Our Relationship with Money

Kat and Val are thrilled to announce a second season! This episode our charming hosts share personal updates and then dive deep into their experiences with money. Tune in for all the cackle-laugh filled pickle ball drama, mushroom drama, possible alien contact, and healing insights about how to move away from a scarcity money mindset.

This season Kat and Val plan to record longer episodes about once a month as they practice centering their needs while producing this labor of love. If you’d like to support the show please “buy us a cup of coffee” and help offset costs! 

Thanks for listening! 

*This podcast is for entertainment purposes only

Find us on Instagram:
Kat and Val Podcast

Val's offerings:
Val is in the pickle ball documentary trailer!
So This is Love Club
Reset Yourself for Love Program
Instagram So This is Love Club

Kat's offerings:
Fat Liberation Art -Fat Mystic Etsy Shop
Instagram- katmaxisfree
Tiktok- katmaxisfree

Additional resources/definitions referenced in most episodes:
The soul of Money by Lynne Twist
How to Change Your Mind (Netflix Docuseries) Micheal Pollan
Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria
Jill Johnson Young- grief talker
Five Stages of Grief
Intuitive eating.org
NAAFA National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance
Tell Me I'm Fat - This American Life
Adrienne Maree Brown
Pleasure Activism; The Politics of Feeling Good

Kat and I'm bow.
We've been friends for over 20years.
Thousands of therapists and catsand artists.
We're both great talkers.
And we're both XFN delicacy whoused to pastor gay.
Now we both have chronicillnesses.
We think we're fuckinghilarious.

(00:34):
Well hello there.
Hello Val.
How are you Kat?
I'm two weeks into a fuckingcold motherfuckers.
I'm not contagious anymore but Ihave this like real nice deep
sexy voice for you all.
Yes.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
I'll try to like pull reallyhard away from the microphone
when I have to cough againthough.
That'll be my gift to you Well,I was rushing as you got here

(00:59):
because I was trying to unwindmy house put it back together
for this crazy weekend Yeah butalso we've been having amazing,
we've had our little petitesummer.
Oh.
We came, right?
You loved it?
I was like, what the fuck is ithot for?
I'm ready for fall.
I loved it.
I was waiting for it.
So, that was a lot of fun.
And I had a pickleballtournament this weekend.
Yes, you did.
And we brought home the bronzemedal.

(01:20):
Champion! We went up a level.
This is my mixed doubles part.
And it was 95 degrees, so I justwant it to go on record, isn't
it great to have a podcast?
So,

Kat (01:33):
That

Val (01:33):
I survived nine games in a 95 degree heat, which Ever, ever
since I was a child I turnedbeet red at any kind of heat.
So I was actually a littlenervous at all my little, all my
little gadgets.
We actually in a break went intothe car and sat in the air
conditioning to keep our bodytemperatures down.
Right.
Kind of smart.

(01:54):
Yep.
And of course I had to reapplymy lipstick before we had the
metal ceremony.
And, a fellow, a fellow pick aballer was taking our picture
and he, it.
And he was like, look how cuteyou look.
He's like, no one would knowthat you are so incredibly
fierce, beat people down on thecourt.
I'm like, I kind of like that.
Yeah.
I got a little sneaky.
You're like, I'm sneaky.

(02:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
So good looking.
And then I want to beat your asslike I want to totally demolish
you totally totally demolishyou.
Yeah, I did I I if you've been along time a listener of the
podcast my first mixed doublespartner I said look cuz they're
like, you know, you can get introuble in a in a tournament for
swearing.
Oh, I was like Oh shit.

(02:35):
Fuck

Kat (02:38):
I said, look, I

Val (02:39):
Promise a partner said look I will not get us kicked out of
this tournament for swearingYeah, it'll be for fisticuffs.
How only good is kicked out ifwe need to fight some other
fuckers.
Oh my gosh, that's awesome.
I got it.
So but I got a little mouthy atthis tournament.
I know I

Kat (02:55):
Mouthy now?

Val (02:56):
did.
I did.
I thought you would like thatterminology.
Yeah.
Haven't turned you on in awhile.
I

Kat (03:10):
was doing it for me.
Mouthy be, I

Val (03:12):
was getting mouthy and this, this girl did not like my
call.
I called it out and she waslike, that was, Oh, you know, it
was out.
And she was a really sweetperson.
She, after our first game, shetapped my paddle.
She's like, great game girl.
I'm like, Oh, thanks.
Right.
But she was like, that was out.
So her partner, who I think washer husband was like, it's their
call.
It's not your call.
Yeah, she calmed down But thenext shot she she we floated a

(03:35):
ball just a little too high Soshe slammed it right at me,
right and it was it was a greatshot.
Yeah, so she looks at me andshe's like Yes! In your face and
then I look at her actually Ididn't say exactly at her like I
wasn't being confrontational,but I go Ooh, she's angry I was
like, wow, what are you doing?

(03:56):
Stop it.
Like, no, you have to, you haveto just let it get as big as
it's going to get.
Oh man.

Kat (04:00):
I know, man.

Val (04:01):
I know.
I'm afraid of that.
I still am a Sagittarius, whichI, I've been a good girl.
I've not put things on fire.
I have not torn the things firesign, dude.
I know, but I do feel it nowthat we've been talking about
like all of our conditioning.
I'm like, I do feel, I feel theneed.
Okay.
It's a, it's an environment.

(04:21):
specifically created to let youhave that expression.
Right?
But then I was like, oh, I don'tknow her personality that might
have just unleashed the beast.
Yeah.
So after she was like, oh, hey,sorry about that.
You know, I let the competitionget the best of me and I was
like.
Oh, it's okay.
I apologize as well.
I said, but I thank you forsaying that.
So we were also highly evolvedand also we were bitching at

(04:44):
each other.
See, that's the beauty of it.
Yeah.
Like my good friend and I, I waslike, what if we like give
ourselves permission to likeactually fight?
Like it's kind of a game, butyou get to get all riled up and
you have like some kind of like,you know, my safe word.
Yes.
Safer for fighting.
Like, because again, we're like,we're.

Kat (05:04):
we're,

Val (05:05):
I'm trying to not be so contained all the time.
It sounds like that's whatyou're talking about.
And so, like, you let yourself,like, let it get as big as it
needs to get because then itwill move all the way through.
And you're like, look at me.
I'm just an alive human in theworld, having some fucking
experiences, getting pissed offat Pickleball.
Losing my shit, Pickleball!Well, I did tell my partner, I

(05:27):
was like, cause we had a coupleof rocky days before where both
of us were frustrated ondifferent days and he is an
amazing human being.
But I was like, Oh, I think, Ithink we're getting to the stage
in the relationship where we canlet it hang out.
Yeah.
So he was mad at me.
He was mad at me.
The game of before frustrated.
Like you can't hit it there.
And I'm like, well, I'm tryingto keep it low.

(05:47):
He's like, but they're attackingme.
And so we, we talked it out inthe, in the air conditioning of
my car.
As you've seen the memes thatare like, it's too hot out here.
Watch how you talk to me.
Right.
You see those where it's like,yeah, that was very funny.
We're in the time where you gotto watch how you talk to me.
Cause it's too hot.
So we were in thereconditioning.
We talked it through and we, youknow, expressed our feelings

(06:08):
and, but I noticed that too likeand it's a great point you bring
out like why live so restrainedYes, we're like to fucking
recovering good girls It'sexhausting and like we're still
looking to give ourselvespermission in the safest way
possible to not do any harm tolike lose our Timber once in a
while, right or to blow offsteam Yes hot day and you're

(06:28):
like competitive and it's fun toget riled up like That's not a
bad thing.
No, and, and, and I've, I'veactually been told a couple of
times where I'll be like, yes.
Right.
And then, and then or I'll justbe like, come on.
And then

Kat (06:40):
like, Great shot!

Val (06:43):
like, wow, you can switch real quick.
I'm like, I just had to get itout.
Yeah.
I just had to get it out.
Right.
Yeah.
Or there was this meme of thislittle boy.
I mean, he must've been only twoor three years old.
He has little cat backwards andthis giant tennis racket.
It's nighttime.
Why are you, why are youdrilling your child at
nighttime?
That I don't understand.
Yeah.
Every time he hit the ball, nomatter how he hit it.
And of course, he's only two orthree, so it's just barely going

(07:04):
over.
He'd stop, turn over, and he'ddo like the power fist gesture.
He'd go, Come on! That'sawesome! Every shot, Come on!
And so, I sent it to our textgroup, and I was like this is
me, and I'm trying not to do iton every shot, but this is how I
encourage myself for the badshots.
I Was laughing when you saidgood girl, because I wasn't

(07:24):
going to tell this story, but,even though it's really funny,
but now I'm going to tell it,because you said it.
I was at Pickleball and I don'tknow if you've noticed, but I
have a new engagement ring.
No.
What?
That's new?
Oh, you've got a lot of fuckingbling.
and I was like, that's stunning,but I didn't know it to be
different than

Kat (07:44):
different than the other bling girls have.
So, so

Val (07:49):
the in an effort to kind of, and we're talking about
money today, so this is allreally amazing, anyway I'm not
allowed to wear it to pick aball.
It came with a matching set ofearrings, and I am not allowed
to wear them.
I'm like, come on babe, I'mgonna be like that, that, that
lady that like, wears herdiamonds to pick a ball.
Like, I like the juxtaposition,like, fuck you, bring it on.

(08:10):
And but I'm gonna wear mydiamonds, you know?

Kat (08:12):
know?

Val (08:13):
He was like, if they break, yeah,.
I'm divorcing you.
Oh, no.
To him, it's a divorce worthybecause.
Oh, wow.
Because.
Misuse of things or, or, orbreaking things that you didn't
need to break is really thecardinal sin from all of his
money stuff, right?
Like it's not the money.

(08:33):
It's that you were careless.
Well, I don't know how I wouldbreak those earrings playing
pickleball, but anyway, yeah, Iget it.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, has a ball ever hit you inthe ear?
I mean, is that a thing thathappens?
I don't think so.
But anyway I'm not allowed towear it.
I, I, I agreed.
I mean, he's not holding mehostage.
I agreed.
But it's funnier to say hedoesn't allow me, but I'm like,

(08:54):
okay.
I try to remember to take itoff.
Right.
One day, I didn't remember andhonestly I'd rather keep it on
my finger than put it in a bagthat it could be.
Oh yes, exactly.
So we're standing there talkingand then one of my pickleball
buddies was like, Oh my god!What's on your finger?
And I was like, oh yeah, it's anew ring.
And then I got like, embarrasseda little bit and they're like,

(09:15):
what?
I mean, did you have thatbefore?
I'm like, no, it's new.
And we always joke about anupgrade, but that kind of sounds
weird to say.
So I don't know.
I just said, yeah, I was a verygood girl.
And then, and then my friend waslike, that's the hottest thing
you've ever said.
There it is.
I was like, I guess I was a goodgirl.
She's like, that was so hot.

(09:36):
It's the hottest thing you'veever said.
And then I'm like, so there'sall the, it's all, we're in
mixed company.
I'm like, shut up.
And so I was so embarrassed.
Mixed company is such an oldthing.
We don't say that anymore.
That's not even real.
I know.
That's made up now.
I know.
I know.
How do I, okay, how do I saylike, there were other people
listening and it wasembarrassing.
They're all adults.
I know.

