Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, if you were listening to the show last week,
estimates certainly set tongues wagging, with plenty of information coming
through about areas of concern, like Dammy jard at Howard Springs,
but it was a lack of information in one area
which has upset quite a few people. Take a listen
to this exchange that unfolded last week during budget estimates.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Police, Minister, do you know how much Jamie Chilker was
paid out? No, and so if you don't know how
much he was paid out, you have no idea how
it's impacted your budget's bottom line. Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
That's incorrect on this particular matter. There were several elements
of the negotiation and the payout that I'm that was
a confidential payout, So I'm not going to discuss that
any further.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
But we were told yesterday by the Treasurer that the
entire payout came from the police bottom line. That means,
as Minister, you must know what hit your department has
taken to pay for that payout.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
So the Commissioner's numeration does fall under our budget, as
does any CES renumeration within their department budgets, and it
would be totally inappropriate to no line by line around
any separations from any agency. So no, I don't know
(01:29):
the exact figure.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
So you just have a global separation's budget with no oversight.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I think I've answered the question.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
So that was during budget estimates last week and that
was Lea Finocchio, the opposition leader. They're questioning the Minister
for Police Kate Warden. Now joining me in the studio
to talk more about the need for transparency in this
space is the president of the Police Association, Nathan Finn.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Good morning, Nathan, Good morning, Katy, Good morning for you listen.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Good to have you in the studio. Now, tell me
why do police in the general public deserve to know
more about this payout?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Well, Katie, obviously, as mentioned obviously it's coming out of
the budget of the police.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
In relation to that, we don't specifically need the those
of specifics of obviously what was agreed to, but if
it's coming out of the budget and coming out of
the police operational budget, we need to know how much
of impact that's actually going to have on us.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Well, this is the thing that seems to make a
lot of sense to most everyday people. They're going, well,
hang on a second. You know, if it's coming out
of the operational budget, surely the Minister must know exactly
how much that is and how it's going to impact
the bottom line and the operations of day to day business.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Yeah, that's exactly right. How do they know it's going
to limit the impact to us if they don't actually
know the amount. I'm sorry, but it's reported to be
over six figures. In relation to that, it's a huge
part of our budget. It could be operational police officer
that's referred to remote housing, which we're struggling with as
well at the moment. If that's a settlement, it's in
relation to a court matter, it's an out of court settlement.
(02:58):
It shouldn't be coming from us. It see clearly coming
from the Slizz of the Northern Territory or the Northern
Territory government.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
Cory.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, I mean, do you think it's a bit bizarre
that you know that the minister has claimed that she's
got no idea of how much it is.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
Exactly exactly, Katie.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
They have to have an idea of how much it
is and how much is going to infect our budget.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Now when you talk about the day to day what
impact do you think that it is going to have
on the operations of the Northern Territory Police.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
It's just limiting our ability to obviously resource our police
force in other areas such as your remote housing. I've
just spoke about before. We need urgent repairs to remote housing,
to staffing levels. This could be put back into those
things that are more important at the moment.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
What were the rank and files saying to you last
week about that situation, because presumably quite a few of
them did actually hear that interaction that had unfolded, and
you know a lot of them are probably wondering exactly
what that payout was, and you know, knowing that there
is going to be confidentiality clauses there, but understanding then
that it had come from the police budget.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
If there is confidentially clauses in there, why I paid
it from the police budget. At the end of the day,
it's going to come out obviously during our budget situation,
through the police's budget. It's actually going to come to
light at the end of the day. If they wanted
to be confidential, they should have paid it confidentially through
the other means.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
And so, you know, were the rank and file saying
to you last week that they thought that this was
a pretty ordinary situation, or what would they say.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
They're quite frustrated.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Obviously they've got limitations about They asked for money on
a daily basis to assist us in doing our operational capacities.
But at the end of the day, if that they
can't get money for something else, and there's other money
being taken out without their knowledge or without their guidance,
and how are we going to manage a budget if
we don't know how much we got to manage, well,
not physically responsible.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
It did seem like a really bizarre situation I think
last week, and a lot of people are going to
be wondering this morning whether the Chief Minister is going
to be more open and transparent with some of those numbers.
