December 18th, 2024 - Special Guest Tim

Tim sits down with Corey and talks about his recovery journey.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the two seventeen Recovering Broadcast. If you don't
make mistakes, you don't learn. With your host Corey Winfield,
you know how you know fish is bad if you
can't put it on pizza and special guests Justin Burke
um Nail totally does not dictate the movie at all.
Jesse Smoker. I called the string and take the Tama

(00:26):
Mitchell O'Brien, he goes you record new o sleep big.
I was like nope, and goes Winfield dead. You got
this terror in his eyes.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
And I was like nope, and then he's like it
was stoke.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Here got your wat.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
It is the eighteenth of December twenty twenty four. My
name is Cory Winfield, and none of those people on
the podcast today.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
It's just the button I hit for the open and
that's what you get.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Jesse Smoker actually is in the building today, but my
guests in the studio it's Tim go out.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Do you mind if I use your last name?

Speaker 3 (01:04):
No, that's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
So how you doing today?

Speaker 3 (01:06):
Pretty?

Speaker 1 (01:06):
How are you doing well? Man?

Speaker 2 (01:08):
We're having a little holiday party here at the office
and you came in to partake in the festivities. We
got some meatballs and some sandwiches, some cookies. There's a
meeting going on right now. I think you didn't want
to interrupt it.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
No, No, I knows the doors closed.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, well because it's a dharma meeting and you're familiar
with those, and they do like meditation at the beginning.
And I had to go out there because actually, yes,
he came in and he saw all the food and he.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Was just like hell, yeah, well I'm talking.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
He was at level twelve outside level twelve, you know,
and we're inside of needing it too. Yeah, and the
meeting room is right there, So I had to go
out there. I'm like, hey, guys, there's a meeting going on.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
They're like what. I was like, there's a meeting going on.
They're like, oh, there's a meeting.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
I was like, I appreciate the excitement, that's how cool
and all, but like you got to bring it down
to inside voices though. But because they didn't know, you know,
they were just excited the holiday food and it just
brings out the best in people sometimes, you know, just
the Christmases next week, do you have big plans.

Speaker 4 (02:03):
I'm going to Cadillact spend the time with my family.
Gonna go to my dad's and I'm gonna go to
my mom's.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
Okay. Is that where you grew up? Cadillact? Yeah, yep,
you graduated from high school there?

Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yep? Sure did How many people were.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
In your graduating class? Ballpark?

Speaker 4 (02:16):
It?

Speaker 3 (02:17):
Three hundred? Maybe it's a big ass school. M M.
Maybe a little less, Okay, it's pretty I mean it's
pretty big.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Well bigger than my school. Who was the class clown?
Did you guys have to vote for that?

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (02:29):
I'm sure we did.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
I don't know though, were you not active in school
stuff or just like, hey, I went there, did my work.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
And no I got voted best smile?

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Okay, there you go. Yeah, and you were in school?
Were you part of the the sport guys, the book club,
the drama club, the fire with everybody?

Speaker 3 (02:49):
No, I really didn't do any like extra creakers like that.
I took for we did foreign language and stuff, you know,
for a language week and things like that.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
But see we oh you know French, Oh my god, dang, bro.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
No, I was friends with everybody.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
And is that when you started partying, because you're a
person in recovery, and is that when the partying started
or what did you?

Speaker 4 (03:16):
So, my my drug use started with like marijuana drinking occasionally.
It wasn't really like school related like a lot of people's,
you know, Mine was kind of like more at outside
of school.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, well, I mean that's why I did it most
of my I don't think I drink much in school.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Well no, I mean like more of my.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Personal like after you graduated.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
No, I mean like home life kind of you know diuse.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Your parents are divorced. You mentioned, yeah, without mentioning it,
but you did.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
I don't know if they wanted to be put on blast,
but they are.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
Yeah, No, they're divorced. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
I don't know why they couldn't make it work, but
they couldn't.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
No, that's okay. Sometimes people just need to.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
But sometimes like because having it, do you have a stepfather, stepmother,
so I'm adopted?

Speaker 4 (04:04):
I had my my mom is my mom, and then
her second husband adopted my sister and I sister me.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Because that can throw a wrench to a lot of
people's psyche, and it's hard to address it because you
just think, well, that's what happened, and that's fine, and
that's how I grew up, and this is where it's
supposed to be okay, this way it's happening. But to
actually go through the emotions of it all, and you know,
being adopted, does that bring any kind of like, oh,

(04:32):
I wasn't wanted or because I'm not adopted, I don't
know these things.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
No, you know, I mean, you know, growing up there's
always that sense of like, you know, our real dad
didn't want anything to do with us, this and that.
But you know what comes along with recovery is you
learn that addiction isn't a you know, it's not a choice.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
It's a disease. And our our biological dad is an alcoholic.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (04:54):
So you know, I remember being very little on my
grandma telling me like, you know, he's sick.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
It's not that he doesn't love you, he's just sick.
You know. I accepted that then.

