August 8, 2025 • 50 mins
Joy Moore is a highly successful media professional, distinguished writer, and producer. She managed the media impact portfolio for the Annie E. Casey Foundation, a private philanthropy, for many years, was a writer and field producer for Essence in New York City, an Adjunct Professor at Howard University, and currently leads her own media consulting firm. Joy has won a Peabody Award for her exceptional work in radio. And that's just her professional life. Her most important role is that of mom, grandma and mother-in-love to a beautiful family!
Join us in our talk with Joy as she shares the highs, lows and everything in between in her parenting journey which is captured in her insightful book, "The Power of Presence: Be a Voice in Your Child's Ear When You're Not With Them." In her book, Joy shares her pillars for parenting that could help you keep it all together in the midst of navigating your kids and family! You don't want to miss our great conversation with Joy!
Check us out at www.2blackmomsandamic.com.
You can also hear us on Spotify, Amazon Audible, I Heart Radio and Podchaser. If you like what you hear, we hope that you will give us a great review!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Glenda.
And I'm Lisa.
And we are Two Black Moms and aMic.
Between us, we have six kids,four boys and two girls.
And we're here to talk to youabout everything from diapers to
degrees.
Welcome to our podcast.
We're so happy to have as ourguest today Ms.
(00:21):
Joy Moore.
Joy is a distinguished writer,producer, and media
professional.
She's president and CEO of JWSMedia Consulting, and prior to
founding her own media company,she managed the media impact
portfolio for the Annie E.
Casey Foundation, a privatephilanthropy dedicated to
(00:43):
helping build better futures fordisadvantaged children and
families in the United States.
Prior to that, she was a writerand a field producer for
television in New York City,where she worked for Essence.
And in Washington, D.C., for herwork, she earned a Peabody Award
for her documentary work inradio.
(01:03):
She also served as an adjunctprofessor at Howard University.
She earned her bachelor's andmaster's degree from American
University.
And that's her professionallife.
But her most important role isthat of mom, grandma, and
mother-in-love to a beautifulfamily.
She has three children.
That includes our own MarylandGovernor, Wes Moore, and she has
(01:26):
grandchildren.
So she has a very, very fulllife.
And she's here today to shareinsights from her wonderful book
called The Power of Presence.
Be a voice in your child's ear,even when you're not with them.
So thank you so much, Joy.
We're so happy to have youtoday.
Oh, I am so excited to join youboth today.
Thank you so much.
(01:48):
So this is a really powerfultitle with a powerful underlying
theme.
Can you tell us about your book?
Well, originally it was designedto be a love letter.
basically to single moms.
It was during a time wheneveryone was sort of bad
mouthing, you know, single momsand this and that, your kids are
(02:08):
going to be this, they're goingto grow up to be that and
whatever.
And I knew from experience thatthat was wrong.
And I knew from all the many,many thousands of women that I
knew that that was wrong.
So I wanted to show the worldwith this book that single moms
have a power that transcends allof the negativity that was
(02:29):
surrounding them.
I like that.
I don't know.
I think that people always lookfor a scapegoat, you know, a
reason for this.
And so single moms are becauseit is tough.
It is hard.
Yeah.
When you're by yourself,especially if you don't have
sort of the community aroundyou.
Yeah.
It can be difficult.
We probably are stronger.
I think Wes did the forward andhe said single moms are the
(02:53):
backbone of our families.
And so we have to really givethem the respect that they're
due.
I guess single moms is lionessesthroughout, which is just so
pertinent and relevant.
It's weird and true.
Well, it's so funny.
It took maybe six years ofresearching, you know, finding
(03:16):
the moms, finding the variousquotes that I put throughout the
book.
And I always wanted to findsomething that could convey what
a single mom is.
And I finally came up with thelioness.
Yeah.
Because they support each other.
The lion sort of sits around,does whatever he does.
No offense, lion.
(03:39):
But these women who go out,they're the hunters.
And they will leave like onelioness there to watch the kids,
the cubs.
And the rest of them will go outand hunt.
bring the food back to the prideand they eat.
So I said, okay, that's whatsingle moms do.
They support each other.
And so that's why I chose thelioness.
(04:00):
Oh, I didn't even know thatabout the lioness.
She's going out to get the food.
Oh, they're fierce.
I was probably at the grocerystore.
Yeah, no, lions are very fierceand protective.
Yeah, they're cubs of eachother.
(04:23):
That's a wonderful analogy.
I like that a lot.
And I know a lot of single moms,and I take my hat off to them,
and I take my hat off to theendurance that they go through
throughout life without gettingappreciated for it, mostly being
criticized for it.
But you know what's kind ofinteresting?
Black moms who are single getmore criticism than any other
(04:48):
single mom.
Absolutely.
It's interesting.
At my age, I'm looking and I'mthinking, well, wait a minute.
She's got a couple of kids bydifferent daddies.
How come no one's makingcomments about that?
Well, you know, a lot of itstarted sort of, you know, back
when was it Reagan with thewelfare queens.
(05:08):
Yeah.
So, you know, it's sort ofingrained in the culture that
somehow Black women are the oneswho are getting over as opposed
to the fact that other culturesget more welfare and other
things proportionately.
More than we do.
Yes.
Yeah.
That's not the narrative.
No, it's not the narrative.
(05:29):
Yeah.
So again, I thank you forwriting this love letter to
single moms.
Thank you.
I would have known about itmany, many years ago before our
kids wrote it.
So what does it mean to be thevoice in your child's ear?
You know, all the things that wehear, like I quote my mom all
the time.
(05:49):
She passed a few years ago.
She was 95.
I will hear like one thing sheloved saying was, good, better,
best.
Never let it rest until yourgood gets better and your better
gets best.
She was West Indian, right?
So she always had these things.
And so I think that's the kindof thing where you, what can you
(06:09):
leave to your kids that willhelp them be stronger, you know,
be more resilient.
When you're not with them, beingpresent is physically, but also
emotionally and mentally.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah, it's interesting becausemy mom's 88.
And I talk to her like everyday.
And then she used to talk to hermother every day.
(06:31):
And I've got a lot of women inmy side of the family.
And what I find is that evennow...
I'm asking myself, okay, I'm inthis situation.
Like, what would my mom tell, Imean, and I talked to her, but
you know, like, what would shesay?
Or what would, or what wouldHelen, who's my grandmother,
like, what would she think?
So it's the same kind of thing.
(06:52):
Like, you know, I'm thinkingabout what would they think or
what would they tell me?
Or maybe it's, I don't want totell them whatever it is
decision I have to take, butlike, what would they suggest or
what would they tell me to do?
So it carries over forever.
Absolutely.
The values, you know.
Yeah.
Will carry over.
That's why it's so important, Ithink, because they're such
(07:14):
sponges, kids.
Yeah.
Well, I only have the twograndkids, you know, from Wes
and Dawn.
And I watch them and I seethings that they do that I know
that, well, Wes in particularwould have picked up.
Yeah.
You know, along the way.
Yeah.
And it's interesting.
It makes me think about mygrandmother because before cell
(07:34):
phones, I'd call my grandmotheronce a week.
you know, on Sundays, whetherfrom college or from home or
whatever.
But if I missed a week, shewould say to me, oh, I thought
you forgot about me.
And I was like, wait, I'm sorry.
So she insisted on that regularcommunication from me, but she
wasn't going to call me.
It was like, I must call herevery Sunday or else she's going
(07:57):
to throw the guilt thing on me.
I know they were good at doingthat.
UNKNOWN (08:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:04):
They're good at doing that.
I think it's great when you hearyour own kids talk My kids range
from 26 to 34 now.
But it's good when theyacknowledge something that you
instilled in them or you noticethat they're doing something
that you know they got from you.
Right.
Yeah.
And you don't have to sayanything.
(08:26):
You just smile.
Just smile.
Because then you're like, okay,they were listening.
They did understand.
Yeah.
They may have been rebelling atthe time.
They were in middle school.
I won't call out any particularone, but it is wonderful.
You're right.
It's wonderful to be with themphysically, mentally, and
(08:47):
emotionally.
Well, you know, every time,especially with young families,
you know, let's say, whenthey're at that wits end, you
know, with stuff, with, youknow, their teenagers or
whatever.
So just wait it out.
I know it's frustrating.
But, you know, when they get tobe 20, 25, they'll that you
aren't so dumb after all.
(09:07):
Right, exactly.
But during that process, whenthey're in those younger years.
Oh my God, it was a totalnightmare.
I know.
And the fight with social media,that was my worst situation.
And the pressure to want to goout and hang out and be with
friends.
And I'm like, I just lost mymind during those years.
I know, but you know what?
We talk about that, but justspending time recently with kids
(09:31):
from pre-K to 12th grade, Intoday's world, these kids are
attached to those phones unlikeI've ever noticed before.
And see, that's what makes itharder to be a presence to them,
especially at that age, whenthat's more important to them,
you know, what they're hearingon social media than it might be
than anything that we might besaying.
(09:52):
But maybe they are hearing.
I mean, I'm not sure.
Well, you know, I think that alot of times, you know, it's
sort of the whole modelingthing.
I find myself doing thatsometimes, right?
I have the phone in my hand.
And we're supposed to be havingdinner or having conversation.
And so putting down the phone,especially like with girlfriends
or that kind of thing, puttingdown the phone sort of shows
(10:14):
that lesson that we don't haveto be attached to it.
Now it's tougher being a youngperson right now.
Yeah, I think so too.
Like before, if you didn't havea whole lot of money, people
weren't telling you, you know,24-7 that you're poor.
Yeah, that's for sure.
But now it's like you see it onTV, you know, this and that you
(10:34):
wanted and all of a sudden, wow,I'm really disadvantaged.
Now it's harder.
That's true.
And so the power of presence iseven more important, I think,
now for parents to read Yeah,yeah.
(11:13):
You've got to kind of changethat a little bit because I'm
worried about your attentionspan.
I'm worried about you notunderstanding the conversation
that's going on on the table.
Even if it's above your head,you're still going to pick up
something.
Or you not being, as a parent,being engaged with your child to
let them know that they'reimportant.
You're out to dinner, butthey're important.
(11:34):
They're important enough for youto sit there with and talk about
whatever they want to talkabout, right?
And even with adult kids,though, like...
we'd go out to dinner and Robwill be like, oh, I can't put
her phone away.
