March 12, 2025 • 21 mins
On this episode of 1000 Ways to Market Your Business, Samantha Scott, APR, is joined by Kinfay Moroti, Storytelling Strategist at Better Together.
Learn why storytelling is crucial for both businesses and nonprofits, how to effectively communicate your "why," and tips on integrating emotion into your marketing strategy. This episode covers everything from creating an engaging brand narrative to the importance of consistent visual storytelling and measuring campaign success.
Have a question or feedback to share? Visit www.getpushing.com or one of our many social media channels. We look forward to hearing from you.
#marketing #business #communication #strategy
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Hi everybody, I'm SamanthaScott, APR.
Welcome to another edition of1000 Ways to Market Your
Business.
I am so excited to kick offseason three with my good
friend, Kinfay.
Samantha Scott.
Oh, it's good to be here.
Thank you for giving me theopportunity to talk
storytelling, which is cool.
I'm a storytelling strategist.
That's something that I love todo.
(00:27):
Done that for about 25 to 30years.
For about 20 of those years innewspapers.
Did storytelling around theworld in different themes and
different formats (00:36):
war, political conventions, dustups
locally, school board meetings,but then also did a lot of
socially impactful work, spenttime in the foster care system,
capturing moments, unpackingsome of the challenges that
families face and things of thatnature.
After that, I started HopefulImages, which was an initiative
(00:59):
designed exclusively to helpnonprofits share their story
with the documentary feel to it.
Worked with a lot of nonprofitsin Southwest Florida and
throughout the state.
And one of the nonprofits thatkept me busy was Better
Together.
They help keep children out offoster care, I grew up in foster
(01:20):
care.
So this past April, I joinedthem full time as a storytelling
strategist.
And so, just really excited todo that, to dedicate myself to
one organization and see howthat storytelling consistently
has an impact.
So, excited to be here, but thegreatest person on the planet is
(01:40):
most definitely Samantha Scott.
Hardly, hardly, but I'm so, sodelighted that you're here.
I've been looking forward tothis because when we came up
with this idea of storytelling,I think it's just become such a
buzzword, and I want to unpackwhat that means, and why it's
valuable, and how businesses andnonprofits can use that, and I
couldn't think of anybody betterthan the one and only Kinfay to
do that.
There we go.
(02:00):
So, I want to dive into this.
So, what does storytelling meanfor an organization that could
be a nonprofit or a business?
What does that mean if we'retrying to define that?
Well, let's break it down thisway.
Every organization, everybusiness, every nonprofit, your
existence itself began with astory.
And so to not continue to sharethat story, as you do business,
(02:26):
as you grow, it'sunconscionable.
Like, in order for you to growas an individual, you share your
story.
In order for your business togrow, for your organization to
grow, lead with your story.
It's the most important thingthat you can do.
You gotta get that story outthere so people can know what
(02:49):
you're doing.
Would you say, that's almostlike saying, it's communicating
your why.
Yes, it is communicating yourwhy, but your story evolves.
True.
So your why evolves, you see.
So when you are sharing yourwhy, you share it as
authentically as you can withthe messaging that is authentic.
(03:10):
That's not drawn from cliches.
Once you identify what yourstory is, then that's going to
inform your why.
It's kind of like what comesfirst?
A vision or the mission?
Like, which comes first?
Now, I think the vision informsyour mission.
I would agree.
Your story is forever informingyour vision.
(03:33):
And that, in turn, informs whatyou actually do.
So, prioritizing your story andmaking sure that it's clear.
And I love how you explain that,that it evolves, right?
Your story is kind of thebeginning, the seed of
everything that goes forward,but then it grows and changes
like a plant grows and changesand evolves.
(03:55):
I love that.
So let's talk about some of theways that you can share that
story and do that storytelling.
I mean, you are a master atdoing that through visual, but
also you do that with words.
I mean, your posts are beautifuland convey such emotion.
How can businesses andorganizations effectively do
that?
Okay.
Well, I think the first thingthat an organization can do is
(04:16):
after you have like abrainstorming session, you might
say, where every idea is okay.
There's no judgment going on.
And once you get that story,once you find out what your
story is and you find out howyou want to convey it.
Then you begin to do that andthat can take on many, many
forms.
And it should.
(04:36):
It should be multidisciplinary.
Oh gosh, yes.
It has to be.
It has to be.
So let's get some truths outthere.
Yeah.
We are an aesthetically,visually driven community,
world, society.
There are a lot of visualscompeting for the eye's
attention and for yourattention.
You have to figure out how toinsert your story in that space
(05:00):
so it can get attention.
Yeah.
So how do you do that?