Speaker 4 (05:04):
And then once I got older and you know, became
an adict myself and learned about the ins and outs
of it, you know, it became you know, it wasn't
as a devastating blow, you know what I mean, it
kind of softened.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
It, like, Okay, Well that's good to know for people
out there listening, because they might be like, hey, he's
struggling through some of the same stuff. But back to
the outside of schools, at the family life and stuff
like that. Like I used the drinking to like fit in,
Like I didn't want to be known as someone who

(05:39):
wasn't cool, you know, Like I wanted to fit in.
I wanted to make people laugh. And that's why I
started making people laugh, you know. I was just like, hey,
I can make people laugh, and that makes me cool,
you know. But then like we go to a party,
and of course I would want to drink, you know,
and because all the other cool kids were doing it, yeah,
I need to drink too, And it just kind of
became a thing before I knew it. I was drinking
because it was Friday. I was drinking because it was Sunday.

(05:59):
I was drinking little football, the Cubs weren I mean,
whatever it was, there was always drinking involved.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
And it was a very slippery slope for me. But
your drug of choice wasn't.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
Alcohol, No, No, It started with I think the first
drug outside of marijuana that de abused was probably viking
in then adderall and then meth okay, and then was
I found math. It was you know, nothing else mattered,
so Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
Some people will say, oh, but I'm just going to
drink now, because that wasn't my thing. I'm just going
to smoke some weed because it's legal now here in Michigan.
And yeah, that's fine. My doctor gave to me because
my back hurt. They'll make some excuse.

Speaker 5 (06:35):
Up, you know.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yeah, absolutely, And I always.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Say to them because I tried it too, Oh I'll
just smoke weed. I'll just do that. It was never
good enough for what my brain had already been like boom, yeah,
stamp approved. This is what I need, which for me
was alcohol. So you're saying the same thing, just a
different drug of choice.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (06:53):
You know, there's been times where I've gone to treatment
and thought to myself, oh, when I hit a year clean,
I'll smoke some weed because it's not dangerous. But for me,
I know that it wouldn't be enough. And the second
I smoke weed, my clean time's gone. So why not
put a needle in my arm?

Speaker 5 (07:09):
You know?

Speaker 3 (07:09):
And that's kind of where I'm at today.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
But you're in recovery. When you say you're in recovery, man,
I don't know what. And those people can live their life,
how are they want? But for me because I just
had six years the other day, and gradually I put
on there that you know, today, mark's my six years sober.
And somebody was like, though it's supposed to be you're
in recovery when you say you are. I didn't respond
to him because you just kind of trolled me a

(07:32):
little bit, trying to troll me and whatever people want
to believe, do what you need to do. But I'm
just saying for me, I once was of the mindset
of all smoke weed. You don't know, but every time
I would smoke weed, it would let my guard down
and then I would think, well, just a half pint's fine,
but I can't even drink a drop. I can't do
a shot. Like it's not enough for me. My brain

(07:53):
will I want more? Yeah, you know, And I think
what you said too is the same thing. You know,
like your brain is going to bemediately want more because
it's not what you're wanting. It might be cool a
couple of days, Sure, you do it here there, but
in the long run, why would you take that risk
of baiting yourself, setting yourself up for a trap?

Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (08:14):
Yeah, And for me, a lot of what my addiction
is is also sex. So I know last year, after
I left treatment and went to the tea house and relapsed,
that started with sex and it just.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
Opened the door to doing math. So it's been a
long road trying to separate too.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
But oh, because you mean the two together were just.

Speaker 4 (08:35):
Yeah, so I can probably count on one hand the
amount of times I've ever had sex without math, you
know what I mean, Because definitely today, like where I
am in my recovery, like if you were to offer
me sex, it's it's offering me math. It's the same
thing for me because they're so intertwined. So it's been
a lot of working with my therapist to try and
unravel those two because one is a basic human need.

(08:56):
The other is you know, it's okay to say I
can never do drugs again. It's probab probably not realistic
to say that I'm never going to not have sex again.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Right, and maybe and I don't know how your therapist
brings it up like this or maybe they do, maybe
they don't, but just finding that person to have that
intimate relationship with as opposed to just like hey, let's
look up, you're hot, you know.

Speaker 4 (09:17):
Right, Yeah, And that's terrifying to me the idea of
you know, like romantic intimacy, Like I can be into
like this conversation, I can be intimate, I can be
intimate with the guys in the house, you know, like
in rehab.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
You know.

Speaker 4 (09:29):
I love that, you know, developing that relationship you know,
on a deeper level like that. But when it comes
to romance or anything like that, it's that's terrifying.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, well because you haven't done it.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
No, yeah, exactly, it's all foreign.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
If I was the fly a plane today, everybody'd be
terrified first of all. Yeah, but I'll be terrified, so
I don't want to help I'm doing yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
You know.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
And that's just because you got to get that under
your belt, which you could look at like, oh my god,
that's the scariest thing, or you could look at it
as exciting.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah, yes, true, Like.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
You're gonna get to experience this one day, tim Yeah,
and it's gonna be magical and you're gonna be like,
oh my god, that's what it's about. Yeah, and you're
gonna have so much more appreciation for it. And I
can't wait for you to get there because it will happen, right,
you know, You're gonna meet that person and it's going
to be special and you're just it's gonna blow your mind.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
You can be like, oh my god, like that's what
that is.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yep, that's what it's like, waking up next to somebody,
you know, like it'll be special and you'll love it. Yeah,
you know, so just wait for it, you know, don't
pull yourself out. And obviously you don't want to do
that because that does lead to other stuff too.

Speaker 4 (10:33):
And yeah, I know because and that's also a big,
big part of my addiction story, is that very thing.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
So well, I'm rooting for you, Tim, Thank you. So
I'd like to hire you one day too until seventeen recovery.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
I think you'd be great man.

