September 17, 2024 • 27 mins
Can writing a book be the key to skyrocketing your brand?
This week on the 10 Minute Marketing podcast, Sonja Crystal Williams sits down with Denise Renee, expert book writing coach and CEO, to demystify the process of writing a book tailored for entrepreneurial success. Denise shares invaluable insights on crafting a book that not only communicates your skills but also resonates with your target audience. She lays out the different types of books that help establish your thought leadership and how their unique roles can build your brand.
Sonja and Denise also break down the crucial elements that create bestsellers, including the marketing power of pre-sale campaigns and leveraging major publishers, the importance of keywords and SEO in making your book more discoverable on top platforms and sustain sales momentum, and more.
There is so much to learn from Denise's entrepreneurial journey and her role in helping businesspeople become authors. Plus, after listening to the episode, you're also invited to book a free Virtual Book Writing Coaching Session with Denise here!
About Denise Renee
Denise Renee likes to joke that she’s been writing ever since she could hold a crayon!
A professional writer since 1999, she has worked as an entertainment journalist, a marketing copywriter, a magazine editor, and a business book ghostwriter, to name a few of her experiences.
Today, through www.WritingWithDeniseRenee.com, she helps professionals, entrepreneurs, and content creators write books that connect them to their ideal audience, clients, collaborators, and other brand-building opportunities!
Of Caribbean descent, Denise Renee grew up in New York City and has lived in the Metro Atlanta area since 2008. Fun fact: Denise Renee is a double first name.
Follow Denise on LinkedIn and YouTube.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sonja Crystal Williams (00:05):
Hi everyone.
Welcome to today's episode ofthe 10Minute Marketing Podcast.
I'm your host, Sonja KristaWilliams.
Well, with me I've got aspecial guest today.
I want to welcome Denise Renee.
She is a book writing coach,she is an editor, she is a
content writer.
Thank you so much for beinghere today, Denise.
Denise Renee (00:23):
Thank you so much for having me, Sonja.
Sonja Crystal Willia (00:26):
Absolutely .
So let's just jump right intoit.
I want to talk about one of thethings you do really well.
I peeked at your testimonialsreel and saw all the amazing
things some of your clients hadto say about you when it comes
specifically to your help withbook writing.
(00:47):
So first let me say, the ideaof writing a book can sound
scary to a lot of people.
How do you, honestly, how doyou make it less scary?
What's the starting point?
Denise Renee (01:03):
I don't know.
I know that's a bad answer.
Sonja Crystal Williams (01:09):
It comes naturally, probably.
That's why.
Denise Renee (01:12):
It does, right.
I have been writing -- I liketo joke around and say that I've
been writing ever since I canhold a crayon, but it's almost
literally true and I've justfell into a love of reading and
a love of writing at a veryearly age and I've just been
working on the craft of writingfor about 40 years and I'm 25.
Sonja Crystal Williams (01:36):
There you go.
Denise Renee (01:41):
So there's a facility for me when it comes to
writing.
So when I'm working with people, I'm just like come to me,
what's your idea?
The number one prerequisitethat I need from people is to be
clear about what they want tocommunicate.
You don't have to have all thedetails, you don't have to have
an outline.
We'll definitely, you know,work together and make that
happen, but what is it that youwant to communicate, who is it
(02:04):
that you're looking tocommunicate with, and what is
the value that you offer?
If you're clear on those threethings, we can write 159,000
books.
Sonja Crystal Williams (02:14):
Okay, honestly, wow.
So they need to come with avision, in a sense.
Denise Renee (02:20):
Have clarity on what you want to communicate and
I can work with you from there.
Sonja Crystal Williams (02:32):
Ok, got it.
In the idea of writing or inthe idea of authorship for
entrepreneurs.
I've talked to many people likein your type of position and
what I'm curious about is inthat process, what kind of book
do they end up writing?
Is it branding?
Is it a biography?
Like, what could it look likein terms of the realms of
possibilities?
Denise Renee (02:52):
So there are about .
It depends on what type of bookyou're looking to write.
So I immediately want to splityou up into two categories.
Either you want to share thatbook that shares your expertise
and share your knowledge, and ifso, you want to write one of
three really popular styles ofbook.
You're either going to write ahow-to book, you're going to
(03:14):
write what I call a methodologybook, or you're going to write
some type of success storybook,whether it's your own successes
or the successes that you'vecreated for your clients, or
maybe a little bit of a hybrid,where you created a success for
yourself and now you've startedhelping other people have that
same type of success.
So you're either going to writethose three types of books or
(03:36):
you're looking to tell yourstory, and there are three types
of story archetypes that Irecommend people write their
story in.
Number one, if you already havea very wild rags- to- riches
type story, you know you werestarted from the bottom, now I'm
here" type of deal, people lovethat type of story.
(03:57):
If you have a very wild rollercoaster of a life where you know
you've had tremendous highs andreally low lows, that's an
amazing and engaging storyarchetype that people like.
But maybe you're like me andyou've had just kind of like
just a mundane life.
You grew up, you went tocollege, you did everything that
(04:18):
you were supposed to do, butmaybe there's something that
you've learned or that you doreally exceptionally well and
people want to hear that fromyou and they want to hear well,
how were you able to do thisthing so that you zero in on
that particular story and justyou know, framing the story
around it and sharing lessonslearned?
So I've got frameworks.
Whatever you want to do, yougot to tell me what you want.
Sonja Crystal Williams (04:42):
I got it .
I love that.
No, I think you put that really.
You articulated on it in such agood way.
I've never heard it broken downthat way, because it does to me
-- like I'm one of those people, like the idea of writing a
book to me right now is a littlescary and I've inched like
maybe, maybe, maybe.
But putting it into those boxesmakes it feel like, okay, I can
(05:05):
see where this is going.
Now can I interject and saythis.
I would say that for mostpeople we're largely unknown,
like nobody knows us from a canof paint right.
