March 20, 2025 • 36 mins
Career strategist Tina Cella pulls back the curtain on what really works in today's challenging job market. From her success at Sixth Sense (growing the company from 150 to 1300 people) to founding Unicorn Career Compass, Tina brings invaluable insights on standing out and landing opportunities when competition is fierce.
The traditional job hunt is broken. Sending applications into the void and hoping for a response simply doesn't cut it anymore. Tina reveals why treating your job search like a strategic sales process with multiple touchpoints is the game-changer most candidates miss. "Multi-threading" your approach by connecting with various people at target companies demonstrates exactly the skills employers crave.
Beyond tactical advice, Tina addresses deeper challenges like ageism ("overqualified" is her least favorite word) and the struggle to pivot careers. She shares practical wisdom on leveraging AI tools, optimizing your LinkedIn presence, and maintaining a positive mindset when rejection feels overwhelming.
Perhaps most powerfully, Tina reminds us that finding your authentic voice is the ultimate career superpower. "Own your story, own your value, own your voice. Your voice is your power," she emphasizes. Whether you're currently job-hunting or simply want to strengthen your professional position, this conversation offers actionable strategies for confidently navigating today's market.
Are you ready to stop feeling rejected and start standing out? Listen now to discover how to become the unicorn candidate companies can't ignore.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mary Killelea (00:01):
Hi there, my name is Mary Kiloalea.
Welcome to the To Be Bolderpodcast providing career
insights for the next generationof women in business and tech.
To Be Bolder was created out ofmy love for technology and
marketing, my desire to bringtogether like-minded women and
my hope to be a great role modeland source of inspiration for
my two girls and other youngwomen like you, encouraging you
(00:22):
guys to show up and to be bolderand to know that anything you
guys dream of it's totallypossible.
So sit back, relax and enjoythe conversation.
Hi there, today on the To BeBolder podcast, we are diving
into the world of job huntingwith Tina Chella, a career
strategist, recruiter andresults-driven talent expert who
(00:43):
helps people and companies grow.
As the second US talent hire atSixth Sense, she played a key
role in building a high-impacthiring culture, and now, at the
Mural Group, she partners withhigh-growth companies to embed
top recruiting talent thatdrives real results.
Through Unicorn Career Compass,she also coaches go-to-market
professionals and recent grads,helping them navigate career
(01:06):
transitions with clarity andconfidence.
Focused on both people andperformance, tina blends
strategy, connection andexecution to help individuals
and teams thrive.
Tina, it's great having youhere.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
It is my absolute pleasure.
Okay, so we're in a crazy worldwith so many layoffs and you
(01:26):
must be busier than ever, butI'd love to start this
conversation by having you givekind of an overview of your
career journey and how you gotto where you are today.
Would you start there?
Tina Cella (01:38):
Absolutely so.
My main claim to recruitingfame, if you will is I was
fortunate enough to fall into acompany in 2019 called Sixth
Sense.
I was the second US recruiter.
Prior to that, I'd been instaffing for years, but Sixth
Sense is where I really justfell in love with the culture,
the people had my first exposureto that high growth.
Along with Kyle Urbettino, whowas the head of talent at the
(02:00):
time.
We grew the company from around150 to 1300 people, along with
a 60 person talent team, so wehad a lot of help.
It was a blast.
I was able to go to President'sClub with the team.
You know.
We went to Cabo.
Then we all got COVID, but youknow that was kind of hard, but
really just get to dive in andsee, see where these
(02:21):
relationships went long term.
Towards the end of my four-yeartenure at Sixth Sense, all of
my hiring managers were actuallypeople I had hired myself,
which was a crazy coolexperience.
I was eventually promoted tooversee customer success
recruiting, did that for about ayear, had a team of five under
me Loved.
My favorite thing in the worldis passing on something that
(02:43):
I've done and then seeingsomebody I managed to do it
better.
So that was an incredibleopportunity.
And then, of course, the techbubble started to burst a little
bit.
The talent team of 60, therewere layoffs.
Ultimately, I was one of a fewremaining people and they asked
me if I wanted to move intosales, mostly just because I
drank the champagne straightfrom the water hose every
morning at 6 o'clock.
(03:04):
Now we know we don't reallytalk too much about family and
companies, but at the time itstood for all these things like
fun, accountability, mindfulness, and the reason I was so good
is because I drank thatchampagne straight from the
water hose.
I believed in it and I offeredpeople an amazing opportunity to
accelerate their career as Idid mine.
When that came to an end, Itook a break.
(03:27):
Actually, I went to Bali, didthe unicorn training, the yoga
teacher training, which is ahuge part of my philosophy in
life overall and kind ofdefinitely has a huge impact on
how I career consult as well.
And then people started reachingout to me asking for help,
mostly first within customersuccess.
I had had the opportunity tobuild that interview flow at
(03:49):
Sixth Sense, so they figured Iknew what the questions were
going to be and how to get themto the process.
So at first I was like sure Ican help.
And at first I was honestlylike, do I even have any idea
what I'm doing?
I was an internal recruiter.
Then I realized, oh my God, Ihave so much value to offer.
As I started to help peoplenavigate this process, I formed
a company called Unicorn CareerCompass and I've developed a
(04:11):
process around how to literallyget a job in it and not lose
your mind.
Hopefully, and it's all aboutyou know.
I think we all know in thisworld you have to get referred
in right, like I call that yourinternal advocate.
The issue is that most peoplewhen they do that nowadays are
not giving that internaladvocate the actual collateral
to get them through the process.
(04:31):
They just slam a resume theirway and they're like send it to
the right person and they kindof go away right and like that's
not going to work Things inthis market you have to be very
intentional and very strategic.
So even once you have thatinternal advocate right, you
need to treat the job searchlike it is a sales cycle.
You need to multi-thread thatdarn thing right.
And what does that mean?
Coming from you know,overseeing customer success.
(04:53):
What that means basically ismake multiple contacts at
various levels throughout thecompany, and it doesn't like.
Sometimes people are likethey're in the interview process
for a CS role, a customersuccess role, right, and they're
hesitant to reach out to the VPof success, of the customer
success.
However, I can't tell you thenumber of times when I was at
(05:13):
Sixth Sense I was interviewingpeople and we had so many people
and somebody would go to theextra mile to do that, to go to
the leader and be like, hey, I'min the process, I'm really
fascinated by what I'm seeing,hope to speak to you soon, not
necessarily even expecting aresponse, but doing something to
make them stand out.
And especially when you'retalking about go-to-market roles
, right, like sales, customersuccess, marketing that is the
skillset of the actual job too.
So if you're not demonstratingthat in the interview process in
(05:37):
this market, you're notdemonstrating that you're the
unicorn and you're not going tobe able to land the job, that's
just, it's not fair.
We should be able to put a downapplication and expect a
responsive or qualified.
That is the world we shouldlive in.
That is just not the reality,right?
So we have to play this gameand it is possible, and I've
found a lot of success.
Now I'm also partnering with myformer boss, kylo Retino.
(05:59):
He has formed a company with agentleman by the name of Joe
Walsh who is one of theprincipal recruiters at Uber,
and it's called the Mural Group,and so now I'm working directly
with startups again to placepeople at these companies.
One example is Grok.
They recently raised around$650 million, competing with
NVIDIA, and we just embedded abunch of contract recruiters
(06:22):
there.
We actually just had someconverted and are continuing to
service them, basically Offeringflexible recruiting help to
meet startups where they are inthe reality.
So it's both sides of it.
I love helping the candidatesnavigate it, but I also love
helping the hiring teams createa process and actually do it
correctly, because there's a lotof analysis, paralysis going on
(06:43):
in the hiring process.
Right Hiring teams think theycan get perfection and
misunderstand what a unicorn ina job is.
They think it means perfect onpaper, down to the tiniest
little detail, and we all knowfrom our dating lives right,
like perfect on paper does notequate perfect in the actual
relationship, and so I think alot of hiring teams need this
guidance that the mural group isoffering to create a process,
(07:05):
put people through it and make adecision.
You know that's what we got todo.
So, yeah, I just said a lot andthat was a long introduction.
Mary Killelea (07:12):
I love it.
I love your energy.
Believe me, it's infectious andso obviously.
Unicorn is your company's name.
Tell me how you came up withthat, were you sitting in the
yoga studio and you put an idea,come through.
How did you come about that?
Tina Cella (07:30):
So I had coined myself the Unicorn Hunter.
At Sixth Sense, I made a namefor myself.
I wasn't about going I mean, wewent through applications but I
would go out and find the bestperson from our competitor and
pull that person from thecompetitor, so so that it came
from that.
And then, once I decided toform my own business, I was like
I want to integrate unicorn insome capacity.
