall. Yeah she did.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Oh it's intense. Yeah, all right, Well I went a
little cultee with mine for this week. Good, I think,
because somebody recommended on Twitter and I'm sorry I didn't
write your name down because I get very uh defensive
when people recommend British procedurals to me, as you know,

(54:06):
because I'm always like, how dare you come to me
with a wall under recommendation?

Speaker 1 (54:10):
We've talked about this a lot, but I still like
it more. What let's talk about it more. Let's let's
really do a deep dive. This is about you.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
But somebody recommended a show called Silent Witness and it
is basically a it's like a law and Order in
England where there are on iTunes. It's season one through
four and then season like seventeen through twenty nine, like
it's been on four. It's a procedural all time. It's
a procedural and it's basically about the corner and the

(54:38):
medical examiner.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
And who's the silent witness the corner.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
The corner, medical examiner or maybe the dead body, dead body,
any answers anyway, it's a cat.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
There's a cat that lives in corners.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
Cat like a Badega cat, but in the word just as.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
Up on a shelf. Can I just say there's a
there's an instagram called Bodega cats of Instagram. Yeah, and
it's made me never want to eat out a bodega
again because just the photos, I mean, they're adorable. But
cat's dream bowls on everything on Adego. Like any snappy
bag of gardettos peppercorn chips, you get a cat's and
adega cat's dream bole.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
Just do a quick chlorox wipe prints on the outside
of that bag.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
I can never lick a bag of gardettas again. That's
how you pick.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
What flavor you want. Because you lick the outside.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
It tastes like what they're supposed to taste like.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
Right, that's right, The outside tastes like the inside, just
like people. I love filthy New York City bodegas so
much as a country girl who we always lived five
miles away from anything good. Yeah, when I lived in
New York, the idea that I could walk down the
stairs from my apartment and literally forty feet to the

(55:52):
corner and go in and get a bag of taats.
They always have tats, they always have hair bo weird.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
Like brand of ice cream sandwiches yep. And the word
bodega sounds so cool.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
It sounds very much like Hi, I'm an art student.
I sometimes free based coke, but I also just love
to come and get an Italian sub sandwich. Oh yeah, okay,
So anyway I went. I went because I had watched
I think four seasons of Silent Witness, and there were
some it's such it's very dramatically produced, and there's a
lot of like her just standing over a dead body

(56:25):
being like, you know, the victim is in a in
rigor where you're like, okay, this is very real, Like yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
It's because it's boring.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
It's a touch boring, get it. They're not afraid to
go boring in English, because that's what it's really like,
because it's real. There's one where it was about a
bunch of people who died on a boat and then
every time so they were just sitting there waiting at
the harbor, waiting for the dead bodies to get transported
in from the ocean, and then every time it would
there would just be this terrible horn that would sound.

(56:55):
And I was like, I bet this is what really happens.
This is awful, Like this is when I turn it
off exactly because You're like, I don't want to experience this.
Maybe it will happen to me someday. So how about
I don't go through it now?

Speaker 3 (57:07):
Right?

Speaker 1 (57:07):
I don't want to hear ooh ahead, and my Frid
Willard show that I'm watching, why do they keep driving
dead bodies up in these jeloppies.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
It's not funny, it's not I don't appreciate it, Okay.
So anyway, I had a lot of that. So then
I was like, let's take a nice left turn and
go into a little cult area.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
Great, and I thought about.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
The one that I've always been obsessed with, which is
the Order of the Solar Temple.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
So this was the one where on October fourth, nineteen
ninety four, and this was on so remember back ninety four,
remember it it was on all the news.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
I don't remember this, Okay, get ready.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
Because you might as I encourage you to yell out
when you remember.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
I'm going to you don't have to encourage me, okay.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
So October fourth, nineteen ninety four. It's a place called
Morn I'm assuming it's pronounced more in Heights. It's a
ski resort near Montreal, and authorities are called to the
scene of a burning condominium and when they get inside
put the fire out, they find two charred dead bodies.
So they look up who owns the condominium and on

(58:14):
the whatever mortgage papers, oh this the signage page area. Yeah, uh,
the owners are two men, Joseph de Mombro and Luke Gerret,
So they assume that's these two charred bodies are the owners.
But then as the investigators make their way through the

(58:36):
burned condominium apartment, they find three more bodies in the
back of the house in like stacked in a closet,
and those bodies are identified as a man named Tony
Dutoit or Dutois, and his wife Nikki and their three
month old son, Christopher Emmanuel. Are they burned to or

(58:56):
they they're burned? But then once the investigators start looking
into it, they realize that the front two bodies and
the back bodies are all covered in blood, so before
they burned, they were covered in blood.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
So then they're like something actually happened here. Well, then
on Tony's body, he was stabbed over fifty times in
the back. Holy Nikki was stabbed in the chest and
like upper body area, like six or seven times. Oh
my god, this is the worst part. The baby was
stabbed in the heart with a wooden steak. So they're like,

(59:35):
what fake a culture week is going on here?