And sometimes people want totell their story for cathartic
reasons and I don't think thatthat's necessarily a bad idea,
(05:25):
but that may not be the best wayunless you really have a
lockdown on those.
You know that dramatic story orthat rags- to- riches story.
It doesn't matter who you are,people love those types of
stories, period.
You're a coach, you're aconsultant, you're a
professional medicalprofessional, lawyer, whatever
(05:52):
and you're looking to just buildyour personal brand, you should
really write what my friendCarol J Dunlop calls the money
book, because it should be thatthing that really helps propel
you as a professional or as abusiness owner and your products
and your services.
Once you put that type of abook out there and you start
using that book to get moreclients, get more opportunities,
grow your brand, you will growan audience of people who are
(06:15):
going to now want to know alittle bit more about you.
And I would say write thatpersonal story when people want
it.
There's a reason why celebritiesget big old book deals because
they already have an audience ofpeople who are interested in
them.
Michelle Obama can rewrite"Mary had a Little Lamb and that
thing is going to sell out.
(06:35):
Why?
Because she is Michelle.
Right, britney Spears can comeout with her book and I'm like
she was not my audience.
I wasn't a Britney fan, but Ifelt like I lived through
everything Britney.
I saw it all in the tap list.
But you know what?
Britney has a core audience ofpeople who want to hear from her
.
She's been locked away foryears in this conservatorship so
(06:56):
, boom, she has an audience ofpeople who want that book.
The book was a bestseller.
I didn't buy it, but you knowshe had people who bought it and
that's all she needed to know.
And that's the thing it's aboutreally knowing the audience,
for whom wants your stuff, andif you have an audience, give it
to them.
If you don't, you're gonna be-- I'm not saying don't do it or
(07:16):
don't write that book, but youcould be really pushing the rock
up the hill to try to getpeople to come around to your
story.
Right, because they just don'tknow you.
But if you give people thevalue that you are already
giving in the marketplace,they're going to love you and
eventually they are going towant the story.
So yeah, no, that's where I put my
marketing hat on and I'm likebuild your audience first, and
that's true of anything.
(07:38):
Any business owner or brand isgoing to launch Like you.
you need that audience so youcould be building and building
and building, and then, whenyou're ready to launch it, you
have a group of captive, captivepeople who are interested in
what you want to share.
So that's such a good point.
Let me ask you about somethingelse, cause you bring up a good
point like one using the book asa tool.
(08:01):
Especially if you're aconsultant or a coach or
anything like that, it's a greatopportunity as a tool.
I also, for me personally, likewhen I'm working with clients
I've come across many.
.
.
I don't want to call themauthors.
They become authors, but I comeacross business owners who
become authors, but some of themI meet, they come, and this is
(08:21):
not neither good or bad, but Ijust want to ask you to spit it
out the person who comes to youand says I want to be a
bestseller.
What breakdown bestsellers?
What does that mean really?
Denise Renee (08:43):
Sure, so I'm gonna start by saying what it is not.
Best- seller does not equalbest written.
Your book could be written inCrayola, but if you have a dope
marketing plan and if you arejust hitting it hard and sell
that book, then it becomes abest seller.
(09:05):
There are definitely tips,tricks, hacks to becoming a
bestseller, and then it dependson what does bestseller mean to
you?
If you just want the accoladesand you're trying to go after
New York Times bestseller, WallStreet Journal, US News and
World Report --although some ofthem, I think, have like puzzles
(09:25):
list, because they can begamified and they're gamified by
how.
First of all you have to bepublished by a major publisher,
so if you're self-published youain't getting on them lists.
Sonja Crystal Williams (09:39):
Not the New York Times bestseller list.
You're not getting on them.
Denise Renee (09:43):
You have to go through a major publisher.
That's what counts.
But those authors and thosepublishing houses, they're going
through a lot of pre-salecampaigns and this is what makes
you get on the list.
It is your pre-sales marketinggame plan that on launch day, on
(10:03):
the official day, so they arecollecting sales and sales and
sales, but they don't countuntil the day it's released.
So all of the buzz that youhave created on release day, you
have all these sales.
Meanwhile, it's not thateverybody ran to Barnes and
Nobles or ran to Amazon to getit.
It's that for weeks and weeksand weeks, people have been
(10:24):
slowly but surely buying thebook and pre-ordering the book.
I think a great example,because Black women are my
examples for everything, KerryWashington, steph's kids, right.
So she released her book lastyear.
Homegirl was everywhere, allright, promoting the heck out of
(10:44):
that book.
Now I am her audience and I wasgoing to buy it any old way.
But I saw her everywhere.
Okay, she was literally on aworld tour.
She took pictures in London.
She was looking like a wholesnack, looking like Olivia Pope.
Sonja Crystal Williams (10:57):
I was like wait, I do remember that I
do.
Did Scandal come back, likewhat?
Denise Renee (11:04):
But she was everywhere promoting this damn
book.
So she has a platform, she hasan audience of people and she
had a really compelling story totell and share and she sold the
heck out of that book, right?
So you have to do all of thosethings, even if you are a named
celebrity.
That's why you see them whenthey have a book.
They're on all the night shows,they're on all the daytime
(11:26):
shows.
So we are not you and I.
We're not, you know, big oldcelebrities, right.
Right, we're business owners.
We are, you know whatever, butwe have our own communities.
So what a lot of people wouldlike to go for is maybe that
Amazon bestseller.
The same thing applies.
You have to have, you have towork in it, you have to have
(11:47):
everything up and in place andhave a pre-sale campaign.
So you really have to get intoyour grassroots tactics, get
into your collaboration tactics,get into your podcast bag and
go everywhere that you can togenerate the buzz for the
presale so that on launch day orin that first week, you hit the
(12:09):
top of that Amazon category.
Also, it also goes with havingyour keywords in your titles, in
your description, all of thatgood SEO stuff to help be
discoverable.
