March 8, 2021 • 49 mins
In 2011, Canadian ex-pat Lisa Harnum was found dead at the bottom of a Sydney apartment building. Her fiance Simon Gittany was charged with her murder; he claimed she jumped from the balcony of their apartment. But three seconds of video would seal his fate. Investigative journalists Ross Coulthart and Steve Pennells recreate the story, the apartment, and meet the key people in both Lisa and Simon's life. This story contains course language and adult themes. This story originally aired in 2014.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
With them.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Mm hmmy, I gotta see myself.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
I'm gonna see that I look like I camera when
I'm kissing.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
What were your impressions over the period of time that
you worked with Lisa of Simon Gattani.
Speaker 5 (00:41):
My impression was that he was a passionate man and
an aggressive man.
Speaker 6 (00:51):
Okay, bye, say bye, bye bye bye.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I presume you've followed the recent murder trial with Lisa
Hannah death. Yes, there's a lot of descriptions of his.
Speaker 7 (01:02):
Rage, his anger. I've seen plenty of that. He bit
a piece off your ear, he did. Gatan is a
control for it. When he's not in control, he lashes.
Speaker 8 (01:20):
Out a little, a little puroet for me.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Baby.
Speaker 9 (01:28):
Oh here, I saw enough of him to know what
Simon is.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So you thought you know enough about him to still
think in your heart that he could be innocent.
Speaker 10 (01:46):
Mhm.
Speaker 6 (02:04):
So the early hours of that morning, you hadn't heard
from Lisa, and you sent a series of texts, progressive
texts to Salmon Gatani, and I imagine this stage you're
getting increasingly frantic.
Speaker 11 (02:14):
Exactly, Yeah, Simon, please let me speak to Lisa. Simon,
why are you doing this? Please let me talk to
her or let her come home. I am contacting authorities.
Please let me speak to Lisa. You talk about being
a man and prove it. Let me speak to her
and let her come home. Please please let me know
(02:35):
if she is okay. If you believe in God, Simon,
please let me talk to Lisa. Please, Simon, please let
me know if she is okay. Please, Simon, this is
her mother begging for her child.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I don't wonder what's what's going through your mind as
you're sending this.
Speaker 11 (03:03):
I just wanted to hear from my daughter. So swim
no shoes and.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Simon Gaetani has been accused and found guilty of one
of the most dreadful and notorious crimes in recent times.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
What do you say to that, Well, I don't believe
that he was guilty, so I think that it's really
wrong what they've done to him.
Speaker 10 (03:42):
You believe Simon is innocent.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
I know that Simon is innocent.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
On Wednesday, the twenty seventh of November last year, forty
year old Simon Gaetani was found guilty of murdering his
thirty year old fiance, Lisa Hannam by throwing her over
the balcony of their fifteenth floor apartment.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
I'd like to have a cigarette.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
What do you reckon?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Outside court? His new girlfriend, twenty four year old Rachel
Louise was destroyed.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Does anyone have a lighter?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Do you remember when you walked outside and there were
about one hundred cameras pointed right at you.
Speaker 10 (04:28):
And you lit a cigarette?
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I remember when I first came out, I just was
like these noises coming out of me. I can't even remember.
I just was like letting our air because I was
like freaking f man. I couldn't believe that it happened.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
You are you fooling as Rachel?
Speaker 12 (04:57):
I love playing for Rachel one up and now.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
When he was found guilty, I just wanted to have
a cigarette. And then when I went outside a lighter
and there was just so many freakin' people, Like there
were so many media people.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Would you like to see anything about what's just happened?
Speaker 3 (05:17):
But really, I was just when I watched it, I
couldn't I didn't even notice that I was shaking. Yeah,
but I just was so overwhelmed with emotion. I just
couldn't believe that that happened.
Speaker 10 (05:25):
Will you stand by Simon?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Rachel Simon is an innocent person and he needs someone
needs to help him, and that is exactly what I'm doing,
and I plan on standing by him until justice prevails.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I love his song.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
I love you so much.
Speaker 10 (05:48):
When did you first meet Simon?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
I met him five years ago, just over five years ago.
Speaker 10 (05:55):
Were you lovers or just friends?
Speaker 3 (05:57):
No, we were just friends.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
When did you first in love with him?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
I fell in love with Simon in October twenty twelve.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
There's been ever so many suggestions that you guys were
love as well before he met Lisa.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Lisa Harnah, Really goodness, No.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
There's been a hell of a lot made about the
fact that you two are very similar.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
What's your response, Well, I just think that they're trying
to sensationalize a story. I think they're trying to make
Simon look like a predator that he allegedly killed a
woman and now he's gone for a woman that looks
like her. I personally don't think that we look alike.
Speaker 10 (06:40):
You don't think you look alike?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Nope, I really don't think so. She's got big, beautiful eyes,
and my eyes are not massive.
Speaker 6 (06:50):
Lisa Harnan was born in Canada in nineteen eighty one.
She never met her father.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
How old was she in this picture?
Speaker 11 (06:57):
She was to remember exactly, She's five.
Speaker 6 (07:01):
Lisa and her elder brother Jason, were raised by their
mother Joan.
Speaker 11 (07:05):
It was nice to have like a son and then
have a daughter as well. It's kind of a perfect
family that you weren't one of each right now.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
That was great. She was pretty special.
Speaker 11 (07:14):
She was very special, Yeah she was.
Speaker 6 (07:17):
Lisa was a talented dancer and loved ballet, but she
was bullied at school. She battled depression and developed a
serious eating disorder. At eighteen, she was hospitalized.
Speaker 11 (07:30):
It was a tremendous struggle. We almost lost her, you know,
a few times, from the disease, but she pulled through.
Speaker 6 (07:38):
What happened at this hospital in Toronto was crucial to
Simon Gaitani's defense. As a teenager, Lisa spent months here
being treated for life threatening eating disorders bolimia and anorexia lavosa.
Kaitani's lawyers argued she was still struggling with these illnesses
in Australia. They said she was fragile physically and mentally,
and impulsive enough to climb over the balcony.
Speaker 12 (07:59):
Of the apart.
Speaker 13 (08:00):
Did she ever contemplate suicide. I asked that because obviously
in quarter was raised.
Speaker 11 (08:05):
Now she didn't you know, she loved people, she loved life,
and she loved her family. And for somebody to say that,
I mean, it's as a kid who when she was
in her early twenties never been away from home and
she goes to the other side of the world to
deal with life on her own. That's not somebody who
wants to take their life. That's somebody who wants to
(08:26):
live their dream.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
The world Lisa Harnum grew up in was very different
to Simon Gaetani's. He was raised in the western Sydney
suburb of Maryland's, a Lebanese Christian from a large family.
At eighteen, Gatani was given a two year good behavior
(08:50):
bond for savagely punching a deli owner who'd asked him
not to harris a female employee, Gaitani's ex girlfriend. Three
years later, the police came calling again.
Speaker 10 (09:05):
How would you read what happened to you? Was Simon Gaitani?
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Oh?
Speaker 10 (09:09):
Definitely the worst?
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Detective Sergeant Keith Bristow and his partner were investigating theft
the business where Gatani worked. The plane clothes officers went
to his family home, and while there they tried to
serve a warrant for his arrest on another stealing charge.
Speaker 7 (09:27):
So the first thing I remember is my partner being
struck and being knocked out on the floor. And then
I got hit over the back of the head with
what I believe was one of those boombox things at Cassette,
but it was a female. I can't remember if it
was his sister or his mother. His mother was involved,
she was involved, Yep, it was a free for all.
(09:48):
I had hold of Gatani and they're sort of getting
stuck into me from behind. He fell back onto a
bed and I landed on top of him. That's when
I felt him bite into my left I said to him,
don't do it, don't do it. He bit right through
and spat the place out in front of me, opening
(10:08):
the police force for a while, and it's the first
time anything like this has happened to me. How big
a piece kid, Oh and maybe the size of a
twenty cent police so a fair chuck.
Speaker 10 (10:18):
Yeah, it didn't miss me.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
He bit that police officer's ear so badly that a
piece of the year came off in his mouth.
Speaker 10 (10:30):
Did he tell you about that?
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Yes, he did tell me about that.
Speaker 10 (10:33):
What did he tell you happened there?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Well, he was defending himself. He was the police officer
had come into their home and they were not wearing uniforms,
so it's not that he didn't know there were police officers.
So when he was told that he was under arrest,
the guy who was lying on top of him, Simon
couldn't breathe. And you know, I don't condone what he did,
(10:57):
but it happened, you know, And had.
Speaker 10 (11:01):
You done anything to provoke him? No?
Speaker 9 (11:03):
Hey, the head o Jamien Hey go on.
Speaker 6 (11:07):
His right arm. Simon Gattani has a tattoo of a cross,
and it was his religion that helped him escape lengthy
jail time. After a priest supported his claim that he'd
undergone a religious conversion, Katani got weakened detention. He then
left Australia for a strict Catholic order at a monastery
(11:30):
three hours east of Paris, swapping one cell for another.
This was a place of hardship and strict discipline for
Simon Gattani. Every morning he was woken well before five
for a day of prayer, seven hours of it.
Speaker 10 (11:46):
His meals were served.
Speaker 6 (11:47):
Alone in one of these small, bare rooms they called
a cell. He was sealed off from the outside about
as far away from his former life as he could
possibly get. For eighteen months. This was Simon Gatani's world.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
It was eighteen months that he spent in a seminary.
