November 1, 2022 • 42 mins
Kat and Val’s season finale! Obnoxiously committed to practicing what they preach, our co hosts get even more vulnerable as they discuss and model the practices of centering ourselves in our interpersonal relationships. How doing so can feel tender and unpleasant, and how to allow room for unexpected emotions when they arise. Thank you to everyone who has been on this journey. If you’d like updates on season two or future bonus episodes please subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.
*The information in this podcast is for entertainment purposes only*
Find us on Instagram:
Kat and Val Podcast
Val's offerings:
So This is Love Club
Reset Yourself for Love Program
Instagram So This is Love Club
Kat's offerings:
Fat Liberation Art -Fat Mystic Etsy Shop
Instagram Fat_Mystic_Art
Additional resources/definitions referenced in most episodes:
16 personalities quiz
Love languages quiz
Apology language quiz
Enneagram quiz
Enneagram
The Four Tendencies
Myers Briggs Personality Profiles
Highly Sensitive People (HSP)
Adrienne Maree Brown
Pleasure Activism; The Politics of Feeling Good
Come as You Are: The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life
Book by Emily Nagoski
Attached - Book by Amir Levine and Rachel S. F. Heller
Understanding Dopamine: Love Hormones And The Brain
Fat Liberation Movement
Lipedema
Exvangelical/deconstructing from Christianity
ADHD
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Val (00:05):
You're listening to three questions with Katten, Val I'm
Kat and I'm bow.
We've been friends for over 20years.
Thousands of therapists and catsand artists.
We're both great talkers.
And we're both XFN delicacy whoused to pastor gay.
Now we both have chronicillnesses.
We think we're fuckinghilarious.
Kat (00:33):
Yay Cat Val are back after several weeks off.
And if you are a longtimelistener, you will find that
this episode is a bit differentthan our normal episodes.
We decided to like lift the veila little bit and let you see
what our dynamic looks like whenwe're not being excessively
charming and brilliant.
(00:54):
during the podcast.
And, yeah, we, we noticed thatwe had something to kind of like
work through and so we thoughtit would be maybe cool and
beneficial.
And transparent of us to likelet you all see that.
And so that's what you're infor.
This is our season one finaleand thank you so much for being
on this journey with us.
Here we go, Cat, and be.
(01:15):
Hello,
Val (01:17):
Cat, is that you?
Is it really?
You
Kat (01:20):
Hello, friend.
I haven't seen in a very long
Val (01:23):
long time.
I know, and even longer since welast Podcasted.
Kat (01:28):
Hello.
Welcome listeners.
We're so happy that you'reenjoying us.
Val (01:33):
Did you miss us?
Come on.
Tell the truth.
Tell the truth.
Kat (01:36):
I missed us.
Val (01:38):
I missed us.
And yeah, What have we beendoing?
What have you been
Kat (01:46):
No.
you have to go first.
Come on Val.
You've got
Val (01:49):
Okay, Well our break, Our break all started cuz I was
going to Europe my first timesince the pandemic.
And first it was Amsterdam,
Kat (01:57):
which you are such a fancy bitch.
Val (01:59):
Well, and Amsterdam feels like an old friend cause I've
been there a
Kat (02:02):
Oh,
Val (02:02):
Okay And one of ra fe's business partners.
Kat (02:04):
What makes it like an old friend?
That's
Val (02:07):
Well, cuz I've been there so much and I was feeling
anxious about like the sh likeit was, it was a very last
minute trip.
And then I get, like, I get, Iwanna like, like plan new places
and like see everything.
But it was like, no, it's justlike visiting an old friend.
Like I've been there so manytimes.
I could just like go and Ohyeah, I know where everything
Kat (02:26):
Yeah.
That's
Val (02:26):
and it's so And then we stayed with Rufus business his
family for a day, and I got likea, I I, I got a haircut kind of
against my will
Kat (02:37):
That was funny.
You showed me pictures, which
Val (02:39):
really funny.
There was a small cat
Kat (02:41):
involved.
Val (02:41):
And and it was funny cuz I wouldn't let you cut my hair,
but then this stranger, I kindof was like, All right, I'm
taking a gamble, but she's ahairdresser.
So
Kat (02:48):
There's a language barrier too, right?
Val (02:50):
yes.
So I always feel bad like sayingno to someone in another
language cuz then they might.
I might not do a good jobletting them down easily.
So anyway, it was lovely.
And then I went to Florencewhere I, I'd never been to
Florence before and met one ofmy best friends, Rai's twin, a
Peacock twin and her husband cuzthey they were there for
(03:10):
business.
And had an amazing time inFlorence and I thought one day
we were in like Tuscany and I,I, my, my great idea for like a
funny t-shirt was like I gotbaked under the
Kat (03:24):
T
Val (03:25):
Sun
Kat (03:27):
Yay.
Val (03:27):
we just had Cappuccinos and Ella's princes and massages and
maybe some, you know deliciousgummies.
And then did it all, took a napand did it all again.
Kat (03:39):
Oh my gosh.
Val (03:39):
So that was, that was just, it was so fun, you know, just
being in a new place and justexperiencing.
Kat (03:48):
Being high in a new
Val (03:49):
plane,
Kat (03:50):
living your best life.
I love it.
I love it.
Val (03:52):
It was so good.
And to be there with friends,meeting friends in different
countries
Kat (03:56):
is like
Val (03:57):
pretty awesome thing to do.
So we did that.
And then also, I, I don't thinkwe talked about this last year,
but I went on the second annual.
Las Vegas pickleball.
Ch getaway
Kat (04:10):
Yay
Val (04:12):
with the local pickleball
Kat (04:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Val (04:14):
Last year I think there was like 50 people that went, and
this year there was like 80, Ithink.
Kat (04:19):
Yeah.
Pickleball is taken off.
I mean, everyone's super intoit.
And so you go and you travel forlike a competition, right?
Val (04:26):
Well, what's funny is like, it's just, yeah, there is like a
little tournament, but it's likesomeone's like, So let me get
this straight.
Yeah.
You went to Vegas to playpickleball with the same people
that you play pickleball here.
all day you play pickleball andthe next day you played
pickleball and the next day youplayed pickleball.
Mm-hmm.
I'm like, yeah, pretty much
Kat (04:42):
So like you just get on an airplane, stay in a hotel to
just play a ball all day, everyday with the same people from
Val (04:48):
Well, okay.
And then some of the, like the,the fun parts of Vegas, like we
went and saw a show which again,like the creativity, like
someone so, Oh.
me like, I'm like, Well, why arethings going well?
She's like, I'm expelling my
Kat (05:03):
Mm.
Val (05:04):
In ways I hadn't been before.
And I'm like, No, we need to dothat.
Like, and
Kat (05:09):
Wait, who is saying that too?
Val (05:10):
A client was telling me like, I was asked, she's like,
Oh, things are great.
I'm like, Tell me why things aregreat.
Kat (05:15):
she's
Val (05:16):
I have outlets to expel my It's so important, dear friends
and listeners.
if you're feeling like you're ina little rut, just not feeling
yourself, need a littledopamine, pick me up, Get in
contact with your creativity, orgo watch someone else's, or turn
(05:38):
on Project Runway or like IronChef or something where someone
is being creative or that glassblowing one that everyone is
excited about.
I, I, I haven't gotten into thatone.
I gotta pace myself, but I justrealized, Going and seeing
creativity is just, I, it makes
Kat (05:55):
it all.
Yeah.
You know, the voice does thatfor me too.
The voice will do that cuz likepeople are just like belting it
out and they're like
Val (06:00):
making stuff their own Yes.
Yeah.
they
Kat (06:03):
collaborate right when they're doing the battles.
So they have to, they'vecombined their creativity and
their giftings and theirtalents.
It's cool.
It really, I love that
Val (06:10):
So important.
Important stuff.
Kat (06:12):
Yeah.
Val (06:13):
And Yeah.
You know, good food and yeah,there's a hotel there that has
like 16 quarts and so you stayand it's a rooftop with a pool
next to it and like frozen, likedri machines.
So in the tournament as I'mlike, How'd you do?
I'm like, well, in the last one,my, my partner was, was drugs We
(06:35):
didn't do too well.
like, can we get that onestricken from the
Kat (06:39):
directly Oh
Val (06:39):
So you know, it, it, and then, yeah, you.
But it's such an addictivesport.
It's like, yeah, let's justplay.
And so we had a great time, butit was the second annual, the
first time.
I gotta tell you the story.
Cause this never made it on thepodcast.
The first time we had we had, wehadn't met everyone and Rafi had
hurt, my husband had hurt hisfoot, so not everyone knew him.
And he couldn't play.
So I'm like, Go put your speedon and go to the pool.
(07:01):
Like, just do what you gotta do.
Just be yourself, right?
Like, I know you don't knowthese people.
Just go be yourself.
So we're, we're next to it, likeplaying pickleball and, and like
the punchline is that there wereguys from the trip trying to
protect me from my own husbandwhen he approached me in his
speedo.
Kat (07:18):
they see is this tall man in a Speedo walking up to you
being really familiar.
Saing
Val (07:23):
up.
Yeah.
Like talking to me and, and twodifferent people later came up
to me and were like, You know, Ididn't know Rafi was your
husband, so I saw this guycoming up to you in a Speedo and
like, what is he doing?
Like, do I need to go protecther?
And I was like, That'shilarious.
Yes.
On a regular basis, peopletrying to protect me from my own
husband.
But then later on we werehanging out with this guy and
(07:43):
these, and these women were.
Visibly thirsting for him.
like, Like
Kat (07:49):
was he still in the Speedo?
Val (07:51):
No, this is another guy.
Okay.
Yeah, it wasn't my husband.
This is a guy and he has thislike,
Kat (07:55):
Oh.
Val (07:56):
Like this amazing, like, like white, like qu hair.
Like it's, it's, it's, it's,it's very, you know, it's, it's
a nice look, right?
So he's out there and he's all,he's, he's just listening to
this concert, but I'm watchingthese women like, like, like, I
mean, it couldn't have been,they were just staring, thirsty,
thirsty.
Gaze is at him, right?
(08:17):
Throwing him at him and henotices, he's listening to, to
the, to the thing.
And then it was funny cuz I waslike, Do I need to save him
Kat (08:24):
him Right.
Val (08:25):
from them?
I'm like, No, we're all grownadults.
