September 24, 2023 • 23 mins
Welcome to our September Book Club episode where we discuss The Perfect Marriage by Jeneva Rose.
Our October Book Club Book is None of This is True by Lisa Jewell.
Tune into our next book club episode on October 29!
xoxo Kristine & Carrie
Want even more of us? Follow 2 Babes on Instagram
Follow Kristine on Instagram
Follow Carrie on Instagram
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristine (00:08):
Oh, hey, it's Christine.
I poked that up already.
Let's start.
Let's start over.
Okay.
Carrie (00:12):
Okay.
Oh, hey, it's Christine and it'sKeri.
We're best friends.
And we are the owners ofLavender and Lace Boutique, an
online women's boutique basedout of Sherwood Park, Alberta.
And we started a podcast just tohear ourselves talk.
We really did.
Yeah.
So, uh, welcome to our secondbook club episode.
Yes! We're so excited.
(00:33):
So excited.
Kristine (00:34):
This book was so
Carrie (00:36):
good.
So good.
I loved it.
I did too.
Really easy to read.
Yes.
Like caught me from thebeginning, which is always a big
thing for me.
Um, and I never felt like it waslagging.
No.
I really, really liked
Kristine (00:49):
it.
There was something happening.
Every time I picked up my yes.
It was very intriguing.
It was
Carrie (00:55):
really good.
So if you didn't know the bookthat we were reading was called
the perfect marriage by GenevaRose and it was fantastic.
I know we've said that I just Ireally enjoyed it.
Christine and I actually justfinished it.
Yeah, I didn't want to read thisbook too early because I didn't
want to forget parts of it whenwe wanted to talk about it.
(01:15):
Agreed.
Um, especially like names andstuff.
I'm you.
Like, once I go into a new book,the old book is like, she gone.
Agreed, a hundred percent.
She gone.
Same with me.
And the thing that I found themost interesting about this book
is I thought it was someonedifferent constantly.
I was suspicious
Kristine (01:35):
of every single character.
Me too.
And I'm not even talking aboutlike the main ones.
I'm talking about like thebarista.
Yeah.
Like, everybody was suspiciousto me.
Everybody did something
Carrie (01:46):
bad.
Yeah.
So I, I thought it was, so Ithought it was Sarah first.
Yeah.
I was suspicious of her at thebeginning and I'll get to why in
a second, but I was, she was theone I was the most suspicious
about at the beginning, but thenthey just started throwing more
people in at you.
Like then I thought maybe Adamactually did do it because like,
(02:09):
where was the blood on his, howdid he have no blood on him when
he was laying right next to her?
dead.
Yes.
You know, like we talked aboutlast night, like, how did he
not?
It's funny because Christine andI talked about this book for a
little, quite a while lastnight, but we hadn't finished it
yet.
Right.
So it was, you know, yeah.
And then, like Bob, once wefound out he was the brother in
(02:29):
law.
That was wild.
And then Anne, I thought it washer for a bit.
I thought she was like in lovewith Sarah or something.
Kate, that's
Kristine (02:36):
where I was going to.
I agree.
I thought something was goingsideways with that and it made
sense to me that she would have,like, I don't know.
It just, it made sense at thatmoment.
Um, and then there was othercharacters that came into play
like that, uh, Jesse Hook, likehe was obsessed with, um, with
(02:57):
Kelly.
That one
Carrie (02:58):
seemed too easy though.
Yeah, but then I was like, butmaybe.
But maybe.
Yeah,
Kristine (03:02):
because no one knew of him and he was very sus with his
burner phone and why did youhave a burner phone if you're
just yeah if you're just uh inlove with this person why did
you have some a phone that wecan't get a hold of you on yeah
you know what I mean like yeahwhy So there was, there was ways
that it could have been him.
Yeah, and then the sheriff.
(03:22):
Oh my god.
I...
Well, he was so
Carrie (03:24):
wishy washy.
And I told you last night whenwe were walking, I'm like, he's
the third DNA sample.
Like I just felt it in my bones,which he was, but he still
wasn't the murderer.
Kristine (03:32):
Nope.
He was just boinking her.
Yeah.
I
Carrie (03:37):
mean, she, apparently she was boinking everybody.
She was boinking everybody.
And then, and then for a bit, Ithought maybe it was Matthew.
Yeah.
For the same reason I thought ofAnne.
I thought maybe he was in lovewith Sarah and maybe he just,
Kristine (03:49):
you know.
Because he was, he's gay in thebook.
Yeah.
And, and, uh, for quite sometime, well, they did talk about
it a lot, that he is, um, has avery close relationship with
Sarah.
And Adam was, little bitsuspicious of him.
Yeah.
So I was like, this, this canmake sense.
Like being gay could be hisbeard and he's actually,
(04:11):
actually secretly in love withSarah.
And like, you know, there's justsome sort of coverage there.
It made sense.
All of these.
Suspicions made sense.
Oh, she
Carrie (04:22):
made it so that you were suspicious of every single
character.
Every single one.
She managed to make yoususpicious of every single
person in this book.
100%.
But Sarah was my OG.
And the reason being is becausewhen I was reading about Sarah,
I saw a lot of me in her.
Yeah, okay.
Like, her personality, her like,type A, her like, you know, her,
(04:44):
Just a lot of things about herand I was like, there is no way
this woman does not know herhusband is cheating on her.
There is just no way that youcan be that way in your life and
not know your husband issleeping with someone else.
Yeah.
And so I was like, you know,like there's just to me, she's
(05:04):
so observant.
She's a lawyer.
She's like, she's a criminallawyer.
