June 21, 2022 • 47 mins
Kat and Val jump into what it looks like to live an “embodied” life. Can we cultivate a practice of centering our body’s wisdom as we make decisions - big and small? What if trusting your gut was something we could all get better and better at? With their characteristic cackle-laughter and vulnerability Kat and Val share all their hard won wisdoms with as much swearing as possible and a big dose of good-natured playfulness.
*This podcast is for entertainment purposes only
Find us on Instagram:
Kat and Val Podcast
Val's offerings:
So This is Love Club
Reset Yourself for Love Program
Instagram So This is Love Club
Kat's offerings:
Fat Liberation Art -Fat Mystic Etsy Shop
Instagram Fat_Mystic_Art
Additional resources/definitions referenced in most episodes:
Jill Johnson Young- grief talker
Five Stages of Grief
Intuitive eating.org
NAAFA National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance
Tell Me I'm Fat - This American Life
Prentis Hemphill
Vitamin D gummies!!!!!!
Adrienne Maree Brown
Pleasure Activism; The Politics of Feeling Good
Come as You Are: The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life
Book by Emily Nagoski
Attached - Book by Amir Levine and Rachel S. F. Heller
Understanding Dopamine: Love Hormones And The Brain
Enneagram
The Four Tendencies
Myers Briggs Personality Profiles
Highly Sensitive People (HSP)
Fat Liberation Movement
Lipedema
Exvangelical/deconstructing from Christianity
ADHD
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Val (00:00):
Hi
Kat (00:00):
Hi.
How are we
Val (00:01):
now?
Oh, you know, we're doing, weare right.
We're doing, we.
Kat (00:06):
that's.
Yeah.
It's like being, we're being,we're being
Val (00:08):
we're being
Kat (00:09):
we're alive.
We exist.
Val (00:13):
we keep
Kat (00:14):
air in and out of our
Val (00:15):
and we're still using humor to just kind of soothe a lot of
yeah.
Things aren't we?
Kat (00:21):
It's, you know, being alive is kind of a motherfucker
Val (00:24):
So today we're gonna talk about the body mm-hmm so we were
just getting some comfort items,some fuzzy, soft.
Kat (00:31):
Yeah.
I'm hugging like a big chunkysweater and it just makes me
feel good.
And I've got like a fuzzy yeah.
Val (00:38):
Getting ready for today's for days journey.
Yeah.
By the time this gets out, wewill have launched two big
episodes.
Kat (00:45):
Yeah.
They feel really big to me.
They feel big to you too.
Val (00:49):
Probably bigger to you, but yes,
Kat (00:53):
right.
So we talk about grief.
Yeah.
And, you know, and I feel likethat's the collective, and
there's lots of things thatwe're experiencing communally
that create grief and loss.
Right?
Yeah.
And then, yeah, we went rightinto the breakup episode And I
talked all about that.
at the end I was like, oh shit,is this helpful at all?
And
Val (01:13):
what did I just do?
what is this?
Is this helpful course.
It's just
Kat (01:16):
me having my own cathartic event.
Val (01:18):
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
Mm-hmm I think I, I entered itin sort of sharing some of my
own stories from the past, butalso from like the therapist
point of view, since I saidsure.
And we had a really great laughabout how hyped up I got
Kat (01:31):
Yeah.
The part where you're talkingabout the dog is my favorite
thing.
I like realist for that.
Val (01:37):
So many.
Kat (01:37):
times
Val (01:38):
Gosh, that's okay.
I was giving east coast energy,which is really funny, cuz it
really is different than westcoast energy.
Sure, sure, sure.
And most of the time we.
We can find each other here inCalifornia.
I just know the way someonetalks, not even an accent.
Yeah.
Just their energy.
I'm like you're from the eastcoast somewhere.
Aren't you?
And it is sort of this littlenostalgia, this bond.
(01:58):
That's fascinating.
It reminds me of home of all myfamily.
Right.
Of all this like unnecessary
Kat (02:04):
sorry.
Val (02:06):
it's like aggression and excitement.
Yeah, totally.
And.
Have you heard the thing abouthow, like, let's see the west
coast is nice, but not kind.
And the east coast is kind butnot nice.
And it's more of that, Heyasshole, get out of the middle
of the street.
You're gonna get it.
Kat (02:21):
definitely I'm here for that energy.
I
Val (02:23):
It feel, feels so good.
It feels really good leaving mybody.
I'm I'm connecting to myancestors.
You are.
Yeah, you are nice.
And you told me a little bitabout something you did after
the breakup episode, how youdoing after that?
Also, I did a really weird cutto commercials and we made a
joke about it, but listeners,you know, I'm a sensitive
(02:43):
person, but for some reason itwas like, I blame the church for
that.
Ha, you were just vulnerable.
and let's end there.
then it
Kat (02:50):
is kind of a churchy thing where like, you end on this
weird somber note, like you endin a minor key
Val (02:57):
oh yeah.
Cause it's emotional, but thenI'm not realizing like our
commercials are all pep, so, soI, and literally
Kat (03:03):
about finding love.
That's so fucking hilarious tome.
Val (03:07):
Yeah.
So, but you know, you, I amtending to you in a gentle way.
Kat (03:12):
Oh yeah.
They know Val they know you'relike the best I tell them every
week.
Yeah.
Val (03:17):
But I'm highly, I'm a highly sensitive person though.
I can't stand like hurtingpeople even on accident.
So you're doing okay.
Kat (03:23):
Yeah.
And I did, I did, you know, wewere talking about rituals too,
as a part of, you know, thatepisode.
the other night I was.
I kind of worked up about somethings and I could feel emotions
moving around.
And I, I did have some sort oflike, I don't know, like, energy
and like, anger probably.
And it was just more angsty.
Yeah.
And so instead of like sad griefloss it felt angsty.
(03:45):
And I was trying to figure outlike, well, how do I engage with
this?
It was making me restless, youknow, that restless,
Val (03:50):
feeling.
Oh, I do.
Kat (03:51):
So I ultimately, it was like close to bedtime, but I
decided to like, Write likestream of consciousness, just
fill a page comes out.
And my pen written outta ink andI ended up like grabbing this
marker.
So I'm writing words and I'mwriting really big and I'm
saying all these things.
And then like, I just write ontop of the writing until it just
looks like this sort ofabstract, scribble art piece.
(04:12):
And then I, I keep writing,like, it's just still kind of
moving through me all thisenergy.
And so like the page ispractically black and I was
like, whoa, I flip it over.
And I write a little more on theother side.
And then I'm like, yeah, I gottaburn this I had to look up when
the next full moon was
Val (04:28):
of course,
Kat (04:29):
of course.
I was like, that's a thing.
You burn stuff on the full moon.
And so I look it up and it wastoo many days away from and I
was like, I'm too fuckingimpetuous.
So I'm like, oh, I know I'llburn it now.
Like literally right.
The second I like open mywindow.
I like had a little like metalcontainer.
And I turned on my, like, I havelike an air purifier.
Yeah.
Cause right.
We have all these fires inCalifornia.
(04:49):
now Yeah.
So I have all this going atonce.
and I just ripped this wholething up and piece by piece,
just burn it.
And I was like, yeah, this ishelping.
This is good.
And then I kept the ashes andthen when the moon comes, I'll
scatter them.
It's whole thing.
And you have the bust of bothwords.
You can be completely impetuousand you can still honor the,
full
Val (05:08):
Can we, please do like a full moon, something together
Kat (05:12):
Oh
Val (05:12):
full moon.
Kat (05:13):
Yeah.
That's a good idea Know YeahWould you burn good idea.
I don't know.
Yeah.
What'd you burn?
Oh, we
Val (05:16):
like
Kat (05:17):
You burned something.
Bring your ashes, let bring,roll our ashes.
Val (05:21):
I just wanted to be together.
Yeah.
So we're in Florida, there'stons of people at the beach at
the full moon.
Kat (05:26):
okay.
Val (05:26):
Reenergizing their
Kat (05:28):
That's a thing
Val (05:29):
oh, maybe we can like, get out on the the water on the
Kat (05:31):
God, that would be amazing.
Yeah.
Val (05:34):
Okay, listeners,
Kat (05:35):
You guys all really wish
Val (05:36):
we'll give you wish
Kat (05:37):
you were friends with Val.
We'll
Val (05:38):
We'll give you secret coordinates.
Kat (05:41):
That's a good
Val (05:42):
They're embedded in this episode.
No, just kidding.
Kat (05:46):
Oh my God.
That would be the most fun.
I wish that I knew how to doshit like that.
Val (05:51):
okay.
Maybe in the future.
We'll do like a full moon.
Oh, I think we're just getting agreat idea.
Right now.
We are like a full moongathering with three questions
with Kenton, Val
Kat (06:00):
we'll be like, what are you learning about?
Val (06:02):
What?
Bring something you
Kat (06:03):
for you.
Let's have some pleasuretogether.
Val (06:07):
Yeah.
Bring your ashes.
Kat (06:08):
Pre burned.
Just ashes.
Val (06:10):
We don't, we don't want
Kat (06:11):
we don't wanna a lawsuit.
We don't wanna fuck with yourfire.
You guys deal with your own
Val (06:14):
Please bring your ashes.
This is California.
And the three ounces, containerTSA approved.
yes.
Yeah.
Kat (06:22):
Oh thank you.
Thank you.
All of you, our listeners, it'ssuch a joy to be able to do all
this stuff and share this withyou.
And in our minds, you really arelike hanging out with us
Val (06:31):
And
Kat (06:31):
we know some of you all, but like, I know there's plenty
of strangers on here too.
And I'm like, you guys are ourfriends too.
Val (06:37):
yes, Yes.
So reach out, just say hi, youcan find us on Instagram to
yeah.
Or leave a comment or a reviewon apple podcast.
we really appreciate that.
And we thank you for everybodywho yeah, we do reached out.
Kat (06:50):
So how about before we jump into like this great topic we're
doing today, we throw to just
Val (06:56):
jump into it.
Ah, you are so genius.
Cat max.
why?
Thank you.
Kat (07:01):
Oh, you.
We'll be right back.
Val (07:04):
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Kat (07:22):
It's like you're a
Val (07:22):
dating doula.
Exactly.
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Grab your spot and get more infoat.
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Kat (07:34):
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Val (08:00):
okay.
So today we thought that we'dtalk about the body.
Yeah.
And I have a little funny storyfor you
Kat (08:05):
Oh tell us your funny story
Val (08:07):
about it.
Well, you know, I'm just being alittle bratty here and actually
I'm just, cleansing the, theshared spiritual space of our
friendship.
Am I getting this off our chest?
I
Kat (08:17):
like it when you're Brad you know, that right.
I
Val (08:21):
Feel bad.
But a while ago I came to catand I was like, cat, you're
always saying, just listen toyour body, just listening to
your body.
But, how do you do that?
Let's talk about that.
And then your response.
I wish it was an email, cuz I'dread it back.
Cause I don't think you fullybelieve me, but you were like.
They're adults.
I don't
Kat (08:40):
they
Val (08:41):
to hold their hands.
They could figure out how to doit.
Like they could Google it.
I was dumbfounded.
I'm sorry.
It's
Kat (08:47):
very dismissive.
I can hear that now I mean, mybrain was doing something else,
The way I understood thatrequest was I think I have an
aversion to all the stuff outthere.
That's too guru.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
And like the 10 steps to blah,blah, blah.
And I was like, fuck all that SoI think that was me having like
an overreaction so like thisvery helpful thing that you
wanted to do for all ourlisteners.
(09:08):
And I was like, no and I heardyour feeling
Val (09:13):
well, I thought the dog was a pretty reasonable idea.
It is.
Kat (09:18):
It's a really good idea.
And it was really good when Ihad it later myself.
Val (09:21):
Exactly.
Fuck you cat.
Yeah.
So that was just a realcleansing.
Fuck you.
It was so great.
So cat sends me an E email.
Have a great idea for our nextepisode.
I'm like, oh yeah, fuck you.
Yeah, oh, I should have said youalready vetoed this cat.
You already vetoed this idea.
I'm sorry.
We can't do it.
Oh no, it's all good.
Okay.
So we've decided our collectivewisdom brought us.
(09:44):
To this body episode.
Yes.
And oh, I started to say, thatyou pushing back on the guru
narrative is very helpful forme.
Oh good.
This is about our experience.
Yeah.
And we happen to have someknowledge, right.
I don't need to like study forevery episode.
Yeah.
And this is about us, ourprocess, our friendship, our,
yeah.
I don't wanna say messiness.
It's not that messy, this ismore about our experience.
(10:05):
entertainment folks.
Right.
that has been really freeing aswell for me.
Right.
So I wanna recognize that too.
Kat (10:12):
that's so cool.
Yeah.
Cuz like, I think I just have,at this point, my life a strong
distaste for anyone who's like,I'm the authority on this and I
know all the things, right I'dmuch rather it be like, yeah,
these are the things I'velearned along the way.
And if it resonates with you,you take it fine.
Also you're a grown ass adultperson.
right.
Val (10:28):
That's what she said, folks.
When I wanted her to tell youabout body stuff, she's like,
they're grown ass people.
Well,
Kat (10:35):
and I know that sounds so funny, but like.
I do trust us as individuals onour journey I have such a deep
trust in my own body.
And even like, I don't know,this sounds kind of Woohoo, but
the universe to sort of bringthings to cross my path at the
right time.
I met someone recently that theyhave really big book FOMO, I was
telling'em about a book I wasreading and they're like, oh my
God, is that good?
And like, it really is.
Oh.
And I was like, I don't havebook FOMO.
