Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Territorians who enjoy a drink. Well, you might have noticed
that the price of grog's gone up a bit recently,
and it's due to an increase in the Federal government's
alcohol excise, which took effect on the first of August. Now,
this hidden tax has gone up, goes up about every
six months by the look of it for the last
thirty five years, hitting pub goers in the hip pockets,
and the industry is calling for a reduction to the
(00:21):
beer tax. Now joining us in the studio is the
Australian Hotels Association and national CEO Stephen Ferguson. Good morning
to you, Stephen, Katie. Great to be here in Darwin.
Good to see you enjoying the beautiful weather. It's been
a little bit warm. You missed out like about a
week or two ago it was slightly cooler.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I have no complaints from anyone up here about the warm.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
No, I bet you haven't. Now tell me in terms
of the tax, how much extra are people now paying
when it comes to this tax hike.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Well, it's a really ingenious tax, Katie, because what it
is is a small amount across a massive broad base.
So in context, the current revenue from government is about
seven billion dollars. Over the next four years that will
increase to eight billion, which is another billion dollars out
of partners' pockets. Now to put it in context, and
probably the worst part of the taxes on say a
bottle of Bundy rum or your favorite gin. On a
(01:15):
sixty dollars bottle of rum or gin, thirty eight dollars
goes in tax to the government. That's two thirds goes
in tax to the government. Beer is far Beer is
far less, but still what drives people mad, I think
is that it's a hidden tax.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
It's basically a tax on hospitality. It's a tax on jobs.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
And what we're asking the government to do, as it
relates to on premise so pubs, clubs and restaurants, is
to give us a significant reduction there. We're asking for
forty percent just so we can take that cost away.
Hoteliers and restauranteurs manage cost the best they can, but
they can do what they can to control their own
interest costs that they pay, guard against inflation, energy costs
(01:54):
and whatever. But the cost that in the drink that
the government controls is the cost of excise and the
government you've been doing it for thirty years, start telling
the truth, start owning up to its start owning the issue.
And you know this is the one cost in a
beer or a Roman cake that is down to you.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Give the part to you.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Why are they you know, what are they saying to
the industry in terms of why they need to have
that tax or why it keeps going up.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
They're listening, all famous, they're listening, but you know, you
never I always joke that, you know, if you see
that it if a government goes and paints a park bench,
well you'll have a politician in front nodding furiously away,
with twenty knighting heads behind them, you know, which for
something that's relatively minor. But when they're about to rip
(02:41):
another billion dollars out of partners pockets crickets, you don't
see them for anywhere. You're never seen an announcement from
government about them going to increase tax. Both sides of parliament,
both the left and right, Labor and the Coalition always say,
you know, we're the part of lower taxes. Well, when
it comes to having a beer in a pub.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And I suppose I'm trying to play devil's advocate here,
you know they might say, well, the reason the tax
goes up is because that alcohol issuse can have an
impact then on the health system, and you know that's
why they need that additional the additional tax money coming in.
I mean, what do you say to that?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Extremely valid and we're not arguing that.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
What we're saying though, is that as about about twenty
percent of liquor is sold in pubs, clubs and restaurants,
eighty percent three bottle shops. It's generally cheap for anyway,
but to pour a beer or a whiskey into a
glass in a pub or a club or a restaurant
takes labor. And we're saying it's that portion that we're
saying you can decrease. Now you know it's going to
be it's seven billion at the moment. All we're asking
(03:39):
is probably worth about a couple of hundred million just
to take that pain point away and really to get
them to own up that this is a cost that
they impose and start being upfront of it.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Well. And the fact is, you know, we need workforce
in these industries as well. I know that in some locations,
the likes of the Northern Territory, for example, it may
be that some of those positions are hard to fill.
The cost of livings going up, the cost of every
things going up, and people going out to pubs and
clubs and restaurants because they don't have that disposable income
like they once had in the past. It's maybe not
(04:09):
as you know, they're may be not spending as much
when they do go up.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
First, I mean, there's a whole range of drivers as
well as excise. It puts the price up, you know,
as I said, it's inflation, interest, energy costs. All those
things are contributing to the cost of food. Basically, it's
all the barley and whatever that goes into the price
for beer. All those costs are increasing. But this is
the one cost that the government's control. And more importantly,
(04:33):
one of the funny sort of anomalies of it is
is that excise gets taxed when the keg of beer
leaves the brewery gate, but that tax then sits there
with GST over the top. So what we end up
with is we get GST on a tax. So it's
a tax on a tax, and it's simple things like that.
