August 29, 2024 • 45 mins
Catch up on all the big issues with Katie Woolf on the Week that Was.
The Chief Minister sworn in, police out in uniforms, push back on lowering the age & police don't attend DV.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Very different line up this morning and joining me for
the COLP. Well, we've got Robin Carl, the incoming member
for Port Darwin.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Good morning, Good morning Katie.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Great to have you in the studio. Great to be
We've got labors Luke Gosling, the Member for Solomon and
also Special Envoy for Northern Australia and Veterans Affairs. I
believe I got that title right, did I?
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Luke? I'm defense thank you, good to have you in
the studio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Thanks so much for joining us this morning here. And
Justin Davis is on her way. She's just had a
little hiccup, so we'll see Justine very soon. But Executive
producer of nine News Darwin, Kathleen Gazola, good morning to you.
What a morning it's set to be. It's a bit
of fun for me, a whole different lineup. I'm very excited.
It's great to have you know a bit look yes, yeah,
(00:49):
fresh people in the studio. Freship for the listeners.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
There's two journals on one side of the table.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Before we get into it, I want to say a
shout out to Daniel and his friends who are just
outside of Uncle Sam's. They listen to the show every
morning and a big hello to them. They're very keen
for a shout out today while I was on my
way to get my coffee, So good morning to you boys.
Now the election, the people of the Northern Territory have
spoken and the COLP swept to victory. Following the election
(01:23):
on the weekend, the Labor Party right now holds four seats.
Two seats are still undecided Fanny Bay and Nightcliff. Nightcliff
looking as though it's going to fall to Labour's Natasha Files.
Fanny Bay at this point in time, looking as though
it's going to fall to Lori Zeo. But I know
that there is still postal votes that need to be
counted and still the possibility that those postal votes could
(01:47):
have an impact. But look, there is no doubt that
there's going to be a reshaping of policy and the
way that things are being done in the Northern Territory
or that's certainly the mandate that was given by Leofanochi.
Now people have had enough, they'd had enough of the
issues that we're facing in the Northern Territory with crime,
and that was seen really at the election on the weekend.
(02:11):
The people had spoken and I think my big message
was that you've got to listen to the people that
elect you. You might not always like what they've got
to say. In fact, sometimes you might really dislike what
they've got to say, but you have to listen to
the people that elect you, and certainly on the weekend
they made their voices heard.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
Robin.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
It was a massive victory for the CLP.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
Without question, and I think we were cautiously optimistic, but
when we started to see those numbers come in, it
was clear that the message had been sent loud and
clear to the previous labor government YEP, and the community
desperately wanted to change, and it was overwhelming to be
(02:56):
there and see those numbers flowing in, particularly when you
look at the seat Ofale where Eva Laula held her seat.
The work that Clinton Howe had done clearly paid off.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
People had connected with him, and.
Speaker 6 (03:09):
As you said, it's really critical that you listen to people,
and he absolutely did that, as did every single candidate
for the COLP, and we've seen that in the overwhelming
majority that we have achieved.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I will just say a very warm welcome to Justine Davis,
who's in the studio with us this morning. The incoming
Independent for Johnson. Good morning to you. Thanks for joining
us this morning.
Speaker 7 (03:28):
Hi Katie, sorry I'm late.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
That's okay, no problem at all.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Lovely to have you in here now, sure, yeah, and
congratulations yes, now, I mean, look, how are the Labor
Party really feeling at this point. It's a huge loss,
there is no other way to put it.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
It's going to be a massive rebuild now.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
And I appreciate you joining us this morning because I
think that it's really important that now we do have
members of the Labor Party. You know, you're going to
be part of that rebuild, even though you are obviously
on the federal stage. But really Labor has has to
show I think working class and middle class and every
class of territori and that there's still a party in
(04:07):
the territory.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Yeah, of course, we're still a party in the territory.
Speaker 8 (04:12):
Let's not forget that in two thousand and sixteen the
COLP was reduced to two seats and look where we
are today. So that says a few things. One is
that when the swing's on, when the community want to change,
then in the territory, in the nature of the small
(04:32):
seats that we have, that if that strong message is sent,
then there's some significant changes to the makeup. And I've
just been talking to people at the last couple of days.
Obviously our people are.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Hurting. You know, there's that whole phase of.
Speaker 8 (04:52):
Sort of grief because you've sort of worked hard and
you didn't get the result you were hoping for.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
But that's politics.
Speaker 8 (05:00):
This is a pretty brutal game because it's the constituents
that have the say. And I mean, how lucky are
we to live in Australia, a place where you know,
we've got a strong democracy where the citizens of the
day have a say on who sort of governs governs
a place.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
So I think it's.
Speaker 8 (05:20):
Good for democracy that people have had had a choice, had.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Made that choice.
Speaker 8 (05:27):
And look, from my perspective, of course there's rebuilding to
do within the party, but it's really working with the
anti government in partnership to deliver for territorians because that's
what we'll all be judged on come the next federal
election and come the next territory election.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Look, did they see it coming? I mean, do you
think that they truly understood that they are on the
path to a walloping I.
Speaker 8 (05:53):
Think they saw the swing coming. I just don't think
they saw it in the magnitude of it, of what
it was. So you know, there's some seats still that
are close, and you know, we're sort of regardless of
what the result is with those seats, We've got a
(06:14):
strong mandate for the CLP as the and T government
now to enact their policies. I'm not going to agree
with all of them, but I think it's incumbent on
all of us to develop this place, provide opportunities to territory,
and so that's what we're going to remain focused on.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
And Justine, for you now, as an independent stepping in,
I think your role becomes a really important and crucial
one in terms of well, you know, holding the government
to account. But what's the reaction been for you over
the last couple of days.
Speaker 7 (06:47):
For me personally, I think it's pretty overwhelming. But I
feel very motivated and very grateful to have the opportunity
to be representing my community and also be able to offer,
as you said, another set of eyes, ears and voice
in parliament.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
So yeah, yeah, and Cat, I mean you and I
have covered a lot of elections.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Really over the years.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I was having a think about it the other day
it must be my third or fourth thrill. Then territory election.
Then you look at the federal elections, and you know,
they're always interesting, they're always different. And I think I'd
said on Friday, and I'd sort of said to you
and Matt Cunningham, look, I think the Bush seats will
be safe for Labor. I felt like Sanderson and Nightcliff
(07:31):
would be safe Labor seats, but I felt as though
everything else was up for grabs. And as those results
started to come through on Saturday night and you saw
somewhere like Sanderson that many people had regarded as a
very safe Labor seat starting to turn, you know, you
could see that the swing was well and truly on.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, absolutely, and it was on early.
Speaker 9 (07:53):
We were waiting for a while for the NTec to
put through those first ballot box up on the website.
But yeah, certainly, once you saw what was happening, and
I mean, I think it was a bit of an
indication of where perhaps Labor thought that they were going
to do.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Okay.
Speaker 9 (08:08):
The fact that Kate Warden and Brent Potter were both
at the election party for Labor very early on, especially
to be sort of talent to speak to the media
suggested to me that perhaps they thought they were going
to be okay, and then obviously things changed very quickly.
I think I saw it was it might have been
Bill Shorten who said Territorians vote like the tides, that
(08:30):
we have very big tides and.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Very slow lows, and.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
They come in and they go out.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
So I thought that was a very good analogy.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
You know that we're unforgiving, I guess in a lot
of ways, but you know, I really feel, you know,
for me in this role every single day, I'm very
privileged to speak to normal, every day people every single day,
and that doesn't end when I step out of this studio.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
In fact, it probably happens more so when you're.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
At kids, athletics, at soccer, at different sports and at
different activities. And people were really very clear to me
that they were unhappy with the direction in which the
Northern Territory was heading.
Speaker 9 (09:10):
A long time ago, I had said in her concession speech.
People made up their minds, I think a long time ago,
like of course we you and I and Matt and
others had said we thought Eva had sort of shifted
the dial a bit, and probably people were like, yeah,
she's done okay, but you know, it's only eight months
to the election.
Speaker 6 (09:29):
And I think one of the things that was severely
underestimated by the Labor government was the angst that was
felt by the public sector. Every person that I ever
spoke to who worked in the public service was desperate
for change. They have felt that no one was listening
to them. They weren't able to get their jobs done.
The frontline workers were really struggling to stay on top
(09:51):
of things. And I think that when you stop listening
to the people who are there in your community, who
were there doing their every day stuff, you're really asking
for what happened on Saturday night to happen. And that's
just to be told overwhelmingly.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Enough is enough.
Speaker 6 (10:07):
We need a change, We need some change in direction.
We need someone to start listening to us. And certainly
on the door, that was the message that I was getting.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
Mixed one or four point nine three point sixty the
week that was the most listened to our in Territory radio.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Well, if you have just joined us this morning in
the studio, we've got the incoming member for Port Darwin,
Robin Carl. We've got the member for Solomon, Luke Gosling.
We've got the incoming member for Johnson, the Independent, Justine Davis,
and we've got Kathleen Gazola from nine News Darwin. Now,
it's been a big week for the incoming government. Of
(10:42):
course Leophano gros morning as the new chief Minister, the
first female COLP chief minister, that's right, Yeah, and also
the Deputy Jared Mayley's morning. Now.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
They've both taken on a.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Swag of portfolios in the interim twenty each.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I think it was just in the interim so for.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
This week, but I guess you know they're gonna have
to hit the ground running, there is no doubt about that.