(09:57):
People are sexual beings.
It's allowed.
Yeah.
Oh, you're so uncomfortableright now.
Yeah, I was.
I was.
Because yeah, then I was like,oh my gosh, now I feel stupid.
And then I was like, whatever.
Wait, Val, someone was like,that's so hot.
And you're like, I feel stupid.
What is that?
I think because in my attempt toexplain my discomfort, I went to

(10:18):
humor, right?
Yeah.
I still get very I guess I getembarrassed.
Yeah.
Like that's hot.
And then also I was like, I'm agood girl.
And I'm going to get a diamond.
Like that.
I was like, Ooh, I don't likethat.
I said that, but then theythought it was hot.
So, okay.
But it's all place.
So it's all loud.
It was great.
It was great.
But you're right.
We spent just circling it allthe way back.

(10:40):
What made me think of that was,yeah, we did spend a lot of time
being good and proper andindoctrinated with so many like
rules and like restrictions.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I do, I, and like someone hascalled it out to me that if I
make a bad shot, I'm like, Ohshit.
And I had to remind people, I'mnot like giving up.
It's just.
It actually feels better to justgo, Oh shit.

(11:02):
And then like let that out.
Like that discussed or thedisappointment or the mistake,
like verbally process it and letit get out of my body.
Discharge it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, we're verbal processors.
That's what we are.
That's why our podcast is soamazing.
Yeah.
All right.
So before I move on frompickleball, two more things, two
more things.

(11:23):
One, I've been going to physicaltherapy for my ankle, for my
back, for my knee, whatever.
And the, the physical therapistwas great.
And like, you know just, youknow, well, since you're an
athlete and all this, and I'mtelling her like, I'm, you know,
playing in these tournaments andthen, you know, so she's telling
me her plan and then she's like,okay.
And so after this you're goingto be a pickleball champion.

(11:45):
And of course, I cannot let thisincorrect perception stand.
So I was like, Oh, but I alreadyam a pickleball champion.
And you know, she's like, Ohyeah, yeah, yeah.
But I've talked before about oneof my best.
You know, my best friends thatshe is my super hype girl,
overhype girl telling people wewent shopping, telling people in
the store, you know, she's apickleball champion, right?

(12:06):
Yeah.
All this stuff.
Oh my gosh.
It's too funny.
The other thing aboutpickleball.
Is that I think, I don't know ifI said it on the Pickleball
updates in the past when wefirst started the podcast, but
you may also see me in aPickleball documentary.
Oh,

Kat (12:22):
wow.

Val (12:23):
Okay.
I'm so ready for this.
It was so funny when I started,it was like, Oh yeah, I'm going
to be in a tournament.
Oh yeah, I'm going on apickleball vacation.
Oh yeah, and I'm going to be ina pickleball documentary.
So a good pickleball buddy ofmine is an award winning film
documentarian,

Kat (12:36):
film documentarian.
Oh my gosh.
Good job.

Val (12:38):
And yeah, she's been recording and she has a
Kickstarter campaign out rightnow.
So they.
Have the trailer ready.
Yeah.
And they're raising money tofinish, get the funds to finish
the documentary.
Yes.
Just talking about the lifechanging power of pickleball,
the phenomenon that ispickleball, the phenomenon that

(12:59):
is pickleball.
Yeah.
I love it so much.
So we're gonna put the link ifyou, if you feel like you wanna
donate to that.
Yeah.
And lemme get this made.
I am in the trailers.
I love it.
See it there.
Oh my gosh.
I can't wait to watch thetrailer.
So we'll put that in the shownotes.
You guys, if you guys wannadonate to making the.
The documentary happened and,and that I, that was filmed like
a year ago maybe.

(13:19):
And it's so funny how Pickleballhas become so cool now in the
beginning.
I'm like, do you know whatPickleball is now?
It's like, Oh my gosh, everybodyknows.
It's mainstream.
But so the, the interviews weredone about a year ago.
But then we had this like bigevent and she and her film crew
were following me around becauseshe's like, I just have to get
like B roll of the people whoare in the documentary.

(13:42):
So she's He's following me.
Rafik's carrying my heavypickleball bag.
Everyone is like, these are allmy friends, but they're like
what are you doing?
I'm like, yeah, you knew, youknow, I was.

Kat (13:52):
a star.

Val (13:53):
Of course, Val that makes perfect sense.
So

Kat (13:56):
good job.

Val (13:57):
that's sort of my uptake.

Kat (13:59):
I love it.
What's been

Val (14:02):
going on with you?
You gave me a teaser and I waslike, Kat, I need to know about
this.
Yeah.
So if you guys listen to thebonus episode, we we talked
about the fact that I feelreally changed and altered
because I've been doing a lot ofhealing and a lot of growth and
part of my like healing journeysinclude.

Kat (14:19):
It

Val (14:19):
Included mushrooms and psilocybin psychedelics, and
it's been a really like positiveexperience in my life Well, I
was just feeling so cocky afterour last recording that like we
recorded on a Friday and thenthat Saturday I like hung out
with some friends.
I just had like a magical dayand then I was listening to this
audiobook I told you there's allthese authors that are writing
books that were like undergroundusing

Kat (14:42):
Psychedelics

Val (14:42):
psychedelics and then you know, I've gotten really
interested in like likecosmology and metaphysics in
like a deeper way, right?
And so I'm listening to thisaudiobook while I'm like having
the most magical day.
On a Saturday and then I wake upreally early on Sunday morning
and I'm like, I'm going tofucking take all the goddamn
fucking mushrooms.
And I was like, I'm doinganother big trip, fuckers.

(15:04):
OK, so I had done a high dosetrip once before.
I talked about it in the trip.
And I was like, I talked aboutin our last podcast.
And I'm like, yeah, it's like Idon't know, there's something
kind of amazing about beingwilling to allow your concepts
of reality to expand or shiftaltogether or collapse it on
themselves.

(15:24):
Right.
And there is an element that I'mlike, it feels like I'm like an
extreme sport person, but on theinside.
Right.
And when I think about, you lookout into the universe, you look
at the stars and the cosmos andyou think about how vast it all
is, right?
From my experience, when westart doing like exploration
with our own subconscious, itfeels to me that it's as vast as

(15:48):
the whole of the universeexternally.
That's how much is in here onthe inside, right?
So I'm like, I love exploringthis shit.
It's so fun.
So, that book I was listeningto, this dude, he did 72 high
dose LSD trips over the courseof like 30 years and he's like a
college professor and it wasfascinating, he like very

(16:09):
meticulously documented likeevery one of his trips and I
heard him interviewed on apodcast and then I got his book
and I was listening to it.
Okay, so, he's over and oversaying like, it, the result, he
experienced a lot of sufferingPsycho like I don't want to say
like, how do I say this likelike tapping into human
consciousness?
Right, all of us as individualhumans have experienced

(16:30):
suffering in our lives andthere's sort of like a
collective suffering And so myexperience has been that when we
open up our consciousness.
We got to be Like, say we wantto hold more light, we also have
to be willing to hold more dark,right?
And so, like, if I'm going toopen myself up more to, like,
contain more, that means I'vegot to be willing to walk
through the hard part, too,right?

(16:51):
So anyway, that's what thisguy's talking about in the book.
And I, I do not know what myfucking deal is, Val, but I was
just like, yeah, like, why didthat egg me on?

Kat (17:00):
but it

Val (17:01):
He's like, basically cautioning everybody.
He's like I did all this so youdon't have to, right?
And I was like, yeah, fucker,I'm gonna do it, though.
Watch out, man.
So, I like That is your, like,call to action.
I don't know why, yeah.
Be careful, people.
Have caution.
Well, okay, so I can understandyou, I can understand that the,
the wanting to experience it foryourself.

(17:23):
I think so.
And I just, I don't know what itis about me that this is like
the thing that is just in me todiscover more.
And again, it does feel likethose folks that like,

Kat (17:36):
I

Val (17:36):
don't know, the, the, the, the people that feel this need
to discover the parts of theocean we haven't seen.

Kat (17:41):
Sure, sure.

Val (17:43):
And I, I, I just am one of those people, I guess.
And I'm, I'm just doing the nextthing that feels the most shiny
to me, right?
Like I'm following myenthusiasm.
And so, yeah, so understandingmy own subconscious.
And how that fits into thelarger like collective
consciousness and like raisingglobal consciousness.
And what are we doing?
And what is humankind?
And why are we here?

(18:03):
All that shit.
Right?
So, um, anyway, I, at like fourin the morning, I wake up really
early on Sunday and I decide I'mgoing to take A whole lot of
mushrooms and so they're allground up already.
I just dump a ton and I like acup of hot cocoa and I just down
it.
I go right back to bed and Iproceed to have a really, really

(18:23):
intense experience and it's veryearly on a Sunday morning and I
did not close my window.
And so I like, Oh no, what timeis it?
It's four in the morning.

Kat (18:35):
What?

Val (18:35):
That's not morning yet! I know, I know, I know.
So, I lock the doors, I feelsafe in my own home, right, my
kids are not, I'm not the payer,I'm not in charge of anything.
I feel like this is a completelyfine thing to do.
Sure, sure.
I think that now I wouldprobably not do another high
dose trip unless I have a tripsitter.
Yeah.
Because it turns out I was loud.

(18:55):
I was having an experience andmaking noises that scared my
neighbors and it was early inthe morning on a Sunday and I'm
completely out of it.
Like I'm tripping balls, right?
And so I, I can remember partsof the trip and parts of the
experience and it really didinclude like, okay, this is the
language that makes sense to me.
So you guys can just hang inthere with me.

(19:17):
And if it resonates, great.
If not, that's fine.
lIke there's lower frequency andthere's higher

Kat (19:23):
right?

Val (19:24):
And so we're all energy and like the collective human
experience.
I have lived part of my lifewhere I would say, like in my
childhood, there was a lot thatwas difficult in my childhood.
I would say that the frequencyor the energy I was in was
denser, was heavier, right?
And as I've healed, I've grown Ifeel like I'm, I'm living now in
a.
state of like higher frequency,right?

(19:45):
And it's more spacious here.
And I don't feel I, I just feelmore in line with myself.
I feel more freedom, right?
So this, this trip I'm on.
I'm sort of cycling through likesort of my own story, but then
also like the collectiveexperience of humanity and like
the low, low density.
And then I'm like, Oh, I'm likerealizing things in the trip.

(20:06):
And so I'm saying things outloud, but I don't, I don't
totally know that that's what'shappening.
But at one point during thetrip, while I'm really, really
altered, there's a knock on mywindow, which is in the back of
my apartment.
And they're saying, Hello, thisis the Oakland Pleiades.
Police, Catherine, are you okay?
And I was like...
I, I, I don't totally knowwhat's happening.

(20:27):
I don't know that it's likehappening in like, yeah.

Kat (20:30):
yeah.

Val (20:30):
And so I'm able to say out loud, I'm on a mushroom trip.
And then, and then, so thenlater I find out the whole
backstory and it was superfucking uncomfortable and very
exposing and I didn't like howit felt.
But yeah, and then I continue tohave the trip and then
eventually I'm like kind ofasleep.
I'm slowly coming to.
So it turns out a neighbor thatI don't know, here's a lot of

(20:51):
noise.
Yeah.
And, and I, I don't know exactlywhat they heard and that feels
uncomfortable to me too, right?
Like I'm having an experiencethat like isn't private.
I thought it was private, butturns out it's not private.
I didn't close my fuckingwindow.
I don't know why I didn't thinkto not close the window.
I don't know if the window wouldhave made that different, the
much difference, right?
A pane of glass.

(21:11):
Who the fuck knows how loud Iwas being?
I actually don't know.
Right?
So.
One neighbor calls a neighbor Ido know that neighbor calls my
ex husband because they can'ttell if there's like, I'm
talking enough that they're,they're not sure if it's like a
domestic issue.
Right.
And so then my neighbor, I knowthis is so fucked up.
Right.