Speaker 1 (59:38):
I have never heard this before. It's it's bad, tell
me everything, Okay.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
So then they realize that one of the two bodies
that they found originally up in the front of the house,
one of them is a woman. So they're like, I
don't think this is the owners. Something insane happened here.
So they put out arrest warrants for the owners because
they had. The police discover that all five of these
people were members of the Order of the Solar Temple,

(01:00:05):
which was a very secretive sect founded by the two
men on the owner's papers, Joseph de Mombro and Luke Cheat.
Then the police find out that Tony and his wife
Nikki had recently left the cult after speaking out against
these leaders, and so that's when the cops are like, okay,
we got to arrest these guys, but they're nowhere to
be found the next day, or it's the same lilt's

(01:00:28):
see it's October fifth in the Swiss village of Cirie.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Is how it's pronounced.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
There's a farmhouse that's on fire, and when the firemen
in this Swiss village go there and put it out,
they find the owner inside. He's slumped over the kitchen
table and there's a plastic bag over his head. So
they think, oh, no, he's an elderly farmer and he's
committed suicide. Then they find a gunshot wound in the

(01:00:58):
back of his head and they're like so, then as
they inspect the house, they start finding incendiary devices all
over the house, and then they start looking in the
outbuildings on the property. So there's more buildings aside from
the farmhouse. They start to investigate these buildings. They also
have these incendiary devices in them, and one of them,

(01:01:20):
one of the cops, observes that the outside of the
building is really big, but when they go in, it's
really small. There's just a small space and it's like
an office that looks really busy. It looks like there's
people that come there to work every day or whatever.
But it's compared to the outside. They're like they start
looking for secret panels and they find one, and basically
what happens is an entire section of wall is found

(01:01:44):
to be able to slide back.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
On the other side of this wall they find a
huge secret chamber. It's decorated floor to ceiling in red.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
It has these weird mirrors on every wall that at
the top are kind of shaped a little bit like
I don't know what the word is. It's like that,
you know, like the top of a Turkish turret or whatever,
where it looks like a Hershey's kiss, but swoopy fatter.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Anyway, it's all like ritualized. There's weird these weird stands,
like lecterns that are gold that are in there, and
there's they so basically it's all obviously used for some
kind of religious.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
Rites, straight up. Culti diairy duty, culti jury duty.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
There's champagne bottles on the ground and in the middle
of the floor arranged in a like star formation feet
in the center head of the outside are eighteen corpses
eighteen eighteen. They're all wearing either red, gold or black
ceremonial capes and some have plastic bags over their heads.

(01:02:50):
Then they find another a second secret room. There's three
more bodies inside that room, and there's a ton of
blood in both rooms. The police basically start putting.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
Together upon that no, it's a something on a secret
hidden room. Yes, like which is awesome. The Moller coaster.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
Of emotions that cop went through where he's like, I'm
the one that hey, and then they slide the wall
back and it's like, well.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Here you go, Yeah, this is what you wanted.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Here's your secret room friend. So they realize that this
is obviously a ritualized mass suicide, but there's so much
blood in the room, they're like, oh, this wasn't voluntary
for a lot of these people. Yeah, and most of
the people had been killed by gunshot once to the
head that were not self inflicted. So that's how they

(01:03:39):
start putting together that this was perhaps non voluntary suicide
or as we like to call it, murder. Okay, nonvoluntary,
the worst kind of suicide. Non voluntary. I am a professional,

(01:04:00):
it's like cop okay. So then two days later, one
hundred miles away in the Swiss resort village of Grange
Sir Salvent, thank you so much, do you know it
sounds nothing like that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Yeah, but it sounds better when you say it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
I just I'm trying to sell it like I'm a
waitress at a fancy French cafe.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
Right, would you like a croc monsieur or a.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
Y okay so, which is French for baked onion.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
The fire department is called to now three adjacent chalets
that are all on fire, and inside each they find
early similar scenes to the Serie fire. This time twenty five.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
Bodies are discovery I get.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Including three teenagers and four children. And most of these bodies,
these victims have been poisoned and they're all identified through
a dental records to also be members of the Order
of the Solar Temple. And in this situation, only fifteen
of the forty seven were true suicides.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
The rest were murders.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
So now the search for the co founders of the
Order of the Solar Temple goes international. So basically this
cult was founded by this guy, Joseph de Moombro, who
was born in southern France. He studied to be a
clockmaker and a jeweler, but he always had interests in
the occult and when he was in his thirties, he
joined the Rosicutions or the Order of the Rosy Cross,