So what happens is people thinkthat they can just put their
book on Amazon and Amazon'sgoing to sell you lipsticks,
(12:30):
jewelry, fiber laxatives, gummybears, no longer just a
bookstore.
They will sell you anything thatyou think they think you want
to buy.
I got an email the other day,Amazon.
The subject line said hey, wefound some things that you would
(12:52):
like.
I opened the email.
I'm like y'all, that was what Iwas just browsing two days ago.
Those times you found it.
Sonja Crystal Williams (13:01):
You, just you've been spying on me,
yeah, right.
Denise Renee (13:04):
But Amazon does not care what they sell.
So what you have to do is, kindof, you know, nudge the
algorithm to your advantage.
You hit all your pre-sales.
So once your book starts havingsome traction, Amazon's like oh
, you got something going onover there.
Okay, well, we may have somecustomers over here for you and
(13:25):
in that little you might alsolike this, because you bought
this book before.
You might like this.
That's when you start gettingrecommended, but you, the author
, have to drive that attention.
So I think one of the biggestmisconceptions that people may
have about writing and selling abook, or writing and
self-publishing they really wantto sit down on the marketing
(13:47):
piece and it's like if you don'tsell it, it's not gonna get
sold yeah, okay.
Sonja Crystal Williams (13:53):
Okay, I love it.
Good, good, good.
Denise Renee (13:55):
Thank you, I can talk and I can talk.
Sonja Crystal Williams (14:03):
Now, I think, the Amazon and
self-publishing, I think, can bea very realistic path for your
average small business owner?
I definitely have seen many ofthem hit that bestsellers list.
Um, but it's exactly how yousaid there was a pregame plan in
place and then, once the bookstarted selling, even then just
had things in place so thatthere was continuity.
Denise Renee (14:23):
You got to keep marketing your book.
Sonja Crystal Williams (14:25):
That's like you have to keep marketing
your business.
It doesn't stop.
No, so bridging from writingbooks.
So the perspective of a smallbusiness owner, coach, a
consultant, writing a book tothe content side, just day to
day content that gets createdwhen you're working with clients
(14:46):
does someone in your role oryou specifically, if you all
want to hire Denise Renee doessomeone in your role actually do
the writing like a ghost writer?
Or does that consultant orcoach need to come to the table
with writing knowledge andexpertise or have something
together as far as being able towrite?
Denise Renee (15:08):
My experience, you know, as a content marketer,
digital marketer, social media,having done that on the
corporate side as well asindependently for like 15 or so
years, that is something that Ican help people with.
I try not to take on too manydone- for- you services because
(15:30):
it can be a little bitoverwhelming, but I am.
I really like coaching peopleand helping them through and
honestly it really I thinksometimes people get overwhelmed
by content because they're justlike oh my God, I got to be on
all the platforms and I got todo all the things and no, you
don't.
I think if you have a reallywell thought out content plan
(15:55):
and really it's not even aboutcreating the content, it's about
not repurposing, it's aboutwhat's the word I'm looking for?
Promoting the content you reallyhave to promote your content
and really get strategic aboutthat.
You could put out one majorpiece of content a week.
It could be an article a week,it could be a podcast a week,
(16:18):
but how are we promoting thisand getting it in front of the
people that really need to beseeing this?
So that's where you have to bestrategic.
There's where you have todecide, you know am I a writer?
Am I a talker, or am I a, youknow, video personality?
Or are you like me?
You all three, um, but I, youknow, I love making content.
That's just me, because I'm acreative person.
(16:39):
I have other ways that Iexpress my creativity, but
everybody doesn't like it, andthat's fine.
Be strategic, and you know, andI can help people with either a
coming to me with content, like,for example, one of my clients
here.
I try to keep a few client bookexamples around this particular
(17:00):
client.
He came to me, he has a lot ofvideo content, and so he had
transcribed a bunch of thevideos and was like yeah, you
know, just look this over, I'mabout to post this.
I was like pump the brakes, youknow.
Sonja Crystal Williams (17:18):
You can't.
Denise Renee (17:18):
He just transcribed the videos and was
like this is -- like he wasready to go, and I was like no,
I want you to look good, okay,once you look good.
And I was like, okay, the basisof this information is great,
let's give it a framework, let'sjust and so he did, he took my
advice and the book is fantastic.
(17:38):
So, you can start with contentand you know, recently, I
actually also have a podcastcalled the Selling Your Book
Podcast.
You can find it on YouTube orSpotify.
But I interview people who are,you know, just everyday authors
they're not big celebrities oranything like that and they
(18:00):
share their tips on what they'vebeen doing to sell their books.
What a number of them have saidis that they started, they wrote
their first book by repurposingexisting content.
So that is definitely one routeto take.
Or you can start 100% fromscratch and be like hey, you
know, I have this idea for abook.
You can write the book and thenyou can take that book and it
(18:23):
can become the content that youdrip out.
Not necessarily, you knowputting out chapters as such,
but the concepts.
You could be talking aboutthose concepts in your content.
And then your call to action atthe end is hey.
If you want to get more of this, get my book.
Sonja Crystal Williams (18:38):
Yeah, no , and I've seen it done and some
of the, you know, kind ofbiggest names and thought
leadership and authors will tellyou could technically drip that
book out on Instagram.
You could drip it out onYouTube, maybe not a chapter at
a time, but you could take thoselittle snippets.
You can give everyone the wholebook.
They will still buy the bookbecause of the perceived value
(18:58):
yeah, exactly, and because it'sall together.
.
.
Denise Renee (19:01):
Exactly, that's true, and you don't have to
piece it.
And they want it that.
Well, at least I know I wouldwant it that way.
Sonja Crystal Williams (19:08):
All right, very cool.
Denise Renee, thank you so muchfor sharing so many good.
You dropped a lot of greatpearls I want to end, well,
we'll say my job.
There we go.