(07:51):
And then I was like, hmm, so Ibasically I took a poll on
LinkedIn.
I had four different names Iuse, like chat, gpt, like what
else, what's kind of like youknow, I want to help people find
the career that matters to them.
Their journey and compass came.
So unicorn, career, compass,you know it's, it's my.
My goal is to help everyonefind the unicorn within them,
(08:11):
and that takes work from themtoo.
And that's another piece of it.
Right, like I can't do all ofit, which is one thing I've
learned as I've taken on moreand more clients is that you
have to set expectations right,like this is your responsibility
.
I'll do this for you.
Mary Killelea (08:30):
It's a partnership.
Basically, is what I'verealized?
Oh, absolutely, so tell mewhile we're here about your
services that you offerindividuals and companies, cause
I think it's great that youaddress both, obviously with
your previous experience.
Tina Cella (08:38):
Yeah, so through Unicorn I offer services all the
way, just from the resume,linkedin redo, so that's just
kind of reframing your storyright.
So that's like a lot of peoplestart with that and then I do
full cycle as well, where thatincludes interview prep, thank
you, notes, negotiation,basically help through the
entire process, and for thatmostly I have some payment up
(08:59):
front because I need to pay formy tools and stuff like that.
But I know I can get like, ifwe do this together, I know it
can work.
So I defer a lot of the paymenttill after they get the job.
Because the last thing I thinkwe're also in a situation where,
like there are way too manypeople getting taken advantage
of in a crazy job.
Like that's the last thing Iever want to.
I give away a lot for free,probably too much, sometimes
(09:22):
just because I care, you know,and like a lot of my clients,
almost all my clients have comein through referrals people I
hired in the past, sisters andbrothers and all of that, and so
and it's also just at thebeginning, at the end of the day
, I'm always going to be do theright thing first is kind of my
motto throughout life.
So take care of people andthey'll take care of you, and it
comes back to you.
Mary Killelea (09:40):
That's awesome.
So how do you work withcompanies?
You, that's awesome.
So how do you?
Tina Cella (09:42):
work with companies, so companies.
So that's how I basically Iadjust and you'll see my
announcement later this week.
It's actually really goodtiming.
So I'm officially joining theMural Group now.
So that is with Joe Walsh andKyle Rotino.
Joe Walsh was one of theprincipal recruiters at Uber and
then he moved on and was headof talent at a company called
Beho.
Kyle was head of talent atSixth Sense.
He hired me back in the dayright at a company called Veho.
(10:03):
Kyle was head of talent atSixth Sense.
He hired me back in the dayright.
So that's how I kind of gotconnected there.
And we're working with startupslike Grok.
We just placed a bunch ofrecruiters there.
Then we also have companieslike Figure Markets and
Cryptocurrency.
So all different areas.
I'm working on a reallyinteresting KOL relationship
manager role for a company rightnow where they want somebody
(10:24):
basically like deeply embeddedin the cryptocurrency space with
a large like that has beenmanaging influencers within that
space for years, which is avery interesting search.
I'll tell you.
Mary Killelea (10:35):
Sounds like a unicorn you're looking for.
Tina Cella (10:37):
Absolutely, and like they're like he's open to all
over the world, which is veryinteresting.
I just need them online twohours a day at the same time as
me, right?
I'm like all over the world,which is very interesting.
I just need them online twohours a day at the same time as
me, right?
I'm like all right, we can dothis.
So that's really fun, justgetting exposure to all the
different.
You know we're working with ahealth tech company.
That's really core.
One of my real passions ismental health tech, right.
So I'm actually working tobusiness development with more
(10:59):
of those companies, because Ipersonally would just love to
help those companies build likeheadway, mind, body better up.
There's just so many.
I think it's such an importantissue that they're addressing
that I'm hoping that the muralgroup can help companies in that
direction, in addition to allelse that we're doing.
Mary Killelea (11:15):
I love you.
You're blending your passioninto your day to day.
What do you see being the topissue or problems?
I guess, at various stages ofthe food chain you know from
your career to you know peopleworried about ageism.
Tina Cella (11:29):
I get where companies are coming from.
When they're like this personis overqualified to some extent.
However, I that word is aburning like in my brain right
now.
I'm so annoyed with that wordin life right now, because what
does that even mean?
Right, if somebody is excitedand willing to do the job and
has the skillset, like why, howare, why are you the one to say
(11:49):
that they're overqualified forthat?
Like that to me.
So I think that's somethingthat a lot of people cause.
Basically, people don't want topay those salaries, either of
those more experienced people.
So they're like hey, I can getthe skillset much, much cheaper.
So, basically, just give mepeople with two to five years of
experience.
Like, I hear this all the timeon searches and I'm just like
guys, like that is literallybias, right.
(12:10):
So I think that's one thingthose people are experiencing.
I think younger people justentering the job market are
putting in applications and like, oh my God, what in God's name
is wrong with life?
Like what is happening rightnow, like you know.
So I think that's a huge issue.
Like, and then they go to theirparents and their parents are
like go check Craigslist andthey're like what?
Like, so it's they don't knowhow to you.
(12:33):
You have to teach them how tonetwork Like that was the only
way Right, and that is somethingthat I don't think a lot of
college career centers areteaching.
They're stuck in this oldmindset of how the job search
works and they're giving thatadvice and that's not getting
these kids where they need to go.
Mary Killelea (12:52):
What I find with because I'm older.
I have people in my peer groupwho have worked at careers
successful and are, as you mightsay, overqualified, but they're
also willing to take less pay,pivoting into a new direction
that maybe you know.
They went from tech sales intowanting to do something more
(13:14):
with philanthropy Yep, yep.
And yet they don't get a chancebecause they look like they
would be too demanding.
Tina Cella (13:23):
We're in what I call a plug and play market.
That's why pivots are so hardright now.
And it's funny because Iactually just helped a girl make
a pivot and from a personaldevelopment she'd been in
personal development for aboutseven years and we pivoted all
of her experience into anexecutive assistant and she
actually I introduced her toMaggie actually at the time and
(13:43):
she's now at Falcon X, love andlife, you know.
So she did do that, but we hadto reframe her LinkedIn.
We reframed her resume todemonstrate that she had done
the job.
So I think if you want thatthose pivots take work and they
take more time and you're goingto have to lean into personal
connections there and peoplethat really understand your work
ethic and your experience andthat are willing to take a
(14:04):
little bit more of a chance onyou.
Mary Killelea (14:06):
How do you approach identifying or
educating a person?
Because you get so close toyourself and what you do and
what you're good at that youlose track of how it could be
applied to something else, andso you feel stuck.
Tina Cella (14:21):
I start with a conversation on clarity.
You can go to your values.
There's so many.
I have actually a whole coursethat I'm putting together on how
to find career clarity rightand like get unstuck, basically
Because I think that is a hugeproblem.
You know that people feel likethey can't make these changes
when in actuality, it's mindsetthat is blocking them and not
(14:44):
the reality that, yes, the jobmarket is difficult and crazy
and hard.
However, you can overcome it.
It's all about to likestructuring it like the job
search is a job.
So how are you doing that?
And like what are you countingas your wins?
Because I'm going to tell youyou're going to get the job once
.
You know.
So if you're waiting for winsto get that darn job, you're
(15:07):
going to be a very sad,depressed person and sad,
depressed people are not goingto interview.
Well, you know, I'm just likeit's, it's all about, like I do
these.
You know some sounds kind ofsilly, but like happiness tricks
in the morning.
You know like this is thehappiest day of my life.
Or you know like hey, like youknow, jump up and like get those
, get that.
You know endorphins going likelet your brain work for you.
(15:29):
I've learned that through yogatoo, and I integrate a lot of
like psychology actually intohow I help my clients coaching
right.
Like I refuse, you do not prepuntil the last minute of an
interview.
You make sure that 30 minutesbefore you free your damn brain,
right, you get all that prep inright, but then you give
yourself that that moment right,because, like our brains need
(15:53):
to decompress, to to getcreative again, right.
And so I think sometimes peoplelike one of the struggles, I
think, is people they spend somuch time getting the
opportunities and then not haveto prepare for them, or they're
really good once they get theopportunity but they don't know.
So it's like they can't andit's like you have to get all of
it in this job market, like youhave to be able to close every
(16:14):
single step of the way and havesomeone closing for you, that
internal advocate within, in allhonesty someone closing for you
that internal advocate within,in all honesty, Right?
Mary Killelea (16:25):
So let's take a minute to have you define the
job market two years ago totoday and where you see it going
in two to three years.
Tina Cella (16:32):
I mean two years ago .
That was about when therecruiting like everyone was
hiring recruiters, like therewas a real freaking tomorrow,
like, it was insane, like theamount of money that we paid to
hire sources and recruiters atSixth Sense during that period
was crazy, right, um, so thatwas the market.
