September 4, 2024 • 18 mins
On this episode of 1000 Ways to Market Your Business, Samantha Scott, APR, is joined by Mark Gordon, Managing Editor of Business Observer and journalist for nearly 30 years.
The episode explores the evolution and future of public relations (PR) and media relations, offers practical tips for working with media, and shares insights into future trends in the PR industry.
Have a question or feedback to share? Visit www.getpushing.com or one of our many social media channels. We look forward to hearing from you.
#marketing #business #communication #strategy
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Samantha (00:05):
Hello, everybody.
Welcome to 1000 Ways to MarketYour Business.
I am Samantha Scott, APR,President of Pushing the
Envelope.
And today I am joined by MarkGordon, Managing Editor of
Business Observer and journalistfor nearly 30 years.
Mark, welcome.
Mark (00:18):
Thank you.
Thanks so much for having me.
I'm happy to be here and excitedto chat with you.
Samantha (00:22):
Yeah, I'm so excited.
We've had the pleasure ofworking together for some time
and I'm really, really excitedto pick your brain because today
I want to talk about the topicof public relations, media
relations, where that's going.
You are a perfect person to talkabout this with your experience,
nearly 30 years in journalism.
You know, I've been in businessfor a little over 20 years, but
different sides of the house.
Mark (00:42):
Yeah, certainly like a lot of industries, there's a lot of
those flashpoints of change,right?
And then you look at it andyou're like, okay, this is how
we do PR today.
Right?
Different than 10 years ago.
Samantha (00:52):
Oh my gosh, absolutely different than 10 years ago.
I do public speaking and speakat colleges and things from time
to time.
And I joke that we were aroundbefore social media and we had
to do PR before that.
And when they were still faxingand things like that, like, what
is a fax machine?
Mark (01:05):
Hard to believe I was with somebody the other day and we
were talking about, somethingcame up with his daughter trying
to get into college.
And he mentioned this person hasa great Rolodex.
And I looked at my 16 year oldson and I said, do you know what
a Rolodex is?
He said, yes, I don't think hedid.
And then he sort of fumbledaround.
He kind of did actually, he justdidn't really say, but yes, fax
(01:25):
machines, Rolodex, all that.
Samantha (01:26):
Yeah, yeah, it's a whole different world now.
It's really, really interestingand, you know, some good, some
bad, and I'm looking forward todigging into that.
So, let's start by how would youdefine public relations and as a
subset of that media relations?
Mark (01:40):
Yeah, it's a great way to start.
I define public relations, mediarelations as somebody who's
representing their client orinternally their company.
Right?
So it could be, you know,they're in a big corporation.
It doesn't have to be big interms of people, but just
they're inside the company orthey're outside the company,
like at your agency,representing the builder or
representing the developer orthe hospital or whatever.
(02:01):
Their job is to put forwardinformation in a most timely,
transparent way possible.
I think that's how I would lookat what PR and media relations
do.
Samantha (02:12):
Yeah I agree, and I think part of that too is just
representing the brand, theessence, and making sure that
you're forthright.
I love the transparency partthat you mentioned.
And I think also beingforthright, and communicating
clearly.
And public relations goes sobroad.
I mean, media relations, I thinkis what most people think of,
like, you know, publicity,things like that.
That's a key component becausewe're kind of working as
(02:34):
partners here on behalf of boththe public who need this
information as well as theorganizations that we're
communicating about.
But community relations fallsinto, that crisis communications
falls into that.
I mean, there's just so manyfacets and they all kind of end
up in some point intersectingwith media relations as well.
Mark (02:52):
They do.
You need somebody to tell yourstory.
And I've known a lot of peoplein your line of work over the
years, got to know you verywell, and I think it's sort of
that misunderstood thing in acompany where they think,"Oh, I
could just write the pressrelease myself." And there's
certainly tons of toolsavailable today, where if you're
just writing one press release,we just introduced a new
product, you can make anargument that you could do that
(03:13):
yourself.
I'm sure there's plenty of goodtools to do that, but a good PR
person, right, should be thestoryteller of that company.
I say all the time, like I lovethe window into somebody else's
life that I get as a reporter, Iget to meet these interesting
business owners.
And oftentimes I'll leave theinterview thinking,"man, if they
had a PR person, the story wouldhave been different." That
doesn't necessarily mean bad,but you know, they could have
(03:36):
used you to help them coach themthrough some things.
It's a lot more things than justwriting the
Samantha (03:41):
press release.
Absolutely.
People think that,"Oh, if Ibuild it, they will come," and
"well, if I put out the newsrelease, I'm going to get
coverage." We hear that so oftenfrom folks, and they've got a
great story to tell.
But either the release wasn'twell written or they didn't have
the media list.
You know, this is where therelationships come in.
And to your point, there's tonsof technology and systems now
that you can pay to have arelease distributed, and it'll
probably go to mostly the rightpeople.