We're saying they both both sides of government. This has
been going for thirty years you know, we're a bit sick.
(04:54):
If you're saying that, you're listening, it's time that they
did something about it, because.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
The punters are aware and heading into an election.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Does it have an impact on the workforce.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Absolutely well.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
More importantly, we were talking about security before, the poor
people that cop it. Every time the price of a
beer goes up, as the person behind the bar and
that's either the publican or the boy or the girl
serving the drink when the locals come in and say,
oh gee, you've whacked up the price, and it's most
often exercise is a driver. And once again there's just
(05:28):
lack of action from government and addressing this issue. And
if they say they're the party of lower taxes, if
they're feeding about cost of living, here's the one cost
that they can control and we're asked them to do
something about it.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Stephen, you're in Darwin obviously for lots of meetings this week.
What are you hearing from operators around the place?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Oh, look, I mean I think the hotels are full
at the moment. They're telling us that the season started
here a bit late in the dry we're staying in town.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
There's absolutely choc A block full of people.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
So there's people out and about, but anyone that's flown
here from down South it's twelve hundred bucks for an
economy airfare. Now that's crazy. That's driven by the airlines.
It's also driven by airport landing costs. Once again, there's
a whole heap of factors that go to that. But
if you're sitting in Sydney or Melbourne or Adelaide and
looking say, oh white headed north to Darwin and go
(06:15):
and look at the territory and you go, wow, twenty
four hundred bucks return for economy, you can probably fly
the family to Bali or Vietnam.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
That's the thing. Yeah, that's the thing. It's so expensive
to get here at this at the moment.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, so that's a really limiting factor.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
We've got the Accommodation Association Accommodation in Australia we work
closely with. Fortunately we're just in We've got a new
CEO who used to work for the airport's corporation. He's
really across all issues to do with flights and airports.
So I think he's someone that we're going to be
able to really sort of This will be something that
he tries to get his teeth into.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, I'll be keen to find out more because it
is something we talk a lot about in the Northern Territory,
the cost of flights, not only for tourism, but also
for connectivity. Right Like, if you live here and you
want to be able to travel away to see your
family or bring your family here. Their tourists too once
they get to once they get here, they send their money.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
I'm going out to the bid Food debay this morning
and bid Food and one of the big supplies to
the hospitality industry up here, and I'm keen to talk
to them about the costs that they have in trying
to get food into the territory.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah. I think it's a good point. Hey, in terms
of some of the issues that we've got locally, I
mean security guards at bottle shops, we know that that's
something that we see quite regularly here in the NT.
It's no you know, it's no surprise to anybody that
we've had a lot of issues when it comes to
some of our takeaway outlets being targeted in things like
ram raids and also people just sort of turning up
(07:39):
and you know, stealing alcohol. It's I'm sure that it's
something that's been discussed with you as you do head
around speaking to different retailers.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Absolutely, Look, I think the problem plays out most commonly
and this is just anecdotally for me sort of in
the northern parts of Australia.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
It is.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
It is, It is visible and on the ground in
the cities. But the stories you hear, I mean there's
been really upsetting incidents in Darwin. I think the northern
territories probably taking is leading the charge and what the
governments are about and the opposition because I think it's
both both sides are together on this. The security of
staff and patrons is paramount and they're enabling bottle shops
(08:22):
especially and hotels to do what they can to protect themselves.
You see that the bottle shops here there are a
very different environment to what you see down south. But
we understand that a lot of the big liquor operators
looking to say, well, okay, if you're putting perspex boxes
in Darwin works, they need to look at rolling it
out down south. I think that the NT is probably
(08:43):
the point edge of the wedge, but what they're learning
up here they'll take back and implement, as I say,
to keep staff and patron.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Safe In terms of some of the different legislation that
we've got in the Northern Territory, I mean things like
the BDRE, how does it stack up to other stuff?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Once again, I think the nts at the point of end.
