8 Bits with Tessa Kriesel!

This week we are joined by Tessa Kriesel!

Tessa is a DevRel leader and advisor to many early-stage startups.

Join us as we learn about Tessa's journey from self-taught, open-source web developer to Head of DevRel at Snap, inc.

Episode Transcript

Brandon Minnick (01:59):
Welcome back, everybody to another episode of
eight bits, the show where weinterview the people behind the
check in hopes of Vic's in hopesto inspire more folks to do the
same. I'm your host, BrandonMinnick. And with me as always
is my amazing co host, PJ Metz.
PJ, how's your week?

Pj Metz (02:21):
Brandon, it's been a good week, yesterday. Yesterday,
I took the day off from work,because so the full story is a
long time ago, I got invited todo a survey for Disney. I have
an annual pass to Disney. Andthey were like, Oh, do you want
to do a survey we'll pay you Iwas like done. I have opinions.
You need to hear them. And thenyou can give me money for those
opinions. At the survey. I'm inlike a Zoom Room with all these

(02:45):
other people. And we're talkingabout what we like, what we
don't like stuff like that. Andsomeone's like, Oh, I really
enjoyed getting to meet therhinos the other day, and I
said, Excuse me, survey person,I need to talk to this other
person. What do you mean? Turnsout, there's an encounter you
can do at Disney's AnimalKingdom, which is one of the
four parks at Disney in Orlando.
That thing you do you get tolike, hang out and like touch

(03:06):
the rhinos and like watch themget fed. And there's like a baby
that exists right now like afive month old baby rhino. And I
was like, immediately, I wentand started looking for tickets
to that event. They were allout. I didn't get to meet a
rhino. What I did get to meetwere elephants. It's a similar
tour. And I got to see elephantsand it came right up to like the

(03:28):
area. Like there's a distancebetween you and the elephants,
obviously, because like, humansare terrible. But the elephant
was like right there looking atus and being cute and like,
scratching its legs. So really,that's all I need. It's been the
best week I've had in a longtime because I got to meet an
elephant yesterday. Did you getto meet any elephants recently?

Brandon Minnick (03:49):
It sounds a lot better than my week. I we are
we're in crunch time atMicrosoft. We have our big
annual conference coming nextweek Microsoft build. And you
would think I don't know howmany years Microsoft's been
putting on build. But longerthan the six years I've been
here and and you would thinkafter? I don't know, 1020 years

(04:10):
of hosting the same conferenceevery year that everything would
just go smoothly. And there'sthere's plans and no, every year
it's a total production. Likeeverything happens at the last
minute. There's people throwingstuff together. And so yeah, I
got to stay up. I was up tillabout 10 o'clock last night
opening up PRs for writing somedocs squeezing in some last

(04:33):
minute code things on and thenthat's on top of just you know,
doing your day job because youstill do your day job even
though we're all planning forthis big conference. So yeah,
I'm looking forward to nextweek. Done and I can I can read.
Microsoft also likes to do ouryearly performance reviews

(04:56):
around this time, which is justmore more work that feels
unnecessary for the

Pj Metz (05:03):
right time. I know you're all very. I'm gonna tell
you how we think you're doing.

Brandon Minnick (05:11):
Right. I mean, I will say it is pretty cool to
Microsoft, because everybodyworks so hard in the month of
May to get everything ready forbuild, at least in my bubble in
our developer bubble. That Junealmost becomes not an off month.
But that's how everybody books,their vacations like,
Absolutely. Kim and I will begoing to Costa Rica for a couple

(05:32):
of weeks. And it's actually fora friend's wedding. But yeah,
we're adding a couple of days oneither either side of that, but
yeah, everybody. Everybody kindof takes it easy in June. So I'm
looking forward to June.

Pj Metz (05:47):
Aren't we all looking forward to June? Well, I live in
Florida, so not so much. Becauseit's, it's already hot. We had
beautiful weather last week, andthen we're already getting into
the heat. And I think it's justgonna stay that way up. Brandon,
I have a question for you. Howlong have you been I've been
having these video chats abouttech.

Brandon Minnick (06:09):
Oh, goodness. I mean, it started probably, just
over two years ago, when westarted coding together, we
would meet every Sunday for two,three hours. And we would live
stream here on YouTube andTwitch just Yeah, I tried to
build a website, even thoughwe've never done neither of us

(06:29):
had done it before.

Pj Metz (06:31):
I always love how you paint it like that. You're like
neither of us has websiteexperience. But you had been
working at Xamarin, you werecurrently working at Microsoft,
and you were a mobile developer.
So like, I get that mobile andweb are very different. But you
know, you always said that, oh,I don't I don't know what I'm
doing. And you'd be like, oh, weneed to do this. And I was like,
Okay, I just started.

Brandon Minnick (06:51):
But yeah, intuition. Yeah.

Pj Metz (06:54):
To that point, you're the reason that I that I got in
the tech that I started thinkingI could do this. And you're the
first person to really say tome, you know, I think that you
could probably do this. And thatopened me up to a whole world of
amazing things of amazingpeople. I'm currently working at
GitLab. It's been a year I hadmy one year on May 3 of and so

(07:16):
like, oh, man, I've got 25%vested, like, oh, it's fun,
Derek and my friend, even. It'sbesting day I was like It is
yeah, um, but I just I'm soexcited because because of you,
I got to meet a bunch of amazingpeople. And one of the amazing
people that I got to meet andand just encounter and learn

(07:38):
from, is gonna join us on ourshow today. And I'm very excited
to have her. Everybody please,please, please welcome to our
stage, Tessa crystal.

Tessa Kriesel (07:50):
So excited to be here. And hear that lovely,
lovely like introduction thatyou've led me into.

