January 12, 2021 • 31 mins
The Lindy Tapes is a documentary six months in the making. It uncovers stunning new evidence in the now infamous Azaria Chamberlain case. ‘A dingo’s got my baby’- five words that will forever divide a nation. The tragic death of a baby girl in outback Australia that at one point in time became a T-Shirt slogan, a punchline. The trial one of the most publicised in our history. Incredibly, crucial parts of this story were never untold. Now, 40 years after baby Azaria’s disappearance and the greatest miscarriage of justice in Australian criminal history, a major investigation from the 7NEWS Spotlight team unearths the secret police tape recordings never broadcast. In part two of this investigation, journalist Denham Hitchcock looks back at the impact of the trial, speaks to a jury member and uncovers evidence from an Indigenous tracker.
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Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Guilty. Young woman pregnant in the back of a police car,
in utter disbelit.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Headed for a floor by four meters sell in the
women's section of Darwin's beerrima jail.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
How I have.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Found guilty of murdering her baby girl? The whole country
hated her.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Right, she's guilty, or she should stay there for good?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Ah, No matter what, you would certainly have heard this.
Speaker 5 (00:40):
It wasn't time to go and tell people. I just
yelled out as anyone got a talk.
Speaker 6 (00:44):
Dingo's got my baby?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I think you know the Azaria Chamberlain story. I'm sorry,
but you're dined incredibly In the end, the death of
a little girl became a joke.
Speaker 7 (01:00):
You're right away in Australia, a punchline. Okay, I think
I heard dingle eating your baby.
Speaker 8 (01:06):
Yeah, you felt lost, my fiancee, the poor baby.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Maybe the dingo waits your baby thunder?
Speaker 9 (01:18):
I'm sorry you wait your baby?
Speaker 4 (01:20):
You know that's the true story.
Speaker 10 (01:21):
They lost kids.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Lindy Chamberlain would be played by the great Meryl Street.
The baby and how did we get to that? And
how did a jury get it so wrong?
Speaker 11 (01:36):
Help me think I didn't I got my baby? The
emotional impact of the trial appears to be having an
effect on seven months pregnant Missus Lindy Chamberlain and her
pastor husband Michael.
Speaker 7 (01:53):
She was the termined to have another daughter, and that
was the way she was.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
So Lindy at the trial pregnant. How was that viewed?
Speaker 7 (02:04):
That went badly for her? Again, she'd done something wrong
in the eyes of the public. It was almost as
though she was making fun of the judicial system having
another baby while she was on trial for murdering the
previous one.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
The demeanor of Lindy herself did that help or hinder her?
Speaker 7 (02:29):
Unfortunately it went against her. I found out later from
her that she didn't know what to do. If she
was smiling, she'd be taken as someone who wasn't taking
things seriously. And if she put on a stern face,
she was a sour bitch. So she really struggled with that,
and so she just kept the same face on.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
The Chamberlains had a public image problem. It shouldn't have mattered,
but it did. Lindy and Michael were grieving that they
had accepted their loss too quickly.
Speaker 8 (03:03):
The men I know how upset Missus Chaplain was.
Speaker 12 (03:08):
I saw off often both before and during the trial
exhibit signs of real upset. And Michael too, were both
traumatized by it, and to have the trial superimposed on
and the public hostility or skepticism UH made it just
harder for them.
Speaker 13 (03:32):
Mister Barker put directly to missus Chamberlain that she had
taken Azaria to the front seat of the family car
and cut her daughter's throat. Mister Barker said a spray
of Azaria's blood had gone up under the dashboard and
that more blood had flowed down the seat. Missus Chamberlain
began sobbing uncontrollably, and after more questions, said we're talking
about my baby daughter, not some object.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Without a doubt, the evidence from pathologist joy Cool was devastating.
Fetal blood found throughout the Chamberlain's car something Lindy and
Michael could not explain. The locations that it was found on,
Tao scissors, ten cent coin, door, hinge, the carpet, the chammis,
(04:16):
the glovebox, twenty two places in that car, twenty two
places where they found fetal hemoglobin.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
That was the claim, But there was something in the
car curdling their reagents.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Back then Barry Botcher was the key witness for the defense.
You saw a problem with them right from the start.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Right from the start, these are not the results you
would get if you were testing bloodstains from Ataria Chamberlain.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
It was Barry's job to convince the jury the blood
tests were wrong. The jury didn't believe him.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I was probably far too technical for for jury. I
had the feeling that I had let down the Chamberlains.
I really felt that.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
The science behind the prosecution case was deeply flawed, but
to the jury it was compelling. A British expert had
identified a bloodied handprint on the back of Azaria's jumpsuit.
The cuts were made by scissors, not canine teeth, and
the stain around the neck was consistent with a shroke wound.
Add to that, the Chamberlain's car was basically a wash
(05:35):
with Azaria's blood. But there was crucial evidence the jury
never heard, and it came from right here the earth
at Uluru. Local indigenous tribes have lived with dingoes at
Airsrock for thousands of years. Aboriginal trackers were there on
the night Azaria was taken, but not one of them
(05:59):
gave evidence. At the trial. If is this a thing
of track?
Speaker 14 (06:04):
That's thing go on? Can go drag?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
We found this buried in the channel seven volt Where
was the bush?
Speaker 15 (06:12):
Whether baby was put down?
Speaker 14 (06:14):
Yeah, I neven kept out. They pick him up again.
Back then Lindy Kelly. Thing goes kelty of course, because
I've been seeing track and around in the tent. Lindy's Kelly.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Lindy Chamberlain on trial for murder Michael as an accessory.
But to convince the jury they were guilty, the prosecution
would have to outline how she did it. And when
(07:05):
the prosecution says, Lindy was here at the communal barbecue
area along with all the campground witnesses. Now she leaves
here with her son Aidan, and she goes to the
family tent, which is a short walk away. Now, when
she gets to the family tent, Aiden goes inside. She
leaves him here. Then she walks to the family car,
(07:27):
which by the way, is only meeters away. Now police
say she sits in the passenger side seat and she
cuts Zaria's throat, stuffing her body into a camera back.