(01:05:30):
and it's another So there's all these secret cults or
sex that are based on the Knights Templar. So the
Knights Templar were the knights who went on the first
Crusades and they came back and then they were so
dedicated to this spreading of Christianity down into the Middle

(01:05:52):
East that they began to protect. It was like they
vowed to protect all these Christian pilgrims that were going
going down into the Middle East, so they would they
basically kind of were out there protecting people. But they
also made a ton of money because of the because
of the Crusades, they were just out there, you know,
obviously killing and pillaging and doing all their stuff, so

(01:06:15):
they became very rich. Then their power, they were so
well regarded that they became really powerful, and of course
then the popes are like, who are these mother corn nuts,
We're supposed to be the most powerful, So then they
became hunted and then that's when they went underground, and
it was all secret, secret, secret. So that's what all
these people and that's kind of like the like the
Dan Brown books and stuff where it's all the Knights

(01:06:36):
Templar this, and the Knights Templar that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
If the guy, if the guy or gal who does
animate my podcast would animate that part of you telling
me explaining to me the Crusades.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Because it's I would say, I would guess right now,
and hopefully there was a history professor listening. Oh yeah,
I think I probably got that fifty seven percent right.
I think I would have passed it asked, but not
well A D plus, A D plus, which is pretty
much my aage.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
And it would make you happy now and the repressed
that you're not supposed to be happy about.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
That pass bye, past bye. And I never thought I
could because I can't read, so definitely let me know
all the information I'm missing in the three hundred years
that the Knight's Templar were in action. But essentially it
became that thing. And we've all seen the Dan Brown

(01:07:31):
what is that book that I can't think of? The
DIVINCHI thank you, Steven Stephen loves literature. But it's just
this idea that essentially they were protecting Mary Magdalene, who
was carrying Jesus's baby. You know, that's like at the
end of the day that is supposedly the what do
they call that?

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
The truth? The Bible?

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
True?

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
What's the cup? The Kiddish cup? Thank you?

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
The Holy Grail is Jesus's baby, right, it's.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
Also called the kiddish cup. We had it first. Oh
that's true. So don't come at me with yeah, you
explained it to me.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
I'm a forking know what's going on anyway?

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
This is a religion podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
It's all about secrets. They based this whole thing on,
like secrets, hidden treasure, hidden money, making sure that they
could always kind of get this the Christianity where they
needed it to go, okay, and have missionaries protected.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Okay, so secret societies are like got to keep it,
keep up with the Christians. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
But then, as we know, when things are secret, then
little power structures come up. And then suddenly you've got
two people that are like, well, I'm in charge of
this secret sect, and now I've decided we're going to
do a little something extra. We're going to wash everybody's
feet in a bucket, right, we're gonna do They start
adding their own gravy, and it's like, no longer are
you a knight's templar.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
Now you're a foot washer.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
Now you're some kind of like I feel like everyone,
every woman needs to honk me before we start this ceremony.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
How many times have I said this French the government,
and I'll say it again. This is not my friendly phrase.
That's right. Ellis knows, he's like, I'm sick of you saying.
He knows, he's so sick of it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
Okay, So anyhow I lost my place entirely.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
Okay, that's what this podcast is called. Where am I?
Where He?

Speaker 2 (01:09:30):
In nineteen seventy three, Joseph de Moombro moves to the
Swiss border. He starts a group called the Center for
the Preparation of the New Age. Okay, so you know,
hot stuff is happening in this group. Let's get together,
let's weave some looms, let's head to make pottery, let's
talk about the Knights Templars seventy three Okay. And he
begins to tell his followers or the people in the

(01:09:52):
group that he is the reincarnation of the god o
Cyrus and of Moses. And then he starts telling them,
you're reincarnation of Napoleon, and you're the reincarnation of Cleopatra,
and everybody's the reincarnation of some famous political leader or
royalty of some kind. Doubt it, and then he starts