I do think that people have an expectation that while
they won't see a change to some of what's going
on in the Northern Territory immediately, there is certainly an
expectation that there is going to be a change. Robin,
how do you think you sort of juggle that as
(11:24):
an incoming new government in terms of trying to meet
people's expectations without maybe making, you know, some mistakes along
the way.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
Well, I think certainly when I've been talking to people
as we led up to the election, there are things
that we've said that we could do reasonably quickly. So,
for example, Declan's Law, which is so critical if we
want to actually stop that revolving door that police talk
about with people who are released on bail, released on bail,
released on bail and then end up having a tragedy
as we did with young declar. So those sorts of
(11:56):
things are pretty much ready to go for the first
sitting of Parliament, and everybody that I've talked to understands
that that much larger, bigger picture generational stuff is going
to take longer and is going to take consultation with
lots of different groups, working with the police, working with
community services, working with the community, and that.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
We have to get it right. So we can't rush it.
Speaker 6 (12:21):
We have to make sure we get it right because
to get it right, we're really going to have one
shot at this in some of those instances, so we
have to make sure that we actually include everybody in
that discussion.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Justine, it's you know, it is going to be a
bit of a juggle, there is no doubt about that.
Are there things that you sort of have concerns or
issues that have been concerned ray sorry, by those in
your electorate that you're wanting to sort of make sure
that the COLP doesn't get wrong.
Speaker 7 (12:48):
Yeah, and look, I think I'm really happy to hear
the way Robin you're talking about how the COLP is
going to approach things.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
I think we all know. I think the community knows.
Speaker 7 (12:57):
And the same as Robin described when I was talking
to people when I was door knocking, people understand there's
a complex, long term problems. They want they want things
to be different, they want them to get fixed up.
They absolutely want change, as Robin said. And I think
just in terms of what we were saying before, what
Robin was saying before this selection was a really clear
(13:20):
call out for change. I think we shouldn't miss the
story that there was a huge upswing in support for
independence in my seat and for Greens, and that people
wanted something different. Many people at the polls were saying
to me in seats where there was only two options,
where's the third option?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
We want a third option.
Speaker 7 (13:41):
I think, yeah, this also, I think this is a
really clear call for change. But it's I think the
mandate is a mandate to do what the community wants,
exactly as Robin said, and I think that there's so
change is challenging.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
It scares people.
Speaker 6 (13:58):
Yeah, they often want to, they often call for it,
but the process to get there can be quite complex.
So I think one of the things that I struggled
with during the whole of the campaign was not I
could I just simply couldn't understand why people were calling
out for change and people were saying things are not okay,
and the previous labor government was saying, look, there's nothing
(14:19):
to see here, everything's fine. So I think the first
thing we have to acknowledge is everything's not fine, and
that message has been sent loud and clear, and you'll see.
The very first thing that Leah did in her role
was meet with the Police Commissioner to reinforce the fact
that we have to get this right and we have
to work together with police.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
We have to support them, we have to retain them.
Speaker 6 (14:40):
There's a massive number of police out there who are
on long term leaf for a variety of reasons. We
have to get them back on their feet, back at
work to do the job that they love, working with
our community, becoming a really visible part of our community
so that people immediately feel that sense of safety, and
then we can work with the community to progress that through.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Well, let's make no bones about it. I mean, the
area that people want to see change is crime. There
is no doubt that they want to see a reduction
in the level of crime that we are seeing on
the streets of the Northern Territory.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
I mean, Luke, is there.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
A part to play here for the federal government in
terms of supporting I know a lot of people really
felt that Labor were not only sort of dragging their
heels in a lot of ways, but they almost felt
like it was contempt towards the community that you know
that they you know that they were almost saying to
the community, Look, you know, these issues are complex, but
(15:35):
you guys aren't smart enough to understand why we can't
fix them. And I think that's what frustrated people are, Losh.
Speaker 8 (15:41):
And that's maybe what you were hearing too with your
talk back from people there. So I don't think we
should pretend though, that the former Labor government, that evil
Oil and Ben Potter was saying nothing to see here.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I mean telling us it was too complex, you know,
I like that it was comple lex issues.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Let's not pronounced that.
Speaker 8 (16:04):
Let's not forget that curfews were put into place where
it was seen that they were needed big, big recruiting
drives or more police. I mean, that's what the community
was calling for. They didn't see enough police presence, they
didn't see that active patrolling enough. So I think, yeah,
I just I think we need to acknowledge that those
(16:27):
things were timely. They ended up even being a little
bit more complex than the government at the time probably realized.
But now it's going to be really important I think
for or the Police Association for example, to work with
the government. I'm sure they will to make sure that
(16:50):
our police are supported. Calls for more support to police
so they can get back on the job aren't a youth.
So I take the point that you were making, Katie
about what the community was feeling from the government. But
I also don't think we should throw out everything they did,
(17:12):
because there were some good things there and we should
keep the good and try and enhance.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
We should never throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Speaker 9 (17:20):
Sure, but I think it was probably like too little,
too late, effectively. You know, when Natasha was sworn in
as Chief Minister, she highlighted crime as the number one priority,
But then it sort of felt like a lot of
things continued on the same you know, the five hundred
and seventy million dollars over five years that EVA committed
to was announced in May budget and then obviously Brent
(17:43):
Potter came in as Police Minister and people had been
crying out for more police for a long time.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
During that last.
Speaker 9 (17:51):
Week there was a big focus from EVA and Brent
about police and tackling crime and that kind of stuff,
and I put to them, well, you know, don't you
acknowledge that this is probably a bit late really, And
you know, it was harping back to the review, which
we both know.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Took a very long time to get feed to.
Speaker 9 (18:11):
And then that magical figure of one hundred and twenty
extra police that was promised in twenty twelve by Terry Mills,
which came out of a review done in twenty eleven
under the Hando government. It was just like, let's get
rid of that figure, Like who cares if you had
to recruit that before then you could do a review
before you did this, and then you're doing two hundred
extra police, like no one gives a crap about that.
(18:34):
They just want to see more police patrolling, which I think,
you know, it's probably a good move from LEA to
kind of say to the commissioner, let's get some of
those playing clothes officers, which I'm sure, I'm sure is
not going to be very popular across certain spectrums of
the units. But you know that's what Matt Patterson, the
ar Springs mayor, has said, that visibility of blue uniforms
(18:57):
walking the pathways.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Well like even when the cruise ships used to arrive
in town many years ago and you'd sort of have
the police out on the segways and the police on there.
Speaker 6 (19:07):
Aicon time I saw a uniform police officer in the
model other than just passing through or responding to an incident,
and just that comfortable interaction with the community, particularly the kids,
because when you build relationships with those kids, it changes
the dynamic significantly about how they behave.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
And look, there is no doubt that we need more police,
and I do just want to talk about an incident
that's been reported on over the last couple of days
as well, where there was a situation where the Australian
newspaper reporting that the Northern Territory Police were unable to
conduct a welfare checked for a check for a malacc
woman nine hours before she was allegedly murdered by her partner.
(19:52):
The forty three year old woman was found dead in
her home on August twenty one, following a report to
police at twelve ten am. Now her partner was later
charged with murder as well as breaching a domestic violence order.
So The Australian reported yesterday that Territory Families had requested
a welfare check for that woman about three pm, just
(20:16):
nine hours before her death, but it has been reported
police were not able to attend due to higher priority incidents.
Now we've spoken to the police on so many occasions
about the sheer volume of callouts they are receiving when
it comes to domestic violence, the sheer volume of call
(20:38):
outs that they're receiving when it comes to all sorts
of incidents. But I mean, this is a tragic situation.
It made me sort of start to question and have
a look at the way that things are being done
differently in other states. And I know that in Queensland
they've got a domestic violence task Force that goes out
(20:58):
to some different incidents where it's not just then the
reliance on the police to go and do checks like that,
but other agencies like an interagency sort of response, I
don't know whether that's the answer, but we cannot Yeah, like,
we can't have something like this happening.
Speaker 7 (21:16):
Absolutely, Katie, and thank you for raising that. And I
think that's the story we don't talk about when we
talk about crime. We know that maybe at least sixty
five percent of police time is spent on family and
domestic violence. At least sixty five percent of the people
in prison are there in relation to family and domestic violence.
All of the young people who are in contact with
(21:37):
a criminal justice system have been exposed to family and
domestic violence.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
That's our real crisis.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
We are seeing women being murdered.
Speaker 7 (21:47):
As in the story you just said, you're just told
and it's on all of us to make sure that
doesn't happen.
Speaker 6 (21:52):
That's why we have to absolutely go back to look
at the root causeste.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Why is this happening?
Speaker 6 (21:57):
Why do we have a situation where we have such
a significantly out of proportion number when you compare.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
To what's happening in the rest of the country. And
I think in these.
Speaker 6 (22:09):
We're allowed to do that the rules, but you know
it's that why is it so much worse here? And
we're looking at alcohol abuse as being one of the
primary course. It's not just of domestic violence, but we
see the presentations in the hospital system which are alcohol related,
the children who are being neglected which is alcohol related. Clearly,
that's where we have to start focusing to actually fix
(22:32):
the broader generational issue.
Speaker 7 (22:34):
I mean, I think that one of the things that's
really important whatever we're doing. I mean, I know you
you know your backgrounds in working round complex systems as well,
is get the best information we have.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
We have.
Speaker 7 (22:45):
We have all this research and data to say what
is that we need to do randomestic and family violence.
There is a plan about what needs to happen. I
heard that the Salpece committed.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
We're absolutely committed to that.