(04:02):
But there's a difference betweenjust kind of putting it out
there and hoping somebody picksit up versus having that
relationship, being able to calland say,"Hey Mark, I've got this
client.
This is their story." And youand I often have done that where
it's like,"Okay, well this mightbe the angle I'm thinking," but
you might come at it from adifferent side, where like,"Oh,
I hadn't thought about it thatway." And framing it is just so
important, and, being on brand,and storytelling, like you've
said, and doing it in a numberof ways.
(04:25):
So, I have another question.
I've got lots of questionstoday.
So what do you think has beenthe most substantial change in
the last few years of PR?
And if you want to go back,maybe start at the beginning or
go in the middle or however youwant to do it.
Mark (04:38):
We're top of mind people, right?
And so AI and chatbots and allthat would certainly be on
there.
But I think the most substantialchange is, we just touched on a
little bit.
To me, it's like staffinglevels, and PR people doing more
more more and not doing some ofthe things that maybe they were
doing 10 or 15 years ago.
(04:59):
That's what I've noticed atleast from the reporter side.
Sometimes organizations that youthink they're definitely gonna
have a PR person for this, theydon't, or at least it's not
readily available.
And then when you get a hold ofthem, there's a disconnect, and
as a reporter, it's challengingto figure out who's the right
person to talk to.
That wasn't the case like 10years ago.
I feel like that's a prettysignificant change where you
(05:22):
don't have that access to peopleas much as you used to.
I think that would be onechange.
And then as we mentioned thedigitalization, I guess, of the
industry.
There's so many things you coulddo on artificial intelligence
programs.
That's really impacted it aswell.
Samantha (05:36):
Yeah.
So the first part, I think youbring up a really interesting
point, change in staffing androles and responsibilities.
I could even reflect on thatfrom dealing with media, right?
Especially with TV journalists,right?
You'd have the reporter comeout, a camera person come out,
you work with a producer.
Now you're working with oneperson who has to do all of
that, and they've got to getstuff on the internet.
They've got to do social media.
They're doing everything.
(05:57):
And PR is definitely feeling thepinch that way too, because now,
depending on the setup, you'vegot a PR person who has to be
able to effectively manage themedia, be a really exceptional
writer, they have to be able todo social media posts, do
community relations, knoweveryone, be everywhere all the
time, and respond like this.
Mark (06:17):
Yeah.
No, 100%.
You're right.
That certainly impacts it.
And it's funny, those things,right?
Each of those things are likespecialist
Samantha (06:23):
Yes
Mark (06:23):
things that used to be done, right?
There used to be the socialmedia person.
Now you're the social mediaperson.
And as these algorithms change,I mean, it's challenging and
difficult to keep up with.
It's hard to stay on top of allthese different trends and
things going on to be in frontof people.
Samantha (06:41):
It really is.
And, you know, to your point ofhaving to do all of those things
and I'll just explain, I like toshare knowledge, but also our
particular position andexpertise on our podcast.
I always say with a grain ofsalt, you can do it any which
way, but this is how we've beendoing it in our business for
some time is we really try to bevery specific, narrow and deep
in terms of who does what.
(07:02):
We work as a team.
So collectively, we're kind ofhaving to address this beast
that is this change in the waythat we work.
But we have team members who arededicated to just digital.
And we have team members thatare just PR.
And then we've got somebodythat's kind of looking at it
from a brand perspectiveoverall.
But we work together becausethere's no way for one person to
do all of those thingsexceptionally well.
And that's what we strive to do.
(07:24):
But I want to go to your pointabout AI and changes in
technology.
And I'm curious from yourperspective, Mark.
You know, AI, there's this hugediscussion around how do you
know what's genuine?
How do you fact check?
Are you using AI?
I'm just curious.
Let's talk about how you'reseeing that work.
Mark (07:40):
So we are not really at the Business Observer using AI
too much in terms of the finalproduct content.
We're using a little bit, Ithink, in our research.
Like everybody, we're cautious.
I say like everybody, like mostpeople, I think we're cautious,
especially in journalism, right?
You have this like, you know,personal touch thing.
I wrote a column, a leadershipcolumn a few weeks ago about a
(08:03):
guy who's started a nonprofit inTampa to help rescue American
citizens like caught in likedangerous world hotspots.
I interviewed him on Zoom and hewas in Lebanon actually I
thought it was really cool.
You could do an AI reporter, butyou wouldn't get the touch, the
feel that we had.
The other thing worth answeringis we had a company wide meeting
about AI.
And it was surprising, my editortold me all the young people in
(08:26):
the room that you think wouldhave totally embraced it,
they're like"no, we don't wantthis, we don't want to do it."
Samantha (08:31):
You know, it is interesting to see
generationally how this is goingto play out.
I mean, in anything there'salways early adopters, the
laggards, you know, the bellcurve kind of for adoption.
What you just said reallytouched on something for me.
You know, I'm accredited in PR,so I adhere to a code of ethics.
Just like in journalism, youadhere to a code of ethics.
