November 29, 2021 • 47 mins
Criminal psychologist Tim Watson-Munro and criminal anthropologist Dr Xanthe Mallett join Michael Usher to delve into the minds of some of the world's worst psychopaths, narcissists and sociopaths to unravel the real reasons behind their chilling crimes. Cases include Dalia Dippolito, Jerrod Murray, Fiona Barbieri and Ivan Milat.
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Seventeen people dead.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
So this is as close as we're going to get
to what really happened.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
To be in the room with the murderer.
Speaker 4 (00:16):
You've got to be measured, you've got to be in control.
Speaker 5 (00:19):
I'm Tim Watson Monroe. For the past four decades, I've
peered inside the minds of some of the most depraved
murderers in Australia and I overseas, and tonight I'm going
to tell you what I see twice, what triggered him
on that day.
Speaker 6 (00:38):
It's a thrill coil.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I'm doctor Xanthony Mannett. I dissect the behavior of the
people who commit the most serious crimes, and tonight I'm
going to show you what we do when analyzing the psychopaths,
sociopaths and narcissists.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
The months premeditation, the planning.
Speaker 7 (00:56):
So unbelievably powerful, true, I.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Think he wants to be welcomes no empathy, no remorse,
the first time they've been challenged, the first time they've
been put on the spot.
Speaker 8 (01:08):
And I'm Michael Lusher.
Speaker 9 (01:10):
Usually the public only ever sees a short snippet of
a recorded police interview, if that, But tonight we're going
to break down the interrogations and the confessions of the
worst of the worst. It is a fascinating insight into
the deadly games they play and the intricate tricks used
to catch them out. Poison candy, total.
Speaker 5 (01:31):
Madness, excruciating detail.
Speaker 8 (01:34):
The devil that is showing.
Speaker 10 (01:40):
Bills in your time.
Speaker 9 (01:45):
What you're about to watch could be a movie, but
incredibly it is a true story. It has all the
elements of a Hollywood true crime drama in Florida, a
higher escort turned murderous wife, a complex and dramatic police operation,
and recorded video of a young newlywed hiring a hitman
to murder her new husband. That is the incredible true
(02:08):
story of the attempted murder of Mike Dippolito by his
beautiful wife Dahlia. On the fourth of October two thousand
(02:30):
and nine, as the sun began to set over Boynton
Beach in Florida, thirty eight year old entrepreneur Michael Dippolito,
whose wife was out of town, decided to hire an
escort for the night.
Speaker 8 (02:43):
Thirty five minutes.
Speaker 9 (02:44):
Later, twenty six year old Dahlia Muhammad showed up. Just
two weeks after their first acquaintance, Michael filed for divorce
from his wife of seven years, and proposed to Dahlia
with a twenty thousand dollar engagement ring. She said yes.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
After one night stand with a prostitute, he falls in
love and then leaves his wife. And I'm sure she
was in character at that point, and then when she's
got a hooks into him, the real heir comes out.
The evil her h.
Speaker 11 (03:30):
Hear you, I'll target some stuff I have to wear an.
Speaker 10 (03:38):
Tell you I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 12 (03:40):
And what is that?
Speaker 11 (03:44):
And how if you got recommendation?
Speaker 13 (03:47):
You know what you want? What you know about?
Speaker 10 (03:49):
Who is your husband? Her words coming.
Speaker 11 (03:52):
Up in that.
Speaker 10 (03:55):
Oh realk a the days, you know, after I talked
to the baby.
Speaker 11 (03:58):
You know there's ball gardens and I don't do to
get home. I just want to make sure that you
know just what's.
Speaker 13 (04:05):
Normal, okay, because you know.
Speaker 11 (04:08):
I mean our world. I'm doing my dual favor any
non's and I'm Lobo the pace, you know what I mean.
So I just want to make sure that you know
just what's you want a right to do?
Speaker 14 (04:23):
We really have, you know, I had thought it'd be
at last, you know, Philaelphia.
Speaker 9 (04:35):
This would be the first of a total fifteen times
that Dahlia would look directly into the hidden camera. Not
only is she being secretly filmed, but her hired gun
is a cop pretending to be a contract killer.
Speaker 6 (04:54):
I was a little shocked because I didn't think she
was going to be that open.
Speaker 8 (04:58):
So I came here pretty much in this.
Speaker 9 (05:00):
Example spot right here, there's a lot quote on camera here,
let's have a little bit more of a look at
Dahli or on a hidden camera, and.
Speaker 14 (05:16):
We got everything more.
Speaker 8 (05:17):
Well, let's it's up to you.
Speaker 15 (05:19):
I mean I do like that's being like my understanding
of everything life is that, like you know, I was,
I was gonna give you what I gave you, and
then that was.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
That everything I do.
Speaker 14 (05:36):
Until after the back, and then after the back, I
guess you we're gonna come and like find you or whatever.
Speaker 13 (05:41):
I mean, I'm good for Like it's.
Speaker 14 (05:42):
Not like I don't have it saying.
Speaker 13 (05:44):
I mean, I know not to put.
Speaker 14 (05:46):
Around with you, you know certain things whatever, like you
know what I mean, Like you obviously know where I'm at.
Speaker 11 (05:52):
Well, I'll well, you're a pressure.
Speaker 14 (05:55):
Because I don't want no, I'm not gonna you know,
I'm a lot pupper than what I love and I know.
Speaker 9 (06:11):
I'm tougher than what I. Look, what on earth is
going on here?
Speaker 5 (06:14):
Well, she's a psychopath and it's extraordinary footage.
Speaker 8 (06:18):
The police are.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
Reeling her in, but she's reeling in the under the
undercover guy thinking that he's a hip man. She's a
narcissist and cold blooded, calculating cruel She's more concerned about
her image than the fact that she's going to have
her husband killed. Zanthe.
Speaker 9 (06:35):
She's plotting, as Tim said, to kill her husband here
in part of that there you get some idea of
her personality. She's flattered when he praises her. I'm tougher
than I.
Speaker 10 (06:44):
Look.
Speaker 8 (06:44):
What do you make of Dahlia?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Well, she's definitely playing a role, isn't she the kind
of the little girl? But also, as you say, you know,
what she's doing is plotting kill her husband, but she's
kind of playing both off together, flirting with him whilst plotting.
Speaker 6 (06:56):
To murder someone.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
It's it's really quite extraordinary to it.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
But she's covering her tracks. You know, she doesn't want
an emails. She's haggling over money and she's very clear
on what her objectives are. So underneath that Veneer of
niceness and little girl, you've got a calculating, narcissistic psychopath.
Speaker 9 (07:14):
To understand her motive for murder, let's rewind. In public,
Dahlia played the role of loving wife, but in private,
she wanted out of her quick fire marriage. Her initial
plan was to frame her husband Michael as a drug
(07:36):
dealer with an existing criminal record. He'd go to jail
and she'd be free.
Speaker 7 (07:42):
She's the sociopath next door, and she's willing to do
anything to get what she wants. She wanted this lifestyle
that she thought that Mike deep Deplito could offer her.
She saw him as a target from the very beginning.
She thought this was a quick, easy one too. Let
me marry him and he'll be gone.
Speaker 16 (08:04):
Before you know.
Speaker 9 (08:06):
Dahlia allegedly planted drugs in his car and anonymously called
the police. When Michael became suspicious, she diverted his attention
by telling him she was pregnant. He was ecstatic she
was lying. Next, she contacted her ex lover Mike Stanley,
(08:27):
a guy she had dumped on three separate occasions, yet
managed to reel him back in with a single text.
She got Mike to pose as a lawyer ring her
husband and give him the misleading legal advice that to
resolve his problems with the police, he needed to transfer
(08:49):
his house into his wife's name. Astonishingly, Michael agreed. Dahlia
then turned to another ex lover, Mohammed Shahidi, and asked
him to hire a hitman to kill her husband. Mohammed
told the police, and they move mountains to trap Darlien.
Speaker 11 (09:09):
Which is why I said that are between now and
when it's done. You know, you neither have an out
of change your money, but if you change your mind
top in.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Order, it's not changing now.
Speaker 6 (09:18):
There's no like.
Speaker 15 (09:22):
Like play down to show.
Speaker 9 (09:24):
Yeah, let's back this up a minute here, five thousand
percent shaws Anty.
Speaker 8 (09:28):
She's saying, this is quite extraordinary.
Speaker 12 (09:30):
It is.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I mean, she's saying, I'm not going back.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
You know, she's made up her mind, hasn't she And
she's still doing it in that kind of little girl voice.
It's it's incredible to watch the manipulation.
Speaker 5 (09:39):
That's a play here, the grandiosity of the narcissist to
five one hundred percent, five thousand percent. She's haggling over
this fee when she stands to make a lot of
money out of his death. He's already signed over the house,
and when he dies, she's going to inherit a lot
more money.
Speaker 10 (09:56):
And yet you know.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
She's a pound wire and penny foolish.
Speaker 11 (10:00):
Really, there's a lot of stuff I got to do
that's gonna.
Speaker 13 (10:04):
Cost me a lot of money.
Speaker 14 (10:05):
How to be good like at the house, like how
to be hod of bought up?
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Soon?
Speaker 5 (10:09):
Could you do it?
Speaker 11 (10:10):
And I'll do it Wednesday morning. It's gonna be like
op breaking to the house.
Speaker 10 (10:14):
You know, didn't think it was gonna be home because.
Speaker 13 (10:15):
Everybody works in the daytime.
Speaker 11 (10:17):
I want to take he's at work.
Speaker 13 (10:18):
When he's not at work.
Speaker 11 (10:19):
Then you know he gets to in the head that said,
you know, I take a couple of things with me,
fix a couple of windows and make it look like
a robbery that.
Speaker 13 (10:25):
Went bad, and so all over.
Speaker 16 (10:26):
I'm gone out of there.
Speaker 14 (10:29):
Around six thirty seven o'clock.
Speaker 16 (10:31):
You always locked the dog.
Speaker 14 (10:32):
In the morning, okay, and walk the dog across like
over where the lake is, and our doors always a lock.
Speaker 11 (10:38):
I'll be in their house bus six thirty Wednesday morning
at six o'clock, I will lash.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
I guess you're here.
Speaker 13 (10:48):
From all right?
Speaker 9 (10:50):
Thanks Donlia left her car, believing her husband would be murdered.