So I like to end every episodeasking you a few questions.
This is our lightning round.
(19:30):
I'm going to ask you a fewquick questions.
Question number one what areyou into right now, and this
could be like a hobby orsomething, for me it's gardening
right now, that you just can'tget enough of?
Denise Renee (19:43):
Nails.
Oh, or is it the ring?
Is it the jewelry?
Which one?
Which one?
Well I ell don't want to go tooclose because I'm kind of in
between and I have some makeupon one nail right here, but I do
, I'm into doing my own nailsnail.
Oh, you did that yourself?
Yeah, don't look too closely, because I I was
(20:04):
taking off one, uh one layer andI'm about to repaint them, so I
can't well if I go too close,but yeah, I love doing my nails
Sonja Crystal Williams (20:14):
Wow, okay, so nail design has become
a thing for you.
Very, very cool, okay.
Another question, and I like toask this question sometimes
when I am doing interviews withother parents, moms, dads,
everything.
How do you strike the balance?
Because you've been in businessfor yourself for a while,
you've got a child.
Well, maybe not a little kidanymore, but no, you've got a
(20:44):
child.
Well, maybe not not a littlekid anymore, but 13 years ago,
yes so, but still in the house,yeah, how do you strike the
balance?
Because you got, you know,sports and after-school events
and drop-offs and pickups andall of that.
What's been helpful to you interms of striking the balance?
Denise Renee (21:00):
First of all, I'm going to say something a little
controversial.
Okay, I don't believe inbalance, because I don't think
that, to me, the term balanceassumes that everything has an
equal weight.
And I don't think thateverything has an equal weight
and I don't think thateverything has an equal weight
all at the same time.
I think things are important,but I think in this moment, this
(21:24):
is a priority.
In this moment, that is apriority.
So I really say, okay, you knowwhat?
What's important this week?
What's important today?
What do I need to focus on now?
So for me, it's more likejuggling and it's like just
making sure, you know, the ballsstay in the air.
Sometimes I drop the ball.
(21:44):
Yeah, maybe only one or twoballs get dropped, I don't know.
But so I look at it more likejuggling.
I'll say this, I'm no longertogether with my former partner,
my son's father.
So we actually are in -- I don'tknow, and you know he has his
(22:05):
days, I have my days.
You know we split our son inthe middle, but no like..
.
And even if it's like, if it'shis day, then he's like hey, I
got something going on, can youpick up the slack?
Or vice versa.
So, number one, I have aparenting partner.
So, yes, you know, there's that.
Number two, I have days when myson's not here, so it gives me
(22:28):
an opportunity to focus ondifferent things.
When he's here, my prioritiesare a little bit different.
When he's not here, I'm like,no, I'm not.
You little bit different.
When he's not here, I'm like,no, I'm not, um, I'm just
worried.
You're like, oh, he's not here,wait, I can see him later.
They're getting more stuff done, um, but uh, but yeah.
So really just having parents,uh, having partnership in
(22:53):
parenting, having a little tinyvillage.
Sonja Crystal Williams (22:56):
Thank you for sharing.
One more final question, andthis is kind of on the business
tip what have you enjoyed mostabout being an entrepreneur?
Denise Renee (23:07):
That's a good question, or it could be a
couple of things.
So I feel like I'm you know,I'm a brand new entrepreneur
because I literally relaunched.
I launched a completelydifferent brand last year, but I
feel like I have experience inthat I will have experience.
Sonja Crystal Williams (23:29):
Right.
Denise Renee (23:29):
I've got content.
But I also I'm like okay, youknow, I have the experience of
saying, okay, this is whatworked well, this was what
didn't work well, this is what Iwant to do differently, this is
how I want to move forward.
So, like I said earlier, Idon't really want to get too
involved in like done- for- youprojects, which is how I kind of
(23:51):
ran my business before.
So now I'm like I'm thecoaching girl, I will help you,
let me come alongside of youwhile you do the right.
And for those kind of high-touch services, I had to
re-price and be like okay, ifI'm going to do this for you, if
you want to hire me to do thisfor you, it's just not going to
(24:13):
be cheap and that's fine.
If I don't get those clients,I'm totally fine, because I've
got other things to do and Ialso had to create margin for
myself and I'm like you knowwhat?
What I'm missing is my owncreativity, because I also write
short stories and I haven'tpublished anything.
So, being able to create marginto not only take care of other
(24:35):
people but take care of me inthe process, and my creative.
What I want to get done.
Yeah, so important to me.
So I think the beauty aboutthat was the long circuit to the
answer.
I think the beauty of being anentrepreneur is that you get to
shape what you want to shape.
You get to pivot.
(24:56):
When you want to pivot, you getto say you know what, I don't
want to do this anymore, I wantto do something completely
different.
Who knows, in a year or two Imight be like, you know what I'm
going to be a nail contentcreator from now on.
Sonja Crystal Williams (25:07):
Who knows?
Denise Renee (25:09):
But I think that is the beauty of
entrepreneurship, it does nothave to look one way.
It does not have to look likesomebody else's journey.
Take your time, look one way.
Do what you got to do, but doit because you love it.
Sonja Crystal Williams (25:21):
Yeah, love it.
Thank you so much for beinghere, Denise Renee.
So we're going to post Denise'sinformation.
You can find that available inour description.
If you'd like to follow her,get in touch and, Denise, you
have a freebie for listenersright?
Denise Renee (25:35):
Yes, I do so.
If you are that coach, thatconsultant, that medical
professional, that contentcreator, that educator who is
looking to take your expertise,you want to put it into a book.
You know that you want to getmore speaking engagements and
(25:56):
more opportunities and you knowthat that book is that hurdle
that you just got to get over.
But just like, how do I getstarted?
Where do I get started?
What do I do and what werethose three book types that we
talked about?
I have put together somethingthat, I don't know, I've never
really seen anybody do like.
