Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now joining me on the line right now is one
of our MLAs here in the Northern Territories. She's the
Independent member for Guida and the former Speaker of the
Northern Territories Legislative Assembly.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Her name is Kezia Puric. Good morning to you, Keasier.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Hey, good morning Katie, Good morning Kezier.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
This story is an interesting one. Yeah, it's a funny one.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Well, as you said, there's all members of the Assembly
are entitled to vehicle. It's part of our entitlement. So
now we get we get a salary, we get a vehicle,
we get electoral office, et cetera. And there's two ways,
as you said, the members can do it. They can
either take an allowance for their vehicle and then go
and buy their own vehicle. And that's what I've done.
I've taken you a lounge and so the car I
(00:43):
drive it to brew Brether is my car, okay. And
then I get a fuel allowance which goes into my
bank and that's how I pay my fuel. Okay. Now
the car is all very depending on your electorate, like
the town electrics get a choice of certain vehicles my
Electric else, and then daily can have a full drive
if they want, and then a lot of the bush
(01:04):
electrics are in titled to a full well drive and
certain fittings of that full drive, like a spare tire,
you spare battery, whatever, because you think electric, let's be honest.
And those who take the car also then get a
fuel card and it there's always been the assumption the
fuel card is for use for your job. In the past,
when I was a speaker and some members did want
(01:24):
to take their car into stateful holidays at the end
of the year, whatever, they would ask permission, and then
permission was given because there's legal issues, you know, like
if you have a praying into state for example, or
something happens, there's implications, you know, because your car has
been issued as part of your job. But there was
always always a situation that if you're on a private visit,
(01:45):
you paid your own fuel, you didn't use your fuel card.
And that's the way it was. It's always been, and
I think most members, if all of the members, I
was always under thisssumption that these new members were advised
of the situation. So how these two members view their
fuel cuts for private trips is a little bit beyond me,
and I'm sure, lots of.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
People, So keysy, it just make it really clear for us.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So when it comes to petrol and that fuel allowance,
there is a fuel allowance there. Local members can be
paid out and that can go into the account and
you can use as needed as required within the electorate.
But then others, others are entitled to a fuel card
that can be used at any point.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Yes, anywhere in the territory. I mean if there was
a situation and it can arise where you go into
state on a work trip, that's a different situation because
you know, some members might duck across the Queensland or
duck across w A. You know, because cattle stations and
synergies is they're electric here. That's understandable. That's a business trip.
(02:46):
It's the same as when you know, like when a
member takes a government car we call it a government car.
It comes back in regularly for a service, It comes
back and has its tires checked and if they have
to replace their replaced. So all expenses to do with
that vehicle are covered as part of their entire.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
So Keys, when do you reckon this changed with the
fuel card then being able to be used.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I don't know. If it has changed it. I haven't
looked at the Tribunal's determination or list of determination in
regards to the use of the fuel card, but I
was understanding that it was still if you go on
a personal trip, you pay your own fuel, and the
same would go if you you know, you know, one
of your tires blew had a punct or something, you'd
replace it at your own cost, because you know, it's
(03:28):
a private trip. It's not your work, it's not a
work trip. So I'm not sure. I mean, I'm not
one to criticize the speaker at all, but if I
was to spink, I'd be questioning that, you know, And
if the Tribunal for whatever reason, has been given submissions
by members or the political parties, then maybe now members
or even members of the public. Members of the public
(03:49):
are entitled to have their say as well. The Tribunal
always puts an ad in the paper saying we were
reviewing members and talbants. Do you want to have to
say genuine concerns put in a soblission.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Do you think that you know, I'm just taking a
look at these numbers here in terms of what was
reportedly used into states. So according to this report by
the ABC on the weekend. The fuel disclosure records show
that back bench MLA Duran Young spent more than seven
thousand dollars in fuel purchases over a four month period
that was from December twenty twenty two, but of this,
(04:22):
more than two and a half thousand dollars was spent
on private travel in New South Wales and Queensland, tabbing
up fuel spends in towns like Ballina, Yamba, Noosa, long Reach,
Mount Isser and Cammerwheel. The records also show the Northern
Territories Attorney General Chancey Paig wrapped up more than seven
hundred dollars in fuel costs on private travel during driving
(04:42):
between Adelaide and the Northern Territory between Boxing Day twenty
twenty two and January seven this year.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Do you think that that money should do you think
that should.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Be south go? Okay, sorry I interrupted, that's all right.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Do you think that money should be paid.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Back if they're not entitled to it. I think it
should be paid back if they're not entitled to it.