And so then this year everyoneknew Rafi and they're like,
Ahaha, But then this friend AnneRafi went out just to hear the
same, like, I mean, it'seighties hair, ba metal bands.
I was like, No, thank you.
Like, have a great time.
Right.
So they're out on like old, thisis old Vegas where and there's
(08:47):
these bands and so I guess thiswoman came up to our friend.
And said something and thenwalked away and they're like,
Oh, you know what, what did thatwoman say?
What'd she want?
Yeah.
Oh, she, she was said she waslooking for a good time.
Was I looking for a good time?
I'm like, Oh, they're trying topick up on our friend again.
So I guess Rafi went, went backout again later by himself.
(09:09):
And then he's like, Man, thesame woman came up to me.
And then she goes, Are youlooking for a good time?
You want a good time?
And he's like I'm watching theconcert.
And then she
Kat (09:18):
she goes, she
Val (09:19):
Well, do you know I'm expensive?
And then he goes, Well, I don'tknow that, but I'm cheap
Kat (09:27):
and
Val (09:27):
she walked away.
Kat (09:32):
That's super funny.
Val (09:33):
job.
ra.
I love it.
He's like, Well, I don't know.
I don't know if you'reexpensive, but you gotta know
I'm cheap.
Ugh.
So we've been, you know, having,having some fun out here.
Kat (09:44):
Yeah.
Val (09:45):
Other update is, I was so excited to tell you this morning
that my fiddle leaf fig, whichI'm just desperately trying to
keep alive,
Kat (09:52):
Yeah.
This cool big plant.
Yeah.
It's like a tree in your livingroom.
Yeah.
Val (09:55):
Yeah.
It has a mushroom
Kat (09:56):
Yes.
Val (09:58):
so we.
Kat (10:02):
the question,
Val (10:02):
I mean, I don't know how it got there.
I even put, I haven't put newsoil in it, like since I got it,
Kat (10:08):
That's amazing.
Val (10:09):
been outside, so I don't know how this mushroom creeped
in, but it's there.
So
Kat (10:14):
I love that.
It's named after me.
That makes me super happy.
That's funny.
I did like a big mushroom tripthis weekend.
Oh yeah.
It was pretty cool.
I'll tell you more about itlater, but like it was, Yeah.
And I, I, I, I think once upon atime I might have felt some
discomfort with mushrooms bebeing associated with me.
(10:34):
Like you see a mushroom, likeI'm the first person you think
of, but now I'm like leaning in.
I'm like, Holy shit.
Mushrooms are fucking amazing.
Yeah.
I'm a big fan.
Val (10:43):
and you sent me a text this weekend that was like a teller
feet that you guys should cancelyour plan so I could chaperone
you two taking mushroomstogether.
And I just wrote back, No
Kat (10:57):
I know we had talked about getting together on Saturday or
Sunday and then I was like,Yeah, and then you guys can do
mushrooms after my gosh.
Val (11:08):
what have you been up to?
Kat (11:10):
Oh, I've been up to, not very much.
It's interesting, so a fewepisodes ago, We talked about
how, I think it was thevulnerability episode, we talked
about how some of ourdiscussions about family of
origin stuff, right?
Because we did an episode aboutfamily ties and and it just sort
of was like a catalyst of likesome deeper healing and and then
(11:31):
I thought, I thought we had likediscovered a new pocket of pain.
Val (11:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I felt very proud of myself thatI coined
Kat (11:38):
it.
Oh yeah.
And I was like, Yes, A pocket.
It's a pocket.
Val (11:41):
I've done so much healing before.
I
Kat (11:42):
I know.
And then you left town and itturned out it was like a chasm.
Like all of my deepest innerturmoil, like my preverbal
trauma.
Oh, and I'm making a little bitlight of it, but like I, I
really decided to let go of anyresistance I had to this being
like a real season, you know?
(12:03):
And so I started telling peoplelike, Oh, it feels like I'm
like, hermiting, I think I'm ina hermiting And that's just
really true.
So like, like people are like,Oh, what are you doing this
weekend?
I'm like, I do not have plansLike, and so I just you know, I
get to be present with my kidsduring the week, and so that's,
Social interaction plus, youknow, I have a roommate you
know, I get to see her prettyregular.
And but I just, I need a lot oftime still and it's real tender
(12:27):
and it's also okay, but I'mdoing a lot of deep work.
And so you're out there likeliving your best life, like, on
like, so many like, like, likeadventures and like playing.
Being in the world that I'mlike, I am alone.
So very alone.
And
Val (12:48):
if anyone's listening, right, I mean for everyone who's
listening right now, you've seenthe title, which Ka won to say,
Call Our First Fight.
And I don't know if that'sactually the title we, you know,
in post protection and we mightchange it, but I think that
like, I just wanna say we'll getto that and maybe some of that
is, was pressing on, some of itwas pressing on some of those
(13:10):
wounds or.
Kat (13:11):
Yeah.
Val (13:12):
Yeah,
Kat (13:13):
Because you came home from Europe.
Okay.
Yeah.
Val (13:16):
your story.
Go ahead.
Kat (13:18):
You came home from Europe.
Yes.
And broke up with me.
Yeah.
and I came over and I thought wewere gonna record that day, and
then instead you're like, Mm.
I need a break.
And then Rafi came downstairsand he said, Oh, hi Kat.
And I was like, Hi.
And he's like, How are you?
And I was like Val just broke upwith me, And he was like, Me
(13:41):
too.
Val (13:44):
man.
His comedic timing is pretty
Kat (13:46):
good too.
Cause he's like
Val (13:48):
yeah, she tried to do that to me too.
Yep.
Yep.
Join the club.
Yep.
Okay.
You doing all right?
All right.
it was probably the tensionbreaker that we all needed.
Kat (13:56):
It was funny.
Val (13:57):
Actually.
He interrupted a really He, hedoesn't check, he doesn't read
the room before he startstalking.
And so I think I, I think Iremember we.
Deep in this, like, you know,deep and meaningful.
He's like, Hey, Ka, how are you?
And you're like Val's breakingup me right now.
Excuse me.
He's like, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,it's right.
She said, It's me too we all hada good laugh,
Kat (14:18):
It was really helpful.
Val (14:19):
I mean, I'm gonna tell my side of it after the break, I
think.
Yeah.
Kat (14:22):
Yeah.
Enjoy our commercials.
Val (14:24):
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Kat (14:43):
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Val (14:43):
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Val (15:21):
Okay.
Kat (15:21):
Yes.
So let me have it,
Val (15:24):
I.
I'm not gonna dispute yourtimeline.
And actually what happened cuzyou were like, Hey Val, what are
we gonna talk about today?
And I was kind of like, Well Ithink I've got something else to
talk about first.
And I was like, Bitch, didn't Isay to you, we need to talk
about
Kat (15:42):
our
Val (15:43):
of beforehand.
So here's your surprise.
That is actually what happened.
But I think at the same time,Well, you wanna tell her or do
you want me to tell it?
Kat (15:53):
Well, so here's, here's, let's, let's paint a picture
this way.
ahead.
So you and I are two people thatare extremely emotionally
intelligent.
We are continuing to do the workof centering ourselves and our
own lives.
Yes.
We're pretty good at like,owning our stuff and like
communicating it clearly ourwants, needs and desires.
And even with all of thesethings, you are a separate
(16:14):
person than me, right?
You have your own.
You know, needs and expectationsand things.
And so us centering ourselvescreated a, not an an angry or
mean conflict, but an actuallike conflict where we're like,
Oh, we have to figure out how tonavigate this.
Yeah, Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Val (16:31):
So I had come to you with some like, Hey, Ka, I think for
me to continue this podcast,this is what I'm gonna need and
this is how I see the podcast.
This is the podcast I don'twanna podcasts I might wanna do
And this is what I think itmight require a view for me to
feel comfortable and in, I don'tknow, in your words, you were
(16:53):
like, I think I understood you,but maybe I didn't fully,
Kat (16:57):
Right.
Yeah.
So I came away from thatconversation, which I don't
remember how many weeks ago.
It was weeks ago.
But I came outta thatconversation being like, Oh,
yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Like basically, I think the wayI came to understand it was
like, you want the, the podcastto be a little more produced,
right?
And a little more like care andpre-planning and attention to
it.
And I was like, Totally.
(17:19):
That makes, that makes sense.
But I, I really left thatconversation being like, We need
better outlines, like, to makeVal happy.
We need better outlines.
And I was like, Sure.
Okay.
So like, I wasn't like trying tobe obtuse, but like that's
really what I, what Iunderstood.
Yeah.
And it turns out like it wasactually a little bit more than
that.
Val (17:38):
Yeah, maybe a little deeper
Kat (17:39):
that
Val (17:39):
that.
And maybe just a little bitdifferent philosophy or, or
outlook about Yeah, just how thepodcast cash should be, I But in
the background of thatconversation was also just sort
of some real boring kind of lologistical details.
Sure.
That.
When you came to me about theidea about doing a podcast, I
(18:02):
was like, Oh my gosh, I'mlooking for a way to market my
business.
And the podcast is one of theoptions.
And yeah, I think it would begreat.
And from the beginning I knew,what was ever gonna happen
between us.
I couldn't mold it and shape itinto anything other than what it
was gonna be.
Kat (18:19):
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Val (18:21):
And so we just talked a little bit more.
Well, should we tell everyonewe've had, like we've been
talking in my dining room forlike two hours, to be
Kat (18:29):
processing all our feelings.
Good
Val (18:30):
job.
We are doing more care
Kat (18:32):
Yeah.
Val (18:33):
For the podcast ahead of
Kat (18:34):
time.
Val (18:34):
Yeah.
Processing feelings.
But yeah, I always knew thepodcast just had to be, what it
was gonna be, and it was eithergonna do what I thought it was
gonna do or not.
Sure.
And it turns out it's not it'snot actually, you know,
correlating directly to mybusiness.
And so then it's like, okay,well then how much time can I
actually.
Commit to it.
Yeah.
(18:54):
So while we kind of, maybe weretalking sort of philosophically
or what we needed for thepodcast, there's this other
thing that really has nothing todo with you or I really is just
kind of like time management andtime allocation.
So then yeah.
I.
Talk about that, which I knewwasn't gonna be your favorite.
Is that my favorite?
(19:15):
I've had, you know, it's beenamazing to do this and I think
that, you know, with our sharedhistories, I could speak for
myself, but I think we both likereally felt like, Oh, this is
the part of myself I miss.
