The Week That Was – 1st November 2024

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time for the week there was and joining me
in the studio today for the labor party. We have
got Duran Young, Good morning, Duran, be lovely to have
you in the studio. For the CLP. We've got Minister
Robin Carl, Good morning to you, Robin.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Good morning, Katie, Good morning everybody out there in this
beautiful build up morning.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
And Justine Davis for Johnson, good morning to you.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Hey Katie.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Hey ever now I say good morning, but we've been
on a walk this morning, stride for stroke with Crooksy.
I thought we're going to get taken away by some
mosquitoes along the Esphena there for a couple of minutes.
There's a lot of posies around. But g it was
for a wonderful cause, wasn't it. And Justine, I know
it is something that's that's very dear to your hearsh.

Speaker 4 (00:46):
Yeah. So, as I was explaining to Katie and talking
about with Crooksy, I had a stroke very unexpectedly a
couple of years ago.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
I was very lucky it was a mild stroke.

Speaker 4 (00:55):
I had incredible treatment here in our amazing public health system.
I can't talk highly enough about. But one of the things,
and one of the reasons I like to talk about
it is that this can affect anyone. I was really fit,
I had no risk factors, and totally out of the
blue didn't I didn't know what was happening. No one

(01:16):
really knew what was happening. Ended up having, as I said,
amazing treatment. So it's really good for people to look
out for the signs of stroke in yourself and in
people around you. So if if suddenly someone looks like
part of their they're lopsided, or their speech is slurred,
or anything that you might be concerned about around that,
then check it out straight away. Just what happened for me,

(01:38):
and yeah, came out the other end very lucky.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
Early intervention in stroke care is so critical. And how
amazing is Crooksy.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
I think an amazing guy to have gone through what
he's gone through and to go, actually, you know what,
I want to raise money for the Stroke Foundation through
this initiative, And yeah, it hats off to him.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
He's incredible and he wants to walk twelve k's for
the month, which might seem like it's not a huge amount,
but after you've had a stroke and you've relearned to
walk again, that is an absolutely incredible achievement. This morning
we walked. We ended up doing eighteen hundred meters. I
think we're only meant to do a bit shorter, and
we were smashed into it once we started walking and talking.
You know, you get distracted and you keep going. But

(02:19):
he's aiming to raise twelve thousand dollars. We reckon, he
can we reckon, we can help him get more than that.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
So I reckon we should be pushing the aim for twenty.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, Coon Territory, Inc.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
I agree. And look, Crystal has popped up I believe. Well,
she's going to a link on the MIXEDWANO four nine
facebook page and also, yeah, let people know a little
bit more about that on our facebook page. And just
before we get into the issues of the week, Justine,
you were talking while we're out walking and potentially committing
to getting back into running.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
Oh this is not getting back into Katie full disclosure,
not a runner, but as inspired by our morning walk,
thinking that might be something that I want to take gap.
So we thought we thought, I'm making it as well.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
On the show.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Maybe that's something I might do.

Speaker 4 (03:08):
So I think my hope, my commitment is that by
the end of my term. So four years time, I
can run five k's run out there. If you see
me judging along somewhere, you know, give you a cheer, give.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
You a bit of a two. Yeah. No, I think
you can definitely do that, and we'll keep We'll find
We'll get some updates from you each time I've got
you on the show.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
Just I like that.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
You know, it's about being accountable if you put it
out there, but it's also about people having your backup accountability.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
Absolutely absolutely. Well, Look, there has been so much happening
throughout this week. I feel like I say that every
single Friday for the week that was. But it's been
an incredibly busy week because the Northern Territory Department of
Corrections have been implementing emergency measures in response to a
rapid and continuing search in prisoner numbers across the territory's

(04:04):
correctional facilities and watch houses. Now Corrections said on Friday
last week that those prisoner numbers had reached a record
high of two three hundred and seventy, placing significant pressure
on facilities including Darwin's Correctional Center, Alice Springs Correctional Center
and the police watch houses. Now my understanding after discussions

(04:26):
with Commission of Vallei, is that the new youth center
is going to be opening. Well, I'm not sure whether
youth is starting to move into their today or on Monday.
Robin he's got.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
Very as soon as what I advised.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
And I guess the thing is that what we're seeing
is really the impact of what's been going on over
the last decade or so. And it's awful that you
find yourself in this position. And I have to commend
the correction staff for the work that they're doing to
keep things going.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
It's a really really challenging situation, and certainly the situation
the territory wants to find itself in.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Obviously, our clear and ultimate goal is to stop people
going from prison to prison and making sure that we
have pathways where that doesn't happen. And those people who
do find themselves on the wrong end of the law,
if you like that, we actually give them some really clear,
solid opportunities to get their lives back on tracks through
rehab and education. So there's a plan to make some changes,

(05:27):
We've only just recently announced it. The initial step is
we have to reduce the numbers of people in watchhouses
so we can actually deal with.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
What's happening in each of our communities.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
Obviously, we then need to create an environment where we
expand capacity, but we also absolutely the key focus is
rehabilitation education services.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
One of the things that we keep hearing really loudly
and clearly from parents, even from a grandma who's been
in contact with me, and I have discussed this before,
is that with our young people, you know, when they're
getting on that wrong track, that there actually isn't programs
for them, that there actually isn't the opportunity to get

(06:09):
them off that track and onto the straight and narrow. Now,
I've been told by one grandmother that her I believe
it was her twelve year old granddaughter or may have
been thirteen, that she'd then been referred to the Department
of Territory Families, but not heard anything for quite an
extended period. Now they have now been in contact with her,

(06:29):
is my understanding, but she, you know, like she was
sort of screaming out for some help.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Certainly, the very first thing I did in my very
first meeting with the CE of that department was asked
for a complete list of everything that we have on
the books in terms of programs YEP, and the organizations
that we're dealing with, what the funding looks like, what
the what the intent of those programs are, and which
ones are working and which ones aren't. And I've actually

(06:57):
spent the last three days in the Barclay in the
Springs region talking to businesses and community groups about what
we need to be doing. And I have to say
that overwhelmingly every community organization that I spoke to when
I explain to them what we're looking at because we
want to implement a wrap around service.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
I'm calling it.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
It's not official, but I'm going to make it official now,
Circuit Breaker program. The whole intention is that when a child,
whether they're ten or seventeen, hits the system, that there's
this process that will come in immediately, wrap around and
find out exactly what's going on, start working with the
child's family, look at the school situation, and look at

