September 25, 2024 • 28 mins
This week on the 10 Minute Marketing podcast, Sonja Crystal Williams is joined by systems and scaling strategist Diane Lam to break down what constitutes an effective business system, from processes and technology to automation and team roles.
As you listen to this episode, ask yourself: Is there untapped potential within my business operations that could help my business grow faster and more efficiently?
Diane explains the pitfalls of hiring staff without clear processes in place, business operations bottlenecks, and technology mishaps when businesses aren't set up to scale properly. She also shares her approach to conducting a comprehensive systems assessment to identify and close gaps and some business management and communication tools that can help streamline your operations efficiently and effectively.
After the episode, listeners are also invited to check out Diane's "What to Pay Your VA" Rate Guide, a 6 min video on the rates for the six most common types of VAs Diane has come across!
About Diane Lam
Diane Lam is a Systems + Scaling Strategist and she is on a mission to make systems expertise super accessible to online coaches, consultants and done-for-you service providers so they can scale faster and have the freedom and flexibility to do what they love in their business (and outside of it).
You can see her expertise featured in Forbes, Bloomberg, Business Insider, USA Today, Thrive Global, Authority Magazine, Prevention Magazine and more.
Learn more about Diane Lam Co. and follow her on Instagram.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sonja Crystal Williams (00:05):
Hi everybody, Welcome to today's
episode of 10 Minute Marketing.
I'm your host, Sona CrystalWilliams.
Well, joining me.
Today.
I have Diane Lam, and Diane isa systems and scaling strategist
who works a lot with onlinecoaches, consultants,
done-for-you service providers,and she specializes in helping
(00:28):
them scale faster so that theyhave the freedom and flexibility
to really do what they love intheir business and outside of it
.
Diane, thank you so much forbeing here.
Oh my God, I'm so happy to behere.
Diane Lam (00:40):
I'm super excited to just have this chat with you and
be able to share some thingsthat might help people be able
to grow and scale theirbusinesses faster.
Sonja Crystal Williams (00:47):
Yes.
So I mean, for a lot ofbusinesses, this is the question
yeah, how do I get to a spacewhere I'm ready to scale?
And I wanted you to come heretoday because I think you do
something very special and veryunique that a lot of people will
overlook, which is how do we,before we get to scale, how do
we get the systems down?
So I want to ask you todescribe when the word systems
(01:10):
is used.
That could mean a lot of thingsto many people.
What does it mean when you'rehelping businesses with their
systems?
Diane Lam (01:17):
Yeah, this is such a good question because I feel
like there is a lot of mis-- notmaybe misinformation, but lack
of context around systems in theonline space.
So in systems right now, we talkabout them a lot in terms of
like one piece, like it's an SOP, or it's a technology, like a
CRM or convert kit or a platformof some sort, or maybe it's
just like oh, you need a system,higher VA or OBM.
(01:39):
Right, all components of yoursystems are all technically
right, but your system, the onethat actually gives you the
freedom and flexibility that Ithink most of us really crave,
is all of those things.
It's the combination of theprocess.
It's a combination of thetechnology that you use to make
that process smooth andorganized, and the automations
that streamline it, help it gofaster, and the team members to
(02:01):
fill in the gaps, because youcannot automate everything right
.
So when we're talking aboutsystems, at least in my world,
we're talking about thecombination of all of those
things, customized to yourbusiness, so that you actually
get the freedom and flexibilitythat you want, in whatever shape
and form it takes.
Sonja Crystal Williams (02:21):
Wow, no, that's, that's huge.
So give me a picture.
You come in and you're helpingwho.
Who is the person that you'retypically speaking to when it's
time to do like a systemsoverhaul?
Diane Lam (02:31):
Yeah, so I usually am working with coaches who are
solo, who've grown really fast.
Maybe they have a skeleton teamor one VA or an OBM with them.
I'm working with done-for-youservice providers like marketing
strategists, website designers,brand strategists, who are also
kind of in that same boat,structurally.
They're like well, I've had VAsor contractors, I have an OBM,
but nothing is quite gelling.
(02:53):
It doesn't feel easier in thebusiness.
I recorded 1,000 Loom videosand it's not easier.
Nothing is happening.
So those are usually the peoplewho are coming to me.
I work a lot with, like smallagency owners who are trying to
build their teams and theiragency models and they're like
uh, I hired all the people butlike, I'm still the, I'm still
the manager of everything, I'mthe bottleneck for everything.
(03:15):
Right, and that's really wherewe're starting the process of
your systems, because chancesare, you probably have done a
few things to put them in place,but you're probably missing
some of the components that Italk about or they are not
aligned with each other.
It's like I liken it to likebaking a cake right, you want to
moisturize, you got to have theright ingredients.
You want to have a flourlesscake versus, like, a souffle
(03:37):
style cake.
You need different things toachieve that outcome, and the
same is with your business andyour systems.
You need different sets ofsystems.
You need different sets oftechnology and automations, in
varying amounts, to get theoutcomes that you want, to run
the business the way that youwant.
Sonja Crystal Williams (03:52):
Got it, got it, so gosh.
This leads into like so manydirections, because the
questions are just like oh mygosh, what do you do here and
what do you do there?
In this scenario, in thatscenario, let's start out with
just like one of the things Iknow you specialize in.
When I was peeking around yourwebsite and just kind of from
our past conversations, as youcome in and do a systems
assessment, when you peek backbehind the curtain, right and
(04:17):
kind of like the Wizard of Oz,right, there's the wizard back
there controlling everythingwhich is what's kind of
happening with these systems and, to your point, sometimes they
gel and sometimes they don't.
And I've come across a lot ofbusiness owners who say exactly
what you said.
I hired a lot of people, butthey are still kind of CEO slash
, coo, managing a lot ofdifferent parts.
(04:39):
When you peek behind thecurtain, what is it through your
eyes that you see?
Is it they're using too manydifferent types of software?
Is it something in theexecution that their people
should be doing Like?
What does that look like to you?
Diane Lam (04:56):
I'd say, like a majority of the time there is a
lack of process, of actualresults driven process, right.
So a lot of times they'veleaned on oh well, if I just get
the right CRM or if I get theright email marketing platform
that will do everything.
So they lean heavily on thetechnology component without
really having a lot of clarityas to like well, how do I
(05:18):
actually want to do my marketing?
Sonja Crystal Williams (05:20):
so that.
Diane Lam (05:20):
I can pick the software that will support that
process.
Or they've gone on the otherside of things, like, oh, I
hired all the people, I hired asocial media manager, I hired a
you know, a content writer, Ihired someone to do my graphics,
a VA to do the posting, allthose things.
But again, their process islacking, right?
There isn't a lot of clarity interms of, like, well, are you
getting the results that youwant?
(05:41):
Are you marketing the way thatyou want?
Are you marketing the way thatyou want?
Are you or are you just?
Did you just record a loomvideo and recreate a process
that keeps you doing themarketing, feeding the machine
constantly, right?