I'm like, oh my God.
But even I find myself, I'mlike, oh my God, no, I can't
just put it away.
(11:54):
But yeah, you have to make aconscious effort to engage.
You may have a hard time puttingthe phone down.
Glenda knows because not only doI have my phone, but I also keep
my stupid iPad with me in mypurse.
We're all getting used to thistechnology, even though it's
(12:15):
been around for a long time.
But again, when I see afour-year-old with a cell phone,
that bothers me a bit.
It's not my kids, not mygrandkid, but it bothers me.
Especially, I'm concernedbecause you can't recognize the
letters that we're trying toteach you in preschool.
But you know how to go on thephone and do just about
anything.
(12:35):
Well, it's sort of almost areplacement babysitter.
You don't want to engage with athing, with a machine,
especially with AI right now.
Yeah, AI is kind of scary.
It's becoming more and moreimportant to engage.
Yes.
To be present.
Yeah, the power of presence.
So that brings us to your sevenpillars, mind, heart, faith,
(12:56):
courage, resources,connectedness, and value.
So do you consider themparenting principles?
Well, for me, I mean, in thewhole sort of process of writing
the book, I had to just reallysit down.
What was it that helped me?
And these are the ones that sortof came to mind and that I could
sort of make a sense of and findfolks to come into those
(13:21):
categories.
They may be for other people,but for me, these were the
things that worked.
I wanted to actually start withcourage because there's so much
going on that families areexperiencing now.
And you quoted Maya Angelou thatcourage is the most important of
all the virtues because withoutcourage, you can't practice any
(13:42):
other virtue consistently.
What is courage to you and whyis that important as part of
parenting journey?
Well, I think particularly nowwith all the challenges and the
chaos that's going on in theworld, it's so easy to sort of
want to just put the covers overyour head and stay there.
But courage is being able tosay, okay, I have got to put one
(14:06):
foot in front of the other andkeep going and figure it out.
How am I going to make endsmeet?
How am I going to respond toperhaps a challenging child?
And that's courage.
It takes all the other things,all the other, the mind, the
heart, resources, connectedness,values.
It sort of envelops all of thosethings.
(14:28):
Yeah.
Because you can't do those otherthings if you're not courageous
enough to try.
When my husband passed, it wasthe kids made me have to put one
foot in front of the other andnot decide that, you know, I was
going to lose myself in mygrief.
Yeah.
You're a lioness protecting yourcubs.
(14:49):
That's right.
Because we will do anything forour cubs.
And to have the courage, though,just to move forward.
you know, to sort of startafresh or start anew.
I mean, it does take a lot ofcourage.
Yeah.
Well, you know, one of the momsthat I interviewed, Una, her
husband was a fireman and hedied on 9-11.
Yeah, I remember reading that.
(15:10):
Well, this is sort of why all ofthese seven pillars, you know,
intersect, because it was herfaith that finally gave her the
courage to move forward.
But also it was the communityaround her because for a while
she sort of lost her faith.
Because she wasn't, you know,how in the world could this
happen?
She had twins and, you know,newborns and another daughter.
(15:33):
So it's the kids, having thecommunity, having that support.
Because parenting is, you cannotdo it alone.
You need somebody.
You need something.
And the courage piece is key inparenting.
And resilience.
You have to have it.
It's a lot to take on.
It's a lot to be responsiblefor.
And nobody gives you a class onparenting.
(15:56):
The hardest job in the world.
There is no class.
There's no class.
No.
It's a lot of trial by error.
We made the decision to let ourdaughter go to boarding school.
And for me, in the face of, Idon't want to say lack of
support, but skepticism, youknow, by members of my family.
(16:17):
But I knew that that was bestfor her.
But I was scared to death, youknow, dropping my kid off,
hoping that everything would beokay.
I mean, I put her in a greatsituation, but you never know
because I'm used to like, she'supstairs, I'm in the kitchen,
you know, like, you know whereall of your parts are, right?
And so even though I knew, youknow, where my part was supposed
(16:39):
to be, I could only pray thatshe's actually there.
Glenda remembers.
I mean, that was very, very hardfor me.
And even another friend of mine,she goes, why are you doing
that?
Black people don't do that.
There's a lot of judgment.
And I was like, you're right.
Black people don't do that.
What am I doing?
But in the end, she's better forit.
I don't know if I'm necessarilybetter for it because I was very
(16:59):
stressed out.
But once you saw her thriving.
Yeah.
After we got past a couple, youknow, one or two hurdles.
I mean, in the end, it was thebest thing that we could have
done for her.
Well, that's what we did withWes.
Wes was in boarding school.
Military school.
And he probably hated me for awhile.
But it was the best thing forhim.
(17:20):
And like you.
It was, well, how could I dothis?
I mean, we didn't allow guns inthe house.
You know, my husband, my latehusband and I, we just didn't
give him that stuff.
And the thought of militaryschool was so frightening.
You know, what is he going tocome out as?
So what it did was it reallyhoned his leadership.
And so it was the best thing forhim then.
(17:42):
But you're right.
It takes courage.
It takes courage.
And it takes to have someone inyour corner who understands why
you're doing this to protectyour child.
Yeah.
And is the best thing for yourchild.
You live with your child.
You know your child.
Yeah.
Unlike anyone else.
And yeah, Black people don'tnormally send their kids to
boarding school.
UNKNOWN (18:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:03):
But you know what?
A lot of it is we didn't knowabout.
(18:33):
Right.
So she grew a lot from it.
And you can be just as present,even if in boardings.
I was up at Valley Forge justabout every week.
So was Lisa.
I knew she was going to saythat.
She was there a lot.
Really?
See, I mean, you know, peopleknew my name already.
She'd be calling me from the caron my way.
(18:56):
I'm like, oh, my God.
See, you can always be present.
I'm going up there right now.
I'm like, just let me know whenyou arrive so I know you're
(19:19):
safe.
Your values and your courage toprotect your child.
That's right.
Well, let's look at anothermother, Susan Taylor, that I
(19:41):
interviewed.
She's part of this multi, youknow, million dollar enterprise
and she's editor in chief anddoing all these things.
And she finally realized thatwhen she came home, she was not
leaving the office.
And she said once she startedrealizing that and coming home
and asking her daughter, well,how was your day?
(20:02):
And just spending time.
And, you know, until she went tobed, her academics changed.
She became valedictorian.
And she was having problemsbefore.
That child knowing that theyhave your full attention in that
moment.
We're adults.
We have to figure it out.
You know, if you have a messyboss or situation at work or
(20:23):
whatever.
That's not the kid's problem.
Yeah.
So we shouldn't bring that homein that sense.
Yeah.
I think I struggled with thatbecause I felt underappreciated
at work.
And then you walk in the doorand you're like, I don't
appreciate it.
I'm like, wait, does anybodylike it?
Let me call Glenda.
She'll make me feel better aboutmyself.
(20:46):
No, that is so right.
Yeah.
I know.
I was dying for somebody to giveme an award of some kind from
somebody.
I know, right?
I remember reading this book,The Price of Motherhood, and I'm
like, okay, I don't like it.
But it is what it is.
And you brought them into thisworld.
Yeah.
(21:06):
As my kids remind me every nowand then.
Yeah.
Well, my fault.
Well, one thing I'd like to...
Technically.
I just sort of feel repaid.
I shouldn't say repaid.
That's not the right way to sayit.
But when I broke my ankle about,what, three years ago?
Oh, yeah.
It only came.
Yes.
And my daughter came and tookcare of me.
Rob was here.
But, you know, she came and tookcare of me for like four days.
(21:30):
And then she left.
UNKNOWN (21:32):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (21:32):
She left on like a Friday.
And then Saturday morning, thedoorbell is ringing.
And I'm like, Rob, go get thedoor.
I don't know who it is.
She came back.
The next day, she's living inNew York, came back the next
day, flew back because she wasconcerned that her not being
there, I wouldn't havesufficient care.
In other words, she was nervousthat Rob wasn't going to be
(21:54):
there.
That's my everything.
And so I was like, you knowwhat?
This is why, I shouldn't saythis is why you have kids, but
that made me feel really good.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
That's because of the care yougave her.
That's sweet.
I thought you were driving hercrazy, but she also knew who was
(22:14):
in her corner.
When you needed someone in hercorner, you were always there in
her corner, and she knew that.
I was not surprised that shecame and hung out with you.
I know.
I called Glenn.
I was like, God, guess what?
I can't believe Emma came back.
And I guess, you know, as you'regoing through the process of
parenting, you don't expect thekids to do that, and you can't
(22:37):
expect it.
But it sure is nice when itcomes.
It is nice when it comes.
They're bossing you around.
I got COVID.
I was losing my mind.
I'm like, how did I get this?
I didn't want this.
What happened?
I stayed five years withoutthis.
But my daughter was there takingcare of me.
She was.
And ordering me around andtelling me to sleep.
(22:57):
I'm like, she says soundsfamiliar, doesn't it?
No comment.
Power of presence.
Right.
Well, that brings us actually tothe mind pillar.
And the principle there seems tobe, don't be afraid to share
your children and to promotethem having mentors in their
(23:17):
lives.
And why is that important?
Well, we can't be everything toour kids.
As much as I try, I could neverbe a father to my son or to my
daughters.
My brother, for example, myyounger brother, I know that the
relationship that he had withWes, for example, was one that I
(23:38):
could trust and he would tellhim anything.
In fact, he was his best manwhen he got married, but he
would always come and tell me.
So I knew what was still goingon.
But, you know, having mentorslike in his case, again, Mayor
Schmoke, he's the one who Gatessaid took him when he interned
with him one summer and he said,look at this picture, you know,
(23:59):
and he showed him his, thepicture of him in his Rhodes
class.
And he said, have you everthought about the Rhodes
scholarship?
Yeah.
That was the scene.
My daughter, she majored insociology.
She interned and she realizedshe got too emotionally involved
to be in that, but she loved toshop and she could be, she's got
(24:20):
her own business now.
She's a personal shopper andevent planner.
It's having, you know, thosepeople who you trust to be
around your kids and thosepeople whose traits you don't
want in your child.
I've done that.
I've kept people away.
Yeah.
No comments.
(24:40):
You want your child to reflectthe values that you have.
And so you have to bring peoplein with those values.
Yeah.
Yeah, because it's important forpeople to see the goodness or
the greatness in your childother than you.