Speaker 6 (22:56):
One of the other things I think is really important
when we do have these situations of domestic violence where
the perpetrator or the alleged perpetrator is out on bail,
that we're going to have them electronically monitored. That doesn't
currently happen, and we also have to look at mandatory
offenses for those repeat offenders. We have to protect the victims.
And I think that one of the very strong messages
(23:18):
that I was getting in the community and you probably experience.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
This as well.
Speaker 6 (23:21):
Just seen is that victims felt that they were being
left behind.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
Absolutely preventions big oa.
Speaker 8 (23:28):
So the federal government gives the anti government a lot
of financial support for combating domestic family and sexual violence,
and obviously that will continue. It's a little bit frustrating
when you're here that needs based funding without saying exactly
(23:49):
what is me I heard it a lot, but can
I just put it on the record because I used
to have this conversation with the former anti labor government.
A lot is that it's not per capita funding to
the Northern Territory. In fact, it's thirteen times per capita.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
So we're already receiving more.
Speaker 8 (24:11):
Obviously we need it, yeah, but we just need to,
I think, not forget the important role of prevention. So
on the other end, it's too late when someone's out
on bail, a might you know, if the then t
government legislated, they might have an ankle bracelet on.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
But by then there's just been so much damage done.
Speaker 8 (24:32):
And when you look at the young people on the street,
not only have they been exposed to domestic family and
sexual violence, but they're probably victims of it themselves sometimes.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
And that's why we about to do, so they're traumatized.
We're talking about young traumatized.
Speaker 6 (24:45):
We have to actually get the workers in place, and
that's one of the things we're definitely hearing is a
lot of those agencies who are being tasked with dealing
with that just cannot get the workers that they need here,
and so that flows on to the make people know
that this is a place where it's so to live,
where it's a good place to come, and then you
just start to get this turn of the tide. You
(25:06):
get more people in place, you get the services being
able to deliver the services that they're there to deliver,
and suddenly you have a whole sense of change where
you can actually then build on the prevention cycles and
reduce the actual.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
People with impact of that. Long term stuff absolutely needs
to happen. But I mean, when we're talking about a
situation like the one that was reported in the Australian,
like when we're at that real pointy end and we're
not able to get somebody to go out and do
a welfare check, surely we've got to look at doing
things a little bit differently. And if the police resources
(25:42):
are so incredibly tight at the moment, that there's other
priority jobs that are higher than that. Are there other
ways that we can make sure that somebody is able
to be checked on ie, Is there you know, another
department or other support services around because we can all
have a situation like this.
Speaker 9 (26:02):
Again, well, I think that's a good point because we've
heard from the coronial inquest that the coroner has heard
had had conducted about the four women who were killed
due to domestic violence? Is that and we've heard this
so often across government that departments work in silos. You know,
the computer systems and the things don't all mesh together
(26:23):
that you would have thought, surely it seems common sense.
But you know, depending on processes and systems and all
the rest of it, that police get a report about
a woman that surely when it comes in, that comes
up with the domestic violence order for twenty years, that's
how much she had copped over that time that they
put that order in. And still it took that long
(26:43):
to be able to go and see that, which is
such a massive concern. I think the Commissioner has also
led the charge of a corresponder model in terms of
having territory families workers going along with police to domestic
violence call outs.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I think that question we have.
Speaker 6 (26:59):
To do things differently. There has to be a better
utilization of resources. And one of the things that we're
certainly seeing where you talk about territory families who are
overwhelmed and primarily only have time to deal.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
With the worst of the worst cases. We have to
look at why that is.
Speaker 6 (27:15):
We have to go, Okay, these are the people who
are seeing it firsthand. Ideally and sensibly they would be
the people who could make that first contact. So we
have to really look at how those resources are being used.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
And there has to be a better way to do it.
Speaker 7 (27:30):
And as you said, Robin, we need to look at
and as Lek said, we need to look at the
long term causes. And I just wanted to say earlier
on when you were talking about alcohol, we absolutely have
to address the harm done by alcohol. But alcohol does
not cause violence. Alcohol exacerbates and it makes it worse.
There are many people who use alcohol who are not violent,
(27:50):
and I think we need to be really clear that
we don't mix those two things up.
Speaker 6 (27:54):
I think when you have a child who has for
two previous generations seeing that's a normal relationship, that's where
your issues really start happening. So when you have the
child of the parent who's the child of the grandparent
and that's normal to them, that's how you deal with
your life situation. That's the thing that we have to
look at changing.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Can I just make a quick point about workforce.
Speaker 8 (28:17):
We've got some issues, like there's funding there for more
frontline workers in domestic family and sexual violence.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
It's really tough work.
Speaker 8 (28:26):
What we've done federally, not saying this is a massive thing,
but we're trying to support people so that when they're
doing their training as a social worker, for example, they're
now going to get paid placements. But whereas before it was,
you know, it's not paid as much as other roles,
and it's really stressful. So we need to support those
(28:47):
workers more and really focus on recruiting. I think like
this is really important life saving work, and really support
the people who put their hands up to do that work.
Speaker 7 (28:58):
And one of the things I'd say round that frontline
service work, it's wonderful about the commitment to implementing that
one hundred and eighty million dollars. There needs to be
a long term, ongoing commitment because we all know any
of us who've done any of this kind of work
that having short term funding commitments for running services just
does not work.
Speaker 6 (29:16):
One of my frustrations having worked in health has always
been you do the pilot project that's exceptionally successful and
it gets defunded and the project that doesn't work. The
money keeps getting thrown at it because we're going to
make it work. So I think we have to switch
that narrative and go this works, we need to keep
it going.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Yep, this isn't working. We need to rethink it.
Speaker 6 (29:36):
And I think that's just very fundamental common sense and
I know often that's lacking in a lot of bureaucratic
processes from my own personal experience, but it's you know,
it's something we actually have to buite.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
The bullet and do.
Speaker 5 (29:48):
The week that was the most listened to our in territory.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Radio, well it is to stay eight minutes away from
ten o'clock, getting a few messages people saying how lovely
to listen to the show this morning and very respectful discussion.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Look, it's still very early days of.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
The new the new makeup of the parliament, so we'll
see how it goes. But look, I do want to
discuss the fact that we know. The Law Society of
the Northern Territory say that they are deeply concerned it
moves by the newly elected Northern Territory government to wind
back the age of criminal responsibility to ten. So the
society's president has come out and said this comes at
(30:25):
a time when other Australian jurisdictions are considering policy reforms
which will raise the age and as such the society
strongly urges the government to reconsider this step. I mean,
the thing is, though the Seal, the incoming CLP government
certainly had a mandate of the different changes that they
were going to make when it comes to dealing with
(30:46):
the issues of crime, and people voted for you guys
on a large majority, so.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
You would have to assume that.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
People were supportive of those different changes that are looking
to be introduced.
Speaker 6 (31:00):
Yeah, absolutely, Katie, And I think the thing we have
to take a minute to step back from is this
jurisdiction is not the East Coast of Australia and it's
not the West Coast of Australia. And I think the
other thing we have to focus on is we're not
actually talking about luring it so we can throw kids
in jail. We're actually talking about luring it in response
to advice and feedback that we've had from police from
(31:23):
other groups saying we cannot access these kids, we cannot
do anything to help them if the only thing that
we're able to do is take them back to that
mythical responsible adult, which I still haven't.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Been able to find out what that actually means.
Speaker 6 (31:37):
And so it really is about making sure that we
can take those kids somewhere where they're safe, where we
can actually get them fed, clothed, get them back into school,
get them to a place where they are learning what
it's like to be in a home where there are
cuddles and consequences, because that's how we raise our kids.
We go you do this, this is the consequence, and
(31:58):
you do this. Oh my god, you've done so well.
We're going to give you a cuddle. So these are
kids who are, as we were just saying, haven't seen that.
They haven't been brought up that way. They don't have
the privilege that I had, or that you had in
being raised in a family that said here's the line
in the sand. Do not go past that, because if
you do, you're not going to have your TV you're
not going to have this, You're not going to have
(32:19):
something else.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
So basically been abandoned.
Speaker 6 (32:21):
And I do not want to be one of the
politicians in ten years time where people say you disabandon
these children. I don't want to have that label thrown
at me. I actually want to see with our team
members that we actually do something positive.
Speaker 9 (32:33):
And that consequences word is the big thing that I
know a lot of people that we've interviewed and who
have called up to your show. Yeah, I wanted to
see No everyone agrees that no one wants to see
ten year olds locked up in don Dale and that's
the last resort. But you know, the Labor government had
promised to increase the age when those programs were in
place to be able to deal with that younger Cohort
(32:57):
and I don't know about UK. I'm pretty sure much
the same of what we got. Whenever we ask territory
families all the minister what those programs were, give us
an example how it works, we couldn't get that information.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Which makes it really hard then to sort of to
look at what's potentially successful or what is potentially going
well or what's not going well. When you're really not
getting any of that information, and then you're sort of
getting behind the scenes detail from maybe people that are
you know, that are working in those remand centers and
(33:33):
and things like that, that are saying to look, you know,
there's there's no real change for these kids because there
aren't programs that they're able to get stuck into.
Speaker 6 (33:43):
Ores can't even make those kids go to school. It's
that it's a position that has no authority, no power.
So in the very first instance, if you can get
those kids who are roaming around during school hours back
into the school system and act show them what it
means to have someone take an interest in I'm sure
you've all had the school teacher that changed your life.
