Tim Swackhammer - how to have a healthy home - 5 Star Wellbeing Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Arwen Bardsley (00:00):
Okay, welcome everybody. Welcome back to

(00:02):
another episode. Reallyinterested and excited today to
have a wonderful guest who Ihaven't had this type of guests
for a little while and Tim'sSwackhammer, who I'm about to
speak with just reminded me thatI did a while back have a
building biologist, LaudyCincotta on and I'll put the

(00:27):
details of that episode in theshow notes. But today, I'm
really happy to be talking withTim, who is the founder and the
CEO of mold medics. Tim ispassionate about helping people
with practical solutions toenvironmental issues, so that
they can feel safe, comfortableand well in their homes. Mold

(00:51):
medics specializes in helpingpeople who are suffering from
chronic health issues eithercaused or worsened by their
environments. As the highestrated mold remediation
contractor in Pennsylvania, Timhas overseen more than 1700,
mold removal projects, as wellas countless other indoor air

(01:12):
quality services, includingRADON Mitigation, air duct
cleaning, and various types ofenvironmental testing. So
welcome, Tim, I love to juststart with a bit about you and
your background. And you know,how you got to be where you are
now doing what you are now whatled up to that?

Tim Swackhammer (01:37):
Yeah, well, thank you very much for having
me on and excited to talk aboutwhat I think it's obviously a
very important topic. And Ithink your listeners will
definitely get a lot out of it.
So yeah, I mean, my name is TimSwackhammer. So whenever I
originally got started, wedidn't, didn't really set out to
get into mold or indoor airquality issues. It's kind of a

(01:57):
kind of a long story. But themore abbreviated version is was
involved in franchising. And weactually were involved with a
different home service franchisebrand. And while we were there,
that's when we saw theopportunity in the mold removal,
an indoor air quality space,because we really saw that there

(02:19):
were, especially in the stateshere, there's a lot of companies
that are restorationcontractors. So these would be
your bigger like Servprosservice masters. They're the
ones that insurance companiescall whenever there's a fire or
a flood something major likethat. And they need to come in
and basically gut the place andslowly put it back together. But

(02:41):
what we found is there wasn'treally anybody out there for
people who are just sufferingfrom indoor air quality
problems. So suffering from moldissues that were not due to a
major flood that they had, butdue to a flaw in the way the
building was constructed, orongoing minor, minor water
intrusion from like leakygutters or downspouts. And

(03:04):
these, these clients were justkind of being left out in the
cold. So that was initially thebasis for mold medics. And then
as we got more into the airindoor air quality space, we
identified an even more specificneed for a remediation
contractor that was focused onindividuals with sensitivities

(03:27):
to mold with environment withhistories of environmental
exposure, where they might havea whole different set of needs
than a more typical, like realestate related mold issue. So
there's really with that basiswhen it came down to finding or
we initially had a few customersthat were in sort of that

(03:51):
sensitive space, where To befrank, the first couple of
times, we didn't really knowwhat we were doing. For them
specifically, we didn't reallyknow how we needed to help
address their specific problems.
And so it came down to a ton ofresearch. My wife always jokes

(04:12):
that I don't have a hobby, andmy hobby is researching other
hobbies. And she's definitelyright to a good extent. And I
definitely fell into that spacehere where I became very, very
focused on Okay, there are thesepeople that have these issues,
and there's not really anybodyout there that can help them. So
how can we develop the protocolsand the processes to help these

(04:36):
clients and it was a ton ofresearch, independent and
certifications with some of thenational accredited agencies
that do certifications forindoor air quality, and really
just a ton of research throughFacebook groups and really
trying to learn what we couldfrom the individuals and their
specific experience. And thenokay, how does that integrate

(04:59):
with what we're doing?

And so you didn't yourself or have a family
member or anything like that, inyour background that had issues
from indoor air quality that itdidn't come from that it just
came from seeing others

no, no, it was just really identifying with a
lot of our clients that theywere having these issues and
having these problems, and therewasn't anybody that they could
really turn to.

And so do you work with functional medicine
practitioners, integrativedoctors, or, you know, I don't
know, naturopaths, even anyother, you know, professionals
who are coming across thesepeople? Have you developed
partnerships with people likethat?

Yeah, so we've definitely worked with a number
of different functional medicineand naturopaths in the immediate
area, as well as someenvironmental consultants that
do more on the testing and sortof diagnostic side. Yeah, so we
work with a number of them aswell. Because depending on
exactly what the issue is,there's, most of the time, it's
stuff that we can, we can helpwith. But there is some stuff,

(06:04):
like certain VOCs that they theymay need a different course of
action depending on what's goingon.

So are Environmental Consultants, more
like building biologists.

So building biologist is honestly not a term
that we use very frequently inthe States. Environmental
hygienist is typically thepreferred term, but that they
generally focus more oncommercial applications. So a
lot of the EnvironmentalConsultants, they can be a
variety of different things,most of them start as some sort

(06:39):
of home inspector, orenvironmental tester, and then
they just kind of expand theirknowledge base and practice from
there.

Okay. And so before you got into your working
life, did you have any, youknow, what were your interests
when you were a teenager was Wasthere anything that might have,
you know, led to this kind offield in the future?

Really, I mean, to be honest, the main thing is
just that, that research drive,I always anytime is very, very
curious kid and kind of carriedthat through my entire life. I
think in another world, Iprobably would have gone down
more of a medical type path. ButI slightly dyslexic and school
was really not my thing. It wasa good bit of a struggle for the

(07:29):
actual classroom element of it.
But whenever it came to actuallylearning on my own, and
particularly with topics thatinterested interested me, I was
just like a sponge.

Wow, interesting. Okay. Well, thank
you for that. So what would yousay are the most common indoor
air quality or, you know, homehome or building environment
issues that a lot of people areprobably not aware of?