Two days later, at five point fifty three on Wednesday morning,
she went to the gym as ordered. Police then knocked
on the door and gave her husband the chilling news
of his wife's intentions before whisking him away. One hour later,
(11:12):
Darli was called back to the house by a sergeant.
Everything about the crime scene was fake, except for the
news camera, which captured the entire incident.
Speaker 10 (11:24):
I'm Sergeant Ramsey.
Speaker 8 (11:25):
I'm not going to call you. Thank you for comment.
Speaker 16 (11:27):
I'm sorry to call you.
Speaker 6 (11:28):
Listen.
Speaker 16 (11:28):
We had a reported a disturbance at your house and
there were shots fired as your husband, Michael Okay.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
I'm sorry to tell you man.
Speaker 8 (11:35):
He's been killed. He's been killed.
Speaker 16 (11:42):
Trying to comsten right now.
Speaker 8 (11:45):
We need to.
Speaker 6 (11:49):
I can't look at man.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
We have to do our job.
Speaker 16 (11:51):
If you want the finest killer, we need you to
calm that need yous Okay is your enemy? Is there
anyone that would want to hurt Okay?
Speaker 5 (12:02):
Who would want to hurt him?
Speaker 16 (12:04):
Witnesses said he saw a black mail.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
Running from me.
Speaker 10 (12:06):
I can't let you see him theam maam.
Speaker 16 (12:08):
I cannot do this right now.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
It's incredible to watch the manipulation that's to play here.
Speaker 8 (12:18):
I need you to take it to the station.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
I can't probably done it in front of a mirror
many many times preparing for that moment.
Speaker 8 (12:27):
Go with these detectives.
Speaker 16 (12:28):
If you want to help your husband, okay, if you
want to help your husband, you need to go to
the station with these gentlemen and tell us everything you
know about who he knows, who is connected to. Don't worry,
we've already taken care of dogs with animal control for
right now. Everything's under control, and we'll take care of
everything else.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
Okay, thank you guys.
Speaker 9 (12:51):
Now, detectives know the police record of interview is going
to be crucial in Dahlia's trial. Remember Dahlia's still playing
the part of a woman who believes her husband's just
been shot. Police officers have to play along to get
as much evidence as possible.
Speaker 12 (13:08):
Pull the call that we have to do with this
that you a way They got also rates, so you know, okay,
if you don't understand any of you, just tell me
and I'll stop and repeat it.
Speaker 10 (13:19):
First of all, let me just tell you I'm sorry
for your loss.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
The police interview is fantastic isn't he really kind? Applies
a lot of violin in many ways.
Speaker 17 (13:36):
I don't want to say that, you don't. I don't
know if you know he was shot, you shot twice.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
What they need is to make sure their case is
water tight. So they have to play along to the
point where they've got enough evidence to take this to
court and be successful in the conviction and pull that
moment on her bounce moment when they really shot her.
Speaker 17 (14:02):
Right now, I'm gonna go out and get in touch
with the ulcers in the scene. I wanna see if
the house was purgorized.
Speaker 13 (14:07):
Are you on the second.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Hondy call out there and.
Speaker 10 (14:15):
Play with Bergalize, take care you have to play that.
Speaker 12 (14:19):
How plent some water?
Speaker 10 (14:36):
As you know that advisor? Your rights?
Speaker 17 (14:38):
Right?
Speaker 10 (14:40):
Okay, the game's over with. Okay, there's no more games
with you and I. Now we're gonna get down to
serious business. I want to know if you know this guy,
come here, bring this guy in here, get over here,
get over here. You know who this guy is, you've
(15:00):
never seen him before before?
Speaker 8 (15:04):
That is a classic gotcha.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, it's brilliant, brilliantly done.
Speaker 9 (15:07):
Hard one though, because everyone has to stay in character
including the undercover cop who's playing the hitman.
Speaker 11 (15:13):
Do you know her?
Speaker 10 (15:15):
What's your head up? And look at what's your head up?
I've never seen what were you doing coming out of
her house? Whom here?
Speaker 5 (15:32):
It's at that point you can see the little switch
in her head going in another direction, thinking, oh, I'm
really blowing it here.
Speaker 8 (15:40):
She's scrambling for which personality to play.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, what do I do?
Speaker 17 (15:42):
Now?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
We know that truth, so.
Speaker 10 (15:48):
I know that's why I.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Commit to that. Pews your time.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
She's going to stick to her story whatever comes.
Speaker 9 (16:00):
Darlia continues to play her role and never breaks character,
not even when police try and shock her by having
her supposedly dead husband stand in the doorway.
Speaker 13 (16:14):
Oh my god, who's why came you here?
Speaker 12 (16:17):
Please come here?
Speaker 5 (16:20):
They come here?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Come here, come here?
Speaker 10 (16:25):
Why come here?
Speaker 5 (16:29):
Please come here?
Speaker 10 (16:31):
Okay, we'll take back both clips.
Speaker 9 (16:35):
Wow wow, my right in saying a true trait of
narcissists or narcissism is they never concede error, They never
give in.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
They never give in, and they gaslight so they reshape
your reality to suit their reality.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
The video is not gonna lie you so like a
fool right now then.
Speaker 10 (17:00):
Because.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
Their po face lies, and they'll tell you black is
white all day long, and you come to believe it,
if you're vulnerable enough that black.
Speaker 13 (17:11):
Is whiteble.
Speaker 6 (17:15):
Yeah, I can't help you.
Speaker 9 (17:24):
Think anyone to have you kill her that.
Speaker 6 (17:34):
How can you bother that.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
She's a master at there. She has been doing this
her whole life, and she is used to the majority
of people falling for it, and she will surround herself
by people who will go along with this and will
give her.
Speaker 6 (17:49):
What she needs.
Speaker 9 (17:51):
Well, a crime like Dahlia's is a once in a
lifetime opportunity for a criminal.
Speaker 8 (17:55):
Prosecutor. Liz Parker took on the case.
Speaker 7 (18:01):
Dahlia was a woman who, at a very young age,
learned that she could use her sexuality to get men
to do whatever she wanted.
Speaker 9 (18:11):
This sort of person's often been described as what we
described here as a black widow, like a black widow spider.
Speaker 7 (18:17):
In fact, I described her as poison candy, where she
was attractive on the outside but deadly on the inside.
Speaker 9 (18:26):
In April twenty eleven, Dahlia went to trial. Her defense
was bizarre. Her lawyers claimed Michael Dippolito was a fan
of reality TV and the murder for higher plot was
a hoax just so he could get on television.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
I'm just having come on with you with.
Speaker 10 (18:47):
Is this this sucks?
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Okay?
Speaker 6 (18:52):
Let me just start off by saying, you know, when
I married my wife, I was very much in love.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
With her and I thought we were doing things that
normal matters people.
Speaker 10 (19:01):
Do and that was a very good husband.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
I mean, this girl doesn't feel sorry friending.
Speaker 10 (19:06):
She still doesn't think she did anything.
Speaker 9 (19:08):
Dahlia was found guilty.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And I'm setting from you to twenty years in the
Department of Corrections.
Speaker 9 (19:13):
But one month later the verdict was overturned on a technicality.
Two more trials would follow, during which time Dahlia gave
this TV interview.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
Who is Dahlia to belt it?
Speaker 6 (19:26):
Understanding?
Speaker 9 (19:28):
Sweet and compassionate?
Speaker 12 (19:31):
You got everything all up to you.
Speaker 14 (19:37):
I'm partited like thousand.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
You were acting in those tapes.
Speaker 8 (19:42):
Yes, but you're telling the truth now. Yes?
Speaker 4 (19:45):
Why should we believe you?
Speaker 6 (19:46):
If it's what happened, it's the truth.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
She's now had a bit of time to try to
get a story more in line with a fantasy, and
she thinks.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
She can still manipulate her way out of this.
Speaker 8 (20:00):
But she couldn't.
Speaker 10 (20:02):
We the jury find as follow us as to count one.
Speaker 11 (20:05):
We find the defendant guilty of solicitation to commit first
degree murders as charged in the information.
Speaker 9 (20:12):
On July twenty one, twenty seventeen, Dahlia Dippolito was sentenced
to sixteen years in prison without parole.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
I guess I'm just doing a real art time understanding.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
Why he's a monster.
Speaker 9 (20:42):
Is this man criminally insane or is it just a
very convincing act?
Speaker 8 (20:52):
Okay?
Speaker 11 (20:52):
Really, he.
Speaker 6 (20:56):
Definitely has delusions of grandeur. Thanks that he is God,
and on the chessboard of life, my son was upon
and he outloved his usefulness.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
My name is under sure. J. T.
Speaker 18 (21:22):
Harmer mean you met on Sara Harland once only served
in about scendro and about three twelve this one didn't.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
We yes, sir okay, And that you made a couple
of statements to me insummation that I'm giving us of
what a murder?
Speaker 19 (21:40):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (21:40):
And who did you murder? Genera?
Speaker 9 (21:48):
This case is completely baffling in its violence and really
just total madness. In twenty twelve, Jared Murray asked a
college door mate, Gennaro Sanchez, to drive him to a
nearby supermarket, but instead of picking up supplies. Jared Murray
shot Gennaro dead in one of the strangest thrill killings
the sheriff's team has ever seen.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
How did you murder him?
Speaker 11 (22:13):
With a gun?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Hashiman the head twice? Three shots were fired, one nest.
Speaker 9 (22:19):
So, when this interrogation was played on YouTube by the
JCS Psychology under the heading what pretending to be crazy
looks like? It clocked up sixty million views. People just
couldn't believe it, as we have not been able to
believe it watching it. Now, watch this next section very closely.
This Oklahoma sheriff is trying to get Jared Murray on tape,
(22:39):
saying he'd planned his college doormates execution that'll give prosecutors
every chance of convicting him of murder. Otherwise, he knows
that almost certainly he'll be found not guilty by reason
of insanity. Everything he says to Jared Murray is important
from here on in.
Speaker 8 (22:57):
So take a look.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
How did you guys?
Speaker 20 (23:02):
I went down to his dorm room and asked if
I could be given around to Walmart in exchange for
twenty dollars gas money?
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Did you agree to that, yes, sir? And did he
prot take you a walmart. Yes, sir, we got his
big up trick and he drove me to walk. So
you talk about the war wart later, Yes, sir?
