Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And well, as I mentioned, we know that on Friday,
I think it's safe to say that interview it stopped
people in their tracks. Now, Poppy Politis, she joined us
on the show to tell me about her mum, a
long time Territorian, a mom, a grandma, a great grandma,
being mugged in Nightcliff last week. Now, in an open
(00:21):
letter that Poppy has written to the Chief Minister, she says,
Chief Minister, regardless of what happens in the courts, the
fact that this is even happening in our own community
confirms the system is broken. You're in charge of a
political party that continually dishes up excuses under the guise
of protectionism and weak laws that do not provide any
(00:45):
consequences for the offenders. There's nothing to protect the general
public from what is simply disgusting behavior perpetrated on innocent
members of the community.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Why do we constantly.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
End up having to see the perpetrators paraded as the
victims when our focus should be on the actual victims themselves.
I think they're bloody good questions and their questions that
a lot of Territorians are asking at this point. Now
joining me on the line, is the police Minister Brent Potter,
Good morning to you, Brent, Good morning Katie. Thanks so
(01:19):
much for your time now before we get into what's
going on in Alas Springs. Were you as disgusted as
the rest of us by this attack on Poppy Politics's mother.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Sick and Katie? It was, there's no other word to
describe it. She didn't deserve what happened and no one
should be that victim. And you know you've asked me
for what success is the police minister looks like was
the response that police attended and when the time they
tended to. It doesn't change the behavior, but I'm glad
that when police were called, they attended within a very
short time.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Have you reached out to the family or has has
the government reached out to the family.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I've reached out to the family, that's correct, and.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
What's their reaction been, had.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
A callback that's a voicemail and show text through and
when they're ready to talk to me, more than happy
to sit down as well.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Now in this open letter which Poppy has sent to
the Chief Minister, I've just read part of that out.
She said, regardless of what happens in the courts, the
fact that this is even happening in our community.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Confirms that the system's broken.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
She questions the Chief Minister and the fact that she
says that she's part of a political party that continually
dishes up excuses under the guise of protectionism and weak
laws that do not provide any consequences for offenders. I mean, Brent,
you are now the Minister for Police. We know the
police are doing their jobs, They're getting out there, they're
(02:41):
arresting offenders.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Where is this breaking down?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Well, I think we'll see what happens with this offender
when they go to court and you know, you say
I don't get an sentence that is appropriate to the crime,
then we can look at it from there. But I
would what I would say, Katie, is I made a
couman when I came on your show to all police
officers support them, and I demonstrated that as through and
I'll continue to make change to make sure police are
supported to deal with these offenders. But that nineteen year
(03:05):
old was offended as I was apprehended, and they've been
sentenced to appear, so someone to appear in what I
out there and that's where they're from. So they've been
bailed out to that area.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Why is that person not fronting the court in Darwin.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
I actually think this is the best outcome for territories
people being sentence to it so someone to appear in
their community. There's two reasons people are waiting in town
to see you go before the local court. And they
might be waiting at a period of time there's all
the chance that they have the opportunity to offend again
with all the devices we see in the city. And secondly,
community needs to be part of the discussion and taking
responsibility and resolving these issues and changing behaviors. And I
(03:40):
think making people go back to their community to be
heard in their community is part of the justice process.
So I actually think this is a good outcome. Means
that person isn't in town causing a ruckus waiting for
the court come to be heard.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Minister. Are our seniors safe.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
They are safe, and it's tragic that this incident's happened
and it shines a light the issues we see in
the territory. You know, I know your listeners don't like
being told this is happening everywhere, but it is happening everywhere.
But we just happened to someone that we know and
that's why it's so disgusting and it needs to be
stamped out.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
It's not the first time that it's happened, and to
be frank we've had a number of people actually get
in contact with us since this incident's occurred, and so
Katie a similar situation with my mum or my grandma
at other locations. Why are we not warning senior territorians
that this is going on?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Well, I think because the fact is that if you're
a victim, it doesn't matter what age you are. The
impact that hasn't used the same. I think we see
different crimes at different times of the day. You know,
I've been down to Casarina recently and seen the behavior
there myself, and you know, as a police minister, it's
about resourcing and getting more resources on the ground. But
I think putting a warning out just for seen is
detracts from what is a risk for everyone. You know,
(04:51):
crime crime is a risk for every Territorian, as it
is for every Australia and every jurisdiction.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
So any Territorian could get mugged at any time of
the day or night and we all need to be prepared.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Well, no what I'm saying, Katie, is that how do
you determine what victim from what category deserves a warning.