So a lot of times, that's what Isee as the primary drivers that
, like you, lean too heavilyinto a few different areas, and
a lot of times, the missingpiece is actually the clear
(06:02):
process that gives you theresults that you want, right?
I don't think a lot of peopletalk about systems in this way.
When I'm thinking about asystem, I was like it needs to
give me a good result, I cannotlike what am I doing now and
just write down the steps,because that's not actually be
how I want to work If I'm doingall the marketing.
I don't want to do that Likedocument a system that then
recreates me doing all themarketing myself.
(06:23):
So really looking at it fromthe end point of like, is this
actually getting me the resultthat I want?
And then I get the tech that'sactually going to serve me the
best and then I can pick the VAsor the automations or whatever
it is, and that's usually themissing component is that we
don't have enough process or theprocess isn't giving us the
result that we want.
Sonja Crystal Williams (06:43):
Okay, one of the other things you
brought up was automation, andthen automation can go in a few
different directions, becausethere's software automation and
nowadays, with nearly any toolthat even does automation,
there's an AI component.
Nowadays, like, just what areyour thoughts around why, like,
(07:03):
automation alone does or doesn'tdo it for businesses that want
to have strong systems in place?
Diane Lam (07:10):
I will say that automation is really powerful to
a certain extent, but toautomate fully is impossible,
right?
Like, even big businesses likeFacebook that has billions of
dollars to spend on technology,cannot automate fully.
And it's just like, well, a lotof the tools that we're buying,
too like, we have to use out ofthe box.
We're not app developers.
I'm not going to create my ownbot to like do the thing exactly
(07:33):
how I want it to be automated.
So we're also limited by whatautomations are available in the
tools that we're using, rightLike, I sign up for
ActiveCampaign, I'm restrictedto the automation that
ActiveCampaign has allowed me touse within them, right?
So I think that there is a lotof power in automation.
We have to know that automationis literally for things that
can be standardized, that arerepeated over and over again,
(07:55):
and there are not any changes.
The second that you start tochange or customize things, your
automation capability starts todegrade.
Yeah, you can customize a fewthings within certain bounds,
but the more custom it is, theless likely that you're going to
be able to automate it, right?
So that's just something toreally keep in mind.
And like, the more that youwant to change or like, rapidly
iterate.
You know, or, like I have, I'veseen someone who had like a
(08:16):
massive it was like a 60 stepzap where, like this happens, or
this happens when you havethose many decision-making
levels.
It's really hard to automatethose kinds of things too
because, yeah, the tools getconfused when you're like, okay,
I want you to want to fire inthis scenario and this scenario,
but what about this scenariowhen, like, a client responds to
an email that we then sent them, the automation doesn't look
for that email or that maybethey sent you.
(08:39):
Maybe you have a salesautomation right, like, oh, I'm
following up, following up,following up on a proposal, but
then, like that client repliedand said I'm going on vacation
for two weeks, like I'll getback to you, then the automation
doesn't know to look for that.
So that's where you start tosee breakdowns in automation,
especially when they get reallylong and complex or when they
(09:00):
have a lot of customization inthem.
So, yes, you can do a lot withautomation to take care of some
of those repetitive day-to-daytasks that maybe fall through
the cracks a little bit, but Iwouldn't say that it's something
that will like revolutionizeyour business, because a lot of
stuff you just cannot automate.
Sonja Crystal Williams (09:14):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, and
so that could be for a businessor a coach who is already in a
place where they have somesystems in place.
It's keeping that in mind right, that the automation is there
and it can support you, but it'snot going to do everything for
you.
It doesn't replace humaninteraction.
(09:36):
So, on the human side, whowould be or and it could be
person and or people?
But what kind of role steps in?
So let's say I am a coach orconsultant, I have built this
amazing course.
Let's just say that I'm sellingand I have some systems in
(09:59):
place that help get peoplethrough my funnel.
They buy the course and thenthey start getting emails and
then maybe they're getting someupsells and things like that.
And it has become overwhelmingfor me when I start to turn it
over, who am I looking for toturn this job?
And that's like one piece, oneof the systems, right, but there
(10:20):
might be many others behind thescenes.
The CRM system Right, but theremight be many others behind the
scenes.
The CRM system, those types ofthings you mentioned.
Diane Lam (10:31):
Who do I turn that over to?
Or and or people and or person.
I think in this particularscenario I would probably look
for like a tech VA.
Or you could like titles.
Ok, honestly, like let's justtake a step back.
Like titles mean nothing in theonline space.
Anyone can call themselvesanything they want.
It's more important that youreally look at what services
they're offering to make surethey're a match for what you
need.
So the most like general thing Iwould look for is like a tech
(10:52):
VA, because if you have a funnelbased system right, like you're
doing, you're doing the course.
It's a digital product.
You have the funnel set up.
Maybe you have multiple funnelsset up and like if you have
upsells, downsells, tripwires,things like that, the funnel has
gotten very complex.
You need someone who can reallymanage the technology side of
those things.
I think the biggest part abouttechnology and automation that
(11:15):
people also kind of forget islike it requires maintenance,
like yes, you can set it andforget it, but like softwares
update themselves and when thosethings update, sometimes they
get broken.
When your offer changes, youneed to make those updates
across the board and you need toknow where specifically to make
those updates.
So I would say they probablyneed someone who is a tech
focused, either virtualassistant they might even call
themselves an OBM someone whohas a very tech focused
(11:37):
background in the softwares thatyou're using in your funnel,
because not all tech VAs, again,are created equal.
Some of them focus onparticular software.
So if you hire a tech VA thatspecializes in like go high
level but you're using likeactive campaign, that's not
going to work either, right.
So you find someone who's reallyspecific to the technology that
(11:57):
you're using and in this caseI'd probably say that they might
want to consider as a secondlayer someone who can support
them in terms of the writingelements, because in a funnel
like this, in a digital product,a lot of it comes down to your
words and your messaging and thecontent that's being
distributed within the funnelLike that's, 50% of your funnel
is the actual words that arebeing sent out.
(12:19):
So if those pieces are notreally really strong or
something that you don't want tocontinuously create or don't
have the bandwidth to createwhich I see with a lot of
business owners, that's.
The next step is like we needsomeone to manage the tech.
We need someone to manage thecontent that are in the
messaging that is going out inthat funnel as well, to
continuously feed it and get youout of the day to day.
Sonja Crystal Williams (12:37):
That's huge Gosh.
You hit on so many great points.
So another thing too you'veused some terms of different
types of tools that people canuse, and I want to break some of
those down like as options,because some people know what
these tools are and some peopleare like what is that?
Or I heard of it.
I'm going to raise my hand onone of them, Dubsado.
(12:58):
I have no idea what Dubsadoreally is or what it does, but I
hear a lot about that one.
I think there's another one,Boxer, or something that might
start with a V.
You brought up ActiveCampaign.
