July 11, 2022 • 48 mins
Oh, the highs and lows of being a person who is neurodivergent! Or loving someone who is… This week Kat and Val laugh their way through a discussion about the superpowers that come with having AHDH as well as the major challenges/ Kryptonite. Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria (RSD), ranks high as a challenge and our hosts share all about what has helped them navigate RDS in all their interpersonal relationships. As always, this episode is a fun, passionate, informative and potentially helpful ride!
*This podcast is for entertainment purposes only
Find us on Instagram:
Kat and Val Podcast
Val's offerings:
So This is Love Club
Reset Yourself for Love Program
Instagram So This is Love Club
Kat's offerings:
Fat Liberation Art -Fat Mystic Etsy Shop
Instagram Fat_Mystic_Art
Additional resources/definitions referenced in most episodes:
Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria
Jill Johnson Young- grief talker
Five Stages of Grief
Intuitive eating.org
NAAFA National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance
Tell Me I'm Fat - This American Life
Prentis Hemphill
Vitamin D gummies!!!!!!
Adrienne Maree Brown
Pleasure Activism; The Politics of Feeling Good
Come as You Are: The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life
Book by Emily Nagoski
Attached - Book by Amir Levine and Rachel S. F. Heller
Understanding Dopamine: Love Hormones And The Brain
Enneagram
The Four Tendencies
Myers Briggs Personality Profiles
Highly Sensitive People (HSP)
Fat Liberation Movement
Lipedema
Exvangelical/deconstructing from Christianity
ADHD
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Val (00:05):
You're listening to three questions with Katten, Val I'm
Kat and I'm bow.
We've been friends for over 20years.
Thousands of therapists and catsand artists.
We're both great talkers.
And we're both XFN delicacy whoused to pastor gay.
Now we both have chronicillnesses.
We think we're fuckinghilarious.
Kat (00:34):
Hi.
Val (00:35):
hello friends.
Kat (00:42):
Val, what did you just say to me?
Val (00:45):
You asked me, does that sound good?
And I said, I'm not sure.
I know what you're saying, whichI didn't was funny.
Kat (00:54):
but I guess, well, because
Val (00:56):
the way I said is what
Kat (01:00):
the way I said it, oh my gosh, we're sitting here and
we're trying our best you guys,you know, but we're human too.
We're having like an off fuckingday
Val (01:10):
what the fuck is happening.
Kat (01:11):
that was telling me, like trying to access vocabulary.
Words is hard.
We like to show up with you allbeing happy and fun, having fun
stories.
Yeah.
We love being here with you all,but yeah, we're just human too.
We're doing our best.
Some days are hard.
Yeah, And then sometimes maybewe get dressed up on a hard day.
Do you ever do that?
(01:31):
I almost never do that.
But I did get cute for youtoday.
Val (01:35):
You sure did.
Kat (01:37):
I know I did.
I'm wearing this like one piece,like what did we decide?
This is called Fran.
Oh yeah.
I don't usually like Palmthings, but this is like so
green and so Palmy it's likegreen and black and it's like a
one piece sort of summary,
Val (01:54):
jumpsuit.
Oh, jump It's a jumpsuit
Kat (01:56):
rayon.
It's really breezy.
I like Okay.
But I was talking shit becauseit's annoying, right?
Because, so this is, it comes inthe size.
It fits on my body.
Mm-hmm but there's no zippers.
There's no snaps.
And so they did a great jobsizing it to get over my leg.
Very generous belly and hips.
thank you.
But then like the top partyou're supposed to like stand
(02:18):
into it.
Like the, the neck bit of it isnot fucking big enough for my
widest part of my body.
And so it's just, it's a fuckingoversight is what it is, but I'm
mad at them.
I'm like, Hey fuckers.
So I had to cut the straps andthen tie them.
So I have two knots, like alittle kid.
Remember those little kidoutfits that you'd, you have
little knots on'em babies.
I know, but they were stretchingenough.
(02:39):
You get in and out of'em withthe knots tied and not me.
I go pee.
I gotta like undo a knot, undo aknot, take the whole thing down.
It's a pain in the
Val (02:46):
Well, jumpsuits.
Yes.
I was telling you about this,me, my SAR that was like, yeah,
everyone will compliment you ona jumpsuit, but then when you
have to go to the bathroom,you're just naked in alone with
your choices.
Yeah.
You're alone in a bathroom stallwith your choices.
Kat (03:07):
That's true.
It's so true.
But it jumpsuit looks amazing.
I love a
Val (03:10):
all funny games until you're you're like practically
naked and then people from othercountries are like, why do your
bathrooms have like
Kat (03:17):
pizza
Val (03:19):
like, it's not a thing in other countries.
Yes.
But I do.
I do love a good jumpsuit.
I was wearing one the othernight and.
Kat (03:26):
yeah,
Val (03:27):
looking pretty good in it.
Kat (03:28):
I bet.
Val (03:28):
mean, and you're hot.
Well,
Kat (03:32):
husband
Val (03:33):
and I had a date cuz he was leaving again.
and had this, outfit on thatactually a friend like gifted
him.
So he's like sending pictures inthe group chat and
Kat (03:42):
Oh yeah.
I saw this picture.
We'll have to post it.
He looked very
Val (03:45):
he's got his Ray vans on, he was looking hot.
he's handsome and
Kat (03:49):
he like
Val (03:49):
like cleans up, well, He was peacocking.
If you have listened to some ofthe earlier episodes and okay.
So we're
Kat (03:55):
at there
Val (03:56):
all of a sudden, you know, if we're in the bay area, when
the sun goes down or goes behinda tree, it's like a 20 to 30
degree drop.
So all of a sudden he's got thislike preppy sweater.
Oh, he's
Kat (04:05):
like I know.
Yeah.
He looks expensive.
Val (04:11):
it was
Kat (04:12):
expensive.
Val (04:16):
he, stands up at dinner and we're like eating on the street
at this like Italian bistro, allthese like older couples around
everyone just And he, he standsup and he says oh, this is the
moment everyone's been waitingfor.
For me to put my sweater on andI was like, what?
He's like, yeah, everyone'swaiting for me to put this
Kat (04:38):
sweater
Val (04:38):
on.
And I was like, no one caresabout your sweater.
and I was telling my friend oneof my best friends Rai's twin,
who of course is also a peacock,cuz they're twins.
She was like, amiga why are youbeing so mean to him?
Like, why couldn't you just lethim think everybody wanted
here's what?
And I'm like, I always soundlike the asshole, but he had
(05:00):
already asked me like 15 timesactually he made me tell him cuz
he's like, am I cute?
Am I cute?
Tell me, am I cute?
Like 15 times already?
So I'm like, yes, you are cute.
You're hot.
Look at you.
Wow.
Like, like I'm giving himeverything.
Meanwhile, I had to ask him, butwhat about me?
See.
(05:20):
That was her response
Kat (05:22):
too.
Yeah
Val (05:23):
you about that in a minute.
But I was like, look I said Iwas concerned.
Was he having a break withreality?
Nobody wanted to see, They don'tcare about his preppies.
I was concerned.
Come back to reality.
No one cares about your fuckingsweater.
That's the hyperfocus.
(05:44):
That's why people with ADHD.
Sometimes they think theirassholes, everything is about
themselves.
Like their hyperfocus is like,this outfit is so
Kat (05:52):
amazing.
Val (05:53):
Everybody must be looking at me so funny
Kat (05:55):
That's so
Val (05:56):
and thinking of my other.
So,
Kat (05:58):
Oh my
Val (05:58):
my friend was like, okay, Aika I get it.
But she, she had the samereaction you did.
She's like, well, where are thepictures of you?
And I'm like, he took one, buthe's really not a good
photographer.
I had to ask him, but what abouttell me about how good I look.
I had just done my hair.
My eyes look good.
Kat (06:14):
clean up real good.
Val (06:16):
like, look at me if he wasn't my brother, I'd be like,
look, I can get you some other
Kat (06:19):
dude
Val (06:20):
You need to be out with some men who treat you better.
Kat (06:23):
men or queer people.
the
Val (06:28):
spectrum of the gender, the gender spectrum,
Kat (06:31):
Other human beings would be like, damn Val damn
Val (06:35):
speaking of other human beings.
So we're walking down the streetafter dinner, holding hands and
this lovely older woman stops.
Takes off her mask and is like,are you guys models?
Kat (06:50):
And you know
Val (06:51):
and you know how, like someone just stops you on the
street.
You kind of are like, do I needto just keep walking?
Is this a trap?
I don't know.
right, Like, I don't know is, soI just, you know, you just kind
of, is this a
Kat (07:02):
trap
Val (07:05):
Oh, that's so sad.
Our society is like that rightnow.
I was like, help.
Is this a trip?
So I kind of didn't fully stop,but then of course she's like,
Hey, are you guys, models?
And then I was like, oh, Iguess, I guess I have to
Kat (07:18):
And I was like oh guess I have to stop.
I guess I have to engage withthis stranger who thinks I'm a
fucking model.
Val (07:23):
Oh, she said, oh, you guys are so beautiful.
And then I was like, thank youso much.
And the moral of the story israp was right.
Everyone does sweater.
OK.
Kat (07:37):
good job Murphy.
Oh my God.
Okay.
Okay.
So you're saying that's maybe anADHD thing.
Right?
And so I was like, oh fuck.
I have to confess because Idon't necessarily think people
are like waiting for my costumechange yesterday Yeah.
But I do think that everybodyfinds me charming was like, I am
delighting everybody.
Val (07:59):
I think it's beautiful and wonderful.
And like, as long as it's rootedin some sort of reality, I don't
see a problem with it.
Kat (08:08):
well, the truth is I have met people who do not find me
charming.
Oh.
But I'm always shocked.
I'm always shocked.
It is
Val (08:14):
Shocked.
that's really funny.
Well, you know, what's funny.
I always say about rap that hewill not accept that people
don't like
Kat (08:23):
it unless you piss
Val (08:24):
off and then it's fuck you.
Kat (08:27):
you're
Val (08:28):
dead to me dead to me.
Right?
If not, I'm like, no, no, hedoesn't give you a you will like
Kat (08:34):
it Right right right
Val (08:35):
in charge of
Kat (08:35):
that.
he's in charge of that.
He's So that's
Val (08:38):
Okay.
So his twin, was like, oh,amiga.
Yeah.
Is that an ADHD thing to like,just be thinking that about
yourself?
So she just asked me just likeyou
Kat (08:47):
asked me.
Yeah.
Val (08:48):
I was like, well, I think this focus on self.
I think the hyperfocus, I thinkit's like blinders, but with
mirrors they're mirroredblinders, okay, so now I'm
talking about three people in mylife with ADHD that are very
focused on their appearance.
our parents and how fuckingcharming they
Kat (09:07):
So
Val (09:07):
I don't know.
we told you this was not foreducational purposes, just for
entertainment.
This is not like a set upresearch.
You know, I don't have my blindcontrols here.
Kat (09:20):
but
Val (09:22):
I wanna say dear lovely humans, whether you are a
peacock with ADHD or justanother lovely bird with ADHD
Kat (09:33):
another lovely
Val (09:34):
And someone has called you selfish and that's hurt and
caused you shame.
There's lots of symptoms thatmaybe kind of make it seem like,
but oh, I read these beautifulthings that said the
Kat (09:50):
the
Val (09:50):
the focus on the self in ADHD does not Deno, selfishness,
like not thinking of others.
Right.
I think it's just a hyper focuson self and then like oh yeah.
there's someone else here.
I find myself saying that to myhusband a lot, excuse me.
Hello?
I'm here too.
Hello?
Kat (10:09):
Oh my God.
Well, yeah, no, I hear all thattoo.
And maybe it's because like, ifyou have ADHD, you start to
recognize the norm.
neurotypical, and you feel likethe odd one out, you're sort of
more aware of cause you're awareof differences.
Yeah.
And that could be why you, therewas a little more like and then
I love the puzzle trying to
Val (10:31):
Mm-hmm
Kat (10:31):
mm-hmm and I do like myself.
I think I'm charming as fuck.
Val (10:35):
fuck.
You are charming.
You are charming.
Do we, is it safe to talk aboutthat as a, as a, as a coping
skill for ADHD?
Kat (10:43):
Oh, well, I mean, is a coping me it's it's a coping
skill for like my family oforigin.
Val (10:48):
Yeah.
you know what I mean?
Like, sure
Kat (10:50):
it ADHD or is it trauma?
We've
Val (10:52):
drama or we've talked about how, like being a person in a
larger
Kat (10:58):
Yeah.
Val (10:58):
To be more acceptable being the good fatty, like I sent you
something once that's like,okay.
Did I inherit this, charmingpersonality from my family of
origin?
Or did I develop this?
Because I knew that I wasn't thepeacock, actually Amy poll, the
comedian actress.
She, wrote about that in herbook.
Kat (11:17):
I read her book, her audio.
Book's so good.
By the way it's called.
Yes, please.
Yeah.
Val (11:20):
Yes.
Oh, good memory.
So lots of times,
Kat (11:23):
cuz I hyper focus on shit.