Apparently it was a means to an end. You're skeptical,
very much, sir.
Speaker 6 (12:13):
Was this religious devotion genuine?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Oh indeed, yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 6 (12:17):
Father Michael Delsort has known Simon Gattani for two decades.
Speaker 9 (12:22):
When he went over to the monastery, he was doing
the best he could to lead a good life.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Do you believe that his heart, he's a deeply spiritual man.
Speaker 10 (12:29):
Oh. Yes.
Speaker 6 (12:31):
But after eighteen months, Simon quit the order, confessing he
couldn't cope with a lifetime of celibacy. He left a
good life for the good life, especially at Sydney's Ivy nightclub.
Speaker 9 (12:45):
Instead of increasing a prayer of life, he may very
well have just let it slip a little bit.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
When he was convicted for the murder of Lisa Harnam
late last year, all of these revelations about his criminal
past came out, and we've got.
Speaker 10 (12:59):
To go through all this past.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
There was around two thousand, an incident where he was
pulled over in a black Porsche Boxter. He was found
in possession of fifty two ecstasy tablets and a large
sum of money and bundles of cash that he'd hidden
in his pants. Eventually he pleaded guilty to being a
drug supplier. Did he tell you about that?
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yes, he told me about that as well.
Speaker 10 (13:28):
How did he explain it?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Well, it was actually his brand who got pulled over,
didn't have a license and he asked him to hold
it for him because he thought that the police obviously
would not search Simon.
Speaker 10 (13:42):
So why did he plead guilty?
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Well, initially he was advised by his lawyer to do that,
so go speak to his lawyer.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
There's the whiff that comes from that arrest for the
ecstasy tablets, that he's a bit of an operator, that
he's a dealer in drugs?
Speaker 12 (13:57):
Is he No?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I'm sorry, but it's just so ridiculous really, Like, did
you also see the media come out and say that
because he started a business, a legitimate business with two
people who were convicted of methamphetamine dealing, so then he
automatically doing it guilt by association. That's ridiculous.
Speaker 14 (14:21):
I'm a glow worm worm, my little pony glowworms.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I think I got a bite.
Speaker 13 (14:30):
WHOA Were you worried about losing her to a country
the other side of the world.
Speaker 11 (14:44):
Absolutely, that's kind of a mother's worst nightmarey. I mean,
you know your children are going to leave the nest,
but you don't want the nest to be that far
away and be and female. I mean, you don't worry
so much about the guys, but your daughter, you do.
Speaker 10 (15:01):
When did you first meet Lisa Harnam?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
I met her in December? I think it was January
twenty ten.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Is it the case that you actually introduced Lisa to Simon?
Speaker 6 (15:17):
Well?
Speaker 1 (15:17):
No, right, so again it's been misreported somewhere that you
were actually the person that made the introduction.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Well, I gave her his phone number.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Lisa moved into Simon's Inner City apartment first as a flatmate.
They began dating, were soon a couple, and within weeks
they were in love. Bye.
Speaker 11 (15:43):
She liked them. They go along. Well, it was almost
like she truly felt that, you know, he cared about her.
Speaker 6 (15:53):
Watching see, you had no concerns when she's told you
they started seeing each other.
Speaker 11 (15:58):
No, at that point, I didn't because I trusted her,
because they could sit down and talk for hours, and
they were both interesting people and they were comfortable with
each other at that point. If I can say anything
(16:25):
to Simon good, it would be thank you for lending
my daughter convert to canthalosism, because she took it to
heart and she just shane after, you know, taking her vows.
Speaker 6 (16:35):
On Easter Sunday twenty eleven, with Simon beside her, Lisa
took her vowslia.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Celia.
Speaker 6 (16:50):
She also stopped using her first name, Lisa and instead
asked people to call her by her middle name, Cecilia. Outwardly,
they seemed a happy couple, but when Simon wasn't around,
she was emailing her mother about his sudden rages.
Speaker 11 (17:08):
From Lisa, I'm okay, mom, he has calmed down, stresses
getting to the both of us, and I said, is
everything okay? You need to get out of there, just leave.
He's not good, And Lisa said, Mom, please don't send
me messages like that. He reads them.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Okay, So let me get this right.
Speaker 6 (17:24):
So that state you realized that he's monitoring your communications
between you and your daughter.
Speaker 11 (17:29):
I thought so because she said to me when she
came home in December that year, How does he always
know where I am? And I said, he has your phone?
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Bug?
Speaker 11 (17:39):
Because he had given her a new film before she
came home, and she didn't believe that he would do that.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Perhaps the most devastating evidence that goes to the issue
of Simon's controlling behavior was when he installed covert software
that allowed him to secretly monitor the messages on her phone.
If Simon did that to you, how would you feel well?
Speaker 3 (18:06):
To be honest, I really wouldn't care because I don't
have anything to hide, so but I think he'd just
be a loser.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Do you agree that it was an appalling breach of trust?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Definitely? I agree. I agree that it was wrong for
him to do because if you don't trust your partner,
you shouldn't be with them. But we all make that mistake.
Speaker 10 (18:22):
Why did Simon do it?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Because he obviously didn't trust her.
Speaker 6 (18:26):
A month later, she sends you another message. You ask
her if everything's okay, and she replies.
Speaker 11 (18:32):
Seem as usual working time moms any minute.
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Boom explosions when when she spoke to you, what kind
of things did she say would set him off?
Speaker 11 (18:43):
Just about anything? She shouldn't cook something right, or sometimes
he hannas friend's over and she cook them something and
he doesn't happy with what she cooked, or him like
what she wore. She took too long. If she went
somewhere just anything and everything would send them.
Speaker 10 (19:07):
Nicely.
Speaker 11 (19:09):
Or we can do it a different way.
Speaker 14 (19:10):
I'm not having to go at you. I always wait
wait at home for you. I do like I don't
go anywhere. I don't do anything without your permission, without
asking you, without you being okay with everything. And I
don't do anything other than whatever it is that you
tell me to do.
Speaker 8 (19:26):
Nothing.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
What was this doing to self esteem? At this point
in time?
Speaker 11 (19:30):
You could see that it was slowly kind of eating
at her. She was getting unsure of herself.
Speaker 8 (19:39):
A baby simon. I'm just an emotional person. Feelings when like, and.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Some of these confrontations got violent, some of them did.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Lisa went to two separate counselors seven months apart, who
both said that there was no physical violence, no violence
at all in their relationship.
Speaker 10 (20:04):
So apart from the broken finger, well.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
It wasn't broken. It was fractured, like I fractured my
toe walking down the street.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Come on, Joanah overheard an argument between Lisa and Simon.
While on the phone with Lisa, she says, Lisa called me,
told me she'd picked up her purse or handbag to leave,
and he'd grabbed it and yanked at the purse. When
he pulled the purse off her, it broke her finger.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Yeah, well, Simons told me about that. They were having
an argument and she was because she would just he said,
would run away like impulsively. And then this time when
he grabbed the bag, and he said that the bag
had a very big like the buckle, the handle part
is like metal, so when he was grabbing it, like
(20:47):
you know, they were both holding the bag, he said
that it did actually fracture her finger.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Love you you too.
Speaker 6 (20:54):
Clearly this was a volatile relationship. Nonetheless, just over a
year after they began dating, Simon asked Lisa to marry him.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
On her fifth birthday, she got engaged to some Uh
did she bring you up and tell you and tell
you about her she did? Did she sound happy?
Speaker 11 (21:18):
It's hard to say.
Speaker 15 (21:20):
In the presence of everyone and in the presidence of God.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I just want to say to.
Speaker 12 (21:27):
Cecilia, have you seen the video of.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
The author proposal won day?
Speaker 11 (21:44):
I guess I will sit down and watch over right now.
Speaker 10 (21:47):
It's yes, It's all right.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Six weeks and six days after she accepted Simon Gatani's proposal,
Lisa Harnum was dead. The smile she showed to the
camera masked increasing emotional turmoil. Lisa began confiding in her
personal trainer, who suggested she seek counseling for, among other things,
(22:29):
her eating disorder, which had returned. The trainer recommended Michelle Richmond.
Eight days before her death, Lisa had her first meeting
with Michelle and quickly opened up.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
She started talking about how she had been cut off
and she felt monitored and she couldn't go anywhere, and
started talking about the things that were happening.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Lisa was so concerned at that first meeting. She asked
you not to take notes, didn't she? Why did she
do that?
Speaker 5 (23:02):
She didn't want there to be any evidence or any
way that Simon could ever find out what we discussed.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
She admitted to you that she'd suffered bolimia as a youngster,
and that she was suffering bolimia now. She hadn't told
Simon about it, had she?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
No?
Speaker 5 (23:19):
You know, with the bulimia, she said, was the only
thing she felt like she could control in her life,
and she had no control of anything in her life,
who she saw, where she went, what she wore, the
way she did her hair, even who she spoke to.
So the Bolimia was her private little world that he
(23:39):
could not dominate.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
One of the things that was put in the court
as well, was again to this controlling issue, was that
he told Lisa just to wear basic clothes, that she
couldn't wear dresses, just to wear pants, and that she
wasn't to go out to clubs anymore because he gets
uncomfortable with all the guys around. And he also told
them not to wear high heels to the shops.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Well, he doesn't like me wearing high heels to the
shops either. But the other stuff I don't believe at all.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
I have to ask you this, is it possible that
Lisa was making it up?