And to bring that out and toexpose them to what could be.
Because I think we can't be allthings, I guess, to our
(25:01):
children.
Right.
Even though we try.
It's exhausting.
Yeah.
And it's not good self-care forus either, although sometimes we
forget about our own self-care.
Well, I got my nails doneyesterday.
I'm getting back to it.
I used to do what I used to callthe triangle day.
(25:22):
I don't know if you saw it inthe book, but when things are
really, you know, hairy andstuff, I would say, okay, I shut
down and I would take a day.
And I know all moms can't dothis, but you can do variations
of the theme.
I would go home.
I would go from my bed to thebathroom to the kitchen all day
long.
That's all I would do.
I would, if I wanted to read, ifI wanted to do whatever, I would
(25:44):
watch TV, whatever I wanted todo.
And the kids knew that if theyneeded me, they would call
twice.
I knew it was them.
Yeah.
Okay.
And this is before, you know,before cell phones and, you
know, caller IDs and all thatkind of stuff.
So yeah, you have to take careof yourself.
And if it means going to getyour nails done, get your nails
(26:07):
done.
That's true.
I remember putting myself intime out when my kids were, they
weren't too little, but maybethey were in law school or
preschool or whatever.
And it was summer and they werehome and it was just a lot going
on.
And then I looked and I said,Mommy's going in a timeout.
Yes.
What did you do?
I didn't do anything.
(26:32):
But before I do do something,I'm going to go in timeout.
That's right.
That is cute.
I'm going to go dig in some dirtor something.
So you'll know, you'll see me.
But I'm in timeout for like 30minutes.
And unless it's an emergency,you can't bother me.
(26:53):
They're like, okay.
That's a good one.
Yeah, I literally would putmyself in time out.
Because it was something theycould understand.
Right, right.
You know?
I liked it trying all day, too.
Right.
The kids are like, oh, poor mom.
She's in time out.
Yeah.
But it makes it into, oh.
(27:15):
I should take up that towel.
I mean, what?
I'm going to be in time out fora little bit.
I mean, because there were fourof them.
Yeah.
Four total differentpersonalities.
Yeah.
Sometimes I needed to be intime.
That's right.
It's either that or putting themout.
And again, I brought them intothe world, as my children tell
(27:39):
me every now and then.
So another pillar is the heart,having heart.
And I think you wrote, havingheart is to showcase compassion,
empathy, humility, forgiveness,putting all that is human in
someone or something.
I guess that's putting yourheart into someone else.
(27:59):
What meaning does that carry foryou?
Well, I think once you put yourheart into your kids, they then
learn how to put their heartinto other people.
Empathy, I think, is one of themost important things.
that anyone can have, not just,you know, your children, but in
terms of, you know, a spouse ora coworker.
(28:22):
If people can't see themselvesin what you're going through, we
could have all kinds of chaos.
Things will be done thatcompletely are devoid of
compassion because there is noempathy about what other people
are going through.
That is so true.
It's one of the things that theystress in the School of Social
(28:43):
Work.
is to understand when you'rewith a client, whether that
client is an adult or a child,to be empathetic to what their
situation is, what's going onwith them.
And I think this world rightnow, well, this country is
really missing that value.
There's a lot of empathymissing.
Not to be confused withsympathy, okay?
(29:03):
Right.
Not to be confused.
There's two very, very differentthings.
Very, very different things.
And there was a part in yourbook, too, where I think You had
a lot of, you were working atEssence and you were doing other
extra work and you were justlike working constantly, which I
totally relate to, doing a lot.
Things are chaotic at home.
(29:25):
I remember Robbie, he would, youknow, I'd be working late at,
Robbie calling up, you need toget home.
You got to help these kids.
Got to do homework.
So then I would get home.
I'd be like, Robbie, I know youstarted your homework, right?
It's like 730.
He goes, no, no, no.
I was waiting for you to gethome before I started.
That was like his theme all thetime.
Oh no, I was waiting for you toget home and then we can start.
(29:47):
And I guess you experienced thesame thing where you cutbacks.
Yeah, I had to.
Create your boundaries.
Now you were doing a lot there.
But understandably, because yourworld had changed and you had a
mission that you were on to makesure that Nikki and you were
going to be okay.
And that takes money.
And at that point, I had threekids in some kind of private
(30:10):
school.
And had it not been for myparents, when it came for Weston
and Valley Forge, they took asecond mortgage to help me that
first year, you know, until Icould sort of figure it all out.
Finished paying what I was owedfor his current school.
But the investment paid off.
I know we cry all the time aboutall the money we spent from
(30:34):
private school tuition.
Yeah.
I have no regrets in terms ofthat.
I just wish all kids could havethe kind of education that
private schools have.
Amen to that.
If the other Wes had had halfthe opportunities that my Wes
had, he's a smart guy.
Yeah, he was very bright.
(30:54):
Yeah.
Yeah, he was a very bright guy.
I mean, as opposed to nowspending the rest of his life in
prison and being cared for andnot contributing, that's what
equity is all about.
Bringing opportunities foreveryone so that someone down,
you know, in the middle ofBaltimore is going to cure
cancer.
(31:14):
But we won't know that becausehe's never had the opportunity
to do it.
Well, even the other Westmore'smom.
Remember, he was in college.
If I remember right, she lostthe money.
Well, she was the first in herfamily to graduate from high
school.
Right.
Then she went to junior collegeor community college.
She was so smart.
(31:34):
She got into Johns Hopkins.
Yes, right.
She was at Hopkins.
But again, this is where publicpolicy comes in and which is
what's happening, you know,could happen if the Pell Grants
were cut.
So she couldn't afford to go toHopkins.
So she had to have a job thattook her out of the house and
her boys were trying to helpsupplement and they supplemented
(31:56):
in the wrong way.
And they that's what happened.
He was a really bright kid.
Really?
And his mom was trying to do theright thing.
She was trying to up her game.
And then money or lack ofresources kind of stopped it.
Not having other resources tohelp her figure out how to get
(32:16):
it a different way.
Because there's no one theredoing educational consulting for
people in the inner city.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Because I've heard of, you know,from other counselors, we could
have figured out a way.
But she didn't have thewherewithal, the opportunity
herself to find another way.
To find another way.
So, yeah, mind, heart, faith.
(32:37):
She loved her boys.
That's right.
She was really trying to makethem do the right thing.
But making money the fast way,just sometimes.
I mean, I had a nephew tell methat one.
Very smart, very smart.
And I said, well, why don't youjust focus on school and not be
involved in whatever you'reinvolved in, in Wisconsin?
(32:57):
And he said, Aunt Glenda, I seethat, you know, you came from
the inner city, you went toschool, you're moving ahead
here.
He said, but you know, it's afaster way to get that kind of
money.
You get 11 years in jail.
So environment and behaviormatters.
And that's actually one thingtoo, in terms of parenting, it's
(33:18):
good to have your child as sortof a partner in the discussions.
You know, we have to do thisbecause, you know, we need to do
this or the money or whatever,but never putting the
responsibility on them to do it.
And I think that happens a lot.
If they can, you know, learn howto be a proper partner in that
(33:41):
whole situation.
I think we would have fewincidents of kids going, being
the lone ranger and I'm going tosupport the family and that kind
of thing.
That's sad.
I know, you're like a teenager.
I'm going to be the man of thehouse.
Exactly.
But you went behind the ears.
Your frontal lobe hasn't evendeveloped.
(34:03):
I know, that's sad.
You make some 12, 13-year-old.
Call me when you're 26, whenit's not developed.
Well, that's again what, youknow, some people will say that.
You know, to the kid, you got tobe the man of the house now.
No, no, no, no.
That person does not need to bein your ear.
Right.
That's one of those people youdon't need to have around.
That's right.
(34:23):
But culturally, that's somethingthat kids hear all the time.
That's right.
And then they take a path thatthey've seen other people take,
but they don't pay attention towhat happens on the other end of
that path.
Right.
Because they're in the moment.
So the next pillar that we wantto touch on is the faith pillar.
And you said that the presenceof faith is your go-to more than
(34:43):
any other pillar.
So what is the faith pillar andwhy is that health special
support for you?
Well, I think if we don't havefaith that there's a better
tomorrow, there won't be abetter tomorrow.
Well, again, I'll take mysituation.
When my husband passed, it was,I never expected it.
(35:03):
I mean, you know, at 32, Ialways thought we would be
walking down the street holdinghands when we were 75 years old.
And in that case, I think it'smore spirituality, but you know,
whatever your belief system is.
That somehow, if you just do theright things, if you incorporate
these other values, if you'represent with your kid, you give
(35:24):
them as many opportunities asyou can, things will work out.
And that's faith.
Because you also talk aboutfaith and not necessarily as a
specific religious principle.
Like you talk about ways toinstill faith in your children
that are not necessarily likebiblical.
Like you teach your children tobe grateful for what they have.
(35:45):
teach your children there's aspiritual being that's bigger
than themselves and help yourchildren keep their eye on the
future and be your brother andsister's keeper.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And that piece about somethingbigger than yourself.
Yeah.
And that's when you, you know,the whole notion of being a
steward of the values.
(36:05):
You're going to be the one whois going to help people on
Thanksgiving.
Yeah.
Or you are going to help thatchild read as a tutor.
So being in that public serviceis so important because once
kids get so focused on, I'mgoing to be the best this, I'm
going to be best that, without,devoid of that spirituality,
(36:27):
then they grow up sort ofredless.
Do you think it's hard toinstill some element of
spirituality in children whenthey're before high school?
I guess, I mean, I guess youjust keep talking to them.
It's the way you treat people.
Okay.
The way, the empathy.
Even little kids, they havethese experiments where you have
(36:48):
two little kids.
One, you give maybe four or fivepieces of candy or something.
And the other one, you givemaybe one or none.
And you see whether or not theone with the four or five is
going to share.
Sharing.
Sharing is empathy.
Yeah.
You have to start as early asyou can.
Right.
(37:08):
Because it kind of feeds intothis whole social emotional
learning that we're into rightnow.
Because to try to teach kidsthree, four and up to be able to
communicate.
And the way that theycommunicate, not hold a lecture,
but they communicate throughplay or they communicate through
sharing.
And the importance of that andthe importance of, like I held a
(37:30):
gratitude workshop with my highschool kids.
Like, what are you grateful for?