Yeah.
Her whole job is to decide ifpeople are lying or not.
Like, there's just no way.
So, I just felt like she knew.
And, wow.
But it twists you.
It did.
It twisted it.
It did, because I becamesuspicious of everybody.
Yeah.
And, the author did such anamazing job with the Sarah
(05:29):
chapters, making you not.
No
Kristine (05:32):
making yes, you had no idea like the arguments between
her and Bob and her and Kent herboss everything was so Solid
there was no holes in the storyat all And you know what shook
me to the court like they'rejust jumping around to
characters.
There was nothing Hudson wasvery suspicious The entire time
(05:57):
because he was kind of a dickand smug, but nothing came of
him nothing.
He's just a smug dick He wasjust there to throw you off.
Yes, and he did.
Yeah, and I felt very suspiciousof Sarah at the very beginning
because like you're reallydefending your husband at this
moment Yeah, there's so manyconflicts of interest in my
opinion, but like you're doingit anyway But her story, going
(06:21):
back to having no holes, it mademe feel like she was just
genuinely trying to do her job.
Yeah.
Because she is the best of thebest.
Yeah.
So I was like, okay, you are thebest of the best.
Eleanor, the mom, went to otherlawyers, said no, Sarah is the
best of the best.
This is it go with her.
Yeah, and so I I really sidedwith that.
(06:43):
Yeah, I was like you're rightShe is the best.
Let's win this thing.
But that's why she got away withit.
Carrie (06:48):
Exactly She is the best.
She is the best and I just lovedthat.
Yeah, it was it was a reallyreally good book And when I got
to the 11 years later, yeah, andshe went To see him in prison.
I was like you did it.
Yeah, you
Kristine (07:05):
did it.
You did it.
You did it.
You
Carrie (07:07):
did it.
Yeah.
And then, you know, you kind ofdidn't find out right away.
And she was saying goodbye tohim.
And then she gets out to the carand it's Bob fucking Bob fucking
Bob.
The whole time I was readingthis book.
I thought Bob was like this oldfat man.
Me too.
Me too.
100 percent But I guess not Bob.
Bob's
Kristine (07:25):
her lover.
Bob's she's into Bob.
Good for you.
And they have a daughter.
Sure.
Yeah.
Okay.
Summer.
Yeah.
Which was funny.
I really liked, um, the way thatshe said to Adam, I know for a
fact that you didn't kill her.
And then I was like, you slylittle girl.
You did it, Yes.
(07:49):
And like, that was crazy.
The revenge factor on that wasintense.
Yes.
Like, so intense.
She
Carrie (07:56):
spent eleven years waiting for him to die after she
set him up.
That's crazy.
And I'm sure when she did it,she never expected him to get
the death penalty because shewould have no reason to know
that Kelly was pregnant.
No, and that's the only reasonit became right because I'm
execution because it was adouble homicide It was a wild
time.
It was so
Kristine (08:17):
good.
I loved
Carrie (08:18):
everything about it Yeah, and then I was like
thinking about like that night.
He came home after After shekilled Kelly and he came home
and she's like, let's make ababy.
You never wanted to make it No,you just wanted to twist his
mind.
Yeah, she she was just playingthat fucking game in the
beginning.
Yeah
Kristine (08:37):
The whole time.
Yeah.
And I loved it.
Yeah.
When, later on though, I didhave a question.
It was a little bit of a, not awhole, but it didn't give me an
answer or maybe I missed it.
Um, later on she was sleepingat, she was in bed and then
somebody came into the room.
I think it was Bob.
You think it was Bob?
Yeah.
(08:57):
Okay.
Yeah.
Cause I thought it was Matthew.
That's another thing that Ithought, that's why, like, it
could have been him.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it wasBob.
Now thinking back, yes, thatmakes a hundred
Carrie (09:09):
percent sense.
I'm Relationship is secret.
He just came in in the night,did their thing, did their thing
and he
Kristine (09:17):
left.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah.
Okay.
I have a couple questions.
You want to do a handful?
Sure.
A handful?
Okay.
Um, let's Okay, this is a kindof a Wild question.
Sarah and Adam both had secretsthey kept from each other.
Is this unusual in a marriage?
(09:38):
Is it ever okay to keep secretsin a lie when in a relationship?
In general, what do you thinkthe motive?
What do you think motivatespeople to lie?
Do you think the characters werelying to themselves?
Oh, that's a good question.
Carrie (09:51):
That is a good question.
Um, Lies?
No.
No.
I don't like that.
No.
I, I think that the only way tohave a solid relationship is to
have trust in each other.
So as soon as you start lying,like lying, Yeah.
I'm not saying, like, you go toMcDonald's on lunch and you
(10:12):
don't tell your husband that youbought McDonald's for lunch.
I'm not talking about that.
I know.
I'm talking about lying.
Big lies.
No, I don't think you should belying in your relationship.
Kristine (10:21):
And, I know this says marriage, but I think a
relationship, regardless of it,lying is not okay.
No.
And is it ever okay to keepsecrets when in a relationship?
Carrie (10:35):
Not necessarily.
No, but I guess, so in hersituation, she knew he was
cheating on her.
Right.
And she, I'm not justifyinggetting your husband killed
because he cheated on you, justto be clear.
But um, he, she kept that secretfrom him because she wanted to
set him up.
(10:56):
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
So like, they had secrets fromeach other, But I think it
started with him.
Agreed.
I think he started that.
And then, you know, if you feellike your partner or whomever is
lying to you, of course you'regoing to start to, like, be
secretive.