(10:56):
There are so many amazing booksin the world.
There's no way I could read themall.
Yeah.
So I just gave that up and thenlike books sort of organically
crossed my path and I'm like,oh, I'm attracted to that when
I'm gonna read it.
And I get great stuff out of it.
Sometimes I'll read the samewonderful books several times
over, you know what I mean?
I can't read everyth.
Sure.
And so I just allow like, youknow, the universe to be like
here, try this book and I'mlike, oh, I love this book.
(11:17):
Thank you.
So I think I'm sort ofprojecting that onto other
people and all of our journeys,all of us have stories where
something significant acrossedour path and it was meaningful
and resonant in
Val (11:26):
that moment.
Mm-hmm and it directed
Kat (11:28):
our path.
Right?
Yeah.
And so that's why I don't wannabe like, Hey, listen to me,
here's 10 steps of how I learnedto do the thing.
And now you can do the thingjust like I did.
Val (11:37):
Yeah.
Well, I think, yeah, we're,we're doing a good job of
holding things loosely.
Yeah.
Saying, Hey, this is our story.
Right, right.
Because we're just telling ourstory.
We're not here necessarily toteach, but my darling catch
mm-hmm you have a lot of wisdom.
You really do lean into gettingknowledge from your body.
So I think you do have things toshare, but so what we're gonna
do today is we're gonna talkabout, how to actually make
(11:57):
peace and, and have your body asa home, right?
Yeah.
Then we're gonna talk about justlots of different spiritual
practices that we've tried, thatbody practices.
Yeah.
Right.
And then I want you to talk moreabout like, how to actually
start these body.
Check-ins like, if someone hasnever done it before totally.
And then How to live a life ofbody led decisions.
Kat (12:16):
it's
Val (12:16):
gonna be good.
Doesn't this sound good?
It's a journey cat.
It's not a list.
Okay.
Yeah.
The first place we need to startis actually getting back into
and that journey.
Right.
So you wanna start there?
Kat (12:27):
Well, okay.
So we spent two episodes talkingabout our relationship with our
body and fat And we're reallyclear about this.
It doesn't matter what size ofbody you live in.
We live in a culture that hasundermined all of us, having
peace in the body.
We
Val (12:41):
Oh, can you say that again, please?
We
Kat (12:43):
live in a culture that has undermined any of us having
peace in the body we Yeah.
And it's quite toxic.
And so all of us, it doesn'tmatter what size body you live
in.
All of us need to do the workmm-hmm to unlearn some of these
internalized messages aboutConstantly critiquing your body
and feeling like it's notacceptable.
(13:03):
Right.
And so we do that by engaging ina process of welcoming in body
neutrality.
Yeah.
And so like it's a journey anddepending on you know, who you
are in your temperament and allthese other things, it can take
a long time.
Right.
So let's just be gentle withourselves.
And of setting the bar at like,I'm gonna love my body, like
Lizzo loves her body.
Val (13:22):
Mm-hmm
Kat (13:22):
right.
Start with okay, well, if I'mhaving a critical thought about
my body, can I move towardsbeing neutral?
And then I think a reallyhelpful piece of engaging in
this journey of like, okay, I'mjust gonna be neutral about my
is you.
It is just the framework is thehome I have.
Right.
This is the home I inhabit
Val (13:41):
it's me until,
Kat (13:42):
until I die.
Yeah.
And so this is a very worthwhileeffort.
Val (13:46):
Yes.
You know,
Kat (13:47):
We think about how much, like time and energy you put
into trying to buy a home orlive in a, space and you make it
your own, you do all thesethings.
Right.
Well, come on people, weactually deeply inhabit the
physical form
Val (14:01):
Yeah.
Kat (14:01):
And allowing it to be a place You know, top shelf
priority shit right
Val (14:06):
Sure.
Yeah.
And, and you and I were talkingabout how, evangelical
Christianity yeah.
There was all the purityculture.
Right.
Yes, your body's a temple, butthe, emphasis is on your spirit.
It's about your soul beingsaved,
Kat (14:19):
right?
Val (14:19):
And yet there's also this white patriarchal vision of what
especially look like, and evenhow men should Right.
If we're talking but I felt likeI had to come back into my body
mm-hmm and the more messagesthat I heard and internalized,
right.
About how bad my body was, howit shouldn't look this way.
Right.
The less connected I was to mybody.
Exactly.
And therefore I was eating andexercising and making decisions
(14:43):
so disconnected from my body.
Cuz there was so much shame.
Yes.
When I would connect with mybody and actually feel it.
Kat (14:50):
Exactly.
Wow Yeah.
Okay.
I just wanna say too.
So you mentioned like ourChristian background, but I see
it even in some like morespiritual.
Circles two people like to referto our physical body as like a
meats for our spirit.
Right.
And I, I don't like that either.
Our body is not a fucking meatsack.
No, It is incrediblysophisticated.
(15:10):
Right?
You think about just the systemsof the body and all the things
that are happening without ourconscious mind to keep us alive.
Val (15:16):
Right.
would, you
Kat (15:17):
that's a wonderful spouse just for gratitude right there.
You know,
Val (15:21):
it's almost like our body, I've never thought of this
before, and maybe I'm full ofshit, it's almost like our
bodies are an outward
Kat (15:29):
manifestation of even
Val (15:31):
like the inside.
Like if you think about, yeah.
Like if, if really we're soseparate, you getting
butterflies, when you meetsomeone oh.
Or nervous totally.
Before an interview thatshouldn't happen.
If your body and your mind andyour emotions are separate,
they're
Kat (15:44):
not, no, we're
Val (15:45):
intertwined.
They're not, the brain gutconnection.
Yeah.
You know, we've seen that thepolyvagal theory about your
vagus nerve.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Really just regulating yourwhole body because of trauma and
emotions and thoughts.
Exactly, exactly.
So,
Kat (15:59):
yeah.
And then you just, you look atDNA, right?
So like
Val (16:02):
the idea
Kat (16:03):
that so trauma can be stored in your DNA for
generations past so I just wannasay our bodies are masterful
mm-hmm If I have a guru, it's myown physical body, Our bodies
can be profound teachers to us.
if we will give them their dohonestly, really.
And so we start with well, Igotta make peace.
(16:23):
I'm just gonna be neutral aboutthis body of mine.
And then what happens is youbegin to open up the dialogue
and engage in and really inhabityour body.
And then you start to live alife where all the decisions you
are making are really likecentered in.
Does this feel good in and wow,it's a way different way to
Val (16:42):
So the call is to actually come back into your body, right?
Like connect to it.
Yeah.
Trying to be morenon-judgemental yeah.
Be at peace.
Right.
We've talked about radicalacceptance last couple And love
it too, I think, right?
If plants can grow, mm-hmm,differently because of how we
speak to them.
Imagine your body.
I've been challenged by that.
Like, oh, I broke down and criedonce actually about it.
(17:05):
Yeah.
Just that I didn't realize howupset and angry I was at my body
for failing me.
Right.
In so many ways.
Right.
Even with the infertility,that's when I realized it oh,
right.
Where I was mad at my body forbeing in so much pain.
Yeah.
And let's face it too.
Right.
It's the pain.
Not just be, not being able towork, but the pain.
And then I don't even know if Ifelt that that was a failure,
but then to add on theinfertility that, oh, you failed
(17:28):
me again.
Kat (17:28):
Mm.
Val (17:29):
and I think I realized, oh, I wasn't giving myself
compassion.
I was really angry at my body.
Kat (17:33):
Well, again, that's the thing, like, I don't know anyone
who was raised in an environmentwhere like kindness as the
default to self is modeled.
Val (17:42):
Ooh.
Kat (17:42):
Like, and that's what I try really hard to, Live and then
model to my kids is that beingkind to ourselves and being
aware of what our needs are, butreally like self kindness.
It is a radically different wayto live.
My first thought in my head whenI'm experiencing something is
not to berate myself, it's tooffer kindness to you know?
(18:03):
And that doesn't mean I don'tstill experience all these
negative emotions and I, youknow, I cry a lot.
I mean, it's not that it savesus from how hard it is to be a
human in the world, but itabsolutely softens I've created.
Safe place on the inside.
And we'd like to share somethings of like, maybe you could
(18:23):
too.
So I had this really hugeepiphany was that my default
really is to be kind to myself.
And so when we were Christians,we were doing ministry and
there's all this, I'm gonna usethe word propaganda, but there
was all this indoctrinationabout what did it mean to be
like Jesus in the world.
Val (18:38):
Right.
Mm-hmm how to be loving and kind
Kat (18:39):
And so we like got all these fucking skills to be
really kind in the world to movethrough the world.
The way that we thought Jesuswas telling us to, okay.
That required effort and work.
And then skip ahead where I'vehad this deep practice of
self-compassion where I'mgenuinely not unkind to myself
internally, and so all of asudden being kind and generous
(18:59):
with other people did not takeany effort.
It just is the overflow.
Right.
And that doesn't mean like,sometimes I'm anxious or I'm
kind of activated.
And so like, I can still beshort with people.
I'm still human, but the largeroverarching true thing is that
I'm not striving to be kind inthe
Val (19:17):
world Ah, it's coming more naturally out of your own.
Kat (19:19):
It's just the overflow.
It's the natural overflow.
Sure.
Of just being kind to myself.
Sometimes when we want the endresult before the process, I'm
not saying, Hey, be more kind inthe world by being kind to
yourself first.
That was just oh, look bonusSure.
What I'm saying is it's worth itto be kind to yourself.
Like just your home, you deserveto have a home.
That's lovely.
(19:41):
Yes.
That's full of softness andgentleness and play and
pleasure.
Yes.
Val (19:45):
That's our
Kat (19:45):
birthright And then what happens is as the glorious
overflow is that there's lesssuffering in the whole fucking
world.
And then as we engage with otherhuman beings, we just are softer
and gentler.
Yeah.
Or more playful or morelighthearted you know,
Val (20:02):
I love it.
Kat (20:02):
It's better.
Val (20:03):
Can I say something about internalizing messages?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So if you've never heard thisterm before, I talk about it a
lot with self-confidence mm-hmmor your beliefs about yourself.
Sure.
if your validation is alwaysexternal, it's not inside.
Right.
You always have to be getting itfrom the outside.
Of course.
Right.
So someone says, oh, you'repretty, or you're smart because
you don't believe it on theinside.
(20:24):
Yeah.
You are Dependent on those onthe outside.
Right.
So I talked to them about takingthose things that maybe they
kind of wanna believe aboutthemselves or people have said,
yeah.
And then it's like internalizeit and I'm motioning, like
eating something.
Like, it's almost like you'reeating it.
You're bringing it on theinside.
Yeah.
So it resides here.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And so that even in the face ofsome other messages, right.
(20:45):
it's internalized, right?
Yeah.
It's on the inside and now youbelieve it.
Okay.
Kat (20:50):
where I wanna say like all of us out there, we can add our
own creativity to how to dothat.
Right.
the howto part Cause like whatyou're just describing.
Remember in the other episode,you're like have some rituals,
fucking a people make up agoddamn ritual.
Like what sounds fun to you?
Do you wanna like take a glassof water, take a Sharpie,
marker.
And write the word, love allover the, the glass.
(21:11):
sure.
Why not?
That's fun.
There's some fucking study.
That's like the molecules of thewater change.
What the fuck.
I don't know how that works.
And So then you're just mindful.
You're just like, I am drinkingthis in, I am welcoming this
into my body.
Val (21:25):
Right?
Ooh, that's fun.
Kat (21:26):
Like, do you wanna like, get yourself like the best
fucking cupcake and the wholecity you live in and be like,
this is me loving myself.
And this is this like gift tomyself.
This is pleasure.
This is love.
This is joy.
This is like the child likeness,all the things.
This is what I'm saying.
Like, I don't wanna tell youwhat to do.
I want you to like, own yourjourney.
Yes.
So like
Val (21:45):
You trust yourself.
You're saying what are the ideasthat are coming into your mind
that, oh, I think that wouldfeel good.
Yeah.
Like,
Kat (21:50):
and how can you be a little bit like.
I recognize I have dissonanceabout being in my body and
having a body and having bodyneutrality.
Okay.
So you start there wherever youare, like, try to just go to the
mat with yourself and decide,get a real, like, feel where am
I in this journey?
Mm-hmm where would I like to be?
And then like, what's it gonnatake to get there, add some
creativity.
(22:11):
so, you know, we see mindfulnessa lot and really, you know I do
have a deep meditation practice,but do you know what it looks
like in practical, likeapplication?
I lay down in my bed.
that's it, I'm just laying in mybed because my chronic illness
and the level fatigue Iexperience regularly, I lay in
my bed a lot.
Val (22:29):
Mm.
And
Kat (22:29):
so sometimes I'm just letting my mind scan my whole
body, taking some deep bellybreaths.
and I'm just saying nice thingsto myself.
just internally, sometimes outloud.
Like some people like a lot ofstructure.
I don't like a lot of structure,so I just make it up in whatever
feels fun and resonant and, andnecessary in the moment.
(22:52):
We talked about grief, you ridethe waves.
Like all of life feels like thatto me.
So like, whatever in thispresent moment feels like it's
gonna be a way for me to engage.
Then that's the thing I'm gonnalike, kind of grab onto in
Val (23:04):
that practice.
Mm.
So the, the inverse.
Yeah.
So sometimes we haveinternalized messages about our
body, right.
Mm.
We all have, it's like, they'reinside.
Right.
And so you be carry thosearound.
Yeah.
And I think it's the process ofexpelling the ones.
Yeah.
That you're deciding.