And I think that is one reallycrucial thing that I think if we
(08:55):
aren't careful on both sides canget out of hand with the changes
in PR and it's just socritically important.
So, how do you see on this kindof tech side, social media and
online elements factoring intoPR, specifically media relations
in the future.
And I'll kind of start with alittle volley there, for
example, we follow journalistson Facebook, X, LinkedIn, et
(09:16):
cetera, and have found sometimesthat it's easier to connect with
them.
You talked about trying toconnect with the right points of
contact with businesses, butsometimes we've found that
that's easier to connect withjournalists because they are
overwhelmed with email orthey're not answering the phone.
Mark (09:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that could be an agething too.
LinkedIn is a good place for me.
I do connect with plenty ofpeople there, and that's been
good for me personally.
The newspaper itself, Facebookhas been relatively good for us.
A way that I've seen PR peopleuse it is to put stuff out there
that maybe media isn't pickingup, right?
So, they'll put the pressrelease out there, like, in a
(09:50):
story form, and that's unusual.
I think that's maybe the pastfew years.
I've seen more and more of that,and I kind of understand that
from their perspective.
Like, hey, we had this thing, wetried to pitch it, nobody bit,
nobody took it, so we're goingto put it on social media
ourselves, and then kind of seewhere it goes.
I think that's been somethingI've seen different.
Samantha (10:08):
Yeah.
That is an interesting way, andI think that's a great kind of
tip for listeners who arecurious about how they can
leverage PR.
Not everybody is interested orcan afford working with a firm,
and I love to give tips thatpeople can apply.
That's a great one is build yourmedia list.
There's tons of organizations,FPRA, which is the Florida
Public Relations Association,but there's also the PR Society
of America, PRSA.
(10:29):
Often if you're a member, youcan get a media list from them,
that's an inexpensive way, plusyou can network with others and
learn.
Plug, I'm a past president forFPRA, so love that organization.
But, yeah, I think that's oneway that you can build that.
But the other is, if you're notgetting the play, because you're
not getting media to take abite, well, you have earned
media, or owned rather, excuseme, that you can use.
So, put it out on your socialmedia channels, put it out on
(10:51):
your website, a blog, emailnewsletter, et cetera.
That's a great tip that peoplecan do on their own.
Mark (10:56):
And I guess I would add too we talked about in the
beginning about, you know, thevalue of PR.
And I feel like I'm not a PRperson, but that's also
something where you can accesssomebody like yourself to get a
strategy, right?
Is it just just putting it up onsocial media?
Or what is your strategy?
I've seen that a lot in PRwhere, what's your goal here?
Right.
We often say to BusinessObserver, think like a business
(11:18):
owner.
You're a business owner, right?
What do you expect from thisstory?
What are you going to learn?
What are you going to beinspired by?
What are you going to beinformed by?
So that's why I'm thinking,what's your strategy?
Is it just to throw it up onFacebook and get 82 likes and 15
shares, or is it marketpenetration.
You could go deeper with that Iguess is what I'm saying.
Samantha (11:37):
You are singing my song, Mark.
If you've ever listened to anyof our podcasts, read a blog,
ebook, anything strategy iseverything.
I always say that you got tostart with a plan because to
your point, is this a popularitycontest?
Am I just trying to get someeyeballs on this content?
That means nothing for yourbottom line.
Are you trying to get people totake action?
Do you want them to go to yourwebsite, reserve, call you?
(11:58):
What are you trying toaccomplish with this?
Absolutely.
Thank you.
Love that point.
And you know, I love BusinessObserver, I've been reading it
for quite some time.
I think you do a great job ofthat is looking at it from your
readers' perspective.
And I think that's a reallyimportant point for business
owners, PR professionals tothink about as well is it's not
about what, and I say this alot, it's not about what you're
(12:20):
trying to sell or what you'retrying to say.
It's about what your targetaudience needs or wants to hear.
So how can you position it in away that they're going to be
most receptive to that?
And that starts with strategyand knowing your audience.
So how would you being on themedia side of the house
recommend a PR professional or abusiness owner leverage PR for
their business?
And do you have any tips forworking with journalists,
(12:42):
reporters, editors like you?
Mark (12:44):
I think that the main tip I would say that we just touched
on, that it's more challenging,but it's relationship driven,
right?
That's the first step I wouldsay is build that relationship,
find that reporter.
You just said, know youraudience, know that this
publication caters to the thingthat you're doing.
Go find the publication thatspecializes in that, find the
reporter, get to know thatreporter.
I can't say the number of timesthat it's helped me as a
(13:05):
reporter understand the clientsbetter.
Your firm and I worked on this.
You guys had a client, anonprofit that we talked about
and I didn't fully reallyunderstand what the organization
did.
I felt comfortable calling yousaying,"Hey, I saw this press
release.
I don't really understand whatyou're doing.
Can you, you know, help me withthis like mission statement."
But that relationship I thinkis, is the first thing.
