Elevating Consciousness with Charley Johnson

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Tonight on 2 POGs Save the World, we sit down with Charley Johnson, a trailblazing voice in human potential and one of the world’s first Chief Consciousness Officers. From reimagining leadership to challenging the way we define success, Charley brings a bold, thoughtful lens to a world in chaos. We will explore how shifting individual awareness can transform systems, spark cultural change, and maybe even fix Congress if that is still possible. Join us live at 8:30 for a conversation that goes far deeper than headlines.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Chief mate, what do you want to do tonight?

Speaker 2 (00:06):
The same thing we do every night.
Pinky, Try to take over theworld.
All right, yo, let's get intoit.
Try to take over the world.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
You're preaching freedom.
Try to take over the world.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
And bring Chaplin in the world.
Try to take over the world andfor this chaplain in the world,
Mr Lance O'Neill Trying to takeover the world.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
Yo, yo yo.
What's up?
It is Sunday night at 830.
Do you know where your pogs are?
I don't know where my other pogis because my other pog is on
the road somewhere between, uh,the east coast of the west coast
and stuck in a hotel room.
So he's, like you, do theopening, but his sound is messed

(01:00):
up so I didn't hear him say it.
That's why there was thatlittle pause.
So we have a guest tonight and Iknow we're going to bring our
guest in Charlie Johnson is hisname, and we're going to have a
good discussion with him and ifyou hang around, we're going to
go about 45 minutes or so.
And if you want to hang aroundand find out why KJ has a smooth

(01:20):
face and his mom loves him moretoday because he looks more
like his dad You'll have to hangaround for later.
So there's the teaser on that.
So, kj, before you bringCharlie in, anything you want to
your week or anything you wantto bring up, I ain't laughing at
the intro, man.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yo, let's get it going, man.
All right, let's go All right,let's go All right.
We got Mr Charlie Johnson,chief conscious officer, over 20
years of business experience,on the show today.
I know my audio is a littlewarped, so I will be.
I'll be taking the tail, I'llbe pulling up the rear, and
Chappie's going to take the lead.
I do have a couple of questions, though, so just bear with me.

(02:01):
But, mr Johnson, go ahead andintroduce yourself to our
audience, man, and we'll get itrocking.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
Uh, born and raised in Utah, um wasn't Mormon.
Utah is a very religious state.
We weren't atheists, we weren'tMormon, we weren't Catholic, we
weren't Muslim, we weren'tBuddhist.
We we had nothing.
Uh, we were not religious, weweren't spiritual, kind of like
this white wall behind me.
We were just this blank slate,very unique.
Parents for that reason Didn'tdo well around kids.

(02:28):
My age Got into business veryearly on, when I was offered a
job at 16 or 17.
As soon as I got around adultsI started to thrive, really
enjoyed the business, lovedbeing around executives.
Loved being around the business.
Loved being like the dumbestperson in the room.
I loved asking questions,absorbing everything.
Like the dumbest person in theroom, I loved asking questions,
absorbing everything, did okaywith that business.
Flew 2 million miles during.

(02:49):
Actually, hold on a sec, howmuch do you want to know in this
?
Do we want to keep going withthe podcast?
You want me to dump the wholestuff at the front?
Sure, just keep going, we'llhave a question, all right.
So flew 2 million miles withthat business.
Grew that with a partner ofmine after the CEO had passed
away very unexpectedly.
After the 2 million miles flyingI developed a fear of flying

(03:11):
and it had nothing to do withthe plane.
The universe stepped in andsaid we need you out of this
business.
It was very comfortable.
There was a lot of money, therewas a lot 216 employees.
We only lost one employee.
She was pregnant.
She didn't need to come back towork because of her husband.
Great culture, great businessit was everything I'd ever
wanted as a kid and I had toleave.

(03:32):
It forced me to.
It got to the point where I wasthe face, the name, the sales,
the marketing.
So I was out front.
The fact that I couldn't get ona plane, it just got to the
point I was so miserable that Ileft the business.
A month later I was in Europe.
So it had nothing to do withthe fear of flying.
There was something, justsomething in the universe that
needed me to add to thatbusiness.
During that time, with thefor-profit industry, I thought

(03:55):
if I'm going to develop thisfear of flying and it's going to
push me out, then I need to gothe polar opposite and jump onto
the nonprofit.
So I took over the Pay itForward Foundation, the famous
one with the book and the movie,traveled the world again on a
lot of planes, 130 countries,tens of millions of people
involved.
That was fun.
That was my egoic way of tryingto save the world through
random acts of kindness.
During that time, though, thereason I told you about Utah and

(04:19):
having a very neutralbackground is for this reason.
During that time, with Pay itForward, I was doing what most
people do in their earlythirties self-development.
I was looking for coaches.
Every single one I'd crossedpaths with said they couldn't
help me.
So I was seeing all my friends,all these business associates
everyone was getting helped, andthese individuals were looking
at me saying I can't help you.
I have no clue how to answeryour questions.

(04:42):
Luckily, one of them was ego uh, egoic, had had less of an ego
and said I can't help you, but Ithink what you need is a
teacher.
So, in my mind, cause I had noreligious or spiritual
background, I I asked.
I said do you want me to goback to college?
What are you talking about?
A teacher?
She said a spiritual teacher.
I said okay, do you know one?
She said I have no clue.

(05:02):
Good luck, okay, great, perfect.
Again, the universe stepped in.
I was in the sauna at the localgym sitting down.
An 85-year-old man.
I had clothes on, as I do inthis podcast.
He was ass naked, as85-year-old men do.
I was sitting, he was standing,so just take a guess where my

(05:24):
eye level was at.
He walked right up to me andsaid I feel like I've known you
from a past life.
I said first of all, get yourwhat out of my face.
Second of all, what do you meanby a past life?
That was the thing that brokethe dam.
I had no clue what the hellthat meant, but that triggered
something in me.
He taught me about books.
He taught me about meditation.

(05:45):
He taught me about everythinghe wanted to teach me, because
he was a typical Utah.
He could not talk to anyone inhis family about this shit.
No one.
Everyone would have justostracized him, kicked him out
of the church.
He loved being around me and Iloved being around him.
He sent me to his meditationteacher learned for about four
weeks.
After that I knew there was more.

(06:05):
I don't know why I was askingthat question, but I knew there
was more and I said uh, there'sgot to.
What else can I do?
He said well, there's thisindividual that I haven't sent
someone to in about a decade andyou don't mess with this guy.
Most people don't want to meetwith this guy.
He's just.
He's just a unique guy.
I said I'll talk to him.
He's like well, you can't wastehis time.
I was like, do you think I'mgoing to waste his time?

(06:26):
Like holy shit man, just put mein front of him.
I had a picture of Steve Jobs onmy phone, because this was
around 2013, when he was a bigdeal and the Walter Isaacson
book and everyone was talkingabout him in the movies and
everything.
When I crossed paths with thisindividual and I walked up to
his house for the first time, heopened the door.
He looked just like him.
So again, the universe.
It had nothing to do with SteveJobs.

(06:46):
He had the same glasses, thesame buzz head, the same light
beard, the same face, everything.
So I looked at him again noframe of reference, spirituality
or religion.
I said I don't know.
I don't know why I'm sayingthis, but whatever you tell me
to do, I'm going to do the nextmany years.
I sat by his side.
I read everything he told me toread.
I meditated, I did everythinghe told me to do.

(07:08):
He was a teacher in a differentsense and this is why the chief
consciousness officer and allthis stuff that we're going to
talk about later came about.
He was the teacher thatstripped it all away.
He had me read knowledge not tofill my already overwhelmed
mind like everyone else is onthe planet.
He had me want.
He wanted me to get to thepoint where I finally understood
that every single God, everyreligion, every political side,

(07:31):
every conflict, every division,everything that causes a
conflict and vision on thisplanet, anything that says I'm
right, you're wrong, all of thatshit, it's all coming from the
same source.
I asked him.
I asked him for truth, not arelative truth, not, not, not,
not my, not my Catholic truth,not my Republican truth, not
this truth.
I want a truth.
I wanted, I wanted tounderstand where it came from.
Kind of like the question ofwhat's better, heads or tails of

(07:54):
the coin.
Most intelligent people wouldsay, well, it's the same, no
shit.
So where did the coin come from?
Because we are continuously, ashuman beings, choosing sides
and that never made sense to me.
So this, this is where theneutrality comes, this is where
the um not not choosing sidescomes from.
This is where I get a lot ofindividuals who don't know if

(08:14):
I'm for them or against them.
So they just kind of turn orwalk away because they can't
understand in their mind.
Neutrality.
It just like scares the shitout of them.
So he is a very powerfulindividual.
He stripped it all away, uh,just for the hell of it, just to
tell he can levitate.
He can see everything that'sgoing on in you.
He knows all your thoughts.

