Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Moving along, and the situation that we've covered on numerous
occasions about the funding crisis at Legal Aid is repeatedly
and reportedly threatening to bring the territories overburdened justice system
to a halt. Now the organization confirmed that they are
indeed planning to dramatically cut back critical services due to
insufficient funding. So at the time well, the service said
(00:23):
that it would refuse to accept new adult clients charged
with criminal offenses after January one, So that was a
little bit earlier this year, or a few weeks ago.
But there's been a bit of movement in this space
and the Attorney General, Marie Claire Boothby joins me on
the line. Good morning to your minister.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Good morning Katie, and to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Now, Attorney General, the situation has been a massive concern
in recent weeks. You've now announced an additional one million
dollars for the organization. Why did you make that decision?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
That's right, Katie, And this comes off the back of
a number of years in the making, unfortunately, where Legal
Aid have been having increasing demand put on them and
yet their their funding has remained the same. We met
with Legal Aid. I think we've been in government. Now
this is our Night's week. We met them with them
(01:15):
very recently and I sat down with them and heard
firsthand how they had been trying to come up with
talking to government's previous governments to be able to get
this solved, and really wanted a long term solution for
their funding challenges. Apparently there was a plan review which
got stopped, so we're going to look at that again.
(01:36):
But given that you know, we have uncovered this awful mess,
we know that we need now more than ever to
ensure justice for victims and of course offenders do need
to be given fair representation. That's why we've came up
with a one million dollars of extra funding. And I
need to be really clear. Legal Aid didn't have any
(01:56):
funding cut, but they absolutely have experienced a demand and increase.
So when we sat down, understood the challenges that they're
having and we went and found that one million dollars
extra and it really is very specifically designed and given
to Legal Aid to help manage the criminal trial case loads.
So it's very clear that we need them in our
(02:18):
courts representing people and we need to make sure that
we can ensure there's justice for those victims. Victims. I mean,
I just heard you talk about the repeat victims that
are happening, and that's you know, this is exactly why
we were elected as a government to make changes in
this space, because we want our community safe and we
want victims to have that justice.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Well absolutely, and you know, this is one of the
things that does concern me is I know for some
listening they'll be thinking, you know, they don't really care
whether legal aid is funded adequately or not. But the
flip side of that, as you've just touched on, and
as we've spoken about with various other people in recent weeks,
the flip side of that is that then things slowed
(02:56):
down within the court system if somebody doesn't have adequate
represent like had been reported by the ABC earlier in
the week. You know, there was a there's now a
delay by the look of it, to a trial, or
there's certainly you know, there's certainly been some hold ups.
So is this money going to be enough? I mean,
is the million dollars actually going to be enough or
(03:17):
is there going to realistically need to be quite a
bit more funding, And is that where the federal government
needs to step up?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
There is a lot more work to be done in
this space, Katie, And we do continue to work with
the national sorroy of the federal government on this, and
I've been speaking with the Federal Attorney General about it
because we really do need needs based funding. But like
you say, I do get the sentiment that you know,
there's a lot of care for legal aid or offenders,
(03:45):
but it's so much more than that. This is it
is truly about making sure that the victims have justice.
There is nothing worse than being a victim of crime
and they're not knowing what's going on with that case,
and if it drags on and on or at worse,
these people can't be read, presented and it just goes nowhere,
then of course those victims are and they never feel
that justice that it really hinders their recovery. And we
(04:08):
just can't see that continuing to happen.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So where are the discussions out with the federal government.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
There's a new partnership which is going, like we're working
through all those details now because the existing partnership is
about to expire. So there's a lot of work in
that space happening, and obviously we'll have more to talk
about that, but we do still need to continue to
advocate for needs based funding. I mean, the problem with
some of these situations is there's never enough money, so
(04:35):
we have to look even more deeply about things that
are having the system, making changes to ensure that we
can deal with this sort of demand. And of course
it's a whole you know, we're looking at every angle.
We've just been in government for nine weeks. We've made
lots of changes that territories expected us to make, and
of course that work continues.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
But I guess have any idea when that new partnership,
when the details of that might be finalized.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, it's happening in the next couple of weeks, so
I can definitely come back on and share with your
listeners what's going on with you. But I wanted to
make it really clear to your listeners today that's you know,
legal aid. It is a big problem that we've been facing.