And it doesn't have to bebecause I got a new Xbox.
Something that we have to, Ithink we took maybe as a
granite.
For granted, when we weregrowing up, because it was kind
of in our system, our parentswere talking about it, and we
saw different things, whereright now I don't think that's
(37:53):
happening as much.
Yeah, I wonder if that's asimportant to parents anymore,
like the sort of faith pillar,faith principles.
Yeah.
I know one of the things that wealways did with the kids was
like Christmas or birthdays andthat kind of thing, when they
got gifts and stuff, said, yeah,you can play with it today.
But tomorrow you have to writethank you notes.
(38:14):
Yeah.
And you could not play with ituntil, you know, that happened.
You know, another value, Ithink, sort of part, and I guess
it goes with sort of the faithas well.
Like for my grandkids, forexample, we don't like to give
them presents Christmas time.
We do experiences.
Oh, yeah.
We started something calledNight Before Christmas Eve
(38:36):
Christmas.
And we just take them, mydaughters and I, you know, take
them to a hotel and we just doactivities and, you know, spend
the night and they can, nextmorning can have breakfast in
bed or, you know, whatever, goice skating or whatever the case
may be.
Because gifts, presents, they'rethere, they fade, but
experiences, that is, you know,I think something that lasts.
(39:00):
You leave in a lot of storiesthroughout the book, stories
from other women and theirexperiences.
Because you really do capture alot of circumstances of other
women and how they overcame.
And the stories are socompassionate and compelling.
How were you able to kind ofpull all that together?
To me, it's pretty amazing.
(39:21):
Some women I knew.
Others were friends of people Iknew.
There was, I think, a couplethat I actually read about and I
contacted.
It depends on the story and thensort of, okay, where would you
fit into my seven pillars?
Yeah.
Kind of thing.
So the last pillar I wanted totouch on is the values.
(39:43):
And this is something that yourchild carries with him or her
into so many situations andcircumstances that they confront
in their lives.
It's like you as a parent, yourvalues that you instill in your
child.
And when you talk about values,you talk about kind of being a
safe space for your children totalk to you about their, I
guess, vulnerabilities.
(40:04):
Can you share your thoughts onkind of creating that safe space
and making that available toyour own children and parents?
probably them to their childrenas a way to kind of grow your
relationship and to grow thattrust that's really important,
that really carries that childfor the rest of their lives and
(40:25):
their relationship with you ortheir parent.
I guess each of my kids...
They haven't trusted me withthings that the other two don't
know.
And we'll never know.
I'm the secret keeper.
Yeah.
And once they trust that in you,then they're more apt to be
open.
One of the quotes that I reallylike is that values are
(40:47):
inheritance.
What makes us who we are as apeople.
Barack Obama said that.
And it is an inheritance to havethat trust is a value and it's
valued on both parts, both childand parent and spouse and friend
or, you know, whatever.
You know, if we don't have that,I think that you'll never be a
(41:08):
good parent.
You'll never be a good friend.
You'll never be a good spouse.
Yeah, that would definitely beone of my pillars.
Once trust is broken, it'sreally, really hard to get back.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Are there some parenting jewelsthat you want to share with us
that really sort of stick outwith you in your parenting
(41:30):
journey?
Yeah.
One, the power of girlfriends.
Oh, yes.
And I think I see it right here.
I don't know what you're talkingabout.
That is so, so important.
Yeah.
I wish men had the same kind ofrelationships.
(41:50):
you know, with other men thatwomen can have with their
friends.
It's so funny because I have agroup of girlfriends from
college.
Yeah.
Awesome.
And we get together every year,a couple of times a year and go
somewhere.
And they're always, alwaysthere.
We don't have to talk every day,but they're always there inside.
(42:11):
Right.
And so they're all aunties to mykids.
Pretty cool.
When Wes met Dawn, she has agroup of girlfriends just like
that.
Yeah.
And that's one of the thingsthat attracted him, him to her.
Yeah.
He saw that.
And I think it's important, youknow, women need that.
There's actually one quote I usein the book, Rebecca Wells says,
(42:35):
She said, some women pray fortheir daughters to marry good
husbands.
I pray that my daughters willfind girlfriends half as loyal
and true as the yaya.
You know, she's the one who did,you know, Journey of the Yayas.
Yeah.
It's so important.
Yeah.
Because that's your tribe.
I do remember reading that inthe book, what was said about
(42:55):
God and how that reminded him ofyour relationship with your
friends.
And that just, you know, it's sotrue, right?
I preach this to my daughter allthe time.
You are in a lovelyrelationship.
Jose is, everyone who's met himjust loves him.
I said, but don't forget aboutyour girlfriends ever.
(43:15):
Because you're going to needthose.
One day, you're just going to bein a bad mood and they're going
to be the ones that's going tohelp you come out of that mood.
That's right.
And it's not because you don'tlove your partner.
It's because they get you andthey've been your friends.
And you don't have to have awhole lot of them.
You just have to have some thatare true to you and that you're
(43:36):
true to them.
Right.
because that's where the valueis.
And she has two sets, the onesthat she played soccer with all
through high school and there,and they do a set of things.
And she has another set thatshe's met when she was in high
school.
And they go to raves and they goshopping at thrift stores.
You know, they talk about stuff.
(43:57):
And when one's not doing well,they try to help the other one
out.
And that is priceless.
Don't ever lose that.
Absolutely.
Don't ever lose that.
Yeah.
Don't let life, marriage,childhood, anything.
And I'm speaking fromexperience.
I said, just don't lose that.
It's too hard to get back onceyou lose it.
Absolutely.
Don't lose it.
I like that, Jewel.
And Pandy, you need that, Jewel.
(44:19):
I know, right.
You need that support.
You need that pride.
Yes, that's right.
You know, the one that says,okay, what you said was probably
not cool, but I understand whyyou said it.
Right.
But don't do it again.
UNKNOWN (44:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (44:36):
I have one request for you two.
We're all seasoned moms.
That's a nice way of putting it.
But there are moms out there nowthat I've had the pleasure of
working with or seeing who havelittle kids, who have
preschoolers or even the onesthat are in high school.
(44:56):
And I think those moms need toknow if you can only tell them
three things to help them, whatwould be those three things?
I think the first would be, Tohave faith, even if they are
bleak in the moment, to find theresilience, the courage, the
values, those things that youhold inside and know that that
(45:18):
faith, that another day, abetter day will come.
I think secondly is to know thatyou cannot do this alone.
Yeah, that's true.
That you need a friend, aneighbor, a teacher, someone who
has your back.
Who you can talk to, who you cancry with, who can help you along
(45:39):
the way.
Because no one can do thisalone.
Yeah.
I used to think I could, but youcan't.
You can't.
Yeah.
Even with like, you know, yourpartner can't be all things to
you.
Exactly.
I think third would be alwaysput the need to be present with
your kids first.
(46:00):
Let them know that they are themost important thing in your
life and that will reap benefitsbeyond words.
Yeah.
Because they need to know thatthey're loved and they need to
know that they're the mostimportant things to you and that
you'll do anything for them.
Amen.
How would you say yourrelationship changes over time?
(46:21):
You've done what you need to doearly on and then you sort of
like let go as time goes on.
Well, now we can be friends.
You need to be a mother first.
Right.
That's right.
You know, if they do somethingthat's messed up, you got to let
them know.
Yeah.
You know, you have to putboundaries and you have to make
(46:42):
decisions that they won't like.
But at the end of the day, youcan be friends.
I tell my kids they can't be mykids anymore because they're all
too old.
But I could be their aunt.
They're like, gosh.
First one, when he served me,I'm like, dude, you're getting
(47:07):
old.
I don't know.
They're all going to come backto mama.
Someone asked me, do you have anempty nest?
I'm like, nah, this is more likea boomerang house.
They come, they go, they dropoff their crap.
They come, they go.
But I wouldn't have it any otherway.
That's right.
That's right.
They are my joy.
Yeah.
I call them my gifts.
(47:28):
They are.
Right?
They really are.
They're my gifts.
This introverted person became avery extroverted person when she
had kids.
People were like, there's no wayyou were introverted.
I feel like I'm introverted forsure.
But then I'm more extrovertedwhen I get to know someone.
They were like, there's no way.
(47:49):
I'm like, yep.
I was at INTJ for a long time.
Then you had kids and peoplemessing with your kids all the
time.
The mama bear comes out, right?
The lioness comes out.
The lioness is like, wait aminute.
So, Julie, how can people getyour book?
It is on Amazon.
(48:10):
Mm-hmm.
And I just found out the otherday that they're printing more
copies.
Oh, really?
Congratulations.
Also on Audible, because I waslistening to it yesterday.
And that was all of us.
That was the kids?
Yep.
And, yeah.
That was really nice, too.
That was fun.
That was a lot of fun, too.
(48:31):
Oh, I'm going to have to listento Audible.
It was interesting, because Iwasn't expecting to hear all
three of them.
Wow.
Yeah, no, it's really good.
Oh, my God.
Because I just have my...
my ripped up tagged copy.
I'm probably up for a new one.
I was reading a book.
I need one to read and then onefor my bookcase.
A nice one for my bookcase.
(48:52):
I was outside, you know, and Iwas like, no, I really want to
read this.
I want to listen to it.
And I'm like, oh, I wonder ifit's on Audible.
Because I read and then I wantedto go outside and play in the
dirt.
And then I'm like, okay, but Ihaven't read it.
And it's on Audible.
It was really nice.
I totally was surprised to hearAudible.
Oh, wow.
No, it's very nice.
It was a fun activity.
We did it both in L.A.
(49:13):
because my youngest, Shani, wasin L.A.
at the time.
So we did a taping out there andthen in New York.
Well, you heard it here, folks.
A proud mommy moment.
Look at that smile on her face.
Yeah, it was a lot of fun.
That's great.
Thank you so much, Joy.
Oh, I've loved it.
You are a joy.
(49:33):
And it's been a joy having youhere on Two Black Moms and a
Mic.
Thank you so much.
My honor.
I totally enjoyed ourconversation.
Thank you so much.
And I learned a lot from youboth.
Thank you.
Thank you.
You're very generous to saythat.
Yeah, that was very nice of you.
I was kind of hoping like thatone part where it talks about
(49:56):
the importance of a mentor.
I'm like, yeah, where was shewhen I was raising these kids?