Sometimes she reads me to sleepat night, talking about SNL
days.
It's delightful.
Val (11:30):
valley,
Kat (11:32):
that's long time I know go
Val (11:35):
to go to sleep.
Cat has our podcast at AV andrepeat,
Kat (11:38):
I don't go to sleep, listening to us cuz I don't fall
asleep to it.
Cause I'm so interesting.
Val (11:45):
you're charming yourself.
You fucker
Kat (11:50):
and I think you're wise.
Isn't interesting too.
So.
Val (11:53):
What about charming?
Kat (11:54):
Yes.
Charming.
And so funny, you even know howfunny you were.
Val (12:02):
I'm like cat.
Do other people think I'm asfunny as I think I am like,
maybe not everyone.
I mean, not for everybody
Kat (12:09):
oh, cuz you're like in touch with reality.
No grandiose self-assessmenthere.
Val (12:18):
You're like in touch with reality.
Yes, exactly.
Thank you.
Ooh, that's interesting.
Yeah, no grandiosity.
I'm staying away fromgrandiosity, cuz that, that gets
you in trouble or maybe itdoesn't.
Maybe it makes you famous.
I don't know.
Kat (12:30):
Right.
Who fuck knows.
We dunno.
We're just
Val (12:33):
we dunno.
Okay.
There, there are some thingsthat I think do like that.
I think they easily distracted.
Right.
Or getting back to why, why doesit seem like a person with ADHD
comes across that way or theinterrupting.
Yeah.
You are actually very good atthat.
I don't feel like you interruptme often.
Kat (12:53):
Oh, well my ex-husband, it would drive him crazy.
He was like, you interrupt allthe time and he, you know,
remember you talk about like,it's the story you tell.
Yeah.
And like he was like a slowtalker and so he'd be like
trying to make an elaboratepoint.
And he would like use a lot ofmy baseball analogies and I'd be
like bored outta my mind.
And my brain works really fast.
And so I was like, you meanthis?
(13:13):
And he'd be mad at me.
Yeah.
So I do, but I think in most myrelationships people understand
it as like collaborativeinterrupting.
Yeah.
Where I'm not interrupting tochange the subject.
Yeah.
I'm just like, oh yeah.
And this I, yes.
And I, yes.
And like a
Val (13:29):
Yeah.
Well I think you and RAI, myhusband are on the same page
where my stories take too
Kat (13:35):
him
Val (13:36):
Oh.
Or my, responses, or he's like,I already know what you're
Kat (13:38):
gonna say.
Val (13:39):
I fuck you.
No, you don't.
Because your emotional tell justis not.
I enough to understand me.
You have no fucking idea whatI'm gonna say,
Kat (13:48):
say see.
And I'm sure that I do know, cuzI do have high emotional
intelligence
Val (13:52):
Exactly.
And I'm not telling him likelong baseball analogies, but I'm
like, sir, can I please finish athought?
And then with my chronic illnessand the brain fog, I'm like, oh
fuck you.
Yeah.
Oh fuck you like stop
Kat (14:04):
dressing me.
Val (14:06):
Oh.
And then we have friends whoalso have it.
Kat (14:09):
Yeah.
And, Yeah is,
Val (14:11):
it's just wild.
I just watch it.
But I started to say to him,sir,
Kat (14:15):
sir.
You call him sir.
Huh?
Val (14:18):
it's funny and sexy.
Kat (14:20):
no, I.
I can hear it.
I see your body language, sir.
it's like, he's getting talkeddown to when you call him, sir.
It's like the opposite.
Val (14:30):
It's like, yeah, like I'm giving you an extra amount of
respect because fuck you.
Excuse me, sir.
Did the middle of my sentence.
Interrupt the beginning ofyours.
Fuck you.
So, so we do that.
Again, ADHD, not wrong.
Just
Kat (14:47):
different, just different.
Val (14:48):
why people interrupt.
Yeah.
Well number one, because yourbrain's going a mile a minute.
Okay.
I get that number two, you
Kat (14:59):
Oh that's a big one.
Val (15:00):
That is a big one.
Number three.
Kat (15:06):
like leaning in.
I'm like what's number three.
Val (15:09):
I was mad at my, I was just mad at my husband.
Kat (15:13):
I was like baited breath leaning in good number.
OK.
Number three.
OK.
Val (15:16):
Number three is ADHD
Kat (15:22):
to
Val (15:22):
Show that you are listening.
Oh.
And understanding by tellingyour own story.
Kat (15:27):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
that, well, what happens is, isthe, the like synapsis in your
brain, you're hearinginformation.
You're like, it lights up thisother thing.
You're like, this is connected.
Cuz like my brain is constantlymaking so many connections.
Yeah, And then
Val (15:41):
it's going
Kat (15:42):
participate and you wanna be like, oh yeah.
And this and this and this.
And we're like, we're likesucking in all the information
of the whole cosmos to be like,Ooh, is it all these fucking
things?
Look at all the nuance and thesoup and the messiness I love
it.
It's how my brain works.
I'm here for it.
Val (15:56):
but I did wanna tell you one
Kat (15:57):
tell me, please.
Val (15:58):
We're going back to ADHD and like this hyper focus.
That is an ADHD, superpower.
Yeah.
And getting your needs met.
The other day.
We had company.
And I thought that we were gonnabe like showing them around
like, ma I wish I could playpickleball, but probably not my
husband comes in and says, Wellno, they just wanna like, stay
around the house and go localtoday.
I'm like, I'm gonna go topickleball.
It starts soon.
Right.
(16:18):
He's like, okay, great.
Just drop us off and we'll goget some breakfast somewhere.
I'm like, okay, fine.
And I felt like I was in thezone, get ready.
And then I go into the car andthen he comes out, oh, they're
not ready yet.
Just go to pick a ball.
But we only have one car and I'mlike, are you sure?
He's like, yeah.
Okay.
And then I'm driving away.
And I, I was like, oh, is thiswhat hyperfocus feels
Kat (16:36):
like?
Val (16:37):
Not that I've never like really focused in on something,
but I was like, oh, I got sweptaway with, this was my need.
And then of course, cuz like Iwanna be a good host and not
make his friends feel bad.
I'm like, was that okay?
And then I was like, oh thanksbabe.
For like letting me go.
And of course, cuz that's how heoperates.
He's like, oh yeah.
I think you were here at ourhouse when we were having a
(16:58):
great time.
There was even like a dancebattle.
Underwear was coming off.
You'll have to go find that inwhatever episode that was.
Kat (17:05):
Oh my God.
That sounds way worse than itwas.
Okay.
Keep going.
You love to be shocking.
And then like back away andpretend to be innocent.
Fuck you, Val.
Fuck you.
Okay, go on.
Motherfucker's like all of
Val (17:17):
all of a sudden Rai's like, gotta go.
My F1 race was on, and wentupstairs and ignored the company
that we had until everyone wasleaving.
And he comes down by see ya.
What a selfish, rudemotherfucker.
Oh.
But it was just him.
He loves F1 racing.
He is a little bit of ahyperfocus on sports.
Kat (17:35):
But I didn't interpret that as rude.
That didn't seem rude to
Val (17:37):
Well, you were high as
Kat (17:38):
Oh, yeah.
that's funny.
Val (17:43):
Right.
Not wrong, but different.
Cuz I can't change that from out
Kat (17:46):
of him.
Yeah
Val (17:47):
And so what he wants to go watch a race upstairs.
Fine.
Wow.
Okay.
Just focus on your own needs,dude.
I
Kat (17:52):
yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah
Val (17:53):
Fine.
But I had actually experiencedit and just gonna kind of get
swept up in this, and then ohyeah.
There's people over So I don'tknow.
I just felt like that was good.
Mm-hmm because when Iexperienced
Kat (18:04):
Yeah
Val (18:05):
I think I can understand it
Kat (18:06):
better Sure Of course.
Val (18:08):
I was like, oh, okay.
This is what it, this is what itfeels like to just let
everything fall and your needsare getting
Kat (18:16):
met.
Yeah And trust that everything'sgonna work out for the other
people, but your job and yourresponsibilities, do the thing
that you need to do and stayfocused on like centering
yourself.
I do think it could be somerelation to ADHD, but you add in
the dynamic of like how we'resocialized yeah.
As fem people in the world.
Yeah.
And it's a very different thing.
Sure.
We're like constantly factoringin
Val (18:36):
of others.
Kat (18:37):
was just talking to my other friend, we're talking
about like dating and stuff likethis and that we're discussing,
like they're trying to makeplans for the holidays I
realized as they were talking.
Cause they were talking to asignificant, other about maybe
holiday plans.
And I was like, oh my God, I dothat all the time where I'm
like, you tell me what yourneeds are.
And I will orient myself aroundRight.
(18:57):
As opposed to what you justexperienced was like, no, I'm
gonna like put my desire front.
And then you guys can likeorganize yourselves around what
I have centered.
Right.
Your desire to go do pickleball.
And I was like, whoa, that evenfor me, that feels a little
uncomfortable.
I don't do Unless I literally amby myself and then I will do
that.
You know what I mean?
Well,
Val (19:16):
what was interesting was he was totally okay with it.
Yeah.
I think I probably didn't trustthat he knew the implications
cuz like we don't have anothercar.
So like was either they gonnaUber?
Are they gonna walk?
Are they gonna just stay homethey're adults.
But I felt very uncomfortablethe whole drive out of like our
little area.
Cause sometimes I, I think hesays yes to things also.
(19:37):
Maybe the ADHD, not likethinking ahead.
Sure, sure.
And I wanna make sure, I feellike it's kind of unfair right.
Like his brain, isn't justnaturally thinking of all the
consequences of saying yes.
And so I wanna help with that.
And also he's way more flexibleand adaptable
Kat (19:54):
the thing.
I was just gonna say that whenyou have like I do like HES,
like you just are like presentin the moments adapt like
Val (20:01):
that's the second adaptable.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, so superpowers, hyperfocusand adaptability, And the third
one let's say is let's say,let's say we'll just
Kat (20:14):
we'll just make shit up.
It was
Val (20:15):
No, yes.
We're making this shit up.
Let's say that it is the abilityto move on.
Let's something roll off yourback.
Oh, all the friends that I havethat have ADHD.
Yeah.
Can really just let stuff rolloff their back for the most
part.
Although.
When RAI puts his heels in aforget
Kat (20:32):
I know, see that's the paradox though.
Cuz they're like, oh, this ishow we are.
Oh, and there's the oppositetoo.
Cuz it's a paradox.
Val (20:38):
cause it's a paradox.
Yeah.
Kat (20:39):
something's will roll off your back.
But then other things you're
Val (20:41):
you're dead to
Kat (20:42):
triggered rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria
motherfucker.
Val (20:47):
Yes.
Maybe that's like thekryptonite.
I mean, cuz come on.
I grew up in the wonder womanera.
Love a good superhero analogy.
I have a colleague that I wastalking about the podcast and
all the ADHD and I'm like, man,another person in my life with
it.
And he's like, you're just likeassembling your and I'm like
Avengers my husband forced me towatch every
Kat (21:08):
single
Val (21:09):
movie during, during the pandemic in, in the
chronological order.
Oh my gosh.
Not the order that they
Kat (21:15):
came No I understand.
I understand what you're sayingIt's
Val (21:18):
cuz your son probably did
Kat (21:19):
your son brought did your son.
Yes.
How did you know that?
That literally that yes, yes.
Yeah.
Val (21:23):
all the godfather movies too.
I hadn't watched those.
I so anyway, he's like, you'rejust assembling your Avengers.
I'm like, I totally am.
And maybe I love the intensitytoo.
Yeah.
So the kryptonite, I think isthe rejection sensitivity,
dysphoria,
Kat (21:38):
Oh, right.
So you've ADHD, there's somesuperpowers, but there's still a
kryptonite.
Val (21:42):
I think the kryptonite
Kat (21:43):
rejection sensitivity, dysphoria.
And this is where you perceiveor experience rejection.
It can be real or perceived.
Right.
And that's where, what thatmeans is you've just like
decided they've been, you know,they're rejecting you, even if
that's not their intent, butwhether or not it's their
intent, it hurts like amotherfucker.
Val (22:01):
Yes.
Even the fear of it, I would saytoo, the anticipation of it.
Yeah.
Right.
Real imagine or anticipated,right.
Feared.
Kat (22:10):
Ooh, cryp tonight.
Val (22:12):
Cause then what does that bring?
Shame?
Yeah.
Fucking
Kat (22:15):
Well, and then I think too.
Yeah, fuck you.
Shame.
Yeah.
But then again, human beingswere built to be social, right?
deeply reliant on one anotherAnd so to be rejected deeply
painful.
Val (22:30):
It is.
but then like, how do you defeat
Kat (22:32):
How do you it.
Yeah.
Val (22:35):
about it with a, safe person, right?
Yes.
And then the shame dissipates,that's how you defeat shame.
Kat (22:40):
I think you're absolutely right.
And I think in that process too,you can learn how to discharge
shame yourself by offeringyourself compassion.