(13:26):
You have to be able to do that.
And the second thing is bepersistent.
There's that fine line, I'm onthese panels sometimes and
people ask like, how often?
I said, you know, you're sellingyour press release, so be
persistent.
You know, it doesn't mean.
Samantha (13:39):
Stalk you in a coffee shop and text you and email you.
Mark (13:43):
And look, that's a key part of this job, right?
You know, trying to interviewsomebody that maybe doesn't want
to be interviewed.
I balance that line.
How many times am I going toemail this person to say,"Hey,
is Mr.
So and so going to do theinterview?" The third tip I
always have is accessibility.
That doesn't mean 24/7.
Everybody has a life outside ofwork.
But I can't tell you the numberof times I've gotten press
releases, and in the upper righthand corner, for more
(14:06):
information, contact Jill.
And there's a number and anemail, and they don't email back
and they don't pick up thephone.
I'm talking over a period of dayand a half, two days, not, not
10 minutes.
Samantha (14:17):
Okay, so for any of our new college grads or people
entering the PR world, that islike lesson one: when media
calls, you answer.
That is always mission critical.
I even have that on my awaymessage if I'm out of town
that's like, if you are media orthis is an emergency, here's
what to do, because look, we getit.
Well, I shouldn't say wegenerally, I think in the PR
(14:38):
world, we should get this isthat you're on a deadline.
And we have to work together.
So if you need something, I haveto be able to get that to you.
Absolutely.
Mark (14:46):
And yeah, you said need something, you know, I should
say there's a fourth thing.
I tell our reporters this allthe time, and it's important, I
think, lesson from the mediaside.
Don't just treat PR people as,like, a phone call because you
need something.
You're allowed to call them andsay,"Hey, what's going on, tell
me about this, what's new?
I'm not writing a story, butlike what's happening?" It's
(15:08):
just like anything else,relationship building.
We all make choices about whowe're going to spend more time
with.
And some people you becomefriends with some more working.
That's okay.
But I think the relationship hasto be two sided.
It can't always be I need, need,need.
Samantha (15:21):
Yes, I agree, and I have counseled many people on
our team the same, right?
It's like, don't just look atjournalists as someone that's a
means to an end, right?
They're not a tool in thetoolbox for lack of a better
word.
Let's help them, right?
How can we help each other?
Often we'll send notes like,"Oh,I really liked this article,"
or,"Hey, I've got somebody onthis topic if you ever need it."
Not because I need somethingright now, but again, to your
(15:43):
point is like, let's just, let'swork together.
It's such a better relationship.
Mark (15:47):
Yes.
Samantha (15:48):
Love it.
Okay.
So look in your crystal ball.
What does PR look like in thenext 30 years?
And how might that differ?
Mark (15:57):
30 years.
Samantha (15:58):
I thought, you know, you've been there for 30, what's
coming up in the next 30.
Mark (16:01):
I like it.
I like it.
I think the big difference isgoing to be all the technology
that we talked about.
What shape it's gonna take, I'mnot sure, but there's definitely
gonna be a lot moredigitalization of getting that
message across, getting PRacross, I think, less and less
people.
I mean, we touched on it alittle bit.
I think the devaluing of thatside of it.
Right.
I mean, again, I've talked topeople in your position where
(16:22):
they go to companies andcompanies are like, well, why do
I need you, I can just do thismyself.
But you wouldn't do that with aCPA firm, right?
If you're not an accountant.
Samantha (16:28):
Can I, okay.
I recorded this, so I'm justgoing to play that on loop.
Mark (16:31):
Play it on loop.
Samantha (16:32):
Go ahead.
Sorry to interrupt.
Mark (16:34):
No, I'm pitching PR today and I a hundred percent mean it,
but I think that's going to bepart of the challenges for the
industry.
I think that's going to be a bigchange is that you could do it
digitally and it's going to beless and less people doing it
and seeing that value of havingthat person to be in charge of
telling your story.
Samantha (16:52):
Yeah, I think that's definitely a consideration.
The other thing I think about isgenuineness, right?
We had a client who we've beenworking with this client for
quite a long time, I mean, closeto 10 years, know them
exceptionally well, and we'vedone PR and digital, and we've
been pretty heavy on the digitalside.
And recently they've come to usand said, look, we really want
more PR.
We want to be on, like, the bestlist.
(17:13):
We want to be, you know, inthese kind of rankings.
They're in the restaurantindustry and it was kind of an
interesting shift becausethey're like, you know, we want
to kind of move away a littlebit from digital.
We're seeing a balance of this,of like, the rise of using
technology, things to improveand enhance things or expedite
things, but at the same time,finding a way to genuinely
communicate and find folks wherethey are and when they're going
(17:36):
to be most interested and reallyconnect with them.
PR is going to be a balance withall things marketing, like it's
been, it's just a differentbalance.
This has been awesome, Mark.
I am so grateful for your time.
Thank you so much.
We've touched on AI andjournalism, the PR side of the
house, the media side of thehouse.