No, I'm actually not gonna carrythis around.
I don't believe that aboutmyself anymore.
Yeah.
Kat (23:24):
Maybe see, sometimes this is the tricky thing, somewhere
in your body, you do believe it.
And so you just acknowledgethat.
And that's where I offercompassion.
Like sometimes I I'm reallyspecific, there's a belief that
in my brain I know is not true.
Yeah.
Right.
Okay.
So one would be I do not deservelove because of the body I
inhabit mm-hmm right.
Many of us feel that mm-hmmThere's a belief because we've
(23:45):
internalized it from the culturewe live in.
So just acknowledge if that'sreally there.
Yes.
And then you offer compassionand you just say, I'm so sorry
that you're not worthy of lovebecause of the body inhabit and
you just say it to yourself.
Right.
And instead of trying to Pasteover it right away, because you
gotta, again, this is theradical acceptance.
You gotta really own.
What's true still, right?
(24:07):
If you jump to I love myself, Iknow I'm beautiful.
Right.
You're sort of bypassing thisother true thing that needs to
be dealt.
with that's you gotta get allthe way underneath it.
Val (24:16):
Well, I think that's why people are having a hard time.
Yeah.
Like body positivity.
No, like right.
What happens when like my pantsdon't fit and it is that
acknowledging.
Yeah.
The pieces like that are stillthere.
Yeah.
Right.
It's not this binary.
We wanna be.
Yes, no.
On off.
Kat (24:30):
I remember being in like dressing rooms and it being
gross torture.
Oh.
Because of those internalmessages, right?
you're putting clothes on yourbody.
They don't, you don't feel likethey look good.
They don't feel good.
Maybe they're too tight.
You have to change sizes again.
And oh my God, it would be sucha downer.
But if I would've known, thenwhat I know now I would sit
myself down in the change and Iwould cross my hands across my
(24:52):
Catherine, You are allowed youare.
worthy as you are.
You are welcome here.
You are home and you are safe.
And we're gonna buy whatever weneed to buy for you to feel
good.
And it's okay.
It's okay.
That it's different than it wasmm-hmm I think I just healed my
(25:14):
younger self Yes.
Yeah.
Val (25:15):
Oh, yes.
Kat (25:17):
That's what it looks like to offer compassion to the pain.
Mm-hmm right.
To not cover over it, to not belike, you know, does that right.
That
Val (25:25):
makes sense.
It does.
Yeah, it does.
and I think that's where somepeople are getting caught in.
Like, why do I have to always bepositive about my body?
You don't, and I love this quoteif it helps anyone else.
It said if you're only lovingyour body, when you think it
looks good, that'sobjectification, right?
Not love.
Kat (25:44):
Right?
Yeah.
And again, love might be a bitof a leap for some of us.
And so you start with neutralitywhich is just, I am allowed to
be as I am.
Val (25:52):
Yep.
Ooh.
Kat (25:52):
allowed to be as I am.
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah.
Val (25:55):
So from this great foundation,
Kat (25:57):
right?
Mm-hmm mm-hmm
Val (25:57):
then we just thought we would talk about some of the
different body practices.
Yeah.
If you're like, how do I, how doI get more in touch with my body
and notice it yeah so we justwanted to list some off and talk
a little bit about them and thenguess what you're grown as
adults
Kat (26:13):
you can see what resonates with you and what you would like
to play with and experimentwith.
Maybe
Val (26:17):
we need some Mer that's like, I'm a grown as adult, like
cat says, I'm a grown ass adult.
I get to do
Kat (26:23):
I like it better if it's your grown ass adult, like the
person who's reading it, youknow, like come correct.
You're a grown
Val (26:28):
as adult You
Kat (26:29):
You know what I mean?
I know what I am
Val (26:31):
just
Kat (26:32):
fuck you.
You're a grown as adult go liveyour life.
Val (26:34):
Okay.
So what are some of the thingsKA that you've done
Kat (26:37):
okay.
So we, we touched on somealready, so there's mindfulness
and there's self-compassion andwe talked about what that looks
like.
I love deep breathing as a veryquick get in my body.
And then one of the things Iread a while ago, and again, it
just, jumped out at me and itresonates with me.
There's lots of different waysto do deep breathing.
Yeah.
What I like is to try to fillmy, whole belly with air mm-hmm
(26:58):
I like am pushing air into thelowest part of my
Val (27:01):
belly mm-hmm and
Kat (27:01):
that's just one of the things that I like.
And then sometimes I'll addmindfulness to that.
Right.
So you're breathing in, youknow, good, beautiful things,
love and acceptance.
And then you're exhaling thingsthat don't serve you anymore.
Old beliefs, anything like that.
Right.
Mm-hmm
Val (27:13):
Can I say, some people really don't, like the deep
breathing or like am I justgonna sit here and breathe?
That's why I, like, we talkedabout the different kinds of
music, the sound bads.
If I'm focusing on the musicright.
And I'm breathing to it.
Mm-hmm that gives me somethingelse to think about.
Totally.
And that's pleasurable for
Kat (27:29):
Yeah.
Val (27:29):
Yeah.
But I talk to clients about.
The one big deep breath.
Oh yeah.
You're in a situation you'restarting to feel flooded or
upset.
Just a one big deep breath and along exhale.
Right.
So that long exhale to give youthat big,
Kat (27:43):
relaxation.
Yeah.
I I don't do it over and overagain.
Like I do it just enough to belike, oh yeah, I'm back in my
body.
Now also napping.
Like, I can't emphasize thisenough, but an adequate amount
of rest.
Right.
Like sometimes we are, in like aautopilot and just stopping.
Right.
Yeah.
And being like, oh, actually ifI lay down, if my head is just,
(28:03):
parallel to the earth, thatsounds more wooo than, I mean it
to be, but there's somethingabout orienting yourself
differently in the world
Val (28:10):
I think maybe just one thing that could be really
helpful, a, a first key step tocoming back into your body.
Mm-hmm that we use with peoplewho dissociate, right?
Is grounding exercises.
Right.
Mm-hmm, something very simple asjust putting your barefoot feet
on the ground and feeling it.
Kat (28:28):
You can do that also just by touching yourself, in a
repeated pattern, you can touchyourself anywhere, but I like to
touch myself on my chest andjust kind of gently pressing
Val (28:37):
a little bit.
Yeah.
You were talking about like,just do it feels intuitive folks
but no, there is wisdom.
There is deep, deep wisdom inall of us.
Maybe, even from your cultures,that some of these practices are
deep.
Like the breathwork practices ofcourse come from like deep, deep
wise cultural heritages thathave had this wisdom for a long
(28:58):
time.
Right, right.
but I do remember researchshows, I guess if you hold the
back of your skull.
Mm.
And, and also on your heart.
Yeah.
Like above your heart.
Yeah.
Those two places will reduceyour anxiety incredibly quickly.
So I guess I wanna point thatout.
Instinctively you're like this.
Feels good.
Right.
So that's what we're pushing.
Yeah.
And also it's kind of cool.
At least for me to find out oh,that's really a thing.
(29:19):
Right.
Like how I said, I stopped theyoyo, like going on diets.
Cause I was like, I just can'tdo it.
Yes.
Yeah.
I just can't go through thatride anymore.
And to find out that isn't goodfor you.
Right.
So I was like, oh wow.
Like intuitively I was like, no,I can't do
Kat (29:31):
up and down.
that's has the healthramifications negative health
outcomes versus just having moreweight on
Val (29:36):
your ground Correct?
So the grounding too, you canground through any of your
senses, feeling a fuzzy blanket,right.
Smelling your favorite sense,right?
All that stuff.
Naming three to five things inthe room.
You kind of talked about a bodyscan where we just kind of go
from the top of your head to thesoul of your feet and just
notice.
I mean, what a fuckingrevelation, I mean, of actually
(29:58):
paying attention to your bodyand going know, oh, let me check
in with my head.
Right.
How is it feeling?
Let me check in with myshoulders.
What a fucking revelation.
We check on everything else inour lives.
Kat (30:08):
I know.
It feels really nice.
Again, I'm napping, I'm layingdown whatever.
and I like to use my imaginationso much.
I find it to be an incredibly SoI picture a light going from the
top and sort of scanning me andI go down, I watch it.
Sometimes I'll even just imaginethat it's warm.
Imagine the
Val (30:23):
light is one.
Kat (30:24):
And So you, bring this light down that the muscles that
it's coming in contact with,shoulders.
Val (30:31):
Mm-hmm
Kat (30:31):
and then you just take it all the way down your feet.
You come right back up again.
You add some deep breaths,That's why I'm like a huge
proponent of adding yourimagination to any of these
practices, amplifies it'sEfficacy.
Val (30:43):
yes.
There's so many great.
I'm sure listeners, you, you allare into some really cool shit.
Yeah, you can imagine a lightyeah.
And changing colors and going inyour body.
And I mean, there's tons of waysthat you can do all that.
The progressive musclerelaxation though.
If if you hold a lot of tension,mm-hmm, just going from the top
of your head down through yourbody, in different muscle
groups.
(31:03):
Yeah.
Clenching them and thenrelaxing.
Oh,
Kat (31:06):
I do that one too.
That's a good
Val (31:07):
like for going to sleep at night sometimes just even
noticing oh, wow.
I didn't know.
and it helps you actually relax
Kat (31:14):
Exactly.
Val (31:15):
Slowing down.
Yeah.
Which by how fast you and I bothtalk you'd be surprised, but I,
I know for me, slowing down,mm-hmm just noticing that
mindfulness does help that justtaking that pause, saying, huh,
what's happening here.
Taking that extra beat.
Right.
I even tell clients like thatone big, deep breath will just
(31:37):
give you that beat to noticethings.
And then you can kind of ask howis
Kat (31:43):
right?
yeah.
Val (31:44):
Any kind of body movement.
Kat (31:46):
Oh yeah.
Val (31:47):
We wanted to talk about
Kat (31:48):
Well, totally.
So like, yeah.
I, whatever it is that you liketo do again, like when we think
about body movement, so many ofus.
Maybe some traumatic experiencewith exercising in order to
change and right.
So you just, you go on a journeywith that too.
And you're like, well, well,does any of this spring
pleasure?
Does it bring joy?
Does of it feel fun?
Like a game, like when you're akid and then just do the things
that make you feel happy, makeyou feel
Val (32:09):
good.
Yeah Dancing, stretching.
Yeah.
Yoga do yoga.
Kat (32:13):
Anything that moves your body gets you back in your body,
as long as your intention iswith it, right.
Versus That other oldconditioning was like I have to
punish my body and
Val (32:23):
get it to conform.
Yeah.
And I talk about that a lot andI'll say it again, that a big
seminal moment in yourrelationship with your body is
the first time you realize thatexercise helps reduce your
anxiety mm-hmm or makes yousleep better.
Right.
Like, or whatever it is, totallylifts your mood.
Kat (32:40):
I love swimming so much.
Like swimming is my, my top tierthing.
Someday I'm like a house with apool.
It's
Val (32:46):
my life, all my life goals.
Kat (32:48):
like I live in this marginalized body and it doesn't
move freely in a lot of spaces,I move really freely in the
water and I float without anyeffort, which is just so fucking
fun.
It feels like a superpower whereliterally I can't drown.
Yeah.
Yes
Val (33:01):
yes.
I did notice that the other dayI came from a pickle ball and my
body was just like,
Kat (33:07):
was
Val (33:07):
it was talking to me.
Right.
And I got in the water and I wasfloating a bit and I was Mm.
But I hadn't really thoughtabout even just pickleball, if
you're new to the podcasts andget used to pick a ball.
But I didn't really think aboutit getting me back into my body
actually.
And also, I mean, I guess Iwanna say shout out to all of
(33:27):
our, like chronic pain warriorsright out there.
Because being connected to mybody, it means that I'm feeling
the pain.
Yeah.
And, you know, with chronicpain, it's a lot of constant
pain that maybe isn't reallygiving us new information.
Right.
So there's also I guess a cost,at least for me cuz I actually
do struggle with disconnect formy body.
(33:49):
Right.
So I'm not thinking about mypain, right.
To like connecting actuallythat's a question on the
dissociation scale.
Yeah.
Can you.
Not feel pain for long periodsof Yeah.
We could also recognize thatdissociating or disconnecting
from your body sometimes is agood coping mechanism Well,
okay.
It's something we all do it.
(34:10):
So we all do it.
We can
Kat (34:11):
it.
like the fact that we have theability to do it means that
it's, it's probably good that wecan do it
Val (34:16):
Right Oh, I mean, for trauma, it's probably saved a
lot of people's lives of course.
But we all do it.
If you like, don't rememberdriving the rest of the way home
that's that's a form ofdissociation Oh, I
Kat (34:25):
thought that was like glitch in the matrix
Val (34:26):
whenever that happened.
ah,
Kat (34:29):
you're like, fuck, where am I?
Val (34:30):
Yeah.
Kat (34:31):
I do that kind of a
Val (34:32):
a lot actually.
Okay.
So now that you like are sort ofgetting regular information with
your body mm-hmm can you tellus, walk us through how do you
start for someone who's neverdone done it before?
Explain your process of how youcheck in with your body.
Like how do you start thatdialogue?
Kat (34:47):
Yeah.
Okay.
So here's actually I'm gonnalead us all in a little
meditation.
cool So Yeah, you canparticipate if you want to.
No pressure, you know, if itokay.
But I want you to think about,yeah.
Do what Val's doing.
Take a nice deep breath, if youwould like to.
If you're not driving, maybeeven close your eyes.
How wonderful if you're driving,don't close your eyes.