Speaker 10 (23:22):
Did you both do in?
Speaker 3 (23:23):
No, he did not go in, sir, and w We
pulled into the parking lot.
Speaker 20 (23:27):
Then I pulled the weapon on him and demanded that
he take me to Asher a closer I wanted.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Did all of a sudden, did you decide you need
to go to.
Speaker 20 (23:35):
Asher because I was planning to take him out into
the country and kill him.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
Okay, well, it's all considered. The difficult questions. He pauses
and call complates his answer because he's trying to keep
control of the process. Again, you don't get this with
people who are insane or out of touch with reality.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
He does have to you the sorry, Yeah, so you just.
Speaker 18 (24:19):
Can you cat tell me when you made this decision
that you was gonna take him and kill Why?
Speaker 21 (24:27):
Uh I ned decision three days prior to the incident.
Uh I attempted it two days prior to the incident,
but he was not in his room and did so
today as he was in his room.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
All I'm seeing here is premeditation five days before he
selects the victim two days before he has a crack,
but he's not there, and he goes into excruciating detail
about what he did and why he did it and
why him all the.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Kids and followed your on you. I believed that he
would have had the least impact, sir, an impact.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Of what.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
I believed.
Speaker 13 (25:08):
He didn't have many friends or many close friends.
Speaker 20 (25:11):
I should preferres and as his as he's going missing,
his absence would be less notable.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
I mean, most people who are crazy, if we can
use that term, are generally disorganized. This guy is very organized.
He's organized a firearm, he's organized the victim, he's set
up the ambush.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
He's thought about it, fantasized about it for a long time,
planned it in minute detail, carried it out, planned to
get away with it. You know, I just don't see
insanity here at all, obviously, you know, frightening in his approach,
but not insane.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
When you told horror in a mine, yes, what did
you tell him? I told him to take me to
that as sure as sure?
Speaker 11 (26:06):
And did he say, uh?
Speaker 3 (26:09):
He wanted to pull out his phone.
Speaker 20 (26:12):
I ated the phone out of his hand, and then
he added some more, can't telling me not to kill
him to.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Make him feel more comfortable. I unloaded the clip, unloaded the.
Speaker 20 (26:21):
Bullet from the chamber, and then over to him, and
that east his nerves a little.
Speaker 6 (26:28):
My son, for thirty five forty five minutes begged for
his life. And every time that he would do that,
Jared would take the clip out of the gun and
would hand him a bullet to calm him down. He
did that the entire drive until he got ready to
kill him.
Speaker 13 (26:55):
Then I pulled a second clip out of my pocket
and sat it on my lap.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
I'll tell you what happened. I loaded the gun quickly,
chambered around, quickly, shot at once.
Speaker 8 (27:05):
Missed, shot at second time.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
It jumped out of the car, went around. He was
driving ten fifteen miles an hour.
Speaker 13 (27:11):
So it was rather slow.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Ran around the hood of the carl, and of course
it was slow, and he wasn't purposely driving.
Speaker 21 (27:19):
Tried to pull him out, couldn't get him out until
he already had hit the tree. Pulled him out there,
dumped him into the now before I uned him into
the ditch, I heard.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Him out gurgling.
Speaker 6 (27:30):
He heard him making gurgling noises, and so he shot
him the third time in the head again and rolled
him down the ditch and covered him with leaves and twigs.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
He was gurgling, so I shot him again and then shut.
Speaker 8 (27:50):
Him down in the ditch.
Speaker 6 (27:59):
He was born the seventh, nineteen ninety four, and he
was a good little boy. He was my goof ball.
He was my drama king. He was an ab student,
more a's than B. So you know, he was really smart,
but dumb as a box of rocks. The kid had
(28:21):
no common sense whatsoever, but he loved everybody, and everybody
loved him. I get this message, so I call Here's County,
the Sheriff's office, and they were like, well, ma'am, we
hate to be the one to tell you this, but
your son was murdered. He was an innocent bystandard, but
(28:45):
he was murdered. My legs just gave out. I just
collapsed and just started screaming.
Speaker 5 (28:59):
You're all right, you.
Speaker 18 (29:00):
Get piss point bright, because I mean you you sat
here and confessor pretty much in my mind, and I
think you might agree with miss Cole Bradley killed him
on that.
Speaker 10 (29:13):
Yes, all right?
Speaker 3 (29:13):
So have you have you killed anybody else? Yes, sir,
I know I've never armed. I'm understanding.
Speaker 8 (29:25):
Well, you got out of it?
Speaker 10 (29:28):
Can you can you?
Speaker 8 (29:29):
Can you help me?
Speaker 3 (29:32):
I don't really get anything out of it. Do you
feel any remorse?
Speaker 13 (29:41):
I'm sad that I got caught so quickly.
Speaker 9 (29:53):
Are we looking at a potential serial killer stopped in
his path here?
Speaker 10 (29:57):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (29:58):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (30:00):
How would you describe it?
Speaker 5 (30:01):
Cold?
Speaker 6 (30:03):
Very cold, calculating. I think that he was just setting
back to see what he could say and get away with.
Speaker 9 (30:14):
There's almost an arrogance whor a matter of fact about
him as well, isn't it the way he presents him?
Speaker 19 (30:18):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (30:19):
Yes, he's very narcissistic. He's just he's a monster. He's
a psychopath. I think that he's just dead. I think
that he's just dead inside.
Speaker 8 (30:36):
Do you believe Jared Murray's insane?
Speaker 6 (30:38):
Heck, now, he's not. He's not insane.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
She's articulated everything I think about this black He's a psychopath.
No remorse, He's not crazy. He knew what he was doing.
She described him as the devil. I would say, as
a person that would have gone on and kept killing
until he was caught.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Now, that lack of any sense emotional connection with what's
going on, I mean, if he watched that interview, he
wouldn't care he has no regard for the pain that
he causes others.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
I think he'd be emboldened by It's more attention, you
see what these people thrive on his attention and keeping
the story alive, so he would possibly revel in her
pain too.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
You know, you know a general thing to know? Yes, sir,
you kill a young man? Yes, sir, just for the
simple fact I guess pretty much is to say for you, Yes, sir,
what do you think she happened to you? Death sentence?
Speaker 10 (31:47):
Sir?
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Why do you think he deserves? And an answer?
Speaker 10 (31:55):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 9 (31:59):
Astonishingly, Jared Murray was found not guilty by reason of insanity.
He avoided the death penalty and is now in a
high security mental facility.
Speaker 6 (32:15):
It makes me very angry.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Anything to say for yourself today?
Speaker 6 (32:20):
He murdered my son and got away with it.
Speaker 13 (32:22):
Any reason why you might have done this this young man?
Speaker 2 (32:25):
No reason.
Speaker 15 (32:27):
You have nothing to say for yourself.
Speaker 22 (32:29):
Do you want to tell the community anything?
Speaker 6 (32:32):
Did you confess the police?
Speaker 20 (32:34):
Are you proud of what you've done?
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Do you have remorse for what you've done?
Speaker 8 (32:48):
It makes me angry, fearful for others once he's released.
Speaker 6 (32:52):
Yes, yes, because anything could make him snap and he
could easily kill. He's had to taste of blood and
he likes it.
Speaker 22 (33:13):
All.
Speaker 13 (33:13):
Right, Are you not obliged to say or to do anything?
Speaker 5 (33:17):
Nless you wish any you say or do with it
recorded electronically on DVD.
Speaker 13 (33:22):
Is he who takes place and maybe use evidence? Do
you understand that?
Speaker 10 (33:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 9 (33:28):
At this point in this show, I decided to call
in an old friend and police contact, because if anyone
knows about the secrets.
Speaker 8 (33:36):
Of the interview room, it is Nick Calvis a pleasure.
Speaker 9 (33:43):
He was a decorated police officer, rising to the rank
of deputy commissioner.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
I'm fender refire from a police for a batter thirty
four years.
Speaker 9 (33:51):
A respected cop, a man who's seen it all and
seen through the more.
Speaker 20 (33:57):
And you understand that the reason that you're under arrest
is in relation to a murder investigation.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Well, they're not seeing too.
Speaker 8 (34:04):
I speak to my lawyer take one.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
Some people I don't know where it's just the presence
of the camera or what it is, but they just
they let it all out.
Speaker 8 (34:17):
They just want to talk.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
And it wasn't the end of the world. We all
thought we'd never get another confession.
Speaker 20 (34:25):
Did I did?
Speaker 4 (34:27):
We tell the public the minimum stuff. They see very
little and they don't understand a lot of what happens.
Speaker 8 (34:32):
I think this name.
Speaker 13 (34:35):
It's funny.
Speaker 8 (34:36):
It is funny.
Speaker 9 (34:37):
How crucial is a police recorded interview?
Speaker 8 (34:41):
A record of interview is really important?
Speaker 9 (34:44):
Did they appear to be dead when you're the one
that fell back on the road?
Speaker 10 (34:48):
Wasn't what happened?
Speaker 9 (34:49):
Then I let off.
Speaker 8 (34:50):
Another two rounds? Well, like purpose finish off.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
It's more often than not, the interview is the the
piece of evidence that can swing the case.
Speaker 11 (35:00):
That's more import You didn't have to keep telling me, okay,
I know that you.
Speaker 20 (35:05):
Was your ma care when it happened.
Speaker 10 (35:06):
Do you think I feel about that?
Speaker 4 (35:08):
It's a culmination of any investigation that you may have
been going on for months, sometimes years, and then finally
you know that the final phase is usually the interview.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
What was your ultimate goal?
Speaker 11 (35:19):
Kill that.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
I was going to butcher them?
Speaker 13 (35:22):
Yeah, but when you say that, you mean that you
were going to kill?
Speaker 10 (35:26):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (35:27):
That was that?
Speaker 20 (35:28):
When?
Speaker 10 (35:28):
Is that normal?
Speaker 3 (35:29):
And column normal?
Speaker 8 (35:31):
You're going to get butchered? You've got to be listening.
You have definitely you don't know what that person to
a chair is going to say.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
Active listening is really important, as they call it, and
it's about perhaps not saying anything, but being very active
in the conversation by taking in everything, analyzing it while
it's being said, and then reacting to it when when
the time is right.