So one, it's interesting, because it's very,
very regional. And prior to thisconversation, I had not looked
up radon, specifically forAustralia. I was curious as to
how much of an issue it was,there was it an issue at all.
And from the research I was ableto do, it's really not much of a
problem where you're located.
But it's a significant issuewhere we are. So that's

(08:20):
something that is very, verymuch based on your region, and
what part of the world you'relocated in, and the geology of
that area.

So might as well go into that now? What is it?

Sure, so Radon is a gas that comes from the
breakdown of uranium that's inthe Earth's crust. So there's
uranium throughout the soil andhigher concentrations in certain
areas than others. And as itgoes through that radioactive
decay, one of the steps that itare one of the byproducts that
produces is radon gas, thatradon gas emanates up through

(08:59):
the soil and comes into ourhomes through cracks in the
foundation through sewer lines,basically, anywhere that air
could potentially get in, itseeps into the home. And once we
breathe it in, it's acarcinogen, it causes lung
cancer. So it continues todecay, it decays in our lung
causing lung damage that cancause lung cancer on its own. In

(09:23):
the US, it's the second leadingcause of lung cancer behind
smoking. And it can also if youare a smoker or you do other
things that potentially damageyour lungs, it can make it even
worse. So it's a big, big issue.
And it's something that isreally kind of interesting, if
you look at the history of it,because whenever we were first
made aware of it and firstbecame very public, through the

(09:46):
70s 80s and into the 90s. Therewas a fair amount of knowledge
about it going around but a lotof people just kind of wrote it
off because it's odorless, itshas no color, it's completely
colorless, tasteless. So we haveno way of knowing about its
presence through our normalolfactory senses. We just can't

(10:09):
detect it at all. So unless weactually test for its presence
in our home, we have no idea.

And so there are certainly places in Australia
where there is uranium, we've,you know, had a history of
mining it. So is it more whereit's in that larger
concentration? Or what

Yes, that's a great question. It is a
combination of the actualgeology in that specific area.
And it does get very, veryspecific to what is the geology
is literally under your home. Soyou do have regional variations
that can be pretty significant.
where I'm at in Pennsylvaniathrough a lot of the the
northeastern states, it's prettyprevalent, kind of wherever you

(10:58):
are, but even within that youcan have tremendous variations,
just home to home to home.

Oh, okay, interesting. Okay, so then how
do you test for it, there's somekind of detection device,
presumably,

correct.
There's passive radon tests, anda lot of them are, there's some
DIY ones available that use acharcoal canister, or basically
you set it out, it absorbsbasically the air over a set
period of time, generally two tofour days. And then that gets
sealed up and sent to alaboratory for analysis. Or most
professionals use a radon CRM orcontinuous radon monitor. And

(11:37):
that's a mechanical device thatbasically pulls a sample of the
air, generally, it's going to beevery 10 minutes every hour, and
tests for the radonconcentrations.

Okay. And so if somebody does have a radon
issue, then what can be doneabout it.

Yeah, so we install what are called RADON
Mitigation systems. So it'sinteresting whenever we talk
about indoor air quality issues,when we're talking about like
mold, it's remediation becausewe're trying to resolve and
remove the mold from the home inthe first place. But whenever it
comes to radon, you can'tremediate it, because it's
constantly going to be trying toget back in and emanating into

(12:19):
the home. So it is mitigation.
So basically, what that systemlooks like, is a PVC pipe that
goes down below the foundationof your home, and gets installed
and exhausted out to theexterior above your roofline.
And it has a RADON Mitigationfan that's installed on that. So
essentially, your entire subslab underneath your foundation

(12:41):
is put under a negativepressure. So all of those soil
gases are redirected instead ofseeping up through the cracks in
your foundation, they go intothat PVC pipe and then get
exhausted up above your home. Soit's not accumulating in your
indoor environment.

Okay, and then Then what about then it's going
out into the air above yourhome, and it's still in the air
and you know, in theneighborhood, potentially, you
might have, you know, a wholelot of homes with these pipes.
What's the deal then with withthe general air quality of the
neighborhood, or whatever.

So for the most part, the concentrations, once
they mix with the naturaloutdoor air get down to a low
enough level that it's not ahealth health issue. It's really
whenever it's in our homes,homes are subjected to what's
called the stack effect, whichis basically our homes act like
a giant chimney. So it's at amore negative pressure lower in

(13:42):
the home, and then the airbasically gets sucked in from
your base level, whether it'syour basement crawlspace, if you
have one, or if it's a slab ongrade, it would be that main
floor, and then that air movesnaturally up through the home.
So that basement tends to beunder a much higher degree of
suction. So it's actuallysucking in the gas from around

(14:03):
the home. And that's why it canbegin to accumulate and then
homes typically don't exhaustvery well and they're not really
designed to so it gets trapped.
And that's where the radonlevels can accumulate to levels
that they can get very unsafe.

Right and so is that isn't more of an issue in
our modern homes now that arebuilt to as you said, kind of
keep everything in well, youknow, all into insulation and
all that sort of stuff ratherthan airflow like old homes
would have been so isn't more ofa problem because of that?

yeah, definitely can because you're
older homes, they they breathemore. Now thankfully, we're
starting to get to a place whereI mean I looking at it sort of
historically, indoor air qualitywasn't a huge, huge issue for
many, many years. I mean, it wasbut not in the same way that it
is now. Because of a lot of thematerials that we used in the

(14:57):
types of building construction.
They did breathe more. They werepoorly insulated. So air moved
through the home pretty rapidly.
So you had a lot more diffusionwith the outdoor air. And then
as time progressed, we went to aperiod, especially in the states
here where we did some thingsthat were great for efficiency,
but very, very bad for indoorair quality. We're building

(15:19):
homes very, very tight. We'renot allowing them to breathe at
all. And there's some of thosesituations that we still come
across from the 80s and 90s,where they cause mold problems,
because of the ways that theywere constructed, and just doing
things that at the time, wethought was a great idea. And
now we know, it wasn't as wellas the building materials that