Speaker 5 (24:16):
I don't believe.
Speaker 10 (24:16):
So why not?
Speaker 5 (24:19):
You can tell when you're talking to someone when they're
to it, you know, enhancing the truth. And there was
nothing about what she was saying that was would make
me doubt that.
Speaker 14 (24:40):
I am truly grateful to have all of you in
my life right now, and.
Speaker 16 (24:47):
I'm I'm sorryful to have them in my mind.
Speaker 15 (24:50):
Dad, this man right here has given me the greatest
gift at all, and.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
That is the key to God.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Six days after proposing to Lisa Cecilia Harnham, Simon Gaetani
sent her this email. This is her reply. One of
(25:23):
the key issues that you were able to make a
judgment about is Lisa's self esteem? How was it by
the stage that you saw her?
Speaker 11 (25:33):
Broken?
Speaker 13 (25:34):
And welcome to the twenty third of July jin twenty eleven.
Speaker 6 (25:44):
Kitani had two sides. He could be charming or he
could be threatening. The court heard that he threatened to
have Lisa deported if she ever left him.
Speaker 11 (25:55):
He would say to her, if you're going to leave,
the only pleasure goings to the airport to go home,
or I will you know, have your passwort canceled because
I know people.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Would she tell you about these incidents?
Speaker 11 (26:06):
I don't think she told me everything.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
How does that make you feel?
Speaker 11 (26:10):
It's Richard hurt? Do you want to be there for
your kids?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Lisa began making plans to leave Simon two days before
her death. She packed and took a bag of personal
possessions to a Bondie storage unit that she'd booked and
paid for That same afternoon, she sent a text to
Michelle Richmond. Gaetani had installed surveillance cameras inside and outside
(26:49):
their apartment, but what Lisa didn't know is that he'd
also secretly loaded spy wear on her computer and phone.
She essamissed you you telling you that she was putting
clothes into storage, And what she clearly didn't know at
(27:10):
that stage was that her SMSes were being monitored.
Speaker 10 (27:13):
Weren't they? Yes? What happened next?
Speaker 5 (27:20):
Later that evening, I had a call from Lisa's number,
and it was Simon.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Do you remember the exact words that he said to you?
How he started it off? If you picked up the
phone he called you something, didn't he?
Speaker 5 (27:34):
Yeah, you fucking bitch. If you ever come near her again,
I'll harm you. I know where you.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Live, he says, quote Michelle, you fucking bitch. If you
ever come near Cecilia again, try to contact or meet her,
have anything to do with her. I know where you live.
I will fucking harm you. That's a threat of very
serious physical via.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Well, I just don't believe that Simon would say that.
I really don't.
Speaker 10 (28:02):
Were you scared by that conversation?
Speaker 11 (28:04):
Yes?
Speaker 10 (28:06):
Were you scared for Lisa after that conversation.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (28:12):
Forty eight hours later, Lisa called her mother in Canada.
It was to be their final conversation.
Speaker 11 (28:19):
She's, Mommy, just take down this information I'm going to
give you. Write it down. Make sure you get it right.
Write it down. And she gave me Michelle Richmond's information
and she said repeat it to me, repeat it, please,
repeat it, make sure you get it right. I going, okay,
she sort of anything happens to me, you know, contact
Michelle right away and I go, what are you talking about?
She said, it's okay, mommy, I'm going to bed now.
(28:41):
I'll talk to you, you know, as soon as I
Kenna the next morning.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Were you surprised when you heard that Lisa had given
Joan her mum, your details to contact her in the
event of her dying, Arry I.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
Thought she must have known the things were.
Speaker 11 (29:05):
Going to go wrong.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
On Saturday, the thirtieth of July twenty eleven, Simon Gaitani
woke early. He went to his study and tried to
log on to his spyware system so he could read
Lisa's messages. When he couldn't get access, he told the
trial he watched some pornography instead.
Speaker 6 (29:34):
Later that morning, when he still couldn't log on, he
says he confronted Lisa about changing his password. He says
they argued before he went back to bed.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
When he woke later that morning, Gatani says Lisa had
packed her bags and told him she'd booked a flight.
When he challenged her, she grabbed her handbag and ran
for the apartment door. Gitari went after her. It was
nine fifty four and nine seconds. Exactly what happens next is.
Speaker 10 (30:15):
That what does that.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Show Simon's hand over her mouth.
Speaker 10 (30:26):
I find that quite horrifying.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
It really does look horrifying when you look at it
that way. But I mean you've got to understand also
that Simon's acting instinctively. They have a relationship where she
would run away from him and he would chase her,
and it's exactly what he's done. She's run, he's chased her,
she screamed, He's put his hand on her mouth and
brought her back inside.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Sixty nine seconds from this point, Yes, Lisa Harnam is dead.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
The neighbors, the Glanvilles, were right next door. Yes, and
they gave very strong evidence that said that they both
heard a woman yelling, screaming, please help me, help me,
God help me.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
And I never find the police. By the way.
Speaker 6 (31:13):
After returning to his flat to put on a T shirt,
Simon Gaitani caught the lift fifteen stories down to the
ground floor. Unaware that her daughter was dead. Lisa's mum
would soon begin texting Simon, pleading with him to reassure
her that there was nothing wrong.
Speaker 11 (31:34):
Please let me know if she is okay. If you
believe in God, Simon, please let me talk to Lisa. Please, Simon,
please let me know if she is okay. Please, Simon,
this is her mother begging for her chat. Then finally
the phone rang. It was about two o'clock in the morning,
(31:55):
I guess, and I pat money ran to the phone
and I just said Lisa, Lisa, Lisa. And then a
man's voice came out and said, you know, he was
a police officer and he had some news for me.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
At that stage, your thoughts would turned to Simon Quatani
straight away.
Speaker 11 (32:14):
The first thing I said I came out of my
mouth was he killed her. I was devastated.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
And shocked, and as I said, my words were just
I didn't think he'd kill her.
Speaker 11 (32:49):
That's all I could say, over and over. Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
I know it will be over twenty five twenty six
years non parole period of eighteen years. Told you if
we have a twenty five anywa.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
What's going through your mind?
Speaker 3 (33:16):
I don't really know, to be honest, and really, I
just I don't know.
Speaker 13 (33:37):
Simon's been sentenced to twenty six years, You're the subject
of a vicious attack for standing by him.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Isn't it just easy to walk away?
Speaker 1 (33:46):
You know what?
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Really, it would not be easy to walk away because
I would have to live with this for the rest
of my life that I knew everything about this case.
I have an opportunity to help this person, and if
I don't do that, then I'd be a scum like
I would be what they're calling me.
Speaker 10 (34:07):
Do people approach you?
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Yes?
Speaker 10 (34:09):
What did they.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Say, Rachel Louise? I hope you burn in hell?
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Why do you think people have this impression of you?
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Well, I think it's because you know, everyone thinks that
Simon killed her, So because they think that, they automatically think, well,
I obviously know that he killed her, because it's so
obvious to everyone else. So if it's that obvious to everyone, else,
how can I be with someone that did that.
Speaker 15 (34:36):
Central to the case against Simon Gatani was what happened
in his apartment in the sixty nine seconds before Lisa
Harnon plunged fifteen stories to her death. We've recreated the
crime scene here in our studio. This is an exact
reproduction of the living area. The dimensions are exactly the same.
(35:00):
The furniture, the chairs, the sofa, everything.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
You see are actual.
Speaker 15 (35:04):
Items from Simon Gatani's apartment and we've placed them in
the exact same positions they were in the day Lisa died.
This is the balcony, again, an exact reproduction. The height
of the balcony's glass railing is exactly the same, but
(35:25):
the prosecution and defense versions of what happened in that
sixty nine seconds couldn't be more different. He's Steve Panels
and Roscoll time.
Speaker 10 (35:40):
Okay, Steve.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
We are sixty nine seconds from when Lisa Harnam hits
the ground outside.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
The apartment, and that's our starting point.
Speaker 6 (35:48):
Because a picture that everyone knows, the picture that damned him,
was taken on this security camera here, which he installed.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
We know that at one stage, either before or after
he grabs her. She's screaming, help me, help me, Please
God to help us. He drags her back inside. It
goes absolutely silent, exactly.
Speaker 10 (36:11):
So this is where the two stories diverge.
Speaker 6 (36:14):
What the prosecutions say and what Katani's defense teams say happened.
According to Katani's lawyers, she come down as soon as
he brought her into the into the apartment. Katani says
he came around here into the kitchen and started making
her a cup of tea.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
He said that when they came in, he was so
embarrassed that she was screaming outside that when she went
and sat down on the couch, he went to the
kitchen to make her a drink. And the reason he
went to make her a drink was because they had
a seeing in their relationship that when they would have
an argument, one of the other person would do something
sort of as like a white flag, you know, like
let's sort it out.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
What does Katani say he saw he was making tea
when he looks up and he sees Lisa jump off
from the sofa and run towards the balcony.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Got up and she ran and he thought, he said, instantly,
I thought, what's on the balcony.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Both the Crown and Defense agree.
Speaker 10 (37:08):
Both of the men up here, both of the men
up here.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
By the time he got there, she was already almost over,
like her left leg was just left to go over.
Speaker 10 (37:18):
He says.
Speaker 6 (37:18):
By the time he reached the railing, she had slipped.