(34:06):
The one who was such an influence on your mine
was missus Brandon. She was my English teacher back in
year nine, and she made going to school great and
I felt like she cared about me and it made
me work a little bit harder. These kids don't have
that happening for them right now, and we really need
to change that.
Speaker 7 (34:23):
Yeah, and I think, I mean, I think absolutely everyone
and everyone I spoke to obviously everyone, you know, there's
this clear mandate that we need to be doing something
about this. I don't think that translates to this idea
of lowering the age of criminal responsibility. I think that's
that's mixing up two things.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
I really hear.
Speaker 7 (34:40):
What you say, Robin, and what I've heard other people
in the colp stay about this is this is the
only way we can actually meet the needs.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Well, this is the way we started this, that's the
way we start.
Speaker 7 (34:53):
Yeah, Look, I think before my view is before we
do anything like that, we need to actually look at
what's going to work. There is no evidence that I
have seen anywhere that lowering the age of criminal responsibility
is going to make any of us more safe. In fact,
it's going to do harm as opposed to helping the
young people. And I think before we do that, as
a law society is calling for, we need to get
(35:16):
proper evidence. We need to have an inquiry. We need
to look at it was only a year ago that
they changed, their age was changed. What's happened in that year?
Where's the evaluations of what?
Speaker 6 (35:24):
Well, nothing's happened because the basic simple things that they
said they were going to do to a deal with
those kids never happen.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
So you make the change.
Speaker 6 (35:32):
When you've got the alternative in place, and you don't
make the change before you've got the alternative in place.
And you know, I struggle to think it's okay to
live in a community where our alcohol gets locked up,
where you can't even buy an aerosol deodorant. I can't
even buy vanilla essence off the shelf in the supermarket.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
That is not normal. That is not normal.
Speaker 6 (35:56):
And so we actually have to find a way to
get those kids to his place where they they're not
doing that, they're not looking for that.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
There's got to be rules and regulations in place that
people have to know right from wrong. Luke seabusting to
say something. I'm not getting a word in there with us, sorry, mate.
Speaker 8 (36:13):
I think the lowering the age thing the ten was
just to differentiate themselves during their campaign. I don't think
it's based on expert advice.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
It may not be, but the community voter for the Seals.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Are expert than who is.
Speaker 8 (36:33):
So there's a lot of experts that would say that
you're basically setting up very young children for a life
within a system. So that's there, that's their life mapped out.
They have just some time in the place formerly known
as don Dale and graduate on to Holtz and that
(36:55):
is that's not a recipe for success. Some other jurisdictions
have gone to fourteen, which territorians obviously do not want
and intuitively know is not the Casely, what Justine s
makes a lot of sense, Like, you know, are the
experts saying, no, we definitely need to put ten year
old kids into detention.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
I challenge that we're not actually talking about doing that.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
But Wally struggle with, like with this whole discussion, is that,
you know, nobody can actually give me an example of
a program that a ten year old has done that's worked.
Speaker 7 (37:30):
And in the Northern Territory, well.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
A luck when we on the show under yeah, like
under different in the Northern Territory, nobody can actually show
me or has has been able to demonstrate what has worked.
And the other thing that that always sort of you know,
that always sparks my attention is is we've built a
whole new detention center that is supposed to be appropriate
(37:55):
and built to reform young people. So and still and
still with those programs that are though supposed to be
helping these young kids. So you know, whether they're sixteen,
whether they're thirteen or whether they're ten, if that's the
intention of that facility, does it matter what age they are,
(38:16):
If we're actually looking after them properly and you're delivering
programs in.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
There, is it actually a gap?
Speaker 4 (38:21):
Right? We definitely needed it.
Speaker 8 (38:22):
I've mean, I went out to don Dale several times
at the old barhamasite and it's just shocking, you know,
an old Yeah, it's just wasn't right. So it's good
that we've got this new facility. Everyone's really keen to
see it open, but also keener to hear about what
sort of programs they're going to be running here, what
if they are good ones.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Side, there's not a situation where it you know, where
if a child and if it's going to help them
get on track, wouldn't it be a good thing.
Speaker 8 (38:49):
One of the things federally my number one priority was
the funding of a youth engagement hub for the Northern
suburbs and I think that's that prevention piece again, that's
picking up the kid that have got concerns, like identifying them,
getting them some mentoring support, but working with the families
as well. You can't do anything with a child if
you're not also working with the family, because eventually that
(39:13):
is the environment that the child will go back into.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
So it's got to be more holistic.
Speaker 8 (39:17):
Trust me, it's been as frustrating for me as for
anyone else that there hasn't been these other options. Like
people used to always say to me, Look, we need
to go back to the wild Man River idea. We
need to have opportunities for these kids to get out
into an environment where they can be really worked with
and cared for, and I think there's been a real
(39:40):
lack of those options.
Speaker 6 (39:41):
And to do that you have to have a legislative
structure that says you can actually intervene, and clearly at
the moment we don't because we're seeing the consequences of
these kids being abandoned because that's what we've done. So
I think one of the things that's really important that
we've taken on very critically is we're doing significant consultation
with indigenous mentors.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
We're actually listening.
Speaker 6 (40:02):
To them, and to be honest with you, they are
really fierce and have a far stronger view about what
we should be doing with these kids than we've actually
talked about. So I think we need to understand and
realize that there is a breadth of views out there,
but we have to have a starting point and for
the COLP government and for the community who have overwhelmingly
(40:24):
supported what we said, we're going to do that is
to actually create a point in time where we can
start working with kids younger, because the younger you can
get to them, the betterer chances are of changing things.
Speaker 7 (40:35):
Absolutely, but I think we don't do that by criminalizing children.
And a ten year old is not a mini adult.
They're a ten year old child. And we all know
that these children are children who are survivors of great
trauma most of the time.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
And I totally agree with I.
Speaker 7 (40:52):
Think when we talk about consequences, that's the language people use.
Actually what we need to be talking about is accountability.
And absolutely people need to be accountable for accountability, for
parents certainly, accountability and also for young people. And people
become accountable when they understand the impact of what they've
done and there's a pathway forward to change it.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
And there's a consequence for their actions, absolutely that they
are part of designing.
Speaker 7 (41:15):
So a lot of the work that I've been involved
in around reservative justice actually does that. There are things
that we know can work. As you're talking about there
are people on community, there are Aboriginal leaders who are
doing this work now and if if we're properly supported,
it could keep happening and could make a huge difference
right away.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
That's just about it for us this morning, our first
week that was with the new members of parliament yet
to be sort of what do they do?
Speaker 3 (41:40):
Do they induct you?
Speaker 2 (41:41):
What we get to go to MLA school? How long
does that take a couple of days?
Speaker 6 (41:50):
We're all looking that's I'm not quite sure what to expect,
but it'll be fun.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (41:55):
One of the things, one of the things on the
agenda is what is the point of parliament? So I'm
looking forward to keep your spirits up because.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
To do some good.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Well, look, it has been wonderful to have you all in.
Before we wrap up, I mean, we are still expecting
the ministry to be announced. I think on Tuesday, is
that right, Kathleen or Tuesday?
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Yeah, it was early next week. But were you tipping
for different jobs there.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Might be a ministry maybe in this room.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
America, a lot of people would assume.
Speaker 6 (42:29):
So you know what people to make.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
True.
Speaker 9 (42:35):
But yes, given the size of the COLP team, I
reckon you know, they would have been a little bit
worried of just how big, because that never bodes well
for a parliamentary team when it's hard does potentially seventeen seats.
We saw Michael Gunner had to revert to assistant ministries
and yeah, I think that really.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Worked out too well, for it's hard trying to keep
everybody happy and in control and in line.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
Isn't it a.
Speaker 4 (43:02):
Big restless backbench? Yeah, we'll it'll be really interesting.
Speaker 8 (43:06):
I'm really interested in seeing who comes to Broom with
us next week for the North Australian Minister's meeting. So
we've got several federal ministers coming to speak with ministers
from wa, NT and Queensland just about how we can
work better together and make the most of this massive
defense investment in Northern Australia for example, but also all
(43:27):
the other investments that are going on through the NAVE.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
So hoping to have a Minister for Northern Australia by
them what day as in here locally?
Speaker 4 (43:34):
Yeah, so the meeting is Wednesday in Broom.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
A wonderful no by him.
Speaker 8 (43:41):
Might be the Chief might be Jared, who knows, but yeah,
be interesting to see.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Robin just might go.
Speaker 8 (43:50):
Can I quickly point out just a little bit of
federal news is that we inherited from Scott Morrison and
the Coalition six point one percent in this month. We're
down to three point five, so it's really we're driving
it down as well as providing text cuts and energy
bill relief and so forth, so that bodes well. Keeps
(44:12):
tracking this way for interest rate cuts from the Reserve.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Bank, sounds like an election pitch.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
We're heading in the right direction.
Speaker 6 (44:20):
But you know, we had a message loud and clear
about cost of living here in the Northern Territory, so
whilst that might have been empty based, federal still impacted.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
Yeah. Well look we are going to have to wrap up.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
It's lovely to have you all in the studio this morning.