(15:40):
we use being more susceptible towater and everything like that.
But now we're finally getting toa point where we're recognizing
more of the indoor air qualityimplications. And there are a
lot of devices like ERVs orHRVs, which are heat recovery
ventilators or energy recoveryventilators. And these are

(16:01):
devices that are designed tobring in outdoor air and exhaust
the stale air from our homes. Sogoing back to that idea that
homes need to breathe, but doingit in a way that it's
controlled, and it iscontrolling for the temperature.
So we're not wasting tons ofelectricity or energy, trying to

(16:21):
keep our home conditioned, whileat the same time letting it
breathe, which is always thatkind of balance.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. No,
thank you. No, I think it wasexactly the same here as far as
how homes were built. But I docertainly, you know, this is a
podcast, there's a globalaudience. So I think it's still
good for people who aren't inAustralia to get the
information. And I was listeningto and I can't remember his name

(16:48):
off the top of my head now. Butthere was another building
environment specialist who I waslistening to on the low tox life
podcast, who's a guy who's basedin America as well. And building
contractor by trade, but thenhe's gone into this whole
specialization of making surethe homes that are built are

(17:10):
healthy. And as you said, yes,the buildings need to breathe,
but he made this comment of wellNo, it's actually the people in
the buildings that need tobreathe, and they need to be
breathing good quality air,obviously. Yeah, great. So with
radon, then, like, how wouldsomebody know that they had an

(17:34):
issue? Is it just unfortunately,that they become sick? Or what
happens?

Testing, testing is really the only way
to actually confirm that thereis an issue there, and know that
you need to have some sort ofmitigation put in.

But so why would somebody know to test? I guess
is what my question is.

Yeah. So that's an that's a great question. And
that is the challenge with radonperiod. Because, thankfully,
again, doctors are starting toget better at recognizing more
links between environmentalissues and health. But that's
not always the first thing thatthey jump to. So even once it
starts to become a health issue,that may not be something that's

(18:17):
immediately identified as apossible cause. But by that
point, the damage is mostlydone. So it really comes down to
a lot of what I'm doing istrying to educate and make sure
that people are aware of thesepotential issues. And no, I
mean, especially depending onagain, it's very regionally
based, but a lot of the statesthat have significant radon
issues through the localDepartment of Environmental

(18:39):
Protection, you can contactthem, and in many cases, they'll
send you a free or completely orgreatly discounted test. So it's
not something that'sprohibitively expensive. It's
really just about awareness.

Oh, okay.
Interesting, right. Alright, so,what else? So let's talk about
mold, I think, you know, moreand more people are becoming
aware of the issues with moldthat, you know, we've got nearly
25% of our population who,genetically are unable to live
with mold toxicity, or, youknow, not unable to live, but

(19:16):
there'll be very unwell. So, Iguess, just to talk to us about
that toxic black mold,especially. And I'm interested
in the whole thing aboutremediation, versus removal as
well with mold.

So yeah, I mean, oh, it's a very
interesting topic. And like youpointed out, thankfully, we're
starting to get a lot more awareof it. And there's a lot more
knowledge floating around aboutmold, which is very much a good
thing, because for years andyears, people would immediately
write it off. It's not a bigissue or, Oh, let me just spray
some bleach on it or a wholevariety of different things

(20:00):
that, again, at the time, wethought might have been a good
idea. And now we know isdefinitely, definitely not the
case. So whenever it comes tomold, I really like to, from an
education standpoint, focus onfirst and foremost, the
prevention. Because at the endof the day, that's going to be
the best line of defense againstmold problems is, what can we do

(20:24):
to prevent them from occurringin the first place, because once
you have one, it gets moredifficult, it gets more
expensive. And it's just a lotmore challenging. So if we can
prevent it from coming up in thefirst place, that's always going
to be my first choice, wheneverpossible. And whenever we talk
about prevention, I like tostart with there's there's four

(20:46):
things that mold needs to grow.
The first thing that it needs isair, which we also need air, so
we can't control that it needs atemperature range, that is
basically the same temperaturerange that we need our homes to
be. So we can't control that.
And it also needs food sources,and a food source for mold. I
mean, mold, and it's thatnatural outdoor environment is

(21:07):
breaking down dead plantmaterial. So that's why it's on
Earth. That's what it does,that's its part in the whole
circle of life is plants die,they need to be broken down. And
mold does that. The downside iswe also build our homes out of
dead plant material. So nomatter what we're providing it a
food source with almost all ofthe construction materials that

(21:29):
we're using. Some and we'll talkabout that in a little bit can
be definitely better choicesthan others there. But no matter
what, we can't really controlthe food source aspect of it
altogether. The final thing thatit needs is moisture, and
moisture is something that wecan control. Now it does get
difficult because we have I liketo kind of break down the

(21:49):
moisture in the two differentbuckets. Because whenever we
talk about how to identify andprevent them, they're really
kind of two differentsituations. And the first one
would be actual water intrusion.
So having this would be afoundation water intrusion,
where you've got water coming infrom the outside pipe leaks are
the things that people tend tothink about whenever they think

(22:09):
about a mold issue. And then thesecond category would be
humidity issues. And these wesee very, very frequently, it's
a lot more common than peoplerecognize, and they're a lot
harder to initially identify,and really try to figure out
okay, where's this coming from?
Or is even is it here in thefirst place?

Yeah, so how can you talk a bit more about that,
how we can realize that we'vegot that mold going on?