Pj Metz (07:55):
I really like there are a handful of people, I can count
them on two hands, I will sayhandfuls of people who I really
think have been a majorimportant step for me in my tech
journey. And Tessa you are onebecause well, we'll talk about
it. We'll talk about why you'reso important to me and why I
consider you so amazing. Butfirst, we got to know who you

(08:17):
are. So we need you to tell allthe people at home, who you are,
what's your deal, and all theother stuff.

Tessa Kriesel (08:23):
Oh, all the other stuff. I mean, we can literally
about all. So Tessa crystalcurrently had a platform Dev Rel
at snap, which I started therein early March. And I'm like
just so pleased to be there.
They're doing some really cooland exciting things. Previous to
that. I think I've been inDeborah for like six to seven

(08:45):
years now, which is crazy long,in my opinion, because at the
time it was like, Oh, this iskind of new, even though it
really wasn't new. Right. But itwas like newly known in the tech
space. And yeah, I've justabsolutely loved it. Like we're
going to talk about my likeorigin story, which really
speaks to like, why I lovebuilding community and all the

(09:05):
things. I don't know what elseshould I share? If that's kind
of like me in a nutshell.

Pj Metz (09:11):
I'm not your mom. Oh my gosh. How many? How many? Are
you a mom too.

Tessa Kriesel (09:18):
I am a mom to 3.5 I say point five because I have
a 20 year old stepson who'samazing, but I totally claim him
but he has a lovely mother threewith me and my husband and then
another button in the oven thatyou can say yeah, yeah, yeah.
Motorcycles. Yes. All right.

Pj Metz (09:40):
That terrifies like what I found out that about
y'all is like, she's way coolerthan I'll ever be. That and it's
got a bunch of animated stickerson it and that's about as
extreme as I'll get. I actuallydid. This is funny and dumb. I
found out there's a motorcrosslike track near my house. And

(10:03):
normally I just ride on like abike path and I saw it and I was
like, I'll try that. Here's thehint. It's not a motocross bike.
It's not a BMX bike. It's just ahybrid bike. I am six foot six
and 270 pounds. And I was like,Yeah, let's take some tight
curves and go over. I fell andbroke my handlebar and skinned
up my knee. And there were kidsthere and I heard laughter and

(10:26):
then I heard You okay, man, Iwas like, I'm fine. And I walked
out of there and went home. Soyeah, motorcycles are not going
to happen.

Tessa Kriesel (10:37):
Oh, I'm kind of a gearhead like, my dad doesn't
have any sons like it just meand my sister. Obviously, he has
like son in laws now. And so healways like brought me around.
He used to do like mud racingand other kinds of racing and
stuff he'd bring me with and Iwas like, his like, son, right?
So I'd like always been superinto cars. And then just
recently got into motorcyclesbought my first motorcycle last

(10:59):
summer. And it's now justsitting around because I am
pregnant, and we'll be having ababy. But you know, we'll pick
it back up after things. Cooldown from that. So yeah,
probably one of my favoritehobbies.

Pj Metz (11:10):
Just imagine in a very tiny motorcycle for the baby
when it's born. I'm sure there'sa Born to be Wild onesie in its
future somewhere. Tessa, youhinted at that. We want to talk
about your background. So yeah,right now, head of Dev Rel, that
Snapchat and in charge of all ofit, right, all the dev rails?

(11:32):
And how do we find? Besides theyare. So how do we get there?
What's your what's your paththat took you into tech and into
Devereaux and into communitybuilding?

Tessa Kriesel (11:44):
Yeah, well, let's start at the way beginning,
which I think is a really funand cool story. So I dabbled in.
So first son, he was born in2008. I am from a super small
town. And so what you do is youget married, you have kids, and
then you figure out life afterthat. So I was pretty young. I
think I was 23 when he was born.
And you know, I was homeless himhe had just been born. I think I

(12:05):
was actually like, towards theend of my pregnancy when I first
started and I was like, I'mgonna learn how to like write
some code, because I've alwaysbeen super into tech, like I'd
fix VCRs that like really agesme quite a bit when I say that.
VCR, kid. Yeah, yeah. Like whenI was a kid, and like fix little
viruses on like, early Windowscomputers were like, it was a
lot easier to do that then.

(12:26):
Anyways, and so I'm like, Okay,I'm gonna dive into code. And so
started kind of dabbling in likefront end development stuff,
just looking at source code,looking at different templates,
figuring out how is it beingbuilt, try to learn kind of the
very fundamentals of like HTMLand CSS. Back then, like
JavaScript was like,straightforward. There wasn't
react and all this other likecrazy stuff. So I was like,
Yeah, I can do this. A loteasier to get in. I feel like

(12:49):
and then I had been playingguitar hero, like I'm was
obsessed with Guitar Hero, likeof c'est. I know, we talked
about this before the show, butwe all kind of nerd it out on
how great cooktop here was. So Iwanted to bring together right,
I'm like, staying at home withmy kid. He's just bored best
baby ever, like, slept throughthe night, like three weeks? And

(13:10):
so I'm like, What do I do withmy time? So play more Guitar
Hero, and then started realizingand I'm like, Okay, let's like,
you know, bring these peopletogether that like I want to
play guitar hero with becauseyou could play online, right?
But you couldn't build buildrelationships at that time? I
don't even know if you could addfriends on like, video game
consoles at that time. It's like2007 Maybe, maybe, maybe,

(13:35):
anyways, right? Right, going wayback. Again, ageing myself,
going way back. And I wanted tolike play with the same people,
right, I wanted to be like, Iwant to get better than like so
and so. Or I want to, like, youknow, play with someone when we
can constantly like, push eachother's like skill sets, right?
And so I'm like, what if I builtlike, a tournament community are