Really helpful, I reallyappreciate it.
And for anyone listening, docheck out Mark's podcast.
(17:59):
It's amazing.
From the Corner Office.
And we'll be on with 1000 Waysto Market Your Business again in
the near future.
Hello, everybody.
Welcome to 1000 Ways to MarketYour Business.
I am Samantha Scott, APR,President of Pushing the
Envelope.
And today I am joined by MarkGordon, Managing Editor of
Business Observer and journalistfor nearly 30 years.
Mark, welcome.
Mark (00:18):
Thank you.
Thanks so much for having me.
I'm happy to be here and excitedto chat with you.
Samantha (00:22):
Yeah, I'm so excited.
We've had the pleasure ofworking together for some time
and I'm really, really excitedto pick your brain because today
I want to talk about the topicof public relations, media
relations, where that's going.
You are a perfect person to talkabout this with your experience,
nearly 30 years in journalism.
You know, I've been in businessfor a little over 20 years, but
different sides of the house.
Mark (00:42):
Yeah, certainly like a lot of industries, there's a lot of
those flashpoints of change,right?
And then you look at it andyou're like, okay, this is how
we do PR today.
Right?
Different than 10 years ago.
Samantha (00:52):
Oh my gosh, absolutely different than 10 years ago.
I do public speaking and speakat colleges and things from time
to time.
And I joke that we were aroundbefore social media and we had
to do PR before that.
And when they were still faxingand things like that, like, what
is a fax machine?
Mark (01:05):
Hard to believe I was with somebody the other day and we
were talking about, somethingcame up with his daughter trying
to get into college.
And he mentioned this person hasa great Rolodex.
And I looked at my 16 year oldson and I said, do you know what
a Rolodex is?
He said, yes, I don't think hedid.
And then he sort of fumbledaround.
He kind of did actually, he justdidn't really say, but yes, fax
(01:25):
machines, Rolodex, all that.
Samantha (01:26):
Yeah, yeah, it's a whole different world now.
It's really, really interestingand, you know, some good, some
bad, and I'm looking forward todigging into that.
So, let's start by how would youdefine public relations and as a
subset of that media relations?
Mark (01:40):
Yeah, it's a great way to start.
I define public relations, mediarelations as somebody who's
representing their client orinternally their company.
Right?
So it could be, you know,they're in a big corporation.
It doesn't have to be big interms of people, but just
they're inside the company orthey're outside the company,
like at your agency,representing the builder or
representing the developer orthe hospital or whatever.
(02:01):
Their job is to put forwardinformation in a most timely,
transparent way possible.
I think that's how I would lookat what PR and media relations
do.
Samantha (02:12):
Yeah I agree, and I think part of that too is just
representing the brand, theessence, and making sure that
you're forthright.
I love the transparency partthat you mentioned.
And I think also beingforthright, and communicating
clearly.
And public relations goes sobroad.
I mean, media relations, I thinkis what most people think of,
like, you know, publicity,things like that.
That's a key component becausewe're kind of working as
(02:34):
partners here on behalf of boththe public who need this
information as well as theorganizations that we're
communicating about.
But community relations fallsinto, that crisis communications
falls into that.
I mean, there's just so manyfacets and they all kind of end
up in some point intersectingwith media relations as well.
Mark (02:52):
They do.
You need somebody to tell yourstory.
And I've known a lot of peoplein your line of work over the
years, got to know you verywell, and I think it's sort of
that misunderstood thing in acompany where they think,"Oh, I
could just write the pressrelease myself." And there's
certainly tons of toolsavailable today, where if you're
just writing one press release,we just introduced a new
product, you can make anargument that you could do that
(03:13):
yourself.
I'm sure there's plenty of goodtools to do that, but a good PR
person, right, should be thestoryteller of that company.
I say all the time, like I lovethe window into somebody else's
life that I get as a reporter, Iget to meet these interesting
business owners.
And oftentimes I'll leave theinterview thinking,"man, if they
had a PR person, the story wouldhave been different." That
doesn't necessarily mean bad,but you know, they could have
(03:36):
used you to help them coach themthrough some things.
It's a lot more things than justwriting the
Samantha (03:41):
press release.
Absolutely.
People think that,"Oh, if Ibuild it, they will come," and
"well, if I put out the newsrelease, I'm going to get
coverage." We hear that so oftenfrom folks, and they've got a
great story to tell.
But either the release wasn'twell written or they didn't have
the media list.
You know, this is where therelationships come in.
And to your point, there's tonsof technology and systems now
that you can pay to have arelease distributed, and it'll
probably go to mostly the rightpeople.
(04:02):
But there's a difference betweenjust kind of putting it out
there and hoping somebody picksit up versus having that
relationship, being able to calland say,"Hey Mark, I've got this
client.