(21:31):
And then, am I allowed to laugh?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Oh my God, I've had like weeksand weeks to integrate from
this.
Now I am so mad that you havenot told me about this.
Like, okay, I, listeners, Itook, if there's a policer
involved, if this magnitude of astory, I, I can feign surprise
on the podcast.
Come on,

Kat (21:50):
Come on.

Val (21:51):
Yeah.
No, honestly, it was difficultto talk about for a while
because it felt, I'm sureextremely uncomfortable because
again, in this is why I, I'msorry about, this is why I, I
This is why I avoid them at allcosts.
Oh, I, I feel like I would maybefiguratively die, maybe
literally, but I'd want toliterally die but figuratively.
But dying is part of it, Val.

(22:12):
Dying is the beautiful part ofit.
You die and then you're reborn.
Keep going.
It's amazing.
Okay.
So yeah, the police, this iswhat I found out later.
The police came because theneighbor that I don't know
called them because they're likeconcerned.
Sure.
Right.
And then as I'm processing it,my friends are reflecting.
Back to me.
You know, like, but you know,isn't that kind of a nice thing,
you know, that your neighborscare about you?

(22:32):
Like if something bad washappening and like, you know,
the police would come.
And I'm like, I guess mostly itmade me feel very exposed.
Sure.
In a way that I wasn't verycomfortable with.
And it also sort of kickedloose.
Like the fear of like the stateor the authority.
Oh, Uhhuh.
Right.
And I had to work through allthose kinds of feelings
afterwards.
So when I'm able to kind of comeup out of it enough to say, I'm

(22:55):
on a mushroom trip.
The police are talking to theneighbors that are like out
there, listening to me.
They're like, yep, okay, bye.
Right?
There's no problem.
There's nothing to do.
Right?
That's it.
You've probably had many othercalls like that.
this is not an illegal thingthat I am producing.
I'm an adult.
I'm like safe at home.
And you're okay.
Yeah.
It's a wellness check.
Wellness check.
Yeah.
Basically.
Yes.

(23:15):
Yeah.
And so they left and then Ifound one of my other neighbors
my ex husband calls the neighborthat I'm closer to and she fills
me in on some of the things andit was just weird and awkward.
I was so like, Embarrassed thatlike my ex husband was sort of
brought into he's not this isnot his deal at all Yeah, like
we're not close friends at all.

(23:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah He's a great parent andwe're doing fine like swapping
the kids back and forth Butyeah, like one time when we were
having conflict I was like, whatif we just did mushrooms
together and he was likeabsolutely not and then this
only fueled his like I willnever do that.
I was like it feels fucking goodYeah, but no, and then I had,

(23:56):
okay, that's the thing, right?
So I had that experience, whichit feels to me like.

Kat (24:01):
It keeps

Val (24:02):
opening and opening my consciousness.
I can hold more, more duality.
I can hold more both and.
I can hold more contradictionbecause it's all of us just
having these human experiencesand it, it allows you to zoom
out so far that you're like,we're already, we're okay.
Like it's not wrong.
None of it feels wrong.
I don't know how to explain itany better than that, but yeah,

(24:23):
so, but it took a while.
Can I ask?
What was the content of like,were you just like making loud
noises or were you sayingthings?
You don't have to say what itwas, but yeah.
Okay.
So what it felt like.
Okay.
Can you guys all picture likethe double helix of a d n A kind
of spiral?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
it felt like I was it.
Playing a game where you gothrough the spiral just to have

(24:44):
experiences and the spiral werelike you could see like the
different levels.
It was frequency.
Okay, when I think about likewhat this all is, like the idea
like simulation theory is notnew.
I'm not inventing this, but theexperiences I'm having when I
explore psychedelics areconfirming this idea that we're
in a virtual reality situation.
Yeah, that we're quantum physicstalks about this too, right?

(25:05):
So like when you get to thesmallest point of what an atom
actually is, it's just energy.
It's just energy.
So it's not a new idea.
But while I was on themushrooms, I'm seeing this thing
and it looks like this sort of aspiral staircase or like the,
the double helix thing, right?
And each level I'm feeling, I'mexperiencing the vibration of

(25:28):
that.
I'm experiencing what it feelslike to be in that low level of
density and it's difficult.
It doesn't feel good, right?
And then, then there's like,then I, in, in the trip I sort
of realized, Oh, if I justaccept it, if I stop resisting
it, and then it lifted me up tothe next one.

(25:48):
And then, and then there waslike.
It was like I could hear thingslike, like follow your joy.
Right.
And then I could lift up thenext one.
And then it was, it's all just agame.
And then I could lift up thenext one.
It felt like it was not just mehaving an individual experience.
It felt like humanconsciousness, like how we all
lift up, how we raiseconsciousness.
When we start to infuse moreplay and more joy into our life,

(26:11):
we move out of like a constantstate of trauma.
This is hard.
This is dark.
Right.
With the thing about learning,like Children who've been
through difficult things have ahard time playing like adults
who like stuck in trauma withhard time playing and that's why
Pickleball is sweeping thenation, right?
It's so powerful in your lifebecause when we get to center

(26:33):
our lives around pleasure andplay, It is raising our
vibration.
And so I keep going up and upand up.
And then again, there's sort oflike these phrases on every
level to get to the next one.
And I'm saying those things outloud and then I get all the way
to the top and it starts to getlike.
Like, like the air gets, I don'tknow, air is not the right word,

(26:53):
but the atmosphere just getsmore and more spacious and
spacious and spacious and it'sall white when you get kind of
the top.
It's like, it feels less,

Kat (27:03):
I

Val (27:03):
don't know how to explain this, but there's less
population there.
Right.
If you will.
And then you get to this.
sense of like blissed out stateand then there's this like it's
a spiral it's like the infinitysign you just keep going and
then i was like oh my god i'mgonna do it again and then i
would drop right back down tothe lowest five oh wow i'd have

(27:26):
to redo the whole thing againi'd be like oh this is hard this
doesn't feel very good i don'tthink i like this oh if i just
if i just

Kat (27:35):
Like, yield.

Val (27:37):
Oh, if I just stopped resisting and then I just went
all through the levels over andover again.
That was the trip.
It was that thing over and overagain.
Like, I think that maybe iswhat, you know, human
consciousness is just doing.
We're just having experiencesand we're learning these lessons
on in new different ways and newperspectives and all that kind
of shit.
And then somewhere in all that,the police are like, you okay?

(27:58):
And I'm like, I'm on a mushroomtrip.
But I think that in the lower.
Lower frequency experience.
It wouldn't surprise me if I'myelling.
I don't remember yelling.
Okay.

Kat (28:08):
Yeah So,

Val (28:11):
Yeah So yeah, that's really intense.
Wow, that's so intense.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah last episode We we teasedthat there is like something
with aliens.

Kat (28:19):
right?

Val (28:20):
and so there's this it's kind of moving into mainstream
topic of conversation, right,because these different
governments, like our governmentand the Mexico government are
like saying, Hey, there's some,there's some shit going on that
we haven't been talking aboutand we're going to talk about it
somewhat.
And so I've been followingsomeone for a little while who
like channels a,

Kat (28:40):
uh,

Val (28:41):
I don't know how to technically you could call them
an alien, but what they'redescribing themselves as is a.
A higher frequency being whowants to help in the ascension
of the earth, right?
And so this person is just aperson like Miryu who's
channeling this higher frequencybeing, maybe an alien, right?

(29:02):
To give us like, like little peptalks, like, Hey, here, if you
do these things, you'll raiseyour vibration.
And then.
We'll get to like move the wholeearth to this place where we can
create the kind of lives that weall like dream about, right?
Where we have eliminated likeunnecessary suffering, where
we're not under the thumb ofcapitalism and oppressive

(29:22):
systems that more and more ofus, all of us get to be free the
way instinctively we know weshould be able to be in the
world.
Right?
So anyway, wow.
Yeah.
What a teaser.
Well, and so one of my, my bigmushroom trips, like, like
something felt like made contactwith me.
Oh, yes.
That was the thing.
That was the thing.
I was like, Oh my God, what thefuck is this?
And so I've been working throughmy own resistances to that, my

(29:45):
own biases with that.
And like, what the fuck do Iwant to do with this?
And I don't know, like, like, Ohmy God, am I just going to be
like, Oh no, like now I'm likeone of the crazy people in the
shows I watch.
I'm like, Oh fuck.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Damn it.
What the fuck did I do?
Like, whoops!

Kat (29:58):
an

Val (29:59):
That was an accident, fuckers! Like, shit! Like, you
became a, not a guru, but like,I became a guru on accident.
Yeah, I'm just following myhighest enthusiasm.
Next thing I know, I'm like, Oh,I think I'm channeling aliens.
They're nice.

Kat (30:13):
though.

Val (30:14):
But when we were Pentecostal, we were channeling
the Holy Spirit, so why am I sofucking freaked out now, right?
Oh, I think we were talkingthrough polos and you were like,
I'm not talking about aliensthrough micro polo video
messaging.
But I was, but then I was like.
The brat I am I was like can youjust tell me like, okay, were
they nice?

(30:34):
Were they like, oh Catherine youso great or like were they did
they have a message like was itpeace and love?
And you were like, yeah kind ofyeah, I know again I had to work
through a lot of stuff to not belike, well, that's the thing.
It's very different It feelsvery outside of what was It's
normalized to me, like, in oursubculture, in our upbringing,
in mainstream culture, like,like, channeling other beings is

(30:58):
like a weird thing.
That's weird, right?
It's crazy, right?
If the TV's talking to you, youare crazy, right?
Yes.
And so, like, the TV has beentalking to me, right?
Just in a way that, like, it'sreflecting.

Kat (31:12):
things to me that I've been learning about, right?
And so I'm like, wow, this is soamazing.

Val (31:17):
So yeah, yeah, we've been talking about like how similar
and yet how different we are.
And as you were talking aboutthis, like double helix or out
of the infinity DNA thing.
I can always find the threadthat like keeps us like
tethered.
Like, yes, you know, so much ofmy work with people is like the
radical acceptance and thecontrol and then, and then the

(31:40):
play.
And so when you were talkingabout like coming out of trauma
and then coming out in some,acceptance and play and I think
those are sort of the threadsthat the information is good
information.
It's just a weird, not exactlymainstream way to get the
information.
Well, and it's definitely morefun, isn't it, than sitting

(32:00):
there and talking to yourtherapist about like, well, I
really think you need to havethis concept.
Well, you've already talkedabout those concepts.
Yeah.
And now you're like.
On a trip, like experience.
And I think the, I think whatthe mushrooms are doing is
having me experience it on thefucking collective levels.
Right.
And I don't know, like there'ssomething in me and you probably
relate to this too, but thisdesire to be of service to

(32:21):
humanity.
That's the way we were fuckingin ministry.
Right.
We're like, Oh, Jesus is goingto help us all.
Right.
And so now I'm like, you know.
Jesus in his time was probablylike an awakened master, right?
And then Christianity turns intothis other sort of weird
controlling thing that I don'treally jive with that anymore,
but Jesus Yeshua, Christ energy.

(32:43):
I mean New Age circles aresaying all that shit too, right?
They love Jesus.
They really do.
Really?
Oh, yeah.
Interesting.
They just you know, Christianitytook it in this whole thing.
They tried to control thenarrative, right?
But in like new age circles,people are going to be like,
yeah, there's Buddha, there'sJesus.
All the different doors.
Yeah.
There's again, humanity isincredibly diverse.