So you don't have BDRs. I think, say in Western
Australia would both the Tropic of Capricorn in the cities
in the Southern States and you don't have you know,
but it's a tool that you need and state governments
are very very good at sharing information and often they
come up with different solutions. But all these, all the
(09:23):
different mechanisms that are put in place in places like
Darwin or the NT are often taken back down south.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
And effect does it make it in terms of some
of the discussions that you have, I suppose with local businesses,
does it make it more difficult do you think sometimes
to do business in the Northern Territory maybe than what
it is in other states?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Well, I think if you look at the cost that
has to go into security, whether this is your local growsing,
whether it's your bottle shop, your butcher, whoever, I think
the security costs in the NT would be far greater
than what you'd see down south. I think that's the
that's the biggest thing. And staff training, and I think
there's and the anxiety. I mean all these business many
of these businesses are run by families themselves, and for
them to sit around, they worry about their staff and
(10:02):
they worry about the safety of their staff.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
And I think that's a big driver.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
It's not only the cost, it's the anxiety for staff
and the business owners who want everyone to go home
safe at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah, it's a big week for you guys. By the
sounds of it. You've got plenty of people here as well.
You've brought along your friends.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, well, we've got about sixty people up here. We've
got our National Board, we've got all our supplies, we've
got the CEOs of Lion Biers, cub Diagio, Treasury Wine.
We've had great engagement with both sides of government up here.
We've caught up with Eva Laula, Joel Bowden, Brent Potter,
Leah Fanocciaio, Claire Birthby and on the federal sphere. Just
(10:39):
send a name of timber Price and Luke Goslink. So
everyone's given us a great hearing and I've got to
say on issues when it's relating to security of staff
and patrons.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Everyone's on the same page.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
I just love it if they'd all stopped listening about
excise and actually do something about it.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
We're waiting, see, we're waiting, so Stephen Lovely to speak
to you this morning. I really appreciate you coming into
the studio and uh and we'll see you next time
you're in Darwin.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
And good luck getting an NFL time.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Thank you,
Territorians who enjoy a drink. Well, you might have noticed
that the price of grog's gone up a bit recently,
and it's due to an increase in the Federal government's
alcohol excise, which took effect on the first of August. Now,
this hidden tax has gone up, goes up about every
six months by the look of it for the last
thirty five years, hitting pub goers in the hip pockets,
and the industry is calling for a reduction to the
(00:21):
beer tax. Now joining us in the studio is the
Australian Hotels Association and national CEO Stephen Ferguson. Good morning
to you, Stephen, Katie. Great to be here in Darwin.
Good to see you enjoying the beautiful weather. It's been
a little bit warm. You missed out like about a
week or two ago it was slightly cooler.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I have no complaints from anyone up here about the warm.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
No, I bet you haven't. Now tell me in terms
of the tax, how much extra are people now paying
when it comes to this tax hike.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Well, it's a really ingenious tax, Katie, because what it
is is a small amount across a massive broad base.
So in context, the current revenue from government is about
seven billion dollars. Over the next four years that will
increase to eight billion, which is another billion dollars out
of partners' pockets. Now to put it in context, and
probably the worst part of the taxes on say a
bottle of Bundy rum or your favorite gin. On a
(01:15):
sixty dollars bottle of rum or gin, thirty eight dollars
goes in tax to the government. That's two thirds goes
in tax to the government. Beer is far Beer is
far less, but still what drives people mad, I think
is that it's a hidden tax.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
It's basically a tax on hospitality. It's a tax on jobs.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
And what we're asking the government to do, as it
relates to on premise so pubs, clubs and restaurants, is
to give us a significant reduction there. We're asking for
forty percent just so we can take that cost away.
Hoteliers and restauranteurs manage cost the best they can, but
they can do what they can to control their own
interest costs that they pay, guard against inflation, energy costs
(01:54):
and whatever. But the cost that in the drink that
the government controls is the cost of excise and the
government you've been doing it for thirty years, start telling
the truth, start owning up to its start owning the issue.