Robin Carl the incoming member for the COLP for Port Darwin,
lovely to.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Have you in here. Great to be here.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Katie Luke Gosling, the Member for Solomon, the Federal Member
for Solomon also Special Envoy for Northern Australia Veterans Affairs
and Defense.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
Thanks Katie.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
Justine Davis, the incoming Independent Member for Johnson.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
Lovely to have you in the studio.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Thank you, Thanks Katie, and of course Kathleen Gazola on
her day off, the executive producer of nine years, Darwin,
thank you for your time,
Very different line up this morning and joining me for
the COLP. Well, we've got Robin Carl, the incoming member
for Port Darwin.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Good morning, Good morning Katie.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Great to have you in the studio. Great to be
We've got labors Luke Gosling, the Member for Solomon and
also Special Envoy for Northern Australia and Veterans Affairs. I
believe I got that title right, did I?
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Luke? I'm defense thank you, good to have you in
the studio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Thanks so much for joining us this morning here. And
Justin Davis is on her way. She's just had a
little hiccup, so we'll see Justine very soon. But Executive
producer of nine News Darwin, Kathleen Gazola, good morning to you.
What a morning it's set to be. It's a bit
of fun for me, a whole different lineup. I'm very excited.
It's great to have you know a bit look yes, yeah,
(00:49):
fresh people in the studio. Freship for the listeners.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
There's two journals on one side of the table.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Before we get into it, I want to say a
shout out to Daniel and his friends who are just
outside of Uncle Sam's. They listen to the show every
morning and a big hello to them. They're very keen
for a shout out today while I was on my
way to get my coffee, So good morning to you boys.
Now the election, the people of the Northern Territory have
spoken and the COLP swept to victory. Following the election
(01:23):
on the weekend, the Labor Party right now holds four seats.
Two seats are still undecided Fanny Bay and Nightcliff. Nightcliff
looking as though it's going to fall to Labour's Natasha Files.
Fanny Bay at this point in time, looking as though
it's going to fall to Lori Zeo. But I know
that there is still postal votes that need to be
counted and still the possibility that those postal votes could
(01:47):
have an impact. But look, there is no doubt that
there's going to be a reshaping of policy and the
way that things are being done in the Northern Territory
or that's certainly the mandate that was given by Leofanochi.
Now people have had enough, they'd had enough of the
issues that we're facing in the Northern Territory with crime,
and that was seen really at the election on the weekend.
(02:11):
The people had spoken and I think my big message
was that you've got to listen to the people that
elect you. You might not always like what they've got
to say. In fact, sometimes you might really dislike what
they've got to say, but you have to listen to
the people that elect you, and certainly on the weekend
they made their voices heard.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
Robin.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
It was a massive victory for the CLP.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
Without question, and I think we were cautiously optimistic, but
when we started to see those numbers come in, it
was clear that the message had been sent loud and
clear to the previous labor government YEP, and the community
desperately wanted to change, and it was overwhelming to be
(02:56):
there and see those numbers flowing in, particularly when you
look at the seat Ofale where Eva Laula held her seat.
The work that Clinton Howe had done clearly paid off.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
People had connected with him, and.
Speaker 6 (03:09):
As you said, it's really critical that you listen to people,
and he absolutely did that, as did every single candidate
for the COLP, and we've seen that in the overwhelming
majority that we have achieved.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I will just say a very warm welcome to Justine Davis,
who's in the studio with us this morning. The incoming
Independent for Johnson. Good morning to you. Thanks for joining
us this morning.
Speaker 7 (03:28):
Hi Katie, sorry I'm late.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
That's okay, no problem at all.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Lovely to have you in here now, sure, yeah, and
congratulations yes, now, I mean, look, how are the Labor
Party really feeling at this point. It's a huge loss,
there is no other way to put it.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
It's going to be a massive rebuild now.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
And I appreciate you joining us this morning because I
think that it's really important that now we do have
members of the Labor Party. You know, you're going to
be part of that rebuild, even though you are obviously
on the federal stage. But really Labor has has to
show I think working class and middle class and every
class of territori and that there's still a party in
(04:07):
the territory.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Yeah, of course, we're still a party in the territory.
Speaker 8 (04:12):
Let's not forget that in two thousand and sixteen the
COLP was reduced to two seats and look where we
are today. So that says a few things. One is
that when the swing's on, when the community want to change,
then in the territory, in the nature of the small
(04:32):
seats that we have, that if that strong message is sent,
then there's some significant changes to the makeup. And I've
just been talking to people at the last couple of days.
Obviously our people are.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Hurting. You know, there's that whole phase of.
Speaker 8 (04:52):
Sort of grief because you've sort of worked hard and
you didn't get the result you were hoping for.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
But that's politics.
Speaker 8 (05:00):
This is a pretty brutal game because it's the constituents
that have the say. And I mean, how lucky are
we to live in Australia, a place where you know,
we've got a strong democracy where the citizens of the
day have a say on who sort of governs governs
a place.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
So I think it's.
Speaker 8 (05:20):
Good for democracy that people have had had a choice, had.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Made that choice.
Speaker 8 (05:27):
And look, from my perspective, of course there's rebuilding to
do within the party, but it's really working with the
anti government in partnership to deliver for territorians because that's
what we'll all be judged on come the next federal
election and come the next territory election.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Look, did they see it coming? I mean, do you
think that they truly understood that they are on the
path to a walloping I.
Speaker 8 (05:53):
Think they saw the swing coming. I just don't think
they saw it in the magnitude of it, of what
it was. So you know, there's some seats still that
are close, and you know, we're sort of regardless of
what the result is with those seats, We've got a
(06:14):
strong mandate for the CLP as the and T government
now to enact their policies. I'm not going to agree
with all of them, but I think it's incumbent on
all of us to develop this place, provide opportunities to territory,
and so that's what we're going to remain focused on.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
And Justine, for you now, as an independent stepping in,
I think your role becomes a really important and crucial
one in terms of well, you know, holding the government
to account. But what's the reaction been for you over
the last couple of days.
Speaker 7 (06:47):
For me personally, I think it's pretty overwhelming. But I
feel very motivated and very grateful to have the opportunity
to be representing my community and also be able to offer,
as you said, another set of eyes, ears and voice
in parliament.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
So yeah, yeah, and Cat, I mean you and I
have covered a lot of elections.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Really over the years.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I was having a think about it the other day
it must be my third or fourth thrill. Then territory election.
Then you look at the federal elections, and you know,
they're always interesting, they're always different. And I think I'd
said on Friday, and I'd sort of said to you
and Matt Cunningham, look, I think the Bush seats will
be safe for Labor. I felt like Sanderson and Nightcliff
(07:31):
would be safe Labor seats, but I felt as though
everything else was up for grabs. And as those results
started to come through on Saturday night and you saw
somewhere like Sanderson that many people had regarded as a
very safe Labor seat starting to turn, you know, you
could see that the swing was well and truly on.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, absolutely, and it was on early.
Speaker 9 (07:53):
We were waiting for a while for the NTec to
put through those first ballot box up on the website.
But yeah, certainly, once you saw what was happening, and
I mean, I think it was a bit of an
indication of where perhaps Labor thought that they were going
to do.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Okay.
Speaker 9 (08:08):
The fact that Kate Warden and Brent Potter were both
at the election party for Labor very early on, especially
to be sort of talent to speak to the media
suggested to me that perhaps they thought they were going
to be okay, and then obviously things changed very quickly.
I think I saw it was it might have been
Bill Shorten who said Territorians vote like the tides, that
(08:30):
we have very big tides and.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Very slow lows, and.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
They come in and they go out.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
So I thought that was a very good analogy.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
You know that we're unforgiving, I guess in a lot
of ways, but you know, I really feel, you know,
for me in this role every single day, I'm very
privileged to speak to normal, every day people every single day,
and that doesn't end when I step out of this studio.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
In fact, it probably happens more so when you're.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
At kids, athletics, at soccer, at different sports and at
different activities. And people were really very clear to me
that they were unhappy with the direction in which the
Northern Territory was heading.
Speaker 9 (09:10):
A long time ago, I had said in her concession speech.
People made up their minds, I think a long time ago,
like of course we you and I and Matt and
others had said we thought Eva had sort of shifted
the dial a bit, and probably people were like, yeah,
she's done okay, but you know, it's only eight months
to the election.
Speaker 6 (09:29):
And I think one of the things that was severely
underestimated by the Labor government was the angst that was
felt by the public sector. Every person that I ever
spoke to who worked in the public service was desperate
for change. They have felt that no one was listening
to them. They weren't able to get their jobs done.
The frontline workers were really struggling to stay on top
(09:51):
of things. And I think that when you stop listening
to the people who are there in your community, who
were there doing their every day stuff, you're really asking
for what happened on Saturday night to happen. And that's
just to be told overwhelmingly.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Enough is enough.
Speaker 6 (10:07):
We need a change, We need some change in direction.
We need someone to start listening to us. And certainly
on the door, that was the message that I was getting.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
Mixed one or four point nine three point sixty the
week that was the most listened to our in Territory radio.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Well, if you have just joined us this morning in
the studio, we've got the incoming member for Port Darwin,
Robin Carl. We've got the member for Solomon, Luke Gosling.
We've got the incoming member for Johnson, the Independent, Justine Davis,
and we've got Kathleen Gazola from nine News Darwin. Now,
it's been a big week for the incoming government. Of
(10:42):
course Leophano gros morning as the new chief Minister, the
first female COLP chief minister, that's right, Yeah, and also
the Deputy Jared Mayley's morning. Now.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
They've both taken on a.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Swag of portfolios in the interim twenty each.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I think it was just in the interim so for.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
This week, but I guess you know they're gonna have
to hit the ground running, there is no doubt about that.