I think we need to all be cognizant of what's occurring,
be cognizant of our surroundings, making sure that we're locking
our stuff up like we should, all the preventative measures.
And then what I've made at comminto toees is we
get in the resources they need to go and respond
to crime when it occurs.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, but I mean it's the government getting the point
people have had an absolute gutful, like we've all had enough.
How are we in a situation where an eighty five
year old woman is being mugged in broad daylight?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
We're in a situation because a nineteen year old and
if you'd a discussing behavior and they're the criminal, it's
their behavior that's brought this on no one else's and
they need to be how accountable At the end of
the day, this individual is the criminal that did the action.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
And it just doesn't seem to be getting better. Well,
you know, this is the whole point that Territorians are
trying to make. And I think that you know, when
you go and have a read of Poppy's letter, like,
it's the point that people are making that we don't
have less criminals than what we did ten years ago.
We seem to have more people committing criminal offenses. And
(06:01):
as she said in that letter, why do we constantly
end up having to see the perpetrators paraded as the
victims when our focus should be on the actual victims themselves.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Well, I'll never parade the perpetrator as a victim and not.
But I don't think.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Members of your cabinet, members of your cabinet, you know,
really quite the opposite. Are their beliefs quite the opposite
maybe to yours? And you just can't get some agreement
here that what's going on is bullshit.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Well, I disagree, Katie. I've never said even say that
we do have agreement. You don't want these criminals out
in the street offending and hurting people. What we probably
disagree with the opposition is the means to change someone's
behavior and get long term generational change. The prisons are full,
police are arresting people, and they're going before the court.
We really need to ask ourselves what's the caring in
community and in our homes and environments where vs are
caring and what can be done to address that, and
(06:50):
I think no other government.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Well we'll give you a bit of an example where
people are feeling frustrated. And Brent, I know that you
are not the Chief Minister, obviously you're pretty new to
the police portfolio. But example of where people are feeling
incredibly frustrated is, as we know, well, as we're told
on Friday, in this situation, you've got a nineteen year
old offender. You've then got two alleged twelve year old offenders.
(07:12):
What's happened with those twelve year old offenders?
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Well, in specific relation to this piece, I believe they've
been referred out of territory families and there's still investigations
on going, so there may be more outcomes that occur
from this. So I'm not going to say it's fine line,
but can.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
You see how that doesn't Can you see how that
doesn't even then being referred to territory families how And look,
I don't know the background, I don't know the ins
and outs of this, and I don't want to only
focus on this case because we know that it's not
the first and the only time that you know that
there's been a twelve year old offender and we will
get to something that you are doing in Allie Springs
at the moment, because I think it's a good, good measure.
(07:50):
But can you see how for a lot of Territorians
they're looking at this and going, well, we've now got
to twelve year olds allegedly involved in an incident like
this and there seems as though there is no consequence
due to the changing of that legislation by the government
(08:11):
that you're part of.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
So I've been very clear when i took this portfolio, Acadie,
I'm going to make change for police to get a
better outcome. Twelve year olds can be held criminally liable.
They will be charged and they should be taken to court.
Now in the instance of these two particularly youth, I
haven't seen the footage. I don't know the circumstances behind it.
There may be a valid reason why police haven't given
them a charge or basically holding them criminally accountable for
(08:35):
the action the nineteen year old has been for. I'm
not going to read into the detail because I just
don't know and I haven't seen the footage. What I
will say is police have the absolute ability to criminally
charge a twelve year old and above, and the expectation
is they're criminally accountable for the actions that they exhibit. Now,
so without talking this specific so I just don't know
enough of the football.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Well, let's step away from those specifics and let's talk
a little bit more about what options. There are actually
four kids that are under the age of twelve that
are committing criminal offenses. Are they actually in a situation
where they have to then, you know, be involved in
any kind of program or is it optional?
Speaker 3 (09:13):
So this is probably the best question for the territory
families my understanding, and this is why we've brought in
the correspondent model in our springs. You need to get
in early and get these kids in the programs as
soon as possible. You know, they say justice the latest,
justice not served. And in this instance, if we're not
getting the kids straight out of a program, that's an issue. Now, yes,
in some instances those programs are voluntary. But in saying that,
(09:35):
there's not just one program. If you don't complete that program,
well then that's it walk away. You know, nothing more happens.
We've got multiple programs and different kids will go to
different programs. But at the end of the day, the
twelve year old. Yep, they're criminally accountable. Underneath goes to
on track programs through Territory Families and kids will complete
programs and sometimes it may take a couple of programs
to get that change. Behave you've all got kids. Some
(09:56):
forms of discipline at home don't work for others as
they do for other kids. You have just got to
pick the right program for the right kid.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
But is that optional or is it mandatory?