I mean, do you hope that.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
She is definitely?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Definitely, Obviously she's going to have some hard questions this
morning and obviously her estimates this morning. Hopefully he comes
to the table and obviously amount wise, obviously it's confidential.
But at the end of the day, I think they
should have done it a little bit differently in the
way it's been carried out.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, Hey, let's talk about the information which was revealed
as well though around over time. Now, this is something
that really struck me. Members have worked one hundred and
fifty nine thousand hours of overtime in the financial year
to March thirty one. When you actually look at that
one hundred and fifty nine thousand hours, it's hard to
(05:28):
comprehend exactly what impact that is having then on officers
doing their jobs.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
That's just to do regular business, Katie. So that equates
obviously five hundred eighty hours. As we've discussed in our
media releases, it's seventy two additional police officers per day,
per day. That is hard to fathom. At the moment,
our resourcing issues are huge across the Northern Territory. This
obviously shows us that we need this seventy two members
per day. That's not including recreation and leave, long service
(05:55):
leave or anything else. That's just to meet the current demand,
not the future.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
How can that sort of cease as well in terms
of trying to do those day to day jobs When
you're having to pull in that many officers to do
overtime each and every day, like surely it says that
we do not have enough police.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
An example of that Cadie is obviously on the weekend.
Obviously at the Supercars, a number of the police officers there,
we're all on overtime even though it's a planned event.
So wow, it was just, yeah, it was confronting to
know that we need to this is core business for us.
Obviously the v eights obviously need policing as well in
every other event, but it's a planned event. It's a
planned annual event that we know about well and truly
(06:33):
in advance, but we're still rostering people on overtime to
meet this ability.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
It's like it is quite huge to think that, you know,
even on the weekend that you're in a situation where
everybody rostered on for the Supercars is they're doing overtime.
But then we keep getting told that we've never had
a bigger police budget and we've never had more Northern
Territory police. But is the situation really here that the
demands that we expect our police to sort of deal
with are increasing?
Speaker 4 (06:59):
Yeah, definitely, Katie, Definitely, the people that are ringing police
nowadays is extraordinary amount compared to obviously ten years ago.
The crime, as you know and you hear daily from
your viewers, it's through the roof, it's being reported on
that and we haven't got enough police officer.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
To deal with it.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
So what do you reckon, Like, do we just need
more police?
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Just need more police? But an urgent policing review needs
to be conducted straight away by the government. I know
they've committed to it. I know they're waiting for the
electronic rostering program to roll out. I can tell you
and your listeners now I actually worked on electronic rostering
project be prior to coming into this role. Now that's
not going to provide the information thereafter. So definitely it's
something they need to do now and be serious about
(07:40):
this because we are in a crossis situation here with
the resourcing and the Northern Territory Police.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, and look, I know that the figure around the
Police Commissioner is the thing that's really caught everybody's attention
and it's the real headline grabber.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
But for me, when I look at.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Those numbers of hours of overtime that police are doing,
and then when you take into account the Police Association
survey happened last year and the fact that you've got
police saying we really don't feel like there's enough of
us to do our job. I think what you're saying
there is an incredibly important point that that resource review
needs to happen. It seems sooner rather than later. You know,
(08:13):
the minister committing she committed to it, you know as
well on this show when we'd had her on during
the week that was, she had said that, yes, it
is going to happen. I'm pretty sure without paraphrasing her,
that she'd said that she wants it to happen before
the next Northern Territory election. But Nathan, from your perspective,
how quickly could they kick this off?
Speaker 5 (08:33):
How members can't wait any longer? Katie?
Speaker 4 (08:35):
We want a commitment from the Police Minister to review
commenced before.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
The end of this year.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
So before the end of this year you reckon, yep.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
But as soon as possible now. Tell me as well.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
You'd mentioned there that in your previous role you're working
on those electronic you know, working with the electronic rosterring.
Why why do they keep saying that that's required to
be able to do this review?
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Is it? No, it's not, definitely not, Katie. It's it's
not required at all. The electronic rostering system is just
electronic rostering based system where police can obviously have a
specific criteria of how they're logging on logging off. Okay,
we're actually very archaic in relation to the way they
do the rostering. Are currently Excel spreadsheets, so it's just
an electronic means to bring all the rostering together and
have easier access to.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
The rostering system.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
And so really they could be committing to this, like
how soon.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Straight away? Straight away, Katie, they should have commenced it already.