(07:39):
programs that we can actually then divert that child into
give them the opportunity to actually not go down the
wrong pathway. It's been a fair body of work and
we have identified some really good programs that with some
minor adjustments, will actually be able to do that. And
the response times will be absolutely critical, and that's something
that I've certainly am phasized with the department that we

(08:01):
have to get right.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
So one of the other things I was pretty surprised
by during the week is when speaking with the Northern
Territory Police, but also in one of the statements from
the Chief Minister earlier in the week, learning that of
some of those young people that had been involved in
a crime series throughout the week, some had had hundreds

(08:22):
of interactions with the Northern Territory Police. Now I want
to be really absolute and say that that doesn't mean
their arrests are charged. I don't know, you know what
that kind of what that history looks like, but hundreds
of interactions with the Northern Territory Police. But then I
also interviewed Dale Moltebarnard yesterday from Strikeforce Trident and he

(08:43):
had told us that of the five hundred odd prosecution
files that had been presented since July this year, there
had been over two hundred and fifty of those involved youths.
Over one hundred and thirty of those youths were on bail.
To me, there is you know, there is a lot
that is wrong with that situation when you look at it,

(09:05):
there's a lot of ways that we are failing when
I look at that situation. We're failing victims that continue
to be impacted by crime. You know, we're failing in
terms of if a child is already on bail, not
preventing them in some way from being able to continue
to offend. And and you know, I certainly am not

(09:26):
somebody who thinks put every kid in jail and throw
away the key.

Speaker 5 (09:30):
I do.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
I don't subscribe to that belief, and I don't think
anybody really in the community feels that way. But I
think we've all sort of reached a point where we're
so fed up with some of the crime that is
being experienced and the way that victims are being impacted, Katie.

Speaker 6 (09:44):
And this is the worry that you know, we're hearing
the CLP again talk about, you know, programs and interventions
when a young person hits the justice system. What we're
trying to do is actually build communities up. So what
we had in place, hoping that this continues under the CLP,
is local decision making agreements and that they be honored

(10:04):
over ten years. So what we did is we worked
with certain communities around their aspirations, and that takes time
to work with communities to understand what the actual need
is in those communities. We have a number of LDM
agreements in place in places like Amy Point, for example.
They've come out and go, look, we want to look
at how we educate our kids. We're looking at a

(10:26):
men's shared a women's center, new housing, which some of
those housing agreements housing hadn't been upgraded since the early nineties.
So it's actually looking at the longer term solutions. Otherwise,
if we're not doing that, we're not giving justice to
the community because we need to build those communities up.
Otherwise we're just going to see the revolving door in

(10:47):
and out, in and out, in and out.

Speaker 4 (10:48):
And I think, I mean, I think everyone agrees with that,
with what Durand's saying, with what Robin's saying, that we
need to address the root cause of crime. There are
not things. They're in place at the moment. They haven't
been for a long time. Those needs haven't been met.
It's really fantastic to hear this framing round. What we
need to do is put programs in place, make sure
that their diversion, rehabit cetera.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
That are appropriate.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
I've been lucky enough to have work to be able
to work with some of those LDN programs and work
with people in community and see them work really effectively.
So we need to make sure that we keep supporting them.
I think we still need to know, and I know
it's something you're working on, but we need to know
the detail of what this is going to look like.
I know there's a plan and we will hear the detail.
But people are coming into my office all the time

(11:33):
very similar stories to what you're talking about.

Speaker 3 (11:35):
Katie is saying, you know, I don't know what to do.

Speaker 4 (11:38):
I had a young woman coming in yesday. He said,
I don't want to get in trouble with the criminal justices.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
M I've got nowhere to go.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
No one's helping me.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
One of the first things, one of the first things
we actually have to do is because a lot of that,
well all the.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
Diversion of programs, at this point in tom we can't
make a child do that.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
It's not compulsory, and that's on the big issue. So
that requires a legislative change, which you're working on. But
one of the things that I found really disappointing was
the identification of yes, there are lots of programs in place,
and there is a lot of money being spent.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
But going to I'm not going to name the.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
Program, but there was one program that gets funded a
half a million dollars a year, and so that works
out about ninety thousand dollars a quarter in the last quarter,
had two children, two children referred.

Speaker 3 (12:21):
That's it. That's it.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
So there's clearly something broken in there that's not working effectively,
and that's what we have to unravel. So it's one
thing to say we've put programs in place, and certainly
when you look at the surface of it, there's multiple,
multiple organizations with lots of lots of programs, but the
process is to get those kids there. There's another program

(12:42):
where a police officer talked to me about the fact
that they tried to get help for a child on
a weekend, only to be told by that organization, I'm sorry,
we only work Monday to Friday.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
That's actually not good enough. That's what we have to fix.

Speaker 6 (12:55):
Going back, like, what are the preventive measures you're putting
in place, Because you're talking about programs A young person
touches a justice system, but we still haven't had a plan.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
I think from the government. I think there needs to
be long term plans. But I mean labor is going
to struggle in this space at the moment because the
community does feel as though you guys have failed them
for a long time.

Speaker 6 (13:16):
I understand that point, but there are you know, we've
seen great Eldio agreements out in Groode Island, for example,
where we've seen a reduction in crime of up to
ninety percent, but that took close to eight years, sorry,
six years. I believe it was first implemented in twenty eighteen,
and now we're starting to see the results of those programs.
When you work with the community and you put programs

(13:38):
in place where the community have a say in what
they want, you will see those reductions come over time.
So this isn't just a band. This isn't just fixed
it straight away overnight.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
And I'm not suggesting it is, I think, but I.

Speaker 7 (13:50):
Do need commitments from the government. But we do need
commitments from the government. Programs.

Speaker 3 (13:56):
You want to time, you want a time. You said
it took time.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
We've had eight weeks, you had eight years. Fears fair,
We've put information out there, we've said what the agenda is.
We absolutely and we're looking at what was implemented in
the past to see what we can actually put in place.
I think one of the best examples I can you
there's a framework in place for domestic sexual family violence.
It was implemented in twenty eighteen. It's a ten year

(14:22):
framework and over the last eight years, domestic sexual assaults
have increased across the territory eighty two percent. So clearly
what's in place is not having a significant impact. Often
the argument around that is that, oh, well, that's because
more people are reporting, which they absolutely are, but we
also know there are a lot of reports that are
not made, so one balance is out the other. So yes,

(14:44):
there are programs out there. Some are doing amazing work,
some are struggling, and they need to be able to
adjust and adapt to their environment.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
And that's what we're going to empower them to do well.

