March 6, 2025 • 57 mins
Anger can often feel like an insurmountable force, but the truth is, understanding this powerful emotion can lead to healthier relationships and personal well-being. In this engaging episode, we sit down with guest Deanna, a certified counselor with extensive experience navigating complex emotional landscapes. Together, we dive deep into the nature of anger, exploring how perceptions shape our responses and why understanding our reactions is critical in today's emotionally charged world.
Deanna shares compelling insights from her years in practice, highlighting the rise of anger issues, particularly among younger generations as they cope with the stresses introduced during the COVID-19 pandemic. Listeners will gain valuable tools for managing their anger and recognizing the underlying emotions that often spur reactions, prompting helpful conversations and improved dynamics in relationships.
We also discuss the potential for anger to serve a constructive purpose — from advocating for justice to driving personal change. Whether you're seeking to understand your emotional responses better or looking to support someone struggling with anger, this discussion promises to inspire and enlighten. Join us for an enriching conversation that redefines how we view anger, equipping you with the knowledge to navigate emotional turbulence with confidence.
Don't forget to subscribe, share this valuable episode with others, and leave a review to let us know what you think!
Amy, Kitty & Stacey
P.S. Isn't our intro music great?! Yah, we think so too. Thank you, Ivy States for "I Got That Wow".
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
All right, ooh, look I got that.
Wow, who wants some heads upright now?
We got that.
Turn it up loud.
I know you're wondering how.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I got that.
Wow, here I go.
Here I go, coming.
I can't ever stop.
I'm a tour de force running.
Get me to the top, I don't needa.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Well, good evening friends, Hello Get me to the top
.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
I don't need a Good for you.
Good for you and we've got adeal in the works.
Oh, it will all happen then, sohopefully I'll hear something
tonight or tomorrow morning.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Good, good, good, good.
Well, welcome everybody toanother episode of Three
Cocktails In Stacey.
Amy and myself, we are backtogether again.
I've been on vacation for thelast week.
This is the first time thatI've talked to each of you since
my little Full side Boondoggle.
Yes, yeah, I almost said holaHola.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
Yes hola.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Hola.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Which is kind of the extent of my Spanish.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
But no, por favor, did you throw in the, please I?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
you know, that's that word, just that's what that
word's too long, it's justeasier to say please oh, okay,
yeah, but did you mostly relax?
Yes, all about relaxation wedid.
It was so relaxing.
We um, we ate way too much.
Uh, we were ready to come homeand you know that's the sign of
(01:51):
a good vacation when you'reyou're like all right, that
that's good, that we got somesleep, we got some sun, um,
really good food, all of thosewonderful things and ready to
get back to reality.
And it really helped that itwas 40 degrees when we landed
here, because it was.
(02:12):
So everybody that we met andthey'd say, where are you from
Minnesota?
They're like, oh, it's coldthere, right?
We would say and I had ascreenshot of it it was 17 below
zero on Tuesday when we left.
Screenshot of it, it was 17below zero on Tuesday when we
left, yeah, and it was 85 whenwe landed in Kutukana.
So, yeah, yeah, it was greatthat it warmed up yes, it was a
(02:34):
good a good week to leave yeah,yes, it was.
So came back totally feelingrelaxed and no stress and super
excited about the conversationthat we're going to have tonight
.
We have really enjoyed bringingguests on to the podcast
Collectively.
(02:55):
We have such an amazing groupof friends and friends who do
really cool shit, right?
Friends who have very coolcareers, very cool areas of
expertise, talents, all of thosethings, and we're going to dig
into a topic that we have noteven gone anywhere near on this
(03:15):
podcast, right?
Yes, so we're going to bring inour special guest.
I would love to introduce myfriend, deanna doctor.
Speaker 6 (03:28):
Welcome, deanna thank you, hi.
Ladies, nice to be with youtonight very good to have you
here.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yeah, so excited.
Deanna, you are a let me getthis right you are a licensed,
no, a certified.
You're a certified therapist,certified faith-based counselor
Yep, counselor and you work withindividuals and you work with
(03:56):
families, correct, right?
Yeah, yeah, so I've gotten toknow Deanna over the last couple
of years, um just throughonline, which is great, and I
just feel like we we became fastfriends um very, very quickly,
and so it's been fun to learnabout what you do professionally
and how you help people.
(04:17):
And, boy, I would have toimagine that what you do is well
.
You're probably very busy on aweekly basis, aren't you?
I am, and your practice haskind of just continued to grow
in need.
(04:37):
Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 6 (04:41):
So I've been counseling for 26 years and,
interestingly enough, in thattime frame have really honed in
on individuals and families.
But COVID changed the dynamic.
I feel like COVID gets blamedfor everything, but when you've
done something for 26 years andthen you're shut down and you're
(05:01):
closed down, our community, ourhealth department, considers
mental health a necessity, andso most of the practices in the
area stayed open, as our centerdid.
We stayed open and we have beenjust inundated ever since.
We rarely before that waitinglist.
(05:26):
We now have a waiting list thatruns months out.
We're seeing younger and youngerpeople.
We're seeing younger andyounger people who are dealing
with more significant stressesand hardships, and so I am busy.
But I also have job securityand that's hard to complain
(05:47):
about.
People are always going to needhelp.
People are always going to needsomebody to listen to them.
Life is hard if you don't havea community that listens.
So I'm really thankful.
I feel very blessed to do whatI do and to be able to come
alongside people and shouldersome of their heavy for them.
(06:07):
Many of them don't have anybodyelse doing that.
I feel really blessed to beable to do that.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
I think a lot of people are grateful that the
topic of mental health is talkedabout now, and it's not.
It's you know, honestly,doesn't everyone?
Shouldn't everyone in the worldhave some sort of therapy or
(06:38):
have some sort of, you know,counselor or session, or
something I think we allprobably have at different?
Speaker 4 (07:09):
times right, mm-hmm.
Stacey and Amy.
Yep, yeah, and it's nice thatit's more.
It was great to have a neutralparty, so to speak, to talk to
about things, that it wasn'tsomebody who knew everybody in
my life and didn't come in withany preconceived notions of the
(07:30):
people in my life, and you knowso it really.
It's that that professional Ithink, is huge is huge.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Yeah, agree.
So when we, um, when Deannagraciously agreed to be on the
podcast, uh, we started talkingabout you know, so what?
There are obviously so manydifferent things that we can
talk about and you counsel onmany different things, but we
(08:04):
kind of zeroed in on the topicof anger, um, and that's
something that we really havenot talked about here at all and
honestly, I don't think that Iever thought about that as a
topic that is discussed with acounselor or or with a a
therapist, but of course it is,um, so I'm super excited to talk
(08:27):
about this topic.
You know, um, we all feel theemotion and it can come over us
in at different times and indifferent ways and, um, I think
we can, we can describe thefeeling of it, that you know the
temperature raising, or youknow that heartbeat, heartbeat,
(08:47):
all of these different physicalreactions to anger.
But what is anger exactly?
How would you describe that?
Speaker 6 (08:59):
Is that a question for me?
Yes, yes, yes, and I think wedescribe it that way as a whole
(09:22):
person reaction to theirperception of a situation,
because you and I could be inthe same situation, we're
experiencing it at the same time, your perception could be
radically different, and itdoesn't evoke any anger in you,
and meanwhile I'm ready, likethat, to fly off the handle in
(09:44):
anger.
And so we try to define itreally simply as just a whole
person reaction to ourperception of the events or the
circumstances in front of us.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
So when this topic comes up for you with your
clients, is it?
I mean, I would assume thatthere may be situations where a
client will come to you andthey'll say anger is overtaking
me, and you hear people say this.
I mean, I've heard the term oh,that person has anger issues
and I hate that.
I mean that's kind of an unfairthing to say about someone.
You don't know what's going onin their life.
But how does it come up in yoursessions and what sort of
(10:41):
approach do you take on thistopic?
Speaker 6 (10:44):
We certainly hear that People come in and lots of
times they're sent to us bybosses because their anger has
created a problem in theworkplace.
Maybe they've thrown something,maybe they've got a fast, sharp
mouth that's being derogatory orunkind to fellow employees.
(11:06):
Maybe they're beinginsubordinate on a regular basis
to a boss, and so theassumption is man, they've got
an anger issue, they need help,they need to go to counseling,
and so they'll come in and ontheir intake paperwork they're
really honest, they'll say I'mcoming because I've been told I
have an anger problem or I havean anger issue.
(11:26):
It's pretty easy to see thateven in the session it presents
fairly quickly and fairly easilywhen you start to ask questions
and you start to poke and prodaround people's lives.
But the interesting thing is, Ithink all of us, if we're going
to, if we're going to gostrictly by the definition I
gave we all have anger issuesfrom time to time.
(11:48):
There's just stuff that'salways going on around us and my
perception of it is that I'mbeing harmed some way and so of
course I'm going to get angry.
So I agree with you, kitty, thephraseology is problematic just
from the vantage point of okay,if that's the term we're going
to use, even your counselor hasan anger issue.
(12:10):
So we prefer to help people seewhen they get angry and why
they get angry, so we can givethem the tools for why and when
they get angry.
Understanding it's not going tobe a constant thing, yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
I, I never really thought of anger as as the issue
.
I thought of it as, um, howbeing upset manifests itself.
You know that great distinction, because what you just said,
you know, something's botheringthem and their response, it's
(12:51):
their response, that's angry.
So to me, the anger isn't thething.
Well, I mean, that's whatcauses problems.
Their response causes problems.
But you don't just people,don't just wake up angry for no
reason.
There's something there.
Speaker 6 (13:09):
Yes, yeah, that's a great distinction, and part of
the dilemma is the only reasonthat it would cause a problem is
because they've externallyflown off the handle in some way
.
I'm using that broad sweepingterm.
They might have just yelled, butthey also might have thrown
something or broken somethingand typically we don't pay
(13:32):
attention.
Even in our own lives we don'tpay attention to the things that
are bothering us until theyevidence externally and they
create an external problem.
So yeah, I love the distinctionthat anger isn't my.
My external response in myanger isn't actually my biggest
(13:54):
problem.
What's causing me to react thatway is my biggest problem, and
we delve into that in counseling.
We try to help people.
See, listen, you're gettingangry.
You're thinking you're gettingangry because of mistreatment in
your past.