And you know this is the one cost in a
beer or a Roman cake that is down to you.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Give the part to you.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Why are they you know, what are they saying to
the industry in terms of why they need to have
that tax or why it keeps going up.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
They're listening, all famous, they're listening, but you know, you
never I always joke that, you know, if you see
that it if a government goes and paints a park bench,
well you'll have a politician in front nodding furiously away,
with twenty knighting heads behind them, you know, which for
something that's relatively minor. But when they're about to rip
(02:41):
another billion dollars out of partners pockets crickets, you don't
see them for anywhere. You're never seen an announcement from
government about them going to increase tax. Both sides of parliament,
both the left and right, Labor and the Coalition always say,
you know, we're the part of lower taxes. Well, when
it comes to having a beer in a pub.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And I suppose I'm trying to play devil's advocate here,
you know they might say, well, the reason the tax
goes up is because that alcohol issuse can have an
impact then on the health system, and you know that's
why they need that additional the additional tax money coming in.
I mean, what do you say to that?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Extremely valid and we're not arguing that.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
What we're saying though, is that as about about twenty
percent of liquor is sold in pubs, clubs and restaurants,
eighty percent three bottle shops. It's generally cheap for anyway,
but to pour a beer or a whiskey into a
glass in a pub or a club or a restaurant
takes labor. And we're saying it's that portion that we're
saying you can decrease. Now you know it's going to
be it's seven billion at the moment. All we're asking
(03:39):
is probably worth about a couple of hundred million just
to take that pain point away and really to get
them to own up that this is a cost that
they impose and start being upfront of it.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Well. And the fact is, you know, we need workforce
in these industries as well. I know that in some locations,
the likes of the Northern Territory, for example, it may
be that some of those positions are hard to fill.
The cost of livings going up, the cost of every
things going up, and people going out to pubs and
clubs and restaurants because they don't have that disposable income
like they once had in the past. It's maybe not
(04:09):
as you know, they're may be not spending as much
when they do go up.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
First, I mean, there's a whole range of drivers as
well as excise. It puts the price up, you know,
as I said, it's inflation, interest, energy costs. All those
things are contributing to the cost of food. Basically, it's
all the barley and whatever that goes into the price
for beer. All those costs are increasing. But this is
the one cost that the government's control. And more importantly,
(04:33):
one of the funny sort of anomalies of it is
is that excise gets taxed when the keg of beer
leaves the brewery gate, but that tax then sits there
with GST over the top. So what we end up
with is we get GST on a tax. So it's
a tax on a tax, and it's simple things like that.
We're saying they both both sides of government. This has
been going for thirty years you know, we're a bit sick.
(04:54):
If you're saying that, you're listening, it's time that they
did something about it, because.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
The punters are aware and heading into an election.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Does it have an impact on the workforce.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Absolutely well.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
More importantly, we were talking about security before, the poor
people that cop it. Every time the price of a
beer goes up, as the person behind the bar and
that's either the publican or the boy or the girl
serving the drink when the locals come in and say,
oh gee, you've whacked up the price, and it's most
often exercise is a driver. And once again there's just
(05:28):
lack of action from government and addressing this issue. And
if they say they're the party of lower taxes, if
they're feeding about cost of living, here's the one cost
that they can control and we're asked them to do
something about it.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Stephen, you're in Darwin obviously for lots of meetings this week.
What are you hearing from operators around the place?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Oh, look, I mean I think the hotels are full
at the moment. They're telling us that the season started
here a bit late in the dry we're staying in town.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
There's absolutely choc A block full of people.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
So there's people out and about, but anyone that's flown
here from down South it's twelve hundred bucks for an
economy airfare. Now that's crazy. That's driven by the airlines.
It's also driven by airport landing costs. Once again, there's
a whole heap of factors that go to that. But
if you're sitting in Sydney or Melbourne or Adelaide and
looking say, oh white headed north to Darwin and go
(06:15):
and look at the territory and you go, wow, twenty
four hundred bucks return for economy, you can probably fly
the family to Bali or Vietnam.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
That's the thing. Yeah, that's the thing. It's so expensive
to get here at this at the moment.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, so that's a really limiting factor.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
We've got the Accommodation Association Accommodation in Australia we work
closely with. Fortunately we're just in We've got a new
CEO who used to work for the airport's corporation. He's
really across all issues to do with flights and airports.