Val (22:48):
Sure.
Talking to yourself as you woulda good friend, if this good
friend told you the same thing.
Kat (22:53):
Absolutely.
Or sometimes like as how youwould talk to a child.
Right.
All those things.
We all need to be nicer to
Val (23:02):
We do.
And I think that we've talked inan earlier episode that shame
makes us do kind of like weirdthings when we're feeling
Kat (23:08):
shame Oh
Val (23:08):
we act out or, the reactions that come, if you're
feeling shame, like again, Ithink the way we're gendered,
right?
Oh, also I should probably saywe haven't done this in a while,
but like UHI my husband hasgiven full consent to whatever,
to whatever I wanna talk about.
He trust me.
So we'll have his, yes, Iconsent.
Come on
Rafick (23:27):
Yes, I consent.
Kat (23:29):
Well, wait, let me tell you this, because I, you know, I
continue to date people.
And so like, I was meeting upwith someone who I I'm, I often
will like, oh, you should listento podcast.
You know, because like, that'show I'm get our numbers up
Val (23:39):
half of our listeners are no
Kat (23:42):
people I'm trying to go and dates with anyway.
And they were like, am I gonnaend up on the podcast?
I was like,
Val (23:47):
really fuck around to find out, fuck around and find out
Kat (23:53):
we just people.
Val (23:56):
that's it people.
Kat (23:57):
You gotta go back to your story.
What was your story about we'velost it.
It
Val (24:00):
Oh, oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah because for people who havebeen socialized as males, anger
is an acceptable, probably oneof the only acceptable emotions,
and it's so wild that anger isthe emotion that's allowed.
Right.
I mean, for all the reasons wecould think about in the
patriarchy, right.
Because can be intimidating.
Sure.
It's it's not a vulnerable
Kat (24:20):
Yeah You're saying that shame and
Val (24:25):
And I think, well, the reaction, yeah.
Like you think you're gonna berejected or you're you're bad or
you're not good.
Ooh.
Yeah.
We had a fight about I wastrying to be like stop using my
brain so much.
Right.
That's something that in earlierepisodes I talk about you borrow
my brain all the time.
You gotta do some of thatyourself, right?
Yes.
And so that's a good shorthandfor that.
And so I was trying to get himan assistant, I mean, cuz he
(24:48):
runs his own company.
Right.
And he was just acting superweird about it.
Super weird.
And then I was angry too.
And he was mad like, like, likeshutting me down.
Like I don't want you in anypart of this business anymore.
I wish you would never doanything in this business again.
(25:09):
Right.
Good thing.
He's never gonna
Kat (25:10):
this
Val (25:11):
to this, but it is exactly what happened.
Get your own podcast, buddy, ifyou, wanna tell your side of
this
Kat (25:17):
the story,
Val (25:18):
but I was like, whoa, where's this anger coming from?
And he was so resistant
Kat (25:23):
to it Yeah.
Val (25:23):
We should do a whole episode on resistance.
Kat (25:25):
let's do that sometime.
Val (25:29):
and so I was like, damn, like you are getting so angry at
me.
And I think it was shame and Ieven said all the things KA, I'm
like, look.
I know this is harder for you.
I know this is not your favoritething, you know, the numbers,
the books.
I want to make your life easier,but I can no longer have this
pressure on me to do it or thinkabout it.
(25:50):
And so I'm trying to get someoneto hold that for you and to
prompt you, that's what a goodassistant would do anyway.
And I think he had a lot of,shame about
Kat (26:01):
Well yeah, cuz you can validate, see, this is his
thing.
This is why we need to startwith ourselves, I think.
Right.
Because you can validatesomeone's experiences and say, I
understand this and this andthis, but if that individual
hasn't given themselvespermission, to not be good at a,
B and C mm-hmm then we feelshame.
That's how that
Val (26:19):
Yeah Right It's true so,
Kat (26:21):
oh my gosh.
Like I don't care if you'reneurodiverse or not
neurodiverse, all of us need tolike learn how to be kind to
Val (26:29):
Yeah, that we're okay.
We're okay.
The way
Kat (26:32):
allowed to be exactly as you are,
Val (26:33):
so something that kind of was good about that was that
maybe the anger made himhyperfocus.
I don't know he's taking care ofit, but then he is like oh I
need to, I need to get somethings for the bookkeeper.
He just helped me.
And I was like, oh you mean thatthing that you never wanted me
to be a part of again, Then it's
Kat (26:51):
did you give him shit about it or you let it slide?
Oh,
Val (26:53):
Oh, I gave him shit this is how our relationship survives
laughing.
Oh, my making fun of stuff.
And then the other day he'slike, oh, PayPal's giving me a
blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, you know, it wouldbe really good in this
situation.
A virtual assistant.
Oh gosh.
I wish someone would've tried togot you one Oh,
Kat (27:12):
That's my favorite thing.
When you talk about yourrelationship is how often you
call him a fucker.
yeah.
Okay.
Fucker.
Oh, I love it.
I love it.
An
Val (27:20):
it's just so good.
we even ended an episode oncewhere I was like, yeah, cat,
fuck you.
And then you're like, yeah, keepit that way.
oh my gosh.
This is so good.
Okay.
I hate to stop us, but I thinkwe probably should just cut to
commercials real quick.
Okay.
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(27:41):
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Val (28:39):
We're back.
Thank you so much for listeningfriends.
We love you and thank you forcoming around and rejection,
sensitivity, dysphoria.
Let's just talk a little bitmore about that because it is a
big thing to people with ADHD.
And we just wanted to say, you
Kat (28:52):
any neurodiversity,
Val (28:53):
any neurodiversity, any neurodiversity
Kat (28:55):
people with autism really experiences acutely too.
Val (28:58):
Yes.
Yes.
Kat (28:59):
Yeah.
And there's overlap in thosecommunities more and more people
are discovering that.
I thought I had ADHD, but oh, itlooks like I Oh my favorite
celebrity crush, you know HannahGatsby, she was first diagnosed
with ADHD and then later, all ofa sudden her life made so much
sense because she was like, oh,actually it's autism.
And so she has both.
Yeah.
Val (29:18):
There's also overlap with ADHD and O C D obsessive
compulsive.
Of course.
Yes.
And I feel like that's, the vendiagram I'm I'm living into on
this side
Kat (29:28):
Oh my God.
One time RAI was like giving youshit about a thing on the table.
And I was like, I could neverlive here.
And sometimes I think, oh yeah,a RAI and I are similar.
Right.
We are some similarities, butnot that I don't
Val (29:39):
don't have not that.
one
Kat (29:40):
Not really, no.
Leave a fucking piece of paperon the goddamn
Val (29:43):
It was a water glass.
in my upstairs office.
Nice.
I got a lecture.
Oh,
Kat (29:49):
Oh no.
Okay.
That's not
Val (29:53):
Oh, okay.
I have a story.
This is a good story, I'mnoticing that people that are
more of on the hyperactive side.
Yeah.
see a lot of, more of the O C Din that.
And some people with ADHD,especially like, people
socialize as boys, thedisgusting rooms, like my
brothers, my mom would come outwith like, you know, moldy yes.
Stuff under the bed Yeah.
And like the messiness and allthat.
(30:15):
But then there's another sectionof people with ADHD that there's
also this co-occurrence of OCD.
Where I think RAI has that, andI'm trying to give him language,
because I think that he's justlike, well, you're a slob and
this is the way things shouldgo, which is funny.
Cuz cat comes to my house allthe time and
Kat (30:32):
it's so nice here.
You guys it's like real, pretty,it's so pretty and nice and well
decorated and always tidy, likeoccasionally a little lived in
that's all a little I'm like wedon't record in my fucking
house.
Val (30:47):
like help me.
I think that he is finallyseeing that it might not be
good, but there, and again, ADHDis a paradox and sometimes like
people will say, I, I can't workat a messy desk.
I have to clean it first.
So people might think thatthat's procrastination, but I
think also there is this sort ofvisual element of it.
And if you do have someco-occurring O C D with it that,
(31:09):
right.
I saw a meme about like, How canI explain that the papers are
too loud and, how you can'tthink, because there's an open
jar.
Right.
That's something that doesreally, yeah.
It does occur in, some instancesin ADHD, so it is that paradox,
right?
Yeah.
So, so we live with that, right.
(31:29):
But there's also the strongemotion.
Yeah.
And giving people language forthat.
When we were first married, myhusband's pretty laid back.
And is he going until somethingreally upsets him, but I,
couldn't figure out, I was like,wait a minute.
Why are you so angry right now?
Did the edge?
Or was he like kind ofaggressive or whatever.
(31:51):
with ADHD, there is thisliability, I think
Kat (31:56):
Ooh, that's
Val (31:56):
I know, I think I'm using it right.
I don't know.
I'll take it out if I'm
Kat (31:59):
it real good
Val (32:04):
So this like up and down emotional, dysregulation is very
common and we don't, realizethat as well in ADHD.
Again, we just think it's theanger outbursts of like the
hyperactive male,
Kat (32:17):
right child.
Sure.
Yeah.
Val (32:19):
So one day I was getting ready for seeing my clients and
I had a cup of coffee and I putmy computer down.
Didn't see my, coffee mug and Ispilled a whole mug of coffee on
a cream colored chair.
I was so scared to tell my
Kat (32:34):
oh, Jesus
Val (32:35):
I know that
Kat (32:36):
that doesn't sound
Val (32:37):
good.
No I know I'm just a highlysensitive person.
So we gotta say that too.
But I came out and I said, okay,I don't need you to be upset
with me right now.
I have to start with clients.
I'm just telling you and I'mgonna take care of it myself.
I made a mess, but I, I spilledcoffee.
he tried his best cat I noticedhe was trying, but then I'm
(33:00):
like, look, I know that you'relike fuming, like, you know,
like a cartoon, the spoke comingout of his nostrils and I'm
like, look it'll come out.
I'll work on it.
And then went like, see, this iswhy I say no coffee in the
bedroom, which is not true.
And blah, blah, blah, blah,blah.
He was trying to make up a alogical reason of why he was
upset.
(33:20):
And so finally I was like, dude,no, you bring me coffee in bed
every morning.
Like, no, we didn't say thatthere shouldn't
Kat (33:26):
be my God.
Wow.
Look.
Yeah.
Val (33:28):
I, I touched him on the shoulders.
I said, look, just having strong
Kat (33:33):
that.
Val (33:35):
that's all you're having strong
Kat (33:37):
emotions.
Yeah.
Yeah
Val (33:38):
I love you.
And now go He is
Kat (33:40):
Wow.
He is so lucky to be married toyou.
I'm telling you.
Val (33:44):
and so, and so I was like that was a big difference in our
lives, of course, just to beable to say, Hey buddy, you're
having strong emotions.
Kat (33:55):
yeah.
Mm-hmm
Val (33:56):
yeah.
Mm-hmm is that's it you'rehaving a strong reaction to this
but I think it's reallyimportant for people with ADHD.
That's why I wanted to bringthis up that this emotional
dysregulation is a part of it somuch so that some people get
diagnosed, especially people whohave been socialized as women,
that they get diagnosed by theirdoctor with depression or
anxiety instead of the ADHD,which is the underlying thing.
Kat (34:18):
I was diagnosed with depression.
Yeah.
Before.
that.
Yeah,
Val (34:22):
So you put on this emotional dysregulation, strong,
reactions, right.
And then this fear of beingrejected.
Right
Kat (34:29):
I don't know how they like got the data that like people
that are neurodiverse experiencethis more acutely, you know, but
like the fact that they'vecollected all this data that
says, it's not just that they'resensitive.
Right.
Cuz you're a highly sensitiveperson.
You understand what that's like,but it's, it's almost like the
experience of being rejection isdevastating to a different
(34:50):
degree.
Val (34:51):
qualitatively.
It hurt more.
Yeah.
In their Bodies.
Kat (34:55):
Whoa.
Are you reading that?
Val (34:58):
I was just remembering
Kat (34:59):
it.
Val (34:59):
I was quickly trying to find the link to this one
article.
I
Kat (35:02):
like
Val (35:02):
but I can't find it.
Kat (35:05):
that's super funny.
Val (35:06):
That's my professional voice.
Kat (35:07):
Excellent.
I love it.
Yeah.
So then we thought, okay, solearning about this was really
helpful.
Like when I knew that I had it,I just knew to be on the watch
for it more.
And then again, when it mightshow up in my interpersonal
relationships, I was able tolike acknowledge for myself.
Oh, I think I might beexperiencing rejection,
sensitivity, dysphoria.
Like it might not be them orwhat they said or whatever.
(35:28):
Right.
Now I need to do something withthis, cuz it is, it's a big
emotional charge, right?
So this is where like my deeppractice of self-compassion
comes in and learning how toco-regulate with others.
So like if I have access toothers, right.
I can say, Hey, this is whathappened.
I was sort of like dinged inthis way is really ouchie.
You know, can you hold space forme as I like, you know, process
(35:49):
it or whatever it is I mightneed.
Yeah.