It has the territory has been facing it for a
couple of years. And as soon as we found out,
you know, we did act very quickly on this. Like
one of the things that we've done since coming into
a government is we've we've found those problems have been
(05:21):
identified and we act very quickly to make sure that
we can address the issues because we can't keep going
down the same track that we were going down on
and you know, having victims being assured that they have
an opportunity for justice and the offenders are going to
be having one fair representation that to you dealt with
in the way that the laws need to deal with them.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
People have had an absolute gutfull There is no doubt
about that. I guess the concern at the moment. And
as you say, you know, this is not something that's
happened overnight. This is something that you've inherited, so I
want to be quite clear about that. But it is
being reported and it was earlier in the week and
I touched on this a moment ago. The ABC was
reporting that a man who appeared in the Northern Territory
Supreme Court in Darwin charged with serious offenses was released
(06:05):
on bail, partly due to uncertainty around whether his trial
could proceed now. The allegations involved domestic violence related defenses
and one count of aggravated robbery, which carries a maximum
sentence of life prison. Now he was unable to afford
his own lawyer. The man had previously been receiving legal
aid representation from a private criminal law firm under an
(06:28):
arrangement which had been funded by NT Legal Aid. Now,
according to the report by Samantha Dick at the ABC,
the accused had previously been denied bail due to the
close proximity of his proposed address to the complainant's residents,
the court had heard. However, Justice Blocklin said the ongoing
uncertainty at legal Aid, combined with other factors such as
(06:50):
the defendant securing a new address and agreeing to comply
with strict bail conditions, had influenced her decision to ultimately
grant him bail. Now, I'm not asking you to comment
on this case specifically, I suppose, but what I suppose
I'm asking for is, you know, are we in a
situation right now in the Northern Territory. We're due to
(07:12):
a lack of funding over quite a long period of
time and a breakdown in different ways within the system,
that we are going to see people who should potentially
still be remanded in custody out on bail because there's
not another option.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
That is exactly why when this was uncovered that we
acted quickly to find this extra one million dollars from
within the existing budget because we needed to make sure
that this doesn't continue to happen. I mean, as you say,
it's it's been a long time, long time coming, long
time problem, and you know, we need to make sure
that we address this. It's this is a short term
(07:50):
solution for the now, but that long term solution also
is why that is so important, because we cannot continue
to have you know, victims worried about what's going to happen, Yeah,
when their offenders are either not dealt with quickly or
as you say, back out in bail. Which is why
you know, we've just been head to humpum up to
(08:10):
be Frank Katie in the last nine weeks finding solutions
to every problem that we come across like that. Literally
at the moment, we're in the business of finding these
solutions and I guessing really swift action on it.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Well, and you know this area, and in fact, your
role as the Attorney General is going to be an
incredibly pivotal one because even you know, at the moment,
we've obviously discussed you know, the funding with legal Abe,
we've discussed that situation that I just touched on with
that case earlier in the week. But we also know
that we've got around forty percent of prisoners in our
(08:41):
corrections facilities that are actually on remand which indicates that
the court process is going quite slowly in a lot
of ways, and there's various reasons for that. Is that
something that you've had discussions with, you know, with those
in the system about attorney general and how worry is
that side of things?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yes, Katie, that is it is worrying. As Attorney General,
I am very concerned with this and as this information
comes to me and we're working through all of these issues,
I do get more concerned, and which is why it's
so pressing that we have these solutions, like as an example,
that the extra one million dollars for legal aid. But
if you think about, you know, the Attorney General's role,
(09:23):
we sort of I'm the meat business sandwich between police
and corrections, and you know, my role, I'm squarely focused
on ensuring that victims have justice and there's a lot
of work to be done. That is the absolute truth
with our court system, with the way that the system
actually interacts with police and with corrections. But I mean
that is why we've you know, well, while we're here
(09:45):
doing what we do. Territorians wanted change. They want to
change not only in police but in corrections, but also
in our court system, and that is why we're going
through every little aspect of it to try and find
ways that we can ensure that it's sped up. And again,
like I say, it's about getting justice for the victims.
Crime is the number one issue in the territory and
(10:06):
there's a lot of work being done in all of
those spaces with police, with corrections and of course also
in the Attorney General's areas to make sure that courts
run as smoothly as they possibly can.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Absolutely, now speaking of that justice for victims, I mean
we just caught up with the Northern Territory Police and
Strikeforce Tried and Style Maltabarna just talked us through some
of the numbers when it comes to the offending that
they've been dealing with. Just since the beginning of this
financial year. You know, we've got five hundred and thirteen
(10:37):
prosecution files that have gone forward. Two hundred and eighty
three of those were youths. One hundred and thirty four
of those two hundred and eighty three youths were on bail.
