October 16, 2024 • 29 mins
Are influencer marketing programs really that out of reach for small businesses?
Stephanie Lichtenstein, President and Founder of Micro Media Marketing, returns to 10 Minute Marketing to shed light on how businesses, big or small, can harness the power of influencers. If you're curious about how user-generated content and authentic influencer relationships can elevate your brand, Stephanie walks you through the whole scope of the influencer marketing process. This ranges from selecting the right type of influencer—nano to mega—to creatively leveraging product offerings in lieu of cash compensation, to behind-the-scenes influencer onboarding communications.
Sonja and Stephanie share compelling stories of clients who've had good versus bad experiences with influencer partnerships and why. They explain the importance of building relationships with influencers not based on follower count, but by engagements, community, and content quality. With insights into influencer-audience dynamics, Stephanie reveals strategies and resources to not just reach but resonate with your target market, maximizing both impact and budget.
After the episode, listeners are invited to check out microsocialcontent.com, focused on social media video and content services for your in-house team. There, Stephanie's offering a free ebook, "Unlock 10 Power Moves to Skyrocket Your Social Media Brand," to help you learn simple, actionable strategies that will grow your online presence fast.
And in case you missed Stephanie's last appearance on 10 Minute Marketing, you can check out that episode, "Entrepreneurial Insights From A Digital Marketing Maven," here!
About Stephanie Lichtenstein and Micro Media Marketing
Stephanie Lichtenstein is the President and Founder of Micro Media Marketing. Stephanie’s passion for social media is contagious, it has led her to work with SMB to Fortune 500 companies such as HarperCollins, Hubbell, and Colliers International. 14 years ago she launched Micro Media with a dream in New York City working out of borrowed office space from Gary Vaynerchuck's Vaynermedia offices, she is now headquartered in Miami with team members throughout the US including in Chicago. Since then, Stephanie never looked back on her dream to share her passion for social media with online businesses and brands. Her biggest achievement is growing brands along with her team of women and stay-at-home moms specializing in the home decor space and spaces that speak to a woman audience.
Follow Stephanie on LinkedIn and Instagram.
Learn More about Micro Media Marketing's social media management for brands and follow them on Instagram.
You can also email Stephanie for a free social media audit for your brand at social@micromediamarketing.com or schedule a meeting to grow your social media today.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sonja Crystal Williams (00:05):
Hi everyone.
Welcome to today's episode of10 Minute Marketing.
I'm your host, Sona CrystalWilliams.
I've got a special guest backwith us today.
Welcome back, Stephanie, Goodto see you.
Stephanie Lichtenstein (00:17):
Thank you so much for having me.
I feel like we did this aroundthis time last year, so I'm
excited to be back again withsome updates for you.
Sonja Crystal Williams (00:26):
Yes, and if you all haven't listened to
our previous episode together,Stephanie is the president of
Micromedia Marketing.
She's also a dear friend andkind of a marketing partner I've
really turned to for many yearswhen we worked on several
projects together.
Today, I asked Stephanie tocome back to the show
specifically so we could talkabout influencer marketing,
(00:46):
because that's been one areathat your agency has really
thrived and I just want to getinto this topic and some of the
other recent episodes.
We talked a lot about trendshappening with digital marketing
and social media and I feellike influencer marketing has
been one of those trends thatyou kind of see as a business
(01:06):
owner, but I think for somesmall businesses they don't
always feel like it's withingrasp, that it's like only
something that big brands can do.
So I want to dig a little intothat and I want to start by just
asking you a really generalquestion.
Maybe it's loaded, but what doyou think, Stephanie, is the
value of an influencer for anybusiness or any brand?
Stephanie Lichtenstein (01:29):
Yeah.
So I see how you could say thatsome brands might see really
large companies having, you know, thousands of dollars budgets
to work with influencers andthat does happen.
But I've been able to look at adifferent variety of
influencers, from nano to microto mega, so there's all kinds
(01:51):
that you can work with and youcan really start at any budget.
You'd actually be surprised.
I even launched a housewareproduct for kitchenware and the
budget was really only sendingproducts, and we were able to
find some smaller, nano andmicro influencers to work with.
Now, what is the value behindthat?
Well, video is growing and hasgrown over the years.
(02:15):
So if you don't have thoseresources in-house, number one,
I think it's an amazing way todrive up really good video
content for your social mediachannels.
But the second thing is, if youdon't really have someone day-
to- day that could be the faceof your brand, putting out
content about your brand,talking about your brand, you
(02:35):
can utilize this as anadditional resource to create
content and to show a uniqueside coming from someone else,
so it could even be coming fromyour consumers.
Some brands can even be taggedwith user generated content.
So content, I would say, isnumber one.
But then, outside of that, whatcan you do with that?
(02:56):
Well, you can utilize that notonly across your social, but you
can use that across a lot ofother marketing channels.
So that's why I think it's areally important tool that can
be used for any size brand.
Sonja Crystal Williams (03:08):
I love the way that you broke that down
.
So we have nano and microinfluencers.
Define that for people whodon't know the difference.
Stephanie Lichtenstein (03:15):
So let's go through all the kinds of
influencers.
Yeah, so nano is someone thatreally has can even be like
about a thousand followers.
So when you're looking more atmicro, macro and mega
influencers, that's where youget in the range of one to
(03:37):
10,000, then 10 to 50, 50 to 100, 500 and up.
The mega are really like in themillions.
We tend to work more with microinfluencers that are between
around 50 to 100,000.
And in some cases we can get upto like 500,000 followers.
(03:57):
And we've worked a lot in thespace that's talking to women
and home decor type brands.
So we've worked in the sectorthat's in furniture, lighting,
and we've been able to findreally nice partners that are in
that size, that range.
But there's also I've kind ofhinted a little bit at UGC
(04:20):
content.
So user-generated content isn'tnecessarily coming from what
you would categorize as aninfluencer, but it is coming
from someone that is creatingcontent on their channels and
they're really excited about,you know, certain kinds of
content.
They might not have that hugefollowing, but they can create
high quality video content foryou.
(04:40):
So they might be interested inactually working with you for
product instead of payment.
So the larger the influencergets, that's where you do need
to have hundreds or thousands ofdollars in budget to be able to
pay in exchange for even onepost or one story linking back
to you.