Speaker 10 (35:53):
Okay, now you know, you're just acting like that because.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
We'll relax.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
You're just acting like that because I'm making sense down
I'm making sense, and you don't like when it makes sense.
Speaker 9 (36:08):
So when the video recording a Beauty Views came in,
there was a fear that people would clam up, they
wouldn't tell you another thing ever again.
Speaker 8 (36:13):
Exactly that's what everybody thought would happen. The opposite is true,
the opposite. Yeah, and explain that. I really can't.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
I'm not a psychologist, but what I something about human
nature and those who have been involved in criminal activity
when they get in front of the camera, certainly some
of them war mass feel as if they're gloating about.
Speaker 8 (36:29):
What they've done.
Speaker 13 (36:30):
Do you agree you've got an amount of blow on
both of your hands?
Speaker 10 (36:32):
Yeah? Yeah, more more, and you're right in okay, is
that your blood.
Speaker 8 (36:37):
Could be all free? Don't?
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Okay?
Speaker 8 (36:40):
Probably all free.
Speaker 9 (36:42):
What if you're sitting across the desk from an outright liar.
Speaker 8 (36:45):
You know that they're not telling you the truth. How
do you handle it?
Speaker 4 (36:48):
There's they say, if you can't control yourself, how can
you control anyone else? And that's really relevant for cops
because you have to be You can confront them with
a lie, but you can do it the way I'm
talking that scream and yell it doesn't help.
Speaker 9 (37:03):
Because what strikes me in a lot of the police
interviews that we now see, and we're going to see
a few of them, is a very patient, methodical process,
certainly not what we're used to seeing in.
Speaker 8 (37:15):
Films and dramas and things like that.
Speaker 9 (37:17):
It's a very thought out, structured way of interviewing, isn't
it It.
Speaker 8 (37:22):
Is, and it works much better than anything else, violence
or anything else. You can't do that anymore. Back in
the day a bit of that I've heard about that.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
The thing is, if you act in a way that
is unfair to the person, not only will it not
help your case, but you could have it all thrown out,
which is not what detectives want.
Speaker 8 (37:44):
Obviously. They want to make sure that whatever they get
out of him sticks.
Speaker 4 (37:48):
More often than not, you get to a point where
the person being interviewed realizes the game is up.
Speaker 8 (38:03):
Sometimes there's people who want to splur.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
You just get it all out, and you get the
odd occasion, very very rarely where someone's actually lying and
they didn't do anything, but they want to take the blame.
Speaker 8 (38:13):
That has happened as well.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
It has It's bizarre what psychology is that. I'm not
a psychologist, but I described them in a very technical
term as nuts.
Speaker 19 (38:22):
It is the Barbieries President Putam Australia.
Speaker 9 (38:28):
Let's talk about Fiona Barbieri. This is a case that
was a bit personal for you. That was one of
the toughest days in the police. I had the victim,
Bryce and Anderson was a terrific fellow. Nearly everyone in
the hierarchy worked with him at some stage.
Speaker 10 (38:42):
We love you, You will be in our hearts forever.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
He got to the rank of inspector at a young age.
I think he had a very bright future ahead of him.
Just a tragic, tragic case. What happened that day They
turned up for a complaint from neighbors and domestic violence
and so on. And from what I recall Bryson himself
and his workmates, we're actually wearing vests will prove vests,
(39:07):
but it doesn't stop you being stabbed in the neck.
Speaker 9 (39:09):
Let's have a look at Fiona Barbier and we do
I want to be.
Speaker 19 (39:12):
Interviewed until we are we are dealing with people from
a country of whom we can trust. We are living
here and Convict Australia cout Convict Australia, and we have
been doing our best to get.
Speaker 8 (39:26):
Out what is going on here. It's nuts, It's just nuts.
It's a state of psychosis of some sort. It's not
doesn't make any sense obviously.
Speaker 9 (39:36):
Now the detectives they're being cool. They are I mean,
any other person would want to lead across the desk
and say, what the hell is going on here?
Speaker 8 (39:43):
Come on?
Speaker 13 (39:44):
Do you understand that you do not have to uner?
You do not have to say or do anything unless
you want to. Do you understand that?
Speaker 17 (39:51):
Yes?
Speaker 20 (39:52):
I do?
Speaker 19 (39:52):
But how come you kit prompting me when I when
I'm telling you up front, I do not want to
participate in this interview. I do nothing personal mate, I
do not wish to speak to you. I do not
wish to speak to you. I am asking to speak
with President Putin of Russia or one of his representatives
who is familiar with the circumstances of what has been
(40:14):
taking place.
Speaker 9 (40:15):
I am going to stop that there. She doesn't want
to talk to the detectives. She wants to talk to
the Russian President Vladimir Putin.
Speaker 8 (40:24):
With whom she can trust what is going on in
this indiation. If I knew that, I'd be a millionaire.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
The bottom line is, I don't think she's all there,
and it's very difficult, it was in this case, to
continue the interview in a sane manner when the person
you're dealing with is clearly.
Speaker 8 (40:44):
Not making any sane statements. It's very difficult.
Speaker 9 (40:49):
If you could put anyone in a chair in an
interview room that you haven't been able to interview yourself,
who would it be?
Speaker 4 (40:54):
Probably the person that kidnapp will live Terror would be
a good start. Yeah, if you were God and you
were able to grab whoever you wanted to ask questions,
it'd be about going back to see unsolved murders that
should have been solved, where people haven't been arrested and
no one's been changed, and the grieving families never get closure.
(41:15):
Sometimes they don't get the body. You can't grieve properly.
You can't go to a grave side and pray for
them or leave flowers. It's all it's just that much harder.
Speaker 10 (41:25):
You're done talking to me, girl.
Speaker 9 (41:38):
I want to find some rapid questions at you guys,
the sorts of things people I guess always wonder about profiling.
Speaker 8 (41:46):
And analyzing criminals and killers.
Speaker 9 (41:53):
Tim How can you tell when someone's lying?
Speaker 5 (41:57):
They tell me the checks in the male, but beyond
that there's certain giveaways. It's what I look for is
eye contact, and you see it in some of those
interviews where they look away.
Speaker 8 (42:13):
X Ante.
Speaker 9 (42:14):
How can you tell when someone's pretending to be mentally ill?
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Well, as we've seen in some of these videos, they're
taking too long to answer, They're trying to build a story,
and often you know they're doing it a little ineptaline,
so it just doesn't quite ring true with what they're presenting.
Speaker 5 (42:29):
They've seen movies, they've read about it, They've no role
played in front of a mirror. They've rehearsed at this moment,
but at the end of the day at all unravels
because they're not genuine. People are genuine, and their insanity
it's quite obvious, and they stick to the script, and
they're very sad people in these situations.
Speaker 9 (42:53):
What's the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath None
at all.
Speaker 5 (42:56):
In fact, they're now referred to as people who suffer
an anti social personality disorder. I like the term psychopath.
It's on a matter of page, it's gutfall. It sounds
like what it is. But the common theme is that
these people have no empathy, no remorse. They know what
they're doing, they're cunning, they're calculating, and the thing that
(43:22):
tends to control on the most is the love of money.
What is a narcissist, Well, a narcissist is someone who
puts their needs above the needs of all others. Are
(43:42):
narcissists more likely to commit crimes? Well, there's a lot
of narcissists who occupy boardrooms, a lot of narcissists in politics,
and they're quite successful people. They might be social criminals,
but they're not breaking the criminal code.
Speaker 8 (43:59):
They're so entire rules of other people.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
You know, they're walking egos. But they're also very fragile.
So if you challenge them, this is a serious affront
to analysis. It's like, how dare you challenge me?
Speaker 9 (44:11):
You minion.
Speaker 5 (44:13):
They all like to control, you know. They get their
sense of power through controlling others.
Speaker 9 (44:24):
The final tape I want to show you is Ivan
Malatt's final police interrogation, just days before he died from
cancer in jail, where police are desperately trying to get
him to admit to his other murders. Give them some
clues as to where others might be buried. Now, the
evil killer holds the line until the very end.
Speaker 13 (44:42):
Have a look at them, get in a bit of
a chat to see whether we can chat any light.
Speaker 6 (44:47):
Maybe looking looking around.
Speaker 13 (44:51):
Get a bit of closure or for some families out there.
Speaker 8 (44:57):
How do you feel about that? I'm yeah, okay, yeah,
that's breath.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
I'm just tapping you because I don't know if you're
asleep or awake.
Speaker 10 (45:07):
I don't want to keep.
Speaker 13 (45:08):
Banging you on the arm or do.
Speaker 22 (45:10):
I don't believe anyone is so the will of decency
that they would take to the grave. I know each
and location of people's loved ones.
Speaker 5 (45:24):
How disrespectful.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
You feeling?
Speaker 4 (45:27):
Okay, he's I think he's been sleeping respective so we're
just giving him a little shame.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
He doesn't brainy, You're right, you.
Speaker 22 (45:41):
Know, over my Lad with everything that's been written about him,
everything's been in said about him.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
Even all over my Lad has a family.
Speaker 13 (45:50):
Over my Lad has a daughter.
Speaker 8 (45:56):
I think you've got some strong thoughts about that.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Wow, it's just so disrespectful, isn't it. Like to me,
it looks like he's pretending sleep. He's looking around. He
has no intention of sharing any of his his other
crimes with the police and giving any of those families
any kind of closures, no comfort at all for them.
Speaker 5 (46:14):
Well, it's again, I mean, my Lad was very much
about control and he wants to go to the grave
knowing that he controlled play right until his last breath.
M Ladd again was only interested about Malad and his legacy,
evil as it is.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
He probably would have enjoyed being in the limelight one
last time, though, because that's what he craved.
Speaker 9 (46:36):
So that sarde he loved, oh for sure, and he
would have loved seeding on that in some way.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
Yeah, he would have loved the attention in the media,
everyone talking about him, people coming to interview him and
not telling them what they wanted to know.
Speaker 13 (46:48):
Yeah, if you've got wonder, they just sparn your body
or in you and there's talking the paper.
Speaker 8 (46:52):
I don't know how true it is.
Speaker 13 (46:53):
You're ready going to heaven, You're going to You're going
to leave someone to get a foot the door.
Speaker 8 (46:57):
To him, Tim. Are some people just evil?
Speaker 5 (47:03):
Sadly, Michael, some people are just evil and they won't change.