Val (35:06):
So put your Tesla on.
Kat (35:08):
Self-driving so take a nice deep breath in, and then I want
you to imagine a time in yourlife, like an actual lived
experience, where you just feltreally, really at ease and
really peaceful and maybesomething pleasant, like maybe
it was a fun time, but yourbody, for sure, you felt
expansive, you felt happy, youfelt free, you felt It doesn't
(35:30):
have to be every single one ofthose things.
Just any of those things, any ofthose positive feeling?
Now you're there in that memory.
Now I want you to do a body scanin the memory.
And so just, I want you to note,like, are your, are shoulders
relaxed?
Are they down?
Do you feel like you have somespace in your chest to breathe?
Is your head light versusfeeling heavy?
(35:50):
Like what are sensations youfeel, you know, how do your legs
feel?
How do your hands feel?
How do your arms And So you justtake that in for a moment.
And I want you to just like lockin those thoughts, those, the
sensations you're able to detectin your physical body, in a good
memory, right.
And a positive experience.
And so you just make littlenotes.
(36:12):
This is what it feels like Okay.
Another little cleansing breath.
Now we're gonna do something.
This one's less fun people, butnow we're gonna do it again.
We're gonna remember a timewhere you felt some anxiety.
You're not gonna bring up a hightrauma memory.
You're gonna bring up a memorywhere It was stressful.
It was not good.
It was not your favorite.
There's some things you can'tcontrol.
Maybe there's some negativeself-talk in the mix, but now I
(36:35):
want you to do that body scanagain.
And I want you to notice what itfeels like in your head, in your
So we're gonna note that, right?
That's what it feels like whenI'm doing something that is
(36:57):
maybe out of Right?
So now we have an opportunity togo out with friends.
That we love.
They're great.
But we're also aware that we'vebeen run down and we're
exhausted and we're trying todecide, do I stay home and do
like self-care things?
Or like just binge watch TV?
Or do I go out with friends?
(37:18):
Right.
And so here's what you do, youjust imagine.
Okay.
I'm gonna go out with my friendsand you picture yourself there
and you see how it feels in yourbody.
Does it feel expansive?
Does it feel like that firstexercise we did?
Does it feel kind of free?
Does it feel light?
Does it feel like, oh, this isnourishing me or does it make
you feel tight?
(37:39):
Like the second thing we did,oh, I just don't wanna be in
public.
I don't wanna be out in theworld and you have those other
sensations.
So if we can start doing thisfor more and more decisions that
we
Val (37:48):
make,
Kat (37:49):
just being aware, like.
Our bodies are really, reallysmart.
Right.
So I could see that scenariowhere you're like, yeah, I need
to go and spend some time andconnect with humans.
That's gonna feel so good inMm-hmm and then also this
scenario could be like, oh,Nope, it's not this week for me.
I really need some alone time.
These other stresses in my lifehave depleted me, I'm depleted.
I'm gonna do nothing.
(38:09):
And that's, that's the thingthat's making me feel most
expansive and
Val (38:12):
Is it such an important skill if you think about it,
right?
Yeah.
I wish we had that, soundeffect, like the, eh, the break
screeching.
Yeah.
Because how many times have wesaid yes to something?
Well, you haven't done it in awhile cause
Kat (38:25):
it's perfect
Val (38:26):
this
Kat (38:26):
No,
Val (38:27):
I I'll say yes to my husband about something and then
we're doing it.
And I'm
Kat (38:31):
dread
Val (38:32):
dread.
I'm like, or yeah, I'm in a badmood.
Like I should't have said yes inthe, the first place.
Right.
So when we're able to do thisright, and get all the data from
our bodies, We could be moresafe for the humans around us
too.
Right.
Kat (38:43):
And then to get to live with less and less dread dread
is its own kind of suffering.
I have very little space for
Val (38:47):
dread anymore.
Kat (38:48):
And then once in a while, and again, like there's all the
nuance here, right.
It's not so black and white.
So there are sometimes thingsthat I have to do what I want to
do, cuz it serves this othergreater goal.
Yeah.
Right.
I had some adulting to do andsome executive function stuff
just yesterday and I was feelingso much anxiety about it and it
was a little unfamiliar and itwas just.
(39:09):
Stuff on the computer.
And sometimes I can be a littleinsecure about my skillset and
navigating all that.
So I called up my friend and Iwas like, Hey, can we do some
body doubling mm-hmm right.
Because when I did the littleexercise of how can I do this
thing?
This making me feel dread andanxiety.
Oh, well, if I add in my friend,even just on a FaceTime call,
their presence like calms
Val (39:28):
down and.
Kat (39:29):
then I can Do the thing yeah.
That I don't want to do.
But I want The conclusion of it.
I want it to be
Val (39:34):
done.
Right.
Ooh.
Yeah.
So you, that's a couple things,right.
So we've talked aboutco-regulation right.
That an awesome skill to knowwhen you need another person to
help you exactly regulate youremotions.
We do it all the time.
Also body doubling is somethingvery helpful for people with
ADHD.
Yeah.
Or any of us where if you haveanother person around Yeah.
Funny enough.
We talk about intuition.
(39:54):
Yeah.
I used to tell the admin at myjob, are you done with your
work?
Can you please just come sit inhere?
Right.
I, I used to tell her I'm asocial doer.
Yes.
Which is fucking body.
I beat a body doubler.
I know my other friend sayslike, oh, can we parallel play
yes.
At a coffee shop to just get our
Kat (40:11):
work done.
Val (40:11):
Exactly.
So it's very helpful foreveryone.
Yeah.
And then the other skill youmentioned you coin the phrase
should energy.
Oh, should when we do thingsthat have, should it is a
collapsing energy.
Yeah.
Kat (40:22):
It creates dread.
Val (40:23):
if we're doing things just out of a should.
Right.
But there are things that weshould do.
Yeah.
Or that we want to do.
Like you said, the bigger wantsso connecting.
So even though it is probablystill like a, I should pay my
taxes.
Right, right.
Like, like it's stilltechnically a should getting out
of the should energy.
Right.
And then connecting to thegreater goal Find the want,
because the want is expandingenergy Yeah.
(40:45):
So connect to the want.
Yeah.
So you used the lot good foryou.
The
Kat (40:48):
more.
Oh, yay.
That gave me chills I'm sofucking smart.
Val (40:52):
are you really smart?
You're really smart This is whywe
Kat (40:55):
that Thanks for bringing that one back around That's so
good.
Val (40:57):
I just wanna do full disclosure for the for our
listeners.
I, I could not picture anythingwhile you're doing that kinda
editing
Kat (41:03):
it
Val (41:05):
I have a really hard time, but I came to you once.
And I said, oh cat, should I dothis thing?
Or is it just too much?
Should I wait instead of givingyour opinion, which I love you,
didn't like go in your head andwell, you were just like, look,
picture yourself doing it.
Yeah.
And I think that time you werelike, imagine if you were
falling off a cliff, are youskydiving?
Like, is it invigorating or isit terror?
(41:28):
Like oh, right.
So think of yourself doing thisthing.
And then you said, pictureyourself not doing it.
Right.
And for me it was anexhilarating leap, not a
dreadful leap.
So I'm like, okay, thanks.
Yeah, I'm gonna do it.
that was really helpful.
Kat (41:40):
I'm so
Val (41:41):
Yes Thank you.
You're amazing.
But I think I do it, where I'mlike, okay, I was planning to go
to pick a ball and there'ssometimes where I'm like, oh, I
know I'm exhausted.
I should just go.
Right.
Because I will feel better thanjust being in my body.
There's that?
You talked about that angstyenergy.
Yeah.
Right.
Where like it's pain making youtired, not exhaustion, tired.
That's a whole nother thing.
And then there's sometimes whereI'm like, oh, I'm feeling really
(42:03):
tired.
Maybe I should stay home.
And then I go anyway, and then Iwas like, no, this is not
turning out.
Good.
And so I kind of go back to,okay, how was that feeling?
Right.
That maybe I could have decidedthe no mm-hmm and so you
sometimes just have to do it.
Yeah.
And then go, oh, okay.
Right.
Kat (42:20):
Yeah.
We're all learning as we go.
Right.
Val (42:23):
I mean it's an experiment.
Kat (42:24):
Yeah.
It's all an experiment.
So yeah.
At trial and error, all thestuff, make it playful, turn it
into a game, all the things.
Yeah.
Yeah just be nice to yourself inthe process.
You're just, trying to get somenew skills.
You're like, Hey body, wannatalk?
tell me what you need body.
Val (42:40):
Oh.
And then being able to speak itout to other people.
Yeah.
I had some fear.
Oh.
About getting into, we had akayak and So we have a lot of
neighbors that could see us.
I think because I, I was feelinga little clumsy my body was in a
lot of pain.
They're all gonna be watchingme, like get in the kayak and
fall in the
Kat (42:56):
water
Val (42:56):
or something Sure Right.
And my husband tries to get thereal, like hard line, just do it
Baba.
And I was starting to feel it inmy body Uhhuh.
And I'm like, no, no, no.
I think that the more pressureyou give me, the more it's gonna
make it worse, then I'm gonnacry.
oh.
And then he's like, Okay.
Okay.
I won't do that.
Okay.
so then, okay.
And I don't remember the rest,but I just remember that as I
(43:19):
actually said out loud.
Yeah.
What was going on in my
Kat (43:22):
body?
Yes.
Val (43:22):
Yes Yeah.
It wasn't just that I was actingweird.
I talked about that last time.
When, you don't let things out,then you're just doing weird
stuff in your relationships.
Yeah.
I was able to tell him what wasgoing on.
Totally.
And then he was able to adjust.
And, and I got in and I didn'tfall in the water.
yeah.
Kat (43:39):
Okay.
So it is part of my regularvocabulary.
Now I notice I say it a lot.
I'm like, oh, that feels good inmy body.
That does not feel good in mybody.
these are just skills.
They become second nature.
You don't have to think about itafter a while it's like driving
or riding a bike.
You don't have to, it's not aconscious thought all the time.
Val (43:54):
can I tell yesterday that little behind the scenes?
I sure.
I FaceTimed you.
Yeah.
And then you're like, I'm reallycranky right now.
Yeah.
And then you're like, what aboutif for an episode it's like,
everything is terrible and wejust rant and Rav about how
terrible everything is.
And then we somehow laugh aboutit at the end and, and right
away, I was like, that
Kat (44:13):
does sound
Val (44:15):
sound good, but it didn't feel
Kat (44:16):
in my mind right
Val (44:17):
body was like why
Kat (44:18):
don't laugh
Val (44:20):
That does not feel good in my body.
Oh my gosh.
So that's just coming upregularly Me too Oh,
Kat (44:23):
it's such a good way to articulate boundaries with each
other too.
Right?
I mean, cuz what are you gonnacontradict?
How it feels in my body, youknow?
And so when you have thatknowledge, you have access to
clear boundaries.
You have access to a yes and ano it's powerful.
Val (44:38):
It's it's powerful.
I know.
Oh, it's so
Kat (44:40):
good.
It's so
Val (44:41):
Oh, this episode is so good.
Mm-hmm So we're at the end.
Yay.
I like the end.
Kat (44:48):
But this is where we get to talk about.
What's
Val (44:50):
Yeah.
Cuz we've been talking aboutwhat we've been learning, all
the stuff we've learned, whatwe've been shifting around so
much shifting around.
Yeah.
What's bringing us pleasure.
Kat (44:58):
Yeah.
What's bringing you
Val (44:59):
You know, what's funny.
Okay.
What's bringing me pleasure isI'm allowing myself to buy
products, Uhhuh that I reallyneed.
Yeah.
That I use every day and willmake me feel more comfortable.
Kat (45:09):
Cool.
Val (45:10):
like new pickleball socks.
Like a new ice pack.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
That that's not split open ohyeah.
Yeah, like new pickleball shortsthat feel really good.
Like a hug.
And some other stuff but it wasjust like, no, I'm using these
things every day.
Yeah.
Oh, I was thinking about, it'sprobably time to change bras.
(45:32):
Yeah.
I still enjoy a bra.
Kat (45:35):
that makes one
Val (45:36):
us we kinda got, got away from them during the pandemic.
Yeah.
Oh, new underwear.
That just feel good.
Of
Kat (45:41):
Of course.
That's care of your physicalbody.
Isn't it beautiful It is
Val (45:46):
Aw, well it's beautiful.
What is bring you pleasure
Kat (45:49):
sitting here with you
Val (45:51):
laughing.
Oh, that was your answer last
Kat (45:52):
time.
Was it really?
Yeah Jesus Christ.
I don't have anything else rightnow.
this podcast is what I'm holdingonto for dear fucking life's
Val (46:02):
I wish could see she's holding onto her mic stand.
Like it's a, buoy in the ocean.
Oh man.
Well, how insensitive me?
I'm
Kat (46:09):
I'm
Val (46:09):
sorry.
How insensitive?
I'm like no, pick somethingelse.
Like this is all I got
Kat (46:16):
well, okay.
I will add to it then, buthonestly, I have a close knit
group of friends that arebrilliant at humans.
You get to be, you're obviouslyone of those dear darling close
friends, but I have people in mylife that I can be my full,
authentic self with that.
I can tell all of my storiestoo.
Like you weren't the only personthat was privy to the fact that
I was in a really bad moodyesterday It was a yucky, yucky
(46:38):
mood.
And so that does bring a lot ofpleasure and comfort, right.
So
Val (46:43):
getting all that love so funny She's still holding on
really tight to her
Kat (46:47):
I'm like Ugh It's a hard season of my life.
I've cultivated safety insidemyself.