And just like that we used toget from like preaching or
teaching or doing other things,it was like we had a place to
talk about.
(19:36):
What was going on and,
Kat (19:37):
what we learned in all of our knowledge.
like, we, like disseminating ourknowledge.
while being hilarious andirreverent.
Yeah.
Val (19:46):
Oh.
I had someone tell me it socialdiscourse, like getting our
voices out in the socialdiscourse of, of what, how
people are talking And I thinkthat both you and I feel like,
yeah, our voices should be outin the social discourse in some
way.
Like, we got, we got stuff to
Kat (20:00):
say, we got jokes to make,
Val (20:03):
we got stories to tell.
We got like, like just somegreat analogies and like
explaining concepts to give topeople.
Kat (20:10):
Well, yeah, cuz also we have learned some cool fucking
shit too, and that it does feelreally good to get to that.
Val (20:18):
Yeah.
We've done some really hard workin different areas, right?
And like you said, how do younavigate that even between two
people that are pretty good atthis stuff, right.
That it's still painful andstill hard.
And I know I have a, a hard timemaking decisions sometimes.
And so I also didn't wanna Ididn't wanna throw the baby out
with the bath water, you know?
And so I was like, Well whatabout if I just go with what I'm
(20:40):
sure that I
Kat (20:41):
Mm-hmm.
Val (20:41):
And I think at that time I was sure that I knew I needed a
break.
I was doing the editing thattook longer than I would love
for it to, and I just was like,I think I need to.
Spend some of this time that,you know, on my business and
getting excited about some ofthe programs that I wanted to
spend more time on.
And so I didn't know for surethat this was the end end, but I
(21:05):
just knew that I needed to takea And so I was ready to come in
hot and be like, Hey Cat, thisis what I decided and I got one
more in me.
So let's talk about transitionsand endings and tell everybody
that let's just end season one.
Like it's a really long season.
Let's just end season one sothat it feels like, yeah, we
could say like, Okay, we've doneseason one.
(21:25):
We'll see if we'll be back forseason two.
And then What I didn't take intoaccount in my equation was that
I've had time to really thinkabout this and become familiar
with it, and I was just droppingit like a, like a hot turn on
your doorstep and you're like,Wait a minute.
So I, I, I fully own that.
I didn't really think about, Youmight need some time to really
(21:49):
just kind of sit with thisprocess.
It.
Before we could come back.
So you put a notice on our,Instagram page of like, we're
taking a break
Kat (21:58):
Yeah.
Val (21:58):
so it's kind of given us some time Yeah.
To process kind of what's beengoing
Kat (22:03):
on.
Right.
And so, yeah, I mean, it, it wassurprising, well, maybe not
surprising, but it, it didprovoke a lot of feelings in me
that I didn't anticipate.
Right.
And so on one hand I'm like, Oh,of course Val needs to center
herself in her own life and howshe uses her time and what she
wants to invest in with herbusiness.
And, you know, of course likethat makes perfect sense to And
(22:25):
and, and so that was.
One response, but then it tookme a little while to like,
actually feel the feelings I wasfeeling about some, some deeper
reactions that had in me andlike I.
I started to realize, oh, thisis dinging me, This is like
dinging, like old abandonmentfeelings.
And the idea that, you know, Ithink a lot of us, especially
(22:49):
fem people, it's the like, Oh,I'm too much and not enough
Val (22:53):
time.
Kat (22:54):
Cuz there was, there, there definitely became an imbalance
of how many hours you werespending working on the podcast
versus what the tasks that I wasand in the larger arc of my,
you.
My personal life while alsoproducing the, the podcast
together was just an epicallychallenging year, you know?
And so I definitely over andover had a downshift to doing
(23:16):
the bare minimum so that I couldlike, get through the fucking
day, you know?
Yeah.
And then the podcast was likethis lifeline of like, Oh, even
though I'm having a particularlyhard time of my life I could
show up here and I could belike, good at And.
And then it, it just, it createda fucking life raft.
And so like all of a sudden mygoddamn life raft is God, and
(23:39):
I'm dealing with like deepertrauma than ever.
And like, I'm like, Oh God.
Like it was
Val (23:46):
Did you ever feel like, Come on, be honest.
Did you ever be like, Fuck you,Val, what are you taking away My
life raft.
Kat (23:51):
Really?
No.
Come on.
I'm so much nicer than you No,cuz like, that's the thing.
Like, I promise the idea that welearn how to send to ourselves
is so fucking important to me,right?
Yeah.
And like, So like, I think thatI have a tendency, I don't get
mad at people very well.
Like I, It almost does feel likea weak area.
(24:13):
Yeah.
Like, I'm not good at it.
Yeah.
You know, and like I, I.
It sounds so strange, but likethe kind of boundaries that you
need to hold that sometimesrequires like that clarity of
anger.
Mm.
And so sometimes, because I justdon't have a lot of access to
that still mm-hmm.
and, you know, I mean, I, itseems so strange to say it.
I'm actively working on,
Val (24:34):
I was gonna say Yeah.
You to, Yeah.
You told me that you werenoticing that you were able to
access anger.
Yeah.
I always, if a client tells methat, that they're not mad at
somebody who did somethingreally horrible, I'm like, Oh,
we're gonna have to,
Kat (24:46):
Yeah, well and
Val (24:48):
there's no access to it yet.
Kat (24:49):
Oh my God.
Like, so I told her I did amushroom trip this
Val (24:52):
Mm-hmm.
Kat (24:53):
Mm-hmm like I was doing some big work, like family of
origin stuff, and I was like,Jesus Christ.
Like my, my parents were verydysfunctional.
There was a lot of childhoodtrauma.
I'm relieved at that as to nottry to trigger other people.
However, I was.
Ready to see them in theircomplexity and to, to
(25:15):
contextualize their failures andnot stay present with my own
goddamn fucking story.
Val (25:22):
Mm.
Kat (25:23):
And so that's the work that I'm doing.
Right?
Mm.
And so while all this big shitis moving around, I was finally
able to be like really mad
Val (25:32):
Mm.
Kat (25:32):
Mad at my dead dad, you know, Yeah.
And and I'm just sort of seeingthat in, in, in other dynamics
that exist in my life where I amnot doing a great job.
And, you know, and again, Idon't, I don't mean it to sound
like it's self critical, it'sjust that it's, it's a challenge
for me and how I interpreted allmy own trauma and how I chose to
like, like mold and conform andcontort in order to survive,
(25:54):
right?
I chose to be pleasing and Ichose to be all these things.
And the undoing of that vow isGod difficult, you know?
Val (26:01):
Well, and our culture, right?
I mean, not even just from theevangelical space of like, you
know church leadership who, harmpeople.
It's always let's contextualize,let's have empathy for, for them
and what they were going throughand never about the And so, and
in our larger culture, it's,that still happens as well.
(26:21):
So, Sure.
Kat (26:22):
And I do think both are necessary.
I just think that I, you know,like I am kind of a person of
extremes and so like I justlived in that other camp to my
own detriment.
I lived in the camp that.
Well, and I think it's anincredible skill to be able to
see a human being in theircomplexity.
Right.
And, and so, Yeah.
(26:43):
And, and so empathy that ends uprobbing me of my ability to stay
angry enough to, to have like,boundaries.
Like, it's almost like I've beendoing boundary work for my own
child
Val (26:56):
setting.
Mm yeah, it's like for thatanger to rise up I love the
quote, I'm probably not gonnaanyway.
I don't it first, but just thatour anger tells us that this is
not okay.
We should be treateddifferently.
Right.
So anger, it's alwayscontextualized as a negative
thing, but.
That is like part of theboundary work, right?
(27:16):
Like, Oh no, you've okay.
Right.
And kind of forces thatreckoning
Kat (27:23):
or Yeah
Val (27:24):
expels the energy too, right?
That's not okay.
Hey, that's why we, we've beenkind of talking about how we're
just saying, Fuck you is okay,it just getting it out.
Or I notice me and my husband dothat so much.
I'm like, oh.
And it, but I think it'sactually good
Kat (27:41):
I do too.
Val (27:41):
little bits, right?
Cuz it's those little tinyresentments or the things that
we don't say, or the emotionsthat get trapped in our body.
It's playful, but it's expellingan emotion
Kat (27:51):
It is rid of.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's interesting, I heardyou say the word resent
resentments, and I'm like, Oh.
Like again, resentment isanother thing that's like,
Resentment is like the lingeringof anger, right, Of like, I, I
am able to hold the fact that Iwas wronged here.
(28:12):
Or even if it's a perception, Iperceive that I was wronged I.
Don't, I don't have access tothat yet.
Mm.
Which is so strange.
It sounds like, oh, that's areally like spiritually evolved
way to be in the world.
But it is a fucking overcorrection.
It is a goddamn trauma response.
You know?
Val (28:33):
I've walked clients the re some reasons why anger is hard
for us when we've been wrongedanger.
Is the, is the proof that we'vebeen wronged.
And so when we recognize anger,we have to face that we've been
(28:54):
hurt and that these, that, thatpeople have hurt and that.
Then that opens the gate of,well, why did they hurt and why
did this happen?
And so to acknowledge the angeris really to acknowledge that
we've And sometimes that is aprotective measure because if
it's your parents, right?
(29:14):
That's a very
Kat (29:16):
cause.
Then once you're able to say,Yeah, I've been harmed, Right?
And you, then the emotions haveto come.
And I, you know, it'sinteresting.
Again, like I'm really fresh offthis like trip where I, the
weekend where I, I did amushroom trip and mushrooms.
Again, I don't know if you guyslisten to the drug episode or if
you watch the documentary onNetflix, but it's how to Change
Your Mind on Netflix and it, wehave these tools that sort of
(29:40):
soften the trauma and allow youto feel the emotions without it
being so fucking triggering and.
Yeah.
And so, you know, like thisseason I'm in, I'm like,
hermiting, you know, has been,it's fucking rich and beautiful
and I'm crying a lot, you know,and I'm I'm noticing that even
though it's quite painful andreally like a lot of stuff is
(30:02):
there is also this, like theamount of like in, in
Val (30:09):
Mm.
Kat (30:10):
another like core wounding is being And so it is a very to
but also like super theuniverse.
Val (30:25):
Mm.
Kat (30:25):
I can't explain that rationally.
Makes no sense.
It's like living in a, in a, ina dichotomy.
like living in I, I know thatthis season doesn't last
forever, and I feel the insidesof almost like in real time.