They just can't help themselves and.
Speaker 8 (47:11):
They will take whatever they know to their grades and beyond.
Speaker 5 (47:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
I never thought I believe in evil, and then I'm
at IVANH.
Seventeen people dead.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
So this is as close as we're going to get
to what really happened.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
To be in the room with the murderer.
Speaker 4 (00:16):
You've got to be measured, you've got to be in control.
Speaker 5 (00:19):
I'm Tim Watson Monroe. For the past four decades, I've
peered inside the minds of some of the most depraved
murderers in Australia and I overseas, and tonight I'm going
to tell you what I see twice, what triggered him
on that day.
Speaker 6 (00:38):
It's a thrill coil.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I'm doctor Xanthony Mannett. I dissect the behavior of the
people who commit the most serious crimes, and tonight I'm
going to show you what we do when analyzing the psychopaths,
sociopaths and narcissists.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
The months premeditation, the planning.
Speaker 7 (00:56):
So unbelievably powerful, true, I.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Think he wants to be welcomes no empathy, no remorse,
the first time they've been challenged, the first time they've
been put on the spot.
Speaker 8 (01:08):
And I'm Michael Lusher.
Speaker 9 (01:10):
Usually the public only ever sees a short snippet of
a recorded police interview, if that, But tonight we're going
to break down the interrogations and the confessions of the
worst of the worst. It is a fascinating insight into
the deadly games they play and the intricate tricks used
to catch them out. Poison candy, total.
Speaker 5 (01:31):
Madness, excruciating detail.
Speaker 8 (01:34):
The devil that is showing.
Speaker 10 (01:40):
Bills in your time.
Speaker 9 (01:45):
What you're about to watch could be a movie, but
incredibly it is a true story. It has all the
elements of a Hollywood true crime drama in Florida, a
higher escort turned murderous wife, a complex and dramatic police operation,
and recorded video of a young newlywed hiring a hitman
to murder her new husband. That is the incredible true
(02:08):
story of the attempted murder of Mike Dippolito by his
beautiful wife Dahlia. On the fourth of October two thousand
(02:30):
and nine, as the sun began to set over Boynton
Beach in Florida, thirty eight year old entrepreneur Michael Dippolito,
whose wife was out of town, decided to hire an
escort for the night.
Speaker 8 (02:43):
Thirty five minutes.
Speaker 9 (02:44):
Later, twenty six year old Dahlia Muhammad showed up. Just
two weeks after their first acquaintance, Michael filed for divorce
from his wife of seven years, and proposed to Dahlia
with a twenty thousand dollar engagement ring. She said yes.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
After one night stand with a prostitute, he falls in
love and then leaves his wife. And I'm sure she
was in character at that point, and then when she's
got a hooks into him, the real heir comes out.
The evil her h.
Speaker 11 (03:30):
Hear you, I'll target some stuff I have to wear an.
Speaker 10 (03:38):
Tell you I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 12 (03:40):
And what is that?
Speaker 11 (03:44):
And how if you got recommendation?
Speaker 13 (03:47):
You know what you want? What you know about?
Speaker 10 (03:49):
Who is your husband? Her words coming.
Speaker 11 (03:52):
Up in that.
Speaker 10 (03:55):
Oh realk a the days, you know, after I talked
to the baby.
Speaker 11 (03:58):
You know there's ball gardens and I don't do to
get home. I just want to make sure that you
know just what's.
Speaker 13 (04:05):
Normal, okay, because you know.
Speaker 11 (04:08):
I mean our world. I'm doing my dual favor any
non's and I'm Lobo the pace, you know what I mean.
So I just want to make sure that you know
just what's you want a right to do?
Speaker 14 (04:23):
We really have, you know, I had thought it'd be
at last, you know, Philaelphia.
Speaker 9 (04:35):
This would be the first of a total fifteen times
that Dahlia would look directly into the hidden camera. Not
only is she being secretly filmed, but her hired gun
is a cop pretending to be a contract killer.
Speaker 6 (04:54):
I was a little shocked because I didn't think she
was going to be that open.
Speaker 8 (04:58):
So I came here pretty much in this.
Speaker 9 (05:00):
Example spot right here, there's a lot quote on camera here,
let's have a little bit more of a look at
Dahli or on a hidden camera, and.
Speaker 14 (05:16):
We got everything more.
Speaker 8 (05:17):
Well, let's it's up to you.
Speaker 15 (05:19):
I mean I do like that's being like my understanding
of everything life is that, like you know, I was,
I was gonna give you what I gave you, and
then that was.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
That everything I do.
Speaker 14 (05:36):
Until after the back, and then after the back, I
guess you we're gonna come and like find you or whatever.
Speaker 13 (05:41):
I mean, I'm good for Like it's.
Speaker 14 (05:42):
Not like I don't have it saying.
Speaker 13 (05:44):
I mean, I know not to put.
Speaker 14 (05:46):
Around with you, you know certain things whatever, like you
know what I mean, Like you obviously know where I'm at.
Speaker 11 (05:52):
Well, I'll well, you're a pressure.
Speaker 14 (05:55):
Because I don't want no, I'm not gonna you know,
I'm a lot pupper than what I love and I know.
Speaker 9 (06:11):
I'm tougher than what I. Look, what on earth is
going on here?
Speaker 5 (06:14):
Well, she's a psychopath and it's extraordinary footage.
Speaker 8 (06:18):
The police are.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
Reeling her in, but she's reeling in the under the
undercover guy thinking that he's a hip man. She's a
narcissist and cold blooded, calculating cruel She's more concerned about
her image than the fact that she's going to have
her husband killed. Zanthe.
Speaker 9 (06:35):
She's plotting, as Tim said, to kill her husband here
in part of that there you get some idea of
her personality. She's flattered when he praises her. I'm tougher
than I.
Speaker 10 (06:44):
Look.
Speaker 8 (06:44):
What do you make of Dahlia?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Well, she's definitely playing a role, isn't she the kind
of the little girl? But also, as you say, you know,
what she's doing is plotting kill her husband, but she's
kind of playing both off together, flirting with him whilst plotting.
Speaker 6 (06:56):
To murder someone.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
It's it's really quite extraordinary to it.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
But she's covering her tracks. You know, she doesn't want
an emails. She's haggling over money and she's very clear
on what her objectives are. So underneath that Veneer of
niceness and little girl, you've got a calculating, narcissistic psychopath.
Speaker 9 (07:14):
To understand her motive for murder, let's rewind. In public,
Dahlia played the role of loving wife, but in private,
she wanted out of her quick fire marriage. Her initial
plan was to frame her husband Michael as a drug
(07:36):
dealer with an existing criminal record. He'd go to jail
and she'd be free.
Speaker 7 (07:42):
She's the sociopath next door, and she's willing to do
anything to get what she wants. She wanted this lifestyle
that she thought that Mike deep Deplito could offer her.
She saw him as a target from the very beginning.
She thought this was a quick, easy one too. Let
me marry him and he'll be gone.
Speaker 16 (08:04):
Before you know.
Speaker 9 (08:06):
Dahlia allegedly planted drugs in his car and anonymously called
the police. When Michael became suspicious, she diverted his attention
by telling him she was pregnant. He was ecstatic she
was lying. Next, she contacted her ex lover Mike Stanley,
(08:27):
a guy she had dumped on three separate occasions, yet
managed to reel him back in with a single text.
She got Mike to pose as a lawyer ring her
husband and give him the misleading legal advice that to
resolve his problems with the police, he needed to transfer
(08:49):
his house into his wife's name. Astonishingly, Michael agreed. Dahlia
then turned to another ex lover, Mohammed Shahidi, and asked
him to hire a hitman to kill her husband. Mohammed
told the police, and they move mountains to trap Darlien.
Speaker 11 (09:09):
Which is why I said that are between now and
when it's done. You know, you neither have an out
of change your money, but if you change your mind
top in.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Order, it's not changing now.
Speaker 6 (09:18):
There's no like.
Speaker 15 (09:22):
Like play down to show.
Speaker 9 (09:24):
Yeah, let's back this up a minute here, five thousand
percent shaws Anty.
Speaker 8 (09:28):
She's saying, this is quite extraordinary.
Speaker 12 (09:30):
It is.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I mean, she's saying, I'm not going back.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
You know, she's made up her mind, hasn't she And
she's still doing it in that kind of little girl voice.
It's it's incredible to watch the manipulation.
Speaker 5 (09:39):
That's a play here, the grandiosity of the narcissist to
five one hundred percent, five thousand percent. She's haggling over
this fee when she stands to make a lot of
money out of his death. He's already signed over the house,
and when he dies, she's going to inherit a lot
more money.
Speaker 10 (09:56):
And yet you know.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
She's a pound wire and penny foolish.
Speaker 11 (10:00):
Really, there's a lot of stuff I got to do
that's gonna.
Speaker 13 (10:04):
Cost me a lot of money.
Speaker 14 (10:05):
How to be good like at the house, like how
to be hod of bought up?
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Soon?
Speaker 5 (10:09):
Could you do it?
Speaker 11 (10:10):
And I'll do it Wednesday morning. It's gonna be like
op breaking to the house.
Speaker 10 (10:14):
You know, didn't think it was gonna be home because.
Speaker 13 (10:15):
Everybody works in the daytime.
Speaker 11 (10:17):
I want to take he's at work.
Speaker 13 (10:18):
When he's not at work.
Speaker 11 (10:19):
Then you know he gets to in the head that said,
you know, I take a couple of things with me,
fix a couple of windows and make it look like
a robbery that.
Speaker 13 (10:25):
Went bad, and so all over.
Speaker 16 (10:26):
I'm gone out of there.
Speaker 14 (10:29):
Around six thirty seven o'clock.
Speaker 16 (10:31):
You always locked the dog.
Speaker 14 (10:32):
In the morning, okay, and walk the dog across like
over where the lake is, and our doors always a lock.
Speaker 11 (10:38):
I'll be in their house bus six thirty Wednesday morning
at six o'clock, I will lash.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
I guess you're here.
Speaker 13 (10:48):
From all right?
Speaker 9 (10:50):
Thanks Donlia left her car, believing her husband would be murdered.
Two days later, at five point fifty three on Wednesday morning,
she went to the gym as ordered. Police then knocked
on the door and gave her husband the chilling news
of his wife's intentions before whisking him away. One hour later,
(11:12):
Darli was called back to the house by a sergeant.