First you do that if I weredoing it you do that with a logo
or branding that peakscuriosity.
Doesn't answer all of thequestions about what you do.
Messaging is the second thing,the actual words that you put
(05:23):
out there.
That branding, the logo, themessaging is one of the first
entry points that customers orsupporters are going to have to
your organization or to yourbrand.
You follow that up withhumanity.
I love that.
You follow that up withhumanity.
(05:43):
Whenever you can, includemoments of people living your
story, of people affected byyour story.
You share those moments inpictures and in videos as often
and as strategically as you can.
(06:04):
Just don't throw a bunch ofpictures up there.
Spend a little money.
Hire a documentary storytellerto come and find out how you can
visually share that story and beconsistent with sharing visually
the impact of your work withyour audience.
(06:25):
Then, sure, you do that inpictures, you do that in videos.
But here's another way you shareyour story.
It's when you or your employeesor your teammates are out.
They should have messagingalmost like in their pocket.
It's going back to the elevatorpitch.
Yes.
If you've only got three secondsto get your message across, you
(06:47):
have to be able to do thatsuccinctly.
Yes.
Exactly.
Have your employees, your team,don't give them scripts, but
make sure that they have somemessaging that they can always
pull out and use.
And here's the last thing abouthow you do it.
Your exuberance is magic.
When you share that story, shareit with as much exuberance as
(07:11):
you can find.
Passion.
Yes.
Yes.
If you're having a bad daybefore you start to share that
story, go to your car and take afive minute nap, right?
Do a power pose.
Yeah, exactly.
To stop that negative energyfrom infecting the sharing of
your story.
I think you touched on somereally key points that I want to
(07:31):
elaborate on.
The strategy part I think issuper important.
So our core is really strategy,testing, measuring and really
getting at the story and whatyou're trying to accomplish and
you gave some really fantasticexamples from a nonprofit
perspective.
I tie that to a for profit or abusiness perspective.
Oh, yes, they apply everywhere.
Absolutely.
And so making sure you'restrategic about your story and
(07:52):
your differentiators.
How you can communicate thatreally really clearly.
You know, we do a lot of thatwith Angelina's Ristorante, for
example.
They're a fine diningestablishment.
They're Italian, but they're notlike an Olive Garden or somebody
else.
And we're really, really clearabout what their differentiators
are in their story.
Why was this created?
What are they trying toaccomplish?
How do they want to make youfeel?
Exactly.
And I think that is so powerfulas you talk about images and
(08:13):
video and then leading into thepeople, right?
And we do a lot of testing andmeasuring.
That's the other side of ourhouse.
And so a lot of that can beproven through the data that
we're seeing.
When we share images, and I'lljust use even our company, for
example, images or photos of ourteam, the engagement is
substantially higher than thebest post we could come up with,
with the most tips on how to doeverything under the sun, right?
(08:36):
Like, we're giving away the farmand all the strategy, but if I
share a picture of a teammember, and celebrate them, even
if it's just something fun, theengagement is so much higher and
it's people.
You know, I like to say thatsocial media was started because
it was meant to be social.
Oh, that's good.
Right.
Social is social.
It's pretty basic, butbusinesses have gotten hold of
(08:56):
it.
And now they just make it sales,sales, sales.
And they've lost that socialconnection.
And it's so, so incrediblyimportant.
So I agree on all fronts there.
I think you're exactly rightabout that.
And here's a cool tip aboutstories.
If you are a business and youhave your business page and you
share your stories on socialmedia.
(09:19):
That's an algorithm that's notgoing to be prioritized in a lot
of personal feeds.
So if you can get your team toshare, if businesses especially,
can get their team to sharetheir stories on their personal
pages.
Don't make it mandatory, butsay,"Hey, would you mind doing
it?" You see, then that is goingto put that story in a better
(09:41):
algorithm for more people tosee.
Absolutely.
More reach.
Exactly.
Yes.
All right.
I just wanted to get that outthere.
Absolutely.
And we've talked about that onthis podcast before, that it's
not an if you build it, theywill come with organic content.
And you have to use all of yourtools at your disposal.
That is a great example of one.
So I want to talk about maybe anexample of a really successful
campaign that did storytellingwell.
(10:03):
I'll start with one because I'vepeppered you with questions
already.
So the first one that comes tomind for me is Dove, and they
did a really fantastic campaignthat was called the Self Esteem
Project.
And I don't know if you'refamiliar with that, but it was
really, really well done, andbasically showed real life
people.
And you think of self esteem andyou think of deodorant or other
body products, maybe don't gotogether, but they did such a
(10:23):
really great job of leveragingstorytelling in that campaign
that felt people, made peoplefeel like rather they were
connected to it.