Speaker 4 (14:55):
And can I just ask Robin, what's the process going
to be of making these assessments, for example, around messic
sexual family violent services or services the.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
Young people, deciding what is and isn't effective. How are
you doing well?

Speaker 2 (15:07):
One of the first things you have to do is
look at what they were asked to do, and I
have to tell you it's pretty murky. A lot of
them are struggling because they're really not clear on what
it was they were meant to be doing. And so
how you do it is you talk to them, which
is what I've been doing.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
Look, I do just want to I want to touch
on I think, you know, I do think what you're saying,
Duran is valid in terms of having those local decision
making initiatives in place. But I think we've also reached
a point where we've got kids in Darwin, We've got
kids in Alice Springs, even in Catherine for example. You
know where they're falling through the gaps. They're slipping through

(15:41):
the gaps very badly and have been for quite some time.
There does need to be programs and there needs to
be support, but there also needs to be a situation
where if people are committing very serious crimes, that there
is absolute consequence to it. And that's something that I'm
hearing very loudly and clearly every single day on the
show that people do not feel that for the last

(16:01):
however many years, you want to say that there hasn't
been a consequence to some of the action that has
been happening within our community. I mean, the fact is,
though we have got prisons that are overflowing, and we
are in a situation now where the Department of Corrections
is having to take emergency action to deal with those numbers.
We are potentially going to see more people ending up

(16:23):
in the correctional system as a result of some of
the legislative changes. To be honest with you, the community
is not pushing back on that in a lot of ways.
They're saying, well, do you know what if you are
coming in and you're stealing a bus and then you're
getting around and filming it, and then you're going and
breaking into homes and businesses, we expect there to be
a consequence for that. I've heard anecdotally as well, and

(16:45):
I will not anecdotally. I've heard and been told pretty directly,
and I will not reveal that source. That we've got
a situation at the moment as well, where you know,
there are instances where the police are saying that they
do not think somebody should be bailed because they are
a danger or because they have said that they're going

(17:05):
to commit for the crimes, but then they are being
bailed only to get out twenty four hours later and
commit those same crimes, so.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
That the legislation that was passed mid in the first
sittings of Parliament is just now being a center to.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
So Declan's Law has been a center to.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
So that's the presumption against bail for violent offenders, and
it's also if you breach a bail that you know
that's it. You're not going to get bounced back out again.
And I think all of us would agree that for
a violent offense, it's definitely not okay to say to someone, oh,
that's all right. We know that you attack someone with

(17:44):
a machete or a knife or whatever it happened to be,
and we're going to let you out on bail because
that puts the community risk. And one of the things
that resonated me with getting around the community when in
the election campaign was one of the local business owners
who said, we deserve to be safe today, not next week,
not next year, but today.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
And that's what we have to work towards.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
And it seems simple in some of the solutions, but
they're very complex and we accept that and we have
to work together with the community. But we have the
foundation in place now to be able to work on
that and then the next foundation round will be how
do we actually get those programs in place to be
able to intervene much earlier.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
All Right, we might take a really quick break. When
we come back. There is still a lot to discuss
in this space, so we are going to continue this discussion.
You're listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.
It is the week that was if you've just joined us,
it is the week that wasn't in the studio with
me this morning. I've got Independent Justine Davis, we've got
Minister Robin Carl for the COLP, and we've got Duran
Young for the Labor Party. Now we know that the government,

(18:49):
the COLP government has now committed an additional one million
dollars in funding two NT Legal Aid in a bid
to help manage criminal trial caseloads. So the new money
is in addition to the contracted funding from the Attorney
General's Department, and the funding comes as a result of
really the discussions that have been had in recent weeks

(19:10):
and months about those concerns around the fact that Legal
Aid is going to need to cut back some of
those services due to their struggles. I suppose with additional
case loads. Now. We also know that the ABC was
reporting a little bit earlier in the week a report
by Samantha Dick that a man who appeared in the

(19:31):
Northern Territory Supreme Court in Darwin charge with serious offenses
was released on bail, partly due to uncertainty around whether
his trial could proceed. Now, the accused had previously been
denied bail due to the close proximity of his proposed
address to the complainant's residents. That's what the court had heard,
but the Justice said the ongoing uncertainty at legal aid,

(19:51):
combined with other factors such as the defendant securing a
new address and agreeing to comply with strict bail conditions,
had influenced her decision to ultimately grant him bail. So
there is a number of factors that play there. However,
you know, the fact that this person wasn't actually able
to get legal representation did also weigh heavy. And you know,

(20:15):
whether people like it or not, everybody is entitled to
adequish and good legal representation and to a fair trial.
So we've got to make sure we get this right.
There is no doubt about that. I don't know if
a million dollars goes far enough.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
That's a really good question, Katie.

Speaker 4 (20:30):
I mean, not only is everyone entitled to it, but
it's essential to make sure that our justice system operates
properly and that people are safe in our community. It's
great to hear that there's been a commitment to working
with Legal Aid to be able to keep funding them.
I've got that same question. Is a million dollars going
to be enough? Is that actually going to make a
difference to this guy in the doc last week.

Speaker 3 (20:51):
I don't know the answer to that.

Speaker 4 (20:52):
We know there's are really long term problems in terms
of funding and resourcing for Legal Aid. I had a
bit of a look at, you know, some of the
history that way back in twenty twelve in there and
your report, they were saying we do not have enough
resources to meet the demand. That hasn't changed over that
time so across both governments. So the actual need, the

(21:13):
needs of this legal service to provide good access to
justice for people in this community hasn't been addressed. So
I'd be really interested to hear about how the government
is working with Legal Aid and how and also to
address the long term funding issues because we know, and
you would know this Robin. From the conversations you've been
having with people in the sector, short term funding just

(21:34):
does not work. It doesn't work for services. It puts
really big including legal Aid, it puts big pressure on them.
It doesn't enable them to do their work properly and
to plan to meet the needs that we all know
are there.

Speaker 6 (21:45):
So yeah, sorry, yeah, I was just going to say, yeah,
reiterate what Justine had said. You know, this is an
issue around needs based funding, a matter of the political
situation at the time or the political parties that are
in and we know that up here it is well
with any state and territory. It's quite tricky because you know, we,

(22:08):
especially in the territory, we rely so heavily on the
federal government to fund us. So whether seal PAS in
government at the time or we're in government, you know,
we're always having to advocate to the federal government for
that needs based funding. But you know, I do want
to congratulate the government. They have given a million dollars
to Legal Aid, which you know we've been calling out

(22:28):
about two months ago to have that funding put forward.
So it's great to see that finally come. But whether
that will go farther far enough is a question to
be asked. You know, we've seen I guess the issues.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
As well as why didn't why didn't you guys provide
some further funding to them?

