Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We do know that new projection projections, i should say,
have revealed that home building levels in the Northern Territory
shaping up to be among the worst ever, sparking calls
for a residential construction scheme. Now, Master Builders NT is
forecasting that only two hundred and seventy homes are going
to be built in the twenty twenty three twenty four
financial year. That's a decline of fifty five percent on
(00:23):
the previous year. Joining us in the studio to shed
some more light on the situation is Master Builders Chief
Executive Ben Carter. Good morning to you, Ben O.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Katie, how are you going?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah, really good, Thanks so much for your time this morning. Ben,
tell me a little bit more about this forecast for
the next year.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
So, Katie, we've known for about at least eighteen months
at housing is a real problem in the territory.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Master Builds and other.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Industry groups have been calling for an increased apply in
housing and the government has been working towards that, and
there have been reports such as to Bringing and to
Market report which is about increasing the supply of title land. However,
despite all of that, our latest forecasts are that the
(01:09):
territory housing market is basically, without a heart beat, this
is going to be an historic low in terms of
housing construction for this year. The dah and Major Business
Group's recent report shows that home ownership is also an
historic low.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
And although although there.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Is construction of social housing being invested in, that's just
a small portion of what the market needs to be.
Social housing is not going to solve the problem of
private sector housing. Private sector housing is a key indicator
of the performance of the economy and what this latest
forecar shows is that not only have we got a
historically low number of houses being built this year, but
(01:46):
that confidence in the territory economy is correspondingly low as
well well.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
And this is the thing, isn't that We did speak
to the Dull Major Business Group, I think it was
last week about this and we talked a little about
about the housing and the news starts and you know,
I guess it goes to show you not only that
the population increase is sort of not happening, but also
that confidence I suppose from people wanting to build in
(02:11):
the Northern.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Territory absolutely so.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Over the last nine months, Master Builders has been calling
for supply measures from the government to increase the supplies,
i say, of housing and land. But what we're also
facing is demand pressure, and that's coming from a combination
of factors as well, including it what you just mentioned there,
you know, law and order and criminal behavior and any
social behavior, which is of course having an impact on
(02:37):
people's desire and people's confidence about whether the territory is
the place that they would want to be and to
build a house, build their home, and that's going to
the number of houses that we're building now is just anemic,
is way too low, and is going to really undermine
people's confidence in the economy and undermine our ability to
increase their population. And what's really concerning for us master
(02:59):
builders is that it will it will undermine the strength
of the economy, and our members need a strong economy
for a strong pipeline of work. And it will also
this number of this low number of houses will potentially
undermine our ability to get the benefits, the long term
benefits from the six point two billion dollars which is
being invested by the Australian US government in terms of
(03:20):
defense infrastructure. We will benefit from that from that money
from a capital investment perspective.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
So people will come and they will build it.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
But the opportunity, the golden opportunity to build a long
term to get the long term benefits from that investment,
to have a stronger population, which of course produces a
stronger economy that potentially can be undermined unless we boost
the supply of housing and boost confidence in the territory
as well.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
That's a big saying, hey, that confidence. So the projection
is two hundred and seventy homes over the twenty twenty
three to twenty four financial year, Ben, how does that
compare to other years?
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Well, previously we've had well, I think it was last
year before we had six hundred homes or around that.
Of course, the territory of a small place, we don't
have thousands of houses being built as there are in
other jurisdictions. But two hundred and seventy is, as I said,
a fifty five percent full. So we would have come
be coming from around six hundred homes last year. Previous
(04:19):
years we've had four hundred and five hundred and other
times as many as you know, six or seven hundred
at peak times. And so the other problem with this
projection is that it means that the recovery will be
slow in terms of housing, it's really hard to turn
around that stuff quickly. But we know that things like
really well targeted housing incentives and homeowner home building grants
(04:42):
can turn around sentiment turn can turn a demand tat
back on. And so that means what we're calling for
now is a really work well. Lots to be done
to work out what the best grants and seniers should be.
But we've seen that they worked previously in a territory
with a bill bonus scheme really.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Good in the past. Like we've actually been what felt
like a bit of a leader in the past with
this kind.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Of stuff, and we can this is this is a
key message to coming out, as you say, of Master
builders work but also the day on major business group work,
is that we need a territory to be the best place,
the best place to be to be to be doing
business and the best place to work. And that means
it needs to be easy, we need to be and
we need to be competitive. We talk a lot about
a territory lifestyle, but at the moment there are things
(05:26):
which are preventing us, i think, from from and preventing
others from down south and overseas from accessing that lifestyle.