I can see myself in that.
I've experienced that particularthing.
They've done a number of othercampaigns that I thought were
really compelling.
I don't know if you're familiarwith that or if you've got one
maybe that you can share thatyou thought a company did a
really, really great job withstorytelling.
I have to start with BetterTogether, and not because I'm
(10:46):
contractually employed oranything like that.
But when I began Hopeful Images,they were one of my very first
clients, and Megan Rose boughtinto the idea immediately about
having a documentary storytellerworking with them and sharing
(11:07):
their work.
I didn't have to sell hard.
Right.
You know, she had the vision.
She got it right away.
So one of the very first storieswe did was about Jack and
Crystal, a mother who was tryingto keep her son out of foster
care.
And we followed them for sixmonths and we began sharing that
(11:29):
story on my social media page,which had a really good
following.
And then as we shared that storymore and more and more, all of a
sudden the community became moreand more aware of Better
Together.
Who's Better Together?
What's Better Together allabout?
Did you see the story about Jackand Crystal?
Now the Fort Myers PoliceDepartment is buying in.
(11:51):
Other nonprofits are buying in.
But it also galvanized theBetter Together staff because
they see,"Oh, wow." You knowwhat I mean?
We now are seeing our impact.
Yeah.
We're not working in a vacuum.
Others are part of it.
Yes.
People are seeing it.
And then Megan continued toallow me to do storytelling for
her and for the past four tofive years, you know,
(12:15):
storytelling for Better Togetheris constantly elevating them and
then also making people moreaware of what they do.
It blossomed into, after, here'sa good example, after Hurricane
Ian.
I normally go out and capturemoments of underserved
communities that were impactedby there.
(12:36):
Megan Rose,"hey, we're goingwith you." Yeah.
Wherever you go and findstories, that's where we're
going.
It's a beautiful symbioticrelationship.
Exactly.
Because they could help thepeople in the moment.
Exactly, for sure.
I love it.
I went, they followed, sometimesthey found a neighborhood, I
followed, we worked, we gotthose stories out there all the
time.
(12:57):
They were documentary, they werereal, and that not only uplifted
the community, but it gave us agood financial boost that we
could continue to do that work.
And so the work that I've donewith them, the stories that we
share, they are constantly citedby donors.
(13:17):
That's awesome.
All of this, all the greatexamples, thank you, are really
shining a light on emotion.
Of course.
And emotion is such anincredible part of marketing.
Whether you are working for agym and the emotion is you want
people to feel pumped up andwant to go.
Right.
Or if you're in an emotion of Ineed donations, so you're trying
to pull on heartstrings.
But emotion motivates people.
(13:39):
So we tie that back tomarketing.
How can you incorporate emotionand storytelling for your
organization, and I think you'vegiven some really awesome
examples.
Oh, through pictures and videos.
That's it.
Yeah, you know, logos andbranding can evoke emotion.
And interest, but not the same.
But not like a documentarymoment captured.
Nothing, nothing can beat that.
(14:00):
Nothing can beat that.
We've talked a lot about kind ofthe softer side, the concept of
it, the performance of it, and Iwant to just tie that back to
application for people that arelistening or watching.
So one of the ways you can dothat is looking at what's
performing, right?
So we look at performancereports and we say which images,
which video are performing best,what's getting the most
engagement, making sure thatyou're paying attention to that.
(14:21):
Because we can create reallypowerful things and we think
they're going to work and someperform better than others like
your story of Crystal and Jackthat performed incredibly well,
right?
So I would just say, marry theconcepts and the creative with
the other side of making surethat we're testing how is this
performing, is this working, andthen leverage that so you can
create more really, really greatcontent.
I think it's a really powerfulway of just making sure that
(14:44):
both sides are working togetherand you're monitoring as you go
forward.
I'd also say consistency.
So stylistically, you have avery specific style, the way
that you capture images, whichis incredible.
So if you're doing it on yourown, or if you hire a different
kind of documentaryvideographer, photographer, make
sure that whatever you'resharing is consistent across the
board.
If you have, you know, Xphotographer do this, and then
(15:05):
you have Y photographer, and itfeels very disjointed, that's
going to hurt your brand.
Right.
So making sure that'sconsistent.
Oh yeah, most definitely.
I like to say this, you can'thave a room full of Frank Lloyd
Wright's or Frida Kahlo's orVirginia Woolf's, right?
All these creatives.
You gotta have some BenjaminFranklin's in there, right?
I'm Ben.
You gotta have some practicalityto it.
(15:28):
So you're exactly right.
An organization should not getcaught up in the abstract story,
right?