(08:35):
He can tell anyone where theyneed to go into the hospital,
fix any type of can't any ofthat anything.
He just scares the shit out ofpeople and as this planet
continues on this path, thatmythical, magical shit that I
just said is going to be verynormal.
So how about that for an intro?

Speaker 2 (08:54):
That is one hell of an intro.
I have so many questions.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
Good, that's the reason.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Let me start with the silly ones.
Yeah, let me start with thesilly ones.
What part of Utah are you from?

Speaker 1 (09:06):
Salt Lake City.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
What high school did you go?

Speaker 1 (09:09):
to oh God, Cottonwood , you from Utah too.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
I went to Skyline.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
At what year?

Speaker 3 (09:16):
91.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
Okay, I graduated in 98.

Speaker 3 (09:20):
Okay, so did you play baseball.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
I did.
I probably umpired one of yourgames then oh, you were that son
of a bitch that called me.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
Okay, I got it oh yeah, that was me.
I don't remember, do you?
Were you there the year the uhcottonwood coach uh, either got
fired or took all the money fromthe fundraising and took all
the uh, yeah, there, yeah, therewas a year, they, they, the guy
who was fundraising, he tookall the all the funds and took
off.
He was the head coach, gotfired, he took all of the

(09:52):
banners and everything down and,oh my God, no, I did not
remember that.
That was not my year?

Speaker 1 (09:58):
That was not my year, it wasn't my coach.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
That's the Cottonwood story I remember.
So, um, you know.
So I am LDS and I'm an armychaplain, and so it's
interesting to hear you say thatbecause for me, I'm one of
those guys, as an army chaplain,who's more than happy to help
anybody find whatever religion,faith, spirituality.
I don't do the judgmental thingbecause as much as an army chap

(10:25):
of my job is to say how can Ihelp you get where I get that
vibe?
And I've seen the judgmental onboth sides of being LDS outside
of Utah towards me.
And I've seen judgmental in SaltLake, going like my my uh late
brother-in-law, he grew upnon-LDS and he would have LDS

(10:45):
families say, hey, you can'tplay with Frank because he's not
LDS, and that just blew my mindbecause it's like crazy, huh.
We're supposed to be accepting.
So yeah, so it's reallyinteresting to hear your
background and I have a veryclear idea of the neighborhood
and area you grew up in, so Ican see how that would be a
challenge.
It would be very forming.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
That's awesome.
That is very cool manInteresting Such a small world.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah To it.
So, all right, you spoke aboutneutrality and that's kind of
one of those things where it'sthat I guess it's that star that
everybody tries to reach right.
You hear it all the time inmedia and politics and
everything.
Everyone wants to be neutral.
How were you able to achievethis, or how is it even possible

(11:35):
?
Like everything in the worldthat we know about is based off
of bias.
So how difficult was thatprocess?
How difficult was that process?

Speaker 1 (11:43):
Well, so, uh, lebron James knew he was going to be
really good at basketball, right?
Leo Messi, um, we have certainthings.
There's mathematicians.
Mathematicians love math,scientists love science,
basketball players lovebasketball right, they,
everyone's got this certainunique talent that's kind of
comes easy to them.

(12:04):
Mine took about 30 years to 30,35 years to understand, but
because of my background,because of my parents, like
they're, I've never heard of astory like that.
We, we didn't go to church, weweren't for it, we weren't
against it.
It's just something we did nottalk about, like the Mormon
thing that we're talking about.
It didn't even, it didn't eventranslate to me.
It didn't matter if we were, weweren't right, it really didn't

(12:25):
matter.
Um, to cross paths with anindividual, like I did with my
teacher, to have him have him,uh, strip away all of that bias
and the conditioning, which wasvery minimal in the first place,
because of how I was raised,because of my incarnation with
this life, because of how I wasraised, because of my

(12:46):
incarnation with this life, itis very difficult.
But the other thing that reallyhelps with that is when you're
starting to learn from a teacherlike that, you start to
understand consciousness,everything's consciousness,
everything physical andnon-physical is consciousness.
It is fundamental to ourreality, to our experience.
Understanding that, and that'sa big thing with this position,
that's why we're doing so manypodcasts, that's why we want to
bring it into businessunderstanding consciousness, but

(13:08):
also understanding the mind.
The mind is, like you said, bias.
The mind is a divided tool.
The mind only knows this orthat, right or wrong, catholic
or atheist, republican orDemocrat.
It only knows sides.
It will never be a hundredpercent sure about anything.
We can talk about it.
We can talk about when ourbones we just feel a hundred

(13:28):
percent.
This is the way, but the personyou think is crazy also fills
it in their bones.
This is a hundred percent theway right.
We can go into the semantics ofneutrality.
We can go into the semantics ofof all of these discussions
that so many podcasts have andmany people argue about.
My question always to this is,though and I like to go a little
bit deeper We've been doingthis since the beginning of

(13:51):
humanity.
We truly believe, at some pointone side's going to win, the
other side's going to be okaywith it, and we're all just
going to go off into a utopicfuture and and we're just going
to move on.
Never, it's never happened.
It's never happened.
Einstein, the whole Einsteincult, doing the same thing over
and over again, expectingdifferent results, as a

(14:11):
definition of insanity.
Yet we continue to do it timeand time again.
Now to the code here the bestchaplain in the world.
There are some uniqueindividuals that are
nonjudgmental.
There are some uniqueindividuals that don't care if
you're Mormon or Catholic oratheist or Republican or
Democrat or anything right.
But just look at the world.
The vast majority, the divisionof conflict that's created on

(14:32):
this planet is because of that,because my God's better than
your God, because Republican andDemocrat, I'm Trump, I'm Biden
and all this stuff.
Again, it's.
It's just the way it is.
But I want to start to bringawareness to this.
I want to start to bringawareness to how the mind works
and I want to start to bringawareness to, if we do expand
our awareness, how we canminimize the division and
conflict.
So the neutrality.
There are a small group ofindividuals there in the middle,

(14:55):
but no one pays attention tothem, because the first thing
everyone wants to know is areyou for me, are you against me?
Do you believe what I believe,or are we going to argue Right
when someone's neutral, I'mtelling you I can't.
I can't begin to tell you howmany times someone asked me who
I'm for and I'm like, no, I'mnot for them.
Oh, you're a Biden?
Yeah, no, no, I'm a Trump.
Oh, you're like my son, you'reanarchist?

(15:16):
No, I'm not that either.
And they will just turn andwalk away.
We don't understand neutrality.
We don't know how to deal withit, but there are people out
there that are, that areunbiased and unconditioned.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
Well, and the way?
The way the current argument isis hey, do you like bananas?
Well, yeah, I love bananas.
Well, what have you got againstapples?
I didn't say anything aboutapples.
I like apples too, oh, butoranges are the best, oh, wait,
ok.
So to me, as a chaplain, as aperson, I'm always trying to

(15:53):
look for the win-wins, and Ithink that's where the
neutrality becomes is that wecan come to a solution.
And KJ and I are very political.
That's what we do on this.
That's why we both kind of youknow, we kind of raised our
eyebrows, but at the same time,kj and I are in a position where
he leads a little bit left I ama pretty strong conservative

(16:14):
but at the same time, there's nojudgment going on.
We both just want what is bestoverall and if we can find that
neutral where everybody's happyno-transcript.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
So the main point of Chief Conscious Officer, whether
it's a political podcast or abusiness podcast, trying to
bring out the burnout, theretention, the division and
conflict within the organization.
So it doesn't matter which one.
When we're having thesediscussions like this, every
time I hear it, just like yousaid, someone will say I'm on
the left.
Every time I hear it, just likeyou said, someone will say I'm

(17:05):
on the left.
I'm on the left, I'm on theright, I'm Catholic, I'm atheist
, whatever it is.
Every time someone talks to methey say I want to leave the
world better for my kids, I wantto leave this planet better, I,
I?
Uh, to each their own right.
We're all talking in a verynice way right now, in a podcast
, right?
We always say that we love ourkids.