But if you are able to look atmaybe in your niche, someone
(05:05):
that has a smaller following,you can talk to them and do a
post for a few hundred dollarsor even for a few hundred in
product instead of payment, andyou can come up with some good
deals and some good ways to workwith people.
So it doesn't always have to bebased on a dollar amount.
(05:25):
A lot of times, look into thelarger influencers it is but you
can also go a little bitsmaller and look at offering
product, but look at workingwith people longer term.
So try to build a moreauthentic relationship with them
.
See if they're reallyinterested in the category that
you're talking about, if they'repassionate about it, if you can
work with them more than just aone- off basis.
(05:48):
There's other things that youcan do with them.
If you have, say, an Amazonstore, they could actually link
back to your Amazon store andmake commissions on the products
that they're promoting.
So it is important to try tofind someone that aligns with
what your brand is about, and ina lot of cases we have found
people that are a little smaller.
(06:09):
Their audience engages withthem a lot and we've been able
to grow with them over the years.
So they might have startedsmall had we have a.
You know, we take a good lookat how does their engagement
look, not just their following.
What's the quality of theircontent, and if we see like a
value there and we're aligningwith our goals together, we
stick with them, work with themlonger term and then over time
(06:31):
they start to grow as well, andthen you already have that
relationship established andyou're able to continue to work
with them when they do getbigger.
And then, yes, you might haveto switch to payment, but you
already have that relationshipin place and it's something that
you can make work.
Sonja Crystal Williams (06:47):
Yeah, I think it's a huge opportunity,
to your point, to create likewin- win scenarios, especially
if there's an opportunity tostart with the influencer, or
maybe they're just that UGCcreator when they're smaller,
and then grow over time.
You also alluded to two of myother questions, one being
budget, and you brought up thegood point that, yeah, it's not
(07:14):
always a monetary exchange.
Stephanie Lichtenstein (07:14):
I always say like working with
influencers is like the wildwild west.
There's no way I can be.
Sonja Crystal Williams (07:17):
Yeah, yeah, I've seen it all, yeah
exactly and, and so there couldbe some instances where, if your
product is desirable to some ofthose potential influencers or
the user generated contentcreators, they're going to just
say "hey, I'd like your productin exchange.
And then there's going to bethe people who, to your point
(07:39):
the micro influencers, the megainfluencers who have hundreds of
thousands of followers plusgrow influencers, the mega
influencers who have hundreds ofthousands of followers plus and
they're like no, I get paid,you know $10,000, right, this
video together.
Stephanie Lichtenstein (07:50):
Yeah, so , like I can give you an example
too, because I've one of thethings I've done too is when
growing brands and launchingeven brand new social media
accounts, I've reached out topartners that are really
interested.
So, like I mentioned, we're inthe home decor space, so we've
worked in lighting and beddingand we had a new client working
(08:11):
in furniture.
So we were able to approachalready established connections
and this influencer that I'mthinking of, she has 700,000
followers.
Generally, I think if you weremessaging her cold, you know it
would be straight to payment.
But what's nice about workingwith someone like her is she
(08:31):
does DIY projects and she worksin different homes and she does
a lot of interior design.
So partnering with someone likeher is great, because when
you're doing home decor products, it's not just about her fixing
her home and then being done,it's her working on different
projects.
So over time, we've been ableto establish relationships like
(08:53):
that.
So we reached out to her andsaid we have this brand new
brand.
It's beautiful.
We had even a call with her totell her a little bit about the
story, about why they decided todesign the brand and how it
came to be, and she absolutelyloved it.
We gave her, I would say, alittle over $1,000 in product
(09:16):
for her kitchen.
She got a set of bar stools.
Her fans went absolutely wildfor it.
She even showed how easy it wasto put it together, how quick
the shipping was and everyoneloved it and those bar stools
actually sold out.
Now that doesn't happen everyday, but what's great about that
(09:37):
is we went back to her and whenwe started expanding other
lines, we were sending herothers and she also did have an
Amazon store.
So in addition to alwaysreceiving at least about $1,000
worth of product, she's also,when these items were selling
out, she's also able to make acommission off of those specific
sales.
So that's how we were able towork with her by giving product
(10:01):
and also that commission throughAmazon's influencer program.
So that's just a great exampleof how you can work with someone
bigger and you don't have tospend $10,000 for one post.
Because I do want to say youhave to be careful with your
budget and set goals of what youwant to do, and I would put and
(10:24):
have put money behind campaigns, but I do it when I already
have that establishedrelationship and we know how
it's going to go, because I'veseen some companies spend very
large budgets without, you know,really knowing the influencers
and, like you said, it's thewild, wild west, so some really
large influencers, you knowyou'd be surprised that it could
(10:49):
be a little hit or misssometimes if someone's posting
all the time and just tagging abunch of brands and they're just
posting it in a Story and theydon't even want to leave it up
for you know, it's justsomething that's up for 24 hours
.
It might not get you the samekind of results that you're
expecting.
Just because someone has amillion followers, you have to
look at who's really theiraudience, are they really
(11:11):
engaging with them.
Are they really talking aboutthe same things that my product
is about?
You know, if it's, if it'sglasses, designer glasses are
they really talking aboutfashion?
And that's something else.
Another kind of campaign we'rerunning right now, we're talking
to influencers that are so intoFashion Week and that's, that's
what they're talking about.
That's what their audience isinto.
(11:31):
So you have to make sure youreally are looking at everything
that they're doing with theircontent and how their audience
is responding to that, and notjust spending your budget, you
know, just on one post withoutknowing what the results might
be.
Sonja Crystal Williams (11:47):
Yeah, I think that was like, I think, a
lesson learned for a lot ofbrands, big and small, maybe as
early as a few years ago whenpeople were getting more into
influencer marketing and justlooking at the numbers of, oh,
this person has a millionfollowers, they must have an
amazing account and not takingthose things you said into
account, what's the quality?
(12:09):
What's the conversation?
What does the engagement looklike?
A friend of mine years ago inthe fitness industry kind of ran
into a similar mistake ofhiring an influencer with a
million plus followers, only tofind that after spending I think
he paid this person about fourthousand dollars to promote his
brand.