It feels like it's happening,like efficiently, you know?
Cause I, you know, again, likehyper fixation, I'm all fucking
in.
(30:45):
Once I started to recognize whatwas happening, I, you know, I
cleared my fucking schedule,Val, and then you cleared the
fucking schedule for me.
So, thank you,
Val (30:55):
This is one.
Fuck you, Val.
Come on.
Come on, come on,
Kat (30:57):
Fuck you, Mel.
Val (30:58):
There we go.
Yeah,
Kat (31:00):
Oh, it hurt my feelings to say that
Val (31:07):
Oh,
Kat (31:08):
Okay.
I'm gonna try.
I'm gonna try.
Wait, listen.
Listen.
Yeah.
Fuck you.
Come home from Europe and breakup with me.
Oh, no.
That's so hard.
Val (31:19):
Yeah.
And right.
I can hold the both end of like,Yeah, I did.
You were saying something aboutnot holding me responsible and
I'm like, well, I mean, I thinkI am responsible, but also it,
it not being a malicious YeahRight.
And my large amount of or accessto empathy and yours too.
I mean, I knew, this was notgonna be your favorite.
(31:41):
I knew how, how important thiswas to you.
And, and part of my work was tobe able to say that, right?
I can hold that I caused harmand also, Was not malicious and
I had to Yeah.
Right.
To center myself.
Kat (31:54):
Well, that's what's so interesting.
And because I can like totallyget on board with like, of
course we have to centerourself, you know, like, it, it
really took me like asignificant amount of time to be
like, ouch.
You know?
I mean like, I knew it wasouchie, but like, How it hurt,
you know?
Or that, you know, I'm evenhard, It's hard for me to say
out loud it caused harm.
(32:14):
I mean, it made me cry, but Icry all the time.
So like, is that harming me?
it.
So did it harm me?
I, I, that, that feels like alittle harder to say, but what I
can for sure say is it did feellike the, the, the floor dropped
out from underneath me again.
You know, And like I've had thatscenario happen more than once
(32:35):
in this year where I am, youknow, just sort of happily, you
know, clip it along and then thefloor fluen drops out from
underneath me and that.
You know, doesn't feel good, andyet it sort of fed right into
this, this season.
That is good.
This
Val (32:51):
season helping
Kat (32:52):
me and is, is.
Producing something beautiful.
You know, like I've beenlistening to Taylor Swift's new
album and she has this songcalled Vigilante Shit.
And I fucking love
Val (33:04):
what
Kat (33:05):
because, you know, and I wrote a post and I put it on my
Instagram and I was like, I feellike I'm trying really hard to
find a way to.
Okay.
If I'm like, like mad and angry,if, if I'm like the villain in
someone's story, you know, likeif I'm if I'm imperfect, if I'm
like unapologetically flawed,unapologetically neurodiverse in
(33:29):
a way that like, this is how mybrain functions, this is what
makes sense to me, you know,and, you know, as it relates to
the podcast, like, you know,your clear ask is, I want it to
be more produced.
And then I sat with that and Irealized, Oh, I don't want to,
That makes it feel confining tome.
And I love the, like that youcan get into a flow state from
(33:50):
just talking extemporaneously.
And I like the freedom of that.
And it feels like when we get todo that, it feels like we get to
be in this flow state that is soenergizing to me.
And so life-giving that.
That's what I wanna be able todo and say unapologetic, like,
like, no, actually this is thething that I'm good at.
This is the thing,
Val (34:09):
Mm
Kat (34:10):
is how I'm good at it.
I'm good at it in thisparticular way, and it's in
conflict to the way that youwant to be.
You know, And that's not wrong,is different.
Right?
And so how we navigate that isstill something we'll like, try
to see what's out there for us.
But
Val (34:24):
yeah.
and.
I think that maybe I wasn't ableto say, Hey Kat, I think that a
lot of the work of this wasfalling on my shoulders cuz I, I
actually don't have a problemwith the flow state or the
extemporaneous.
I think it probably was mefeeling like I was shouldering
more of the burden of the workand.
(34:48):
maybe preparing more.
Yeah, Yeah.
Kat (34:54):
absolutely
Val (34:54):
I think my bar's kinda low and I think that's maybe where
some of our miscommunicationcame in.
Cause I'm like, no, I, I'm nottrying to stop that.
But I want us to be prepared fora topic that we talk about.
And, and actually it probablyfelt to me like maybe we were
relying more on my expertise.
Kat (35:12):
Mm.
Val (35:13):
Doesn't always come from a flow stake cuz it's like, Oh
yeah, let me remember the fivesymptoms of X, y, Z or let me.
So I'm like, let me, let mebrush up on that.
Right?
And then, and so I think thatwas clashing with like, I just
wanna like speakextemporaneously.
I'm like well, but yeah, sureyou could do that Cuz.
Cuz if we're speaking on thetopic.
(35:33):
I've done, I've brushed up on myresearch or on my expertise.
So I felt like there was sort ofthat, that maybe a resentment
building up or like we were,that was a foundation on which
you could extemporaneously, butI was spending time making sure
I was ready.
Kat (35:52):
Yeah.
And that made you mad?
Val (35:53):
did make me mad.
It did.
and I could say it And I said,It did make me mad.
It did make me mad.
Yeah.
Kat (36:04):
You get.
I love you so much, Val I
Val (36:10):
I love you too.
You know, Can, we can tune innext time
Kat (36:15):
to
Val (36:15):
if Val can, you know, calm down.
Kat (36:20):
do the
Val (36:21):
homework, will the podcast survive those two asks?
I'm not sure.
Yeah.
And, and, and you know, addingthat to like, well, can I have
the time?
So I, I'm glad that I, cuz youknow, from our personality test,
I'm the Myers Briggs.
I'm a J in the Myers Briggs,like I wanna see a situation
label it, box it up in a nicelittle thing.
(36:43):
Oh, that's what I think aboutthat.
Or Yes, this will work.
No, this won't work.
And that feels more comfortablefor me.
And so I, I've actually reallytried to work on that cuz I'm
like, man, I don't know that,that always serves me.
Let me see if I can have thedistress tolerance to be like, I
don't know how I feel aboutthat, or I'm not sure.
And so as we were talking, as Iwas telling you, like, well,
(37:03):
what I know for sure some, maybesome other ideas of how the
podcast could continue.
Yeah.
Maybe, not every week.
Maybe we do it on the weekdays,so I don't feel like, Oh, you
know, I'm, I'm not spending timeon, on, on some of my other
business stuff or
Kat (37:21):
Right.
Yeah
Val (37:23):
other, you know, ideas of how the podcast could continue.
So I'm glad that I did leavethat space because some other
things Right.
Kat (37:34):
right.
Yeah.
And that's the thing too, like,so again, here we're sort of
showing this with you allbecause we really value
transparency and authenticity.
so a lot of you have been onthis journey with us this whole
time with the podcast.
And so we, we really did, welanded in a, in a place of
conflict, right.
And And again, not in any waymalicious, not malicious
(37:56):
conflict, Not all conflict isright.
Mm-hmm.
And so, so then the, thequestion
Val (38:00):
Well, except for when I was like, Fuck you cat.
No, no, no.
Kat (38:07):
Actually, it's funny cuz during our, like long
debriefing, before we started, Iwas like, Do you like me
Val (38:12):
No.
Kat (38:13):
I was like, you know, again, like it's, it's the
context is like I have all thisother real tender stuff.
While, you know, you and I arenavigating like smart, brilliant
grownups navigating this, thisconflict, right?
And so I got to ask for what Ineeded.
Cuz what I needed like was like,just like me please.
Like me, Like still like
Val (38:33):
Does this mean that?
Yeah.
And I do do still like you alot.
and also I think that we have aresponsibility because I, you
know, we joke about how like onon social media, we, we see
people's relationships and thenall of a sudden one day it's
just like their profilepicture's changed and the other,
they've scrubbed the otherperson.
It's like we've heard all thegood shit.
(38:54):
Like, I, I at least make astatement what happened?
Like it just feels like ghostingin kind of a different way.
Isn't that funny?
Kat (39:01):
interesting.
Yeah,
Val (39:02):
Yeah.
It does feel like ghosting
Kat (39:03):
the time.
There's all these lesbians thatare like coupling up and then,
and then it gets, it gets,there's some drama.
Val (39:10):
So I feel like No, you need to tell us what happened.
We couldn't just stop thepodcast and I don't think we
would've ever done
Kat (39:16):
that.
No.
And we love it.
We love the podcast.
We love our listeners.
Like there's a whole bunch ofyou that we, we know now that's
We love you.
Yes.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
We don't know, but this is theend of season one.
We don't know what season twomight look like.
We have some ideas and we'reapplying creativity to how we
like navigate you, centering youand me, centering me.
(39:38):
And and yeah, we might bring insome more people.
And it could be pretty fun.
Val (39:43):
So subscribe would be a great way to know when we drop
the next one.
We might just have to come onbefore or after the holidays.
Say hello.
Yeah.
Share whatever's happening.
So that's that.
And, and follow us on Instagramtoo just to kind of, we'll let
everyone know when a new episodedrops.
(40:03):
Keep in touch.
And we'll To be continued.
Kat (40:10):
be continued.
Val, I love you so much.
Val (40:16):
Thank you.
Thank you for being on thisjourney, for suggesting it in
the first And I don't know if Isaid it during before, but I, I
know it was the right
Kat (40:30):
Oh,
Val (40:32):
And of exciting
Kat (40:36):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I can't wait to come backat some point and tell you all
about my villain phase or
Val (40:44):
What's your Halloween costume?
Is it a
Kat (40:47):
Nothing.
I care about nothing right now.
Oh, my kids are doing shit.
But I like, people are invitingme to fun stuff and I'm like,
I'm sorry, I can't I like, Ican't make plans at all.
Val (40:57):
Well, cuz you told me Halloween is gay Christmas.
Kat (40:59):
Right.
And so this year I'm just like,I'm not participating in the
holidays.
Ok.
Val (41:04):
just in case you wanna make like a TikTok thirst trap from
your Hermiting cave
Kat (41:09):
Mm-hmm something.
Yeah.
I mean, if I get high, I mightdo that some night, cuz I, I
still have those impulses forsure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Val (41:15):
right.
I love you, Ka.
Thanks for today,
Kat (41:17):
Val.
I love you so much.
