May 10, 2022 • 28 mins
Everyone deals with self-doubt differently. Gam sits down with psychologist Dr. Alfiee Breland-Noble to discuss why we experience it, what triggers it, and how to combat it.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
What's up, everybody. I'm Gammy and this is Positively gam.
Something that's been on my mind lately. Is always on
my mind, self doubt. I go through it a lot
and have spoken about it some of my insecurities on
this podcast and on Red Table Talk. I know we
all go through self doubt regarding different things, and so
I wanted to talk to someone who can shed some
(00:30):
light on why we go through this self doubt and
ways we can become more confident in ourselves. So let's
get into the episode. Dr Alfie am Brilian Noble, known
professionally as Dr Alfie, is a pioneering psychologist, scientists, author,
and mental health correspondent. As an in demand expert in
(00:52):
BIPOC mental health, she hosts a video podcast, Couch and
Color with Dr Alfie, and it's a regular broadcast, digital
and print media contributor for various outlets including NBC, CNN, PBS,
and The New York Times, and she's been a guest
on our own Red Table Talk. So welcome Dr Alfie
(01:14):
to Positively Gam. Thank you, Gamy. Yeah, I'm so glad
to see you again. It was such a joy to
have you on Red Table Talk. And you know, I
just enjoyed our conversation so much. It just felt a
need to talk a little bit more about some things
that I feel a lot of people go through and
definitely me personally so. And it's so interesting because I
(01:39):
looked at my daily home the other day I give
the email and it was recognizing your value and I
was like, how approse, Like this is karma or something,
because that's what came up, and it's changed You're thinking
to knowing that your life matters and that you are
(01:59):
import too, and you know it can be it says
it can be easy sometimes to buy into the illusion
of our own insignificance a couple of things. So just
thinking about coming into this space and having this conversation
with you, it made me think of both of us
as black women. Let's start there, right, and then I
think start extrapolating out to all people who have these
(02:23):
marginalized identities. So I just I want to start there right.
So when you have an identity where you're not always
in spaces where people look like you or think like you,
or talk like you or share your experiences, I think
for many of us, particularly, I think about the world
that you live in and how we we all see
you publicly. I would imagine that there are oftentimes when
(02:43):
you're in space, you might be the only person of
color in the room. There are times maybe when you're
in spaces where you're the only woman in the room.
There are times when you're the only representative of your generation.
Not always, but sometimes so. I think a lot of
us go through that and have those experiences. And when
we're looking to around and we don't see people who
mirror us, right, one thing I feel is really important
(03:05):
is you need your mirrors. That's why parents are so
important and caregivers, because that's somebody who you can look
at them and say, Okay, so they've had X, y
Z experience and they made it through. Maybe I can.
But when we don't have that, I think we tend
to internalize and think there's something wrong with us. That's
always the immediate thought, there's something wrong with us. And
then the final thing I'll add is that gets reinforced
(03:27):
when you watch things in all types of media, whatever
kind of media it is. Let's not just pick on
social media, and everything you see does not reinforce you positively.
So the whole name of the show positively gam right,
that's a positive reflection of who you are and what
you represent in the world. But we don't all always
get that, and you don't always get it either, neither
do I. So that's what contributes to ourselves doubt, right,
(03:50):
and we don't always feel that. And I have to
say that even being on Red Table, I mean there's
sometimes when first of all, me being at the table
with Jada and Willow, Willow who is so prolific and
so far above her years in her thinking and the
(04:13):
way she expresses herself, and just their experience and their
comfort level in front of the camera. Sometimes I'm sitting
at the table and I actually shrink right, and I
just I can't find my voice. I can't find my
words to fit into the conversation. So there have been
several episodes that I've watched and I'm like, Wow, I'm
(04:33):
actually not saying anything, and it's just my own self
doubt that I don't feel like that I have anything
to contribute to the conversation, and sometimes I actually don't.
And so I know when to be quiet. Yeah, I
don't need to talk if I ain't got nothing to say,
you know, But there are sometimes when I feel like
I have that I want to say things, but I
(04:55):
don't know if it's the right thing to say, you know,
And it's once again that self doubt. I don't feel
like what I'm thinking is important enough to even share.
And so that's been challenging for me, even in that setting.
And people assume that, you know, I'm very comfortable, and
I am not. But I also feel like this is
(05:16):
something This is not new for me. This is something
I swear to you. I've always felt this way, even
as a child. I just have always been uncomfortable in
my own skin, and I don't know how to combat
and I've been in therapy, and therapists have tried to
(05:39):
delve into my childhood. Was there something in how my
mother and father raised me, how I was treated. It's like,
I mean, I was the youngest of four. That's the
only thing that that I can think of. I don't
feel like I was neglected. I was the youngest. I
have a sister who was two years ahead of me.
We were very close and typically I would not do
(06:03):
things without her, right So, I mean I would go
to school, of course, and be in in class, but
when it came to our outside activities, I you know,
I wanted to be wherever she was, so we went
to the y. I wanted to be in the same
classes that she was in, and it didn't always happen.
(06:25):
There were classes that we took separately, but it was
always that comfort to me that when we were switching,
like if she was taking Spanish dance, I might be
in uh ballet. But I knew, like when it was
time for us to switch and go to another class,
either I was gonna pass her in the hallway, or
I was gonna see her or meet up, or we're
(06:48):
not taking this class together, but then the next class
will be in the same you know what I mean.
It was just like and I mean that has gone
on for you into my adulthood. It was just always
this don't want to do anything by myself. Mhmm hmmm.