(12:30):
Right, her million plusfollowers were not the women, in
this case, that he wasintending to target, but was a
60 percent male audience womenin this case that he was
intending to target but was a 60male audience and, oh, yes,
right, if you look at thecomments, maybe it was men that
were telling her how beautifulshe was, but not actually women
(12:50):
that were interested in in theproduct she was talking about.
Stephanie Lichtenstein (12:53):
Yeah, that's, that's right, that's so
important.
Um, actually, now that youmentioned that, that makes me
think of you said your friendspent $4,000 working with one
influencer and you know that'skind of the results that they
saw.
I want to touch a little bit onuser generated content.
Okay, because for a client andI was talking about fashion.
(13:14):
So this is another clientthat's in designer sunglasses
and eyeglasses and they werealso launching a fairly new page
and didn't have really like aface behind the brand.
So we were able to find areally amazing like personality,
bubbly, excited about fashion.
(13:35):
That was in New York, wherethey're located, and we were
able to form a partnership withher where I believe and it's not
exact, but I believe it forabout 1500 a month, we're
getting a lot of great qualityvideos.
So every month we're able tosend her new sunglasses and
(13:58):
eyeglasses and get usergenerated content for their
channel.
But this is more like a voicebehind the brand.
But for that budget imagine,for the $4,000, you can finish
all of Q4, have all theseamazing videos.
So when we launched thisearlier this year, it was
amazing for the account becausethrough her content we not only
(14:19):
were able to you know, have havethe page grow a bit, but the
content isn't only being used onsocial media.
You can also utilize thiscontent on your website.
You can, if you get thepermission and agree and you
agree to it with them you canutilize the content on your
advertising and that's somethingthat has been a game changer,
(14:42):
because that page started prettymuch at zero and it's almost at
5000.
And it's all been focusedaround that content and for that
budget we were really able togenerate like a face for the
brand.
Now she was, she's more up andcoming and she doesn't have a
big following, but she's beenamazing to work with.
We work with her on scripts andwhat kind of, you know, videos
(15:06):
we want for the seasons and forthe new products we're going to
launch, and we've had an amazingexperience and that's why I do
think it is worth at times togive a chance to someone that
that might be a little smallerif the quality of the content is
good, if the ideas are reallygood and if you're in line with
(15:27):
what you want to do.
And then, when you work withsomeone bigger or you put a
bigger budget behind it, you doit with someone that you know,
you have some experience andtrust with and that you really
understand that their audienceis the right audience for you.
And when that is the case, itcan be a huge home run.
You can sell out your product.
But there is other kinds andother sizes of influencers that
(15:47):
you can also work with.
That can be a great fit.
Sonja Crystal Williams (15:49):
Yeah, now break something down for me.
You mentioned working with inthat particular case with this
influencer for the sunglassescompany, but just in general,
like you mentioned scripts andsitting down and coming up with
ideas, and what is the work thatgoes behind the scenes?
Yeah, is it just hey, I'mpaying an influencer or I'm
sending them product?
(16:09):
Go crazy, do what we need youto do," or is there guidance
associated?
Like what should a brandmanager or a social media
manager be thinking about oncethey're establishing a
relationship with an influencer?
Stephanie Lichtenstein (16:23):
Yeah, there definitely should be
expectations, guidelines, thereshould be an agreement.
So there's actually a lot thatgoes on behind the scenes and
even if you talk to someone andyou send them product and
they're going to be posting,they could--a n influencer,
especially a bigger influencer,could be scheduled out and have
plans and campaigns, you know,for the next month.
So you do actually have to planahead.
(16:45):
You have to manage a lot ofcommunication.
So there are different toolsthat can be used as well to do
that.
We love using Later forscheduling, and they just rolled
out a tool for influencermanagement.
There's Up fluence.
There's Aspire IO for UGC.
We've been using Social Cat.
So what's nice is you don'twant to really be on Instagram
(17:10):
just DMing people.
Okay, that I mean, that's whatwe used to do back in the day,
but that could take so long.
So there are tools now that youcan utilize, and some of them
cost a few hundred dollars.
So they're not, you know, itdepends on what you're looking
for, but they're notoutrageously priced.
But you do want to setguidelines and expectations.
(17:30):
We usually have a few differentthings.
So, first and foremost, we havean influencer welcome kit that
gives them an idea about who weare, because how are they going
to know who they're talkingabout if they don't really
understand the brand that well?
So it gives them like a bit ofour story.
We give them examples of whatwe're looking for.
We don't tell them exact scriptwith the UGC face of the brand,
(17:55):
those were more scripted, buton a general day- to- day
campaign.
We don't give them a scriptbecause we want it to come off
natural and organic.
But we do want guidelines.
We do want to make sure, youknow, that that they're tagging
us.
We want to make sure that theyknow a few key points of what we
might want them to feature.
But we give them generalguidelines and then we give them
(18:18):
examples as well.
We also have, you know, havethem sign an agreement, because
some influencers don't want youto utilize their content in
advertising and you might haveto pay more for that.
If you do, some do let youutilize it in advertising and it
can be really amazing.
So I wouldn't just use thecontent once and just put it on
your page.
There's so many different waysthat you can utilize it.
(18:40):
It can help with conversions onyour website.
So if someone's looking at yourproduct and then they see how
someone's wearing something orsomehow how it fits someone, and
it doesn't look like just acatalog type photo.
It's a real person experiencingyour product like we did
something with a vegan skincareline and really showing the
(19:00):
results and having people youknow utilize the product and
talk about how it makes themfeel, how it makes them feel
great and how it's helped them.
Those are things that, youknow, it's one thing for you to
say something about your ownbrand, and it's something else
for a real day-to-day consumerto talk about how it's helped
them or how much they love it,their experience with it.
(19:22):
So I would definitely recommendutilizing that kind of content
across different places.
So you got to make sure, though, if you have it in advertising,
that it is something that hasbeen agreed to, um.
So basically it's that, andthen it's giving a time frame
for when it's expected to bepublished and then taking it
(19:43):
from there.
But it is a lot of back andforth communication.
Right now, we're doing a fewcampaigns for Fashion Week in
New York, and I have aninfluencer that was going to do
New York but she was traveling,and now she's going to do
Fashion Week Paris.
So you have to--i t's greatbecause you know a lot of these
influencers get to travel andthen you can get amazing content
around the world.