She was lying across the awning below. One leg was
hanging over and she was gripping for life.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
He said. She was holding on and they looked at
each other, and then it was like a split second.
He said, her legs were coming off because she was
looking more at her face, so he wasn't one hundredcent
concentrated on the lower part of her body. And then
he goes, just a split second, she was just gone.
Speaker 10 (37:47):
If you walk that.
Speaker 17 (37:48):
Past now, will follow you with the camera and if
he tas what you saw on that day, person, he
was short.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
There was one eyewitness to the act, a guy called
Bosh Rathnel, who's an editor at the ABC, and the
judge says that if there was a reasonable dart about
Rathnel's evidence, then she should have quit Simon, but she
believes Rathnel.
Speaker 16 (38:17):
My exception without a shirt on, carrying what I thought
at the time was a black suitcase or your luggage
or several items, and it looked to me as though
he was unloading them drying them off.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
The judge in the case said that Josh Rathmael's evidence
was a careful and compelling account of a deliberate act
of unloading an object from the balcony rubbish.
Speaker 16 (38:41):
There was someone molding the blood gob jacks and unloading
it almost in a rage.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
I think that he's seen the body, seen her fall,
and then he has just created a false memory. I
really genuinely believe.
Speaker 16 (38:57):
That after what's that like quite a while? Definitely, I
mean four minutes.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
I resume.
Speaker 16 (39:04):
A man in a white shirt and red pajamas as
came out and observed the body from a distance for
a short while before going crouching next to it and
speaking to the people of China reply for her.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
That witnesses evidence clinches the case against Simon Gaitani. He's
actually seen unloading Lisa Harnam.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
So he's holding her like this and he magically unloads
her through the balustrade, which is one hundred and twenty
one centimeters.
Speaker 10 (39:36):
One point two meters high.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
I think it's one point two.
Speaker 10 (39:39):
One how old? How hi is Simon.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
He's probably about one sixty nine.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
The judge accepts that Lisa must have been unconscious.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Well, if he renders her unconscious, then he's got to
pick her up and beho is she she's fifty kilos?
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Do you believe Simon could pick up the words?
Speaker 3 (39:54):
Absolutely not. I don't think that I'm fifty kilos, and
I do think you and pick me up?
Speaker 10 (40:01):
I don't know. Do you want to try?
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (40:05):
The defense case is that Simon Gaetani did not pick up, carry,
and unload Lisa Harnum.
Speaker 17 (40:14):
I need to live sideways. Just hold that there because
Karen's photograph.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Anthony Gaetani, who's taller than Simon, recorded this video to
try to show how difficult it would have been for
his brother.
Speaker 17 (40:30):
That shows you up on your toes shoes.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
It was difficult for me to lift alive Rachel without
hurting her.
Speaker 17 (40:47):
Okay, now do it? Do what you got to do
to get the legs over without letting you go? Okay, yeah, okay.
Speaker 10 (41:00):
Don't lean over.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Kaitani's defense argued that Lisa had a history of historyonic behavior,
which they said explained why she climbed over the balcony.
The judge found Gaitani probably rendered Lisa Harnam unconscious before
picking her up and carrying her to her death. And
(41:23):
this is all in sixty nine seconds after he's rendered
her own conscious.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
Ye.
Speaker 10 (41:27):
Presumably if he hasn't knocked her out with a.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Punch, he couldn't know trauma to the body.
Speaker 10 (41:31):
As he strangled her.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
No sign a trauma to the body.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Okay, So how has he accused of rendering her own conscious?
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Autopsy report says that it's consistent with someone falling from
a height.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Let's assume they go back in the apartment and he's
still got his hand over her mask.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Do you want to try and do that? No one can.
You can't get someone unconscious by doing that.
Speaker 8 (41:52):
You can't.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
You can still push air out of your mouth.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Maybe she fainted exactly, and that's.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
The only thing that could happen. That is the only
plausible explanation. She would have had to faint then and there.
Then you've still got to deal with the diloma of
him picking her up and walking like sixteen steps.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
To the balcony tick sixty nine seconds.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Yeah, I don't. I think it's physically impossible what they're
saying that he did so.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Professor, is it possible for Simon Gaetani to have rendered
Lisa Harnum unconscious in the time that he had available.
Speaker 18 (42:24):
It's entirely possible for anyone to render another person unconscious.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Professor John Hilton is one of Australia's leading forensic pathologists.
What detail can you tell me of how it could
be done?
Speaker 18 (42:41):
Well, pressure on the neck, There are certain highly vulnerable
It is on the neck which can other cause an
obstruction to the floor of blood up to or from
the brain, and certainly an obstruction of blood flow up
(43:01):
to the brain, unconsciousness will result within twenty thirty seconds.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Is it possible to do it by holding somebody's hand
over a moth and a nose.
Speaker 10 (43:12):
It's unlikely.
Speaker 18 (43:14):
I couldn't absolutely exclude the possibility of, but it's highly unlikely.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
In order for her to go over the balcony, she
must at some stage have touched the balcony or the
handrail to steady herself.
Speaker 10 (43:31):
As she lifted her legs over.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Now, the reason this is significant is because when the
police finally went into the apartment, they did not find
any fingerprints from Lisa Harnam on that balcony.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Did they no they found no identifiable fingerprints of Lisa Harnon.
Speaker 10 (43:46):
They did find silence.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Yep. How can Lisa possibly have climbed over that balcony
and not left a fingerprint?
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Well, if she's holding her handbag and she uses that,
just put it on the glass.
Speaker 6 (44:02):
The handbag theory was never put to the court, which
still begs one big question, Scott, can we do a
couple of tests to see how easy it is to
get fingerprints off glass? Was it possible for Lisa Harnham
to grab the glass and not leave a recognizable print?
Doctor Scott Chadwick is a forensic scientist specializing in fingerprints.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
If I grabbed it here, how easy is that?
Speaker 19 (44:31):
It's very easy because it's a nice fresh print and
we can get very well defined ridges.
Speaker 13 (44:35):
Okay, let's say I was moving, I held the glass here,
and I moved and spared my prints.
Speaker 19 (44:43):
The quality of the print won't be as good. It'll
be near impossible to get identification just because of those
ridges are no longer.
Speaker 13 (44:50):
There Is it possible to touch the glass and not
leave any Prince?
Speaker 10 (44:54):
Ah, Yes it is.
Speaker 19 (44:56):
The lack of a print does not mean the lack
of contact.
Speaker 6 (45:00):
Three times we ask this actress to repeat this action,
and each time we dusted for fingerprints, nothing there. Each
time the same result. Scott, can we get any usable
prince from this glass now?
Speaker 10 (45:19):
Or we can try, but.
Speaker 19 (45:23):
We can start to see that all we are getting
a smudges, even from fresh pastained glass.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
I'm telling you now, there is no doubt in my
mind that Simon is innocent. I have never, once, ever, ever,
ever doubted his innocence.
Speaker 11 (45:43):
I'm having to do this nicely, or we can do
it a different way.
Speaker 14 (45:47):
I'm not having a go at you. I always wait
wait at home for you. I do it like I
don't go anywhere. I don't do anything without your permission,
without asking you, without you being okay with everything, and
I don't do anything other than whatever it is that
you tell me to do.
Speaker 8 (46:02):
Nothing.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
There is evidence, and I know you dispute it, that
she was scared. If Simon made her, as the defense
submitted in the case, if Simon made her distressed, fearful
and desperate, doesn't that make him culpable.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
No, those are her own actions, not Simon's bad.
Speaker 12 (46:22):
You look beautiful.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Why are you following your arms? I love you so much.
You had to identify her body.
Speaker 11 (46:30):
That's correct.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
That must have been incredibly difficult.
Speaker 20 (46:34):
Of course, yeah, it was again, I'm seeing Lisa his body,
It was only part of Lisa. It was the shall
of my sister. My sister's spirit Wi Levion, forever her
life is around us.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Have you talked with Simon about the prospects for him?
Speaker 3 (47:07):
What do you mean?
Speaker 10 (47:09):
Well?
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Has he ever said anything to you about look just
get away?
Speaker 3 (47:13):
When he was initially found guilty, he did. He said
to me, like, you know, move on, like I don't
want you to stay around for me. I want you
to like so like home on I did.
Speaker 11 (47:33):
I didn't want to, you know what I mean, Like,
I really think that this is wrong what they're doing
to him.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
And I found him that I'll stand by him. Sorry,
we gonna have.
Speaker 6 (47:43):
A Simon Katani was sentenced to twenty six years in prison,
a minimum of eighteen years behind bars. Rachel was at home.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
I think he will be so upset that I didn't go,
But you know what, I supported him every single day
I went. Just today was for me. I didn't want
to go. So I don't know, I don't know how
he'd be reacting, but I know he'd be upset that
I didn't go that he didn't see me, because when
he goes, when I get there, he'd always turn around
to look at me to make sure I'm there.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
What are the emotions you're feeling right now?
Speaker 3 (48:25):
I feel like I don't even know what I feel.
I think I've had so much anger that I can't
even be angry right now. I feel just nothing.
Speaker 12 (48:41):
Hi, Sir Shamilia, Hi, what are you doing?
Speaker 3 (48:47):
Bob?
Speaker 12 (48:51):
Are you going to stand game?
Speaker 2 (48:53):
How sure are you that Simon Gattani mded your daughter?