(13:55):
like a tournament like hierarchywhere people can come together.
And so it was like, Alright, Igot these new code skills,
right? Let's figure this out. SoI start diving into like, I'm
like, Okay, well, I quicklyrealized, right, that front end
development is not going to leadto like a tournament hierarchy
with data and people and all theinformation that of course, you
need a database for right. So Istarted figuring this out and

(14:16):
then decided I'm gonna land onsomething that's already pre
built, so I can learn from that,and then move forward. And so I
ended up leveraging Joomlaactually, which now is kind of
like, not all that active butloved it, like love to getting
into that and ended up meetingsomeone who is a PHP Dev. He
also loved Guitar Hero. So hekind of started teaching me some
stuff. And so then, like, Ibuilt out this like really cool

(14:37):
like Guitar Hero community,where people could like have
tournaments with each other. Itwas awesome. I bet we probably
had. I don't know like, I thinktowards the end we are almost up
to like 5000 members. I mean, itwas like, Yes. Like, do so many
people wanted to nerd out onguitar here like I did. So long

(14:59):
story short like it gets toprobably like I would say 1000
to like 2000 ish, like range.
And Activision is like, Hey,what are you doing over there?
Because I like posting theircommunity and be like, oh, like,
do you want to come hang outwith us who like, you know, come
have a tournament with us like,not spammy, but just cash. And
so Activision, like, reaches outand they're like, hey, you know
what, we're gonna start puttingyour tournaments in our
community. We're going to startlike getting you involved.

(15:20):
You're now a moderator. Theysent me like guitar swag, like
stickers and smoke bands andlike, all the cool stuff. So
absolute first experience intech, like building something
that went out into the world andlike, probably one of the
coolest things I've ever built,and we'll never be able to
surpass the level of awesomenessthat it was

Pj Metz (15:41):
days on the resume for

Tessa Kriesel (15:44):
GH jammers.

Pj Metz (15:46):
That's right the GH jam is still out there. Hold

Brandon Minnick (15:50):
on. No, no.

Tessa Kriesel (15:52):
I am so after I started like having getting
close to like having a secondchild I like gave up on it.
Let's not I don't think anywaysgave up on it. But the PHP dev
that helped me like he took itover and he kept it going for a
while but then I thinkeventually it just kind of died
off. But oh, it's so good.
Wayback Machine, you might beable to find it.

Pj Metz (16:12):
The way back oh my god.
That's a fun, little like, Ilove time traveling on the
internet. It's amazing. Really,we peaked with geo cities
rotating flame gifts. I'm prettysure that was the highest level
of technology we ever shouldhave been to. So you were so
were you like really good atguitar hero or were you like, I
enjoy it. But I'm not like weirdabout it. Or were you like I

(16:35):
missed a note. I'm restartingthe song kind

Brandon Minnick (16:38):
of. Was it fire in flames? Yes. That's the
question.

Tessa Kriesel (16:46):
Like, I was like, obsessed. I wasn't like, I'm
gonna start over if I likemissing out. I was just like,
alright, just you gotta likekeep tracking right next time,
it needs to be better. I almostgot to a point where I was like,
I should start going totournaments because I'm pretty
good. Then again, kids, right? Ilike had a baby. And I was like,
Alright, I gotta be a mom. Soyeah,

Pj Metz (17:08):
kids are well known for keeping people from Guitar Hero.

Brandon Minnick (17:14):
Carrying your musical career before I even got
started.

Pj Metz (17:16):
I so when I was in college, I went to college in
Gainesville. I went to UF and Iworked at a TGI Fridays for
like, four years while I was incollege. And we had a long
standing agreement. The barmanager and I, he said, Look,
we're gonna have guitar here onTuesday nights here. You're
good. If anyone can beat you,they get a free drink. And I was

(17:38):
like, Okay, so like, I'd be at atable and I'd hear PJ and I need
to like run over the TV and puton a guitar and the rules I had
to play on at least hard. Andthey could play at any level
they wanted. But and this is thesecret and everyone who played
guitar here at the TGI Fridaysin Gainesville, between like
2006 and 2009. If you wereplaying at a lower level than

(18:01):
me, you weren't able to beat me.
Because the higher levels havemore notes. And so I was
automatically able to get morepoints than you.

Brandon Minnick (18:09):
I was I was thinking the same thing. As soon
as you said it. I was like, gotit. They're never gonna beat
you. Yeah. That's right. Youhave to finish and then you will
automatically

Pj Metz (18:19):
once in a while, they'd be like, I'm picking Cliffs of
Dover on expert. I was like, Oh,it's my worst. Okay, let's do
it. And they would give you LongIsland Iced Tea or whatever.

Tessa Kriesel (18:29):
I miss my opportunity to be in Gainesville
and play against you.

Pj Metz (18:33):
Come on, where were you up in? northern Midwest? I'm
pretty sure at the time.

Tessa Kriesel (18:39):
Yeah. As in Minnesota, then not visiting
Gainesville very frequently.
Admittedly. Yeah.

Pj Metz (18:43):
That Minnesota Gainesville pipeline is not
really travel. Although I didget to go to Minnesota once for
a gator band. I almost saidfield trip. It was not it was
for the sweet 16. Basketball.
That's right. Sugar overflow forauto conference.

Tessa Kriesel (18:58):
Yeah. Let's do it.