(01:10:14):
telling them he's the one that's going to decide who's
having a relationship with who, because he's the only one
who knows who they were originally were, and now we
have this chance to breed a master race of children,
so let's make sure that like Cleopatra has sex with
Napoleon or whatever he's making up. All the sugar people
are like, yes, sounds good.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
Everyone's like, yeah, we want to bone, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
We want to bone, and we want to be dead
famous people. Right, So he basically is like, I'm in
charge of who gets married. I'm in charge of who
gets to have children. So it becomes he goes from
like we're a group that gets together to talk about
how grab the knights templar are, and now it's like
I control every aspect of your life, which is how
it always goes. Even though that's how intense and bizarre

(01:10:57):
it was. All these respected citizens and dreamly wealthy people
join this thing because it's all about the He sells
this idea that you if you give enough money, you
can like absorb the spirituality and power of the Knights Templar.
It's this honorable society and you join it and you're

(01:11:17):
forwarding the Christian movement or what, I don't know whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
So because rich people get bored is really what that means.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
They get bored and we all want guarantees, right, So
it's like, I'm going to give this guy who claims
to be what he also claimed to be the reincarnation
of a fourteenth century night Night templar whatever. And then
the other guy, Luke Jera, he claimed to be the
third incarnation of Jesus Christ. He went straight to the top.

(01:11:46):
Oh man, Yeah, So basically people are getting into it.
And at that time he changed the name Joseph Demmbro.
In nineteen seventy eight changes the name to the Foundation
of the Golden Way. He takes a core group of
the followers and I was like, we're super into this.
Let's go start the Foundation of the Golden Way. And
in that group, that's when Luxurie shows up. He is

(01:12:08):
Lukexuray was born in the Belgian Congo. He studied to
be an actual doctor. Then he decides he's not into
like traditional medicines and he wants to be an alternative healer.
So then he starts getting really into holistic medicine and
really into New Age Chipotle, and he starts he becomes
like a.

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
Star on the New Age circuit.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
He's the one that, like in the mid late seventies,
is out there telling everybody, here's how you tap into
your inner the godd O Cyrus or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
The truck it is. You stop wearing about gas. You
don't have to worry about gas prices and having a
job and money, right because you're wealthy.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
Yeah, don't worry about any of the things that everybody
else in Jimmy Carter's America are freaking out about.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
Don't worry about it, yeah, because you have enough money.
So come to join a cult. Come secret sect with us. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
So when they meet Joe Dimambro knows that this guy,
he's like the face man, He's going to be the
perfect pitch man for their new cult, which they in
nineteen eighty four basically reconfigure. Yeah, it's going on for
so long. They reconfigure and call themselves the Order of
the Solar Temple. So that's when Luke Jerai comes into
Joe Demombo's life.

Speaker 1 (01:13:16):
That's when it all clicks.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
So in this group. They have these rituals that are
based on ancient Christian and Masonic rites. It's all secret,
so all the members are secret all that you know,
nobody tells anybody else that they're in this group. And
at its height, they had lodges in Canada, Australia, Switzerland
and Martinique.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
I mean, I'll join just to clunking go on, Baker.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
I mean, right, you know, to just go to an
island and then pretend you're Cleopatra skiing, Switzerland skiing, and Martinique.
So that was a joke everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
I know.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
Martinique is a beautiful island. So soon the topic changes.
And when I say soon, I mean after seven years
or of the brunch sound these people stay in this
weird cult. They start sending this message that an apocalypse
is coming. It's an environmental apocalypse. Man has caused it.
It's man's fault that it's going to happen, and only

(01:14:13):
the elite are going to survive it. Great, So if
you want to be in that group, why don't you
kick down all of the money that you have. No, Yeah,
they make everybody give them all of their money. Cannot Yeah,
And it's this insurance. So eventually that message becomes the
reason that you should trust us is that Joe's daughter,

(01:14:34):
whose name was Emmanuel, she was one of nine existing
cosmic children who would lead them all to a planet
that was next to the star Serius and his son
also Eli. I believe his name was his destiny. Eli's
destiny was to usher in the New Age. So luckily
the leader of this cult two children were the key

(01:14:56):
pieces to get them to So basically, the Earth Earth
was going to end for environmental reasons, and then they
were going to travel via a path of fire to
a planet that's next to the star. Series Everyone's like.

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
It's crazy, It's crazy, and I want to be like
hell the wack. Like there's there's the podcast Heaven's Gate
that's like super good. That like my sad retelling of
the Heaven's Gate story last week before the podcast came out,
By the way, I just I didn't know about it yet.
It was good. They like focus on a couple actual
cult members and explain how it happened, and you kind

(01:15:32):
of get it a little more, but it's just so
bananas and bonkers.