Speaker 11 (48:57):
I am very sure he was responsible for her death.
All he had to do that day when she wanted
to leave is let her go. It's as simple as that.
Why did you not just let her go? She wanted
to go home to her family. How's all she wanted
(49:18):
to do.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
With them.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Mm hmmy, I gotta see myself.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
I'm gonna see that I look like I camera when
I'm kissing.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
What were your impressions over the period of time that
you worked with Lisa of Simon Gattani.
Speaker 5 (00:41):
My impression was that he was a passionate man and
an aggressive man.
Speaker 6 (00:51):
Okay, bye, say bye, bye bye bye.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I presume you've followed the recent murder trial with Lisa
Hannah death. Yes, there's a lot of descriptions of his.
Speaker 7 (01:02):
Rage, his anger. I've seen plenty of that. He bit
a piece off your ear, he did. Gatan is a
control for it. When he's not in control, he lashes.
Speaker 8 (01:20):
Out a little, a little puroet for me.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Baby.
Speaker 9 (01:28):
Oh here, I saw enough of him to know what
Simon is.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So you thought you know enough about him to still
think in your heart that he could be innocent.
Speaker 10 (01:46):
Mhm.
Speaker 6 (02:04):
So the early hours of that morning, you hadn't heard
from Lisa, and you sent a series of texts, progressive
texts to Salmon Gatani, and I imagine this stage you're
getting increasingly frantic.
Speaker 11 (02:14):
Exactly, Yeah, Simon, please let me speak to Lisa. Simon,
why are you doing this? Please let me talk to
her or let her come home. I am contacting authorities.
Please let me speak to Lisa. You talk about being
a man and prove it. Let me speak to her
and let her come home. Please please let me know
(02:35):
if she is okay. If you believe in God, Simon,
please let me talk to Lisa. Please, Simon, please let
me know if she is okay. Please, Simon, this is
her mother begging for her child.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I don't wonder what's what's going through your mind as
you're sending this.
Speaker 11 (03:03):
I just wanted to hear from my daughter. So swim
no shoes and.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Simon Gaetani has been accused and found guilty of one
of the most dreadful and notorious crimes in recent times.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
What do you say to that, Well, I don't believe
that he was guilty, so I think that it's really
wrong what they've done to him.
Speaker 10 (03:42):
You believe Simon is innocent.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
I know that Simon is innocent.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
On Wednesday, the twenty seventh of November last year, forty
year old Simon Gaetani was found guilty of murdering his
thirty year old fiance, Lisa Hannam by throwing her over
the balcony of their fifteenth floor apartment.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
I'd like to have a cigarette.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
What do you reckon?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Outside court? His new girlfriend, twenty four year old Rachel
Louise was destroyed.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Does anyone have a lighter?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Do you remember when you walked outside and there were
about one hundred cameras pointed right at you.
Speaker 10 (04:28):
And you lit a cigarette?
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I remember when I first came out, I just was
like these noises coming out of me. I can't even remember.
I just was like letting our air because I was
like freaking f man. I couldn't believe that it happened.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
You are you fooling as Rachel?
Speaker 12 (04:57):
I love playing for Rachel one up and now.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
When he was found guilty, I just wanted to have
a cigarette. And then when I went outside a lighter
and there was just so many freakin' people, Like there
were so many media people.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Would you like to see anything about what's just happened?
Speaker 3 (05:17):
But really, I was just when I watched it, I
couldn't I didn't even notice that I was shaking. Yeah,
but I just was so overwhelmed with emotion. I just
couldn't believe that that happened.
Speaker 10 (05:25):
Will you stand by Simon?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Rachel Simon is an innocent person and he needs someone
needs to help him, and that is exactly what I'm doing,
and I plan on standing by him until justice prevails.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I love his song.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
I love you so much.
Speaker 10 (05:48):
When did you first meet Simon?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
I met him five years ago, just over five years ago.
Speaker 10 (05:55):
Were you lovers or just friends?
Speaker 3 (05:57):
No, we were just friends.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
When did you first in love with him?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
I fell in love with Simon in October twenty twelve.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
There's been ever so many suggestions that you guys were
love as well before he met Lisa.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Lisa Harnah, Really goodness, No.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
There's been a hell of a lot made about the
fact that you two are very similar.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
What's your response, Well, I just think that they're trying
to sensationalize a story. I think they're trying to make
Simon look like a predator that he allegedly killed a
woman and now he's gone for a woman that looks
like her. I personally don't think that we look alike.
Speaker 10 (06:40):
You don't think you look alike?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Nope, I really don't think so. She's got big, beautiful eyes,
and my eyes are not massive.
Speaker 6 (06:50):
Lisa Harnan was born in Canada in nineteen eighty one.
She never met her father.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
How old was she in this picture?
Speaker 11 (06:57):
She was to remember exactly, She's five.
Speaker 6 (07:01):
Lisa and her elder brother Jason, were raised by their
mother Joan.
Speaker 11 (07:05):
It was nice to have like a son and then
have a daughter as well. It's kind of a perfect
family that you weren't one of each right now.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
That was great. She was pretty special.
Speaker 11 (07:14):
She was very special, Yeah she was.
Speaker 6 (07:17):
Lisa was a talented dancer and loved ballet, but she
was bullied at school. She battled depression and developed a
serious eating disorder. At eighteen, she was hospitalized.
Speaker 11 (07:30):
It was a tremendous struggle. We almost lost her, you know,
a few times, from the disease, but she pulled through.
Speaker 6 (07:38):
What happened at this hospital in Toronto was crucial to
Simon Gaitani's defense. As a teenager, Lisa spent months here
being treated for life threatening eating disorders bolimia and anorexia lavosa.
Kaitani's lawyers argued she was still struggling with these illnesses
in Australia. They said she was fragile physically and mentally,
and impulsive enough to climb over the balcony.
Speaker 12 (07:59):
Of the apart.
Speaker 13 (08:00):
Did she ever contemplate suicide. I asked that because obviously
in quarter was raised.
Speaker 11 (08:05):
Now she didn't you know, she loved people, she loved life,
and she loved her family. And for somebody to say that,
I mean, it's as a kid who when she was
in her early twenties never been away from home and
she goes to the other side of the world to
deal with life on her own. That's not somebody who
wants to take their life. That's somebody who wants to
(08:26):
live their dream.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
The world Lisa Harnum grew up in was very different
to Simon Gaetani's. He was raised in the western Sydney
suburb of Maryland's, a Lebanese Christian from a large family.
At eighteen, Gatani was given a two year good behavior
(08:50):
bond for savagely punching a deli owner who'd asked him
not to harris a female employee, Gaitani's ex girlfriend. Three
years later, the police came calling again.
Speaker 10 (09:05):
How would you read what happened to you? Was Simon Gaitani?
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Oh?
Speaker 10 (09:09):
Definitely the worst?
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Detective Sergeant Keith Bristow and his partner were investigating theft
the business where Gatani worked. The plane clothes officers went
to his family home, and while there they tried to
serve a warrant for his arrest on another stealing charge.
Speaker 7 (09:27):
So the first thing I remember is my partner being
struck and being knocked out on the floor. And then
I got hit over the back of the head with
what I believe was one of those boombox things at Cassette,
but it was a female. I can't remember if it
was his sister or his mother. His mother was involved,
she was involved, Yep, it was a free for all.
(09:48):
I had hold of Gatani and they're sort of getting
stuck into me from behind. He fell back onto a
bed and I landed on top of him. That's when
I felt him bite into my left I said to him,
don't do it, don't do it. He bit right through
and spat the place out in front of me, opening
(10:08):
the police force for a while, and it's the first
time anything like this has happened to me. How big
a piece kid, Oh and maybe the size of a
twenty cent police so a fair chuck.
Speaker 10 (10:18):
Yeah, it didn't miss me.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
He bit that police officer's ear so badly that a
piece of the year came off in his mouth.
Speaker 10 (10:30):
Did he tell you about that?
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Yes, he did tell me about that.
Speaker 10 (10:33):
What did he tell you happened there?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Well, he was defending himself. He was the police officer
had come into their home and they were not wearing uniforms,
so it's not that he didn't know there were police officers.
So when he was told that he was under arrest,
the guy who was lying on top of him, Simon
couldn't breathe. And you know, I don't condone what he did,
(10:57):
but it happened, you know, And had.
Speaker 10 (11:01):
You done anything to provoke him? No?
Speaker 9 (11:03):
Hey, the head o Jamien Hey go on.
Speaker 6 (11:07):
His right arm. Simon Gattani has a tattoo of a cross,
and it was his religion that helped him escape lengthy
jail time. After a priest supported his claim that he'd
undergone a religious conversion, Katani got weakened detention. He then
left Australia for a strict Catholic order at a monastery
(11:30):
three hours east of Paris, swapping one cell for another.
This was a place of hardship and strict discipline for
Simon Gattani. Every morning he was woken well before five
for a day of prayer, seven hours of it.
Speaker 10 (11:46):
His meals were served.
Speaker 6 (11:47):
Alone in one of these small, bare rooms they called
a cell. He was sealed off from the outside about
as far away from his former life as he could
possibly get. For eighteen months. This was Simon Gatani's world.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
It was eighteen months that he spent in a seminary.
Apparently it was a means to an end. You're skeptical,
very much, sir.
Speaker 6 (12:13):
Was this religious devotion genuine?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Oh indeed, yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 6 (12:17):
Father Michael Delsort has known Simon Gattani for two decades.