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Well, it depends in some instances. If it's a family
Responsibility agreement, it's implemented, well, then the kids.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Have to complete, so it's not mandatory.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Well, depends on the KD. I can't say what every
program is or isn't. Like at the end of the day,
the kids need to complete the program they're given.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
But can you say that can you understand the frustration
from people? Can you understand the frustration from territorians.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Absolutely? And this is why my point is we need
to be putting it back on the parents and I
want to see greater accountability for parents and that's what
we're working towards at the moment, and the discussions I'm
having with the Territory Families Minister and Police at the
executive level is how can we get families more accountable
and involved in the seat at the table, because I
think if we really want to change an under twelve
year old's behavior, the parent has to be accountable. And
(10:47):
if the parent is unable to be the parent, well,
then we have the provisions under the youth just under
the Care and Protection Act of section fifty seven, we
need to be taking that kid into care. I think
that that is how we get around whether it's maniatary
not managery, is removing the kid from the environment and
then putting the intensive programs behind them when they're in
the care of the CEE from territory families. All right,
(11:07):
That to me is while we've brought the twenty four
seven child protection model in because I don't think that
part was working to best effect in kids were getting missed.
So now having twenty four to seven child protection on
is closing that gap and we're seeing a better outcome
of that.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Let's talk about that.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
You are obviously in Allie Springs at the moment on
Friday announcing that child protection workers who are set to
work alongside the police to take kids to a safe
place if they're found roaming territory streets. I'm unaccompanied at night,
so essentially Territory Family stuff are going to be on
deck from ten pm until six am Monday to Thursday
and twenty four to seven on other days under this trial,
(11:43):
which is set to run until the fourth of February.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
How long will this initiative?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
You know, like, how long are you expecting it to
take before you sort of see some change or you
see an easing I guess on the burden for police
having to currently do that.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Yeah, So what I got told from the commissioner today
when we did the master room briefing was a quite
over the weekend in Alice Springs and on the first
shift on Friday there was four youth that were brought
in that were brought straight to the Territory Famili's correspond
to model and I think the similar number on Saturday.
And then last night it was a bit colder analysis.
That was a quite a night. But that's exactly why
I wandered it because I knew there were significant numbers
(12:20):
of youth that were being dealt with by police and
ultimately wasting police resources and Territory Family is the best
place they're the social workers that their best place to
do this. Police aren't that. So we've seen that model
that's rolled out. I think it's going to be hugely
successful because they did those assessments that night. In some instances,
I've been told over the weekend they actually got the
night patrolling go and pick the parents up, and the
(12:41):
parents actually came in and they did that engagement right
then and there on the spot.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah. Look, I think this sounds like it's a good thing.
It does sound like common sense. Again, though I guess
people are going to be asking Brent, why hasn't it
happened sooner.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Well, I've become the minister for the last four to
five weeks. I haven't been capt previously. I can't talk
to it, but I heard it directly from the front line.
I committed to make the change. That's what I've done.
I did the same with the powers of the arrest
powers under one seven one of the grogack tipping out.
I've got them that last week in Parliament, two weeks
ago in Parliament. So when they tell me they want something,
they're getting it. We're making those.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Changes anything today.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
We are also we are also going to see the
opening hours at bottle shops being reduced. This is a
trial until the end of January. How do you think
this is going to help with the issues that we
are experiencing.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I think for those people that are problem drinkers, it's
going to impact them day to day. For everyone else
Monday to Friday, I think we're going to see a
very limited impact and they're not going to notice any different.
To be completely Frank Codie, twelve o'clock, ten o'clock. Most
people on a Monday to Friday day workers. But this
will absolutely impact those people that are problem drinkers. What
it will do for police over the summer period is
(13:49):
it will give them a reprieve. It will see an
easing of their demand on their calls to police, which
allows them to get int the proactive policing space. It
is a trial. It ends on Jane twenty fifth. I've
met with Alex and said the same thing to him.