Speaker 4 (10:47):
Yeah, well, you know I went and got that uh
that nimbsas training done and they got my chauffeur's license.

Speaker 3 (10:54):
I'm working on it obviously.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, take me minute to find that drop is going
to hit a different one first. But yeah, the plans
that you have for your future seemed bright. You know,
you don't know exactly what they hold. Does that bother you?
You know, you don't know exactly what's coming down the road.

Speaker 4 (11:16):
I think that it's uh you know, because I just
in a few days, I'll have eat months clean and
that'll be the most clean time I've ever had. So
anything beyond Thursday, it's like or Friday is like a
you know, uncharted territory for me. So as long as
I continue on the path and the trajectory that I'm on,

(11:38):
I'm confident that the unknown, you know.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
What's to come, is going to be good for me. Yeah,
I just can't.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Use That's number one. That's what I tell I had
a guy coming earlier. His name is Jamie, and he
was my roommate back the last time I went to treatment,
and there was something that was told to us, and
it was like, just don't take the first drink, you know,
stay away from the first one. Stay away from that,
because once you take the first one, you're done, and
then the guilt you know, from it, and then the

(12:09):
shame that you've caused yourself, and it just builds right
down to a hole of God.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Just keep going.

Speaker 4 (12:16):
Yeah, And I'm just I'm so interested in burning my
life to the ground again.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
You've had enough.

Speaker 4 (12:21):
I've rebuilt my life so many times. It's I can't
even count how many cars I've traded how many times
I've you know, just had two pairs of pants, one
pairs of shoes, like nothing to my name, you know.
And it's hard work building that back, you know, and
it's expensive building that back, you know.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Stay away from the first one.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
And then somebody was tell me or asked me yesterday,
how come I keep picking people?

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Okay, it was somebody that works for us, but it
was like, how come I keep picking people up? And
the first thing they'll say is, well, I stopped going
to meetings. So when I went to ship from there,
I was like, well, there's some to that. But at
the same time, if that's all you're doing is going
to meetings, you good luck.

Speaker 5 (13:05):
You know.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
I had to change my entire life, you know it.
I was told people places things, places things, and I'm
sitting on my couch in Arkansas about ready to open
another bottle, and I'm like.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
People places things. I don't go anywhere. I don't hang
out with people who drink, Like who are we supposed
to do?

Speaker 2 (13:22):
And then I had a guy who I was giving
a rounde to is giving me the same thing that
I used to spit to myself. And it's like, well,
here's the problem man. And here's what I didn't get
the time. You have to go find those people. You
have to find those places. You have to get off
the couch. Opportunities not just come knocking on your door.
Hey you want some great stuff, here you go. It's
not gonna happen. You have to get off the couch.
You have to get out in. Those people you can
find at meetings. You know, you can find those people

(13:43):
at church, you can find those people in library, the gym, wherever.

Speaker 5 (13:46):
You know.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
But making those connections and being places with people and
making yourself a part of the community is I think
was huge for me. So people that are just going
to meetings, sure it can be done. I don't think
I would be happy just going to meetings. Yeah, you know.
I had to go to five or seven meetings a
week or something like that when I was in sober living,
which was fine, but it got me into a routine,

(14:09):
and it got me into knowing what I needed out
of those meetings. And it was just, you know, a
chance to vent get stuff off my chest. And those
are fine. I like doing that. But it wasn't just
me going to meetings. It was me going to school,
you know. It was what I was doing outside of.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
All of that.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah, building a network, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Creating a nonprofit, you know, having goals, finding a hot wife,
you know, has plans now, but it's beyond just going
to meetings.

Speaker 3 (14:37):
You know.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
That's in my opinion as a professional radio broadcaster anyway, Like,
that's that's what worked for me, and that's what I see,
And that was my answer to him.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
You know, it's like, yeah, you know, like you're going
to hear.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
It a lot, and I've heard a lot and you
probably heard it a lot too, but that is one
of the first things that kind of goes like and
if you go back to my past and my return
to use, I think that's what themstance calls it, my
relapse is I would stop going to meetings you know sometimes,
but I don't know it all leads to whatever it is.
But so you're a manager at a place now, which

(15:11):
is great, yep. Is that something that you see in
your future? Are you just like, hey, I'm holding it
down today.

Speaker 4 (15:20):
You know, I've been a manager in the past at
other places that I've worked, and I always get a
really nice sense of fulfillment out of it. You know,
I like affecting change and like leading a team, you know, inspiring.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
Other people to like do their job well. So I
enjoy management.

Speaker 4 (15:37):
And you know, the trajectory that this company has right now,
and like their business plans for the future, there's a
lot of room for growth, you know, if I play
my cards right and I just keep doing what I'm doing,
you know, there's definitely career in it for me right now.
But I also know that, you know, there's a few
things that've been missing in my recovery. You know, this
was my ninth time in rehab, and every time I

(15:59):
do something a little different each time. And I think
one of the big changes that I need to do
is I need to work in recovery in order to
maintain long term recovery. But you know, I've never had
long term recovery, so I've never gotten to a point
where somebody would hire me, you know, because I can't
be trusted, you know, And that's just the fact. You know,

(16:19):
you relapse every who you relapse every few months, you know,
because that's my pattern. I used for six seven months,
I go to rehab for three months. I used for
six seven months, I go to rehab. You know, it's
just it's been this NonStop cycle, you know, so this time,
I'm trying to do a few things different. You know
that you mentioned church. That's one of the big changes