But if I don't have access tohumans, then I'm gonna do like a
self-compassion practice whereI'm just acknowledging, like,
this is very ouchie, this likesuper hurts.
And then just validate that I'mfeeling these things and that
judge them and that give them amorality,
Val (36:06):
Mm-hmm that's wrong
Kat (36:07):
for feeling it, and then sometimes there's this thing
where you have to let an emotionget as big as it needs to get.
Yeah.
So it can like move through.
Right.
And again, that's so tricky.
What?
Val (36:18):
well, I, sorry.
I'm like, trying to get the
Kat (36:20):
she's making a cute face.
What?
Val (36:21):
I, so I have this little notebook when I'm doing therapy.
When I come up with really well,what I think is funny stuff.
Look exactly what you said.
You gotta let it out.
When it comes to emotions, be adrama queen.
it ha you have to let it out.
Yeah.
Let it out, let
Kat (36:37):
go to
Val (36:38):
to its fullness.
Right.
So that it'll pass anddissipate, right?
Kat (36:42):
Yeah.
Cause otherwise it gets justshoved down in your body.
I mean, that's the truth.
That's how bodies work.
Like there's the book called thebody keeps score.
Mm-hmm and you know, there's alot of good research around this
now.
Like when we don't let thingsmove through, they get shoved
Val (36:55):
down mm-hmm
Kat (36:56):
socialized to do that,
Val (36:57):
which is, oh yeah.
Kat (36:58):
to So there's this really interesting book about like
trauma and spiritual awakening.
I read once.
loved it so much.
So basically they're saying thatlike animals when they're like
being chased or whatever, right.
Like the fight or flight happensto them.
Yep.
They'll like.
Once the danger has dissipated.
They'll like regulate they'llsort of shake and like, get that
(37:20):
to move through their system andthen they'll just be fine.
And then like you think about akid who experienced something
really hard or traumatic,naturally we know how to do this
thing where we like, sort ofshaking your convulsing, right?
Like people, humans naturallywanna do that.
That's our mammal You naturallywanna.
Physically, let the feeling getas big as it is and it'll move
through and then your, yoursystem will regulate itself.
(37:43):
But what we all have beenconditioned to do is to like
shut at the fuck
Val (37:47):
off
Kat (37:48):
mm-hmm And so then your body doesn't get to complete the
stress cycle.
So it gets shoved down insomewhere.
But if you can, you know, createspaces and relearn how to like,
manifest.
And so like this, thisparticular book again, it talks
about trauma and awakening, butlike, they teach you how to do
some meditative exercises whereyou like allow parts of your
body to shake and convulse.
(38:09):
Mm.
In order to complete a stresscycle, even from some old shit,
sometimes isn't thatinteresting.
The human body is
Val (38:17):
It is really interesting.
And like, why?
Oh, okay.
Yeah, this is why KA all thisstuff is kind of connected.
And we, we just talk about all
Kat (38:25):
stuff.
It's so fun,
Val (38:26):
but about how so stonewalling or emotional
cutoff, the silent treatment isso it's, I've actually started
to talk to clients about that.
That is a form of abuse and how,oh, I was my friend goes, oh,
you know, this movie X, Y, Z isreally good.
You should watch it.
Yeah, I like rage watched it.
Because my husband said hedidn't wanna talk about it our
(38:48):
fight anymore.
And I just I know what else todo in that moment.
And I knew I was gonna make itworse.
that was the night that I waslike, I guess this is the end.
Like, yep.
This is bullshit.
Kat (39:01):
You had a good run.
Val (39:02):
We had a good run.
And the next morning I I knewtoo, and there's probably some
horrible ones involved Right ButI was like, I think I'm gonna
feel different
Kat (39:08):
about
Val (39:10):
into the next morning.
I'm like I love him so Oh mygosh.
I love him so much.
But I was mad cuz I get reallyupset if he's shutting it down
and like if he had the emotionalintelligence, sorry, babe.
To like be like, I, can hearyou're upset Right?
This is one of those things inour relationship, the unsolvable
(39:31):
problems.
I love you.
Let's both go to bed and talkabout this in the morning.
Right?
I think that would've beenenough.
Just stayed up way past mybedtime finished this movie, but
I kind of did gave myself what Ineeded.
But I was so upset because hecut me off and
Kat (39:46):
I needed it out.
Right
Val (39:47):
So when you're talking about that stress cycle.
Yeah.
I, I think we've seen howdamaging the silent treatment
and a lot of people withchildhood trauma, I wonder why,
like I'm having such a hard timenow.
Well, yeah, because all of youremotions were repressed or you
weren't allowed to say them.
That's why it feels good to belike, fuck you.
Yeah.
to my husband in like a jokingway, that's not okay.
(40:11):
What you did, or I'm mad at youright now.
Or like you're being an asshole.
Kat (40:14):
Fuck you.
Yeah.
I think that's a beautiful thingwhen you can, like, in a almost
light way, acknowledge thatyou're angry at each other,
right?
Yeah.
That that's, I think that'sbeautiful.
This is but
Val (40:23):
not the end of the world.
And, but also like, please stopdoing that.
Kat (40:26):
Okay.
So you're talking about like,not stonewalling people, but
also I wanna like say the flipside is if you will just say, I
actually need some space on thisissue.
That's a big difference.
Val (40:35):
Right?
Mm that's the next thing I needto teach him.
Yes, babe.
I just need some space.
Yeah.
Instead of shutting me off.
Kat (40:41):
Right.
Because that's the thing like,yeah, you're welcome.
You're welcome.
That's for free.
So, but when we we're ininterpersonal relationships, you
do sometimes need to put itdown.
That's why you completed yourstress cycle that night by
yourself and in the morning youfeel better.
Right.
So sometimes we do need to comeaway from especially an
unsolvable issue.
Yes.
And so, and then you need to beable to feel your feelings about
it and they need to feel theirfeelings about it.
(41:03):
Yeah.
Like I had a disappointing thinghappen kind of recently with
this person that I'm, delightedby.
And so I noticed that like Ijust needed a beat and then I
think they probably needed abeat too.
And then we were just able, tocommunicate it though, you know?
I'm recognizing it because I hada recent, big breakup.
When I feel myself gettingcloser to someone, I kind of
keep, I keep hitting these wallsmm-hmm, you know, and I'm like,
(41:24):
Ooh, it's ouchie, oy ouchie tofeel yourself getting closer to
someone.
And so it's okay that we need itto stop Right.
So it's actually okay.
That he's like, I gotta shutthis down, but he also then
would benefit from, to be kindand loving to these other humans
in our life.
You just acknowledge it outloud.
Mm-hmm you're like, oh, I'mrecognizing I'm gonna need to
(41:46):
like be done with thisparticular issue.
Mm-hmm probably for this amountof time.
I'll circle back if I can.
Yep.
You're not stonewalling.
You're not cutting off.
You're not cutting offrelationship.
You are just saying this thing Ineed to be
Val (41:59):
Yep Can't talk about it tonight.
Kat (42:01):
In our interpersonal relationships, let's as humans,
right?
Like you all out there that arelistening, we would love it.
If you would not use a silenttreatment, cuz it's abusive
because it's an interruption tothe bond that you have with the
people in your life.
And it, it hurts and it feelslike a rejection.
And then again, circling back torejection, sensitivity,
dysphoria, it can be likeanother trauma.
Right.
And you're trying to resolvewhatever the issue is, but then
(42:22):
like you increase the trauma.
Right.
Val (42:25):
Mm-hmm I think, you know, we've talked about one time you
came over and I, I was probablymad at everything and you were
like, whoa, she mad at me andyou just said, Hey, I know it's
probably not it, but I just needto hear you say like, is this
about me?
Are you doing okay?
Are you mad at me?
And, I tell people, get yourfeelings on the outside.
Yeah.
Right.
So just communicating evenasking the question, knowing if
(42:45):
I'm more susceptible to havingthat rejection sensitivity,
Okay, maybe check in And I didfind, can I read this quote cuz
it's so good.
Oh please.
Are you okay?
Let's see.
Emotional dysregulation is whenperson feels an emotion so
intensely that the emotion takesover and cannot be subdued with
rejection, sensitivity,dysphoria person experiences,
extreme emotional sensitivityand pain triggered by the
(43:09):
perception real or imagined ofbeing rejected, teased,
criticized.
That's a big one, adisappointment to important
people in their lives.
disappointed in themselves whenthey fail to attain their own
standard or goals.
The emotional pain, the personexperiences is real and extreme.
(43:31):
Right.
And not easily dismissed.
Yeah.
The pain is so primitive andoverwhelming that people
struggle to find words todescribe it Yeah.
They can talk about itsintensity, awful, terrible,
catastrophic, and cannot findwords to convey the quality of
the emotional pain.
Kat (43:53):
Yeah.
It's intense.
Val (43:55):
So some of these ways that people protect themselves from
it.
So this is really goodinformation to know about
yourself, right.
They either become peoplepleasers, right.
Or withdraw and abandon theirown goals at a fear of failure.
The other common weight ofprotecting ones, self is to give
up trying anything new, unlessone is assure of quick and
(44:17):
complete
Kat (44:18):
Yeah, my, yeah.
There's so many tos
Val (44:20):
top the notion of
Kat (44:21):
on that.
About that one.
Val (44:22):
Oh yeah.
Kat (44:23):
I'm not gonna start something unless I'm immediately
good
Val (44:25):
at unless I'm immediately good at it.
The notion of trying and failingor being turned down is just too
painful to risk.
Yeah.
They don't go on dates.
They don't apply for the job.
They don't speak in meetings ormake ideas known to anyone.
So I mean, if you have anybodyin your life that, that sounds
likely, I think what arevelation to know, that's what
they're experiencing it and thatit's different.
(44:47):
Yeah.
Than maybe if you'reneurotypical and feel some of
that
Kat (44:51):
Absolutely So again, like when we talk about interacting
with other human beings,different isn't wrong, it's just
different.
And then again, cultivating apractice of self-compassion with
yourself, where you're like,Hey, I am allowed to exist in
the world as I am.
It makes it a whole lot fuckingeasier to be like, and you are
allowed to exist in the world asyou are.
And then you find creativeproblem solvings for those
(45:14):
there's like something stuck.
Right?
Yeah.
Mm.
Val (45:18):
And the humans around you, Spending the time to cultivate
some deeper, safe relationshipsand talk through those things
and also like maybe making itokay.
That maybe you don't like to trya lot of new hobbies cuz of fear
of failure.
I don't feel like I need toconquer my fear of jumping out
(45:38):
of airplanes or like bungeejumping.
Fuck that.
No, some people are like, Idon't like the feeling that
something is coming over me.
No, I'm perfectly fine withthere being things in my life
that I'm very fearful of.
Kat (45:49):
So don't Do
Val (45:50):
em so don't do'em.
Yeah.
So if you wanna stay with yourone or two little hobbies that
you're good at.
Yeah.
Do it.
You wanna stay at your job andyou're doing okay.
Or maybe there's baby steps in
Kat (46:00):
between.
Right.
Well, and that's the otherthing, like, there could be some
like internal driver, like, boy,it keeps showing back up for me
that I wanna do this thing.
I am fucking scared.
Right.
For all these reasons.
And so then that's when you getto like, you just be present
with what you're feeling.
Right.
We learn how to be kind toourselves.
And then you're like, okay,well, do I need a little support
around this?
And like, how can I get thatsupport?
(46:21):
Right.
So, oh my God know, thy selfknow thy self know thy self.
One more thing popped in myhead.
I wanna circle back quickly, butwhen we're having a conflict,
right.
Conflict resolution is somethingthat is very interesting to me.
And I love talking about it.
I'm deeply optimistic.
Like it's part of my nature.
Yeah.
And I'm like, you love me.
I love you.
(46:41):
We can figure something out.
Right.
Mm-hmm so instead of the silenttreatment, because you've become
overwhelmed, right.
First of all, again, there'sthat self knowledge of like, I'm
overwhelmed, but there's thisgreat word called saturation
point where you, again, you'reflooded with emotion.
Right?
And so you need to be able tohave a practice where you can
sort of step outside yourselfjust enough to acknowledge like,
(47:02):
oh, this is the saturationpoint.
I absolutely cannot do anymoreat And then, because it's a
kindness to the people in yourlife that you love, you say that
out loud to them.
I've reached my cent generationpoint.
Val (47:15):
it on the outside Yes
Kat (47:16):
And so then again, it's just more language to be like,
oh, I'm gonna need to circleback.
Right.
Or like, can we sleep and seehow we feel in the morning,
whatever it might be.
Oh, don't you think it's so dumbthat people were ever like,
don't go to bed
Val (47:31):
Yeah, no.
Like scientifically too, we tellcouples if you're flooded, it
takes at least 20 minutes foreither the adrenaline or for
your heart rate to go down.
So you can, you can take in newinformation.
Absolutely.
So it's, very wise.
Kat (47:45):
Yeah.
And again, if you have therejection sensitivity is for you
and the dysregulation of youremotions, it can be longer than
Because you're flooded.
And so the reaction to thestimuli can just be that much
more heightened
Val (47:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, friends.