And I, like I said, I'm stillhuman, but like, it feels really
nice when that also manifest aslike attracting humans that love
me and I get to be all the wayme.
So just people that I get to beall the way myself with and that
feels really good.
It brings me lots of pleasure.
that
Val (47:07):
all right, KA until next time.
Kat (47:09):
Oh, I love you.
We love you guys.
Thank you.
Val (47:12):
you and listeners for being
Kat (47:13):
on this journey with us.
Thank you.
Good luck on your body
Val (47:16):
journey.
Tell us, tell us all your bodyjourney.
Yeah.
Okay Tell us about
Kat (47:20):
We.
Bye.
Val (47:21):
Bye.
Hi
Kat (00:00):
Hi.
How are we
Val (00:01):
now?
Oh, you know, we're doing, weare right.
We're doing, we.
Kat (00:06):
that's.
Yeah.
It's like being, we're being,we're being
Val (00:08):
we're being
Kat (00:09):
we're alive.
We exist.
Val (00:13):
we keep
Kat (00:14):
air in and out of our
Val (00:15):
and we're still using humor to just kind of soothe a lot of
yeah.
Things aren't we?
Kat (00:21):
It's, you know, being alive is kind of a motherfucker
Val (00:24):
So today we're gonna talk about the body mm-hmm so we were
just getting some comfort items,some fuzzy, soft.
Kat (00:31):
Yeah.
I'm hugging like a big chunkysweater and it just makes me
feel good.
And I've got like a fuzzy yeah.
Val (00:38):
Getting ready for today's for days journey.
Yeah.
By the time this gets out, wewill have launched two big
episodes.
Kat (00:45):
Yeah.
They feel really big to me.
They feel big to you too.
Val (00:49):
Probably bigger to you, but yes,
Kat (00:53):
right.
So we talk about grief.
Yeah.
And, you know, and I feel likethat's the collective, and
there's lots of things thatwe're experiencing communally
that create grief and loss.
Right?
Yeah.
And then, yeah, we went rightinto the breakup episode And I
talked all about that.
at the end I was like, oh shit,is this helpful at all?
And
Val (01:13):
what did I just do?
what is this?
Is this helpful course.
It's just
Kat (01:16):
me having my own cathartic event.
Val (01:18):
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
Mm-hmm I think I, I entered itin sort of sharing some of my
own stories from the past, butalso from like the therapist
point of view, since I saidsure.
And we had a really great laughabout how hyped up I got
Kat (01:31):
Yeah.
The part where you're talkingabout the dog is my favorite
thing.
I like realist for that.
Val (01:37):
So many.
Kat (01:37):
times
Val (01:38):
Gosh, that's okay.
I was giving east coast energy,which is really funny, cuz it
really is different than westcoast energy.
Sure, sure, sure.
And most of the time we.
We can find each other here inCalifornia.
I just know the way someonetalks, not even an accent.
Yeah.
Just their energy.
I'm like you're from the eastcoast somewhere.
Aren't you?
And it is sort of this littlenostalgia, this bond.
(01:58):
That's fascinating.
It reminds me of home of all myfamily.
Right.
Of all this like unnecessary
Kat (02:04):
sorry.
Val (02:06):
it's like aggression and excitement.
Yeah, totally.
And.
Have you heard the thing abouthow, like, let's see the west
coast is nice, but not kind.
And the east coast is kind butnot nice.
And it's more of that, Heyasshole, get out of the middle
of the street.
You're gonna get it.
Kat (02:21):
definitely I'm here for that energy.
I
Val (02:23):
It feel, feels so good.
It feels really good leaving mybody.
I'm I'm connecting to myancestors.
You are.
Yeah, you are nice.
And you told me a little bitabout something you did after
the breakup episode, how youdoing after that?
Also, I did a really weird cutto commercials and we made a
joke about it, but listeners,you know, I'm a sensitive
(02:43):
person, but for some reason itwas like, I blame the church for
that.
Ha, you were just vulnerable.
and let's end there.
then it
Kat (02:50):
is kind of a churchy thing where like, you end on this
weird somber note, like you endin a minor key
Val (02:57):
oh yeah.
Cause it's emotional, but thenI'm not realizing like our
commercials are all pep, so, soI, and literally
Kat (03:03):
about finding love.
That's so fucking hilarious tome.
Val (03:07):
Yeah.
So, but you know, you, I amtending to you in a gentle way.
Kat (03:12):
Oh yeah.
They know Val they know you'relike the best I tell them every
week.
Yeah.
Val (03:17):
But I'm highly, I'm a highly sensitive person though.
I can't stand like hurtingpeople even on accident.
So you're doing okay.
Kat (03:23):
Yeah.
And I did, I did, you know, wewere talking about rituals too,
as a part of, you know, thatepisode.
the other night I was.
I kind of worked up about somethings and I could feel emotions
moving around.
And I, I did have some sort oflike, I don't know, like, energy
and like, anger probably.
And it was just more angsty.
Yeah.
And so instead of like sad griefloss it felt angsty.
(03:45):
And I was trying to figure outlike, well, how do I engage with
this?
It was making me restless, youknow, that restless,
Val (03:50):
feeling.
Oh, I do.
Kat (03:51):
So I ultimately, it was like close to bedtime, but I
decided to like, Write likestream of consciousness, just
fill a page comes out.
And my pen written outta ink andI ended up like grabbing this
marker.
So I'm writing words and I'mwriting really big and I'm
saying all these things.
And then like, I just write ontop of the writing until it just
looks like this sort ofabstract, scribble art piece.
(04:12):
And then I, I keep writing,like, it's just still kind of
moving through me all thisenergy.
And so like the page ispractically black and I was
like, whoa, I flip it over.
And I write a little more on theother side.
And then I'm like, yeah, I gottaburn this I had to look up when
the next full moon was
Val (04:28):
of course,
Kat (04:29):
of course.
I was like, that's a thing.
You burn stuff on the full moon.
And so I look it up and it wastoo many days away from and I
was like, I'm too fuckingimpetuous.
So I'm like, oh, I know I'llburn it now.
Like literally right.
The second I like open mywindow.
I like had a little like metalcontainer.
And I turned on my, like, I havelike an air purifier.
Yeah.
Cause right.
We have all these fires inCalifornia.
(04:49):
now Yeah.
So I have all this going atonce.
and I just ripped this wholething up and piece by piece,
just burn it.
And I was like, yeah, this ishelping.
This is good.
And then I kept the ashes andthen when the moon comes, I'll
scatter them.
It's whole thing.
And you have the bust of bothwords.
You can be completely impetuousand you can still honor the,
full
Val (05:08):
Can we, please do like a full moon, something together
Kat (05:12):
Oh
Val (05:12):
full moon.
Kat (05:13):
Yeah.
That's a good idea Know YeahWould you burn good idea.
I don't know.
Yeah.
What'd you burn?
Oh, we
Val (05:16):
like
Kat (05:17):
You burned something.
Bring your ashes, let bring,roll our ashes.
Val (05:21):
I just wanted to be together.
Yeah.
So we're in Florida, there'stons of people at the beach at
the full moon.
Kat (05:26):
okay.
Val (05:26):
Reenergizing their
Kat (05:28):
That's a thing
Val (05:29):
oh, maybe we can like, get out on the the water on the
Kat (05:31):
God, that would be amazing.
Yeah.
Val (05:34):
Okay, listeners,
Kat (05:35):
You guys all really wish
Val (05:36):
we'll give you wish
Kat (05:37):
you were friends with Val.
We'll
Val (05:38):
We'll give you secret coordinates.
Kat (05:41):
That's a good
Val (05:42):
They're embedded in this episode.
No, just kidding.
Kat (05:46):
Oh my God.
That would be the most fun.
I wish that I knew how to doshit like that.
Val (05:51):
okay.
Maybe in the future.
We'll do like a full moon.
Oh, I think we're just getting agreat idea.
Right now.
We are like a full moongathering with three questions
with Kenton, Val
Kat (06:00):
we'll be like, what are you learning about?
Val (06:02):
What?
Bring something you
Kat (06:03):
for you.
Let's have some pleasuretogether.
Val (06:07):
Yeah.
Bring your ashes.
Kat (06:08):
Pre burned.
Just ashes.
Val (06:10):
We don't, we don't want
Kat (06:11):
we don't wanna a lawsuit.
We don't wanna fuck with yourfire.
You guys deal with your own
Val (06:14):
Please bring your ashes.
This is California.
And the three ounces, containerTSA approved.
yes.
Yeah.
Kat (06:22):
Oh thank you.
Thank you.
All of you, our listeners, it'ssuch a joy to be able to do all
this stuff and share this withyou.
And in our minds, you really arelike hanging out with us
Val (06:31):
And
Kat (06:31):
we know some of you all, but like, I know there's plenty
of strangers on here too.
And I'm like, you guys are ourfriends too.
Val (06:37):
yes, Yes.
So reach out, just say hi, youcan find us on Instagram to
yeah.
Or leave a comment or a reviewon apple podcast.
we really appreciate that.
And we thank you for everybodywho yeah, we do reached out.
Kat (06:50):
So how about before we jump into like this great topic we're
doing today, we throw to just
Val (06:56):
jump into it.
Ah, you are so genius.
Cat max.
why?
Thank you.
Kat (07:01):
Oh, you.
We'll be right back.
Val (07:04):
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But you're ready to give up ondating it's.
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Kat (07:22):
It's like you're a
Val (07:22):
dating doula.
Exactly.
I'm here to guide you on yourjourney to love.
Grab your spot and get more infoat.
So this is love.club.
Yay.
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(07:56):
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Val (08:00):
okay.
So today we thought that we'dtalk about the body.
Yeah.
And I have a little funny storyfor you
Kat (08:05):
Oh tell us your funny story
Val (08:07):
about it.
Well, you know, I'm just being alittle bratty here and actually
I'm just, cleansing the, theshared spiritual space of our
friendship.
Am I getting this off our chest?
I
Kat (08:17):
like it when you're Brad you know, that right.
I
Val (08:21):
Feel bad.
But a while ago I came to catand I was like, cat, you're
always saying, just listen toyour body, just listening to
your body.
But, how do you do that?
Let's talk about that.
And then your response.
I wish it was an email, cuz I'dread it back.
Cause I don't think you fullybelieve me, but you were like.
They're adults.
I don't
Kat (08:40):
they
Val (08:41):
to hold their hands.
They could figure out how to doit.
Like they could Google it.
I was dumbfounded.
I'm sorry.
It's
Kat (08:47):
very dismissive.
I can hear that now I mean, mybrain was doing something else,
The way I understood thatrequest was I think I have an
aversion to all the stuff outthere.
That's too guru.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
And like the 10 steps to blah,blah, blah.
And I was like, fuck all that SoI think that was me having like
an overreaction so like thisvery helpful thing that you
wanted to do for all ourlisteners.
(09:08):
And I was like, no and I heardyour feeling
Val (09:13):
well, I thought the dog was a pretty reasonable idea.
It is.
Kat (09:18):
It's a really good idea.
And it was really good when Ihad it later myself.
Val (09:21):
Exactly.
Fuck you cat.
Yeah.
So that was just a realcleansing.
Fuck you.
It was so great.
So cat sends me an E email.
Have a great idea for our nextepisode.
I'm like, oh yeah, fuck you.
Yeah, oh, I should have said youalready vetoed this cat.
You already vetoed this idea.
I'm sorry.
We can't do it.
Oh no, it's all good.
Okay.
So we've decided our collectivewisdom brought us.
(09:44):
To this body episode.
Yes.
And oh, I started to say, thatyou pushing back on the guru
narrative is very helpful forme.
Oh good.
This is about our experience.
Yeah.
And we happen to have someknowledge, right.
I don't need to like study forevery episode.
Yeah.
And this is about us, ourprocess, our friendship, our,
yeah.
I don't wanna say messiness.
It's not that messy, this ismore about our experience.
(10:05):
entertainment folks.
Right.
that has been really freeing aswell for me.
Right.
So I wanna recognize that too.
Kat (10:12):
that's so cool.
Yeah.
Cuz like, I think I just have,at this point, my life a strong
distaste for anyone who's like,I'm the authority on this and I
know all the things, right I'dmuch rather it be like, yeah,
these are the things I'velearned along the way.
And if it resonates with you,you take it fine.
Also you're a grown ass adultperson.
right.
Val (10:28):
That's what she said, folks.
When I wanted her to tell youabout body stuff, she's like,
they're grown ass people.
Well,
Kat (10:35):
and I know that sounds so funny, but like.
I do trust us as individuals onour journey I have such a deep
trust in my own body.
And even like, I don't know,this sounds kind of Woohoo, but
the universe to sort of bringthings to cross my path at the
right time.
I met someone recently that theyhave really big book FOMO, I was
telling'em about a book I wasreading and they're like, oh my
God, is that good?
And like, it really is.
Oh.
And I was like, I don't havebook FOMO.
(10:56):
There are so many amazing booksin the world.
There's no way I could read themall.
Yeah.
So I just gave that up and thenlike books sort of organically
crossed my path and I'm like,oh, I'm attracted to that when
I'm gonna read it.
And I get great stuff out of it.
Sometimes I'll read the samewonderful books several times
over, you know what I mean?
I can't read everyth.
Sure.
And so I just allow like, youknow, the universe to be like
here, try this book and I'mlike, oh, I love this book.
(11:17):
Thank you.
So I think I'm sort ofprojecting that onto other
people and all of our journeys,all of us have stories where
something significant acrossedour path and it was meaningful
and resonant in
Val (11:26):
that moment.