Brandon Minnick (19:01):
Yeah, if next time you set up a booth, just
bring Guitar Hero and we willwhen people come out great.
Thank you. They'll be like, Whydo you have guitar here? Like
because it's awesome. Like yeah,but what's the catch? Like
nothing, just nothing a guitar,like guitar, but then silver
wiped out the whole

Pj Metz (19:17):
bag and like a really good idea. Alright. We're gonna
do it. Being taught today. We'regonna do guitar here.

Tessa Kriesel (19:30):
Invite me when you do this, because I want it
on this.

Pj Metz (19:32):
Oh, yeah. Well, we'll bring you in for sure. We need
your community building whereyou can get five people
involved. I love that. So when Iasked you like how'd you get
into tech, your first story isof using it to build community.
And that's, that's what youstarted out with. And that's not
the normal route for people whoare getting into tech. Normally

(19:54):
it's I get in the tech, and thenI find community building after
so that's been your thing fromday One and you're still doing
it. So like, I mean, I don'tknow how I'm gonna take notes on
this. How do you build acommunity of 5000? People? Who
didn't pay attention to you?

Tessa Kriesel (20:13):
Right? Honestly, like, it's common interest,
right? At the end of the day,like when you build a community,
it has to become an interest.
Like, you have to find peoplewho are, they don't necessarily
have to be like you, right? Youwant like a diverse community,
but they have to, like have thesame like and focus, right,
like, why are we here? What arewe? What are we all working
towards? And honestly, I mean,like, look at how excited you
got, when I started telling youthe guitar hero story like

(20:34):
before the show like it, there'sjust this passion, right, and
especially when it comes to likevideo games, when it comes to
like tech, you know, I there's alot of things in tech that I
feel like people get reallyjacked up about to, like dogs,
you know, some of those otherlike, very passionate areas of
like, here, here are my hobbiesand like loves. It is quite,
it's not easy. There's a lot ofwork to it. But it is easy, or

(20:57):
to build a really strongcommunity when you're all going
after something that you alllove.

Pj Metz (21:04):
And common interest is really important. And it has to
be something that you're likeactually interested because if
you don't really care, you can'tbuild a community for people who
don't care.

Tessa Kriesel (21:14):
100% Oh, yeah.
Cuz they're like, why would Ieven come? They're like, I don't
care what you're doing. I don'tI don't, there's nothing in it
for me. Right? And that's whatyou have to define community.
What's in it for them?

Brandon Minnick (21:25):
Where do you find the best place to start?
Is? And maybe we can contrastback then, like Guitar Hero days
to today, nowadays? Like, wouldyou start a Discord server
nowadays versus a website? 1015years ago?

Tessa Kriesel (21:40):
Yeah, I mean, for Guitar Hero 100% Discord server
would have been like such a win,like, how great would have been,
it would have probably, like,been way bigger than what I
could have done. But like, I'mactually like, in retrospect,
pretty proud of like, how bigthat community got, because it
was on a website. So I reallyhad to, like, go out, do the,
like hardcore marketing work tolike, bring in the right people,

(22:02):
which, you know, at that time,like, I'll tell you right now,
it wasn't all that difficult.
Like, that's not the case ofmost communities. But really, I
like reached out to likeActivision, and like some of
those other like platforms wherepeople are spending time and I
was just like, hey, I'm doing acool tournament anyone want in
and, and of course, like, if Isaw that, I'd be like, I want it
and like, I want to play againstpeople. So I can, like get
better, you know, so, yeah, Ithink I think having that like

(22:24):
common interests, like reallyhelped. But I feel like when
you've got a platform that canhelp kind of spread the word for
you a little bit, it's reallyvaluable. You know, so like,
dev.to Write super greatplatform, there's already a
bunch of devs there, you canstart to like, talk to them and
be like, Hey, I'm gonna getinvolved in your community and
like, start to like grow someinterest. Video games today. I
feel like yeah, like discordwould would definitely be like,

(22:46):
the probably the top topplatform to like leverage. But
if I was building like abusiness community or something
I needed to have analytics on Ineeded to report on I need to
have kind of some of that like,ROI stuff like discord would not
be my choice. But video games.
Definitely. Yeah,

Pj Metz (23:03):
that's for hobbies.
Absolutely. Get a bunch ofpeople out there doing what they
like. I mean, I'm sure it's funall the time. Yes, I'm sure the
guitar here community was like,there's arguments about like,
the type of guitar you're using,like, oh, the one that came with
two was better and had a betterclick. But like later on, like,
yeah, I use the rock band onewith it, but it's not as good.

(23:23):
Like,

Tessa Kriesel (23:26):
that was my favorite game. Well, no, sorry.
Legends of Rock. That one waslike my favorite game you could
target I had to stick to GuitarHero like I can't be

Pj Metz (23:37):
like rock band when it came up. Because someone's like,
you can play drums PJ, you're adrummer. I was like, that's
different. It's not like sayinglike a basketball player. Oh,
yeah, you can do that littlelike arcade basketball game.
Like there's similarities, butit's

Tessa Kriesel (23:53):
still a video game. It's like flying a plane,
right? I can be a pilot if Iknow how to fly plane.
Commercials, you see? And you'relike, yeah, that's not how that
works. No.

Brandon Minnick (24:03):
I'm glad you simulator.

Pj Metz (24:04):
Yeah. I never did anything productive on flights.
I would actually try and see howlong I could go without taking
off in flight. What you'resupposed to do in that game.

Brandon Minnick (24:22):
Come on the intercom looks sorry, our
flights been delayed another 25minutes.

Tessa Kriesel (24:28):
We're just driving around.

Pj Metz (24:29):
It's PJ we let them have the controls and so
building that community thatcommon interest, having a place
to go and like you said Discordis the place now for hobbies.
But if you're looking to do itfor like business related
things, you do need to have someresults you need to have some
data. So you are head ofdeveloped snap. What are y'all

(24:55):
doing with your community?
What's what's going on? What'sWhat's the inside scoop?