Kristine (11:13):
Yes.
And her, her childhood was sodark.
So dark.
That I feel like she didn'tknow, she might know the
difference between right andwrong because she's a lawyer.
However, she, She doesn't knowit for herself because of the
way she
Carrie (11:27):
lived.
Yeah, and like, plot twist, shekilled her mom.
Kristine (11:30):
Yeah, that was nuts.
Like, yeah, that was, thatreally took me for a ride there.
I was like, you did what?
Carrie (11:37):
Sorry?
And like, when she was like, Ijust couldn't.
Like I was working all my freetime to try to like support my
mom while she was just like anaddict an addict like Not again.
I'm not justifying murderingsomeone but I do I do see what
yeah.
Kristine (11:56):
Yeah.
Yeah and then for the questionof What do you think motivates
people to lie?
I think it's fear.
Yeah, I think that's I thinkthat's a big one.
Yeah
Carrie (12:09):
Yeah, fear is a big one Um, like Just not being happy
and not, again, but that goesback to fear, not being happy
and not being, like, willing tostep up and be like, I'm not
happy with this.
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Yeah, he started cheating on herbecause obviously he was looking
for something that they didn'thave in their marriage.
(12:30):
Agreed.
But he just didn't have theballs to say, hey, I'm not
happy.
Kristine (12:35):
Yeah, they both did the exact same thing to each
other and lived with it, which,It's a huge secret in itself,
like it's wild.
Yeah, yeah.
And a huge lie.
Yeah.
Yeah, they just were not beinghonest with each other
whatsoever.
Um, how, oh no, I don't
Carrie (12:55):
like that question.
And it also interests me nowthat Bob and Sarah are like
starting their life together andLike, they started their
relationship, like, murderingsomeone.
Right?
Like,
Kristine (13:09):
how bizarre.
Oh, wow.
And, and public arguments andfights in the office.
Throw you off?
And they did.
They really threw me.
And, like, I questioned, like,when did their relationship
actually start?
Like, you know, did it, youknow, did it start because
Carrie (13:29):
of it?
It sounds like it.
It sounded like it based on herexplanation.
Yeah, cuz it sounds like Bob cuzBob was digging into Kelly right
and then he found it by accidentand I feel like that Like that
Kristine (13:43):
was the kickoff.
Yeah, was it before cuz likeAnne would bitch about Bob, and
Sarah would bitch about Bob, wasit before or after?
Did the bitching stop after?
Carrie (13:57):
Maybe not.
I mean, if I worked with myhusband, I would probably still
bitch about him to you.
Oh, I do.
Correct.
So, you know, I don't think justbecause they were like together
means that you're not going tobitch about someone.
Fair enough.
But it's so hard to
Kristine (14:11):
say it's so it's so very hard to say Do you think
Sarah's actions are justified?
Carrie (14:18):
Murdering someone innocent to get back at your
husband.
No, no but revenge Of some sort?
Yes.
Kristine (14:33):
Yeah, because he, like, in the book, okay, so he
wasn't a murderer, but he wasn'tin the right.
No.
He was still wrong.
He still did something verywrong.
And so did she, obviously.
Was it justified?
No, definitely shouldn't havemurdered him, but
Carrie (14:51):
like it's not him that it's murdering.
It's murdering
Kristine (14:54):
Kelly Murdering Kelly and letting him die because of
that.
Yeah,
Carrie (14:58):
but like murdering Kelly No, is like the first no.
Kristine (15:02):
Yeah, I don't think it was justified
Carrie (15:05):
in in the real world, no, no No.
Absolutely not.
No.
Do you, do I think you shouldhave some sort, some sort of
revenge?
Well, why not?
Yeah.
I mean, I'm a very, fairlyvengeful person, so I'm, but
like I would never murdersomeone or have my husband
sentenced to
Kristine (15:21):
death because of it.
My, I think, well, I have neverdone it, but I feel like the
most extreme thing I could everdo is maybe egg your house.
Not yours specifically, butsomebody.
Yeah.
Um.
I know you have a camera, soyou'd catch me.
But you know, somebody, like, Ifeel like that's as far as I
could go for revenge.
(15:41):
Like, otherwise, it's a little,Sarah, you went a little crazy.
You went a little crazy, but itwas a really good read.
Okay, were you more sympatheticbetween or towards Sarah or Adam
and why?
Sarah.
Yeah, the whole time.
So I hated Adam.
Oh, he was so freaking wishy
Carrie (15:59):
washy.
I hated him.
He was wishy washy.
He was like, he's likecompletely opposite of anything
I'm attracted to.
So I had a very hard timerelating to him.
Yeah.
He's like, he was very mope.
He was very like, he, like wewere talking about last night.
He like was in bed with Kelly,decided he was leaving his wife
(16:20):
for her.
And then he went home and thenhe was like, Oh, you want to
have a baby?
I love you more now.
Yeah.
And then,
Kristine (16:25):
and then let's throw in the reporter, Rebecca.
He's like, you know what?
I love you.
I love you.
I love you.
I love you.
Everybody.
I love you.
He just didn't care.
Like he just was one person.
No.
bothered him a little bit.
So he's like, I'll go to thenext person.
And then he went to the nextperson.
It was like, you were literallyin the middle of a murder trial.
(16:45):
Your girlfriend who you loved isdead.
Your wife is pissed at you.
She is your lawyer.
And yet you're going to go aftersomebody else and you're just
going to be kissing her forwhat?
For what?
Carrie (16:58):
So weird.
What, what
Kristine (17:01):
are you getting from this?
It's so
Carrie (17:03):
weird.