I think damn some of that. Think about it, like
(07:09):
this one thing I will I hope that you will
carry with you the first thing I thought of. And
I'll come back to this because I gotta say both
of these things is your feelings are always valid, but
they're not always accurate. Think about that, right, and so
you have these feelings. Sometimes feelings come up my Mom's
used to see but she used to say, and my grandma,
(07:30):
the devil, you know, is better than the devil you
don't know. You know that Black folks say that, and
so that idea that it's still a devil, but you
know it. So it's comfortable about that. So that feeling.
Sometimes you're used to having that feeling, so when it
comes up, we just accept it. This is accurate because
I always feel like, how often do we say that's
just how I am. Yeah, I'm just like that, right,
(07:52):
And so I think part of it is. So that's
a piece of it. I want to come back to that.
Before that, I want to say this, I wonder if
you and your listeners and your viewers can think about
reframing it so that you focus on those aspects that
I'm just listening to you talk that you shared, where
you talked about what you do know. Sometimes I'm gonna
(08:13):
reflect it back to you. Sometimes I sit at the
red table and I have nothing to say because there's
nothing for me to contribute. Damn, how many people can
say that. How many people literally just talk and talk
because they're just trying to fill up the space. Whereas
what you shared is I know that there are times
when there's nothing for me to contribute, and so I
don't contribute anything, right, So sometimes all you need to
(08:36):
do is just acknowledge those aspects of who you are
and what you bring to this world that are positive
and that are enough. Right. So those are two pieces
I want to share, and then I gotta throw one
thing in there because it just made me think of it.
I really believe this idea that we're valuable, and I
think we talked about this at the Red Table. Just
because we exist, you don't have to do, have be
(08:59):
say anything. You're valuable. I remember this vividly because you
made it here to be on this planet, and there's
so many people who did not. Yeah. I think it
says that in the daily home too. Yes, yeah, so
I wouldn't you know. I didn't make that up, but
I remember when it was shared with me. It just
(09:19):
it was life changing for me. So I think this
idea that you can acknowledge what your strengths are. Sometimes
it's enough to just acknowledge that strength and just sit
with that, and then to remember your feelings are always
valid in the moment you feel them, and they're real,
but they are not sure feel accurate. They do feel accurate,
(09:40):
And I think part of it is practicing. How do
we practice being in the space where I acknowledge this
is what I'm feeling and not but and I find
ways to bring myself to a more positive plane when
I'm feeling those things. So think about yourself sitting at
the table and you're thinking to yourself, I don't have
anything contribute to this conversation. Maybe remembering me or somebody,
(10:01):
or remembering yourself saying that's okay because there's nothing for
me to contribute right now, and when the time comes
to me to contribute, I'll be ready. What if you
could remind yourself of that in those moments, then there's
less pressure to feel like I should be saying something,
I should be doing something, you know what I mean.
So just reframing it in the moment sometimes it's what
you need until that practice becomes automatic. Because at this point,
(10:26):
your automatic thought is right, and I'm sure you probably
talked about this in therapy. You're automatic thought is I'm
not saying anything, and then it devolves into I'm not
worthy should I really hear? Why anything to say? Right?
That's automatic? So what if the automatic starts to become.
I had this conversation with somebody and they said to me,
maybe it's okay that I don't have anything to say,
(10:47):
because that means I know myself well enough to know
when do I contribute and when do I hang back?
M Yeah, that's that definitely would have to be reframing
from me because I always go to you don't even
need to be sitting here because you ain't even saying
nothing right and thin. But think about this, gam Think
about what you represent just by being at the table.
(11:10):
Think about a generation of women right who, like like
I said, Jade and are gen X. When Jada is
at the table, I know she's only speaking for Jada,
but there's so many gen X, Black women and women
of color and women in general who look at her
and they're like, yeah, she's seeing stuff that resonates with me,
saying with Willow right as a gen Zer, it's the
(11:30):
same for you. For your generation. You just your presence
and as gorgeous and as radiant as you are, and
how you just show up. You are giving voice and
visibility to so many women who are in your generation
who might have felt they didn't have a voice and
nobody was reflecting their experiences and you do that just
(11:51):
by showing up. Speaking of generations, do you think that
self doubt and these um insecurities are feelings that are
passed down through generations? Because I feel like I was
born that way, my mother was, it was not this way,
my father was not. I just don't know where it
(12:12):
came from. But do you feel like those kinds of
issues and fears are passed down through generations? I mean
not only are they passed down internally through generations. So
you think about intergenerational trauma, but you also think about societally.
What kind of messages do we get from society? So
(12:32):
even if it wasn't happening in your house that you
were aware of, think about this. We don't know what
was happening internally with our love that we don't know.
All we know is what they tell us. So I
guarantee you there's somebody in the family somewhere, probably close
first egree relative, who's struggling with the same stuff, but
just never verbalize those things. So I think there's this
(12:54):
internal part where we pass it generationally. I also think
society gives us these messages. Think about where end up
your generation and what women were told they could and
could not do. Think about that, right, I think about
women of my generation, we could do a little bit
more because of the sacrifices that you all mad. And
then I think about Willows and my daughter's generation, right,
they do even more. So I think it's a little
(13:15):
bit of both internal passing down but also external messaging
as well. Now, we also did a show on anxiety,
and I never thought of myself as being somebody who
is anxious. Is anxiety and self doubt connected? But they're
(13:39):
not the same, right, They're not the same. They're not
the same. But anxiety and self doubt can absolutely be connected.
So when you think about anxiety, I tend to think
about anxiety as worried, right, just making in plain English, worried.
That's out of proportion to whatever the stimulus is that's
presented to you. Right, So if something happens, whatever it is, like,
(14:00):
nobody cut you off in traffic. Many people who don't
have anxiety, Oh, they just cut me off in traffic.