Val (41:19):
Bye everybody.
Kat (41:21):
Hello listener.
Thank you again for hanging outwith us this season.
Saying goodbye and at creating aseason finale was a bit
bittersweet for us, as youprobably heard.
And I just thought it'd be funto share a few like cool things
with you before we said goodbye.
Goodbye.
So our little venture ended upcreating nearly 3000 downloads
(41:44):
in 17 different countries acrossthe world.
360 cities and you, if you werewith us for the whole journey,
you heard 29 episodes thatValerie and I put out with lots
of love and care and enthusiasm.
Thank you so much for being partof this.
Please subscribe if you'd liketo be updated about when we've
(42:04):
got more for you.
Until then, good luck out there.
Humans, we're cheering for you.
You're listening to three questions with Katten, Val I'm
Kat and I'm bow.
We've been friends for over 20years.
Thousands of therapists and catsand artists.
We're both great talkers.
And we're both XFN delicacy whoused to pastor gay.
Now we both have chronicillnesses.
We think we're fuckinghilarious.
Kat (00:33):
Yay Cat Val are back after several weeks off.
And if you are a longtimelistener, you will find that
this episode is a bit differentthan our normal episodes.
We decided to like lift the veila little bit and let you see
what our dynamic looks like whenwe're not being excessively
charming and brilliant.
(00:54):
during the podcast.
And, yeah, we, we noticed thatwe had something to kind of like
work through and so we thoughtit would be maybe cool and
beneficial.
And transparent of us to likelet you all see that.
And so that's what you're infor.
This is our season one finaleand thank you so much for being
on this journey with us.
Here we go, Cat, and be.
(01:15):
Hello,
Val (01:17):
Cat, is that you?
Is it really?
You
Kat (01:20):
Hello, friend.
I haven't seen in a very long
Val (01:23):
long time.
I know, and even longer since welast Podcasted.
Kat (01:28):
Hello.
Welcome listeners.
We're so happy that you'reenjoying us.
Val (01:33):
Did you miss us?
Come on.
Tell the truth.
Tell the truth.
Kat (01:36):
I missed us.
Val (01:38):
I missed us.
And yeah, What have we beendoing?
What have you been
Kat (01:46):
No.
you have to go first.
Come on Val.
You've got
Val (01:49):
Okay, Well our break, Our break all started cuz I was
going to Europe my first timesince the pandemic.
And first it was Amsterdam,
Kat (01:57):
which you are such a fancy bitch.
Val (01:59):
Well, and Amsterdam feels like an old friend cause I've
been there a
Kat (02:02):
Oh,
Val (02:02):
Okay And one of ra fe's business partners.
Kat (02:04):
What makes it like an old friend?
That's
Val (02:07):
Well, cuz I've been there so much and I was feeling
anxious about like the sh likeit was, it was a very last
minute trip.
And then I get, like, I get, Iwanna like, like plan new places
and like see everything.
But it was like, no, it's justlike visiting an old friend.
Like I've been there so manytimes.
I could just like go and Ohyeah, I know where everything
Kat (02:26):
Yeah.
That's
Val (02:26):
and it's so And then we stayed with Rufus business his
family for a day, and I got likea, I I, I got a haircut kind of
against my will
Kat (02:37):
That was funny.
You showed me pictures, which
Val (02:39):
really funny.
There was a small cat
Kat (02:41):
involved.
Val (02:41):
And and it was funny cuz I wouldn't let you cut my hair,
but then this stranger, I kindof was like, All right, I'm
taking a gamble, but she's ahairdresser.
So
Kat (02:48):
There's a language barrier too, right?
Val (02:50):
yes.
So I always feel bad like sayingno to someone in another
language cuz then they might.
I might not do a good jobletting them down easily.
So anyway, it was lovely.
And then I went to Florencewhere I, I'd never been to
Florence before and met one ofmy best friends, Rai's twin, a
Peacock twin and her husband cuzthey they were there for
(03:10):
business.
And had an amazing time inFlorence and I thought one day
we were in like Tuscany and I,I, my, my great idea for like a
funny t-shirt was like I gotbaked under the
Kat (03:24):
T
Val (03:25):
Sun
Kat (03:27):
Yay.
Val (03:27):
we just had Cappuccinos and Ella's princes and massages and
maybe some, you know deliciousgummies.
And then did it all, took a napand did it all again.
Kat (03:39):
Oh my gosh.
Val (03:39):
So that was, that was just, it was so fun, you know, just
being in a new place and justexperiencing.
Kat (03:48):
Being high in a new
Val (03:49):
plane,
Kat (03:50):
living your best life.
I love it.
I love it.
Val (03:52):
It was so good.
And to be there with friends,meeting friends in different
countries
Kat (03:56):
is like
Val (03:57):
pretty awesome thing to do.
So we did that.
And then also, I, I don't thinkwe talked about this last year,
but I went on the second annual.
Las Vegas pickleball.
Ch getaway
Kat (04:10):
Yay
Val (04:12):
with the local pickleball
Kat (04:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Val (04:14):
Last year I think there was like 50 people that went, and
this year there was like 80, Ithink.
Kat (04:19):
Yeah.
Pickleball is taken off.
I mean, everyone's super intoit.
And so you go and you travel forlike a competition, right?
Val (04:26):
Well, what's funny is like, it's just, yeah, there is like a
little tournament, but it's likesomeone's like, So let me get
this straight.
Yeah.
You went to Vegas to playpickleball with the same people
that you play pickleball here.
all day you play pickleball andthe next day you played
pickleball and the next day youplayed pickleball.
Mm-hmm.
I'm like, yeah, pretty much
Kat (04:42):
So like you just get on an airplane, stay in a hotel to
just play a ball all day, everyday with the same people from
Val (04:48):
Well, okay.
And then some of the, like the,the fun parts of Vegas, like we
went and saw a show which again,like the creativity, like
someone so, Oh.
me like, I'm like, Well, why arethings going well?
She's like, I'm expelling my
Kat (05:03):
Mm.
Val (05:04):
In ways I hadn't been before.
And I'm like, No, we need to dothat.
Like, and
Kat (05:09):
Wait, who is saying that too?
Val (05:10):
A client was telling me like, I was asked, she's like,
Oh, things are great.
I'm like, Tell me why things aregreat.
Kat (05:15):
she's
Val (05:16):
I have outlets to expel my It's so important, dear friends
and listeners.
if you're feeling like you're ina little rut, just not feeling
yourself, need a littledopamine, pick me up, Get in
contact with your creativity, orgo watch someone else's, or turn
(05:38):
on Project Runway or like IronChef or something where someone
is being creative or that glassblowing one that everyone is
excited about.
I, I, I haven't gotten into thatone.
I gotta pace myself, but I justrealized, Going and seeing
creativity is just, I, it makes
Kat (05:55):
it all.
Yeah.
You know, the voice does thatfor me too.
The voice will do that cuz likepeople are just like belting it
out and they're like
Val (06:00):
making stuff their own Yes.
Yeah.
they
Kat (06:03):
collaborate right when they're doing the battles.
So they have to, they'vecombined their creativity and
their giftings and theirtalents.
It's cool.
It really, I love that
Val (06:10):
So important.
Important stuff.
Kat (06:12):
Yeah.
Val (06:13):
And Yeah.
You know, good food and yeah,there's a hotel there that has
like 16 quarts and so you stayand it's a rooftop with a pool
next to it and like frozen, likedri machines.
So in the tournament as I'mlike, How'd you do?
I'm like, well, in the last one,my, my partner was, was drugs We
(06:35):
didn't do too well.
like, can we get that onestricken from the
Kat (06:39):
directly Oh
Val (06:39):
So you know, it, it, and then, yeah, you.
But it's such an addictivesport.
It's like, yeah, let's justplay.
And so we had a great time, butit was the second annual, the
first time.
I gotta tell you the story.
Cause this never made it on thepodcast.
The first time we had we had, wehadn't met everyone and Rafi had
hurt, my husband had hurt hisfoot, so not everyone knew him.
And he couldn't play.
So I'm like, Go put your speedon and go to the pool.
(07:01):
Like, just do what you gotta do.
Just be yourself, right?
Like, I know you don't knowthese people.
Just go be yourself.
So we're, we're next to it, likeplaying pickleball and, and like
the punchline is that there wereguys from the trip trying to
protect me from my own husbandwhen he approached me in his
speedo.
Kat (07:18):
they see is this tall man in a Speedo walking up to you
being really familiar.
Saing
Val (07:23):
up.
Yeah.
Like talking to me and, and twodifferent people later came up
to me and were like, You know, Ididn't know Rafi was your
husband, so I saw this guycoming up to you in a Speedo and
like, what is he doing?
Like, do I need to go protecther?
And I was like, That'shilarious.
Yes.
On a regular basis, peopletrying to protect me from my own
husband.
But then later on we werehanging out with this guy and
(07:43):
these, and these women were.
Visibly thirsting for him.
like, Like
Kat (07:49):
was he still in the Speedo?
Val (07:51):
No, this is another guy.
Okay.
Yeah, it wasn't my husband.
This is a guy and he has thislike,
Kat (07:55):
Oh.
Val (07:56):
Like this amazing, like, like white, like qu hair.
Like it's, it's, it's, it's,it's very, you know, it's, it's
a nice look, right?
So he's out there and he's all,he's, he's just listening to
this concert, but I'm watchingthese women like, like, like, I
mean, it couldn't have been,they were just staring, thirsty,
thirsty.
Gaze is at him, right?
(08:17):
Throwing him at him and henotices, he's listening to, to
the, to the thing.
And then it was funny cuz I waslike, Do I need to save him
Kat (08:24):
him Right.
Val (08:25):
from them?
I'm like, No, we're all grownadults.
And so then this year everyoneknew Rafi and they're like,
Ahaha, But then this friend AnneRafi went out just to hear the
same, like, I mean, it'seighties hair, ba metal bands.
I was like, No, thank you.
Like, have a great time.
Right.
So they're out on like old, thisis old Vegas where and there's
(08:47):
these bands and so I guess thiswoman came up to our friend.
And said something and thenwalked away and they're like,
Oh, you know what, what did thatwoman say?
What'd she want?
Yeah.
Oh, she, she was said she waslooking for a good time.
Was I looking for a good time?
I'm like, Oh, they're trying topick up on our friend again.
So I guess Rafi went, went backout again later by himself.
(09:09):
And then he's like, Man, thesame woman came up to me.