Oh our other ADHD episode, ourfirst one is one of our most
listen to episodes.
Yeah.
And we've gotten such feedbackright.
About People weeping, like notcrying.
Several people have used theword weeping and I'm just, you
know, touched that.
(48:19):
We're able to bring somecatharsis or some healing.
Some people saying I feel soseen, or this explains my
relationship.
So I hope that happened againtoday.
Kat (48:30):
Thank you so much.
Val (48:34):
have you reached your
Kat (48:35):
I know I'm like, did I use all my fucking words?
Is that possible for love you?
Val (48:42):
cat?
You meet your saturation, playcat
Kat (48:46):
I love you.
Val (48:46):
I love you, Rachel.
I love you.
You're listening to three questions with Katten, Val I'm
Kat and I'm bow.
We've been friends for over 20years.
Thousands of therapists and catsand artists.
We're both great talkers.
And we're both XFN delicacy whoused to pastor gay.
Now we both have chronicillnesses.
We think we're fuckinghilarious.
Kat (00:34):
Hi.
Val (00:35):
hello friends.
Kat (00:42):
Val, what did you just say to me?
Val (00:45):
You asked me, does that sound good?
And I said, I'm not sure.
I know what you're saying, whichI didn't was funny.
Kat (00:54):
but I guess, well, because
Val (00:56):
the way I said is what
Kat (01:00):
the way I said it, oh my gosh, we're sitting here and
we're trying our best you guys,you know, but we're human too.
We're having like an off fuckingday
Val (01:10):
what the fuck is happening.
Kat (01:11):
that was telling me, like trying to access vocabulary.
Words is hard.
We like to show up with you allbeing happy and fun, having fun
stories.
Yeah.
We love being here with you all,but yeah, we're just human too.
We're doing our best.
Some days are hard.
Yeah, And then sometimes maybewe get dressed up on a hard day.
Do you ever do that?
(01:31):
I almost never do that.
But I did get cute for youtoday.
Val (01:35):
You sure did.
Kat (01:37):
I know I did.
I'm wearing this like one piece,like what did we decide?
This is called Fran.
Oh yeah.
I don't usually like Palmthings, but this is like so
green and so Palmy it's likegreen and black and it's like a
one piece sort of summary,
Val (01:54):
jumpsuit.
Oh, jump It's a jumpsuit
Kat (01:56):
rayon.
It's really breezy.
I like Okay.
But I was talking shit becauseit's annoying, right?
Because, so this is, it comes inthe size.
It fits on my body.
Mm-hmm but there's no zippers.
There's no snaps.
And so they did a great jobsizing it to get over my leg.
Very generous belly and hips.
thank you.
But then like the top partyou're supposed to like stand
(02:18):
into it.
Like the, the neck bit of it isnot fucking big enough for my
widest part of my body.
And so it's just, it's a fuckingoversight is what it is, but I'm
mad at them.
I'm like, Hey fuckers.
So I had to cut the straps andthen tie them.
So I have two knots, like alittle kid.
Remember those little kidoutfits that you'd, you have
little knots on'em babies.
I know, but they were stretchingenough.
(02:39):
You get in and out of'em withthe knots tied and not me.
I go pee.
I gotta like undo a knot, undo aknot, take the whole thing down.
It's a pain in the
Val (02:46):
Well, jumpsuits.
Yes.
I was telling you about this,me, my SAR that was like, yeah,
everyone will compliment you ona jumpsuit, but then when you
have to go to the bathroom,you're just naked in alone with
your choices.
Yeah.
You're alone in a bathroom stallwith your choices.
Kat (03:07):
That's true.
It's so true.
But it jumpsuit looks amazing.
I love a
Val (03:10):
all funny games until you're you're like practically
naked and then people from othercountries are like, why do your
bathrooms have like
Kat (03:17):
pizza
Val (03:19):
like, it's not a thing in other countries.
Yes.
But I do.
I do love a good jumpsuit.
I was wearing one the othernight and.
Kat (03:26):
yeah,
Val (03:27):
looking pretty good in it.
Kat (03:28):
I bet.
Val (03:28):
mean, and you're hot.
Well,
Kat (03:32):
husband
Val (03:33):
and I had a date cuz he was leaving again.
and had this, outfit on thatactually a friend like gifted
him.
So he's like sending pictures inthe group chat and
Kat (03:42):
Oh yeah.
I saw this picture.
We'll have to post it.
He looked very
Val (03:45):
he's got his Ray vans on, he was looking hot.
he's handsome and
Kat (03:49):
he like
Val (03:49):
like cleans up, well, He was peacocking.
If you have listened to some ofthe earlier episodes and okay.
So we're
Kat (03:55):
at there
Val (03:56):
all of a sudden, you know, if we're in the bay area, when
the sun goes down or goes behinda tree, it's like a 20 to 30
degree drop.
So all of a sudden he's got thislike preppy sweater.
Oh, he's
Kat (04:05):
like I know.
Yeah.
He looks expensive.
Val (04:11):
it was
Kat (04:12):
expensive.
Val (04:16):
he, stands up at dinner and we're like eating on the street
at this like Italian bistro, allthese like older couples around
everyone just And he, he standsup and he says oh, this is the
moment everyone's been waitingfor.
For me to put my sweater on andI was like, what?
He's like, yeah, everyone'swaiting for me to put this
Kat (04:38):
sweater
Val (04:38):
on.
And I was like, no one caresabout your sweater.
and I was telling my friend oneof my best friends Rai's twin,
who of course is also a peacock,cuz they're twins.
She was like, amiga why are youbeing so mean to him?
Like, why couldn't you just lethim think everybody wanted
here's what?
And I'm like, I always soundlike the asshole, but he had
(05:00):
already asked me like 15 timesactually he made me tell him cuz
he's like, am I cute?
Am I cute?
Tell me, am I cute?
Like 15 times already?
So I'm like, yes, you are cute.
You're hot.
Look at you.
Wow.
Like, like I'm giving himeverything.
Meanwhile, I had to ask him, butwhat about me?
See.
(05:20):
That was her response
Kat (05:22):
too.
Yeah
Val (05:23):
you about that in a minute.
But I was like, look I said Iwas concerned.
Was he having a break withreality?
Nobody wanted to see, They don'tcare about his preppies.
I was concerned.
Come back to reality.
No one cares about your fuckingsweater.
That's the hyperfocus.
(05:44):
That's why people with ADHD.
Sometimes they think theirassholes, everything is about
themselves.
Like their hyperfocus is like,this outfit is so
Kat (05:52):
amazing.
Val (05:53):
Everybody must be looking at me so funny
Kat (05:55):
That's so
Val (05:56):
and thinking of my other.
So,
Kat (05:58):
Oh my
Val (05:58):
my friend was like, okay, Aika I get it.
But she, she had the samereaction you did.
She's like, well, where are thepictures of you?
And I'm like, he took one, buthe's really not a good
photographer.
I had to ask him, but what abouttell me about how good I look.
I had just done my hair.
My eyes look good.
Kat (06:14):
clean up real good.
Val (06:16):
like, look at me if he wasn't my brother, I'd be like,
look, I can get you some other
Kat (06:19):
dude
Val (06:20):
You need to be out with some men who treat you better.
Kat (06:23):
men or queer people.
the
Val (06:28):
spectrum of the gender, the gender spectrum,
Kat (06:31):
Other human beings would be like, damn Val damn
Val (06:35):
speaking of other human beings.
So we're walking down the streetafter dinner, holding hands and
this lovely older woman stops.
Takes off her mask and is like,are you guys models?
Kat (06:50):
And you know
Val (06:51):
and you know how, like someone just stops you on the
street.
You kind of are like, do I needto just keep walking?
Is this a trap?
I don't know.
right, Like, I don't know is, soI just, you know, you just kind
of, is this a
Kat (07:02):
trap
Val (07:05):
Oh, that's so sad.
Our society is like that rightnow.
I was like, help.
Is this a trip?
So I kind of didn't fully stop,but then of course she's like,
Hey, are you guys, models?
And then I was like, oh, Iguess, I guess I have to
Kat (07:18):
And I was like oh guess I have to stop.
I guess I have to engage withthis stranger who thinks I'm a
fucking model.
Val (07:23):
Oh, she said, oh, you guys are so beautiful.
And then I was like, thank youso much.
And the moral of the story israp was right.
Everyone does sweater.
OK.
Kat (07:37):
good job Murphy.
Oh my God.
Okay.
Okay.
So you're saying that's maybe anADHD thing.
Right?
And so I was like, oh fuck.
I have to confess because Idon't necessarily think people
are like waiting for my costumechange yesterday Yeah.
But I do think that everybodyfinds me charming was like, I am
delighting everybody.
Val (07:59):
I think it's beautiful and wonderful.
And like, as long as it's rootedin some sort of reality, I don't
see a problem with it.
Kat (08:08):
well, the truth is I have met people who do not find me
charming.
Oh.
But I'm always shocked.
I'm always shocked.
It is
Val (08:14):
Shocked.
that's really funny.
Well, you know, what's funny.
I always say about rap that hewill not accept that people
don't like
Kat (08:23):
it unless you piss
Val (08:24):
off and then it's fuck you.
Kat (08:27):
you're
Val (08:28):
dead to me dead to me.
Right?
If not, I'm like, no, no, hedoesn't give you a you will like
Kat (08:34):
it Right right right
Val (08:35):
in charge of
Kat (08:35):
that.
he's in charge of that.
He's So that's
Val (08:38):
Okay.
So his twin, was like, oh,amiga.
Yeah.
Is that an ADHD thing to like,just be thinking that about
yourself?
So she just asked me just likeyou
Kat (08:47):
asked me.
Yeah.
Val (08:48):
I was like, well, I think this focus on self.
I think the hyperfocus, I thinkit's like blinders, but with
mirrors they're mirroredblinders, okay, so now I'm
talking about three people in mylife with ADHD that are very
focused on their appearance.
our parents and how fuckingcharming they
Kat (09:07):
So
Val (09:07):
I don't know.
we told you this was not foreducational purposes, just for
entertainment.
This is not like a set upresearch.
You know, I don't have my blindcontrols here.
Kat (09:20):
but
Val (09:22):
I wanna say dear lovely humans, whether you are a
peacock with ADHD or justanother lovely bird with ADHD
Kat (09:33):
another lovely
Val (09:34):
And someone has called you selfish and that's hurt and
caused you shame.
There's lots of symptoms thatmaybe kind of make it seem like,
but oh, I read these beautifulthings that said the
Kat (09:50):
the
Val (09:50):
the focus on the self in ADHD does not Deno, selfishness,
like not thinking of others.
Right.
I think it's just a hyper focuson self and then like oh yeah.
there's someone else here.
I find myself saying that to myhusband a lot, excuse me.
Hello?
I'm here too.
Hello?
Kat (10:09):
Oh my God.
Well, yeah, no, I hear all thattoo.
And maybe it's because like, ifyou have ADHD, you start to
recognize the norm.
neurotypical, and you feel likethe odd one out, you're sort of
more aware of cause you're awareof differences.
Yeah.
And that could be why you, therewas a little more like and then
I love the puzzle trying to
Val (10:31):
Mm-hmm
Kat (10:31):
mm-hmm and I do like myself.
I think I'm charming as fuck.
Val (10:35):
fuck.
You are charming.
You are charming.
Do we, is it safe to talk aboutthat as a, as a, as a coping
skill for ADHD?
Kat (10:43):
Oh, well, I mean, is a coping me it's it's a coping
skill for like my family oforigin.
Val (10:48):
Yeah.
you know what I mean?
Like, sure
Kat (10:50):
it ADHD or is it trauma?
We've
Val (10:52):
drama or we've talked about how, like being a person in a
larger
Kat (10:58):
Yeah.
Val (10:58):
To be more acceptable being the good fatty, like I sent you
something once that's like,okay.
Did I inherit this, charmingpersonality from my family of
origin?
Or did I develop this?
Because I knew that I wasn't thepeacock, actually Amy poll, the
comedian actress.
She, wrote about that in herbook.
Kat (11:17):
I read her book, her audio.
Book's so good.
By the way it's called.
Yes, please.
Yeah.
Val (11:20):
Yes.
Oh, good memory.
So lots of times,
Kat (11:23):
cuz I hyper focus on shit.
Sometimes she reads me to sleepat night, talking about SNL
days.
It's delightful.
Val (11:30):
valley,
Kat (11:32):
that's long time I know go
Val (11:35):
to go to sleep.
Cat has our podcast at AV andrepeat,
Kat (11:38):
I don't go to sleep, listening to us cuz I don't fall
asleep to it.
Cause I'm so interesting.
Val (11:45):
you're charming yourself.
You fucker
Kat (11:50):
and I think you're wise.
Isn't interesting too.
So.
Val (11:53):
What about charming?
Kat (11:54):
Yes.
Charming.
And so funny, you even know howfunny you were.
Val (12:02):
I'm like cat.
Do other people think I'm asfunny as I think I am like,
maybe not everyone.