This is a trial ending on the jan twenty fifth,
and it's a measure that supports police over Christmas. And
I know that some people are unhappy. To be completely frank, Katie,
(14:10):
we were criticized last year and alis we're not acting
fast enough. We've acted fast on the recommendation of police,
and that's where we've landed on this trial.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
I don't know that people are overly I don't think
that they're unhappy about the reduction of ours. I mean,
there definitely is some people that are unhappy about the
reduction of ours, particularly if you're trying to run a
business or if you are a worker whose hours are
going to be cut. But I think it was more
the fact that you guys didn't actually have those discussions
with Hospitality and told them a few days before it
wasn't going to happen, and then changed it.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
I acknowledge that Katie and I'm not shying away from that,
and from a policing point of view, those discussions we
had right up to when the decision was made. Including
the seven day band drink or order, I think that
that's been missed in out of all of this. The
fact that people must now be put on a band
drink or order for seven days if they found breaching
or they're drinking in a park or being drinking down
Mitchell Street outside of a license venue. I think that's
(15:01):
the best outcome out of this whole package, including the
change in times.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Now I have got a message here that's come through
from Deb She's wondering why that nineteen year old has
been bailed to face the water Air court. Obviously I've
already asked you about this, but she says that means
the victim's family can't attend as you need a permit
to go there. Also, it would restrict media reporting for
the same risk reason. If the crime happened in Darwin,
shouldn't it be heard here in Darwen?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It is that question.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Well, there's historical examples of when people are waiting in
town for court cases that there's a likelihood for re
offending that does happen. I think in terms of media attention,
it'll still get the same media attention regardless of where
it's heard, because it still gets all published and the media.
You can go out there, and if there's a permit
required for the family to go out then we're happy
to help facilitate that.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
We need to be getting people back in a community,
sentencing community so that there's an overall accountability. I think
if we're having people in town, there's unnecessarily people hanging
around them.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Have we lost you there, Brent, nah?
Speaker 3 (16:02):
I got your sorry. I don't know where did I
cut out? Then you need to repeat that.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
No, no, Well, so you're just telling us that people
can go out there to what. Look, I don't think
it is that easy for the media to go out there.
I think you do need to permit. You need to obviously,
you know, get approval to head out there.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
And what I'm saying is we're happy that if a
permit's required, then you know, through the victim's team within
AGD and the like, we can we can work out
those permits. But at the end of the day, we're
senting with summons to appear out and what I because
that's where the person's from, and we just know that
if people stay in town waiting for court, there is
a likelihood of further offending, and we want to remove that.
You know, it ultimately keeps the community safer. You know,
(16:40):
if you've got strict bail conditions and you bailed to
you where you live, and you someone's appear where you live,
then that's better for everyone.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Mines.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
So I do want to ask, I mean, you know,
on the face of it, it seems like you've stepped
into the portfolio, you're prepared to make changes that the
police want you are prepared to, you know, to get
some things moving in different areas we're previously had seemed
to stall. But then you know, we have got a
real concern from a lot of members of the community
(17:06):
at the moment. You know that the Labor Party is
very very left with a lot of the policies that
you've got in place. You know, the raising of the
criminal age is one of those areas that people had
a lot of concern.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Is there a rift.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Within the cabinet at the moment or is there you know,
a different line of thinking in the cabinet at the moment,
some of you realizing that you do need to make
some changes and you do need to make them fast,
and others, you know, really letting their ideological views stop you.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
I think that a chief made it pretty clear when
she did appoint to meet police and brought Joel in
that you know, I wanted to want to change in
direction and fresh thatt of eyes on things. And at
the end of the day, you know, this is one
of the issues that are affecting territories along with cost of living.
So you know, if incumbent on any government to listen
to their constituency and to act on those issues. I
(18:00):
think some people will never be happy that we've gone
far enough and others will say we've gone too far.
But I think sitting in the middle where we are
right now with these issues and being pragmatic is exactly
where we need to be. And supporting police. You know,
at the end of the day, I've said I will
support the police of view and the findings in that absolutely,
you know, because they're the ones doing the hairlifting at
the moment. And yeah, I can't do much more than
to live on the commitment that I made to them
(18:21):
as the minister.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
I mean, are there some members so of your cabinet
that aren't listening to the community's concerns.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
No, I wouldn't say that. I think everyone represents different
parts of the community and we need to have different
outcomes for different areas. I think, you know, you just
look at the sentencing around what that was a policy
that we've brought in around the Bush courts and community
sentencing and having local communit justice groups like we know
that that will change the long term offending in the territory,
but it will take time to see that. I know
(18:47):
people don't like hearing it because they feel unsafe right
now and they want to see change. But we've got
to have both. We've got to have the short sharp
measures right now and the long term justice check reform
that we need to so that people in community are
staying in the community and they're being senate in community
and they're working with community because at the moment, the
prison's are full, Katie, like police apprehending people in the
courts are sending some we need to get the reform
(19:09):
so they're not reoffending.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Well, Brent Porter, the Minister for Police, we are going
to have to leave it there. Appreciate your time this morning.