(17:28):
We don't care what the otherside thinks, and that's
perfectly fine.
The atheist says that, theCatholic says that, the
Republican says that, theDemocrat says that.
My question is why is the worldso divided and conflicted then?
Because because, like, like themen in black, remember, when

(17:49):
they're sitting on the parkbench and and Will Smith's
talking to Tommy Lee Jones, he'slike, as individuals, we're
fine, as a group, we're adisaster Right.
So when we're just in, whenwe're individuals with the
podcast and we're and we'reputting our best foot forward
and maybe we're just on a firstdate, right, we're always going
to oh, you're going to be a damnprince.

(18:09):
As time goes on, we kind of letthe world see who we are.
But I always hear that, I hearthe good stories, I hear how
kind people are, and I knoweveryone's not lying to me, I
know they're not lying to me,but we again have been doing
this since the beginning ofhumanity.
The world's never been sodivided and conflicted, right?
We've got 10,000 books onhappiness.

(18:34):
We've never been so unhappy,we've never spent more money on
obesity, we've never been so fat, we've never spent more money
on burnout retention rate, allthis business shit.
Conscious capitalism, consciousleadership, conscious
management, and we've never beenso divided and conflicted
within the organization.
So what am I missing?
We got 20 years of wellnessprograms where we're stuffing
meditation and Tai Chi and yogadown the company's gullet, and
yet the company's got moreburnout rate, the company's more

(18:56):
divided, conflicted than everbetween executives and employees
.
Something's missing, becausewe're continuously talking about
the heads and tails of the coinand the head says I love my
family.
I don't care what tails does,just let them be.
Tails says the same thing, justlike you just said a second ago
, and I agree with you and Iknow you're not lying.
I know you're a kind person, Iknow KJ is a kind person, but

(19:18):
why is there still so muchdivision and conflict?
Why is there so much thathappens outside of that comment
which everyone says?
Why is there still so muchdivision of conflict?
We've got to get to a deeperunderstanding of consciousness.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
So let me ask you a question here, and hopefully I
switched my headphone audio.
Is that better?
Okay?
So I think we've always had theconflict and one of the
questions I would have is has itgotten worse because of, right
now, what we're doing and notthis podcast, but the social

(19:53):
media, the access to instantinformation, the loss of
critical thinking, the lack ofwisdom?
To me and this is the differenceas far as how I've kind of
always defined it isintelligence is the ability to
learn something.
Everybody has intelligence, itdoesn't matter really who they

(20:15):
are.
But wisdom is when you're ableto say, hey, I just learned
something new.
And instead of saying I know itlike a book, now I know this.
Actually, what you've done isyou've opened the door to the
new library and walk in and goeverything behind this book.
Wow, look at everything Ididn't know and that wisdom has
just evaporated.

(20:36):
People are going no, no, I knowthe book and I can fact check
instantly and you're wrong andI'm right.
And I wonder how much that hasto contribute.
With all the positives thathave come with the technological
advances and the access toinformation, our wisdom has has,
I don't want to say bottomedout, but it's definitely taken a
hit.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Completely agree.
We, we, we.
I hope that we, at some pointin the very near future, are
incredibly embarrassed with thelast 15 to 20 years of how we
treated social media Letting theworld know stuff we have that
most of the world doesn't,Taking pictures of our food,
selfies, shit like that.
It's embarrassing and mostadults will do it.

(21:19):
I just yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
Well, I can't to how many people in this country
specifically that have nevergone outside of this country and
they talk about the poor inthis country and you say do you
realize that the poor in thiscountry are still the 1% of the
world?
Like people that are truly poorwould murder to get here and be
poor in America.
So let's be realistic aboutwhat poor actually means.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Agreed.
Let me ask this question.
So do you think consciousnesscan evolve without conflict, or
is disruption kind of like anecessary part of expanding
awareness?
Where do you see yourself inthat realm?

Speaker 1 (22:05):
It could be both.
It's both.
We live in a dualistic world,we live in a divided time, we
live with a tool that's divided,so all of these questions are
going to be at the level of themind.
Everything we discuss is at thelevel of the mind, so it's
always going to be both.
And a great teacher once saidthe spiritual or human maturity
of an individual is theirokayness with contradiction.
So the point being here isconsciousness.

(22:27):
Let's what is consciousness foryour listeners?
Let's, let's get to that,because the big thing we're
doing is we're bringing intopolitics, we're bringing into
business.
The first question everyone hasis what is consciousness?
The best metaphor is this wisefish swimming through the ocean
swims by two young fish and sayshey, boys, how's the water?
The two young fish look at eachother and say what's water?

(22:50):
That's consciousness.
Us three doing this podcastlive right now, we're swimming
in it.
Your listeners are swimming init, the planet's swimming in it,
the earth swimming in it, theuniverse is swimming at the
galaxies, the stars, the animals, the plants, everything
physical and non-physical.
That is the material, that'sthe word, that's the construct
we've given, everything physicaland non-physical in this world.
Okay, so to take it one stepfurther.

(23:11):
People mistakenly believeconsciousness is conscious
totally, totally differentthings.
Consciousness is a nounphysical, everything right,
everything physical,non-physical.
Conscious is a verb conscious.
All three of us are conscious.
Touch, taste, feel.
We were given those abilities.
We had nothing to do with that.
But we can see, we can smell,we can taste, we can touch.

(23:34):
We can do all of that.
If I get knocked in the head,I'm unconscious.
I'm conscious because I'm awareAwareness is a totally
different subject here, but Idon't want to get into all the
minutia of that.
Consciousness is everything,physical and non-physical.
It's pure.
It birthed everything that weknow in this realm, physical and

(23:54):
non-physical.
Nonphysical, okay.
We, with the tool we've beengiven that only knows either or
right or wrong, catholic oratheist.
Against me, for me, bias,conditioning how we were raised,
what we were taught, what ourparents told us, what our
teachers told us, that wasdivided because of the tool

(24:15):
inside our head, because youtake, as the best chaplain in
the world would put it, you takesomeone from Utah born to a
super Mormon family, but on dayone they're adopted by a
Japanese family.
That kid's Buddhist and hespeaks fluent Japanese.
You take someone from theMiddle East born to a Muslim
family day, one adopted bysomeone in Texas.
They'd be perfect.

(24:35):
They'd have the yeehaw drawland they would be speaking
perfect English and they'd beBaptist.
Those are the kind of metaphorsand examples I like to talk
about.
Rather than the semantics ofwhat's right or wrong, let's
just the simple stuff of howconditioned and biased we are.
That conditioned and biased youasked about 10 minutes ago is
simply because of how we wereraised and what we were raised

(24:56):
around, what we were taught andwho taught us.
That, to me, is the heads andtails of the coin, and that's
the only thing we pay attentionto.
My question always is where didthe coin come from?
Consciousness, once more peoplestart to understand
consciousness, that they areconsciousness.
They have access toconsciousness more than just
their mind and they can tap intoit.
It changes everything.

(25:17):
It expands their awareness fromhere to here.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Do you believe like institutions, like religion,
government and capitalism arecapable of becoming conscious?

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Or you think they just we have to do a complete
reawakening to get to that level.
No, no, no, no, we know we cantake it to a different level to
complete you know theindividuals that are have left
capitalism and and and thegovernment.
They hate the government andthey hate Jesus because Catholic
.
Let them down, now they'reatheists.
All all those individuals thatjust think they need to just
bring everything crashing down.
That's the heads to the tailsof the coin, all the religious

(25:56):
people.
And then they go becomespiritual and they think
spirituality is better.
That's the heads of the tailsof the coin.
The conversation, or the topicthat's never in conversations,
is levels of consciousness.
Think about it like a graderight.
The vast majority of thisplanet's level of consciousness
is around third, fourth grade.
Now, I don't say thatinsultingly, because what you

(26:17):
said earlier the best chaplainin the world it's not about
intelligence.
You can have two 170 iq harvardgrad individuals completely at
each other's throat becauseone's republican, one's democrat
.
That's a lack of clarity.
That's an elementary level ofclarity, just all of that
division of conflict becausethey're not seeing things
clearly.