Tessa Kriesel (24:59):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm really glad that you asked
because like, there's so muchexciting stuff going on at snap.
Like, I'll share what I canwrite and, you know,

Pj Metz (25:11):
deletes messages afterward. Yeah, I'm sure
there's gonna be some secrets.

Tessa Kriesel (25:15):
Yeah. That too many secrets, right. But I think
like in general snap really hasit focused on the developer
ecosystem and creating like adeveloper platform. They've had
it right. Snap kit has been inexistence for a few years where
you can like log in with SNAP,Snapchat, like as your, you
know, authenticationauthentication method. You can
do some like sharing and thingslike that. But they're

(25:36):
definitely like ramping up theirdeveloper offerings. And so when
they talk to me about it, atfirst, I was like, Snapchat, I
feel like I'm a little old forthe Snapchat audience. Again,
aging myself, right. But thenstarted to like, learn what they
were doing. And like theaudience that they're focusing
on, and I think, coming back tolike, where my passions are, and
if I haven't heard this yet,like, I love helping people like

(25:57):
love, love, love, love helpingpeople get into tech, because
for me, it was like, completelyself taught, I'm trying to
figure it out, you know, how doI learn how to code, we didn't
have Code Academy, we didn'thave all those great things that
we do now. And so the audience'sthat I feel like I'm getting get
to serve are a lot of like GenZ, and a lot of like early
developer audiences, becausethose are the folks that are
really jacked up about Snapchat.
And so like, Yes, I can get in,do a little bit of mentorship,

(26:20):
do a little bit of like, youknow, Dev Rel and community
building. And so that's kind oflike my excitement for it. In
general, we are launching a fewdifferent offerings, and we just
had a summit, which is undersnap partner summit.com. So if
you want to rewatch that we didthat I would say about a month
ago can totally relate to you,granted with the build

(26:40):
conversation, like no matterwhat's going on, there's always
last minute things if we'regonna do something big like
that. So I'd strongly recommendwatching that some of the really
cool stuff you're gonna see as alot of like, augmented reality
that's coming into like reallife. And so trying on clothes
trying on, you know, differentthings like assessories, right,
and being able to see like, whatdoes it look like to have these
items on me personally. And thenthere's also some cool stuff

(27:04):
going on with like their newminis and Games platform, which
is currently in a closed beta.
So if anyone's like, down forlike getting into some, like a
gaming world, again, like we'vebeen talking about, we'd love to
chat with you shoot me a TwitterDM, and I can maybe get you into
the closed beta. Anyways,there's just a lot of cool stuff
going on. So some like buildinginside of Snapchat to really
expand Snapchat, and its totalofferings. And then from the

(27:27):
other side is like, if you'vegot a third party app, right?
Like, what do you want to dowith that third party app? Can
you use the technology that snaphas to leverage that inside of
yours, and that's kind of wherecamera kit comes into play. And
some of this other stuff. And socamera kits, the really like
exciting thing that I get tohelp with, outside of kind of
that minis and games. And soyeah, I feel like that was very

(27:47):
like high level, but watch thePartner Summit, because there's
a lot of cool examples to kindof allude to like what you can
do with some of the platformsthat I'm helping support. So
community side, we're justlaunching our community,
actually. And so it's super new,they haven't had a community.
And so that's actually going tobe rolled out to our beta party
partners and participants to beleveraged for like feedback and

(28:07):
like conversations are reallydriving that engagement. And
then that will become morewidely available when some of
these newer products get outinto the world. So lots of cool
stuff

Pj Metz (28:16):
going on, man.

Brandon Minnick (28:18):
Yeah, tell me tell me more about that camera
kit. Does that mean I could usethe filters that snap makes in
my own apps?

Tessa Kriesel (28:27):
Yep. You also can make your own filters, which
gets kind of into the AR side ofthe house. So there's a person
on who leads AR dobro His nameis Joe Darko, he's super great
human being. He leads AR The ARside. And so there's a lens
studio platform that snap has,you can actually go in and build
all your own lenses to do allthose different filters. But you

(28:48):
definitely can leverage the SnapChat ones that already exist.
And then you can bring all thattechnology like into your third
party apps actually.

Pj Metz (28:57):
That's really wild. Oh my gosh, I'm excited. I have not
been in a long while. I'm likeno, no offense, but like, holy
smokes. Like all those thingscoming up. I'm getting into that
kit now. I'm gonna ask thePartner Summit. That's
absolutely happening. And Ican't wait. I can't wait. Yeah,

Tessa Kriesel (29:16):
do it. One thing that I will share with you too,
is if you go into Snapchattoday, and this is something
that's just been getting rolledout and so I don't know if
everyone will have it. So youcan actually watch HBO Max with
your friends. And so that's oneof the minis that just released
Yeah, super cool. Right? So likemore of that stuff that like
you're gonna see from like, snapcoming out to like, Oh, I get to

(29:37):
read deliver alone and really,really, really pumped about

Pj Metz (29:40):
amazing we can watch the Batman together Brandon.

Tessa Kriesel (29:44):
Get friends to express a difference.

Pj Metz (29:47):
Which friends with your friends. So exciting, because
you just told us like a millionthings that are happening and
that's all crazy exciting. And Ihonestly I can't wait to dive
into it. But like it It alsosounds like that's a ton of
things that you're doing andthat you, and knowing you from
before, this is what you and alot of people like you and I and

(30:09):
Brandon do is we get excitedabout things we dig, dig our
hands into it. And then we havea million projects we're doing.
So how do you deal with havingso many things that you're
working on that you're playingwith?