Yeah, so talking about the the water
intrusion side. Again, it breaksdown into a couple of different
buckets for ways that we getwater in our homes. So the most
common is going to be waterintrusion from the exterior. So
obviously, we have rain, we haveall kinds of different weather
conditions that can occur on theoutside of our home. And the

(23:04):
home, if it's designed and builtwell and maintained well should
be keeping that moisture on theoutside of the house it doesn't
always do that. So there's acouple of different things that
we see very frequently. Thegrading around the home, gutters
and downspouts are some of themost common issues that we see
where so whenever we talk aboutgrading, we're talking about

(23:26):
basically how the Earth issloped coming up to your house.
And this is something that itshould be sloping away so that
as you have rain, it comes ithits the house, it runs down and
then it should run away from thehouse. If it's sloping towards
the home hasn't been maintained.
Now we've got that rain, it'sgoing to pool and then it's
going to begin to accumulate atthe foundation. And eventually
even with the best waterproofingmaterials it's going to begin to

(23:48):
come in. So grading isdefinitely very important.
Downspouts, so whenever we havegutters and downspouts, we want
to make sure that they're keptclean, we want to make sure that
they're functioning properly sothat the rain that's landing on
the roof is being redirected tothe gutters where it's being
captured, runs down thedownspouts and then away from
the home. A lot of times what wesee here is gutters that are

(24:11):
completely clogged. So then theyget rain that overflows runs
down the side of the house, weget downspouts that are
completely disconnected orbroken at the bottom from
somebody hitting it with thelawnmower. And now we've
redirected all of that waterfrom the roof and we're putting
it just that one corner of thefoundation because the
downspouts not functioning. Soall of those can begin to allow

(24:34):
water to come in from theoutside which is definitely
whenever we talk about exteriorwater intrusion, that's probably
the most common is some sort ofgrading gutter or downspout
issue. But then it's also morebasic stuff your windows doors
making sure that the seals onthose are in good condition
operable and making sure thatany caulking that needs done is

(24:56):
kept up on and it's not driedand cracking to the point where
it's allowing water inside theseareas and then ends up creating
a mold problem. So from theexterior side, that's really
those are kind of the big areas.
But inside our homes, there's anumber of sources sources of

(25:18):
moisture as well. So we haveobviously plumbing, which is a
very, very big one, both yourhigh pressure water lines, as
well as your low pressure sewersystems. These are mechanical
systems that can be subject tofailure. So everything from
lines freezing, if it gets toocold, and the home isn't kept

(25:38):
up, or it has maybe acrawlspace, that's not well
insulated, it can get cold, youend up with pipes breaking, and
now you've got moisture issuesthat will contribute to mold to
something that we seeunfortunately, all the time,
which people hanging stuff ontheir walls, and not really
thinking about what's behind it,and you put a nail or a screw
through a drain line or a waterline. And now you've got a leak

(26:00):
inside the wall cavity. Andwhenever we have any of that go
on, whether it's exterior water,water infiltration, or something
like a plumbing line, and it'shappening inside that wall
cavity. It can go on for areally long time before we
actually notice anything on theinside.Those can be very
problematic.

So is there a way that somebody can be aware
of where they're hitting theirnails into their walls to hang
their pictures?

Yeah, so I mean, stuff like utilizing stud
finders, make sure if you are,if you are hanging anything that
especially if it needs to behung from a stud, you're using
that rather than just pokingholes in the drywall and hoping
for the best. And also just,it's really hard. If it's a new
construction, I always really,really strongly advocate for a

(26:53):
variety of reasons, go throughas many as as many times as you
can walk through the home, filmeverything so that you can
reference it back later. That'ssomething that can be very, very
useful. So you know, where yourpipes are, you know, where your
electric lines are all that kindof stuff, and you can avoid
those issues going forward. Butif it's not new construction,

(27:14):
and so home, that you're justmoving into, look at the home
and just kind of think aboutwhere everything needs to go. So
if I'm looking at a wall, and Iknow that there's a bathroom up
above it, and it's the same wallthat has maybe the shower drain,
or the vanities on, I know thatsomewhere right in that area,
there's going to be water lines,and there's going to be sewer

(27:35):
lines. And just really kind ofthinking through that, because
for the most part, builders tryto do things efficiently. So
generally, you're going to havethose lines that are in areas
where it makes sense. If there'sa kitchen up above it, you're
going to have it right under thesink, it's going to run down
that wall. So just sort ofthinking through a lot of that
stuff before you go and juststart pounding a hole through

(27:56):
the wall and hope for the best.

Yeah. And so if you have a situation where water
is coming, or water is poolingin the wall, or whatever it is,
at so is is any mold thatdevelops from that kind of
scenario, the toxic black mold,

not necessarily so whenever we talk about toxic
black mold, I like to be verycareful because it does it
there's no real formaldefinition for it. But
generally, whenever people talkabout toxic mold, black mold,
they're referring toStachybotrys, which is a very,

(28:39):
very prevalent type of mold,especially whenever we talked
about ones that can negativelyimpact health, no amount of
molds or no active mold growthis something that we want in the
home. So whenever it comes toremediation, we're going to
treat it all basically the same.
But from a health implicationstandpoint, there definitely are
some that are known to be morehealth impacting molds than

(29:01):
others. That being said that,again, a lot of it comes down to
identifying things quickly. Soif you do notice an issue,
taking an extra step toinvestigate things like bubbling
paint, if you notice any painton any sort of painted surface
that starts to bubble or startsto flake away, chances are that

(29:22):
means that there's some level ofwater intrusion coming in from
the backside of that that'scausing that bubbling, it's
causing that material toswallow. And that's a big
indicator that you might have agrowth issue. Something I'm a
big advocate on and actuallyjust got done recording a video
for our website about thisearlier today. clutter in the
home is a huge, huge, hugething. Clutter is depending on

(29:46):
what it is it can cause a moldproblem it can be if you're
talking about like cardboardboxes and things like that we
see all the time people will usethose for storage. They'll have
an unfinished storage area orunfinished basement and they'll
store a bunch of stuff incardboard boxes all along the
foundation wall. Well, whathappens is they end up having
some level of moisture intrusioncome in from that outside, it