Thank you very much for speaking with us.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
No problems, Katie, thanks a lot.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Thank you
And well, as I mentioned, we know that on Friday,
I think it's safe to say that interview it stopped
people in their tracks. Now, Poppy Politis, she joined us
on the show to tell me about her mum, a
long time Territorian, a mom, a grandma, a great grandma,
being mugged in Nightcliff last week. Now, in an open
(00:21):
letter that Poppy has written to the Chief Minister, she says,
Chief Minister, regardless of what happens in the courts, the
fact that this is even happening in our own community
confirms the system is broken. You're in charge of a
political party that continually dishes up excuses under the guise
of protectionism and weak laws that do not provide any
(00:45):
consequences for the offenders. There's nothing to protect the general
public from what is simply disgusting behavior perpetrated on innocent
members of the community.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Why do we constantly.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
End up having to see the perpetrators paraded as the
victims when our focus should be on the actual victims themselves.
I think they're bloody good questions and their questions that
a lot of Territorians are asking at this point. Now
joining me on the line, is the police Minister Brent Potter,
Good morning to you, Brent, Good morning Katie. Thanks so
(01:19):
much for your time now before we get into what's
going on in Alas Springs. Were you as disgusted as
the rest of us by this attack on Poppy Politics's mother.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Sick and Katie? It was, there's no other word to
describe it. She didn't deserve what happened and no one
should be that victim. And you know you've asked me
for what success is the police minister looks like was
the response that police attended and when the time they
tended to. It doesn't change the behavior, but I'm glad
that when police were called, they attended within a very
short time.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Have you reached out to the family or has has
the government reached out to the family.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I've reached out to the family, that's correct, and.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
What's their reaction been, had.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
A callback that's a voicemail and show text through and
when they're ready to talk to me, more than happy
to sit down as well.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Now in this open letter which Poppy has sent to
the Chief Minister, I've just read part of that out.
She said, regardless of what happens in the courts, the
fact that this is even happening in our community.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Confirms that the system's broken.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
She questions the Chief Minister and the fact that she
says that she's part of a political party that continually
dishes up excuses under the guise of protectionism and weak
laws that do not provide any consequences for offenders. I mean, Brent,
you are now the Minister for Police. We know the
police are doing their jobs, They're getting out there, they're
(02:41):
arresting offenders.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Where is this breaking down?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Well, I think we'll see what happens with this offender
when they go to court and you know, you say
I don't get an sentence that is appropriate to the crime,
then we can look at it from there. But I
would what I would say, Katie, is I made a
couman when I came on your show to all police
officers support them, and I demonstrated that as through and
I'll continue to make change to make sure police are
supported to deal with these offenders. But that nineteen year
(03:05):
old was offended as I was apprehended, and they've been
sentenced to appear, so someone to appear in what I
out there and that's where they're from. So they've been
bailed out to that area.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Why is that person not fronting the court in Darwin.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
I actually think this is the best outcome for territories
people being sentence to it so someone to appear in
their community. There's two reasons people are waiting in town
to see you go before the local court. And they
might be waiting at a period of time there's all
the chance that they have the opportunity to offend again
with all the devices we see in the city. And secondly,
community needs to be part of the discussion and taking
responsibility and resolving these issues and changing behaviors. And I
(03:40):
think making people go back to their community to be
heard in their community is part of the justice process.
So I actually think this is a good outcome. Means
that person isn't in town causing a ruckus waiting for
the court come to be heard.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Minister. Are our seniors safe.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
They are safe, and it's tragic that this incident's happened
and it shines a light the issues we see in
the territory. You know, I know your listeners don't like
being told this is happening everywhere, but it is happening everywhere.
But we just happened to someone that we know and
that's why it's so disgusting and it needs to be
stamped out.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
It's not the first time that it's happened, and to
be frank we've had a number of people actually get
in contact with us since this incident's occurred, and so
Katie a similar situation with my mum or my grandma
at other locations. Why are we not warning senior territorians
that this is going on?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Well, I think because the fact is that if you're
a victim, it doesn't matter what age you are. The
impact that hasn't used the same. I think we see
different crimes at different times of the day. You know,
I've been down to Casarina recently and seen the behavior
there myself, and you know, as a police minister, it's
about resourcing and getting more resources on the ground. But
I think putting a warning out just for seen is
detracts from what is a risk for everyone. You know,
(04:51):
crime crime is a risk for every Territorian, as it
is for every Australia and every jurisdiction.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
So any Territorian could get mugged at any time of
the day or night and we all need to be prepared.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Well, no what I'm saying, Katie, is that how do
you determine what victim from what category deserves a warning.