And then she goes, Are youlooking for a good time?
You want a good time?
And he's like I'm watching theconcert.
And then she
Kat (09:18):
she goes, she
Val (09:19):
Well, do you know I'm expensive?
And then he goes, Well, I don'tknow that, but I'm cheap
Kat (09:27):
and
Val (09:27):
she walked away.
Kat (09:32):
That's super funny.
Val (09:33):
job.
ra.
I love it.
He's like, Well, I don't know.
I don't know if you'reexpensive, but you gotta know
I'm cheap.
Ugh.
So we've been, you know, having,having some fun out here.
Kat (09:44):
Yeah.
Val (09:45):
Other update is, I was so excited to tell you this morning
that my fiddle leaf fig, whichI'm just desperately trying to
keep alive,
Kat (09:52):
Yeah.
This cool big plant.
Yeah.
It's like a tree in your livingroom.
Yeah.
Val (09:55):
Yeah.
It has a mushroom
Kat (09:56):
Yes.
Val (09:58):
so we.
Kat (10:02):
the question,
Val (10:02):
I mean, I don't know how it got there.
I even put, I haven't put newsoil in it, like since I got it,
Kat (10:08):
That's amazing.
Val (10:09):
been outside, so I don't know how this mushroom creeped
in, but it's there.
So
Kat (10:14):
I love that.
It's named after me.
That makes me super happy.
That's funny.
I did like a big mushroom tripthis weekend.
Oh yeah.
It was pretty cool.
I'll tell you more about itlater, but like it was, Yeah.
And I, I, I, I think once upon atime I might have felt some
discomfort with mushrooms bebeing associated with me.
(10:34):
Like you see a mushroom, likeI'm the first person you think
of, but now I'm like leaning in.
I'm like, Holy shit.
Mushrooms are fucking amazing.
Yeah.
I'm a big fan.
Val (10:43):
and you sent me a text this weekend that was like a teller
feet that you guys should cancelyour plan so I could chaperone
you two taking mushroomstogether.
And I just wrote back, No
Kat (10:57):
I know we had talked about getting together on Saturday or
Sunday and then I was like,Yeah, and then you guys can do
mushrooms after my gosh.
Val (11:08):
what have you been up to?
Kat (11:10):
Oh, I've been up to, not very much.
It's interesting, so a fewepisodes ago, We talked about
how, I think it was thevulnerability episode, we talked
about how some of ourdiscussions about family of
origin stuff, right?
Because we did an episode aboutfamily ties and and it just sort
of was like a catalyst of likesome deeper healing and and then
(11:31):
I thought, I thought we had likediscovered a new pocket of pain.
Val (11:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I felt very proud of myself thatI coined
Kat (11:38):
it.
Oh yeah.
And I was like, Yes, A pocket.
It's a pocket.
Val (11:41):
I've done so much healing before.
I
Kat (11:42):
I know.
And then you left town and itturned out it was like a chasm.
Like all of my deepest innerturmoil, like my preverbal
trauma.
Oh, and I'm making a little bitlight of it, but like I, I
really decided to let go of anyresistance I had to this being
like a real season, you know?
(12:03):
And so I started telling peoplelike, Oh, it feels like I'm
like, hermiting, I think I'm ina hermiting And that's just
really true.
So like, like people are like,Oh, what are you doing this
weekend?
I'm like, I do not have plansLike, and so I just you know, I
get to be present with my kidsduring the week, and so that's,
Social interaction plus, youknow, I have a roommate you
know, I get to see her prettyregular.
And but I just, I need a lot oftime still and it's real tender
(12:27):
and it's also okay, but I'mdoing a lot of deep work.
And so you're out there likeliving your best life, like, on
like, so many like, like, likeadventures and like playing.
Being in the world that I'mlike, I am alone.
So very alone.
And
Val (12:48):
if anyone's listening, right, I mean for everyone who's
listening right now, you've seenthe title, which Ka won to say,
Call Our First Fight.
And I don't know if that'sactually the title we, you know,
in post protection and we mightchange it, but I think that
like, I just wanna say we'll getto that and maybe some of that
is, was pressing on, some of itwas pressing on some of those
(13:10):
wounds or.
Kat (13:11):
Yeah.
Val (13:12):
Yeah,
Kat (13:13):
Because you came home from Europe.
Okay.
Yeah.
Val (13:16):
your story.
Go ahead.
Kat (13:18):
You came home from Europe.
Yes.
And broke up with me.
Yeah.
and I came over and I thought wewere gonna record that day, and
then instead you're like, Mm.
I need a break.
And then Rafi came downstairsand he said, Oh, hi Kat.
And I was like, Hi.
And he's like, How are you?
And I was like Val just broke upwith me, And he was like, Me
(13:41):
too.
Val (13:44):
man.
His comedic timing is pretty
Kat (13:46):
good too.
Cause he's like
Val (13:48):
yeah, she tried to do that to me too.
Yep.
Yep.
Join the club.
Yep.
Okay.
You doing all right?
All right.
it was probably the tensionbreaker that we all needed.
Kat (13:56):
It was funny.
Val (13:57):
Actually.
He interrupted a really He, hedoesn't check, he doesn't read
the room before he startstalking.
And so I think I, I think Iremember we.
Deep in this, like, you know,deep and meaningful.
He's like, Hey, Ka, how are you?
And you're like Val's breakingup me right now.
Excuse me.
He's like, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,it's right.
She said, It's me too we all hada good laugh,
Kat (14:18):
It was really helpful.
Val (14:19):
I mean, I'm gonna tell my side of it after the break, I
think.
Yeah.
Kat (14:22):
Yeah.
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Val (14:24):
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Val (15:21):
Okay.
Kat (15:21):
Yes.
So let me have it,
Val (15:24):
I.
I'm not gonna dispute yourtimeline.
And actually what happened cuzyou were like, Hey Val, what are
we gonna talk about today?
And I was kind of like, Well Ithink I've got something else to
talk about first.
And I was like, Bitch, didn't Isay to you, we need to talk
about
Kat (15:42):
our
Val (15:43):
of beforehand.
So here's your surprise.
That is actually what happened.
But I think at the same time,Well, you wanna tell her or do
you want me to tell it?
Kat (15:53):
Well, so here's, here's, let's, let's paint a picture
this way.
ahead.
So you and I are two people thatare extremely emotionally
intelligent.
We are continuing to do the workof centering ourselves and our
own lives.
Yes.
We're pretty good at like,owning our stuff and like
communicating it clearly ourwants, needs and desires.
And even with all of thesethings, you are a separate
(16:14):
person than me, right?
You have your own.
You know, needs and expectationsand things.
And so us centering ourselvescreated a, not an an angry or
mean conflict, but an actuallike conflict where we're like,
Oh, we have to figure out how tonavigate this.
Yeah, Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Val (16:31):
So I had come to you with some like, Hey, Ka, I think for
me to continue this podcast,this is what I'm gonna need and
this is how I see the podcast.
This is the podcast I don'twanna podcasts I might wanna do
And this is what I think itmight require a view for me to
feel comfortable and in, I don'tknow, in your words, you were
(16:53):
like, I think I understood you,but maybe I didn't fully,
Kat (16:57):
Right.
Yeah.
So I came away from thatconversation, which I don't
remember how many weeks ago.
It was weeks ago.
But I came outta thatconversation being like, Oh,
yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Like basically, I think the wayI came to understand it was
like, you want the, the podcastto be a little more produced,
right?
And a little more like care andpre-planning and attention to
it.
And I was like, Totally.
(17:19):
That makes, that makes sense.
But I, I really left thatconversation being like, We need
better outlines, like, to makeVal happy.
We need better outlines.
And I was like, Sure.
Okay.
So like, I wasn't like trying tobe obtuse, but like that's
really what I, what Iunderstood.
Yeah.
And it turns out like it wasactually a little bit more than
that.
Val (17:38):
Yeah, maybe a little deeper
Kat (17:39):
that
Val (17:39):
that.
And maybe just a little bitdifferent philosophy or, or
outlook about Yeah, just how thepodcast cash should be, I But in
the background of thatconversation was also just sort
of some real boring kind of lologistical details.
Sure.
That.
When you came to me about theidea about doing a podcast, I
(18:02):
was like, Oh my gosh, I'mlooking for a way to market my
business.
And the podcast is one of theoptions.
And yeah, I think it would begreat.
And from the beginning I knew,what was ever gonna happen
between us.
I couldn't mold it and shape itinto anything other than what it
was gonna be.
Kat (18:19):
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Val (18:21):
And so we just talked a little bit more.
Well, should we tell everyonewe've had, like we've been
talking in my dining room forlike two hours, to be
Kat (18:29):
processing all our feelings.
Good
Val (18:30):
job.
We are doing more care
Kat (18:32):
Yeah.
Val (18:33):
For the podcast ahead of
Kat (18:34):
time.
Val (18:34):
Yeah.
Processing feelings.
But yeah, I always knew thepodcast just had to be, what it
was gonna be, and it was eithergonna do what I thought it was
gonna do or not.
Sure.
And it turns out it's not it'snot actually, you know,
correlating directly to mybusiness.
And so then it's like, okay,well then how much time can I
actually.
Commit to it.
Yeah.
(18:54):
So while we kind of, maybe weretalking sort of philosophically
or what we needed for thepodcast, there's this other
thing that really has nothing todo with you or I really is just
kind of like time management andtime allocation.
So then yeah.
I.
Talk about that, which I knewwasn't gonna be your favorite.
Is that my favorite?
(19:15):
I've had, you know, it's beenamazing to do this and I think
that, you know, with our sharedhistories, I could speak for
myself, but I think we both likereally felt like, Oh, this is
the part of myself I miss.
And just like that we used toget from like preaching or
teaching or doing other things,it was like we had a place to
talk about.
(19:36):
What was going on and,
Kat (19:37):
what we learned in all of our knowledge.
like, we, like disseminating ourknowledge.
while being hilarious andirreverent.
Yeah.
Val (19:46):
Oh.
I had someone tell me it socialdiscourse, like getting our
voices out in the socialdiscourse of, of what, how
people are talking And I thinkthat both you and I feel like,
yeah, our voices should be outin the social discourse in some
way.
Like, we got, we got stuff to
Kat (20:00):
say, we got jokes to make,
Val (20:03):
we got stories to tell.
We got like, like just somegreat analogies and like
explaining concepts to give topeople.