But you do have to have alittle bit of flexibility.
(20:06):
But usually it depends on theproduct, but I will usually give
them like a two to four weekwindow.
For other products it can takeup to two months, like for the
bar stools.
You know, they needed to maybeinstall or finish a product that
they were doing so, but you dowant to have a--y ou might not
give a specific hard date,unless it's like a Black Friday,
(20:27):
Cyber Monday campaign, but youdo want to have like a window
like within by this date, two tofour weeks by this date.
And then you and then, yes, you, you do have to have someone
managing that.
So the communication is constant.
I would say at least once aweek, if not more, just checking
in.
Do they need anything?
Do they have any questionsabout the product?
(20:49):
You know it's a bit of back andforth, but then one thing I
think is really important iskeeping track of the success
getting from them and sharingthose reports with the clients,
but also seeing like who arethose?
Like shining star influencers,even if they're smaller, because
then we look at them and wecontinuously work with them for
(21:10):
campaigns.
So right now we're doingsomething for Fashion Week and
then for fall, but then we'relooking at the holidays, so we
really like to see you know whoout of those partners has been a
success that we want tocontinue to work with, and I
went off on a tangent, but Ihave some clients that even turn
those into brand ambassadors ormore long term partners for
(21:30):
their brand as well.
Sonja Crystal Williams (21:33):
I think you have truly broken it down
and, for the person who soundsoverwhelmed, this is what
Stephanie does.
This is the day- to- day.
This is why you bring an agencyon board to do this stuff.
You can do it yourself, right?
But at the same time, there'sso many pieces to manage.
Stephanie Lichtenstein (21:50):
Yeah, it does.
Actually it sounds like a lot,but it's very exciting and it's
again.
Imagine you having to sit downand create a dozen videos and
instead it does sound like a lot, but with these platforms now
and being able to manage themthere, we're able to sit down
and at once get 15 to 30 UGCcontent creators that we select.
(22:24):
So we get a lot of applications, we go through them all, we
select and make sure thatthey're a good fit, and then
we're able to get the videodelivered in a more timely
manner.
And then we can have all theseuniform campaigns.
Like right now we're launchingone for fall, and then we'll
transition into the holidays.
But we used to only do the day-to- day influencer management
(22:47):
for our clients that we wouldmanage all their social media
pages for, but it's become sopopular that now we do also
offer the UGC campaigns.
Just for someone that isrunning social in-house that
might say, "hey, we need alittle bit of help with this, we
need a little more video, weneed something for the holidays,
and that's a new service thatwe're offering as well.
Sonja Crystal Williams (23:11):
Perfect, so that's a standalone offering
.
That is so awesome.
Stephanie Lichtenstein (23:14):
Yeah, yeah.
There's just such a need for itnow, so we decided to roll it
out this year.
Sonja Crystal Williams (23:19):
Yeah, it is the exploding trend and,
like you said earlier, it goeshand- in- hand with the need for
video content creation and someof these brands that don't have
that person and this is a greatway to get it.
So thank you so much forsharing this amazing breakdown
of influencer marketing, seeingwhere it all fits together,
Stephanie.
I want to end this episode witha couple of questions for our
(23:43):
lightning round.
So first question we talkedabout this a little bit in the
previous episode about how muchyou love to travel and we just
had those conversations ingeneral of the many places that
you've been, let's just saylately, what's been one of your
most memorable travel moments?
Stephanie Lichtenstein (24:02):
Oh, my goodness.
Well, I think we talked aboutthis before.
I've been spending the summersin Montreal now, so I've been
learning how to speak French andI've been having the best time.
Actually, my husband got me, Idon't know if you could see this
little necklace.
This year I actually got myFrench passport, so I've been
(24:30):
just really trying to embrace,you know, more of a French
lifestyle, and it's not thisyear, but next year, I'm having
a big birthday milestone, so I'mgoing to go celebrate it in
Paris, so I'm really excited andplanning that out and looking
forward to that.
(24:51):
But yeah, I, I love the factthat when we work remote, we can
can travel around and I waseven able to see you in Montreal
while you were here for atraining session.
So I've loved that and that'sbeen amazing.
Sonja Crystal Williams (25:04):
That's beautiful.
So you've got memorable moments.
Stephanie Lichtenstein (25:08):
Yeah, this Paris one is like one of
the most memorable ones.
I'm really I'm-- well, actuallymy goddaughter, who's also,
who's turning 16, nd then I'mhaving a milestone that I don't
want to say which one, but she'sgoing to plan and we're going
to meet out there.
So going to plan and we'regoing to meet, we're going to
(25:31):
meet out there.
So she's going to celebrate her16th and I'm going to celebrate
mine with her as well.
biopic on the Lifetime ofStephanie that's going to get
released.
What would your goddaughter,your nieces, nephews, whoever,
grandma, mom, what would peoplesay about you in the biopic?
Oh, my goodness.
Well, talking about mygoddaughter, I do want her to
(25:54):
see like a strong female womanthat's independent, that can
travel, that can work, that canhave that balance.
There was a time, though,especially when I first started
my company, where she would seeme working all the time and she
would say-- she calls me Popo,and she would say, "oh I, this
is Popo, popo's working, popo'sworking.
(26:16):
So I've actually been over thepast couple years, even through
COVID, working on a balance ofbeing that strong, hardworking
woman, but also having thatbalance of being able to travel
and that's something that Istarted doing last year with
Rick and and living life, sohaving having that good balance
(26:37):
and showing her that examplethat you can, you can do it all,
but it's I used to really justfocus just on work, and now I
try to enjoy both things.
So I can work, I can grow mycompany.
I can enjoy that, but I canalso enjoy my family, my friends
, seeing lovely people like youthat come come to visit.
I'm lucky because, when I'vebeen traveling around, my
(27:00):
friends and family have come tovisit us as well, so being able
to spend that time with them isamazing, but I do want to set
that example for her and forjust the women I work with.
Like, I have a team of womenthat are friends, and some of my
friends and moms, and I justwant to show them and empower
(27:21):
them that they can have it alland they can have that lifestyle
freedom of being remote that welove so much too.
Sonja Crystal Williams (27:29):
I hear you, I'm living in that era.
Stephanie Lichtenstein (27:31):
Yeah you've been traveling and I love
that you take your kids withyou and I don't see everyone do
that and I just love seeing that.