Help everyone understand, likeare these a one size fit all
(13:18):
type of tool that's helping youmanage different pieces of those
systems, or just what are someof these tools that people have
access to check out?
Diane Lam (13:26):
Yeah, okay, so let's start with some of the things
that you mentioned.
Right?
So Dubsado I think they'veshifted a little bit of how they
market themselves.
They used to call themselves aCRM.
They're not really a CRM in atraditional sense.
Right?
So Dubsado is a businessmanagement tool.
It lets you do like your verylight lead tracking through,
like your sales process.
It lets you do proposal incontracts, like you know your
(13:49):
outbound sales stuff.
Like once you've gottensomebody on a sales call they've
said, yes, you need to do, likea contract, some sort of
proposal.
You can do that and then youcan get it very seamlessly to
invoice, right, like that'sreally the power that it has.
It has some other featuresaround, like a client portal and
things like, but they're all.
I don't think that they're veryusable when we think about,
like, what is a client portal?
How is a client going tointeract with it?
(14:10):
For the most part, the power isreally in that contract
proposal, invoice, streamlining,setup, right.
Like so if you were to sell thesame products, the same packages
, and it doesn't change a lot,once you start to vary a lot of
stuff, the Dubsado starts tobreak down a little bit.
Their automation capabilitiesare not built for that.
(14:32):
So if you are looking to reallystreamline your sales process,
I'd say Dubsado is a goodbusiness management tool for
that and it really depends on,like, what you're selling.
So if you don't sell that kindof thing, you probably, if you
sell digital products andcourses, you don't need Zubsado.
But if you do contracts andproposals and things like that,
zubsado is a good tool for that.
Voxer is a communication tool.
(14:52):
It's like a walkie talkie.
So if I want to like chat backand forth with you and send some
voice notes back and forth,voxer is a good tool for that.
I will say the limitations arethat it gets really messy.
If you have more than oneperson in a chat with you or you
want to organize yourconversation, it's very, very
hard to do that Like I would notdo it in Voxer.
(15:13):
I do not recommend for like abig group chat where you
actually like want to eithersave or remember to go back to
something, or you want to talkabout specific topics and be
able to organize it.
Not great, but I think you wantto have a conversation back
forth, like consistently, likewith a lot of one-on-one coaches
, like they love using that, orif you're working directly with
(15:33):
a client as a consultant, andthey just want to be able to ask
you questions and you respondperfect.
But anything bigger than that Ithink it's really it gets very
messy very quickly.
So those are kind of the firsttools that you, uh, that you,
you, you put out there to askquestions around Um.
And then I know I've mentionedsome different variations of
tools through this conversationas well and I will say that I
(15:55):
actually don't care about thesoftware.
Like I don't care what tool youuse.
Um, it could be high tech or lowtech, there's a lot of options
out there and, um, some of thethings that I mentioned are like
it really ties back to yourprocess.
What are you actually trying todo?
What are you trying to achieve?
Right, because that will helpyou pick the tech.
So that's why I'm always veryprocess driven process first
(16:16):
before anything, because I don'tknow what I'm doing, it's
really hard for me to pick thetech that's going to help me
stay organized and work in thatprocess and if I don't have the
tech, I also can't automateright.
So they're all kind of tiedtogether and they flow into each
other and it really dependswhat you are doing within your
business what technology is fitfor you, but I will say that
(16:37):
there's probably some prettycore tech that I'll say pretty
much every online business needs.
You generally will need somesort of project and task
management tool to keep track ofall of your work.
Like I was literally on thephone with someone earlier this
week and they like showed metheir pile of sticky notes and
then they like knocked over aglass of water.
Well, that's exactly why itneeds to be somewhere else.
(16:59):
It puts you up.
If you want to delegate andwork with virtual assistants or
anything like that, then it'ssomewhere where they could
actually have access to it aswell.
Cloud storage is also anotherpiece where, like well, if
you're creating materials forclients, like deliverables, that
has to go somewhere and itcan't just all go to your
downloads folder, so it's likewhere you're like searching
(17:20):
around for it, so putting itsomewhere where it can be
organized per client and andlike you can create templates,
and things like that are goingto be really important, like
literally every business.
Do that, um, and I will say alsoemail marketing software.
Um, because, like, yes, Ipersonally believe in email
marketing, but also, like, it'sprobably like fact-based, like
statistics wise, one of theplaces that people are still
(17:42):
actually selling the most andyou're not like at the whim of,
like, well, you know, you knowInstagram decided to do this
today with the algorithm, or,you know, tiktok's getting
banned or whatever it is.
So email marketing, I think, isone of the key tools that I
always recommend that a businessowner have, and I can't think
of a single business thatdoesn't need or shouldn't have
(18:03):
an email marketing platform.
But more than that, it can alsodouble as a platform for you to
be able to automate youronboarding and offboarding
processes, to be able to, like,work, manage your clients and
kind of see what they'vepurchased, if there are courses.
It can be like a mini CRM ifyou want it to be, if that's
what you need, and so I thinkthere's a lot of power there
because you can use it formultiple things and it also
(18:25):
drives your marketing engine.
So I will always say that, like, you will always need some sort
of email marketing platformwithin your business.
I think those are probably mytop three.
I mean, like taking money in apayment platform is kind of a
given, but those are kind of mytop three, like everyone needs.
Sonja Crystal Williams (18:41):
Yeah, I mean, though, I love those,
those are really great nonnegotiables.
And then back to your pointabout just not caring about the
software but caring about theprocess and just people needing
to remember, like, what's thebig result, because, ultimately,
like you're helping people findthat freedom, and so to find
that freedom, we got to attachthings that help them get there,
(19:03):
which just absolutely makes somuch sense, wow.
Which just absolutely makes somuch sense, wow.
So I guess I'll end just kindof on one final question, just
kind of as we wrap up ourconversation in general, which
is what?
What?
Give me an example of like asuccess story where you're like
this was like picture perfect,ideal, of like how someone was
(19:27):
able to get their systems inplace and get to that place
where they had that freedom theywanted.
Diane Lam (19:32):
Yeah, of course.
So, like I've had a lot ofclients who were wanting to
scale to agencies, right, likethey were done for you.
They wanted to build a biggerteam, they wanted to be able to
pitch bigger clients, and one ofthem actually came to me.
They were a team and they'relike we've done some of the
things.
Like we recorded a bunch ofLoom videos, we have some SOPs.
Like we hired like a few VAs tohelp us with the admin tasks,
(19:53):
but like I don't know, it's justnot working.
Like it doesn't feel easier.
Like I'm still working a lot.
Like my partner is working allthe time.
Like like this is we're workingmore than we work in corporate
and it seems like we're doingthe right things right, like so
we don't know what's wrong.
We need someone to just tell us.
We cannot like try and figureit out anymore.
So with them, I really wentthrough an assessment period
(20:14):
where we were like, okay, well,what is what do you?
What is the lay of the landhere?
What's really the big gaps?