I mean what's it like for you as the Attorney
General when you hear.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
That, Oh, look, those figures are exactly what territories talk
to me about how they're feeling like. It is no secret.
I mean, we've had eight long, awful years under a
previous labor government where you know, they felt let down
by everyone, and those numbers it's a result of what's happened.
(11:17):
You know, we had a government that was just on
an ideological path and not willing to make the hard decisions,
to make the changes to try and make the territory
a safe place. And in nine short weeks, you know,
we've done so much more than we saw the previous
government do over two terms. Because that those numbers, Kadie,
they're just unacceptable, and you know that's why we've been
(11:40):
working the way we are because we don't accept those numbers.
We don't accept that after eight long years of dealing
with this which was never dealt with, that we want
to continue along that path.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Attorney General wandering, do you accept that there are some
people in the community who feel as though the court
system and you know in some cases that they are
being let down through that court system, and there's you know,
offenders are being granted by al when they shouldn't be.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
There's certainly been the case over the last eight years, Katie.
I mean, like we've said this, this hasn't come up overnight.
It's been going on for a very long time. And
from my understanding of meetings that I've had, you know,
these issues have been raised with the governments for a
very long time, especially over the last eight years. So
it's not new. It is a mess that we as
a new government being here now for nine weeks, we
(12:30):
have to clean up this mess. It was a mess
of it's taken eight years to create and it's you know,
it's going to take some time to make sure we
can get the right measures in place. But I mean
right now, we've demonstrated that we were acting very quickly.
We came to Parliament in those first two weeks, like
we promised Terra Turrency would, and like they expect that,
we passed a rust of laws to ensure that community
(12:51):
safety is the number one priority and to try and
make these changes. And then of course the court systems
that you know help. We're through the system to have
justice for victims. I mean, that's why we're giving the
one million dollars extra of legal aid funding because those
criminal caseloads absolutely need to be dealt with, and unfortunately
(13:12):
it took a long time eight years to now come
to a new government to start to look at the
steps to resolve it.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Well, Marie Claire Boothby, you are going to be a
very busy woman, there is no doubt about that. I
really appreciate you taking the time to have a chat
with us this morning, and we'll talk to you again
very soon.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Thank you, Katie, and thank you, thanks so much.
Moving along, and the situation that we've covered on numerous
occasions about the funding crisis at Legal Aid is repeatedly
and reportedly threatening to bring the territories overburdened justice system
to a halt. Now the organization confirmed that they are
indeed planning to dramatically cut back critical services due to
insufficient funding. So at the time well, the service said
(00:23):
that it would refuse to accept new adult clients charged
with criminal offenses after January one, So that was a
little bit earlier this year, or a few weeks ago.
But there's been a bit of movement in this space
and the Attorney General, Marie Claire Boothby joins me on
the line. Good morning to your minister.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Good morning Katie, and to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Now, Attorney General, the situation has been a massive concern
in recent weeks. You've now announced an additional one million
dollars for the organization. Why did you make that decision?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
That's right, Katie, And this comes off the back of
a number of years in the making, unfortunately, where Legal
Aid have been having increasing demand put on them and
yet their their funding has remained the same. We met
with Legal Aid. I think we've been in government. Now
this is our Night's week. We met them with them
(01:15):
very recently and I sat down with them and heard
firsthand how they had been trying to come up with
talking to government's previous governments to be able to get
this solved, and really wanted a long term solution for
their funding challenges. Apparently there was a plan review which
got stopped, so we're going to look at that again.
(01:36):
But given that you know, we have uncovered this awful mess,
we know that we need now more than ever to
ensure justice for victims and of course offenders do need
to be given fair representation. That's why we've came up
with a one million dollars of extra funding. And I
need to be really clear. Legal Aid didn't have any
(01:56):
funding cut, but they absolutely have experienced a demand and increase.
So when we sat down, understood the challenges that they're
having and we went and found that one million dollars
extra and it really is very specifically designed and given
to Legal Aid to help manage the criminal trial case loads.
So it's very clear that we need them in our
(02:18):
courts representing people and we need to make sure that
we can ensure there's justice for those victims. Victims. I mean,
I just heard you talk about the repeat victims that
are happening, and that's you know, this is exactly why
we were elected as a government to make changes in
this space, because we want our community safe and we
want victims to have that justice.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Well absolutely, and you know, this is one of the
things that does concern me is I know for some
listening they'll be thinking, you know, they don't really care
whether legal aid is funded adequately or not. But the
flip side of that, as you've just touched on, and
as we've spoken about with various other people in recent weeks,
the flip side of that is that then things slowed
(02:56):
down within the court system if somebody doesn't have adequate
represent like had been reported by the ABC earlier in
the week. You know, there was a there's now a
delay by the look of it, to a trial, or
there's certainly you know, there's certainly been some hold ups.