Tessa Kriesel (30:22):
Yeah, I will say like, recently in my life, I
kind of, I don't want to saykind of, I fully, fully
evaluated everything that I hadgoing on, and what was like
actually bringing me joy andwhat was like consuming a lot of
my time. And then taking thiswhole, like, outlook of like,
what's actually bringing myfamily joy, right. Like, I have
a lot of kids and like, we havea big family and like we don't

(30:43):
always get to do all the thingsthat I think that they want to
do. Because I'm working on aweekend now at my job, snap is
amazing. They would never let mework on the weekend. But like
side projects, right, like, youknow, delicate, I used to run to
advocate. And that's somethingthat I decided to like actually,
like, move on from and like,allow someone else to take over.
So I think you know, projectsare hard, right? Especially when

(31:04):
you're early in your career.
You're like, I want to do allthe things. I want to learn
everything. I want to helpeveryone as I'm learning because
I feel like that's somethingthat's like a great mo of like
dance, right? It's like, I startto learn and be like, Okay,
someone else have to be like,how do I help others? It was for
me, right? And so like, I'veactually kind of instilled this
like new outlook of like a is itbringing me joy B? Is it

(31:25):
bringing my family likeanything, right? So like,
financially, or entertainmentwise, or whatever that looks
like? And then that kind ofeffort versus impacts? Like,
what's the impact that I'mactually putting out into the
world? Versus like, how mucheffort is it taking on my part
to do that impact, right. And soat least that's kind of my
tactics lately, but I feel likeno matter what I've I say yes to
almost everything. I was goingthrough this practice of saying

(31:49):
no to everything, and finallystarted saying, yeah, so I've
like, I don't know, like six orseven speaking gigs over like
the next few weeks, which I'mexcited about, but like, had
gone months of saying no. And Iwas like, Oh, this is what
happens when I start saying yes,again.

Pj Metz (32:05):
Yeah. I mean, you want to get involved and you get
excited. And you're like, yeah,that's neat. I want to do that.
Yeah, that's cool. I want tospeak at that. Yeah, that's fun.
I want to be the beta for that.
Like, even now just like lookingat Snapchat. I'm like, Man, I
got a lot of stuff I can go playwith now. Yeah. 100%. And you
for sure know about, like,taking on projects. I mean, you

(32:25):
took me on as a project that waswas I was your 2020 Summer of
the pandemic project. So like,so what do you what do you think
about like all this, like testedjust said she had to take a step
back almost. But like, what whatdo you think about all this
stuff?

Brandon Minnick (32:43):
Yeah, totally agree. Because I, I started
hitting that wall recentlymyself, where I just had too
many different things going onand was getting pulled in too
many different directions. Andyeah, I will say, I totally
agree with Tessa on it. If itdoesn't bring you joy. Don't do

(33:06):
it. I mean, yes, there's thingswe have to do. Like I don't find
joy in paying the bills, but Idon't want to the bank to
foreclose on my house. So I paythe mortgage, but I enjoy it.
Yeah, right. But yeah, like youryour job should be something you
enjoy. Your side projects shouldbe things also that you enjoy.

(33:27):
And and if they don't, that'sokay. Because you can always
change them out. But yeah, theFOMO is definitely real. I, I to
speak at a lot of conferences,and I definitely hit the pause
button during the pandemic, andeven mostly 2021 Because I
didn't, I much preferred inperson events. Then on my

(33:50):
conferences. I like conferencesjust felt like I was watching a
YouTube video or making YouTubevideos as opposed to actually
meeting people and hearing andsharing stories. And yeah, now
the conferences are starting tobecome a thing again, I'm seeing
folks post pictures on Instagramand Twitter and share the talks

(34:11):
that they're giving like, Ah, Iwish I could be there like,
like, all my favorite people inthis picture, and I'm not there.
So I'll have to Yeah, I have toread juggle some priorities to
get back on the road a littlebit. But yeah, just just be
careful. Because yeah, when youstart saying yes to not even not
even everything, there's justtoo many things, eventually

(34:34):
you'll hit that wall andrecognize that and it's okay to
say no, and it's okay to go backand let somebody know that, hey,
I bit off more than I can chewwith this. I won't be able to
get around to it for anothercouple months or maybe not ever.
And they'll understand Ipromise.

Pj Metz (34:53):
Open communication.
Honest and saying what's goingon, you know,

Brandon Minnick (34:58):
yeah, it's way better than like staying Up till
2am to crank something outbecause you made a promise and
you're worried about not beingable to fulfill it. If you just
if you let folks know, though,they'll understand it's

Pj Metz (35:09):
I definitely. I have an offer accepted right now for
September that I definitely needto write. But September might as
well be five years from now inmy brain. Oh, yeah. So listen,
DevOpsDays Chicago. Great talk,I promise. But it's still in my
drafts right now just waiting.
So yeah, I understand. Idefinitely love talking to

(35:32):
conferences too. And just goingand just being a part of that
excitement. I'm glad they'rehappening. Again, I think we
need to take a break, I think weneed our commercial break. I
think it's time speaking of badsegues, here's our Hi, if you're
hearing my voice, that meansyou've been listening to or
watching eight bits with Brandonand PJ. And we're here to talk

(35:54):
to you about your product. Andhow it can help you in your life
by to do whatever your productdoes. So if you're an avid
listener of the show, or youwatch us on Twitch, then you
will know that your product,your product is right for you.