(26:38):
What we can do is we can bringthe awareness of what
consciousness is, kind of likethe four minute mile, completely
impossible.
The guy ran it.
Now thousands of people can doit Once we plant the seed of
consciousness in the individual.
Within politics that want to bebipartisan and neutral, or
business, where the spreadbetween executives and employees

(26:58):
are just spreading right.
Just bring consciousness tothem.
It removes division andconflict, it bridges the gap, it
gives everyone access at secondgrade, third grade, junior,
high, high school, college, phdlevel.
It allows them to go from thirdgrade to fourth or fifth grade.
And my question to that commentis if I'm a ceo, do I want

(27:19):
third graders as my employees,or fifth graders?
They're always going to sayfifth, a little bit older, a
little bit smarter, a little bitbetter with life, a little bit
more self-sustaining ingovernment, do you want someone
in third or fifth?
Right, we can raise everyone'slevel of consciousness a little
bit within this, within thisrealm, within these.
This time we've gotten thisbody.
That shift is a massive,massive shift, planetarily

(27:43):
Massive.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
So my question is this, and I think it's an
interesting.
I think it's an interestingquestion because I'm going to
ask it the nature versus nurturequestion because one of the
things so for for one of my onein school I had to take

(28:06):
multiculturalism and one of thethings they said was you know,
you're a white male and so ifyou're counseling with a black
female from the South, you'regoing to have to look at her and
you're going to have to talk toher differently because of how
she was raised.
And I looked at that and I saidthat's the dumbest thing I've
ever heard, because that'sassuming all black women from

(28:27):
the South are monolithic in thesame thing.
And so my argument was my olderbrother and I were both raised
basically in the same house,definitely with the same parents
, in the same schools, a lot ofthe same teachers, some of the
same friends, and yet he is afar left expat living in Germany

(28:49):
who thinks Trump is the youknow Antichrist and crystals
protect his kids.
And I'm a militaristic chaplain, conservative LDS.
And so I think our nurture, inmy opinion, was a lot.
My brother will say it was verydifferent, but I don't agree

(29:10):
with that.
I think the nurture was prettyclose and the ability to change
comes from our worldview andwhat is cemented and what is not
cemented by that worldview.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
So the nature versus nurture is like the heads and
tails of the coin.
Someone like you would say whatyou said, and it was just
nature.
Right, you've got those two.
That's just how you and yourbrother were built.
I would agree with that.
And then you've got someone whocomes up in an abusive
household right, and there wouldbe a lot of nurture in that.
It would scar the kid.
Maybe the mom was was terribleto the daughter, maybe the son

(29:48):
was, or the father was terribleto the son, that little nurture
thing.
Whatever they experienced, theywould talk the polar opposite
of you and I would agree withthat.
Like I said, the maturity of theindividuals is their okayness
with contradiction.
What the problem we've donesince the beginning of humanity
is.
When we ask a very intelligentquestion like that, we pick a
side.
What I'm saying is, if there'smore people to understand this

(30:12):
conversation and answer it justwith a little bit more depth and
a little bit more understanding, they would say both.
What's wrong with both?
It depends on how theindividual came up, it depends
on their own experience, itdepends on how they, uh, how
they believe in nature versusnurture.
All of that Right, but all ofthese questions are continuously
at the level of the mind.
The level of the mind wants toknow which one you choose.

(30:35):
When someone says botheveryone's like, what do you
mean?
Both what's?

Speaker 2 (30:40):
wrong with?

Speaker 1 (30:40):
both Right In your like I said in your example
complete nature.
You guys were raised by thesame parents at the same time
and you guys are complete polaropposite, right, our two boys,
14 and 11, their mom's the bestmom in the world, but they are
two drastically differentindividuals.
There's nothing on God's greenearth that she can do to make

(31:02):
one like the other.
Nothing.
Nothing but in a differentexperience or a different time
or a different example.
Nurture would be something thatreally impacted an individual.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
And I think for my, my question is not to say it has
to be one or the other, becauseI do think there's obviously.
You know it's both for sure.
I mean, just because you knowsomebody is raised in an
extremely abusive household andreally has had the worst of what
humanity can be they can stillhave.
There are examples of peoplewho've pulled themselves out of

(31:35):
that and reached the highesthighs, themselves out of that
and reach the highest highs.
And just the same way you havepeople that are raised like in
America right now.
I think one of the biggestthings you see a pattern is very
entitled college age kids thathave had everything given to
them turn around and say howunfair the world is.
And you're sitting there going,do you not see like what you

(31:57):
have and the benefits you have,and so it's almost looking for
conflict.
So that's where I kind ofwonder and that's where I say I
think worldview really comesinto play.
Um, because it is how you person, as you were talking to that
consciousness, my consciousness,is different from anybody
else's and I truly believe,believe we are, to use today's

(32:20):
parlance, I'm player one andeverybody else is an NPC.
You two, right now you're bothNPCs, because KJ might be a
higher level NPC, because webuilt that relationship.
But I can't get into KJ's mind.
I can never truly understandwhat is in KJ's mind.
We've known each other for 10years and every day truly would
be a mystery for me to say whatis in KJ's mind.
We've known each other for 10years and every day truly would

(32:41):
be a mystery for me to say whatis KJ thinking?
Who is he really?
I have a vague understanding,but we try to have this idea of
like I can understand everybodyelse.
Most of us can't evenunderstand ourselves.
So instead of going out andsaying, oh, you're this, you're
that, the other, for me I'm kindof like I think this is what I

(33:03):
think, I think this is what Ibelieve.
I think I'm right, but hey, ifI'm not, I'm more than happy to
listen and help me out, tell mewhere I'm wrong so I can get
better, and unfortunately Idon't think that is the default
for most people.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
No, it's not, absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
I got questions that I've been kind of mulling over.
So if, let's just say the worldwere to adapt the philosophy of
higher consciousness overnight,what do you think the first
institution or cultural normwill be the first one to fall?

Speaker 1 (33:39):
Oh, nothing's going to fall these hypotheticals.
It's not possible.
8 billion people with their youknow, this physical body and
the nervous systems we've beengiving.
Um, if let's put it this way,let's metaphorically, let's
change it.
Let's take an eight year oldand put them into high school.
Hey, dude, go get a girlfriendand learn how to drive.
That kid's getting his asskicked right.

(34:00):
That's what I'm talking aboutlevels of consciousness.
So if all 8 billion people tookon higher consciousness, what
that means and that's what theconsciousness is doing on this
planet, that's why there's somuch chaos and division right
now.
Consciousness is raising.
It's 8 billion people.
It's taking 8 billion peoplewith it.
So everyone in a sense, isadapting to higher consciousness

(34:21):
.
But a second grader is adaptingto third grade.
A sixth grader may be adaptinginto moving into junior high.
Someone in junior high may beadapting and going into high
school, right, just like a12-year-old, naturally turning
13.
Or an 8-year-old understandingSanta and then maybe by 9 or 10,
they wonder if it's theirparents.
It's a subtle, subtle shift.

(34:43):
Not everyone's going to the topof the mountain.
Like I said, you can't put aneight-year-old in 10th grade and
tell him to go drive a car.
The world will be a disaster.
The kid's going to kill himself.
The universe understands that.
That's the same universe thatcreated all three of us out of a
single cell inside of a woman'sbody.
If we want to talk aboutmagical shit, that to me is the
most insane thing in the world.
That we've got a body, physicalorgans, consciousness, we're

(35:04):
saying, we're talking to eachother.
We've got a laptop, there'spodcasts and everything from a
single cell inside a woman'sbody, but just because 8 billion
people did it, we just take itfor granted.
The whole planet is awakening,but the the, the misnomer of
everyone saying awakening, theythink everyone's going to the
top of the mountain like theyogi meditating in the Himalayas

(35:24):
and it's going to be all oneand everyone's going to wear
loose-fitting white clothing andwear mala beads and they're
going to talk quietly andeveryone's going to be love
Bullshit.
It's not going to happen.
What we can do, and what theuniverse knows it can do, is it
can take a third grader tofourth or fifth.
That subtle shift changes abusiness, it changes politics,
it changes a spouse, it changesa relationship, it changes kids,

(35:47):
changes adults.
That's what's happening.
Naturally, and just so we canbring it more aware to the
business, we can bring it moreaware to the religion.
We can bring awareness to it ata very simple understanding.
So when people start tounderstand it a little bit more,
it just changes their awareness.
It takes them again from hereto here.
Everything they know in theworld is in this little horse,

(36:07):
little blinders.
When they, even with thisslight expansion, they got
access to more knowledge, moreinformation, more solutions,
more questions, different, this,different books, expands
everything.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
that's just that net, the way natural, the universe
naturally does it there's a bookby Paulo Coelho called the
Alchemist, which you could takethis and expand it, because the
story is a little shepherd boywho has a dream and the dream is
that he'll find this treasurein the pyramids.
And he's from Southern Spain,doesn't know what the pyramids

(36:38):
are, but he has this dream andas he follows his path, the
recurring theme is anyone who isfollowing their dreams.
The universe conspires toassist them and it is such a.
It's a great.
It's a short book I mean fifth,sixth graders can read this and
to me it's one of the mostprofound non-scriptural books

(37:00):
that there is.
I actually sent him a copy andsaid will you sign this?
And gave it to my wife as awedding present 25 years ago and
she still hasn't read it.
But to me it's very much alongthose lines.
If we look at things, and to meas humans, we ignore and I'm
going to go religious here for asecond we ignore the fact that

(37:24):
there is such a thing as truthwith a capital T and when you
recognize truth with a capital T, if you don't follow that,
that's your own lacking, that'syour choices and that's where we
fall in and that's where wefail If we're always trying to
reach that truth of the capitalG, whatever that is.