You do have to measure how thatstory is hitting.
Right.
How is it landing?
Right?
And then you have to drop yourego, creative.
Yes.
And change your story or changethe way you're telling it.
(15:50):
Yes.
In order to have a greaterimpact.
I have to put my ego aside andfollow the numbers.
And that's a great example ofpaying attention to what your
audience is interested in.
Exactly.
And I think that's also we haveto take a step back even as
marketers and creatives to say,I'm not necessarily marketing to
myself.
I'm not trying to tell the storyto myself.
(16:11):
But who am I trying to motivate?
And how can I best do that?
A good friend of mine namedErica de Leon, she taught me
this phrase that I use when I amthinking about metrics or when
I'm thinking about how to sharethe story, what's the intended
outcome?
Yes.
What do I want this piece ofcontent to create?
(16:34):
What do I want it to do?
I'm not going to be able tocontrol how it lands on
everybody.
Right.
But what's the intended outcomethat I'm looking for?
I'm open to a more profitable ora more outstanding outcome than
what I'm thinking, but I do havean outcome in mind.
Yes.
I do have an idea of where Iwould like for it to land in a
(16:59):
community, with humanity, right?
So I use that question a lotwhen I am actually putting
together my stories.
What's the intended outcome?
If I have that in mind, then Ican craft that story to where it
satisfies the Frank Lloyd Wrightin me, but then also the
Benjamin Franklin in me.
(17:20):
You see?
Absolutely.
The very practical side of it,because businesses, you have to
pay bills.
I agree.
We start our relationship withany of our partners by asking
the question, what does successlook like to you?
Exactly.
At the end of this engagement orin three months or six months,
whatever those milestones are,what does success look like?
Because you're exactly right.
If you don't know where you'regoing, you never know if you get
there.
I do want to say this, that'svery important is, metrics, your
(17:44):
numbers, the engagement, notonly do they let you know what's
working, they also let you knowif how you are telling that
story is working.
And you'll be able to see thatplay out consistently when you
put out that particular style ofstory.
(18:05):
So if videos are going reallygood in this season, double down
on the videos.
Full steam ahead, exactly.
Right, and if it's not goingpretty good, then you might want
to come back with a picturestory, you see, or you might
want to come back with agraphic.
Yes.
I think that's important toremember, too.
Yeah, absolutely.
We look at that, so it's whattype of content.
Is it a link?
(18:25):
Is it a photo?
Is it a video?
And then, what type?
So, stylistically, was itdifferent or the same?
But then also, which channel?
And then, what time of day?
What day of the week?
I mean, you can get as granularas you want.
And I would just marry that bysaying, just because one doesn't
work doesn't mean you shouldscrap it all together.
Oh, no.
You know, do it for a littlewhile, give it some runway to
see how it goes, and then youcan make an adjustment.
(18:46):
It's not a one size fits all.
No.
You can use data to informdecisions.
Right.
But it should not ruleeverything.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
This has been so, so, soincredible, and I am really,
really grateful.
Kinfay thank you so very muchfor joining us.
Oh, thank you.
You know, whenever I get achance to talk about stories, I
think it's really great.
And I'm just going to encourageeverybody out there to like, to
(19:07):
get your teams together.
And this applies to businesses,not just nonprofits.
You see, I think what I doapplies to everybody, but get
your team together and get awhiteboard and empower them to
share their ideas.
Ask your employees.
Yeah.
Ask your business partnersWhat's our story?
What's our story?
Let me just wrap this up beforeI finish.
(19:27):
Let me say this.
It's very important you tellyour story in all of these ways.
That's very important.
What's more important is thatyou literally know what story
you are telling, not the storyyou are intending to tell.
That's totally different.
(19:49):
The story that you intend totell is not the story that you
actually tell.
And you have to get as close tothe intended story as you can
with the actual literal visualstory you put out into the
world.
That story 99 percent of thetime looks vastly different than
(20:13):
the internal story that you'retelling.
So you must be able to literallylook at your literal messaging
and say, what am I actuallysaying in this post, what I'm
actually saying in this tagline.
That is so important because youcannot put your intention out
(20:39):
there.
You have to have someone in yourorganization that has the
ability to see.
And the courage to tell theleadership what you are actually
saying.
If you can nail that.
Then your story will justabsolutely be true.
(21:00):
I think you're right, because asbusiness owners, we can get
really caught up.
And even, you know, marketingleaders, you pour so much into
it, you care about what you'redoing, that you can become a
little bit blind.
I would compare that to, or kindof translate that as making sure
your mind is always on thebenefit or the problem you're
solving for the end user, versuswhat you're trying to sell.