Speaker 6 (22:44):
Well, we have provided funding in the past when legal
aid had come to us, I believe on two occasions
in twenty two a couple of years ago, they'd come
to us. We provided one point nine million dollars when
they'd come to us in our so that need. So
that's why I question whether this is enough at one
million dollars, considering that, you know, we do have an

(23:06):
issue in our justice system. We've heard that it's bursting
at the steams in US, at the seams in a
correction system as well, and we rarely going to see
that extra pressure now with the movement of prisoners and
young people around correction systems.

Speaker 7 (23:22):
We saw.

Speaker 6 (23:24):
The criminal lawyers come out and say that this is
a real issue, especially with people on remand we have
people that you know, second third language can't have a
face to face conversation with their lawyers, which means lawyers
find it hard to get instructions to then, so that
we'll obviously see more people in the justice system not

(23:46):
fairly represented.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
And look, I'm going to catch up with with bathwild
from the Criminal Lawyers Association just after ten o'clock this morning.
There's no doubt that you know that we need to
sort this situation out. And I suppose you know not
only because we need to make sure that people have
adequate representation, but we also need to make sure that
things are moving through the legal system at a rate
that victims expect and that they deserve without question.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
And I think look, let's in terms of legal aid, the.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Elephant in the room is that the extra work that
they were burdened with was because we had Nacha in trouble.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
That was an issue that has now been resolved.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
They actually working, They've got a new CEO in place,
he's working, They're working really hard to actually get that
back on track, which is great.

Speaker 3 (24:29):
And legal aid and.

Speaker 4 (24:30):
That was an issue, but as I just said, since
twenty twelve, funding for legal aid has been previous to that,
so that that's something that's contributed.

Speaker 3 (24:39):
But that's certainly that's not the only issue.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah, there's lots of issues around that, and I think
you know the fact that you've talked about Beth Wilden,
the comments that she's made is this is something that
she is in the making, and it is a reflection
on what happens in our community. What in the past
has been a challenge in terms of looking at how
we manage.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
Criminal activity, how we deal with offenders.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
And I think think one of it, there have been
some fabulous programs that have been put in place over the.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
Years that have stopped for various reasons.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
I think one of my pet things is that if
you've got a program that is working, then you keep
it going.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
You actually keep it going.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
So the issue with legal Aid, the initial funding is
just the short term. There's a lot of work being
done with Legal Aid, specifically by the AG to actually
look at what the long term solution is.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
In terms of the broader discussion on this, we've been
We've just spoken about the fact that we've got our
prisons bursting at the seams. There's forty one percent of prisoners,
if I remember what Matthew Valley had told me earlier
in the week, correctly, forty one percent of prisoners are
on remand so if we're able to sort of, you know,
if we are able to speed things up or to
get things moving within the courts, what kind of difference then,

(25:46):
do you think that that might potentially make in terms
of our correctional facilities. I mean it could see people
locked up.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
That's I don't know absolutely right, that's the border is shirre.
Why is it taking that? What is it that's causing
the blockages? Why can't we get those through?

Speaker 1 (25:58):
It we stopping?

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Well, that's the work that's currently being done with the
AG and part.

Speaker 4 (26:03):
Of it is complete under resourcing of the legal system
and the court system, so they just cannot get through
these cases.

Speaker 3 (26:10):
And I think, I mean, I know.

Speaker 4 (26:11):
I've said this on this show before, but this is
just some talking to people in my community. I want
people to understand because we don't Remand does not mean
you've been found guilty of a crime. It means that
you're in the system sometimes and I've heard these stories
from people, sometimes for years waiting for your time in court,
sometimes for incredibly minor like not well, incredibly minor alleged

(26:36):
thank you Robin, like stealing and can Cooke.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
I heard a story about a guy who's.

Speaker 4 (26:41):
Been in Remand for more than two years waiting for
his day in court, Like it's just ridiculous that happens
and one of the reasons is because of the huge
under resourcing of our court system. And the other thing
is that these are not people who need to be
in prison. These are not people who need to be
locked up, who need to be using our resources. And

(27:04):
as Duran said, some of the changes, for example moving
children and young people from Alice Springs to Darwin, we
are going to see much more children here in Romand
because they're not going to be able to access proper
legal services, and that's going to delay.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
Their access to justice. That's what all the levels service.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
That's why we're looking at what the opportunities are, particularly
for the lower end defenses like selling a can of coke.
I mean, I would be digging into the facts of
that because we hear lots of.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
Anecdotal stories and urban myths.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
But the issue is that if we can find alternate
ways for people who are on remand so obviously serving
that being on remand in the community with electronic monitoring
is one of the really important things that we're looking at, expanding,
looking at where people can't be monitored in community because
you don't have the coverage where you can actually pick

(27:55):
up the electronic monitoring. What are the alternatives for that,
What are the options for them to stay not in
a watchhouse or not in a prison, but to be
reminded somewhere safe and looked after in the community. So
there's a very very broad range of options being looked at,
and lots of consultation being done with the people on
the ground who are dealing with this, other organizations that

(28:16):
might be able to assist. And certainly that's where some
of the work that I'm doing is coming into play,
working across Youth Justice with Minister Edgington and Housing for
Minister Edgington.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
And with Minister Meili.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
That means that we can all work together collaboratively to
get a solution for this.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
Well. Look, we certainly need to find some kind of solution.
I know we like the community is at the point
I think we're there demanding us. You know, people want
to see some real change in this space, and a
lot of people are very switched on and understand that
it's a pretty broad sort of issue that we've got
at the moment.

Speaker 4 (28:49):
I think that's really true, Katie, when you just said before, Look,
you're not someone who wants to see kids locked up.
When I talk to people, you know, during the campaign
and in my community. Now, people understand these are complex issues.
People understand that it's not just a matter of you know,
locking up kids throwing away the key. They understand that
we need to address the drivers. What's happening, you know, housing, poverty,

(29:09):
education and all of those things. And people are coming
and saying to me, now, so what's happening. There's all
these big new laws which are just about locking more
people up. What's actually happening. The urgent thing is what's
going to happen to be addressing what's driving that.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Look, I will say from my perspective, you know, I
do believe that if people are committing very serious crimes,
then they do need to face consequence to that. And
I know that we've got a message here that's come
through from Mac in Durragon. He said, Good morning, Katie
nt Labor have said that locking up youth is not
the solution, but youth having over one hundred involvements with

(29:44):
police proves that their solution doesn't work. At some point,
they either need to be locked up or they need
to get assistance and education. So you know, that's some
of the that's the sentiment within the community.