(16:41):
that I've made this time.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
One of the my times which it kind of stuck,
but it didn't. And I learned a lot. And you've learned.
You said, you've been nine times a treatment. You've learned,
and you could probably still remember some of the stuff
that you learned that you still hold on to today
from the.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
First time you went.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Yeah, Like, just because we go so many times doesn't
mean we didn't learn anything in those other times. It's
just we were still trying to do it our way,
or we were put ourselves in a situation that we
didn't expect the next thing. You know, we're saying yes,
we wanted to say no, but next and then you're off.
And it just takes that one split decision of the
attic brain to come back and you're off. And if

(17:18):
you're not grounded, you're not set, it can hit you
sideways really quick. So my point here is, but going
to all those times, and some people would say, oh
my god, and I've heard it.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
We can't believe nothing.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
No, no, no, We're learning things along the way, But I
think that you would be an asset because of that.
As for people like myself, you know, fifteen times is stupid,
you know, like it wasn't exactly treatment fifteen times when
I count the mental institutions, the mental health places as well,
because my drinking led me there, so they're all in there.

(17:52):
But I think, you know, going so many times and
not giving up kind of shows something. And I think
that a lot of people will kind of look up
to that. Even you know, if you just went one
do I want to treat it one time? And I
would raise an eyebrow like, oh, you had a problem
or you just didn't want to go to jail anymore,
like right, because jail didn't scare me. Jail didn't scare
you either, you know, like not I don't even know

(18:13):
if you've been to jail, but I'm just saying, like
the thought of going to jail, you were like, oh,
I'm not doing that drug.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
Let me put it down.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
Right, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (18:20):
No.

Speaker 4 (18:20):
What drives me to get clean a lot of times is, uh,
I get so far away from being human, you know
what I mean, Like the isolation and the hallucinations and
the dirty shit that I do, you know, selling my body.
You know, it's just you know, being around people who
are just not interested in doing anything good. You know,

(18:44):
And for me, a lot of times, the decision to
go to rehab is because I need, you know, I
just have this overwhelming need to reconnect again, you know.
Going to rehab for me is learning how to be
around people, learning how to eat food around people, learning
how to you know, talk to people, and I can
make those connections and not just see people as like
sex objects or myself as a sex object. You know,

(19:06):
I need to, you know, more than anything, I need
to get some distance between me and that last use.
You know, if I decide that I'm going to get clean,
you know, while i'm you know, I'm out there using,
I decide IM going to get clean. If I don't
go to treatment, I'm not I'm not going to stop using,
right you know. I may stop for a couple of weeks,
you know, but then the pain of it, you know,
gets to be just so much that I you know,

(19:28):
I want to use so I don't feel that anymore.
And being in treatment, you have that really nice option
of having therapy twenty four seven. You know, you've got
twenty other addicts to talk to. You're in a place
that's you know, safe for you to reach out and connect.
And yeah, and you know what, I really like rehab.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
I do fun. It is a kind of like I
wish I could go on a rehab vacation.

Speaker 4 (19:52):
Yeah, and you know, rehab has always been an exceptional
human experience for me. I'm a reheab rock star because
I've done it so many times and I really enjoy it.
And I had a friend tell me this last time,
you know, when I said to him that I enjoyed
going to rehab, He's like, you know what, I think,
maybe that's part of the problem, you know what I mean,
Like you're not building a life or a network or
a foundation where you feel that connected in real life.

(20:15):
So you use you know, meth is my shortcut too, intimacy.
That's the long and short of it, you know what
I mean. So yeah, it's just you know, I tell
the guys all the time, and I go to de Caskie,
bring the meeting, and you know, that brotherhood you feel
here doesn't stop here, right, you know, there's a there's
AA you know, there's these tea houses. You know, you
can come here, you know, to Dow seventeen Recovery, Like

(20:37):
there are so many options in Traverse City to stay connected.
You know, it doesn't stop when you leave rehab.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
No, and that's something I never wanted to get into.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
And I would.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
I like to rehab, but I'd only be there for
a week. And I'm like, all right, I figured it out.
See yeah, you know, because I thought i'd figured it out. Oh,
I'm smarter than you people, And you know that that
takes a while for some people to get over that
you're not smarter than other people.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
You're not. Oh it didn't work for him, Well he's stupid.
It hadn't work for me, you know.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Okay, you know it took me a long time to
figure that out, that I was probably actually dumber than
most people.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
But when you do.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Start to kind of figure that out and realize, Okay,
what they're saying is probably true and I should listen,
And then you know, I had to realize it wasn't
a game anymore. When I got a duy and I
don't remember driving, like I could have killed people. I
didn't want to become that person. So what do I
need to do to fix this? You know, like what
do I do? What am I missing? And then I
started digging into my past. It's like, okay, a relationship
with my father and I didn't know it affected me

(21:33):
as much as it did because I'm a guy.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
I'm just supposed to get over it and blah blah blah.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
But no, no, I I had a great stepdad, but
I never had that father son relationship growing up, and
I think that led to a lot of it. So
to look in the mirror and actually go through that
and process it, it really helped. And I thought, wow,
that is something that I need to address, and I
address it as an adult, not a drunk person texting
your dad f off you, piece of shit. Yeah you know,