And this is where it gets really tricky, because police
say she then comes back to the tent only meeters away.
(07:47):
She somehow cleans herself up. She plants spots of Azaria's
blood throughout the tent. Then she leaves here and goes
back to the communal barbecue area. All the witnesses are
still here, and nobody notices anything different about her, and
all of this took place in ten minutes or less.
(08:09):
Ten minutes or less. To convict Lindy Chamberlain, the jury
would have to not only accept that impossible scenario, but
they would also have to dismiss the witness accounts.
Speaker 11 (08:25):
First of the forty odd witnesses expected to be called
was Tasmanian woman missus Sally Lowe.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
While the people at the barbecue heard next could not
have happened because, according to police, Azaria was already dead
along the track. I observed her from here to tay.
Speaker 9 (08:42):
There was no blood on her tools, and she resumed conversation.
And then the babies cry was heard.
Speaker 14 (08:49):
Three of us heard the babies crime and it.
Speaker 16 (08:52):
Was just.
Speaker 9 (08:54):
Keep it emotional still forty years since then, it was garaging.
It was like someone put a knife through you.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
The witnesses believe this was the moment the dingo came.
It was Bazaria's last cry.
Speaker 9 (09:16):
The cry that you heard, it was really really horrific.
Speaker 7 (09:22):
The campground witnesses destroyed the police case and they knew that.
And there was one woman, Sully Lowe, who insisted she
heard the baby cry out, and they interrogated her, didn't
question it, interrogated her for over two hours to try
(09:43):
and shake her version of events.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
During the trial, the jury's hearing all this evidence, do
you remember thinking anything about the jury in particular.
Speaker 7 (09:53):
Well, I would have loved to have been in the
jury during the deliberations.
Speaker 17 (10:05):
Vonn.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Being a jury member in a case like this a
tremendous responsibility. Do you remember the first day in court?
Speaker 5 (10:13):
Oh?
Speaker 18 (10:13):
Absolutely, like it was yesterday and you're just thinking, what
am I doing here? What am I doing here?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
You've probably never heard a jury member speak before. I
never have. In most states it's illegal, but in the
Northern Territory it's not.
Speaker 18 (10:29):
Well, I think we all had the opinion that she
was guilty. Everybody in Darwin thought she was guilty. And
I don't know whether it was the press, everything that
we read about it.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
I think everybody just.
Speaker 18 (10:40):
Said, ah, she's so guilty. She doesn't even cry that
sort of thing. And I'm embarrassed to say it because
I was led along like everybody else.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
What was the result from the first round of votes?
Speaker 18 (10:58):
The very first it was three guilty, three, not guilty,
three not sure.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
The debate would go on for hours, but the discussion
would always return to the overwhelming forensic evidence.
Speaker 18 (11:15):
And then I think after that it was all guilty.
And then your heart starts thumping and you start shaking.
And she knew as soon as we walked out the door,
because nobody looked across at her. Everybody was just holding
their breath, I think, and then guilty and then all
hell breaks loose.
Speaker 6 (11:36):
Will.
Speaker 16 (11:39):
At eight thirty five, six hours and fifteen minutes after
it retired, the jury finally returned to the court.
Speaker 14 (11:44):
The foreman was asked to rise.
Speaker 13 (11:46):
He was asked whether their verdict was unanimous.
Speaker 15 (11:48):
He answered yes.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
The verdict in Missus Chamberlain's case guilty for mister Chamberlain guilty.
Speaker 13 (11:53):
Missus Chamberlain was then sentenced to life imprisonment.
Speaker 10 (11:57):
Lindy reacted as ghast as you've been shot. The judge
almost apologetically sentenced to Lindy to life in prison with
hard labor. The jury was going out and I looked
at called on you pack up bastards, You pack up bastards.
Speaker 7 (12:15):
There's like a punch in the stomach. I thought it
was a great miscage of justice and would be a
blight on Australia in years to come because it was
just wrong.
Speaker 8 (12:31):
We went down with the Chamberlains to the cells afterwards
and they were, as you would imagine, really really upset,
asking if they were innocent, how could this have happened?
I don't remember that for long time.
Speaker 15 (12:53):
Clyndy Chamberlain was on her way to serve a life
sentence with hard labor.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
No body, no murder weapon, no eye witness, no confession,
no motive. So how could the law get it so wrong?
Speaker 8 (13:10):
Yeah, very fair question.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
My name is Denim, I'm from Channel seven. I'm looking
for a man who lives in this area. His name
is Hans Brunner. No one never heard of anyone like that.
Speaker 14 (13:28):
No, not at all.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I'm trying to find someone, a guy by the name
of Hans Brunner. Like it's a younger Roland's old. I
think next one down, okay, down the street here, Yes.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Let's go check.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Hello, Hans Hans Brunner. Yes, yes, Denim from Channel seven. Oh,
nice to meet you. Yes, yes, come to talk to
you about the Lindy Chamberlain case.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Really forty years.
Speaker 11 (14:10):
Scientific examination of that clothing showed an absence of saliva,
dingo hairs, pull threads, or any fragments of plants or seeds.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Animal hairs were found on Azaria's jumpsuit and in the
family tent, but an expert for the police identified them
as cat hairs. Case closed. Hans Brunner was in Australia
back then and just happens to be one of the
world's foremost experts on mammal hair. Yes, he wrote the
(14:40):
book and he took a keen interest in this case.
So you call police in the first few weeks.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
So I ranged the police from work, told him that
I have experiences with tinkles and things like this, and
I would like to come actually and have a look.
He is a oh, no, the company done, the police officer,
he said, The police said, no, the company done. She's stunted.