It becomes an ethical and a moral issue. Now I've
got a use my own and I've also got my
so brewers, I said to you now, two thousand dollars,
that's a lot of fuel. Even with our high prices
(05:18):
here in the territory, that's a lot of fuel. Like
most cars, an average car is about fifty sixty leaders,
you know, it probably costs about one hundred and twenty
to fill it up. And what fuel akafour will drive
bigger car diesel more expensive. I get that, but it
just does seem to be a lot of money. So
I think the question is were they entitled to use
their fuel card interstate on a personal trip. If that's
(05:40):
the case, well that's the case. But if not, and
they were given commissioned by the speaker, we'll let something
that the Speaker has to answer to now.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
In terms of if I can gather what the Northern
Territory government has responded to me in terms of my
questions this morning. They didn't respond to whether the member
would pay that money back, the members would pay that
money back, or you know, whether whether there should be
a needs to be a tightening of those rules. But
what they have said is that the Renumeration Tribunal is
(06:08):
an independent body that sets the entitlements for all members
of the Legislative Assembly. They go through the fact that
vehicles are provided to members of the Legislative Assembly for
parliamentary business, electorate use and private use, and members who
ought not to receive an Northern Territory government vehicle are
given a financial entitlement that they can use instead, and
(06:29):
this entitlement varies for different electorates.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
They say.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Additional entitlements for allowances and expenses for parliamentary and electorate
business are set out in sections five, six and seven
of the determination.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
The Keyser, I guess.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
The question is is does that determination need to change
if we've got politicians that are using their fuel cards
into state, Like, why on earth are Territorians footing the
bill for that for their private travelers.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yes, well, it wouldn't be the first time, Katie. When
I was the Speaker there was a past member who
was abusing her fuel card and her vehicle something terribly
and the rules did have to change, and I put
it to the tribunal. I said, look, this can't keep
going on, you know, we must do this, this and
this and change the rules. And so the rules were
changed to tighten up on those things so that can happen.
(07:18):
So if it's just not expressly in the Tribunal that
your car and your fuel allowance card is for your
domestic your domestic personal use and your electric et cetera.
Then but not into state travel for holidays. Then that
clarity needs to happen in the tribunal, and they're doing
it at the moment, so I'm sure this is one
of the things that they will look at the tribunal members.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, well, Kesyopuric, it is always good to catch up
with you. I appreciate you providing us that background and
appreciate that clarity as always.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Thanks Katie, thank you, See you later.
Now joining me on the line right now is one
of our MLAs here in the Northern Territories. She's the
Independent member for Guida and the former Speaker of the
Northern Territories Legislative Assembly.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Her name is Kezia Puric. Good morning to you, Keasier.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Hey, good morning Katie, Good morning Kezier.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
This story is an interesting one. Yeah, it's a funny one.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Well, as you said, there's all members of the Assembly
are entitled to vehicle. It's part of our entitlement. So
now we get we get a salary, we get a vehicle,
we get electoral office, et cetera. And there's two ways,
as you said, the members can do it. They can
either take an allowance for their vehicle and then go
and buy their own vehicle. And that's what I've done.
I've taken you a lounge and so the car I
(00:43):
drive it to brew Brether is my car, okay. And
then I get a fuel allowance which goes into my
bank and that's how I pay my fuel. Okay. Now
the car is all very depending on your electorate, like
the town electrics get a choice of certain vehicles my
Electric else, and then daily can have a full drive
if they want, and then a lot of the bush
(01:04):
electrics are in titled to a full well drive and
certain fittings of that full drive, like a spare tire,
you spare battery, whatever, because you think electric, let's be honest.
And those who take the car also then get a
fuel card and it there's always been the assumption the
fuel card is for use for your job. In the past,
when I was a speaker and some members did want
(01:24):
to take their car into stateful holidays at the end
of the year, whatever, they would ask permission, and then
permission was given because there's legal issues, you know, like
if you have a praying into state for example, or
something happens, there's implications, you know, because your car has
been issued as part of your job. But there was
always always a situation that if you're on a private visit,
(01:45):
you paid your own fuel, you didn't use your fuel card.
And that's the way it was. It's always been, and
I think most members, if all of the members, I
was always under thisssumption that these new members were advised
of the situation. So how these two members view their
fuel cuts for private trips is a little bit beyond me,
and I'm sure, lots of.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
People, So keysy, it just make it really clear for us.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So when it comes to petrol and that fuel allowance,
there is a fuel allowance there. Local members can be
paid out and that can go into the account and
you can use as needed as required within the electorate.
But then others, others are entitled to a fuel card
that can be used at any point.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Yes, anywhere in the territory. I mean if there was
a situation and it can arise where you go into
state on a work trip, that's a different situation because
you know, some members might duck across the Queensland or
duck across w A. You know, because cattle stations and
synergies is they're electric here. That's understandable. That's a business trip.