I'm so happy that you do that.
Sonja Crystal Williams (27:42):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
All right, Stephanie.
Where can people find moreinformation about the services
you offer?
Stephanie Lichtenstein (27:50):
So my company is called Micromedia
Marketing.
We just turned 15 years old acouple of months ago, but in
that milestone we also launchedmicrosocialcontent.
com, and the reason we did thatis because we manage the day-
to- day, but there's so manybrands that their teams need
help.
Their teams need support.
So now we have those serviceswhere you can get your own UGC
(28:13):
video content and we can workwith your internal team and I
did, specifically for thispodcast, I came up with some
great tips to share for your in-house teams.
So if you go tomicroocialcontent.
com, there's a free ebook at thetop as well.
If they wanna get some feedbackand some tips, so that's up
(28:34):
there too.
So, yeah, check those out.
And if you want me to reviewyour brand on social media, you
can reach out at social@micromediamarketing.
com.
Sonja Crystal Williams (28:46):
All right, awesome, Stephanie.
Thanks so much for being on theshow again.
Until then, everyone, have agood one.
Bye, thank you, bye.
Hi everyone.
Welcome to today's episode of10 Minute Marketing.
I'm your host, Sona CrystalWilliams.
I've got a special guest backwith us today.
Welcome back, Stephanie, Goodto see you.
Stephanie Lichtenstein (00:17):
Thank you so much for having me.
I feel like we did this aroundthis time last year, so I'm
excited to be back again withsome updates for you.
Sonja Crystal Williams (00:26):
Yes, and if you all haven't listened to
our previous episode together,Stephanie is the president of
Micromedia Marketing.
She's also a dear friend andkind of a marketing partner I've
really turned to for many yearswhen we worked on several
projects together.
Today, I asked Stephanie tocome back to the show
specifically so we could talkabout influencer marketing,
(00:46):
because that's been one areathat your agency has really
thrived and I just want to getinto this topic and some of the
other recent episodes.
We talked a lot about trendshappening with digital marketing
and social media and I feellike influencer marketing has
been one of those trends thatyou kind of see as a business
(01:06):
owner, but I think for somesmall businesses they don't
always feel like it's withingrasp, that it's like only
something that big brands can do.
So I want to dig a little intothat and I want to start by just
asking you a really generalquestion.
Maybe it's loaded, but what doyou think, Stephanie, is the
value of an influencer for anybusiness or any brand?
Stephanie Lichtenstein (01:29):
Yeah.
So I see how you could say thatsome brands might see really
large companies having, you know, thousands of dollars budgets
to work with influencers andthat does happen.
But I've been able to look at adifferent variety of
influencers, from nano to microto mega, so there's all kinds
(01:51):
that you can work with and youcan really start at any budget.
You'd actually be surprised.
I even launched a housewareproduct for kitchenware and the
budget was really only sendingproducts, and we were able to
find some smaller, nano andmicro influencers to work with.
Now, what is the value behindthat?
Well, video is growing and hasgrown over the years.
(02:15):
So if you don't have thoseresources in-house, number one,
I think it's an amazing way todrive up really good video
content for your social mediachannels.
But the second thing is, if youdon't really have someone day-
to- day that could be the faceof your brand, putting out
content about your brand,talking about your brand, you
(02:35):
can utilize this as anadditional resource to create
content and to show a uniqueside coming from someone else,
so it could even be coming fromyour consumers.
Some brands can even be taggedwith user generated content.
So content, I would say, isnumber one.
But then, outside of that, whatcan you do with that?
(02:56):
Well, you can utilize that notonly across your social, but you
can use that across a lot ofother marketing channels.
So that's why I think it's areally important tool that can
be used for any size brand.
Sonja Crystal Williams (03:08):
I love the way that you broke that down
.
So we have nano and microinfluencers.
Define that for people whodon't know the difference.
Stephanie Lichtenstein (03:15):
So let's go through all the kinds of
influencers.
Yeah, so nano is someone thatreally has can even be like
about a thousand followers.
So when you're looking more atmicro, macro and mega
influencers, that's where youget in the range of one to
(03:37):
10,000, then 10 to 50, 50 to 100, 500 and up.
The mega are really like in themillions.
We tend to work more with microinfluencers that are between
around 50 to 100,000.
And in some cases we can get upto like 500,000 followers.
(03:57):
And we've worked a lot in thespace that's talking to women
and home decor type brands.
So we've worked in the sectorthat's in furniture, lighting,
and we've been able to findreally nice partners that are in
that size, that range.
But there's also I've kind ofhinted a little bit at UGC
(04:20):
content.
So user-generated content isn'tnecessarily coming from what
you would categorize as aninfluencer, but it is coming
from someone that is creatingcontent on their channels and
they're really excited about,you know, certain kinds of
content.
They might not have that hugefollowing, but they can create
high quality video content foryou.
(04:40):
So they might be interested inactually working with you for
product instead of payment.
So the larger the influencergets, that's where you do need
to have hundreds or thousands ofdollars in budget to be able to
pay in exchange for even onepost or one story linking back
to you.
But if you are able to look atmaybe in your niche, someone
(05:05):
that has a smaller following,you can talk to them and do a
post for a few hundred dollarsor even for a few hundred in
product instead of payment, andyou can come up with some good
deals and some good ways to workwith people.
So it doesn't always have to bebased on a dollar amount.
(05:25):
A lot of times, look into thelarger influencers it is but you
can also go a little bitsmaller and look at offering
product, but look at workingwith people longer term.
So try to build a moreauthentic relationship with them
.
See if they're reallyinterested in the category that
you're talking about, if they'repassionate about it, if you can
work with them more than just aone- off basis.
(05:48):
There's other things that youcan do with them.
If you have, say, an Amazonstore, they could actually link
back to your Amazon store andmake commissions on the products
that they're promoting.
So it is important to try tofind someone that aligns with
what your brand is about, and ina lot of cases we have found
people that are a little smaller.
(06:09):
Their audience engages withthem a lot and we've been able
to grow with them over the years.
So they might have startedsmall had we have a.
You know, we take a good lookat how does their engagement
look, not just their following.