(21:21):
That is just a really, reallygreat point.
Thank you so much, Kinfay.
Oh, yeah, it was great.
It was fun.
Thank you for tuning in toanother episode of 1000 Ways to
Market Your Business.
If you've got questions, pleasefeel free to comment.
And we look forward to the nextone.
Stay tuned.
Hi everybody, I'm SamanthaScott, APR.
Welcome to another edition of1000 Ways to Market Your
Business.
I am so excited to kick offseason three with my good
friend, Kinfay.
Samantha Scott.
Oh, it's good to be here.
Thank you for giving me theopportunity to talk
storytelling, which is cool.
I'm a storytelling strategist.
That's something that I love todo.
(00:27):
Done that for about 25 to 30years.
For about 20 of those years innewspapers.
Did storytelling around theworld in different themes and
different formats (00:36):
war, political conventions, dustups
locally, school board meetings,but then also did a lot of
socially impactful work, spenttime in the foster care system,
capturing moments, unpackingsome of the challenges that
families face and things of thatnature.
After that, I started HopefulImages, which was an initiative
(00:59):
designed exclusively to helpnonprofits share their story
with the documentary feel to it.
Worked with a lot of nonprofitsin Southwest Florida and
throughout the state.
And one of the nonprofits thatkept me busy was Better
Together.
They help keep children out offoster care, I grew up in foster
(01:20):
care.
So this past April, I joinedthem full time as a storytelling
strategist.
And so, just really excited todo that, to dedicate myself to
one organization and see howthat storytelling consistently
has an impact.
So, excited to be here, but thegreatest person on the planet is
(01:40):
most definitely Samantha Scott.
Hardly, hardly, but I'm so, sodelighted that you're here.
I've been looking forward tothis because when we came up
with this idea of storytelling,I think it's just become such a
buzzword, and I want to unpackwhat that means, and why it's
valuable, and how businesses andnonprofits can use that, and I
couldn't think of anybody betterthan the one and only Kinfay to
do that.
There we go.
(02:00):
So, I want to dive into this.
So, what does storytelling meanfor an organization that could
be a nonprofit or a business?
What does that mean if we'retrying to define that?
Well, let's break it down thisway.
Every organization, everybusiness, every nonprofit, your
existence itself began with astory.
And so to not continue to sharethat story, as you do business,
(02:26):
as you grow, it'sunconscionable.
Like, in order for you to growas an individual, you share your
story.
In order for your business togrow, for your organization to
grow, lead with your story.
It's the most important thingthat you can do.
You gotta get that story outthere so people can know what
(02:49):
you're doing.
Would you say, that's almostlike saying, it's communicating
your why.
Yes, it is communicating yourwhy, but your story evolves.
True.
So your why evolves, you see.
So when you are sharing yourwhy, you share it as
authentically as you can withthe messaging that is authentic.
(03:10):
That's not drawn from cliches.
Once you identify what yourstory is, then that's going to
inform your why.
It's kind of like what comesfirst?
A vision or the mission?
Like, which comes first?
Now, I think the vision informsyour mission.
I would agree.
Your story is forever informingyour vision.
(03:33):
And that, in turn, informs whatyou actually do.
So, prioritizing your story andmaking sure that it's clear.
And I love how you explain that,that it evolves, right?
Your story is kind of thebeginning, the seed of
everything that goes forward,but then it grows and changes
like a plant grows and changesand evolves.
(03:55):
I love that.
So let's talk about some of theways that you can share that
story and do that storytelling.
I mean, you are a master atdoing that through visual, but
also you do that with words.
I mean, your posts are beautifuland convey such emotion.
How can businesses andorganizations effectively do
that?
Okay.
Well, I think the first thingthat an organization can do is
(04:16):
after you have like abrainstorming session, you might
say, where every idea is okay.
There's no judgment going on.
And once you get that story,once you find out what your
story is and you find out howyou want to convey it.
Then you begin to do that andthat can take on many, many
forms.
And it should.
(04:36):
It should be multidisciplinary.
Oh gosh, yes.
It has to be.
It has to be.
So let's get some truths outthere.
Yeah.
We are an aesthetically,visually driven community,
world, society.
There are a lot of visualscompeting for the eye's
attention and for yourattention.
You have to figure out how toinsert your story in that space
(05:00):
so it can get attention.
Yeah.
So how do you do that?
First you do that if I weredoing it you do that with a logo
or branding that peakscuriosity.
Doesn't answer all of thequestions about what you do.
Messaging is the second thing,the actual words that you put
(05:23):
out there.
That branding, the logo, themessaging is one of the first
entry points that customers orsupporters are going to have to
your organization or to yourbrand.