The information they've got currently on hand that the information
from the government is they have all the information they're
required to obviously go in and do this resource review
yp but they still haven't to start it.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
They have to haven't committed to it, Nathan.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
From your perspective, like, why is it so important that
the resource review actually happens, because I suppose to some
people listening they'll be thinking, oh, another review, is it
really going to make a difference. It just sounds like
we do need more police. If you look at those
numbers of overtime they're doing.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
We continually asks for resources. We'd like it fact cold
written down to show the members of the public that
we're not just going.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
We need more.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
We need more, We need more to do what we
need to do. It's to show the government were actually are.
We're screaming for resources, We're screaming for staff, and our
staff are at breaking point every single day they go
to work.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, mate, what's it been like stepping into the role?
You how long you been in there? Now?
Speaker 5 (10:12):
A couple of weeks hit.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
The ground running, only a few weeks you hit the
ground running or sprinting, Not that I sprint very much anymore,
but definitely hit the ground running. A lot of issues
to get your head around, obviously to get the background
knowledge of. But I'm glad I'm in the role obviously
currently supporting our members, and I've been out in the
field supporting our members for the last twenty years over operationally,
but now get the privileged to obviously serve our members
(10:34):
and obviously provide the best level of service we can
for our members and obviously out of community as well well.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
No doubt we'll be catching up with you more often.
Really appreciate your time this morning, Thanks so much. Thank
you to your listeners, And yeah, I know we've got
plenty of police officers that do listen to the show,
and I'm sure that you know, they are are keen
to get this resource review underway as well to determine exactly,
you know, I like to work out exactly what our
police do need and what areas they sort of they
(11:01):
need it.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Definitely, Katie, Definitely, and we'll keep pushing the issues on
behalf of our members to obviously maintain that they're wealth
supported out in the field and got the ability and
the resources to do the best job they possibly can
for the community as well.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
Absolutely well.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Northern Territory Police Association President Nathan Finn, thanks so much
for your time today.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
Thanks Katie, Thank thank you.
Well, if you were listening to the show last week,
estimates certainly set tongues wagging, with plenty of information coming
through about areas of concern, like Dammy jard at Howard Springs,
but it was a lack of information in one area
which has upset quite a few people. Take a listen
to this exchange that unfolded last week during budget estimates.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Police, Minister, do you know how much Jamie Chilker was
paid out? No, and so if you don't know how
much he was paid out, you have no idea how
it's impacted your budget's bottom line. Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
That's incorrect on this particular matter. There were several elements
of the negotiation and the payout that I'm that was
a confidential payout, So I'm not going to discuss that
any further.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
But we were told yesterday by the Treasurer that the
entire payout came from the police bottom line. That means,
as Minister, you must know what hit your department has
taken to pay for that payout.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
So the Commissioner's numeration does fall under our budget, as
does any CES renumeration within their department budgets, and it
would be totally inappropriate to no line by line around
any separations from any agency. So no, I don't know
(01:29):
the exact figure.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
So you just have a global separation's budget with no oversight.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I think I've answered the question.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
So that was during budget estimates last week and that
was Lea Finocchio, the opposition leader. They're questioning the Minister
for Police Kate Warden. Now joining me in the studio
to talk more about the need for transparency in this
space is the president of the Police Association, Nathan Finn.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Good morning, Nathan, Good morning, Katy, Good morning for you listen.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Good to have you in the studio. Now, tell me
why do police in the general public deserve to know
more about this payout?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Well, Katie, obviously, as mentioned obviously it's coming out of
the budget of the police.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
In relation to that, we don't specifically need the those
of specifics of obviously what was agreed to, but if
it's coming out of the budget and coming out of
the police operational budget, we need to know how much
of impact that's actually going to have on us.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Well, this is the thing that seems to make a
lot of sense to most everyday people. They're going, well,
hang on a second. You know, if it's coming out
of the operational budget, surely the Minister must know exactly
how much that is and how it's going to impact
the bottom line and the operations of day to day business.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Yeah, that's exactly right. How do they know it's going
to limit the impact to us if they don't actually
know the amount. I'm sorry, but it's reported to be
over six figures. In relation to that, it's a huge
part of our budget. It could be operational police officer
that's referred to remote housing, which we're struggling with as
well at the moment. If that's a settlement, it's in
relation to a court matter, it's an out of court settlement.