What's the quality of theircontent, and if we see like a
value there and we're aligningwith our goals together, we
stick with them, work with themlonger term and then over time
(06:31):
they start to grow as well, andthen you already have that
relationship established andyou're able to continue to work
with them when they do getbigger.
And then, yes, you might haveto switch to payment, but you
already have that relationshipin place and it's something that
you can make work.
Sonja Crystal Williams (06:47):
Yeah, I think it's a huge opportunity,
to your point, to create likewin- win scenarios, especially
if there's an opportunity tostart with the influencer, or
maybe they're just that UGCcreator when they're smaller,
and then grow over time.
You also alluded to two of myother questions, one being
budget, and you brought up thegood point that, yeah, it's not
(07:14):
always a monetary exchange.
Stephanie Lichtenstein (07:14):
I always say like working with
influencers is like the wildwild west.
There's no way I can be.
Sonja Crystal Williams (07:17):
Yeah, yeah, I've seen it all, yeah
exactly and, and so there couldbe some instances where, if your
product is desirable to some ofthose potential influencers or
the user generated contentcreators, they're going to just
say "hey, I'd like your productin exchange.
And then there's going to bethe people who, to your point
(07:39):
the micro influencers, the megainfluencers who have hundreds of
thousands of followers plusgrow influencers, the mega
influencers who have hundreds ofthousands of followers plus and
they're like no, I get paid,you know $10,000, right, this
video together.
Stephanie Lichtenstein (07:50):
Yeah, so , like I can give you an example
too, because I've one of thethings I've done too is when
growing brands and launchingeven brand new social media
accounts, I've reached out topartners that are really
interested.
So, like I mentioned, we're inthe home decor space, so we've
worked in lighting and beddingand we had a new client working
(08:11):
in furniture.
So we were able to approachalready established connections
and this influencer that I'mthinking of, she has 700,000
followers.
Generally, I think if you weremessaging her cold, you know it
would be straight to payment.
But what's nice about workingwith someone like her is she
(08:31):
does DIY projects and she worksin different homes and she does
a lot of interior design.
So partnering with someone likeher is great, because when
you're doing home decor products, it's not just about her fixing
her home and then being done,it's her working on different
projects.
So over time, we've been ableto establish relationships like
(08:53):
that.
So we reached out to her andsaid we have this brand new
brand.
It's beautiful.
We had even a call with her totell her a little bit about the
story, about why they decided todesign the brand and how it
came to be, and she absolutelyloved it.
We gave her, I would say, alittle over $1,000 in product
(09:16):
for her kitchen.
She got a set of bar stools.
Her fans went absolutely wildfor it.
She even showed how easy it wasto put it together, how quick
the shipping was and everyoneloved it and those bar stools
actually sold out.
Now that doesn't happen everyday, but what's great about that
(09:37):
is we went back to her and whenwe started expanding other
lines, we were sending herothers and she also did have an
Amazon store.
So in addition to alwaysreceiving at least about $1,000
worth of product, she's also,when these items were selling
out, she's also able to make acommission off of those specific
sales.
So that's how we were able towork with her by giving product
(10:01):
and also that commission throughAmazon's influencer program.
So that's just a great exampleof how you can work with someone
bigger and you don't have tospend $10,000 for one post.
Because I do want to say youhave to be careful with your
budget and set goals of what youwant to do, and I would put and
(10:24):
have put money behind campaigns, but I do it when I already
have that establishedrelationship and we know how
it's going to go, because I'veseen some companies spend very
large budgets without, you know,really knowing the influencers
and, like you said, it's thewild, wild west, so some really
large influencers, you knowyou'd be surprised that it could
(10:49):
be a little hit or misssometimes if someone's posting
all the time and just tagging abunch of brands and they're just
posting it in a Story and theydon't even want to leave it up
for you know, it's justsomething that's up for 24 hours
.
It might not get you the samekind of results that you're
expecting.
Just because someone has amillion followers, you have to
look at who's really theiraudience, are they really
(11:11):
engaging with them.
Are they really talking aboutthe same things that my product
is about?
You know, if it's, if it'sglasses, designer glasses are
they really talking aboutfashion?
And that's something else.
Another kind of campaign we'rerunning right now, we're talking
to influencers that are so intoFashion Week and that's, that's
what they're talking about.
That's what their audience isinto.
(11:31):
So you have to make sure youreally are looking at everything
that they're doing with theircontent and how their audience
is responding to that, and notjust spending your budget, you
know, just on one post withoutknowing what the results might
be.
Sonja Crystal Williams (11:47):
Yeah, I think that was like, I think, a
lesson learned for a lot ofbrands, big and small, maybe as
early as a few years ago whenpeople were getting more into
influencer marketing and justlooking at the numbers of, oh,
this person has a millionfollowers, they must have an
amazing account and not takingthose things you said into
account, what's the quality?
(12:09):
What's the conversation?
What does the engagement looklike?
A friend of mine years ago inthe fitness industry kind of ran
into a similar mistake ofhiring an influencer with a
million plus followers, only tofind that after spending I think
he paid this person about fourthousand dollars to promote his
brand.
(12:30):
Right, her million plusfollowers were not the women, in
this case, that he wasintending to target, but was a
60 percent male audience womenin this case that he was
intending to target but was a 60male audience and, oh, yes,
right, if you look at thecomments, maybe it was men that
were telling her how beautifulshe was, but not actually women
(12:50):
that were interested in in theproduct she was talking about.
Stephanie Lichtenstein (12:53):
Yeah, that's, that's right, that's so
important.
Um, actually, now that youmentioned that, that makes me
think of you said your friendspent $4,000 working with one
influencer and you know that'skind of the results that they
saw.
I want to touch a little bit onuser generated content.
Okay, because for a client andI was talking about fashion.
(13:14):
So this is another clientthat's in designer sunglasses
and eyeglasses and they werealso launching a fairly new page
and didn't have really like aface behind the brand.
So we were able to find areally amazing like personality,
bubbly, excited about fashion.
(13:35):
That was in New York, wherethey're located, and we were
able to form a partnership withher where I believe and it's not
exact, but I believe it forabout 1500 a month, we're
getting a lot of great qualityvideos.
So every month we're able tosend her new sunglasses and
(13:58):
eyeglasses and get usergenerated content for their
channel.
But this is more like a voicebehind the brand.