You follow that up withhumanity.
I love that.
You follow that up withhumanity.
(05:43):
Whenever you can, includemoments of people living your
story, of people affected byyour story.
You share those moments inpictures and in videos as often
and as strategically as you can.
(06:04):
Just don't throw a bunch ofpictures up there.
Spend a little money.
Hire a documentary storytellerto come and find out how you can
visually share that story and beconsistent with sharing visually
the impact of your work withyour audience.
(06:25):
Then, sure, you do that inpictures, you do that in videos.
But here's another way you shareyour story.
It's when you or your employeesor your teammates are out.
They should have messagingalmost like in their pocket.
It's going back to the elevatorpitch.
Yes.
If you've only got three secondsto get your message across, you
(06:47):
have to be able to do thatsuccinctly.
Yes.
Exactly.
Have your employees, your team,don't give them scripts, but
make sure that they have somemessaging that they can always
pull out and use.
And here's the last thing abouthow you do it.
Your exuberance is magic.
When you share that story, shareit with as much exuberance as
(07:11):
you can find.
Passion.
Yes.
Yes.
If you're having a bad daybefore you start to share that
story, go to your car and take afive minute nap, right?
Do a power pose.
Yeah, exactly.
To stop that negative energyfrom infecting the sharing of
your story.
I think you touched on somereally key points that I want to
(07:31):
elaborate on.
The strategy part I think issuper important.
So our core is really strategy,testing, measuring and really
getting at the story and whatyou're trying to accomplish and
you gave some really fantasticexamples from a nonprofit
perspective.
I tie that to a for profit or abusiness perspective.
Oh, yes, they apply everywhere.
Absolutely.
And so making sure you'restrategic about your story and
(07:52):
your differentiators.
How you can communicate thatreally really clearly.
You know, we do a lot of thatwith Angelina's Ristorante, for
example.
They're a fine diningestablishment.
They're Italian, but they're notlike an Olive Garden or somebody
else.
And we're really, really clearabout what their differentiators
are in their story.
Why was this created?
What are they trying toaccomplish?
How do they want to make youfeel?
Exactly.
And I think that is so powerfulas you talk about images and
(08:13):
video and then leading into thepeople, right?
And we do a lot of testing andmeasuring.
That's the other side of ourhouse.
And so a lot of that can beproven through the data that
we're seeing.
When we share images, and I'lljust use even our company, for
example, images or photos of ourteam, the engagement is
substantially higher than thebest post we could come up with,
with the most tips on how to doeverything under the sun, right?
(08:36):
Like, we're giving away the farmand all the strategy, but if I
share a picture of a teammember, and celebrate them, even
if it's just something fun, theengagement is so much higher and
it's people.
You know, I like to say thatsocial media was started because
it was meant to be social.
Oh, that's good.
Right.
Social is social.
It's pretty basic, butbusinesses have gotten hold of
(08:56):
it.
And now they just make it sales,sales, sales.
And they've lost that socialconnection.
And it's so, so incrediblyimportant.
So I agree on all fronts there.
I think you're exactly rightabout that.
And here's a cool tip aboutstories.
If you are a business and youhave your business page and you
share your stories on socialmedia.
(09:19):
That's an algorithm that's notgoing to be prioritized in a lot
of personal feeds.
So if you can get your team toshare, if businesses especially,
can get their team to sharetheir stories on their personal
pages.
Don't make it mandatory, butsay,"Hey, would you mind doing
it?" You see, then that is goingto put that story in a better
(09:41):
algorithm for more people tosee.
Absolutely.
More reach.
Exactly.
Yes.
All right.
I just wanted to get that outthere.
Absolutely.
And we've talked about that onthis podcast before, that it's
not an if you build it, theywill come with organic content.
And you have to use all of yourtools at your disposal.
That is a great example of one.
So I want to talk about maybe anexample of a really successful
campaign that did storytellingwell.
(10:03):
I'll start with one because I'vepeppered you with questions
already.
So the first one that comes tomind for me is Dove, and they
did a really fantastic campaignthat was called the Self Esteem
Project.
And I don't know if you'refamiliar with that, but it was
really, really well done, andbasically showed real life
people.
And you think of self esteem andyou think of deodorant or other
body products, maybe don't gotogether, but they did such a
(10:23):
really great job of leveragingstorytelling in that campaign
that felt people, made peoplefeel like rather they were
connected to it.
I can see myself in that.
I've experienced that particularthing.
They've done a number of othercampaigns that I thought were
really compelling.
I don't know if you're familiarwith that or if you've got one
maybe that you can share thatyou thought a company did a
really, really great job withstorytelling.