And looking at that, I was like, oh well, you have tons of SOPs
but they don't actually producethe results that you want.
So this is not how you market.
Like this is not what you'redoing to actually generate your
leads, so that is not usable inthat way at all.
(20:36):
A lot of the work was stillbeing done between, like a share
drive, just between the twopartners.
It was like, well, if you havethese VAs, this is why it's
taking you so long to prepare,like to get them to get work.
You're not using them becauseyou're saying, oh, I can just do
it faster because you can't getto the work.
They cannot get to the work, soyou need to move off of the
share drive and put it somewherewhere the vas also have access.
And also the fact of the matteris you hired a bunch of general
(20:58):
vas to help you when you'rereally bogged down in the
delivery of all of your work.
I would probably refocus myhiring or my team structure to
for people to help you reallydeliver these work your clients.
And they also had some big gapswithin, like, their sales system
where they're like, yeah, wewant to pitch bigger corporate
(21:19):
clients, but like we don't knowwhat to use and like I mean we
send this Google proposal, likewe make it in Google Docs, and
they're like you know, likewould you be cool if you got
this and you know we were goingto charge you, we wanted to
double.
They wanted to double theirpricing, like 25, 30 K, like
like.
Well, I mean, it depends onyour client, right?
You're telling me now that youare, that you probably you're
(21:39):
telling me that you probably,they probably, were not going to
receive this.
Very well, cause you're, weshould watch you about the
google doc already, right?
So, knowing those things, wewent through and I recommended
like a new sales process, onethat included a more high-tech
um proposaling software,something that would do the
reminders for them.
That was kind of in play, wherethey had a catalog of items
they could just like.
(22:00):
Once it was built, what theyneeded, it did the reminders for
them.
It pushed them to the salesplatform when it was done, like
all their invoicing within there.
Once that was built, they felt alot better about pitching
bigger clients.
They reorg their team.
They hired a bunch more ofstrategists and writers to help
them because they were a writingagency.
(22:21):
They did a lot of writing,content creation, messaging,
work, things like that for a lot, of, I think, large and
mid-sized businesses and theyreally wanted to move to those
big corporations that have bignames.
So that really helped ease upthe delivery and they went from
like I mean, they were workinglike sometimes 60, 70 hours a
week and they're like, oh my God, I was like the first parent in
(22:41):
the school pickup line.
I've never been that way, soreally being able to cut their
workload in half.
And we worked together for threemonths and then we extended it
for one month just to wrapthings up and like give them
some more like consultingsupport and they were on their
own for two months.
After six months later theywere like they sent me a note.
It was like, oh my god, we justclosed and we just pitched and
(23:02):
won our first corporate clientand into the six-figure
engagement.
But where it was like, oh, nowwe are walking our talk, now
like we feel really good aboutshowing quadrupled our pricing
and like or like, yeah, we canhandle it Right.
You show up a different waywhen you know like my business
can back me up when I say thatthis service is worth, you know,
(23:25):
a hundred K.
It is worth it and it's we havethe process and the journey
that we're going to take you on.
That matches that like.
That's really, really powerful.
So that was like one of thebest success stories I've ever
had was like wow, you guysreally took this to heart.
Sonja Crystal Williams (23:38):
You said you spent four months with them
and they adapted it.
And well, really threeinitially.
I mean that's just really fastadaption on their part.
And then them being willing totake your guidance and act on it
.
And I've been there.
Proposals are so time consuming, so to have something in place
that really let them whipthrough it, I mean that's huge.
Diane Lam (23:57):
So yeah, you have to build a lot and we put a lot
into the build mode right, likein that framework, we built a
lot of things.
We brought in a lot of my ownteam members to like help,
support and build out thefoundation.
But it was all about theplanning right.
They had no idea what waspossible.
You know it usually takes alittle bit longer for owners to
(24:18):
like really integrate all ofthis stuff, but they're like no,
we're ready, like I trust I'mgoing to do the thing.
I'm like okay, like I love it.
I'm so proud of you guys.
I'm super excited to see whereyou go next.
Sonja Crystal Williams (24:27):
Wow, very cool.
Thank you for sharing, diane.
Wow, I could go on with morequestions because, wow, there's
just such a great conversationand systems need it so much and
really running our businessesday to day and helping us get
where we want to be.
I want to end our conversationwith a couple of quick lightning
round questions.
And first question I want toask you.
(24:51):
So you've been on the agencyside of things, you're now
helping businesses create thesesystems and scale, but if you
weren't doing any of thosethings let's say we were in an
alternate universe what wouldDiane somewhere else be doing?
Diane Lam (25:08):
You know, I think that's actually a good question
In an alternate universe.
If I would if I'd never hadthis background, I'd probably be
a teacher teacher, not a mathteacher, because I'm not good at
(25:36):
math.
Teacher of I think that that'swhat I would be doing.
Sonja Crystal Williams (25:39):
Very cool.
Second question is just about,like if you the you today, let's
just say who has all thisamazing knowledge in how to run
a business was talking to youwhen you first were starting,
what would the you of today sayto you of the past?
Diane Lam (26:01):
I would tell my past self to not just chase the money
, to do what actually feels goodand aligned and that you
actually want to do good andaligned and that you actually
want to do, because I spent alot of my business years chasing
the money and I burned outevery single time.
Right, I can do a lot of thingsand I can push it, I can hustle
(26:22):
, I can grind and I can make alot of money, but I ultimately
ended up with businesses Ididn't like right and that's
what kind of led me to like.
I'm on business iterationnumber five today, because if
you want to be sustainable, youhave to do something that you
feel good about, that you feelaligned with, that you really
want to do.
And that's the lesson I'mlearning now, some lessons I
like to learn the hard way.
Sonja Crystal Williams (26:41):
Yeah, all right.
Well, we'll end on that note.
Diane, you have a free resourcethat everyone can get a hold of
.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that resource?
Diane Lam (26:50):
Yeah.
So I think that one of thefirst places I see a lot of
business owners go is like theywant to hire support and it
makes sense right To get somelift in your day to day.
They want to hire a virtualassistant, maybe an OPM.
So I put together a what to payyour VA rates guide because I
think like well, can I afford?
It is often a big question.
So every year I update thisguide based off of what I see
(27:12):
from people who apply in mybusiness, based off of, like you
know, a lot of the searchesthat my clients are bringing in,
like you know, candidatesthey're seeing, and then also
like what I'm seeing, like aspeople advertise their services.
So this isn't just like I pulledthe numbers out of the air, but
it is a good reference pointfor the top six most common
types of VAs that I've seen.
You know what is the pay rangethat you can expect.
(27:35):
So like you can kind of knowwithin your budget, like kind of
where you're landing.
And I do break it down betweenUS based and overseas based so
that you also have thatreference.
And I just think it's reallyhelpful for anyone who's
considering hiring or is likenervous about making their first
hire.
It's a good resource to knowlike, hey, where's my budget?
Am I in the right range?