(30:08):
gets into that cardboard.
Cardboard immediately soaks itup. It's an organic material
that provides a great foodsource for mold. And now we've
got a big mold problem that'shidden behind those boxes. And
because there's so much clutter,whenever they go in, they can't
see it, because it's on thebackside. So it's not until they
start digging through andreorganizing things that they

(30:30):
actually notice, hey, there'sthis mold problem going on, and
they can start to actuallyresolve it. So utilizing
different materials utilizingstorage racks, keeping things
away from foundation walls, sowhen there is an issue, you're
going to notice it a whole lotsooner. The very typical thing
we see with finished walls forinstance, is they'll first

(30:52):
notice it right above thebaseboard, they'll see like a
little bit of dark colorationstarts to come in above the
baseboard, or a little bit ofbubbling on the drywall or
plaster above the baseboard. Andthat's typically when we'll get
a call, we come out. And once weset up the containment and
everything, we begin the removalprocess. And generally once we

(31:12):
remove that baseboard, we seethat it is a whole lot worse
than what they saw, they sawjust the tip of the iceberg
coming out of the top, but theentire baseboard is absolutely
covered. And then whenever weopen up the wall cavity,
absolutely covered inside thewall cavity as well.

All right, so talk to us about then what do
you do in that situation? Whatis the process of getting rid of
it?

Yeah, so whenever we talk about
remediation, and remediationversus removal, there's a whole
bunch of different articles andstuff written about this. And
there's, again, not a real greatconsensus on it. But generally,
I like to think of it like thisremediation is the entire
process that should be gonethrough to resolve a mold

(31:58):
problem. And removal is justthat one step of the process. So
whenever we're talking about thethe process as a whole, and
depending on what company you'reworking with, they may do things
slightly differently, but it'sgenerally going to look pretty
similar. And really the firststep, there's always going to be
containment. So and thiswhenever I talk to people who

(32:21):
are interested in pursuing a DIYmold remediation project, this
is the part that I alwaysheavily emphasize and caution
them on because it's part that Isee done improperly or omitted
completely the most. And this iswhere you're actually setting up
containment. So generally, it'sgoing to be plastic barriers,
you're going to seal off any ofyour air registers basically

(32:44):
anywhere that air could passoutside of the area that you're
working, and that you'reperforming the remediation, you
want to have that contained offfrom the rest of the home.
Because if you don't do that,you're going to end up spreading
these problems to other areasand contaminating the other
areas of the home. Whenever wego through and actually begin
the removal process, and we'retearing out drywall or other

(33:07):
building material, a lot oftimes that does cause more
particulate more mold spores tobecome airborne. And we don't
want to do that without propercontainment and control measures
setup. So control setting upthat containments very
important. And then whenever wetalk about control measures,
it's air scrubbers with possiblynegative pressure depending on

(33:28):
the situation. And these arebasically big HEPA filtering,
box fans essentially that takedirty air runs through a series
of filters and then exhaust muchcleaner air. And in some cases,
depending on if we're able to,they'll be set up with negative
pressure. So they'll actually beexhausting to the exterior of

(33:49):
the home. And that's reallypreferable whenever we can
because what that does iswhenever we set up our
containment, no matter what nocontainment is going to be 100%
Perfect, it's not going to becompletely airtight, it's always
going to be some gaps, somecracks in the walls, whatever,
where air can possibly passthrough, what we want to do is
by setting up negative pressure,it keeps that area of that we're

(34:12):
working under negative pressure.
So there's always a suctionthere. So if there are any gaps
in the containment or any areasthat air is leaking through,
it's going to be pulling air airfrom the other areas of the home
into the contained space ratherthan pushing that contaminated
air out of the containment. Sovery, very important steps and
again, that's probably thebiggest one that a lot of

(34:36):
homeowners and that sort of theDIY side tends to omit or not
really thinks as important andthey just get right to the
actual removal process. So

ok so once you've contained yet what what
do you look for removal process?

Yeah, so once we've got full containment and
air control measures set upthat's going to be removal. And
this is going to vary greatly,depending on the individual
situation. But we're removingbasically anything that is water
damaged, anything that is thathas active mold growth on it.
We're physically removing,cutting out and bagging using a

(35:18):
special doublebag method to makesure that, again, we're not
contaminating any other areas ofthe home and safely removing it
from the environment. Certaintypes of surfaces can be
cleaned, but for the most part,it's generally going to be an
actual removal of the BuildingMaterial Itself.

Wow. So it's, you know, basically rebuilding
that part of the home that's hadthe damage.

Correct?
Correct. Yeah. And it again, itdepends on what what type of
surface it is, what environmentit is. A lot of times we see
stuff like, carpeting is one ofthe biggest issues, it's not
good for indoor air qualityperiod, particularly if there's
a mold issue. There's just noway to get it 100% clean. So
generally, that's somethingthat's going to be removed no
matter what.

Yeah, yeah.
Okay. And so if it's a surfacethat can be, first of all, what
surfaces can be cleaned? Andwhat's the cleaning process if
that's available?

Yeah, so really, whenever we talk about
cleaning, it's going to belimited to your hard non porous
surfaces that are not an organicmaterial. So this is going to be
stuff like your plastics, yourmetals, glass, any of those are
going to be surfaces where theycan have mold on them. But
whenever they do, it's moldthat's growing on the dust that

(36:36):
is accumulated on the surface,not growing onto the material
itself. Because again, they needthat the mold needs that organic
material as its food source. Soif it's a wood surface, or
drywall, where it's got likepaper, it's going to actually be
building or be growing throughthe surface. So that definitely
needs to go. But like a lot oftimes in bathrooms, there's more

(36:58):
tile surfaces or plasticsurfaces that can be cleaned
rather than removed.

And what do you use to clean mold and talk to I
just remind everybody who mightnot be aware about the fact that
bleach is not the thing to use?