You think you're getting angrybecause you're dealing with
(14:16):
difficult situations right nowin your present.
You think you're getting angrybecause you have unmet desires
and unmet expectations.
You think you're getting angrybecause you have unmet desires
and unmet expectations, butthose are simply influencing
your emotional reaction.
They're not causing it.
That emotional response iscaused deep within all of us
(14:39):
from the belief that I'mentitled to something and in
this moment I'm not getting it.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Mm-hmm.
And so in that way, you'relikely to blame what you're.
You know, it's this person thatI'm interacting with right now.
It's their fault, Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6 (14:59):
For sure.
Well, and don't we hear thatShoot, maybe we've even said it
ourselves.
You know how I get when you andwe use that phrase as
justification so somebody hasdone something, and we're like,
oh my goodness, you know how Iget when you say that, well,
actually I have complete controlover what I say.
So if Stacy or Amy or Kittypops off with something, I don't
(15:22):
actually get to blame you thatI opened my mouth in anger and
decimated you verbally justbecause you did X, y or Z.
I have control over Deanna'sresponses.
But man, anger is one of thoseemotions that we go from zero
calm, just super chill in lifeto I can throw something in the
(15:47):
snap of a finger, my emotion canbe triggered that quickly.
I can throw something in thesnap of a finger, my emotion can
be triggered that quickly.
So I think it feels for peoplelike they're not responsible for
how they navigate their angerbecause it's such a quick
reaction from nothing's wrong toI just vented or exploded or
(16:10):
hurt something or somebody, andthat makes it hard for people
who really do struggle with thatemotion.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Yeah, fascinating.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
Yeah.
So then what do you?
You know how do you start by,you know, managing that anger
emotion.
You know what would be yourstart to fixing it, you know.
Speaker 6 (16:41):
Yeah, so typically what I do is I spend time asking
them for the themes do is Ispend time asking them for the
themes if they've noticed themesor patterns to when they do get
angry Either internally theyjust feel angry or externally
now other people can see it.
I spend a couple of sessionsjust helping them look over the
(17:05):
trajectory of their life andevaluate if they can see any
patterns or themes.
Most people can, with a littlebit of help and some questions
directed at them.
As they identify those themes.
Then we start to talk about andwhat were you desiring around
those themes?
(17:25):
What did you actually believethat you deserved or you were
entitled to?
It's the flavor of entitlementthat really promotes in me the
reaction of anger.
I actually do believe I have aright and that right is being
violated.
I think you're the reason it'sbeing violated.
(17:47):
So my anger is going to bedirected at you.
But after they can identify somepatterns and themes, then we
start to look at the desiresthat drove them in those
patterns and themes.
What did they believe theydeserved?
And that can be again.
That can be so hard for us,because it's right and
(18:10):
appropriate for people to treatus with respect.
That's appropriate.
Civilizations thrive becausewe're mature and we're mutually
respectful and we appreciate oneanother, one another.
(18:32):
So it's hard to guide somebodywho's already believing those
good, right things aboutthemselves as a human, that they
don't actually have the powerto demand a certain response
from another human and that ifthey don't get it, it's not
appropriate for them to react inanger.
That can be a very hard sellbecause they're convinced they
should be treated a certain way.
But at the end of the day, Ihave no control over how other
(18:57):
people are going to attempt totreat me.
I only have control over howlong I stay underneath the
treatment.
Does that make sense?
Am I explaining that well?
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Yeah, I mean again, it's choice If you think you
deserve to be treated some wayand you're not being treated
that way.
It's your choice whether youstay and engage or whether you
remove yourself.
A lot of us go right to theanger Right Because sometimes
(19:35):
you're not in a position toleave.
When you talk about workplaceCorrect, I mean there are times
in all of our lives when angeris actually you can see it.
You can see that you youhaven't made it up, you're not
being ultra sensitive.
Somebody is treating you poorly.
Right.
(19:57):
But it's still your choice onhow you respond.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
And very rarely do people react to anger in a
calmer, helpful way, right Likeanger feeds.
I've noticed this in myself.
Anger feeds all of the basestparts of how Deanna's ready to
fight and she's ready toannihilate you.
I mean, that's just that wellsup in all of us.
(20:25):
So if I can make the choice inthat moment, even when I'm not
being treated well, to respondout of a calmer mindset which,
again, we help our clients learnhow to do there's the potential
that that behavior, althoughthe behavior might not change,
(20:45):
there's the potential that therearen't other complicating
factors in play now, because Ihaven't fed any kind of issue
myself.
Of course that sounds reallygreat in theory, until somebody
is in front of you and they'redisrespecting you or they're
using their mouth to annihilateyou or they're getting
(21:07):
physically aggressive towardsyou, and then it's kind of like
all bets are off and now thebetter person just needs to win.
I mean, that's what rises in us.
Yeah, that's not a reallyhelpful way to solve conflict.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
The fight or flight comes into play there.
For sure, for sure, yeah, cananger actually have?
Speaker 6 (21:58):
can anger actually serve a positive purpose?
Oh, I believe so.
When you, when you look aroundat the injustice, when you look
around at the innocence in ourcultures and in other cultures
being taken advantage of andhurt, when you look around at
harmful or illegal activitiesand behaviors, activities and
behaviors, anger is an energythat can literally be leveraged
to fight for the cause ofjustice, to fight for the cause
of wrongs being made right.
(22:18):
I think there's a reallybeautiful place for the energy
of anger to be leveraged so thatpeople are helped, harm is
stopped, injustice is correctedand righted.
Yeah, I think we have to workat that.
I think we have to practiceutilizing the energy of our
(22:44):
anger in a really positive,constructive way.
But goodness, so many of thegood, right things that have
been done throughout historyhave been done because somebody
was just ticked off at how wrongsomething was and it created
this.
Huh, I can do something aboutthis.
(23:04):
That's a beautiful energy.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
It reminds me of the phrase well-behaved women seldom
make history.
It takes that fire, as you'vetalked about it, that energy of
anger being fueled, and alsojust back to the basic idea of
anger and everyday situations.
(23:29):
To do something positive withit does require the ability to
kind of step out of yourself andrecognize what's going on and
have the wherewithal to say youknow, I got to think this
through a little bit that itcan't just be that instant gut
reaction.
Right.
Speaker 6 (23:49):
Well, here's the interesting thing.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
Oh sorry, Go ahead I was just going to say that when
you think about raising kids,you know that's what we're
trying to do.
Use your words.
What?
How are you feeling?
All of this?
Our generation?
I don't think my mother everasked me how I was feeling about
something.
I was told to knock it off orgo to my room.
You know those were myalternatives, so I don't think a
(24:15):
lot of us have of our age.
I'm just going to make asweeping generalization, as we
like to do.
We didn't practice that, wedidn't practice the maybe I
shouldn't say this Right, andwe're hoping that the younger
generations have had a littlebit more of that.
(24:35):
But to be able to step back andrealize that you know, right
idea, wrong response, right.
Speaker 6 (24:45):
And again, in all of our emotions, anger has a
tendency to have this negativeconnotation, but in all of our
emotions, pausing before I reactor respond would be just a good
life principle, but I do haveto practice that.
I have to practice going.
(25:06):
Whoa, Deanna, take a breath.
What would be the best way tonavigate this right now?
Probably what you're thinkingof saying wouldn't be the best
initially.
And so, yeah, I think the pauseis really, really, really
beneficial as a tool and weencourage people, particularly
(25:28):
people who do struggle withmoving from zero to 60 like that
in their anger.
We encourage them hey, justpractice a pause in your own
head, count and take some timeto just count up to five or 10
and then open your mouth torespond.
(25:51):
You might still be really angry, but that initial five to 10
seconds of what was going to flyout of your mouth probably
isn't going to after you'veslowed your roll a bit, before
you open your mouth.
And again, I'm trying tominimize, as I help my clients,
I'm trying to minimize as I helpmy clients, I'm trying to
minimize them creating even moredestruction, so to speak, in
(26:13):
the relationships in their lifebecause of emotion that they
just didn't utilize well.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Yeah, because it can be tremendously damaging to
relationships.
Speaker 6 (26:27):
Oh my goodness, tremendously damaging to
relationships.
Oh my goodness, the lack oftrust.
That's the first and foremostbreakdown for people who are
consistently, regularly angry inrelationships.
The other side of thatrelationship gets to a point
where they don't trust you.
You're no longer safe, there'sno longer security in front of
(26:48):
you, and so they start to pullback, they withhold information,
they emotionally close down.
Well, there's not going to bereal intimate friendship or
relationship with that.
There's a huge lack of respect.
The number of times I've beenout and about in public and I've
watched somebody just pop offin their anger, my first thought
(27:11):
going oh buddy, we could helpyou with that.
Yeah, really sad.
Right now You're functioningthe way we do as kids.
Kids have to learn how toregulate.
They don't know how to regulate.
That's part of our job asparents is we're training them
how to regulate their emotions.
(27:31):
It always saddens me when I seesomebody as a grown adult who's
functioning like they're still achild in their emotional
responses to life, and so Ithink if you're regularly
interacting with somebody likethat, it leads to a lack of
respect for you.
You don't actually respect thatperson at the same level that
you would if they had control oftheir emotions.
(27:53):
Plus, I think it becomes asafety issue for a lot of people
.
Anger is an easy emotion toabuse, and I think for children
in particular.
If parents are regularly angry,they're regularly yelling,
they're regularly yanking theirkids around yeah, now it becomes
a lack of safety.
(28:14):
There's nothing beneficial thatcomes from that.
It really just destroys therelationships between people.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Yeah, so it's.
It is, it's another, it's atopic with.
So, just like abuse, you knowthere's conversation around
stopping the cycle.
Anger is a topic as well, thatyou would seek to stop the cycle
because, if you can, for surefamilies, uh, when they're
(28:48):
raising young kids, kids to takethat out of the family dynamic.
Not that you're never going tocreate a situation where people
aren't going to get angry aboutsomething, but it all comes down
to how you deal with it, right?
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (29:05):
I think particularly for children deal with it.
Yeah, I think particularly forchildren.
If we can remember andunderstand, as parents, that the
amygdala is the part of thebrain that processes all of our
emotion.
Well, the minute I experienceemotion, my amygdala starts to
just fire off adrenaline andnoradrenaline.
