The Debate You Wanted with Lisa Collier and Devin Patton

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Voting in local elections has a deeper impact for a lot of us vs the state and national elections. Join me as I sit down with County Commissioner candidates Devin Patton and Lisa Collier to understand their plans and perspectives. With Devin's expertise in ag-business and Lisa's experience as mayor and educator, we dive into the multifaceted issues of local food security and wildlife management that are critical to the community's well-being.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Food insecurity in Wallowa County is between 12 and
14%, meaning about one in eightpeople has insecurity about the
amount of food that they have.
Do either of you have a planfor the problem with mule deer
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(00:24):
to hunting for food these days?
These are stories of outdooradventure and expert advice from
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(02:02):
Okay, this is a show that I'vebeen looking forward to for a
long time even longer beforethis opportunity came up and
it's been talked about inpolitical circles before that.
The modern way that we interactwith political candidates is
pretty goofy.
Right, we're putting them up ona stage, there's lights,

(02:24):
there's questions that arecoming from a moderator, and
people get a specific amount oftime to talk about it, and
they're really looking for thesesound bites that they can take
out of context and put all oversocial media, and it's pretty
dishonest.
It's a dishonest representationof who people are.
So you two are running forCounty Commissioner in Wallowa

(02:46):
County.
You've both made it through theprimary and would like you to
introduce yourselves.
Let's start with Devin.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, my name is Devin Patton.
I'm a 34-year-old father offour.
Uh grew up east of joseph on acattle ranch and it was a great
childhood.
Grown up had, uh, lots ofcousins neighboring around.
Um, my mom's parents were justabout three miles down, just

(03:16):
just far enough that we couldride bikes down there.
It was downhill getting there.
It was a little bit hard ridingback home, uh, oftentimes got
got got grandma convinced togive us a ride.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
But um, yeah, there's a lot of pattens in wallowa
county there's not that manypounds.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
There's a lot of butterfields yeah and and that's
even an interesting thing forme, because my grandpa was the
last butterfield he was thebottleneck okay and not like the
lathrops where there was liketwo generations, where there was
nine or eleven kids in them.
Um, but my grandpa was the onlyson.
He had one sister, um ann hayes.

(03:52):
She passed away last summer anduh, but then he had three sons
and my uncle steve was killed ina truck accident in the, I
think, 1984, driving back fromback from Holland Hay down to
MNHA.
So he didn't have any kids, butmy Uncle Mark and my Uncle Dan
each had two sons and then eachof them have had at least two

(04:12):
sons and now they're all schoolage.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
So there's a pack of Butterfields and the funny thing
about them, they all live onTenderfoot Valley Road.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Right.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
But I went to the University of Idaho after I
graduated from high school in2008, got a bachelor of science
in agribusiness and, um, then Ichased my wife to northern
colorado because I graduated andfigured I could go anywhere and
do whatever I needed to do tobe able to be there, so went and

(04:44):
got a job in the ag sectorthere while she was working at
North Colorado Medical Center,which was actually working for
free, finishing her degree.
From there we went to Nebraska,was there for a couple of years
working as a commodity futuresand options broker, and then
moved back to Willow County totry and ranch with my dad broker

(05:06):
and then move back to willowcounty, try and ranch with my
dad.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
Commodities, futures and options regarding like
cattle and stuff like that rightright, right.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
So commodity a futures contract is a specific
um, for it's the price of acontract.
The contract is a specificquantity and quality.
So an easy one would be likewheat, it's a 5 000 bushel
contract of a specific grade andit has a deliverable time frame
.
And the way we use that is forhedging or or managing risk.

(05:33):
We can as a with a farmercustomer.
We can do it would be like asubstitute sale and that way if
the wheat market goes down itwould make money on the trade to
offset losses in the cash valueof the crop they're growing.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
Right.
So it's like guaranteeing theprice of something, as long as
the producer can guarantee thequantity and quality.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
Well, most people don't deliver them.
You end up just lifting thehedge.
So you make a short sale,whatever happens.
Market goes up, market goesdown.
You end up buying it back andthen selling your cash crop
locally.
So very, very few people areactually delivering against
those, but they are deliverable.
They do get delivered againstand that's what helps keep the

(06:19):
paper value of a commoditycontract with the actual cash
market.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
Gotcha Lisa.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
I'm Lisa Collier.
I am a mother of seven plus,because some of those kids are
now married and adults and allof that.
I guess if you're going to getmarried, you'd like to be an
adult, so that I don't have tosay they're young.
I am the mayor of Joseph.
I've been a teacher for areally long time.

(06:50):
I married my high schoolsweetheart.
We both graduated from JosephHigh School and I was a pain in
the butt kid.
No teacher really ever liked me.
Devin can ask his family A lotof them are teachers but fell in

(07:12):
love with education actuallysomewhere along the way.
Went to Eastern OregonUniversity to get my bachelor's
in health and communications,then went back to Eastern Oregon
University to get my master'sin teaching and then went on to
Northwest Nazarene to get almostmy administration degree for
public schools.
I was supposed to finish thatthis summer but I've had a

(07:33):
really busy summer, so lookingforward to wrapping that up in
the fall.
Just been raising kids andloving and serving the community
and love people, loveconnecting all of that.
Other things that I've done inthe past when we first got out

(07:53):
of high school I opened up achild care and then, spread out
throughout the years, was awaitress, did some restaurant
management, worked for theForest Service and Discovery or
Northwest, which is aninterpretive position out of the

(08:13):
Forest Service.
I've done a lot of differentthings and just mostly
surrounding service.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, so yeah, cool mostly surrounding service.
Yeah, so yeah Cool being a badstudent, uh, which I am also a
member of that club.
I think I've since apologizedto every teacher that I ever had
.
Yeah, yeah.
Certainly you know, throughsecondary education.
Um, did that give you morecompassion or understanding for

(08:43):
for kids that maybe weren'tsuited for that standard school
environment?

Speaker 3 (08:48):
Definitely, and I think that that has really
served me well.
Um, being a teacher and being um, my husband and I have done a
lot of work with at-risk youthsand foster kids and um, not that
I was ever a foster kid, but Ithink I would put myself in the
at-risk youth category fordifferent reasons.
But I think that that gives youthat eye and that heart for

(09:13):
picking them out and feelingmore compassionate about not
letting them slip through thecracks and then, as at-risk and
trauma kids grow up, they becomeat-risk and trauma adults
sometimes and so just trying tojust being able to recognize
their challenges and theirbarriers and how to help and

(09:37):
where to try to step in, and itjust gives you just more
understanding and compassion forthe way that the others work, I
think.
But yeah, I was not a goodstudent.
I think that without thethreshold of staying eligible in
sports, I probably would nothave stayed in school.

(09:58):
But super thankful too, becauseI think going through it
several benefits I am in contactwith many of my teachers that
I've had and administrators, andI love them, and just building
that, those relationships andthose contacts, and then also

(10:19):
just looking out for the futureof kids, all kids and all people
.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah .
The, the format of school, theway it is today and the way it
was, you know, when I wentthrough it it's it's just not
for everybody, and there's somereally smart kids who are
struggling and might feel likethey're stupid because they're
not doing as well, and uh, andthat's just not the case.

(10:44):
It's just not the case.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
Yeah, I totally agree , and I think also COVID was bad
for all sorts of reasons wedon't need to talk about, but
good in the way that it reallydid force a reform on education.
So I think actually our schoolsare better for having lived
through COVID it.
It created a morph, so to speak,in the way we reach kids and

(11:11):
the way we serve kids and andwe've held on to a lot of that
post COVID of we still can servethem in so many ways.
We don't have to go back to thesit in your seat and look me in
the eyes.
Those are good skills but notevery kid can do that.
I mean, it sounds super basic.
Not every kid can do that.