It's probably right there inBaltimore.
I don't even know.
Well, thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
Be sure to check us out at ourwebsite,
www.toblackmomsinamic.com, wherewe hope you will subscribe.
(50:19):
You can also hear this and ourother podcasts on Spotify,
iHeartRadio, Amazon Audible, andPodchaser.
If you like what you hear, wehope that you'll give us a great
review.
Hey, thanks for joining ustoday.
This is Glenda.
And this is Lisa.
Two black moms and a mic, andwe're signing off.
Hi, I'm Glenda.
And I'm Lisa.
And we are Two Black Moms and aMic.
Between us, we have six kids,four boys and two girls.
And we're here to talk to youabout everything from diapers to
degrees.
Welcome to our podcast.
We're so happy to have as ourguest today Ms.
(00:21):
Joy Moore.
Joy is a distinguished writer,producer, and media
professional.
She's president and CEO of JWSMedia Consulting, and prior to
founding her own media company,she managed the media impact
portfolio for the Annie E.
Casey Foundation, a privatephilanthropy dedicated to
(00:43):
helping build better futures fordisadvantaged children and
families in the United States.
Prior to that, she was a writerand a field producer for
television in New York City,where she worked for Essence.
And in Washington, D.C., for herwork, she earned a Peabody Award
for her documentary work inradio.
(01:03):
She also served as an adjunctprofessor at Howard University.
She earned her bachelor's andmaster's degree from American
University.
And that's her professionallife.
But her most important role isthat of mom, grandma, and
mother-in-love to a beautifulfamily.
She has three children.
That includes our own MarylandGovernor, Wes Moore, and she has
(01:26):
grandchildren.
So she has a very, very fulllife.
And she's here today to shareinsights from her wonderful book
called The Power of Presence.
Be a voice in your child's ear,even when you're not with them.
So thank you so much, Joy.
We're so happy to have youtoday.
Oh, I am so excited to join youboth today.
Thank you so much.
(01:48):
So this is a really powerfultitle with a powerful underlying
theme.
Can you tell us about your book?
Well, originally it was designedto be a love letter.
basically to single moms.
It was during a time wheneveryone was sort of bad
mouthing, you know, single momsand this and that, your kids are
(02:08):
going to be this, they're goingto grow up to be that and
whatever.
And I knew from experience thatthat was wrong.
And I knew from all the many,many thousands of women that I
knew that that was wrong.
So I wanted to show the worldwith this book that single moms
have a power that transcends allof the negativity that was
(02:29):
surrounding them.
I like that.
I don't know.
I think that people always lookfor a scapegoat, you know, a
reason for this.
And so single moms are becauseit is tough.
It is hard.
Yeah.
When you're by yourself,especially if you don't have
sort of the community aroundyou.
Yeah.
It can be difficult.
We probably are stronger.
I think Wes did the forward andhe said single moms are the
(02:53):
backbone of our families.
And so we have to really givethem the respect that they're
due.
I guess single moms is lionessesthroughout, which is just so
pertinent and relevant.
It's weird and true.
Well, it's so funny.
It took maybe six years ofresearching, you know, finding
(03:16):
the moms, finding the variousquotes that I put throughout the
book.
And I always wanted to findsomething that could convey what
a single mom is.
And I finally came up with thelioness.
Yeah.
Because they support each other.
The lion sort of sits around,does whatever he does.
No offense, lion.
(03:39):
But these women who go out,they're the hunters.
And they will leave like onelioness there to watch the kids,
the cubs.
And the rest of them will go outand hunt.
bring the food back to the prideand they eat.
So I said, okay, that's whatsingle moms do.
They support each other.
And so that's why I chose thelioness.
(04:00):
Oh, I didn't even know thatabout the lioness.
She's going out to get the food.
Oh, they're fierce.
I was probably at the grocerystore.
Yeah, no, lions are very fierceand protective.
Yeah, they're cubs of eachother.
(04:23):
That's a wonderful analogy.
I like that a lot.
And I know a lot of single moms,and I take my hat off to them,
and I take my hat off to theendurance that they go through
throughout life without gettingappreciated for it, mostly being
criticized for it.
But you know what's kind ofinteresting?
Black moms who are single getmore criticism than any other
(04:48):
single mom.
Absolutely.
It's interesting.
At my age, I'm looking and I'mthinking, well, wait a minute.
She's got a couple of kids bydifferent daddies.
How come no one's makingcomments about that?
Well, you know, a lot of itstarted sort of, you know, back
when was it Reagan with thewelfare queens.
(05:08):
Yeah.
So, you know, it's sort ofingrained in the culture that
somehow Black women are the oneswho are getting over as opposed
to the fact that other culturesget more welfare and other
things proportionately.
More than we do.
Yes.
Yeah.
That's not the narrative.
No, it's not the narrative.
(05:29):
Yeah.
So again, I thank you forwriting this love letter to
single moms.
Thank you.
I would have known about itmany, many years ago before our
kids wrote it.
So what does it mean to be thevoice in your child's ear?
You know, all the things that wehear, like I quote my mom all
the time.
(05:49):
She passed a few years ago.
She was 95.
I will hear like one thing sheloved saying was, good, better,
best.
Never let it rest until yourgood gets better and your better
gets best.
She was West Indian, right?
So she always had these things.
And so I think that's the kindof thing where you, what can you
(06:09):
leave to your kids that willhelp them be stronger, you know,
be more resilient.
When you're not with them, beingpresent is physically, but also
emotionally and mentally.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah, it's interesting becausemy mom's 88.
And I talk to her like everyday.
And then she used to talk to hermother every day.
(06:31):
And I've got a lot of women inmy side of the family.
And what I find is that evennow...
I'm asking myself, okay, I'm inthis situation.
Like, what would my mom tell, Imean, and I talked to her, but
you know, like, what would shesay?
Or what would, or what wouldHelen, who's my grandmother,
like, what would she think?
So it's the same kind of thing.
(06:52):
Like, you know, I'm thinkingabout what would they think or
what would they tell me?
Or maybe it's, I don't want totell them whatever it is
decision I have to take, butlike, what would they suggest or
what would they tell me to do?
So it carries over forever.
Absolutely.
The values, you know.
Yeah.
Will carry over.
That's why it's so important, Ithink, because they're such
(07:14):
sponges, kids.
Yeah.
Well, I only have the twograndkids, you know, from Wes
and Dawn.
And I watch them and I seethings that they do that I know
that, well, Wes in particularwould have picked up.
Yeah.
You know, along the way.
Yeah.
And it's interesting.
It makes me think about mygrandmother because before cell
(07:34):
phones, I'd call my grandmotheronce a week.
you know, on Sundays, whetherfrom college or from home or
whatever.
But if I missed a week, shewould say to me, oh, I thought
you forgot about me.
And I was like, wait, I'm sorry.
So she insisted on that regularcommunication from me, but she
wasn't going to call me.
It was like, I must call herevery Sunday or else she's going
(07:57):
to throw the guilt thing on me.
I know they were good at doingthat.
UNKNOWN (08:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:04):
They're good at doing that.
I think it's great when you hearyour own kids talk My kids range
from 26 to 34 now.
But it's good when theyacknowledge something that you
instilled in them or you noticethat they're doing something
that you know they got from you.
Right.
Yeah.
And you don't have to sayanything.
(08:26):
You just smile.
Just smile.
Because then you're like, okay,they were listening.
They did understand.
Yeah.
They may have been rebelling atthe time.
They were in middle school.
I won't call out any particularone, but it is wonderful.
You're right.
It's wonderful to be with themphysically, mentally, and
(08:47):
emotionally.
Well, you know, every time,especially with young families,
you know, let's say, whenthey're at that wits end, you
know, with stuff, with, youknow, their teenagers or
whatever.
So just wait it out.
I know it's frustrating.
But, you know, when they get tobe 20, 25, they'll that you
aren't so dumb after all.
(09:07):
Right, exactly.
But during that process, whenthey're in those younger years.
Oh my God, it was a totalnightmare.
I know.
And the fight with social media,that was my worst situation.
And the pressure to want to goout and hang out and be with
friends.
And I'm like, I just lost mymind during those years.
I know, but you know what?
We talk about that, but justspending time recently with kids
(09:31):
from pre-K to 12th grade, Intoday's world, these kids are
attached to those phones unlikeI've ever noticed before.
And see, that's what makes itharder to be a presence to them,
especially at that age, whenthat's more important to them,
you know, what they're hearingon social media than it might be
than anything that we might besaying.
(09:52):
But maybe they are hearing.
I mean, I'm not sure.
Well, you know, I think that alot of times, you know, it's
sort of the whole modelingthing.
I find myself doing thatsometimes, right?
I have the phone in my hand.
And we're supposed to be havingdinner or having conversation.
And so putting down the phone,especially like with girlfriends
or that kind of thing, puttingdown the phone sort of shows
(10:14):
that lesson that we don't haveto be attached to it.
Now it's tougher being a youngperson right now.
Yeah, I think so too.
Like before, if you didn't havea whole lot of money, people
weren't telling you, you know,24-7 that you're poor.
Yeah, that's for sure.
But now it's like you see it onTV, you know, this and that you
(10:34):
wanted and all of a sudden, wow,I'm really disadvantaged.
Now it's harder.
That's true.
And so the power of presence iseven more important, I think,
now for parents to read Yeah,yeah.
(11:13):
You've got to kind of changethat a little bit because I'm
worried about your attentionspan.
I'm worried about you notunderstanding the conversation
that's going on on the table.
Even if it's above your head,you're still going to pick up
something.
Or you not being, as a parent,being engaged with your child to
let them know that they'reimportant.
You're out to dinner, butthey're important.
(11:34):
They're important enough for youto sit there with and talk about
whatever they want to talkabout, right?
And even with adult kids,though, like...
we'd go out to dinner and Robwill be like, oh, I can't put
her phone away.
I'm like, oh my God.
But even I find myself, I'mlike, oh my God, no, I can't
just put it away.
(11:54):
But yeah, you have to make aconscious effort to engage.
You may have a hard time puttingthe phone down.
Glenda knows because not only doI have my phone, but I also keep
my stupid iPad with me in mypurse.
We're all getting used to thistechnology, even though it's
(12:15):
been around for a long time.
But again, when I see afour-year-old with a cell phone,
that bothers me a bit.