(29:26):
Well, if I'm a kid, I alreadykind of struggle with restraint,
but now I've got all thatadrenaline pulsing through me,
I'm going to do and say allsorts of things, and so I think
it's helpful for parents torealize wait a minute.
You can teach your child inthose initial stages.
You can teach them to pause.
(29:47):
You can teach them to choosebetween option A or option B.
Give them their options, Showthem what their options are.
Here's the anger option.
This is what it'll look like.
Here's the restrained or calmoption.
Which one do you want to use?
Of course the kid's alwaysgoing to want to choose the
(30:08):
anger option because he doesn'thave to work at that.
That just flies out of him.
But if we can teach them whatcomes from that, they might be
more prone to early on learnmore restraint in their anger,
and that's a win as they age.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Yeah, yeah, it takes discipline.
So taking that pause, that's areally good practice and
everybody can benefit from that.
And I also think too, as we getolder, as we mature, some of
that it's just a little biteasier for us to do.
For sure, I would agree withthat.
(30:48):
What are some other techniquesthat you employ on this topic?
Speaker 6 (30:59):
Well, I'm going to go back.
I believe it was you, amy, whowas making the statement that
you know.
We encourage people to usetheir words.
We encourage kids to use theirwords.
We encourage people to usetheir words.
We encourage kids to use theirwords.
So, after we teach clients topause, we encourage them to
think through hey, what did youbelieve you were entitled to,
what did you feel like youdeserved in that moment?
Because now is your chance tocalmly verbalize that Again.
(31:23):
I should not be demanding fromyou anything, because I don't
have that kind of control, butlots of times people want to
give me what I desire in therelationship.
They just need to know what itis.
And so if I've paused and I'veslowed my role, so to speak, a
(31:43):
little bit, now I can choose mywords to just say hey, amy, in
this moment I didn't feel heard.
I felt like you were justpushing aside my suggestion for
the rest of the day of work, andit gives Amy an opportunity to
go.
Oh man, that wasn't myintention, deanna.
(32:06):
I thought I was listening, butokay, no, I want to do this part
of what you suggested.
I just don't think this part'sgoing to work Now.
I can still be angry, because Ijust think everybody should
listen to me and my ideas arethe best.
But that's a completelydifferent issue than anger.
So we're only dealing withanger today and reality, that's
(32:33):
right.
So I think the first practicalthing is to pause.
I think the second practicalthing I could do, if I'm the one
that's angry, is use myverbiage and just communicate
what I was looking for in thatmoment, for in that moment Again
, it might have been a selfishthing that I was looking for,
but it's helpful for the otherperson that's a party to my
(32:53):
emotional response to know whatI was looking for.
They might be willing to giveit to me, because it might not
be a really horrific ask on mypart, so to speak.
But then I think we do have toteach people.
Hey, there's a way tocommunicate with your words and
your attitude and your tone ofvoice.
That's just completelyinappropriate.
(33:15):
So I'm going to take just aslight tangent on this.
In our counseling offices, weteach our clients all the time.
Part of conflict resolution islearning to fight respectfully.
I'm a fan of couples fighting.
I'm not a fan of them tearingeach other down when they do it,
and so we teach them listen.
(33:37):
You have to use words thataffirm the person.
You're not allowed to use wordsthat don't.
You have to use a tone of voicethat shows respect.
You're not allowed to use tonesof voice that don't.
And so, in my anger.
If I'm already trying to patterngood communication, I think a
third practical thing to do isfor people to realize I have to.
(33:59):
I'm not allowed to use certainwords when I'm angry.
Those are just off limits.
I might normally want to usethem.
I'm actually not allowed.
It's disrespectful to Stacy orKitty or Amy when I use those
words, and so I'm not allowed todo that, it doesn't matter how
angry I am.
Now, again, that takesdiscipline.
(34:19):
But doesn't all relationshiptake discipline?
Aren't the best relationshipsin our lives, the ones that
we're investing time and effortinto?
Well, that's discipline, and soI think it's a skill worthwhile
for us to learn and for us toteach other people and for us to
practice so that we just becomepeople who, even in our anger,
(34:43):
well at least we're stillrespectful and kind.
We're not decimating each other, right?
I don't thinkimating each otherRight.
I don't think that's too muchto ask.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
I think we're smart enough to learn that we should
be.
We should be.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
Yeah.
So I'm just curious.
I work by myself, you knowpretty much.
I mean, I'm in a sales position.
I'm just really curious aboutthis idea of an employer sending
an employee to counseling foranger.
Okay, Totally get this ideathat you've got to learn how to
(35:22):
express yourself in anon-threatening, non-disparaging
way.
Sure, I got to believe thatthere are situations where
people in your office or aperson that you continue to have
issues with.
There's a very good chance thatperson is in the wrong Mm-hmm.
(35:47):
So how do you counsel people?
What do you do?
How do you counsel them?
What are the phrases?
What do you say?
What is the path?
When the person you continue tohave issues with you're saying
what you're saying, you're nolonger angry.
Of course, you're not throwinganything to them, but the other
(36:10):
person just doesn't care,doesn't listen, continues to
treat you poorly.
What's your suggestion to theformerly angry, reformed person
who still has to deal withsomeone who is not playing by
the same rules?
Speaker 6 (36:28):
Yeah.
So we've had plenty of clientslike that over 26 years.
They get told they're wrong.
I don't have a problem tellingyou you're wrong If you're
sitting across in a room from me, if you're paying for my time,
if you're coming because youwant help and I believe the best
(36:48):
help you need is for you to betold that you're the one that's
out of line and you need toknock it off.
I'm going to tell you that,right.
Speaker 5 (36:54):
So it doesn't come from a place of anger, no,
you're just telling it like itis Calmly.
Yes, yes, saying your opinion.
Speaker 6 (37:04):
And I'm trying, so I might be misunderstanding your
question, Amy, and if I am just,you know, re-ask.
Well, this is interesting, sokeep going, I want to hear this
so I have terminated peoplebefore because in my office I'm
patterning what I'm teaching you.
This is literally what Ibelieve I'm living this out and
(37:27):
so if I'm being calm, I'm beingrespectful and you're just
constantly barking at me,swearing at me, yelling at me,
I've got a pretty long fuse.
As a counselor I can handle awhole lot emotionally, but if I
see that pattern through two,three sessions, we're done,
(37:52):
because if I care more about youliving in healthy ways for the
sake of your relationships thanyou do, I can't help you.
So I have a really frankconversation and I just tell
them listen, everybody elseactually isn't the problem, you
are the problem.
And you're the problem becauseit seems to me like you believe
you're actually right andeverybody else is wrong.
(38:14):
That's arrogance and it's a lackof humility.
And as long as you stay there,not only can I not help you, but
you are doomed to continue tosever every relationship in your
life, because healthy peoplewill not stay in relationships
like that.
It's not because we believethat person is toxic.
(38:35):
It's not because I believe thatI'm not allowed to be
mistreated.
I understand I'm going to bemistreated.
I also understand I have thefreedom to go.
I don't actually have tovolunteer for it.
That's, that's not smart,that's not wise and and I want
you to be encouraged to yourabsolute best potential.
(38:57):
And I know you can berespectful, I know you can be
calm.
So if you're going to refuse todo that, trust me, deanna's not
the counselor for you.
We're done.
And I literally get up, I openmy door and I tell them when
they're ready to be teachable tothe multiple voices in their
(39:18):
life, they're more than welcometo come back and see me.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Wow, have you ever felt unsafe?
Oh?
Speaker 6 (39:29):
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Yeah, I've got.
Speaker 6 (39:32):
I've got some really fun stories in that department.
Yeah, I've got some really funstories in that department.
Yeah, for sure, for sure I have.
Yeah.
But I'm pretty connected after26 years of counseling, so I
know lots of people who serveand protect.
I know how to dial 911.
(39:58):
I know some other things thatI'm not going to say publicly on
a podcast that I just I knowhow to handle myself and so I've
never, ever been pushed into aposition where I have felt like,
oh, my goodness, I've got tohave cops intervene, I need to
make an emergency phone call.
But there have been severalsituations over the years where
I'm like, wow, this person'svery volatile and when that
(40:20):
happens we just put out an alertto all the staff and we make
provisions for if they're everback on the property, we
preemptively strike, so to speak.
But those have not been nearlyas frequent, even with angry
people, and I think most of thetime, people who are completely
(40:41):
out of control see the damageit's creating in their lives.
They might not be teachable toit, but they see the damage, and
so when they're met with justthis presence of, I'm not moved
by that.
That doesn't intimidate me,you're actually the one with the
problem.
They have a tendency to backdown and go look for somebody
(41:04):
else to harass Not always, butoften they do.
I think it's different, amy, asyou said, in a work environment
.
I think you don't have thefreedom in a work environment
that you might in otherenvironments.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (41:19):
But hopefully the leadership in a work environment
would have a zero tolerancepolicy.
That would be ideal for leadersto take seriously respectful,
safe behavior in a workenvironment.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Yeah, so obviously there are.
It is.
They can make therecommendation that the person
seeks counseling and thatdoesn't break.
You know that's.
That's okay with humanresources.
That was the first thing thatcame to my mind when you said
(41:54):
that sometimes clients arereferred from an employer, right
oh?
Speaker 6 (42:01):
Again, they can't be forced Right.
But if a boss is like, hey,listen, we've written you up
three times.
Yeah, now we're in a positionwhere we might have to be more
aggressive with you, based onyou know the operating policy in
your handbook, here's whatwe're recommending.
We'd like to encourage you togo to counseling.
Lots of times the corporationsin this area have a fund and
(42:25):
they pay for it.
Okay, they cover those costs.
They consider them mentalhealth costs.
They consider them notworkman's comp, but it comes out
of a fund similar to that thatthey just have sitting there as
a way of serving their employeeswell.
And again, you can't make themcome, but you can strongly
(42:47):
encourage it, particularly ifthis person has a pattern that
they've already been written upfor in their place of work.
And lots of times people aremore than willing to come.
We like our jobs, we want ourjobs, we value our jobs, and if
you've got a boss who caresenough about you to offer mental
(43:07):
health care to you, you've gotto be pretty foolish to not take
advantage of that.