(33:03):
And so there's, if you look atit as we're all consciousness,
having the fun of variousexperiences, the more varied,
the better.
And then there's a million pathsto sort of follow your highest
enthusiasm to get to the placewhere you're like free from
oppression, where you're free tobe your most unique Youself,
right?

(33:24):
And so as I'm on my own journey,like the most free, unique self,
me is a fucking weirdo.
Like super fucking weird.
We were on the drama team.
We always knew we were weirdos alittle.
Oh my gosh, yeah.
But I had to do a lot of workaround the like, how giving
myself permission to be like,yeah, this is the shit I'm into.
And that's okay.
Yeah.

(33:44):
I don't expect anyone else to beinto it.
Yeah.
And also.
Our background in Christianity,we were like fucking taught to
proselytize, right?
We were like, you gotta believewhat I believe, otherwise you're
fucking going to hell.
That mushroom trip was hell.
Like, that's what the lowvibration is.
There's lots of people talkingabout like, we create hell in
our present reality, right?
When we don't like lovinglyreconcile ourself to our own

(34:07):
internal dark.
Or find a way to heal throughcompassion the traumas we've
experienced.
Then we perpetuate an experienceof hell.
But healing lifts us up out ofthat.
And so the other thing is thatpeople are talking about, like,
you can experience heaven,right?
You can experience all of thegood and all of the beauty here

(34:27):
in this projected reality untilyou get to die and go figure out
whatever the heck is really onthe other side of all this.
Yeah.
You were talking aboutExperiencing the mushroom trip.
It reminds me that they did someresearch and this is very loose
information but that You know,we try to work very Western

(34:48):
thought we work with the brainand our thoughts and not our
bodies and things but thatImagining like I do this a lot
with yes

Kat (34:58):
What's

Val (34:58):
term worst case scenario,

Kat (34:59):
Yeah.
Catastrophizing.

Val (35:01):
catastrophizing that our brain is already imagining the
worst.

Kat (35:04):
Right.

Val (35:05):
And dropping all those chemicals in your body.
So, so a way to combat that isto actually actively imagine the
best case scenario happening andhow imagining actually gets to
parts of the brains that, thatlike logic or the thought
reasoning cannot get to and itcan actually have those changes.
So.
Thank you.
So that's just like still talktherapy still like imagination.

(35:28):
So how much more the chemicalsthat are getting in your brain?
Very interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Oh, man.

Kat (35:35):
That's some big stuff.

Val (35:36):
Okay, one of the things that the mushrooms helped me
see, yes, because I continue towant to be free.
And one of the ways that I wasnot experiencing freedom and was
anticipating you know, worstcase scenario was around money.

Kat (35:48):
Okay.

Val (35:49):
Okay.
So that's why I decided that'swhat I wanted us to talk about
today.
Yeah.
And you pointed out that we didhow many 30 episodes and never
talked about money.
Yeah.
That's wild.
Yeah.
So let's, let's just talk aboutmoney.
Let's demystify it.
Right.
So money is an amplifying energythat exists in the world.
Right.
It amplifies.
So in my own story, I was raisedpart of the like working poor

(36:11):
blue collar class of people inthe Midwest.
We were in Toledo, Ohio.
We, We, we just didn't haveanything extra and I just grew
up knowing not to ask for shit.
Knowing to not have, like you'retalking about the imagination,
like I, again, there wasadditional trauma in my
childhood.
And so most of my childhood, Inow understand that I was just

(36:33):
numb, like I turned off and thenwhen I was in my Early teens, I
had a conversion experience withthe Pentecostals, and it felt
like the light switch was turnedon, right, after being turned
off, and so spirituality thenstarted to be my highest
enthusiasm, because it was thefirst thing that, like, turned
the light of me, just turned iton, you know, and for a long

(36:54):
time, it felt like, well, thankyou, Jesus, that was because of
Jesus, and then You know, ourstories have evolved and so now
it's just, I would say, moreeclectically spirituality has
been that for me.
So I ended up getting married tosomeone whose relationship with
money was not full of scarcitylike mine was, right?
And so I just abdicatedeverything to my former spouse.

(37:15):
And now that I'm, you know, nolonger with someone who's like
going to work and covering thebills.
I was trying to figure out,like, I'm gonna have to fucking
lean in and face this and it, itfelt really scary.
But once, once like the mushroomhelped me, like it really did,
it was like there's talk therapyand I knew that money made me

(37:36):
feel anxious and I was like, Iwant to be free from this
anxiety.
coalesced.

Kat (37:41):
circumstances coalesced.

Val (37:44):
And I had to do the thing that I talk about us doing,
right, where you like, you sitdown with yourself and you look
yourself square in the face andyou're as honest as you can
possibly be, right?
And so as I'm doing that aroundthe issue of money, I realized,
Oh my God, I've been afraid mywhole life of money.
And then.

Kat (38:05):
And then

Val (38:06):
again, those years that I was married, I got to experience
like, I don't know, kind of amodest middle class experience,
right?
But I didn't

Kat (38:14):
actively

Val (38:15):
have the power.
I wasn't empowered, right?
Everything was like asking forpermission and like, you know
what I mean?
And then, so I kind of just waslike, go with the flow and
always like, you know.
A couple times like we had likeconflict about something that I
felt like really strongly.
This is the thing I want to do,but it costs too much money and

(38:35):
then that became a whole thing.
Anyway, so.

Kat (38:39):
I

Val (38:40):
I realized that I, that fear was like the bedrock of
that.
Okay, so there's the, thechildhood stuff and then you add
to that Christianity's, youknow, the love of money is the
root of all evil, right?
So there was tons of propaganda,again, telling me to stay small,
to, to limit my imagination withlike, my relationship with, with
money wasn't just like how am Igoing to pay the bills?

(39:01):
It was like, I couldn't evenimagine wealth, like I could
not.
Imagine being wealthy and it wasreally interesting to me.
So then I ended up signing up.
I realized that I've been afraidof money and I like the next day
I find out about a course wherethese two women are teaching,
teaching financial literacy toother women.
Right?
And I was like, Oh my God, theuniverse.

(39:21):
Thank you.
So then there's a, they talkabout some books that they want
you to read.
They have their own curriculum.
They do a whole a couple,several lessons all about like
our emotional, spiritualrelationship with money.
And I'm reading these booksabout it and it's just helping
open me up, right?
It's the allowing myself toimagine a different way of being
a different relationship withmoney.

(39:43):
And I really, I don't know thatI could have gotten all the way
underneath it without the helpof the mushrooms, right?
Right, because they help withthe pain that might be
surrounding that.
Also, I think our subconsciousis really good at like hiding
stuff from us because it's tooscary.
Yeah, protective.
Sure.
And then so, you know in ourculture money means survival.

(40:03):
Yeah.
And so I, I just was afraid andthen the mushrooms helped me
like get past those I don't knowwhy our brains do it, but they
had, I had these likeroadblocks.
I couldn't see the truth of ituntil the.

Kat (40:19):
The

Val (40:19):
The psychedelics helped me get to the full truth of it,
right?
And then as soon as I was ableto like own my whole truth,
there's deep fear here Suddenlysupport just immediately showed
up.
It was beautiful.
And then around that time I waslike, okay well, I need a way to
earn a little more money Likeyou know my kid's dad does pay

(40:39):
some amount in child support,but then I'm responsible to
cover the rest.
And I have this conviction aboutlike not doing anything I don't
want to do.
Yes, you do.
I know, but it feels very like aspiritual practice and difficult
in our culture.
Yeah.
It felt really important to me.
I was like, well, if theuniverse.
is really going to support methen I'm going to figure out

(41:01):
what I can do that is fun andthat feels good where I just, it
feels spacious, right?
And so When you say spacious inthis context, what do you mean?
Well, what I mean is I wouldthink about various jobs I could
get, right?
And some of them made me feeltight and restrictive and, and
like, it felt bad in my body.

(41:21):
You know?
Like, I could do any number ofthings just to earn a paycheck,
but if it, if it made me feeltight in my body or dread,
right, the feeling of dread Idon't want to get up in the
morning and not want to go towork.
That feels.
Like some, I don't want to haveto push myself to do that.
I have had those experiences.
I absolutely did all that shittoo in my life, but there's a
conviction in me that I don'tthink that's how I'm supposed to

(41:43):
live, right?
I want to be free.
So if all the shit I've beenplaying in is, is real for me,
then there's gotta be a solutionthat involves spaciousness, that

Kat (41:52):
involves spaciousness,

Val (41:54):
feeling of like, Oh, I want to, this is fun to me.
Right?
Yes.
Can I, can I say, I love thatyou just said that, cause you
know, I'm sort of like, not yourdevil's advocate cause that's
like a nasty game, but likereally, I'm like, okay, Kat,
fine.
Yeah.
You only do what you want to do.
Like we've had this funny banteron the podcast, but I love what
you just said, which helps itclick in my brain is that you

(42:14):
were looking for a solution.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Like, Oh yeah.
I'm actively engaged in theprocess.
Right.
Like that there, you're onlygoing to do what you feel is
spacious.

Kat (42:25):
Yeah.

Val (42:26):
But you're looking for a solution, right?
Yeah.
Oh yeah, because, you know, Iabsolutely can see where you
could take these concepts andthen just be like, Yeah, I'm
just...
I'm not going to engage, right?
Yeah.
Or, or if I don't find somethingspacious, I'm not going to do
anything.
Yeah.
And then that doesn't seem likereal life to me.
But I would say you might evensaying what feels the most

(42:47):
spacious for what I can findright now.
Oh yeah.
And just again, like all we haveis the present moment.
So in this present moment,right?
Yeah.
But.
There's this, the tension of, Iwant to pay my bills and take
good care of my children.
So I'm going to play the game ofextending beyond the present
moment and being like, I've gotto bring in some money to keep
my household afloat within theculture that we live in, in this

(43:10):
simulation.
Okay.
So what happened is I've beendriving around this old minivan
for a long time.
I've had it the whole time I wasmarried and I just stopped
wanting to drive this car.
And I was like, I want.
a new car.
If I got a new car, I coulddrive for Lyft.
Okay, so literally, I get theidea to get a new car.

(43:33):
And I am, I realize if I'm gonnabe able to get a car loan, I'm
probably gonna need a co-signer'cause I don't have any work
history and my ex-husband's notgonna co-sign a loan for me So I
have like this amazing greatfamily friend who I just one day
was like, Hey, will you like putyour name on the dotted line for
like, you know, thousands ofdollars of like alone But also I

(43:54):
was like, well, the universewants to support me and so I.
They set up a GoFundMe and I gotlike a thousand dollars in like
two or three days.
People that just love me thathave known me.
I'm like, hey, I'm we're in astate of transition.
I'm basically starting over.
I referenced that in our lastpodcast.
Like I really feel like In someways I'm starting from zero, but
it's not zero because I have somuch wealth of like, again, self

(44:16):
awareness and healing and allthese different things, right?
My aliveness feels very bright,like probably brighter than it's
ever been in my life.
And so this is the thing that Iwant to do.
I want a new car.
And I'm going to pay for the newcar by driving for a lift.
That sounds fucking fun to me.
So the pandemic, like most ofour circles, social circles got
smaller and you and I are prettygregarious social people.