Everything about the crime scene was fake, except for the
news camera, which captured the entire incident.
Speaker 10 (11:24):
I'm Sergeant Ramsey.
Speaker 8 (11:25):
I'm not going to call you. Thank you for comment.
Speaker 16 (11:27):
I'm sorry to call you.
Speaker 6 (11:28):
Listen.
Speaker 16 (11:28):
We had a reported a disturbance at your house and
there were shots fired as your husband, Michael Okay.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
I'm sorry to tell you man.
Speaker 8 (11:35):
He's been killed. He's been killed.
Speaker 16 (11:42):
Trying to comsten right now.
Speaker 8 (11:45):
We need to.
Speaker 6 (11:49):
I can't look at man.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
We have to do our job.
Speaker 16 (11:51):
If you want the finest killer, we need you to
calm that need yous Okay is your enemy? Is there
anyone that would want to hurt Okay?
Speaker 5 (12:02):
Who would want to hurt him?
Speaker 16 (12:04):
Witnesses said he saw a black mail.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
Running from me.
Speaker 10 (12:06):
I can't let you see him theam maam.
Speaker 16 (12:08):
I cannot do this right now.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
It's incredible to watch the manipulation that's to play here.
Speaker 8 (12:18):
I need you to take it to the station.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
I can't probably done it in front of a mirror
many many times preparing for that moment.
Speaker 8 (12:27):
Go with these detectives.
Speaker 16 (12:28):
If you want to help your husband, okay, if you
want to help your husband, you need to go to
the station with these gentlemen and tell us everything you
know about who he knows, who is connected to. Don't worry,
we've already taken care of dogs with animal control for
right now. Everything's under control, and we'll take care of
everything else.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
Okay, thank you guys.
Speaker 9 (12:51):
Now, detectives know the police record of interview is going
to be crucial in Dahlia's trial. Remember Dahlia's still playing
the part of a woman who believes her husband's just
been shot. Police officers have to play along to get
as much evidence as possible.
Speaker 12 (13:08):
Pull the call that we have to do with this
that you a way They got also rates, so you know, okay,
if you don't understand any of you, just tell me
and I'll stop and repeat it.
Speaker 10 (13:19):
First of all, let me just tell you I'm sorry
for your loss.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
The police interview is fantastic isn't he really kind? Applies
a lot of violin in many ways.
Speaker 17 (13:36):
I don't want to say that, you don't. I don't
know if you know he was shot, you shot twice.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
What they need is to make sure their case is
water tight. So they have to play along to the
point where they've got enough evidence to take this to
court and be successful in the conviction and pull that
moment on her bounce moment when they really shot her.
Speaker 17 (14:02):
Right now, I'm gonna go out and get in touch
with the ulcers in the scene. I wanna see if
the house was purgorized.
Speaker 13 (14:07):
Are you on the second.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Hondy call out there and.
Speaker 10 (14:15):
Play with Bergalize, take care you have to play that.
Speaker 12 (14:19):
How plent some water?
Speaker 10 (14:36):
As you know that advisor? Your rights?
Speaker 17 (14:38):
Right?
Speaker 10 (14:40):
Okay, the game's over with. Okay, there's no more games
with you and I. Now we're gonna get down to
serious business. I want to know if you know this guy,
come here, bring this guy in here, get over here,
get over here. You know who this guy is, you've
(15:00):
never seen him before before?
Speaker 8 (15:04):
That is a classic gotcha.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, it's brilliant, brilliantly done.
Speaker 9 (15:07):
Hard one though, because everyone has to stay in character
including the undercover cop who's playing the hitman.
Speaker 11 (15:13):
Do you know her?
Speaker 10 (15:15):
What's your head up? And look at what's your head up?
I've never seen what were you doing coming out of
her house? Whom here?
Speaker 5 (15:32):
It's at that point you can see the little switch
in her head going in another direction, thinking, oh, I'm
really blowing it here.
Speaker 8 (15:40):
She's scrambling for which personality to play.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, what do I do?
Speaker 17 (15:42):
Now?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
We know that truth, so.
Speaker 10 (15:48):
I know that's why I.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Commit to that. Pews your time.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
She's going to stick to her story whatever comes.
Speaker 9 (16:00):
Darlia continues to play her role and never breaks character,
not even when police try and shock her by having
her supposedly dead husband stand in the doorway.
Speaker 13 (16:14):
Oh my god, who's why came you here?
Speaker 12 (16:17):
Please come here?
Speaker 5 (16:20):
They come here?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Come here, come here?
Speaker 10 (16:25):
Why come here?
Speaker 5 (16:29):
Please come here?
Speaker 10 (16:31):
Okay, we'll take back both clips.
Speaker 9 (16:35):
Wow wow, my right in saying a true trait of
narcissists or narcissism is they never concede error, They never
give in.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
They never give in, and they gaslight so they reshape
your reality to suit their reality.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
The video is not gonna lie you so like a
fool right now then.
Speaker 10 (17:00):
Because.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
Their po face lies, and they'll tell you black is
white all day long, and you come to believe it,
if you're vulnerable enough that black.
Speaker 13 (17:11):
Is whiteble.
Speaker 6 (17:15):
Yeah, I can't help you.
Speaker 9 (17:24):
Think anyone to have you kill her that.
Speaker 6 (17:34):
How can you bother that.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
She's a master at there. She has been doing this
her whole life, and she is used to the majority
of people falling for it, and she will surround herself
by people who will go along with this and will
give her.
Speaker 6 (17:49):
What she needs.
Speaker 9 (17:51):
Well, a crime like Dahlia's is a once in a
lifetime opportunity for a criminal.
Speaker 8 (17:55):
Prosecutor. Liz Parker took on the case.
Speaker 7 (18:01):
Dahlia was a woman who, at a very young age,
learned that she could use her sexuality to get men
to do whatever she wanted.
Speaker 9 (18:11):
This sort of person's often been described as what we
described here as a black widow, like a black widow spider.
Speaker 7 (18:17):
In fact, I described her as poison candy, where she
was attractive on the outside but deadly on the inside.
Speaker 9 (18:26):
In April twenty eleven, Dahlia went to trial. Her defense
was bizarre. Her lawyers claimed Michael Dippolito was a fan
of reality TV and the murder for higher plot was
a hoax just so he could get on television.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
I'm just having come on with you with.
Speaker 10 (18:47):
Is this this sucks?
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Okay?
Speaker 6 (18:52):
Let me just start off by saying, you know, when
I married my wife, I was very much in love.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
With her and I thought we were doing things that
normal matters people.
Speaker 10 (19:01):
Do and that was a very good husband.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
I mean, this girl doesn't feel sorry friending.
Speaker 10 (19:06):
She still doesn't think she did anything.
Speaker 9 (19:08):
Dahlia was found guilty.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And I'm setting from you to twenty years in the
Department of Corrections.
Speaker 9 (19:13):
But one month later the verdict was overturned on a technicality.
Two more trials would follow, during which time Dahlia gave
this TV interview.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
Who is Dahlia to belt it?
Speaker 6 (19:26):
Understanding?
Speaker 9 (19:28):
Sweet and compassionate?
Speaker 12 (19:31):
You got everything all up to you.
Speaker 14 (19:37):
I'm partited like thousand.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
You were acting in those tapes.
Speaker 8 (19:42):
Yes, but you're telling the truth now. Yes?
Speaker 4 (19:45):
Why should we believe you?
Speaker 6 (19:46):
If it's what happened, it's the truth.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
She's now had a bit of time to try to
get a story more in line with a fantasy, and
she thinks.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
She can still manipulate her way out of this.
Speaker 8 (20:00):
But she couldn't.
Speaker 10 (20:02):
We the jury find as follow us as to count one.
Speaker 11 (20:05):
We find the defendant guilty of solicitation to commit first
degree murders as charged in the information.
Speaker 9 (20:12):
On July twenty one, twenty seventeen, Dahlia Dippolito was sentenced
to sixteen years in prison without parole.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
I guess I'm just doing a real art time understanding.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
Why he's a monster.
Speaker 9 (20:42):
Is this man criminally insane or is it just a
very convincing act?
Speaker 8 (20:52):
Okay?
Speaker 11 (20:52):
Really, he.
Speaker 6 (20:56):
Definitely has delusions of grandeur. Thanks that he is God,
and on the chessboard of life, my son was upon
and he outloved his usefulness.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
My name is under sure. J. T.
Speaker 18 (21:22):
Harmer mean you met on Sara Harland once only served
in about scendro and about three twelve this one didn't.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
We yes, sir okay, And that you made a couple
of statements to me insummation that I'm giving us of
what a murder?
Speaker 19 (21:40):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (21:40):
And who did you murder? Genera?
Speaker 9 (21:48):
This case is completely baffling in its violence and really
just total madness. In twenty twelve, Jared Murray asked a
college door mate, Gennaro Sanchez, to drive him to a
nearby supermarket, but instead of picking up supplies. Jared Murray
shot Gennaro dead in one of the strangest thrill killings
the sheriff's team has ever seen.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
How did you murder him?
Speaker 11 (22:13):
With a gun?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Hashiman the head twice? Three shots were fired, one nest.
Speaker 9 (22:19):
So, when this interrogation was played on YouTube by the
JCS Psychology under the heading what pretending to be crazy
looks like? It clocked up sixty million views. People just
couldn't believe it, as we have not been able to
believe it watching it. Now, watch this next section very closely.
This Oklahoma sheriff is trying to get Jared Murray on tape,
(22:39):
saying he'd planned his college doormates execution that'll give prosecutors
every chance of convicting him of murder. Otherwise, he knows
that almost certainly he'll be found not guilty by reason
of insanity. Everything he says to Jared Murray is important
from here on in.
Speaker 8 (22:57):
So take a look.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
How did you guys?
Speaker 20 (23:02):
I went down to his dorm room and asked if
I could be given around to Walmart in exchange for
twenty dollars gas money?
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Did you agree to that, yes, sir? And did he
prot take you a walmart. Yes, sir, we got his
big up trick and he drove me to walk. So
you talk about the war wart later, Yes, sir?
Speaker 10 (23:22):
Did you both do in?
Speaker 3 (23:23):
No, he did not go in, sir, and w We
pulled into the parking lot.