Speaker 5 (43:16):
Right when, and this might be a hard question to
answer.
But what?
How would you rank the?
You know anger as opposed toother issues that you counsel?
As far as you know the, thebigger issues to the I don't
(43:38):
know how I want to say it.
You know what do you counselthe most on.
You know, oh, okay, you knowwhat I mean, like what's the?
Biggest issue down to Sure, orwhat does everyone see the most?
Speaker 6 (43:53):
I would say myself personally, there are nine of us
in the center that counsel.
I would say myself personally,there are nine of us in the
center that council.
I would say I see a majority ofadultery.
So I'm going to widen that termto mean a wide range of sexual
(44:16):
misconduct on the part of one ofthe spouses.
I counsel a large amount ofthat.
I counsel a large amount ofdepression and anxiety and I
counsel a large I don't.
Yeah, I'm not sure why this ishappening now I, over the last
(44:40):
three years, have seen adramatic increase in the amount
of parents of adult children whoare coming in because their
adult children are severingrelationships with them For a
variety of reasons.
Yeah, usually differences ofopinion.
(45:00):
You know, the mom and dad areentrenched in a view,
politically or morally or intheir faith, and the adult child
who's in their twenties,thirties or forties doesn't hold
that view, hasn't held thatview, and it just creates so
much conflict that the adultchild's like listen, I'm done,
(45:21):
I'm not having a relationshipwith you, and that's really
devastating to the parents.
Speaker 4 (45:26):
So I, I'm sorry Go ahead, no go ahead.
Is the root of that?
A lack of respect for the otherperson's opinion Is the root of
that?
Speaker 6 (45:35):
a lack of respect for the other person's opinion?
Oh for sure, yeah.
And do we live in America rightnow?
Do we see that anywhere else?
Is that trending anywhere else?
Goodness, as a culture, we justdon't respect other people's
different viewpoints.
And I'm not talking aboutagreement.
(45:56):
I understand that between thefour of us we're going to have a
wide range of differentviewpoints and I'm not expecting
the three of you to agree withme on hardly any of them.
Like we're adults, we're notgoing to agree, right?
I'm not talking about agreement.
I just mean the bare minimumhuman respect.
Yeah, I totally agree with that, amy.
I mean the bare minimum humanrespect.
(46:17):
Yeah, I totally agree with that, amy.
We've lost the mature, kind,respectful ability to disagree
with somebody and still valuethem, and that is a respect
issue.
Now, I think it's possible.
It works both ways in thosefamily dynamics.
Like I'm not blaming only theadult kids and I'm not blaming
(46:39):
only the parents.
I think it's shared, but, yeah,for sure, I think there's
there's a lack of respectingthat you have a different
viewpoint, but, goodness, Istill just adore you.
I think you're wonderful and Iwant you in my circle.
Yeah, we've lost that or we'relosing it.
Maybe I should say that yeah,and that concerns me for
(47:03):
families.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (47:05):
How, how do you not totally stress over, you know,
the, the people you'recounseling?
You know, hoping that they, youknow the, the people you're
counseling, you know hoping thatthey, you know, can improve
whatever they're trying to do?
How, how do you personally, um,you know, try to I don't know
(47:28):
if you distance yourself from itor you just know that that's
your job is, you know, not toworry about all of your, you,
all the people you're counseling, or?
Speaker 3 (47:38):
how do you not take it on?
Yeah, how do you leave work atwork?
Speaker 4 (47:42):
That's such a great question.
Speaker 6 (47:44):
That's such a great question.
I have definitely grown in that.
To answer that question, stacey, I would say the first several
years of counseling weredefinitely rough and my husband
can attest to that.
We've been married for 31 yearsand so he has seen me at the
very beginning of my career andnow kind of seasoned in my
(48:07):
career and he has said there'sbeen a dramatic shift in how I
navigate what I do for a living.
I think part of it is my build.
I think I've been built tohandle hard and to handle a lot
of hard.
Well, I'm not saying that atall with arrogance.
We all have different strengthsand weaknesses and I have
(48:28):
plenty of weaknesses.
This podcast does not want togo that long to discuss those.
But one of my strengths is thatI really do handle a lot of hard
and heavy emotionally very well.
I don't experience anxiety orworry from my clients.
I don't panic when I getemergency phone calls because of
(48:53):
suicide attempts or domesticviolence.
I have a tendency to be reallycool and calm and that has
served me well over 26 years.
But I think the other thingthat serves me well is I'm
really intentional about my ownpersonal mental and emotional
(49:13):
well-being my own personalmental and emotional well-being.
I live very intentionallyduring the week in how I build
relationship with people.
Steve and I have a very strongmarriage that we work really
hard to maintain its strength,because that helps me then all
week long as I carry otherpeople's heavy and hard.
(49:34):
I've got a good group offriends who are just their life
giving and we do these types ofthings together.
No, not podcasts.
But, we're just doing lifetogether and we're supporting
one another and we're caring forone another.
I do a lot of reading and a lotof outdoor activity and a lot
(49:58):
of outdoor activity, and so,yeah, I think I'm probably
pretty intentional about my ownemotional well-being and mental
health, and I think part of thereason I am is because I
regularly struggle and wrestlewith depression myself.
I have a tendency to rollpretty low emotionally, and so,
in order to maintain a reallygood, healthy view of life and
(50:22):
movement through life even in myseasons of depression, that
ongoing intentionality everyweek has helped tremendously.
So, yeah, I think most of it'sjust the build.
Speaker 3 (50:35):
I can handle a lot of hard and ugly wow, well, um, I,
deanna, I just am so impressedby you.
You are just so professionaland this conversation, your,
your clients are lucky to haveyou.
Speaker 6 (50:56):
Thank you.
That's really kind of you tosay.
Speaker 3 (50:58):
Thank you you do.
It's so needed.
And, yeah, I love that we cantalk about mental health and our
own.
I mean, I've been on anantidepressant for I don't know
how many years many and you knowpeople can say that and it's
not like what.
Yeah, you know what.
Speaker 6 (51:19):
It's a real gift the openness that we have today to
talk about that.
Speaker 5 (51:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
Wow, I feel like we could talk.
We could talk forever.
I know right and have me over.
Speaker 6 (51:36):
Let's do coffee.
Just have me over, ladies.
I'd like to hear all yourstories.
I love to listen.
It'd be great.
Speaker 3 (51:44):
And you know there are always questions that I'm
like okay, tell me a little bitabout right, whereas we want the
juicy stuff too um, where is we?
Speaker 4 (52:00):
we want the, we want the juicy stuff too.
Yeah, I love it when people sayI don't, um, I don't like to
participate in drama, but Idon't mind hearing about it yes,
exactly.
Speaker 6 (52:08):
Oh, counselors know lots of drama.
I bet.
Speaker 5 (52:12):
That's the drama.
Speaker 4 (52:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (52:14):
Yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (52:17):
Wow.
Well, thank you so much forsharing this, and you know what
we um.
We should probably dig intosome of these other topics as
well, so, if you're open to it,we'd love to have you back
another time.
Speaker 6 (52:32):
Oh, I would love that I'd be honored Great.
Speaker 5 (52:34):
We appreciate the ask .
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 6 (52:35):
Yeah, I would love that I'd be honored.
I really appreciate the ask.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 5 (52:38):
Yeah, perfect, thank you.
Speaker 3 (52:41):
Any parting, any other parting thoughts, stacey
or Amy?
Does anybody have a shot?
So, deanna, one of the thingsthat we do, sometimes at the end
of a show, we have a, a shotwhich is maybe a suggestion for
people, um, something that wemight have come upon earlier in
the week that we that we want toshare sometimes we have and
(53:03):
sometimes we don't.
Yeah, I've got nothing well,let me tell you what I was just
google searching before wejumped on here today, because
this is also a pretty regulartopic what's in your Google
search?
Speaker 6 (53:21):
That episode was great.
By the way, I loved thatepisode.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
I was all over that episode.
You're like, ooh, what's inmine and this just popped up on
my socials.
So somebody that I follow shewas showing how she has
basically created a salad bar inher refrigerator crisper drawer
.
Speaker 4 (53:45):
I saw that, I saw that.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
Brilliant, I know.
And so I'm like looking at allof these little compartments and
she's got you know all theveggies prepped and the lettuces
washed and spun.
And so I'm like, looking at allof these little compartments
and she's got you know all theveggies prepped and the lettuces
washed and spun, and so you canliterally pull that drawer out
and you can, you know, makeyourself a salad bar.
Speaker 6 (54:05):
That's a great idea.
Speaker 3 (54:07):
Yes, so I was searching, I was looking on
Amazon to find all of thoselittle Containers, all of those
little um containers, thoselittle you know bpa container
things that I can fit in,because my, we have a fairly new
refrigerator.
Refrigerator it's got thefrench doors that open and then
you've got the big drawer thatpulls out and I'm like I can
(54:29):
organize that better.
Yes, we so want to eat better,we want to do meal prepping and
all of that kind of stuff and itjust we talk about it forever
and we, uh, we it, I don't getit done I think I think of all
the things that you can mealprep, the hardest to make it
good is a salad, is a salad.
Speaker 4 (54:50):
Salad out is a hundred percent better I don't
know why that is but that's true.
I don't know if it's thechilled plates, I don't know.
Yes, you know, but dang, yeah,making a salad at home is always
like okay, fine.
Speaker 5 (55:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (55:08):
Work on that Kitty.
Speaker 5 (55:10):
Yeah, work on that, kitty, and report back.
Okay, all right, I am, I'mgoing to work on that kitty and
report back.
Speaker 3 (55:14):
All right, I am, I'm going to work on that, because
poor Bill, every day, so hecomes home for lunch every day
and he's eaten the same thingfor years Lunch meat.
You know lunch, meat and cheeseFor years.
Like we can do better, so weneed suggestions.
(55:36):
So, for our listeners andviewers, um, we're we're putting
lots of posts out over onfacebook.
Maybe this is this would be agood question over the next week
.
Yeah, what do you guys eat?
What do you eat?
Because there are a lot ofpeople who are very disciplined
about their menu that they havelined up for the week.
They rotate things in and out.
(55:57):
Some people are really, reallygood at that, so I would love
for somebody to share that withus if that is their strong suit.
Yeah, oh, there we go.
That would be good.