I think we need to all be cognizant of what's occurring,
be cognizant of our surroundings, making sure that we're locking
our stuff up like we should, all the preventative measures.
And then what I've made at comminto toees is we
get in the resources they need to go and respond
to crime when it occurs.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, but I mean it's the government getting the point
people have had an absolute gutful, like we've all had enough.
How are we in a situation where an eighty five
year old woman is being mugged in broad daylight?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
We're in a situation because a nineteen year old and
if you'd a discussing behavior and they're the criminal, it's
their behavior that's brought this on no one else's and
they need to be how accountable At the end of
the day, this individual is the criminal that did the action.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
And it just doesn't seem to be getting better. Well,
you know, this is the whole point that Territorians are
trying to make. And I think that you know, when
you go and have a read of Poppy's letter, like,
it's the point that people are making that we don't
have less criminals than what we did ten years ago.
We seem to have more people committing criminal offenses. And
(06:01):
as she said in that letter, why do we constantly
end up having to see the perpetrators paraded as the
victims when our focus should be on the actual victims themselves.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Well, I'll never parade the perpetrator as a victim and not.
But I don't think.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Members of your cabinet, members of your cabinet, you know,
really quite the opposite. Are their beliefs quite the opposite
maybe to yours? And you just can't get some agreement
here that what's going on is bullshit.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Well, I disagree, Katie. I've never said even say that
we do have agreement. You don't want these criminals out
in the street offending and hurting people. What we probably
disagree with the opposition is the means to change someone's
behavior and get long term generational change. The prisons are full,
police are arresting people, and they're going before the court.
We really need to ask ourselves what's the caring in
community and in our homes and environments where vs are
caring and what can be done to address that, and
(06:50):
I think no other government.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Well we'll give you a bit of an example where
people are feeling frustrated. And Brent, I know that you
are not the Chief Minister, obviously you're pretty new to
the police portfolio. But example of where people are feeling
incredibly frustrated is, as we know, well, as we're told
on Friday, in this situation, you've got a nineteen year
old offender. You've then got two alleged twelve year old offenders.
(07:12):
What's happened with those twelve year old offenders?
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Well, in specific relation to this piece, I believe they've
been referred out of territory families and there's still investigations
on going, so there may be more outcomes that occur
from this. So I'm not going to say it's fine line,
but can.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
You see how that doesn't Can you see how that
doesn't even then being referred to territory families how And look,
I don't know the background, I don't know the ins
and outs of this, and I don't want to only
focus on this case because we know that it's not
the first and the only time that you know that
there's been a twelve year old offender and we will
get to something that you are doing in Allie Springs
at the moment, because I think it's a good, good measure.
(07:50):
But can you see how for a lot of Territorians
they're looking at this and going, well, we've now got
to twelve year olds allegedly involved in an incident like
this and there seems as though there is no consequence
due to the changing of that legislation by the government
(08:11):
that you're part of.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
So I've been very clear when i took this portfolio, Acadie,
I'm going to make change for police to get a
better outcome. Twelve year olds can be held criminally liable.
They will be charged and they should be taken to court.
Now in the instance of these two particularly youth, I
haven't seen the footage. I don't know the circumstances behind it.
There may be a valid reason why police haven't given
them a charge or basically holding them criminally accountable for
(08:35):
the action the nineteen year old has been for. I'm
not going to read into the detail because I just
don't know and I haven't seen the footage. What I
will say is police have the absolute ability to criminally
charge a twelve year old and above, and the expectation
is they're criminally accountable for the actions that they exhibit. Now,
so without talking this specific so I just don't know
enough of the football.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Well, let's step away from those specifics and let's talk
a little bit more about what options. There are actually
four kids that are under the age of twelve that
are committing criminal offenses. Are they actually in a situation
where they have to then, you know, be involved in
any kind of program or is it optional?
Speaker 3 (09:13):
So this is probably the best question for the territory
families my understanding, and this is why we've brought in
the correspondent model in our springs. You need to get
in early and get these kids in the programs as
soon as possible. You know, they say justice the latest,
justice not served. And in this instance, if we're not
getting the kids straight out of a program, that's an issue. Now, yes,
in some instances those programs are voluntary. But in saying that,
(09:35):
there's not just one program. If you don't complete that program,
well then that's it walk away. You know, nothing more happens.
We've got multiple programs and different kids will go to
different programs. But at the end of the day, the
twelve year old. Yep, they're criminally accountable. Underneath goes to
on track programs through Territory Families and kids will complete
programs and sometimes it may take a couple of programs
to get that change. Behave you've all got kids. Some
(09:56):
forms of discipline at home don't work for others as
they do for other kids. You have just got to
pick the right program for the right kid.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
But is that optional or is it mandatory?