Kat (20:10):
Well, yeah, cuz also we have learned some cool fucking
shit too, and that it does feelreally good to get to that.
Val (20:18):
Yeah.
We've done some really hard workin different areas, right?
And like you said, how do younavigate that even between two
people that are pretty good atthis stuff, right.
That it's still painful andstill hard.
And I know I have a, a hard timemaking decisions sometimes.
And so I also didn't wanna Ididn't wanna throw the baby out
with the bath water, you know?
And so I was like, Well whatabout if I just go with what I'm
(20:40):
sure that I
Kat (20:41):
Mm-hmm.
Val (20:41):
And I think at that time I was sure that I knew I needed a
break.
I was doing the editing thattook longer than I would love
for it to, and I just was like,I think I need to.
Spend some of this time that,you know, on my business and
getting excited about some ofthe programs that I wanted to
spend more time on.
And so I didn't know for surethat this was the end end, but I
(21:05):
just knew that I needed to takea And so I was ready to come in
hot and be like, Hey Cat, thisis what I decided and I got one
more in me.
So let's talk about transitionsand endings and tell everybody
that let's just end season one.
Like it's a really long season.
Let's just end season one sothat it feels like, yeah, we
could say like, Okay, we've doneseason one.
(21:25):
We'll see if we'll be back forseason two.
And then What I didn't take intoaccount in my equation was that
I've had time to really thinkabout this and become familiar
with it, and I was just droppingit like a, like a hot turn on
your doorstep and you're like,Wait a minute.
So I, I, I fully own that.
I didn't really think about, Youmight need some time to really
(21:49):
just kind of sit with thisprocess.
It.
Before we could come back.
So you put a notice on our,Instagram page of like, we're
taking a break
Kat (21:58):
Yeah.
Val (21:58):
so it's kind of given us some time Yeah.
To process kind of what's beengoing
Kat (22:03):
on.
Right.
And so, yeah, I mean, it, it wassurprising, well, maybe not
surprising, but it, it didprovoke a lot of feelings in me
that I didn't anticipate.
Right.
And so on one hand I'm like, Oh,of course Val needs to center
herself in her own life and howshe uses her time and what she
wants to invest in with herbusiness.
And, you know, of course likethat makes perfect sense to And
(22:25):
and, and so that was.
One response, but then it tookme a little while to like,
actually feel the feelings I wasfeeling about some, some deeper
reactions that had in me andlike I.
I started to realize, oh, thisis dinging me, This is like
dinging, like old abandonmentfeelings.
And the idea that, you know, Ithink a lot of us, especially
(22:49):
fem people, it's the like, Oh,I'm too much and not enough
Val (22:53):
time.
Kat (22:54):
Cuz there was, there, there definitely became an imbalance
of how many hours you werespending working on the podcast
versus what the tasks that I wasand in the larger arc of my,
you.
My personal life while alsoproducing the, the podcast
together was just an epicallychallenging year, you know?
And so I definitely over andover had a downshift to doing
(23:16):
the bare minimum so that I couldlike, get through the fucking
day, you know?
Yeah.
And then the podcast was likethis lifeline of like, Oh, even
though I'm having a particularlyhard time of my life I could
show up here and I could belike, good at And.
And then it, it just, it createda fucking life raft.
And so like all of a sudden mygoddamn life raft is God, and
(23:39):
I'm dealing with like deepertrauma than ever.
And like, I'm like, Oh God.
Like it was
Val (23:46):
Did you ever feel like, Come on, be honest.
Did you ever be like, Fuck you,Val, what are you taking away My
life raft.
Kat (23:51):
Really?
No.
Come on.
I'm so much nicer than you No,cuz like, that's the thing.
Like, I promise the idea that welearn how to send to ourselves
is so fucking important to me,right?
Yeah.
And like, So like, I think thatI have a tendency, I don't get
mad at people very well.
Like I, It almost does feel likea weak area.
(24:13):
Yeah.
Like, I'm not good at it.
Yeah.
You know, and like I, I.
It sounds so strange, but likethe kind of boundaries that you
need to hold that sometimesrequires like that clarity of
anger.
Mm.
And so sometimes, because I justdon't have a lot of access to
that still mm-hmm.
and, you know, I mean, I, itseems so strange to say it.
I'm actively working on,
Val (24:34):
I was gonna say Yeah.
You to, Yeah.
You told me that you werenoticing that you were able to
access anger.
Yeah.
I always, if a client tells methat, that they're not mad at
somebody who did somethingreally horrible, I'm like, Oh,
we're gonna have to,
Kat (24:46):
Yeah, well and
Val (24:48):
there's no access to it yet.
Kat (24:49):
Oh my God.
Like, so I told her I did amushroom trip this
Val (24:52):
Mm-hmm.
Kat (24:53):
Mm-hmm like I was doing some big work, like family of
origin stuff, and I was like,Jesus Christ.
Like my, my parents were verydysfunctional.
There was a lot of childhoodtrauma.
I'm relieved at that as to nottry to trigger other people.
However, I was.
Ready to see them in theircomplexity and to, to
(25:15):
contextualize their failures andnot stay present with my own
goddamn fucking story.
Val (25:22):
Mm.
Kat (25:23):
And so that's the work that I'm doing.
Right?
Mm.
And so while all this big shitis moving around, I was finally
able to be like really mad
Val (25:32):
Mm.
Kat (25:32):
Mad at my dead dad, you know, Yeah.
And and I'm just sort of seeingthat in, in, in other dynamics
that exist in my life where I amnot doing a great job.
And, you know, and again, Idon't, I don't mean it to sound
like it's self critical, it'sjust that it's, it's a challenge
for me and how I interpreted allmy own trauma and how I chose to
like, like mold and conform andcontort in order to survive,
(25:54):
right?
I chose to be pleasing and Ichose to be all these things.
And the undoing of that vow isGod difficult, you know?
Val (26:01):
Well, and our culture, right?
I mean, not even just from theevangelical space of like, you
know church leadership who, harmpeople.
It's always let's contextualize,let's have empathy for, for them
and what they were going throughand never about the And so, and
in our larger culture, it's,that still happens as well.
(26:21):
So, Sure.
Kat (26:22):
And I do think both are necessary.
I just think that I, you know,like I am kind of a person of
extremes and so like I justlived in that other camp to my
own detriment.
I lived in the camp that.
Well, and I think it's anincredible skill to be able to
see a human being in theircomplexity.
Right.
And, and so, Yeah.
(26:43):
And, and so empathy that ends uprobbing me of my ability to stay
angry enough to, to have like,boundaries.
Like, it's almost like I've beendoing boundary work for my own
child
Val (26:56):
setting.
Mm yeah, it's like for thatanger to rise up I love the
quote, I'm probably not gonnaanyway.
I don't it first, but just thatour anger tells us that this is
not okay.
We should be treateddifferently.
Right.
So anger, it's alwayscontextualized as a negative
thing, but.
That is like part of theboundary work, right?
(27:16):
Like, Oh no, you've okay.
Right.
And kind of forces thatreckoning
Kat (27:23):
or Yeah
Val (27:24):
expels the energy too, right?
That's not okay.
Hey, that's why we, we've beenkind of talking about how we're
just saying, Fuck you is okay,it just getting it out.
Or I notice me and my husband dothat so much.
I'm like, oh.
And it, but I think it'sactually good
Kat (27:41):
I do too.
Val (27:41):
little bits, right?
Cuz it's those little tinyresentments or the things that
we don't say, or the emotionsthat get trapped in our body.
It's playful, but it's expellingan emotion
Kat (27:51):
It is rid of.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's interesting, I heardyou say the word resent
resentments, and I'm like, Oh.
Like again, resentment isanother thing that's like,
Resentment is like the lingeringof anger, right, Of like, I, I
am able to hold the fact that Iwas wronged here.
(28:12):
Or even if it's a perception, Iperceive that I was wronged I.
Don't, I don't have access tothat yet.
Mm.
Which is so strange.
It sounds like, oh, that's areally like spiritually evolved
way to be in the world.
But it is a fucking overcorrection.
It is a goddamn trauma response.
You know?
Val (28:33):
I've walked clients the re some reasons why anger is hard
for us when we've been wrongedanger.
Is the, is the proof that we'vebeen wronged.
And so when we recognize anger,we have to face that we've been
(28:54):
hurt and that these, that, thatpeople have hurt and that.
Then that opens the gate of,well, why did they hurt and why
did this happen?
And so to acknowledge the angeris really to acknowledge that
we've And sometimes that is aprotective measure because if
it's your parents, right?
(29:14):
That's a very
Kat (29:16):
cause.
Then once you're able to say,Yeah, I've been harmed, Right?
And you, then the emotions haveto come.
And I, you know, it'sinteresting.
Again, like I'm really fresh offthis like trip where I, the
weekend where I, I did amushroom trip and mushrooms.
Again, I don't know if you guyslisten to the drug episode or if
you watch the documentary onNetflix, but it's how to Change
Your Mind on Netflix and it, wehave these tools that sort of
(29:40):
soften the trauma and allow youto feel the emotions without it
being so fucking triggering and.
Yeah.
And so, you know, like thisseason I'm in, I'm like,
hermiting, you know, has been,it's fucking rich and beautiful
and I'm crying a lot, you know,and I'm I'm noticing that even
though it's quite painful andreally like a lot of stuff is
(30:02):
there is also this, like theamount of like in, in
Val (30:09):
Mm.
Kat (30:10):
another like core wounding is being And so it is a very to
but also like super theuniverse.
Val (30:25):
Mm.
Kat (30:25):
I can't explain that rationally.
Makes no sense.
It's like living in a, in a, ina dichotomy.
like living in I, I know thatthis season doesn't last
forever, and I feel the insidesof almost like in real time.
It feels like it's happening,like efficiently, you know?
Cause I, you know, again, likehyper fixation, I'm all fucking
in.
(30:45):
Once I started to recognize whatwas happening, I, you know, I
cleared my fucking schedule,Val, and then you cleared the
fucking schedule for me.
So, thank you,
Val (30:55):
This is one.
Fuck you, Val.
Come on.
Come on, come on,
Kat (30:57):
Fuck you, Mel.
Val (30:58):
There we go.
Yeah,
Kat (31:00):
Oh, it hurt my feelings to say that
Val (31:07):
Oh,
Kat (31:08):
Okay.
I'm gonna try.
I'm gonna try.
Wait, listen.