(26:16):
I have the typical freebiewhere you just go, you drop your
name, you download the PDF andthen it sits there and collects
digital dust.
I don't want that for you.
I actually want to help youthink through what you need to
think through and get startedwriting your book.
So I have what I call myVirtual Book Writing Coaching
Session.
(26:36):
It is credit card free, youdon't need a credit card but it
will require your time and yourattention and if you do the work
, you will be able to startwriting.
You'll come out of it knowingwhat to do to get started
writing your book.
So you can get more info aboutthat at writingwithdeniserenee.
(26:57):
com/ free coaching.
Real help, no BS, just gettingyou started writing your book,
no credit card required.
Sonja Crystal Williams (27:10):
Perfect.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you everyone forlistening.
Until next time we'll see youthen.
Denise Renee (27:20):
Thank you for having me.
Hi everyone.
Welcome to today's episode ofthe 10Minute Marketing Podcast.
I'm your host, Sonja KristaWilliams.
Well, with me I've got aspecial guest today.
I want to welcome Denise Renee.
She is a book writing coach,she is an editor, she is a
content writer.
Thank you so much for beinghere today, Denise.
Denise Renee (00:23):
Thank you so much for having me, Sonja.
Sonja Crystal Willia (00:26):
Absolutely .
So let's just jump right intoit.
I want to talk about one of thethings you do really well.
I peeked at your testimonialsreel and saw all the amazing
things some of your clients hadto say about you when it comes
specifically to your help withbook writing.
(00:47):
So first let me say, the ideaof writing a book can sound
scary to a lot of people.
How do you, honestly, how doyou make it less scary?
What's the starting point?
Denise Renee (01:03):
I don't know.
I know that's a bad answer.
Sonja Crystal Williams (01:09):
It comes naturally, probably.
That's why.
Denise Renee (01:12):
It does, right.
I have been writing -- I liketo joke around and say that I've
been writing ever since I canhold a crayon, but it's almost
literally true and I've justfell into a love of reading and
a love of writing at a veryearly age and I've just been
working on the craft of writingfor about 40 years and I'm 25.
Sonja Crystal Williams (01:36):
There you go.
Denise Renee (01:41):
So there's a facility for me when it comes to
writing.
So when I'm working with people, I'm just like come to me,
what's your idea?
The number one prerequisitethat I need from people is to be
clear about what they want tocommunicate.
You don't have to have all thedetails, you don't have to have
an outline.
We'll definitely, you know,work together and make that
happen, but what is it that youwant to communicate, who is it
(02:04):
that you're looking tocommunicate with, and what is
the value that you offer?
If you're clear on those threethings, we can write 159,000
books.
Sonja Crystal Williams (02:14):
Okay, honestly, wow.
So they need to come with avision, in a sense.
Denise Renee (02:20):
Have clarity on what you want to communicate and
I can work with you from there.
Sonja Crystal Williams (02:32):
Ok, got it.
In the idea of writing or inthe idea of authorship for
entrepreneurs.
I've talked to many people likein your type of position and
what I'm curious about is inthat process, what kind of book
do they end up writing?
Is it branding?
Is it a biography?
Like, what could it look likein terms of the realms of
possibilities?
Denise Renee (02:52):
So there are about .
It depends on what type of bookyou're looking to write.
So I immediately want to splityou up into two categories.
Either you want to share thatbook that shares your expertise
and share your knowledge, and ifso, you want to write one of
three really popular styles ofbook.
You're either going to write ahow-to book, you're going to
(03:14):
write what I call a methodologybook, or you're going to write
some type of success storybook,whether it's your own successes
or the successes that you'vecreated for your clients, or
maybe a little bit of a hybrid,where you created a success for
yourself and now you've startedhelping other people have that
same type of success.
So you're either going to writethose three types of books or
(03:36):
you're looking to tell yourstory, and there are three types
of story archetypes that Irecommend people write their
story in.
Number one, if you already havea very wild rags- to- riches
type story, you know you werestarted from the bottom, now I'm
here" type of deal, people lovethat type of story.
(03:57):
If you have a very wild rollercoaster of a life where you know
you've had tremendous highs andreally low lows, that's an
amazing and engaging storyarchetype that people like.
But maybe you're like me andyou've had just kind of like
just a mundane life.
You grew up, you went tocollege, you did everything that
(04:18):
you were supposed to do, butmaybe there's something that
you've learned or that you doreally exceptionally well and
people want to hear that fromyou and they want to hear well,
how were you able to do thisthing so that you zero in on
that particular story and justyou know, framing the story
around it and sharing lessonslearned?
So I've got frameworks.
Whatever you want to do, yougot to tell me what you want.
Sonja Crystal Williams (04:42):
I got it .
I love that.
No, I think you put that really.
You articulated on it in such agood way.
I've never heard it broken downthat way, because it does to me
-- like I'm one of those people, like the idea of writing a
book to me right now is a littlescary and I've inched like
maybe, maybe, maybe.
But putting it into those boxesmakes it feel like, okay, I can
(05:05):
see where this is going.
Now can I interject and saythis.
I would say that for mostpeople we're largely unknown,
like nobody knows us from a canof paint right.
And sometimes people want totell their story for cathartic
reasons and I don't think thatthat's necessarily a bad idea,
(05:25):
but that may not be the best wayunless you really have a
lockdown on those.
You know that dramatic story orthat rags- to- riches story.
It doesn't matter who you are,people love those types of
stories, period.
You're a coach, you're aconsultant, you're a
professional medicalprofessional, lawyer, whatever
(05:52):
and you're looking to just buildyour personal brand, you should
really write what my friendCarol J Dunlop calls the money
book, because it should be thatthing that really helps propel
you as a professional or as abusiness owner and your products
and your services.
Once you put that type of abook out there and you start
using that book to get moreclients, get more opportunities,
grow your brand, you will growan audience of people who are
(06:15):
going to now want to know alittle bit more about you.