I do think that people have an expectation that while
they won't see a change to some of what's going
on in the Northern Territory immediately, there is certainly an
expectation that there is going to be a change. Robin,
how do you think you sort of juggle that as
(11:24):
an incoming new government in terms of trying to meet
people's expectations without maybe making, you know, some mistakes along
the way.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
Well, I think certainly when I've been talking to people
as we led up to the election, there are things
that we've said that we could do reasonably quickly. So,
for example, Declan's Law, which is so critical if we
want to actually stop that revolving door that police talk
about with people who are released on bail, released on bail,
released on bail and then end up having a tragedy
as we did with young declar. So those sorts of
(11:56):
things are pretty much ready to go for the first
sitting of Parliament, and everybody that I've talked to understands
that that much larger, bigger picture generational stuff is going
to take longer and is going to take consultation with
lots of different groups, working with the police, working with
community services, working with the community, and that.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
We have to get it right. So we can't rush it.
Speaker 6 (12:21):
We have to make sure we get it right because
to get it right, we're really going to have one
shot at this in some of those instances, so we
have to make sure that we actually include everybody in
that discussion.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Justine, it's you know, it is going to be a
bit of a juggle, there is no doubt about that.
Are there things that you sort of have concerns or
issues that have been concerned ray sorry, by those in
your electorate that you're wanting to sort of make sure
that the COLP doesn't get wrong.
Speaker 7 (12:48):
Yeah, and look, I think I'm really happy to hear
the way Robin you're talking about how the COLP is
going to approach things.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
I think we all know. I think the community knows.
Speaker 7 (12:57):
And the same as Robin described when I was talking
to people when I was door knocking, people understand there's
a complex, long term problems. They want they want things
to be different, they want them to get fixed up.
They absolutely want change, as Robin said. And I think
just in terms of what we were saying before, what
Robin was saying before this selection was a really clear
(13:20):
call out for change. I think we shouldn't miss the
story that there was a huge upswing in support for
independence in my seat and for Greens, and that people
wanted something different. Many people at the polls were saying
to me in seats where there was only two options,
where's the third option?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
We want a third option.
Speaker 7 (13:41):
I think, yeah, this also, I think this is a
really clear call for change. But it's I think the
mandate is a mandate to do what the community wants,
exactly as Robin said, and I think that there's so
change is challenging.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
It scares people.
Speaker 6 (13:58):
Yeah, they often want to, they often call for it,
but the process to get there can be quite complex.
So I think one of the things that I struggled
with during the whole of the campaign was not I
could I just simply couldn't understand why people were calling
out for change and people were saying things are not okay,
and the previous labor government was saying, look, there's nothing
(14:19):
to see here, everything's fine. So I think the first
thing we have to acknowledge is everything's not fine, and
that message has been sent loud and clear, and you'll see.
The very first thing that Leah did in her role
was meet with the Police Commissioner to reinforce the fact
that we have to get this right and we have
to work together with police.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
We have to support them, we have to retain them.
Speaker 6 (14:40):
There's a massive number of police out there who are
on long term leaf for a variety of reasons. We
have to get them back on their feet, back at
work to do the job that they love, working with
our community, becoming a really visible part of our community
so that people immediately feel that sense of safety, and
then we can work with the community to progress that through.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Well, let's make no bones about it. I mean, the
area that people want to see change is crime. There
is no doubt that they want to see a reduction
in the level of crime that we are seeing on
the streets of the Northern Territory.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
I mean, Luke, is there.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
A part to play here for the federal government in
terms of supporting I know a lot of people really
felt that Labor were not only sort of dragging their
heels in a lot of ways, but they almost felt
like it was contempt towards the community that you know
that they you know that they were almost saying to
the community, Look, you know, these issues are complex, but
(15:35):
you guys aren't smart enough to understand why we can't
fix them. And I think that's what frustrated people are, Losh.
Speaker 8 (15:41):
And that's maybe what you were hearing too with your
talk back from people there. So I don't think we
should pretend though, that the former Labor government, that evil
Oil and Ben Potter was saying nothing to see here.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I mean telling us it was too complex, you know,
I like that it was comple lex issues.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Let's not pronounced that.
Speaker 8 (16:04):
Let's not forget that curfews were put into place where
it was seen that they were needed big, big recruiting
drives or more police. I mean, that's what the community
was calling for. They didn't see enough police presence, they
didn't see that active patrolling enough. So I think, yeah,
I just I think we need to acknowledge that those
(16:27):
things were timely. They ended up even being a little
bit more complex than the government at the time probably realized.
But now it's going to be really important I think
for or the Police Association for example, to work with
the government. I'm sure they will to make sure that
(16:50):
our police are supported. Calls for more support to police
so they can get back on the job aren't a youth.
So I take the point that you were making, Katie
about what the community was feeling from the government. But
I also don't think we should throw out everything they did,
(17:12):
because there were some good things there and we should
keep the good and try and enhance.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
We should never throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Speaker 9 (17:20):
Sure, but I think it was probably like too little,
too late, effectively. You know, when Natasha was sworn in
as Chief Minister, she highlighted crime as the number one priority,
But then it sort of felt like a lot of
things continued on the same you know, the five hundred
and seventy million dollars over five years that EVA committed
to was announced in May budget and then obviously Brent
(17:43):
Potter came in as Police Minister and people had been
crying out for more police for a long time.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
During that last.
Speaker 9 (17:51):
Week there was a big focus from EVA and Brent
about police and tackling crime and that kind of stuff,
and I put to them, well, you know, don't you
acknowledge that this is probably a bit late really, And
you know, it was harping back to the review, which
we both know.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Took a very long time to get feed to.
Speaker 9 (18:11):
And then that magical figure of one hundred and twenty
extra police that was promised in twenty twelve by Terry Mills,
which came out of a review done in twenty eleven
under the Hando government. It was just like, let's get
rid of that figure, Like who cares if you had
to recruit that before then you could do a review
before you did this, and then you're doing two hundred
extra police, like no one gives a crap about that.
(18:34):
They just want to see more police patrolling, which I think,
you know, it's probably a good move from LEA to
kind of say to the commissioner, let's get some of
those playing clothes officers, which I'm sure, I'm sure is
not going to be very popular across certain spectrums of
the units. But you know that's what Matt Patterson, the
ar Springs mayor, has said, that visibility of blue uniforms
(18:57):
walking the pathways.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Well like even when the cruise ships used to arrive
in town many years ago and you'd sort of have
the police out on the segways and the police on there.
Speaker 6 (19:07):
Aicon time I saw a uniform police officer in the
model other than just passing through or responding to an incident,
and just that comfortable interaction with the community, particularly the kids,
because when you build relationships with those kids, it changes
the dynamic significantly about how they behave.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
And look, there is no doubt that we need more police,
and I do just want to talk about an incident
that's been reported on over the last couple of days
as well, where there was a situation where the Australian
newspaper reporting that the Northern Territory Police were unable to
conduct a welfare checked for a check for a malacc
woman nine hours before she was allegedly murdered by her partner.
(19:52):
The forty three year old woman was found dead in
her home on August twenty one, following a report to
police at twelve ten am. Now her partner was later
charged with murder as well as breaching a domestic violence order.
So The Australian reported yesterday that Territory Families had requested
a welfare check for that woman about three pm, just
(20:16):
nine hours before her death, but it has been reported
police were not able to attend due to higher priority incidents.
Now we've spoken to the police on so many occasions
about the sheer volume of callouts they are receiving when
it comes to domestic violence, the sheer volume of call
(20:38):
outs that they're receiving when it comes to all sorts
of incidents. But I mean, this is a tragic situation.
It made me sort of start to question and have
a look at the way that things are being done
differently in other states. And I know that in Queensland
they've got a domestic violence task Force that goes out
(20:58):
to some different incidents where it's not just then the
reliance on the police to go and do checks like that,
but other agencies like an interagency sort of response, I
don't know whether that's the answer, but we cannot Yeah, like,
we can't have something like this happening.
Speaker 7 (21:16):
Absolutely, Katie, and thank you for raising that. And I
think that's the story we don't talk about when we
talk about crime. We know that maybe at least sixty
five percent of police time is spent on family and
domestic violence. At least sixty five percent of the people
in prison are there in relation to family and domestic violence.
All of the young people who are in contact with
(21:37):
a criminal justice system have been exposed to family and
domestic violence.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
That's our real crisis.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
We are seeing women being murdered.
Speaker 7 (21:47):
As in the story you just said, you're just told
and it's on all of us to make sure that
doesn't happen.
Speaker 6 (21:52):
That's why we have to absolutely go back to look
at the root causeste.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Why is this happening?
Speaker 6 (21:57):
Why do we have a situation where we have such
a significantly out of proportion number when you compare.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
To what's happening in the rest of the country. And
I think in these.
Speaker 6 (22:09):
We're allowed to do that the rules, but you know
it's that why is it so much worse here? And
we're looking at alcohol abuse as being one of the
primary course. It's not just of domestic violence, but we
see the presentations in the hospital system which are alcohol related,
the children who are being neglected which is alcohol related. Clearly,
that's where we have to start focusing to actually fix
(22:32):
the broader generational issue.
Speaker 7 (22:34):
I mean, I think that one of the things that's
really important whatever we're doing. I mean, I know you
you know your backgrounds in working round complex systems as well,
is get the best information we have.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
We have.
Speaker 7 (22:45):
We have all this research and data to say what
is that we need to do randomestic and family violence.
There is a plan about what needs to happen. I
heard that the Salpece committed.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
We're absolutely committed to that.