Speaker 9 (12:22):
When he went over to the monastery, he was doing
the best he could to lead a good life.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Do you believe that his heart, he's a deeply spiritual man.
Speaker 10 (12:29):
Oh. Yes.
Speaker 6 (12:31):
But after eighteen months, Simon quit the order, confessing he
couldn't cope with a lifetime of celibacy. He left a
good life for the good life, especially at Sydney's Ivy nightclub.
Speaker 9 (12:45):
Instead of increasing a prayer of life, he may very
well have just let it slip a little bit.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
When he was convicted for the murder of Lisa Harnam
late last year, all of these revelations about his criminal
past came out, and we've got.
Speaker 10 (12:59):
To go through all this past.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
There was around two thousand, an incident where he was
pulled over in a black Porsche Boxter. He was found
in possession of fifty two ecstasy tablets and a large
sum of money and bundles of cash that he'd hidden
in his pants. Eventually he pleaded guilty to being a
drug supplier. Did he tell you about that?
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yes, he told me about that as well.
Speaker 10 (13:28):
How did he explain it?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Well, it was actually his brand who got pulled over,
didn't have a license and he asked him to hold
it for him because he thought that the police obviously
would not search Simon.
Speaker 10 (13:42):
So why did he plead guilty?
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Well, initially he was advised by his lawyer to do that,
so go speak to his lawyer.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
There's the whiff that comes from that arrest for the
ecstasy tablets, that he's a bit of an operator, that
he's a dealer in drugs?
Speaker 12 (13:57):
Is he No?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I'm sorry, but it's just so ridiculous really, Like, did
you also see the media come out and say that
because he started a business, a legitimate business with two
people who were convicted of methamphetamine dealing, so then he
automatically doing it guilt by association. That's ridiculous.
Speaker 14 (14:21):
I'm a glow worm worm, my little pony glowworms.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I think I got a bite.
Speaker 13 (14:30):
WHOA Were you worried about losing her to a country
the other side of the world.
Speaker 11 (14:44):
Absolutely, that's kind of a mother's worst nightmarey. I mean,
you know your children are going to leave the nest,
but you don't want the nest to be that far
away and be and female. I mean, you don't worry
so much about the guys, but your daughter, you do.
Speaker 10 (15:01):
When did you first meet Lisa Harnam?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
I met her in December? I think it was January
twenty ten.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Is it the case that you actually introduced Lisa to Simon?
Speaker 6 (15:17):
Well?
Speaker 1 (15:17):
No, right, so again it's been misreported somewhere that you
were actually the person that made the introduction.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Well, I gave her his phone number.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Lisa moved into Simon's Inner City apartment first as a flatmate.
They began dating, were soon a couple, and within weeks
they were in love. Bye.
Speaker 11 (15:43):
She liked them. They go along. Well, it was almost
like she truly felt that, you know, he cared about her.
Speaker 6 (15:53):
Watching see, you had no concerns when she's told you
they started seeing each other.
Speaker 11 (15:58):
No, at that point, I didn't because I trusted her,
because they could sit down and talk for hours, and
they were both interesting people and they were comfortable with
each other at that point. If I can say anything
(16:25):
to Simon good, it would be thank you for lending
my daughter convert to canthalosism, because she took it to
heart and she just shane after, you know, taking her vows.
Speaker 6 (16:35):
On Easter Sunday twenty eleven, with Simon beside her, Lisa
took her vowslia.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Celia.
Speaker 6 (16:50):
She also stopped using her first name, Lisa and instead
asked people to call her by her middle name, Cecilia. Outwardly,
they seemed a happy couple, but when Simon wasn't around,
she was emailing her mother about his sudden rages.
Speaker 11 (17:08):
From Lisa, I'm okay, mom, he has calmed down, stresses
getting to the both of us, and I said, is
everything okay? You need to get out of there, just leave.
He's not good, And Lisa said, Mom, please don't send
me messages like that. He reads them.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Okay, So let me get this right.
Speaker 6 (17:24):
So that state you realized that he's monitoring your communications
between you and your daughter.
Speaker 11 (17:29):
I thought so because she said to me when she
came home in December that year, How does he always
know where I am? And I said, he has your phone?
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Bug?
Speaker 11 (17:39):
Because he had given her a new film before she
came home, and she didn't believe that he would do that.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Perhaps the most devastating evidence that goes to the issue
of Simon's controlling behavior was when he installed covert software
that allowed him to secretly monitor the messages on her phone.
If Simon did that to you, how would you feel well?
Speaker 3 (18:06):
To be honest, I really wouldn't care because I don't
have anything to hide, so but I think he'd just
be a loser.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Do you agree that it was an appalling breach of trust?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Definitely? I agree. I agree that it was wrong for
him to do because if you don't trust your partner,
you shouldn't be with them. But we all make that mistake.
Speaker 10 (18:22):
Why did Simon do it?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Because he obviously didn't trust her.
Speaker 6 (18:26):
A month later, she sends you another message. You ask
her if everything's okay, and she replies.
Speaker 11 (18:32):
Seem as usual working time moms any minute.
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Boom explosions when when she spoke to you, what kind
of things did she say would set him off?
Speaker 11 (18:43):
Just about anything? She shouldn't cook something right, or sometimes
he hannas friend's over and she cook them something and
he doesn't happy with what she cooked, or him like
what she wore. She took too long. If she went
somewhere just anything and everything would send them.
Speaker 10 (19:07):
Nicely.
Speaker 11 (19:09):
Or we can do it a different way.
Speaker 14 (19:10):
I'm not having to go at you. I always wait
wait at home for you. I do like I don't
go anywhere. I don't do anything without your permission, without
asking you, without you being okay with everything. And I
don't do anything other than whatever it is that you
tell me to do.
Speaker 8 (19:26):
Nothing.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
What was this doing to self esteem? At this point
in time?
Speaker 11 (19:30):
You could see that it was slowly kind of eating
at her. She was getting unsure of herself.
Speaker 8 (19:39):
A baby simon. I'm just an emotional person. Feelings when like, and.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Some of these confrontations got violent, some of them did.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Lisa went to two separate counselors seven months apart, who
both said that there was no physical violence, no violence
at all in their relationship.
Speaker 10 (20:04):
So apart from the broken finger, well.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
It wasn't broken. It was fractured, like I fractured my
toe walking down the street.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Come on, Joanah overheard an argument between Lisa and Simon.
While on the phone with Lisa, she says, Lisa called me,
told me she'd picked up her purse or handbag to leave,
and he'd grabbed it and yanked at the purse. When
he pulled the purse off her, it broke her finger.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Yeah, well, Simons told me about that. They were having
an argument and she was because she would just he said,
would run away like impulsively. And then this time when
he grabbed the bag, and he said that the bag
had a very big like the buckle, the handle part
is like metal, so when he was grabbing it, like
(20:47):
you know, they were both holding the bag, he said
that it did actually fracture her finger.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Love you you too.
Speaker 6 (20:54):
Clearly this was a volatile relationship. Nonetheless, just over a
year after they began dating, Simon asked Lisa to marry him.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
On her fifth birthday, she got engaged to some Uh
did she bring you up and tell you and tell
you about her she did? Did she sound happy?
Speaker 11 (21:18):
It's hard to say.
Speaker 15 (21:20):
In the presence of everyone and in the presidence of God.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I just want to say to.
Speaker 12 (21:27):
Cecilia, have you seen the video of.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
The author proposal won day?
Speaker 11 (21:44):
I guess I will sit down and watch over right now.
Speaker 10 (21:47):
It's yes, It's all right.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Six weeks and six days after she accepted Simon Gatani's proposal,
Lisa Harnum was dead. The smile she showed to the
camera masked increasing emotional turmoil. Lisa began confiding in her
personal trainer, who suggested she seek counseling for, among other things,
(22:29):
her eating disorder, which had returned. The trainer recommended Michelle Richmond.
Eight days before her death, Lisa had her first meeting
with Michelle and quickly opened up.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
She started talking about how she had been cut off
and she felt monitored and she couldn't go anywhere, and
started talking about the things that were happening.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Lisa was so concerned at that first meeting. She asked
you not to take notes, didn't she? Why did she
do that?
Speaker 5 (23:02):
She didn't want there to be any evidence or any
way that Simon could ever find out what we discussed.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
She admitted to you that she'd suffered bolimia as a youngster,
and that she was suffering bolimia now. She hadn't told
Simon about it, had she?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
No?
Speaker 5 (23:19):
You know, with the bulimia, she said, was the only
thing she felt like she could control in her life,
and she had no control of anything in her life,
who she saw, where she went, what she wore, the
way she did her hair, even who she spoke to.
So the Bolimia was her private little world that he
(23:39):
could not dominate.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
One of the things that was put in the court
as well, was again to this controlling issue, was that
he told Lisa just to wear basic clothes, that she
couldn't wear dresses, just to wear pants, and that she
wasn't to go out to clubs anymore because he gets
uncomfortable with all the guys around. And he also told
them not to wear high heels to the shops.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Well, he doesn't like me wearing high heels to the
shops either. But the other stuff I don't believe at all.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
I have to ask you this, is it possible that
Lisa was making it up?
Speaker 5 (24:16):
I don't believe.
Speaker 10 (24:16):
So why not?