Is this like too far out ofleft field?
(27:55):
And to give you to literallylevel set so you can go into the
hiring process with someconfidence that you're like,
yeah, I can do this and it'sgoing to work for me.
Sonja Crystal Williams (28:02):
Wow, that is a super useful resource
and if anyone wants to grab it,go ahead and take a look at our
description.
We'll have a link posted therewhere you can get access to it,
as well as Diane's social medialinks, so you can get in touch
with her and reach out.
If you want to chat with herone-on-one, all right.
Well, thank you so mucheveryone for listening today.
Thank you so much, diane, forbeing here.
(28:23):
Until next time, everyone, bye,bye.
Hi everybody, Welcome to today's
episode of 10 Minute Marketing.
I'm your host, Sona CrystalWilliams.
Well, joining me.
Today.
I have Diane Lam, and Diane isa systems and scaling strategist
who works a lot with onlinecoaches, consultants,
done-for-you service providers,and she specializes in helping
(00:28):
them scale faster so that theyhave the freedom and flexibility
to really do what they love intheir business and outside of it
.
Diane, thank you so much forbeing here.
Oh my God, I'm so happy to behere.
Diane Lam (00:40):
I'm super excited to just have this chat with you and
be able to share some thingsthat might help people be able
to grow and scale theirbusinesses faster.
Sonja Crystal Williams (00:47):
Yes.
So I mean, for a lot ofbusinesses, this is the question
yeah, how do I get to a spacewhere I'm ready to scale?
And I wanted you to come heretoday because I think you do
something very special and veryunique that a lot of people will
overlook, which is how do we,before we get to scale, how do
we get the systems down?
So I want to ask you todescribe when the word systems
(01:10):
is used.
That could mean a lot of thingsto many people.
What does it mean when you'rehelping businesses with their
systems?
Diane Lam (01:17):
Yeah, this is such a good question because I feel
like there is a lot of mis-- notmaybe misinformation, but lack
of context around systems in theonline space.
So in systems right now, we talkabout them a lot in terms of
like one piece, like it's an SOP, or it's a technology, like a
CRM or convert kit or a platformof some sort, or maybe it's
just like oh, you need a system,higher VA or OBM.
(01:39):
Right, all components of yoursystems are all technically
right, but your system, the onethat actually gives you the
freedom and flexibility that Ithink most of us really crave,
is all of those things.
It's the combination of theprocess.
It's a combination of thetechnology that you use to make
that process smooth andorganized, and the automations
that streamline it, help it gofaster, and the team members to
(02:01):
fill in the gaps, because youcannot automate everything right
.
So when we're talking aboutsystems, at least in my world,
we're talking about thecombination of all of those
things, customized to yourbusiness, so that you actually
get the freedom and flexibilitythat you want, in whatever shape
and form it takes.
Sonja Crystal Williams (02:21):
Wow, no, that's, that's huge.
So give me a picture.
You come in and you're helpingwho.
Who is the person that you'retypically speaking to when it's
time to do like a systemsoverhaul?
Diane Lam (02:31):
Yeah, so I usually am working with coaches who are
solo, who've grown really fast.
Maybe they have a skeleton teamor one VA or an OBM with them.
I'm working with done-for-youservice providers like marketing
strategists, website designers,brand strategists, who are also
kind of in that same boat,structurally.
They're like well, I've had VAsor contractors, I have an OBM,
but nothing is quite gelling.
(02:53):
It doesn't feel easier in thebusiness.
I recorded 1,000 Loom videosand it's not easier.
Nothing is happening.
So those are usually the peoplewho are coming to me.
I work a lot with, like smallagency owners who are trying to
build their teams and theiragency models and they're like
uh, I hired all the people butlike, I'm still the, I'm still
the manager of everything, I'mthe bottleneck for everything.
(03:15):
Right, and that's really wherewe're starting the process of
your systems, because chancesare, you probably have done a
few things to put them in place,but you're probably missing
some of the components that Italk about or they are not
aligned with each other.
It's like I liken it to likebaking a cake right, you want to
moisturize, you got to have theright ingredients.
You want to have a flourlesscake versus, like, a souffle
(03:37):
style cake.
You need different things toachieve that outcome, and the
same is with your business andyour systems.
You need different sets ofsystems.
You need different sets oftechnology and automations, in
varying amounts, to get theoutcomes that you want, to run
the business the way that youwant.
Sonja Crystal Williams (03:52):
Got it, got it, so gosh.
This leads into like so manydirections, because the
questions are just like oh mygosh, what do you do here and
what do you do there?
In this scenario, in thatscenario, let's start out with
just like one of the things Iknow you specialize in.
When I was peeking around yourwebsite and just kind of from
our past conversations, as youcome in and do a systems
assessment, when you peek backbehind the curtain, right and
(04:17):
kind of like the Wizard of Oz,right, there's the wizard back
there controlling everythingwhich is what's kind of
happening with these systems and, to your point, sometimes they
gel and sometimes they don't.
And I've come across a lot ofbusiness owners who say exactly
what you said.
I hired a lot of people, butthey are still kind of CEO slash
, coo, managing a lot ofdifferent parts.
(04:39):
When you peek behind thecurtain, what is it through your
eyes that you see?
Is it they're using too manydifferent types of software?
Is it something in theexecution that their people
should be doing Like?
What does that look like to you?
Diane Lam (04:56):
I'd say, like a majority of the time there is a
lack of process, of actualresults driven process, right.
So a lot of times they'veleaned on oh well, if I just get
the right CRM or if I get theright email marketing platform
that will do everything.
So they lean heavily on thetechnology component without
really having a lot of clarityas to like well, how do I
(05:18):
actually want to do my marketing?
Sonja Crystal Williams (05:20):
so that.
Diane Lam (05:20):
I can pick the software that will support that
process.
Or they've gone on the otherside of things, like, oh, I
hired all the people, I hired asocial media manager, I hired a
you know, a content writer, Ihired someone to do my graphics,
a VA to do the posting, allthose things.
But again, their process islacking, right?
There isn't a lot of clarity interms of, like, well, are you
getting the results that youwant?
(05:41):
Are you marketing the way thatyou want?
Are you marketing the way thatyou want?
Are you or are you just?
Did you just record a loomvideo and recreate a process
that keeps you doing themarketing, feeding the machine
constantly, right?
So a lot of times, that's what Isee as the primary drivers that
, like you, lean too heavilyinto a few different areas, and
a lot of times, the missingpiece is actually the clear
(06:02):
process that gives you theresults that you want, right?
I don't think a lot of peopletalk about systems in this way.
When I'm thinking about asystem, I was like it needs to
give me a good result, I cannotlike what am I doing now and
just write down the steps,because that's not actually be
how I want to work If I'm doingall the marketing.
I don't want to do that Likedocument a system that then
recreates me doing all themarketing myself.
(06:23):
So really looking at it fromthe end point of like, is this
actually getting me the resultthat I want?