And I would say write thatpersonal story when people want
it.
There's a reason why celebritiesget big old book deals because
they already have an audience ofpeople who are interested in
them.
Michelle Obama can rewrite"Mary had a Little Lamb and that
thing is going to sell out.
(06:35):
Why?
Because she is Michelle.
Right, britney Spears can comeout with her book and I'm like
she was not my audience.
I wasn't a Britney fan, but Ifelt like I lived through
everything Britney.
I saw it all in the tap list.
But you know what?
Britney has a core audience ofpeople who want to hear from her
.
She's been locked away foryears in this conservatorship so
(06:56):
, boom, she has an audience ofpeople who want that book.
The book was a bestseller.
I didn't buy it, but you knowshe had people who bought it and
that's all she needed to know.
And that's the thing it's aboutreally knowing the audience,
for whom wants your stuff, andif you have an audience, give it
to them.
If you don't, you're gonna be-- I'm not saying don't do it or
(07:16):
don't write that book, but youcould be really pushing the rock
up the hill to try to getpeople to come around to your
story.
Right, because they just don'tknow you.
But if you give people thevalue that you are already
giving in the marketplace,they're going to love you and
eventually they are going towant the story.
So yeah, no, that's where I put my
marketing hat on and I'm likebuild your audience first, and
that's true of anything.
(07:38):
Any business owner or brand isgoing to launch Like you.
you need that audience so youcould be building and building
and building, and then, whenyou're ready to launch it, you
have a group of captive, captivepeople who are interested in
what you want to share.
So that's such a good point.
Let me ask you about somethingelse, cause you bring up a good
point like one using the book asa tool.
(08:01):
Especially if you're aconsultant or a coach or
anything like that, it's a greatopportunity as a tool.
I also, for me personally, likewhen I'm working with clients
I've come across many.
.
.
I don't want to call themauthors.
They become authors, but I comeacross business owners who
become authors, but some of themI meet, they come, and this is
(08:21):
not neither good or bad, but Ijust want to ask you to spit it
out the person who comes to youand says I want to be a
bestseller.
What breakdown bestsellers?
What does that mean really?
Denise Renee (08:43):
Sure, so I'm gonna start by saying what it is not.
Best- seller does not equalbest written.
Your book could be written inCrayola, but if you have a dope
marketing plan and if you arejust hitting it hard and sell
that book, then it becomes abest seller.
(09:05):
There are definitely tips,tricks, hacks to becoming a
bestseller, and then it dependson what does bestseller mean to
you?
If you just want the accoladesand you're trying to go after
New York Times bestseller, WallStreet Journal, US News and
World Report --although some ofthem, I think, have like puzzles
(09:25):
list, because they can begamified and they're gamified by
how.
First of all you have to bepublished by a major publisher,
so if you're self-published youain't getting on them lists.
Sonja Crystal Williams (09:39):
Not the New York Times bestseller list.
You're not getting on them.
Denise Renee (09:43):
You have to go through a major publisher.
That's what counts.
But those authors and thosepublishing houses, they're going
through a lot of pre-salecampaigns and this is what makes
you get on the list.
It is your pre-sales marketinggame plan that on launch day, on
(10:03):
the official day, so they arecollecting sales and sales and
sales, but they don't countuntil the day it's released.
So all of the buzz that youhave created on release day, you
have all these sales.
Meanwhile, it's not thateverybody ran to Barnes and
Nobles or ran to Amazon to getit.
It's that for weeks and weeksand weeks, people have been
(10:24):
slowly but surely buying thebook and pre-ordering the book.
I think a great example,because Black women are my
examples for everything, KerryWashington, steph's kids, right.
So she released her book lastyear.
Homegirl was everywhere, allright, promoting the heck out of
(10:44):
that book.
Now I am her audience and I wasgoing to buy it any old way.
But I saw her everywhere.
Okay, she was literally on aworld tour.
She took pictures in London.
She was looking like a wholesnack, looking like Olivia Pope.
Sonja Crystal Williams (10:57):
I was like wait, I do remember that I
do.
Did Scandal come back, likewhat?
Denise Renee (11:04):
But she was everywhere promoting this damn
book.
So she has a platform, she hasan audience of people and she
had a really compelling story totell and share and she sold the
heck out of that book, right?
So you have to do all of thosethings, even if you are a named
celebrity.
That's why you see them whenthey have a book.
They're on all the night shows,they're on all the daytime
(11:26):
shows.
So we are not you and I.
We're not, you know, big oldcelebrities, right.
Right, we're business owners.
We are, you know whatever, butwe have our own communities.
So what a lot of people wouldlike to go for is maybe that
Amazon bestseller.
The same thing applies.
You have to have, you have towork in it, you have to have
(11:47):
everything up and in place andhave a pre-sale campaign.
So you really have to get intoyour grassroots tactics, get
into your collaboration tactics,get into your podcast bag and
go everywhere that you can togenerate the buzz for the
presale so that on launch day orin that first week, you hit the
(12:09):
top of that Amazon category.
Also, it also goes with havingyour keywords in your titles, in
your description, all of thatgood SEO stuff to help be
discoverable.
So what happens is people thinkthat they can just put their
book on Amazon and Amazon'sgoing to sell you lipsticks,
(12:30):
jewelry, fiber laxatives, gummybears, no longer just a
bookstore.
They will sell you anything thatyou think they think you want
to buy.
I got an email the other day,Amazon.
The subject line said hey, wefound some things that you would
(12:52):
like.
I opened the email.
I'm like y'all, that was what Iwas just browsing two days ago.
Those times you found it.
Sonja Crystal Williams (13:01):
You, just you've been spying on me,
yeah, right.
Denise Renee (13:04):
But Amazon does not care what they sell.
So what you have to do is, kindof, you know, nudge the
algorithm to your advantage.
You hit all your pre-sales.
So once your book starts havingsome traction, Amazon's like oh
, you got something going onover there.