Maybe they get annoyed. An anxious person starts thinking stuff,
what was I in the wrong lane? What did I
do wrong? Why did they cut me off? This is
just the worst day ever, right, and it just starts spivuling.
And so I think it's this idea of think about
fight or flight. We all have fight or flight, right,
(14:20):
It's just it's is born into us anxious people. Their
fight or flight isn't overdrive, right, and it's varying degrees
or overdrive. So it's not like everybody's that attend in
flight all the time. But I think when you're anxious,
you're in my because I'm anxious to has a little more,
you're a little more reactive. And so I think absolutely
self doubt contributes to that. They feed each other, right,
(14:42):
So it's not necessarily no which came first, but they
absolutely feed each other. So I'm gonna give you an example.
I had a situation recently where I had an opportunity
to attend an event, right, and they only had one
ticket though, so that man, I was gonna have to
(15:03):
go by myself. And it was an important event, something
that I really would have loved to attend, but I
didn't want to go by myself, and I had all
of these reasons why I couldn't go. I can't go,
I'm gonna be at the table by myself. I won't
know where to sit. I won't there's not gonna be
anybody there. I just I can't do it. And my
(15:24):
husband was like, Adrian, you absolutely are going to know
some people at the event, and what would happen. What
would be the worst thing that would happen if you
go and you're sitting at the table by yourself. You
know how to talk to people, you know how to
(15:46):
have conversation, and guess what, if you don't like it,
you can get up and leave. And he really had
to talk me into it. My you are rap was like,
I will be there. I will be there and I
can greet you and make sure that you get in
(16:07):
your seat and all that, and you know, and then
I was like, Okay, I can do it. I can
do it. And then it turned out I had to
work and I couldn't go anyway. But then I got
all ramped up, and you know, ready I wanted to go.
I was excited about going. It was an event that
I actually really wanted to attend. I was just I
(16:28):
let my fear take over, so I see that anxiety
because my head I went to all of this, just
all these reasons why I absolutely could not do it.
I just I can't do it. I can't do it,
you know. And my husband was I mean, I love
him so much, he just he is a grounding force
in my life. You know. That was I think a
(16:52):
really good example of anxiety and self doubt, like the
two of them like combusting and creating such a you know,
a negative force in my mind. It wasn't real. It's
just you know, I just went left immediately. What about
(17:21):
codependency Does that that trigger yourself out as well? Yeah,
because think about it like this, codependency is you can't
It's an extreme version of I am half a person
and I need another half a person to be whole. Right,
It's not I'm a a whole individual. This other person
as a whole individual, and together we can be a
(17:42):
whole couple or a whole partnership, or you know, whatever
the case may be, whatever your relationship is to that person.
Codependency is really about we have to really sort of
lean on each other so much that neither one of
us can stand on our own. And of course that's
going to feed self out because you think about it,
if they're things that you should normally be able to
(18:02):
do without any difficulty, I think in our minds, the
codependency really sort of feeds this idea. Of course, I
can't do that unless I have this other person to
do whatever that thing is, So we don't give ourselves
an opportunity we are a part of working through self
doubt is giving yourself enough data to see that when
you're faced with a difficult situation, you can get through it.
(18:24):
But if you're codependent and you always need that other
person to help you get through whatever it is, when
do you ever learn the lesson that you alone, like
you said in your daily own, are good enough by
yourself just as you are. You don't give yourself an opportunity.
So to me, of course, that naturally is going to
feed self doubt. And I think that's a natural tendency
for those of us who have anxiety, especially if it's
(18:46):
really high level anxiety where it's with us all the
time and it's activated all the time. That's a natural
tendency to go there because we're not trusting ourselves that
we can do things on our own, and of course
we can't. We just need practice. Yeah, So how do
(19:07):
you think the pandemic has affected or triggered people when
it comes to self doubt, just that being forced to
be alone all the time. It is, Yeah, you're forced
to be alone with your thoughts, and you think about it,
you're you also don't have opportunities to practice. Again, My
thing is always about you gotta practice behaviors to learn
them and integrate them into your life day to day.
(19:30):
When do you get to practice things like, say, for example,
one of your things is you're socially shock, but you're
really trying to work on engaging people. The pandemic forced
you to be in the house more so, when do
you get to practice and what do you do? You
revert back to the stuff that makes you feel comfortable,
and sometimes the stuff that makes you feel comfortable. Remember
what it said, the devil, you know, it's been a
devil you don't know, but it's still a devil. You're
(19:50):
hanging out with that devil of self doubt and it
just you're allowing it to grow. I think there's a
part of it said that. I think there's a part
of it where we think about things like depression and
anxiet iety often go together, right, So you're maybe frustrated
because you're in the house anxious. Your anxiety is growing,
and then you get sad because your anxiety is getting worse,
(20:10):
and then it's just a vicious cycle. So when do
you get the opportunity to help pull yourself out of
that if you're not out of the house doing things
that help you relieve your anxiety. I remember one of
the things you said was you like to be out
in nature, okay and right, and the nature and nature
helps you. I'm the same way. I like to be
outside running the walk, and especially we have like creeks
(20:30):
and streams by where I live. I love being by
the water. What happens if I can't get outside to
be by the water, I'm just sitting with that anxiety.