I have to start with BetterTogether, and not because I'm
(10:46):
contractually employed oranything like that.
But when I began Hopeful Images,they were one of my very first
clients, and Megan Rose boughtinto the idea immediately about
having a documentary storytellerworking with them and sharing
(11:07):
their work.
I didn't have to sell hard.
Right.
You know, she had the vision.
She got it right away.
So one of the very first storieswe did was about Jack and
Crystal, a mother who was tryingto keep her son out of foster
care.
And we followed them for sixmonths and we began sharing that
(11:29):
story on my social media page,which had a really good
following.
And then as we shared that storymore and more and more, all of a
sudden the community became moreand more aware of Better
Together.
Who's Better Together?
What's Better Together allabout?
Did you see the story about Jackand Crystal?
Now the Fort Myers PoliceDepartment is buying in.
(11:51):
Other nonprofits are buying in.
But it also galvanized theBetter Together staff because
they see,"Oh, wow." You knowwhat I mean?
We now are seeing our impact.
Yeah.
We're not working in a vacuum.
Others are part of it.
Yes.
People are seeing it.
And then Megan continued toallow me to do storytelling for
her and for the past four tofive years, you know,
(12:15):
storytelling for Better Togetheris constantly elevating them and
then also making people moreaware of what they do.
It blossomed into, after, here'sa good example, after Hurricane
Ian.
I normally go out and capturemoments of underserved
communities that were impactedby there.
(12:36):
Megan Rose,"hey, we're goingwith you." Yeah.
Wherever you go and findstories, that's where we're
going.
It's a beautiful symbioticrelationship.
Exactly.
Because they could help thepeople in the moment.
Exactly, for sure.
I love it.
I went, they followed, sometimesthey found a neighborhood, I
followed, we worked, we gotthose stories out there all the
time.
(12:57):
They were documentary, they werereal, and that not only uplifted
the community, but it gave us agood financial boost that we
could continue to do that work.
And so the work that I've donewith them, the stories that we
share, they are constantly citedby donors.
(13:17):
That's awesome.
All of this, all the greatexamples, thank you, are really
shining a light on emotion.
Of course.
And emotion is such anincredible part of marketing.
Whether you are working for agym and the emotion is you want
people to feel pumped up andwant to go.
Right.
Or if you're in an emotion of Ineed donations, so you're trying
to pull on heartstrings.
But emotion motivates people.
(13:39):
So we tie that back tomarketing.
How can you incorporate emotionand storytelling for your
organization, and I think you'vegiven some really awesome
examples.
Oh, through pictures and videos.
That's it.
Yeah, you know, logos andbranding can evoke emotion.
And interest, but not the same.
But not like a documentarymoment captured.
Nothing, nothing can beat that.
(14:00):
Nothing can beat that.
We've talked a lot about kind ofthe softer side, the concept of
it, the performance of it, and Iwant to just tie that back to
application for people that arelistening or watching.
So one of the ways you can dothat is looking at what's
performing, right?
So we look at performancereports and we say which images,
which video are performing best,what's getting the most
engagement, making sure thatyou're paying attention to that.
(14:21):
Because we can create reallypowerful things and we think
they're going to work and someperform better than others like
your story of Crystal and Jackthat performed incredibly well,
right?
So I would just say, marry theconcepts and the creative with
the other side of making surethat we're testing how is this
performing, is this working, andthen leverage that so you can
create more really, really greatcontent.
I think it's a really powerfulway of just making sure that
(14:44):
both sides are working togetherand you're monitoring as you go
forward.
I'd also say consistency.
So stylistically, you have avery specific style, the way
that you capture images, whichis incredible.
So if you're doing it on yourown, or if you hire a different
kind of documentaryvideographer, photographer, make
sure that whatever you'resharing is consistent across the
board.
If you have, you know, Xphotographer do this, and then
(15:05):
you have Y photographer, and itfeels very disjointed, that's
going to hurt your brand.
Right.
So making sure that'sconsistent.
Oh yeah, most definitely.
I like to say this, you can'thave a room full of Frank Lloyd
Wright's or Frida Kahlo's orVirginia Woolf's, right?
All these creatives.
You gotta have some BenjaminFranklin's in there, right?
I'm Ben.
You gotta have some practicalityto it.
(15:28):
So you're exactly right.
An organization should not getcaught up in the abstract story,
right?
You do have to measure how thatstory is hitting.
Right.
How is it landing?
Right?
And then you have to drop yourego, creative.
Yes.
And change your story or changethe way you're telling it.
(15:50):
Yes.
In order to have a greaterimpact.
I have to put my ego aside andfollow the numbers.