(22:02):
I'm not proud of it, but you know I wouldn't
change it, you know, Like I had to tell my dad,
you know, like, hey, sorry if I hurt your feelings,
but not sorry I sent it, you know, because that's
how I was feeling at that time, whether I was
drunk or not. Now, I told him I will address
it differently now that I because I think when I
reached out of two years sober, I have two years sober.
I will address this with you in a different manner.
But and then to actually talk to him and hear

(22:24):
his side and it's like, oh, okay, everybody has story.
You know, there's two sides of her story, and to
actually hear his and kind of okay and rationally think
about it.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
You know, I had to be two years sober.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
If I was three months sober, I would have been
like sh whatever, dude, and I probably would start drinking again.
But to know when you're ready to tackle those issues
and yours is intimacy.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
You know, one of them. I don't know how many
you have, But how do you tackle it? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
I mean, you don't know either, but you're working through it. Yeah,
and a little bit better today, but then yesterday.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
Is kind of my motto.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
But if you can go through treatment lots of times,
and if you can go have fun there and learn
about yourself and grow, I think that's that's huge. And
at the end, when I was forced to be there
ninety days was like I did sixty. But it was
a huge thing for me because I couldn't just leave
after a week. And the people I've met along the way,

(23:15):
I mean, there's a guy I think he said he
was a Meschigan now. But I met him in Grand
Rapids and he reached out to me and was like, hey, man,
me and my girl, we got thirty days clean, you know.
And this was probably a month or two ago. I
told him I was like checking with me every week,
and that he did one week later and then hasn't.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
Ever heard from him. So I'm like, oh Jesus, you
know it.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
I'm not going to go track him down or anything
and tell me he's a bad person, but it's probably
not good. But the fact that he still reaches out
to me, you know, it's huge. And I just met
some really, really cool ass people in treatment. It was
a guy that we picked up the other day that
I know, and it was his first time going to treatment,
and we told him to go to Dakowski. That's what
I recommended. I was like, you know, go to ATS

(23:56):
here in Trevor City. He's like, man, I'm really nervous,
and I told him. I was like, dude, You're going
to meet some really cool ass people in there, and
he just kind of looked at me and I and
it took me back to the very first time I
jumped on a plane went to LA and I'm just
remember like what kind of weirdos am I gonna meet?
And you just like, because you watch TV and you
see movies and oh, these drug people are really bad
And I'm gonna be in there with some people who
do meth and heroin.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
I'm just a drinker ID better.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
Than them because you have that mentality that I did,
and when I first went in and quickly realized I
could have been hooked on any of those other drugs
just as easily.

Speaker 5 (24:26):
You know.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
But it was funny because he just looked at me,
you know, like, what are you talking about, dude? Like
it was over the phone too, so it was just
like I see his eyebrows raised up, like I'm gonna
meet some cool people, Like I'm gonna meet a bunch of.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Drug addicts, bro.

Speaker 5 (24:41):
You know.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
It's like, nah, you'll understand when you get there, I
told them. But I think he's in a good spot.
And the people over there at ATS, you know, especially
the men's program and maybe the women's too. I don't
know it as much obviously or as well, but the
men's program, the people that run it, the people that
work there, they're in recovery.

Speaker 5 (25:00):
Man.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
That's huge.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
Yeah, you know, yeah, Dave g he fucking he.

Speaker 4 (25:05):
You know, I in rehab many times before I went
to ATS, and uh, when I went to Dakowski, that's
kind of when my mentality about recovery shifted. It was
the first time I ever went that I followed through
without patient, the first time I ever went to a
tea house.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
You know. When I met Dave g the way he.

Speaker 4 (25:26):
Just the way he carries himself and like talks about
recovery and just the way that he breaks it down
for you, it changed my whole, my whole perspective. Like
he you know, like the way he treated us. It
changed my life, you know. And you know, I've always
wanted to recovery, but I until I came to ATS,

(25:47):
you know, it was just I'm going to go to
rehab because I got to save my job. Like my
parents are pissed I got to go to rehab or
I'm trying to save this relationship. Like if I go
to treatment, like maybe they'll take me back.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
You know.

Speaker 4 (25:57):
It's it's always been that, you know, and but these
last few years it's it's been about me, you know.
And I've always wanted recovery, you know, and once you
go to a or NA enough when you relapse, there's
not a lot of fun.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
Because they've they've ruined it. Okay, you know what I mean.
You have twelve steps running through your head. You know
there's a better way.

Speaker 4 (26:20):
You know, all the people that you've met and all
the friends that you've made, and everyone who's been rooting for.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
You is now you know, disappointed.

Speaker 4 (26:26):
And like whenever every time I relapse, I always tell
them like, don't worry, I'll be back. I always come back.
There's just some things that I think I have to
do while i'm high before I can stop.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah, that's I mean.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Because I've known you for a few years now, and
you went to Lansing with us to the U fam Ryla.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
That was a good time. That was fun. I was
freaked out because I'm.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Like, oh my god, we're bringing all these people, they
are sober living and somebody's gonna screw up. It's gonna
be on us.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
But nobody did. It was great.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
No, yeah, it was great.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
And you know I've seen you go back out and
I've talked to them with Marnie about it too.