(37:44):
And I'm not going to judgeanybody else, but to me, I think
we all have that same truth.
That's where we progress andthat's what you're talking about
.
Going from third grade tofourth grade to fifth grade is
when we are in pursuit of thatultimate truth.
That's where we grow and that'swhere we find value.
And part of that wisdom isunderstanding that everybody is
on their own journey andeverybody's on their own path.

(38:07):
And you do look at a lot of thespiritual ideas and I think most
of them, from Christ to Buddha,all the way through, is, hey,
we are all just trying to do ourbest and that's all we can do.
We are all going to fail.
And if we don't allow for otherpeople their failures, then
that's just worse on us becauseI can't, I'm not perfect, I'm

(38:29):
never going to make anybody elseperfect.
My kids aren't perfect, mygoodness, they'll tell me I'm
not perfect every day.
Not perfect every day.
And as we judge other peoplefor their imperfections, it goes
back to the Christian of yousee the splinter in your
friend's eye, but not the moatin your own eye.
We're so quick to see otherpeople's problems.

(38:50):
But we don't understand thatwe're limited and we're full of
errors and we have problems ofourselves, but we're so quick to
say we have problems ofourselves, but we're so quick to
say but you're wrong.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
Yeah, I mean, and to my point 20 minutes ago, you're
a Mormon chaplain.
A Muslim would say the samething.

(39:36):
A Catholic would say the samething, a Buddhist would.
It's continuous.
We continue to say the sameshit and what you're saying is
correct, it's intelligent, it'sheartfelt, it's right.
I know you mean it, I know it'struth.
Why is the world so divided andconflicted?
Because we're selfish.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
We're selfish.
I think, that's what it iswe're selfish.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
My point being we've spent all of humanity here,
always here.
Mental toughness, mental crisis, mental health, mental, this
self-development train like aNavy SEAL mental, mental, mental

(40:17):
, mental, mental, mental.
This is a tool that only knowsdivision.
It only knows division, it onlyknows division.
It uses us.
You go deep into consciousness.
You understand the mind camefrom consciousness.
You tap into consciousness, youare consciousness.
Every piece of knowledge you'veever understood came from
consciousness.
You use the mind, rather themind using you.
You understand it's.

(40:38):
You understand that yourpolitics are the same as the
side that you think is ruiningthe world.
You understand that the commentthat just came out of Lance's
mouth is the same comment thatcomes out of the Muslim and the
Hindu and the Buddhist and theCatholic and the atheist.
Just bringing awareness to that, just at a deeper level, just
at a different answer, that'swhere we start to really expand
things.
Because usually, when you saywhat you say, lance, people will

(41:01):
say, yeah, I completely agreewith you, and we'd move on to
the next question.
Well, we've been moving on tothe next question since the
beginning of humanity and we'venever been so divided and
conflicted.
So I just want to bringawareness to consciousness.
I want to bring awareness toone just one layer deeper and
just see what happens.
I may be a lunatic, this may bethe worst thing I've ever done
in my life, and I may make abillion people worse off, but it

(41:23):
hasn't been tried, andneutrality is not a thing.
So let's see what happens.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
So, charlie, let me ask you something, then, and
this is, I think, what you'regetting at, but I want to see if
I'm right.
Okay, the difference is we aredominated by our physical brain
and we're not allowing our mindto have the true power, because

(41:50):
the mind is what our realconsciousness is, it's not our
brain, it's not the firingsynapses, it's that, whatever
word you want to call, but it'syour mind versus your brain.
And that, maybe, is where thedisconnect in the world comes
from, because our brain is inthe physical world, but our
minds aren't.
And if it's not, if that's notright, feel free to say nope,

(42:15):
I'm out on a limb, which happensall the time.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
No, you're, you're, no, you're not out on a limb.
I'm just trying to figure outhow to answer that in the best
way possible, because there'squite a few intelligent people
in the neuroscience,neurosurgeon, that truly still
believe the brain createsconsciousness.
Thinking the brain createsconsciousness is like listening
to your car radio and the band'sgoing to be inside your car.

(42:40):
There have been tens ofmillions of near-death
experiences where there's no ekg, no brain snaps this, no heart,
everything.
They're dead for 10, 20, 50minutes and they can tell you
everything that happened withinside that uh, surgical or at
the car wreck.
Consciousness is fundamental toour reality.
Consciousness was there beforethe brain.
Consciousness birthed the brain.
Consciousness birthed the mind.

(43:00):
It birthed our thoughts.
Right, what you're saying iscorrect.
There's the physical brain.
It's just a filter.
The mind is, in a sense,separate.
It's being filtered throughthere, but both of those were
created by consciousness.
What you said about 15 minutesago about how you don't know

(43:21):
what KJ thinks, right.
If you take a light and youshine it through a prism, it's
going to refract a billiondifferent rays of light to our
eyes.
How this world's built, how ourmind perceives things, we're
going to see a billion differentrays of light.
They're going to be separate.
One's going to go off thatdirection, one's going to go off

(43:43):
that direction.
One's going to go up, one'sgoing to go down.
But if you bring it back to thesource, it's only going to be
one.
There's only one mind, there'sonly one consciousness, there's
only one of us.
It's the greatest maturity ofan individuals.
Are okay with contradiction,but we are separate.

(44:04):
And there's three individuals,ones in some weird hotel,
apparently kj, you got lance andyou got charlie.
Right, we are separate in howwe're perceiving the world.
So the brain, the mind, onlyknows division.
It only knows division.
It only knows this or that.

(44:24):
Our parents taught us.
Their parents before themtaught us pick a side, pick a
God, pick a religion, pick apolitician.
If you're born in Utah, you'remost likely red and Republican.
If you're born up in theNorthwest, you're most likely
blue and a Democrat.
Right, the point is justbringing awareness to how
divided this tool is, that ourcondition is so easily removed

(44:45):
when we understand that we'rejust what we learned, what we're
around, what our parents taughtus.
The main point is bringing itback down to consciousness,
bringing it down to the source,once we just start-.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
Charlie, let me ask you a question here.
Go ahead and once we just startto Charlie let me ask you a
question here.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
Go ahead.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
Oh, I don't know if you're familiar with Orson Scott
Card.
He's an author.
He wrote Ender's Game, yes, andone of my favorite books.
So in oh, I'll disagree becauseI love the book and the series
so much.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
Uh-oh.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
I lost him back on lance but uh, there.
Oh, okay, there we go.
Did I come back on?
No, I hear you yep.
So later on, one of the books iscalled children of the mind and
and in it he about thisconnection and he calls it a
full and remember, this isscience fiction.
Uh, he calls this iowa is whathe would call this different
spelling, the state.

(45:49):
But interesting because hepoint he in this.
In the book he's saying or atleast you know, again, it's a
science fiction book that we'reall connected, some connected
connected more, some connectedless In your beliefs on
consciousness, do you believethat there is a connection If

(46:10):
there is, like my connection tomy dad is going to be a lot
stronger than some random personwho lives in China right now
that I don't really know, butthere is still a human
connection or is that somethingthat wouldn't make sense?
I'm just curious Do you believethere is an innate connection
that we all have at, I'll say,the spiritual level or the

(46:34):
conscious level, or is thatsomething it doesn't really play
into into your thought processor philosophy?