Higher, higher, higher, grow,grow, grow.
Now it's like where's the money?
Show me the money.
(16:52):
How are we being efficient?
Like, and so it's now.
It's like every dollar needs tobe accounted for.
Um, and so it's just a lottighter, right, like you need to
sell your value, you need tomake yourself memorable every
single step of the way and youneed to brand yourself.
Like I think everyone needs apersonal brand and that's kind
of where the job market's going.
(17:12):
That's where I see it.
In two years, it's already.
You're already starting to seeit, and that's what I do with my
clients as well.
But even more, you know, likemost, now every, every job
application has, like do youhave a website?
Mary Killelea (17:24):
And like that could be a thing, right, yeah,
and cause I'm a firm believer ofhaving a personal brand and
that's what I focus on withcustomers or clients.
It's because it is so true.
I mean I to me that's that'sthe future, that's how you come
across on and off stage and it'sfun.
Tina Cella (17:46):
Yes, and that's what I get with my client.
I'm like, well guys, we'regoing to make this fun.
Like this does not have to betorture.
Like who told us that the jobsearch has to be torture.
Mary Killelea (17:56):
How much do you use AI in job search?
Oh, constantly.
Okay tell me more.
Tina Cella (18:03):
Okay, so I am one of those people that, like I geek
out on the tools, like I justlove going and I'm not saying
I'm good at all of them, but Iwill go in there and explore,
like there's one of my recentfavorites is there's this
PowerPoint AI tool called GammaAI, which I'm using for, like,
all the social media andeverything like that.
I've used every differentresume tool out there and then I
(18:25):
ended up using some of whatthey say, then using my own
brain to edit it down, thengoing in and having AI run
through it again make it crisp,more precise, more clean.
I've like trained my chat GPT.
His name is Chad.
We have a very close andpersonal relationship and so he
actually like speaks in my toneand things like that.
(18:45):
I use it for research, like whenI'm recruiting for a company.
For example, I'm helping out.
Addition Wealth is anothercompany we're working with and
they have a bunch of engineeringroles I'm working on.
I'm helping fill a projectright.
So I'll go to chat GPT and belike this is the company.
Can you please tell me you know20 top fintech companies in
this area we might want to pullengineers from?
And then I'll say, but pleasedon't have that, please have
this and please don't have that,and I'll just.
(19:06):
I have conversations with AIall day like to be quite honest.
Mary Killelea (19:25):
I always say please and thank you, because we
don't know where we're goingwith this.
Tina Cella (19:27):
You know like one day they take over the world.
They're of the people that youhelp.
What percentage do you seeembracing AI themselves?
I?
I demand it in a large part inmy clients because you're going
to get left behind.
It's using it with authenticityand personality and if you
don't, it's just like I.
I understand why some peopleare a little weary, weary of it,
and my dad's't.
It's just like I.
I understand why some peopleare a little weary, weary of it,
and my dad's the old schoollike lawyer.
Who's like don't have Alexa,they're all listening to you and
(19:48):
I'm like dad at this point,like we're all screwed.
It just doesn't matter, right?
Mary Killelea (19:52):
Right.
Tina Cella (19:52):
Absolutely, it's all out there.
Um, so I, I, I encourage it,you know, I say always use it
with a brain Like please do notjust punch something in there,
take it out and then just punch,like that is not a good look,
it's people can tell right.
But to not use it to checkthings is ridiculous too.
Like you know, like how doesanyone have a horrible typo
(20:14):
anymore?
If you cause you could shouldbe able to check all that.
So I use it to check everything.
I use it to help me be morecreative with posts.
I use it to check everything.
I use it to help me be morecreative with posts.
I use it to brainstorm.
I mean I use perplexity, chat,gpt, enhanced um, gamma, like I
could go on and on and, and Ienjoy it, you know.
And now they're all like slackhas an AI thing that's starting
to get built in notion I, we usenotion at Miro group and like
(20:35):
they're integrating.
So it's kind of cool to see, um, how it's all.
I'm kind of a sucker for anytool that I see, honestly.
And then I'm like, oh crap, Ijust have like 25 trials that I
forgot to cancel.
Mary Killelea (20:48):
So there's so many tools out there and I spend
a majority of my time onLinkedIn because I'm fascinated
about how few people actuallyoptimize their LinkedIn or how
they don't.
Real estate.
It's unbelievable Real estate,real estate, literally.
And how they're?
They just lurk and they don'tjoin conversations or they don't
have a thought, leadershipthought for themselves and post
(21:11):
it because of fear of judgment.
Those are all things peoplehave to overcome.
So I want to talk aboutLinkedIn, but I also want to
talk about some other sites, jobseeking sites that I think
people I guess.
I guess my question is areother people using Indeed, other
you know, Handshake and someother things?
Tina Cella (21:32):
Handshake is a cool one.
Handshake I actually touchedwhen I was at Sixth Sense, like
for college students.
I think that is still a reallygood one.
Like internships, things likethat students I think that is
still a really good one.
Like internships, things likethat.
Indeed.
So I used a lot of like Indeed,monster, career, you know all
of those back in the day when Iwas in staffing.
I did not.
I have not really used Indeedat all since I started within
(21:52):
tech.
To be honest, the stuff isthere.
I just don't see it as the mostuser-friendly.
I just haven't gotten a lot.
I love LinkedIn.
I live on LinkedIn, but then Ialso go to venture capitalist
job boards.
That's one thing I offer myclients.
I also apply to like insanenumber of newsletters.
Mary Killelea (22:10):
I'm guilty of that too.
Tina Cella (22:11):
Yeah, everything under you know cause I.
I love information, right, andI, but it's data is, it's so
interesting.
So I'm working on these tworoles for this other company
called arc data Centers, and theguy says all the time data is
the new oil, right, like data isthe new oil Right, and so it's.
But if you don't know how touse it and it's not used in the
right way, it's overwhelmingRight, like even in my, when I'm
(22:43):
working with a client on a fullcycle.
We'll do the best we can to usedata analysis right, because
I'm like we're going to, at theend of every week, go back and
look, hey, what's worked, whathasn't, but we're not using a
tool yet.
I'd love to get there at somepoint, right, we're just kind of
doing it, but you have to right, and what's working is the
networking.
That's what works.
Mary Killelea (22:58):
Well, that's the thing.
I think too many people justignore it once they get a job,
and then, when they're caughtoff guard with a layoff or they
hate their job and now they needto do it, they've just like
been so detached from it.
Tina Cella (23:09):
Yeah, yeah, and they don't know how to, they don't
and they don't.
It's a lot, too, to like go, butit's actually like that's.
One of my favorite things,though, is because what it
serves when you write thisresume, when you go through and
write and you metricize thingsand all that it serves as a
reminder of everything thatyou've accomplished, and it
actually is a part of findingthat clarity is going back and
looking at all the freakingamazing shit that you've done
(23:30):
that you forgot about, right,and reminding yourself of it and
pulling upon those things.
You know, and it's, it's, it'sactually like it's an exciting
opportunity to to reframe yourlife and to try new things.
Like that's what happened to meat Sixth Sense, you know, like
it was the perfect time for thatto end for me, because my life
(23:50):
went in the coolest directions,you know, and now, like
personally even like I have aboyfriend and I'm settled, I'm
near my family, and I'd beenlike stuck in California and
everyone had moved, you know, soit's like it all happens.
It does all happen for a reason,if you let it right.
It's.
The struggle is hard.
It's hard, though, and that'swhy I have a job.
It's because it's hard, you knowwhere you've been and we feel
(24:11):
rejected.
And that's the thing too.
I tell people.
All the time people like theystart to feel rejected.
They put applications inrejection, rejection, rejection.
And then I asked them okay, sowhat are you doing?
And they're like just applying.
And I'm like that's it.
And I'm like, okay, I'm like,well, you haven't even entered
the arena of the game, youhaven't been rejected, like no
one's seen that damn thing.
I'm sorry, but that's just thereality of the matter.
So stop sitting in a cornerfeeling rejected when you
(24:33):
haven't entered the game.
Mary Killelea (24:34):
I'm like um, give me three tips that someone can
help their improve their chancesof being seen on linkedin um
leaning into.
Tina Cella (24:49):
Like personal, you mean being seen or getting a
referral and getting a jobgetting a referral and getting a
job okay, leaning into personalconnections that know you
really well.
So I talked to one girl theother day and she was just
telling me about her job searchand she was saying she applied
for six months nothing, nothing,nothing, nothing.
And this girl's good, you know,like a good candidate, account
(25:10):
manager, strong background, allof that.
And then she decided, okay,screw this, I'm not stop
applying, I'm just going to leaninto where I have really really
close personal connections andshe had a job in a month, you
know.