Speaker 6 (29:57):
Yeah, and look, and we saw that data come out
between from the Chief Minister about I can't remember the
exact numbers, but the interactions that they'd had with the
police force. But you know, there was no actual breakdown
of what the interaction was. An interaction could be that
a police goes up to a kid, hello, how are
you Are you okay?

Speaker 7 (30:15):
Do you need assistance?

Speaker 6 (30:16):
That's an interaction they need to be broken down, but
we haven't. They haven't been clear and open exactly what
those interactions are. But the ultimate ultimately, when I'm speaking
to people, I was at the Barry Swings Markets on Sunday,
a few people raised with me they were concerned about
kids being criminalized, being locked up in the justice system,
which they know people in the community know that's going

(30:38):
to be a revolving door, so they were quite concerned
about these laws. I'm speaking to people all over my lecture.
I haven't heard one person say to me they want
a ten or eleven year old kid locked up, but
been so.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
To you that they want those that are committing offenses
to actually face consequence, because I think that's really.

Speaker 6 (30:56):
We've got to look at the difference between a consequence
and criminalizing a ten year old kid. They're two different
arguments there. So do you con looking at.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
A situation because I know what you said, they're about
the interactions with police, So I get what you're saying
about that, But do you did you also hear the
fact that I believe it was four of those children
actually had ankle monitoring bracelets on and were on bail.
That's really like, that's actually.

Speaker 7 (31:25):
Something that kids where they lowered the age of criminals.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
But you were talking, But you were talking then about
those interactions, and so that's.

Speaker 7 (31:31):
Where I go back to the interactions for ten old kids.

Speaker 6 (31:34):
The SEP actually haven't broken down what those interactions from.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
The press release this week or from the kids that
the present, They weren't ten to eleven, they were thirteen.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
So I think we need to get those facts correct
as well.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
Look, the bottom line is, I will repeat it, this
is not about putting ten, eleven, twelve for any kid
in prison in jail.

Speaker 7 (31:55):
The age were responsibility.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
If we can avoid at what we have had repeatedly
fed back to us from organizations, you try and deal
with these younger kids from the police who interact with
these kids, returning those kids to a responsible adult, which
is mythical. The responsible adult is the person they have
run away from in the first place. That is the
only option police have had up until now with those

(32:20):
young kids. But now we are putting a program in place,
and it's almost there where they can then actually take
that child somewhere safe where they can be fed, clothed,
and kept if it's in the middle of the night,
somewhere safe, somewhere to sleep, so that the next morning,
childrens and families can then come and work with that child,
that child's family, with that child's school and look to

(32:43):
see how we can actually get that kid off the
track that they're on. And the fact is, until you
can actually have a framework to make that happen, you
can talk about it till you're blue in the face.
It's really the revolving door that we're really seeing the
consequences of is taking that child back to the place
they're running away from.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Look, we are going to have to take another break.
You're listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.
When we come back, we might take a bit of
a change of pace and talk a little bit about
this territory coordinator role. You are listening to the week
that was and look, a lot of discussion dominated this
morning by the crime that we saw throughout the week
as well as the prisons overflowing and the funding for
legal aid. But I do want to just head across

(33:25):
and have a bit of a chat about the Territory
Coordinator role.

Speaker 5 (33:27):
Now.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
I know that the Opposition has raised some concerns about this,
saying that a secret document was uncovered that it's titled
the Territory Coordinator Consultation Paper. It's been quietly provided to
only a handful of stakeholders and it outlines the new
powers for ministers and the Territory Coordinator when approving projects,

(33:48):
including step in powers to undertake any assessment process and
make the final decision for that assessment. Now, Justine, you
and I spoke about this a little bit earlier in
the week. You've got some concerns around on this role
as well.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
Absolutely, I think the I mean, my first concern is
as always about process. As you said, this was a
consultation paper that was provided to we don't know who
we asked in Parliament. I'll tell you, yep, yeap. Now
it's now open and I just encourage anyone who wants
to have a look at it. It's you can get

(34:22):
hold of it. If you can't get hold of it,
get in touch with me. I'm happy to send it
to you. A lot of people have been asking me
for a copy of it so they can see what
it actually says. I'd be really interested to hear from
Robin about what the process is going to be from
here around consultation input in relation to it. I was
very happy to hear the Chief Minister say on the
radio earlier this week that it would not be rushed through,
that there is going to be time to properly consider it.

(34:44):
And the reason I'm happy to hear that is that
for me, these are actually.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
Quite terrifying laws.

Speaker 4 (34:50):
They or not laws, a proposal which vess like pretty
much unlimited power in an unelected bureaucrat to do things
that there is similar legislation and other places in Australia,
none of it goes this far. What you're just talking
about about the step not the step up, the powers
and the override powers. What that means from my understanding

(35:15):
of looking at it, is that really this person can
do pretty much whatever they want about whatever they want.
And so I've got really big concerns about that and
it's not just of course we've got concerns about the
impact of that on our environment and we need to
worry about that, but it's not only going to potentially.

Speaker 3 (35:33):
Impact on an environment. That's going to impact on.

Speaker 4 (35:36):
Things like worker safety, on air quality, on many things
like that. So I've got and people that I'm talking
to have really big concerns about it.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
So it's not a secret consultation if you actually put
a consultation paper out to groups, and I can tell
you the groups, and it was four or five pages
of names and organizations that included the people like the
Land Council's Local Governments, Environment Protection Age and see Controller
for Water Resources, Heritage Council, Business, there's a whole list

(36:05):
of people who always have well memory, there's actually there's
more than twelve, but I can't give you the full
list because I don't have it in front of me.
But the reality is, as Justine's already said, it's legislation
that exists in other places, and we've talked about it
because we've talked about it consistently through the election campaign
that this was something that business and the reason we're

(36:26):
looking at this is because businesses have repeatedly said we
can't do.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
Business in the territory because of the blockages.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
And some of the examples are you might have a
project that will touch on five different departments and they
have to repeat the exact same process for every single department.
You might have projects that have Commonwealth regulations that replicate
our regulations, and so they meet the Commonwealth regulations, but

(36:54):
then they have to do the same thing again for
our regulation. So it's really about creating an environment where
business can actually stay.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
On track for their projection. It's not about someone stepping
in and going I'm going to take over this process.
It's only when process is straw and we can't get
things progressed.