Speaker 1 (46:44):
first of all, every sci-fi movie is just a coming
attraction.
Every sci-fi movie is just theconstruct we've been given it.
You watch what happens in thenext couple years.
Every one of those movies willbe realistic, if not completely
real.
All of that shit's real whenyou understand consciousness and

(47:06):
you can tap into it and youwork with, like I work with and
I've spoken to a lot of remoteviewers.
You remember the CIA and theStargate program where they'd be
able to sit here in Utah andthey'd be able to tell you
what's on a desk in Russia.
So, to your point of yourconnection, it's all connected
and there are individuals thatwhen they get very talented or
they have an awareness or theywant to get good at remote

(47:28):
viewing, they can check outother planets.
They can check out what's inthe other room.
They could come to your roomright now and tell you what's
going on.
That's a real thing.
The governments do it allacross the globe.
That's the.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
I mean, that's, that's, it's uh yeah, old school
that used to be called astralprojection, correct.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Well, there's astral projection, there's out of body
experiences, there's there's ashit ton of stuff.
But to your point, yes, you aremore connected.
You will have more of aconnection to your dad, to your
family, to people who are closeto you.
Right, there's a great teacherthat had a great analogy of an
infinite river of consciousnessand you know how.
In a river there's whirlpoolsand then all of a sudden the
whirlpool just kind ofdissipates.
He says that's an incarnation.

(48:11):
So when the whirlpool goes intothat infinite river of
consciousness, this whirlpool isgoing to pull in individuals.
That's going to be your mom,your dad, your brother, your
sister, your friends.
Kj, me, right, I'm at yourwhirlpool right now.
Just to your point of like,we're an NPC, right, you've got
your own little whirlpool,you've got your own little
consciousness and there'sindividuals.

(48:31):
There's people in the grocerystore, there's people in your
neighborhood, there's people youlove.
There's people, yes, you willhave a much deeper connection to
your dad, to your wife, to yourkids, than some random person
in China, because they're not inyour awareness.
If they become in yourawareness, guess what?
They're coming near yourwhirlpool.
You're going to have moreconnection to them, but just
like a single water that dropsinto an ocean.

(48:53):
That little drop of water intothe ocean is connected to
another drop and that dropsconnected to another drop, and
that drops connected to anotherdrop and that drops connect like
it's all just one ocean.
Now in our mind, how we're builtin this 3d realm with the very
divided mind, those are allconstructs.
We talk about it like it's allgoing to change.
How happy we are because we'rethis infinite soul and it's all

(49:14):
one and it's all love andeverything's going to be fine
after we die.
Sweet, that's, that's great.
Can I get there sooner?
Because I want to talk to mysoul and wonder what in the hell
he signed up for.
Again, the maturity of anindividual is they're okay with
contradiction, because that'sall this life is, is
contradiction.
But to your point, yes, you'regoing to have a much stronger

(49:35):
connection with your father andthose closest to you.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
Yeah, I think, just think just the answer of that
there is that connection toeverybody.
I think that that is lost inthe world is that, no matter how
slight that connection is, isthat we are connected to people
in some way, and not just people, but anything that has that
spirit or soul or whatever,whether it's our pets, whether

(49:59):
it's plants now again it mightthere might be an ant outside
I'm connected to by you know thethe most minute nothingness,
but there's still thatconnection.
And that's where I think thatthat we sometimes, um, we, we
kind of forget the value of justthe life we're living.
And that's kind of the downfallof when we don't recognize the

(50:24):
life that we're living.
And maybe that's why people,you know suicide is because they
, they miss that.
Well, I firmly, actually I'm notguessing, I know that that's
part of it is they, they missthose connections.
And so as we build thoseconnections, I think that's
truly where the value in thislife is are those connections.
And, to your point, as we havethose connections and

(50:45):
consciousness, as ourconsciousness grows, those
connections become easier andbetter, because your judgment
turns off when you becomeneutral and it's easier to make
a connection when you allowsomebody to believe what they
believe and you don't come froma point of you're wrong and I'm
right, and now we have thatconflict yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Expanded consciousness just makes you
more neutral and you don't givea shit if they're catholic or
atheist, you just don't.
You know it doesn't become athing of their identity, it just
becomes.
Because this neutrality, this,this position in business and
politics, it understands veryfirmly that it's not going to
change anyone's opinion orchange anyone's mind and it's
not meant to change anyone'sopinion or change anyone's mind
and it's not meant to.
That's neutrality.
That's the great thing aboutthis position.

(51:23):
There's no um manipulation.
There's no.
Hey, I'm the nice guy, you knowyou should come join the
catholics.
Hey, I'm a nice guy, you shouldcome join the republican party.
No neutrality step on thejourney to to, to manipulate
just, oh, you do whatever thehell you want to do legitimately

(51:45):
.
Do whatever the hell you wantto do.
Oh, now we're back.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
KJ go ahead now, sorry I lost both of your first
seconds.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
What was the question ?

Speaker 2 (51:58):
yeah, I was asking what is the?
What's the first step toneutrality and higher
consciousness?
Can you guys hear me?

Speaker 1 (52:04):
Yes, yeah, we got the question that time.
The first step is conversationslike this.
The first step is bringingawareness to what consciousness
is.
The first step is the metaphorof the fish swimming in the
ocean.
The first step is talking aboutneutrality.
It's again truly listening tothis conversation, because these
questions are asked all thetime, but I can promise you the
the way I answer them is alittle bit differently than what

(52:26):
the way other people answerthem right?
Just a subtle, subtle shift.
The seed's always going to beplanted to you guys.
The seed's going to be plantedto me.
The seed's going to be plantedto your listeners.
The universe has an infiniteamount of water.
It's a great gardener.
It'll just expand.
It'll just expand.

Speaker 3 (52:48):
That's how it begins.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
KJ, I'm letting you go, man.
I am blown away, man, I am justI'm about to tap that Before we
start.
Here's a great way to kind oftie it off, because my mind is
blown, man.
The whole idea of consciousnessand being able to, of knowledge

(53:12):
, is just something tied up.
So tell me more about your,your, your, your professional
journey.
Like how does that, how doesthat everything we talked about?
How does that make theorganization better?
How does that make our worldbetter?
How does that make societybetter?

Speaker 1 (53:32):
So this position?
Um, the most important thing todiscuss is what it's not.
Because people hearconsciousness, they think
spirituality, they think a verysmall group of individuals and
they think of the wellnessprogram that was crammed down
their throat the last 20 years.
Right here in the West, we'vegot a lot of atheists, a lot of
Catholics and a lot of Baptist,and as soon as they were asked
to meditate, they referencedBuddhism and they were

(53:54):
completely turned off by it,right?
So let's make that damn clear.
The chief consciousness officerdoesn't give a shit about that.
It is not another part of thewellness program.
The chief consciousness officerme in particular and the people
I'm helped train.
So when companies start hiringthis, they're going to be ready
for it.
They have a business background.
They understand business lingo.
They have an executivebackground as well right, they

(54:17):
can talk to them.
They can understand structure.
They can also understand thatthe business needs to be
profitable with purpose.
They need to treat theiremployees well, but they need to
get shit done.
It's not some spiritualindividual that comes in and
tells everyone to meditate andthey think it's going to solve
all the company's problems.
That's not the case, right?
This individual goes to the CEOand takes them from here to

(54:38):
here, helps them with strategy.
It helps HR hire differentindividuals, maybe higher
consciousness individuals, maybemarketing stuck on marketing
and they need some more creativeideas.
Well, everything that marketinghas been doing is right here.
In this little tunnel vision,you expand their awareness, they
got better ideas for marketing,sales, thinks of new ways to
sales.
The main thing here, too, though, is what's happened in the past

(54:58):
with conscious capitalism,which is not consciousness,
conscious leadership, consciousmanagement.
It's a two to four week program, maybe a two month program,
right, just for the executives.
What about the other 10 months?
And what about the other 90% ofthe employees?
You think it leaks down?
It doesn't.
It goes to those executives,and if they don't understand it,
if they don't have a level ofconsciousness to understand what

(55:19):
they're being taught, do youthink they can regurgitate it
and reteach it to customerservice, to mental management,
to operations, to manufacturing?
No, so what we've done is we'vespent a small fortune on the 10
to 20 executives within anorganization, and, yeah, they
feel a little bit happier.
Maybe they go on a 10-daysilent retreat or do some
psilocybin.
But to my question, businesshas never been more divided and

(55:42):
conflicted.
So the conscious capitalism,the conscious leadership and the
conscious management doesn'tseem to be leaking down to the
masses.
This position is a full-time,365 day a year, hanging out at
the watering hole, helpingcustomer service, helping
management, talking tooperations, talking to the
financial officer, talking tomarketing, talking to HR,
talking to everybody andbringing a culture of higher

(56:05):
clarity to everyone at everylevel of the business.
That is the drastic difference,just like technology.
30 years ago, everyone knewtechnology was taking over.
Everyone knew they needed a URLto be online, but not a single
person within the company knewhow to code.
So they looked in the cornerlike, hey, let's go get those
weird guys and girls and callthem chief technology officers.