So it's like it's that is thebig thing is leaning into those
people who really know who youare and understand your work
ethic and can truly, trulyadvocate for you.
Also, stop targeting jobs,start targeting companies.
(25:34):
Start targeting companies thatare growing and that are going
to have multiple roles in thatarena Right and then come up
with, like with my clients, thatI do full cycle, we're applying
to jobs, but we also have atarget list of 20, like top
companies that we would like towork at.
How do we form that target list?
Well, we look at where we knowpeople, we look at companies
that are growing and then lookat what you're excited about,
(25:58):
because stop applying to jobsyou don't want guys, because
that comes through, like itcomes through in the interview,
right, if you're passionateabout something and you can add
it's all about alignment in thestock market, and if you can
create alignment, in addition tothe role, with the mission of
the company, with the leadershipteam, with all of those things,
those are that's how to gethired.
Now you know, and thank younotes, follow up.
It's marketing yourself.
(26:19):
You know it's a sales cycle,like I said and like it doesn't
make it easy, but it also isdoable and that's the thing I
want people to know.
It is doable, it is stilldoable.
It takes more strategy andintention.
Now, sorry to interrupt.
Mary Killelea (26:33):
No, no, no.
I think that's great for peopleto hear that.
You know we talk a lot aboutit's deflating or it's
exhausting, but it's stilldoable.
And you know, working withcoaches like you definitely is
what a lot of people need toinvest, even though I think they
fear that they don't have moneyor that the job search is going
to go too long, you know.
(26:54):
But now let's talk about thesame thing with LinkedIn, but
being visible.
Tina Cella (27:00):
Now let's talk about the same thing with LinkedIn,
but being visible.
Okay, being visible, I thinkcontent, like having valuable
content to share and brandingyourself around topics, I think
is a big thing.
To be fair, though, I didn't dothat.
I kind of just.
I have now just kind oforganically, but like when I,
after Sixth Sense and I, youknow, really focused on my
(27:22):
LinkedIn, I just kind of used itas a support system and wanted
to support others and that wasmy focus, right.
So I think that's one way.
But like, if you want to likehave like certain topics you
discuss, right, like hiringchallenges, some people you can
even be like post about hiringchallenges one day, something
funny one day, something likecome up with a little content.
It doesn't have to take morethan 10 minutes of your morning,
(27:43):
like it's not as time consuming, and one of the things I give
my clients when they enter myprogram is a whole packet that
has suggestions five minuteactivities on LinkedIn, 10
minute activities on LinkedIn.
You know quick little ways tomove the needle.
Start commenting on the targetcompanies that you're going
after, look at the leadershipthere and start commenting on
their posts and engaging withthem and having conversations
(28:04):
with them.
Try to bring thoseconversations outside of the
actual posts and privates.
Like that's how you startreally getting people to notice,
like having meaningfulconversations and making people
laugh.
Like some of my best posts area joke.
Yeah, you know, like it'ssomebody said I made a post
(28:25):
about this the other daySomebody wants, cause I have a
very, you know, peppypersonality, right, and so I
I've been known to talk a lot,and somebody once said to me you
know, you should only talk ifyou have something important to
say.
And I'm like well, who, who,just who the hell decides what
that is.
Though, Like what's important,right, like what's important to
you may not be important to me.
(28:47):
The reverse Someone might thinkwhat I have to say is important
, someone might not, but if Iimpact one person positively,
that's enough for me, Right.
But I think in general, it'slike engaging.
Engaging.
Mary Killelea (29:00):
See, and I think that's the differentiator, that
that helps your brand attractpeople that want to work with
you.
Your willingness to take astance and make that, to me, is
the new way to be successful.
Tina Cella (29:18):
Yeah, well, I applaud you on that.
Mary Killelea (29:20):
So what does to be bolder mean to you?
Tina Cella (29:23):
Um.
I think it means not askingpermission to show up as you are
, um, and to follow you know itsounds cliche follow your heart,
like.
Like, do what you think isright, do what makes you happy.
Don't be afraid, um, to reachout, like so many people are
afraid to reach out to people incertain ways, like they're so
(29:43):
important, like what, how do Imatter to them?
Or whatever.
Own your own, your story, ownyour value, own your voice.
Your voice is your power.
And like we have to know that.
And like taking a littlepersonal step like I you know I
had health issues in my twentiesand things like that, right and
like it took me a second tofind my voice, right, it took me
(30:04):
a second to find that.
And now that I have, I feel somuch more empowered to help
others because I I feel like Iknow, I, who, I know who I am
now, and like, but I had to findmy voice.
So it's like just beingcomfortable and doing what it
takes to find your voice too.
Sometimes that means, you know,trying new things, like going
outside the box, you know.
Mary Killelea (30:24):
I'm such an advocate of that because, like
it, I took longer to find myvoice, but I found my voice
through creating and and anddoing this podcast and you know,
and having these you know,wonderful, successful women come
in and just be as real andauthentic and vulnerable was so
(30:46):
enlightening to me and thenfeeling like my voice mattered.
It's been a full circlebeautiful thing, and so I like
to help other people who youknow, no matter what age you are
, find their voice.
So I I I've so aligned to that.
Tina Cella (31:05):
And girl like, I think a lot about it with, um,
so my, my health struggles I hadan eating disorder when I was
in my twenties completelyrecovered and um, I think a lot
about how much, how important itis for us to teach our girls to
find their voice and tounderstand that it's.
You know, even in today'ssociety, girls, it's too much
about what you look like, right,like you, you're allowed to
(31:25):
talk, you're allowed to be loud.
Sometimes you're like, you know, it's like when a guy I
remember being at Sixth Senseand you know like guys would be
throwing footballs back andforth, yelling, no one ever said
shut up or calm down to them.
You know and like, but and eventhough it was a good culture,
you would still see like if agirl was, it was just like a
little, it was a different vibeand like, why?
Why is that?
Yeah, you know, I like to askthose questions and I think we
(31:48):
need to be asking thosequestions and exploring those
things together.
I'm having conversations likeand that's why I love I can see
it in you the authentic, thetrue desire to connect and
understands people.
Yeah, that's what makes methrive in life.
Like, that's what gets me outof bed every day.
Like you know, life's too shortand I've experienced that and I
, you know, I experienced whatit was like to wonder maybe I
(32:10):
wouldn't get to live as full ofa life as I'd, like you know,
and now I'm just so grateful forevery opportunity I have to
talk to someone like you or tohelp somebody and just like
learn about people, um, and howwe can help each other be
successful, because, like that'sI mean I could like seriously,
like that's what makes me happyis being successful with other
(32:30):
strong, good human beings, likethat's why I love maggie so much
, for example well, this is sucha beautiful place to to end, um
, and I, and I think I guess inclosing, I'll ask for you to
give words of encouragement tosomeone who's listening, who's
been looking for a job andfeeling a little deflated.
Mary Killelea (32:51):
What words of encouragement do you have before
we go?
Tina Cella (32:55):
Yeah, take a moment with yourself and think about
your past successes, think aboutyour values, think about what
really matters to you and justtake a step back for a second.
It's okay to do that, like it'sokay to take a step back, to
take a step forward and thencome up with it can be, it,
(33:16):
doesn't?
You don't need to hire a coachnecessarily.
Come up with a plan yourself.
Use ChatGPT.
Hey, chatgpt, give me a jobsearch plan for this week.
You know, like, these are mytarget companies.
This is how much I want to doSet goals and create wins for
yourself in the week.
Because it's not you, that's thebiggest thing.
I would say.
It is not you, it is them forsure, like, totally them.
But this is the game we're inand just stop.
(33:38):
You stop, don't feel rejected,because you haven't been
rejected.
It's just a new arena, a newgame and you can learn how to
play it and be successful in it.
But it takes time and that's OK.
That's the biggest thing I wantpeople to know.
It's OK for it to take time andI know it's stressful.
I get it Money, all of that, Iunderstand, understand that.
But at the same time, like, doyou want a job that you're going
(34:00):
to be in the same situation twomonths, or do you want to find
a job you love and a job that'sgoing to uplift you both
personally and professionally,and sometimes that takes a
little more time.
So don't just don't give up.
Look in the mirror and remindyourself every day of who you
are and keep going.
Keep doing it and if you needhelp, ask for it.
(34:21):
There are resources out theretons, including like me.
I'm always happy.
Any introduction, you know.
Reach out to me.
I'm always happy to makeintroductions to anyone I see.
If I can, I'm happy tofacilitate that.
So, yeah, just start havingconversations, you know, and
you'd be surprised at how many.
The job search is veryisolating and you'd be surprised
at how many people are in yourexact same shoes and guess what?
(34:43):
We're in your shoes and nowhave jobs they love.