It was bizarre.
And like, I did, I definitelyfelt for Sarah.
For me, um, when I was readingit with, um, with Adam, I was
like, why are you, why are youletting Rebecca do this
investigating for you and nottrusting your wife?
But shouldn't have trusted yourwife because she wasn't really
(17:23):
looking at your best interest atall.
No, at
Kristine (17:26):
all.
No.
She had a plan and she knew whatwas So
Carrie (17:29):
obviously you knew something was up.
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
But the whole time I was like,you're an idiot, but no, I guess
he wasn't an idiot.
He was, he was actually, uh,investigating because his wife
actually was screwing him Tryingto get
Kristine (17:41):
rid of him.
Yeah.
That was wild.
Um, if, is there anything thatyou would change about the
story?
If you could?
Same.
I really liked it.
I would maybe, Eleanor reallypissed me off, but now in the
end, I'm I feel her judgmenttowards Sarah.
Oh yeah?
You know what I mean?
(18:01):
Like, I feel like she knew Sarahwasn't, just not a good person.
That's fair.
But I, the way she treatedSarah, absolutely not
acceptable.
But I understand her judgmentand her hesitation towards
everything.
That's fair.
In the end.
That's fair.
That's fair.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, uh, She was a, see
Carrie (18:22):
you next Tuesday.
See, I didn't like her, but Iliked her in the book.
Like, I liked having her there.
She definitely added.
So no, I wouldn't changeanything.
I would maybe tone
Kristine (18:30):
her down a bit, but then again, she was really
important to the story andreally made me think about,
like, her, other people'sperspectives of Sarah.
Carrie (18:39):
Yeah,
Kristine (18:40):
exactly.
Um, let me see here.
Do you, this is a little bit ofa dark question, but do you
think, do you truly think thatKelly was...
being abused by her husband.
Um, or was she a girl
Carrie (19:01):
who cried wolf?
I think she was a girl who criedwolf.
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't think she was atall.
I thought it for maybe a bit,but then I realized that, um,
everybody was under theinfluence of, like, Bob and
Sarah.
So, like, anything that was eversaid, I just couldn't trust it.
So, no, I do think she was agirl who cried wolf.
(19:22):
Yeah, I agree.
Because I'm pretty sure she,like, without a doubt, she
murdered her first husband.
Yes.
I
Kristine (19:28):
agree with that.
And then she used like hermagical ways to get Yeah, Scott
her husband to help her and thenyeah,
Carrie (19:38):
and then she cheated on him, too Yeah, and the cycle
just with like also with SheriffStevens.
Yes, you know many people likepotentially more That was just
what was in her in her at onetime.
Yeah, like girl
Kristine (19:54):
Breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
You're
Carrie (19:55):
fucking busy.
Like, that's a busy day.
Kristine (19:58):
That is a busy day.
Breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
Like, when do
Carrie (20:02):
you eat?
When do you get ready?
No, I, right?
Busy,
Kristine (20:05):
busy.
I guess they must have beenreally fast.
Um, what, um, If you're ratingit out of five, Carrie, what
would you give it for yourself?
Carrie (20:17):
Um, five.
Yeah, I agree.
I really liked it.
Um, but I'm also a verygenerous, uh, I'm also a very
generous book reader because I,I'm not one of those people,
it's funny because I was readingthis in one of my, um, book
groups this morning, but I amnot someone who rates a book
based on, like, um, Like,literary points.
(20:40):
You know what I mean?
Like, I don't, I don't care ifyou're, you know, your book is
lacking some, like, somecharacter development or
whatever.
Like, I just enjoy a bookbecause I enjoy a book.
Yeah.
So, for me, it was a five.
Yeah,
Kristine (20:53):
I loved it too.
I'm also giving it a five, thatone.
I could probably read again, tobe honest, because I feel like I
would learn more about eachcharacter each time.
Yep.
Yeah, I loved it.
Okay.
So that was our September book.
Again, that was the perfectmarriage.
Um,
Carrie (21:10):
it was great.
It was really good.
So October.
Yeah.
So I am the one who's pickingthe next book, which I'm very
excited about.
I was torn whether I wanted todo, uh, like a romance again, or
stick to kind of this thrillergenre.
And honestly, there's a bookthat I really want to read
(21:32):
that's a thriller, so I pickedit.
Um, it's called None of This isTrue by Lisa Jewell.
Um, it's a psychologicalthriller, which I'm really
excited about.
It's about a woman who findsherself the subject of her own
popular true crime podcast.
So this book looks fantastic.
Really excited.
(21:52):
Um, some of the reviews arelike, I'm speechless after
reading this bone chilling,dark, twisty, mind bending
thriller.
I love it.
Kristine (21:59):
Yeah.
I'm excited.
Carrie (22:00):
Yeah.
So I.
I'm very excited to read it.
Um, our episode for this clubwill be.
The 29th of October.
That's perfect.
Yeah, that's when it'll be, uh,published on the old...
Published, I like that.
Um, so you guys have that monthto read it.
(22:22):
Don't worry, we'll be postingthe book all over our socials so
that you don't forget what it isand reminding you guys and all
of that good stuff.
Kristine (22:30):
Yeah, I love it.
I'm very excited to read thisbook.
Um, I think that's it.
That's all, eh?
I do.
Okay, okay.
All right, you guys have thebest, uh, month and we'll talk
to you soon.
See you in a month.
Okay.
Okay, bye.
Thank you so much for listening.
You can download our episodesand listen to them anywhere
(22:50):
where you listen to yourpodcasts as well as our website,
www.
twobabespodcast.
com.