You know, if you can't come and get a house,
if you can't be you know, incentivized to come to
the territory, then then that's a real problem. And getting
into a home mortgage, it's one of the things that's
probably one of the most effective things that will keep
(05:46):
people in the territory.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
People are all like we're talking about two hundred extra police, right,
They've got to live somewhere, you know, that kind of
thing when you're talking about boosting the workforce in lots
of different areas. They need to have somewhere to live.
So if there is those different incentives, and I know
that they get sort of housing incentives and things, but
you know, but on the on the other side of it,
if there is incentive for someone to build their home,
(06:11):
you know it do it. Like you said, it does
keep them here longer term.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
And we here all the time in a territory about
the concerns about the.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Fi FO situation. Well, one of the you know, one
of the things we.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Have to do here is to be competitive against other
states and territories. We know that in our stations and
territories they get a lot of benefits. They get fast
tracked permanent residency from overseas and the other states and
territories have really robust housing incentives that people can get
into into a home ownership, and we need to be
competitive and making it easy. And as you say, even
people from from down south should be seeing the territory
(06:45):
as an opportunity, but we need to make it.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
It used to be that, Hey, you used to really
look at the Northern Territory as being a land of opportunity,
particularly like if you're a young couple or a young person,
young professional or young worker coming to the territory and
you'd think, hey, this is my chance to get ahead.
But we've lost that a bit over recent years. Been
in an ideal world, what kind of incentive incentives would
(07:09):
there be on offer in the Northern Territory to try
to get people building their first time or their own home.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Well, we would have to do the work, and I'm
sure others that we're doing the work around this, and
we need government and the opposition too, given i we've
got an election coming up to be coming up with
a really effective plan and around these sorts of questions.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
However, without going too much detail, you'd need it.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
To be you know, you don't want to have it
in two price caps because you need to make them
say that they're not too restrictive. The problem with first
home buyers grants, for instance, often is that they are
fairly small and also that they are capped to people
who probably don't necessarily have the income to build a
new home, so that there needs to be higher caps,
(07:52):
and there also needs to be not necessarily strict to
home to first time.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Buyers because there are other people who want to build homes.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
We all seem to make sure, of course that with
medium density considerations, we need to make sure that that
there are whatever benefits, So whatever grants or benefits there
are need to apply to you know, buying off the
plan and to apartments as well. So there's there needs
to be an ecosystem, and that's the key point. If
you go to other jurisdictions, there's an ecosystem around different
(08:21):
incentives and.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Grants which would support this this sort of activity.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
So the message is that it's that sentiment can be
turned around, and particularly since we have a strong pipeline
work coming from defense and you know in civil construction
and also commercial construction at the moment, that's that we
should be capitalizing on that to really tag the long
term benefits from that sort of investment by boosting our
(08:45):
housing supply. And it's got to be private tector housing,
because private tector housing is really important for a small
cohort of people. But it's got to be it's got
to be only part of the mix of housing. Home
ownership and practical housing is what we need.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Then, before I let you go, just a I guess
a quick one. You know, like I've met plenty of
the builders around the Northern Territory, plenty of those subcontractors.
You know, I've helped to em see your events at
different times over the years. It is such a strong industry.
But you know, when I hear numbers like this, I
really feel for those business owners, and a lot of
(09:20):
them are mum and dad businesses or family run businesses.
What impact is it going to have if the government
doesn't take a close look at this, and what impact
is it going to have on some of those wonderful
businesses that have operated here for a bloody long time.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Okay, you of course, where you're well known to us
and we love your msning about EBC Awards, which of
course is one of the best and biggest events in
the territory. But to answer your question, it's going to
have an impact on those mum and dad businesses, but
also slightly larger businesses, and it's also going to have
an impact on the wider economy. And I would say,
I'd say to territories. Of course, many of them are
(09:59):
employed in the public sector and they play a really
important role, but I want them to be engaged with
this too, because if we don't have strong private investment,
and we don't have a strong building constructing industry, for instance,
which drives private sector investment and confidence, then there's less
resources to do things like improve the public sector, to
(10:19):
improve health, to improve education, to improve livability and amenity
in our.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Regional centers and our cities.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
And so that's why the private sector investment and why
a strong building construction industry and a strong housing supply
of private sector housing is really important to everyone.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
It's not just about territory builders, although.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
It will have an impact on those businesses and we're
concerned about that because they are are numbers, but we
also our members also derive a strong pipeline from a
strong economy, and housing is a really important part of that.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
It truly is well. Ben Carter, the chief executive of
Master Builders here in the Northern Territory, really appreciate your
time this morning. Thanks very much for coming in and
having it. Thank you
We do know that new projection projections, i should say,
have revealed that home building levels in the Northern Territory
shaping up to be among the worst ever, sparking calls
for a residential construction scheme. Now, Master Builders NT is
forecasting that only two hundred and seventy homes are going
to be built in the twenty twenty three twenty four
financial year. That's a decline of fifty five percent on
(00:23):
the previous year. Joining us in the studio to shed
some more light on the situation is Master Builders Chief
Executive Ben Carter. Good morning to you, Ben O.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Katie, how are you going?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah, really good, Thanks so much for your time this morning. Ben,
tell me a little bit more about this forecast for
the next year.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
So, Katie, we've known for about at least eighteen months
at housing is a real problem in the territory.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Master Builds and other.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Industry groups have been calling for an increased apply in
housing and the government has been working towards that, and
there have been reports such as to Bringing and to
Market report which is about increasing the supply of title land. However,
despite all of that, our latest forecasts are that the
(01:09):
territory housing market is basically, without a heart beat, this
is going to be an historic low in terms of
housing construction for this year. The dah and Major Business
Group's recent report shows that home ownership is also an
historic low.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
And although although there.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Is construction of social housing being invested in, that's just
a small portion of what the market needs to be.