Speaker 20 (23:27):
Then I pulled the weapon on him and demanded that
he take me to Asher a closer I wanted.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Did all of a sudden, did you decide you need
to go to.
Speaker 20 (23:35):
Asher because I was planning to take him out into
the country and kill him.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
Okay, well, it's all considered. The difficult questions. He pauses
and call complates his answer because he's trying to keep
control of the process. Again, you don't get this with
people who are insane or out of touch with reality.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
He does have to you the sorry, Yeah, so you just.
Speaker 18 (24:19):
Can you cat tell me when you made this decision
that you was gonna take him and kill Why?
Speaker 21 (24:27):
Uh I ned decision three days prior to the incident.
Uh I attempted it two days prior to the incident,
but he was not in his room and did so
today as he was in his room.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
All I'm seeing here is premeditation five days before he
selects the victim two days before he has a crack,
but he's not there, and he goes into excruciating detail
about what he did and why he did it and
why him all the.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Kids and followed your on you. I believed that he
would have had the least impact, sir, an impact.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Of what.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
I believed.
Speaker 13 (25:08):
He didn't have many friends or many close friends.
Speaker 20 (25:11):
I should preferres and as his as he's going missing,
his absence would be less notable.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
I mean, most people who are crazy, if we can
use that term, are generally disorganized. This guy is very organized.
He's organized a firearm, he's organized the victim, he's set
up the ambush.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
He's thought about it, fantasized about it for a long time,
planned it in minute detail, carried it out, planned to
get away with it. You know, I just don't see
insanity here at all, obviously, you know, frightening in his approach,
but not insane.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
When you told horror in a mine, yes, what did
you tell him? I told him to take me to
that as sure as sure?
Speaker 11 (26:06):
And did he say, uh?
Speaker 3 (26:09):
He wanted to pull out his phone.
Speaker 20 (26:12):
I ated the phone out of his hand, and then
he added some more, can't telling me not to kill
him to.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Make him feel more comfortable. I unloaded the clip, unloaded the.
Speaker 20 (26:21):
Bullet from the chamber, and then over to him, and
that east his nerves a little.
Speaker 6 (26:28):
My son, for thirty five forty five minutes begged for
his life. And every time that he would do that,
Jared would take the clip out of the gun and
would hand him a bullet to calm him down. He
did that the entire drive until he got ready to
kill him.
Speaker 13 (26:55):
Then I pulled a second clip out of my pocket
and sat it on my lap.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
I'll tell you what happened. I loaded the gun quickly,
chambered around, quickly, shot at once.
Speaker 8 (27:05):
Missed, shot at second time.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
It jumped out of the car, went around. He was
driving ten fifteen miles an hour.
Speaker 13 (27:11):
So it was rather slow.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Ran around the hood of the carl, and of course
it was slow, and he wasn't purposely driving.
Speaker 21 (27:19):
Tried to pull him out, couldn't get him out until
he already had hit the tree. Pulled him out there,
dumped him into the now before I uned him into
the ditch, I heard.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Him out gurgling.
Speaker 6 (27:30):
He heard him making gurgling noises, and so he shot
him the third time in the head again and rolled
him down the ditch and covered him with leaves and twigs.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
He was gurgling, so I shot him again and then shut.
Speaker 8 (27:50):
Him down in the ditch.
Speaker 6 (27:59):
He was born the seventh, nineteen ninety four, and he
was a good little boy. He was my goof ball.
He was my drama king. He was an ab student,
more a's than B. So you know, he was really smart,
but dumb as a box of rocks. The kid had
(28:21):
no common sense whatsoever, but he loved everybody, and everybody
loved him. I get this message, so I call Here's County,
the Sheriff's office, and they were like, well, ma'am, we
hate to be the one to tell you this, but
your son was murdered. He was an innocent bystandard, but
(28:45):
he was murdered. My legs just gave out. I just
collapsed and just started screaming.
Speaker 5 (28:59):
You're all right, you.
Speaker 18 (29:00):
Get piss point bright, because I mean you you sat
here and confessor pretty much in my mind, and I
think you might agree with miss Cole Bradley killed him
on that.
Speaker 10 (29:13):
Yes, all right?
Speaker 3 (29:13):
So have you have you killed anybody else? Yes, sir,
I know I've never armed. I'm understanding.
Speaker 8 (29:25):
Well, you got out of it?
Speaker 10 (29:28):
Can you can you?
Speaker 8 (29:29):
Can you help me?
Speaker 3 (29:32):
I don't really get anything out of it. Do you
feel any remorse?
Speaker 13 (29:41):
I'm sad that I got caught so quickly.
Speaker 9 (29:53):
Are we looking at a potential serial killer stopped in
his path here?
Speaker 10 (29:57):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (29:58):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (30:00):
How would you describe it?
Speaker 5 (30:01):
Cold?
Speaker 6 (30:03):
Very cold, calculating. I think that he was just setting
back to see what he could say and get away with.
Speaker 9 (30:14):
There's almost an arrogance whor a matter of fact about
him as well, isn't it the way he presents him?
Speaker 19 (30:18):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (30:19):
Yes, he's very narcissistic. He's just he's a monster. He's
a psychopath. I think that he's just dead. I think
that he's just dead inside.
Speaker 8 (30:36):
Do you believe Jared Murray's insane?
Speaker 6 (30:38):
Heck, now, he's not. He's not insane.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
She's articulated everything I think about this black He's a psychopath.
No remorse, He's not crazy. He knew what he was doing.
She described him as the devil. I would say, as
a person that would have gone on and kept killing
until he was caught.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Now, that lack of any sense emotional connection with what's
going on, I mean, if he watched that interview, he
wouldn't care he has no regard for the pain that
he causes others.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
I think he'd be emboldened by It's more attention, you
see what these people thrive on his attention and keeping
the story alive, so he would possibly revel in her
pain too.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
You know, you know a general thing to know? Yes, sir,
you kill a young man? Yes, sir, just for the
simple fact I guess pretty much is to say for you, Yes, sir,
what do you think she happened to you? Death sentence?
Speaker 10 (31:47):
Sir?
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Why do you think he deserves? And an answer?
Speaker 10 (31:55):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 9 (31:59):
Astonishingly, Jared Murray was found not guilty by reason of insanity.
He avoided the death penalty and is now in a
high security mental facility.
Speaker 6 (32:15):
It makes me very angry.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Anything to say for yourself today?
Speaker 6 (32:20):
He murdered my son and got away with it.
Speaker 13 (32:22):
Any reason why you might have done this this young man?
Speaker 2 (32:25):
No reason.
Speaker 15 (32:27):
You have nothing to say for yourself.
Speaker 22 (32:29):
Do you want to tell the community anything?
Speaker 6 (32:32):
Did you confess the police?
Speaker 20 (32:34):
Are you proud of what you've done?
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Do you have remorse for what you've done?
Speaker 8 (32:48):
It makes me angry, fearful for others once he's released.
Speaker 6 (32:52):
Yes, yes, because anything could make him snap and he
could easily kill. He's had to taste of blood and
he likes it.
Speaker 22 (33:13):
All.
Speaker 13 (33:13):
Right, Are you not obliged to say or to do anything?
Speaker 5 (33:17):
Nless you wish any you say or do with it
recorded electronically on DVD.
Speaker 13 (33:22):
Is he who takes place and maybe use evidence? Do
you understand that?
Speaker 10 (33:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 9 (33:28):
At this point in this show, I decided to call
in an old friend and police contact, because if anyone
knows about the secrets.
Speaker 8 (33:36):
Of the interview room, it is Nick Calvis a pleasure.
Speaker 9 (33:43):
He was a decorated police officer, rising to the rank
of deputy commissioner.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
I'm fender refire from a police for a batter thirty
four years.
Speaker 9 (33:51):
A respected cop, a man who's seen it all and
seen through the more.
Speaker 20 (33:57):
And you understand that the reason that you're under arrest
is in relation to a murder investigation.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Well, they're not seeing too.
Speaker 8 (34:04):
I speak to my lawyer take one.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
Some people I don't know where it's just the presence
of the camera or what it is, but they just
they let it all out.
Speaker 8 (34:17):
They just want to talk.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
And it wasn't the end of the world. We all
thought we'd never get another confession.
Speaker 20 (34:25):
Did I did?
Speaker 4 (34:27):
We tell the public the minimum stuff. They see very
little and they don't understand a lot of what happens.
Speaker 8 (34:32):
I think this name.
Speaker 13 (34:35):
It's funny.
Speaker 8 (34:36):
It is funny.
Speaker 9 (34:37):
How crucial is a police recorded interview?
Speaker 8 (34:41):
A record of interview is really important?
Speaker 9 (34:44):
Did they appear to be dead when you're the one
that fell back on the road?
Speaker 10 (34:48):
Wasn't what happened?
Speaker 9 (34:49):
Then I let off.
Speaker 8 (34:50):
Another two rounds? Well, like purpose finish off.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
It's more often than not, the interview is the the
piece of evidence that can swing the case.
Speaker 11 (35:00):
That's more import You didn't have to keep telling me, okay,
I know that you.
Speaker 20 (35:05):
Was your ma care when it happened.
Speaker 10 (35:06):
Do you think I feel about that?
Speaker 4 (35:08):
It's a culmination of any investigation that you may have
been going on for months, sometimes years, and then finally
you know that the final phase is usually the interview.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
What was your ultimate goal?
Speaker 11 (35:19):
Kill that.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
I was going to butcher them?
Speaker 13 (35:22):
Yeah, but when you say that, you mean that you
were going to kill?
Speaker 10 (35:26):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (35:27):
That was that?
Speaker 20 (35:28):
When?
Speaker 10 (35:28):
Is that normal?
Speaker 3 (35:29):
And column normal?
Speaker 8 (35:31):
You're going to get butchered? You've got to be listening.
You have definitely you don't know what that person to
a chair is going to say.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
Active listening is really important, as they call it, and
it's about perhaps not saying anything, but being very active
in the conversation by taking in everything, analyzing it while
it's being said, and then reacting to it when when
the time is right.
Speaker 10 (35:53):
Okay, now you know, you're just acting like that because.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
We'll relax.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
You're just acting like that because I'm making sense down
I'm making sense, and you don't like when it makes sense.