And then I get the tech that'sactually going to serve me the
best and then I can pick the VAsor the automations or whatever
it is, and that's usually themissing component is that we
don't have enough process or theprocess isn't giving us the
result that we want.
Sonja Crystal Williams (06:43):
Okay, one of the other things you
brought up was automation, andthen automation can go in a few
different directions, becausethere's software automation and
nowadays, with nearly any toolthat even does automation,
there's an AI component.
Nowadays, like, just what areyour thoughts around why, like,
(07:03):
automation alone does or doesn'tdo it for businesses that want
to have strong systems in place?
Diane Lam (07:10):
I will say that automation is really powerful to
a certain extent, but toautomate fully is impossible,
right?
Like, even big businesses likeFacebook that has billions of
dollars to spend on technology,cannot automate fully.
And it's just like, well, a lotof the tools that we're buying,
too like, we have to use out ofthe box.
We're not app developers.
I'm not going to create my ownbot to like do the thing exactly
(07:33):
how I want it to be automated.
So we're also limited by whatautomations are available in the
tools that we're using, rightLike, I sign up for
ActiveCampaign, I'm restrictedto the automation that
ActiveCampaign has allowed me touse within them, right?
So I think that there is a lotof power in automation.
We have to know that automationis literally for things that
can be standardized, that arerepeated over and over again,
(07:55):
and there are not any changes.
The second that you start tochange or customize things, your
automation capability starts todegrade.
Yeah, you can customize a fewthings within certain bounds,
but the more custom it is, theless likely that you're going to
be able to automate it, right?
So that's just something toreally keep in mind.
And like, the more that youwant to change or like, rapidly
iterate.
You know, or, like I have, I'veseen someone who had like a
(08:16):
massive it was like a 60 stepzap where, like this happens, or
this happens when you havethose many decision-making
levels.
It's really hard to automatethose kinds of things too
because, yeah, the tools getconfused when you're like, okay,
I want you to want to fire inthis scenario and this scenario,
but what about this scenariowhen, like, a client responds to
an email that we then sent them, the automation doesn't look
for that email or that maybethey sent you.
(08:39):
Maybe you have a salesautomation right, like, oh, I'm
following up, following up,following up on a proposal, but
then, like that client repliedand said I'm going on vacation
for two weeks, like I'll getback to you, then the automation
doesn't know to look for that.
So that's where you start tosee breakdowns in automation,
especially when they get reallylong and complex or when they
(09:00):
have a lot of customization inthem.
So, yes, you can do a lot withautomation to take care of some
of those repetitive day-to-daytasks that maybe fall through
the cracks a little bit, but Iwouldn't say that it's something
that will like revolutionizeyour business, because a lot of
stuff you just cannot automate.
Sonja Crystal Williams (09:14):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, and
so that could be for a businessor a coach who is already in a
place where they have somesystems in place.
It's keeping that in mind right, that the automation is there
and it can support you, but it'snot going to do everything for
you.
It doesn't replace humaninteraction.
(09:36):
So, on the human side, whowould be or and it could be
person and or people?
But what kind of role steps in?
So let's say I am a coach orconsultant, I have built this
amazing course.
Let's just say that I'm sellingand I have some systems in
(09:59):
place that help get peoplethrough my funnel.
They buy the course and thenthey start getting emails and
then maybe they're getting someupsells and things like that.
And it has become overwhelmingfor me when I start to turn it
over, who am I looking for toturn this job?
And that's like one piece, oneof the systems, right, but there
(10:20):
might be many others behind thescenes.
The CRM system Right, but theremight be many others behind the
scenes.
The CRM system, those types ofthings you mentioned.
Diane Lam (10:31):
Who do I turn that over to?
Or and or people and or person.
I think in this particularscenario I would probably look
for like a tech VA.
Or you could like titles.
Ok, honestly, like let's justtake a step back.
Like titles mean nothing in theonline space.
Anyone can call themselvesanything they want.
It's more important that youreally look at what services
they're offering to make surethey're a match for what you
need.
So the most like general thing Iwould look for is like a tech
(10:52):
VA, because if you have a funnelbased system right, like you're
doing, you're doing the course.
It's a digital product.
You have the funnel set up.
Maybe you have multiple funnelsset up and like if you have
upsells, downsells, tripwires,things like that, the funnel has
gotten very complex.
You need someone who can reallymanage the technology side of
those things.
I think the biggest part abouttechnology and automation that
(11:15):
people also kind of forget islike it requires maintenance,
like yes, you can set it andforget it, but like softwares
update themselves and when thosethings update, sometimes they
get broken.
When your offer changes, youneed to make those updates
across the board and you need toknow where specifically to make
those updates.
So I would say they probablyneed someone who is a tech
focused, either virtualassistant they might even call
themselves an OBM someone whohas a very tech focused
(11:37):
background in the softwares thatyou're using in your funnel,
because not all tech VAs, again,are created equal.
Some of them focus onparticular software.
So if you hire a tech VA thatspecializes in like go high
level but you're using likeactive campaign, that's not
going to work either, right.
So you find someone who's reallyspecific to the technology that
(11:57):
you're using and in this caseI'd probably say that they might
want to consider as a secondlayer someone who can support
them in terms of the writingelements, because in a funnel
like this, in a digital product,a lot of it comes down to your
words and your messaging and thecontent that's being
distributed within the funnelLike that's, 50% of your funnel
is the actual words that arebeing sent out.
(12:19):
So if those pieces are notreally really strong or
something that you don't want tocontinuously create or don't
have the bandwidth to createwhich I see with a lot of
business owners, that's.
The next step is like we needsomeone to manage the tech.
We need someone to manage thecontent that are in the
messaging that is going out inthat funnel as well, to
continuously feed it and get youout of the day to day.
Sonja Crystal Williams (12:37):
That's huge Gosh.
You hit on so many great points.
So another thing too you'veused some terms of different
types of tools that people canuse, and I want to break some of
those down like as options,because some people know what
these tools are and some peopleare like what is that?
Or I heard of it.
I'm going to raise my hand onone of them, Dubsado.
(12:58):
I have no idea what Dubsadoreally is or what it does, but I
hear a lot about that one.
I think there's another one,Boxer, or something that might
start with a V.
You brought up ActiveCampaign.
Help everyone understand, likeare these a one size fit all
(13:18):
type of tool that's helping youmanage different pieces of those
systems, or just what are someof these tools that people have
access to check out?
Diane Lam (13:26):
Yeah, okay, so let's start with some of the things
that you mentioned.
Right?
So Dubsado I think they'veshifted a little bit of how they
market themselves.
They used to call themselves aCRM.
They're not really a CRM in atraditional sense.
Right?
So Dubsado is a businessmanagement tool.
It lets you do like your verylight lead tracking through,
like your sales process.
It lets you do proposal incontracts, like you know your
(13:49):
outbound sales stuff.
Like once you've gottensomebody on a sales call they've
said, yes, you need to do, likea contract, some sort of
proposal.