A knew how and you hung optophone.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Hans wasn't the only one who knew something was wrong,
Remember Professor Barry Botcher. He was certain the chemical used
to determine Azaria's blood was found throughout the family car
was faulty. The chamberlains lived in the mining town of
Mount iSER. Barry believed something there was causing the chemical
(15:39):
to give a false result.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I was given some copper and zincore from Mount iSER
and it gave a positive result as rapidly as blood did.
Speaker 10 (15:52):
Say.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
My wife and I went off to Mount iSER where
the chamberlains lived, and as we walked to our accommodation,
there was dust on the front door, and so I
immediately tested that and it gave a positive result. We
(16:13):
then tested streets of the dust on the side the streets,
We tested the keys of the accommodation.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
To every one of those locations are tested in town
positive everyone, So that copper oxide dust from the town
that they lived in would have been right throughout the car.
So almost every location she tested would have come back positive.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yes, not only stained areas, but non stained areas as well.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
What is the legal terminology for a mistake like that?
Speaker 12 (16:46):
It's a miscarriage of justice.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
And what would you call it in Layman's terms, a
forensic disaster. So if there was no blood in the car,
was the supposed arterial blood spread underneath the glove box.
That mystery would be solved by a man called Liz Smith.
Speaker 17 (17:07):
My friend told me he was photo copying transcript to
help save the Chamberlain's money, and I said I'd give
him a hand. And while I was sitting by the
photo copying copy of feeding pages through, I read the transcript.
I read about this metal bracket that had human blood
(17:28):
from an arterial.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
World bracket from the family to runner.
Speaker 17 (17:32):
Underneath the glovebox. Yes, every weekend, I bought all of
the local papers and I looked for holding karanas that
were for sale. I looked up underneath the board of
the car, and I went to car wreckers, and I
saw that the bracket in the cars that I examined
(17:56):
corresponded very closely with the bracket in the photograph.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
The tiny drops matched the pattern on the bracket from
the Chamberlain's car. It wasn't blood, It was paint overspray
from when the car was built. The copper oxide dast
from Mount iSER had then caused it to test positive
for blood.
Speaker 17 (18:22):
It turned out that this was the evidence that didn't
prove guilt. This was the evidence that proved innocence.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
About now an eccentric expert on mammal hair was finally
given access to the Chamberlain's evidence vault. He asked to
see only one thing, a small bag labeled cat hairs.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
So I looked at them. They were absolutely things and
not absolutely Oh, it's obvious. It's like pearsoned apples. Well
nearly upset me because I could have looked at deltails
right from the beginning and she would have never gone
(19:08):
to child.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
With all this new evidence, the Chamberlain Innocence Committee was formed,
appeals were lodged in the courts, and a controversial documentary
went to air on Channel ten Good Evening.
Speaker 7 (19:22):
I'm Kevin Hitchcock.
Speaker 13 (19:25):
It was accepted amongst the Aboriginal people that a dingo
had taken the baby.
Speaker 15 (19:31):
The system has made a mistake in our case.
Speaker 13 (19:34):
We are innocent, and I affirmed this, and my wife
would affirm it most strongly, so we must fight on.
Speaker 7 (19:41):
We had a reaction that I didn't really expect. Fifty
of the people believed that exonerated them, that it was right.
The people thought it was all wrong, and that's probably
continued to this day.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
At this point. From a legal perspective, you think it's
all over. The cat hair is actually dingo hair, The
scissor marks on the jumpsuit are actually caneine teeth. The
arterial blood spray underneath the glove box is actually paint,
and the blood found right throughout the Chamberlain's car, well,
it isn't blood at all.
Speaker 10 (20:25):
Well.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Incredibly, the Federal Court and later the High Court would
dismiss the Chamberlain's of people.
Speaker 6 (20:36):
This case is not over yet.
Speaker 15 (20:39):
Lindley and I are innocent people and that we will
not stop fighting to clear our names and the names
of our family.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
Lindy Chamberlain, sentenced to life for the murder of a daughter, Azaria,
is in Barralmer Jail, Darwin.
Speaker 19 (20:54):
As Chamberlain has given birth to a daughter.
Speaker 15 (20:58):
Mother and baby are both well.
Speaker 19 (21:00):
It was a sacked delivery.
Speaker 15 (21:03):
Earlier today, the Northern Territory Government announced that Missus Lindy
Chamberlain will not be allowed to keep the baby in jail,
as this would not be in the child's best interests.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Maybe Carlia had been taken from Lindy at birth, so
by now Michael was doing his best to raise three kids.
The appeal process exhausted the story out of the headlines
and slowly being forgotten. But there was one more twist
to come. Had an English hiker by the name of
(21:35):
David Brett not going to climb Boolooroo, would Lindy Chamberlain still.
Speaker 12 (21:42):
Be in jail?
Speaker 6 (21:46):
She may, she may.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Do you remember your feelings at the time?
Speaker 8 (21:51):
Excitement?
Speaker 12 (21:53):
It's a game changer.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Lindy had always been clear about what Azaria was wearing
the night she was taken. A jumpsuit, booties and a
button up jumper also called a matinee jacket.
Speaker 11 (22:11):
Scientific examination of that clothing showed an absence of saliva
dingo hairs.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
The jumpsuit and booties were recovered near a dingo lay.
Speaker 15 (22:20):
The police are also looking for a matinee jacket the
baby Azaria was wearing.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
The matinee jacket was never found, but the prosecution said
the jacket never existed in court it was a joke.
Speaker 8 (22:33):
There was no evidence of saliva on the jumpsuit, which
Missus Chamberlain explained by saying it was covered by a
matinee jacket.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
But the prosecution said the jacket never existed in court
it was a joke.
Speaker 13 (22:48):
Mister Barker said. The dingo, which supposedly killed Azaria. Chamberlain
must have been not only dextrous, but also very tidy.
Was able to achieve the killing of the baby, its burial,
its subsequent intermined and the removal of its clothes, all
without leaving any discernible clue that a dingo was responsible.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
In nineteen eighty six, English hiker David Brett fell to
his death while climbing ularu. Back then, John Beezy was
the head of the local search and rescue. Hey, John,
still find the spot even after all those years.