(11:31):
So I am happy that we I thinkwe're better schools and a
better educational systembecause of COVID.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah Well, that's great, we'll take it.
We'll take any win we can get.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Okay, first, question , just real, generally what is a
county commissioner, how taskedwith administering county
governance over the handful ofdepartments Like I mean the road
department, the weed department, different things and provide

(12:20):
some oversight to those andmanaging a budget?
Wallowa County has threedifferent counties of different
sizes.
Obviously.
I think I've heard as many asseven in some.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, lisa.
What would you add to that?

Speaker 3 (12:37):
I would agree with everything that Devin said, but
I would add to speaking for thecitizens, you're elected to
handle business for the citizens.
Yes, you are supervising andsupporting all of these amazing
employees in all of thesedifferent departments, managing

(13:01):
the budget, and I also thinkbeing connected to the people is
a big thing, and it's somethingthat I'm definitely passionate
about.
I think that you need to beintegrated into the community so
you can represent the peopleand you know what they say, need

(13:22):
, want.
What discussions are theyhaving?
What are their hardships?
What are?
Where is their family?
What are their names?
What is their dog's name?
What do they do for a living?
You know, I just think, um, somuch of that comes into play in
in every, I think every way, um,and and knowing your people um
only benefits you.

(13:42):
It's it makes you approachable.
They know your face, they knowyour name, they know your phone
number.
If they need help, they'regoing to reach out.
You're not foreign.
So I really believe in thoserelationships, the connections,
and that's going to help you doall the other things.
Another thing that's not sointeresting, but very important

(14:03):
or not so fun it's not sointeresting, but very important
or not so fun, the people partis fun, but you're in charge of
essentially managing,maintaining, changing.
If that's the directionordinances, policies, procedures
we're really bound by those andwe really need to be out of all
.
Equality and fairness.

(14:24):
I mean, everybody goes throughthe same gate and I really
believe in that.
But are those policiessomething we want to stick to,
or are they 60 years old andthat's not the way we want to do
things anymore?
And some of that is what we'regoing through in the city of
Joseph of.
There are a lot of outdatedordinances and a lot of outdated

(14:47):
policies and they makereference to positions we no
longer have, things in societywe no longer do.
And so just updating and makingsure that you feel good about
those policies, procedures,ordinances, all of those rules

(15:08):
that we hold people to, yeah.
And so much more, because I'mnot a county commissioner and so
, do I know everything they do?
No, I don't.
But in a nutshell, that's myunderstanding of it.
Yeah, and so much more.
I also think that you, um, youyou are are responsible for your

(15:28):
relationships surrounding theCounty.
I mean, we've got, we've got umneighboring counties that we uh
, collaborate with a lot.
And then also there's the everdaunting, you know, for people.
Salem, you know, am I afraid toget in the car and go drive to
Salem and have a conversationfirst thing in the morning?
No, you know, I can do that now.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Um, so yeah, that's a part of it too.

Speaker 3 (15:52):
Yeah, You've, you've, you've got to get to Salem,
You've got to get to DC and youknow a lot of times you know if
you're fighting for somethingthat will allow county cares
about, it's going to besomething that's going to get
overridden at the state level insalem so you just have to skip
that step and go straight to dcand then override the state and

(16:13):
they do have this very fabulouspolicy in salem, and I I'm not
going to try to verbatim itbecause I I would get it wrong
but if you, if you drive over somany miles to see them, they
will see you.
If you're within the closeboundary of the miles, you have
to make an appointment, and so Ithink that if we're willing to

(16:33):
go there and we're far enoughaway, they're going to hear what
we have to say, and I thinkthat's important too right,
because typically you're goingto have between 60 and 120
seconds to speak and you'regoing to have 12 or 14 hours of
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Devin, what were you going tosay?

Speaker 2 (18:14):
Well, I just I wanted to add in with with that, with
Salem and DC, it's being anadvocate for the county and, and
I actually think Joe Dawson, heactually used the word lobbyist
when I was visiting with himabout this and in the past of
course he did that.
Of course Joe would.
But yeah, being willing toactively engage with both sides

(18:39):
friendly and, let's say, opposedCongress people, state reps,
senators, the governor and beingactive and engaged and being
able to advocate for the needsof the county as a whole.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
How Joe has managed to avoid this podcast over the
last five years is kind ofamazing, and I think it's that
he and I have like mutualsympathy for how busy our lives
are.
But I'm putting him on noticeright now the fuse is burning
short Joe Dawson, I love Dawson.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Some of my favorite phone conversations are when I'm
just driving down the road andI got to call Joe about
something.
And I end up talking about allthis other stuff, and I'm, you
know, having earbuds on aBluetooth headset while I'm
working.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
I see him at the hardware store when neither of
us is in a good place, becausewe're both there to get
something that is broken.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
Can I add on to that?
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
We're on question one .

Speaker 3 (19:36):
Are we on question one or two?

Speaker 1 (19:38):
We're not even on question one yet, but I do want
to add something to what yousaid, lisa.
There's a bunch of leadershiptraits and principles in the
Marine Corps that kind of getcarved into your soul while
you're there, and one of themthat is you know, a pretty
concise way of what I feel likeyou were describing is know your

(19:58):
Marines and look out for theirwelfare Such a hugely important
quality in leaders.
It's like you can't take careof people unless you know what's
going on in their lives andfortunately, and sometimes very
unfortunately, in Willow Countywe tend to know we tend to know

(20:19):
but it does.
It does take some effort and ittakes further effort to get to
the bottom of it.
So go on with what you weregoing to say and then we'll
we'll move on to the next.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
I was just going to add to what Devin and I were
talking about, about Salem.
I wanted to add, though you canjust drive there, and that is a
, that is a freedom or astrategy that you have.
I do believe that we have tocultivate those relationships
too first.
I mean, that's proactive,that's preemptive.

(20:49):
We're going to need thosepeople.
We have to build a relationship.
I don't want the first timethey meet me to be when I am
fighting the good fight forWallowa County and I just show
up.
I want to cultivate thoserelationships first, so they
know who I am, and so I justthink that's a big.
Relationships is huge for allthe way down to an individual

(21:13):
and all the way up to WashingtonDC.
Building those relationships isa big part of it.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree, yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
High five.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
You guys are doing great.
Okay, on the way up here to thestudio, you drove on a dirt
road and at times this dirt roadthroughout the year is
impassable by, say, a sedan orsomething like that.
Wallowa County has 700 miles ofroad.

(21:45):
300 are paved and 400 are rockor dirt.
What is your vision fortransportation in Wallowa County
, starting with Lisa?

Speaker 3 (21:54):
Sure, it's very important and I've been on a lot
of the roads that are what Iwould say just dangerous, you
know, any time of yearDefinitely paying attention to
the safety of the roads, to thesafety of the roads, I said at

(22:21):
our last forum and Susan wasthere and she's the road guru
for sure but I would like to seea priority list of roads and I
want to know why they're in thepriority, how much maintenance
they get, who goes out there,how regular that is.
That's stuff I need to learn.
But I definitely think thereneeds to be strategy and
resources and time, and I thinkthere is.

(22:44):
We have a whole road departmentmaking sure that it's funded
correctly.
I know they have some newequipment and so that's a big
financial outlay.
That already happened, sothat's good news.
We shouldn't be burdened withthat cost for a while.
But just the upkeep of evenvehicles and equipment.