Speaker 3 (27:00):
You know.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
It's just like, man, I wish she would just call
us and ask us give him a ride or something.
You know.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
But you know as well as I know, if I
would have called you, you just would have been like, well,
not tucking to him, you know, like I don't know
when you're in the zone.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
You're in the zone.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, it's it's gonna be when Tim wants to go.
But all we can do is sit back and pray
and be like, well, we can just pray. They got
to get some back sooner than later, because the more
you're out there, the more stuff you burned down, you know.

Speaker 4 (27:26):
And eventually I always call you, guys, you know, what
are you doing Tuesday?

Speaker 1 (27:32):
No, We're always like excited to see that you're back
in there.

Speaker 5 (27:35):
You know.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
When Martie would work in the treatment center whatever, she
would see who comes in, and she would you know,
she would or maybe wouldn't tell me, oh so and
so is in here, and I'm like, oh, okay, yeah,
or maybe I think most of the time i'd see
it events, I'm like, oh shit, you're back in there,
all right, cool Tim, Glad to see you back. And
that's how I see most of the people, you know,
if we do like a volleyball or whatever kind of

(27:57):
event we're doing and got going on and somebody will
come up. Hey, we had a recovery Stories event. I
came up to me last time, and I heard from
him in a while. Last time I saw he was
posting videos of his interaction with the police getting arrested.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
I'm like, wow, would you post that?

Speaker 2 (28:14):
But you know, but he's in there, and he was
just like, man, I'm doing good and told me to
come see me. I don't know if he's even out
of treat me yet, but he is. I expect him
to come see us. But but it's cool to see
people again go back through there. And some people think, oh,
you've been there eight times, nine times, it's easy for
you to go back there. It's actually kind of harder sometimes.

Speaker 4 (28:34):
Yeah, you know, this last time, I when I graduated Dakoski.
The last time last year, you know, it was pretty
much made clear to me that, you know, if I
need a treatment again, it wouldn't be at Dakoski. And
that wasn't because you know, ATS loves me. I love them,
you know, great relationship. You know, it's always a fantastic

(28:54):
experience with them. But it got to the point where
you know, they told me, like, we're enabling you. At
this point, you just continue to allow you to come here,
do the program that you already know by heart. You
can walk in here, and you know you can walk
right through it because you know what to expect. You know,
if we don't start saying no to you, you know,
it's not you know, we're just enabling you. So they

(29:15):
told me they helped me get into treatment and I
could utilize out patient services and all that stuff, but
they wanted me to try it somewhere else, you know,
And I took that advice and I went up to
Great Lakes and the zoo and that was that was
terrifying going somewhere that wasn't because the last four times
before that I had been at Dakaski, you know, and

(29:35):
it was terrifying being that far away from home. You know,
I'd never been across the bridge before. So really no, no,
but it was a great experience.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
And one of my one of my one of my
friends works up there.

Speaker 4 (29:52):
He he was a person that I just never I
never thought would get clean ever. You know, he started
as my drug dealer, then became one of my best friends.
You know, we got lost in Florida together. You know,
we used to use a lot of drugs together and
he got clean and he works up there and he's
a recovery coach and he works in the outpatient building.
He does he works at the m AT clinic. You know,

(30:12):
he's his life is completely changed. And you know, I
always think about you know, or like my my buddy Jeff,
like if they can do it, I can do it
because we were the same type of addict, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
And not to put Josh on blast or anything, but
he does listen to the podcast. He's a big fan
of what we do. So I'm going to put him
on blast. But he you know, one time I was
taking somebody up there and he was like, man, we
gotta get Tim back, you know, And I was like yeah,
and I kind of I think I might have talked
to Jeff about it, and then there was like, oh,
he might not want to go.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
There, you know what.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
I'm like, Okay, so I think he went through ats
that time. But then to see you actually go up
there and it's a good little program, I think. You know,
they showed me around, gave me a tour. It's like
an old church that they built into a treatment center.
Like the bottom part is all dorms and the go
get one roommate, which is cool. Yeah, yeah, you know,
the bed seemed decent. You get a little night stand,

(31:06):
a little dresser to put your stuff on.

Speaker 4 (31:08):
Yeah, it was nice. It was you could tell that
it was newly renovated. And the kitchen was The kitchen
was great. The furniture was nice. You know, it was
very it was very homey.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
I liked it.

Speaker 4 (31:20):
It was different then other treatment centers that I've been
to in the way that it's more peer led. Like
we had a we had a peer leader, you know.
Towards my last month there, I was the peer leader
and like you you know, you round the guys up
and you make sure that we're doing our you know,
we're doing our morning papers and goals and like you
ground people up for dinner and lunch, and you know,

(31:41):
like and you're someone they can look up to, you know,
and go to, you know, the new guys can go
to them and stuff.

Speaker 5 (31:46):
You know.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
At the other treatment centers I've been at, it's it's
not like that.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Yeah, you know, you're just like that's been here the longest,
as opposed to like, I mean, you're supposed to lead
back sample but still Yeah, somebody's not sweeping the floor
doing their chore. It's not your it's not your worry. Yeah,
you know. And part of that I can see, and
there's a good thing. Part of it I can see
is that's not a good thing because the person who's

(32:10):
not doing their chore there.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
There's something still going on there. You know.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
That's that's a huge red flag to sweep the floor.
I'm not sweeping the floor, why, you know. And I
would when I would come to t CASKEI, I would
tell the guys like, if you walk past the trash
and you see some paper on the floor, pick it up,
put it in the trash. Can that little thing or
just walking past it? What are you going to do?
That little thing is the difference between are you going
to be doing the right things or not? Yeah, because

(32:36):
if you can take the extra second, oh lo, I
did through it. There's don't worry about it.