I mean, not for everybody
Kat (12:09):
oh, cuz you're like in touch with reality.
No grandiose self-assessmenthere.
Val (12:18):
You're like in touch with reality.
Yes, exactly.
Thank you.
Ooh, that's interesting.
Yeah, no grandiosity.
I'm staying away fromgrandiosity, cuz that, that gets
you in trouble or maybe itdoesn't.
Maybe it makes you famous.
I don't know.
Kat (12:30):
Right.
Who fuck knows.
We dunno.
We're just
Val (12:33):
we dunno.
Okay.
There, there are some thingsthat I think do like that.
I think they easily distracted.
Right.
Or getting back to why, why doesit seem like a person with ADHD
comes across that way or theinterrupting.
Yeah.
You are actually very good atthat.
I don't feel like you interruptme often.
Kat (12:53):
Oh, well my ex-husband, it would drive him crazy.
He was like, you interrupt allthe time and he, you know,
remember you talk about like,it's the story you tell.
Yeah.
And like he was like a slowtalker and so he'd be like
trying to make an elaboratepoint.
And he would like use a lot ofmy baseball analogies and I'd be
like bored outta my mind.
And my brain works really fast.
And so I was like, you meanthis?
(13:13):
And he'd be mad at me.
Yeah.
So I do, but I think in most myrelationships people understand
it as like collaborativeinterrupting.
Yeah.
Where I'm not interrupting tochange the subject.
Yeah.
I'm just like, oh yeah.
And this I, yes.
And I, yes.
And like a
Val (13:29):
Yeah.
Well I think you and RAI, myhusband are on the same page
where my stories take too
Kat (13:35):
him
Val (13:36):
Oh.
Or my, responses, or he's like,I already know what you're
Kat (13:38):
gonna say.
Val (13:39):
I fuck you.
No, you don't.
Because your emotional tell justis not.
I enough to understand me.
You have no fucking idea whatI'm gonna say,
Kat (13:48):
say see.
And I'm sure that I do know, cuzI do have high emotional
intelligence
Val (13:52):
Exactly.
And I'm not telling him likelong baseball analogies, but I'm
like, sir, can I please finish athought?
And then with my chronic illnessand the brain fog, I'm like, oh
fuck you.
Yeah.
Oh fuck you like stop
Kat (14:04):
dressing me.
Val (14:06):
Oh.
And then we have friends whoalso have it.
Kat (14:09):
Yeah.
And, Yeah is,
Val (14:11):
it's just wild.
I just watch it.
But I started to say to him,sir,
Kat (14:15):
sir.
You call him sir.
Huh?
Val (14:18):
it's funny and sexy.
Kat (14:20):
no, I.
I can hear it.
I see your body language, sir.
it's like, he's getting talkeddown to when you call him, sir.
It's like the opposite.
Val (14:30):
It's like, yeah, like I'm giving you an extra amount of
respect because fuck you.
Excuse me, sir.
Did the middle of my sentence.
Interrupt the beginning ofyours.
Fuck you.
So, so we do that.
Again, ADHD, not wrong.
Just
Kat (14:47):
different, just different.
Val (14:48):
why people interrupt.
Yeah.
Well number one, because yourbrain's going a mile a minute.
Okay.
I get that number two, you
Kat (14:59):
Oh that's a big one.
Val (15:00):
That is a big one.
Number three.
Kat (15:06):
like leaning in.
I'm like what's number three.
Val (15:09):
I was mad at my, I was just mad at my husband.
Kat (15:13):
I was like baited breath leaning in good number.
OK.
Number three.
OK.
Val (15:16):
Number three is ADHD
Kat (15:22):
to
Val (15:22):
Show that you are listening.
Oh.
And understanding by tellingyour own story.
Kat (15:27):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
that, well, what happens is, isthe, the like synapsis in your
brain, you're hearinginformation.
You're like, it lights up thisother thing.
You're like, this is connected.
Cuz like my brain is constantlymaking so many connections.
Yeah, And then
Val (15:41):
it's going
Kat (15:42):
participate and you wanna be like, oh yeah.
And this and this and this.
And we're like, we're likesucking in all the information
of the whole cosmos to be like,Ooh, is it all these fucking
things?
Look at all the nuance and thesoup and the messiness I love
it.
It's how my brain works.
I'm here for it.
Val (15:56):
but I did wanna tell you one
Kat (15:57):
tell me, please.
Val (15:58):
We're going back to ADHD and like this hyper focus.
That is an ADHD, superpower.
Yeah.
And getting your needs met.
The other day.
We had company.
And I thought that we were gonnabe like showing them around
like, ma I wish I could playpickleball, but probably not my
husband comes in and says, Wellno, they just wanna like, stay
around the house and go localtoday.
I'm like, I'm gonna go topickleball.
It starts soon.
Right.
(16:18):
He's like, okay, great.
Just drop us off and we'll goget some breakfast somewhere.
I'm like, okay, fine.
And I felt like I was in thezone, get ready.
And then I go into the car andthen he comes out, oh, they're
not ready yet.
Just go to pick a ball.
But we only have one car and I'mlike, are you sure?
He's like, yeah.
Okay.
And then I'm driving away.
And I, I was like, oh, is thiswhat hyperfocus feels
Kat (16:36):
like?
Val (16:37):
Not that I've never like really focused in on something,
but I was like, oh, I got sweptaway with, this was my need.
And then of course, cuz like Iwanna be a good host and not
make his friends feel bad.
I'm like, was that okay?
And then I was like, oh thanksbabe.
For like letting me go.
And of course, cuz that's how heoperates.
He's like, oh yeah.
I think you were here at ourhouse when we were having a
(16:58):
great time.
There was even like a dancebattle.
Underwear was coming off.
You'll have to go find that inwhatever episode that was.
Kat (17:05):
Oh my God.
That sounds way worse than itwas.
Okay.
Keep going.
You love to be shocking.
And then like back away andpretend to be innocent.
Fuck you, Val.
Fuck you.
Okay, go on.
Motherfucker's like all of
Val (17:17):
all of a sudden Rai's like, gotta go.
My F1 race was on, and wentupstairs and ignored the company
that we had until everyone wasleaving.
And he comes down by see ya.
What a selfish, rudemotherfucker.
Oh.
But it was just him.
He loves F1 racing.
He is a little bit of ahyperfocus on sports.
Kat (17:35):
But I didn't interpret that as rude.
That didn't seem rude to
Val (17:37):
Well, you were high as
Kat (17:38):
Oh, yeah.
that's funny.
Val (17:43):
Right.
Not wrong, but different.
Cuz I can't change that from out
Kat (17:46):
of him.
Yeah
Val (17:47):
And so what he wants to go watch a race upstairs.
Fine.
Wow.
Okay.
Just focus on your own needs,dude.
I
Kat (17:52):
yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah
Val (17:53):
Fine.
But I had actually experiencedit and just gonna kind of get
swept up in this, and then ohyeah.
There's people over So I don'tknow.
I just felt like that was good.
Mm-hmm because when Iexperienced
Kat (18:04):
Yeah
Val (18:05):
I think I can understand it
Kat (18:06):
better Sure Of course.
Val (18:08):
I was like, oh, okay.
This is what it, this is what itfeels like to just let
everything fall and your needsare getting
Kat (18:16):
met.
Yeah And trust that everything'sgonna work out for the other
people, but your job and yourresponsibilities, do the thing
that you need to do and stayfocused on like centering
yourself.
I do think it could be somerelation to ADHD, but you add in
the dynamic of like how we'resocialized yeah.
As fem people in the world.
Yeah.
And it's a very different thing.
Sure.
We're like constantly factoringin
Val (18:36):
of others.
Kat (18:37):
was just talking to my other friend, we're talking
about like dating and stuff likethis and that we're discussing,
like they're trying to makeplans for the holidays I
realized as they were talking.
Cause they were talking to asignificant, other about maybe
holiday plans.
And I was like, oh my God, I dothat all the time where I'm
like, you tell me what yourneeds are.
And I will orient myself aroundRight.
(18:57):
As opposed to what you justexperienced was like, no, I'm
gonna like put my desire front.
And then you guys can likeorganize yourselves around what
I have centered.
Right.
Your desire to go do pickleball.
And I was like, whoa, that evenfor me, that feels a little
uncomfortable.
I don't do Unless I literally amby myself and then I will do
that.
You know what I mean?
Well,
Val (19:16):
what was interesting was he was totally okay with it.
Yeah.
I think I probably didn't trustthat he knew the implications
cuz like we don't have anothercar.
So like was either they gonnaUber?
Are they gonna walk?
Are they gonna just stay homethey're adults.
But I felt very uncomfortablethe whole drive out of like our
little area.
Cause sometimes I, I think hesays yes to things also.
(19:37):
Maybe the ADHD, not likethinking ahead.
Sure, sure.
And I wanna make sure, I feellike it's kind of unfair right.
Like his brain, isn't justnaturally thinking of all the
consequences of saying yes.
And so I wanna help with that.
And also he's way more flexibleand adaptable
Kat (19:54):
the thing.
I was just gonna say that whenyou have like I do like HES,
like you just are like presentin the moments adapt like
Val (20:01):
that's the second adaptable.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, so superpowers, hyperfocusand adaptability, And the third
one let's say is let's say,let's say we'll just
Kat (20:14):
we'll just make shit up.
It was
Val (20:15):
No, yes.
We're making this shit up.
Let's say that it is the abilityto move on.
Let's something roll off yourback.
Oh, all the friends that I havethat have ADHD.
Yeah.
Can really just let stuff rolloff their back for the most
part.
Although.
When RAI puts his heels in aforget
Kat (20:32):
I know, see that's the paradox though.
Cuz they're like, oh, this ishow we are.
Oh, and there's the oppositetoo.
Cuz it's a paradox.
Val (20:38):
cause it's a paradox.
Yeah.
Kat (20:39):
something's will roll off your back.
But then other things you're
Val (20:41):
you're dead to
Kat (20:42):
triggered rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria
motherfucker.
Val (20:47):
Yes.
Maybe that's like thekryptonite.
I mean, cuz come on.
I grew up in the wonder womanera.
Love a good superhero analogy.
I have a colleague that I wastalking about the podcast and
all the ADHD and I'm like, man,another person in my life with
it.
And he's like, you're just likeassembling your and I'm like
Avengers my husband forced me towatch every
Kat (21:08):
single
Val (21:09):
movie during, during the pandemic in, in the
chronological order.
Oh my gosh.
Not the order that they
Kat (21:15):
came No I understand.
I understand what you're sayingIt's
Val (21:18):
cuz your son probably did
Kat (21:19):
your son brought did your son.
Yes.
How did you know that?
That literally that yes, yes.
Yeah.
Val (21:23):
all the godfather movies too.
I hadn't watched those.
I so anyway, he's like, you'rejust assembling your Avengers.
I'm like, I totally am.
And maybe I love the intensitytoo.
Yeah.
So the kryptonite, I think isthe rejection sensitivity,
dysphoria,
Kat (21:38):
Oh, right.
So you've ADHD, there's somesuperpowers, but there's still a
kryptonite.
Val (21:42):
I think the kryptonite
Kat (21:43):
rejection sensitivity, dysphoria.
And this is where you perceiveor experience rejection.
It can be real or perceived.
Right.
And that's where, what thatmeans is you've just like
decided they've been, you know,they're rejecting you, even if
that's not their intent, butwhether or not it's their
intent, it hurts like amotherfucker.
Val (22:01):
Yes.
Even the fear of it, I would saytoo, the anticipation of it.
Yeah.
Right.
Real imagine or anticipated,right.
Feared.
Kat (22:10):
Ooh, cryp tonight.
Val (22:12):
Cause then what does that bring?
Shame?
Yeah.
Fucking
Kat (22:15):
Well, and then I think too.
Yeah, fuck you.
Shame.
Yeah.
But then again, human beingswere built to be social, right?
deeply reliant on one anotherAnd so to be rejected deeply
painful.
Val (22:30):
It is.
but then like, how do you defeat
Kat (22:32):
How do you it.
Yeah.
Val (22:35):
about it with a, safe person, right?
Yes.
And then the shame dissipates,that's how you defeat shame.
Kat (22:40):
I think you're absolutely right.
And I think in that process too,you can learn how to discharge
shame yourself by offeringyourself compassion.
Val (22:48):
Sure.
Talking to yourself as you woulda good friend, if this good
friend told you the same thing.
Kat (22:53):
Absolutely.
Or sometimes like as how youwould talk to a child.
Right.
All those things.
We all need to be nicer to
Val (23:02):
We do.
And I think that we've talked inan earlier episode that shame
makes us do kind of like weirdthings when we're feeling
Kat (23:08):
shame Oh
Val (23:08):
we act out or, the reactions that come, if you're
feeling shame, like again, Ithink the way we're gendered,
right?
Oh, also I should probably saywe haven't done this in a while,
but like UHI my husband hasgiven full consent to whatever,
to whatever I wanna talk about.
He trust me.
So we'll have his, yes, Iconsent.
Come on
Rafick (23:27):
Yes, I consent.