Mm-hmm and it directed
Kat (11:28):
our path.
Right?
Yeah.
And so that's why I don't wannabe like, Hey, listen to me,
here's 10 steps of how I learnedto do the thing.
And now you can do the thingjust like I did.
Val (11:37):
Yeah.
Well, I think, yeah, we're,we're doing a good job of
holding things loosely.
Yeah.
Saying, Hey, this is our story.
Right, right.
Because we're just telling ourstory.
We're not here necessarily toteach, but my darling catch
mm-hmm you have a lot of wisdom.
You really do lean into gettingknowledge from your body.
So I think you do have things toshare, but so what we're gonna
do today is we're gonna talkabout, how to actually make
(11:57):
peace and, and have your body asa home, right?
Yeah.
Then we're gonna talk about justlots of different spiritual
practices that we've tried, thatbody practices.
Yeah.
Right.
And then I want you to talk moreabout like, how to actually
start these body.
Check-ins like, if someone hasnever done it before totally.
And then How to live a life ofbody led decisions.
Kat (12:16):
it's
Val (12:16):
gonna be good.
Doesn't this sound good?
It's a journey cat.
It's not a list.
Okay.
Yeah.
The first place we need to startis actually getting back into
and that journey.
Right.
So you wanna start there?
Kat (12:27):
Well, okay.
So we spent two episodes talkingabout our relationship with our
body and fat And we're reallyclear about this.
It doesn't matter what size ofbody you live in.
We live in a culture that hasundermined all of us, having
peace in the body.
We
Val (12:41):
Oh, can you say that again, please?
We
Kat (12:43):
live in a culture that has undermined any of us having
peace in the body we Yeah.
And it's quite toxic.
And so all of us, it doesn'tmatter what size body you live
in.
All of us need to do the workmm-hmm to unlearn some of these
internalized messages aboutConstantly critiquing your body
and feeling like it's notacceptable.
(13:03):
Right.
And so we do that by engaging ina process of welcoming in body
neutrality.
Yeah.
And so like it's a journey anddepending on you know, who you
are in your temperament and allthese other things, it can take
a long time.
Right.
So let's just be gentle withourselves.
And of setting the bar at like,I'm gonna love my body, like
Lizzo loves her body.
Val (13:22):
Mm-hmm
Kat (13:22):
right.
Start with okay, well, if I'mhaving a critical thought about
my body, can I move towardsbeing neutral?
And then I think a reallyhelpful piece of engaging in
this journey of like, okay, I'mjust gonna be neutral about my
is you.
It is just the framework is thehome I have.
Right.
This is the home I inhabit
Val (13:41):
it's me until,
Kat (13:42):
until I die.
Yeah.
And so this is a very worthwhileeffort.
Val (13:46):
Yes.
You know,
Kat (13:47):
We think about how much, like time and energy you put
into trying to buy a home orlive in a, space and you make it
your own, you do all thesethings.
Right.
Well, come on people, weactually deeply inhabit the
physical form
Val (14:01):
Yeah.
Kat (14:01):
And allowing it to be a place You know, top shelf
priority shit right
Val (14:06):
Sure.
Yeah.
And, and you and I were talkingabout how, evangelical
Christianity yeah.
There was all the purityculture.
Right.
Yes, your body's a temple, butthe, emphasis is on your spirit.
It's about your soul beingsaved,
Kat (14:19):
right?
Val (14:19):
And yet there's also this white patriarchal vision of what
especially look like, and evenhow men should Right.
If we're talking but I felt likeI had to come back into my body
mm-hmm and the more messagesthat I heard and internalized,
right.
About how bad my body was, howit shouldn't look this way.
Right.
The less connected I was to mybody.
Exactly.
And therefore I was eating andexercising and making decisions
(14:43):
so disconnected from my body.
Cuz there was so much shame.
Yes.
When I would connect with mybody and actually feel it.
Kat (14:50):
Exactly.
Wow Yeah.
Okay.
I just wanna say too.
So you mentioned like ourChristian background, but I see
it even in some like morespiritual.
Circles two people like to referto our physical body as like a
meats for our spirit.
Right.
And I, I don't like that either.
Our body is not a fucking meatsack.
No, It is incrediblysophisticated.
(15:10):
Right?
You think about just the systemsof the body and all the things
that are happening without ourconscious mind to keep us alive.
Val (15:16):
Right.
would, you
Kat (15:17):
that's a wonderful spouse just for gratitude right there.
You know,
Val (15:21):
it's almost like our body, I've never thought of this
before, and maybe I'm full ofshit, it's almost like our
bodies are an outward
Kat (15:29):
manifestation of even
Val (15:31):
like the inside.
Like if you think about, yeah.
Like if, if really we're soseparate, you getting
butterflies, when you meetsomeone oh.
Or nervous totally.
Before an interview thatshouldn't happen.
If your body and your mind andyour emotions are separate,
they're
Kat (15:44):
not, no, we're
Val (15:45):
intertwined.
They're not, the brain gutconnection.
Yeah.
You know, we've seen that thepolyvagal theory about your
vagus nerve.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Really just regulating yourwhole body because of trauma and
emotions and thoughts.
Exactly, exactly.
So,
Kat (15:59):
yeah.
And then you just, you look atDNA, right?
So like
Val (16:02):
the idea
Kat (16:03):
that so trauma can be stored in your DNA for
generations past so I just wannasay our bodies are masterful
mm-hmm If I have a guru, it's myown physical body, Our bodies
can be profound teachers to us.
if we will give them their dohonestly, really.
And so we start with well, Igotta make peace.
(16:23):
I'm just gonna be neutral aboutthis body of mine.
And then what happens is youbegin to open up the dialogue
and engage in and really inhabityour body.
And then you start to live alife where all the decisions you
are making are really likecentered in.
Does this feel good in and wow,it's a way different way to
Val (16:42):
So the call is to actually come back into your body, right?
Like connect to it.
Yeah.
Trying to be morenon-judgemental yeah.
Be at peace.
Right.
We've talked about radicalacceptance last couple And love
it too, I think, right?
If plants can grow, mm-hmm,differently because of how we
speak to them.
Imagine your body.
I've been challenged by that.
Like, oh, I broke down and criedonce actually about it.
(17:05):
Yeah.
Just that I didn't realize howupset and angry I was at my body
for failing me.
Right.
In so many ways.
Right.
Even with the infertility,that's when I realized it oh,
right.
Where I was mad at my body forbeing in so much pain.
Yeah.
And let's face it too.
Right.
It's the pain.
Not just be, not being able towork, but the pain.
And then I don't even know if Ifelt that that was a failure,
but then to add on theinfertility that, oh, you failed
(17:28):
me again.
Kat (17:28):
Mm.
Val (17:29):
and I think I realized, oh, I wasn't giving myself
compassion.
I was really angry at my body.
Kat (17:33):
Well, again, that's the thing, like, I don't know anyone
who was raised in an environmentwhere like kindness as the
default to self is modeled.
Val (17:42):
Ooh.
Kat (17:42):
Like, and that's what I try really hard to, Live and then
model to my kids is that beingkind to ourselves and being
aware of what our needs are, butreally like self kindness.
It is a radically different wayto live.
My first thought in my head whenI'm experiencing something is
not to berate myself, it's tooffer kindness to you know?
(18:03):
And that doesn't mean I don'tstill experience all these
negative emotions and I, youknow, I cry a lot.
I mean, it's not that it savesus from how hard it is to be a
human in the world, but itabsolutely softens I've created.
Safe place on the inside.
And we'd like to share somethings of like, maybe you could
(18:23):
too.
So I had this really hugeepiphany was that my default
really is to be kind to myself.
And so when we were Christians,we were doing ministry and
there's all this, I'm gonna usethe word propaganda, but there
was all this indoctrinationabout what did it mean to be
like Jesus in the world.
Val (18:38):
Right.
Mm-hmm how to be loving and kind
Kat (18:39):
And so we like got all these fucking skills to be
really kind in the world to movethrough the world.
The way that we thought Jesuswas telling us to, okay.
That required effort and work.
And then skip ahead where I'vehad this deep practice of
self-compassion where I'mgenuinely not unkind to myself
internally, and so all of asudden being kind and generous
(18:59):
with other people did not takeany effort.
It just is the overflow.
Right.
And that doesn't mean like,sometimes I'm anxious or I'm
kind of activated.
And so like, I can still beshort with people.
I'm still human, but the largeroverarching true thing is that
I'm not striving to be kind inthe
Val (19:17):
world Ah, it's coming more naturally out of your own.
Kat (19:19):
It's just the overflow.
It's the natural overflow.
Sure.
Of just being kind to myself.
Sometimes when we want the endresult before the process, I'm
not saying, Hey, be more kind inthe world by being kind to
yourself first.
That was just oh, look bonusSure.
What I'm saying is it's worth itto be kind to yourself.
Like just your home, you deserveto have a home.
That's lovely.
(19:41):
Yes.
That's full of softness andgentleness and play and
pleasure.
Yes.
Val (19:45):
That's our
Kat (19:45):
birthright And then what happens is as the glorious
overflow is that there's lesssuffering in the whole fucking
world.
And then as we engage with otherhuman beings, we just are softer
and gentler.
Yeah.
Or more playful or morelighthearted you know,
Val (20:02):
I love it.
Kat (20:02):
It's better.
Val (20:03):
Can I say something about internalizing messages?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So if you've never heard thisterm before, I talk about it a
lot with self-confidence mm-hmmor your beliefs about yourself.
Sure.
if your validation is alwaysexternal, it's not inside.
Right.
You always have to be getting itfrom the outside.
Of course.
Right.
So someone says, oh, you'repretty, or you're smart because
you don't believe it on theinside.
(20:24):
Yeah.
You are Dependent on those onthe outside.
Right.
So I talked to them about takingthose things that maybe they
kind of wanna believe aboutthemselves or people have said,
yeah.
And then it's like internalizeit and I'm motioning, like
eating something.
Like, it's almost like you'reeating it.
You're bringing it on theinside.
Yeah.
So it resides here.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And so that even in the face ofsome other messages, right.
(20:45):
it's internalized, right?
Yeah.
It's on the inside and now youbelieve it.
Okay.
Kat (20:50):
where I wanna say like all of us out there, we can add our
own creativity to how to dothat.
Right.
the howto part Cause like whatyou're just describing.
Remember in the other episode,you're like have some rituals,
fucking a people make up agoddamn ritual.
Like what sounds fun to you?
Do you wanna like take a glassof water, take a Sharpie,
marker.
And write the word, love allover the, the glass.
(21:11):
sure.
Why not?
That's fun.
There's some fucking study.
That's like the molecules of thewater change.
What the fuck.
I don't know how that works.
And So then you're just mindful.
You're just like, I am drinkingthis in, I am welcoming this
into my body.
Val (21:25):
Right?
Ooh, that's fun.
Kat (21:26):
Like, do you wanna like, get yourself like the best
fucking cupcake and the wholecity you live in and be like,
this is me loving myself.
And this is this like gift tomyself.
This is pleasure.
This is love.
This is joy.
This is like the child likeness,all the things.
This is what I'm saying.
Like, I don't wanna tell youwhat to do.
I want you to like, own yourjourney.
Yes.
So like
Val (21:45):
You trust yourself.
You're saying what are the ideasthat are coming into your mind
that, oh, I think that wouldfeel good.
Yeah.
Like,
Kat (21:50):
and how can you be a little bit like.
I recognize I have dissonanceabout being in my body and
having a body and having bodyneutrality.
Okay.
So you start there wherever youare, like, try to just go to the
mat with yourself and decide,get a real, like, feel where am
I in this journey?
Mm-hmm where would I like to be?
And then like, what's it gonnatake to get there, add some
creativity.
(22:11):
so, you know, we see mindfulnessa lot and really, you know I do
have a deep meditation practice,but do you know what it looks
like in practical, likeapplication?
I lay down in my bed.
that's it, I'm just laying in mybed because my chronic illness
and the level fatigue Iexperience regularly, I lay in
my bed a lot.
Val (22:29):
Mm.
And
Kat (22:29):
so sometimes I'm just letting my mind scan my whole
body, taking some deep bellybreaths.
and I'm just saying nice thingsto myself.
just internally, sometimes outloud.
Like some people like a lot ofstructure.
I don't like a lot of structure,so I just make it up in whatever
feels fun and resonant and, andnecessary in the moment.
(22:52):
We talked about grief, you ridethe waves.
Like all of life feels like thatto me.
So like, whatever in thispresent moment feels like it's
gonna be a way for me to engage.
Then that's the thing I'm gonnalike, kind of grab onto in
Val (23:04):
that practice.
Mm.
So the, the inverse.
Yeah.
So sometimes we haveinternalized messages about our
body, right.
Mm.
We all have, it's like, they'reinside.
Right.
And so you be carry thosearound.
Yeah.
And I think it's the process ofexpelling the ones.
Yeah.
That you're deciding.
No, I'm actually not gonna carrythis around.
I don't believe that aboutmyself anymore.
Yeah.
Kat (23:24):
Maybe see, sometimes this is the tricky thing, somewhere
in your body, you do believe it.
And so you just acknowledgethat.
And that's where I offercompassion.
Like sometimes I I'm reallyspecific, there's a belief that
in my brain I know is not true.
Yeah.
Right.
Okay.
So one would be I do not deservelove because of the body I
inhabit mm-hmm right.
Many of us feel that mm-hmmThere's a belief because we've
(23:45):
internalized it from the culturewe live in.
So just acknowledge if that'sreally there.
Yes.