But for that budget imagine,for the $4,000, you can finish
all of Q4, have all theseamazing videos.
So when we launched thisearlier this year, it was
amazing for the account becausethrough her content we not only
(14:19):
were able to you know, have havethe page grow a bit, but the
content isn't only being used onsocial media.
You can also utilize thiscontent on your website.
You can, if you get thepermission and agree and you
agree to it with them you canutilize the content on your
advertising and that's somethingthat has been a game changer,
(14:42):
because that page started prettymuch at zero and it's almost at
5000.
And it's all been focusedaround that content and for that
budget we were really able togenerate like a face for the
brand.
Now she was, she's more up andcoming and she doesn't have a
big following, but she's beenamazing to work with.
We work with her on scripts andwhat kind of, you know, videos
(15:06):
we want for the seasons and forthe new products we're going to
launch, and we've had an amazingexperience and that's why I do
think it is worth at times togive a chance to someone that
that might be a little smallerif the quality of the content is
good, if the ideas are reallygood and if you're in line with
(15:27):
what you want to do.
And then, when you work withsomeone bigger or you put a
bigger budget behind it, you doit with someone that you know,
you have some experience andtrust with and that you really
understand that their audienceis the right audience for you.
And when that is the case, itcan be a huge home run.
You can sell out your product.
But there is other kinds andother sizes of influencers that
(15:47):
you can also work with.
That can be a great fit.
Sonja Crystal Williams (15:49):
Yeah, now break something down for me.
You mentioned working with inthat particular case with this
influencer for the sunglassescompany, but just in general,
like you mentioned scripts andsitting down and coming up with
ideas, and what is the work thatgoes behind the scenes?
Yeah, is it just hey, I'mpaying an influencer or I'm
sending them product?
(16:09):
Go crazy, do what we need youto do," or is there guidance
associated?
Like what should a brandmanager or a social media
manager be thinking about oncethey're establishing a
relationship with an influencer?
Stephanie Lichtenstein (16:23):
Yeah, there definitely should be
expectations, guidelines, thereshould be an agreement.
So there's actually a lot thatgoes on behind the scenes and
even if you talk to someone andyou send them product and
they're going to be posting,they could--a n influencer,
especially a bigger influencer,could be scheduled out and have
plans and campaigns, you know,for the next month.
So you do actually have to planahead.
(16:45):
You have to manage a lot ofcommunication.
So there are different toolsthat can be used as well to do
that.
We love using Later forscheduling, and they just rolled
out a tool for influencermanagement.
There's Up fluence.
There's Aspire IO for UGC.
We've been using Social Cat.
So what's nice is you don'twant to really be on Instagram
(17:10):
just DMing people.
Okay, that I mean, that's whatwe used to do back in the day,
but that could take so long.
So there are tools now that youcan utilize, and some of them
cost a few hundred dollars.
So they're not, you know, itdepends on what you're looking
for, but they're notoutrageously priced.
But you do want to setguidelines and expectations.
(17:30):
We usually have a few differentthings.
So, first and foremost, we havean influencer welcome kit that
gives them an idea about who weare, because how are they going
to know who they're talkingabout if they don't really
understand the brand that well?
So it gives them like a bit ofour story.
We give them examples of whatwe're looking for.
We don't tell them exact scriptwith the UGC face of the brand,
(17:55):
those were more scripted, buton a general day- to- day
campaign.
We don't give them a scriptbecause we want it to come off
natural and organic.
But we do want guidelines.
We do want to make sure, youknow, that that they're tagging
us.
We want to make sure that theyknow a few key points of what we
might want them to feature.
But we give them generalguidelines and then we give them
(18:18):
examples as well.
We also have, you know, havethem sign an agreement, because
some influencers don't want youto utilize their content in
advertising and you might haveto pay more for that.
If you do, some do let youutilize it in advertising and it
can be really amazing.
So I wouldn't just use thecontent once and just put it on
your page.
There's so many different waysthat you can utilize it.
(18:40):
It can help with conversions onyour website.
So if someone's looking at yourproduct and then they see how
someone's wearing something orsomehow how it fits someone, and
it doesn't look like just acatalog type photo.
It's a real person experiencingyour product like we did
something with a vegan skincareline and really showing the
(19:00):
results and having people youknow utilize the product and
talk about how it makes themfeel, how it makes them feel
great and how it's helped them.
Those are things that, youknow, it's one thing for you to
say something about your ownbrand, and it's something else
for a real day-to-day consumerto talk about how it's helped
them or how much they love it,their experience with it.
(19:22):
So I would definitely recommendutilizing that kind of content
across different places.
So you got to make sure, though, if you have it in advertising,
that it is something that hasbeen agreed to, um.
So basically it's that, andthen it's giving a time frame
for when it's expected to bepublished and then taking it
(19:43):
from there.
But it is a lot of back andforth communication.
Right now, we're doing a fewcampaigns for Fashion Week in
New York, and I have aninfluencer that was going to do
New York but she was traveling,and now she's going to do
Fashion Week Paris.
So you have to--i t's greatbecause you know a lot of these
influencers get to travel andthen you can get amazing content
around the world.
But you do have to have alittle bit of flexibility.
(20:06):
But usually it depends on theproduct, but I will usually give
them like a two to four weekwindow.
For other products it can takeup to two months, like for the
bar stools.
You know, they needed to maybeinstall or finish a product that
they were doing so, but you dowant to have a--y ou might not
give a specific hard date,unless it's like a Black Friday,
(20:27):
Cyber Monday campaign, but youdo want to have like a window
like within by this date, two tofour weeks by this date.
And then you and then, yes, you, you do have to have someone
managing that.
So the communication is constant.
I would say at least once aweek, if not more, just checking
in.
Do they need anything?
Do they have any questionsabout the product?
(20:49):
You know it's a bit of back andforth, but then one thing I
think is really important iskeeping track of the success
getting from them and sharingthose reports with the clients,
but also seeing like who arethose?
Like shining star influencers,even if they're smaller, because
then we look at them and wecontinuously work with them for
(21:10):
campaigns.
So right now we're doingsomething for Fashion Week and
then for fall, but then we'relooking at the holidays, so we
really like to see you know whoout of those partners has been a
success that we want tocontinue to work with, and I
went off on a tangent, but Ihave some clients that even turn
those into brand ambassadors ormore long term partners for
(21:30):
their brand as well.