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Well, it depends in some instances. If it's a family
Responsibility agreement, it's implemented, well, then the kids.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Have to complete, so it's not mandatory.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Well, depends on the KD. I can't say what every
program is or isn't. Like at the end of the day,
the kids need to complete the program they're given.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
But can you say that can you understand the frustration
from people? Can you understand the frustration from territorians.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Absolutely? And this is why my point is we need
to be putting it back on the parents and I
want to see greater accountability for parents and that's what
we're working towards at the moment, and the discussions I'm
having with the Territory Families Minister and Police at the
executive level is how can we get families more accountable
and involved in the seat at the table, because I
think if we really want to change an under twelve
year old's behavior, the parent has to be accountable. And
(10:47):
if the parent is unable to be the parent, well,
then we have the provisions under the youth just under
the Care and Protection Act of section fifty seven, we
need to be taking that kid into care. I think
that that is how we get around whether it's maniatary
not managery, is removing the kid from the environment and
then putting the intensive programs behind them when they're in
the care of the CEE from territory families. All right,
(11:07):
That to me is while we've brought the twenty four
seven child protection model in because I don't think that
part was working to best effect in kids were getting missed.
So now having twenty four to seven child protection on
is closing that gap and we're seeing a better outcome
of that.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Let's talk about that.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
You are obviously in Allie Springs at the moment on
Friday announcing that child protection workers who are set to
work alongside the police to take kids to a safe
place if they're found roaming territory streets. I'm unaccompanied at night,
so essentially Territory Family stuff are going to be on
deck from ten pm until six am Monday to Thursday
and twenty four to seven on other days under this trial,
(11:43):
which is set to run until the fourth of February.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
How long will this initiative?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
You know, like, how long are you expecting it to
take before you sort of see some change or you
see an easing I guess on the burden for police
having to currently do that.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Yeah, So what I got told from the commissioner today
when we did the master room briefing was a quite
over the weekend in Alice Springs and on the first
shift on Friday there was four youth that were brought
in that were brought straight to the Territory Famili's correspond
to model and I think the similar number on Saturday.
And then last night it was a bit colder analysis.
That was a quite a night. But that's exactly why
I wandered it because I knew there were significant numbers
(12:20):
of youth that were being dealt with by police and
ultimately wasting police resources and Territory Family is the best
place they're the social workers that their best place to
do this. Police aren't that. So we've seen that model
that's rolled out. I think it's going to be hugely
successful because they did those assessments that night. In some instances,
I've been told over the weekend they actually got the
night patrolling go and pick the parents up, and the
(12:41):
parents actually came in and they did that engagement right
then and there on the spot.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah. Look, I think this sounds like it's a good thing.
It does sound like common sense. Again, though I guess
people are going to be asking Brent, why hasn't it
happened sooner.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Well, I've become the minister for the last four to
five weeks. I haven't been capt previously. I can't talk
to it, but I heard it directly from the front line.
I committed to make the change. That's what I've done.
I did the same with the powers of the arrest
powers under one seven one of the grogack tipping out.
I've got them that last week in Parliament, two weeks
ago in Parliament. So when they tell me they want something,
they're getting it. We're making those.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Changes anything today.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
We are also we are also going to see the
opening hours at bottle shops being reduced. This is a
trial until the end of January. How do you think
this is going to help with the issues that we
are experiencing.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I think for those people that are problem drinkers, it's
going to impact them day to day. For everyone else
Monday to Friday, I think we're going to see a
very limited impact and they're not going to notice any different.
To be completely Frank Codie, twelve o'clock, ten o'clock. Most
people on a Monday to Friday day workers. But this
will absolutely impact those people that are problem drinkers. What
it will do for police over the summer period is
(13:49):
it will give them a reprieve. It will see an
easing of their demand on their calls to police, which
allows them to get int the proactive policing space. It
is a trial. It ends on Jane twenty fifth. I've
met with Alex and said the same thing to him.