Help us out, deanna, stay withus.
Um, when we uh roll the musichere, just stay with us and
we'll all come togetherbackstage.
So, all right.
(56:19):
Well, thank you guys.
Good to have a conversationagain.
We'll see you all next week.
Speaker 5 (56:25):
Cheers, cheers, bye, cheers, cheers, bye-bye, bye,
bye.
All right, woo, bye-bye.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
Bye that wild.
Here I go.
Here I go, coming.
I can't ever stop.
I'm a tour de force running.
Get me to the top.
I don't need an invitation.
I'm about to start acelebration.
Let me in.
Brought a good time for somefriends.
Turn it up loud past 10.
All right, ooh, look I got that.
Wow, who wants some heads upright now?
We got that.
Turn it up loud.
I know you're wondering how.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I got that.
Wow, here I go.
Here I go, coming.
I can't ever stop.
I'm a tour de force running.
Get me to the top, I don't needa.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Well, good evening friends, Hello Get me to the top
.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
I don't need a Good for you.
Good for you and we've got adeal in the works.
Oh, it will all happen then, sohopefully I'll hear something
tonight or tomorrow morning.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Good, good, good, good.
Well, welcome everybody toanother episode of Three
Cocktails In Stacey.
Amy and myself, we are backtogether again.
I've been on vacation for thelast week.
This is the first time thatI've talked to each of you since
my little Full side Boondoggle.
Yes, yeah, I almost said holaHola.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
Yes hola.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Hola.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Which is kind of the extent of my Spanish.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
But no, por favor, did you throw in the, please I?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
you know, that's that word, just that's what that
word's too long, it's justeasier to say please oh, okay,
yeah, but did you mostly relax?
Yes, all about relaxation wedid.
It was so relaxing.
We um, we ate way too much.
Uh, we were ready to come homeand you know that's the sign of
(01:51):
a good vacation when you'reyou're like all right, that
that's good, that we got somesleep, we got some sun, um,
really good food, all of thosewonderful things and ready to
get back to reality.
And it really helped that itwas 40 degrees when we landed
here, because it was.
(02:12):
So everybody that we met andthey'd say, where are you from
Minnesota?
They're like, oh, it's coldthere, right?
We would say and I had ascreenshot of it it was 17 below
zero on Tuesday when we left.
Screenshot of it, it was 17below zero on Tuesday when we
left, yeah, and it was 85 whenwe landed in Kutukana.
So, yeah, yeah, it was greatthat it warmed up yes, it was a
(02:34):
good a good week to leave yeah,yes, it was.
So came back totally feelingrelaxed and no stress and super
excited about the conversationthat we're going to have tonight
.
We have really enjoyed bringingguests on to the podcast
Collectively.
(02:55):
We have such an amazing groupof friends and friends who do
really cool shit, right?
Friends who have very coolcareers, very cool areas of
expertise, talents, all of thosethings, and we're going to dig
into a topic that we have noteven gone anywhere near on this
(03:15):
podcast, right?
Yes, so we're going to bring inour special guest.
I would love to introduce myfriend, deanna doctor.
Speaker 6 (03:28):
Welcome, deanna thank you, hi.
Ladies, nice to be with youtonight very good to have you
here.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yeah, so excited.
Deanna, you are a let me getthis right you are a licensed,
no, a certified.
You're a certified therapist,certified faith-based counselor
Yep, counselor and you work withindividuals and you work with
(03:56):
families, correct, right?
Yeah, yeah, so I've gotten toknow Deanna over the last couple
of years, um just throughonline, which is great, and I
just feel like we we became fastfriends um very, very quickly,
and so it's been fun to learnabout what you do professionally
and how you help people.
(04:17):
And, boy, I would have toimagine that what you do is well
.
You're probably very busy on aweekly basis, aren't you?
I am, and your practice haskind of just continued to grow
in need.
(04:37):
Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 6 (04:41):
So I've been counseling for 26 years and,
interestingly enough, in thattime frame have really honed in
on individuals and families.
But COVID changed the dynamic.
I feel like COVID gets blamedfor everything, but when you've
done something for 26 years andthen you're shut down and you're
(05:01):
closed down, our community, ourhealth department, considers
mental health a necessity, andso most of the practices in the
area stayed open, as our centerdid.
We stayed open and we have beenjust inundated ever since.
We rarely before that waitinglist.
(05:26):
We now have a waiting list thatruns months out.
We're seeing younger and youngerpeople.
We're seeing younger andyounger people who are dealing
with more significant stressesand hardships, and so I am busy.
But I also have job securityand that's hard to complain
(05:47):
about.
People are always going to needhelp.
People are always going to needsomebody to listen to them.
Life is hard if you don't havea community that listens.
So I'm really thankful.
I feel very blessed to do whatI do and to be able to come
alongside people and shouldersome of their heavy for them.
(06:07):
Many of them don't have anybodyelse doing that.
I feel really blessed to beable to do that.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
I think a lot of people are grateful that the
topic of mental health is talkedabout now, and it's not.
It's you know, honestly,doesn't everyone?
Shouldn't everyone in the worldhave some sort of therapy or
(06:38):
have some sort of, you know,counselor or session, or
something I think we allprobably have at different?
Speaker 4 (07:09):
times right, mm-hmm.
Stacey and Amy.
Yep, yeah, and it's nice thatit's more.
It was great to have a neutralparty, so to speak, to talk to
about things, that it wasn'tsomebody who knew everybody in
my life and didn't come in withany preconceived notions of the
(07:30):
people in my life, and you knowso it really.
It's that that professional Ithink, is huge is huge.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Yeah, agree.
So when we, um, when Deannagraciously agreed to be on the
podcast, uh, we started talkingabout you know, so what?
There are obviously so manydifferent things that we can
talk about and you counsel onmany different things, but we
(08:04):
kind of zeroed in on the topicof anger, um, and that's
something that we really havenot talked about here at all and
honestly, I don't think that Iever thought about that as a
topic that is discussed with acounselor or or with a a
therapist, but of course it is,um, so I'm super excited to talk
(08:27):
about this topic.
You know, um, we all feel theemotion and it can come over us
in at different times and indifferent ways and, um, I think
we can, we can describe thefeeling of it, that you know the
temperature raising, or youknow that heartbeat, heartbeat,
(08:47):
all of these different physicalreactions to anger.
But what is anger exactly?
How would you describe that?
Speaker 6 (08:59):
Is that a question for me?
Yes, yes, yes, and I think wedescribe it that way as a whole
(09:22):
person reaction to theirperception of a situation,
because you and I could be inthe same situation, we're
experiencing it at the same time, your perception could be
radically different, and itdoesn't evoke any anger in you,
and meanwhile I'm ready, likethat, to fly off the handle in
(09:44):
anger.
And so we try to define itreally simply as just a whole
person reaction to ourperception of the events or the
circumstances in front of us.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
So when this topic comes up for you with your
clients, is it?
I mean, I would assume thatthere may be situations where a
client will come to you andthey'll say anger is overtaking
me, and you hear people say this.
I mean, I've heard the term oh,that person has anger issues
and I hate that.
I mean that's kind of an unfairthing to say about someone.
You don't know what's going onin their life.
But how does it come up in yoursessions and what sort of
(10:41):
approach do you take on thistopic?
Speaker 6 (10:44):
We certainly hear that People come in and lots of
times they're sent to us bybosses because their anger has
created a problem in theworkplace.
Maybe they've thrown something,maybe they've got a fast, sharp
mouth that's being derogatory orunkind to fellow employees.
(11:06):
Maybe they're beinginsubordinate on a regular basis
to a boss, and so theassumption is man, they've got
an anger issue, they need help,they need to go to counseling,
and so they'll come in and ontheir intake paperwork they're
really honest, they'll say I'mcoming because I've been told I
have an anger problem or I havean anger issue.
(11:26):
It's pretty easy to see thateven in the session it presents
fairly quickly and fairly easilywhen you start to ask questions
and you start to poke and prodaround people's lives.
But the interesting thing is, Ithink all of us, if we're going
to, if we're going to gostrictly by the definition I
gave we all have anger issuesfrom time to time.
(11:48):
There's just stuff that'salways going on around us and my
perception of it is that I'mbeing harmed some way and so of
course I'm going to get angry.
So I agree with you, kitty, thephraseology is problematic just
from the vantage point of okay,if that's the term we're going
to use, even your counselor hasan anger issue.
(12:10):
So we prefer to help people seewhen they get angry and why
they get angry, so we can givethem the tools for why and when
they get angry.
Understanding it's not going tobe a constant thing, yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
I, I never really thought of anger as as the issue
.
I thought of it as, um, howbeing upset manifests itself.
You know that great distinction, because what you just said,
you know, something's botheringthem and their response, it's
(12:51):
their response, that's angry.
So to me, the anger isn't thething.
Well, I mean, that's whatcauses problems.
Their response causes problems.
But you don't just people,don't just wake up angry for no
reason.
There's something there.
Speaker 6 (13:09):
Yes, yeah, that's a great distinction, and part of
the dilemma is the only reasonthat it would cause a problem is
because they've externallyflown off the handle in some way
.
I'm using that broad sweepingterm.
They might have just yelled, butthey also might have thrown
something or broken somethingand typically we don't pay
(13:32):
attention.
Even in our own lives we don'tpay attention to the things that
are bothering us until theyevidence externally and they
create an external problem.
So yeah, I love the distinctionthat anger isn't my.
My external response in myanger isn't actually my biggest
(13:54):
problem.
What's causing me to react thatway is my biggest problem, and
we delve into that in counseling.
We try to help people.
See, listen, you're gettingangry.
You're thinking you're gettingangry because of mistreatment in
your past.
You think you're getting angrybecause you're dealing with
(14:16):
difficult situations right nowin your present.
You think you're getting angrybecause you have unmet desires
and unmet expectations.
You think you're getting angrybecause you have unmet desires
and unmet expectations, butthose are simply influencing
your emotional reaction.
They're not causing it.
That emotional response iscaused deep within all of us
(14:39):
from the belief that I'mentitled to something and in
this moment I'm not getting it.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Mm-hmm.
And so in that way, you'relikely to blame what you're.
You know, it's this person thatI'm interacting with right now.
It's their fault, Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6 (14:59):
For sure.