(44:38):
And so I was like, Oh my God,I'm getting paid money to
socialize and drive peoplearound.
I actually enjoy driving around.
And then we live in the mostbeautiful part of the world,
right?
Like the Bay Area is gorgeous.
So.
I'm in, like, my, like, city,but I'm discovering, like, new
nooks and crannies, I'm having,like, fun adventures, I'm

(45:00):
having, like, incredibleconversations with people, and
then people fuckin love to tipme, like, on the app it talks
about, like, the average amountthat someone makes for driving
in our area, and I'm clearingway more than that, because I'm
just being me.
I'm just being me who's like, ohmy god, I'm having a great day
today, how are you doing

Kat (45:19):
yeah,

Val (45:19):
you know?
And I only do it when I want to.
And I'm making enough money tolike, pay my bills and I'm
literally only doing it when Iwant to and I'm like, holy shit,
you know, even the process oflike getting the new car and I'm
so grateful to my friend wholike helped me, you know, and
did the co signing like we wenttogether to go buy the car.
It was really interestingbecause I, I thought I had to
get like the cheapest car Icould possibly get.

(45:41):
So we go there, we drive a car.
I wanted to get a Prius for thegood gas mileage.
And and then because it was morethan 10 years old, I couldn't
get a very good APR on a loanand I have good credit and then
my friend has like, he's gotlike excellent credit, like the
best credit you could possiblyhave.
And so they're telling me whatthe like terms of the loan are

(46:01):
and I was like, no, you need todo better.
Like I have good credit.
He has excellent credit.
Like I brought a co signer inhere because I wanted a good
APR.
It's like I'm not paying forthat.
And then the guy sort of looked.
dumbfounded.
And so he's explaining to methat the, the the, the banks
don't want to give out a loanfor a car that's more than 10

(46:21):
years old.
And I was like, okay, I'm goingto look at cars that are, you
know, not 10 years old.
And then, so it was interesting.
I didn't know where that camefrom.
I didn't anticipate that, butlike, that wasn't good enough.
Like they, and I was like, Ideserve better, right?
Like I deserve a better rate.
Like you better fucking give mea great rate.
It surprised me.
And then they go and they dotheir thing and I'm like talking

(46:43):
to my friend who's there with meand I was like, well, I don't
really know where that camefrom, but you know, and then I
ended up getting a car that Ijust love so much and the
color's pretty and I just, I'mlike, Oh my God, that's amazing.
I just.
keep following the thing thatfeels the most shiny, right?
And recognizing when I actuallywant something.
Again, my childhood, I livedmost of that numb.

(47:04):
I had a hard time knowing whatthe fuck I wanted.
The lights got turned on becauseI went to this Pentecostal
church.
I felt called to the ministryand I followed that.
But a lot of that was stillother in within the religion in
that worldview, other thingsproject onto me of what I
wanted.
You know what I mean?
So So now I've had todeconstruct almost every fucking

(47:25):
part of my life and when I saylike the mushrooms part of the
dying is good, that's what Imean.
I mean we're fucking programmedall the way up to like from our,
you know, our, Toenails all theway to the top hair on our head.
We're full of messaging, right?
Yeah about this is the way itshould be and these are things
but when we do the inside workto figure out what the Fuck do I

(47:46):
actually want and then we startto try to move our life forward
where we're centering our ownExperiences we're centering our
actual pleasure and our actualjoy and and learning, you know
how to live authentically It'skind of amazing That is amazing
So, what do you think thebiggest change for you is about
money I'm not afraid of itanymore.

(48:09):
Okay, and I have this goodfriend who so I start learning
this stuff.
I start doing the work And, andjust realizing where some of
these messages came from andthen again, like letting go of a
belief system that just doesn'tserve me.
So scarcity doesn't serve any ofus, right?
That fear because you'reanticipating and I still see a
little remnants here and I justgently, when I feel those

(48:30):
thoughts come up, I just gentlyacknowledge them and then say,
okay, but that's not what we'redoing anymore.
Now we're doing this other thingof like, I believe that
everything that I need is goingto show up for me.
I'm also really fortunate inthat, like, I do have my art
store.
So that's passive income, right?
So I can drive for Lyft justwhen I want to.
I got like a paid speaking giglast month and I'm like, things

(48:53):
are just working out without mehaving to hustle, without me
having to like,

Kat (48:56):
don't know.

Val (48:57):
Harm.
Myself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hustle.
Yeah.
Hustle is usually.
Yeah.
Has some harm to it, doesn't it?
To our wellbeing.
And then there's this, this sortof sense of like, you know, it
feels scary because of ourmessaging, because of the
programming to believe that wecan actually lean in and rest
into the universe supports us.

(49:19):
Right?
That feels very scary.
We used to feel that way when itwas God.
I was so, I had a lot of accessto childlike faith, like, Oh my
God, God said this is what we'regoing to do.
This is what we're you knowwhat's interesting is there's a
verse, right?
That I, that I would alwaysquote to people about consider
the lilies of the field.
Like the flowers, the birds,they're taken care of by nature.

(49:41):
Like they're the thing that thelilies were more beautifully
dressed than King Solomon andall his, right.
And, and that like for, for avery anxious, worried person, I
feel like that was kind of whatyou're saying.
Like rest into the universe,rest into God rested, like that
there is.
provision out there for you andthat is a powerful reframe.

(50:05):
Well, here's the other thing, inour culture it's like, it's all
gotta be money, like abundanceis, I got a lot of money in the
bank, but abundance is actuallymore than that.
It's about having community,right?
Abundance is more than justmoney.
Right now, there was a crisispoint in the summer where I was
like, it felt like a free fall,like, I do not know where any of
this is gonna come together.
Our culture is like pridefulabout stuff.

(50:27):
Like we don't want to ask forhelp, right?
And that's dumb, right?
We do need one another I'mallowed to ask for support.
I'm allowed to like, reach outto my landlady and say, hey it's
tight.
Can I pay a reduced amount forthree months?
And I've been in the same placefor 15 years and she knows me
and she was like, yes.
And then I had the idea aboutthe car and it was like, there

(50:47):
was this It was a window of timewhere it was like, I just did
the next thing that made senseto me to try.
I put out the GoFundMe thing andI was like, is all the money for
the car going to come?
Am I going to have to get aloan?
And then what came in was likeabout a thousand dollars and I
was like, okay well then that Ihad the trade in value and so I
had enough for a good dumbpayment and then I had again ask

(51:08):
for help, right?
And so like there's the both andof

Kat (51:13):
I

Val (51:14):
am going to take responsibility for the truth
about my life.
The truth is I have been afraidof money.

Kat (51:20):
I've

Val (51:20):
I've been afraid to have it, to hold it, to want it.
I was afraid to want it Val, asthough that was a somehow.
Like I couldn't be a spiritualperson and be someone who wanted
money, right?
That was just programming.
That was a lie I don't need tolive that way.
And so I had to like deconstructthat stuff.
I had to die I had to kill theCatherine that thought she

(51:41):
couldn't fucking have money.
Okay, and then so I take thatclass I get some support.
I asked my friends for help withthe GoFundMe and then I asked
Ask a particular like kindamazing friend to be my co
signer and he's so brave andwonderful and he did that with
me.
And then I get the car and Ihave to learn a new thing.
I have to like download this appand I start have to like drive
people around and it's there's alearning curve and it was

(52:03):
uncomfortable that first littlebit and I kept reminding myself
of like, Oh, this is just thelearning edge.
Like don't get discouraged,Catherine, right?
Like the app is a little bitcomplex.
Once you get the hang of it,super fun and easy.
Yeah.
Right.
And then like.
Learning the the etiquette oflike letting strangers in your
car.
That's an unusual experience.
Yeah, you just sort of adjust toyou

Kat (52:23):
it.

Val (52:23):
Do they want to talk do they want to some do some don't
that's totally fine, right?
I don't make everyone talk to meanyway And so and then my I have
a friend a good brilliantamazing friend who we do
mushrooms together sometimes andwe love talking about all this
like metaphysical cosmology shitlike it's So, so fun.
And so we were like, well, how'sthe universe going to support
us?
Where's the energy?

(52:44):
What's the thing that feels fun?
And we're like, we should justwin

Kat (52:46):
lottery.

Val (52:47):
And then we're like, Oh my God, let's play the lottery.
So then we're doing all theselike, so we decided.
That we were going to play thelotto as a spiritual practice.
I

Kat (53:00):
know!

Val (53:00):
Isn't that hilarious?
Okay, so, I love it so much, itmakes me so happy.
So there's three of us playingthe lotto, and we, every time,
it's the imagination thing thatyou were talking about, right?
Mm.
So at first, the first few timeswe played, it felt like a crisis
to imagine winning a shit ton ofmoney because I really, I had to
do a lot of internal work toexpand my ability to even

(53:23):
conceive of having wealth and orholding wealth, which is really
interesting.
And so every time we play, itfeels like I'm winning something
because I'm like, I'm growing mycapacity.
It almost feels like, you know,how You start working out in the
gym and your lungs have morecapacity the more you do like
cardiovascular work.

(53:43):
It felt literally like that.
It felt like, like, it feltdifficult at first to even
imagine Like saying that I wantto win the lotto like that's so
strange that was hard to say itBut it was hard to say I want to
win the lottery.
I want to be a millionaire.
That's fucked up crazy It was sohard for me to say but I got

(54:03):
there and then I was like Okay,and then I started to be like,
how would I be of service?
anD I started in, in invitingreally creative thought again
from sort of a higher realm, ifyou will, of like, how could I
be of service with this kind ofmoney?
And then I also had to do thisthing of like, what if I gave
away no money?
Like I was doing, I was comingat it from every possible angle.

(54:25):
angle to just expand my capacityto engage with wealth to say, I
want wealth.
I deserve wealth.
I'm allowed to have wealth.
I can be wealthy.
I can win the fucking lotto.
So my friend and I are probablygoing to do a podcast where
we're like, how to win thelotto, playing the lottery as a
spiritual practice, becauseyeah, we live in capitalism and

(54:48):
more and more people are wakingup to the fact that we don't
want to be slaves to capitalism.
So let's win some fucking money.
Let's all win.
The.
fucking lottery, right?
Let's redo it all.
Yeah.
As a spiritual practice.
Isn't that hilarious?
Like people like shit on thelotto.
Like you're like, Oh my God, allthe suckers are playing the
lotto because the stats are sowrong.
or so minuscule, yet a persondid win the lotto, right?

(55:10):
And you expand your creativity,you expand your imagination,
like, like if someone is out inthe world doing something
amazing that you are like, Icould never do that.
Why?
A person is doing that, right?
Someone you can see alive in theworld at the same time as you is
actually doing that.
Why can't you too, right?
So I'm playing the game of life.
I decided it could be me.

(55:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love it.
You know, as you're talking, I'mthinking of my own story.
I grew up very probably veryworking blue class blue, blue
collar, middle class with noextras.
I don't.
think I ever, at least myparents, I never knew that like
it was hard to put food on thetable or anything like that.
But there was like, don't ask togo on the extra field trip.

(55:54):
Don't ask for like yourLetterman jacket or I actually
did get my Letterman jackets,but you know, like that had,
that was a giant deal.
And I think growing up in aroundthe church and money and it
being, but it also says the loveof money is the root of all
evil, right?
Not money.
I remember, I think if we were,it was when we, cause you know,

(56:14):
if you know us, we went to thisthing about Bible college,
hearing a missionary's wife saythat how difficult it was around
money for them cause they had toraise their funds to go.
Right.
So they're asking people supportme and someone had given her
used clothing, but it was niceused clothing and how, and I
think there was even like a furcoat, which now, I mean, but I

(56:36):
Like nice or this let's even saydesigner clothes and when she
wore them to church people.
Yeah I got in big troublescorned because how dare she
right and she's like, you know Ididn't even pay and they don't
know how like we have no moneyBut you know, so you weren't
even allowed to be blessed or orI gifted things by other people,
right?
Yeah, so there was some of thatand we just we didn't have

(56:58):
extras and You know, I think wewere taught to tithe, right?
10 percent to the church.
I remember getting my littleallowance of like 2 and tithing
20 cents.
Right.
And being I remember praying forour family to get a new car.
But as an adult, you know, Ispent my twenties in San
Francisco, very expensive place,and then we got married and, you

(57:20):
know, my husband's an immigrantto this country and, but an
entrepreneur and.