Speaker 3 (32:39):
Yeah, the right thing no matter what.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
You know, like you have to live here too, do
you want to be living like that? And that was
hard for me when I went to sober living the
first time, and I go downstairs and on the counter,
so I had left their taco shells out and the
cell phone. I took it and through it all outside
and there was snow. I didn't give a shit. I
just threw it all outside. And it took me a
minute to realize that that is not my problem because

(33:03):
they have a house manager. You know, that's not Corey's problem.
And that's kind of like the the other treatment centers
where they're like, hey, it's not your chore, don't worry
about it. But the problem with that is is the
treatments that I'm talking about, there's nobody going to that
guy going, dude, we.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Notice you didn't do your chorge to say like, what's
going on? Like the bad back or you just.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
Laziness. There's always something else going on.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yeah, and what's going on?

Speaker 5 (33:26):
You know?

Speaker 2 (33:26):
Oh I forgot Okay, Well let's see. That's the problem
is there's no one going to those people to talk
to them. I know that firsthand, and that's the problem.
And then all of a sudden, it builds resentments for
the other people and you're like, well, what the fuck
is this. Dude's not doing this, I'm not doing my function,
and it can build like a whole like it spreads
like a whole fire through the whole place, you know,
and it's just like, oh, maybe I shouldn't use that

(33:48):
word fire because I'm not shouting chings anything or nothing.
But SOI it's candle going here.

Speaker 5 (33:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
But but I can see the where the pier led
way would be the kind of way to go to.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
Where it's like, okay, cool, Well.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
We do have to pick these people up and if
he doesn't know how to do the throw, let me
show them.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
You know, that's also a huge thing, is you Sometimes
people just have never been showing how to clean a toilet.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
Yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (34:13):
And that's that's been a very common thing where someone
just doesn't know how to do it, you know.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
And it blows our minds sometimes. But people are raised different.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
Yeah, and they're embarrassed to ask or you know, let
you know that you know, that's not the case.

Speaker 5 (34:26):
You know.

Speaker 4 (34:27):
That was kind of the nice thing about the pure
led part of Great Lakes is that you could have
somebody at your own level that you could go to.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
I mean, you didn't have to go to staff. We
didn't have to escalate it like that, right you know.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah, because like cleaning bathrooms isn't fun for some people.
I mean, some people love it. I think maybe, I
don't know sure, but there's a way to do it.
You can put gloves on, you know, and you can
get a little system down. And in sober living, I
was like, please don't give me bathrooms with bathrooms. I
was like, shit, but the gloves ain't no thing, you know.

(35:02):
And people would leave their soap in the shower, which
was against the rules.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
I gotta throw it away. It was fun.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
It was fun.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
It was to take my arm and just all the
way down and be like, where's my soap.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
I'm sure you enjoyed that I did.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
I'm like, let's let's talk about at the house meeting,
keeps doing away my stuff and the house owner would
be like, they went into your bin that you had
in your closet and they took it out and threw
it away.

Speaker 3 (35:23):
No.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
I looked in the shower. He's like, oh.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Good, then they're doing their job. They're not supposed to
leave stuff in there. But I just bought that. Okay,
well you have to go buy another one then, because
I thought you're gonna go run to the trash to
go look for it. But it gave me something to
go haha. Gleat in the bathroom today, get all this
stuff out of here. But you got to look at
it in a different wacon. I could have been like,
are you doing this? I could have moved them on

(35:46):
and then just under my breath bitch about people aren't
supposed to shooting shower. Yeah, nope, it's my job. I'm
doing it, and I'm mnna have fun. I'll put the
gloves on, I'm gonna get behind the toilet. I'm gonna
clean it like I'm gonna clean my house, you know.
And that's what I think people don't understand is you're not.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Oh, I'm just cleaning note for the people.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
No, No, you're setting a standard for yourself, you know. And
if you walk past trash in your house and you're
good with it, okay. You know, sometimes, especially having a baby,
I'll walk past someone I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna get
that on the way back because I got thrown diaper
away in a minute, you know. But a lot of
times we'll just pick it up and take care of it.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
You know.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Like but if some people U said, don't really know
how to do stuff like that, and it blows my mind.

Speaker 4 (36:34):
Yeah, And see that's what I love about being at
Unity versus like the you know, I love ats, you know,
and the tea houses.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
They serve their purpose in my life, you know.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
But I think something bad's going on. I heard the
word but.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
No, no, no, no, obviously, But being at.

Speaker 4 (36:47):
Unity, it's just a different you know, it's a different atmosphere.
It's a different.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
There's not a different level. When you say, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:58):
I think that that's I think that's fair to say
because you know, we you know, when we interview people,
you know, the guys, it's Unity is also very pure led.
You know, there is a we have a house manager,
you know, we just you know, someone to go to
or someone to like be like, hey, the kitchen's not
being cleaned, like we should all do it. We don't
have a chort list, you know, we all maintain the
house together. We all respect each.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
Other, you know, in our boundaries, and it's very it's
a different level.