This is a trial ending on the jan twenty fifth,
and it's a measure that supports police over Christmas. And
I know that some people are unhappy. To be completely frank, Katie,
(14:10):
we were criticized last year and alis we're not acting
fast enough. We've acted fast on the recommendation of police,
and that's where we've landed on this trial.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
I don't know that people are overly I don't think
that they're unhappy about the reduction of ours. I mean,
there definitely is some people that are unhappy about the
reduction of ours, particularly if you're trying to run a
business or if you are a worker whose hours are
going to be cut. But I think it was more
the fact that you guys didn't actually have those discussions
with Hospitality and told them a few days before it
wasn't going to happen, and then changed it.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
I acknowledge that Katie and I'm not shying away from that,
and from a policing point of view, those discussions we
had right up to when the decision was made. Including
the seven day band drink or order, I think that
that's been missed in out of all of this. The
fact that people must now be put on a band
drink or order for seven days if they found breaching
or they're drinking in a park or being drinking down
Mitchell Street outside of a license venue. I think that's
(15:01):
the best outcome out of this whole package, including the
change in times.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Now I have got a message here that's come through
from Deb She's wondering why that nineteen year old has
been bailed to face the water Air court. Obviously I've
already asked you about this, but she says that means
the victim's family can't attend as you need a permit
to go there. Also, it would restrict media reporting for
the same risk reason. If the crime happened in Darwin,
shouldn't it be heard here in Darwen?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It is that question.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Well, there's historical examples of when people are waiting in
town for court cases that there's a likelihood for re
offending that does happen. I think in terms of media attention,
it'll still get the same media attention regardless of where
it's heard, because it still gets all published and the media.
You can go out there, and if there's a permit
required for the family to go out then we're happy
to help facilitate that.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
We need to be getting people back in a community,
sentencing community so that there's an overall accountability. I think
if we're having people in town, there's unnecessarily people hanging
around them.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Have we lost you there, Brent, nah?
Speaker 3 (16:02):
I got your sorry. I don't know where did I
cut out? Then you need to repeat that.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
No, no, Well, so you're just telling us that people
can go out there to what. Look, I don't think
it is that easy for the media to go out there.
I think you do need to permit. You need to obviously,
you know, get approval to head out there.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
And what I'm saying is we're happy that if a
permit's required, then you know, through the victim's team within
AGD and the like, we can we can work out
those permits. But at the end of the day, we're
senting with summons to appear out and what I because
that's where the person's from, and we just know that
if people stay in town waiting for court, there is
a likelihood of further offending, and we want to remove that.
You know, it ultimately keeps the community safer. You know,
(16:40):
if you've got strict bail conditions and you bailed to
you where you live, and you someone's appear where you live,
then that's better for everyone.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Mines.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
So I do want to ask, I mean, you know,
on the face of it, it seems like you've stepped
into the portfolio, you're prepared to make changes that the
police want you are prepared to, you know, to get
some things moving in different areas we're previously had seemed
to stall. But then you know, we have got a
real concern from a lot of members of the community
(17:06):
at the moment. You know that the Labor Party is
very very left with a lot of the policies that
you've got in place. You know, the raising of the
criminal age is one of those areas that people had
a lot of concern.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Is there a rift.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Within the cabinet at the moment or is there you know,
a different line of thinking in the cabinet at the moment,
some of you realizing that you do need to make
some changes and you do need to make them fast,
and others, you know, really letting their ideological views stop you.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
I think that a chief made it pretty clear when
she did appoint to meet police and brought Joel in
that you know, I wanted to want to change in
direction and fresh thatt of eyes on things. And at
the end of the day, you know, this is one
of the issues that are affecting territories along with cost of living.
So you know, if incumbent on any government to listen
to their constituency and to act on those issues. I
(18:00):
think some people will never be happy that we've gone
far enough and others will say we've gone too far.
But I think sitting in the middle where we are
right now with these issues and being pragmatic is exactly
where we need to be. And supporting police. You know,
at the end of the day, I've said I will
support the police of view and the findings in that absolutely,
you know, because they're the ones doing the hairlifting at
the moment. And yeah, I can't do much more than
to live on the commitment that I made to them
(18:21):
as the minister.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
I mean, are there some members so of your cabinet
that aren't listening to the community's concerns.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
No, I wouldn't say that. I think everyone represents different
parts of the community and we need to have different
outcomes for different areas. I think, you know, you just
look at the sentencing around what that was a policy
that we've brought in around the Bush courts and community
sentencing and having local communit justice groups like we know
that that will change the long term offending in the territory,
but it will take time to see that. I know
(18:47):
people don't like hearing it because they feel unsafe right
now and they want to see change. But we've got
to have both. We've got to have the short sharp
measures right now and the long term justice check reform
that we need to so that people in community are
staying in the community and they're being senate in community
and they're working with community because at the moment, the
prison's are full, Katie, like police apprehending people in the
courts are sending some we need to get the reform
(19:09):
so they're not reoffending.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Well, Brent Porter, the Minister for Police, we are going
to have to leave it there. Appreciate your time this morning.
Thank you very much for speaking with us.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
No problems, Katie, thanks a lot.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Thank you
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