(02:46):
It's the same as when you know, like when a
member takes a government car we call it a government car.
It comes back in regularly for a service, It comes
back and has its tires checked and if they have
to replace their replaced. So all expenses to do with
that vehicle are covered as part of their entire.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
So Keys, when do you reckon this changed with the
fuel card then being able to be used.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I don't know. If it has changed it. I haven't
looked at the Tribunal's determination or list of determination in
regards to the use of the fuel card, but I
was understanding that it was still if you go on
a personal trip, you pay your own fuel, and the
same would go if you you know, you know, one
of your tires blew had a punct or something, you'd
replace it at your own cost, because you know, it's
(03:28):
a private trip. It's not your work, it's not a
work trip. So I'm not sure. I mean, I'm not
one to criticize the speaker at all, but if I
was to spink, I'd be questioning that, you know, And
if the Tribunal for whatever reason, has been given submissions
by members or the political parties, then maybe now members
or even members of the public. Members of the public
(03:49):
are entitled to have their say as well. The Tribunal
always puts an ad in the paper saying we were
reviewing members and talbants. Do you want to have to
say genuine concerns put in a soblission.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Do you think that you know, I'm just taking a
look at these numbers here in terms of what was
reportedly used into states. So according to this report by
the ABC on the weekend. The fuel disclosure records show
that back bench MLA Duran Young spent more than seven
thousand dollars in fuel purchases over a four month period
that was from December twenty twenty two, but of this,
(04:22):
more than two and a half thousand dollars was spent
on private travel in New South Wales and Queensland, tabbing
up fuel spends in towns like Ballina, Yamba, Noosa, long Reach,
Mount Isser and Cammerwheel. The records also show the Northern
Territories Attorney General Chancey Paig wrapped up more than seven
hundred dollars in fuel costs on private travel during driving
(04:42):
between Adelaide and the Northern Territory between Boxing Day twenty
twenty two and January seven this year.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Do you think that that money should do you think
that should.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Be south go? Okay, sorry I interrupted, that's all right.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Do you think that money should be paid.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Back if they're not entitled to it. I think it
should be paid back if they're not entitled to it.
It becomes an ethical and a moral issue. Now I've
got a use my own and I've also got my
so brewers, I said to you now, two thousand dollars,
that's a lot of fuel. Even with our high prices
(05:18):
here in the territory, that's a lot of fuel. Like
most cars, an average car is about fifty sixty leaders,
you know, it probably costs about one hundred and twenty
to fill it up. And what fuel akafour will drive
bigger car diesel more expensive. I get that, but it
just does seem to be a lot of money. So
I think the question is were they entitled to use
their fuel card interstate on a personal trip. If that's
(05:40):
the case, well that's the case. But if not, and
they were given commissioned by the speaker, we'll let something
that the Speaker has to answer to now.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
In terms of if I can gather what the Northern
Territory government has responded to me in terms of my
questions this morning. They didn't respond to whether the member
would pay that money back, the members would pay that
money back, or you know, whether whether there should be
a needs to be a tightening of those rules. But
what they have said is that the Renumeration Tribunal is
(06:08):
an independent body that sets the entitlements for all members
of the Legislative Assembly. They go through the fact that
vehicles are provided to members of the Legislative Assembly for
parliamentary business, electorate use and private use, and members who
ought not to receive an Northern Territory government vehicle are
given a financial entitlement that they can use instead, and
(06:29):
this entitlement varies for different electorates.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
They say.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Additional entitlements for allowances and expenses for parliamentary and electorate
business are set out in sections five, six and seven
of the determination.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
The Keyser, I guess.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
The question is is does that determination need to change
if we've got politicians that are using their fuel cards
into state, Like, why on earth are Territorians footing the
bill for that for their private travelers.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yes, well, it wouldn't be the first time, Katie. When
I was the Speaker there was a past member who
was abusing her fuel card and her vehicle something terribly
and the rules did have to change, and I put
it to the tribunal. I said, look, this can't keep
going on, you know, we must do this, this and
this and change the rules. And so the rules were
changed to tighten up on those things so that can happen.
(07:18):
So if it's just not expressly in the Tribunal that
your car and your fuel allowance card is for your
domestic your domestic personal use and your electric et cetera.
Then but not into state travel for holidays. Then that
clarity needs to happen in the tribunal, and they're doing
it at the moment, so I'm sure this is one
of the things that they will look at the tribunal members.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, well, Kesyopuric, it is always good to catch up
with you. I appreciate you providing us that background and
appreciate that clarity as always.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Thanks Katie, thank you, See you later.
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