And one more thing I'll add is people who are
able to do things like let's say you figured out
that exercise really helps you with your anxiety, and you
really like to go to the gym. During the pandemic,
(20:51):
the gym was closed, right, so you couldn't go to
the gym, And now that it's open, maybe you're worried
about people are in there without masks. I don't go
in there getting no germs. I don't want to get
be exposed to COVID. And so you keep yourself in
the house. So I think there are lots of ways
in which, to your point, the pandemic and isolation and
quarantine have really fed people's anxieties, not intentionally, but it's
(21:13):
just a byproduct. So what are the different things Like,
are there exercises or that we can do to just
kind of help us with this, you know, things that
we can do to build up our self confidence. Absolutely,
so I think it's baby steps. So one of the
things we teach people when you're teaching them how to
(21:35):
manage anxiety is something called exposure treatment. I think that
without getting too formal, we can expose ourselves to things
step by step, in little baby steps to help us
get more acclimated to doing those things and develop more
confidence in ourselves that we can accomplish those things. So,
for example, like when you said your husband was talking
(21:57):
to you about going to this event by yourself, I
think an example of that might be can you sit quietly?
This is what I teach my patients when I work
with patients. Can you sit quietly and just visualize what
would it be like to show up at that event.
Let's just start there, work on breathing. What do you
need to do to help yourself be calm in the moment.
(22:18):
Maybe you need to count right, just count to ten.
Maybe you need to take deep breaths. I don't know.
Maybe you need to give yourself some affirmations, but just
pretend like you're in that moment and work yourself down
away from that high level anxiety. That step one, it's
just visualization. Step two might be let's go to an
event together together, and then you leave me by myself
(22:39):
for ten minutes and let me work on what it
feels like to be alone. But I know you're around
here somewhere right until you work your way up to
I actually can make an effort and make an attempt
to go to an event by myself. So it's that
visual visualization and practicing in baby steps. I always also
say prevention is always so much better and intervention. So
(23:01):
if you work on keeping your anxiety at a low
level daily, every day, you're doing something to help you
manage your anxiety. That and to build yourself confidence right,
reflecting on something that's good about you, practicing the affirmations,
setting your intention. For some people, that's prayer. If you
can find something that you can do every day to
(23:22):
reinforce your self confidence, reinforce something that you like about yourself,
for multiple things that you like about yourself, those things
start to become automatic. Remember how we were talking about
the automatic thoughts where our brains go normally. Right, you
gotta build it up the same way you like sort
of build yourself down into that self doubt. So it's
building ourselves back up, and it's practicing it every day,
(23:45):
so that it's prevention instead of waiting until we're in
the throws of oh my god, I hate myself, I
can't do it, and trying to talk ourselves out of it.
It's that's too hard. So prevention first is always the key. Okay,
all right, I have a lot of work to do.
All really too, I have a lot of work to do.
Is there any other advice that you would want to
(24:05):
give people who are dealing with self doubt like myself? Yes,
I would say two things. Come back to remember what
you said from the daily own and what I've learned
a long time ago. You're valuable because you exist. Remember
that daily. That's one thing too. Curate your news and
curate the sources of information that you allowed to come
(24:26):
into your space. Right. So some people love watching like
network news or you know, cable news, or whatever the
case may be, but it triggers anxiety, it makes them worry.
You gotta reduce the amount of news that you consume
because you're really trying to calibrate and make sure that
the stuff that you take in is not stuff that
sending your anxiety spinning. So always be mindful of what
(24:46):
you're consuming in all different kinds of ways. Exercise is important.
And then the final thing I will say, it's just
try to find that one piece of light within yourself.
Think about that one thing that you know you do
better than anybody else, and remind yourself of that constantly.
If you can continue to do that, you're always coming
(25:08):
back every day to something that makes you feel good
about yourself, that makes you positive, that gives you a boost,
And hopefully, if you do that enough, that thing becomes
automatic and you have at least one thing to help
counter any of those aspects of self doubt that you
might be feeling. Thank you so much for joining us,
(25:28):
Dr Alphie. That you know, I started out feeling anxious
about just having the conversation, but I'm so glad that
I did. I'm so glad that you agreed to come on.
So now it's time for this segment. Wouldn't you like
(25:48):
to know? And I want to ask you three rapid
fire questions before you leave. What book are you currently reading? Oh,
that's a good question. I'm always read in The Secret
some version of that always Okay, Yeah, I'm familiar with
that book. What's one thing you want to get off
your chest that I am? I have to remind myself
(26:09):
of this. I am fearless, I am unapologetic about who
I am as a black woman. I love myself and
I demand that people show up and respect me exactly
as I show up in the world. And don't ask
me to change anything. Girl. Yes, okay, and seen and cut.
(26:33):
What's the model you live by? Oh, one of my favorites.
I wish you lots of loving light and I'm always
hoping that your loving light and your mental health are
informed by good, culturally relevant science. I love that. I
love that model. And where can people find you on
social media? Yes? Of course. So my kids and their
(26:56):
friends call me drowthy d R A L F by E.
They always called me dropping, and somebody called me that yesterday,
and I'm picking up food and I put dr alf
They were like draft. I was like okay, so draftee
at all social media Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn whatever. Then I
have a website, dr Alfie dot com and then people
can also follow my nonprofit, thea COMA Project a a
(27:17):
k O M a Coma Project one word on all
social media. Thank you so much for joining us, dr Alfie,
thank you for using your platform for this, and thank
you for having me. I am you know, I'm up forever,
ever and ever fan and not just appreciate you and
your team so much. Thank you so much for joining
us today. My most important takeaways from today's conversation is
(27:40):
number one, your feelings are valid, but they're not always accurate.
And number two, we're valuable because we exist and that's
our show for today. You can follow me online at
gammy Nars. Also help us out by leaving a five
star review on Apple Podcasts and by hitting the follow
(28:00):
button on I Heart Radio, Stay gratefully all Positively. Gam
is produced by Red Table Talk Podcast and I Heart Radio.