That's two with the number two.
You can also send us listenerquestions on our Instagram, two
babes podcast, as well as ouremail.
Hello at two babes podcast.
com.
Have a great rest of your day.
Bye.
Oh, hey, it's Christine.
I poked that up already.
Let's start.
Let's start over.
Okay.
Carrie (00:12):
Okay.
Oh, hey, it's Christine and it'sKeri.
We're best friends.
And we are the owners ofLavender and Lace Boutique, an
online women's boutique basedout of Sherwood Park, Alberta.
And we started a podcast just tohear ourselves talk.
We really did.
Yeah.
So, uh, welcome to our secondbook club episode.
Yes! We're so excited.
(00:33):
So excited.
Kristine (00:34):
This book was so
Carrie (00:36):
good.
So good.
I loved it.
I did too.
Really easy to read.
Yes.
Like caught me from thebeginning, which is always a big
thing for me.
Um, and I never felt like it waslagging.
No.
I really, really liked
Kristine (00:49):
it.
There was something happening.
Every time I picked up my yes.
It was very intriguing.
It was
Carrie (00:55):
really good.
So if you didn't know the bookthat we were reading was called
the perfect marriage by GenevaRose and it was fantastic.
I know we've said that I just Ireally enjoyed it.
Christine and I actually justfinished it.
Yeah, I didn't want to read thisbook too early because I didn't
want to forget parts of it whenwe wanted to talk about it.
(01:15):
Agreed.
Um, especially like names andstuff.
I'm you.
Like, once I go into a new book,the old book is like, she gone.
Agreed, a hundred percent.
She gone.
Same with me.
And the thing that I found themost interesting about this book
is I thought it was someonedifferent constantly.
I was suspicious
Kristine (01:35):
of every single character.
Me too.
And I'm not even talking aboutlike the main ones.
I'm talking about like thebarista.
Yeah.
Like, everybody was suspiciousto me.
Everybody did something
Carrie (01:46):
bad.
Yeah.
So I, I thought it was, so Ithought it was Sarah first.
Yeah.
I was suspicious of her at thebeginning and I'll get to why in
a second, but I was, she was theone I was the most suspicious
about at the beginning, but thenthey just started throwing more
people in at you.
Like then I thought maybe Adamactually did do it because like,
(02:09):
where was the blood on his, howdid he have no blood on him when
he was laying right next to her?
dead.
Yes.
You know, like we talked aboutlast night, like, how did he
not?
It's funny because Christine andI talked about this book for a
little, quite a while lastnight, but we hadn't finished it
yet.
Right.
So it was, you know, yeah.
And then, like Bob, once wefound out he was the brother in
(02:29):
law.
That was wild.
And then Anne, I thought it washer for a bit.
I thought she was like in lovewith Sarah or something.
Kate, that's
Kristine (02:36):
where I was going to.
I agree.
I thought something was goingsideways with that and it made
sense to me that she would have,like, I don't know.
It just, it made sense at thatmoment.
Um, and then there was othercharacters that came into play
like that, uh, Jesse Hook, likehe was obsessed with, um, with
(02:57):
Kelly.
That one
Carrie (02:58):
seemed too easy though.
Yeah, but then I was like, butmaybe.
But maybe.
Yeah,
Kristine (03:02):
because no one knew of him and he was very sus with his
burner phone and why did youhave a burner phone if you're
just yeah if you're just uh inlove with this person why did
you have some a phone that wecan't get a hold of you on yeah
you know what I mean like yeahwhy So there was, there was ways
that it could have been him.
Yeah, and then the sheriff.
(03:22):
Oh my god.
I...
Well, he was so
Carrie (03:24):
wishy washy.
And I told you last night whenwe were walking, I'm like, he's
the third DNA sample.
Like I just felt it in my bones,which he was, but he still
wasn't the murderer.
Kristine (03:32):
Nope.
He was just boinking her.
Yeah.
I
Carrie (03:37):
mean, she, apparently she was boinking everybody.
She was boinking everybody.
And then, and then for a bit, Ithought maybe it was Matthew.
Yeah.
For the same reason I thought ofAnne.
I thought maybe he was in lovewith Sarah and maybe he just,
Kristine (03:49):
you know.
Because he was, he's gay in thebook.
Yeah.
And, and, uh, for quite sometime, well, they did talk about
it a lot, that he is, um, has avery close relationship with
Sarah.
And Adam was, little bitsuspicious of him.
Yeah.
So I was like, this, this canmake sense.
Like being gay could be hisbeard and he's actually,
(04:11):
actually secretly in love withSarah.
And like, you know, there's justsome sort of coverage there.
It made sense.
All of these.
Suspicions made sense.
Oh, she
Carrie (04:22):
made it so that you were suspicious of every single
character.
Every single one.
She managed to make yoususpicious of every single
person in this book.
100%.
But Sarah was my OG.
And the reason being is becausewhen I was reading about Sarah,
I saw a lot of me in her.
Yeah, okay.
Like, her personality, her like,type A, her like, you know, her,
(04:44):
Just a lot of things about herand I was like, there is no way
this woman does not know herhusband is cheating on her.
There is just no way that youcan be that way in your life and
not know your husband issleeping with someone else.
Yeah.
And so I was like, you know,like there's just to me, she's
(05:04):
so observant.
She's a lawyer.
She's like, she's a criminallawyer.
Yeah.
Her whole job is to decide ifpeople are lying or not.
Like, there's just no way.
So, I just felt like she knew.
And, wow.
But it twists you.
It did.
It twisted it.