And then you offer compassionand you just say, I'm so sorry
that you're not worthy of lovebecause of the body inhabit and
you just say it to yourself.
Right.
And instead of trying to Pasteover it right away, because you
gotta, again, this is theradical acceptance.
You gotta really own.
What's true still, right?
(24:07):
If you jump to I love myself, Iknow I'm beautiful.
Right.
You're sort of bypassing thisother true thing that needs to
be dealt.
with that's you gotta get allthe way underneath it.
Val (24:16):
Well, I think that's why people are having a hard time.
Yeah.
Like body positivity.
No, like right.
What happens when like my pantsdon't fit and it is that
acknowledging.
Yeah.
The pieces like that are stillthere.
Yeah.
Right.
It's not this binary.
We wanna be.
Yes, no.
On off.
Kat (24:30):
I remember being in like dressing rooms and it being
gross torture.
Oh.
Because of those internalmessages, right?
you're putting clothes on yourbody.
They don't, you don't feel likethey look good.
They don't feel good.
Maybe they're too tight.
You have to change sizes again.
And oh my God, it would be sucha downer.
But if I would've known, thenwhat I know now I would sit
myself down in the change and Iwould cross my hands across my
(24:52):
Catherine, You are allowed youare.
worthy as you are.
You are welcome here.
You are home and you are safe.
And we're gonna buy whatever weneed to buy for you to feel
good.
And it's okay.
It's okay.
That it's different than it wasmm-hmm I think I just healed my
(25:14):
younger self Yes.
Yeah.
Val (25:15):
Oh, yes.
Kat (25:17):
That's what it looks like to offer compassion to the pain.
Mm-hmm right.
To not cover over it, to not belike, you know, does that right.
That
Val (25:25):
makes sense.
It does.
Yeah, it does.
and I think that's where somepeople are getting caught in.
Like, why do I have to always bepositive about my body?
You don't, and I love this quoteif it helps anyone else.
It said if you're only lovingyour body, when you think it
looks good, that'sobjectification, right?
Not love.
Kat (25:44):
Right?
Yeah.
And again, love might be a bitof a leap for some of us.
And so you start with neutralitywhich is just, I am allowed to
be as I am.
Val (25:52):
Yep.
Ooh.
Kat (25:52):
allowed to be as I am.
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah.
Val (25:55):
So from this great foundation,
Kat (25:57):
right?
Mm-hmm mm-hmm
Val (25:57):
then we just thought we would talk about some of the
different body practices.
Yeah.
If you're like, how do I, how doI get more in touch with my body
and notice it yeah so we justwanted to list some off and talk
a little bit about them and thenguess what you're grown as
adults
Kat (26:13):
you can see what resonates with you and what you would like
to play with and experimentwith.
Maybe
Val (26:17):
we need some Mer that's like, I'm a grown as adult, like
cat says, I'm a grown ass adult.
I get to do
Kat (26:23):
I like it better if it's your grown ass adult, like the
person who's reading it, youknow, like come correct.
You're a grown
Val (26:28):
as adult You
Kat (26:29):
You know what I mean?
I know what I am
Val (26:31):
just
Kat (26:32):
fuck you.
You're a grown as adult go liveyour life.
Val (26:34):
Okay.
So what are some of the thingsKA that you've done
Kat (26:37):
okay.
So we, we touched on somealready, so there's mindfulness
and there's self-compassion andwe talked about what that looks
like.
I love deep breathing as a veryquick get in my body.
And then one of the things Iread a while ago, and again, it
just, jumped out at me and itresonates with me.
There's lots of different waysto do deep breathing.
Yeah.
What I like is to try to fillmy, whole belly with air mm-hmm
(26:58):
I like am pushing air into thelowest part of my
Val (27:01):
belly mm-hmm and
Kat (27:01):
that's just one of the things that I like.
And then sometimes I'll addmindfulness to that.
Right.
So you're breathing in, youknow, good, beautiful things,
love and acceptance.
And then you're exhaling thingsthat don't serve you anymore.
Old beliefs, anything like that.
Right.
Mm-hmm
Val (27:13):
Can I say, some people really don't, like the deep
breathing or like am I justgonna sit here and breathe?
That's why I, like, we talkedabout the different kinds of
music, the sound bads.
If I'm focusing on the musicright.
And I'm breathing to it.
Mm-hmm that gives me somethingelse to think about.
Totally.
And that's pleasurable for
Kat (27:29):
Yeah.
Val (27:29):
Yeah.
But I talk to clients about.
The one big deep breath.
Oh yeah.
You're in a situation you'restarting to feel flooded or
upset.
Just a one big deep breath and along exhale.
Right.
So that long exhale to give youthat big,
Kat (27:43):
relaxation.
Yeah.
I I don't do it over and overagain.
Like I do it just enough to belike, oh yeah, I'm back in my
body.
Now also napping.
Like, I can't emphasize thisenough, but an adequate amount
of rest.
Right.
Like sometimes we are, in like aautopilot and just stopping.
Right.
Yeah.
And being like, oh, actually ifI lay down, if my head is just,
(28:03):
parallel to the earth, thatsounds more wooo than, I mean it
to be, but there's somethingabout orienting yourself
differently in the world
Val (28:10):
I think maybe just one thing that could be really
helpful, a, a first key step tocoming back into your body.
Mm-hmm that we use with peoplewho dissociate, right?
Is grounding exercises.
Right.
Mm-hmm, something very simple asjust putting your barefoot feet
on the ground and feeling it.
Kat (28:28):
You can do that also just by touching yourself, in a
repeated pattern, you can touchyourself anywhere, but I like to
touch myself on my chest andjust kind of gently pressing
Val (28:37):
a little bit.
Yeah.
You were talking about like,just do it feels intuitive folks
but no, there is wisdom.
There is deep, deep wisdom inall of us.
Maybe, even from your cultures,that some of these practices are
deep.
Like the breathwork practices ofcourse come from like deep, deep
wise cultural heritages thathave had this wisdom for a long
(28:58):
time.
Right, right.
but I do remember researchshows, I guess if you hold the
back of your skull.
Mm.
And, and also on your heart.
Yeah.
Like above your heart.
Yeah.
Those two places will reduceyour anxiety incredibly quickly.
So I guess I wanna point thatout.
Instinctively you're like this.
Feels good.
Right.
So that's what we're pushing.
Yeah.
And also it's kind of cool.
At least for me to find out oh,that's really a thing.
(29:19):
Right.
Like how I said, I stopped theyoyo, like going on diets.
Cause I was like, I just can'tdo it.
Yes.
Yeah.
I just can't go through thatride anymore.
And to find out that isn't goodfor you.
Right.
So I was like, oh wow.
Like intuitively I was like, no,I can't do
Kat (29:31):
up and down.
that's has the healthramifications negative health
outcomes versus just having moreweight on
Val (29:36):
your ground Correct?
So the grounding too, you canground through any of your
senses, feeling a fuzzy blanket,right.
Smelling your favorite sense,right?
All that stuff.
Naming three to five things inthe room.
You kind of talked about a bodyscan where we just kind of go
from the top of your head to thesoul of your feet and just
notice.
I mean, what a fuckingrevelation, I mean, of actually
(29:58):
paying attention to your bodyand going know, oh, let me check
in with my head.
Right.
How is it feeling?
Let me check in with myshoulders.
What a fucking revelation.
We check on everything else inour lives.
Kat (30:08):
I know.
It feels really nice.
Again, I'm napping, I'm layingdown whatever.
and I like to use my imaginationso much.
I find it to be an incredibly SoI picture a light going from the
top and sort of scanning me andI go down, I watch it.
Sometimes I'll even just imaginethat it's warm.
Imagine the
Val (30:23):
light is one.
Kat (30:24):
And So you, bring this light down that the muscles that
it's coming in contact with,shoulders.
Val (30:31):
Mm-hmm
Kat (30:31):
and then you just take it all the way down your feet.
You come right back up again.
You add some deep breaths,That's why I'm like a huge
proponent of adding yourimagination to any of these
practices, amplifies it'sEfficacy.
Val (30:43):
yes.
There's so many great.
I'm sure listeners, you, you allare into some really cool shit.
Yeah, you can imagine a lightyeah.
And changing colors and going inyour body.
And I mean, there's tons of waysthat you can do all that.
The progressive musclerelaxation though.
If if you hold a lot of tension,mm-hmm, just going from the top
of your head down through yourbody, in different muscle
groups.
(31:03):
Yeah.
Clenching them and thenrelaxing.
Oh,
Kat (31:06):
I do that one too.
That's a good
Val (31:07):
like for going to sleep at night sometimes just even
noticing oh, wow.
I didn't know.
and it helps you actually relax
Kat (31:14):
Exactly.
Val (31:15):
Slowing down.
Yeah.
Which by how fast you and I bothtalk you'd be surprised, but I,
I know for me, slowing down,mm-hmm just noticing that
mindfulness does help that justtaking that pause, saying, huh,
what's happening here.
Taking that extra beat.
Right.
I even tell clients like thatone big, deep breath will just
(31:37):
give you that beat to noticethings.
And then you can kind of ask howis
Kat (31:43):
right?
yeah.
Val (31:44):
Any kind of body movement.
Kat (31:46):
Oh yeah.
Val (31:47):
We wanted to talk about
Kat (31:48):
Well, totally.
So like, yeah.
I, whatever it is that you liketo do again, like when we think
about body movement, so many ofus.
Maybe some traumatic experiencewith exercising in order to
change and right.
So you just, you go on a journeywith that too.
And you're like, well, well,does any of this spring
pleasure?
Does it bring joy?
Does of it feel fun?
Like a game, like when you're akid and then just do the things
that make you feel happy, makeyou feel
Val (32:09):
good.
Yeah Dancing, stretching.
Yeah.
Yoga do yoga.
Kat (32:13):
Anything that moves your body gets you back in your body,
as long as your intention iswith it, right.
Versus That other oldconditioning was like I have to
punish my body and
Val (32:23):
get it to conform.
Yeah.
And I talk about that a lot andI'll say it again, that a big
seminal moment in yourrelationship with your body is
the first time you realize thatexercise helps reduce your
anxiety mm-hmm or makes yousleep better.
Right.
Like, or whatever it is, totallylifts your mood.
Kat (32:40):
I love swimming so much.
Like swimming is my, my top tierthing.
Someday I'm like a house with apool.
It's
Val (32:46):
my life, all my life goals.
Kat (32:48):
like I live in this marginalized body and it doesn't
move freely in a lot of spaces,I move really freely in the
water and I float without anyeffort, which is just so fucking
fun.
It feels like a superpower whereliterally I can't drown.
Yeah.
Yes
Val (33:01):
yes.
I did notice that the other dayI came from a pickle ball and my
body was just like,
Kat (33:07):
was
Val (33:07):
it was talking to me.
Right.
And I got in the water and I wasfloating a bit and I was Mm.
But I hadn't really thoughtabout even just pickleball, if
you're new to the podcasts andget used to pick a ball.
But I didn't really think aboutit getting me back into my body
actually.
And also, I mean, I guess Iwanna say shout out to all of
(33:27):
our, like chronic pain warriorsright out there.
Because being connected to mybody, it means that I'm feeling
the pain.
Yeah.
And, you know, with chronicpain, it's a lot of constant
pain that maybe isn't reallygiving us new information.
Right.
So there's also I guess a cost,at least for me cuz I actually
do struggle with disconnect formy body.
(33:49):
Right.
So I'm not thinking about mypain, right.
To like connecting actuallythat's a question on the
dissociation scale.
Yeah.
Can you.
Not feel pain for long periodsof Yeah.
We could also recognize thatdissociating or disconnecting
from your body sometimes is agood coping mechanism Well,
okay.
It's something we all do it.
(34:10):
So we all do it.
We can
Kat (34:11):
it.
like the fact that we have theability to do it means that
it's, it's probably good that wecan do it
Val (34:16):
Right Oh, I mean, for trauma, it's probably saved a
lot of people's lives of course.
But we all do it.
If you like, don't rememberdriving the rest of the way home
that's that's a form ofdissociation Oh, I
Kat (34:25):
thought that was like glitch in the matrix
Val (34:26):
whenever that happened.
ah,
Kat (34:29):
you're like, fuck, where am I?
Val (34:30):
Yeah.
Kat (34:31):
I do that kind of a
Val (34:32):
a lot actually.
Okay.
So now that you like are sort ofgetting regular information with
your body mm-hmm can you tellus, walk us through how do you
start for someone who's neverdone done it before?
Explain your process of how youcheck in with your body.
Like how do you start thatdialogue?
Kat (34:47):
Yeah.
Okay.
So here's actually I'm gonnalead us all in a little
meditation.
cool So Yeah, you canparticipate if you want to.
No pressure, you know, if itokay.
But I want you to think about,yeah.
Do what Val's doing.
Take a nice deep breath, if youwould like to.
If you're not driving, maybeeven close your eyes.
How wonderful if you're driving,don't close your eyes.
Val (35:06):
So put your Tesla on.
Kat (35:08):
Self-driving so take a nice deep breath in, and then I want
you to imagine a time in yourlife, like an actual lived
experience, where you just feltreally, really at ease and
really peaceful and maybesomething pleasant, like maybe
it was a fun time, but yourbody, for sure, you felt
expansive, you felt happy, youfelt free, you felt It doesn't
(35:30):
have to be every single one ofthose things.
Just any of those things, any ofthose positive feeling?
Now you're there in that memory.
Now I want you to do a body scanin the memory.
And so just, I want you to note,like, are your, are shoulders
relaxed?
Are they down?
Do you feel like you have somespace in your chest to breathe?