You can do that and then youcan get it very seamlessly to
invoice, right, like that'sreally the power that it has.
It has some other featuresaround, like a client portal and
things like, but they're all.
I don't think that they're veryusable when we think about,
like, what is a client portal?
How is a client going tointeract with it?
(14:10):
For the most part, the power isreally in that contract
proposal, invoice, streamlining,setup, right.
Like so if you were to sell thesame products, the same packages
, and it doesn't change a lot,once you start to vary a lot of
stuff, the Dubsado starts tobreak down a little bit.
Their automation capabilitiesare not built for that.
(14:32):
So if you are looking to reallystreamline your sales process,
I'd say Dubsado is a goodbusiness management tool for
that and it really depends on,like, what you're selling.
So if you don't sell that kindof thing, you probably, if you
sell digital products andcourses, you don't need Zubsado.
But if you do contracts andproposals and things like that,
zubsado is a good tool for that.
Voxer is a communication tool.
(14:52):
It's like a walkie talkie.
So if I want to like chat backand forth with you and send some
voice notes back and forth,voxer is a good tool for that.
I will say the limitations arethat it gets really messy.
If you have more than oneperson in a chat with you or you
want to organize yourconversation, it's very, very
hard to do that Like I would notdo it in Voxer.
(15:13):
I do not recommend for like abig group chat where you
actually like want to eithersave or remember to go back to
something, or you want to talkabout specific topics and be
able to organize it.
Not great, but I think you wantto have a conversation back
forth, like consistently, likewith a lot of one-on-one coaches
, like they love using that, orif you're working directly with
(15:33):
a client as a consultant, andthey just want to be able to ask
you questions and you respondperfect.
But anything bigger than that Ithink it's really it gets very
messy very quickly.
So those are kind of the firsttools that you, uh, that you,
you, you put out there to askquestions around Um.
And then I know I've mentionedsome different variations of
tools through this conversationas well and I will say that I
(15:55):
actually don't care about thesoftware.
Like I don't care what tool youuse.
Um, it could be high tech or lowtech, there's a lot of options
out there and, um, some of thethings that I mentioned are like
it really ties back to yourprocess.
What are you actually trying todo?
What are you trying to achieve?
Right, because that will helpyou pick the tech.
So that's why I'm always veryprocess driven process first
(16:16):
before anything, because I don'tknow what I'm doing, it's
really hard for me to pick thetech that's going to help me
stay organized and work in thatprocess and if I don't have the
tech, I also can't automateright.
So they're all kind of tiedtogether and they flow into each
other and it really dependswhat you are doing within your
business what technology is fitfor you, but I will say that
(16:37):
there's probably some prettycore tech that I'll say pretty
much every online business needs.
You generally will need somesort of project and task
management tool to keep track ofall of your work.
Like I was literally on thephone with someone earlier this
week and they like showed metheir pile of sticky notes and
then they like knocked over aglass of water.
Well, that's exactly why itneeds to be somewhere else.
(16:59):
It puts you up.
If you want to delegate andwork with virtual assistants or
anything like that, then it'ssomewhere where they could
actually have access to it aswell.
Cloud storage is also anotherpiece where, like well, if
you're creating materials forclients, like deliverables, that
has to go somewhere and itcan't just all go to your
downloads folder, so it's likewhere you're like searching
(17:20):
around for it, so putting itsomewhere where it can be
organized per client and andlike you can create templates,
and things like that are goingto be really important, like
literally every business.
Do that, um, and I will say alsoemail marketing software.
Um, because, like, yes, Ipersonally believe in email
marketing, but also, like, it'sprobably like fact-based, like
statistics wise, one of theplaces that people are still
(17:42):
actually selling the most andyou're not like at the whim of,
like, well, you know, you knowInstagram decided to do this
today with the algorithm, or,you know, tiktok's getting
banned or whatever it is.
So email marketing, I think, isone of the key tools that I
always recommend that a businessowner have, and I can't think
of a single business thatdoesn't need or shouldn't have
(18:03):
an email marketing platform.
But more than that, it can alsodouble as a platform for you to
be able to automate youronboarding and offboarding
processes, to be able to, like,work, manage your clients and
kind of see what they'vepurchased, if there are courses.
It can be like a mini CRM ifyou want it to be, if that's
what you need, and so I thinkthere's a lot of power there
because you can use it formultiple things and it also
(18:25):
drives your marketing engine.
So I will always say that, like, you will always need some sort
of email marketing platformwithin your business.
I think those are probably mytop three.
I mean, like taking money in apayment platform is kind of a
given, but those are kind of mytop three, like everyone needs.
Sonja Crystal Williams (18:41):
Yeah, I mean, though, I love those,
those are really great nonnegotiables.
And then back to your pointabout just not caring about the
software but caring about theprocess and just people needing
to remember, like, what's thebig result, because, ultimately,
like you're helping people findthat freedom, and so to find
that freedom, we got to attachthings that help them get there,
(19:03):
which just absolutely makes somuch sense, wow.
Which just absolutely makes somuch sense, wow.
So I guess I'll end just kindof on one final question, just
kind of as we wrap up ourconversation in general, which
is what?
What?
Give me an example of like asuccess story where you're like
this was like picture perfect,ideal, of like how someone was
(19:27):
able to get their systems inplace and get to that place
where they had that freedom theywanted.
Diane Lam (19:32):
Yeah, of course.
So, like I've had a lot ofclients who were wanting to
scale to agencies, right, likethey were done for you.
They wanted to build a biggerteam, they wanted to be able to
pitch bigger clients, and one ofthem actually came to me.
They were a team and they'relike we've done some of the
things.
Like we recorded a bunch ofLoom videos, we have some SOPs.
Like we hired like a few VAs tohelp us with the admin tasks,
(19:53):
but like I don't know, it's justnot working.
Like it doesn't feel easier.
Like I'm still working a lot.
Like my partner is working allthe time.
Like like this is we're workingmore than we work in corporate
and it seems like we're doingthe right things right, like so
we don't know what's wrong.
We need someone to just tell us.
We cannot like try and figureit out anymore.
So with them, I really wentthrough an assessment period
(20:14):
where we were like, okay, well,what is what do you?
What is the lay of the landhere?
What's really the big gaps?
And looking at that, I was like, oh well, you have tons of SOPs
but they don't actually producethe results that you want.
So this is not how you market.
Like this is not what you'redoing to actually generate your
leads, so that is not usable inthat way at all.
(20:36):
A lot of the work was stillbeing done between, like a share
drive, just between the twopartners.
It was like, well, if you havethese VAs, this is why it's
taking you so long to prepare,like to get them to get work.
You're not using them becauseyou're saying, oh, I can just do
it faster because you can't getto the work.
They cannot get to the work, soyou need to move off of the
share drive and put it somewherewhere the vas also have access.