Speaker 7 (37:12):
Yeah. Look, let's be very clear here.

Speaker 6 (37:14):
This wasn't made This paper wasn't put forward to the public.
It was only for a select group of organizations and businesses,
as Robin just laid out when the question was put
in Question Time last week. Lea tried to fluff around
it and say it was made public, but the fact
of the matter was the Territory Coordinator consultation paper wasn't

(37:37):
anywhere to be found online. Usually when you go and
do a consultation, it would go up online so that
the public can look at that then put submissions into
this paper. So what's very concerning is it wasn't made public.
It wasn't the government wasn't being transparent about this consultation paper.
And yet Lea's trying to say that she come out
now the leader of the opposition leader then able that

(38:00):
consultation paper alongside so it could be made public and
people could look at it.

Speaker 7 (38:06):
Then I've never seen it before.

Speaker 6 (38:08):
But then later that night the Chief Minister came in
and didn't the German to explain her government's position on this,
Like if it was made public there would have been
she wouldn't have come in to explain herself.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
So there was something of it dodgy that had gone off.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
Well, there was nothing dogie going on anywhere.

Speaker 7 (38:26):
It's something that's been talked, was not made public.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
I've worked in government in the past and it's not
unusual for an initial consultation to be done on a concept,
to get information together to then progress it.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
So then I think what.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
We really need to understand is that to do this
you've got to have a starting point, and there's never
been a secret made that this was something that was.

Speaker 6 (38:46):
I'll just finish on the point that the submissions that
were going to be put into this paper were supposed
to be finished on the first of November, so that's today.
This was only found out last week. So the government
did have every intent to bring this consultation paper in
with a draft bill into November that no one had

(39:06):
ever seen except for a select group of people. Now
that it's been exposed, that's opened. That's opened it up
for the public to have a to have a look
at it, put their submissions in as well. But this
was definitely secret, secreted from the government and they were
definitely hiding it.

Speaker 4 (39:23):
And can I I just said Rob, and I just
heard you say again that it's the beginning of a
consultation process. So I just want to I just want
to ask again, is this going to be brought on
urgency to the next Parliament. What is the process from
here for consultation and input into this bill.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Well, the process is that the feedback that we get
from the consultation will be taken into consideration to finalize
the drafting of the legislation, and then the legislation will
follow the normal course of business.

Speaker 4 (39:48):
It might be past an urgency which is the normal
course of business is that things are not pushed through
on urgency.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
So it will be available for people to review and
then it will follow the normal course of business, which
is tabling.

Speaker 7 (40:01):
And then so when will it be introduced to Parliament?

Speaker 2 (40:04):
Well, that will depend on the parliamentary time frame moment,
and that's out of my control.

Speaker 6 (40:11):
Sorry, that's out of makeup on that point. It is
an out of your control. You're in government, you're a minister,
Well it's out of minister. So you will see the
draft paper come to cabinet, then it will be introduced
to Parliament. So when will it be introduced Apartment? We've
got sittings in November.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
Will it be introduced in I can't tell you what
the schedule is for November.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
At this point, I just want to say I think
it's going to be a tricky balance here because there
is no doubt that for the past several years there's
been no major projects get across the ground or get
off the ground. We've been told that there's a lot
of green shoots, but there doesn't seem to have been
a lot of action when it comes to you know,
different projects. And let's be real, if we want to
get the economy moving. We do need to get things

(40:50):
taken along. However, I think what needs to be what
we need to be quite careful about is you know,
it's all well and good to have a position like
this there and ready to go, and I think that
that's fair enough. The government was very open about that
throughout the election process. But we do need to make
sure that we're cautious or I guess that we've got
some really clear guidelines and not just guidelines, but some

(41:15):
regulations in place as to how this is going to work,
because you know, we don't want a situation where people
are overstepping the mark, or we get somebody in this
role who maybe doesn't do what is the expectation I
think everybody.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
The critical thing is the Chief Ministers said that we're
not going to rush this. It is going to follow
the process. People are going to be able to have
the opportunity to have a look at it and feedback
on it. I don't have the schedule for this coming
sittings because it's still being finalized.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
If I had it, I would tell you, but I
don't have it.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
And the reality is, as you've just said, Katie, our
economy is stagnating, and I've actually talked to a lot
of business who are desperate to get things moving. And
I've also had the opportunity to talk to some of
our Asian neighbors in my portfolio of Asian relations, who
are so enthusiastic stick about doing business with us, but
have been very concerned in the past about how long
and how complicated it's been, and.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
We can't afford to do that. We have to if
we want it.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
We talk about kids and youth and crime and opportunities.
If there's no business happening, then there's no opportunities for
them as well. And repeatedly I've heard stories about big
corporations who've come in to do tendering projects for business
that has been on the table, who then engaged with
our local indigenous businesses, so they tick boxes about being

(42:32):
doing business with out indigenous community to only then come
in and not actually involve those businesses. So what we
want to do is make sure that there's absolute clarity
about what the expectations are. We want to make absolutely
certain that everyone knows how the process will work and
will make it so business know that if they commit,
then they're going to be able to deliver.

Speaker 6 (42:51):
There is clarity on Aboriginal businesses. Now we have the
Northern Territory Indigenous Business Network with one of the procurement
policies around ensuring that they are Aboriginal businesses.

Speaker 8 (43:03):
As Robin said that, we well, they certainly they the box,
they do the business.

Speaker 6 (43:09):
They do, and we've seen that are being very successful
with nt IBN ensuring that it is an Aboriginal owned
businesses because we know when Aboriginal people, when Aboriginal businesses
operate well they operate, they will always employ Aboriginal people,
and that's what we're seeing through nt IBN to make
sure it's not just a tick inflict. They have very
clear processes in place to ensure that they are Aboriginal businesses.

(43:31):
So to come in here and blame Aboriginal businesses.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
I wasn't blaming Aboriginal businesses. I was blaming the major
corporations who are actually not delivering on their commitment to
work with our Aboriginal businesses.