Okay, well, we may have somecustomers over here for you and
(13:25):
in that little you might alsolike this, because you bought
this book before.
You might like this.
That's when you start gettingrecommended, but you, the author
, have to drive that attention.
So I think one of the biggestmisconceptions that people may
have about writing and selling abook, or writing and
self-publishing they really wantto sit down on the marketing
(13:47):
piece and it's like if you don'tsell it, it's not gonna get
sold yeah, okay.
Sonja Crystal Williams (13:53):
Okay, I love it.
Good, good, good.
Denise Renee (13:55):
Thank you, I can talk and I can talk.
Sonja Crystal Williams (14:03):
Now, I think, the Amazon and
self-publishing, I think, can bea very realistic path for your
average small business owner?
I definitely have seen many ofthem hit that bestsellers list.
Um, but it's exactly how yousaid there was a pregame plan in
place and then, once the bookstarted selling, even then just
had things in place so thatthere was continuity.
Denise Renee (14:23):
You got to keep marketing your book.
Sonja Crystal Williams (14:25):
That's like you have to keep marketing
your business.
It doesn't stop.
No, so bridging from writingbooks.
So the perspective of a smallbusiness owner, coach, a
consultant, writing a book tothe content side, just day to
day content that gets createdwhen you're working with clients
(14:46):
does someone in your role oryou specifically, if you all
want to hire Denise Renee doessomeone in your role actually do
the writing like a ghost writer?
Or does that consultant orcoach need to come to the table
with writing knowledge andexpertise or have something
together as far as being able towrite?
Denise Renee (15:08):
My experience, you know, as a content marketer,
digital marketer, social media,having done that on the
corporate side as well asindependently for like 15 or so
years, that is something that Ican help people with.
I try not to take on too manydone- for- you services because
(15:30):
it can be a little bitoverwhelming, but I am.
I really like coaching peopleand helping them through and
honestly it really I thinksometimes people get overwhelmed
by content because they're justlike oh my God, I got to be on
all the platforms and I got todo all the things and no, you
don't.
I think if you have a reallywell thought out content plan
(15:55):
and really it's not even aboutcreating the content, it's about
not repurposing, it's aboutwhat's the word I'm looking for?
Promoting the content you reallyhave to promote your content
and really get strategic aboutthat.
You could put out one majorpiece of content a week.
It could be an article a week,it could be a podcast a week,
(16:18):
but how are we promoting thisand getting it in front of the
people that really need to beseeing this?
So that's where you have to bestrategic.
There's where you have todecide, you know am I a writer?
Am I a talker, or am I a, youknow, video personality?
Or are you like me?
You all three, um, but I, youknow, I love making content.
That's just me, because I'm acreative person.
(16:39):
I have other ways that Iexpress my creativity, but
everybody doesn't like it, andthat's fine.
Be strategic, and you know, andI can help people with either a
coming to me with content, like,for example, one of my clients
here.
I try to keep a few client bookexamples around this particular
(17:00):
client.
He came to me, he has a lot ofvideo content, and so he had
transcribed a bunch of thevideos and was like yeah, you
know, just look this over, I'mabout to post this.
I was like pump the brakes, youknow.
Sonja Crystal Williams (17:18):
You can't.
Denise Renee (17:18):
He just transcribed the videos and was
like this is -- like he wasready to go, and I was like no,
I want you to look good, okay,once you look good.
And I was like, okay, the basisof this information is great,
let's give it a framework, let'sjust and so he did, he took my
advice and the book is fantastic.
(17:38):
So, you can start with contentand you know, recently, I
actually also have a podcastcalled the Selling Your Book
Podcast.
You can find it on YouTube orSpotify.
But I interview people who are,you know, just everyday authors
they're not big celebrities oranything like that and they
(18:00):
share their tips on what they'vebeen doing to sell their books.
What a number of them have saidis that they started, they wrote
their first book by repurposingexisting content.
So that is definitely one routeto take.
Or you can start 100% fromscratch and be like hey, you
know, I have this idea for abook.
You can write the book and thenyou can take that book and it
(18:23):
can become the content that youdrip out.
Not necessarily, you knowputting out chapters as such,
but the concepts.
You could be talking aboutthose concepts in your content.
And then your call to action atthe end is hey.
If you want to get more of this, get my book.
Sonja Crystal Williams (18:38):
Yeah, no , and I've seen it done and some
of the, you know, kind ofbiggest names and thought
leadership and authors will tellyou could technically drip that
book out on Instagram.
You could drip it out onYouTube, maybe not a chapter at
a time, but you could take thoselittle snippets.
You can give everyone the wholebook.
They will still buy the bookbecause of the perceived value
(18:58):
yeah, exactly, and because it'sall together.
.
.
Denise Renee (19:01):
Exactly, that's true, and you don't have to
piece it.
And they want it that.
Well, at least I know I wouldwant it that way.
Sonja Crystal Williams (19:08):
All right, very cool.
Denise Renee, thank you so muchfor sharing so many good.
You dropped a lot of greatpearls I want to end, well,
we'll say my job.
There we go.
So I like to end every episodeasking you a few questions.
This is our lightning round.
(19:30):
I'm going to ask you a fewquick questions.
Question number one what areyou into right now, and this
could be like a hobby orsomething, for me it's gardening
right now, that you just can'tget enough of?
Denise Renee (19:43):
Nails.
Oh, or is it the ring?
Is it the jewelry?
Which one?
Which one?
Well I ell don't want to go tooclose because I'm kind of in
between and I have some makeupon one nail right here, but I do
, I'm into doing my own nailsnail.
Oh, you did that yourself?
Yeah, don't look too closely, because I I was
(20:04):
taking off one, uh one layer andI'm about to repaint them, so I
can't well if I go too close,but yeah, I love doing my nails
Sonja Crystal Williams (20:14):
Wow, okay, so nail design has become
a thing for you.