Speaker 6 (22:56):
One of the other things I think is really important
when we do have these situations of domestic violence where
the perpetrator or the alleged perpetrator is out on bail,
that we're going to have them electronically monitored. That doesn't
currently happen, and we also have to look at mandatory
offenses for those repeat offenders. We have to protect the victims.
And I think that one of the very strong messages
(23:18):
that I was getting in the community and you probably experience.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
This as well.
Speaker 6 (23:21):
Just seen is that victims felt that they were being
left behind.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
Absolutely preventions big oa.
Speaker 8 (23:28):
So the federal government gives the anti government a lot
of financial support for combating domestic family and sexual violence,
and obviously that will continue. It's a little bit frustrating
when you're here that needs based funding without saying exactly
(23:49):
what is me I heard it a lot, but can
I just put it on the record because I used
to have this conversation with the former anti labor government.
A lot is that it's not per capita funding to
the Northern Territory. In fact, it's thirteen times per capita.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
So we're already receiving more.
Speaker 8 (24:11):
Obviously we need it, yeah, but we just need to,
I think, not forget the important role of prevention. So
on the other end, it's too late when someone's out
on bail, a might you know, if the then t
government legislated, they might have an ankle bracelet on.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
But by then there's just been so much damage done.
Speaker 8 (24:32):
And when you look at the young people on the street,
not only have they been exposed to domestic family and
sexual violence, but they're probably victims of it themselves sometimes.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
And that's why we about to do, so they're traumatized.
We're talking about young traumatized.
Speaker 6 (24:45):
We have to actually get the workers in place, and
that's one of the things we're definitely hearing is a
lot of those agencies who are being tasked with dealing
with that just cannot get the workers that they need here,
and so that flows on to the make people know
that this is a place where it's so to live,
where it's a good place to come, and then you
just start to get this turn of the tide. You
(25:06):
get more people in place, you get the services being
able to deliver the services that they're there to deliver,
and suddenly you have a whole sense of change where
you can actually then build on the prevention cycles and
reduce the actual.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
People with impact of that. Long term stuff absolutely needs
to happen. But I mean, when we're talking about a
situation like the one that was reported in the Australian,
like when we're at that real pointy end and we're
not able to get somebody to go out and do
a welfare check, surely we've got to look at doing
things a little bit differently. And if the police resources
(25:42):
are so incredibly tight at the moment, that there's other
priority jobs that are higher than that. Are there other
ways that we can make sure that somebody is able
to be checked on ie, Is there you know, another
department or other support services around because we can all
have a situation like this.
Speaker 9 (26:02):
Again, well, I think that's a good point because we've
heard from the coronial inquest that the coroner has heard
had had conducted about the four women who were killed
due to domestic violence? Is that and we've heard this
so often across government that departments work in silos. You know,
the computer systems and the things don't all mesh together
(26:23):
that you would have thought, surely it seems common sense.
But you know, depending on processes and systems and all
the rest of it, that police get a report about
a woman that surely when it comes in, that comes
up with the domestic violence order for twenty years, that's
how much she had copped over that time that they
put that order in. And still it took that long
(26:43):
to be able to go and see that, which is
such a massive concern. I think the Commissioner has also
led the charge of a corresponder model in terms of
having territory families workers going along with police to domestic
violence call outs.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I think that question we have.
Speaker 6 (26:59):
To do things differently. There has to be a better
utilization of resources. And one of the things that we're
certainly seeing where you talk about territory families who are
overwhelmed and primarily only have time to deal.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
With the worst of the worst cases. We have to
look at why that is.
Speaker 6 (27:15):
We have to go, Okay, these are the people who
are seeing it firsthand. Ideally and sensibly they would be
the people who could make that first contact. So we
have to really look at how those resources are being used.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
And there has to be a better way to do it.
Speaker 7 (27:30):
And as you said, Robin, we need to look at
and as Lek said, we need to look at the
long term causes. And I just wanted to say earlier
on when you were talking about alcohol, we absolutely have
to address the harm done by alcohol. But alcohol does
not cause violence. Alcohol exacerbates and it makes it worse.
There are many people who use alcohol who are not violent,
(27:50):
and I think we need to be really clear that
we don't mix those two things up.
Speaker 6 (27:54):
I think when you have a child who has for
two previous generations seeing that's a normal relationship, that's where
your issues really start happening. So when you have the
child of the parent who's the child of the grandparent
and that's normal to them, that's how you deal with
your life situation. That's the thing that we have to
look at changing.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Can I just make a quick point about workforce.
Speaker 8 (28:17):
We've got some issues, like there's funding there for more
frontline workers in domestic family and sexual violence.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
It's really tough work.
Speaker 8 (28:26):
What we've done federally, not saying this is a massive thing,
but we're trying to support people so that when they're
doing their training as a social worker, for example, they're
now going to get paid placements. But whereas before it was,
you know, it's not paid as much as other roles,
and it's really stressful. So we need to support those
(28:47):
workers more and really focus on recruiting. I think like
this is really important life saving work, and really support
the people who put their hands up to do that work.
Speaker 7 (28:58):
And one of the things I'd say round that frontline
service work, it's wonderful about the commitment to implementing that
one hundred and eighty million dollars. There needs to be
a long term, ongoing commitment because we all know any
of us who've done any of this kind of work
that having short term funding commitments for running services just
does not work.
Speaker 6 (29:16):
One of my frustrations having worked in health has always
been you do the pilot project that's exceptionally successful and
it gets defunded and the project that doesn't work. The
money keeps getting thrown at it because we're going to
make it work. So I think we have to switch
that narrative and go this works, we need to keep
it going.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Yep, this isn't working. We need to rethink it.
Speaker 6 (29:36):
And I think that's just very fundamental common sense and
I know often that's lacking in a lot of bureaucratic
processes from my own personal experience, but it's you know,
it's something we actually have to buite.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
The bullet and do.
Speaker 5 (29:48):
The week that was the most listened to our in territory.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Radio, well it is to stay eight minutes away from
ten o'clock, getting a few messages people saying how lovely
to listen to the show this morning and very respectful discussion.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Look, it's still very early days of.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
The new the new makeup of the parliament, so we'll
see how it goes. But look, I do want to
discuss the fact that we know. The Law Society of
the Northern Territory say that they are deeply concerned it
moves by the newly elected Northern Territory government to wind
back the age of criminal responsibility to ten. So the
society's president has come out and said this comes at
(30:25):
a time when other Australian jurisdictions are considering policy reforms
which will raise the age and as such the society
strongly urges the government to reconsider this step. I mean,
the thing is, though the Seal, the incoming CLP government
certainly had a mandate of the different changes that they
were going to make when it comes to dealing with
(30:46):
the issues of crime, and people voted for you guys
on a large majority, so.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
You would have to assume that.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
People were supportive of those different changes that are looking
to be introduced.
Speaker 6 (31:00):
Yeah, absolutely, Katie, And I think the thing we have
to take a minute to step back from is this
jurisdiction is not the East Coast of Australia and it's
not the West Coast of Australia. And I think the
other thing we have to focus on is we're not
actually talking about luring it so we can throw kids
in jail. We're actually talking about luring it in response
to advice and feedback that we've had from police from
(31:23):
other groups saying we cannot access these kids, we cannot
do anything to help them if the only thing that
we're able to do is take them back to that
mythical responsible adult, which I still haven't.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Been able to find out what that actually means.
Speaker 6 (31:37):
And so it really is about making sure that we
can take those kids somewhere where they're safe, where we
can actually get them fed, clothed, get them back into school,
get them to a place where they are learning what
it's like to be in a home where there are
cuddles and consequences, because that's how we raise our kids.
We go you do this, this is the consequence, and
(31:58):
you do this. Oh my god, you've done so well.
We're going to give you a cuddle. So these are
kids who are, as we were just saying, haven't seen that.
They haven't been brought up that way. They don't have
the privilege that I had, or that you had in
being raised in a family that said here's the line
in the sand. Do not go past that, because if
you do, you're not going to have your TV you're
not going to have this, You're not going to have
(32:19):
something else.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
So basically been abandoned.
Speaker 6 (32:21):
And I do not want to be one of the
politicians in ten years time where people say you disabandon
these children. I don't want to have that label thrown
at me. I actually want to see with our team
members that we actually do something positive.
Speaker 9 (32:33):
And that consequences word is the big thing that I
know a lot of people that we've interviewed and who
have called up to your show. Yeah, I wanted to
see No everyone agrees that no one wants to see
ten year olds locked up in don Dale and that's
the last resort. But you know, the Labor government had
promised to increase the age when those programs were in
place to be able to deal with that younger Cohort
(32:57):
and I don't know about UK. I'm pretty sure much
the same of what we got. Whenever we ask territory
families all the minister what those programs were, give us
an example how it works, we couldn't get that information.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Which makes it really hard then to sort of to
look at what's potentially successful or what is potentially going
well or what's not going well. When you're really not
getting any of that information, and then you're sort of
getting behind the scenes detail from maybe people that are
you know, that are working in those remand centers and
(33:33):
and things like that, that are saying to look, you know,
there's there's no real change for these kids because there
aren't programs that they're able to get stuck into.
Speaker 6 (33:43):
Ores can't even make those kids go to school. It's
that it's a position that has no authority, no power.
So in the very first instance, if you can get
those kids who are roaming around during school hours back
into the school system and act show them what it
means to have someone take an interest in I'm sure
you've all had the school teacher that changed your life.
(34:06):
The one who was such an influence on your mine
was missus Brandon. She was my English teacher back in
year nine, and she made going to school great and
I felt like she cared about me and it made
me work a little bit harder. These kids don't have
that happening for them right now, and we really need
to change that.