Social housing is not going to solve the problem of
private sector housing. Private sector housing is a key indicator
of the performance of the economy and what this latest
forecar shows is that not only have we got a
historically low number of houses being built this year, but
(01:46):
that confidence in the territory economy is correspondingly low as
well well.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
And this is the thing, isn't that We did speak
to the Dull Major Business Group, I think it was
last week about this and we talked a little about
about the housing and the news starts and you know,
I guess it goes to show you not only that
the population increase is sort of not happening, but also
that confidence I suppose from people wanting to build in
(02:11):
the Northern.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Territory absolutely so.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Over the last nine months, Master Builders has been calling
for supply measures from the government to increase the supplies,
i say, of housing and land. But what we're also
facing is demand pressure, and that's coming from a combination
of factors as well, including it what you just mentioned there,
you know, law and order and criminal behavior and any
social behavior, which is of course having an impact on
(02:37):
people's desire and people's confidence about whether the territory is
the place that they would want to be and to
build a house, build their home, and that's going to
the number of houses that we're building now is just anemic,
is way too low, and is going to really undermine
people's confidence in the economy and undermine our ability to
increase their population. And what's really concerning for us master
(02:59):
builders is that it will it will undermine the strength
of the economy, and our members need a strong economy
for a strong pipeline of work. And it will also
this number of this low number of houses will potentially
undermine our ability to get the benefits, the long term
benefits from the six point two billion dollars which is
being invested by the Australian US government in terms of
(03:20):
defense infrastructure. We will benefit from that from that money
from a capital investment perspective.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
So people will come and they will build it.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
But the opportunity, the golden opportunity to build a long
term to get the long term benefits from that investment,
to have a stronger population, which of course produces a
stronger economy that potentially can be undermined unless we boost
the supply of housing and boost confidence in the territory
as well.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
That's a big saying, hey, that confidence. So the projection
is two hundred and seventy homes over the twenty twenty
three to twenty four financial year, Ben, how does that
compare to other years?
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Well, previously we've had well, I think it was last
year before we had six hundred homes or around that.
Of course, the territory of a small place, we don't
have thousands of houses being built as there are in
other jurisdictions. But two hundred and seventy is, as I said,
a fifty five percent full. So we would have come
be coming from around six hundred homes last year. Previous
(04:19):
years we've had four hundred and five hundred and other
times as many as you know, six or seven hundred
at peak times. And so the other problem with this
projection is that it means that the recovery will be
slow in terms of housing, it's really hard to turn
around that stuff quickly. But we know that things like
really well targeted housing incentives and homeowner home building grants
(04:42):
can turn around sentiment turn can turn a demand tat
back on. And so that means what we're calling for
now is a really work well. Lots to be done
to work out what the best grants and seniers should be.
But we've seen that they worked previously in a territory
with a bill bonus scheme really.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Good in the past. Like we've actually been what felt
like a bit of a leader in the past with
this kind.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Of stuff, and we can this is this is a
key message to coming out, as you say, of Master
builders work but also the day on major business group work,
is that we need a territory to be the best place,
the best place to be to be to be doing
business and the best place to work. And that means
it needs to be easy, we need to be and
we need to be competitive. We talk a lot about
a territory lifestyle, but at the moment there are things
(05:26):
which are preventing us, i think, from from and preventing
others from down south and overseas from accessing that lifestyle.