Mary Killelea (34:47):
It has been such a pleasure having you on the
show, great to meet you and yougave some wonderful, insightful
advice, so thank you for beingon the show.
Tina Cella (34:56):
Thank you for having me.
I really truly appreciate it.
It was such a joy to meet you.
Thank you for having me.
I really truly appreciate it.
Mary Killelea (35:02):
It was such a joy to meet you.
Thanks for listening to theepisode today.
It was really fun chatting withmy guest.
If you liked our show, pleaselike it and share it with your
friends.
If you want to learn what we'reup to, please go check out our
website at 2BBouldercom.
That's the number two little bbouldercom.
(35:23):
That's the number two little bbouldercom.
Hi there, my name is Mary Kiloalea.
Welcome to the To Be Bolderpodcast providing career
insights for the next generationof women in business and tech.
To Be Bolder was created out ofmy love for technology and
marketing, my desire to bringtogether like-minded women and
my hope to be a great role modeland source of inspiration for
my two girls and other youngwomen like you, encouraging you
(00:22):
guys to show up and to be bolderand to know that anything you
guys dream of it's totallypossible.
So sit back, relax and enjoythe conversation.
Hi there, today on the To BeBolder podcast, we are diving
into the world of job huntingwith Tina Chella, a career
strategist, recruiter andresults-driven talent expert who
(00:43):
helps people and companies grow.
As the second US talent hire atSixth Sense, she played a key
role in building a high-impacthiring culture, and now, at the
Mural Group, she partners withhigh-growth companies to embed
top recruiting talent thatdrives real results.
Through Unicorn Career Compass,she also coaches go-to-market
professionals and recent grads,helping them navigate career
(01:06):
transitions with clarity andconfidence.
Focused on both people andperformance, tina blends
strategy, connection andexecution to help individuals
and teams thrive.
Tina, it's great having youhere.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
It is my absolute pleasure.
Okay, so we're in a crazy worldwith so many layoffs and you
(01:26):
must be busier than ever, butI'd love to start this
conversation by having you givekind of an overview of your
career journey and how you gotto where you are today.
Would you start there?
Tina Cella (01:38):
Absolutely so.
My main claim to recruitingfame, if you will is I was
fortunate enough to fall into acompany in 2019 called Sixth
Sense.
I was the second US recruiter.
Prior to that, I'd been instaffing for years, but Sixth
Sense is where I really justfell in love with the culture,
the people had my first exposureto that high growth.
Along with Kyle Urbettino, whowas the head of talent at the
(02:00):
time.
We grew the company from around150 to 1300 people, along with
a 60 person talent team, so wehad a lot of help.
It was a blast.
I was able to go to President'sClub with the team.
You know.
We went to Cabo.
Then we all got COVID, but youknow that was kind of hard, but
really just get to dive in andsee, see where these
(02:21):
relationships went long term.
Towards the end of my four-yeartenure at Sixth Sense, all of
my hiring managers were actuallypeople I had hired myself,
which was a crazy coolexperience.
I was eventually promoted tooversee customer success
recruiting, did that for about ayear, had a team of five under
me Loved.
My favorite thing in the worldis passing on something that
(02:43):
I've done and then seeingsomebody I managed to do it
better.
So that was an incredibleopportunity.
And then, of course, the techbubble started to burst a little
bit.
The talent team of 60, therewere layoffs.
Ultimately, I was one of a fewremaining people and they asked
me if I wanted to move intosales, mostly just because I
drank the champagne straightfrom the water hose every
morning at 6 o'clock.
(03:04):
Now we know we don't reallytalk too much about family and
companies, but at the time itstood for all these things like
fun, accountability, mindfulness, and the reason I was so good
is because I drank thatchampagne straight from the
water hose.
I believed in it and I offeredpeople an amazing opportunity to
accelerate their career as Idid mine.
When that came to an end, Itook a break.
(03:27):
Actually, I went to Bali, didthe unicorn training, the yoga
teacher training, which is ahuge part of my philosophy in
life overall and kind ofdefinitely has a huge impact on
how I career consult as well.
And then people started reachingout to me asking for help,
mostly first within customersuccess.
I had had the opportunity tobuild that interview flow at
(03:49):
Sixth Sense, so they figured Iknew what the questions were
going to be and how to get themto the process.
So at first I was like sure Ican help.
And at first I was honestlylike, do I even have any idea
what I'm doing?
I was an internal recruiter.
Then I realized, oh my God, Ihave so much value to offer.
As I started to help peoplenavigate this process, I formed
a company called Unicorn CareerCompass and I've developed a
(04:11):
process around how to literallyget a job in it and not lose
your mind.
Hopefully, and it's all aboutyou know.
I think we all know in thisworld you have to get referred
in right, like I call that yourinternal advocate.
The issue is that most peoplewhen they do that nowadays are
not giving that internaladvocate the actual collateral
to get them through the process.
(04:31):
They just slam a resume theirway and they're like send it to
the right person and they kindof go away right and like that's
not going to work Things inthis market you have to be very
intentional and very strategic.
So even once you have thatinternal advocate right, you
need to treat the job searchlike it is a sales cycle.
You need to multi-thread thatdarn thing right.
And what does that mean?
Coming from you know,overseeing customer success.
(04:53):
What that means basically ismake multiple contacts at
various levels throughout thecompany, and it doesn't like.
Sometimes people are likethey're in the interview process
for a CS role, a customersuccess role, right, and they're
hesitant to reach out to the VPof success, of the customer
success.
However, I can't tell you thenumber of times when I was at
(05:13):
Sixth Sense I was interviewingpeople and we had so many people
and somebody would go to theextra mile to do that, to go to
the leader and be like, hey, I'min the process, I'm really
fascinated by what I'm seeing,hope to speak to you soon, not
necessarily even expecting aresponse, but doing something to
make them stand out.
And especially when you'retalking about go-to-market roles
, right, like sales, customersuccess, marketing that is the
skillset of the actual job too.
So if you're not demonstratingthat in the interview process in
(05:37):
this market, you're notdemonstrating that you're the
unicorn and you're not going tobe able to land the job, that's
just, it's not fair.
We should be able to put a downapplication and expect a
responsive or qualified.
That is the world we shouldlive in.
That is just not the reality,right?
So we have to play this gameand it is possible, and I've
found a lot of success.
Now I'm also partnering with myformer boss, kylo Retino.
(05:59):
He has formed a company with agentleman by the name of Joe
Walsh who is one of theprincipal recruiters at Uber,
and it's called the Mural Group,and so now I'm working directly
with startups again to placepeople at these companies.
One example is Grok.
They recently raised around$650 million, competing with
NVIDIA, and we just embedded abunch of contract recruiters
(06:22):
there.
We actually just had someconverted and are continuing to
service them, basically Offeringflexible recruiting help to
meet startups where they are inthe reality.
So it's both sides of it.
I love helping the candidatesnavigate it, but I also love
helping the hiring teams createa process and actually do it
correctly, because there's a lotof analysis, paralysis going on
(06:43):
in the hiring process.
Right Hiring teams think theycan get perfection and
misunderstand what a unicorn ina job is.
They think it means perfect onpaper, down to the tiniest
little detail, and we all knowfrom our dating lives right,
like perfect on paper does notequate perfect in the actual
relationship, and so I think alot of hiring teams need this
guidance that the mural group isoffering to create a process,
(07:05):
put people through it and make adecision.
You know that's what we got todo.
So, yeah, I just said a lot andthat was a long introduction.
Mary Killelea (07:12):
I love it.
I love your energy.
Believe me, it's infectious andso obviously.
Unicorn is your company's name.
Tell me how you came up withthat, were you sitting in the
yoga studio and you put an idea,come through.
How did you come about that?
Tina Cella (07:30):
So I had coined myself the Unicorn Hunter.
At Sixth Sense, I made a namefor myself.
I wasn't about going I mean, wewent through applications but I
would go out and find the bestperson from our competitor and
pull that person from thecompetitor, so so that it came
from that.
And then, once I decided toform my own business, I was like
I want to integrate unicorn insome capacity.
(07:51):
And then I was like, hmm, so Ibasically I took a poll on
LinkedIn.
I had four different names Iuse, like chat, gpt, like what
else, what's kind of like youknow, I want to help people find
the career that matters to them.
Their journey and compass came.
So unicorn, career, compass,you know it's, it's my.
My goal is to help everyonefind the unicorn within them,
(08:11):
and that takes work from themtoo.
And that's another piece of it.
Right, like I can't do all ofit, which is one thing I've
learned as I've taken on moreand more clients is that you
have to set expectations right,like this is your responsibility
.
I'll do this for you.
Mary Killelea (08:30):
It's a partnership.
Basically, is what I'verealized?