So is this money going to be enough? I mean,
is the million dollars actually going to be enough or
(03:17):
is there going to realistically need to be quite a
bit more funding, And is that where the federal government
needs to step up?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
There is a lot more work to be done in
this space, Katie, And we do continue to work with
the national sorroy of the federal government on this, and
I've been speaking with the Federal Attorney General about it
because we really do need needs based funding. But like
you say, I do get the sentiment that you know,
there's a lot of care for legal aid or offenders,
(03:45):
but it's so much more than that. This is it
is truly about making sure that the victims have justice.
There is nothing worse than being a victim of crime
and they're not knowing what's going on with that case,
and if it drags on and on or at worse,
these people can't be read, presented and it just goes nowhere,
then of course those victims are and they never feel
that justice that it really hinders their recovery. And we
(04:08):
just can't see that continuing to happen.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So where are the discussions out with the federal government.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
There's a new partnership which is going, like we're working
through all those details now because the existing partnership is
about to expire. So there's a lot of work in
that space happening, and obviously we'll have more to talk
about that, but we do still need to continue to
advocate for needs based funding. I mean, the problem with
some of these situations is there's never enough money, so
(04:35):
we have to look even more deeply about things that
are having the system, making changes to ensure that we
can deal with this sort of demand. And of course
it's a whole you know, we're looking at every angle.
We've just been in government for nine weeks. We've made
lots of changes that territories expected us to make, and
of course that work continues.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
But I guess have any idea when that new partnership,
when the details of that might be finalized.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, it's happening in the next couple of weeks, so
I can definitely come back on and share with your
listeners what's going on with you. But I wanted to
make it really clear to your listeners today that's you know,
legal aid. It is a big problem that we've been facing.
It has the territory has been facing it for a
couple of years. And as soon as we found out,
you know, we did act very quickly on this. Like
one of the things that we've done since coming into
a government is we've we've found those problems have been
(05:21):
identified and we act very quickly to make sure that
we can address the issues because we can't keep going
down the same track that we were going down on
and you know, having victims being assured that they have
an opportunity for justice and the offenders are going to
be having one fair representation that to you dealt with
in the way that the laws need to deal with them.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
People have had an absolute gutfull There is no doubt
about that. I guess the concern at the moment. And
as you say, you know, this is not something that's
happened overnight. This is something that you've inherited, so I
want to be quite clear about that. But it is
being reported and it was earlier in the week and
I touched on this a moment ago. The ABC was
reporting that a man who appeared in the Northern Territory
Supreme Court in Darwin charged with serious offenses was released
(06:05):
on bail, partly due to uncertainty around whether his trial
could proceed now. The allegations involved domestic violence related defenses
and one count of aggravated robbery, which carries a maximum
sentence of life prison. Now he was unable to afford
his own lawyer. The man had previously been receiving legal
aid representation from a private criminal law firm under an
(06:28):
arrangement which had been funded by NT Legal Aid. Now,
according to the report by Samantha Dick at the ABC,
the accused had previously been denied bail due to the
close proximity of his proposed address to the complainant's residents,
the court had heard. However, Justice Blocklin said the ongoing
uncertainty at legal Aid, combined with other factors such as
(06:50):
the defendant securing a new address and agreeing to comply
with strict bail conditions, had influenced her decision to ultimately
grant him bail. Now, I'm not asking you to comment
on this case specifically, I suppose, but what I suppose
I'm asking for is, you know, are we in a
situation right now in the Northern Territory. We're due to
(07:12):
a lack of funding over quite a long period of
time and a breakdown in different ways within the system,
that we are going to see people who should potentially
still be remanded in custody out on bail because there's
not another option.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
That is exactly why when this was uncovered that we
acted quickly to find this extra one million dollars from
within the existing budget because we needed to make sure
that this doesn't continue to happen. I mean, as you say,
it's it's been a long time, long time coming, long
time problem, and you know, we need to make sure
that we address this. It's this is a short term
(07:50):
solution for the now, but that long term solution also
is why that is so important, because we cannot continue
to have you know, victims worried about what's going to happen, Yeah,
when their offenders are either not dealt with quickly or
as you say, back out in bail. Which is why
you know, we've just been head to humpum up to
(08:10):
be Frank Katie in the last nine weeks finding solutions
to every problem that we come across like that. Literally
at the moment, we're in the business of finding these