Speaker 2 (01:15:37):
I think it comes down to that feeling of like
when life is feels really plain all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:15:42):
Yeah, and then you get introduced to an idea of
your special and there's more than there's more than this,
and you're correct. Everyone else is going along with their
everyday life and.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
They're all lemmings your special. I see how special you are.

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
Come in do my ritual. Yeah, let me shind I
have I have knowledged? Yeah, I and that I will
impart onto you. Yes, listen, I'm starting a cult right now.

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
Yeah, I mean I'm believing that in here are you
the gott Osiris.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
I have Elvis sitting on my lap staring at me.

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
She is petting a cat in a kind of evil
cult like way.

Speaker 1 (01:16:14):
Yep, okay, I just uncrossed his eyes. It's a miracle,
she's real. Yeah. Since recording this episode in twenty eighteen,
our Colt has grand into a worldwide organization. If you're
interested in learning more about our cult, good to my
favorite murder dot com promo code Murder.

Speaker 2 (01:16:32):
So okay, So basically, that talk goes on so long
that of course nothing ends up happening, and the members
are like, yeah, okay, you've been talking about this apocalypse
for a while. Nothing's going on, and I've given you
like millions.

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
Of days the apocalypse happened.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
Yeah, I want I want everyone else to die. I
want to see what you're talking about. I want these
things to happen. Well, also, meanwhile, they started getting, of course,
super crazy with their power. They were buying houses everywhere.
They had everybody's money. So they're out like, they've got
houses here, and you know, as you saw chalets and
condos in every city.

Speaker 1 (01:17:07):
They're hiding up rooms they've.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
Got they can build things that look like small rooms
but that are actually big rooms. It's crazy, and so
the members are like, yeah, you seem to be getting
a lot of stuff, but like all of our you know,
it's on our dime.

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:25):
So then Luke Gera is voted out as grand Master
of the Canadian branch of the Tumbles.

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
How mad is he because.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
He starts to demand that that one woman has sex
with him before every ritual for his to build strength,
and everyone's like okay. All the members are like, you're
losing your campoo and it's obvious and it's creepy. So
then he gets voted out. Well then Joe Demombro is
just like, wait, no, it's our colt, like you can't

(01:17:57):
get voted out. What are you doing?

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
Yeah, this isn't okay, fantasy Island or whatever?

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
Yeah you mean survivor, Yes, yes you knew, just as
a bit of information, Luke JERII. It shouldn't be a
surprise that he lost his shampoo because before joining the
Order of the Solar Temple, he belonged to a racist,
neo Nazi magical organization co founded by a former Gestapo
officer named Julian Origis. And he was also an illegal

(01:18:25):
arms dealer, so he wasn't a great like, he wasn't
a nice A.

Speaker 1 (01:18:30):
Little background check, rich people, Yeah, are.

Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
You a good guy?

Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
Can you write a horse?

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
Are you an arms dealer? These things should disqualify you.
So then this is all building, right, So they're like.

Speaker 1 (01:18:42):
Slightly losing control.

Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
It's like, oh no, no, focus on my cosmic daughter
or whatever. Then in February of nineteen ninety three, it's
the fifty four day Siege of Waco. Oh shoot, right,
So on all of our TVs we all saw the branch,
davidians and and David Koresh and everything. We saw that
whole thing go up in flames.

Speaker 1 (01:19:04):
Is that gonna be a podcast soon or a TV show.
I think it's a TV show, a documentary.

Speaker 2 (01:19:08):
I think it's one of those American crimes or something.

Speaker 1 (01:19:13):
Right, an experience. I want to see a good doctor, just.

Speaker 2 (01:19:22):
The longest American dad of all time. He works with
the CIA. So okay. So after that happens, and everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:19:31):
Watched it on TV and everyone's like, oh, no more
cults for me, exactly, I think I've had enough.

Speaker 2 (01:19:36):
Is the funniest thing in the world to me. Where
they're like, oh, this is where we're headed. We're not
actually headed to a planet next to the Star series.
We're just going to burn government style, right, friendship government.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
Listen, it's the government, okay, so please please don't hurt me. Government.

Speaker 2 (01:19:54):
That won't work, so feel it. This is my favorite part.
So as all of this is right, it's crumbling. It's
crumbling our millions. You know, people are walking away our secret.
And they really did have They had millionaires, they had scientists,
they had famous architects. There was people in this cult,
very high level people, a very famous Swiss composer.

Speaker 1 (01:20:14):
So it was like a bunch of smarty pants.

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):
Smarty pants and richies, pay smart and warty. I mean,
the whole place smelled like Paul onions after shade. So
what am me saying? So? Okay, then they discover so
our friend Tony Dutoi, d'utois, I don't remember how I
pronounced it, the man who has found stab fifty.