Speaker 5 (24:19):
You can tell when you're talking to someone when they're
to it, you know, enhancing the truth. And there was
nothing about what she was saying that was would make
me doubt that.
Speaker 14 (24:40):
I am truly grateful to have all of you in
my life right now, and.
Speaker 16 (24:47):
I'm I'm sorryful to have them in my mind.
Speaker 15 (24:50):
Dad, this man right here has given me the greatest
gift at all, and.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
That is the key to God.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Six days after proposing to Lisa Cecilia Harnham, Simon Gaetani
sent her this email. This is her reply. One of
(25:23):
the key issues that you were able to make a
judgment about is Lisa's self esteem? How was it by
the stage that you saw her?
Speaker 11 (25:33):
Broken?
Speaker 13 (25:34):
And welcome to the twenty third of July jin twenty eleven.
Speaker 6 (25:44):
Kitani had two sides. He could be charming or he
could be threatening. The court heard that he threatened to
have Lisa deported if she ever left him.
Speaker 11 (25:55):
He would say to her, if you're going to leave,
the only pleasure goings to the airport to go home,
or I will you know, have your passwort canceled because
I know people.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Would she tell you about these incidents?
Speaker 11 (26:06):
I don't think she told me everything.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
How does that make you feel?
Speaker 11 (26:10):
It's Richard hurt? Do you want to be there for
your kids?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Lisa began making plans to leave Simon two days before
her death. She packed and took a bag of personal
possessions to a Bondie storage unit that she'd booked and
paid for That same afternoon, she sent a text to
Michelle Richmond. Gaetani had installed surveillance cameras inside and outside
(26:49):
their apartment, but what Lisa didn't know is that he'd
also secretly loaded spy wear on her computer and phone.
She essamissed you you telling you that she was putting
clothes into storage, And what she clearly didn't know at
(27:10):
that stage was that her SMSes were being monitored.
Speaker 10 (27:13):
Weren't they? Yes? What happened next?
Speaker 5 (27:20):
Later that evening, I had a call from Lisa's number,
and it was Simon.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Do you remember the exact words that he said to you?
How he started it off? If you picked up the
phone he called you something, didn't he?
Speaker 5 (27:34):
Yeah, you fucking bitch. If you ever come near her again,
I'll harm you. I know where you.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Live, he says, quote Michelle, you fucking bitch. If you
ever come near Cecilia again, try to contact or meet her,
have anything to do with her. I know where you live.
I will fucking harm you. That's a threat of very
serious physical via.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Well, I just don't believe that Simon would say that.
I really don't.
Speaker 10 (28:02):
Were you scared by that conversation?
Speaker 11 (28:04):
Yes?
Speaker 10 (28:06):
Were you scared for Lisa after that conversation.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (28:12):
Forty eight hours later, Lisa called her mother in Canada.
It was to be their final conversation.
Speaker 11 (28:19):
She's, Mommy, just take down this information I'm going to
give you. Write it down. Make sure you get it right.
Write it down. And she gave me Michelle Richmond's information
and she said repeat it to me, repeat it, please,
repeat it, make sure you get it right. I going, okay,
she sort of anything happens to me, you know, contact
Michelle right away and I go, what are you talking about?
She said, it's okay, mommy, I'm going to bed now.
(28:41):
I'll talk to you, you know, as soon as I
Kenna the next morning.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Were you surprised when you heard that Lisa had given
Joan her mum, your details to contact her in the
event of her dying, Arry I.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
Thought she must have known the things were.
Speaker 11 (29:05):
Going to go wrong.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
On Saturday, the thirtieth of July twenty eleven, Simon Gaitani
woke early. He went to his study and tried to
log on to his spyware system so he could read
Lisa's messages. When he couldn't get access, he told the
trial he watched some pornography instead.
Speaker 6 (29:34):
Later that morning, when he still couldn't log on, he
says he confronted Lisa about changing his password. He says
they argued before he went back to bed.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
When he woke later that morning, Gatani says Lisa had
packed her bags and told him she'd booked a flight.
When he challenged her, she grabbed her handbag and ran
for the apartment door. Gitari went after her. It was
nine fifty four and nine seconds. Exactly what happens next is.
Speaker 10 (30:15):
That what does that.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Show Simon's hand over her mouth.
Speaker 10 (30:26):
I find that quite horrifying.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
It really does look horrifying when you look at it
that way. But I mean you've got to understand also
that Simon's acting instinctively. They have a relationship where she
would run away from him and he would chase her,
and it's exactly what he's done. She's run, he's chased her,
she screamed, He's put his hand on her mouth and
brought her back inside.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Sixty nine seconds from this point, Yes, Lisa Harnam is dead.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
The neighbors, the Glanvilles, were right next door. Yes, and
they gave very strong evidence that said that they both
heard a woman yelling, screaming, please help me, help me,
God help me.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
And I never find the police. By the way.
Speaker 6 (31:13):
After returning to his flat to put on a T shirt,
Simon Gaitani caught the lift fifteen stories down to the
ground floor. Unaware that her daughter was dead. Lisa's mum
would soon begin texting Simon, pleading with him to reassure
her that there was nothing wrong.
Speaker 11 (31:34):
Please let me know if she is okay. If you
believe in God, Simon, please let me talk to Lisa. Please, Simon,
please let me know if she is okay. Please, Simon,
this is her mother begging for her chat. Then finally
the phone rang. It was about two o'clock in the morning,
(31:55):
I guess, and I pat money ran to the phone
and I just said Lisa, Lisa, Lisa. And then a
man's voice came out and said, you know, he was
a police officer and he had some news for me.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
At that stage, your thoughts would turned to Simon Quatani
straight away.
Speaker 11 (32:14):
The first thing I said I came out of my
mouth was he killed her. I was devastated.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
And shocked, and as I said, my words were just
I didn't think he'd kill her.
Speaker 11 (32:49):
That's all I could say, over and over. Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
I know it will be over twenty five twenty six
years non parole period of eighteen years. Told you if
we have a twenty five anywa.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
What's going through your mind?
Speaker 3 (33:16):
I don't really know, to be honest, and really, I
just I don't know.
Speaker 13 (33:37):
Simon's been sentenced to twenty six years, You're the subject
of a vicious attack for standing by him.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Isn't it just easy to walk away?
Speaker 1 (33:46):
You know what?
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Really, it would not be easy to walk away because
I would have to live with this for the rest
of my life that I knew everything about this case.
I have an opportunity to help this person, and if
I don't do that, then I'd be a scum like
I would be what they're calling me.
Speaker 10 (34:07):
Do people approach you?
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Yes?
Speaker 10 (34:09):
What did they.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Say, Rachel Louise? I hope you burn in hell?
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Why do you think people have this impression of you?
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Well, I think it's because you know, everyone thinks that
Simon killed her, So because they think that, they automatically think, well,
I obviously know that he killed her, because it's so
obvious to everyone else. So if it's that obvious to everyone, else,
how can I be with someone that did that.
Speaker 15 (34:36):
Central to the case against Simon Gatani was what happened
in his apartment in the sixty nine seconds before Lisa
Harnon plunged fifteen stories to her death. We've recreated the
crime scene here in our studio. This is an exact
reproduction of the living area. The dimensions are exactly the same.
(35:00):
The furniture, the chairs, the sofa, everything.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
You see are actual.
Speaker 15 (35:04):
Items from Simon Gatani's apartment and we've placed them in
the exact same positions they were in the day Lisa died.
This is the balcony, again, an exact reproduction. The height
of the balcony's glass railing is exactly the same, but
(35:25):
the prosecution and defense versions of what happened in that
sixty nine seconds couldn't be more different. He's Steve Panels
and Roscoll time.
Speaker 10 (35:40):
Okay, Steve.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
We are sixty nine seconds from when Lisa Harnam hits
the ground outside.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
The apartment, and that's our starting point.
Speaker 6 (35:48):
Because a picture that everyone knows, the picture that damned him,
was taken on this security camera here, which he installed.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
We know that at one stage, either before or after
he grabs her. She's screaming, help me, help me, Please
God to help us. He drags her back inside. It
goes absolutely silent, exactly.
Speaker 10 (36:11):
So this is where the two stories diverge.
Speaker 6 (36:14):
What the prosecutions say and what Katani's defense teams say happened.
According to Katani's lawyers, she come down as soon as
he brought her into the into the apartment. Katani says
he came around here into the kitchen and started making
her a cup of tea.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
He said that when they came in, he was so
embarrassed that she was screaming outside that when she went
and sat down on the couch, he went to the
kitchen to make her a drink. And the reason he
went to make her a drink was because they had
a seeing in their relationship that when they would have
an argument, one of the other person would do something
sort of as like a white flag, you know, like
let's sort it out.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
What does Katani say he saw he was making tea
when he looks up and he sees Lisa jump off
from the sofa and run towards the balcony.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Got up and she ran and he thought, he said, instantly,
I thought, what's on the balcony.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Both the Crown and Defense agree.
Speaker 10 (37:08):
Both of the men up here, both of the men
up here.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
By the time he got there, she was already almost over,
like her left leg was just left to go over.
Speaker 10 (37:18):
He says.
Speaker 6 (37:18):
By the time he reached the railing, she had slipped.
She was lying across the awning below. One leg was
hanging over and she was gripping for life.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
He said. She was holding on and they looked at
each other, and then it was like a split second.