Yes. So there's, whenever it comes to
what is actually used to cleanthere's a variety of different
products, really, any type ofcleaning should consist of a
minimum of two steps. And thisis where unfortunately, a lot of
the the marketing has reallygone way too far and sort of
oversold. And there are even alot of companies especially

(37:37):
where we're at that utilize aspray and pray method of mold
remediation where basically,they coat it in some sort of
antimicrobial or disinfectant,and then call it good. And
that's definitely not what aproper remediation should look
like. That's basically the theanalogy we always use is imagine
you cook yourself a bigbreakfast, you had bacon, eggs,

(38:00):
all that kind of stuff, you'regoing to make a bit of a mess in
the kitchen, there's going to besome grease on the counter,
there's going to be crumbs, allof that. And just using a
And what about concrobium? Doyou have that over there?
product just using anantimicrobial or disinfectant is
the equivalent of saying thatyou're going to clean the
kitchen by spraying a bunch ofLysol on it and then walking

(38:23):
away. We know that's not doingwhat it actually needs to do. So
anytime we're talking aboutcleaning, it needs to involve a
removal of the biofilm that'sbuilt up. So basically, full
removal of anything that's builtup on the surface. And that can
be done through a variety ofdifferent really any type of
basic cleaner for the most part,certain surfaces are going to

(38:48):
need some neat things that havea greater cleaning ability or a
greater ability to break downgrease and things like that. So
they can actually come clean.
But really we're talking aboutjust in many cases, it can even
be just water and soap to get itto get it clean and remove that
biofilm. And then once thatbiofilm has been removed, and

(39:08):
the surface is clean of any dustand any buildup, that's whenever
it's about applying an actualdisinfectant to make sure that
anything that could belingering, is completely killed
and not going to be a problemgoing forward. So for that
there's there's a variety ofdifferent products on the
market. One of the ones that weutilize a lot is product from a

(39:31):
company called Beneffect. Itsproduct called decon 30 it is a
thyme oil based product. So wealways like to use it's very
much a balance betweeneffectiveness and safety and
finding where on that continuum,we need to be based on the
individual situation. So we tryto be as far down the safety
road as we can, with it stillbeing effective. Because

(39:54):
unfortunately, there's there's avariety of products that you
potentially could use that maybe very, very safe, but they're
not going to be as effective asthey should. So that's, that's
one of the ones that wedefinitely utilize. We also
utilize hypochlorous acid, whichis something that is great
because we're able to, weactually are able to produce it

(40:17):
on site. It is the ingredientsin it are vinegar, water and
salt. And then it runs itthrough and basically has
electrodes inside the machinethat chang the way the molecules
are bonded together. So insteadof just being that mixture of
water, salt and vinegar, itcreates hypochlorous acid, which
is a chemical compound, it's thesame thing that our white blood

(40:41):
cells create to fight offinfection. It's an extremely
potent disinfectant while havinga excellent safety profile. So
that's something that wedefinitely utilize, because it's
got a wide variety ofapplication for our business.

(41:05):
So we do have it in the Statesin general, I'm familiar with
it. To be honest, we have notused it to any degree of we
haven't used it extensively. Ithink it's probably an effective
product. Where I do get a littlebit cautious with that is some
of the ways that I've seen itmarketed or recommended does

(41:28):
very much go down that kind ofspray and pray just put it in a
fogger and apply it and thenyou'll be good. Yeah. And that's
that always sends my spideysenses, tingling. Don't
necessarily love to see that.

Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, I've certainlyused it myself and the product
that I have, you do spray it on,but then you do have to scrub it
off. I mean, really, what, whatyou're saying is there's got to
be some elbow grease of eithermachine elbow grease or human
Elbow, elbow grease to actuallyremove the problem?

Yeah. Yeah, you're not going to, it's never
going to be a situation whereyou can just throw it into a ULP
fogger. And just spray it andthen Okay, great. We're done.
Yeah, it would be nice if itworked that way. But that's just
not not reality. But thedisinfectant at the end of the
day, I always like to think ofit, it's, it's almost the least

(42:24):
important part of the process,because that's really just there
to capture everything that wecouldn't physically remove. And
if we're leaning on that, andwe're relying on that, it means
we did not do a great job withthe rest of the processes that
are there.

So and yeah, just to go back to bleach. So
bleach products, really are justliterally bleaching changing the
color of the mold on the surfaceand not dealing with the
underlying roots of the mold.
Even if we're just talkingabout, you know, your bathroom
tiles in your shower. So whatwould you recommend for that?

(43:03):
You know, I guess, common orgarden mold that, you know, a
lot of people do have,especially in their bathrooms or
other wet spaces within thehome, what should they be doing
to remove that or deal withthat?

Yeah, so the the first thing on the the
bleach topic, that problemproblem with bleach, there's
really two big ones. The firstis that when bleach kills mold,
basically it's it's essentiallya one to one ratio that bleach's
energy is consumed by theprocess of killing mold. So
after you apply the bleach, whatyou're left over with is a whole

(43:42):
bunch of water. And that'sdeeply problematic, because now
you've got, you've basicallyjust fed whatever is remaining
after you've applied the bleach,so it doesn't do a very
effective job at actuallykilling mold. And again, a lot
of your 100%, right, it doesoxidize, and it can dye the
surface. So it basically changesthe color, which can help make

(44:05):
you think that it's gone, but isnot necessarily addressing the
underlying issue. As far as thebathrooms in sort of those kinds
of issues, or those kinds ofareas, it really depends on
mainly the surface that we'retalking about. So is it a porous
surface where we're concernedabout the water getting in, in
which case now that's a removalprocess that needs to actually

(44:27):
be removed from the environment?
Or is it just something whereit's building up, shower hasn't
been cleaned very frequently,there's some biofilm skin cells,
all that kind of stuff that canfeed the mold, and now we need
to clean that which really to behonest at most of your bathroom
cleaners, whether they be moreon the safe and non toxic side
are going to do a good enoughjob at actually removing what

(44:52):
you're looking at and removingthe growth if it's on top of a
nonporous finished surface, butit's whenever a lot of these
products and where a lot of thedifferences come in is when
they're trying to reach into,okay, now we can treat porous
surfaces too, and we canpermeate through it and that
most of the time just doesn'treally happen. And that's where

(45:14):
you end up with products likebleach that visually will make
it look like it's done, but doesnot have the desired effect.