Speaker 7 (34:23):
Yeah, and I think, I mean, I think absolutely everyone
and everyone I spoke to obviously everyone, you know, there's
this clear mandate that we need to be doing something
about this. I don't think that translates to this idea
of lowering the age of criminal responsibility. I think that's
that's mixing up two things.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
I really hear.
Speaker 7 (34:40):
What you say, Robin, and what I've heard other people
in the colp stay about this is this is the
only way we can actually meet the needs.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Well, this is the way we started this, that's the
way we start.
Speaker 7 (34:53):
Yeah, Look, I think before my view is before we
do anything like that, we need to actually look at
what's going to work. There is no evidence that I
have seen anywhere that lowering the age of criminal responsibility
is going to make any of us more safe. In fact,
it's going to do harm as opposed to helping the
young people. And I think before we do that, as
a law society is calling for, we need to get
(35:16):
proper evidence. We need to have an inquiry. We need
to look at it was only a year ago that
they changed, their age was changed. What's happened in that year?
Where's the evaluations of what?
Speaker 6 (35:24):
Well, nothing's happened because the basic simple things that they
said they were going to do to a deal with
those kids never happen.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
So you make the change.
Speaker 6 (35:32):
When you've got the alternative in place, and you don't
make the change before you've got the alternative in place.
And you know, I struggle to think it's okay to
live in a community where our alcohol gets locked up,
where you can't even buy an aerosol deodorant. I can't
even buy vanilla essence off the shelf in the supermarket.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
That is not normal. That is not normal.
Speaker 6 (35:56):
And so we actually have to find a way to
get those kids to his place where they they're not
doing that, they're not looking for that.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
There's got to be rules and regulations in place that
people have to know right from wrong. Luke seabusting to
say something. I'm not getting a word in there with us, sorry, mate.
Speaker 8 (36:13):
I think the lowering the age thing the ten was
just to differentiate themselves during their campaign. I don't think
it's based on expert advice.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
It may not be, but the community voter for the Seals.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Are expert than who is.
Speaker 8 (36:33):
So there's a lot of experts that would say that
you're basically setting up very young children for a life
within a system. So that's there, that's their life mapped out.
They have just some time in the place formerly known
as don Dale and graduate on to Holtz and that
(36:55):
is that's not a recipe for success. Some other jurisdictions
have gone to fourteen, which territorians obviously do not want
and intuitively know is not the Casely, what Justine s
makes a lot of sense, Like, you know, are the
experts saying, no, we definitely need to put ten year
old kids into detention.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
I challenge that we're not actually talking about doing that.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
But Wally struggle with, like with this whole discussion, is that,
you know, nobody can actually give me an example of
a program that a ten year old has done that's worked.
Speaker 7 (37:30):
And in the Northern Territory, well.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
A luck when we on the show under yeah, like
under different in the Northern Territory, nobody can actually show
me or has has been able to demonstrate what has worked.
And the other thing that that always sort of you know,
that always sparks my attention is is we've built a
whole new detention center that is supposed to be appropriate
(37:55):
and built to reform young people. So and still and
still with those programs that are though supposed to be
helping these young kids. So you know, whether they're sixteen,
whether they're thirteen or whether they're ten, if that's the
intention of that facility, does it matter what age they are,
(38:16):
If we're actually looking after them properly and you're delivering
programs in.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
There, is it actually a gap?
Speaker 4 (38:21):
Right? We definitely needed it.
Speaker 8 (38:22):
I've mean, I went out to don Dale several times
at the old barhamasite and it's just shocking, you know,
an old Yeah, it's just wasn't right. So it's good
that we've got this new facility. Everyone's really keen to
see it open, but also keener to hear about what
sort of programs they're going to be running here, what
if they are good ones.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Side, there's not a situation where it you know, where
if a child and if it's going to help them
get on track, wouldn't it be a good thing.
Speaker 8 (38:49):
One of the things federally my number one priority was
the funding of a youth engagement hub for the Northern
suburbs and I think that's that prevention piece again, that's
picking up the kid that have got concerns, like identifying them,
getting them some mentoring support, but working with the families
as well. You can't do anything with a child if
you're not also working with the family, because eventually that
(39:13):
is the environment that the child will go back into.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
So it's got to be more holistic.
Speaker 8 (39:17):
Trust me, it's been as frustrating for me as for
anyone else that there hasn't been these other options. Like
people used to always say to me, Look, we need
to go back to the wild Man River idea. We
need to have opportunities for these kids to get out
into an environment where they can be really worked with
and cared for, and I think there's been a real
(39:40):
lack of those options.
Speaker 6 (39:41):
And to do that you have to have a legislative
structure that says you can actually intervene, and clearly at
the moment we don't because we're seeing the consequences of
these kids being abandoned because that's what we've done. So
I think one of the things that's really important that
we've taken on very critically is we're doing significant consultation
with indigenous mentors.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
We're actually listening.
Speaker 6 (40:02):
To them, and to be honest with you, they are
really fierce and have a far stronger view about what
we should be doing with these kids than we've actually
talked about. So I think we need to understand and
realize that there is a breadth of views out there,
but we have to have a starting point and for
the COLP government and for the community who have overwhelmingly
(40:24):
supported what we said, we're going to do that is
to actually create a point in time where we can
start working with kids younger, because the younger you can
get to them, the betterer chances are of changing things.
Speaker 7 (40:35):
Absolutely, but I think we don't do that by criminalizing children.
And a ten year old is not a mini adult.
They're a ten year old child. And we all know
that these children are children who are survivors of great
trauma most of the time.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
And I totally agree with I.
Speaker 7 (40:52):
Think when we talk about consequences, that's the language people use.
Actually what we need to be talking about is accountability.
And absolutely people need to be accountable for accountability, for
parents certainly, accountability and also for young people. And people
become accountable when they understand the impact of what they've
done and there's a pathway forward to change it.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
And there's a consequence for their actions, absolutely that they
are part of designing.
Speaker 7 (41:15):
So a lot of the work that I've been involved
in around reservative justice actually does that. There are things
that we know can work. As you're talking about there
are people on community, there are Aboriginal leaders who are
doing this work now and if if we're properly supported,
it could keep happening and could make a huge difference
right away.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
That's just about it for us this morning, our first
week that was with the new members of parliament yet
to be sort of what do they do?
Speaker 3 (41:40):
Do they induct you?
Speaker 2 (41:41):
What we get to go to MLA school? How long
does that take a couple of days?
Speaker 6 (41:50):
We're all looking that's I'm not quite sure what to expect,
but it'll be fun.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (41:55):
One of the things, one of the things on the
agenda is what is the point of parliament? So I'm
looking forward to keep your spirits up because.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
To do some good.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Well, look, it has been wonderful to have you all in.
Before we wrap up, I mean, we are still expecting
the ministry to be announced. I think on Tuesday, is
that right, Kathleen or Tuesday?
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Yeah, it was early next week. But were you tipping
for different jobs there.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Might be a ministry maybe in this room.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
America, a lot of people would assume.
Speaker 6 (42:29):
So you know what people to make.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
True.
Speaker 9 (42:35):
But yes, given the size of the COLP team, I
reckon you know, they would have been a little bit
worried of just how big, because that never bodes well
for a parliamentary team when it's hard does potentially seventeen seats.
We saw Michael Gunner had to revert to assistant ministries
and yeah, I think that really.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Worked out too well, for it's hard trying to keep
everybody happy and in control and in line.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
Isn't it a.
Speaker 4 (43:02):
Big restless backbench? Yeah, we'll it'll be really interesting.
Speaker 8 (43:06):
I'm really interested in seeing who comes to Broom with
us next week for the North Australian Minister's meeting. So
we've got several federal ministers coming to speak with ministers
from wa, NT and Queensland just about how we can
work better together and make the most of this massive
defense investment in Northern Australia for example, but also all
(43:27):
the other investments that are going on through the NAVE.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
So hoping to have a Minister for Northern Australia by
them what day as in here locally?
Speaker 4 (43:34):
Yeah, so the meeting is Wednesday in Broom.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
A wonderful no by him.
Speaker 8 (43:41):
Might be the Chief might be Jared, who knows, but yeah,
be interesting to see.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Robin just might go.
Speaker 8 (43:50):
Can I quickly point out just a little bit of
federal news is that we inherited from Scott Morrison and
the Coalition six point one percent in this month. We're
down to three point five, so it's really we're driving
it down as well as providing text cuts and energy
bill relief and so forth, so that bodes well. Keeps
(44:12):
tracking this way for interest rate cuts from the Reserve.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Bank, sounds like an election pitch.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
We're heading in the right direction.
Speaker 6 (44:20):
But you know, we had a message loud and clear
about cost of living here in the Northern Territory, so
whilst that might have been empty based, federal still impacted.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
Yeah. Well look we are going to have to wrap up.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
It's lovely to have you all in the studio this morning.
Robin Carl the incoming member for the COLP for Port Darwin,
lovely to.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Have you in here. Great to be here.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Katie Luke Gosling, the Member for Solomon, the Federal Member
for Solomon also Special Envoy for Northern Australia Veterans Affairs
and Defense.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
Thanks Katie.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
Justine Davis, the incoming Independent Member for Johnson.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
Lovely to have you in the studio.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Thank you, Thanks Katie, and of course Kathleen Gazola on
her day off, the executive producer of nine years, Darwin,
thank you for your time,
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