He said, her legs were coming off because she was
looking more at her face, so he wasn't one hundredcent
concentrated on the lower part of her body. And then
he goes, just a split second, she was just gone.
Speaker 10 (37:47):
If you walk that.
Speaker 17 (37:48):
Past now, will follow you with the camera and if
he tas what you saw on that day, person, he
was short.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
There was one eyewitness to the act, a guy called
Bosh Rathnel, who's an editor at the ABC, and the
judge says that if there was a reasonable dart about
Rathnel's evidence, then she should have quit Simon, but she
believes Rathnel.
Speaker 16 (38:17):
My exception without a shirt on, carrying what I thought
at the time was a black suitcase or your luggage
or several items, and it looked to me as though
he was unloading them drying them off.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
The judge in the case said that Josh Rathmael's evidence
was a careful and compelling account of a deliberate act
of unloading an object from the balcony rubbish.
Speaker 16 (38:41):
There was someone molding the blood gob jacks and unloading
it almost in a rage.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
I think that he's seen the body, seen her fall,
and then he has just created a false memory. I
really genuinely believe.
Speaker 16 (38:57):
That after what's that like quite a while? Definitely, I
mean four minutes.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
I resume.
Speaker 16 (39:04):
A man in a white shirt and red pajamas as
came out and observed the body from a distance for
a short while before going crouching next to it and
speaking to the people of China reply for her.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
That witnesses evidence clinches the case against Simon Gaitani. He's
actually seen unloading Lisa Harnam.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
So he's holding her like this and he magically unloads
her through the balustrade, which is one hundred and twenty
one centimeters.
Speaker 10 (39:36):
One point two meters high.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
I think it's one point two.
Speaker 10 (39:39):
One how old? How hi is Simon.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
He's probably about one sixty nine.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
The judge accepts that Lisa must have been unconscious.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Well, if he renders her unconscious, then he's got to
pick her up and beho is she she's fifty kilos?
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Do you believe Simon could pick up the words?
Speaker 3 (39:54):
Absolutely not. I don't think that I'm fifty kilos, and
I do think you and pick me up?
Speaker 10 (40:01):
I don't know. Do you want to try?
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (40:05):
The defense case is that Simon Gaetani did not pick up, carry,
and unload Lisa Harnum.
Speaker 17 (40:14):
I need to live sideways. Just hold that there because
Karen's photograph.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Anthony Gaetani, who's taller than Simon, recorded this video to
try to show how difficult it would have been for
his brother.
Speaker 17 (40:30):
That shows you up on your toes shoes.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
It was difficult for me to lift alive Rachel without
hurting her.
Speaker 17 (40:47):
Okay, now do it? Do what you got to do
to get the legs over without letting you go? Okay, yeah, okay.
Speaker 10 (41:00):
Don't lean over.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Kaitani's defense argued that Lisa had a history of historyonic behavior,
which they said explained why she climbed over the balcony.
The judge found Gaitani probably rendered Lisa Harnam unconscious before
picking her up and carrying her to her death. And
(41:23):
this is all in sixty nine seconds after he's rendered
her own conscious.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
Ye.
Speaker 10 (41:27):
Presumably if he hasn't knocked her out with a.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Punch, he couldn't know trauma to the body.
Speaker 10 (41:31):
As he strangled her.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
No sign a trauma to the body.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Okay, So how has he accused of rendering her own conscious?
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Autopsy report says that it's consistent with someone falling from
a height.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Let's assume they go back in the apartment and he's
still got his hand over her mask.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Do you want to try and do that? No one can.
You can't get someone unconscious by doing that.
Speaker 8 (41:52):
You can't.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
You can still push air out of your mouth.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Maybe she fainted exactly, and that's.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
The only thing that could happen. That is the only
plausible explanation. She would have had to faint then and there.
Then you've still got to deal with the diloma of
him picking her up and walking like sixteen steps.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
To the balcony tick sixty nine seconds.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Yeah, I don't. I think it's physically impossible what they're
saying that he did so.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Professor, is it possible for Simon Gaetani to have rendered
Lisa Harnum unconscious in the time that he had available.
Speaker 18 (42:24):
It's entirely possible for anyone to render another person unconscious.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Professor John Hilton is one of Australia's leading forensic pathologists.
What detail can you tell me of how it could
be done?
Speaker 18 (42:41):
Well, pressure on the neck, There are certain highly vulnerable
It is on the neck which can other cause an
obstruction to the floor of blood up to or from
the brain, and certainly an obstruction of blood flow up
(43:01):
to the brain, unconsciousness will result within twenty thirty seconds.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Is it possible to do it by holding somebody's hand
over a moth and a nose.
Speaker 10 (43:12):
It's unlikely.
Speaker 18 (43:14):
I couldn't absolutely exclude the possibility of, but it's highly unlikely.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
In order for her to go over the balcony, she
must at some stage have touched the balcony or the
handrail to steady herself.
Speaker 10 (43:31):
As she lifted her legs over.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Now, the reason this is significant is because when the
police finally went into the apartment, they did not find
any fingerprints from Lisa Harnam on that balcony.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Did they no they found no identifiable fingerprints of Lisa Harnon.
Speaker 10 (43:46):
They did find silence.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Yep. How can Lisa possibly have climbed over that balcony
and not left a fingerprint?
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Well, if she's holding her handbag and she uses that,
just put it on the glass.
Speaker 6 (44:02):
The handbag theory was never put to the court, which
still begs one big question, Scott, can we do a
couple of tests to see how easy it is to
get fingerprints off glass? Was it possible for Lisa Harnham
to grab the glass and not leave a recognizable print?
Doctor Scott Chadwick is a forensic scientist specializing in fingerprints.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
If I grabbed it here, how easy is that?
Speaker 19 (44:31):
It's very easy because it's a nice fresh print and
we can get very well defined ridges.
Speaker 13 (44:35):
Okay, let's say I was moving, I held the glass here,
and I moved and spared my prints.
Speaker 19 (44:43):
The quality of the print won't be as good. It'll
be near impossible to get identification just because of those
ridges are no longer.
Speaker 13 (44:50):
There Is it possible to touch the glass and not
leave any Prince?
Speaker 10 (44:54):
Ah, Yes it is.
Speaker 19 (44:56):
The lack of a print does not mean the lack
of contact.
Speaker 6 (45:00):
Three times we ask this actress to repeat this action,
and each time we dusted for fingerprints, nothing there. Each
time the same result. Scott, can we get any usable
prince from this glass now?
Speaker 10 (45:19):
Or we can try, but.
Speaker 19 (45:23):
We can start to see that all we are getting
a smudges, even from fresh pastained glass.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
I'm telling you now, there is no doubt in my
mind that Simon is innocent. I have never, once, ever, ever,
ever doubted his innocence.
Speaker 11 (45:43):
I'm having to do this nicely, or we can do
it a different way.
Speaker 14 (45:47):
I'm not having a go at you. I always wait
wait at home for you. I do it like I
don't go anywhere. I don't do anything without your permission,
without asking you, without you being okay with everything, and
I don't do anything other than whatever it is that
you tell me to do.
Speaker 8 (46:02):
Nothing.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
There is evidence, and I know you dispute it, that
she was scared. If Simon made her, as the defense
submitted in the case, if Simon made her distressed, fearful
and desperate, doesn't that make him culpable.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
No, those are her own actions, not Simon's bad.
Speaker 12 (46:22):
You look beautiful.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Why are you following your arms? I love you so much.
You had to identify her body.
Speaker 11 (46:30):
That's correct.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
That must have been incredibly difficult.
Speaker 20 (46:34):
Of course, yeah, it was again, I'm seeing Lisa his body,
It was only part of Lisa. It was the shall
of my sister. My sister's spirit Wi Levion, forever her
life is around us.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Have you talked with Simon about the prospects for him?
Speaker 3 (47:07):
What do you mean?
Speaker 10 (47:09):
Well?
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Has he ever said anything to you about look just
get away?
Speaker 3 (47:13):
When he was initially found guilty, he did. He said
to me, like, you know, move on, like I don't
want you to stay around for me. I want you
to like so like home on I did.
Speaker 11 (47:33):
I didn't want to, you know what I mean, Like,
I really think that this is wrong what they're doing
to him.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
And I found him that I'll stand by him. Sorry,
we gonna have.
Speaker 6 (47:43):
A Simon Katani was sentenced to twenty six years in prison,
a minimum of eighteen years behind bars. Rachel was at home.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
I think he will be so upset that I didn't go,
But you know what, I supported him every single day
I went. Just today was for me. I didn't want
to go. So I don't know, I don't know how
he'd be reacting, but I know he'd be upset that
I didn't go that he didn't see me, because when
he goes, when I get there, he'd always turn around
to look at me to make sure I'm there.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
What are the emotions you're feeling right now?
Speaker 3 (48:25):
I feel like I don't even know what I feel.
I think I've had so much anger that I can't
even be angry right now. I feel just nothing.
Speaker 12 (48:41):
Hi, Sir Shamilia, Hi, what are you doing?
Speaker 3 (48:47):
Bob?
Speaker 12 (48:51):
Are you going to stand game?
Speaker 2 (48:53):
How sure are you that Simon Gattani mded your daughter?
Speaker 11 (48:57):
I am very sure he was responsible for her death.
All he had to do that day when she wanted
to leave is let her go. It's as simple as that.
Why did you not just let her go? She wanted
to go home to her family. How's all she wanted
(49:18):
to do.
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