Speaker 3 (43:41):
Which exactly do I.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Have to take a very quick break. The hour is
running out quickly. You are listening to Mix one O
four nine three sixty, you are listening to the week
that was, and look a lot of discussion, dominated this
morning by the crime that we saw throughout the week,
as well as the prisons overflowing and the funding for
legal aid. But I do want to just head across
and have a bit of a chat about the Territory

(44:05):
Coordinator role.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
Now.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
I know that the Opposition has raised some concerns about this,
saying that a secret document was uncovered that it's titled
the Territory Coordinator Consultation Paper. It's been quietly provided to
only a handful of stakeholders and it outlines the new
powers for ministers and the Territory Coordinator when approving projects,

(44:26):
including step in powers to undertake any assessment process and
make the final decision for that assessment. Now, Justine, you
and I spoke about this a little bit earlier in
the week. You've got some concerns around this role as well.

Speaker 4 (44:39):
Absolutely, I think the I mean, my first concern is
as always about process. As you said, this was a
consultation paper that was provided to we don't know who
we asked in Parliament. I'll tell you yeah, yeah. Now
it's now open and I just encourage anyone who wants
to have a look at it. You can get hold

(45:00):
of it. If you can't get hold of it, get
in touch with me. I'm happy to send it to you.
A lot of people have been asking me for a
copy of it so they can see.

Speaker 3 (45:06):
What it actually says.

Speaker 4 (45:08):
I'd be really interested to hear from Robin about what
the process is going to be from here around consultation
and input in relation to it. I was very happy
to hear the Chief Minister say on the radio earlier
this week that it would not be rushed through, that
there was going to be time to properly consider it.
And the reason I'm happy to hear that is that
for me, these are actually quite terrifying laws. They are

(45:29):
not laws, a proposal which vests like pretty much unlimited
power in an unelected bureaucrat to do things that there
is similar legislation and other places in Austratia, none of
it goes this far.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
What you're just talking about.

Speaker 4 (45:44):
About the step, not the step up, the step in
powers and the override powers.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
What that means from my understanding of.

Speaker 4 (45:53):
Looking at it, is that really this person can do
pretty much whatever they want about whatever they want. And
so I've got really.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
Big concerns about that.

Speaker 4 (46:05):
And it's not just of course we've got concerns about
the impact of that on our environment, and we need
to worry about that. But it's not only going to
potentially impact on an environment. That's going to impact on
things like worker safety, on air quality, on many things
like that. So I've got and people that I'm talking
to have really big concerns about it.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
So it's not a secret consultation if you actually put
a consultation paper out to groups, and I can tell
you the groups, and it was four five pages of
names and organizations that included people like the Land Council's
Local Governments, Environment Protection Agency, Controller for Water Resources, Heritage Council, Business,

(46:42):
there's a whole list of people who always well memory,
there's actually there's more than twelve, but I can't give
you the full list because I don't have it in
front of me. But the reality is, as Justine's already said,
it's legislation that exists in other places, and we've talked.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
About it because legislation.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
We've talked about it consistently through the election campaign that
this was something that business and the reason we're looking
at this is because businesses have repeatedly said we can't
do business in the territory because of the blockages, and
some of the examples are you might have a project
that would touch on five different departments and they have

(47:19):
to repeat the exact same process for every single department.
You might have projects that have Commonwealth regulations that replicate
our regulations, and so they meet the Commonwealth regulations, but
then they have to do the same thing again for
our regulation. So it's really about creating an environment where
business can actually stay on track for their projection. It's

(47:42):
not about someone stepping in and going I'm going to take.

Speaker 3 (47:44):
Over this process. It's only when process is stall and
we can't get things progressed.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Sun.

Speaker 7 (47:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (47:50):
Look, let's be very clear here. This wasn't made This
paper wasn't put forward to the public. It was only
for a select group of organizations and businesses, as Robin
just laid out when the question was put in Question
Time last week. Leah tried to fluff around it and
say it was made public, but the fact of the

(48:11):
matter was the Territory Coordinated Consultation paper wasn't anywhere to
be found online. Usually when you go and do a consultation,
it would go up online so that the public can
look at that then put submissions into this paper. So
what's very concerning is it wasn't made public. It wasn't
the government wasn't being transparent about this consultation paper, and

(48:32):
yet Lea's trying to say that she come out now
the leader of the opposition leader then tabled that consultation
paper alongside so it could be made public and people
could look at it.

Speaker 7 (48:44):
Then I've never seen it before.

Speaker 6 (48:46):
But then later that night the Chief Minister came in
and didn't a German to explain her government's position on this,
Like if it was made public there would have been
she wouldn't have come in to explain herself.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
It was bit dodgy that had gone off.

Speaker 3 (49:02):
Well, there was nothing dogie going on anywhere. It's something
that's been taught.

Speaker 7 (49:06):
Was it not made public.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
I've worked in government in the past and it's not
unusual for an initial consultation to be done on a concept,
to get information together to then progress it.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
So then I think what.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
We really need to understand is that to do this,
you've got to have a starting point, and there's never
been a secret made that this was something that.

Speaker 5 (49:24):
Was I'll just finish on the point that the submissions
that were going to be put into this paper was
supposed to be finished on the first of November.

Speaker 6 (49:34):
So that's today. This was only found out last week.
So the government did have every intent to bring this
consultation paper in with a draft bill into November that
no one had ever seen except for a select group
of people. Now that it's been exposed, that's opened. It's
opened it up for the public to have a have
a look at it, put their submissions in as well.

(49:57):
But this was definitely secret, secreted from government and they
were definitely hiding it.

Speaker 4 (50:01):
And can I just say, Rob, and I just heard
you say again that it's the beginning of a consultation process,
So I just want to I just want to ask again,
is this going to be brought on urgency to the
next Parliament. What is the process from here for consultation
and input into this bill.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
Well, the process is that the feedback that we get
from the consultation will be taken into consideration to finalize
the drafting of the legislation, and then the legislation will
follow the normal course of business.

Speaker 4 (50:26):
Past an urgency, which which is the normal course of
business is that things are not pushed through on urgency.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
So it will be available for people to review and
then it will follow the normal course of business, which
is tabling.

Speaker 7 (50:39):
And then so when will it be introduced to Parliament?

Speaker 2 (50:42):
Well, that will depend on the parliamentary time frame moment,
and that's.

Speaker 3 (50:46):
Out of my control.

Speaker 6 (50:49):
Sorry, that's out of my point. It isn't out of
your control. You're in government, you're a minister. Well, it's
a minister. So you will see the draft paper come
to Cabinet, then it will be introduced to parliament. So
when will it be introduced apartment we've got settings in November?