Sonja Crystal Williams (21:33):
I think you have truly broken it down
and, for the person who soundsoverwhelmed, this is what
Stephanie does.
This is the day- to- day.
This is why you bring an agencyon board to do this stuff.
You can do it yourself, right?
But at the same time, there'sso many pieces to manage.
Stephanie Lichtenstein (21:50):
Yeah, it does.
Actually it sounds like a lot,but it's very exciting and it's
again.
Imagine you having to sit downand create a dozen videos and
instead it does sound like a lot, but with these platforms now
and being able to manage themthere, we're able to sit down
and at once get 15 to 30 UGCcontent creators that we select.
(22:24):
So we get a lot of applications, we go through them all, we
select and make sure thatthey're a good fit, and then
we're able to get the videodelivered in a more timely
manner.
And then we can have all theseuniform campaigns.
Like right now we're launchingone for fall, and then we'll
transition into the holidays.
But we used to only do the day-to- day influencer management
(22:47):
for our clients that we wouldmanage all their social media
pages for, but it's become sopopular that now we do also
offer the UGC campaigns.
Just for someone that isrunning social in-house that
might say, "hey, we need alittle bit of help with this, we
need a little more video, weneed something for the holidays,
and that's a new service thatwe're offering as well.
Sonja Crystal Williams (23:11):
Perfect, so that's a standalone offering
.
That is so awesome.
Stephanie Lichtenstein (23:14):
Yeah, yeah.
There's just such a need for itnow, so we decided to roll it
out this year.
Sonja Crystal Williams (23:19):
Yeah, it is the exploding trend and,
like you said earlier, it goeshand- in- hand with the need for
video content creation and someof these brands that don't have
that person and this is a greatway to get it.
So thank you so much forsharing this amazing breakdown
of influencer marketing, seeingwhere it all fits together,
Stephanie.
I want to end this episode witha couple of questions for our
(23:43):
lightning round.
So first question we talkedabout this a little bit in the
previous episode about how muchyou love to travel and we just
had those conversations ingeneral of the many places that
you've been, let's just saylately, what's been one of your
most memorable travel moments?
Stephanie Lichtenstein (24:02):
Oh, my goodness.
Well, I think we talked aboutthis before.
I've been spending the summersin Montreal now, so I've been
learning how to speak French andI've been having the best time.
Actually, my husband got me, Idon't know if you could see this
little necklace.
This year I actually got myFrench passport, so I've been
(24:30):
just really trying to embrace,you know, more of a French
lifestyle, and it's not thisyear, but next year, I'm having
a big birthday milestone, so I'mgoing to go celebrate it in
Paris, so I'm really excited andplanning that out and looking
forward to that.
(24:51):
But yeah, I, I love the factthat when we work remote, we can
can travel around and I waseven able to see you in Montreal
while you were here for atraining session.
So I've loved that and that'sbeen amazing.
Sonja Crystal Williams (25:04):
That's beautiful.
So you've got memorable moments.
Stephanie Lichtenstein (25:08):
Yeah, this Paris one is like one of
the most memorable ones.
I'm really I'm-- well, actuallymy goddaughter, who's also,
who's turning 16, nd then I'mhaving a milestone that I don't
want to say which one, but she'sgoing to plan and we're going
to meet out there.
So going to plan and we'regoing to meet, we're going to
(25:31):
meet out there.
So she's going to celebrate her16th and I'm going to celebrate
mine with her as well.
biopic on the Lifetime ofStephanie that's going to get
released.
What would your goddaughter,your nieces, nephews, whoever,
grandma, mom, what would peoplesay about you in the biopic?
Oh, my goodness.
Well, talking about mygoddaughter, I do want her to
(25:54):
see like a strong female womanthat's independent, that can
travel, that can work, that canhave that balance.
There was a time, though,especially when I first started
my company, where she would seeme working all the time and she
would say-- she calls me Popo,and she would say, "oh I, this
is Popo, popo's working, popo'sworking.
(26:16):
So I've actually been over thepast couple years, even through
COVID, working on a balance ofbeing that strong, hardworking
woman, but also having thatbalance of being able to travel
and that's something that Istarted doing last year with
Rick and and living life, sohaving having that good balance
(26:37):
and showing her that examplethat you can, you can do it all,
but it's I used to really justfocus just on work, and now I
try to enjoy both things.
So I can work, I can grow mycompany.
I can enjoy that, but I canalso enjoy my family, my friends
, seeing lovely people like youthat come come to visit.
I'm lucky because, when I'vebeen traveling around, my
(27:00):
friends and family have come tovisit us as well, so being able
to spend that time with them isamazing, but I do want to set
that example for her and forjust the women I work with.
Like, I have a team of womenthat are friends, and some of my
friends and moms, and I justwant to show them and empower
(27:21):
them that they can have it alland they can have that lifestyle
freedom of being remote that welove so much too.
Sonja Crystal Williams (27:29):
I hear you, I'm living in that era.
Stephanie Lichtenstein (27:31):
Yeah you've been traveling and I love
that you take your kids withyou and I don't see everyone do
that and I just love seeing that.
I'm so happy that you do that.
Sonja Crystal Williams (27:42):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
All right, Stephanie.
Where can people find moreinformation about the services
you offer?
Stephanie Lichtenstein (27:50):
So my company is called Micromedia
Marketing.
We just turned 15 years old acouple of months ago, but in
that milestone we also launchedmicrosocialcontent.
com, and the reason we did thatis because we manage the day-
to- day, but there's so manybrands that their teams need
help.
Their teams need support.
So now we have those serviceswhere you can get your own UGC
(28:13):
video content and we can workwith your internal team and I
did, specifically for thispodcast, I came up with some
great tips to share for your in-house teams.
So if you go tomicroocialcontent.
com, there's a free ebook at thetop as well.
If they wanna get some feedbackand some tips, so that's up
(28:34):
there too.
So, yeah, check those out.
And if you want me to reviewyour brand on social media, you
can reach out at social@micromediamarketing.
com.
Sonja Crystal Williams (28:46):
All right, awesome, Stephanie.
Thanks so much for being on theshow again.
Until then, everyone, have agood one.
Bye, thank you, bye.
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