Speaker 6 (23:27):
Yeah, mate, I reckon, we were pretty well close to it.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Here bring back some memories, it certainly.
Speaker 6 (23:31):
Does, mate. Yeah, we were on a line search. We
were work walking that way and we were sort of,
you know, a meter and a half apart, I guess,
and we're looking for some terrorists who had climb the
rop and fall. And then all of a sudden came
across what I knew was the jacket from his area.
(23:52):
I knew straight away before I even went down to
pick it up. I could see it from standing up
like this. It was just plain and stay that that
was the jacket.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Of all the people in the line search that day,
only John had been involved in the original search for
Azaria six years before. Only John would understand the relevance
of a tiny piece of cloth half buried in the
desert sand.
Speaker 6 (24:19):
I've been over picked it up and I said, you
know what this is. This is the only thing that
was missing from hisaria.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Did you know the significance of that fine straightaway?
Speaker 6 (24:32):
Yes, I did. We sort of knew that it was
about to hit the fan.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
If not for you finding that jacket, Lindy could still
be in jail today.
Speaker 6 (24:44):
This absolutely may well be serving a life sentence in
the territory. Back in them days, it was life, life
was life.
Speaker 15 (24:52):
Northern Territory police say a baby's white jacket was found
about ninety meters from the body of a thirty one
year old man.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Almost immediately, Lindy Chamberlain was brought in to identify the jacket,
the same jacket police said never existed.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
But I'm stunned and amazed, but very grateful, grateful way,
because I think this just goes to show once again
that my wife was telling the truth.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Finally, the truth. A terrible miscarriage of justice. Authorities moved
at lightning.
Speaker 15 (25:34):
Speed when it came. The announcement took everyone across the
nation completely. By surprise, Lindy Tamberlin freed from Darwin Sperrimer jail.
Speaker 13 (25:44):
She was ushered into a waiting car, which then sped
through the streets of Darwin towards the city's airport.
Speaker 19 (25:50):
The Northern Territory government has decided to institute an inquire
into the Chamberlain case. It is not my intention that
she'd be taken back into custody regard lets the outcome
of the inquiry.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
The fight to clear their names would continue for decades,
making common at all note of it would take another
Royal Commission no less than two inquests before they would
finally hear the words We're sorry.
Speaker 20 (26:19):
Please accept my sincere sympathy on the death of your
special and love daughter and sister as Aria. I'm so
sorry for your loss.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
But still their lives would never be the same. So
how do kids treat you about all this awful?
Speaker 14 (26:40):
Why?
Speaker 10 (26:42):
No, godn't I because something against us?
Speaker 5 (26:46):
All the friends that I don't like tease me about it.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
So what are the kids at school say to you
about it?
Speaker 14 (26:52):
All?
Speaker 18 (26:52):
I say, Look, we'll come your mom, kilgibab.
Speaker 5 (26:57):
You brag on about that?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
How do you think mum handled jail. Don't that way, Okay, sorry, okay,
we'd like to talk about that. The Chamberlain's received one
point three million dollars in compensation, but it didn't matter.
Lindy and Michael would separate, then divorce, Lindy would later remarry,
(27:21):
Michael would die from leukemia aged seventy two.
Speaker 10 (27:27):
I's wrecked their lives, wrecked their marriage, marriage has broken
up and effected their children to no end fitted everything.
Had this never happened, there would have been lived on
in happy obscurity at the set of the wreckage that
this case have produced.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Is there still a large element of Australia that still
thinks that Inndy Chamberlain is guilty.
Speaker 7 (27:49):
Well, it's always been around fifty to fifty so I
think there are still people definitely out there. But hopefully
forty years after I had an a tempt you'll be
able to convince those people. That'll be a nice ending
to the story.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
It would. But the one person who never had a
voice in all this was Azariah. She should be celebrating
her fortieth birthday this month, so the last word should
be about her.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
You never forget there are little things that out of
the blue remind you, and you can just see a
fleeting glimpse in the side of a face, the movement
of an arm that blinks, what the person that you
loved and last did, and it hits you just there.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
What real memories do you have of her?
Speaker 5 (28:47):
I've got lots of them, but I think that's one
thing I'll keep to me.
Speaker 13 (28:54):
Are you absolutely certain that you made no serious mistakes?
Speaker 6 (28:58):
You know there were no serious mistakes made, So.
Speaker 15 (29:01):
You're convinced that Lindy Champman was guilty of the charges
that you brought up.
Speaker 16 (29:05):
The Northern Territory authorities, particularly the police, had become so
obsessed with their belief of the Chamberlain's guilt that they
were unable to accept any material to the contrary. He
said that to accept the crowdcase, people would have to
accept that a normal, caring mother became a homicidal maniac
for five minutes.
Speaker 15 (29:22):
Do you think Professor Butcher is in a position to
criticize you, Well.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
I don't believe he is.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
He's not employed in a forensic laboratory of any type.
He has no conception of what dealing with an old
bloodstain involves.
Speaker 15 (29:36):
Missus Coole revealed today that she hadn't used the full
range of scientific checks during tests on twenty eight of
the items found in the Chamberlain's car.
Speaker 18 (29:44):
I was trying to think of something profound to say
to but all I could say was I'm sorry.
Speaker 17 (29:52):
If there's any one lesson that you have learned over
the seven years of all this, what is it?
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Trustful?
Speaker 7 (30:06):
Hello?
Speaker 9 (30:08):
Hello, that downs like mister Hitchcock.
Speaker 7 (30:11):
Hello, Lindy's am. I surprised.
Speaker 14 (30:13):
How are you?
Speaker 5 (30:15):
Oh gosh, I haven't called you for a while, so
it's time idea again.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yes see, how you behaving yourself?
Speaker 7 (30:23):
Well, I haven't been getting in as much trouble as
I used to. And how are the kids going?