It's not my kids, not mygrandkid, but it bothers me.
Especially, I'm concernedbecause you can't recognize the
letters that we're trying toteach you in preschool.
But you know how to go on thephone and do just about
anything.
(12:35):
Well, it's sort of almost areplacement babysitter.
You don't want to engage with athing, with a machine,
especially with AI right now.
Yeah, AI is kind of scary.
It's becoming more and moreimportant to engage.
Yes.
To be present.
Yeah, the power of presence.
So that brings us to your sevenpillars, mind, heart, faith,
(12:56):
courage, resources,connectedness, and value.
So do you consider themparenting principles?
Well, for me, I mean, in thewhole sort of process of writing
the book, I had to just reallysit down.
What was it that helped me?
And these are the ones that sortof came to mind and that I could
sort of make a sense of and findfolks to come into those
(13:21):
categories.
They may be for other people,but for me, these were the
things that worked.
I wanted to actually start withcourage because there's so much
going on that families areexperiencing now.
And you quoted Maya Angelou thatcourage is the most important of
all the virtues because withoutcourage, you can't practice any
(13:42):
other virtue consistently.
What is courage to you and whyis that important as part of
parenting journey?
Well, I think particularly nowwith all the challenges and the
chaos that's going on in theworld, it's so easy to sort of
want to just put the covers overyour head and stay there.
But courage is being able tosay, okay, I have got to put one
(14:06):
foot in front of the other andkeep going and figure it out.
How am I going to make endsmeet?
How am I going to respond toperhaps a challenging child?
And that's courage.
It takes all the other things,all the other, the mind, the
heart, resources, connectedness,values.
It sort of envelops all of thosethings.
(14:28):
Yeah.
Because you can't do those otherthings if you're not courageous
enough to try.
When my husband passed, it wasthe kids made me have to put one
foot in front of the other andnot decide that, you know, I was
going to lose myself in mygrief.
Yeah.
You're a lioness protecting yourcubs.
(14:49):
That's right.
Because we will do anything forour cubs.
And to have the courage, though,just to move forward.
you know, to sort of startafresh or start anew.
I mean, it does take a lot ofcourage.
Yeah.
Well, you know, one of the momsthat I interviewed, Una, her
husband was a fireman and hedied on 9-11.
Yeah, I remember reading that.
(15:10):
Well, this is sort of why all ofthese seven pillars, you know,
intersect, because it was herfaith that finally gave her the
courage to move forward.
But also it was the communityaround her because for a while
she sort of lost her faith.
Because she wasn't, you know,how in the world could this
happen?
She had twins and, you know,newborns and another daughter.
(15:33):
So it's the kids, having thecommunity, having that support.
Because parenting is, you cannotdo it alone.
You need somebody.
You need something.
And the courage piece is key inparenting.
And resilience.
You have to have it.
It's a lot to take on.
It's a lot to be responsiblefor.
And nobody gives you a class onparenting.
(15:56):
The hardest job in the world.
There is no class.
There's no class.
No.
It's a lot of trial by error.
We made the decision to let ourdaughter go to boarding school.
And for me, in the face of, Idon't want to say lack of
support, but skepticism, youknow, by members of my family.
(16:17):
But I knew that that was bestfor her.
But I was scared to death, youknow, dropping my kid off,
hoping that everything would beokay.
I mean, I put her in a greatsituation, but you never know
because I'm used to like, she'supstairs, I'm in the kitchen,
you know, like, you know whereall of your parts are, right?
And so even though I knew, youknow, where my part was supposed
(16:39):
to be, I could only pray thatshe's actually there.
Glenda remembers.
I mean, that was very, very hardfor me.
And even another friend of mine,she goes, why are you doing
that?
Black people don't do that.
There's a lot of judgment.
And I was like, you're right.
Black people don't do that.
What am I doing?
But in the end, she's better forit.
I don't know if I'm necessarilybetter for it because I was very
(16:59):
stressed out.
But once you saw her thriving.
Yeah.
After we got past a couple, youknow, one or two hurdles.
I mean, in the end, it was thebest thing that we could have
done for her.
Well, that's what we did withWes.
Wes was in boarding school.
Military school.
And he probably hated me for awhile.
But it was the best thing forhim.
(17:20):
And like you.
It was, well, how could I dothis?
I mean, we didn't allow guns inthe house.
You know, my husband, my latehusband and I, we just didn't
give him that stuff.
And the thought of militaryschool was so frightening.
You know, what is he going tocome out as?
So what it did was it reallyhoned his leadership.
And so it was the best thing forhim then.
(17:42):
But you're right.
It takes courage.
It takes courage.
And it takes to have someone inyour corner who understands why
you're doing this to protectyour child.
Yeah.
And is the best thing for yourchild.
You live with your child.
You know your child.
Yeah.
Unlike anyone else.
And yeah, Black people don'tnormally send their kids to
boarding school.
UNKNOWN (18:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:03):
But you know what?
A lot of it is we didn't knowabout.
(18:33):
Right.
So she grew a lot from it.
And you can be just as present,even if in boardings.
I was up at Valley Forge justabout every week.
So was Lisa.
I knew she was going to saythat.
She was there a lot.
Really?
See, I mean, you know, peopleknew my name already.
She'd be calling me from the caron my way.
(18:56):
I'm like, oh, my God.
See, you can always be present.
I'm going up there right now.
I'm like, just let me know whenyou arrive so I know you're
(19:19):
safe.
Your values and your courage toprotect your child.
That's right.
Well, let's look at anothermother, Susan Taylor, that I
(19:41):
interviewed.
She's part of this multi, youknow, million dollar enterprise
and she's editor in chief anddoing all these things.
And she finally realized thatwhen she came home, she was not
leaving the office.
And she said once she startedrealizing that and coming home
and asking her daughter, well,how was your day?
(20:02):
And just spending time.
And, you know, until she went tobed, her academics changed.
She became valedictorian.
And she was having problemsbefore.
That child knowing that theyhave your full attention in that
moment.
We're adults.
We have to figure it out.
You know, if you have a messyboss or situation at work or
(20:23):
whatever.
That's not the kid's problem.
Yeah.
So we shouldn't bring that homein that sense.
Yeah.
I think I struggled with thatbecause I felt underappreciated
at work.
And then you walk in the doorand you're like, I don't
appreciate it.
I'm like, wait, does anybodylike it?
Let me call Glenda.
She'll make me feel better aboutmyself.
(20:46):
No, that is so right.
Yeah.
I know.
I was dying for somebody to giveme an award of some kind from
somebody.
I know, right?
I remember reading this book,The Price of Motherhood, and I'm
like, okay, I don't like it.
But it is what it is.
And you brought them into thisworld.
Yeah.
(21:06):
As my kids remind me every nowand then.
Yeah.
Well, my fault.
Well, one thing I'd like to...
Technically.
I just sort of feel repaid.
I shouldn't say repaid.
That's not the right way to sayit.
But when I broke my ankle about,what, three years ago?
Oh, yeah.
It only came.
Yes.
And my daughter came and tookcare of me.
Rob was here.
But, you know, she came and tookcare of me for like four days.
(21:30):
And then she left.
UNKNOWN (21:32):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (21:32):
She left on like a Friday.
And then Saturday morning, thedoorbell is ringing.
And I'm like, Rob, go get thedoor.
I don't know who it is.
She came back.
The next day, she's living inNew York, came back the next
day, flew back because she wasconcerned that her not being
there, I wouldn't havesufficient care.
In other words, she was nervousthat Rob wasn't going to be
(21:54):
there.
That's my everything.
And so I was like, you knowwhat?
This is why, I shouldn't saythis is why you have kids, but
that made me feel really good.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
That's because of the care yougave her.
That's sweet.
I thought you were driving hercrazy, but she also knew who was
(22:14):
in her corner.
When you needed someone in hercorner, you were always there in
her corner, and she knew that.
I was not surprised that shecame and hung out with you.
I know.
I called Glenn.
I was like, God, guess what?
I can't believe Emma came back.
And I guess, you know, as you'regoing through the process of
parenting, you don't expect thekids to do that, and you can't
(22:37):
expect it.
But it sure is nice when itcomes.
It is nice when it comes.
They're bossing you around.
I got COVID.
I was losing my mind.
I'm like, how did I get this?
I didn't want this.
What happened?
I stayed five years withoutthis.
But my daughter was there takingcare of me.
She was.
And ordering me around andtelling me to sleep.
(22:57):
I'm like, she says soundsfamiliar, doesn't it?
No comment.
Power of presence.
Right.
Well, that brings us actually tothe mind pillar.
And the principle there seems tobe, don't be afraid to share
your children and to promotethem having mentors in their
(23:17):
lives.
And why is that important?
Well, we can't be everything toour kids.
As much as I try, I could neverbe a father to my son or to my
daughters.
My brother, for example, myyounger brother, I know that the
relationship that he had withWes, for example, was one that I
(23:38):
could trust and he would tellhim anything.
In fact, he was his best manwhen he got married, but he
would always come and tell me.
So I knew what was still goingon.
But, you know, having mentorslike in his case, again, Mayor
Schmoke, he's the one who Gatessaid took him when he interned
with him one summer and he said,look at this picture, you know,
(23:59):
and he showed him his, thepicture of him in his Rhodes
class.
And he said, have you everthought about the Rhodes
scholarship?
Yeah.
That was the scene.
My daughter, she majored insociology.
She interned and she realizedshe got too emotionally involved
to be in that, but she loved toshop and she could be, she's got
(24:20):
her own business now.
She's a personal shopper andevent planner.
It's having, you know, thosepeople who you trust to be
around your kids and thosepeople whose traits you don't
want in your child.
I've done that.
I've kept people away.
Yeah.
No comments.
(24:40):
You want your child to reflectthe values that you have.
And so you have to bring peoplein with those values.
Yeah.
Yeah, because it's important forpeople to see the goodness or
the greatness in your childother than you.
And to bring that out and toexpose them to what could be.
Because I think we can't be allthings, I guess, to our
(25:01):
children.
Right.
Even though we try.
It's exhausting.
Yeah.
And it's not good self-care forus either, although sometimes we
forget about our own self-care.
Well, I got my nails doneyesterday.
I'm getting back to it.
I used to do what I used to callthe triangle day.
(25:22):
I don't know if you saw it inthe book, but when things are
really, you know, hairy andstuff, I would say, okay, I shut
down and I would take a day.