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(28:24):
produced by D Beats
What's up, everybody. I'm Gammy and this is Positively gam.
Something that's been on my mind lately. Is always on
my mind, self doubt. I go through it a lot
and have spoken about it some of my insecurities on
this podcast and on Red Table Talk. I know we
all go through self doubt regarding different things, and so
I wanted to talk to someone who can shed some
(00:30):
light on why we go through this self doubt and
ways we can become more confident in ourselves. So let's
get into the episode. Dr Alfie am Brilian Noble, known
professionally as Dr Alfie, is a pioneering psychologist, scientists, author,
and mental health correspondent. As an in demand expert in
(00:52):
BIPOC mental health, she hosts a video podcast, Couch and
Color with Dr Alfie, and it's a regular broadcast, digital
and print media contributor for various outlets including NBC, CNN, PBS,
and The New York Times, and she's been a guest
on our own Red Table Talk. So welcome Dr Alfie
(01:14):
to Positively Gam. Thank you, Gamy. Yeah, I'm so glad
to see you again. It was such a joy to
have you on Red Table Talk. And you know, I
just enjoyed our conversation so much. It just felt a
need to talk a little bit more about some things
that I feel a lot of people go through and
definitely me personally so. And it's so interesting because I
(01:39):
looked at my daily home the other day I give
the email and it was recognizing your value and I
was like, how approse, Like this is karma or something,
because that's what came up, and it's changed You're thinking
to knowing that your life matters and that you are
(01:59):
import too, and you know it can be it says
it can be easy sometimes to buy into the illusion
of our own insignificance a couple of things. So just
thinking about coming into this space and having this conversation
with you, it made me think of both of us
as black women. Let's start there, right, and then I
think start extrapolating out to all people who have these
(02:23):
marginalized identities. So I just I want to start there right.
So when you have an identity where you're not always
in spaces where people look like you or think like you,
or talk like you or share your experiences, I think
for many of us, particularly, I think about the world
that you live in and how we we all see
you publicly. I would imagine that there are oftentimes when
(02:43):
you're in space, you might be the only person of
color in the room. There are times maybe when you're
in spaces where you're the only woman in the room.
There are times when you're the only representative of your generation.
Not always, but sometimes so. I think a lot of
us go through that and have those experiences. And when
we're looking to around and we don't see people who
mirror us, right, one thing I feel is really important
(03:05):
is you need your mirrors. That's why parents are so
important and caregivers, because that's somebody who you can look
at them and say, Okay, so they've had X, y
Z experience and they made it through. Maybe I can.
But when we don't have that, I think we tend
to internalize and think there's something wrong with us. That's
always the immediate thought, there's something wrong with us. And
then the final thing I'll add is that gets reinforced
(03:27):
when you watch things in all types of media, whatever
kind of media it is. Let's not just pick on
social media, and everything you see does not reinforce you positively.
So the whole name of the show positively gam right,
that's a positive reflection of who you are and what
you represent in the world. But we don't all always
get that, and you don't always get it either, neither
do I. So that's what contributes to ourselves doubt, right,
(03:50):
and we don't always feel that. And I have to
say that even being on Red Table, I mean there's
sometimes when first of all, me being at the table
with Jada and Willow, Willow who is so prolific and
so far above her years in her thinking and the
(04:13):
way she expresses herself, and just their experience and their
comfort level in front of the camera. Sometimes I'm sitting
at the table and I actually shrink right, and I
just I can't find my voice. I can't find my
words to fit into the conversation. So there have been
several episodes that I've watched and I'm like, Wow, I'm
(04:33):
actually not saying anything, and it's just my own self
doubt that I don't feel like that I have anything
to contribute to the conversation, and sometimes I actually don't.
And so I know when to be quiet. Yeah, I
don't need to talk if I ain't got nothing to say,
you know, But there are sometimes when I feel like
I have that I want to say things, but I
(04:55):
don't know if it's the right thing to say, you know,
And it's once again that self doubt. I don't feel
like what I'm thinking is important enough to even share.
And so that's been challenging for me, even in that setting.
And people assume that, you know, I'm very comfortable, and
I am not. But I also feel like this is
(05:16):
something This is not new for me. This is something
I swear to you. I've always felt this way, even
as a child. I just have always been uncomfortable in
my own skin, and I don't know how to combat
and I've been in therapy, and therapists have tried to
(05:39):
delve into my childhood. Was there something in how my
mother and father raised me, how I was treated. It's like,
I mean, I was the youngest of four. That's the
only thing that that I can think of. I don't
feel like I was neglected. I was the youngest. I
have a sister who was two years ahead of me.
We were very close and typically I would not do
(06:03):
things without her, right So, I mean I would go
to school, of course, and be in in class, but
when it came to our outside activities, I you know,
I wanted to be wherever she was, so we went
to the y. I wanted to be in the same
classes that she was in, and it didn't always happen.
(06:25):
There were classes that we took separately, but it was
always that comfort to me that when we were switching,
like if she was taking Spanish dance, I might be
in uh ballet. But I knew, like when it was
time for us to switch and go to another class,
either I was gonna pass her in the hallway, or
I was gonna see her or meet up, or we're
(06:48):
not taking this class together, but then the next class
will be in the same you know what I mean.
It was just like and I mean that has gone
on for you into my adulthood. It was just always
this don't want to do anything by myself. Mhmm hmmm.
I think damn some of that. Think about it, like
(07:09):
this one thing I will I hope that you will
carry with you the first thing I thought of. And
I'll come back to this because I gotta say both
of these things is your feelings are always valid, but
they're not always accurate. Think about that, right, and so
you have these feelings. Sometimes feelings come up my Mom's
used to see but she used to say, and my grandma,
(07:30):
the devil, you know, is better than the devil you
don't know. You know that Black folks say that, and
so that idea that it's still a devil, but you
know it. So it's comfortable about that. So that feeling.