Speaker 8 (30:29):
Ah?
Speaker 5 (30:30):
Either do it or right?
Speaker 7 (30:32):
I'm doing an interview on this subject, so i'd better
go what right now?
Speaker 9 (30:40):
Yes, well, I shall get off the line in a hurry.
Speaker 7 (30:45):
In that case by okay, Ma
Guilty. Young woman pregnant in the back of a police car,
in utter disbelit.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Headed for a floor by four meters sell in the
women's section of Darwin's beerrima jail.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
How I have.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Found guilty of murdering her baby girl? The whole country
hated her.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Right, she's guilty, or she should stay there for good?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Ah, No matter what, you would certainly have heard this.
Speaker 5 (00:40):
It wasn't time to go and tell people. I just
yelled out as anyone got a talk.
Speaker 6 (00:44):
Dingo's got my baby?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I think you know the Azaria Chamberlain story. I'm sorry,
but you're dined incredibly In the end, the death of
a little girl became a joke.
Speaker 7 (01:00):
You're right away in Australia, a punchline. Okay, I think
I heard dingle eating your baby.
Speaker 8 (01:06):
Yeah, you felt lost, my fiancee, the poor baby.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Maybe the dingo waits your baby thunder?
Speaker 9 (01:18):
I'm sorry you wait your baby?
Speaker 4 (01:20):
You know that's the true story.
Speaker 10 (01:21):
They lost kids.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Lindy Chamberlain would be played by the great Meryl Street.
The baby and how did we get to that? And
how did a jury get it so wrong?
Speaker 11 (01:36):
Help me think I didn't I got my baby? The
emotional impact of the trial appears to be having an
effect on seven months pregnant Missus Lindy Chamberlain and her
pastor husband Michael.
Speaker 7 (01:53):
She was the termined to have another daughter, and that
was the way she was.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
So Lindy at the trial pregnant. How was that viewed?
Speaker 7 (02:04):
That went badly for her? Again, she'd done something wrong
in the eyes of the public. It was almost as
though she was making fun of the judicial system having
another baby while she was on trial for murdering the
previous one.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
The demeanor of Lindy herself did that help or hinder her?
Speaker 7 (02:29):
Unfortunately it went against her. I found out later from
her that she didn't know what to do. If she
was smiling, she'd be taken as someone who wasn't taking
things seriously. And if she put on a stern face,
she was a sour bitch. So she really struggled with that,
and so she just kept the same face on.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
The Chamberlains had a public image problem. It shouldn't have mattered,
but it did. Lindy and Michael were grieving that they
had accepted their loss too quickly.
Speaker 8 (03:03):
The men I know how upset Missus Chaplain was.
Speaker 12 (03:08):
I saw off often both before and during the trial
exhibit signs of real upset. And Michael too, were both
traumatized by it, and to have the trial superimposed on
and the public hostility or skepticism UH made it just
harder for them.
Speaker 13 (03:32):
Mister Barker put directly to missus Chamberlain that she had
taken Azaria to the front seat of the family car
and cut her daughter's throat. Mister Barker said a spray
of Azaria's blood had gone up under the dashboard and
that more blood had flowed down the seat. Missus Chamberlain
began sobbing uncontrollably, and after more questions, said we're talking
about my baby daughter, not some object.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Without a doubt, the evidence from pathologist joy Cool was devastating.
Fetal blood found throughout the Chamberlain's car something Lindy and
Michael could not explain. The locations that it was found on,
Tao scissors, ten cent coin, door, hinge, the carpet, the chammis,
(04:16):
the glovebox, twenty two places in that car, twenty two
places where they found fetal hemoglobin.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
That was the claim, But there was something in the
car curdling their reagents.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Back then Barry Botcher was the key witness for the defense.
You saw a problem with them right from the start.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Right from the start, these are not the results you
would get if you were testing bloodstains from Ataria Chamberlain.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
It was Barry's job to convince the jury the blood
tests were wrong. The jury didn't believe him.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I was probably far too technical for for jury. I
had the feeling that I had let down the Chamberlains.
I really felt that.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
The science behind the prosecution case was deeply flawed, but
to the jury it was compelling. A British expert had
identified a bloodied handprint on the back of Azaria's jumpsuit.
The cuts were made by scissors, not canine teeth, and
the stain around the neck was consistent with a shroke wound.
Add to that, the Chamberlain's car was basically a wash
(05:35):
with Azaria's blood. But there was crucial evidence the jury
never heard, and it came from right here the earth
at Uluru. Local indigenous tribes have lived with dingoes at
Airsrock for thousands of years. Aboriginal trackers were there on
the night Azaria was taken, but not one of them
(05:59):
gave evidence. At the trial. If is this a thing
of track?
Speaker 14 (06:04):
That's thing go on? Can go drag?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
We found this buried in the channel seven volt Where
was the bush?
Speaker 15 (06:12):
Whether baby was put down?
Speaker 14 (06:14):
Yeah, I neven kept out. They pick him up again.
Back then Lindy Kelly. Thing goes kelty of course, because
I've been seeing track and around in the tent. Lindy's Kelly.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Lindy Chamberlain on trial for murder Michael as an accessory.
But to convince the jury they were guilty, the prosecution
would have to outline how she did it. And when
(07:05):
the prosecution says, Lindy was here at the communal barbecue
area along with all the campground witnesses. Now she leaves
here with her son Aidan, and she goes to the
family tent, which is a short walk away. Now, when
she gets to the family tent, Aiden goes inside. She
leaves him here. Then she walks to the family car,
(07:27):
which by the way, is only meeters away. Now police
say she sits in the passenger side seat and she
cuts Zaria's throat, stuffing her body into a camera back.
And this is where it gets really tricky, because police
say she then comes back to the tent only meeters away.