And also the fact of the matteris you hired a bunch of general
(20:58):
vas to help you when you'rereally bogged down in the
delivery of all of your work.
I would probably refocus myhiring or my team structure to
for people to help you reallydeliver these work your clients.
And they also had some big gapswithin, like, their sales system
where they're like, yeah, wewant to pitch bigger corporate
(21:19):
clients, but like we don't knowwhat to use and like I mean we
send this Google proposal, likewe make it in Google Docs, and
they're like you know, likewould you be cool if you got
this and you know we were goingto charge you, we wanted to
double.
They wanted to double theirpricing, like 25, 30 K, like
like.
Well, I mean, it depends onyour client, right?
You're telling me now that youare, that you probably you're
(21:39):
telling me that you probably,they probably, were not going to
receive this.
Very well, cause you're, weshould watch you about the
google doc already, right?
So, knowing those things, wewent through and I recommended
like a new sales process, onethat included a more high-tech
um proposaling software,something that would do the
reminders for them.
That was kind of in play, wherethey had a catalog of items
they could just like.
(22:00):
Once it was built, what theyneeded, it did the reminders for
them.
It pushed them to the salesplatform when it was done, like
all their invoicing within there.
Once that was built, they felt alot better about pitching
bigger clients.
They reorg their team.
They hired a bunch more ofstrategists and writers to help
them because they were a writingagency.
(22:21):
They did a lot of writing,content creation, messaging,
work, things like that for a lot, of, I think, large and
mid-sized businesses and theyreally wanted to move to those
big corporations that have bignames.
So that really helped ease upthe delivery and they went from
like I mean, they were workinglike sometimes 60, 70 hours a
week and they're like, oh my God, I was like the first parent in
(22:41):
the school pickup line.
I've never been that way, soreally being able to cut their
workload in half.
And we worked together for threemonths and then we extended it
for one month just to wrapthings up and like give them
some more like consultingsupport and they were on their
own for two months.
After six months later theywere like they sent me a note.
It was like, oh my god, we justclosed and we just pitched and
(23:02):
won our first corporate clientand into the six-figure
engagement.
But where it was like, oh, nowwe are walking our talk, now
like we feel really good aboutshowing quadrupled our pricing
and like or like, yeah, we canhandle it Right.
You show up a different waywhen you know like my business
can back me up when I say thatthis service is worth, you know,
(23:25):
a hundred K.
It is worth it and it's we havethe process and the journey
that we're going to take you on.
That matches that like.
That's really, really powerful.
So that was like one of thebest success stories I've ever
had was like wow, you guysreally took this to heart.
Sonja Crystal Williams (23:38):
You said you spent four months with them
and they adapted it.
And well, really threeinitially.
I mean that's just really fastadaption on their part.
And then them being willing totake your guidance and act on it
.
And I've been there.
Proposals are so time consuming, so to have something in place
that really let them whipthrough it, I mean that's huge.
Diane Lam (23:57):
So yeah, you have to build a lot and we put a lot
into the build mode right, likein that framework, we built a
lot of things.
We brought in a lot of my ownteam members to like help,
support and build out thefoundation.
But it was all about theplanning right.
They had no idea what waspossible.
You know it usually takes alittle bit longer for owners to
(24:18):
like really integrate all ofthis stuff, but they're like no,
we're ready, like I trust I'mgoing to do the thing.
I'm like okay, like I love it.
I'm so proud of you guys.
I'm super excited to see whereyou go next.
Sonja Crystal Williams (24:27):
Wow, very cool.
Thank you for sharing, diane.
Wow, I could go on with morequestions because, wow, there's
just such a great conversationand systems need it so much and
really running our businessesday to day and helping us get
where we want to be.
I want to end our conversationwith a couple of quick lightning
round questions.
And first question I want toask you.
(24:51):
So you've been on the agencyside of things, you're now
helping businesses create thesesystems and scale, but if you
weren't doing any of thosethings let's say we were in an
alternate universe what wouldDiane somewhere else be doing?
Diane Lam (25:08):
You know, I think that's actually a good question
In an alternate universe.
If I would if I'd never hadthis background, I'd probably be
a teacher teacher, not a mathteacher, because I'm not good at
(25:36):
math.
Teacher of I think that that'swhat I would be doing.
Sonja Crystal Williams (25:39):
Very cool.
Second question is just about,like if you the you today, let's
just say who has all thisamazing knowledge in how to run
a business was talking to youwhen you first were starting,
what would the you of today sayto you of the past?
Diane Lam (26:01):
I would tell my past self to not just chase the money
, to do what actually feels goodand aligned and that you
actually want to do good andaligned and that you actually
want to do, because I spent alot of my business years chasing
the money and I burned outevery single time.
Right, I can do a lot of thingsand I can push it, I can hustle
(26:22):
, I can grind and I can make alot of money, but I ultimately
ended up with businesses Ididn't like right and that's
what kind of led me to like.
I'm on business iterationnumber five today, because if
you want to be sustainable, youhave to do something that you
feel good about, that you feelaligned with, that you really
want to do.
And that's the lesson I'mlearning now, some lessons I
like to learn the hard way.
Sonja Crystal Williams (26:41):
Yeah, all right.
Well, we'll end on that note.
Diane, you have a free resourcethat everyone can get a hold of
.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that resource?
Diane Lam (26:50):
Yeah.
So I think that one of thefirst places I see a lot of
business owners go is like theywant to hire support and it
makes sense right To get somelift in your day to day.
They want to hire a virtualassistant, maybe an OPM.
So I put together a what to payyour VA rates guide because I
think like well, can I afford?
It is often a big question.
So every year I update thisguide based off of what I see
(27:12):
from people who apply in mybusiness, based off of, like you
know, a lot of the searchesthat my clients are bringing in,
like you know, candidatesthey're seeing, and then also
like what I'm seeing, like aspeople advertise their services.
So this isn't just like I pulledthe numbers out of the air, but
it is a good reference pointfor the top six most common
types of VAs that I've seen.
You know what is the pay rangethat you can expect.
(27:35):
So like you can kind of knowwithin your budget, like kind of
where you're landing.
And I do break it down betweenUS based and overseas based so
that you also have thatreference.
And I just think it's reallyhelpful for anyone who's
considering hiring or is likenervous about making their first
hire.
It's a good resource to knowlike, hey, where's my budget?
Am I in the right range?
Is this like too far out ofleft field?
(27:55):
And to give you to literallylevel set so you can go into the
hiring process with someconfidence that you're like,
yeah, I can do this and it'sgoing to work for me.
Sonja Crystal Williams (28:02):
Wow, that is a super useful resource
and if anyone wants to grab it,go ahead and take a look at our
description.
We'll have a link posted therewhere you can get access to it,
as well as Diane's social medialinks, so you can get in touch
with her and reach out.
If you want to chat with herone-on-one, all right.
Well, thank you so mucheveryone for listening today.
Thank you so much, diane, forbeing here.
(28:23):
Until next time, everyone, bye,bye.
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