(23:05):
The more proactive you can beand treat your stuff well, the
better it's going to lastPouring knowledge and support
into your people.
But I just think going out and Iwas on a lot of those roads
when I worked for the ForestService actually going out and
seeing the roads and knowingwhere they are and knowing what

(23:27):
kind of status they're in isimportant, and I have a lot to
learn in that in that department, because I don't know all the
things, but definitely, whateverseason it's, in making sure
that they're passable and safe.
And then I think, when they'renot, or if they're not

(23:48):
communicating out what kind ofvehicle is needed, I think
people, sometimes people goexploring or they're going to go
mushroom hunting or they'regoing to go try to hike
somewhere and they don't havethe knowledge that that wouldn't
be a safe idea for the vehiclethat they're in.
And so I think, communicatingabout the roads too, but the

(24:09):
overall quality, just even forthe people who live there on
those roads one of the ones, andI mentioned it at the forum and
it just in a funny way, but notso funny because, like leap
lane, I know there are studentsout there on leap lane that
drive to school every daythroughout the year and just
making sure that that they'resafe is is important yeah, uh, I

(24:34):
used to carry skis andsnowshoes in high school in my
rig because a lot of the timesI'd be coming up the hill and
it's like nope, not happening.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
And you know it's a.
It's a small road department,it's a big county.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
So for sure.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
Devin.
What's your vision fortransportation in Wallowa County
?

Speaker 2 (25:00):
improvement.
I do want to say I also had tobe a little bit wary.
Where I grew up was at the endof about a mile and a half
stretch of gravel road, most ofit county.
In the last about half a milewas private but there was
definitely some windstorms withthe snow drifts coming over,
where the road department didn'thave anything to do with that
but it was, you know, makingsure we could uh park down at

(25:22):
don huff's house and ride home.
Have dad pick us up in a tractoror something yeah or that there
was times I remember from uh2007 basketball game where we
just stayed in town like we werein town sure.
It was drifted in.
There was no way we were makingit home.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yeah, and anyway.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, at that forum the county roads got brought up
and I agree with Lisa about theprioritization of the.
Let's just focus on the, thegravel roads, for for a moment,

(26:00):
and the, the main vein roads.
Like you got crow creek, you gotzoom while you got leap sure
whatever the others are thoseare some examples yeah and yes
yes, and I think that one of theissues that we're seeing is

(26:20):
that the roads need to bemaintained more than they are,
partly because of the waythey're being maintained, and an
example of that is where theblade operators end up leaving
when they're done blading theroad.
They leave it too flat.
As a result, water will sit onit and then you end up getting

(26:40):
potholes really quickly insteadof being able to maintain
something of a dome so that acrown so that the water sheds
off.
If you maintain the road well,it won't need to be maintained
as often, so that's fewer mileson the equipment.
Be maintained as often, sothat's fewer miles on the

(27:01):
equipment.
Trying to find a way to properlyincentivize the county
department employees in that way, I think, will be critical, but
also, to a degree that's moreof the responsibility of the
roadmaster, and I think there'sbeen a little bit too much
micromanaging of the roadmastersthat we've had in the past the
one that we had up until lastyear, I think he quit.

(27:24):
It sounded like that was a bigreason why he quit and I know
quite a few people that werereally happy with him.
I know my uncle gave an examplewhere, when he called about
their road over off of LibertyRoad on the south side of the
highway that he called and theguy actually came out, tansey,

(27:46):
and he came out and was like,yeah, I agree, this road is a
problem and I've got 700 milesof this.
So it was at least communicatingand understanding.
And we lost that guy.
And I think, as a commissioner,one of the important things to
do and I'm going to crib alittle bit from uh military
leadership.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
Jocko willink um saying oh, we're talking about
seals now.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
Yeah, we got grief a little bit all right, um, just I
.
I really enjoy um hisleadership messaging, but a lot
of it is.
A good leader communicates thecommander's intent and then lets
the people do the job.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
Instead of saying here's exactly what I want you
to do.
All of these things, yeah, agood roadmaster and properly
incentivize them and say a lotof this, you.
It's up to you to figure outthe best way to do it, and we're
here to support and do the bestwe can to provide the resources
, whether it's going out andhunting up some more grants or

(28:47):
just making sure that you gotwhat you need to do the job and
not getting in the middle of itand micromanaging.
And here's some guidance.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
Perhaps here's an idea, but it's your department
Go for it, yeah, and that thatis definitely the way leadership
is taught, and and my, mypreferred form of of leadership,
especially with commander'sintent, is like you tell
somebody what needs to be done,when it needs to be done and why
it needs to be done, the whybeing very, very important.

(29:18):
If you tell somebody how to dosomething, you'll usually get
exactly what you asked for andnothing more, and there might be
a much more efficient way orimaginative or creative way that
you would not have come up withyourself.
The backside reality of that isyou have to trust everyone and
inspect everything, so you haveto inspect what you expect, and

(29:40):
that that follow through isimportant for everybody involved
, right, um, and it can be veryuncomfortable, but it's also
really positive, um, moving onto the next one, with a
population of 7,000 people, wehouse the largest wilderness in
the state of Oregon the EagleCap Wilderness.
The Wallowa Lake State Parkalone hosts over 270,000 people

(30:04):
per year.
Should we receive outsidefunding to support public safety
and road maintenance for thesevisitors to our county?
Let's start with Devin countystart with devon.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
So outside funding meaning state or federal
government funding for visitorsto a federal wilderness area.
Is that just to clarify thequestion?

Speaker 1 (30:26):
well, we have a?
Um, we have a federalwilderness area, we have a state
park?
Um, we have a lot of outsidetraffic that's coming in and
they aren't necessarilycontributing to the road
maintenance, contributing to thecounty in a financial way that

(30:46):
the county budget actually getsto realize and then utilize.
So do you think that we shouldreceive outside funding for that
, or it be um that this is, thisis public, and if they have
access to the wilderness andaccess to the, to the park and
access to the county, that theyshould be able to do it?

Speaker 2 (31:06):
I I I'm certainly open to the idea that there
should be a way to capitalizethose visitors in ways to help
support the infrastructure morethan just they buy gas and the
gas tax goes to the state andthen we got to try and claw it
back.
Um, I'm not going to sit hereand say that I've got some
solutions or real concrete ideas.

(31:28):
Besides, maybe something of a Idon't know if you can do like a
local, seasonal, local salestax over the summertime that's
just implemented here.
Actually, I was visiting withsomebody after the housing
meeting in Joseph last nightthat was saying I believe Coos
Bay has something like that,which I thought that was kind of

(31:48):
an interesting idea that Ihadn't heard of, which would be
able to capitalize on thevisitors as they are here
spending their money.
That it's here, it's kept local.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Like a non-resident toll booth or something
something I'm sure there's allkinds of legalities around that.
I'm not a lawyer.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, the hard, the hard part about saying you know
there should be funding providedfrom both the federal
government and the state forthat reason is say you go for it
, you make that case, you fightfor it, you get form of a grant
or whatever, and then one yearthey say nope, not this year.
Well, you start to rely on thatand it can just be pulled just

(32:26):
as easily.
So trying to come up withsomething that's more under the
local control, the purview ofthe county to manage the funding
, I think is a better solutionthan just saying to the state or
to the feds hey, you owe usmoney for this reason yeah, lisa

(32:46):
, what you got um, well, I thinka lot of different things, and
then I'm going to throw out thecaveat I always need to learn
more, and so I think that's withall of you, probably all of
these questions.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
I I always need to learn more, and so I think
that's with all of the probablyall of these questions I always
need to learn more.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
Is it fair to say you , I like to say I reserve the
right to make wise changes to myopinion, our mo?