Speaker 1 (01:20:36):
Times in the apartment in Canada.

Speaker 2 (01:20:39):
And baby and his wife and baby. Okay, So it
turns out he was a longtime member of the Order
of the Solar Temple and he discovered so they would
have these rights and rituals, and when Joe Dimambro did them,
he could make things fly, he could make things like
appear out of nowhere. There's all these weird things he

(01:21:00):
did that made people believe that he was special and
had special powers. Well, it turns out Tony Dutois discovers
that he was using lasers and holograms.

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
No, and he was back in ninety I'm impressed by that.
In ninety four, yeah, even earlier.

Speaker 2 (01:21:16):
Yeah, he basically set it up so the whole thing
was like special effects and fog and light show or whatever,
and made people believe it was his power and he
was spending he was spending their money, a ton of money,
because you know, a hologram back then was very expensive.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
It's basically like coach a coach Ella Tuba.

Speaker 2 (01:21:33):
BJ said, yeah, but just him and twelve people in robes.
So Tony finds out about this and starts going, you guys,
this is super fake. This is the whole thing is
a fraud, to the point where and so much like
distrust and disillusion was going through the whole cult, down
to Joe Demambro's own children, who were like, my dad's

(01:21:56):
a fraud.

Speaker 1 (01:21:57):
Like everybody was starting in bad not a space could
my dad is lying.

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
I can't lead you to that planet. No, but that's
my favorite that it was like the the straw that
broke the camel's back was that his holograms and lasers
were discovered. So then everyone's just bailing like crazy, Okay,
So then he so basically Tony tells everybody and then
like gets out of town. So Joe Demambro announced to

(01:22:23):
the remaining members that the dutois three month old son
was the Antichrist and needed to be assassinated. Yes, that's so.
The two bodies that were in that condo from the
beginning of the story turned out to be thirty five
year old Jerry Janeau and sixty sixty year old Collette Janet.
They murdered the Dutoise, murdered that baby, and then committed

(01:22:47):
suicide and lit that apartment on fire with thecendiary device.

Speaker 1 (01:22:51):
That was like all the incendiary devices slip in shirt.

Speaker 2 (01:22:54):
Yes, so what awful? Awful people so crazy And then
like once they knew that was happening, they know it's over.
So they announced to the rest of the membership that
the apocalypse has arrived and it's time for all of
them to travel to the planet next to the star Serius.

Speaker 1 (01:23:13):
Let's go.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
So it's mass suicide time. And because they were saying
the transformation takes place in fire, that's why all those
in scendiary device, that's where all the buildings were burning.

Speaker 1 (01:23:24):
So what were the incendiary devices made of? Do you know?

Speaker 2 (01:23:27):
I don't like in my mind, it looks like a
light switch with the plate.

Speaker 1 (01:23:31):
Off the front. Yeah, and like there's a little thing
tied to this thing and a little and.

Speaker 2 (01:23:37):
Then a mouse choose the road, yes, right, and then boom.

Speaker 1 (01:23:40):
Yeah, but the mouse survives, that's right. Mass is fine.

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
The mouse is innocent. And then a cat swoops down
and eats the mouse.

Speaker 3 (01:23:49):
Yay.

Speaker 1 (01:23:50):
So it was at that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:51):
Farmhouse from the beginning in Sirie where Joe Demombro and
Luke Jerra met there and along with twenty one other
member so they were okay, they were in SyRI then okay.
So the reason that it's so amazing to me is
because I remember very distinctly when I saw it on
the news. They were so vague and it's still you
can barely get any good information I ever heard of

(01:24:13):
this what was really happening. But I remember seeing it
on the news and being like, I want to know more,
and all you ever heard was so. Then again, in
nineteen ninety five in Grenoble, they find sixteen bodies out
in the forest what uh huh? They in an area
they called Hell's Hell's Entrance or Hell's whole or something,

(01:24:36):
which is super creepy. And the creep that you can
see a picture online. It's a forest, there's police tape,
it looks like it's from like a helicopter. There's police tape,
and then there it just looks like there's a weird
orange light. It's super creepy.

Speaker 1 (01:24:49):
I I flapping google weird murders, weird deaths, weird you
know all the time, and I've never heard of this.

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
Fold some nights templar in there fold in cult okay
Bolden Well, so in that forest there were sixteen bodies
and this is a year later. Then two years after that.
In Quebec in March of ninety seven, five people are
found dead and at the last minute three children who
were supposed to also die convince their parents who ended

(01:25:19):
up dead, convinced their parents that they wanted to live,
and their parents let them go. So three kids escaped.