Kat (57:25):
and

Val (57:26):
You know, we paid off debt very quickly, had no debts.
And then after several years,his business starts to be very
successful and profitable.
And I remember being so shockedand also like embarrassed or
like shy, shy is probably thebest word.

(57:47):
Sure.
Okay.
Yeah.
But I was even saying to you,like one of the things that I've
been.
Well, bringing me pleasure andpain is that I'm, I'm learning
to drive the boat, but it's asmaller boat than the other
boat.
And I was like, I don't evenwant to say that we have a boat
on the podcast, right?
Cause boat means there's somekind of money unless someone
gave it to you.
Right.

Kat (58:04):
Anyway, we

Val (58:04):
ended up having these BMWs that I'll be, Oh my gosh.
Like.
The cars that we drove is likeour family.
It was like it was fallingapart, right?
Right.
We had a little Ford that theydon't even make anymore.
I was embarrassed to like bringit to work Mm hmm and be like
that when you had a nice car youwere embarrassed to drive it to
work.
Mm hmm Yeah, it felt too likeshowy or like It could be I was

(58:27):
working for a non profit Butagain, right like what and it
was like my husband's businesspartner that wanted the BMWs to
release like we didn't even wantthat Yeah, but there's yeah,
there's like some like shyness.
I don't know that I was saying Icouldn't see myself I think
there was a big fear of it alldisappearing not being able to
hold on to it and that Emotionalimpact.

(58:50):
Right.
So I had a lot of fear.
I had, I had tons of yeah,anxiety and I think actually it
was you helped me with like thecontrol, the illusion of
control.
Cause I was like, even myfriends knew, I was like, I just
wish my husband had like a w twoform.
Like he worked for a company,that's a very big illusion of
control.
Yeah.
Right.
And so it's funny how the thingI wished for, because I thought

(59:11):
it would give me safety,wouldn't have given us the life
that I think we're leading now.
And so just that illusion ofcontrol.
So once I gave up that like, ohyeah, W2 is an illusion of
control.
He could get laid off.
The company could like, gobankrupt or their stock prices
go down, whatever.
And I think it's wild because welive in the Bay Area where tech
money is like above

Kat (59:30):
and beyond, like,

Val (59:31):
all these things.
So anyway.
Once I was able to give up theillusion of control then and
really go to that place of likesafety of like, so what?
So what if it happens?
Like, I'll

Kat (59:43):
Yeah, like

Val (59:44):
be okay.
Yeah.
We will be okay.
We'll be okay.
That distress tolerance, we willbe okay.
It's not the end of the worldthat that felt like the end of
the world thing for me.
If that, if that we were to likelose it or whatever.
Yeah.
But you know, some of my updatesthat I didn't give last time.
It's so funny.
We're talking about this isabout money.
And as you're talking.
Well, anyway, first let me sayyou know, I talked a lot about

(01:00:05):
my relationship last season.
So I feel like I don't want tobe one of those, like, you know,
Facebook couples or Instagramwhere all of a sudden, like,
they're just like, all thepictures are gone.
Like they're not, I mean, Rafiq,my husband is still around.
I just hugged him.
He's grown his hair out.
He looks very handsome.
And I, it's funny cause he drovefor Uber back in the day.
I remember that.

(01:00:25):
Yeah.
He had a great time.
It was also a thing that heloved to talk to people,

Kat (01:00:30):
um,

Val (01:00:31):
but, and he came down here and he told you how he's like,
you know following his dreams oflike being more of an
entertainer.
He said to me.

Kat (01:00:40):
He

Val (01:00:41):
said, babe, you can't let me change if I get super famous,

Kat (01:00:48):
Like, okay.
He's

Val (01:00:49):
like, okay, do you think I changed after like, you know, we
got some more money and I'mlike, no, I don't think you
have.
He's like, okay.
He's like, but he's like soearnest.
Like you have to tell me if Ichange.
I'm like, don't worry.
Yeah.
Don't worry.
We're good at that.
I'm good.
I think that's interestingmessaging.
Like, okay.
Even like the whole like idea oflike Jenny from the block,
right?
Like the idea that you're notallowed to be different than you

(01:01:09):
were once you've achieved somelevel of success.
Well, I have, I don't know thatthat serves any of us, right?
Sure.
We're constantly evolving.
It's one of our questions,right?
How are you changing?
How are you evolving?
And so like we're allowed toevolve like I think because our,
our culture perpetuated such a,a contentious relationship with
money that once you have money,we're like, Oh, you can't

(01:01:31):
change.
But like, Actually, everythingbeing more spacious, like you
having access to things andthings being easy, like it would
probably impact us.
It's okay.
Ah.
So yeah.
So you're talking about, yeah,positive change.
Like, yeah, you could be lessstressed.
Right.
Right.
Because even in couplescounseling, like they did some
studies that what, what a lot ofcouples need is just more money.

(01:01:53):
Yeah, that would help theirmarriage more than like right
Counseling, I think if theycould like also drop the
scarcity because like you'resaying because you can have
access to more money But thenthe fear of losing it.
That's the piece Right.
And so like again when we do theinternal work that like no
matter what happens, I know thati'm good in here I'm good on the
inside.
Yeah, and like in in any givenMoment i'm i'm going to be okay.

(01:02:18):
I am okay.
And then, you know, the roadwill bend in some way and we'll
just, we'll navigate it then.
Yeah.

Kat (01:02:26):
So

Val (01:02:26):
I don't know if Rafiq is famous before me or you, I think
whatever, like whateverevolution comes with that could
just be beautiful.
Right.
This is why I love you,Catherine, because I, when I
hear what I go directly to the,to the negative, where I think
he's like, I don't want tobecome an asshole.
Yeah.
And.

(01:02:47):
He does a great job of that onhis own.
He

Kat (01:02:49):
so he left

Val (01:02:50):
two group chats.
Our friends are just trying toshare pictures with us and on
WhatsApp.
It's like Rafiq has left thechat and they're like, well,
what the hell?
I'm just trying to sharepictures of my son's birthday
with you.
You left the chat.
He innately doesn't need toparticipate in niceties, which I
respect.
Now, I, I, I used to be morelike, fuck you both.
I know.

Kat (01:03:10):
I know.

Val (01:03:11):
Oh, I'm so sorry.
Getting one message from someonethat you really love with a
picture with the face of a childhaving a donut on their
birthday.
Oh, sorry.
I know.
We just don't have to doanything we don't want to do,
which is a kind of beautifulfreedom, right?
Okay, but that freedom mightalso ruin your relationship if

(01:03:34):
your, if your name is Rafiq.
Fuck you and your freedom.
That's what I have to say rightnow.
No, I, get it.
Like there is a part of like,yeah, it's great to live in that
freedom.
Right.
There are also consequenceslike.
You know, it's more difficult tokeep up with friendships if
you're always leaving the groupchat, right?

Kat (01:03:53):
Like

Val (01:03:54):
They might just be like, well sorry I'm not gonna share
anything with you anymore.
But then if you don't care, itdoesn't matter.
Yeah, but freedom.
I actually think freedom And Idon't know that we talked about
this in the podcast about ADHD.
We talked about rejection,sensitivity, dysphoria and how
that can come into play.
Right.
There's another one that is kindof

Kat (01:04:11):
a

Val (01:04:11):
trait that comes through with autism and ADHD.
about this?
Persistent.
Demand avoidance PDA.
Yes, but the technical termPathological demand avoidance.
Yes is is the technical termwhich sounds negative.
Yeah, and some advocates changedit or suggested persistent
demand for autonomy.

(01:04:32):
Ooh, persistent demand

Kat (01:04:34):
autonomy.
I knew

Val (01:04:34):
you'd love it, fucker.
It's so much better.
I know, it is.
That's me.
Yes.
Yeah.
And, and just working withclients also on this and, and
how it comes so much of thatfreedom.
If you're into Enneagram, likethe Enneagram 7, they need
freedom or they feel likethey're going to die.
Right.
And that was where my thing islike, well, like just compromise
a little bit with me about thefreedom you want to go see your

(01:04:55):
homeland, which I understand, torun your business now to become
famous.
And I think, did I say on thepodcast where one day he's like,
well, those two just like ourfriends, those two just need to
compromise more.
They'll be happy.
And I'm like, Oh, like us.
And then he's like, well, I'malways breaking the compromise.
So he kind of told on himself.
And I'm like, yeah, you'reright.
And I don't understand if youlove me.

(01:05:15):
As much as I think you do, if wehave as much fun and enjoy our
life as I think we do, why areyou, I actually said this the
other day, do you want to tellpeople we're getting divorced
because you don't want to go toBrazil every six weeks instead
of every three weeks?
So my journey, and I think Ieven said this when we were
recording the podcast, I'm like,life is going pretty well right
now.
Like you're in like the depths,you're in the low vibrations,

(01:05:38):
you're healing.
And I'm like, I actually thinkI'm happy.
The pandemic made him stay homemore.
I'm like, this is good.
And then shortly after westopped the podcast, it was, it
was hard.
Cause I was like, Oh, I'mgetting much clearer about what
exactly it is and what I needand that.
Freedom thing really kicked inwith him or even I've had

(01:05:59):
clients tell me and and I thinkhe's even said it that like Will
you make all the decisions?
Do

Kat (01:06:06):
mm hmm.
Like, motherfucker, do

Val (01:06:08):
you think that I decide you go to you you're away as much as
you are no But if it it's likeif I suggest something if it
doesn't come from within him,yes.
Yes.
Yes, then it's somebody else'sidea Right.
Yeah, and it's just it's justNot true.
Like it's not, I understand his,his perception, but like, if I
just suggest it because I say itbefore you, or because I'm like

(01:06:31):
trying to run the calendar orkeep our friends, you also like
the idea, but if it doesn'toriginate inside of them, if
there's demands you make onthem, then it's like.
It's the, so if you do theGretchen Rubin, the four
tendencies, it's the rebelthing.
Right.
So I've started to say this tohim, your freedom.
I know that your freedom isincredibly important to you and

(01:06:52):
you want it to be able to do andgo whenever.
And that feels like your, yourliveliness is like, I can do
whatever I want whenever I wantit.
But you need to remind yourself,If you want this relationship, I
am giving up a bit of thatfreedom for the great things
that I have here and that I alsodesire.
And I'm like, I have said no tovery little, but I am also

(01:07:14):
getting very clear about what Iwant and what I need.

Kat (01:07:17):
And,

Val (01:07:18):
and you said it, and then one of the, the best frontier
friends said it too, where youwere talking about how you feel
in my biosphere.
Yeah.
Right.
And, and we've talked aboutbiospheres and just people's
energies and just that how youenjoyed how you feel.
Yeah.
And what, how you allow yourselfto be in my biosphere and the
fun we have, basically.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
Layman's terms, I know you havelike a glorious biosphere.

(01:07:40):
Biosphere and like being nearyou and being in relationship
with you and like conversation,the way we're doing the podcast
there is, it sparks somethingbeautiful and I love it.
And I love it.
And of course Rafik loves ittoo.
Yeah, he does.
But this biosphere shouldn't bealone Right.
As much as you know Yeah.
As it is, right.
Yeah.
And I, I enjoy that.
I can't control like when otherpeople are around.