Speaker 3 (33:13):
um in joseph um, the influx of visitors way outweighs
the residents and they're onour roads, sidewalks, garbage,
all all there are.
There are side effects from somany visitors and our tax base
can't support um.
So it's the same.

(33:35):
Up at the lake, whether they'reum, enjoying our, our state
park, our wilderness area, ourtram, our restaurants, are all
of it.
We don't get their tax base, umkind of um.
We do get some benefits and areeligible for some money from the

(33:58):
state park and I think they'rereally good community partners.
I think also the same thingabout the US Forest Service.
There are some benefits there,there's some collaboration.
I'm not quite sure aboutfunding.
I'm just not as familiar withthat piece, unless they're
backpacking up into thewilderness, which actually are

(34:20):
very few of them.
I mean, we have a lot of peopleup in the wilderness but most
people are staying here locallyand then in that way we get some
hotel and motel tax money tothen reintegrate back into our
community.
So we are getting some moneyfrom them to help with different

(34:41):
things.
Is that as much money as weneed for our water and our sewer
systems and all of that?
Probably not, but they're notreally getting off scot-free
either.
So I mean I think it's abalance.
State Parks also are greatpartners in the way that we are

(35:06):
eligible for funding.
I mean the State Park grant iseither 100% or a big lion's
share of the sports complex downin Enterprise, and they did
some work on the bridge at theTam Calix grounds.
They have sponsored and helpedwith funding in the city of
Joseph.
So we're getting money back forthings for locals to enjoy as

(35:29):
well as visitors, and thathotel-motel tax money does go
for some really great things.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
The transient lodging tax.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
Yeah, yeah so, and that's.
The county gets a slice of that, and so does each city.
Um, so we are getting somemoney back.
As far, does it go for roads?
I don't think so, you know sosure is it going towards the
things that you spoke of?
I don't know, I don't think so,but there is a benefit.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
There's money coming Gotcha.
Okay, Hunting is very importantto me.
It's very important to a lot ofpeople in Wallowa County and
even to those who don't hunthere.
They're very interested in ournatural resources and in our
wildlife and the health of ourwildlife.
Currently our mule deerpopulation is lower than it has

(36:26):
been since the early 1900s.
Food insecurity in WallowaCounty is between 12 and 14
percent, meaning about one ineight people has insecurity
about the amount of food thatthey have.
Do either of you have a planfor the problem with mule deer

(36:47):
decline and sort of the tediousnature that we have with access
to hunting for food these days?

Speaker 2 (37:02):
I'll start yeah, you didn't assign somebody, but I'll
go ahead, I think.
I think I'm first the lastquestion.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
You're good, that's good um, I'll be brave, I would
challenge your numbers to saythat our food insecurity is
about 24 countywide, so it'smuch higher than anybody
realizes.
Um, the yeah, the families thatare food insecure in this
county.
It's staggering.
Um, hunting, I mean divisivetopic, but um, looking for your

(37:35):
input too, because you're theprofessional in this way more
than me.
But I think that the decline inmule, deer and elk numbers also
has to do with the wolves and Ihave to be very careful with
that subject.
But that's it's my opinion,based off of a bunch of research

(38:01):
that I have done in the lastyear and I know that doesn't
sound like very long.
But in pursuit of this new job,I've just tried to immerse
myself in it and I've learned alot.
I went to the to immerse myselfin it and I've learned a lot.
I went to the Wolfkillconfirmation class that was in

(38:21):
Umatilla County in January andseveral others like that.
I attend the NRAC meeting oncea month.
That was actually just thismorning.
There's not an NRAC meetingthat goes by that this is not a
subject.
I think two months ago.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
What's NRAC for those that don't?

Speaker 3 (38:41):
know the Natural Resource.
I'm not sure what the A standsfor.
Committee.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Advisory, advisory.
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (38:52):
Advisory, john Williams, who's really
knowledgeable about the wolvesand the wildlife movement and
decline.
He pointed out that about howmany wolves we have in the
county and that each year, anadult wolf will consume 22 elk.

(39:16):
That's staggering, that's a lot.
So it ended up being and Idon't want to get the numbers
wrong and misquote John, but itends up being like 1200 elk a
year then.
So I think that we can't ignorethe fact that there's decline
in numbers due to that, and so Ithink that a healthy

(39:39):
relationship with ODF&W isimportant.
I actually had a one-on-onemeeting with the new director of
ODF&W last month.
I think that some excitingthings are coming our way.
I think that, as a whole, we'reall hoping for and I think that
she's hoping for to a moreproactive approach.

(40:03):
Willow County is on a veryreactive approach and I attended
those town halls with the LostDean community over all of those
, those devastating losses thereand I saw you there, james, and
um.
People are um this is notexactly what you asked, but

(40:26):
people are um it, they'redevastated, they're um some.
Some ranchers have lost, youknow, 12 livestock and it's just
, it's, it's staggering.
So I do think that that's tiedto hunting.
Hunting is also reallyimportant to my family too.
We go out and hunt every year.
My son planned a wedding, uh,for hunting season opening

(40:51):
weekend, and we're just notreally happy about that.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
But we're gonna let him get married.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
My cousin robert butterfield did that which, if
you know that's a shocking thing.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
I know that just means they don't want people to
come like if something will becheaper for us, yeah if somebody
has a september, octobernovember wedding season like I,
I get it.
Um, you know best.
I'll send an Amazon gift cardor something, but I'm going to
be there.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
Well, and then the other issue with the wildlife on
the move is, and then this isgetting like way out into the
weeds, I think.
But just something that's on mymind as far as hunting and then
, and then wildlife numbers andall of that they're being pushed
away from where, like, the goodfeed is and so like then that,

(41:42):
then that affects the game andyou know all of it.
So I mean it's an issue that Idon't have all the answers for,
but I'm definitely in theconversations trying to find
solutions.
Uh, want to find the solutions.
I don't have a solid, a solidanswer.
The whole thing was about foodinsecurity.

(42:03):
I think we can do a lot of workin the community surrounding
food and access to food and wecan remove stigmas of what
stereotypes of what we thinkpeople look like that need food,
because we're wrong.
You know.
I mean there are a lot, of, alot of families that I clearly

(42:23):
I'm not going to say on thepodcast, but that you'd be
shocked that they have troublefinding food or that food is
expensive and you know we allcan relate to.
We can go to the grocery storeand what used to cost $100 was a
arm load bags so heavy that youbring in from the car and they
cut your circulation off yourarms, to now three bags two bags

(42:46):
, you know so it's, it's, uh,it's also a it's an economics
issue yeah, yeah, devon

Speaker 2 (42:54):
so.
So if we want to talk aboutwolves, we can talk about wolves
.
You specifically mentioned muledeer.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
We're going to talk about wolves a little bit more
later.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yeah, the mule deer problem Is primarily mountain
lions and that's all been downfrom the 1994 Ban.
I don't know what the ballotmeasure was, but when the lovely
people of Oregon Decided thatwe weren't going to be able to
use hounds to hunt lions becausethat's an unfair advantage.
But that is, it's a managementtool and the thing that it

(43:28):
allows is for the houndsmen.
And what people don't realizeis that you go to Montana, you
go to Idaho which I'm not goingto claim that I've done this, I
just have spent, uh, quite a bitof time I, I grew up hunting.
This is this is an area withwhich I have passion.
I, unfortunately, with my youngfamily and all the work um that
I've been going doing I, Irealized I enjoy hunting so much