(07:47):
She somehow cleans herself up. She plants spots of Azaria's
blood throughout the tent. Then she leaves here and goes
back to the communal barbecue area. All the witnesses are
still here, and nobody notices anything different about her, and
all of this took place in ten minutes or less.
(08:09):
Ten minutes or less. To convict Lindy Chamberlain, the jury
would have to not only accept that impossible scenario, but
they would also have to dismiss the witness accounts.
Speaker 11 (08:25):
First of the forty odd witnesses expected to be called
was Tasmanian woman missus Sally Lowe.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
While the people at the barbecue heard next could not
have happened because, according to police, Azaria was already dead
along the track. I observed her from here to tay.
Speaker 9 (08:42):
There was no blood on her tools, and she resumed conversation.
And then the babies cry was heard.
Speaker 14 (08:49):
Three of us heard the babies crime and it.
Speaker 16 (08:52):
Was just.
Speaker 9 (08:54):
Keep it emotional still forty years since then, it was garaging.
It was like someone put a knife through you.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
The witnesses believe this was the moment the dingo came.
It was Bazaria's last cry.
Speaker 9 (09:16):
The cry that you heard, it was really really horrific.
Speaker 7 (09:22):
The campground witnesses destroyed the police case and they knew that.
And there was one woman, Sully Lowe, who insisted she
heard the baby cry out, and they interrogated her, didn't
question it, interrogated her for over two hours to try
(09:43):
and shake her version of events.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
During the trial, the jury's hearing all this evidence, do
you remember thinking anything about the jury in particular.
Speaker 7 (09:53):
Well, I would have loved to have been in the
jury during the deliberations.
Speaker 17 (10:05):
Vonn.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Being a jury member in a case like this a
tremendous responsibility. Do you remember the first day in court?
Speaker 5 (10:13):
Oh?
Speaker 18 (10:13):
Absolutely, like it was yesterday and you're just thinking, what
am I doing here? What am I doing here?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
You've probably never heard a jury member speak before. I
never have. In most states it's illegal, but in the
Northern Territory it's not.
Speaker 18 (10:29):
Well, I think we all had the opinion that she
was guilty. Everybody in Darwin thought she was guilty. And
I don't know whether it was the press, everything that
we read about it.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
I think everybody just.
Speaker 18 (10:40):
Said, ah, she's so guilty. She doesn't even cry that
sort of thing. And I'm embarrassed to say it because
I was led along like everybody else.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
What was the result from the first round of votes?
Speaker 18 (10:58):
The very first it was three guilty, three, not guilty,
three not sure.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
The debate would go on for hours, but the discussion
would always return to the overwhelming forensic evidence.
Speaker 18 (11:15):
And then I think after that it was all guilty.
And then your heart starts thumping and you start shaking.
And she knew as soon as we walked out the door,
because nobody looked across at her. Everybody was just holding
their breath, I think, and then guilty and then all
hell breaks loose.
Speaker 6 (11:36):
Will.
Speaker 16 (11:39):
At eight thirty five, six hours and fifteen minutes after
it retired, the jury finally returned to the court.
Speaker 14 (11:44):
The foreman was asked to rise.
Speaker 13 (11:46):
He was asked whether their verdict was unanimous.
Speaker 15 (11:48):
He answered yes.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
The verdict in Missus Chamberlain's case guilty for mister Chamberlain guilty.
Speaker 13 (11:53):
Missus Chamberlain was then sentenced to life imprisonment.
Speaker 10 (11:57):
Lindy reacted as ghast as you've been shot. The judge
almost apologetically sentenced to Lindy to life in prison with
hard labor. The jury was going out and I looked
at called on you pack up bastards, You pack up bastards.
Speaker 7 (12:15):
There's like a punch in the stomach. I thought it
was a great miscage of justice and would be a
blight on Australia in years to come because it was
just wrong.
Speaker 8 (12:31):
We went down with the Chamberlains to the cells afterwards
and they were, as you would imagine, really really upset,
asking if they were innocent, how could this have happened?
I don't remember that for long time.
Speaker 15 (12:53):
Clyndy Chamberlain was on her way to serve a life
sentence with hard labor.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
No body, no murder weapon, no eye witness, no confession,
no motive. So how could the law get it so wrong?
Speaker 8 (13:10):
Yeah, very fair question.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
My name is Denim, I'm from Channel seven. I'm looking
for a man who lives in this area. His name
is Hans Brunner. No one never heard of anyone like that.
Speaker 14 (13:28):
No, not at all.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I'm trying to find someone, a guy by the name
of Hans Brunner. Like it's a younger Roland's old. I
think next one down, okay, down the street here, Yes.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Let's go check.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Hello, Hans Hans Brunner. Yes, yes, Denim from Channel seven. Oh,
nice to meet you. Yes, yes, come to talk to
you about the Lindy Chamberlain case.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Really forty years.
Speaker 11 (14:10):
Scientific examination of that clothing showed an absence of saliva,
dingo hairs, pull threads, or any fragments of plants or seeds.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Animal hairs were found on Azaria's jumpsuit and in the
family tent, but an expert for the police identified them
as cat hairs. Case closed. Hans Brunner was in Australia
back then and just happens to be one of the
world's foremost experts on mammal hair. Yes, he wrote the
(14:40):
book and he took a keen interest in this case.
So you call police in the first few weeks.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
So I ranged the police from work, told him that
I have experiences with tinkles and things like this, and
I would like to come actually and have a look.
He is a oh, no, the company done, the police officer,
he said, The police said, no, the company done. She's stunted.
A knew how and you hung optophone.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Hans wasn't the only one who knew something was wrong,
Remember Professor Barry Botcher. He was certain the chemical used
to determine Azaria's blood was found throughout the family car
was faulty. The chamberlains lived in the mining town of
Mount iSER. Barry believed something there was causing the chemical
(15:39):
to give a false result.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I was given some copper and zincore from Mount iSER
and it gave a positive result as rapidly as blood did.