(56:26):
Now it's a staple in theC-suite.
Consciousness is becoming thecentral focus of humanity.
So now, okay, hey, let's findsome weird dudes and know how to
talk about consciousness andhave metaphors about fish.
Hey, I'm right here, andthere's a couple other people
like me that are neutral too.
You should start hiring us.
This is a full-time position.
This is the big change here.
It's not a coach, it's not aconsultant, it's not a four-week

(56:49):
program.
It's day in and day out.
Everything is consciousness.
Kj, when you talk about yourmind being blown and trying to
figure things out.
You were already consciousness.
You were already tapped into it.
Now you're aware of it, now youhave access to it.
And the number one thing that Ilove to bring to everyone's
attention everything you've everknown, anything you've ever
read, anything you've everwatched in the video, anything

(57:10):
you've ever been taught,anything you've ever learned as
a religion, anything you've everbeen learned from politics
knowledge is structured inconsciousness.
Every thought, everythingyou've ever learned, is
consciousness.
You start to tap into that vastresource that those great
authors Paulo the alchemistwhere do you think that came
from?
You think those are hisoriginal thoughts Came from

(57:33):
consciousness.
They were just funneled throughhim and he made a shit ton of
money after it.
Whatever our awareness pointsto, when we understand, we're
consciousness.
We have access to any piece ofknowledge we've ever wanted.

Speaker 3 (57:48):
You know, it's funny, as you're saying this, that you
can say it to the top, you cansay it to the bottom and all
that.
You just completely described agood chaplain in the army.
Because we can say all theright things to the right people
in the Army, because we can sayall the right things to the
right people and it just stops,it doesn't go any further and it
is day in, day out trying tohelp these soldiers understand

(58:09):
the point of this stuff.
And the commanders go yeah,yeah, chaplain, whatever.
And the senior NCAA yeah, okay,chaplain.
And there's those few that kindof go oh, chaplain, yeah, I
like that.
So, man, I need to get into thechief consciousness officer game
because I think that would goright into my next career as I

(58:29):
retire this summer.
But hey, we're at about an hour, KJ, do you want to?
Charlie, we try to keep it foran hour and we have to do a
cutoff.
If you want to stay on, you'remore than welcome to, but we
don't want to monopolize yourtime on a Sunday night, so we'll
give you the last word here andfor those of you who want to
stay on, please do, and KJ willget back to our normal two-sided

(58:53):
unconsciousness arguments.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
Oh, you guys need me to leave so you guys can argue
about the sides.
Cool, awesome, thumbs up.
See you later.
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
No man.

Speaker 3 (59:04):
It doesn't do any good.
It doesn't do any good to talkpolitics when it's like or you
know we're going to talk about.
You know what happened inColorado today, and that's
definitely not consciousness.
With what?

Speaker 1 (59:16):
happened in Colorado.
Hold on, hold on.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
Just for the hell of it.
What happened in Colorado?
So they were having a kind of apeace walk, a Jewish peace walk
, and there was aself-proclaimed Muslim
Palestinian who modified someyard equipment, put gasoline in
it and used it as a modifiedflamethrower and threw Molotov
cocktails and severely burnedsix or more people because he

(59:46):
didn't agree with what's goingon in Palestine and Israel and
he said if the Jews are going tokill my people, I'm going to
kill them, even though thepeople in Colorado have
absolutely nothing to do with it.
And then the Colorado policeturn around and go.
We don't want to say that itwas terrorism, that's too soon,
even though the guy was yellingAllahu Akbar the whole time.

(01:00:06):
So it becomes this idea of youcan't condemn evil for being
evil, and this, to me, goes backto truth.
There is good and there is evilin this world.
And when you don't call outevil for evil, then you're just
allowing it to continue to existand people will say, well,
you're evil.
It goes back to somebody'sterrorist is somebody else's

(01:00:29):
freedom fighter.
And I say no good is good, evilis evil.
And if you're out harming otherpeople based on beliefs, you're
wrong and you're evil,especially if you're murdering
people because of their faithLike I don't.
And same thing.
I don't want anybody who'sJewish walking up to somebody
who's Palestinian or Muslim andtaking a gun out and pulling the

(01:00:50):
trigger.
That's just as evil.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Which I completely agree with.
But every religion has beendoing that since the beginning
of time, right?

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
For sure.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
So to that lady's comment, one person's terrorist
is someone other of someoneelse's freedom fighter.
Now, when, when we talk aboutneutrality?
I'll just make one more comment.
I was talking to a lady thatworks with human trafficking and
she was listening to me, likeyou guys are, and she was kind
of starting to get agitated andshe's like, well, where's your
neutrality with, um, uh, humantrafficking?
I'm like that's pretty blackand white.

(01:01:20):
I'm not being neutral there.
That's pretty bad.
Like that's, I'm not beingneutral there.
That's pretty bad.
Like, that's terrible.
Like, can you?
Again, the individual's maturityis their okayness with
contradiction.
There's a lot of gray area inthis world.
There's a lot of things that wecan bring to this discussion,
like, yes, evil is evil, good isgood.
To the lady's point, it's alittle bit of both when it comes
to that, because one terroristis someone's freedom fighter,

(01:01:40):
etc.
All religions, all Catholicism,all Mormons, all Muslims, we've
all done like all the storieswe've seen in history All sides
have killed people over becausetheir gods have been differently
Right.
So just bringing awareness tothat.
But then you come to a storyhere in Colorado.
That's, that's horrible,absolutely horrible.
It can be both.
That's just absolutely horrible.
That's horrible, absolutelyhorrible.

(01:02:01):
It can be both.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
That's just absolutely horrible and and
that's, I think that's when,when the woman you were talking
about, that goes to the um, thelogical fallacy of, uh, going to
the absurd absurdum.
Um, you know well, there's nosuch thing as good or bad, black
or white.
Yes, there.
Well, there's no such thing asgood or bad, black or white.
Yes, there is.
It is bad to pull a gun out andshoot somebody in the head

(01:02:26):
because you don't like them, forwhatever reason.
That's why I laugh at thingslike hate crimes.
Crime is never committed in thename of love and that is bad.
Hurting somebody is bad and soneutrality for the rest of the
time.
Sure, you're probably going to,if you can practice.
My guess is you would sayyou're going to practice,

(01:02:47):
hopefully practice neutrality99.9% of the time.
This is wrong.
I laugh at the moral relativismof when people say things like
who are you to judge me?
I should be able to do whateverI want.
I say OK, let's test that.

(01:03:08):
Go, walk down the middle of thehighway if you want to and see
how that works out for you,because everybody else is not
going to be avoiding you ifthey're going down the freeway
because you think you should beable to do it.
If you truly believe in moralrelativism, then you should have

(01:03:28):
no problem with me coming overthere and punching you directly
in the face because I feel likeI should be able to.
Why can't I?
So they're still good, they'restill right and they're still
wrong.
And I'm not even talking aboutlaws, I'm talking about the
moral good and bad.
And if you're trafficking kidsor people talk about the death

(01:03:49):
penalty.
If somebody says to me should achild molester, child
pornographer and molester andproducer get life in prison, I
say no, they should be castratedfirst and then thrown in jail.
If not the death penalty, I'mmore than happy with taking
those people off the earth.
So it's okay to havenon-neutrality when
non-neutrality is justified, butmost of the time, I think it's

(01:04:12):
fair to say that we can find aplace in neutrality, because
those aren't the extremeexamples.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Agreed, absolutely agree.
Well, boys, it's been a sliceof of heaven.

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
I'll let you guys get back to arguing, hey charlie,
it's been great if you didn'thave it up.
Uh, kj, do you want to hit that?

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
uh, that, uh, there you go is that the right line,
um any other ways they can reachyou.
Are you social?

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
Um, I assume you guys will put it in the video notes,
Just just through my LinkedIn.
Linkedin is the best Lost you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
KJ we definitely appreciate it.
The journey is just gettingstarted.
I can't wait to dive in somemore, brother.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
Yeah, Anything you guys need any questions,
anything your listeners want,let me know.
Thank you guys for having me on.
We'll see you later.