(43:52):
that I don't want to do itrushed.
And I've had not very manyyears where I felt like I could
go hunting and not have it be.
And I've had not very manyyears where I felt like I could
go hunting and not have it berushed.
I would rather not go because Ienjoy it that much that I don't
like rushing.
I I want to enjoy the wholeprocess and experience.
But the thing that houndsmen inplaces like montana, idaho and

(44:16):
wyoming, I believe, is they wantlions.
They're not out to get rid ofthem all, they want lions to go
chase.
And just because they treesomething doesn't mean they're
going to knock it out of thetree.
They're going.
We're looking for a big tom, ormaybe they're doing population
control and they're specificallyaiming for females and leaving
that old tom, as long as he'snot causing livestock problems

(44:38):
or something, because they'llmaintain the social order on the
mountain.
But the population hasdefinitely gotten out of control
and a lion will eat a deer aweek, so each one around.
I think the population explodedfrom what like 1,500 to well
over 5,000 in the state.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, over 6,000 now.
Over 6,000 now well over 5 000in the state, yeah, over 6 000,
now over 6 000 now and uh oregonputs out over 70 000 mountain
lion tags a year, which, uh, thehunters end up getting around
300.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Yeah, it's and the season's?
What?
11 months long it's all yearit's all, it's not.
They don't even have a timethat it's out.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
Yeah it's all year um two tags per person resident
Resident and non-resident tagsare $16.50.
The success rate of mountainlion in Oregon is the lowest
success rate of any hunt inAmerica.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
I've never seen one, yeah, in the wild, and I can
just about guarantee they'veseen me.
Which kind of is something thatmakes me stop and think?

Speaker 1 (45:43):
So that I think okay, being ever the advocate.
So if we're identifying that asas the problem, then what is
your solution as a countycommissioner?

Speaker 2 (45:47):
unfortunately, the solution has to be done at the
state level.
But being an advocate on uh onbehalf of, I guess, conservation
of a species, if we're pickingand choosing, the hard part
about picking a predator over aprey animal is the predator
already has the advantage, andwith the endangered species that

(46:08):
are just trying to conserve orbe more protectionist to one
species over another, it justdoesn't work that well.
So advocating for and trying topush to get that repealed and
trying to uh help balance thewhole ecosystem where we

(46:28):
recognize that we as humans area part of it and that's
something that I think a lot ofpeople that prioritize
conservation and protection ofthe ecosystem is they leave
humans out of it.
Humans have always been a partof the ecosystem and we are the
apex predator.
And having more tools to beable to manage the predator

(46:53):
problem so that the for lack ofa better term prey species, the
other game animals, the deer,the elk, whether it's whitetail,
mule, deer, whatever can uhhave a better chance of
population success.
Now, tying that back into foodinsecurity that you brought up,
uh, I know.
Right now to the wolf issue uh,one of the problems that we're

(47:17):
having with wolves is they'reactually out on the zumal
prairie and everywhere andpushing, resulting in those elk
herds, particularly here in thefall when things start to dry up
, to come into the valley andthere's a lot of damage being
done in alfalfa fields, timothyfields, oat fields, everything,
peas, uh, nightly and theyshifted from it being from each

(47:44):
landowner having damage tags toand basically an
over-the-counter damage cow, elktag that anybody can buy and
hunt from here at the end ofaugust all the way through the
end of the year first of 31st,1st of August 1st of August.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
Yep, and I don't know when our season closes, if it's
the end of November or the endof December.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
But you could then go right over to Hermiston and go
all the way through March.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
All the way through the end of March.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
So I think there's definitely some room to crib
onto stuff they've done in theMidwest with whitetail
population, where they haveorganizations like Hunters
Feeding the Hungry, where you'vegot people that just like to go
hunt and don't necessarily needall the meat for themselves and
certainly don't want it to goto waste, but actually having a
food bank or something.
Yeah, and I think that there issome room to do some stuff like
that, particularly with thosedamaged cow elk hunts, to do
some stuff like that,particularly with those damaged

(48:40):
cow elk hunts.
And ultimately, I think itwould be good with back to
predator management, gettingmore active on the wolf side,
trying to take the pressure offof those elk herds that, in the
fall particularly, is pushingthem into the valley.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
I completely agree with you.
I think for these surplus elkpopulations that are causing
crop damage it would bewonderful to have a program and
infrastructure that allowedhunters to move that into a food
bank system so that we coulduse hunting to reduce that crop
damage and help out folks thatneed food.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
I want to tack something else on.
This isn't with wildlife, butwith as many cow herds as we
have around here, finding, uh, abetter way for ranchers who
have a down cow cow breaks herleg or you know, two bulls start

(49:42):
fighting and one of a thirdbull comes up and breaks one of
them right in the back, likebreaks a femur or something like
stuff happens and um, the hardpart is that in the summertime,
with the grass-finished beefmarket around here being so hot
for locker beef, when you'reselling beef by the half of the

(50:02):
whole animal, the custom cutshops like Valley Meats down in
Wallowa or all the way over, Imean everywhere through the
grass season, they're booked up,they're booked up.
I mean if I was to call rightnow and say, hey, I have a beef
that I'd like to just have havecut and wrapped, they'd say,
well, we could maybe get you inin february yeah, it's.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
It's extremely difficult for us as a business
as well.
You know we're, we're hauling,you know, over four hours, one
way to get to for usda to get toa facility for us and we have
to book that a year in advance.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
So I think that maybe there's some room to streamline
and make the process easier forsomebody to donate a downed
animal that would otherwise bewasted if you can't get them cut
.
I mean two years ago.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
And we can donate wild game to the food bank right
now.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
We cannot, we can, we can, okay yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
So that's legal.
So that's not USDA.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
That's not.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
That's butchered on a tailgate.
But you start running intodifficulties when it's domestic
livestock, which is problematic.
And I know that's been workedon a little bit.
I just don't know all thedetails.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
And it's also hook space and I don't know if
there's some way to explore um aincentivizing the, the custom
cut shops that aren't usdainspected anyway but still
having them um, not butchered ona tailgate but actually cut and
wrapped and frozen and goodit's not for resale um, but when
they just don't have thecapacity, that doesn't really
work that well anyway sometimes.
Sometimes you can make it work.
I know a couple of years ago mymom called me on a sunday

(51:47):
afternoon.
They were loading coal, a truckfull of coal, cows and bulls,
and while they were sorting andfiguring stuff out, a bull
basically ran the length of bytwo others and they didn't think
anything of it until about 40minutes later he just went down
and kind of stopped breathing,and so it was about the third

(52:08):
week of July and 90 degrees on aSunday and my mom called me and
said can you come help?
And so I grabbed David Batesand some knives and we went out
there because they still had toload a truck and they've got.
So we just showed up to get ithung and they'd already called
and silvera was was cool and he,he took that and it was just,
it was just ground and we wereable to.

(52:29):
I think they gave a lot of itaway good, um, but that we were
able to salvage that animal.
But that's sort of a a kind ofa long shot, unless it happens
in the winter time wheneverybody's slow, but but
finding a way to get more ofthat into food banks and and
having you know an an easierprocess where they can say, take

(52:52):
a tax write-off on thatdonation, yeah, and maybe
there's a tax write-off for thecutter Sure, for doing the
grinding and everything andtrying to make that an easier,
yes, yeah, yeah, you get whatyou incentivize.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Mm-hmm, okay, next question.
You ready for another question?
Sure, cool, you're going to beup first, evan.
Oftentimes, commissioners workclosely with state lawmakers.
If you could advocate for onelegislative change in the state
of oregon, what would it be?

Speaker 2 (53:27):
one legislative change in the state of oregon.
Anything that I come up with isgoing to be keeping more local
control over our problems.
I know it's a really easy thingto say well, if we push that
responsibility off to the state,then it's a little bit simpler.