Yeah, yeah. And the, like the grouting, I don't
know, if you use the same wordbetween the tiles is, is
certainly porous, isn't it?

It is So it should be sealed. And which they
actually use that product. And,sure, there's a variety of
different sealants work thathelped to provide that
waterproofing and help to sealthe pores, so that it will grow
again, on top of the surfacerather than growing through the

(45:49):
surface.

Yeah. But yeah, it's a really good point about,
as you've said all along, youknow, the first thing to do is
to basically remove the food forthe mold. So cleaning the shower
regularly is something that'sgoing to be a great preventative
measure. And I remember from theconversation I had with Laudy,

(46:14):
the building biologist, shesaid, you know, really, you
should squeegee your shower,every time you have a shower.
And that is something that Ihave started doing, since that
conversation. And you know, it'sreally such a quick and easy
thing to do. And you're thenyou're removing the water that's
lying around, you're removingsome of the skin cells or
whatever other foods you werewere providing for mold. So

(46:40):
great.

The The other big tip I would throw in there
is a lot of times whenever wesee showers or bathrooms that
have more extensive mold issues,especially in those corners in
the grout, a lot of times itcomes down to improper
maintenance or maintenance thathasn't been done correct,
frequently or correctly. So thegrout again, it needs to be
sealed. That is something thatthose Sealants are generally

(47:04):
applied when it's firstinstalled. But they do need to
be reapplied. So that is that isa maintenance item that needs to
be done. Same thing. caulkingaround the shower. That's
something that is huge. Andcaulk, caulking does not last
forever at all. It breaks downwith time it breaks down with
sun exposure, it breaks downwith temperature and humidity

(47:24):
changes. So these are thingsthat do need to be kept up on
and maintained. And if you do agood job with that, you're going
to end up with a fairlywaterproof surface where now
we're only talking about surfaceissues. Whereas if those things
fall behind, and we end up withcracked caulking, where water is
able to seep down in now we'vegot a much bigger issue because

(47:47):
it's going to begin to permeateinto the building materials
beneath that.

Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Thank you for that. Solet's just talk for a few
minutes remaining about ifsomeone's building a new home,
or they're doing a majorrenovation to a home. I guess,
you know, you would hope thatthe people, the contractors

(48:15):
you're using to go through thatprocess, will know something
about indoor air quality, but alot of the time unfortunately,
they still don't. So what whatwould your suggestions be for
people like what kind ofspecialists? Can they engage to
help them in that process? Orwhat can they just be aware of
themselves to keep an eye outfor?

Yeah, so first and foremost, sort of the most
obvious side, I'm a hugeadvocate as much as you can be
on site, be present, and makesure that you won't necessarily,
depending on who you're workingwith, they might not always love
that. But if you're polite andfriendly, and bring doughnuts or
whatever, frequently, they'llgenerally be a little bit more

(49:04):
accommodating. But at the end ofthe day, it is your home. So you
want to make sure you're seeingthe different stages of it.
You're understanding how it'sgoing up. And you're asking a
lot of those questionsthroughout the process to try to
understand as much as you can.
So you can be your own advocateon the job site. And one of the
biggest issues we see with moldgrowth for new construction is

(49:25):
materials that are left on abuilding site that are exposed
to the elements. Sometimesthey're left on the ground. So
they'll bring in a wholetruckload of two by fours and
framing materials and they'lljust set it on the ground and
then it'll be left uncovered forweeks, if not months, while the

(49:45):
building process goes on. Andthen you have as you begin to
build you notice that there'smold growth on a lot of these
materials. And whenever we talkabout the building materials,
Our solid wood materials. Sothings like two by fours were
it's one solid piece of lumberthat's milled. It's definitely
more susceptible to mold growththan the older versions because

(50:08):
of the way that it's grown andharvested. Now, that's just not
as dense, it's a lot more porousthan older materials were. But
it's still way better than a lotof the manufactured building
materials. Things like MDFplywood, a lot of these molded
products are basically some formof wood shavings or sawdust

(50:32):
that's basically glued together,which makes an extremely porous
material where mold can gostraight through, these
generally are going to be muchmore sensitive to moisture, and
mold issues are going to appearon them much, much, much faster.
So it's really important to justbe diligent about how the

(50:52):
materials are being handledprior to and after they're being
installed. And working with acontractor that understands
those concerns and is going tobe it's going to actually honor
them and follow through with it.
I mean, I, I see all the timenew construction, we've got a

(51:13):
lot of it in this area wherehomes are left exposed to the
elements with no roof on formonths. And it is just getting
rain shower, after rain shower,things are completely saturated.
And at the end of the day,you're probably going to
experience some sort of issuefrom that. So whenever we talk

(51:34):
about different consultants,definitely making sure your
architect or whoever you'reworking with on that understands
what your needs and desires are.
And they can help work with youon some choices that are simply
better. Because there are thingsthat are better and worse for
keeping mold and moisture out.
Things like how much of anoverhang do you have on your

(51:56):
roof versus not, if you have alarger overhang, it's going to
do a much better job of keepingthe rain off of your siding,
keeping the rain out of theinside of the home. Whereas if
you have virtually no overhang,it's not going to do that your
roof should basically be a bigumbrella for the rest of the
home. And the smaller you makeit the worse of a job it's going
to dothings that we see a lot like

(52:18):
flat roofs, which is a stylechoice a lot more most modern
homes will go that route. Andit's they can be done well. But
it's a lot harder to do a flatroof, right, and to actually
execute on it to the point whereyou're not going to have water
issues. In particularly later,if you have DirecTV or one of