Sometimes you're used to having that feeling, so when it
comes up, we just accept it. This is accurate because
I always feel like, how often do we say that's
just how I am. Yeah, I'm just like that, right,
(07:52):
And so I think part of it is. So that's
a piece of it. I want to come back to that.
Before that, I want to say this, I wonder if
you and your listeners and your viewers can think about
reframing it so that you focus on those aspects that
I'm just listening to you talk that you shared, where
you talked about what you do know. Sometimes I'm gonna
(08:13):
reflect it back to you. Sometimes I sit at the
red table and I have nothing to say because there's
nothing for me to contribute. Damn, how many people can
say that. How many people literally just talk and talk
because they're just trying to fill up the space. Whereas
what you shared is I know that there are times
when there's nothing for me to contribute, and so I
don't contribute anything, right, So sometimes all you need to
(08:36):
do is just acknowledge those aspects of who you are
and what you bring to this world that are positive
and that are enough. Right. So those are two pieces
I want to share, and then I gotta throw one
thing in there because it just made me think of it.
I really believe this idea that we're valuable, and I
think we talked about this at the Red Table. Just
because we exist, you don't have to do, have be
(08:59):
say anything. You're valuable. I remember this vividly because you
made it here to be on this planet, and there's
so many people who did not. Yeah. I think it
says that in the daily home too. Yes, yeah, so
I wouldn't you know. I didn't make that up, but
I remember when it was shared with me. It just
(09:19):
it was life changing for me. So I think this
idea that you can acknowledge what your strengths are. Sometimes
it's enough to just acknowledge that strength and just sit
with that, and then to remember your feelings are always
valid in the moment you feel them, and they're real,
but they are not sure feel accurate. They do feel accurate,
(09:40):
And I think part of it is practicing. How do
we practice being in the space where I acknowledge this
is what I'm feeling and not but and I find
ways to bring myself to a more positive plane when
I'm feeling those things. So think about yourself sitting at
the table and you're thinking to yourself, I don't have
anything contribute to this conversation. Maybe remembering me or somebody,
(10:01):
or remembering yourself saying that's okay because there's nothing for
me to contribute right now, and when the time comes
to me to contribute, I'll be ready. What if you
could remind yourself of that in those moments, then there's
less pressure to feel like I should be saying something,
I should be doing something, you know what I mean.
So just reframing it in the moment sometimes it's what
you need until that practice becomes automatic. Because at this point,
(10:26):
your automatic thought is right, and I'm sure you probably
talked about this in therapy. You're automatic thought is I'm
not saying anything, and then it devolves into I'm not
worthy should I really hear? Why anything to say? Right?
That's automatic? So what if the automatic starts to become.
I had this conversation with somebody and they said to me,
maybe it's okay that I don't have anything to say,
(10:47):
because that means I know myself well enough to know
when do I contribute and when do I hang back?
M Yeah, that's that definitely would have to be reframing
from me because I always go to you don't even
need to be sitting here because you ain't even saying
nothing right and thin. But think about this, gam Think
about what you represent just by being at the table.
(11:10):
Think about a generation of women right who, like like
I said, Jade and are gen X. When Jada is
at the table, I know she's only speaking for Jada,
but there's so many gen X, Black women and women
of color and women in general who look at her
and they're like, yeah, she's seeing stuff that resonates with me,
saying with Willow right as a gen Zer, it's the
(11:30):
same for you. For your generation. You just your presence
and as gorgeous and as radiant as you are, and
how you just show up. You are giving voice and
visibility to so many women who are in your generation
who might have felt they didn't have a voice and
nobody was reflecting their experiences and you do that just
(11:51):
by showing up. Speaking of generations, do you think that
self doubt and these um insecurities are feelings that are
passed down through generations? Because I feel like I was
born that way, my mother was, it was not this way,
my father was not. I just don't know where it
(12:12):
came from. But do you feel like those kinds of
issues and fears are passed down through generations? I mean
not only are they passed down internally through generations. So
you think about intergenerational trauma, but you also think about societally.
What kind of messages do we get from society? So
(12:32):
even if it wasn't happening in your house that you
were aware of, think about this. We don't know what
was happening internally with our love that we don't know.
All we know is what they tell us. So I
guarantee you there's somebody in the family somewhere, probably close
first egree relative, who's struggling with the same stuff, but
just never verbalize those things. So I think there's this
(12:54):
internal part where we pass it generationally. I also think
society gives us these messages. Think about where end up
your generation and what women were told they could and
could not do. Think about that, right, I think about
women of my generation, we could do a little bit
more because of the sacrifices that you all mad. And
then I think about Willows and my daughter's generation, right,
they do even more. So I think it's a little
(13:15):
bit of both internal passing down but also external messaging
as well. Now, we also did a show on anxiety,
and I never thought of myself as being somebody who
is anxious. Is anxiety and self doubt connected? But they're
(13:39):
not the same, right, They're not the same. They're not
the same. But anxiety and self doubt can absolutely be connected.
So when you think about anxiety, I tend to think
about anxiety as worried, right, just making in plain English, worried.
That's out of proportion to whatever the stimulus is that's
presented to you. Right, So if something happens, whatever it is, like,
(14:00):
nobody cut you off in traffic. Many people who don't
have anxiety, Oh, they just cut me off in traffic.
Maybe they get annoyed. An anxious person starts thinking stuff,
what was I in the wrong lane? What did I
do wrong? Why did they cut me off? This is
just the worst day ever, right, and it just starts spivuling.