Well, and don't we hear thatShoot, maybe we've even said it
ourselves.
You know how I get when you andwe use that phrase as
justification so somebody hasdone something, and we're like,
oh my goodness, you know how Iget when you say that, well,
actually I have complete controlover what I say.
So if Stacy or Amy or Kittypops off with something, I don't
(15:22):
actually get to blame you thatI opened my mouth in anger and
decimated you verbally justbecause you did X, y or Z.
I have control over Deanna'sresponses.
But man, anger is one of thoseemotions that we go from zero
calm, just super chill in lifeto I can throw something in the
(15:47):
snap of a finger, my emotion canbe triggered that quickly.
I can throw something in thesnap of a finger, my emotion can
be triggered that quickly.
So I think it feels for peoplelike they're not responsible for
how they navigate their angerbecause it's such a quick
reaction from nothing's wrong toI just vented or exploded or
(16:10):
hurt something or somebody, andthat makes it hard for people
who really do struggle with thatemotion.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Yeah, fascinating.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
Yeah.
So then what do you?
You know how do you start by,you know, managing that anger
emotion.
You know what would be yourstart to fixing it, you know.
Speaker 6 (16:41):
Yeah, so typically what I do is I spend time asking
them for the themes do is Ispend time asking them for the
themes if they've noticed themesor patterns to when they do get
angry Either internally theyjust feel angry or externally
now other people can see it.
I spend a couple of sessionsjust helping them look over the
(17:05):
trajectory of their life andevaluate if they can see any
patterns or themes.
Most people can, with a littlebit of help and some questions
directed at them.
As they identify those themes.
Then we start to talk about andwhat were you desiring around
those themes?
(17:25):
What did you actually believethat you deserved or you were
entitled to?
It's the flavor of entitlementthat really promotes in me the
reaction of anger.
I actually do believe I have aright and that right is being
violated.
I think you're the reason it'sbeing violated.
(17:47):
So my anger is going to bedirected at you.
But after they can identify somepatterns and themes, then we
start to look at the desiresthat drove them in those
patterns and themes.
What did they believe theydeserved?
And that can be again.
That can be so hard for us,because it's right and
(18:10):
appropriate for people to treatus with respect.
That's appropriate.
Civilizations thrive becausewe're mature and we're mutually
respectful and we appreciate oneanother, one another.
(18:32):
So it's hard to guide somebodywho's already believing those
good, right things aboutthemselves as a human, that they
don't actually have the powerto demand a certain response
from another human and that ifthey don't get it, it's not
appropriate for them to react inanger.
That can be a very hard sellbecause they're convinced they
should be treated a certain way.
But at the end of the day, Ihave no control over how other
(18:57):
people are going to attempt totreat me.
I only have control over howlong I stay underneath the
treatment.
Does that make sense?
Am I explaining that well?
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Yeah, I mean again, it's choice If you think you
deserve to be treated some wayand you're not being treated
that way.
It's your choice whether youstay and engage or whether you
remove yourself.
A lot of us go right to theanger Right Because sometimes
(19:35):
you're not in a position toleave.
When you talk about workplaceCorrect, I mean there are times
in all of our lives when angeris actually you can see it.
You can see that you youhaven't made it up, you're not
being ultra sensitive.
Somebody is treating you poorly.
Right.
(19:57):
But it's still your choice onhow you respond.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
And very rarely do people react to anger in a
calmer, helpful way, right Likeanger feeds.
I've noticed this in myself.
Anger feeds all of the basestparts of how Deanna's ready to
fight and she's ready toannihilate you.
I mean, that's just that wellsup in all of us.
(20:25):
So if I can make the choice inthat moment, even when I'm not
being treated well, to respondout of a calmer mindset which,
again, we help our clients learnhow to do there's the potential
that that behavior, althoughthe behavior might not change,
(20:45):
there's the potential that therearen't other complicating
factors in play now, because Ihaven't fed any kind of issue
myself.
Of course that sounds reallygreat in theory, until somebody
is in front of you and they'redisrespecting you or they're
using their mouth to annihilateyou or they're getting
(21:07):
physically aggressive towardsyou, and then it's kind of like
all bets are off and now thebetter person just needs to win.
I mean, that's what rises in us.
Yeah, that's not a reallyhelpful way to solve conflict.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
The fight or flight comes into play there.
For sure, for sure, yeah, cananger actually have?
Speaker 6 (21:58):
can anger actually serve a positive purpose?
Oh, I believe so.
When you, when you look aroundat the injustice, when you look
around at the innocence in ourcultures and in other cultures
being taken advantage of andhurt, when you look around at
harmful or illegal activitiesand behaviors, activities and
behaviors, anger is an energythat can literally be leveraged
to fight for the cause ofjustice, to fight for the cause
of wrongs being made right.
(22:18):
I think there's a reallybeautiful place for the energy
of anger to be leveraged so thatpeople are helped, harm is
stopped, injustice is correctedand righted.
Yeah, I think we have to workat that.
I think we have to practiceutilizing the energy of our
(22:44):
anger in a really positive,constructive way.
But goodness, so many of thegood, right things that have
been done throughout historyhave been done because somebody
was just ticked off at how wrongsomething was and it created
this.
Huh, I can do something aboutthis.
(23:04):
That's a beautiful energy.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
It reminds me of the phrase well-behaved women seldom
make history.
It takes that fire, as you'vetalked about it, that energy of
anger being fueled, and alsojust back to the basic idea of
anger and everyday situations.
(23:29):
To do something positive withit does require the ability to
kind of step out of yourself andrecognize what's going on and
have the wherewithal to say youknow, I got to think this
through a little bit that itcan't just be that instant gut
reaction.
Right.
Speaker 6 (23:49):
Well, here's the interesting thing.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
Oh sorry, Go ahead I was just going to say that when
you think about raising kids,you know that's what we're
trying to do.
Use your words.
What?
How are you feeling?
All of this?
Our generation?
I don't think my mother everasked me how I was feeling about
something.
I was told to knock it off orgo to my room.
You know those were myalternatives, so I don't think a
(24:15):
lot of us have of our age.
I'm just going to make asweeping generalization, as we
like to do.
We didn't practice that, wedidn't practice the maybe I
shouldn't say this Right, andwe're hoping that the younger
generations have had a littlebit more of that.
(24:35):
But to be able to step back andrealize that you know, right
idea, wrong response, right.
Speaker 6 (24:45):
And again, in all of our emotions, anger has a
tendency to have this negativeconnotation, but in all of our
emotions, pausing before I reactor respond would be just a good
life principle, but I do haveto practice that.
I have to practice going.
(25:06):
Whoa, Deanna, take a breath.
What would be the best way tonavigate this right now?
Probably what you're thinkingof saying wouldn't be the best
initially.
And so, yeah, I think the pauseis really, really, really
beneficial as a tool and weencourage people, particularly
(25:28):
people who do struggle withmoving from zero to 60 like that
in their anger.
We encourage them hey, justpractice a pause in your own
head, count and take some timeto just count up to five or 10
and then open your mouth torespond.
(25:51):
You might still be really angry, but that initial five to 10
seconds of what was going to flyout of your mouth probably
isn't going to after you'veslowed your roll a bit, before
you open your mouth.
And again, I'm trying tominimize, as I help my clients,
I'm trying to minimize as I helpmy clients, I'm trying to
minimize them creating even moredestruction, so to speak, in
(26:13):
the relationships in their lifebecause of emotion that they
just didn't utilize well.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Yeah, because it can be tremendously damaging to
relationships.
Speaker 6 (26:27):
Oh my goodness, tremendously damaging to
relationships.
Oh my goodness, the lack oftrust.
That's the first and foremostbreakdown for people who are
consistently, regularly angry inrelationships.
The other side of thatrelationship gets to a point
where they don't trust you.
You're no longer safe, there'sno longer security in front of
(26:48):
you, and so they start to pullback, they withhold information,
they emotionally close down.
Well, there's not going to bereal intimate friendship or
relationship with that.
There's a huge lack of respect.
The number of times I've beenout and about in public and I've
watched somebody just pop offin their anger, my first thought
(27:11):
going oh buddy, we could helpyou with that.
Yeah, really sad.
Right now You're functioningthe way we do as kids.
Kids have to learn how toregulate.
They don't know how to regulate.
That's part of our job asparents is we're training them
how to regulate their emotions.
(27:31):
It always saddens me when I seesomebody as a grown adult who's
functioning like they're still achild in their emotional
responses to life, and so Ithink if you're regularly
interacting with somebody likethat, it leads to a lack of
respect for you.
You don't actually respect thatperson at the same level that
you would if they had control oftheir emotions.
(27:53):
Plus, I think it becomes asafety issue for a lot of people
.
Anger is an easy emotion toabuse, and I think for children
in particular.
If parents are regularly angry,they're regularly yelling,
they're regularly yanking theirkids around yeah, now it becomes
a lack of safety.
(28:14):
There's nothing beneficial thatcomes from that.
It really just destroys therelationships between people.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Yeah, so it's.
It is, it's another, it's atopic with.
So, just like abuse, you knowthere's conversation around
stopping the cycle.
Anger is a topic as well, thatyou would seek to stop the cycle
because, if you can, for surefamilies, uh, when they're
(28:48):
raising young kids, kids to takethat out of the family dynamic.
Not that you're never going tocreate a situation where people
aren't going to get angry aboutsomething, but it all comes down
to how you deal with it, right?
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (29:05):
I think particularly for children deal with it.
Yeah, I think particularly forchildren.
If we can remember andunderstand, as parents, that the
amygdala is the part of thebrain that processes all of our
emotion.
Well, the minute I experienceemotion, my amygdala starts to
just fire off adrenaline andnoradrenaline.
(29:26):
Well, if I'm a kid, I alreadykind of struggle with restraint,
but now I've got all thatadrenaline pulsing through me,
I'm going to do and say allsorts of things, and so I think
it's helpful for parents torealize wait a minute.
You can teach your child inthose initial stages.
You can teach them to pause.
(29:47):
You can teach them to choosebetween option A or option B.
Give them their options, Showthem what their options are.
Here's the anger option.
This is what it'll look like.
Here's the restrained or calmoption.
Which one do you want to use?
Of course the kid's alwaysgoing to want to choose the
(30:08):
anger option because he doesn'thave to work at that.