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
Alright, Charlie, have a good one.
See you guys, I think we mighthave to have Charlie back in six
months or a year or sooner.
That was really reallyinteresting.
I kind of believe a lot of whathe believes already Say again.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
For the guys in CTR media, if you guys are still
with us, we did run over alittle bit, but now we got to
say goodbye.
Hopefully you guys arecomfortable joining us.
You know where we are.
We're on Twitch, we're onYouTube, we're on Facebook.
Swing over and see us and we'llcatch you guys next week.
For those of you guys that arethat are following on CTR media,
I do apologize for running justa little bit over, but, man,

(01:05:46):
that interview was somethingspecial.
I enjoyed every bit of it,every bit of it.
That was.
That was fantastic, bro.
So Four minutes, 24 minutes ina world full of chaos, where do
you want to start?

Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
Well, first, we've got to do something about your
headphones, man.
We're missing the first two orthree, so you need to start when
you start talking.
You need to go.
I am going to now start myquestion Because the audio is
delayed.
It's the weirdest thing youknow.
It's funny though that whatCharlie was saying, I think,

(01:06:29):
really kind of goes into what wetalk about almost every week,
because we're talking about howdo we find those win-win
situations, what is it about?
What's going on in the worldwhere it is one side or the
other?
Little does he know what wefeel about federal politicians,

(01:06:49):
which is we think they arepretty much horrible human
beings that want nothing morethan to stay in power.
They are anything but neutral.
They want to have their way sothat they stay in power and they
get all the benefits of that,and I would extend that again to
even journalists they want topush their worldview.

(01:07:10):
You and I, yeah, I've got myworldview and you've got your
worldview.
But I'm trying to remember thelast time I told somebody they
were wrong on something thatwasn't factual.
It's different if you're like,hey, two plus two is five.
That's factually wrong.
So even with consciousness andI think that's the neutrality

(01:07:30):
goes so far, but when you have ablack and white, like two plus
two is four, that's not neutral.
That is good.
That's something that I thinkmost people can agree with.
That is good, right, that'ssomething that I think most
people can agree with.

(01:07:51):
And when we're looking atwhat's going on in the world
today, I have a real problemwith the media not calling out
the evil that is going on thewhole.
You have Israel, who we allknow.
The conflict in Gaza has beengoing on now for a year and a
half.
Israel has come out and theyare pushing some aid into Gaza

(01:08:13):
because, despite what anybodythinks, israel is not intent on
side in Gaza.
They are not there to wipe outthe.
I think we looked up thenumbers last week or the week

(01:08:33):
before.
What was it?
7 or 9 million Palestiniansthat are living in Gaza leaders,
which is good.
They are there to get backtheir hostages and ultimately,
they just kind of want.
My opinion is Israel wants tobe left alone, to do Israel's
things and not have to worryabout a neighbor next door
sending in suicide bombers andterrorists and all that.
So, and you can have adifferent opinion, that's fine

(01:08:56):
If you don't believe that that'sIsrael's goals, that's fine,
but they go in and they're doingaid, and during this aid
distribution, the shots startringing out and it ended up
killing, I believe, 20 oddPalestinians and injuring 100
more, and the AP reported thatit was the Israeli soldiers just

(01:09:17):
opened fire on thesePalestinians.
It was picked up by the NewYork Times, by the Washington
Post, all the normal players,they all came out and said, yep,
that's exactly what happened,and, as of about four hours ago,
suddenly it was retracted,because these news organizations

(01:09:37):
are listening to what is beingput out by Hamas, and Hamas
hasn't always been honest.
Gasp who knew?
And so it's starting to comeout that it looks like Hamas was
opening fire on their ownpeople, which this is not the
first time that has happened,and so I think it's really

(01:09:59):
horrible and we're going to seewhat happens.
I don't know if this is becauseof what the US is pushing.
As far as the peace deal, Iknow there's some hemming and
hawing.
The US peace deal, which wastrying to get a ceasefire,
return the hostages I believe itwas only half of the hostages
that are still alive back toIsrael, and one of the things

(01:10:20):
that's really interesting aboutthis peace deal and the peace
deals or exchanges thatconsistently happen.
I think it's ironic and, casey,tell me what your thought on
this is.
I think it's ironic when thePalestinians will sit and claim
and scream about how the Jewsthink they're better than they

(01:10:40):
are.
The Israelis and the Zionistsare better.
They treat us like nobodies andwe're not nearly as worth.
And then they turn around andsay, well, we'll give you the 10
hostages we have, but we want athousand prisoners in return.
Well, didn't that just meanthat every one Palestinian you
know, one Jew is worth 100Palestinians by your own math?

(01:11:03):
And I think that's kind offunny because that happens over
and over and over and that rightnow is one of the sticking
points of Hamas is saying, well,we're not going to do this
because of the numbers that areinvolved.
And I believe they're saying,for the 10 hostages that they
will release, they want it's 11,I think it's 1,100 prisoners,

(01:11:24):
including 125 odd, that arecurrently serving life sentences
in Israel for acts of terrorand murder, etc.
Etc.
So I think that it's reallyinteresting to see how, in the
West, this is being covered Aand B, that it's not being
called out for what it is, whichis just pure propaganda and

(01:11:48):
manipulation by Hamas and theHamas media machine, that the
Western people are buying hookline and sinker.
I just don't get it.
No, I do get it, I just thinkit's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
It's difficult to find out what is the actual
truth.
Between all the propagandathat's coming out, nobody will
tell you.
Nobody who's ever experiencedcoming out it's nobody will tell
you.
Nobody who's ever experiencedwar will be heard the whistle of

(01:12:32):
a bullet fly past their head.
Will be an advocate of peacebecause it just it changes after
that.
I would think the hamasgovernment would want to do any
and everything.
It's, uh, just watching thevideos of, just watching the

(01:13:04):
videos of Grain and you know,I'm saying just basic
necessities.

Speaker 3 (01:13:14):
Hey, kj, I think we need to.
I think we need to, I think weneed to kill it.
You're, unfortunately, kj is ina hotel and so his Wi-Fi is
cutting in and out.
We're getting about one out ofevery three words from you.
I don't know, maybe that's mybad, maybe it's my Wi-Fi that's
going bad.
It certainly has in the past,so I think we're going to call

(01:13:37):
it for tonight.
Thanks for joining us.
We will be back next week.
Fingers crossed KJ will be onthe road in his move.
You're not going to hear thestory, the long story.
I'll just tell you the shortstory, because I asked KJ, he
lost a bet for his beard.
His daughter bet him that thePacers would win game four

(01:13:59):
against the Knicks and KJ wasconvinced it was going to go
back to New York 2-2.
His daughter was right thePacers and Oklahoma City in, I
think, the greatest NBA finalever, simply because it is the
situation that the NBA wants theabsolute least.

(01:14:21):
If you go back to the 90s,that's what they were scared of.
They were scared of the IndianaPacers because they were two of
the smallest markets.
And so now, fast forward 25years and it's Oklahoma City and
Indiana.
I love it.
I'm not going to watch a lot ofit.

(01:14:43):
I love it because I I just Ilove new, fresh blood.
I don't like Boston win and LAevery year.
Some people are like that.
I would have been fine with theKnicks, because the Knicks
haven't been in the finals.
Uh gosh, I don't know the lasttime the Knicks were in the
finals.
I know their last championshipwas in the 70s, so so, with that
, we will be here next week at830.

(01:15:03):
Kj will hopefully be in abetter situation with his Wi-Fi
and his headphones, and I'll tryto do a better job with my
setup as well.
Also, and this is somethingthat's going to happen a couple
weeks I'm going to be on adebate and I will put that
information out, but one ofthese online debates with Andrew
from the Whatever podcast.
We are going to be on a debateagainst each other and I'm going

(01:15:27):
to basically be defending myfaith, as the primer is Joseph
Smith is a false prophet, so Iwill be defending that Joseph
Smith was not a false prophet,the founder of the LDS faith.
And it's going to be hosted bySarah the raging tomato on

(01:15:49):
Twitter that's her call, but Ihope you guys in a couple of
weeks want to go in and get somecross.
Yeah, I know, sarah the raging.
I didn't know who this was, butif you, if you want to follow
somebody on Twitter, it's a.
It's great's great.
She is a moderator for thesedebates.
They're actually doing a debateright now.
I don't see what the primer is,but Sarah the Raging Tomato and

(01:16:11):
until next week, two pogs, samepog time, same pog channel.
Safe travels to KJ Liberty.
Thanks for being on with ustonight and everybody else who's
watching, and we will see younext week.

Speaker 2 (01:16:40):
Try to take over the world.
All right, yo, let's get intoit.
Try to take over the world.

Speaker 3 (01:16:47):
You're preaching treating the cops.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
Try to take over the world and greatest chaplain in
the world, mr Larson Neal, tryto take over the world.