Speaker 10 (15:52):
Say.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
My wife and I went off to Mount iSER where
the chamberlains lived, and as we walked to our accommodation,
there was dust on the front door, and so I
immediately tested that and it gave a positive result. We
(16:13):
then tested streets of the dust on the side the streets,
We tested the keys of the accommodation.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
To every one of those locations are tested in town
positive everyone, So that copper oxide dust from the town
that they lived in would have been right throughout the car.
So almost every location she tested would have come back positive.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yes, not only stained areas, but non stained areas as well.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
What is the legal terminology for a mistake like that?
Speaker 12 (16:46):
It's a miscarriage of justice.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
And what would you call it in Layman's terms, a
forensic disaster. So if there was no blood in the car,
was the supposed arterial blood spread underneath the glove box.
That mystery would be solved by a man called Liz Smith.
Speaker 17 (17:07):
My friend told me he was photo copying transcript to
help save the Chamberlain's money, and I said I'd give
him a hand. And while I was sitting by the
photo copying copy of feeding pages through, I read the transcript.
I read about this metal bracket that had human blood
(17:28):
from an arterial.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
World bracket from the family to runner.
Speaker 17 (17:32):
Underneath the glovebox. Yes, every weekend, I bought all of
the local papers and I looked for holding karanas that
were for sale. I looked up underneath the board of
the car, and I went to car wreckers, and I
saw that the bracket in the cars that I examined
(17:56):
corresponded very closely with the bracket in the photograph.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
The tiny drops matched the pattern on the bracket from
the Chamberlain's car. It wasn't blood, It was paint overspray
from when the car was built. The copper oxide dast
from Mount iSER had then caused it to test positive
for blood.
Speaker 17 (18:22):
It turned out that this was the evidence that didn't
prove guilt. This was the evidence that proved innocence.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
About now an eccentric expert on mammal hair was finally
given access to the Chamberlain's evidence vault. He asked to
see only one thing, a small bag labeled cat hairs.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
So I looked at them. They were absolutely things and
not absolutely Oh, it's obvious. It's like pearsoned apples. Well
nearly upset me because I could have looked at deltails
right from the beginning and she would have never gone
(19:08):
to child.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
With all this new evidence, the Chamberlain Innocence Committee was formed,
appeals were lodged in the courts, and a controversial documentary
went to air on Channel ten Good Evening.
Speaker 7 (19:22):
I'm Kevin Hitchcock.
Speaker 13 (19:25):
It was accepted amongst the Aboriginal people that a dingo
had taken the baby.
Speaker 15 (19:31):
The system has made a mistake in our case.
Speaker 13 (19:34):
We are innocent, and I affirmed this, and my wife
would affirm it most strongly, so we must fight on.
Speaker 7 (19:41):
We had a reaction that I didn't really expect. Fifty
of the people believed that exonerated them, that it was right.
The people thought it was all wrong, and that's probably
continued to this day.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
At this point. From a legal perspective, you think it's
all over. The cat hair is actually dingo hair, The
scissor marks on the jumpsuit are actually caneine teeth. The
arterial blood spray underneath the glove box is actually paint,
and the blood found right throughout the Chamberlain's car, well,
it isn't blood at all.
Speaker 10 (20:25):
Well.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Incredibly, the Federal Court and later the High Court would
dismiss the Chamberlain's of people.
Speaker 6 (20:36):
This case is not over yet.
Speaker 15 (20:39):
Lindley and I are innocent people and that we will
not stop fighting to clear our names and the names
of our family.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
Lindy Chamberlain, sentenced to life for the murder of a daughter, Azaria,
is in Barralmer Jail, Darwin.
Speaker 19 (20:54):
As Chamberlain has given birth to a daughter.
Speaker 15 (20:58):
Mother and baby are both well.
Speaker 19 (21:00):
It was a sacked delivery.
Speaker 15 (21:03):
Earlier today, the Northern Territory Government announced that Missus Lindy
Chamberlain will not be allowed to keep the baby in jail,
as this would not be in the child's best interests.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Maybe Carlia had been taken from Lindy at birth, so
by now Michael was doing his best to raise three kids.
The appeal process exhausted the story out of the headlines
and slowly being forgotten. But there was one more twist
to come. Had an English hiker by the name of
(21:35):
David Brett not going to climb Boolooroo, would Lindy Chamberlain still.
Speaker 12 (21:42):
Be in jail?
Speaker 6 (21:46):
She may, she may.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Do you remember your feelings at the time?
Speaker 8 (21:51):
Excitement?
Speaker 12 (21:53):
It's a game changer.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Lindy had always been clear about what Azaria was wearing
the night she was taken. A jumpsuit, booties and a
button up jumper also called a matinee jacket.
Speaker 11 (22:11):
Scientific examination of that clothing showed an absence of saliva
dingo hairs.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
The jumpsuit and booties were recovered near a dingo lay.
Speaker 15 (22:20):
The police are also looking for a matinee jacket the
baby Azaria was wearing.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
The matinee jacket was never found, but the prosecution said
the jacket never existed in court it was a joke.
Speaker 8 (22:33):
There was no evidence of saliva on the jumpsuit, which
Missus Chamberlain explained by saying it was covered by a
matinee jacket.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
But the prosecution said the jacket never existed in court
it was a joke.
Speaker 13 (22:48):
Mister Barker said. The dingo, which supposedly killed Azaria. Chamberlain
must have been not only dextrous, but also very tidy.
Was able to achieve the killing of the baby, its burial,
its subsequent intermined and the removal of its clothes, all
without leaving any discernible clue that a dingo was responsible.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
In nineteen eighty six, English hiker David Brett fell to
his death while climbing ularu. Back then, John Beezy was
the head of the local search and rescue. Hey, John,
still find the spot even after all those years.
Speaker 6 (23:27):
Yeah, mate, I reckon, we were pretty well close to it.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Here bring back some memories, it certainly.