Speaker 1 (01:25:26):
I want to interview them, right, they're still killing themselves
even though it's over.

Speaker 2 (01:25:33):
Yes, two years later by who like why so crazy?
Or three years later? So the total number deaths in
the order of the Solar Temple is seventy four. Jesus
and their members included scientists, architects, policemen and children, and
the group had between four and six hundred members. It's

(01:25:55):
estimated to have made in its prime ninety three million dollars.
And in the Grenoble scene where in nineteen ninety five
where they found sixteen bodies, the wife of famous champion
skier Jean Varnay, who was the inventor of the awesome
eighties sunglasses, his wife Edith, and their youngest son, Patrick

(01:26:18):
were among the sixteen victims, so they couldn't have been richer.
Those people they had Varnay in the eighties, was like,
you couldn't be richer.

Speaker 1 (01:26:26):
Are they the ones with the swoopy thing here? It's
a weird thing here.

Speaker 2 (01:26:29):
No, Varnays were like the kind of the original ski sunglasses,
so they were mirrored and they were like kind of plastic.

Speaker 1 (01:26:35):
Yeah, every cartoon skier, Yeah, instructor has this. Rich guys.

Speaker 2 (01:26:41):
We went skiing the first time we went to Tahoe
when I was eight. They made us take ski lessons
and my sister had a pair of Varnais on, and I,
instead of listening to the ski instructor, just kept staring
at myself in the mirrored reflection of my sister's sunglasses.

Speaker 1 (01:26:55):
So I didn't listen to how to stop or what
to do.

Speaker 2 (01:26:58):
And so basically we went on one run and I
was like, I need to take these off.

Speaker 1 (01:27:02):
I'm leaving.

Speaker 2 (01:27:03):
Yeah, I'm not doing this. I don't know what's now,
and then we just played in the snow all day exactly.
Here's the more interesting one. Channel four, the British TV station,
they made a documentary alleging that Grace Kelly, the Princess
of Monica, was also initiated into the Order of the
Solar Temple just months before her car.

Speaker 1 (01:27:24):
Accident that took her life.

Speaker 2 (01:27:25):
Yeah, she was in a car accident. Some say she
was not in that car. Some say the body was
never found, but her estate denies any association with the
Order of the Solar Temple. But the filmmakers who made
this documentary for Channel four talked to the acupuncturists who
worked on Princess Grace before her orientation or not orientation

(01:27:47):
initiation ceremony, and because apparently they did acupuncture to relax
people so that they weren't like freaked out, I guess,
and that woman attested to the fact that it was
Princess Grace, but didn't want to give her name or
information because she's scared, because she says that the Order
of the Solar Temple is still in effect today, still

(01:28:07):
has members, and she's scared of those members coming to retaliate.

Speaker 1 (01:28:12):
Against tiding out in plain sights.

Speaker 2 (01:28:15):
And so the very last thing is when Princess Grace's
car crashed in Monaco, her car landed in the yard
of a member of the Order of the Solar temple.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
Yeah, that was good.

Speaker 2 (01:28:31):
That was a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:28:32):
That was a really good one. It goes all the
way to the top. Dude, I know, I want to
know everything.

Speaker 2 (01:28:38):
I want to know what these people talked about. There's photos,
are there pictures? Yes, there's pictures of uh and it's
all the faces are blacked out. There's black bars across
the eyes of like an actual ritual. But then there's
the empty room where they found the bodies they I know,
the ones I saw. It was just the room without
the bodies lying in it. But then you can also

(01:28:58):
see there's like graphs of how they laid out of
the bodies in star formation.

Speaker 1 (01:29:03):
I want that. I want that.

Speaker 2 (01:29:03):
I want that, Yes, And I think the one the
people that killed themselves last in nineteen ninety seven in
Canada were laid out in a crucifix for me.

Speaker 1 (01:29:12):
So the people who who unintentional suicide most people did
they did they ever figure out if they like were
just like kill me or they were like held hostage
or because like I could see people like I don't
want to kill myself, but just shoot me in the
back of the head. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:28):
I think what they were saying is that theory is
that it wasn't. They were like, I don't want to
do this. It like they went there for other reasons.
Some of them think they were drugged or poisoned. But
then it was then they fought them because there was
so much blood that it wasn't just like putting people
down in an orderly fashion. There was like it was
a real bloody crime scene. So they think it was.

(01:29:50):
That's what led them to believe it was the against
against your will suicide.

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
That's crazy, flipping nuts man, live.