It did, because I becamesuspicious of everybody.
Yeah.
And, the author did such anamazing job with the Sarah
(05:29):
chapters, making you not.
No
Kristine (05:32):
making yes, you had no idea like the arguments between
her and Bob and her and Kent herboss everything was so Solid
there was no holes in the storyat all And you know what shook
me to the court like they'rejust jumping around to
characters.
There was nothing Hudson wasvery suspicious The entire time
(05:57):
because he was kind of a dickand smug, but nothing came of
him nothing.
He's just a smug dick He wasjust there to throw you off.
Yes, and he did.
Yeah, and I felt very suspiciousof Sarah at the very beginning
because like you're reallydefending your husband at this
moment Yeah, there's so manyconflicts of interest in my
opinion, but like you're doingit anyway But her story, going
(06:21):
back to having no holes, it mademe feel like she was just
genuinely trying to do her job.
Yeah.
Because she is the best of thebest.
Yeah.
So I was like, okay, you are thebest of the best.
Eleanor, the mom, went to otherlawyers, said no, Sarah is the
best of the best.
This is it go with her.
Yeah, and so I I really sidedwith that.
(06:43):
Yeah, I was like you're rightShe is the best.
Let's win this thing.
But that's why she got away withit.
Carrie (06:48):
Exactly She is the best.
She is the best and I just lovedthat.
Yeah, it was it was a reallyreally good book And when I got
to the 11 years later, yeah, andshe went To see him in prison.
I was like you did it.
Yeah, you
Kristine (07:05):
did it.
You did it.
You did it.
You
Carrie (07:07):
did it.
Yeah.
And then, you know, you kind ofdidn't find out right away.
And she was saying goodbye tohim.
And then she gets out to the carand it's Bob fucking Bob fucking
Bob.
The whole time I was readingthis book.
I thought Bob was like this oldfat man.
Me too.
Me too.
100 percent But I guess not Bob.
Bob's
Kristine (07:25):
her lover.
Bob's she's into Bob.
Good for you.
And they have a daughter.
Sure.
Yeah.
Okay.
Summer.
Yeah.
Which was funny.
I really liked, um, the way thatshe said to Adam, I know for a
fact that you didn't kill her.
And then I was like, you slylittle girl.
You did it, Yes.
(07:49):
And like, that was crazy.
The revenge factor on that wasintense.
Yes.
Like, so intense.
She
Carrie (07:56):
spent eleven years waiting for him to die after she
set him up.
That's crazy.
And I'm sure when she did it,she never expected him to get
the death penalty because shewould have no reason to know
that Kelly was pregnant.
No, and that's the only reasonit became right because I'm
execution because it was adouble homicide It was a wild
time.
It was so
Kristine (08:17):
good.
I loved
Carrie (08:18):
everything about it Yeah, and then I was like
thinking about like that night.
He came home after After shekilled Kelly and he came home
and she's like, let's make ababy.
You never wanted to make it No,you just wanted to twist his
mind.
Yeah, she she was just playingthat fucking game in the
beginning.
Yeah
Kristine (08:37):
The whole time.
Yeah.
And I loved it.
Yeah.
When, later on though, I didhave a question.
It was a little bit of a, not awhole, but it didn't give me an
answer or maybe I missed it.
Um, later on she was sleepingat, she was in bed and then
somebody came into the room.
I think it was Bob.
You think it was Bob?
Yeah.
(08:57):
Okay.
Yeah.
Cause I thought it was Matthew.
That's another thing that Ithought, that's why, like, it
could have been him.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it wasBob.
Now thinking back, yes, thatmakes a hundred
Carrie (09:09):
percent sense.
I'm Relationship is secret.
He just came in in the night,did their thing, did their thing
and he
Kristine (09:17):
left.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah.
Okay.
I have a couple questions.
You want to do a handful?
Sure.
A handful?
Okay.
Um, let's Okay, this is a kindof a Wild question.
Sarah and Adam both had secretsthey kept from each other.
Is this unusual in a marriage?
(09:38):
Is it ever okay to keep secretsin a lie when in a relationship?
In general, what do you thinkthe motive?
What do you think motivatespeople to lie?
Do you think the characters werelying to themselves?
Oh, that's a good question.
Carrie (09:51):
That is a good question.
Um, Lies?
No.
No.
I don't like that.
No.
I, I think that the only way tohave a solid relationship is to
have trust in each other.
So as soon as you start lying,like lying, Yeah.
I'm not saying, like, you go toMcDonald's on lunch and you
(10:12):
don't tell your husband that youbought McDonald's for lunch.
I'm not talking about that.
I know.
I'm talking about lying.
Big lies.
No, I don't think you should belying in your relationship.
Kristine (10:21):
And, I know this says marriage, but I think a
relationship, regardless of it,lying is not okay.
No.
And is it ever okay to keepsecrets when in a relationship?
Carrie (10:35):
Not necessarily.
No, but I guess, so in hersituation, she knew he was
cheating on her.
Right.
And she, I'm not justifyinggetting your husband killed
because he cheated on you, justto be clear.
But um, he, she kept that secretfrom him because she wanted to
set him up.
(10:56):
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
So like, they had secrets fromeach other, But I think it
started with him.
Agreed.
I think he started that.
And then, you know, if you feellike your partner or whomever is
lying to you, of course you'regoing to start to, like, be
secretive.
Kristine (11:13):
Yes.
And her, her childhood was sodark.
So dark.
That I feel like she didn'tknow, she might know the
difference between right andwrong because she's a lawyer.
However, she, She doesn't knowit for herself because of the
way she
Carrie (11:27):
lived.