Speaker 2 (51:04):
Will it be introduced in I can't tell you what
the schedule is for November.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
At this point, I just want to say I think
it's going to be a tricky balance here because there
is no doubt that for the past several years there's
been no major projects get across the ground or get
off the ground. We've been told that there's a lot
of green shoots, but there doesn't seem to have been
a lot of action when it comes to you know,
different projects. And let's be real, if we want to
get the economy moving, we do need to get things

(51:28):
taken along. However, I think what needs to be. What
we need to be quite careful about is you know,
it's all well and good to have a position like
this there and ready to go, and I think that
that's fair enough. The government was very open about that
throughout the election process. But we do need to make
sure that we're cautious or I guess that we've got
some really clear guidelines and not just guidelines, but some

(51:53):
regulations in place as to how this is going to work,
because you know, we don't want a situation where people
are overstepping the mark or we get somebody in this
role who maybe doesn't do what is the expectation.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
I think everybody. The critical thing is the Chief minsitsis
said that we're not going to rush this. It is
going to follow the process.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
People are going to be able to have the opportunity
to have a look at it and feedback on it.
I don't have the schedule for this coming sittings because
it's still being finalized.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
If I had it, I would tell you, but I
don't have it.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
And the reality is is you've just said, Katie, our
economy is stagnating, and I've actually talked to a lot
of business who are desperate to get things moving. And
I've also had the opportunity to talk to some of
our Asian neighbors in my portfolio of Asian relations, who
are so enthusiastic about doing business with us, but have
been very concerned in the past about how long and
how complicated it's been, and.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
We can't afford to do that. We have to if
we want it.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
We talk about kids and youth and crime and opportunities.
If there's no business happening, then there's no opportunities for
them as well. And repeatedly I've heard stories about big
corporations who've come in to do tendering projects for business
that has been on the table, who then engaged with
our local indigenous businesses, so they tick boxes about being

(53:10):
doing business without indigenous community to only then come in
and not actually involve those businesses. So what we want
to do is make sure that there's absolute clarity about
what the expectations are. We want to make absolutely certain
that everyone knows how the process will work and will
make it so business know that if they commit, then
they're going to be able to deliver.

Speaker 6 (53:29):
There is there is clarity on Aboriginal businesses. Now we
have the Northern Territory Indigenous Business Network with one of
the procurement policies around ensuring that they are Aboriginal businesses.

Speaker 8 (53:41):
As Robin said that, we well, they certainly they the box,
but then they don't do the business.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
They don't the.

Speaker 6 (53:47):
Business they do, and we've seen that are being very
successful with NTIBN ensuring that it is an Aboriginal line
businesses because we know when Aboriginal people, when Aboriginal businesses
operate well they operate, they will employ Aboriginal people and
that's what we're seeing through nto IBN to make sure
it's not just a tick inflict. They have very clear
processes in place to ensure that they are Aboriginal businesses.

(54:09):
So to come in here and blame Aboriginal businesses.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
I wasn't blaming Aboriginal businesses. I was blaming the major
corporations who are actually not delivering on their commitment to
work with our Aboriginal businesses.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
Exactly, you don't have to take a very quick break.
The hour is running out quickly. You are listening to
Mix one O four nine's three sixty before I let
you all go, what do we make of the Anthony
Albanezy flight upgrade situation. Do you think it was interesting?
It's a bit of silence.

Speaker 3 (54:40):
Yeah, okay, I don't know. I mean I always whenever.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
I fly ACU, sometimes I steal points from my husband.
I always put in for an upgrade if I can,
just for sheer comfort. But I think it depends on
the circumstances. And I understand there's been some more information
come out on that, and I think, you know, as.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
A politician, you have to be careful.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
But if you're doing a lot of travel and you
actually form relationships, sometimes you can't actually control what the
airlines do they give.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
They'll maybe give you an upgrade, Yeah, which is hard.
What did you make of it directly?

Speaker 6 (55:09):
I look, it definitely opened up worms every politician and
it just shows that, you know, we do need to
be diligent and watching what we're doing when we are traveling.
So I think it's, you know, it can only be
a good thing. It's it's it opens it up, It
makes it transparent, a bit more transparent.

Speaker 7 (55:27):
I'll tighten those rules up.

Speaker 4 (55:28):
Yeah, I mean exactly, let's just be we should all
be accountable, transparent for everything out there so we can see. Yeah,
I just want to say one little thing about the
New Territory show.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
So I don't know if.

Speaker 4 (55:41):
I've watched one episode a little bit of it, but
and I know that Tourism and Tee is planning to
do some work based on that.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
That's exactly why.

Speaker 4 (55:48):
We need to be really concerned about this new Territory
Coordinator bill because that is putting that's a bit of
a stretch from Territory, this show Territory Coordinator.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
People look at that, look at the paper.

Speaker 4 (56:01):
It says the most important criteria is looking at economic development.
And what that show is celebrating is what our incredible
environment nature, what brings people here as a priority. So
an environment will always always be one of the main
or if not the main concern for the for our government,
because this is our territory, this is our life.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
We absolutely value it.

Speaker 4 (56:24):
The main thing to talk about is economic, economic prosperity
and development at the moment in that consultation paper. So
there's a question that sits there around that for me,
have you.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
Watched Territory yet?

Speaker 7 (56:36):
Have you finished it? Finished?

Speaker 6 (56:39):
I had a bit in this weekend over the weekend
and watch two episodes of Night so I won't get
by the ending.

Speaker 7 (56:44):
But I do think there will be another series to come,
just Territory.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
But it's doing really well.

Speaker 7 (56:51):
It's number one.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
How amazing is that?

Speaker 7 (56:55):
Very good?

Speaker 6 (56:56):
But yeah, and a big shout out to some of
the actors and be on the scenes. I know there
was a lot of people from Daily River community know
you in the movie and they're very proud. So I
constantly popping up on Facebook and people are very proud
to be on that movie.

Speaker 7 (57:09):
But yeah, it's.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
An investment for amazing return.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Yeah, absolutely well. Thank you all so very much for
your time this morning this morning. Justin Davis, independent for Johnson,
thank you so much for your time. Robin Carl member
for Port Darwin and also minister for various portfolios, Thank
you very much for your team this morning. And Doran Young,
member for Daily and member for the Labor Party and

(57:34):
opposition spokesperson for lots of different portfolios.

Speaker 6 (57:38):
It's a big list, but thanks for having me on
and thanks again. I think it's my second time with
both Robin and Justine.

Speaker 7 (57:45):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
We're all we're all going to park Run tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (57:48):
What's the.

Speaker 4 (57:52):
Mosquito to wait and say good on you.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Thank you all so much for your time