Speaker 9 (36:08):
So when the video recording a Beauty Views came in,
there was a fear that people would clam up, they
wouldn't tell you another thing ever again.
Speaker 8 (36:13):
Exactly that's what everybody thought would happen. The opposite is true,
the opposite. Yeah, and explain that. I really can't.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
I'm not a psychologist, but what I something about human
nature and those who have been involved in criminal activity
when they get in front of the camera, certainly some
of them war mass feel as if they're gloating about.
Speaker 8 (36:29):
What they've done.
Speaker 13 (36:30):
Do you agree you've got an amount of blow on
both of your hands?
Speaker 10 (36:32):
Yeah? Yeah, more more, and you're right in okay, is
that your blood.
Speaker 8 (36:37):
Could be all free? Don't?
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Okay?
Speaker 8 (36:40):
Probably all free.
Speaker 9 (36:42):
What if you're sitting across the desk from an outright liar.
Speaker 8 (36:45):
You know that they're not telling you the truth. How
do you handle it?
Speaker 4 (36:48):
There's they say, if you can't control yourself, how can
you control anyone else? And that's really relevant for cops
because you have to be You can confront them with
a lie, but you can do it the way I'm
talking that scream and yell it doesn't help.
Speaker 9 (37:03):
Because what strikes me in a lot of the police
interviews that we now see, and we're going to see
a few of them, is a very patient, methodical process,
certainly not what we're used to seeing in.
Speaker 8 (37:15):
Films and dramas and things like that.
Speaker 9 (37:17):
It's a very thought out, structured way of interviewing, isn't
it It.
Speaker 8 (37:22):
Is, and it works much better than anything else, violence
or anything else. You can't do that anymore. Back in
the day a bit of that I've heard about that.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
The thing is, if you act in a way that
is unfair to the person, not only will it not
help your case, but you could have it all thrown out,
which is not what detectives want.
Speaker 8 (37:44):
Obviously. They want to make sure that whatever they get
out of him sticks.
Speaker 4 (37:48):
More often than not, you get to a point where
the person being interviewed realizes the game is up.
Speaker 8 (38:03):
Sometimes there's people who want to splur.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
You just get it all out, and you get the
odd occasion, very very rarely where someone's actually lying and
they didn't do anything, but they want to take the blame.
Speaker 8 (38:13):
That has happened as well.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
It has It's bizarre what psychology is that. I'm not
a psychologist, but I described them in a very technical
term as nuts.
Speaker 19 (38:22):
It is the Barbieries President Putam Australia.
Speaker 9 (38:28):
Let's talk about Fiona Barbieri. This is a case that
was a bit personal for you. That was one of
the toughest days in the police. I had the victim,
Bryce and Anderson was a terrific fellow. Nearly everyone in
the hierarchy worked with him at some stage.
Speaker 10 (38:42):
We love you, You will be in our hearts forever.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
He got to the rank of inspector at a young age.
I think he had a very bright future ahead of him.
Just a tragic, tragic case. What happened that day They
turned up for a complaint from neighbors and domestic violence
and so on. And from what I recall Bryson himself
and his workmates, we're actually wearing vests will prove vests,
(39:07):
but it doesn't stop you being stabbed in the neck.
Speaker 9 (39:09):
Let's have a look at Fiona Barbier and we do
I want to be.
Speaker 19 (39:12):
Interviewed until we are we are dealing with people from
a country of whom we can trust. We are living
here and Convict Australia cout Convict Australia, and we have
been doing our best to get.
Speaker 8 (39:26):
Out what is going on here. It's nuts, It's just nuts.
It's a state of psychosis of some sort. It's not
doesn't make any sense obviously.
Speaker 9 (39:36):
Now the detectives they're being cool. They are I mean,
any other person would want to lead across the desk
and say, what the hell is going on here?
Speaker 8 (39:43):
Come on?
Speaker 13 (39:44):
Do you understand that you do not have to uner?
You do not have to say or do anything unless
you want to. Do you understand that?
Speaker 17 (39:51):
Yes?
Speaker 20 (39:52):
I do?
Speaker 19 (39:52):
But how come you kit prompting me when I when
I'm telling you up front, I do not want to
participate in this interview. I do nothing personal mate, I
do not wish to speak to you. I do not
wish to speak to you. I am asking to speak
with President Putin of Russia or one of his representatives
who is familiar with the circumstances of what has been
(40:14):
taking place.
Speaker 9 (40:15):
I am going to stop that there. She doesn't want
to talk to the detectives. She wants to talk to
the Russian President Vladimir Putin.
Speaker 8 (40:24):
With whom she can trust what is going on in
this indiation. If I knew that, I'd be a millionaire.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
The bottom line is, I don't think she's all there,
and it's very difficult, it was in this case, to
continue the interview in a sane manner when the person
you're dealing with is clearly.
Speaker 8 (40:44):
Not making any sane statements. It's very difficult.
Speaker 9 (40:49):
If you could put anyone in a chair in an
interview room that you haven't been able to interview yourself,
who would it be?
Speaker 4 (40:54):
Probably the person that kidnapp will live Terror would be
a good start. Yeah, if you were God and you
were able to grab whoever you wanted to ask questions,
it'd be about going back to see unsolved murders that
should have been solved, where people haven't been arrested and
no one's been changed, and the grieving families never get closure.
(41:15):
Sometimes they don't get the body. You can't grieve properly.
You can't go to a grave side and pray for
them or leave flowers. It's all it's just that much harder.
Speaker 10 (41:25):
You're done talking to me, girl.
Speaker 9 (41:38):
I want to find some rapid questions at you guys,
the sorts of things people I guess always wonder about profiling.
Speaker 8 (41:46):
And analyzing criminals and killers.
Speaker 9 (41:53):
Tim How can you tell when someone's lying?
Speaker 5 (41:57):
They tell me the checks in the male, but beyond
that there's certain giveaways. It's what I look for is
eye contact, and you see it in some of those
interviews where they look away.
Speaker 8 (42:13):
X Ante.
Speaker 9 (42:14):
How can you tell when someone's pretending to be mentally ill?
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Well, as we've seen in some of these videos, they're
taking too long to answer, They're trying to build a story,
and often you know they're doing it a little ineptaline,
so it just doesn't quite ring true with what they're presenting.
Speaker 5 (42:29):
They've seen movies, they've read about it, They've no role
played in front of a mirror. They've rehearsed at this moment,
but at the end of the day at all unravels
because they're not genuine. People are genuine, and their insanity
it's quite obvious, and they stick to the script, and
they're very sad people in these situations.
Speaker 9 (42:53):
What's the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath None
at all.
Speaker 5 (42:56):
In fact, they're now referred to as people who suffer
an anti social personality disorder. I like the term psychopath.
It's on a matter of page, it's gutfall. It sounds
like what it is. But the common theme is that
these people have no empathy, no remorse. They know what
they're doing, they're cunning, they're calculating, and the thing that
(43:22):
tends to control on the most is the love of money.
What is a narcissist, Well, a narcissist is someone who
puts their needs above the needs of all others. Are
(43:42):
narcissists more likely to commit crimes? Well, there's a lot
of narcissists who occupy boardrooms, a lot of narcissists in politics,
and they're quite successful people. They might be social criminals,
but they're not breaking the criminal code.
Speaker 8 (43:59):
They're so entire rules of other people.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
You know, they're walking egos. But they're also very fragile.
So if you challenge them, this is a serious affront
to analysis. It's like, how dare you challenge me?
Speaker 9 (44:11):
You minion.
Speaker 5 (44:13):
They all like to control, you know. They get their
sense of power through controlling others.
Speaker 9 (44:24):
The final tape I want to show you is Ivan
Malatt's final police interrogation, just days before he died from
cancer in jail, where police are desperately trying to get
him to admit to his other murders. Give them some
clues as to where others might be buried. Now, the
evil killer holds the line until the very end.
Speaker 13 (44:42):
Have a look at them, get in a bit of
a chat to see whether we can chat any light.
Speaker 6 (44:47):
Maybe looking looking around.
Speaker 13 (44:51):
Get a bit of closure or for some families out there.
Speaker 8 (44:57):
How do you feel about that? I'm yeah, okay, yeah,
that's breath.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
I'm just tapping you because I don't know if you're
asleep or awake.
Speaker 10 (45:07):
I don't want to keep.
Speaker 13 (45:08):
Banging you on the arm or do.
Speaker 22 (45:10):
I don't believe anyone is so the will of decency
that they would take to the grave. I know each
and location of people's loved ones.
Speaker 5 (45:24):
How disrespectful.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
You feeling?
Speaker 4 (45:27):
Okay, he's I think he's been sleeping respective so we're
just giving him a little shame.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
He doesn't brainy, You're right, you.
Speaker 22 (45:41):
Know, over my Lad with everything that's been written about him,
everything's been in said about him.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
Even all over my Lad has a family.
Speaker 13 (45:50):
Over my Lad has a daughter.
Speaker 8 (45:56):
I think you've got some strong thoughts about that.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Wow, it's just so disrespectful, isn't it. Like to me,
it looks like he's pretending sleep. He's looking around. He
has no intention of sharing any of his his other
crimes with the police and giving any of those families
any kind of closures, no comfort at all for them.
Speaker 5 (46:14):
Well, it's again, I mean, my Lad was very much
about control and he wants to go to the grave
knowing that he controlled play right until his last breath.
M Ladd again was only interested about Malad and his legacy,
evil as it is.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
He probably would have enjoyed being in the limelight one
last time, though, because that's what he craved.
Speaker 9 (46:36):
So that sarde he loved, oh for sure, and he
would have loved seeding on that in some way.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
Yeah, he would have loved the attention in the media,
everyone talking about him, people coming to interview him and
not telling them what they wanted to know.
Speaker 13 (46:48):
Yeah, if you've got wonder, they just sparn your body
or in you and there's talking the paper.
Speaker 8 (46:52):
I don't know how true it is.
Speaker 13 (46:53):
You're ready going to heaven, You're going to You're going
to leave someone to get a foot the door.
Speaker 8 (46:57):
To him, Tim. Are some people just evil?
Speaker 5 (47:03):
Sadly, Michael, some people are just evil and they won't change.
They just can't help themselves and.
Speaker 8 (47:11):
They will take whatever they know to their grades and beyond.
Speaker 5 (47:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
I never thought I believe in evil, and then I'm
at IVANH.
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