And I know all moms can't dothis, but you can do variations
of the theme.
I would go home.
I would go from my bed to thebathroom to the kitchen all day
long.
That's all I would do.
I would, if I wanted to read, ifI wanted to do whatever, I would
(25:44):
watch TV, whatever I wanted todo.
And the kids knew that if theyneeded me, they would call
twice.
I knew it was them.
Yeah.
Okay.
And this is before, you know,before cell phones and, you
know, caller IDs and all thatkind of stuff.
So yeah, you have to take careof yourself.
And if it means going to getyour nails done, get your nails
(26:07):
done.
That's true.
I remember putting myself intime out when my kids were, they
weren't too little, but maybethey were in law school or
preschool or whatever.
And it was summer and they werehome and it was just a lot going
on.
And then I looked and I said,Mommy's going in a timeout.
Yes.
What did you do?
I didn't do anything.
(26:32):
But before I do do something,I'm going to go in timeout.
That's right.
That is cute.
I'm going to go dig in some dirtor something.
So you'll know, you'll see me.
But I'm in timeout for like 30minutes.
And unless it's an emergency,you can't bother me.
(26:53):
They're like, okay.
That's a good one.
Yeah, I literally would putmyself in time out.
Because it was something theycould understand.
Right, right.
You know?
I liked it trying all day, too.
Right.
The kids are like, oh, poor mom.
She's in time out.
Yeah.
But it makes it into, oh.
(27:15):
I should take up that towel.
I mean, what?
I'm going to be in time out fora little bit.
I mean, because there were fourof them.
Yeah.
Four total differentpersonalities.
Yeah.
Sometimes I needed to be intime.
That's right.
It's either that or putting themout.
And again, I brought them intothe world, as my children tell
(27:39):
me every now and then.
So another pillar is the heart,having heart.
And I think you wrote, havingheart is to showcase compassion,
empathy, humility, forgiveness,putting all that is human in
someone or something.
I guess that's putting yourheart into someone else.
(27:59):
What meaning does that carry foryou?
Well, I think once you put yourheart into your kids, they then
learn how to put their heartinto other people.
Empathy, I think, is one of themost important things.
that anyone can have, not just,you know, your children, but in
terms of, you know, a spouse ora coworker.
(28:22):
If people can't see themselvesin what you're going through, we
could have all kinds of chaos.
Things will be done thatcompletely are devoid of
compassion because there is noempathy about what other people
are going through.
That is so true.
It's one of the things that theystress in the School of Social
(28:43):
Work.
is to understand when you'rewith a client, whether that
client is an adult or a child,to be empathetic to what their
situation is, what's going onwith them.
And I think this world rightnow, well, this country is
really missing that value.
There's a lot of empathymissing.
Not to be confused withsympathy, okay?
(29:03):
Right.
Not to be confused.
There's two very, very differentthings.
Very, very different things.
And there was a part in yourbook, too, where I think You had
a lot of, you were working atEssence and you were doing other
extra work and you were justlike working constantly, which I
totally relate to, doing a lot.
Things are chaotic at home.
(29:25):
I remember Robbie, he would, youknow, I'd be working late at,
Robbie calling up, you need toget home.
You got to help these kids.
Got to do homework.
So then I would get home.
I'd be like, Robbie, I know youstarted your homework, right?
It's like 730.
He goes, no, no, no.
I was waiting for you to gethome before I started.
That was like his theme all thetime.
Oh no, I was waiting for you toget home and then we can start.
(29:47):
And I guess you experienced thesame thing where you cutbacks.
Yeah, I had to.
Create your boundaries.
Now you were doing a lot there.
But understandably, because yourworld had changed and you had a
mission that you were on to makesure that Nikki and you were
going to be okay.
And that takes money.
And at that point, I had threekids in some kind of private
(30:10):
school.
And had it not been for myparents, when it came for Weston
and Valley Forge, they took asecond mortgage to help me that
first year, you know, until Icould sort of figure it all out.
Finished paying what I was owedfor his current school.
But the investment paid off.
I know we cry all the time aboutall the money we spent from
(30:34):
private school tuition.
Yeah.
I have no regrets in terms ofthat.
I just wish all kids could havethe kind of education that
private schools have.
Amen to that.
If the other Wes had had halfthe opportunities that my Wes
had, he's a smart guy.
Yeah, he was very bright.
(30:54):
Yeah.
Yeah, he was a very bright guy.
I mean, as opposed to nowspending the rest of his life in
prison and being cared for andnot contributing, that's what
equity is all about.
Bringing opportunities foreveryone so that someone down,
you know, in the middle ofBaltimore is going to cure
cancer.
(31:14):
But we won't know that becausehe's never had the opportunity
to do it.
Well, even the other Westmore'smom.
Remember, he was in college.
If I remember right, she lostthe money.
Well, she was the first in herfamily to graduate from high
school.
Right.
Then she went to junior collegeor community college.
She was so smart.
(31:34):
She got into Johns Hopkins.
Yes, right.
She was at Hopkins.
But again, this is where publicpolicy comes in and which is
what's happening, you know,could happen if the Pell Grants
were cut.
So she couldn't afford to go toHopkins.
So she had to have a job thattook her out of the house and
her boys were trying to helpsupplement and they supplemented
(31:56):
in the wrong way.
And they that's what happened.
He was a really bright kid.
Really?
And his mom was trying to do theright thing.
She was trying to up her game.
And then money or lack ofresources kind of stopped it.
Not having other resources tohelp her figure out how to get
(32:16):
it a different way.
Because there's no one theredoing educational consulting for
people in the inner city.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Because I've heard of, you know,from other counselors, we could
have figured out a way.
But she didn't have thewherewithal, the opportunity
herself to find another way.
To find another way.
So, yeah, mind, heart, faith.
(32:37):
She loved her boys.
That's right.
She was really trying to makethem do the right thing.
But making money the fast way,just sometimes.
I mean, I had a nephew tell methat one.
Very smart, very smart.
And I said, well, why don't youjust focus on school and not be
involved in whatever you'reinvolved in, in Wisconsin?
(32:57):
And he said, Aunt Glenda, I seethat, you know, you came from
the inner city, you went toschool, you're moving ahead
here.
He said, but you know, it's afaster way to get that kind of
money.
You get 11 years in jail.
So environment and behaviormatters.
And that's actually one thingtoo, in terms of parenting, it's
(33:18):
good to have your child as sortof a partner in the discussions.
You know, we have to do thisbecause, you know, we need to do
this or the money or whatever,but never putting the
responsibility on them to do it.
And I think that happens a lot.
If they can, you know, learn howto be a proper partner in that
(33:41):
whole situation.
I think we would have fewincidents of kids going, being
the lone ranger and I'm going tosupport the family and that kind
of thing.
That's sad.
I know, you're like a teenager.
I'm going to be the man of thehouse.
Exactly.
But you went behind the ears.
Your frontal lobe hasn't evendeveloped.
(34:03):
I know, that's sad.
You make some 12, 13-year-old.
Call me when you're 26, whenit's not developed.
Well, that's again what, youknow, some people will say that.
You know, to the kid, you got tobe the man of the house now.
No, no, no, no.
That person does not need to bein your ear.
Right.
That's one of those people youdon't need to have around.
That's right.
(34:23):
But culturally, that's somethingthat kids hear all the time.
That's right.
And then they take a path thatthey've seen other people take,
but they don't pay attention towhat happens on the other end of
that path.
Right.
Because they're in the moment.
So the next pillar that we wantto touch on is the faith pillar.
And you said that the presenceof faith is your go-to more than
(34:43):
any other pillar.
So what is the faith pillar andwhy is that health special
support for you?
Well, I think if we don't havefaith that there's a better
tomorrow, there won't be abetter tomorrow.
Well, again, I'll take mysituation.
When my husband passed, it was,I never expected it.
(35:03):
I mean, you know, at 32, Ialways thought we would be
walking down the street holdinghands when we were 75 years old.
And in that case, I think it'smore spirituality, but you know,
whatever your belief system is.
That somehow, if you just do theright things, if you incorporate
these other values, if you'represent with your kid, you give
(35:24):
them as many opportunities asyou can, things will work out.
And that's faith.
Because you also talk aboutfaith and not necessarily as a
specific religious principle.
Like you talk about ways toinstill faith in your children
that are not necessarily likebiblical.
Like you teach your children tobe grateful for what they have.
(35:45):
teach your children there's aspiritual being that's bigger
than themselves and help yourchildren keep their eye on the
future and be your brother andsister's keeper.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And that piece about somethingbigger than yourself.
Yeah.
And that's when you, you know,the whole notion of being a
steward of the values.
(36:05):
You're going to be the one whois going to help people on
Thanksgiving.
Yeah.
Or you are going to help thatchild read as a tutor.
So being in that public serviceis so important because once
kids get so focused on, I'mgoing to be the best this, I'm
going to be best that, without,devoid of that spirituality,
(36:27):
then they grow up sort ofredless.
Do you think it's hard toinstill some element of
spirituality in children whenthey're before high school?
I guess, I mean, I guess youjust keep talking to them.
It's the way you treat people.
Okay.
The way, the empathy.
Even little kids, they havethese experiments where you have
(36:48):
two little kids.
One, you give maybe four or fivepieces of candy or something.
And the other one, you givemaybe one or none.
And you see whether or not theone with the four or five is
going to share.
Sharing.
Sharing is empathy.
Yeah.
You have to start as early asyou can.
Right.
(37:08):
Because it kind of feeds intothis whole social emotional
learning that we're into rightnow.
Because to try to teach kidsthree, four and up to be able to
communicate.
And the way that theycommunicate, not hold a lecture,
but they communicate throughplay or they communicate through
sharing.
And the importance of that andthe importance of, like I held a
(37:30):
gratitude workshop with my highschool kids.
Like, what are you grateful for?
And it doesn't have to bebecause I got a new Xbox.
Something that we have to, Ithink we took maybe as a
granite.
For granted, when we weregrowing up, because it was kind
of in our system, our parentswere talking about it, and we
saw different things, whereright now I don't think that's
(37:53):
happening as much.
Yeah, I wonder if that's asimportant to parents anymore,
like the sort of faith pillar,faith principles.
Yeah.
I know one of the things that wealways did with the kids was
like Christmas or birthdays andthat kind of thing, when they
got gifts and stuff, said, yeah,you can play with it today.