Speaker 6 (23:31):
Does, mate. Yeah, we were on a line search. We
were work walking that way and we were sort of,
you know, a meter and a half apart, I guess,
and we're looking for some terrorists who had climb the
rop and fall. And then all of a sudden came
across what I knew was the jacket from his area.
(23:52):
I knew straight away before I even went down to
pick it up. I could see it from standing up
like this. It was just plain and stay that that
was the jacket.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Of all the people in the line search that day,
only John had been involved in the original search for
Azaria six years before. Only John would understand the relevance
of a tiny piece of cloth half buried in the
desert sand.
Speaker 6 (24:19):
I've been over picked it up and I said, you
know what this is. This is the only thing that
was missing from hisaria.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Did you know the significance of that fine straightaway?
Speaker 6 (24:32):
Yes, I did. We sort of knew that it was
about to hit the fan.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
If not for you finding that jacket, Lindy could still
be in jail today.
Speaker 6 (24:44):
This absolutely may well be serving a life sentence in
the territory. Back in them days, it was life, life
was life.
Speaker 15 (24:52):
Northern Territory police say a baby's white jacket was found
about ninety meters from the body of a thirty one
year old man.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Almost immediately, Lindy Chamberlain was brought in to identify the jacket,
the same jacket police said never existed.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
But I'm stunned and amazed, but very grateful, grateful way,
because I think this just goes to show once again
that my wife was telling the truth.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Finally, the truth. A terrible miscarriage of justice. Authorities moved
at lightning.
Speaker 15 (25:34):
Speed when it came. The announcement took everyone across the
nation completely. By surprise, Lindy Tamberlin freed from Darwin Sperrimer jail.
Speaker 13 (25:44):
She was ushered into a waiting car, which then sped
through the streets of Darwin towards the city's airport.
Speaker 19 (25:50):
The Northern Territory government has decided to institute an inquire
into the Chamberlain case. It is not my intention that
she'd be taken back into custody regard lets the outcome
of the inquiry.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
The fight to clear their names would continue for decades,
making common at all note of it would take another
Royal Commission no less than two inquests before they would
finally hear the words We're sorry.
Speaker 20 (26:19):
Please accept my sincere sympathy on the death of your
special and love daughter and sister as Aria. I'm so
sorry for your loss.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
But still their lives would never be the same. So
how do kids treat you about all this awful?
Speaker 14 (26:40):
Why?
Speaker 10 (26:42):
No, godn't I because something against us?
Speaker 5 (26:46):
All the friends that I don't like tease me about it.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
So what are the kids at school say to you
about it?
Speaker 14 (26:52):
All?
Speaker 18 (26:52):
I say, Look, we'll come your mom, kilgibab.
Speaker 5 (26:57):
You brag on about that?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
How do you think mum handled jail. Don't that way, Okay, sorry, okay,
we'd like to talk about that. The Chamberlain's received one
point three million dollars in compensation, but it didn't matter.
Lindy and Michael would separate, then divorce, Lindy would later remarry,
(27:21):
Michael would die from leukemia aged seventy two.
Speaker 10 (27:27):
I's wrecked their lives, wrecked their marriage, marriage has broken
up and effected their children to no end fitted everything.
Had this never happened, there would have been lived on
in happy obscurity at the set of the wreckage that
this case have produced.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Is there still a large element of Australia that still
thinks that Inndy Chamberlain is guilty.
Speaker 7 (27:49):
Well, it's always been around fifty to fifty so I
think there are still people definitely out there. But hopefully
forty years after I had an a tempt you'll be
able to convince those people. That'll be a nice ending
to the story.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
It would. But the one person who never had a
voice in all this was Azariah. She should be celebrating
her fortieth birthday this month, so the last word should
be about her.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
You never forget there are little things that out of
the blue remind you, and you can just see a
fleeting glimpse in the side of a face, the movement
of an arm that blinks, what the person that you
loved and last did, and it hits you just there.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
What real memories do you have of her?
Speaker 5 (28:47):
I've got lots of them, but I think that's one
thing I'll keep to me.
Speaker 13 (28:54):
Are you absolutely certain that you made no serious mistakes?
Speaker 6 (28:58):
You know there were no serious mistakes made, So.
Speaker 15 (29:01):
You're convinced that Lindy Champman was guilty of the charges
that you brought up.
Speaker 16 (29:05):
The Northern Territory authorities, particularly the police, had become so
obsessed with their belief of the Chamberlain's guilt that they
were unable to accept any material to the contrary. He
said that to accept the crowdcase, people would have to
accept that a normal, caring mother became a homicidal maniac
for five minutes.
Speaker 15 (29:22):
Do you think Professor Butcher is in a position to
criticize you, Well.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
I don't believe he is.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
He's not employed in a forensic laboratory of any type.
He has no conception of what dealing with an old
bloodstain involves.
Speaker 15 (29:36):
Missus Coole revealed today that she hadn't used the full
range of scientific checks during tests on twenty eight of
the items found in the Chamberlain's car.
Speaker 18 (29:44):
I was trying to think of something profound to say
to but all I could say was I'm sorry.
Speaker 17 (29:52):
If there's any one lesson that you have learned over
the seven years of all this, what is it?
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Trustful?
Speaker 7 (30:06):
Hello?
Speaker 9 (30:08):
Hello, that downs like mister Hitchcock.
Speaker 7 (30:11):
Hello, Lindy's am. I surprised.
Speaker 14 (30:13):
How are you?
Speaker 5 (30:15):
Oh gosh, I haven't called you for a while, so
it's time idea again.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yes see, how you behaving yourself?
Speaker 7 (30:23):
Well, I haven't been getting in as much trouble as
I used to. And how are the kids going?
Speaker 8 (30:29):
Ah?
Speaker 5 (30:30):
Either do it or right?
Speaker 7 (30:32):
I'm doing an interview on this subject, so i'd better
go what right now?
Speaker 9 (30:40):
Yes, well, I shall get off the line in a hurry.
Speaker 7 (30:45):
In that case by okay, Ma
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.