Oh, absolutely, so tell mewhile we're here about your
services that you offerindividuals and companies, cause
I think it's great that youaddress both, obviously with
your previous experience.
Tina Cella (08:38):
Yeah, so through Unicorn I offer services all the
way, just from the resume,linkedin redo, so that's just
kind of reframing your storyright.
So that's like a lot of peoplestart with that and then I do
full cycle as well, where thatincludes interview prep, thank
you, notes, negotiation,basically help through the
entire process, and for thatmostly I have some payment up
(08:59):
front because I need to pay formy tools and stuff like that.
But I know I can get like, ifwe do this together, I know it
can work.
So I defer a lot of the paymenttill after they get the job.
Because the last thing I thinkwe're also in a situation where,
like there are way too manypeople getting taken advantage
of in a crazy job.
Like that's the last thing Iever want to.
I give away a lot for free,probably too much, sometimes
(09:22):
just because I care, you know,and like a lot of my clients,
almost all my clients have comein through referrals people I
hired in the past, sisters andbrothers and all of that, and so
and it's also just at thebeginning, at the end of the day
, I'm always going to be do theright thing first is kind of my
motto throughout life.
So take care of people andthey'll take care of you, and it
comes back to you.
Mary Killelea (09:40):
That's awesome.
So how do you work withcompanies?
You, that's awesome.
So how do you?
Tina Cella (09:42):
work with companies, so companies.
So that's how I basically Iadjust and you'll see my
announcement later this week.
It's actually really goodtiming.
So I'm officially joining theMural Group now.
So that is with Joe Walsh andKyle Rotino.
Joe Walsh was one of theprincipal recruiters at Uber and
then he moved on and was headof talent at a company called
Beho.
Kyle was head of talent atSixth Sense.
He hired me back in the dayright at a company called Veho.
(10:03):
Kyle was head of talent atSixth Sense.
He hired me back in the dayright.
So that's how I kind of gotconnected there.
And we're working with startupslike Grok.
We just placed a bunch ofrecruiters there.
Then we also have companieslike Figure Markets and
Cryptocurrency.
So all different areas.
I'm working on a reallyinteresting KOL relationship
manager role for a company rightnow where they want somebody
(10:24):
basically like deeply embeddedin the cryptocurrency space with
a large like that has beenmanaging influencers within that
space for years, which is avery interesting search.
I'll tell you.
Mary Killelea (10:35):
Sounds like a unicorn you're looking for.
Tina Cella (10:37):
Absolutely, and like they're like he's open to all
over the world, which is veryinteresting.
I just need them online twohours a day at the same time as
me, right?
I'm like all over the world,which is very interesting.
I just need them online twohours a day at the same time as
me, right?
I'm like all right, we can dothis.
So that's really fun, justgetting exposure to all the
different.
You know we're working with ahealth tech company.
That's really core.
One of my real passions ismental health tech, right.
So I'm actually working tobusiness development with more
(10:59):
of those companies, because Ipersonally would just love to
help those companies build likeheadway, mind, body better up.
There's just so many.
I think it's such an importantissue that they're addressing
that I'm hoping that the muralgroup can help companies in that
direction, in addition to allelse that we're doing.
Mary Killelea (11:15):
I love you.
You're blending your passioninto your day to day.
What do you see being the topissue or problems?
I guess, at various stages ofthe food chain you know from
your career to you know peopleworried about ageism.
Tina Cella (11:29):
I get where companies are coming from.
When they're like this personis overqualified to some extent.
However, I that word is aburning like in my brain right
now.
I'm so annoyed with that wordin life right now, because what
does that even mean?
Right, if somebody is excitedand willing to do the job and
has the skillset, like why, howare, why are you the one to say
(11:49):
that they're overqualified forthat?
Like that to me.
So I think that's somethingthat a lot of people cause.
Basically, people don't want topay those salaries, either of
those more experienced people.
So they're like hey, I can getthe skillset much, much cheaper.
So, basically, just give mepeople with two to five years of
experience.
Like, I hear this all the timeon searches and I'm just like
guys, like that is literallybias, right.
(12:10):
So I think that's one thingthose people are experiencing.
I think younger people justentering the job market are
putting in applications and like, oh my God, what in God's name
is wrong with life?
Like what is happening rightnow, like you know.
So I think that's a huge issue.
Like, and then they go to theirparents and their parents are
like go check Craigslist andthey're like what?
Like, so it's they don't knowhow to you.
(12:33):
You have to teach them how tonetwork Like that was the only
way Right, and that is somethingthat I don't think a lot of
college career centers areteaching.
They're stuck in this oldmindset of how the job search
works and they're giving thatadvice and that's not getting
these kids where they need to go.
Mary Killelea (12:52):
What I find with because I'm older.
I have people in my peer groupwho have worked at careers
successful and are, as you mightsay, overqualified, but they're
also willing to take less pay,pivoting into a new direction
that maybe you know.
They went from tech sales intowanting to do something more
(13:14):
with philanthropy Yep, yep.
And yet they don't get a chancebecause they look like they
would be too demanding.
Tina Cella (13:23):
We're in what I call a plug and play market.
That's why pivots are so hardright now.
And it's funny because Iactually just helped a girl make
a pivot and from a personaldevelopment she'd been in
personal development for aboutseven years and we pivoted all
of her experience into anexecutive assistant and she
actually I introduced her toMaggie actually at the time and
(13:43):
she's now at Falcon X, love andlife, you know.
So she did do that, but we hadto reframe her LinkedIn.
We reframed her resume todemonstrate that she had done
the job.
So I think if you want thatthose pivots take work and they
take more time and you're goingto have to lean into personal
connections there and peoplethat really understand your work
ethic and your experience andthat are willing to take a
(14:04):
little bit more of a chance onyou.
Mary Killelea (14:06):
How do you approach identifying or
educating a person?
Because you get so close toyourself and what you do and
what you're good at that youlose track of how it could be
applied to something else, andso you feel stuck.
Tina Cella (14:21):
I start with a conversation on clarity.
You can go to your values.
There's so many.
I have actually a whole coursethat I'm putting together on how
to find career clarity rightand like get unstuck, basically
Because I think that is a hugeproblem.
You know that people feel likethey can't make these changes
when in actuality, it's mindsetthat is blocking them and not
(14:44):
the reality that, yes, the jobmarket is difficult and crazy
and hard.
However, you can overcome it.
It's all about to likestructuring it like the job
search is a job.
So how are you doing that?
And like what are you countingas your wins?
Because I'm going to tell youyou're going to get the job once
.
You know.
So if you're waiting for winsto get that darn job, you're
(15:07):
going to be a very sad,depressed person and sad,
depressed people are not goingto interview.
Well, you know, I'm just likeit's, it's all about, like I do
these.
You know some sounds kind ofsilly, but like happiness tricks
in the morning.
You know like this is thehappiest day of my life.
Or you know like hey, like youknow, jump up and like get those
, get that.
You know endorphins going likelet your brain work for you.
(15:29):
I've learned that through yogatoo, and I integrate a lot of
like psychology actually intohow I help my clients coaching
right.
Like I refuse, you do not prepuntil the last minute of an
interview.
You make sure that 30 minutesbefore you free your damn brain,
right, you get all that prep inright, but then you give
yourself that that moment right,because, like our brains need
(15:53):
to decompress, to to getcreative again, right.
And so I think sometimes peoplelike one of the struggles, I
think, is people they spend somuch time getting the
opportunities and then not haveto prepare for them, or they're
really good once they get theopportunity but they don't know.
So it's like they can't andit's like you have to get all of
it in this job market, like youhave to be able to close every
(16:14):
single step of the way and havesomeone closing for you, that
internal advocate within, in allhonesty someone closing for you
that internal advocate within,in all honesty, Right?
Mary Killelea (16:25):
So let's take a minute to have you define the
job market two years ago totoday and where you see it going
in two to three years.
Tina Cella (16:32):
I mean two years ago .
That was about when therecruiting like everyone was
hiring recruiters, like therewas a real freaking tomorrow,
like, it was insane, like theamount of money that we paid to
hire sources and recruiters atSixth Sense during that period
was crazy, right, um, so thatwas the market.
Higher, higher, higher, grow,grow, grow.
Now it's like where's the money?
Show me the money.
(16:52):
How are we being efficient?
Like, and so it's now.
It's like every dollar needs tobe accounted for.
Um, and so it's just a lottighter, right, like you need to
sell your value, you need tomake yourself memorable every
single step of the way and youneed to brand yourself.
Like I think everyone needs apersonal brand and that's kind
of where the job market's going.
(17:12):
That's where I see it.
In two years, it's already.
You're already starting to seeit, and that's what I do with my
clients as well.
But even more, you know, likemost, now every, every job
application has, like do youhave a website?