So I think he's someone that we're going to be
able to really sort of This will be something that
he tries to get his teeth into.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, I'll be keen to find out more because it
is something we talk a lot about in the Northern Territory,
the cost of flights, not only for tourism, but also
for connectivity. Right Like, if you live here and you
want to be able to travel away to see your
family or bring your family here. Their tourists too once
they get to once they get here, they send their money.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
I'm going out to the bid Food debay this morning
and bid Food and one of the big supplies to
the hospitality industry up here, and I'm keen to talk
to them about the costs that they have in trying
to get food into the territory.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah. I think it's a good point. Hey, in terms
of some of the issues that we've got locally, I
mean security guards at bottle shops, we know that that's
something that we see quite regularly here in the NT.
It's no you know, it's no surprise to anybody that
we've had a lot of issues when it comes to
some of our takeaway outlets being targeted in things like
ram raids and also people just sort of turning up
(07:39):
and you know, stealing alcohol. It's I'm sure that it's
something that's been discussed with you as you do head
around speaking to different retailers.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Absolutely, Look, I think the problem plays out most commonly
and this is just anecdotally for me sort of in
the northern parts of Australia.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
It is.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
It is, It is visible and on the ground in
the cities. But the stories you hear, I mean there's
been really upsetting incidents in Darwin. I think the northern
territories probably taking is leading the charge and what the
governments are about and the opposition because I think it's
both both sides are together on this. The security of
staff and patrons is paramount and they're enabling bottle shops
(08:22):
especially and hotels to do what they can to protect themselves.
You see that the bottle shops here there are a
very different environment to what you see down south. But
we understand that a lot of the big liquor operators
looking to say, well, okay, if you're putting perspex boxes
in Darwin works, they need to look at rolling it
out down south. I think that the NT is probably
(08:43):
the point edge of the wedge, but what they're learning
up here they'll take back and implement, as I say,
to keep staff and patron.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Safe In terms of some of the different legislation that
we've got in the Northern Territory, I mean things like
the BDRE, how does it stack up to other stuff?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Once again, I think the nts at the point of end.
So you don't have BDRs. I think, say in Western
Australia would both the Tropic of Capricorn in the cities
in the Southern States and you don't have you know,
but it's a tool that you need and state governments
are very very good at sharing information and often they
come up with different solutions. But all these, all the
(09:23):
different mechanisms that are put in place in places like
Darwin or the NT are often taken back down south.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
And effect does it make it in terms of some
of the discussions that you have, I suppose with local businesses,
does it make it more difficult do you think sometimes
to do business in the Northern Territory maybe than what
it is in other states?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Well, I think if you look at the cost that
has to go into security, whether this is your local growsing,
whether it's your bottle shop, your butcher, whoever, I think
the security costs in the NT would be far greater
than what you'd see down south. I think that's the
that's the biggest thing. And staff training, and I think
there's and the anxiety. I mean all these business many
of these businesses are run by families themselves, and for
them to sit around, they worry about their staff and
(10:02):
they worry about the safety of their staff.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
And I think that's a big driver.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
It's not only the cost, it's the anxiety for staff
and the business owners who want everyone to go home
safe at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah, it's a big week for you guys. By the
sounds of it. You've got plenty of people here as well.
You've brought along your friends.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, well, we've got about sixty people up here. We've
got our National Board, we've got all our supplies, we've
got the CEOs of Lion Biers, cub Diagio, Treasury Wine.
We've had great engagement with both sides of government up here.
We've caught up with Eva Laula, Joel Bowden, Brent Potter,
Leah Fanocciaio, Claire Birthby and on the federal sphere. Just
(10:39):
send a name of timber Price and Luke Goslink. So
everyone's given us a great hearing and I've got to
say on issues when it's relating to security of staff
and patrons.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Everyone's on the same page.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
I just love it if they'd all stopped listening about
excise and actually do something about it.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
We're waiting, see, we're waiting, so Stephen Lovely to speak
to you this morning. I really appreciate you coming into
the studio and uh and we'll see you next time
you're in Darwin.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
And good luck getting an NFL time.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Thank you,
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