Kat (23:29):
Well, wait, let me tell you this, because I, you know, I
continue to date people.
And so like, I was meeting upwith someone who I I'm, I often
will like, oh, you should listento podcast.
You know, because like, that'show I'm get our numbers up
Val (23:39):
half of our listeners are no
Kat (23:42):
people I'm trying to go and dates with anyway.
And they were like, am I gonnaend up on the podcast?
I was like,
Val (23:47):
really fuck around to find out, fuck around and find out
Kat (23:53):
we just people.
Val (23:56):
that's it people.
Kat (23:57):
You gotta go back to your story.
What was your story about we'velost it.
It
Val (24:00):
Oh, oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah because for people who havebeen socialized as males, anger
is an acceptable, probably oneof the only acceptable emotions,
and it's so wild that anger isthe emotion that's allowed.
Right.
I mean, for all the reasons wecould think about in the
patriarchy, right.
Because can be intimidating.
Sure.
It's it's not a vulnerable
Kat (24:20):
Yeah You're saying that shame and
Val (24:25):
And I think, well, the reaction, yeah.
Like you think you're gonna berejected or you're you're bad or
you're not good.
Ooh.
Yeah.
We had a fight about I wastrying to be like stop using my
brain so much.
Right.
That's something that in earlierepisodes I talk about you borrow
my brain all the time.
You gotta do some of thatyourself, right?
Yes.
And so that's a good shorthandfor that.
And so I was trying to get himan assistant, I mean, cuz he
(24:48):
runs his own company.
Right.
And he was just acting superweird about it.
Super weird.
And then I was angry too.
And he was mad like, like, likeshutting me down.
Like I don't want you in anypart of this business anymore.
I wish you would never doanything in this business again.
(25:09):
Right.
Good thing.
He's never gonna
Kat (25:10):
this
Val (25:11):
to this, but it is exactly what happened.
Get your own podcast, buddy, ifyou, wanna tell your side of
this
Kat (25:17):
the story,
Val (25:18):
but I was like, whoa, where's this anger coming from?
And he was so resistant
Kat (25:23):
to it Yeah.
Val (25:23):
We should do a whole episode on resistance.
Kat (25:25):
let's do that sometime.
Val (25:29):
and so I was like, damn, like you are getting so angry at
me.
And I think it was shame and Ieven said all the things KA, I'm
like, look.
I know this is harder for you.
I know this is not your favoritething, you know, the numbers,
the books.
I want to make your life easier,but I can no longer have this
pressure on me to do it or thinkabout it.
(25:50):
And so I'm trying to get someoneto hold that for you and to
prompt you, that's what a goodassistant would do anyway.
And I think he had a lot of,shame about
Kat (26:01):
Well yeah, cuz you can validate, see, this is his
thing.
This is why we need to startwith ourselves, I think.
Right.
Because you can validatesomeone's experiences and say, I
understand this and this andthis, but if that individual
hasn't given themselvespermission, to not be good at a,
B and C mm-hmm then we feelshame.
That's how that
Val (26:19):
Yeah Right It's true so,
Kat (26:21):
oh my gosh.
Like I don't care if you'reneurodiverse or not
neurodiverse, all of us need tolike learn how to be kind to
Val (26:29):
Yeah, that we're okay.
We're okay.
The way
Kat (26:32):
allowed to be exactly as you are,
Val (26:33):
so something that kind of was good about that was that
maybe the anger made himhyperfocus.
I don't know he's taking care ofit, but then he is like oh I
need to, I need to get somethings for the bookkeeper.
He just helped me.
And I was like, oh you mean thatthing that you never wanted me
to be a part of again, Then it's
Kat (26:51):
did you give him shit about it or you let it slide?
Oh,
Val (26:53):
Oh, I gave him shit this is how our relationship survives
laughing.
Oh, my making fun of stuff.
And then the other day he'slike, oh, PayPal's giving me a
blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, you know, it wouldbe really good in this
situation.
A virtual assistant.
Oh gosh.
I wish someone would've tried togot you one Oh,
Kat (27:12):
That's my favorite thing.
When you talk about yourrelationship is how often you
call him a fucker.
yeah.
Okay.
Fucker.
Oh, I love it.
I love it.
An
Val (27:20):
it's just so good.
we even ended an episode oncewhere I was like, yeah, cat,
fuck you.
And then you're like, yeah, keepit that way.
oh my gosh.
This is so good.
Okay.
I hate to stop us, but I thinkwe probably should just cut to
commercials real quick.
Okay.
Before this train goes off therails, but thank you for
(27:41):
listening and please support us.
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Val (28:39):
We're back.
Thank you so much for listeningfriends.
We love you and thank you forcoming around and rejection,
sensitivity, dysphoria.
Let's just talk a little bitmore about that because it is a
big thing to people with ADHD.
And we just wanted to say, you
Kat (28:52):
any neurodiversity,
Val (28:53):
any neurodiversity, any neurodiversity
Kat (28:55):
people with autism really experiences acutely too.
Val (28:58):
Yes.
Yes.
Kat (28:59):
Yeah.
And there's overlap in thosecommunities more and more people
are discovering that.
I thought I had ADHD, but oh, itlooks like I Oh my favorite
celebrity crush, you know HannahGatsby, she was first diagnosed
with ADHD and then later, all ofa sudden her life made so much
sense because she was like, oh,actually it's autism.
And so she has both.
Yeah.
Val (29:18):
There's also overlap with ADHD and O C D obsessive
compulsive.
Of course.
Yes.
And I feel like that's, the vendiagram I'm I'm living into on
this side
Kat (29:28):
Oh my God.
One time RAI was like giving youshit about a thing on the table.
And I was like, I could neverlive here.
And sometimes I think, oh yeah,a RAI and I are similar.
Right.
We are some similarities, butnot that I don't
Val (29:39):
don't have not that.
one
Kat (29:40):
Not really, no.
Leave a fucking piece of paperon the goddamn
Val (29:43):
It was a water glass.
in my upstairs office.
Nice.
I got a lecture.
Oh,
Kat (29:49):
Oh no.
Okay.
That's not
Val (29:53):
Oh, okay.
I have a story.
This is a good story, I'mnoticing that people that are
more of on the hyperactive side.
Yeah.
see a lot of, more of the O C Din that.
And some people with ADHD,especially like, people
socialize as boys, thedisgusting rooms, like my
brothers, my mom would come outwith like, you know, moldy yes.
Stuff under the bed Yeah.
And like the messiness and allthat.
(30:15):
But then there's another sectionof people with ADHD that there's
also this co-occurrence of OCD.
Where I think RAI has that, andI'm trying to give him language,
because I think that he's justlike, well, you're a slob and
this is the way things shouldgo, which is funny.
Cuz cat comes to my house allthe time and
Kat (30:32):
it's so nice here.
You guys it's like real, pretty,it's so pretty and nice and well
decorated and always tidy, likeoccasionally a little lived in
that's all a little I'm like wedon't record in my fucking
house.
Val (30:47):
like help me.
I think that he is finallyseeing that it might not be
good, but there, and again, ADHDis a paradox and sometimes like
people will say, I, I can't workat a messy desk.
I have to clean it first.
So people might think thatthat's procrastination, but I
think also there is this sort ofvisual element of it.
And if you do have someco-occurring O C D with it that,
(31:09):
right.
I saw a meme about like, How canI explain that the papers are
too loud and, how you can'tthink, because there's an open
jar.
Right.
That's something that doesreally, yeah.
It does occur in, some instancesin ADHD, so it is that paradox,
right?
Yeah.
So, so we live with that, right.
(31:29):
But there's also the strongemotion.
Yeah.
And giving people language forthat.
When we were first married, myhusband's pretty laid back.
And is he going until somethingreally upsets him, but I,
couldn't figure out, I was like,wait a minute.
Why are you so angry right now?
Did the edge?
Or was he like kind ofaggressive or whatever.
(31:51):
with ADHD, there is thisliability, I think
Kat (31:56):
Ooh, that's
Val (31:56):
I know, I think I'm using it right.
I don't know.
I'll take it out if I'm
Kat (31:59):
it real good
Val (32:04):
So this like up and down emotional, dysregulation is very
common and we don't, realizethat as well in ADHD.
Again, we just think it's theanger outbursts of like the
hyperactive male,
Kat (32:17):
right child.
Sure.
Yeah.
Val (32:19):
So one day I was getting ready for seeing my clients and
I had a cup of coffee and I putmy computer down.
Didn't see my, coffee mug and Ispilled a whole mug of coffee on
a cream colored chair.
I was so scared to tell my
Kat (32:34):
oh, Jesus
Val (32:35):
I know that
Kat (32:36):
that doesn't sound
Val (32:37):
good.
No I know I'm just a highlysensitive person.
So we gotta say that too.
But I came out and I said, okay,I don't need you to be upset
with me right now.
I have to start with clients.
I'm just telling you and I'mgonna take care of it myself.
I made a mess, but I, I spilledcoffee.
he tried his best cat I noticedhe was trying, but then I'm
(33:00):
like, look, I know that you'relike fuming, like, you know,
like a cartoon, the spoke comingout of his nostrils and I'm
like, look it'll come out.
I'll work on it.
And then went like, see, this iswhy I say no coffee in the
bedroom, which is not true.
And blah, blah, blah, blah,blah.
He was trying to make up a alogical reason of why he was
upset.
(33:20):
And so finally I was like, dude,no, you bring me coffee in bed
every morning.
Like, no, we didn't say thatthere shouldn't
Kat (33:26):
be my God.
Wow.
Look.
Yeah.
Val (33:28):
I, I touched him on the shoulders.
I said, look, just having strong
Kat (33:33):
that.
Val (33:35):
that's all you're having strong
Kat (33:37):
emotions.
Yeah.
Yeah
Val (33:38):
I love you.
And now go He is
Kat (33:40):
Wow.
He is so lucky to be married toyou.
I'm telling you.
Val (33:44):
and so, and so I was like that was a big difference in our
lives, of course, just to beable to say, Hey buddy, you're
having strong emotions.
Kat (33:55):
yeah.
Mm-hmm
Val (33:56):
yeah.
Mm-hmm is that's it you'rehaving a strong reaction to this
but I think it's reallyimportant for people with ADHD.
That's why I wanted to bringthis up that this emotional
dysregulation is a part of it somuch so that some people get
diagnosed, especially people whohave been socialized as women,
that they get diagnosed by theirdoctor with depression or
anxiety instead of the ADHD,which is the underlying thing.
Kat (34:18):
I was diagnosed with depression.
Yeah.
Before.
that.
Yeah,
Val (34:22):
So you put on this emotional dysregulation, strong,
reactions, right.
And then this fear of beingrejected.
Right
Kat (34:29):
I don't know how they like got the data that like people
that are neurodiverse experiencethis more acutely, you know, but
like the fact that they'vecollected all this data that
says, it's not just that they'resensitive.
Right.
Cuz you're a highly sensitiveperson.
You understand what that's like,but it's, it's almost like the
experience of being rejection isdevastating to a different
(34:50):
degree.
Val (34:51):
qualitatively.
It hurt more.
Yeah.
In their Bodies.
Kat (34:55):
Whoa.
Are you reading that?
Val (34:58):
I was just remembering
Kat (34:59):
it.
Val (34:59):
I was quickly trying to find the link to this one
article.
I
Kat (35:02):
like
Val (35:02):
but I can't find it.
Kat (35:05):
that's super funny.
Val (35:06):
That's my professional voice.
Kat (35:07):
Excellent.
I love it.
Yeah.
So then we thought, okay, solearning about this was really
helpful.
Like when I knew that I had it,I just knew to be on the watch
for it more.
And then again, when it mightshow up in my interpersonal
relationships, I was able tolike acknowledge for myself.
Oh, I think I might beexperiencing rejection,
sensitivity, dysphoria.
Like it might not be them orwhat they said or whatever.
(35:28):
Right.
Now I need to do something withthis, cuz it is, it's a big
emotional charge, right?
So this is where like my deeppractice of self-compassion
comes in and learning how toco-regulate with others.
So like if I have access toothers, right.
I can say, Hey, this is whathappened.
I was sort of like dinged inthis way is really ouchie.
You know, can you hold space forme as I like, you know, process
(35:49):
it or whatever it is I mightneed.
Yeah.
But if I don't have access tohumans, then I'm gonna do like a
self-compassion practice whereI'm just acknowledging, like,
this is very ouchie, this likesuper hurts.
And then just validate that I'mfeeling these things and that
judge them and that give them amorality,
Val (36:06):
Mm-hmm that's wrong
Kat (36:07):
for feeling it, and then sometimes there's this thing
where you have to let an emotionget as big as it needs to get.
Yeah.
So it can like move through.
Right.
And again, that's so tricky.
What?
Val (36:18):
well, I, sorry.
I'm like, trying to get the
Kat (36:20):
she's making a cute face.
What?
Val (36:21):
I, so I have this little notebook when I'm doing therapy.
When I come up with really well,what I think is funny stuff.
Look exactly what you said.
You gotta let it out.