Mary Killelea (17:24):
And like that could be a thing, right, yeah,
and cause I'm a firm believer ofhaving a personal brand and
that's what I focus on withcustomers or clients.
It's because it is so true.
I mean I to me that's that'sthe future, that's how you come
across on and off stage and it'sfun.
Tina Cella (17:46):
Yes, and that's what I get with my client.
I'm like, well guys, we'regoing to make this fun.
Like this does not have to betorture.
Like who told us that the jobsearch has to be torture.
Mary Killelea (17:56):
How much do you use AI in job search?
Oh, constantly.
Okay tell me more.
Tina Cella (18:03):
Okay, so I am one of those people that, like I geek
out on the tools, like I justlove going and I'm not saying
I'm good at all of them, but Iwill go in there and explore,
like there's one of my recentfavorites is there's this
PowerPoint AI tool called GammaAI, which I'm using for, like,
all the social media andeverything like that.
I've used every differentresume tool out there and then I
(18:25):
ended up using some of whatthey say, then using my own
brain to edit it down, thengoing in and having AI run
through it again make it crisp,more precise, more clean.
I've like trained my chat GPT.
His name is Chad.
We have a very close andpersonal relationship and so he
actually like speaks in my toneand things like that.
(18:45):
I use it for research, like whenI'm recruiting for a company.
For example, I'm helping out.
Addition Wealth is anothercompany we're working with and
they have a bunch of engineeringroles I'm working on.
I'm helping fill a projectright.
So I'll go to chat GPT and belike this is the company.
Can you please tell me you know20 top fintech companies in
this area we might want to pullengineers from?
And then I'll say, but pleasedon't have that, please have
this and please don't have that,and I'll just.
(19:06):
I have conversations with AIall day like to be quite honest.
Mary Killelea (19:25):
I always say please and thank you, because we
don't know where we're goingwith this.
Tina Cella (19:27):
You know like one day they take over the world.
They're of the people that youhelp.
What percentage do you seeembracing AI themselves?
I?
I demand it in a large part inmy clients because you're going
to get left behind.
It's using it with authenticityand personality and if you
don't, it's just like I.
I understand why some peopleare a little weary, weary of it,
and my dad's't.
It's just like I.
I understand why some peopleare a little weary, weary of it,
and my dad's the old schoollike lawyer.
Who's like don't have Alexa,they're all listening to you and
(19:48):
I'm like dad at this point,like we're all screwed.
It just doesn't matter, right?
Mary Killelea (19:52):
Right.
Tina Cella (19:52):
Absolutely, it's all out there.
Um, so I, I, I encourage it,you know, I say always use it
with a brain Like please do notjust punch something in there,
take it out and then just punch,like that is not a good look,
it's people can tell right.
But to not use it to checkthings is ridiculous too.
Like you know, like how doesanyone have a horrible typo
(20:14):
anymore?
If you cause you could shouldbe able to check all that.
So I use it to check everything.
I use it to help me be morecreative with posts.
I use it to check everything.
I use it to help me be morecreative with posts.
I use it to brainstorm.
I mean I use perplexity, chat,gpt, enhanced um, gamma, like I
could go on and on and, and Ienjoy it, you know.
And now they're all like slackhas an AI thing that's starting
to get built in notion I, we usenotion at Miro group and like
(20:35):
they're integrating.
So it's kind of cool to see, um, how it's all.
I'm kind of a sucker for anytool that I see, honestly.
And then I'm like, oh crap, Ijust have like 25 trials that I
forgot to cancel.
Mary Killelea (20:48):
So there's so many tools out there and I spend
a majority of my time onLinkedIn because I'm fascinated
about how few people actuallyoptimize their LinkedIn or how
they don't.
Real estate.
It's unbelievable Real estate,real estate, literally.
And how they're?
They just lurk and they don'tjoin conversations or they don't
have a thought, leadershipthought for themselves and post
(21:11):
it because of fear of judgment.
Those are all things peoplehave to overcome.
So I want to talk aboutLinkedIn, but I also want to
talk about some other sites, jobseeking sites that I think
people I guess.
I guess my question is areother people using Indeed, other
you know, Handshake and someother things?
Tina Cella (21:32):
Handshake is a cool one.
Handshake I actually touchedwhen I was at Sixth Sense, like
for college students.
I think that is still a reallygood one.
Like internships, things likethat students I think that is
still a really good one.
Like internships, things likethat.
Indeed.
So I used a lot of like Indeed,monster, career, you know all
of those back in the day when Iwas in staffing.
I did not.
I have not really used Indeedat all since I started within
(21:52):
tech.
To be honest, the stuff isthere.
I just don't see it as the mostuser-friendly.
I just haven't gotten a lot.
I love LinkedIn.
I live on LinkedIn, but then Ialso go to venture capitalist
job boards.
That's one thing I offer myclients.
I also apply to like insanenumber of newsletters.
Mary Killelea (22:10):
I'm guilty of that too.
Tina Cella (22:11):
Yeah, everything under you know cause I.
I love information, right, andI, but it's data is, it's so
interesting.
So I'm working on these tworoles for this other company
called arc data Centers, and theguy says all the time data is
the new oil, right, like data isthe new oil Right, and so it's.
But if you don't know how touse it and it's not used in the
right way, it's overwhelmingRight, like even in my, when I'm
(22:43):
working with a client on a fullcycle.
We'll do the best we can to usedata analysis right, because
I'm like we're going to, at theend of every week, go back and
look, hey, what's worked, whathasn't, but we're not using a
tool yet.
I'd love to get there at somepoint, right, we're just kind of
doing it, but you have to right, and what's working is the
networking.
That's what works.
Mary Killelea (22:58):
Well, that's the thing.
I think too many people justignore it once they get a job,
and then, when they're caughtoff guard with a layoff or they
hate their job and now they needto do it, they've just like
been so detached from it.
Tina Cella (23:09):
Yeah, yeah, and they don't know how to, they don't
and they don't.
It's a lot, too, to like go, butit's actually like that's.
One of my favorite things,though, is because what it
serves when you write thisresume, when you go through and
write and you metricize thingsand all that it serves as a
reminder of everything thatyou've accomplished, and it
actually is a part of findingthat clarity is going back and
looking at all the freakingamazing shit that you've done
(23:30):
that you forgot about, right,and reminding yourself of it and
pulling upon those things.
You know, and it's, it's, it'sactually like it's an exciting
opportunity to to reframe yourlife and to try new things.
Like that's what happened to meat Sixth Sense, you know, like
it was the perfect time for thatto end for me, because my life
(23:50):
went in the coolest directions,you know, and now, like
personally even like I have aboyfriend and I'm settled, I'm
near my family, and I'd beenlike stuck in California and
everyone had moved, you know, soit's like it all happens.
It does all happen for a reason,if you let it right.
It's.
The struggle is hard.
It's hard, though, and that'swhy I have a job.
It's because it's hard, you knowwhere you've been and we feel
(24:11):
rejected.
And that's the thing too.
I tell people.
All the time people like theystart to feel rejected.
They put applications inrejection, rejection, rejection.
And then I asked them okay, sowhat are you doing?
And they're like just applying.
And I'm like that's it.
And I'm like, okay, I'm like,well, you haven't even entered
the arena of the game, youhaven't been rejected, like no
one's seen that damn thing.
I'm sorry, but that's just thereality of the matter.
So stop sitting in a cornerfeeling rejected when you
(24:33):
haven't entered the game.
Mary Killelea (24:34):
I'm like um, give me three tips that someone can
help their improve their chancesof being seen on linkedin um
leaning into.
Tina Cella (24:49):
Like personal, you mean being seen or getting a
referral and getting a jobgetting a referral and getting a
job okay, leaning into personalconnections that know you
really well.
So I talked to one girl theother day and she was just
telling me about her job searchand she was saying she applied
for six months nothing, nothing,nothing, nothing.
And this girl's good, you know,like a good candidate, account
(25:10):
manager, strong background, allof that.
And then she decided, okay,screw this, I'm not stop
applying, I'm just going to leaninto where I have really really
close personal connections andshe had a job in a month, you
know.
So it's like it's that is thebig thing is leaning into those
people who really know who youare and understand your work
ethic and can truly, trulyadvocate for you.
Also, stop targeting jobs,start targeting companies.
(25:34):
Start targeting companies thatare growing and that are going
to have multiple roles in thatarena Right and then come up
with, like with my clients, thatI do full cycle, we're applying
to jobs, but we also have atarget list of 20, like top
companies that we would like towork at.
How do we form that target list?
Well, we look at where we knowpeople, we look at companies
that are growing and then lookat what you're excited about,
(25:58):
because stop applying to jobsyou don't want guys, because
that comes through, like itcomes through in the interview,
right, if you're passionateabout something and you can add
it's all about alignment in thestock market, and if you can
create alignment, in addition tothe role, with the mission of
the company, with the leadershipteam, with all of those things,
those are that's how to gethired.