Very, very cool, okay.
Another question, and I like toask this question sometimes
when I am doing interviews withother parents, moms, dads,
everything.
How do you strike the balance?
Because you've been in businessfor yourself for a while,
you've got a child.
Well, maybe not a little kidanymore, but no, you've got a
(20:44):
child.
Well, maybe not not a littlekid anymore, but 13 years ago,
yes so, but still in the house,yeah, how do you strike the
balance?
Because you got, you know,sports and after-school events
and drop-offs and pickups andall of that.
What's been helpful to you interms of striking the balance?
Denise Renee (21:00):
First of all, I'm going to say something a little
controversial.
Okay, I don't believe inbalance, because I don't think
that, to me, the term balanceassumes that everything has an
equal weight.
And I don't think thateverything has an equal weight
and I don't think thateverything has an equal weight
all at the same time.
I think things are important,but I think in this moment, this
(21:24):
is a priority.
In this moment, that is apriority.
So I really say, okay, you knowwhat?
What's important this week?
What's important today?
What do I need to focus on now?
So for me, it's more likejuggling and it's like just
making sure, you know, the ballsstay in the air.
Sometimes I drop the ball.
(21:44):
Yeah, maybe only one or twoballs get dropped, I don't know.
But so I look at it more likejuggling.
I'll say this, I'm no longertogether with my former partner,
my son's father.
So we actually are in -- I don'tknow, and you know he has his
(22:05):
days, I have my days.
You know we split our son inthe middle, but no like..
.
And even if it's like, if it'shis day, then he's like hey, I
got something going on, can youpick up the slack?
Or vice versa.
So, number one, I have aparenting partner.
So, yes, you know, there's that.
Number two, I have days when myson's not here, so it gives me
(22:28):
an opportunity to focus ondifferent things.
When he's here, my prioritiesare a little bit different.
When he's not here, I'm like,no, I'm not.
You little bit different.
When he's not here, I'm like,no, I'm not, um, I'm just
worried.
You're like, oh, he's not here,wait, I can see him later.
They're getting more stuff done, um, but uh, but yeah.
So really just having parents,uh, having partnership in
(22:53):
parenting, having a little tinyvillage.
Sonja Crystal Williams (22:56):
Thank you for sharing.
One more final question, andthis is kind of on the business
tip what have you enjoyed mostabout being an entrepreneur?
Denise Renee (23:07):
That's a good question, or it could be a
couple of things.
So I feel like I'm you know,I'm a brand new entrepreneur
because I literally relaunched.
I launched a completelydifferent brand last year, but I
feel like I have experience inthat I will have experience.
Sonja Crystal Williams (23:29):
Right.
Denise Renee (23:29):
I've got content.
But I also I'm like okay, youknow, I have the experience of
saying, okay, this is whatworked well, this was what
didn't work well, this is what Iwant to do differently, this is
how I want to move forward.
So, like I said earlier, Idon't really want to get too
involved in like done- for- youprojects, which is how I kind of
(23:51):
ran my business before.
So now I'm like I'm thecoaching girl, I will help you,
let me come alongside of youwhile you do the right.
And for those kind of high-touch services, I had to
re-price and be like okay, ifI'm going to do this for you, if
you want to hire me to do thisfor you, it's just not going to
(24:13):
be cheap and that's fine.
If I don't get those clients,I'm totally fine, because I've
got other things to do and Ialso had to create margin for
myself and I'm like you knowwhat?
What I'm missing is my owncreativity, because I also write
short stories and I haven'tpublished anything.
So, being able to create marginto not only take care of other
(24:35):
people but take care of me inthe process, and my creative.
What I want to get done.
Yeah, so important to me.
So I think the beauty aboutthat was the long circuit to the
answer.
I think the beauty of being anentrepreneur is that you get to
shape what you want to shape.
You get to pivot.
(24:56):
When you want to pivot, you getto say you know what, I don't
want to do this anymore, I wantto do something completely
different.
Who knows, in a year or two Imight be like, you know what I'm
going to be a nail contentcreator from now on.
Sonja Crystal Williams (25:07):
Who knows?
Denise Renee (25:09):
But I think that is the beauty of
entrepreneurship, it does nothave to look one way.
It does not have to look likesomebody else's journey.
Take your time, look one way.
Do what you got to do, but doit because you love it.
Sonja Crystal Williams (25:21):
Yeah, love it.
Thank you so much for beinghere, Denise Renee.
So we're going to post Denise'sinformation.
You can find that available inour description.
If you'd like to follow her,get in touch and, Denise, you
have a freebie for listenersright?
Denise Renee (25:35):
Yes, I do so.
If you are that coach, thatconsultant, that medical
professional, that contentcreator, that educator who is
looking to take your expertise,you want to put it into a book.
You know that you want to getmore speaking engagements and
(25:56):
more opportunities and you knowthat that book is that hurdle
that you just got to get over.
But just like, how do I getstarted?
Where do I get started?
What do I do and what werethose three book types that we
talked about?
I have put together somethingthat, I don't know, I've never
really seen anybody do like.
(26:16):
I have the typical freebiewhere you just go, you drop your
name, you download the PDF andthen it sits there and collects
digital dust.
I don't want that for you.
I actually want to help youthink through what you need to
think through and get startedwriting your book.
So I have what I call myVirtual Book Writing Coaching
Session.
(26:36):
It is credit card free, youdon't need a credit card but it
will require your time and yourattention and if you do the work
, you will be able to startwriting.
You'll come out of it knowingwhat to do to get started
writing your book.
So you can get more info aboutthat at writingwithdeniserenee.
(26:57):
com/ free coaching.
Real help, no BS, just gettingyou started writing your book,
no credit card required.
Sonja Crystal Williams (27:10):
Perfect.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you everyone forlistening.
Until next time we'll see youthen.
Denise Renee (27:20):
Thank you for having me.
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