And so I think it's this idea of think about
fight or flight. We all have fight or flight, right,
(14:20):
It's just it's is born into us anxious people. Their
fight or flight isn't overdrive, right, and it's varying degrees
or overdrive. So it's not like everybody's that attend in
flight all the time. But I think when you're anxious,
you're in my because I'm anxious to has a little more,
you're a little more reactive. And so I think absolutely
self doubt contributes to that. They feed each other, right,
(14:42):
So it's not necessarily no which came first, but they
absolutely feed each other. So I'm gonna give you an example.
I had a situation recently where I had an opportunity
to attend an event, right, and they only had one
ticket though, so that man, I was gonna have to
(15:03):
go by myself. And it was an important event, something
that I really would have loved to attend, but I
didn't want to go by myself, and I had all
of these reasons why I couldn't go. I can't go,
I'm gonna be at the table by myself. I won't
know where to sit. I won't there's not gonna be
anybody there. I just I can't do it. And my
(15:24):
husband was like, Adrian, you absolutely are going to know
some people at the event, and what would happen. What
would be the worst thing that would happen if you
go and you're sitting at the table by yourself. You
know how to talk to people, you know how to
(15:46):
have conversation, and guess what, if you don't like it,
you can get up and leave. And he really had
to talk me into it. My you are rap was like,
I will be there. I will be there and I
can greet you and make sure that you get in
(16:07):
your seat and all that, and you know, and then
I was like, Okay, I can do it. I can
do it. And then it turned out I had to
work and I couldn't go anyway. But then I got
all ramped up, and you know, ready I wanted to go.
I was excited about going. It was an event that
I actually really wanted to attend. I was just I
(16:28):
let my fear take over, so I see that anxiety
because my head I went to all of this, just
all these reasons why I absolutely could not do it.
I just I can't do it. I can't do it,
you know. And my husband was I mean, I love
him so much, he just he is a grounding force
in my life. You know. That was I think a
(16:52):
really good example of anxiety and self doubt, like the
two of them like combusting and creating such a you know,
a negative force in my mind. It wasn't real. It's
just you know, I just went left immediately. What about
(17:21):
codependency Does that that trigger yourself out as well? Yeah,
because think about it like this, codependency is you can't
It's an extreme version of I am half a person
and I need another half a person to be whole. Right,
It's not I'm a a whole individual. This other person
as a whole individual, and together we can be a
(17:42):
whole couple or a whole partnership, or you know, whatever
the case may be, whatever your relationship is to that person.
Codependency is really about we have to really sort of
lean on each other so much that neither one of
us can stand on our own. And of course that's
going to feed self out because you think about it,
if they're things that you should normally be able to
(18:02):
do without any difficulty, I think in our minds, the
codependency really sort of feeds this idea. Of course, I
can't do that unless I have this other person to
do whatever that thing is, So we don't give ourselves
an opportunity we are a part of working through self
doubt is giving yourself enough data to see that when
you're faced with a difficult situation, you can get through it.
(18:24):
But if you're codependent and you always need that other
person to help you get through whatever it is, when
do you ever learn the lesson that you alone, like
you said in your daily own, are good enough by
yourself just as you are. You don't give yourself an opportunity.
So to me, of course, that naturally is going to
feed self doubt. And I think that's a natural tendency
for those of us who have anxiety, especially if it's
(18:46):
really high level anxiety where it's with us all the
time and it's activated all the time. That's a natural
tendency to go there because we're not trusting ourselves that
we can do things on our own, and of course
we can't. We just need practice. Yeah, So how do
(19:07):
you think the pandemic has affected or triggered people when
it comes to self doubt, just that being forced to
be alone all the time. It is, Yeah, you're forced
to be alone with your thoughts, and you think about it,
you're you also don't have opportunities to practice. Again, My
thing is always about you gotta practice behaviors to learn
them and integrate them into your life day to day.
(19:30):
When do you get to practice things like, say, for example,
one of your things is you're socially shock, but you're
really trying to work on engaging people. The pandemic forced
you to be in the house more so, when do
you get to practice and what do you do? You
revert back to the stuff that makes you feel comfortable,
and sometimes the stuff that makes you feel comfortable. Remember
what it said, the devil, you know, it's been a
devil you don't know, but it's still a devil. You're
(19:50):
hanging out with that devil of self doubt and it
just you're allowing it to grow. I think there's a
part of it said that. I think there's a part
of it where we think about things like depression and
anxiet iety often go together, right, So you're maybe frustrated
because you're in the house anxious. Your anxiety is growing,
and then you get sad because your anxiety is getting worse,
(20:10):
and then it's just a vicious cycle. So when do
you get the opportunity to help pull yourself out of
that if you're not out of the house doing things
that help you relieve your anxiety. I remember one of
the things you said was you like to be out
in nature, okay and right, and the nature and nature
helps you. I'm the same way. I like to be
outside running the walk, and especially we have like creeks
(20:30):
and streams by where I live. I love being by
the water. What happens if I can't get outside to
be by the water, I'm just sitting with that anxiety.
And one more thing I'll add is people who are
able to do things like let's say you figured out
that exercise really helps you with your anxiety, and you
really like to go to the gym. During the pandemic,
(20:51):
the gym was closed, right, so you couldn't go to
the gym, And now that it's open, maybe you're worried
about people are in there without masks. I don't go
in there getting no germs. I don't want to get
be exposed to COVID. And so you keep yourself in
the house. So I think there are lots of ways
in which, to your point, the pandemic and isolation and
quarantine have really fed people's anxieties, not intentionally, but it's
(21:13):
just a byproduct. So what are the different things Like,
are there exercises or that we can do to just
kind of help us with this, you know, things that
we can do to build up our self confidence. Absolutely,
so I think it's baby steps. So one of the
things we teach people when you're teaching them how to
(21:35):
manage anxiety is something called exposure treatment. I think that
without getting too formal, we can expose ourselves to things
step by step, in little baby steps to help us
get more acclimated to doing those things and develop more
confidence in ourselves that we can accomplish those things. So,
for example, like when you said your husband was talking
(21:57):
to you about going to this event by yourself, I
think an example of that might be can you sit quietly?