Brandon Minnick (36:26):
That's right, we are looking for sponsors, we
recognize we're not gonna becomemillionaires off of making this
show. But hosting a website andstuff like that does cost money.
So if we can just break even.
And we can use your help. Sosend us an email Hello at eight
bits.tv. We'll get to talkingand we'll share your product on
the show with all of our amazingviewers. Now, Tessa there was

(36:50):
recently this whole swirl thatyou weren't necessarily involved
in, but around with yourprevious company fast. Could we
dive into that just a littlebit? And probably first of all,
if you will? Yeah, maybe first?

(37:14):
Let's Could you explain thekerfuffle and let's, let's chat
about kind of what happened withthe fallout?

Tessa Kriesel (37:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think PJ has like a reallygood sort of like a chat about
this, too, of like, sort of howwe met I think, which is could
be like a fun little additive.
But yeah, so I spent some timethat a company called fast. They
have recently shut down. So thatkind of gives you the TLDR were
that. Were in

Pj Metz (37:47):
mind on this story?
Yeah, yeah. Right. Right.

Tessa Kriesel (37:51):
So when I had started there, it was just kind
of like an interesting dynamic,right? And like going back and
like Hello, Tessa, you shouldhave saw all the red flags like
with how it even started, right?
Like, Dom the CEO, like reachedout to me, and he's like, oh, I
want to talk to every sale likespecifically came to me and
like, interviews are super fast.
Like, here's an offer we wantyou to join. They like
definitely have some, like, coola culture going on up in that

(38:14):
joint that like you just getsucked into and you think that
it's like positive culture, thenyou get there and you're like,
Holy hell, what did I get myselfinto? So yeah, I just, I had
there was just a lot of maleleaders, I was a male dominated
company. And for whateverreason, I don't know if it's me,

(38:36):
or if it's them. I tend to notalways like have the best
experience with like strong menbecause I don't back down I'm,
it's not that I'm like mean, orlike sassy. It's just that I am
I'm strong, right? And I've beenthrough a lot and so like, I
will speak my piece I will, youknow, raise my voice I will

(38:58):
share what I think matters andespecially when it comes to like
my experience and why I'm at acompany to begin with. And so
the lawsuit is public actually,if you go to my website, I've
got a blog post on it where Iwrote the whole story of what
happens then the whole lawsuitfiling and some links to some PR
stuff is there but essentiallywas like discriminated against

(39:18):
for being a woman mistreated innumerous ways. And so retained a
really amazing attorney actuallyone of like the best in the biz
in San Francisco. She workedagainst some test cases some
other like really big techcompany cases. She's absolutely
credible took my case on undercontingency was like really
excited to pursue that. And thenthey just decided like, okay,

(39:42):
we're just gonna shut down so mylawsuit had been filed about a
month before they decided toshut down maybe a month and a
half. And then there was apending lawsuit. They were
getting demand letters for somefrom somebody else who was going
to file a lawsuit as well. I'mnot saying like, of course,
that's what happened. But Ithink they you know, they just
had this like path of likedestruction. And I think, you

(40:05):
know, some of the legalramifications, maybe played into
it, I don't know. But yeah,that's kind of my summary
chickens

Pj Metz (40:13):
were absolutely coming home to roost on that situation.
And this is how Tessa and I met.
Tessa was head of Dev Rel fast.
And I saw her on Twitter talkingabout how she was going to be
building out a team, and she wasreally excited. And so this is
February of 2021. And I wasstill working as a high school

(40:35):
teacher. I had been coding withBrandon I had been coding with,
with Chloe Condon making Twitterbots and websites and all this
stuff. And Tessa and I met onTwitter, and she was talking to
me about what she was going tobe building and I was fully in
on what Tesla was building. Iwas excited about it. And I went
through the interviews and Iended up getting an offer from

(40:56):
fast that when I signed it on aSaturday afternoon. It was
rescinded by that Mondayfollowing Monday night. And that
Monday is the day that I put inmy two weeks notice at school.
And Tessa this was not a thingthat you were even aware was
happening because I remember Ireached out to you and you were
like, Yeah, this I wasn't told Iwasn't informed I wasn't

(41:20):
communicated with and they didit without talking to me at all.
So

Tessa Kriesel (41:25):
yep, I was actually being raffled leave, I
always like forget what thatword is. But
yes, that's it. That's it. Um,my grandma had recently passed,
man, I tell you what some of thetoxic stuff they did during
that, like when you come back towork, take all the time that you
can, and then would call me thenext day and be like, are you
coming back today? And like, youtold me to take all the time

(41:47):
that I needed. My grandma justdied? I just moved like it was
it was insane. But yeah, I hadno opinion. I wasn't even in the
office at that time. They callme like days, so they called me
on Wednesday, I'm pretty sureuntil you on Monday, they were
like, Oh, we decided to like,you know, rescind the offer. And
I was like, what, why? And so100% And like, I was the hiring

(42:07):
manager. So I'm like, what ishappening right now? Like, why
am I not being communicated to?
And essentially, like, theyended up having an all hands
afterwards. And they're like, Wehire the best in the best or the
best of the best in ourindustry. So like, you know,
they have to have basically likehave a reputation, right? They
just wanted to hire like famouspeople in their area of work
right. So that they could like,get the marketing ploy, because

(42:30):
like their whole end game waslike if we get the consumers and
we'll get we'll get thebusinesses right. And so I think
they were just like, how do weget as many people like loving
fast as possible. And I waslike, Y'all are a bunch of
idiots, you know that PJ a was ateacher, right? Like, going to
be amazing at writing in allcapacities and be his literally
spent the last like six to 12months sitting in documentation.