(01:08:04):
Right.
And like the expectations I haveon him as my family, because we
don't have a children or wedon't have a lot of extended
family.
I'm like, you are my family.
And so very interesting, likethat conversation.
And then my other friend waslike, yeah, like you, you're not
meant to be this alone.
Like you, she goes, your energythat you bring is like resort
energy.
That's the best.

(01:08:25):
thing I've ever heard.
That's really true.
It's like you bring resortenergy and then like this friend
was kind of going through somestuff with some friends and I
just kind of, you know, saw thepuzzle and was like, Oh, and
then she was like, Oh my gosh,that helps me so much.
And so it's like resort and it'slike a healing resort energy.
I was just going to say like atherapist who brings resort
energy is.

Kat (01:08:45):
Fucking amazing.
What

Val (01:08:46):
the hell is that?
That's beautiful.
Well done.
I'm writing that down.
Good job, Valerie.
By the way, my 11 year old, isexactly the same way, and it was
such an interesting journey as aparent to be like, This kid will
not do anything until they getindividual buy in that it has to
be their own idea.

(01:09:06):
And I was like, Whoa.
And then later I heard about,you know, the pathological
demand avoidance.
And then tell me again, thepersistent demand for autonomy,
that's my kid.
And then, and then as I heal.
This is the fucking thing, man.
I say it.
I, I see myself in my childrenso much.
It's really, really interesting.
And I'm getting to raise them.

(01:09:28):
They experienced their parentsseparating, but they are not
traumatized children.
They're well adjusted.
They're well loved there.
They're supported with lovingcommunity.
And so I'm getting to see what Icould have maybe been like, like
if, if I didn't have all thetrauma.
Oh, it makes me want to cry justa little bit, like, I'm watching
my child who has, like, all theneurodiversity, all the

(01:09:52):
creativity, all of the, like,the beauty, right?
And she's got her own set oflike challenges, like she feels
anxious about some things andyou know, and I think it's
because there's a lot of demandsput on her at school, right?
And so like, that's been one ofthe arguments with her, her
other parent and I about like,how much time can she just stay
home to reset because she needsto reset and she's communicating

(01:10:14):
her needs to me and I need herto know that like, when you say
your need to me.
It is fucking heard.
I'm not going to be like, shovethat shit down, kid.
Right.
Cause I experienced that.
Right.
And so it's just so interestingthat we, I'm doing the work as
an adult to reparent myself theway I'm reparenting my own
beautiful children.

(01:10:35):
Right.
Yeah.
Giving them.
Yeah, autonomy and teaching themlike to trust themselves, right?
I said that in the last podcastlike the main thing I need them
to know is that you're the bossof you fuckers Yeah, and that
means they're allowed to say noto me, right?
Yeah, it's really interestingAnd so it's interesting as you

(01:10:55):
navigate your relationship withRafiq where you're like how much
give and take exists It's whenwe want to have close, intimate,
personal relationship withsomeone whose desire for
autonomy requires yeah, a littlebit of compromise, a little bit
of like, you know.
Let's like your autonomy islike, I don't want to be
completely autonomous.

(01:11:18):
My truth is that I needcommunity.
I've got resort energy.
Let's go.
You know?
Yeah.
But I like my own family oforigin stuff, my own grief, the
grief of like my father dyingyoung the grief of just some
dysfunction or scar scarcity in,in, in extended family.
Yeah.
Oh, right.
Yeah.
Like I really did.
I was like, I want morecloseness.

(01:11:39):
Like I didn't have the 15cousins and the holidays being
bursting.
Like if my house was alwaysbursting at the seams, I would
be very happy.
Right.
So the church, like those yearsat the church were so good and
cause my house was alwaysbursting at the seams.
Right.
There's also like, there's alsosome spaciousness in my life
because, because of how it is,right?

(01:12:01):
And I can get to take care of mybody, which has some
difficulties.
But there's some family stuff, Ithink for him too, you know but
I guess just being more realabout what I think I need and
then not being afraid of thatoutcome.
Cause I've said to him veryclearly, if that is what you
need, if you really need that,then you need to go and do that.
But there's a limit of like whatI think.

(01:12:23):
I can handle as far as like,yeah, go do your thing.
Right.
And, and, and figuring it out.
And when you were like, just alittle bit of compromise, I was
just like, motherfucker, I havebeen compromising my ass off.
And it's like, well, yeah, and

Kat (01:12:35):
it's like, yeah.
And that's, and

Val (01:12:36):
that's been your journey, right?
Like, that's the thing again,like, again, we're fucking
conditioned as fem people in theworld.
Right.
And then.
It takes some time for ussometimes to get our voice loud
enough so that we're being heardby the people that need to
fucking hear us and we're goodat reading people's fucking mind
and then you're like, I'm notdoing this shit anymore, right?
Yeah.
Oh my God.
I don't.
So a lot of my interpersonalrelationships have have just

(01:13:00):
gone away.
And so I have a much tighternucleus of people and any new
relationships that I engage in,I just cannot bear to fuck with
someone who is not a self awareenough to say, this is what I
need.
This is what I want and to notbe easily offended.
Right.
And then the other thing that Inoticed is that I.
In relationship with people, Ichampion them centering

(01:13:23):
themselves.
So it's the like, Hey, do youwant to do this with me?
And I really want to do a thingwith them.
And they're like, no, thatdoesn't feel good in my body.
I'm going to go do this.
And I'm like, Oh my God, goodjob centering you.
Right.
It's sincere.
And then I can handle my littledisappointment that the plan
didn't go the way I wanted.
Right.
But like, if people don't havethat fucking skill set, no,
thank you.
I am done reading minds.

(01:13:44):
I was good at it, Val.
Yeah.
I don't want to do that anymore.
Yeah.
I'm not doing all that fuckingemotional labor.
No.
Be a fucking grown up.
Go to therapy.
Repair yourself.
Take some fucking mushrooms.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So where I think it gets trickyis when.
You're already in that andyou've been the life together
and someone's

Kat (01:14:03):
right.

Val (01:14:03):
I said, I said the big joke on the podcast, you could find
the episode if you're new islike how he says, like, he's
just doing enough.
He's not changing for himselfbecause he's like, I want to
become a higher, you know, it'sbecause I'm saying, Hey, you're
hurting me.
Yes.
I think this needs to, so he'sjust doing enough.
And then the big joke is like,he's like, well, just enough is
like a C.

(01:14:23):
Why would I try harder fromgetting a C.
Right.
But I think that there was apart of me that still was back
to like the should energy, theshould energy of like, should I
be in this relationship?
Yeah.
Because yeah.
See all the memes tell tellingmy clients if they're dating
someone like, Hey, this is whatyou look for.
But, but I'm already in this.

(01:14:43):
I mean, I could leave thattriggers a whole bunch of money
stuff.
Right.
Because I've also allowedmyself.
I Think I was brought up in avery independent, a little bit
of scarcity kind of mode oflike, I'm going to take care of
myself I'm not going to rely onanyone else.
But I have allowed myself to, tobe gentle and to work a little
bit less so that the, my body,right.

(01:15:05):
But then, but then that scarcityor that fear, and, I guess I do
see growth in that.
Well, then if there's a fearthat I'm going to be on my own,
then that's it.
I'm going to be hyperindependent.
Like I'm going to go out thereand just like work super hard to
like make this whole big thingwhen I could just still stay in
the, in the rest that I havehere.
Right.
Yeah.

(01:15:25):
And just kind of, you know, havethis reactionary thing because
same like you, like having myown private practice, I, I knew
that I couldn't.
Enter the space of being soafraid of not having enough
clients.
I just couldn't go there becauseI didn't feel good in my body.
And maybe I just see itdifferently where I'm like I

(01:15:46):
only do what I want to do Ithink I'm like I can't go there
because that doesn't feel good,right?
So also I'm not going back tolike well, fuck it, you know I'm
just gonna get hyper independentin case that I have to be out.
Oh, right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, right I'm still staying inthis in this The rest that I
have and yes manageable, but italmost feels like oh like it

(01:16:07):
depended on someone.
I allowed someone to take careof me in a way like right there
were years As the business wascoming and going that my salary
was paying my bills.
Unknowns are, again, I don'tknow if it's the human brain or
if it's the culture or acombination of both, but our
human brains love to freak outabout unknowns.
And what I have noticed is thatwhen we create a safe space

(01:16:30):
inside, we were like, well, theworld can be loving because I am
loving.
Right?
And we experience realitythrough the sieve of our own
perception.
So in this way, we are God like,right?
Everything that passes throughmy awareness is going through my
perception.
I am experiencing it.

(01:16:51):
And so the way I experience theworld, I actually do have
control over, right?
We have more control when weheal the trauma, we're not run
by programs, right?
And so Transcribed by So we, wesort of, again, it's like the
distress tolerance, but like youcan sort of flip it to mean this
other thing of like, I'm, it'sjust like the money, my ability

(01:17:12):
to Even conceive of holdingmoney of having wealth like I
have to like increase mycapacity Right, and so we can
increase our capacity to believethat the unknown could be
lovely.
Mm hmm, right?
Yeah, again, that is it takespractice.
It is a practice.
It's a spiritual practice.
Yeah of like I'm going to, youhave to be nice to yourself on

(01:17:35):
the inside.
You have to redirect scarcitythoughts.
You have to redirect shoulds,right?
And sometimes you give, you healthem, you give them compassion.
Sometimes the redirect is, Oh, Ijust don't want that anymore.
And it can just be gone.
Like it's, it can be verydifferent nuance to you and your
story and your makeup.
And you know, so it's so funnythat you say that because I feel

(01:17:56):
like last year's podcast, thatwas one of your big themes was.
Like making a home, a piece, asafe home inside myself, right?
Yeah.
With myself.
Yeah.
And of course, you know, I'mlike, whatever, cat.
I mean, in the most loving way,but it's like, yeah, yeah, sure,
cat.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I think that, and again,it's a longer journey to

(01:18:17):
explain, but I think I wasrealizing like I was feeling
abandoned, maybe isn't the rightword, but like left or alone,
not liking these feelings.
And I was like, well, If Idecided to, you know, leave my
relationship, I was going to bealone.
And I, I was starting to put,again, we can ask people to do
their own work and also doingour own work.
Right.
So realizing like, Oh, there'ssome of the.

(01:18:39):
I feel like you're my family andyou're leaving me and, and
that's, that, that doesn't feel,that doesn't feel right.
But I was like, well, but Istill feel like, cause sometimes
when I'm, when I'm home too longby myself, and of course I'm
like seeing people and pick upalso great about that and I have
my work, but there's something Ireally don't like about being
alone.
Yeah.
And I think that I realized, oh,that your, your phrase came to

(01:19:02):
me, like, no matter what I wantto feel safe and at home.
It's just with myself, right?
Even with the recollection of,or the realization of like, oh,
why this is upsetting is becauseI feel like.

Kat (01:19:16):
you know,

Val (01:19:17):
He's my family and then I'm being left by my family and
that's where a breakdown islike, okay, we've got to fix
that.
But then there's somethingdeeper where it's like, okay,
I'm not, I'm not promised anyfamily anywhere.
Right.
And so, so that like feeling athome and safe and like I'm okay
just on my own.