(53:47):
Then we just got to go ask themfor the money to take care of
it.
But I'm much more of anadvocate of problems solutions
that finding solutions that areclosest to the source of the
problem is is a better solution.
I mean it's better in the longrun.
It's like the way we wouldsolve something here is

(54:08):
different than the way they'dsolve something in salem, and
that's that's different thanwhat way we'd solve something in
dc if they were going to do ablanket policy for the whole
country or salem being a blanketpolicy for the whole state.
That wouldn't really work forus here because we are a unique
demographic compared to theaverage.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
So whether it's so there's an example of that
that's going to come up in thislegislative session, which is
that there's going to be up inthis legislative session, which
is that there's going to be abill that recommends that
counties individually vote onwhether they can use hounds to
pursue mountain lions, somethingthat you talked about earlier.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
So that would be an example of something where you
would get local control oversomething, but it's a statewide
legislative action yes, thatthat would be a good example and
that if, if the idea that thestate won't um reverse that 94
ban as a whole, but that that'san option, is going county by
county, I think that's a greatoption and I I would advocate

(55:10):
for that.
Um, yeah, it's just tough thethe way that the system is set
up to, where all of our propertytaxes, all of our everything
leaves and goes to salem, andthen we got to go try and get it
back to be able to fund stuffif I could find a way to have,

(55:30):
like a local collection ofproperty taxes or for school
levy weeds, whatever, where itdoesn't have to go get sorted
through, sifted through, skimmedin every which way from all the
different bureaucracies towhere we can.
It can be more effective onstuff like that.
Kept more local gotcha.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
so I want to be less beholden to outside influences.
I like local control too, lisa,same question.

Speaker 3 (56:06):
I like local control too.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Let me restate it for you Sure, oftentimes
commissioners work closely withstate lawmakers.
If you could advocate for onelegislative change in the state
of Oregon, what would it be?

Speaker 3 (56:22):
There are so many things that pop into my head,
but just one um.
Right now I deal with a lot ofpoverty-level people and there
are so many examples in that.

(56:45):
Whether we're talking aboutfood or access to things, the
poverty level federal guidelinescan help people get resources
that just truly cannot.
They can't afford rent or theycan't in the way of people

(57:07):
getting help, and we can go intoa whole situation about

(57:31):
government handouts and all ofthat, and that's not what I am
here to advocate for or say.
That's not what I'm here toadvocate for or say.

(57:58):
But I've seen where people aredenied housing or they and a
federal issue because I thinkthe Oregon guidelines, they
don't match up or make sensewith the federal guidelines and
I just have seen people fallinto this kind of no man's land
where they don't make enoughmoney to have A but they don't
qualify for B, and so it's.

(58:18):
There's this very um, vulnerable, at risk population of our
people that are not getting helpand things are very, very hard
for them that they're they'renot matching up correctly with
the, with the guidelines, andthat could be like access to
health care and access to I meana lot of things that that

(58:43):
others below that line, even ifthey make ten dollars more.
You know it, it aces them out.
And so I just think, makingsure that we're doing the best
that we can do and again it's abalance because it's tax dollars
and it's this whole otherbigger issue and discussion but
I would like to dive into makingsure that our vulnerable

(59:08):
population and again that couldbe senior citizens on a fixed
income, or I mean a lot ofpeople fall into this very
vulnerable space where I don'tfeel like they're getting what
they need.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
I want to point out, I guess a perspective that I
have, where you're drawing thedistinction between the state
and federal guidelines regardingthe poverty level and what you
qualify for and what you don't,is all of that's only as
accurate and as good as theperson tasked over it at the

(59:42):
state or the federal level, andthat, to me, it's.
This isn't really a a countything, but a general philosophy
of the more centralized andbureaucratic the process is to
solve any kind of a problem, thethe worse it is, and I I'm I'm

(01:00:07):
a market guy, and I think agreat example of this is is in
the old soviet union, where theyhad, you know, the czar of
deciding what everything shouldbe priced as, and every day they
had to make the czar ofdeciding what everything should
be priced as, and every day theyhad to make pricing decisions
instead of letting a marketplaceof bids and offers and and
trying to uh curb the supply anddemand of something which, if

(01:00:27):
we're talking about the supplyand demand of services towards
people around hovering aroundthe poverty line, uh, but in the
soviet union it was famouslylike mole skins and if, if the
czar over deciding uh what thevalue of a mole skin was thought
it picked it as too high.
Well, they'd just get this giantoversupply of mole skins, which

(01:00:48):
the government bought at theprice because that was what the
guy said they were worth, and itwas like 26, I forget.
It's some ridiculous number ofpricing decisions they had to
make every day, instead of justletting it go and not having it
be centralized sure becauseinflation changes and what was
working on the poverty line lastyear, two years ago, suddenly

(01:01:09):
that doesn't even work.
But by the guidelines I stilldon't even qualify and and
furthermore it's.
It's a really tough thing where, where you say, you know we, we
have this, these resources forthese people who need it, but
you get more what youincentivize, unfortunately, and
then you get people instead oflike.
You hear stories all the timeabout somebody saying I was

(01:01:30):
offered a promotion and I didn'ttake it because I would have
lost my housing, I would havelost my snap or whatever or
somebody can't work more hoursat their job like I.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
I can only work this many hours at the restaurant
this week, otherwise I'm goingto lose, you know, um, the
subsidy that I'm getting right,and I won't be able to afford my
life.
Uh, yeah, that's a massiveproblem.
I would love to see theincentive go the other direction
, where it's like no, we, wewant you to work more, we want

(01:02:02):
more stability within oureconomy and infrastructure
through labor, rather than, youknow, tax, tax dollars that go
up and trickle back down a good,a good basic example.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
That, um that I can still still remember from one of
my early economics courses incollege was you know, if
somebody could theoreticallywork zero hours but get, like,
say, $20,000 from the governmentand all the various different
kinds of assistance, or theycould work full time and make
$40,000, in net, you'reeffectively working full time
for $20,000.
Because I could work nothingand get $20,000.
So I'm working full time to getan additional $40,000 in net.

(01:02:35):
You're effectively workingfull-time for $20,000, because I
could work nothing and get 20.
So I'm working full-time to getan additional 20.
And so the unfortunately, theprograms kind of disincentivize
deciding to go out and say I'mgoing to make something and I'm
going to go to work because I'mthe, the, the reward for right

(01:02:58):
the effort has been effectivelycut by that amount and it's
really tough because this isn'treally something that goes on at
the county level.
This is state and federal policyand nothing that we do is
really going to impact that,impact that.

(01:03:21):
But I I do think it's worthsaying if we can figure out ways
to not get more of it orincentivize or chase more of it,
that would be better.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
yeah, okay, last question, and then we'll move to
some close closing thoughts.
Uh, a lot of stock growers, alot of people, a lot of stock
growers, a lot of people, a lotof wildlife in Wallowa County
have been pretty negativelyaffected by wolves over the last
15 years or so.
But there's another one coming,which is the grizzly.

(01:03:47):
So grizzlies are being activelyintroduced into Washington
state.
They're being increasinglydisplaced out of the greater
Yellowstone ecosystem, travelinggreater distances throughout
the state of Idaho, and it'sonly a matter of time until
grizzlies end up in WallowaCounty.
What are your thoughts aroundthat as county commissioners?

(01:04:10):
Because in my opinion, thiswill be the first place in
Oregon that grizzlies show up.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
I went first last time.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
Yeah, we'll start with.