Yeah, and like, plot twist, shekilled her mom.
Kristine (11:30):
Yeah, that was nuts.
Like, yeah, that was, thatreally took me for a ride there.
I was like, you did what?
Carrie (11:37):
Sorry?
And like, when she was like, Ijust couldn't.
Like I was working all my freetime to try to like support my
mom while she was just like anaddict an addict like Not again.
I'm not justifying murderingsomeone but I do I do see what
yeah.
Kristine (11:56):
Yeah.
Yeah and then for the questionof What do you think motivates
people to lie?
I think it's fear.
Yeah, I think that's I thinkthat's a big one.
Yeah
Carrie (12:09):
Yeah, fear is a big one Um, like Just not being happy
and not, again, but that goesback to fear, not being happy
and not being, like, willing tostep up and be like, I'm not
happy with this.
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Yeah, he started cheating on herbecause obviously he was looking
for something that they didn'thave in their marriage.
(12:30):
Agreed.
But he just didn't have theballs to say, hey, I'm not
happy.
Kristine (12:35):
Yeah, they both did the exact same thing to each
other and lived with it, which,It's a huge secret in itself,
like it's wild.
Yeah, yeah.
And a huge lie.
Yeah.
Yeah, they just were not beinghonest with each other
whatsoever.
Um, how, oh no, I don't
Carrie (12:55):
like that question.
And it also interests me nowthat Bob and Sarah are like
starting their life together andLike, they started their
relationship, like, murderingsomeone.
Right?
Like,
Kristine (13:09):
how bizarre.
Oh, wow.
And, and public arguments andfights in the office.
Throw you off?
And they did.
They really threw me.
And, like, I questioned, like,when did their relationship
actually start?
Like, you know, did it, youknow, did it start because
Carrie (13:29):
of it?
It sounds like it.
It sounded like it based on herexplanation.
Yeah, cuz it sounds like Bob cuzBob was digging into Kelly right
and then he found it by accidentand I feel like that Like that
Kristine (13:43):
was the kickoff.
Yeah, was it before cuz likeAnne would bitch about Bob, and
Sarah would bitch about Bob, wasit before or after?
Did the bitching stop after?
Carrie (13:57):
Maybe not.
I mean, if I worked with myhusband, I would probably still
bitch about him to you.
Oh, I do.
Correct.
So, you know, I don't think justbecause they were like together
means that you're not going tobitch about someone.
Fair enough.
But it's so hard to
Kristine (14:11):
say it's so it's so very hard to say Do you think
Sarah's actions are justified?
Carrie (14:18):
Murdering someone innocent to get back at your
husband.
No, no but revenge Of some sort?
Yes.
Kristine (14:33):
Yeah, because he, like, in the book, okay, so he
wasn't a murderer, but he wasn'tin the right.
No.
He was still wrong.
He still did something verywrong.
And so did she, obviously.
Was it justified?
No, definitely shouldn't havemurdered him, but
Carrie (14:51):
like it's not him that it's murdering.
It's murdering
Kristine (14:54):
Kelly Murdering Kelly and letting him die because of
that.
Yeah,
Carrie (14:58):
but like murdering Kelly No, is like the first no.
Kristine (15:02):
Yeah, I don't think it was justified
Carrie (15:05):
in in the real world, no, no No.
Absolutely not.
No.
Do you, do I think you shouldhave some sort, some sort of
revenge?
Well, why not?
Yeah.
I mean, I'm a very, fairlyvengeful person, so I'm, but
like I would never murdersomeone or have my husband
sentenced to
Kristine (15:21):
death because of it.
My, I think, well, I have neverdone it, but I feel like the
most extreme thing I could everdo is maybe egg your house.
Not yours specifically, butsomebody.
Yeah.
Um.
I know you have a camera, soyou'd catch me.
But you know, somebody, like, Ifeel like that's as far as I
could go for revenge.
(15:41):
Like, otherwise, it's a little,Sarah, you went a little crazy.
You went a little crazy, but itwas a really good read.
Okay, were you more sympatheticbetween or towards Sarah or Adam
and why?
Sarah.
Yeah, the whole time.
So I hated Adam.
Oh, he was so freaking wishy
Carrie (15:59):
washy.
I hated him.
He was wishy washy.
He was like, he's likecompletely opposite of anything
I'm attracted to.
So I had a very hard timerelating to him.
Yeah.
He's like, he was very mope.
He was very like, he, like wewere talking about last night.
He like was in bed with Kelly,decided he was leaving his wife
(16:20):
for her.
And then he went home and thenhe was like, Oh, you want to
have a baby?
I love you more now.
Yeah.
And then,
Kristine (16:25):
and then let's throw in the reporter, Rebecca.
He's like, you know what?
I love you.
I love you.
I love you.
I love you.
Everybody.
I love you.
He just didn't care.
Like he just was one person.
No.
bothered him a little bit.
So he's like, I'll go to thenext person.
And then he went to the nextperson.
It was like, you were literallyin the middle of a murder trial.
(16:45):
Your girlfriend who you loved isdead.
Your wife is pissed at you.
She is your lawyer.
And yet you're going to go aftersomebody else and you're just
going to be kissing her forwhat?
For what?
Carrie (16:58):
So weird.
What, what
Kristine (17:01):
are you getting from this?
It's so
Carrie (17:03):
weird.
It was bizarre.
And like, I did, I definitelyfelt for Sarah.
For me, um, when I was readingit with, um, with Adam, I was
like, why are you, why are youletting Rebecca do this
investigating for you and nottrusting your wife?