And that's a great example ofpaying attention to what your
audience is interested in.
Exactly.
And I think that's also we haveto take a step back even as
marketers and creatives to say,I'm not necessarily marketing to
myself.
I'm not trying to tell the storyto myself.
(16:11):
But who am I trying to motivate?
And how can I best do that?
A good friend of mine namedErica de Leon, she taught me
this phrase that I use when I amthinking about metrics or when
I'm thinking about how to sharethe story, what's the intended
outcome?
Yes.
What do I want this piece ofcontent to create?
(16:34):
What do I want it to do?
I'm not going to be able tocontrol how it lands on
everybody.
Right.
But what's the intended outcomethat I'm looking for?
I'm open to a more profitable ora more outstanding outcome than
what I'm thinking, but I do havean outcome in mind.
Yes.
I do have an idea of where Iwould like for it to land in a
(16:59):
community, with humanity, right?
So I use that question a lotwhen I am actually putting
together my stories.
What's the intended outcome?
If I have that in mind, then Ican craft that story to where it
satisfies the Frank Lloyd Wrightin me, but then also the
Benjamin Franklin in me.
(17:20):
You see?
Absolutely.
The very practical side of it,because businesses, you have to
pay bills.
I agree.
We start our relationship withany of our partners by asking
the question, what does successlook like to you?
Exactly.
At the end of this engagement orin three months or six months,
whatever those milestones are,what does success look like?
Because you're exactly right.
If you don't know where you'regoing, you never know if you get
there.
I do want to say this, that'svery important is, metrics, your
(17:44):
numbers, the engagement, notonly do they let you know what's
working, they also let you knowif how you are telling that
story is working.
And you'll be able to see thatplay out consistently when you
put out that particular style ofstory.
(18:05):
So if videos are going reallygood in this season, double down
on the videos.
Full steam ahead, exactly.
Right, and if it's not goingpretty good, then you might want
to come back with a picturestory, you see, or you might
want to come back with agraphic.
Yes.
I think that's important toremember, too.
Yeah, absolutely.
We look at that, so it's whattype of content.
Is it a link?
(18:25):
Is it a photo?
Is it a video?
And then, what type?
So, stylistically, was itdifferent or the same?
But then also, which channel?
And then, what time of day?
What day of the week?
I mean, you can get as granularas you want.
And I would just marry that bysaying, just because one doesn't
work doesn't mean you shouldscrap it all together.
Oh, no.
You know, do it for a littlewhile, give it some runway to
see how it goes, and then youcan make an adjustment.
(18:46):
It's not a one size fits all.
No.
You can use data to informdecisions.
Right.
But it should not ruleeverything.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
This has been so, so, soincredible, and I am really,
really grateful.
Kinfay thank you so very muchfor joining us.
Oh, thank you.
You know, whenever I get achance to talk about stories, I
think it's really great.
And I'm just going to encourageeverybody out there to like, to
(19:07):
get your teams together.
And this applies to businesses,not just nonprofits.
You see, I think what I doapplies to everybody, but get
your team together and get awhiteboard and empower them to
share their ideas.
Ask your employees.
Yeah.
Ask your business partnersWhat's our story?
What's our story?
Let me just wrap this up beforeI finish.
(19:27):
Let me say this.
It's very important you tellyour story in all of these ways.
That's very important.
What's more important is thatyou literally know what story
you are telling, not the storyyou are intending to tell.
That's totally different.
(19:49):
The story that you intend totell is not the story that you
actually tell.
And you have to get as close tothe intended story as you can
with the actual literal visualstory you put out into the
world.
That story 99 percent of thetime looks vastly different than
(20:13):
the internal story that you'retelling.
So you must be able to literallylook at your literal messaging
and say, what am I actuallysaying in this post, what I'm
actually saying in this tagline.
That is so important because youcannot put your intention out
(20:39):
there.
You have to have someone in yourorganization that has the
ability to see.
And the courage to tell theleadership what you are actually
saying.
If you can nail that.
Then your story will justabsolutely be true.
(21:00):
I think you're right, because asbusiness owners, we can get
really caught up.
And even, you know, marketingleaders, you pour so much into
it, you care about what you'redoing, that you can become a
little bit blind.
I would compare that to, or kindof translate that as making sure
your mind is always on thebenefit or the problem you're
solving for the end user, versuswhat you're trying to sell.
(21:21):
That is just a really, reallygreat point.
Thank you so much, Kinfay.
Oh, yeah, it was great.
It was fun.
Thank you for tuning in toanother episode of 1000 Ways to
Market Your Business.
If you've got questions, pleasefeel free to comment.
And we look forward to the nextone.
Stay tuned.
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