Speaker 3 (01:04:19):
Lisa, yeah, I definitely have read about it,
thought about it, know it'scoming, I think, a strong voice
working with ODF and W.
I think that we've learned alot through our life with wolves

(01:04:53):
and what might be again.
It's a scary thing because ourlives lie in the hands of
someone at the state level.
But, like I said, I think thatour new director I have hopes
that our new director has a moreproactive stance and is ready
for conversations like this.

(01:05:14):
But I think we can't be asleepat the wheel.
We have to be proactive.
We have to, before they gethere, say what are we going to
do, what are our, what are ourtools, what are we allowed to do
?

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
What would your policy be?

Speaker 3 (01:05:30):
Well, I don't necessarily agree with the wolf
policy right now, and so that'sreally tough because I feel like
, are they going to alignsomewhere there?
You know, um are there, I thinkI'd say.
Are there tags available?
Um, can they be hunted?
You know, I I think that justletting them go and run and see

(01:05:52):
what happens we're going to be,it's going to be way too late,
um.
So I think, before they get here, having a plan in place to um
minimize the impact as, uh asmuch as we can, um tracking
their whereabouts, tracking howclose they are, um I my personal

(01:06:14):
opinion, that again needs tolearn more, but I think that
sounds like a really bad idea.
So, and I don't know, I mean, Ithink that where, when you read
, and then again, you have to becareful what you read and what
the source is, but where wolvesmaybe aren't a danger to people,

(01:06:38):
we read and we know thatgrizzly bears are, and so that
makes it different to, in mymind, that we need to be more
aggressive in what we actuallywill allow.
I don't have a good answer, butI know that a problem is coming
and that we need to be verymuch on the front lines of of in

(01:07:02):
those conversations for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
Yeah, we had.
We had a wolf management planbefore we had wolves.
That didn't.
That didn't help us Devin.
What'd you got?

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
Yeah, that's a good point about the wolf management
plan.
We had it and that was the idea.
It's like, well, let's have aplan for what we're going to do,
but when ODF and W hasbasically proven that they're
just going to add on littlerules and this and that and just
keep putting up barriers to anykind of management outside of

(01:07:39):
the management plan, we can'treally trust them to stick to
their word or stick to whatthey're supposed to do.
Uh, with regards to anything,any new apex predator and and
lisa's absolutely right likegrizzly bears, a population here
probably wouldn't have adramatic impact on the game

(01:08:01):
species, the wilderness areaswhere some unknowing hikers just
walking along doesn't realizethat they've threatened

(01:08:23):
something, that can absolutelytear them apart yeah uh, that's
it's.
It's something that we need tofight tooth and nail and say, no
, we, we do not need grizzlybears here.
I think there's going to be agroup of people that think about
the bears, like the wolves,like, oh yeah, that well, they
belong out there.
And I have a lot of sympathy onthe wolf issue for the, the

(01:08:45):
sheep producers down aroundlostine that are right close to
town that are having that, havebeen having those problems all
spring yeah, some of them withincity limits, some of them them
within, or even I mean at leastjust right on the edge.
But repeatedly, and I think thatthere's quite a few people that
think, oh yeah, well, you know,wolves belong out there on the
landscape.
They might think bears belongout there on the landscape and

(01:09:09):
not realizing that they don'tstay out there on the landscape
where they belong.
I think there's been a fewpeople on the wolf issue that
thought well, you know, youranchers that have your cow
herds out there in big canyonlands and out on the prairie and
where the wolves belong, well,that's kind of your problem if
you want to have your cattle,your animals where the wolves

(01:09:30):
belong.
But it's not until they startknocking on the back door into
these small five-acre parcelswhere it becomes a problem and
the bears will do the same thing.
I can remember a there was acase upper I think it was
bonners ferry, idaho, about 10years ago where a grizzly bear
had gotten into a family's 4-hpig pen and the dad shot the

(01:09:52):
bear because it was broaddaylight and he got thrown in
jail for shooting a protectedspecies, at least in America or
in the lower 48, because they'renot endangered in Alaska,
they're not endangered in Canada, but for some reason we got to
throw guys in jail forprotecting their property, right
, right and the.

(01:10:13):
I mean the amazing part of thatstory was the community rally
together and at the fair whenthey were, I don't, I don't even
know if they had the pig tosell, but basically they, they
bid a whole bunch up for thatfamily, basically to help pay
legal fees for something likethat.
And it's, it's only a matter oftime If bears come here, they

(01:10:38):
will be coming down into the,the borderlands of the valley
around on the edge of thetimberline and that will be an
issue.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
Yeah, and they're going to kill people in the
wilderness.
Yeah, so I'm not running forcounty commissioner, so I don't
have to be as gentle about this.
I don't.
I don't want grizzlies here.
If a grizzly shows up, it needsto go back to the state that it
came from, and the state fromwhich it came is going to pay
for it.
Flat out.
We, we do not need grizzlieshere.
Um they're.

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
They're not that far away.
This would be the first placethat they would be brought to,
because I know whitebark pinenuts are a staple of grizzly
bears and we do have those.
They grow above what?
7 000 feet, I think yeah andespecially this time of year,
yeah but they might naturallycome down the north cascades.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
I don't know, I don't know how, how they move down
through there for, for sure, andand you know, just coming, you
know, through elk city,grangeville, crossing the
canyons you know, it's just kindof a natural my dad's convinced
that they actually saw what hethinks was an adolescent grizzly
like seven, eight years agowhen they were going out to pick
mushrooms.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
It's like bear runs across the road in front of them
, heading out zoom alt, yeah,and he was like there there was.
There was something differentabout that one.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
It wasn't very big but like the face shape was a
little bit different yeah, there, there's been some really
credible reports of of grizzliesbeing here, and it would only
make sense yeah, what aboutwolverines?
Wolverines, I know we have them.

Speaker 3 (01:11:59):
Yeah, I was gonna say they have, they're around yeah,
I've got questions about that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
Uh, you know, we, we hooked that wolverine up on game
camera the first time thosegame cameras were deployed and
it was from a wolverineresearcher.
Uh, I run a million gamecameras, not a million.
I have like 60 Tacticam gamecameras that I have out all the
time and I'm looking at about amillion and a half photos a year

(01:12:28):
.
I can't tell you how many timesI've forgotten to clear out an
SD card and then when I firstpull it up I'm like, oh, geez,
what's going on here?
It's like, oh, I forgot toclear out my card.
Nobody else has seen awolverine here, hasn't showed up
on anybody else's cameras,hasn't shown up in tracks.
I kind of wonder if maybe wejust didn't clear out an sd card
from alaska, um on, uh, on agame camera.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
Interesting, when I when I so I worked seasonal for
the forest service cut and trailand then, I think this was 2010
, one of the guys I can'tremember his name, but he was,
uh, one of the guys hired to goum inspect the contract trails.
That was back when there wasstimulus money and from the
obama administration and theythey hired a bunch of
contractors to go do thechainsaw trails in the snake

(01:13:12):
river unit in some places anyway.
So this guy was hired there andwe were doing the big beginning
of the season, uh, meetings andall that stuff and about wolves
and and you know, cartel potgrows and stuff to be aware of
when we're out and about, andthis guy raises his hands.
He's like, what about?
What about wolverines?
and he, in the winter time, wasa backcountry ski outfitter here

(01:13:34):
, here can't remember his name,but that was the first time I'd
ever heard anything about it andhe, he talked like his sort of
like there was wolves here,before they admitted there was
wolves here and he and theyimmediately go yeah, we don't
have those, those aren't here,that's not a thing and he was
like hmm, they travel greatdistances and, uh, it's

(01:13:55):
certainly possible.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
Certainly possible.
So, yeah, let's move on toclosing thoughts.
Take a few minutes apiece.
Start with you, devin.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
Well, why should?