This is their story." And youand I often have done that where
it's like,"Okay, well this mightbe the angle I'm thinking," but
you might come at it from adifferent side, where like,"Oh,
I hadn't thought about it thatway." And framing it is just so
important, and, being on brand,and storytelling, like you've
said, and doing it in a numberof ways.
(04:25):
So, I have another question.
I've got lots of questionstoday.
So what do you think has beenthe most substantial change in
the last few years of PR?
And if you want to go back,maybe start at the beginning or
go in the middle or however youwant to do it.
Mark (04:38):
We're top of mind people, right?
And so AI and chatbots and allthat would certainly be on
there.
But I think the most substantialchange is, we just touched on a
little bit.
To me, it's like staffinglevels, and PR people doing more
more more and not doing some ofthe things that maybe they were
doing 10 or 15 years ago.
(04:59):
That's what I've noticed atleast from the reporter side.
Sometimes organizations that youthink they're definitely gonna
have a PR person for this, theydon't, or at least it's not
readily available.
And then when you get a hold ofthem, there's a disconnect, and
as a reporter, it's challengingto figure out who's the right
person to talk to.
That wasn't the case like 10years ago.
I feel like that's a prettysignificant change where you
(05:22):
don't have that access to peopleas much as you used to.
I think that would be onechange.
And then as we mentioned thedigitalization, I guess, of the
industry.
There's so many things you coulddo on artificial intelligence
programs.
That's really impacted it aswell.
Samantha (05:36):
Yeah.
So the first part, I think youbring up a really interesting
point, change in staffing androles and responsibilities.
I could even reflect on thatfrom dealing with media, right?
Especially with TV journalists,right?
You'd have the reporter comeout, a camera person come out,
you work with a producer.
Now you're working with oneperson who has to do all of
that, and they've got to getstuff on the internet.
They've got to do social media.
They're doing everything.
(05:57):
And PR is definitely feeling thepinch that way too, because now,
depending on the setup, you'vegot a PR person who has to be
able to effectively manage themedia, be a really exceptional
writer, they have to be able todo social media posts, do
community relations, knoweveryone, be everywhere all the
time, and respond like this.
Mark (06:17):
Yeah.
No, 100%.
You're right.
That certainly impacts it.
And it's funny, those things,right?
Each of those things are likespecialist
Samantha (06:23):
Yes
Mark (06:23):
things that used to be done, right?
There used to be the socialmedia person.
Now you're the social mediaperson.
And as these algorithms change,I mean, it's challenging and
difficult to keep up with.
It's hard to stay on top of allthese different trends and
things going on to be in frontof people.
Samantha (06:41):
It really is.
And, you know, to your point ofhaving to do all of those things
and I'll just explain, I like toshare knowledge, but also our
particular position andexpertise on our podcast.
I always say with a grain ofsalt, you can do it any which
way, but this is how we've beendoing it in our business for
some time is we really try to bevery specific, narrow and deep
in terms of who does what.
(07:02):
We work as a team.
So collectively, we're kind ofhaving to address this beast
that is this change in the waythat we work.
But we have team members who arededicated to just digital.
And we have team members thatare just PR.
And then we've got somebodythat's kind of looking at it
from a brand perspectiveoverall.
But we work together becausethere's no way for one person to
do all of those thingsexceptionally well.
And that's what we strive to do.
(07:24):
But I want to go to your pointabout AI and changes in
technology.
And I'm curious from yourperspective, Mark.
You know, AI, there's this hugediscussion around how do you
know what's genuine?
How do you fact check?
Are you using AI?
I'm just curious.
Let's talk about how you'reseeing that work.
Mark (07:40):
So we are not really at the Business Observer using AI
too much in terms of the finalproduct content.
We're using a little bit, Ithink, in our research.
Like everybody, we're cautious.
I say like everybody, like mostpeople, I think we're cautious,
especially in journalism, right?
You have this like, you know,personal touch thing.
I wrote a column, a leadershipcolumn a few weeks ago about a
(08:03):
guy who's started a nonprofit inTampa to help rescue American
citizens like caught in likedangerous world hotspots.
I interviewed him on Zoom and hewas in Lebanon actually I
thought it was really cool.
You could do an AI reporter, butyou wouldn't get the touch, the
feel that we had.
The other thing worth answeringis we had a company wide meeting
about AI.
And it was surprising, my editortold me all the young people in
(08:26):
the room that you think wouldhave totally embraced it,
they're like"no, we don't wantthis, we don't want to do it."
Samantha (08:31):
You know, it is interesting to see
generationally how this is goingto play out.
I mean, in anything there'salways early adopters, the
laggards, you know, the bellcurve kind of for adoption.
What you just said reallytouched on something for me.
You know, I'm accredited in PR,so I adhere to a code of ethics.
Just like in journalism, youadhere to a code of ethics.
And I think that is one reallycrucial thing that I think if we
(08:55):
aren't careful on both sides canget out of hand with the changes
in PR and it's just socritically important.
So, how do you see on this kindof tech side, social media and
online elements factoring intoPR, specifically media relations
in the future.