(01:19:37):
I felt like that's like my nextwork to do in that in that area.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So at the moment, compromisesare still going, so that feels
good.
Yeah.
But the other thing about moneywell, updates, I know that I
said that One of the reasons whyI didn't want to do the podcast
so frequently was because it wassupposed to be a marketing tool

(01:19:59):
for my business.
And I was like, I really needcat more time with my business
cat.
Don't you understand?
Cat?
I'm having a hard time gainingtraction cat.
And You know, I was managing anAirbnb property that we had and
we, we sold that and I didn'trealize how much that was
dysregulating my nervous systemevery morning, waking up what
new level of hell and you know,was, was, what did I have to

(01:20:20):
deal with or what I shouldn'tsay that loosely, but like it
was just.
The unknown of like what couldhappen and what could go wrong
is it was just it madehypervigilance in your mind all
the time all the time and whileit wasn't a lot of Me time or it
wasn't difficult.
It was difficult my nervoussystem So just kind of allowing

(01:20:43):
myself to get some time off fromthat.
I took more time, which I'velearned from you I took more
time than I thought like atfirst and then I was like, okay,
I am not making headway withexpanding, like some of the
things that I want to do in mybusiness.
I'm just going to let it be fora little while and if probably

(01:21:04):
you weren't my friend, Iprobably would not ever do that.
Right.
Like that wouldn't be okay.
So thank you for that.
And I'm just like, I don't know,there's just something inside of
me that's like, I do not want todo this in this way.
So when you were talking aboutlike kind of finding, finding
ways to make things feel Easy orshiny or, or I'm like, maybe,
maybe you and I, maybe you canhelp me to kind of find the path

(01:21:27):
forward.
Cause I still come back to, westill want to, I still want to
do good in the world and helpwomen on this journey.
But I guess I need a differentway to do it because the way
that's kind of laid out.
I am, I'm resisting.
Yeah.
And some of it some of it mightbe perimenopause, which I'll
tease that.
That's, that is a, a subjectthat is not talked about enough

(01:21:49):
and is just starting to gettalked about more and more.
Sure.
Yeah.
Just like, oh, I was gonna sayin my journey to money in the
churches that, that I was a partof later on, it was okay to have
money.
It was okay.
Right.
Yeah, it was.
Now that whole stream is gettinginto big trouble with Hillsong
and all of that like, yeah,expense account, you know,
bullshits and preachers withsneakers and you know, all of

(01:22:12):
that.
But in trouble that's also madeup right some people who are
still in scarcity they don'tlike when other people have
access to money.
It feels like a reason for us tofight like what I had to do was
like cancel out all my biasesabout people with wealth.
It's really interesting.
I'm not mad at anybody who's gotTons of money.
Yeah.
I think we're, I think where theproblem is, it's like the

(01:22:32):
oppression where it's like,yeah.
You know, you're, God told methat I need a new private jet,
or like, yes, oppression andmanipulation.
That's never, never cool, butyeah.
Never paying volunteers.
Right.
And then, and then staff isgetting chauffeur around town
and Exactly.
People are like literallyburning out because they've
Right.
God told them that they need topay, you know work for free.

(01:22:52):
Yeah.
So I think, I think that's thething, but yeah.
Right.
Like sure.
You can be a pastor and youdon't have to be this destitute
or take a vow of poverty.
Right.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
So, so that's where that's kindof my updates.
And then also that I feel likeit weaved perfectly into like
our discussions about money and,and trying to do it in a way

(01:23:15):
that does feel.
More spacious.
Yeah, and less of the harmfulhustle.
Well, that's the interestingthing, too When we when we start
to do the work to get in touchwith what we really want and
again in my story I did not knowRight because I turn as a child
In order to survive I went numbI just turned off and then the

(01:23:39):
first thing that lit me up wasChristianity Specifically the
Pentecostals right and it turnsout it's so funny now like I'm
into all this metaphysical shit,right?
I have had decades.
It was the, it was the pipeline.
Here were the pipeline.
It's the pipeline.
It was decades of like, likeplaying in metaphysical spaces.
Right.
And the culture.

(01:24:00):
Mm of like personal prophecy.
Mm-hmm.
of supernatural healing.
Mm-hmm.
speaking in tongues.
All of that manifestations.
All kinds of manifestations.
Oh yeah.
All of that.
And so my work now has beenlike, like allowing the biases
that were really built into thattoo, about anything that was
different.
Mm-hmm.
for those.
to for me to, you know, let themgo away.
One by one as they come up, Irecognize them and I'm like,

(01:24:21):
okay, I don't want that beliefanymore.
So I just let it go.
Right.
For beliefs to be water insteadof this like rock thing.
Isn't that interesting?
Yeah.
I only pick a belief that servesme, right?
That's so fun and weird, right?
That's very contrary to stuff,you know, once upon a time.
So Val, I want to ask you, like,would you tell me about the
pleasure of being on your boat?

(01:24:42):
Okay.
Well, okay.
There's, there's two differentparts of it.
Being by the water, I mean, andI think that there's a little
bit of shyness about privilege,right?
I think That there's stillsomething about and you and I
actually, you've talked to meabout this too.
It's like, well, how does younot enjoying what you have
serving other people?

(01:25:03):
Right?
So, so that's a great conceptfor my brain.
I love it when other peopledrive the boat because then I
can just be free to enjoy it.
The sun.
Yeah.
The water we went out the othernight and there was, it was 85
degrees and the sun was settingand the water was just rippling
with different stripes of purpleand pink and blue.

(01:25:24):
And we're used to this, the skybeing kind of striped, but the
water.
It was just so amazing.
And actually that day I wasdriving the boat, but it also
gives me some autonomy because Ican't.
So then, cause if he happened tobe gone for this whole heat
wave, so I meant no taking outthe boat.
And so it's kind of a little bitof like, how can I still have

(01:25:46):
my.
Resort energy and, and, and getmy water therapy when he's not
here.
So it was empowering.
I think the fear, I have a lotless anxiety than when we first
moved here.
I was very anxious on the waterwith like, you know, the damage
that could be done and all thesethings.
Sure.
So that, that is simultaneouslygiving, and I, I think I, it was

(01:26:07):
like the same energy that makesme want to.
Kind of conquer pickleball andget better and better and better
is the same energy of like, Hey,I'm going to conquer like my
fear of driving this boat.
I love that.
Yeah, I'm trying to.
Yeah.
Well, when we follow our, likeour highest enthusiasm or
something, it feels shiny.
Or we only do what we want.
Like, sometimes that can be likeskewed in this idea of like it

(01:26:28):
sounds passive or like it's nothard.
But to do things that are hardis fun.
As long as it's fun, the hardthing is fun.
Does that make sense?
Right?
To get good at pickleball, youhave to train, but it's fun,
it's energizing.
Right, and any montage from anylike sports one is like them
falling over, like hitting theirhead or doing all that.

(01:26:49):
So I did have that momentbecause I was about to be like,
oh, fuck this, and I'm like, no,you take the wheel.
But I was like, nope, this isthat like uncomfortable part.
It's the, the learning curvegrowth, the growth learning.
Yeah.
Can

Kat (01:27:03):
yeah.

Val (01:27:04):
I tell you one thing before we, before we, we end ourselves
for today, what I was wanted tobring up for the pleasure part
was I've started to talk toespecially clients about the
concept of like vitality versushealth.
Oh, I love that.
That's way better.
Yeah.
Like, right.
Like, because I talked to a lotof them about self care and

(01:27:25):
exercise, right?
As the femme people, we'vereally been told that like
exercise is a way to controlyour body.
So not getting bigger.
Right.
And so I always say like thebest moment is when you're doing
it for another reason.
And it's like for your mentalhealth, you're like, Oh my gosh,
I'm less anxious after I tookthat walk or whatever.
And but health is also tricky.
Right.
It's tricky because.

(01:27:47):
And some of the like right someof the numbers are made up like
so, you know Like that's allmade up to like what number is
high this or high that right?
What number is where you'recalled this and we don't really
have full control over our ourhealth like our genetics Like,
you know We don't have fullcontrol of our health, but we

(01:28:08):
can do things.
Right.
So it's like, do the habits thatfeel good.
And I'm like, what about if weare doing things that make us
feel like get that vitality,that vivaciousness.
What's really funny is all thesewords start with V vibrancy,

Kat (01:28:21):
Vibrancy

Val (01:28:21):
vitality.
Well, vivaciousness, I guess theother, you're so vivacious, Val,
that's what you're doing on thepickleball court being
vivacious.
Well, what's really funny isthat when I looked up
vivaciousness or vivacity, Iguess is the correct term.
It said, especially for women,okay, go fuck yourself
attractively lively andanimated.

(01:28:44):
Is that

Kat (01:28:44):
that

Val (01:28:44):
like wild that it said that, but all of these words
like vitality, health, feelingof aliveness, and you said it
earlier in the podcast, that'swhy I wanted to include it like
being energetic, lively,spiritual dynamism.
So what if we did the thingsthat made us feel vibrant,
vivacious?

(01:29:04):
That feeling of vitality and thehealth will will it should come
along and some of the things wejust don't have control over But
what if we focus on like I wantto feel healthy I want to feel
vibrant, vivacious and what arethose things?
Is it playing more games?
Is it like flirting?
Is it the clothes you wear?
Is it being in a certain placeor neighborhood or doing certain

(01:29:27):
things?
Yeah.
Learning a new, I mean,anything.
So that's the thing.
Like if we reframe the story oflike, Oh, my body doesn't work
in these ways.
That story is limiting,contracting, right?
But if you're like, Ooh.
Based on what I am able to do,what is the thing I want to do?
What makes me feel shiny andalive?
And again, because of ourprogramming and the culture we
live in, sometimes it takes alittle work to start to answer

(01:29:47):
those questions.
So you start to do it withsmaller things.
Like you start to do it withlike, what kind of food do I
want to eat?
Right.
Or you like practice saying no.
When you feel in your body,there's like an invitation to do

Kat (01:29:58):
thing

Val (01:29:59):
or someone's asked you to do a thing.
And then instead of just beinglike.
Yes, you're like, let me feelinto my body and then ask myself
that question and then tell youthe honest answer.
Right?
That's such a big difference.
Yeah, it is.
But it starts to, like, freedom,like, creates this, these
fractals, like, like water,right?

(01:30:21):
It, like, it pushes out furtherand further and further, right?
And then the more free you and Iget, Val, there's, there's more
freedom in the whole fuckingworld, right?
Yeah.
And then, you know, there'sRafiq.
He's already fucking free.
He really is.
So doing what makes us feelalive.
Yeah.
Is why we are continuing thispodcast.
Yes.
Right.

(01:30:41):
Yeah.
We wanted to share that today,didn't we?
So we are officially going to beproducing a season two for you
all.
We're very excited.
And probably gonna do about oncea month is what feels good to us
right now.
And we decided we, it's ourmoney episode and we're like,
Hey, we are going to invite you,our wonderful listeners to
support the show.
We're going to have a link inthe show notes.

(01:31:02):
It's called buymeacupofcoffee.
com.
And so you guys can contributeto the overhead costs of making
this content for you all.
We're just doing it as a laborof love right now, but then
we're like, Hey.
Fuckers, we should get paid.

Kat (01:31:15):
I'm not

Val (01:31:15):
I'm not afraid of money anymore.
Like bring me some fuckingmoney.
Share it all this gold for free.

Kat (01:31:20):
So you feel

Val (01:31:21):
like it feels shiny to you to like chip in and buy us a
coffee.
You want to pay off my car?

Kat (01:31:26):
You can do that.

Val (01:31:27):
I would love it.
So yeah, the invitation isthere.
And the, yeah, like to, to sendyour resources in a way that
like acknowledges that you'vehad some benefit from our.
Delightful conversations arevivacious.
Do you feel like you're having acup of coffee with us?
Yeah Totally.
Oh, well, that seems like agreat place to end for today.
Yay.
Thank you Val.

(01:31:47):
Thank you.
I love you so much I love youuntil next time