That just flies out of him.
But if we can teach them whatcomes from that, they might be
more prone to early on learnmore restraint in their anger,
and that's a win as they age.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Yeah, yeah, it takes discipline.
So taking that pause, that's areally good practice and
everybody can benefit from that.
And I also think too, as we getolder, as we mature, some of
that it's just a little biteasier for us to do.
For sure, I would agree withthat.
(30:48):
What are some other techniquesthat you employ on this topic?
Speaker 6 (30:59):
Well, I'm going to go back.
I believe it was you, amy, whowas making the statement that
you know.
We encourage people to usetheir words.
We encourage kids to use theirwords.
We encourage people to usetheir words.
We encourage kids to use theirwords.
So, after we teach clients topause, we encourage them to
think through hey, what did youbelieve you were entitled to,
what did you feel like youdeserved in that moment?
Because now is your chance tocalmly verbalize that Again.
(31:23):
I should not be demanding fromyou anything, because I don't
have that kind of control, butlots of times people want to
give me what I desire in therelationship.
They just need to know what itis.
And so if I've paused and I'veslowed my role, so to speak, a
(31:43):
little bit, now I can choose mywords to just say hey, amy, in
this moment I didn't feel heard.
I felt like you were justpushing aside my suggestion for
the rest of the day of work, andit gives Amy an opportunity to
go.
Oh man, that wasn't myintention, deanna.
(32:06):
I thought I was listening, butokay, no, I want to do this part
of what you suggested.
I just don't think this part'sgoing to work Now.
I can still be angry, because Ijust think everybody should
listen to me and my ideas arethe best.
But that's a completelydifferent issue than anger.
So we're only dealing withanger today and reality, that's
(32:33):
right.
So I think the first practicalthing is to pause.
I think the second practicalthing I could do, if I'm the one
that's angry, is use myverbiage and just communicate
what I was looking for in thatmoment, for in that moment Again
, it might have been a selfishthing that I was looking for,
but it's helpful for the otherperson that's a party to my
(32:53):
emotional response to know whatI was looking for.
They might be willing to giveit to me, because it might not
be a really horrific ask on mypart, so to speak.
But then I think we do have toteach people.
Hey, there's a way tocommunicate with your words and
your attitude and your tone ofvoice.
That's just completelyinappropriate.
(33:15):
So I'm going to take just aslight tangent on this.
In our counseling offices, weteach our clients all the time.
Part of conflict resolution islearning to fight respectfully.
I'm a fan of couples fighting.
I'm not a fan of them tearingeach other down when they do it,
and so we teach them listen.
(33:37):
You have to use words thataffirm the person.
You're not allowed to use wordsthat don't.
You have to use a tone of voicethat shows respect.
You're not allowed to use tonesof voice that don't.
And so, in my anger.
If I'm already trying to patterngood communication, I think a
third practical thing to do isfor people to realize I have to.
(33:59):
I'm not allowed to use certainwords when I'm angry.
Those are just off limits.
I might normally want to usethem.
I'm actually not allowed.
It's disrespectful to Stacy orKitty or Amy when I use those
words, and so I'm not allowed todo that, it doesn't matter how
angry I am.
Now, again, that takesdiscipline.
(34:19):
But doesn't all relationshiptake discipline?
Aren't the best relationshipsin our lives, the ones that
we're investing time and effortinto?
Well, that's discipline, and soI think it's a skill worthwhile
for us to learn and for us toteach other people and for us to
practice so that we just becomepeople who, even in our anger,
(34:43):
well at least we're stillrespectful and kind.
We're not decimating each other, right?
I don't thinkimating each otherRight.
I don't think that's too muchto ask.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
I think we're smart enough to learn that we should
be.
We should be.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
Yeah.
So I'm just curious.
I work by myself, you knowpretty much.
I mean, I'm in a sales position.
I'm just really curious aboutthis idea of an employer sending
an employee to counseling foranger.
Okay, Totally get this ideathat you've got to learn how to
(35:22):
express yourself in anon-threatening, non-disparaging
way.
Sure, I got to believe thatthere are situations where
people in your office or aperson that you continue to have
issues with.
There's a very good chance thatperson is in the wrong Mm-hmm.
(35:47):
So how do you counsel people?
What do you do?
How do you counsel them?
What are the phrases?
What do you say?
What is the path?
When the person you continue tohave issues with you're saying
what you're saying, you're nolonger angry.
Of course, you're not throwinganything to them, but the other
(36:10):
person just doesn't care,doesn't listen, continues to
treat you poorly.
What's your suggestion to theformerly angry, reformed person
who still has to deal withsomeone who is not playing by
the same rules?
Speaker 6 (36:28):
Yeah.
So we've had plenty of clientslike that over 26 years.
They get told they're wrong.
I don't have a problem tellingyou you're wrong If you're
sitting across in a room from me, if you're paying for my time,
if you're coming because youwant help and I believe the best
(36:48):
help you need is for you to betold that you're the one that's
out of line and you need toknock it off.
I'm going to tell you that,right.
Speaker 5 (36:54):
So it doesn't come from a place of anger, no,
you're just telling it like itis Calmly.
Yes, yes, saying your opinion.
Speaker 6 (37:04):
And I'm trying, so I might be misunderstanding your
question, Amy, and if I am just,you know, re-ask.
Well, this is interesting, sokeep going, I want to hear this
so I have terminated peoplebefore because in my office I'm
patterning what I'm teaching you.
This is literally what Ibelieve I'm living this out and
(37:27):
so if I'm being calm, I'm beingrespectful and you're just
constantly barking at me,swearing at me, yelling at me,
I've got a pretty long fuse.
As a counselor I can handle awhole lot emotionally, but if I
see that pattern through two,three sessions, we're done,
(37:52):
because if I care more about youliving in healthy ways for the
sake of your relationships thanyou do, I can't help you.
So I have a really frankconversation and I just tell
them listen, everybody elseactually isn't the problem, you
are the problem.
And you're the problem becauseit seems to me like you believe
you're actually right andeverybody else is wrong.
(38:14):
That's arrogance and it's a lackof humility.
And as long as you stay there,not only can I not help you, but
you are doomed to continue tosever every relationship in your
life, because healthy peoplewill not stay in relationships
like that.
It's not because we believethat person is toxic.
(38:35):
It's not because I believe thatI'm not allowed to be
mistreated.
I understand I'm going to bemistreated.
I also understand I have thefreedom to go.
I don't actually have tovolunteer for it.
That's, that's not smart,that's not wise and and I want
you to be encouraged to yourabsolute best potential.
(38:57):
And I know you can berespectful, I know you can be
calm.
So if you're going to refuse todo that, trust me, deanna's not
the counselor for you.
We're done.
And I literally get up, I openmy door and I tell them when
they're ready to be teachable tothe multiple voices in their
(39:18):
life, they're more than welcometo come back and see me.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Wow, have you ever felt unsafe?
Oh?
Speaker 6 (39:29):
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Yeah, I've got.
Speaker 6 (39:32):
I've got some really fun stories in that department.
Yeah, I've got some really funstories in that department.
Yeah, for sure, for sure I have.
Yeah.
But I'm pretty connected after26 years of counseling, so I
know lots of people who serveand protect.
I know how to dial 911.
(39:58):
I know some other things thatI'm not going to say publicly on
a podcast that I just I knowhow to handle myself and so I've
never, ever been pushed into aposition where I have felt like,
oh, my goodness, I've got tohave cops intervene, I need to
make an emergency phone call.
But there have been severalsituations over the years where
I'm like, wow, this person'svery volatile and when that
(40:20):
happens we just put out an alertto all the staff and we make
provisions for if they're everback on the property, we
preemptively strike, so to speak.
But those have not been nearlyas frequent, even with angry
people, and I think most of thetime, people who are completely
(40:41):
out of control see the damageit's creating in their lives.
They might not be teachable toit, but they see the damage, and
so when they're met with justthis presence of, I'm not moved
by that.
That doesn't intimidate me,you're actually the one with the
problem.
They have a tendency to backdown and go look for somebody
(41:04):
else to harass Not always, butoften they do.
I think it's different, amy, asyou said, in a work environment
.
I think you don't have thefreedom in a work environment
that you might in otherenvironments.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (41:19):
But hopefully the leadership in a work environment
would have a zero tolerancepolicy.
That would be ideal for leadersto take seriously respectful,
safe behavior in a workenvironment.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Yeah, so obviously there are.
It is.
They can make therecommendation that the person
seeks counseling and thatdoesn't break.
You know that's.
That's okay with humanresources.
That was the first thing thatcame to my mind when you said
(41:54):
that sometimes clients arereferred from an employer, right
oh?
Speaker 6 (42:01):
Again, they can't be forced Right.
But if a boss is like, hey,listen, we've written you up
three times.
Yeah, now we're in a positionwhere we might have to be more
aggressive with you, based onyou know the operating policy in
your handbook, here's whatwe're recommending.
We'd like to encourage you togo to counseling.
Lots of times the corporationsin this area have a fund and
(42:25):
they pay for it.
Okay, they cover those costs.
They consider them mentalhealth costs.
They consider them notworkman's comp, but it comes out
of a fund similar to that thatthey just have sitting there as
a way of serving their employeeswell.
And again, you can't make themcome, but you can strongly
(42:47):
encourage it, particularly ifthis person has a pattern that
they've already been written upfor in their place of work.
And lots of times people aremore than willing to come.
We like our jobs, we want ourjobs, we value our jobs, and if
you've got a boss who caresenough about you to offer mental
(43:07):
health care to you, you've gotto be pretty foolish to not take
advantage of that.
Speaker 5 (43:16):
Right when, and this might be a hard question to
answer.
But what?
How would you rank the?
You know anger as opposed toother issues that you counsel?
As far as you know the, thebigger issues to the I don't
(43:38):
know how I want to say it.
You know what do you counselthe most on.
You know, oh, okay, you knowwhat I mean, like what's the?
Biggest issue down to Sure, orwhat does everyone see the most?
Speaker 6 (43:53):
I would say myself personally, there are nine of us
in the center that counsel.
I would say myself personally,there are nine of us in the
center that council.
I would say I see a majority ofadultery.
So I'm going to widen that termto mean a wide range of sexual
(44:16):
misconduct on the part of one ofthe spouses.