But tomorrow you have to writethank you notes.
(38:14):
Yeah.
And you could not play with ituntil, you know, that happened.
You know, another value, Ithink, sort of part, and I guess
it goes with sort of the faithas well.
Like for my grandkids, forexample, we don't like to give
them presents Christmas time.
We do experiences.
Oh, yeah.
We started something calledNight Before Christmas Eve
(38:36):
Christmas.
And we just take them, mydaughters and I, you know, take
them to a hotel and we just doactivities and, you know, spend
the night and they can, nextmorning can have breakfast in
bed or, you know, whatever, goice skating or whatever the case
may be.
Because gifts, presents, they'rethere, they fade, but
experiences, that is, you know,I think something that lasts.
(39:00):
You leave in a lot of storiesthroughout the book, stories
from other women and theirexperiences.
Because you really do capture alot of circumstances of other
women and how they overcame.
And the stories are socompassionate and compelling.
How were you able to kind ofpull all that together?
To me, it's pretty amazing.
(39:21):
Some women I knew.
Others were friends of people Iknew.
There was, I think, a couplethat I actually read about and I
contacted.
It depends on the story and thensort of, okay, where would you
fit into my seven pillars?
Yeah.
Kind of thing.
So the last pillar I wanted totouch on is the values.
(39:43):
And this is something that yourchild carries with him or her
into so many situations andcircumstances that they confront
in their lives.
It's like you as a parent, yourvalues that you instill in your
child.
And when you talk about values,you talk about kind of being a
safe space for your children totalk to you about their, I
guess, vulnerabilities.
(40:04):
Can you share your thoughts onkind of creating that safe space
and making that available toyour own children and parents?
probably them to their childrenas a way to kind of grow your
relationship and to grow thattrust that's really important,
that really carries that childfor the rest of their lives and
(40:25):
their relationship with you ortheir parent.
I guess each of my kids...
They haven't trusted me withthings that the other two don't
know.
And we'll never know.
I'm the secret keeper.
Yeah.
And once they trust that in you,then they're more apt to be
open.
One of the quotes that I reallylike is that values are
(40:47):
inheritance.
What makes us who we are as apeople.
Barack Obama said that.
And it is an inheritance to havethat trust is a value and it's
valued on both parts, both childand parent and spouse and friend
or, you know, whatever.
You know, if we don't have that,I think that you'll never be a
(41:08):
good parent.
You'll never be a good friend.
You'll never be a good spouse.
Yeah, that would definitely beone of my pillars.
Once trust is broken, it'sreally, really hard to get back.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Are there some parenting jewelsthat you want to share with us
that really sort of stick outwith you in your parenting
(41:30):
journey?
Yeah.
One, the power of girlfriends.
Oh, yes.
And I think I see it right here.
I don't know what you're talkingabout.
That is so, so important.
Yeah.
I wish men had the same kind ofrelationships.
(41:50):
you know, with other men thatwomen can have with their
friends.
It's so funny because I have agroup of girlfriends from
college.
Yeah.
Awesome.
And we get together every year,a couple of times a year and go
somewhere.
And they're always, alwaysthere.
We don't have to talk every day,but they're always there inside.
(42:11):
Right.
And so they're all aunties to mykids.
Pretty cool.
When Wes met Dawn, she has agroup of girlfriends just like
that.
Yeah.
And that's one of the thingsthat attracted him, him to her.
Yeah.
He saw that.
And I think it's important, youknow, women need that.
There's actually one quote I usein the book, Rebecca Wells says,
(42:35):
She said, some women pray fortheir daughters to marry good
husbands.
I pray that my daughters willfind girlfriends half as loyal
and true as the yaya.
You know, she's the one who did,you know, Journey of the Yayas.
Yeah.
It's so important.
Yeah.
Because that's your tribe.
I do remember reading that inthe book, what was said about
(42:55):
God and how that reminded him ofyour relationship with your
friends.
And that just, you know, it's sotrue, right?
I preach this to my daughter allthe time.
You are in a lovelyrelationship.
Jose is, everyone who's met himjust loves him.
I said, but don't forget aboutyour girlfriends ever.
(43:15):
Because you're going to needthose.
One day, you're just going to bein a bad mood and they're going
to be the ones that's going tohelp you come out of that mood.
That's right.
And it's not because you don'tlove your partner.
It's because they get you andthey've been your friends.
And you don't have to have awhole lot of them.
You just have to have some thatare true to you and that you're
(43:36):
true to them.
Right.
because that's where the valueis.
And she has two sets, the onesthat she played soccer with all
through high school and there,and they do a set of things.
And she has another set thatshe's met when she was in high
school.
And they go to raves and they goshopping at thrift stores.
You know, they talk about stuff.
(43:57):
And when one's not doing well,they try to help the other one
out.
And that is priceless.
Don't ever lose that.
Absolutely.
Don't ever lose that.
Yeah.
Don't let life, marriage,childhood, anything.
And I'm speaking fromexperience.
I said, just don't lose that.
It's too hard to get back onceyou lose it.
Absolutely.
Don't lose it.
I like that, Jewel.
And Pandy, you need that, Jewel.
(44:19):
I know, right.
You need that support.
You need that pride.
Yes, that's right.
You know, the one that says,okay, what you said was probably
not cool, but I understand whyyou said it.
Right.
But don't do it again.
UNKNOWN (44:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (44:36):
I have one request for you two.
We're all seasoned moms.
That's a nice way of putting it.
But there are moms out there nowthat I've had the pleasure of
working with or seeing who havelittle kids, who have
preschoolers or even the onesthat are in high school.
(44:56):
And I think those moms need toknow if you can only tell them
three things to help them, whatwould be those three things?
I think the first would be, Tohave faith, even if they are
bleak in the moment, to find theresilience, the courage, the
values, those things that youhold inside and know that that
(45:18):
faith, that another day, abetter day will come.
I think secondly is to know thatyou cannot do this alone.
Yeah, that's true.
That you need a friend, aneighbor, a teacher, someone who
has your back.
Who you can talk to, who you cancry with, who can help you along
(45:39):
the way.
Because no one can do thisalone.
Yeah.
I used to think I could, but youcan't.
You can't.
Yeah.
Even with like, you know, yourpartner can't be all things to
you.
Exactly.
I think third would be alwaysput the need to be present with
your kids first.
(46:00):
Let them know that they are themost important thing in your
life and that will reap benefitsbeyond words.
Yeah.
Because they need to know thatthey're loved and they need to
know that they're the mostimportant things to you and that
you'll do anything for them.
Amen.
How would you say yourrelationship changes over time?
(46:21):
You've done what you need to doearly on and then you sort of
like let go as time goes on.
Well, now we can be friends.
You need to be a mother first.
Right.
That's right.
You know, if they do somethingthat's messed up, you got to let
them know.
Yeah.
You know, you have to putboundaries and you have to make
(46:42):
decisions that they won't like.
But at the end of the day, youcan be friends.
I tell my kids they can't be mykids anymore because they're all
too old.
But I could be their aunt.
They're like, gosh.
First one, when he served me,I'm like, dude, you're getting
(47:07):
old.
I don't know.
They're all going to come backto mama.
Someone asked me, do you have anempty nest?
I'm like, nah, this is more likea boomerang house.
They come, they go, they dropoff their crap.
They come, they go.
But I wouldn't have it any otherway.
That's right.
That's right.
They are my joy.
Yeah.
I call them my gifts.
(47:28):
They are.
Right?
They really are.
They're my gifts.
This introverted person became avery extroverted person when she
had kids.
People were like, there's no wayyou were introverted.
I feel like I'm introverted forsure.
But then I'm more extrovertedwhen I get to know someone.
They were like, there's no way.
(47:49):
I'm like, yep.
I was at INTJ for a long time.
Then you had kids and peoplemessing with your kids all the
time.
The mama bear comes out, right?
The lioness comes out.
The lioness is like, wait aminute.
So, Julie, how can people getyour book?
It is on Amazon.
(48:10):
Mm-hmm.
And I just found out the otherday that they're printing more
copies.
Oh, really?
Congratulations.
Also on Audible, because I waslistening to it yesterday.
And that was all of us.
That was the kids?
Yep.
And, yeah.
That was really nice, too.
That was fun.
That was a lot of fun, too.
(48:31):
Oh, I'm going to have to listento Audible.
It was interesting, because Iwasn't expecting to hear all
three of them.
Wow.
Yeah, no, it's really good.
Oh, my God.
Because I just have my...
my ripped up tagged copy.
I'm probably up for a new one.
I was reading a book.
I need one to read and then onefor my bookcase.
A nice one for my bookcase.
(48:52):
I was outside, you know, and Iwas like, no, I really want to
read this.
I want to listen to it.
And I'm like, oh, I wonder ifit's on Audible.
Because I read and then I wantedto go outside and play in the
dirt.
And then I'm like, okay, but Ihaven't read it.
And it's on Audible.
It was really nice.
I totally was surprised to hearAudible.
Oh, wow.
No, it's very nice.
It was a fun activity.
We did it both in L.A.
(49:13):
because my youngest, Shani, wasin L.A.
at the time.
So we did a taping out there andthen in New York.
Well, you heard it here, folks.
A proud mommy moment.
Look at that smile on her face.
Yeah, it was a lot of fun.
That's great.
Thank you so much, Joy.
Oh, I've loved it.
You are a joy.
(49:33):
And it's been a joy having youhere on Two Black Moms and a
Mic.
Thank you so much.
My honor.
I totally enjoyed ourconversation.
Thank you so much.
And I learned a lot from youboth.
Thank you.
Thank you.
You're very generous to saythat.
Yeah, that was very nice of you.
I was kind of hoping like thatone part where it talks about
(49:56):
the importance of a mentor.
I'm like, yeah, where was shewhen I was raising these kids?
It's probably right there inBaltimore.
I don't even know.
Well, thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
Be sure to check us out at ourwebsite,
www.toblackmomsinamic.com, wherewe hope you will subscribe.
(50:19):
You can also hear this and ourother podcasts on Spotify,
iHeartRadio, Amazon Audible, andPodchaser.
If you like what you hear, wehope that you'll give us a great
review.
Hey, thanks for joining ustoday.
This is Glenda.
And this is Lisa.
Two black moms and a mic, andwe're signing off.
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