Speaker 1 (01:14:11):
somebody vote for you .

Speaker 2 (01:14:14):
Somebody vote for you .
Well, what I haven't been ableto really put it any more

(01:14:37):
clearly than I was able to atthe candidate forum back in
April is, as somebody who hasdeep and broad ties to the
county, where I I'm a fifthgeneration uh family member here
.
Of my grandma, donnabutterfield's 20, I believe, 23
great grandkids, 21 of them arebeing raised here, most of them
on farms.
Uh, I, I, I can't express anymore strongly than that how much

(01:14:57):
I care about the future of ourcounty and the ability of not
just my kids and my extendedfamily, but everybody's ability
to be able to live, be able toafford to work sorry, work
afford to live and raise ourfamilies in this community.
When I, when I made thedecision to come back in 2015,

(01:15:20):
14, it was because this is whereI wanted to raise my kids.
Um, and after, uh, dissolvingthe partnership that I was
developing with my parents ontheir cattle ranch, the first
thing we my wife and Iprioritized was figuring out
what.

(01:15:40):
What do we have to do to beable to stay here to raise our
kids?
It would have been pretty easyto go find employment elsewhere
chasing, chasing, career andincome.
So we've we've been doing whatwe have to do to make it work to
stay here, because this iswhere we want to raise our kids,
and I would love nothing morethan for my kids and everybody

(01:16:11):
else's young kids to be able tohave the option, the choice, to
be able to stay and earn aliving here.
That necessitates prioritizingthe local economy.
Like doesn't matter our housing.
You can have a bunch, you cando some grant program and get a
bunch of houses built, but itdoesn't matter if nobody has
anywhere to work to be able tolive there and raise their
family and be able to providewhat is needed with an income.

(01:16:33):
So all of that, then, is is topoint to our agriculture and
natural resources sectors and,as the uh, as the farm person
between lisa and I, I I don'treally want it to.
I don't want to get pigeonholedinto.
Well, he only cares aboutfarming and ranching because
that's that's where he comesfrom.

(01:16:53):
No, no, I understand farmingand ranching, anding and the
issues that farmers and ranchersface, which we can get into,
whether it's the wolves, whetherit's the Forest Service,
rangeland policy, the timberpolicy or the water rights.
That is what it is.
I understand farming andranching because that's where I

(01:17:15):
come from.
I care about it because itactually matters.
It's the foundation upon whichthe rest of the local economy is
really built upon.
Like in the 1800s, peopledidn't move here because there
was places to live.
They moved here because therewas opportunity and we
backfilled the rest.
And that's the reason that wehave towns and we have

(01:17:36):
year-round communities.
If we lose the thing that is oureconomic foundation, which is a
harvest of a natural resourcethat we can sell out of the area
I mean the human food productof wheat, barley or other

(01:18:05):
livestock feeds that we ship outwith, say, alfalfa and timothy
and other forages that is thefoundation upon which we have
grocery stores, we haverestaurants, we have gas
stations, we have everythingelse and the service industries
that then are supplemented inthe summertime with the influx
of visitors.
That's great.

(01:18:25):
I think it's awesome.
We live in a beautiful place,people are going to come visit.
I think that's awesome, butit's not the thing that can
replace the real harvest of anatural resource and a real
creation of wealth.
And if we slowly, over time, letthat get chipped away the same
way that timber went, thenreally all we have left for an
economy is trying to get peopleto come here with the money in
their pocket and then we justsort of become whatever we think

(01:18:48):
we'll get people to come herewith money in their pocket.
So I think it's reallyimportant to be an advocate for
our, our real foundationaleconomy, and that requires
understanding it well enough tobe able to go advocate for at
the state level back in dc.
Um, yes, we have to collaboratewith the forest service, but we

(01:19:09):
don't have to just rubber stampeverything they do because they
need to push back when half ofour grazing allotments are not
stocked because they they've gottheir end run around.
Got to do nepa, got to do this,got to do that.
Well, that's an economic thathas a big economic impact on our
county and we we just can'tafford to keep having stuff

(01:19:33):
chipped away the way we lost ourtimber industry.

Speaker 3 (01:19:41):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:19:42):
Awesome Lisa.

Speaker 3 (01:19:44):
I agree with all that .
Why should people vote for you?
I have lived here a long time.
Like Devin said, we moved backhere to raise our kids because
this is such a special place.
We loved growing up here.
Wallowa County values WallowaCounty people.

(01:20:06):
They're like no other.
And we've been to other placesand we chose to come back here.
We're back here on purpose,reminiscing about growing up and
riding your bikes and beingable to walk downtown and being
able to have those farmexperiences.
I was raised by the timberindustry and the tourism

(01:20:28):
industry, hand in hand.
One of my first jobs waschanging pipe.
It's like these experiences,these experiences that that kids
have here, make them differentadults.
They make them high quality,respectable, wonderful adults.
We kids are one of our mainnatural resources and you know,

(01:20:52):
just pouring love andexperiences pulling from the
county and so keeping it thatway is very important.
Otherwise we grow in ways thatwe don't plan and we just become
like what Devin said,everywhere else America and it's
like we don't want that.

(01:21:14):
So just why should people votefor me?
I love Wallowa County.
I want to be a countycommissioner.
I stepped forward on my ownbecause I wanted to do it and I
love the people.
I'm very connected with thepeople.
I feel like I can speak for thepeople well.
I feel like I can speak for thepeople well, though I will also

(01:21:42):
use their voice, even if Ithink I know what they need or
what they want.
It's a team sport, you know.
Everybody has a say and it alsois I try to encourage.
I think trusting the peoplethat you elect is amazing, but,
like we said earlier, one of myfavorite sayings is trust but
verify, and that verify piece isstay involved, be involved.

(01:22:07):
We want you to be involved.
Come to meetings, tell uswhat's on your mind, tell us
what you need.
We're there for you.
What you need, we're there foryou, and I'm ready for that, and
I've been living that.
That's what I, that's what I'vebeen doing for years, and so
this is just, I think, thenatural next step, for that is
how can I help people on a on abroader scale, and the people of

(01:22:32):
Olawa County are pretty special.

Speaker 1 (01:22:34):
Yeah, I agree.
Well, I want to thank both ofyou for coming out to do this.
I know it can be a little bitscary to to talk for this long.
There's a lot of fear that,like you're going to say
something wrong and that'swhat's going to be used against
you, but I I really feel likethis is a great way for people
to get to know you a little bitand and understand who you are

(01:22:56):
in a more meaningful way thanmost formats that are available
today.
So I appreciate both of you andI think that, whichever one of
you wins, you're going to do agreat job for the county.
I'm going to be happy eitherway.
So thanks again and, yeah, hopeyou all have a great day.
Bye everybody, and yeah, hopeyou all have a great day.
Bye everybody.

(01:23:16):
I just want to take a secondand thank everyone who's written
a review, who has sent mail,who's sent emails, who's sent
messages.
Your support is incredible, andI also love running into you at
trade shows and events and justout on the hillside when we're
hunting.
I think that that's fantastic.
I hope you guys keepadventuring as hard and as often
as you can.

(01:23:37):
Art for the Six Ranch Podcastwas created by John Chatelain
and was digitized by CeliaHarlander.
Original music was written andperformed by Justin Hay, and the
Six Ranch Podcast is nowproduced by Six Ranch Media.
Thank you all so much for yourcontinued support of the show

(01:23:58):
and I look forward to next weekwhen we can bring you a brand
new episode.