Speaker 2 (01:29:58):
M secret eilts. Where is the treasure? There's treasure, treasure.
Oh yeah, the Knights templar they put supposedly that's like
nick cage style they supposedly.

Speaker 1 (01:30:13):
How is that what that is?

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
Yeah, because they went and pillaged everything down in like
the Holy Land.

Speaker 1 (01:30:18):
They tole all the sugar from the friendly Jewish people's
that's right, that's right, chosen ones.

Speaker 2 (01:30:23):
So it's your it's your birthright mm hmm to go
and find that those gold the balloons and take them back.

Speaker 1 (01:30:31):
Let's do it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:32):
I would love to.

Speaker 1 (01:30:33):
Let's go on an adventure. Okay, okay, goodbye bye. That
was amazing, Thank you, thank you for that.

Speaker 2 (01:30:41):
Absolutely love a cult.

Speaker 1 (01:30:44):
What did we Well, we've come to the end, my friends.

Speaker 2 (01:30:47):
Oh yeah, what's a do you have a fun thing
for this week?

Speaker 1 (01:30:49):
A thing that made me happy? Yeah? Now do you well?
I do? Actually? Okay, great, maybe it'll inspire me. Okay, good.

Speaker 2 (01:30:57):
But this is a it's a repeat of what I've
done before, but it's a kind of an update. And
it's very exciting because my favorite band, and now many
other people's favorite band, Sure Shore, finally came out with
an album. It's self titled it says sure Shore. You
can get it on Spotify, you can get it on iTunes,
and it is so godding dan good. It's all the
like single releases that they had before, and then a

(01:31:20):
bunch of new songs I've never heard before that are
so beautiful and it's just great. I just got it
and I love it so well.

Speaker 1 (01:31:28):
If we're gonna do this will be the music perfect thing.
Vince got us ticket. So Vince surprised me with tickets
to go see the band Jawbreaker Night, which I'm like
super excited to go see them. I've I've never seen
them play. I've been in love with them forever. Great
old band. Everyone go listen but it's also I love

(01:31:50):
that Vince dash rub like that and it's really sweet
and like I would never go see music or anything live,
but Vince is like into that shirt. Yeah. So like
he does it and then I'm like, what did I
do this?

Speaker 5 (01:32:01):
More?

Speaker 1 (01:32:02):
And I know, you know, so it's nice to tell.

Speaker 2 (01:32:05):
You have friends like me that are like I'm telling, well,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:32:08):
I'm not gonna go that night like that night, I'm
going to be sick like I am every night. But
it's sweet that he did it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:14):
It's so good. Oh wait, so it's future.

Speaker 1 (01:32:16):
You haven't done it yet. Yeah, I'm done yet. He
just bought tickets to guys see job Baker. That's awesome.
I'm you know, twenty something year all. Georgia's like, you
put it on on the radio today and I get
really excited.

Speaker 2 (01:32:27):
Yes, that's exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:32:28):
Yeah all right, thanks for listening to you guy.

Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
Guys, thanks for once again going through that with us.

Speaker 1 (01:32:36):
We have had it up to here with not going
through this with you because we love it so much.

Speaker 2 (01:32:43):
It's very fun. It's a very fun job. And on
our on our two year anniversary, thank you Honny so much,
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:32:52):
Lucky this is the best ever.

Speaker 2 (01:32:54):
It's crazy, lucky, wonderful. Yeah, thanks everybody, Thanks Steven, Thanks Steven, well,
thank you more in six months.

Speaker 1 (01:33:01):
Yeah, when you've earned it, when you've earned it, when
you've flopping, been through the shark week like we have,
when you finally French the government the way we need
you to. Elvis knows he's been here from the pappy
he was. He was here before us. Yeah, he'll be
here after us.

Speaker 2 (01:33:17):
He will remain after we have gone.

Speaker 1 (01:33:19):
Yep, is that it? That's it? All right?

Speaker 2 (01:33:21):
Well, then stay saved.

Speaker 1 (01:33:22):
And do God's mission.

Speaker 3 (01:33:24):
Bye, Elvis Cokie.

Speaker 2 (01:33:28):
Yeah, yeah, this has been an exactly right production.

Speaker 1 (01:33:38):
Our producer is Alejandra Keck. Our senior producer is Hannah
Kyle Crichton. This episode was edited by Leona Squillacci.

Speaker 2 (01:33:45):
Followed the show on Instagram and Facebook at my Favorite
Murder and Twitter at my Favor Murder.

Speaker 1 (01:33:50):
Goodbye has birth Day.

Speaker 2 (01:34:04):
This horror that sounds like a horror movie.