You know, if you can't come and get a house,
if you can't be you know, incentivized to come to
the territory, then then that's a real problem. And getting
into a home mortgage, it's one of the things that's
probably one of the most effective things that will keep
(05:46):
people in the territory.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
People are all like we're talking about two hundred extra police, right,
They've got to live somewhere, you know, that kind of
thing when you're talking about boosting the workforce in lots
of different areas. They need to have somewhere to live.
So if there is those different incentives, and I know
that they get sort of housing incentives and things, but
you know, but on the on the other side of it,
if there is incentive for someone to build their home,
(06:11):
you know it do it. Like you said, it does
keep them here longer term.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
And we here all the time in a territory about
the concerns about the.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Fi FO situation. Well, one of the you know, one
of the things we.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Have to do here is to be competitive against other
states and territories. We know that in our stations and
territories they get a lot of benefits. They get fast
tracked permanent residency from overseas and the other states and
territories have really robust housing incentives that people can get
into into a home ownership, and we need to be
competitive and making it easy. And as you say, even
people from from down south should be seeing the territory
(06:45):
as an opportunity, but we need to make it.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
It used to be that, Hey, you used to really
look at the Northern Territory as being a land of opportunity,
particularly like if you're a young couple or a young person,
young professional or young worker coming to the territory and
you'd think, hey, this is my chance to get ahead.
But we've lost that a bit over recent years. Been
in an ideal world, what kind of incentive incentives would
(07:09):
there be on offer in the Northern Territory to try
to get people building their first time or their own home.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Well, we would have to do the work, and I'm
sure others that we're doing the work around this, and
we need government and the opposition too, given i we've
got an election coming up to be coming up with
a really effective plan and around these sorts of questions.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
However, without going too much detail, you'd need it.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
To be you know, you don't want to have it
in two price caps because you need to make them
say that they're not too restrictive. The problem with first
home buyers grants, for instance, often is that they are
fairly small and also that they are capped to people
who probably don't necessarily have the income to build a
new home, so that there needs to be higher caps,
(07:52):
and there also needs to be not necessarily strict to
home to first time.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Buyers because there are other people who want to build homes.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
We all seem to make sure, of course that with
medium density considerations, we need to make sure that that
there are whatever benefits, So whatever grants or benefits there
are need to apply to you know, buying off the
plan and to apartments as well. So there's there needs
to be an ecosystem, and that's the key point. If
you go to other jurisdictions, there's an ecosystem around different
(08:21):
incentives and.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Grants which would support this this sort of activity.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
So the message is that it's that sentiment can be
turned around, and particularly since we have a strong pipeline
work coming from defense and you know in civil construction
and also commercial construction at the moment, that's that we
should be capitalizing on that to really tag the long
term benefits from that sort of investment by boosting our
(08:45):
housing supply. And it's got to be private tector housing,
because private tector housing is really important for a small
cohort of people. But it's got to be it's got
to be only part of the mix of housing. Home
ownership and practical housing is what we need.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Then, before I let you go, just a I guess
a quick one. You know, like I've met plenty of
the builders around the Northern Territory, plenty of those subcontractors.
You know, I've helped to em see your events at
different times over the years. It is such a strong industry.
But you know, when I hear numbers like this, I
really feel for those business owners, and a lot of
(09:20):
them are mum and dad businesses or family run businesses.
What impact is it going to have if the government
doesn't take a close look at this, and what impact
is it going to have on some of those wonderful
businesses that have operated here for a bloody long time.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Okay, you of course, where you're well known to us
and we love your msning about EBC Awards, which of
course is one of the best and biggest events in
the territory. But to answer your question, it's going to
have an impact on those mum and dad businesses, but
also slightly larger businesses, and it's also going to have
an impact on the wider economy. And I would say,
I'd say to territories. Of course, many of them are
(09:59):
employed in the public sector and they play a really
important role, but I want them to be engaged with
this too, because if we don't have strong private investment,
and we don't have a strong building constructing industry, for instance,
which drives private sector investment and confidence, then there's less
resources to do things like improve the public sector, to
(10:19):
improve health, to improve education, to improve livability and amenity
in our.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Regional centers and our cities.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
And so that's why the private sector investment and why
a strong building construction industry and a strong housing supply
of private sector housing is really important to everyone.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
It's not just about territory builders, although.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
It will have an impact on those businesses and we're
concerned about that because they are are numbers, but we
also our members also derive a strong pipeline from a
strong economy, and housing is a really important part of that.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
It truly is well. Ben Carter, the chief executive of
Master Builders here in the Northern Territory, really appreciate your
time this morning. Thanks very much for coming in and
having it. Thank you
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