This is what I teach my patients when I work
with patients. Can you sit quietly and just visualize what
would it be like to show up at that event.
Let's just start there, work on breathing. What do you
need to do to help yourself be calm in the moment.
(22:18):
Maybe you need to count right, just count to ten.
Maybe you need to take deep breaths. I don't know.
Maybe you need to give yourself some affirmations, but just
pretend like you're in that moment and work yourself down
away from that high level anxiety. That step one, it's
just visualization. Step two might be let's go to an
event together together, and then you leave me by myself
(22:39):
for ten minutes and let me work on what it
feels like to be alone. But I know you're around
here somewhere right until you work your way up to
I actually can make an effort and make an attempt
to go to an event by myself. So it's that
visual visualization and practicing in baby steps. I always also
say prevention is always so much better and intervention. So
(23:01):
if you work on keeping your anxiety at a low
level daily, every day, you're doing something to help you
manage your anxiety. That and to build yourself confidence right,
reflecting on something that's good about you, practicing the affirmations,
setting your intention. For some people, that's prayer. If you
can find something that you can do every day to
(23:22):
reinforce your self confidence, reinforce something that you like about yourself,
for multiple things that you like about yourself, those things
start to become automatic. Remember how we were talking about
the automatic thoughts where our brains go normally. Right, you
gotta build it up the same way you like sort
of build yourself down into that self doubt. So it's
building ourselves back up, and it's practicing it every day,
(23:45):
so that it's prevention instead of waiting until we're in
the throws of oh my god, I hate myself, I
can't do it, and trying to talk ourselves out of it.
It's that's too hard. So prevention first is always the key. Okay,
all right, I have a lot of work to do.
All really too, I have a lot of work to do.
Is there any other advice that you would want to
(24:05):
give people who are dealing with self doubt like myself? Yes,
I would say two things. Come back to remember what
you said from the daily own and what I've learned
a long time ago. You're valuable because you exist. Remember
that daily. That's one thing too. Curate your news and
curate the sources of information that you allowed to come
(24:26):
into your space. Right. So some people love watching like
network news or you know, cable news, or whatever the
case may be, but it triggers anxiety, it makes them worry.
You gotta reduce the amount of news that you consume
because you're really trying to calibrate and make sure that
the stuff that you take in is not stuff that
sending your anxiety spinning. So always be mindful of what
(24:46):
you're consuming in all different kinds of ways. Exercise is important.
And then the final thing I will say, it's just
try to find that one piece of light within yourself.
Think about that one thing that you know you do
better than anybody else, and remind yourself of that constantly.
If you can continue to do that, you're always coming
(25:08):
back every day to something that makes you feel good
about yourself, that makes you positive, that gives you a boost,
And hopefully, if you do that enough, that thing becomes
automatic and you have at least one thing to help
counter any of those aspects of self doubt that you
might be feeling. Thank you so much for joining us,
(25:28):
Dr Alphie. That you know, I started out feeling anxious
about just having the conversation, but I'm so glad that
I did. I'm so glad that you agreed to come on.
So now it's time for this segment. Wouldn't you like
(25:48):
to know? And I want to ask you three rapid
fire questions before you leave. What book are you currently reading? Oh,
that's a good question. I'm always read in The Secret
some version of that always Okay, Yeah, I'm familiar with
that book. What's one thing you want to get off
your chest that I am? I have to remind myself
(26:09):
of this. I am fearless, I am unapologetic about who
I am as a black woman. I love myself and
I demand that people show up and respect me exactly
as I show up in the world. And don't ask
me to change anything. Girl. Yes, okay, and seen and cut.
(26:33):
What's the model you live by? Oh, one of my favorites.
I wish you lots of loving light and I'm always
hoping that your loving light and your mental health are
informed by good, culturally relevant science. I love that. I
love that model. And where can people find you on
social media? Yes? Of course. So my kids and their
(26:56):
friends call me drowthy d R A L F by E.
They always called me dropping, and somebody called me that yesterday,
and I'm picking up food and I put dr alf
They were like draft. I was like okay, so draftee
at all social media Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn whatever. Then I
have a website, dr Alfie dot com and then people
can also follow my nonprofit, thea COMA Project a a
(27:17):
k O M a Coma Project one word on all
social media. Thank you so much for joining us, dr Alfie,
thank you for using your platform for this, and thank
you for having me. I am you know, I'm up forever,
ever and ever fan and not just appreciate you and
your team so much. Thank you so much for joining
us today. My most important takeaways from today's conversation is
(27:40):
number one, your feelings are valid, but they're not always accurate.
And number two, we're valuable because we exist and that's
our show for today. You can follow me online at
gammy Nars. Also help us out by leaving a five
star review on Apple Podcasts and by hitting the follow
(28:00):
button on I Heart Radio, Stay gratefully all Positively. Gam
is produced by Red Table Talk Podcast and I Heart Radio.
Executive producers are Adrian Banfield, Naris Balin, Jethro and Jada
Pinkett Smith. Our audio engineer is Calvin Bayley and our
associate producer is Irene Bischoff Burger. Our theme song is
(28:24):
produced by D Beats
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