Now you know, and thank younotes, follow up.
It's marketing yourself.
(26:19):
You know it's a sales cycle,like I said and like it doesn't
make it easy, but it also isdoable and that's the thing I
want people to know.
It is doable, it is stilldoable.
It takes more strategy andintention.
Now, sorry to interrupt.
Mary Killelea (26:33):
No, no, no.
I think that's great for peopleto hear that.
You know we talk a lot aboutit's deflating or it's
exhausting, but it's stilldoable.
And you know, working withcoaches like you definitely is
what a lot of people need toinvest, even though I think they
fear that they don't have moneyor that the job search is going
to go too long, you know.
(26:54):
But now let's talk about thesame thing with LinkedIn, but
being visible.
Tina Cella (27:00):
Now let's talk about the same thing with LinkedIn,
but being visible.
Okay, being visible, I thinkcontent, like having valuable
content to share and brandingyourself around topics, I think
is a big thing.
To be fair, though, I didn't dothat.
I kind of just.
I have now just kind oforganically, but like when I,
after Sixth Sense and I, youknow, really focused on my
(27:22):
LinkedIn, I just kind of used itas a support system and wanted
to support others and that wasmy focus, right.
So I think that's one way.
But like, if you want to likehave like certain topics you
discuss, right, like hiringchallenges, some people you can
even be like post about hiringchallenges one day, something
funny one day, something likecome up with a little content.
It doesn't have to take morethan 10 minutes of your morning,
(27:43):
like it's not as time consuming, and one of the things I give
my clients when they enter myprogram is a whole packet that
has suggestions five minuteactivities on LinkedIn, 10
minute activities on LinkedIn.
You know quick little ways tomove the needle.
Start commenting on the targetcompanies that you're going
after, look at the leadershipthere and start commenting on
their posts and engaging withthem and having conversations
(28:04):
with them.
Try to bring thoseconversations outside of the
actual posts and privates.
Like that's how you startreally getting people to notice,
like having meaningfulconversations and making people
laugh.
Like some of my best posts area joke.
Yeah, you know, like it'ssomebody said I made a post
(28:25):
about this the other daySomebody wants, cause I have a
very, you know, peppypersonality, right, and so I
I've been known to talk a lot,and somebody once said to me you
know, you should only talk ifyou have something important to
say.
And I'm like well, who, who,just who the hell decides what
that is.
Though, Like what's important,right, like what's important to
you may not be important to me.
(28:47):
The reverse Someone might thinkwhat I have to say is important
, someone might not, but if Iimpact one person positively,
that's enough for me, Right.
But I think in general, it'slike engaging.
Engaging.
Mary Killelea (29:00):
See, and I think that's the differentiator, that
that helps your brand attractpeople that want to work with
you.
Your willingness to take astance and make that, to me, is
the new way to be successful.
Tina Cella (29:18):
Yeah, well, I applaud you on that.
Mary Killelea (29:20):
So what does to be bolder mean to you?
Tina Cella (29:23):
Um.
I think it means not askingpermission to show up as you are
, um, and to follow you know itsounds cliche follow your heart,
like.
Like, do what you think isright, do what makes you happy.
Don't be afraid, um, to reachout, like so many people are
afraid to reach out to people incertain ways, like they're so
(29:43):
important, like what, how do Imatter to them?
Or whatever.
Own your own, your story, ownyour value, own your voice.
Your voice is your power.
And like we have to know that.
And like taking a littlepersonal step like I you know I
had health issues in my twentiesand things like that, right and
like it took me a second tofind my voice, right, it took me
(30:04):
a second to find that.
And now that I have, I feel somuch more empowered to help
others because I I feel like Iknow, I, who, I know who I am
now, and like, but I had to findmy voice.
So it's like just beingcomfortable and doing what it
takes to find your voice too.
Sometimes that means, you know,trying new things, like going
outside the box, you know.
Mary Killelea (30:24):
I'm such an advocate of that because, like
it, I took longer to find myvoice, but I found my voice
through creating and and anddoing this podcast and you know,
and having these you know,wonderful, successful women come
in and just be as real andauthentic and vulnerable was so
(30:46):
enlightening to me and thenfeeling like my voice mattered.
It's been a full circlebeautiful thing, and so I like
to help other people who youknow, no matter what age you are
, find their voice.
So I I I've so aligned to that.
Tina Cella (31:05):
And girl like, I think a lot about it with, um,
so my, my health struggles I hadan eating disorder when I was
in my twenties completelyrecovered and um, I think a lot
about how much, how important itis for us to teach our girls to
find their voice and tounderstand that it's.
You know, even in today'ssociety, girls, it's too much
about what you look like, right,like you, you're allowed to
(31:25):
talk, you're allowed to be loud.
Sometimes you're like, you know, it's like when a guy I
remember being at Sixth Senseand you know like guys would be
throwing footballs back andforth, yelling, no one ever said
shut up or calm down to them.
You know and like, but and eventhough it was a good culture,
you would still see like if agirl was, it was just like a
little, it was a different vibeand like, why?
Why is that?
Yeah, you know, I like to askthose questions and I think we
(31:48):
need to be asking thosequestions and exploring those
things together.
I'm having conversations likeand that's why I love I can see
it in you the authentic, thetrue desire to connect and
understands people.
Yeah, that's what makes methrive in life.
Like, that's what gets me outof bed every day.
Like you know, life's too shortand I've experienced that and I
, you know, I experienced whatit was like to wonder maybe I
(32:10):
wouldn't get to live as full ofa life as I'd, like you know,
and now I'm just so grateful forevery opportunity I have to
talk to someone like you or tohelp somebody and just like
learn about people, um, and howwe can help each other be
successful, because, like that'sI mean I could like seriously,
like that's what makes me happyis being successful with other
(32:30):
strong, good human beings, likethat's why I love maggie so much
, for example well, this is sucha beautiful place to to end, um
, and I, and I think I guess inclosing, I'll ask for you to
give words of encouragement tosomeone who's listening, who's
been looking for a job andfeeling a little deflated.
Mary Killelea (32:51):
What words of encouragement do you have before
we go?
Tina Cella (32:55):
Yeah, take a moment with yourself and think about
your past successes, think aboutyour values, think about what
really matters to you and justtake a step back for a second.
It's okay to do that, like it'sokay to take a step back, to
take a step forward and thencome up with it can be, it,
(33:16):
doesn't?
You don't need to hire a coachnecessarily.
Come up with a plan yourself.
Use ChatGPT.
Hey, chatgpt, give me a jobsearch plan for this week.
You know, like, these are mytarget companies.
This is how much I want to doSet goals and create wins for
yourself in the week.
Because it's not you, that's thebiggest thing.
I would say.
It is not you, it is them forsure, like, totally them.
But this is the game we're inand just stop.
(33:38):
You stop, don't feel rejected,because you haven't been
rejected.
It's just a new arena, a newgame and you can learn how to
play it and be successful in it.
But it takes time and that's OK.
That's the biggest thing I wantpeople to know.
It's OK for it to take time andI know it's stressful.
I get it Money, all of that, Iunderstand, understand that.
But at the same time, like, doyou want a job that you're going
(34:00):
to be in the same situation twomonths, or do you want to find
a job you love and a job that'sgoing to uplift you both
personally and professionally,and sometimes that takes a
little more time.
So don't just don't give up.
Look in the mirror and remindyourself every day of who you
are and keep going.
Keep doing it and if you needhelp, ask for it.
(34:21):
There are resources out theretons, including like me.
I'm always happy.
Any introduction, you know.
Reach out to me.
I'm always happy to makeintroductions to anyone I see.
If I can, I'm happy tofacilitate that.
So, yeah, just start havingconversations, you know, and
you'd be surprised at how many.
The job search is veryisolating and you'd be surprised
at how many people are in yourexact same shoes and guess what?
(34:43):
We're in your shoes and nowhave jobs they love.
Mary Killelea (34:47):
It has been such a pleasure having you on the
show, great to meet you and yougave some wonderful, insightful
advice, so thank you for beingon the show.
Tina Cella (34:56):
Thank you for having me.
I really truly appreciate it.
It was such a joy to meet you.
Thank you for having me.
I really truly appreciate it.
Mary Killelea (35:02):
It was such a joy to meet you.
Thanks for listening to theepisode today.
It was really fun chatting withmy guest.
If you liked our show, pleaselike it and share it with your
friends.
If you want to learn what we'reup to, please go check out our
website at 2BBouldercom.
That's the number two little bbouldercom.
(35:23):
That's the number two little bbouldercom.
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