And I'll kind of start with alittle volley there, for
example, we follow journalistson Facebook, X, LinkedIn, et
(09:16):
cetera, and have found sometimesthat it's easier to connect with
them.
You talked about trying toconnect with the right points of
contact with businesses, butsometimes we've found that
that's easier to connect withjournalists because they are
overwhelmed with email orthey're not answering the phone.
Mark (09:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that could be an agething too.
LinkedIn is a good place for me.
I do connect with plenty ofpeople there, and that's been
good for me personally.
The newspaper itself, Facebookhas been relatively good for us.
A way that I've seen PR peopleuse it is to put stuff out there
that maybe media isn't pickingup, right?
So, they'll put the pressrelease out there, like, in a
(09:50):
story form, and that's unusual.
I think that's maybe the pastfew years.
I've seen more and more of that,and I kind of understand that
from their perspective.
Like, hey, we had this thing, wetried to pitch it, nobody bit,
nobody took it, so we're goingto put it on social media
ourselves, and then kind of seewhere it goes.
I think that's been somethingI've seen different.
Samantha (10:08):
Yeah.
That is an interesting way, andI think that's a great kind of
tip for listeners who arecurious about how they can
leverage PR.
Not everybody is interested orcan afford working with a firm,
and I love to give tips thatpeople can apply.
That's a great one is build yourmedia list.
There's tons of organizations,FPRA, which is the Florida
Public Relations Association,but there's also the PR Society
of America, PRSA.
(10:29):
Often if you're a member, youcan get a media list from them,
that's an inexpensive way, plusyou can network with others and
learn.
Plug, I'm a past president forFPRA, so love that organization.
But, yeah, I think that's oneway that you can build that.
But the other is, if you're notgetting the play, because you're
not getting media to take abite, well, you have earned
media, or owned rather, excuseme, that you can use.
So, put it out on your socialmedia channels, put it out on
(10:51):
your website, a blog, emailnewsletter, et cetera.
That's a great tip that peoplecan do on their own.
Mark (10:56):
And I guess I would add too we talked about in the
beginning about, you know, thevalue of PR.
And I feel like I'm not a PRperson, but that's also
something where you can accesssomebody like yourself to get a
strategy, right?
Is it just just putting it up onsocial media?
Or what is your strategy?
I've seen that a lot in PRwhere, what's your goal here?
Right.
We often say to BusinessObserver, think like a business
(11:18):
owner.
You're a business owner, right?
What do you expect from thisstory?
What are you going to learn?
What are you going to beinspired by?
What are you going to beinformed by?
So that's why I'm thinking,what's your strategy?
Is it just to throw it up onFacebook and get 82 likes and 15
shares, or is it marketpenetration.
You could go deeper with that Iguess is what I'm saying.
Samantha (11:37):
You are singing my song, Mark.
If you've ever listened to anyof our podcasts, read a blog,
ebook, anything strategy iseverything.
I always say that you got tostart with a plan because to
your point, is this a popularitycontest?
Am I just trying to get someeyeballs on this content?
That means nothing for yourbottom line.
Are you trying to get people totake action?
Do you want them to go to yourwebsite, reserve, call you?
(11:58):
What are you trying toaccomplish with this?
Absolutely.
Thank you.
Love that point.
And you know, I love BusinessObserver, I've been reading it
for quite some time.
I think you do a great job ofthat is looking at it from your
readers' perspective.
And I think that's a reallyimportant point for business
owners, PR professionals tothink about as well is it's not
about what, and I say this alot, it's not about what you're
(12:20):
trying to sell or what you'retrying to say.
It's about what your targetaudience needs or wants to hear.
So how can you position it in away that they're going to be
most receptive to that?
And that starts with strategyand knowing your audience.
So how would you being on themedia side of the house
recommend a PR professional or abusiness owner leverage PR for
their business?
And do you have any tips forworking with journalists,
(12:42):
reporters, editors like you?
Mark (12:44):
I think that the main tip I would say that we just touched
on, that it's more challenging,but it's relationship driven,
right?
That's the first step I wouldsay is build that relationship,
find that reporter.
You just said, know youraudience, know that this
publication caters to the thingthat you're doing.
Go find the publication thatspecializes in that, find the
reporter, get to know thatreporter.
I can't say the number of timesthat it's helped me as a
(13:05):
reporter understand the clientsbetter.
Your firm and I worked on this.
You guys had a client, anonprofit that we talked about
and I didn't fully reallyunderstand what the organization
did.
I felt comfortable calling yousaying,"Hey, I saw this press
release.
I don't really understand whatyou're doing.
Can you, you know, help me withthis like mission statement."
But that relationship I thinkis, is the first thing.
(13:26):
You have to be able to do that.
And the second thing is bepersistent.
There's that fine line, I'm onthese panels sometimes and
people ask like, how often?
I said, you know, you're sellingyour press release, so be
persistent.
You know, it doesn't mean.