(52:39):
the satellite companies come andinstall a satellite on your roof
now, you've got a flat roof thathas perforations in it from them
installing that. And it's very,very easy for a problem to
begin. So just making surewhoever you're working with
understands those concerns andis able to work with you to help
prevent those from being issuesgoing forward. And there's, I

(53:04):
know from listening to some ofthe prior podcasts that you had
on as well, you're aware of thewide spectrum that you can go in
terms of indoor air qualityissues, and that in what you do
to build in a way that preventsthose everything from EMF
radiation, to what types ofproducts that you're using for

(53:25):
VOCs. And off gassing. There's,again a whole for each product
that you're choosing, there's aspectrum, and it's about
selecting the right ones foryour individual needs and your
individual concerns. And to putit bluntly, your budget, because
that definitely does factor inas well. And there's there's
some areas that you can spendmore money and get a lot more of

(53:47):
an air quality ROI than others.

Yeah. Great.
Thank you. And so for people whoare not lucky enough to live in
Pittsburgh, where you are, whatare your tips for how we can
find appropriate and skilledprofessionals to assist in
dealing with existing indoor airquality or indoor environmental

(54:17):
issues?

Yeah, so great question. First, I'd say we are
franchising so we are activelylooking to expand our footprint
but keeping it to the states fornow. So that we can can service
more more people in moredifferent areas. That being
said, whenever you're lookingfor an indoor air quality
contractor, there's a couplethings that I really recommend.

(54:41):
First one being make sure youcheck with your locality and
figure out okay, what are therequirements for somebody that's
doing this because above all,you do want to make sure that
they are legally able to bedoing the services that they're
offering. Because if they're notthat does not bode well for The
rest of the service as a whole.
So checking to make sure thatthey're properly licensed,

(55:03):
insured, and able to do whatthey're doing. After that, I
like to look at some of thenational and international third
party certifications. In theStates, I'm not sure what you
guys have in Australia. Butaround here we have the IICRC
ACAC. I, AQa are all independentorganizations that focus on

(55:27):
either indoor air qualityproblems or restoration. So
those can be some goodresources. But really, a lot of
it's going to come down toresearching the company
themselves. Once you've got itnarrowed down, you've got a few
options. Going through takingthe time look at reviews, ask
for references. And just informyourself as much as you can on

(55:48):
what the process should like,should look like so that you can
grill them and make sure thatthey know what they're doing.
And they really understand,especially if you're somebody
who has a history of toxic moldexposure and sensitive
sensitivities to mold or otherindoor air quality issues,
making sure they understandthat, and they really get what

(56:09):
you're going through. So it'snot just another okay, this is
just another project. And we'regoing to do things the exact
same way that we've done foreverybody else, but they
understand what the processshould look like and what your
individual needs are.

And yeah, having said that, people need to
understand what the processshould look like. You mentioned
before we started recording thatone of your passions is, you
know, education and gettinggetting the information out
there for people. So Iunderstand you have a number of
videos or you've gotinformation, I'm not sure what

(56:48):
format it's all in. But do youwant to just talk a bit about
that as well?

Yeah, so we try to keep a very active blog on
our website that has a varietyof issues. Generally, we have
our weekly team meeting and wego through with, okay, what
questions have we heard frompeople recently? Try to make
sure everybody brings five toeach meeting so that we can
figure out okay, what are wehearing? What do people want or
need to know? And then try toproduce resources on that. So on

(57:15):
our website, we've got blogposts available, we've got
videos that are also on YouTube,and then on our social medias
will generally share everythingas well. So Facebook, Twitter,
Instagram, all those

Okay, so and on all of those on socials is it
mold medics is what people wouldlook for.

If you search for mold, medics, you'll see our
our little logo, and that'll beus. There are there are a couple
others that may come up. Butgenerally, that's if you look
for that you'll see us we try tokeep everything branded pretty
consistently so that people areable to identify what's our
stuff and know it and know thatit's going to be decent,
reliable information.

And what is your website, Tim?

It's just MoldMedics.com.

Okay, and just for my Australian listeners,
just remembering I'd look, you'dprobably find it anyway. But we
usually spell mold with a U init. So M-O-U-L-D. But um, it's
M-O-L-D. So is there anythingelse that you would like to
share about your serviceofferings with people before we

(58:20):
finish up, Tim?

No, I mean, the biggest thing, again, an ounce
of prevention is worth a poundof cure. So identifying issues
quickly. And if you seesomething, investigate it,
figure out what's going on, andtry to get it resolved. Because
if you people far too often willsee a problem. And they'll
identify that it's an issue theyshould probably fix. But it's

(58:45):
not top of mind. It's notthey've got other things going
on in their life. So the Let,let it go on. And that just
gives it a lot more time tobecome a much bigger issue than
it needs to be. So if you seesomething, investigate it, and
begin resolving it quickly,rather than trying to kick the
can down the road and address itlater.

If you say something, do something.

Yep.
Absolutely.

Yeah. All right.
Great. Well, it's been a reallyinteresting conversation. I'm so
appreciative that I got to pickyour brain on all this stuff,
Tim, because I think it's soimportant for everybody. And you
know that these issues canreally affect people's health
and well being and and as yousaid, at some point during the
conversation, a lot of a lotmore doctors and health

(59:31):
professionals are becoming awareof it, but it's certainly
usually not the first thing thatthey'll think about when they're
trying to understand whysomebody is experiencing health
issues. So it's really good ifwe have that information
ourselves to be able to beproactive and preventative about
our health. So I reallyappreciate your time today. Tim,

(59:54):
thank you so much for coming on.

Absolutely.
Thank you so much for having meI think I think it went really
well and I really love what youguys are doing

Arwen Bardsley (01:00:05):
Thank you

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Tim Swackhammer - how to have a healthy home