I counsel a large amount ofthat.
I counsel a large amount ofdepression and anxiety and I
counsel a large I don't.
Yeah, I'm not sure why this ishappening now I, over the last
(44:40):
three years, have seen adramatic increase in the amount
of parents of adult children whoare coming in because their
adult children are severingrelationships with them For a
variety of reasons.
Yeah, usually differences ofopinion.
(45:00):
You know, the mom and dad areentrenched in a view,
politically or morally or intheir faith, and the adult child
who's in their twenties,thirties or forties doesn't hold
that view, hasn't held thatview, and it just creates so
much conflict that the adultchild's like listen, I'm done,
(45:21):
I'm not having a relationshipwith you, and that's really
devastating to the parents.
Speaker 4 (45:26):
So I, I'm sorry Go ahead, no go ahead.
Is the root of that?
A lack of respect for the otherperson's opinion Is the root of
that?
Speaker 6 (45:35):
a lack of respect for the other person's opinion?
Oh for sure, yeah.
And do we live in America rightnow?
Do we see that anywhere else?
Is that trending anywhere else?
Goodness, as a culture, we justdon't respect other people's
different viewpoints.
And I'm not talking aboutagreement.
(45:56):
I understand that between thefour of us we're going to have a
wide range of differentviewpoints and I'm not expecting
the three of you to agree withme on hardly any of them.
Like we're adults, we're notgoing to agree, right?
I'm not talking about agreement.
I just mean the bare minimumhuman respect.
Yeah, I totally agree with that, amy.
I mean the bare minimum humanrespect.
(46:17):
Yeah, I totally agree with that, amy.
We've lost the mature, kind,respectful ability to disagree
with somebody and still valuethem, and that is a respect
issue.
Now, I think it's possible.
It works both ways in thosefamily dynamics.
Like I'm not blaming only theadult kids and I'm not blaming
(46:39):
only the parents.
I think it's shared, but, yeah,for sure, I think there's
there's a lack of respectingthat you have a different
viewpoint, but, goodness, Istill just adore you.
I think you're wonderful and Iwant you in my circle.
Yeah, we've lost that or we'relosing it.
Maybe I should say that yeah,and that concerns me for
(47:03):
families.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (47:05):
How, how do you not totally stress over, you know,
the, the people you'recounseling?
You know, hoping that they, youknow the, the people you're
counseling, you know hoping thatthey, you know, can improve
whatever they're trying to do?
How, how do you personally, um,you know, try to I don't know
(47:28):
if you distance yourself from itor you just know that that's
your job is, you know, not toworry about all of your, you,
all the people you're counseling, or?
Speaker 3 (47:38):
how do you not take it on?
Yeah, how do you leave work atwork?
Speaker 4 (47:42):
That's such a great question.
Speaker 6 (47:44):
That's such a great question.
I have definitely grown in that.
To answer that question, stacey, I would say the first several
years of counseling weredefinitely rough and my husband
can attest to that.
We've been married for 31 yearsand so he has seen me at the
very beginning of my career andnow kind of seasoned in my
(48:07):
career and he has said there'sbeen a dramatic shift in how I
navigate what I do for a living.
I think part of it is my build.
I think I've been built tohandle hard and to handle a lot
of hard.
Well, I'm not saying that atall with arrogance.
We all have different strengthsand weaknesses and I have
(48:28):
plenty of weaknesses.
This podcast does not want togo that long to discuss those.
But one of my strengths is thatI really do handle a lot of hard
and heavy emotionally very well.
I don't experience anxiety orworry from my clients.
I don't panic when I getemergency phone calls because of
(48:53):
suicide attempts or domesticviolence.
I have a tendency to be reallycool and calm and that has
served me well over 26 years.
But I think the other thingthat serves me well is I'm
really intentional about my ownpersonal mental and emotional
(49:13):
well-being my own personalmental and emotional well-being.
I live very intentionallyduring the week in how I build
relationship with people.
Steve and I have a very strongmarriage that we work really
hard to maintain its strength,because that helps me then all
week long as I carry otherpeople's heavy and hard.
(49:34):
I've got a good group offriends who are just their life
giving and we do these types ofthings together.
No, not podcasts.
But, we're just doing lifetogether and we're supporting
one another and we're caring forone another.
I do a lot of reading and a lotof outdoor activity and a lot
(49:58):
of outdoor activity, and so,yeah, I think I'm probably
pretty intentional about my ownemotional well-being and mental
health, and I think part of thereason I am is because I
regularly struggle and wrestlewith depression myself.
I have a tendency to rollpretty low emotionally, and so,
in order to maintain a reallygood, healthy view of life and
(50:22):
movement through life even in myseasons of depression, that
ongoing intentionality everyweek has helped tremendously.
So, yeah, I think most of it'sjust the build.
Speaker 3 (50:35):
I can handle a lot of hard and ugly wow, well, um, I,
deanna, I just am so impressedby you.
You are just so professionaland this conversation, your,
your clients are lucky to haveyou.
Speaker 6 (50:56):
Thank you.
That's really kind of you tosay.
Speaker 3 (50:58):
Thank you you do.
It's so needed.
And, yeah, I love that we cantalk about mental health and our
own.
I mean, I've been on anantidepressant for I don't know
how many years many and you knowpeople can say that and it's
not like what.
Yeah, you know what.
Speaker 6 (51:19):
It's a real gift the openness that we have today to
talk about that.
Speaker 5 (51:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
Wow, I feel like we could talk.
We could talk forever.
I know right and have me over.
Speaker 6 (51:36):
Let's do coffee.
Just have me over, ladies.
I'd like to hear all yourstories.
I love to listen.
It'd be great.
Speaker 3 (51:44):
And you know there are always questions that I'm
like okay, tell me a little bitabout right, whereas we want the
juicy stuff too um, where is we?
Speaker 4 (52:00):
we want the, we want the juicy stuff too.
Yeah, I love it when people sayI don't, um, I don't like to
participate in drama, but Idon't mind hearing about it yes,
exactly.
Speaker 6 (52:08):
Oh, counselors know lots of drama.
I bet.
Speaker 5 (52:12):
That's the drama.
Speaker 4 (52:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (52:14):
Yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (52:17):
Wow.
Well, thank you so much forsharing this, and you know what
we um.
We should probably dig intosome of these other topics as
well, so, if you're open to it,we'd love to have you back
another time.
Speaker 6 (52:32):
Oh, I would love that I'd be honored Great.
Speaker 5 (52:34):
We appreciate the ask .
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 6 (52:35):
Yeah, I would love that I'd be honored.
I really appreciate the ask.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 5 (52:38):
Yeah, perfect, thank you.
Speaker 3 (52:41):
Any parting, any other parting thoughts, stacey
or Amy?
Does anybody have a shot?
So, deanna, one of the thingsthat we do, sometimes at the end
of a show, we have a, a shotwhich is maybe a suggestion for
people, um, something that wemight have come upon earlier in
the week that we that we want toshare sometimes we have and
(53:03):
sometimes we don't.
Yeah, I've got nothing well,let me tell you what I was just
google searching before wejumped on here today, because
this is also a pretty regulartopic what's in your Google
search?
Speaker 6 (53:21):
That episode was great.
By the way, I loved thatepisode.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
I was all over that episode.
You're like, ooh, what's inmine and this just popped up on
my socials.
So somebody that I follow shewas showing how she has
basically created a salad bar inher refrigerator crisper drawer
.
Speaker 4 (53:45):
I saw that, I saw that.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
Brilliant, I know.
And so I'm like looking at allof these little compartments and
she's got you know all theveggies prepped and the lettuces
washed and spun.
And so I'm like, looking at allof these little compartments
and she's got you know all theveggies prepped and the lettuces
washed and spun, and so you canliterally pull that drawer out
and you can, you know, makeyourself a salad bar.
Speaker 6 (54:05):
That's a great idea.
Speaker 3 (54:07):
Yes, so I was searching, I was looking on
Amazon to find all of thoselittle Containers, all of those
little um containers, thoselittle you know bpa container
things that I can fit in,because my, we have a fairly new
refrigerator.
Refrigerator it's got thefrench doors that open and then
you've got the big drawer thatpulls out and I'm like I can
(54:29):
organize that better.
Yes, we so want to eat better,we want to do meal prepping and
all of that kind of stuff and itjust we talk about it forever
and we, uh, we it, I don't getit done I think I think of all
the things that you can mealprep, the hardest to make it
good is a salad, is a salad.
Speaker 4 (54:50):
Salad out is a hundred percent better I don't
know why that is but that's true.
I don't know if it's thechilled plates, I don't know.
Yes, you know, but dang, yeah,making a salad at home is always
like okay, fine.
Speaker 5 (55:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (55:08):
Work on that Kitty.
Speaker 5 (55:10):
Yeah, work on that, kitty, and report back.
Okay, all right, I am, I'mgoing to work on that kitty and
report back.
Speaker 3 (55:14):
All right, I am, I'm going to work on that, because
poor Bill, every day, so hecomes home for lunch every day
and he's eaten the same thingfor years Lunch meat.
You know lunch, meat and cheeseFor years.
Like we can do better, so weneed suggestions.
(55:36):
So, for our listeners andviewers, um, we're we're putting
lots of posts out over onfacebook.
Maybe this is this would be agood question over the next week
.
Yeah, what do you guys eat?
What do you eat?
Because there are a lot ofpeople who are very disciplined
about their menu that they havelined up for the week.
They rotate things in and out.
(55:57):
Some people are really, reallygood at that, so I would love
for somebody to share that withus if that is their strong suit.
Yeah, oh, there we go.
That would be good.
Help us out, deanna, stay withus.
Um, when we uh roll the musichere, just stay with us and
we'll all come togetherbackstage.
So, all right.
(56:19):
Well, thank you guys.
Good to have a conversationagain.
We'll see you all next week.
Speaker 5 (56:25):
Cheers, cheers, bye, cheers, cheers, bye-bye, bye,
bye.
All right, woo, bye-bye.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
Bye that wild.
Here I go.
Here I go, coming.
I can't ever stop.
I'm a tour de force running.
Get me to the top.
I don't need an invitation.
I'm about to start acelebration.
Let me in.
Brought a good time for somefriends.
Turn it up loud past 10.
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