But shouldn't have trusted yourwife because she wasn't really
(17:23):
looking at your best interest atall.
No, at
Kristine (17:26):
all.
No.
She had a plan and she knew whatwas So
Carrie (17:29):
obviously you knew something was up.
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
But the whole time I was like,you're an idiot, but no, I guess
he wasn't an idiot.
He was, he was actually, uh,investigating because his wife
actually was screwing him Tryingto get
Kristine (17:41):
rid of him.
Yeah.
That was wild.
Um, if, is there anything thatyou would change about the
story?
If you could?
Same.
I really liked it.
I would maybe, Eleanor reallypissed me off, but now in the
end, I'm I feel her judgmenttowards Sarah.
Oh yeah?
You know what I mean?
(18:01):
Like, I feel like she knew Sarahwasn't, just not a good person.
That's fair.
But I, the way she treatedSarah, absolutely not
acceptable.
But I understand her judgmentand her hesitation towards
everything.
That's fair.
In the end.
That's fair.
That's fair.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, uh, She was a, see
Carrie (18:22):
you next Tuesday.
See, I didn't like her, but Iliked her in the book.
Like, I liked having her there.
She definitely added.
So no, I wouldn't changeanything.
I would maybe tone
Kristine (18:30):
her down a bit, but then again, she was really
important to the story andreally made me think about,
like, her, other people'sperspectives of Sarah.
Carrie (18:39):
Yeah,
Kristine (18:40):
exactly.
Um, let me see here.
Do you, this is a little bit ofa dark question, but do you
think, do you truly think thatKelly was...
being abused by her husband.
Um, or was she a girl
Carrie (19:01):
who cried wolf?
I think she was a girl who criedwolf.
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't think she was atall.
I thought it for maybe a bit,but then I realized that, um,
everybody was under theinfluence of, like, Bob and
Sarah.
So, like, anything that was eversaid, I just couldn't trust it.
So, no, I do think she was agirl who cried wolf.
(19:22):
Yeah, I agree.
Because I'm pretty sure she,like, without a doubt, she
murdered her first husband.
Yes.
I
Kristine (19:28):
agree with that.
And then she used like hermagical ways to get Yeah, Scott
her husband to help her and thenyeah,
Carrie (19:38):
and then she cheated on him, too Yeah, and the cycle
just with like also with SheriffStevens.
Yes, you know many people likepotentially more That was just
what was in her in her at onetime.
Yeah, like girl
Kristine (19:54):
Breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
You're
Carrie (19:55):
fucking busy.
Like, that's a busy day.
Kristine (19:58):
That is a busy day.
Breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
Like, when do
Carrie (20:02):
you eat?
When do you get ready?
No, I, right?
Busy,
Kristine (20:05):
busy.
I guess they must have beenreally fast.
Um, what, um, If you're ratingit out of five, Carrie, what
would you give it for yourself?
Carrie (20:17):
Um, five.
Yeah, I agree.
I really liked it.
Um, but I'm also a verygenerous, uh, I'm also a very
generous book reader because I,I'm not one of those people,
it's funny because I was readingthis in one of my, um, book
groups this morning, but I amnot someone who rates a book
based on, like, um, Like,literary points.
(20:40):
You know what I mean?
Like, I don't, I don't care ifyou're, you know, your book is
lacking some, like, somecharacter development or
whatever.
Like, I just enjoy a bookbecause I enjoy a book.
Yeah.
So, for me, it was a five.
Yeah,
Kristine (20:53):
I loved it too.
I'm also giving it a five, thatone.
I could probably read again, tobe honest, because I feel like I
would learn more about eachcharacter each time.
Yep.
Yeah, I loved it.
Okay.
So that was our September book.
Again, that was the perfectmarriage.
Um,
Carrie (21:10):
it was great.
It was really good.
So October.
Yeah.
So I am the one who's pickingthe next book, which I'm very
excited about.
I was torn whether I wanted todo, uh, like a romance again, or
stick to kind of this thrillergenre.
And honestly, there's a bookthat I really want to read
(21:32):
that's a thriller, so I pickedit.
Um, it's called None of This isTrue by Lisa Jewell.
Um, it's a psychologicalthriller, which I'm really
excited about.
It's about a woman who findsherself the subject of her own
popular true crime podcast.
So this book looks fantastic.
Really excited.
(21:52):
Um, some of the reviews arelike, I'm speechless after
reading this bone chilling,dark, twisty, mind bending
thriller.
I love it.
Kristine (21:59):
Yeah.
I'm excited.
Carrie (22:00):
Yeah.
So I.
I'm very excited to read it.
Um, our episode for this clubwill be.
The 29th of October.
That's perfect.
Yeah, that's when it'll be, uh,published on the old...
Published, I like that.
Um, so you guys have that monthto read it.
(22:22):
Don't worry, we'll be postingthe book all over our socials so
that you don't forget what it isand reminding you guys and all
of that good stuff.
Kristine (22:30):
Yeah, I love it.
I'm very excited to read thisbook.
Um, I think that's it.
That's all, eh?
I do.
Okay, okay.
All right, you guys have thebest, uh, month and we'll talk
to you soon.
See you in a month.
Okay.
Okay, bye.
Thank you so much for listening.
You can download our episodesand listen to them anywhere
(22:50):
where you listen to yourpodcasts as well as our website,
www.
twobabespodcast.
com.
That's two with the number two.
You can also send us listenerquestions on our Instagram, two
babes podcast, as well as ouremail.
Hello at two babes podcast.
com.
Have a great rest of your day.
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.