(02:58):
It shouldn't be coming from us. It see clearly coming
from the Slizz of the Northern Territory or the Northern
Territory government.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
Cory.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, I mean, do you think it's a bit bizarre
that you know that the minister has claimed that she's
got no idea of how much it is.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
Exactly exactly, Katie.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
They have to have an idea of how much it
is and how much is going to infect our budget.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Now when you talk about the day to day what
impact do you think that it is going to have
on the operations of the Northern Territory Police.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
It's just limiting our ability to obviously resource our police
force in other areas such as your remote housing. I've
just spoke about before. We need urgent repairs to remote housing,
to staffing levels. This could be put back into those
things that are more important at the moment.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
What were the rank and files saying to you last
week about that situation, because presumably quite a few of
them did actually hear that interaction that had unfolded, and
you know a lot of them are probably wondering exactly
what that payout was, and you know, knowing that there
is going to be confidentiality clauses there, but understanding then
that it had come from the police budget.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
If there is confidentially clauses in there, why I paid
it from the police budget. At the end of the day,
it's going to come out obviously during our budget situation,
through the police's budget. It's actually going to come to
light at the end of the day. If they wanted
to be confidential, they should have paid it confidentially through
the other means.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
And so, you know, were the rank and file saying
to you last week that they thought that this was
a pretty ordinary situation, or what would they say.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
They're quite frustrated.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Obviously they've got limitations about They asked for money on
a daily basis to assist us in doing our operational capacities.
But at the end of the day, if that they
can't get money for something else, and there's other money
being taken out without their knowledge or without their guidance,
and how are we going to manage a budget if
we don't know how much we got to manage, well,
not physically responsible.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
It did seem like a really bizarre situation I think
last week, and a lot of people are going to
be wondering this morning whether the Chief Minister is going
to be more open and transparent with some of those numbers.
I mean, do you hope that.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
She is definitely?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Definitely, Obviously she's going to have some hard questions this
morning and obviously her estimates this morning. Hopefully he comes
to the table and obviously amount wise, obviously it's confidential.
But at the end of the day, I think they
should have done it a little bit differently in the
way it's been carried out.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, Hey, let's talk about the information which was revealed
as well though around over time. Now, this is something
that really struck me. Members have worked one hundred and
fifty nine thousand hours of overtime in the financial year
to March thirty one. When you actually look at that
one hundred and fifty nine thousand hours, it's hard to
(05:28):
comprehend exactly what impact that is having then on officers
doing their jobs.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
That's just to do regular business, Katie. So that equates
obviously five hundred eighty hours. As we've discussed in our
media releases, it's seventy two additional police officers per day,
per day. That is hard to fathom. At the moment,
our resourcing issues are huge across the Northern Territory. This
obviously shows us that we need this seventy two members
per day. That's not including recreation and leave, long service
(05:55):
leave or anything else. That's just to meet the current demand,
not the future.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
How can that sort of cease as well in terms
of trying to do those day to day jobs When
you're having to pull in that many officers to do
overtime each and every day, like surely it says that
we do not have enough police.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
An example of that Cadie is obviously on the weekend.
Obviously at the Supercars, a number of the police officers there,
we're all on overtime even though it's a planned event.
So wow, it was just, yeah, it was confronting to
know that we need to this is core business for us.
Obviously the v eights obviously need policing as well in
every other event, but it's a planned event. It's a
planned annual event that we know about well and truly
(06:33):
in advance, but we're still rostering people on overtime to
meet this ability.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
It's like it is quite huge to think that, you know,
even on the weekend that you're in a situation where
everybody rostered on for the Supercars is they're doing overtime.
But then we keep getting told that we've never had
a bigger police budget and we've never had more Northern
Territory police. But is the situation really here that the
demands that we expect our police to sort of deal
with are increasing?
Speaker 4 (06:59):
Yeah, definitely, Katie, Definitely, the people that are ringing police
nowadays is extraordinary amount compared to obviously ten years ago.