Speaker 4 (37:24):
Just like you said, you know, we like to get
people around six months to a year clean to come
to come to Unity. And the guys we interview the guys,
we go through the applications, we pick who comes and goes.
You know, it's and that's another thing that I've done
different is I didn't go to an ATS house. I
went to Unity. And I feel like that's that's another

(37:46):
huge shift in my recovery.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
Because you knew how to skate the system and get
away with this and get away with that, you know.
And and that's what I think. ATS was like, Yeah,
I can't come back, you know, because you knew where
the extra spoons were at, youknew where the ice cream,
the good ice cream was was like, you knew the
kitchen in the back, like it was just another home for.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
You, exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:04):
And you know, last year I I tried to get
into Unity, and I did. I did the interview of
both the houses and I got accepted, and I was
honest with them that I had relapsed a few weeks
prior and just counted it as a slip, you know
what I mean. ATS gave me a second chance for
like the fifth time, you know, and they really valued

(38:27):
that I was honest about.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
That and they let me in.

Speaker 4 (38:29):
And then I knew that Unity was going to be
my last chance for recovery housing in Traverse City. And
I knew at that point that I wasn't done getting high.
So I got accepted. I did the drug test, did
the walk through, and then I turned it down and said,
you know, I guess I'm not going to come here.
Sorry that I wasted your time or whatever, But because

(38:50):
I knew in my heart that I wasn't done getting high,
and it was true. Two weeks ater I got high,
you know what I mean. Then I was gone for
six months. So I was really I was happy that
I listened to intuition, you know, and didn't you know,
squander that opportunity. Because now this year I got accepted
and it's working out really.

Speaker 3 (39:08):
Great for me. I even had my own room.

Speaker 4 (39:09):
Nice dem no roommate nice And that never happens in
a tause No.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
So one time I was in the tea house and
I didn't have a room at Like I moved into
the house, I had a roommate and then he moved
out the next day, and then I got drunk in
the room. Yeah, but I wasn't there for the right reasons,
you know, Like that's the whole different ballgame when you're
not doing it for the right reasons. But like you said,
you kind of you knew the heart of hearts. Nah,
you weren't done yet. Yeah, and I was just there

(39:37):
because they're like, oh scran rap as I'll be, you know,
close to this person who's giving me money, and I'll
do it because this is what they want. And then
when the roommate left, I'm like, well, I guess I
can get drunk up in here. I got my little
tablet and the bathroom's right there. I even brought up
like jugs. I think they were like milk jugs that
would pee in so that I wouldn't have to have

(39:57):
to keep going back to the bad So I would
like take three of them there with me, dump them
in the thing and use it and then sneak.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Them back into the room. Stupid.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
But I got found out and kicked out, yep, because
that's what happens. And I wasn't there for our reasons.
It wasn't it wasn't where I was supposed to be,
and I wasn't done yet, you know, I still needed
more pain so to figure out. But I'm glad that
you're doing good man, and I'm glad that you're here
today for the holiday party. And I was just thinking
the last night or this morning, I was like, because

(40:27):
I saw you yesterday for the first time.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
In forever and work on Tuesday.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
I know it's Danny Sunday Tuesdays, so I know. But
I was here and I saw you, and then I
started thinking about, like, man, I haven't done a podcast,
like a sit down one on want and you said
to me, you know, I've been on your podcast.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
When I asked.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Terry Ray, who's a local radio host here, what she
likes most about hot dogs?

Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yeah, had you being a stunt boy?

Speaker 4 (40:53):
Yep, that was that was nerve wrecking because you were
in my ear telling me what to say.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
That was. Yep, that's the best.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah, sending someone out when we're out doing live stuff
on location, that's that's the best.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
Man.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
And yeah, so you have that on again. But I
never had to sit down one on one with you,
and I thought, man, I gotta get tim on. And
then I see you today and I'm like, there's a
meeting going on. I can see he doesn't really want
to interrupt it, and pulled you in here and did
the podcast.

Speaker 4 (41:21):
So yeah, I'm glad you did, because you know, every time,
like I said, every time I listened to the podcast,
I always.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
Think like what it would be like to be, you know,
the person on there.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
I ruined it for you and you're like, it's nothing.
No stupid fucking fireplace going going. I got this green
red lights going Christmas spirit.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
My hands are sweatying, you know, my stomach is.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
Like, but it's okay.

Speaker 3 (41:47):
I enjoyed it.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
Oh oh all right, Well we'll have to have you
on again. And I don't want to get your year. Yeah,
you can talk about it, and like some people are like,
oh babe, podcast dude. I'm like, all right, get your year,
and they're like sometimes they tell them six months. But
April twentieth, yeah, four twenty man, Yeah, April twentieth, will
have you on and we'll do a little year celebration

(42:11):
or something.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
All right, I'll give you your coin, Okay, a cool coin.

Speaker 3 (42:15):
Sounds good.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
It's a plan.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
So tune in April twentieth as Tim returns to the
two seventeen recovery podcasts.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
And maybe we'll have those other guys on too. Yeah.
Sometimes it makes it more interesting. You never know what
Justin's gonna say.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
You never know, no, but but yeah, thanks for coming on, man,
and check back and listen to the episode where Tim
asked Herry Ray about her hot dog preferences and there's
tons of episodes on the app and.

Speaker 1 (42:44):
Of course at two seventeen recovery dot com.

Speaker 5 (42:46):
Thanks for listening to the two seventeen Recovery podcast. Listen
to over nine hundred episodes on the two seventeen recovery
app that's free in your app store or online at
two seventeen recovery dot com. Be