Is your head light versusfeeling heavy?
(35:50):
Like what are sensations youfeel, you know, how do your legs
feel?
How do your hands feel?
How do your arms And So you justtake that in for a moment.
And I want you to just like lockin those thoughts, those, the
sensations you're able to detectin your physical body, in a good
memory, right.
And a positive experience.
And so you just make littlenotes.
(36:12):
This is what it feels like Okay.
Another little cleansing breath.
Now we're gonna do something.
This one's less fun people, butnow we're gonna do it again.
We're gonna remember a timewhere you felt some anxiety.
You're not gonna bring up a hightrauma memory.
You're gonna bring up a memorywhere It was stressful.
It was not good.
It was not your favorite.
There's some things you can'tcontrol.
Maybe there's some negativeself-talk in the mix, but now I
(36:35):
want you to do that body scanagain.
And I want you to notice what itfeels like in your head, in your
So we're gonna note that, right?
That's what it feels like whenI'm doing something that is
(36:57):
maybe out of Right?
So now we have an opportunity togo out with friends.
That we love.
They're great.
But we're also aware that we'vebeen run down and we're
exhausted and we're trying todecide, do I stay home and do
like self-care things?
Or like just binge watch TV?
Or do I go out with friends?
(37:18):
Right.
And so here's what you do, youjust imagine.
Okay.
I'm gonna go out with my friendsand you picture yourself there
and you see how it feels in yourbody.
Does it feel expansive?
Does it feel like that firstexercise we did?
Does it feel kind of free?
Does it feel light?
Does it feel like, oh, this isnourishing me or does it make
you feel tight?
(37:39):
Like the second thing we did,oh, I just don't wanna be in
public.
I don't wanna be out in theworld and you have those other
sensations.
So if we can start doing thisfor more and more decisions that
we
Val (37:48):
make,
Kat (37:49):
just being aware, like.
Our bodies are really, reallysmart.
Right.
So I could see that scenariowhere you're like, yeah, I need
to go and spend some time andconnect with humans.
That's gonna feel so good inMm-hmm and then also this
scenario could be like, oh,Nope, it's not this week for me.
I really need some alone time.
These other stresses in my lifehave depleted me, I'm depleted.
I'm gonna do nothing.
(38:09):
And that's, that's the thingthat's making me feel most
expansive and
Val (38:12):
Is it such an important skill if you think about it,
right?
Yeah.
I wish we had that, soundeffect, like the, eh, the break
screeching.
Yeah.
Because how many times have wesaid yes to something?
Well, you haven't done it in awhile cause
Kat (38:25):
it's perfect
Val (38:26):
this
Kat (38:26):
No,
Val (38:27):
I I'll say yes to my husband about something and then
we're doing it.
And I'm
Kat (38:31):
dread
Val (38:32):
dread.
I'm like, or yeah, I'm in a badmood.
Like I should't have said yes inthe, the first place.
Right.
So when we're able to do thisright, and get all the data from
our bodies, We could be moresafe for the humans around us
too.
Right.
Kat (38:43):
And then to get to live with less and less dread dread
is its own kind of suffering.
I have very little space for
Val (38:47):
dread anymore.
Kat (38:48):
And then once in a while, and again, like there's all the
nuance here, right.
It's not so black and white.
So there are sometimes thingsthat I have to do what I want to
do, cuz it serves this othergreater goal.
Yeah.
Right.
I had some adulting to do andsome executive function stuff
just yesterday and I was feelingso much anxiety about it and it
was a little unfamiliar and itwas just.
(39:09):
Stuff on the computer.
And sometimes I can be a littleinsecure about my skillset and
navigating all that.
So I called up my friend and Iwas like, Hey, can we do some
body doubling mm-hmm right.
Because when I did the littleexercise of how can I do this
thing?
This making me feel dread andanxiety.
Oh, well, if I add in my friend,even just on a FaceTime call,
their presence like calms
Val (39:28):
down and.
Kat (39:29):
then I can Do the thing yeah.
That I don't want to do.
But I want The conclusion of it.
I want it to be
Val (39:34):
done.
Right.
Ooh.
Yeah.
So you, that's a couple things,right.
So we've talked aboutco-regulation right.
That an awesome skill to knowwhen you need another person to
help you exactly regulate youremotions.
We do it all the time.
Also body doubling is somethingvery helpful for people with
ADHD.
Yeah.
Or any of us where if you haveanother person around Yeah.
Funny enough.
We talk about intuition.
(39:54):
Yeah.
I used to tell the admin at myjob, are you done with your
work?
Can you please just come sit inhere?
Right.
I, I used to tell her I'm asocial doer.
Yes.
Which is fucking body.
I beat a body doubler.
I know my other friend sayslike, oh, can we parallel play
yes.
At a coffee shop to just get our
Kat (40:11):
work done.
Val (40:11):
Exactly.
So it's very helpful foreveryone.
Yeah.
And then the other skill youmentioned you coin the phrase
should energy.
Oh, should when we do thingsthat have, should it is a
collapsing energy.
Yeah.
Kat (40:22):
It creates dread.
Val (40:23):
if we're doing things just out of a should.
Right.
But there are things that weshould do.
Yeah.
Or that we want to do.
Like you said, the bigger wantsso connecting.
So even though it is probablystill like a, I should pay my
taxes.
Right, right.
Like, like it's stilltechnically a should getting out
of the should energy.
Right.
And then connecting to thegreater goal Find the want,
because the want is expandingenergy Yeah.
(40:45):
So connect to the want.
Yeah.
So you used the lot good foryou.
The
Kat (40:48):
more.
Oh, yay.
That gave me chills I'm sofucking smart.
Val (40:52):
are you really smart?
You're really smart This is whywe
Kat (40:55):
that Thanks for bringing that one back around That's so
good.
Val (40:57):
I just wanna do full disclosure for the for our
listeners.
I, I could not picture anythingwhile you're doing that kinda
editing
Kat (41:03):
it
Val (41:05):
I have a really hard time, but I came to you once.
And I said, oh cat, should I dothis thing?
Or is it just too much?
Should I wait instead of givingyour opinion, which I love you,
didn't like go in your head andwell, you were just like, look,
picture yourself doing it.
Yeah.
And I think that time you werelike, imagine if you were
falling off a cliff, are youskydiving?
Like, is it invigorating or isit terror?
(41:28):
Like oh, right.
So think of yourself doing thisthing.
And then you said, pictureyourself not doing it.
Right.
And for me it was anexhilarating leap, not a
dreadful leap.
So I'm like, okay, thanks.
Yeah, I'm gonna do it.
that was really helpful.
Kat (41:40):
I'm so
Val (41:41):
Yes Thank you.
You're amazing.
But I think I do it, where I'mlike, okay, I was planning to go
to pick a ball and there'ssometimes where I'm like, oh, I
know I'm exhausted.
I should just go.
Right.
Because I will feel better thanjust being in my body.
There's that?
You talked about that angstyenergy.
Yeah.
Right.
Where like it's pain making youtired, not exhaustion, tired.
That's a whole nother thing.
And then there's sometimes whereI'm like, oh, I'm feeling really
(42:03):
tired.
Maybe I should stay home.
And then I go anyway, and then Iwas like, no, this is not
turning out.
Good.
And so I kind of go back to,okay, how was that feeling?
Right.
That maybe I could have decidedthe no mm-hmm and so you
sometimes just have to do it.
Yeah.
And then go, oh, okay.
Right.
Kat (42:20):
Yeah.
We're all learning as we go.
Right.
Val (42:23):
I mean it's an experiment.
Kat (42:24):
Yeah.
It's all an experiment.
So yeah.
At trial and error, all thestuff, make it playful, turn it
into a game, all the things.
Yeah.
Yeah just be nice to yourself inthe process.
You're just, trying to get somenew skills.
You're like, Hey body, wannatalk?
tell me what you need body.
Val (42:40):
Oh.
And then being able to speak itout to other people.
Yeah.
I had some fear.
Oh.
About getting into, we had akayak and So we have a lot of
neighbors that could see us.
I think because I, I was feelinga little clumsy my body was in a
lot of pain.
They're all gonna be watchingme, like get in the kayak and
fall in the
Kat (42:56):
water
Val (42:56):
or something Sure Right.
And my husband tries to get thereal, like hard line, just do it
Baba.
And I was starting to feel it inmy body Uhhuh.
And I'm like, no, no, no.
I think that the more pressureyou give me, the more it's gonna
make it worse, then I'm gonnacry.
oh.
And then he's like, Okay.
Okay.
I won't do that.
Okay.
so then, okay.
And I don't remember the rest,but I just remember that as I
(43:19):
actually said out loud.
Yeah.
What was going on in my
Kat (43:22):
body?
Yes.
Val (43:22):
Yes Yeah.
It wasn't just that I was actingweird.
I talked about that last time.
When, you don't let things out,then you're just doing weird
stuff in your relationships.
Yeah.
I was able to tell him what wasgoing on.
Totally.
And then he was able to adjust.
And, and I got in and I didn'tfall in the water.
yeah.
Kat (43:39):
Okay.
So it is part of my regularvocabulary.
Now I notice I say it a lot.
I'm like, oh, that feels good inmy body.
That does not feel good in mybody.
these are just skills.
They become second nature.
You don't have to think about itafter a while it's like driving
or riding a bike.
You don't have to, it's not aconscious thought all the time.
Val (43:54):
can I tell yesterday that little behind the scenes?
I sure.
I FaceTimed you.
Yeah.
And then you're like, I'm reallycranky right now.
Yeah.
And then you're like, what aboutif for an episode it's like,
everything is terrible and wejust rant and Rav about how
terrible everything is.
And then we somehow laugh aboutit at the end and, and right
away, I was like, that
Kat (44:13):
does sound
Val (44:15):
sound good, but it didn't feel
Kat (44:16):
in my mind right
Val (44:17):
body was like why
Kat (44:18):
don't laugh
Val (44:20):
That does not feel good in my body.
Oh my gosh.
So that's just coming upregularly Me too Oh,
Kat (44:23):
it's such a good way to articulate boundaries with each
other too.
Right?
I mean, cuz what are you gonnacontradict?
How it feels in my body, youknow?
And so when you have thatknowledge, you have access to
clear boundaries.
You have access to a yes and ano it's powerful.
Val (44:38):
It's it's powerful.
I know.
Oh, it's so
Kat (44:40):
good.
It's so
Val (44:41):
Oh, this episode is so good.
Mm-hmm So we're at the end.
Yay.
I like the end.
Kat (44:48):
But this is where we get to talk about.
What's
Val (44:50):
Yeah.
Cuz we've been talking aboutwhat we've been learning, all
the stuff we've learned, whatwe've been shifting around so
much shifting around.
Yeah.
What's bringing us pleasure.
Kat (44:58):
Yeah.
What's bringing you
Val (44:59):
You know, what's funny.
Okay.
What's bringing me pleasure isI'm allowing myself to buy
products, Uhhuh that I reallyneed.
Yeah.
That I use every day and willmake me feel more comfortable.
Kat (45:09):
Cool.
Val (45:10):
like new pickleball socks.
Like a new ice pack.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
That that's not split open ohyeah.
Yeah, like new pickleball shortsthat feel really good.
Like a hug.
And some other stuff but it wasjust like, no, I'm using these
things every day.
Yeah.
Oh, I was thinking about, it'sprobably time to change bras.
(45:32):
Yeah.
I still enjoy a bra.
Kat (45:35):
that makes one
Val (45:36):
us we kinda got, got away from them during the pandemic.
Yeah.
Oh, new underwear.
That just feel good.
Of
Kat (45:41):
Of course.
That's care of your physicalbody.
Isn't it beautiful It is
Val (45:46):
Aw, well it's beautiful.
What is bring you pleasure
Kat (45:49):
sitting here with you
Val (45:51):
laughing.
Oh, that was your answer last
Kat (45:52):
time.
Was it really?
Yeah Jesus Christ.
I don't have anything else rightnow.
this podcast is what I'm holdingonto for dear fucking life's
Val (46:02):
I wish could see she's holding onto her mic stand.
Like it's a, buoy in the ocean.
Oh man.
Well, how insensitive me?
I'm
Kat (46:09):
I'm
Val (46:09):
sorry.
How insensitive?
I'm like no, pick somethingelse.
Like this is all I got
Kat (46:16):
well, okay.
I will add to it then, buthonestly, I have a close knit
group of friends that arebrilliant at humans.
You get to be, you're obviouslyone of those dear darling close
friends, but I have people in mylife that I can be my full,
authentic self with that.
I can tell all of my storiestoo.
Like you weren't the only personthat was privy to the fact that
I was in a really bad moodyesterday It was a yucky, yucky
(46:38):
mood.
And so that does bring a lot ofpleasure and comfort, right.
So
Val (46:43):
getting all that love so funny She's still holding on
really tight to her
Kat (46:47):
I'm like Ugh It's a hard season of my life.
I've cultivated safety insidemyself.
And I, like I said, I'm stillhuman, but like, it feels really
nice when that also manifest aslike attracting humans that love
me and I get to be all the wayme.
So just people that I get to beall the way myself with and that
feels really good.
It brings me lots of pleasure.
that
Val (47:07):
all right, KA until next time.
Kat (47:09):
Oh, I love you.
We love you guys.
Thank you.
Val (47:12):
you and listeners for being
Kat (47:13):
on this journey with us.
Thank you.
Good luck on your body
Val (47:16):
journey.
Tell us, tell us all your bodyjourney.
Yeah.
Okay Tell us about
Kat (47:20):
We.
Bye.
Val (47:21):
Bye.
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