Samantha (13:39):
Stalk you in a coffee shop and text you and email you.
Mark (13:43):
And look, that's a key part of this job, right?
You know, trying to interviewsomebody that maybe doesn't want
to be interviewed.
I balance that line.
How many times am I going toemail this person to say,"Hey,
is Mr.
So and so going to do theinterview?" The third tip I
always have is accessibility.
That doesn't mean 24/7.
Everybody has a life outside ofwork.
But I can't tell you the numberof times I've gotten press
releases, and in the upper righthand corner, for more
(14:06):
information, contact Jill.
And there's a number and anemail, and they don't email back
and they don't pick up thephone.
I'm talking over a period of dayand a half, two days, not, not
10 minutes.
Samantha (14:17):
Okay, so for any of our new college grads or people
entering the PR world, that islike lesson one: when media
calls, you answer.
That is always mission critical.
I even have that on my awaymessage if I'm out of town
that's like, if you are media orthis is an emergency, here's
what to do, because look, we getit.
Well, I shouldn't say wegenerally, I think in the PR
(14:38):
world, we should get this isthat you're on a deadline.
And we have to work together.
So if you need something, I haveto be able to get that to you.
Absolutely.
Mark (14:46):
And yeah, you said need something, you know, I should
say there's a fourth thing.
I tell our reporters this allthe time, and it's important, I
think, lesson from the mediaside.
Don't just treat PR people as,like, a phone call because you
need something.
You're allowed to call them andsay,"Hey, what's going on, tell
me about this, what's new?
I'm not writing a story, butlike what's happening?" It's
(15:08):
just like anything else,relationship building.
We all make choices about whowe're going to spend more time
with.
And some people you becomefriends with some more working.
That's okay.
But I think the relationship hasto be two sided.
It can't always be I need, need,need.
Samantha (15:21):
Yes, I agree, and I have counseled many people on
our team the same, right?
It's like, don't just look atjournalists as someone that's a
means to an end, right?
They're not a tool in thetoolbox for lack of a better
word.
Let's help them, right?
How can we help each other?
Often we'll send notes like,"Oh,I really liked this article,"
or,"Hey, I've got somebody onthis topic if you ever need it."
Not because I need somethingright now, but again, to your
(15:43):
point is like, let's just, let'swork together.
It's such a better relationship.
Mark (15:47):
Yes.
Samantha (15:48):
Love it.
Okay.
So look in your crystal ball.
What does PR look like in thenext 30 years?
And how might that differ?
Mark (15:57):
30 years.
Samantha (15:58):
I thought, you know, you've been there for 30, what's
coming up in the next 30.
Mark (16:01):
I like it.
I like it.
I think the big difference isgoing to be all the technology
that we talked about.
What shape it's gonna take, I'mnot sure, but there's definitely
gonna be a lot moredigitalization of getting that
message across, getting PRacross, I think, less and less
people.
I mean, we touched on it alittle bit.
I think the devaluing of thatside of it.
Right.
I mean, again, I've talked topeople in your position where
(16:22):
they go to companies andcompanies are like, well, why do
I need you, I can just do thismyself.
But you wouldn't do that with aCPA firm, right?
If you're not an accountant.
Samantha (16:28):
Can I, okay.
I recorded this, so I'm justgoing to play that on loop.
Mark (16:31):
Play it on loop.
Samantha (16:32):
Go ahead.
Sorry to interrupt.
Mark (16:34):
No, I'm pitching PR today and I a hundred percent mean it,
but I think that's going to bepart of the challenges for the
industry.
I think that's going to be a bigchange is that you could do it
digitally and it's going to beless and less people doing it
and seeing that value of havingthat person to be in charge of
telling your story.
Samantha (16:52):
Yeah, I think that's definitely a consideration.
The other thing I think about isgenuineness, right?
We had a client who we've beenworking with this client for
quite a long time, I mean, closeto 10 years, know them
exceptionally well, and we'vedone PR and digital, and we've
been pretty heavy on the digitalside.
And recently they've come to usand said, look, we really want
more PR.
We want to be on, like, the bestlist.
(17:13):
We want to be, you know, inthese kind of rankings.
They're in the restaurantindustry and it was kind of an
interesting shift becausethey're like, you know, we want
to kind of move away a littlebit from digital.
We're seeing a balance of this,of like, the rise of using
technology, things to improveand enhance things or expedite
things, but at the same time,finding a way to genuinely
communicate and find folks wherethey are and when they're going
(17:36):
to be most interested and reallyconnect with them.
PR is going to be a balance withall things marketing, like it's
been, it's just a differentbalance.
This has been awesome, Mark.
I am so grateful for your time.
Thank you so much.
We've touched on AI andjournalism, the PR side of the
house, the media side of thehouse.
Really helpful, I reallyappreciate it.
And for anyone listening, docheck out Mark's podcast.
(17:59):
It's amazing.
From the Corner Office.
And we'll be on with 1000 Waysto Market Your Business again in
the near future.
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