When it comes to emotions, be adrama queen.
it ha you have to let it out.
Yeah.
Let it out, let
Kat (36:37):
go to
Val (36:38):
to its fullness.
Right.
So that it'll pass anddissipate, right?
Kat (36:42):
Yeah.
Cause otherwise it gets justshoved down in your body.
I mean, that's the truth.
That's how bodies work.
Like there's the book called thebody keeps score.
Mm-hmm and you know, there's alot of good research around this
now.
Like when we don't let thingsmove through, they get shoved
Val (36:55):
down mm-hmm
Kat (36:56):
socialized to do that,
Val (36:57):
which is, oh yeah.
Kat (36:58):
to So there's this really interesting book about like
trauma and spiritual awakening.
I read once.
loved it so much.
So basically they're saying thatlike animals when they're like
being chased or whatever, right.
Like the fight or flight happensto them.
Yep.
They'll like.
Once the danger has dissipated.
They'll like regulate they'llsort of shake and like, get that
(37:20):
to move through their system andthen they'll just be fine.
And then like you think about akid who experienced something
really hard or traumatic,naturally we know how to do this
thing where we like, sort ofshaking your convulsing, right?
Like people, humans naturallywanna do that.
That's our mammal You naturallywanna.
Physically, let the feeling getas big as it is and it'll move
through and then your, yoursystem will regulate itself.
(37:43):
But what we all have beenconditioned to do is to like
shut at the fuck
Val (37:47):
off
Kat (37:48):
mm-hmm And so then your body doesn't get to complete the
stress cycle.
So it gets shoved down insomewhere.
But if you can, you know, createspaces and relearn how to like,
manifest.
And so like this, thisparticular book again, it talks
about trauma and awakening, butlike, they teach you how to do
some meditative exercises whereyou like allow parts of your
body to shake and convulse.
(38:09):
Mm.
In order to complete a stresscycle, even from some old shit,
sometimes isn't thatinteresting.
The human body is
Val (38:17):
It is really interesting.
And like, why?
Oh, okay.
Yeah, this is why KA all thisstuff is kind of connected.
And we, we just talk about all
Kat (38:25):
stuff.
It's so fun,
Val (38:26):
but about how so stonewalling or emotional
cutoff, the silent treatment isso it's, I've actually started
to talk to clients about that.
That is a form of abuse and how,oh, I was my friend goes, oh,
you know, this movie X, Y, Z isreally good.
You should watch it.
Yeah, I like rage watched it.
Because my husband said hedidn't wanna talk about it our
(38:48):
fight anymore.
And I just I know what else todo in that moment.
And I knew I was gonna make itworse.
that was the night that I waslike, I guess this is the end.
Like, yep.
This is bullshit.
Kat (39:01):
You had a good run.
Val (39:02):
We had a good run.
And the next morning I I knewtoo, and there's probably some
horrible ones involved Right ButI was like, I think I'm gonna
feel different
Kat (39:08):
about
Val (39:10):
into the next morning.
I'm like I love him so Oh mygosh.
I love him so much.
But I was mad cuz I get reallyupset if he's shutting it down
and like if he had the emotionalintelligence, sorry, babe.
To like be like, I, can hearyou're upset Right?
This is one of those things inour relationship, the unsolvable
(39:31):
problems.
I love you.
Let's both go to bed and talkabout this in the morning.
Right?
I think that would've beenenough.
Just stayed up way past mybedtime finished this movie, but
I kind of did gave myself what Ineeded.
But I was so upset because hecut me off and
Kat (39:46):
I needed it out.
Right
Val (39:47):
So when you're talking about that stress cycle.
Yeah.
I, I think we've seen howdamaging the silent treatment
and a lot of people withchildhood trauma, I wonder why,
like I'm having such a hard timenow.
Well, yeah, because all of youremotions were repressed or you
weren't allowed to say them.
That's why it feels good to belike, fuck you.
Yeah.
to my husband in like a jokingway, that's not okay.
(40:11):
What you did, or I'm mad at youright now.
Or like you're being an asshole.
Kat (40:14):
Fuck you.
Yeah.
I think that's a beautiful thingwhen you can, like, in a almost
light way, acknowledge thatyou're angry at each other,
right?
Yeah.
That that's, I think that'sbeautiful.
This is but
Val (40:23):
not the end of the world.
And, but also like, please stopdoing that.
Kat (40:26):
Okay.
So you're talking about like,not stonewalling people, but
also I wanna like say the flipside is if you will just say, I
actually need some space on thisissue.
That's a big difference.
Val (40:35):
Right?
Mm that's the next thing I needto teach him.
Yes, babe.
I just need some space.
Yeah.
Instead of shutting me off.
Kat (40:41):
Right.
Because that's the thing like,yeah, you're welcome.
You're welcome.
That's for free.
So, but when we we're ininterpersonal relationships, you
do sometimes need to put itdown.
That's why you completed yourstress cycle that night by
yourself and in the morning youfeel better.
Right.
So sometimes we do need to comeaway from especially an
unsolvable issue.
Yes.
And so, and then you need to beable to feel your feelings about
it and they need to feel theirfeelings about it.
(41:03):
Yeah.
Like I had a disappointing thinghappen kind of recently with
this person that I'm, delightedby.
And so I noticed that like Ijust needed a beat and then I
think they probably needed abeat too.
And then we were just able, tocommunicate it though, you know?
I'm recognizing it because I hada recent, big breakup.
When I feel myself gettingcloser to someone, I kind of
keep, I keep hitting these wallsmm-hmm, you know, and I'm like,
(41:24):
Ooh, it's ouchie, oy ouchie tofeel yourself getting closer to
someone.
And so it's okay that we need itto stop Right.
So it's actually okay.
That he's like, I gotta shutthis down, but he also then
would benefit from, to be kindand loving to these other humans
in our life.
You just acknowledge it outloud.
Mm-hmm you're like, oh, I'mrecognizing I'm gonna need to
(41:46):
like be done with thisparticular issue.
Mm-hmm probably for this amountof time.
I'll circle back if I can.
Yep.
You're not stonewalling.
You're not cutting off.
You're not cutting offrelationship.
You are just saying this thing Ineed to be
Val (41:59):
Yep Can't talk about it tonight.
Kat (42:01):
In our interpersonal relationships, let's as humans,
right?
Like you all out there that arelistening, we would love it.
If you would not use a silenttreatment, cuz it's abusive
because it's an interruption tothe bond that you have with the
people in your life.
And it, it hurts and it feelslike a rejection.
And then again, circling back torejection, sensitivity,
dysphoria, it can be likeanother trauma.
Right.
And you're trying to resolvewhatever the issue is, but then
(42:22):
like you increase the trauma.
Right.
Val (42:25):
Mm-hmm I think, you know, we've talked about one time you
came over and I, I was probablymad at everything and you were
like, whoa, she mad at me andyou just said, Hey, I know it's
probably not it, but I just needto hear you say like, is this
about me?
Are you doing okay?
Are you mad at me?
And, I tell people, get yourfeelings on the outside.
Yeah.
Right.
So just communicating evenasking the question, knowing if
(42:45):
I'm more susceptible to havingthat rejection sensitivity,
Okay, maybe check in And I didfind, can I read this quote cuz
it's so good.
Oh please.
Are you okay?
Let's see.
Emotional dysregulation is whenperson feels an emotion so
intensely that the emotion takesover and cannot be subdued with
rejection, sensitivity,dysphoria person experiences,
extreme emotional sensitivityand pain triggered by the
(43:09):
perception real or imagined ofbeing rejected, teased,
criticized.
That's a big one, adisappointment to important
people in their lives.
disappointed in themselves whenthey fail to attain their own
standard or goals.
The emotional pain, the personexperiences is real and extreme.
(43:31):
Right.
And not easily dismissed.
Yeah.
The pain is so primitive andoverwhelming that people
struggle to find words todescribe it Yeah.
They can talk about itsintensity, awful, terrible,
catastrophic, and cannot findwords to convey the quality of
the emotional pain.
Kat (43:53):
Yeah.
It's intense.
Val (43:55):
So some of these ways that people protect themselves from
it.
So this is really goodinformation to know about
yourself, right.
They either become peoplepleasers, right.
Or withdraw and abandon theirown goals at a fear of failure.
The other common weight ofprotecting ones, self is to give
up trying anything new, unlessone is assure of quick and
(44:17):
complete
Kat (44:18):
Yeah, my, yeah.
There's so many tos
Val (44:20):
top the notion of
Kat (44:21):
on that.
About that one.
Val (44:22):
Oh yeah.
Kat (44:23):
I'm not gonna start something unless I'm immediately
good
Val (44:25):
at unless I'm immediately good at it.
The notion of trying and failingor being turned down is just too
painful to risk.
Yeah.
They don't go on dates.
They don't apply for the job.
They don't speak in meetings ormake ideas known to anyone.
So I mean, if you have anybodyin your life that, that sounds
likely, I think what arevelation to know, that's what
they're experiencing it and thatit's different.
(44:47):
Yeah.
Than maybe if you'reneurotypical and feel some of
that
Kat (44:51):
Absolutely So again, like when we talk about interacting
with other human beings,different isn't wrong, it's just
different.
And then again, cultivating apractice of self-compassion with
yourself, where you're like,Hey, I am allowed to exist in
the world as I am.
It makes it a whole lot fuckingeasier to be like, and you are
allowed to exist in the world asyou are.
And then you find creativeproblem solvings for those
(45:14):
there's like something stuck.
Right?
Yeah.
Mm.
Val (45:18):
And the humans around you, Spending the time to cultivate
some deeper, safe relationshipsand talk through those things
and also like maybe making itokay.
That maybe you don't like to trya lot of new hobbies cuz of fear
of failure.
I don't feel like I need toconquer my fear of jumping out
(45:38):
of airplanes or like bungeejumping.
Fuck that.
No, some people are like, Idon't like the feeling that
something is coming over me.
No, I'm perfectly fine withthere being things in my life
that I'm very fearful of.
Kat (45:49):
So don't Do
Val (45:50):
em so don't do'em.
Yeah.
So if you wanna stay with yourone or two little hobbies that
you're good at.
Yeah.
Do it.
You wanna stay at your job andyou're doing okay.
Or maybe there's baby steps in
Kat (46:00):
between.
Right.
Well, and that's the otherthing, like, there could be some
like internal driver, like, boy,it keeps showing back up for me
that I wanna do this thing.
I am fucking scared.
Right.
For all these reasons.
And so then that's when you getto like, you just be present
with what you're feeling.
Right.
We learn how to be kind toourselves.
And then you're like, okay,well, do I need a little support
around this?
And like, how can I get thatsupport?
(46:21):
Right.
So, oh my God know, thy selfknow thy self know thy self.
One more thing popped in myhead.
I wanna circle back quickly, butwhen we're having a conflict,
right.
Conflict resolution is somethingthat is very interesting to me.
And I love talking about it.
I'm deeply optimistic.
Like it's part of my nature.
Yeah.
And I'm like, you love me.
I love you.
(46:41):
We can figure something out.
Right.
Mm-hmm so instead of the silenttreatment, because you've become
overwhelmed, right.
First of all, again, there'sthat self knowledge of like, I'm
overwhelmed, but there's thisgreat word called saturation
point where you, again, you'reflooded with emotion.
Right?
And so you need to be able tohave a practice where you can
sort of step outside yourselfjust enough to acknowledge like,
(47:02):
oh, this is the saturationpoint.
I absolutely cannot do anymoreat And then, because it's a
kindness to the people in yourlife that you love, you say that
out loud to them.
I've reached my cent generationpoint.
Val (47:15):
it on the outside Yes
Kat (47:16):
And so then again, it's just more language to be like,
oh, I'm gonna need to circleback.
Right.
Or like, can we sleep and seehow we feel in the morning,
whatever it might be.
Oh, don't you think it's so dumbthat people were ever like,
don't go to bed
Val (47:31):
Yeah, no.
Like scientifically too, we tellcouples if you're flooded, it
takes at least 20 minutes foreither the adrenaline or for
your heart rate to go down.
So you can, you can take in newinformation.
Absolutely.
So it's, very wise.
Kat (47:45):
Yeah.
And again, if you have therejection sensitivity is for you
and the dysregulation of youremotions, it can be longer than
Because you're flooded.
And so the reaction to thestimuli can just be that much
more heightened
Val (47:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, friends.
Oh our other ADHD episode, ourfirst one is one of our most
listen to episodes.
Yeah.
And we've gotten such feedbackright.
About People weeping, like notcrying.
Several people have used theword weeping and I'm just, you
know, touched that.
(48:19):
We're able to bring somecatharsis or some healing.
Some people saying I feel soseen, or this explains my
relationship.
So I hope that happened againtoday.
Kat (48:30):
Thank you so much.
Val (48:34):
have you reached your
Kat (48:35):
I know I'm like, did I use all my fucking words?
Is that possible for love you?
Val (48:42):
cat?
You meet your saturation, playcat
Kat (48:46):
I love you.
Val (48:46):
I love you, Rachel.
I love you.
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