Listen.
Yeah.
Fuck you.
Come home from Europe and breakup with me.
Oh, no.
That's so hard.
Val (31:19):
Yeah.
And right.
I can hold the both end of like,Yeah, I did.
You were saying something aboutnot holding me responsible and
I'm like, well, I mean, I thinkI am responsible, but also it,
it not being a malicious YeahRight.
And my large amount of or accessto empathy and yours too.
I mean, I knew, this was notgonna be your favorite.
(31:41):
I knew how, how important thiswas to you.
And, and part of my work was tobe able to say that, right?
I can hold that I caused harmand also, Was not malicious and
I had to Yeah.
Right.
To center myself.
Kat (31:54):
Well, that's what's so interesting.
And because I can like totallyget on board with like, of
course we have to centerourself, you know, like, it, it
really took me like asignificant amount of time to be
like, ouch.
You know?
I mean like, I knew it wasouchie, but like, How it hurt,
you know?
Or that, you know, I'm evenhard, It's hard for me to say
out loud it caused harm.
(32:14):
I mean, it made me cry, but Icry all the time.
So like, is that harming me?
it.
So did it harm me?
I, I, that, that feels like alittle harder to say, but what I
can for sure say is it did feellike the, the, the floor dropped
out from underneath me again.
You know, And like I've had thatscenario happen more than once
(32:35):
in this year where I am, youknow, just sort of happily, you
know, clip it along and then thefloor fluen drops out from
underneath me and that.
You know, doesn't feel good, andyet it sort of fed right into
this, this season.
That is good.
This
Val (32:51):
season helping
Kat (32:52):
me and is, is.
Producing something beautiful.
You know, like I've beenlistening to Taylor Swift's new
album and she has this songcalled Vigilante Shit.
And I fucking love
Val (33:04):
what
Kat (33:05):
because, you know, and I wrote a post and I put it on my
Instagram and I was like, I feellike I'm trying really hard to
find a way to.
Okay.
If I'm like, like mad and angry,if, if I'm like the villain in
someone's story, you know, likeif I'm if I'm imperfect, if I'm
like unapologetically flawed,unapologetically neurodiverse in
(33:29):
a way that like, this is how mybrain functions, this is what
makes sense to me, you know,and, you know, as it relates to
the podcast, like, you know,your clear ask is, I want it to
be more produced.
And then I sat with that and Irealized, Oh, I don't want to,
That makes it feel confining tome.
And I love the, like that youcan get into a flow state from
(33:50):
just talking extemporaneously.
And I like the freedom of that.
And it feels like when we get todo that, it feels like we get to
be in this flow state that is soenergizing to me.
And so life-giving that.
That's what I wanna be able todo and say unapologetic, like,
like, no, actually this is thething that I'm good at.
This is the thing,
Val (34:09):
Mm
Kat (34:10):
is how I'm good at it.
I'm good at it in thisparticular way, and it's in
conflict to the way that youwant to be.
You know, And that's not wrong,is different.
Right?
And so how we navigate that isstill something we'll like, try
to see what's out there for us.
But
Val (34:24):
yeah.
and.
I think that maybe I wasn't ableto say, Hey Kat, I think that a
lot of the work of this wasfalling on my shoulders cuz I, I
actually don't have a problemwith the flow state or the
extemporaneous.
I think it probably was mefeeling like I was shouldering
more of the burden of the workand.
(34:48):
maybe preparing more.
Yeah, Yeah.
Kat (34:54):
absolutely
Val (34:54):
I think my bar's kinda low and I think that's maybe where
some of our miscommunicationcame in.
Cause I'm like, no, I, I'm nottrying to stop that.
But I want us to be prepared fora topic that we talk about.
And, and actually it probablyfelt to me like maybe we were
relying more on my expertise.
Kat (35:12):
Mm.
Val (35:13):
Doesn't always come from a flow stake cuz it's like, Oh
yeah, let me remember the fivesymptoms of X, y, Z or let me.
So I'm like, let me, let mebrush up on that.
Right?
And then, and so I think thatwas clashing with like, I just
wanna like speakextemporaneously.
I'm like well, but yeah, sureyou could do that Cuz.
Cuz if we're speaking on thetopic.
(35:33):
I've done, I've brushed up on myresearch or on my expertise.
So I felt like there was sort ofthat, that maybe a resentment
building up or like we were,that was a foundation on which
you could extemporaneously, butI was spending time making sure
I was ready.
Kat (35:52):
Yeah.
And that made you mad?
Val (35:53):
did make me mad.
It did.
and I could say it And I said,It did make me mad.
It did make me mad.
Yeah.
Kat (36:04):
You get.
I love you so much, Val I
Val (36:10):
I love you too.
You know, Can, we can tune innext time
Kat (36:15):
to
Val (36:15):
if Val can, you know, calm down.
Kat (36:20):
do the
Val (36:21):
homework, will the podcast survive those two asks?
I'm not sure.
Yeah.
And, and, and you know, addingthat to like, well, can I have
the time?
So I, I'm glad that I, cuz youknow, from our personality test,
I'm the Myers Briggs.
I'm a J in the Myers Briggs,like I wanna see a situation
label it, box it up in a nicelittle thing.
(36:43):
Oh, that's what I think aboutthat.
Or Yes, this will work.
No, this won't work.
And that feels more comfortablefor me.
And so I, I've actually reallytried to work on that cuz I'm
like, man, I don't know that,that always serves me.
Let me see if I can have thedistress tolerance to be like, I
don't know how I feel aboutthat, or I'm not sure.
And so as we were talking, as Iwas telling you, like, well,
(37:03):
what I know for sure some, maybesome other ideas of how the
podcast could continue.
Yeah.
Maybe, not every week.
Maybe we do it on the weekdays,so I don't feel like, Oh, you
know, I'm, I'm not spending timeon, on, on some of my other
business stuff or
Kat (37:21):
Right.
Yeah
Val (37:23):
other, you know, ideas of how the podcast could continue.
So I'm glad that I did leavethat space because some other
things Right.
Kat (37:34):
right.
Yeah.
And that's the thing too, like,so again, here we're sort of
showing this with you allbecause we really value
transparency and authenticity.
so a lot of you have been onthis journey with us this whole
time with the podcast.
And so we, we really did, welanded in a, in a place of
conflict, right.
And And again, not in any waymalicious, not malicious
(37:56):
conflict, Not all conflict isright.
Mm-hmm.
And so, so then the, thequestion
Val (38:00):
Well, except for when I was like, Fuck you cat.
No, no, no.
Kat (38:07):
Actually, it's funny cuz during our, like long
debriefing, before we started, Iwas like, Do you like me
Val (38:12):
No.
Kat (38:13):
I was like, you know, again, like it's, it's the
context is like I have all thisother real tender stuff.
While, you know, you and I arenavigating like smart, brilliant
grownups navigating this, thisconflict, right?
And so I got to ask for what Ineeded.
Cuz what I needed like was like,just like me please.
Like me, Like still like
Val (38:33):
Does this mean that?
Yeah.
And I do do still like you alot.
and also I think that we have aresponsibility because I, you
know, we joke about how like onon social media, we, we see
people's relationships and thenall of a sudden one day it's
just like their profilepicture's changed and the other,
they've scrubbed the otherperson.
It's like we've heard all thegood shit.
(38:54):
Like, I, I at least make astatement what happened?
Like it just feels like ghostingin kind of a different way.
Isn't that funny?
Kat (39:01):
interesting.
Yeah,
Val (39:02):
Yeah.
It does feel like ghosting
Kat (39:03):
the time.
There's all these lesbians thatare like coupling up and then,
and then it gets, it gets,there's some drama.
Val (39:10):
So I feel like No, you need to tell us what happened.
We couldn't just stop thepodcast and I don't think we
would've ever done
Kat (39:16):
that.
No.
And we love it.
We love the podcast.
We love our listeners.
Like there's a whole bunch ofyou that we, we know now that's
We love you.
Yes.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
We don't know, but this is theend of season one.
We don't know what season twomight look like.
We have some ideas and we'reapplying creativity to how we
like navigate you, centering youand me, centering me.
(39:38):
And and yeah, we might bring insome more people.
And it could be pretty fun.
Val (39:43):
So subscribe would be a great way to know when we drop
the next one.
We might just have to come onbefore or after the holidays.
Say hello.
Yeah.
Share whatever's happening.
So that's that.
And, and follow us on Instagramtoo just to kind of, we'll let
everyone know when a new episodedrops.
(40:03):
Keep in touch.
And we'll To be continued.
Kat (40:10):
be continued.
Val, I love you so much.
Val (40:16):
Thank you.
Thank you for being on thisjourney, for suggesting it in
the first And I don't know if Isaid it during before, but I, I
know it was the right
Kat (40:30):
Oh,
Val (40:32):
And of exciting
Kat (40:36):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I can't wait to come backat some point and tell you all
about my villain phase or
Val (40:44):
What's your Halloween costume?
Is it a
Kat (40:47):
Nothing.
I care about nothing right now.
Oh, my kids are doing shit.
But I like, people are invitingme to fun stuff and I'm like,
I'm sorry, I can't I like, Ican't make plans at all.
Val (40:57):
Well, cuz you told me Halloween is gay Christmas.
Kat (40:59):
Right.
And so this year I'm just like,I'm not participating in the
holidays.
Ok.
Val (41:04):
just in case you wanna make like a TikTok thirst trap from
your Hermiting cave
Kat (41:09):
Mm-hmm something.
Yeah.
I mean, if I get high, I mightdo that some night, cuz I, I
still have those impulses forsure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Val (41:15):
right.
I love you, Ka.
Thanks for today,
Kat (41:17):
Val.
I love you so much.
Val (41:19):
Bye everybody.
Kat (41:21):
Hello listener.
Thank you again for hanging outwith us this season.
Saying goodbye and at creating aseason finale was a bit
bittersweet for us, as youprobably heard.
And I just thought it'd be funto share a few like cool things
with you before we said goodbye.
Goodbye.
So our little venture ended upcreating nearly 3000 downloads
(41:44):
in 17 different countries acrossthe world.
360 cities and you, if you werewith us for the whole journey,
you heard 29 episodes thatValerie and I put out with lots
of love and care and enthusiasm.
Thank you so much for being partof this.
Please subscribe if you'd liketo be updated about when we've
(42:04):
got more for you.
Until then, good luck out there.
Humans, we're cheering for you.
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