The crime, as you know and you hear daily from
your viewers, it's through the roof, it's being reported on
that and we haven't got enough police officer.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
To deal with it.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
So what do you reckon, Like, do we just need
more police?
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Just need more police? But an urgent policing review needs
to be conducted straight away by the government. I know
they've committed to it. I know they're waiting for the
electronic rostering program to roll out. I can tell you
and your listeners now I actually worked on electronic rostering
project be prior to coming into this role. Now that's
not going to provide the information thereafter. So definitely it's
something they need to do now and be serious about
(07:40):
this because we are in a crossis situation here with
the resourcing and the Northern Territory Police.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, and look, I know that the figure around the
Police Commissioner is the thing that's really caught everybody's attention
and it's the real headline grabber.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
But for me, when I look at.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Those numbers of hours of overtime that police are doing,
and then when you take into account the Police Association
survey happened last year and the fact that you've got
police saying we really don't feel like there's enough of
us to do our job. I think what you're saying
there is an incredibly important point that that resource review
needs to happen. It seems sooner rather than later. You know,
(08:13):
the minister committing she committed to it, you know as
well on this show when we'd had her on during
the week that was, she had said that, yes, it
is going to happen. I'm pretty sure without paraphrasing her,
that she'd said that she wants it to happen before
the next Northern Territory election. But Nathan, from your perspective,
how quickly could they kick this off?
Speaker 5 (08:33):
How members can't wait any longer? Katie?
Speaker 4 (08:35):
We want a commitment from the Police Minister to review
commenced before.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
The end of this year.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
So before the end of this year you reckon, yep.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
But as soon as possible now. Tell me as well.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
You'd mentioned there that in your previous role you're working
on those electronic you know, working with the electronic rosterring.
Why why do they keep saying that that's required to
be able to do this review?
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Is it? No, it's not, definitely not, Katie. It's it's
not required at all. The electronic rostering system is just
electronic rostering based system where police can obviously have a
specific criteria of how they're logging on logging off. Okay,
we're actually very archaic in relation to the way they
do the rostering. Are currently Excel spreadsheets, so it's just
an electronic means to bring all the rostering together and
have easier access to.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
The rostering system.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
And so really they could be committing to this, like
how soon.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Straight away? Straight away, Katie, they should have commenced it already.
The information they've got currently on hand that the information
from the government is they have all the information they're
required to obviously go in and do this resource review
yp but they still haven't to start it.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
They have to haven't committed to it, Nathan.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
From your perspective, like, why is it so important that
the resource review actually happens, because I suppose to some
people listening they'll be thinking, oh, another review, is it
really going to make a difference. It just sounds like
we do need more police. If you look at those
numbers of overtime they're doing.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
We continually asks for resources. We'd like it fact cold
written down to show the members of the public that
we're not just going.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
We need more.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
We need more, We need more to do what we
need to do. It's to show the government were actually are.
We're screaming for resources, We're screaming for staff, and our
staff are at breaking point every single day they go
to work.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, mate, what's it been like stepping into the role?
You how long you been in there? Now?
Speaker 5 (10:12):
A couple of weeks hit.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
The ground running, only a few weeks you hit the
ground running or sprinting, Not that I sprint very much anymore,
but definitely hit the ground running. A lot of issues
to get your head around, obviously to get the background
knowledge of. But I'm glad I'm in the role obviously
currently supporting our members, and I've been out in the
field supporting our members for the last twenty years over operationally,
but now get the privileged to obviously serve our members
(10:34):
and obviously provide the best level of service we can
for our members and obviously out of community as well well.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
No doubt we'll be catching up with you more often.
Really appreciate your time this morning, Thanks so much. Thank
you to your listeners, And yeah, I know we've got
plenty of police officers that do listen to the show,
and I'm sure that you know, they are are keen
to get this resource review underway as well to determine exactly,
you know, I like to work out exactly what our
police do need and what areas they sort of they
(11:01):
need it.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Definitely, Katie, Definitely, and we'll keep pushing the issues on
behalf of our members to obviously maintain that they're wealth
supported out in the field and got the ability and
the resources to do the best job they possibly can
for the community as well.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
Absolutely well.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Northern Territory Police Association President Nathan Finn, thanks so much
for your time today.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
Thanks Katie, Thank thank you.
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