solutions and I guessing really swift action on it.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Well, and you know this area, and in fact, your
role as the Attorney General is going to be an
incredibly pivotal one because even you know, at the moment,
we've obviously discussed you know, the funding with legal Abe,
we've discussed that situation that I just touched on with
that case earlier in the week. But we also know
that we've got around forty percent of prisoners in our
(08:41):
corrections facilities that are actually on remand which indicates that
the court process is going quite slowly in a lot
of ways, and there's various reasons for that. Is that
something that you've had discussions with, you know, with those
in the system about attorney general and how worry is
that side of things?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yes, Katie, that is it is worrying. As Attorney General,
I am very concerned with this and as this information
comes to me and we're working through all of these issues,
I do get more concerned, and which is why it's
so pressing that we have these solutions, like as an example,
that the extra one million dollars for legal aid. But
if you think about, you know, the Attorney General's role,
(09:23):
we sort of I'm the meat business sandwich between police
and corrections, and you know, my role, I'm squarely focused
on ensuring that victims have justice and there's a lot
of work to be done. That is the absolute truth
with our court system, with the way that the system
actually interacts with police and with corrections. But I mean
that is why we've you know, well, while we're here
(09:45):
doing what we do. Territorians wanted change. They want to
change not only in police but in corrections, but also
in our court system, and that is why we're going
through every little aspect of it to try and find
ways that we can ensure that it's sped up. And again,
like I say, it's about getting justice for the victims.
Crime is the number one issue in the territory and
(10:06):
there's a lot of work being done in all of
those spaces with police, with corrections and of course also
in the Attorney General's areas to make sure that courts
run as smoothly as they possibly can.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Absolutely, now speaking of that justice for victims, I mean
we just caught up with the Northern Territory Police and
Strikeforce Tried and Style Maltabarna just talked us through some
of the numbers when it comes to the offending that
they've been dealing with. Just since the beginning of this
financial year. You know, we've got five hundred and thirteen
(10:37):
prosecution files that have gone forward. Two hundred and eighty
three of those were youths. One hundred and thirty four
of those two hundred and eighty three youths were on bail.
I mean what's it like for you as the Attorney
General when you hear.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
That, Oh, look, those figures are exactly what territories talk
to me about how they're feeling like. It is no secret.
I mean, we've had eight long, awful years under a
previous labor government where you know, they felt let down
by everyone, and those numbers it's a result of what's happened.
(11:17):
You know, we had a government that was just on
an ideological path and not willing to make the hard decisions,
to make the changes to try and make the territory
a safe place. And in nine short weeks, you know,
we've done so much more than we saw the previous
government do over two terms. Because that those numbers, Kadie,
they're just unacceptable, and you know that's why we've been
(11:40):
working the way we are because we don't accept those numbers.
We don't accept that after eight long years of dealing
with this which was never dealt with, that we want
to continue along that path.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Attorney General wandering, do you accept that there are some
people in the community who feel as though the court
system and you know in some cases that they are
being let down through that court system, and there's you know,
offenders are being granted by al when they shouldn't be.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
There's certainly been the case over the last eight years, Katie.
I mean, like we've said this, this hasn't come up overnight.
It's been going on for a very long time. And
from my understanding of meetings that I've had, you know,
these issues have been raised with the governments for a
very long time, especially over the last eight years. So
it's not new. It is a mess that we as
a new government being here now for nine weeks, we
(12:30):
have to clean up this mess. It was a mess
of it's taken eight years to create and it's you know,
it's going to take some time to make sure we
can get the right measures in place. But I mean
right now, we've demonstrated that we were acting very quickly.
We came to Parliament in those first two weeks, like
we promised Terra Turrency would, and like they expect that,
we passed a rust of laws to ensure that community
(12:51):
safety is the number one priority and to try and
make these changes. And then of course the court systems
that you know help. We're through the system to have
justice for victims. I mean, that's why we're giving the
one million dollars extra of legal aid funding because those
criminal caseloads absolutely need to be dealt with, and unfortunately
(13:12):
it took a long time eight years to now come
to a new government to start to look at the
steps to resolve it.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Well, Marie Claire Boothby, you are going to be a
very busy woman, there is no doubt about that. I
really appreciate you taking the time to have a chat
with us this morning, and we'll talk to you again
very soon.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Thank you, Katie, and thank you, thanks so much.
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