(42:50):
He knows good and baddocumentation. Like I can't find
a better candidate for atechnical writer than PJ. And
they're like, No, it's just notworking. I was like, Oh my gosh,
it's not sure. I should haveleft to like that in there. But
I made it.
And then yeah, it's the worstpart about it is I reported

(43:13):
everything that happened andthey fired me two hours later, I
was like, do not know the laws,like when someone reports
harassment, like you can'tterminate them. Like, how do you
not know how the actual likeemployment laws work?

Pj Metz (43:25):
Wild?

Brandon Minnick (43:28):
I mean, so what? Not, not that we're
looking to give advice to

Tessa Kriesel (43:35):
take it anyway.

Pj Metz (43:37):
Don't be don't do startups anymore.

Brandon Minnick (43:40):
Right. Yeah. I mean, what what you mentioned it
was a very male dominatedculture that led to some
toxicity. But what would be thefirst thing you would change? If
if you did come in and you tookover a CEO and you looked around
and saw this happening? Wherewould you even start to try and
fix this?

Tessa Kriesel (44:00):
Well, if I was taking over CEO then that meant
that DOM was gone and that wouldprobably fix a lot of it like
not to, like straight talk crapabout him, but like, see, like
your leader like plays a hugerole into it, right? Like what
is the culture that your leaderis instilling? And like they
would like sponsor likesnowboarders they sponsored like
a NASCAR. Like I wasn't therewhen they did this, but I don't

(44:20):
know if anyone saw like thehistorical like NASCAR burnout
that like he did in a car andI'm just like, why are you
spending your money on that andthen having to like, end up
closing your business down andbasically like making almost 500
People not have a job likeHello, just some like rationale
of like, how you spend moneyright and how you treat people
so I think he'd obviously begone. So then probably play a

(44:41):
huge role into the company beingin a better place, but I think
it's just you know, it's amatter of like, diversity and
culture, right? Like just likebringing all that in. I think
there's a lot of amazing peoplethat worked at that company, and
they were like drinking the KoolAid. I drink the Kool Aid like I
thought it was gonna be reallygreat.

Pj Metz (44:58):
I thought it was gonna be never happened to me. I was
like, I'm gonna get a sweatshirtand I'm gonna go snowboarding.
Diving. This is the life andlike I remember afterward going,
Oh, that all was really not melike really looking at like, the
way they were advertising andbeing like, this is not actually
vibing with like, I didn'tconnect, but I was so excited

(45:21):
and I was so like, ready tolike, honestly to work with you
tested because I was likelooking at your resume and
looking at what you had done andI was like, test is gonna be
great. And then on top of that,I was like, Ah, it's a cool
startup and fast life and fastculture and like, absolutely.
And what you just said aboutit's the CEO top down culture is

(45:41):
real.

Tessa Kriesel (45:42):
It is 100% 100% There was definitely some other
leaders in there that were, youknow, probably could have been
replaced. But I really do thinkthat like, that's a lot of where
it comes from, when you see aleader doing those things.
You're like, cool, this is whatwe should do. And it just, I
think it just spiraled rightinto, like the types of people
that brought in because likethat kind of egotistical person
brings in a lot of otheregotistical people. And like,

(46:04):
I'm not like that, like, I'mlike kindness first. Like, don't
get me wrong, like I saidearlier, like, I'll stand my
ground and I'll be strong, butlike, we do it in a kind way.
And I think that like peoplematter. Right? And so, yeah,
exactly.

Pj Metz (46:17):
They came to all kinds is

Brandon Minnick (46:20):
love it. I need that shirt. That will say it's
interesting, because my, my wifeis way more successful than I
am. She's been VP of head of HRat multiple companies. And yeah,
she works with the founders, theleadership teams a lot. And it's
interesting, because a lot oftimes she's in the scenario

(46:40):
where they're, they're still tooyoung, they're still too early
in their careers. She's workedwith a lot of late founders who
are in their late 20s That justhaven't they haven't made those
mistakes yet. And I've foundthat until you make that
mistake. Sometimes it's, it'stough, it's hard to hear advice,

(47:02):
because it doesn't make sense.
Yet. You're like, why would I doit like that? When I could do it
like this? And then you do itlike this, and just like, blows
up and you look around? You'relike, ah, that's why and, and so
it's interesting. Um, yeah, Idon't know, Dom I don't really
care to meet him. After whatI've heard and read the stories,
but yeah, I've found with in mywife's experience, a lot of

(47:26):
times, if if you just listen tothe experts in the room, you
know, you if, if he really ishiring the best people in the
world to do the jobs, then letthem do their jobs. So when the
head of Deborah L comes to youand says I found the perfect
candidate, believe her or inyour HR VP says to do or not do

(47:50):
something like trust them or,and it kind of also comes from
if you're the founder of acompany, you've probably worn a
lot of hats over the months, theyears, well building it, and you
don't have to do that anymore.

(48:11):
You've hired really smart peoplewho know more than you. And you
can also let them do it. Yep. Soit's, it's part

Pj Metz (48:20):
of, yeah, that's what they did.

Brandon Minnick (48:23):
Right? Yeah.
It's like get out of your ownway. Stop. Stop trying to
control everything becauseyou're not the expert anymore.
And then you have to make thosemistakes and watch stuff blow
up. You can just trust me.

Pj Metz (48:39):
Let go and let VPS do their job.

Tessa Kriesel (48:42):
Exactly. Have you all seen the Uber show? breakout
board toxic? Oh,

Brandon Minnick (48:49):
oh, no. Yeah, no Showtime essential. Okay, the
we work one. Also really good.

Pj Metz (48:59):
Haven't seen that one.
I saw that we work documentarybut not the not the
traumatization of Yeah,

Brandon Minnick (49:05):
we crashed.
It's Jared Leto in Anne Hathawayare a couple. Yes, Adam. I
forget his last name. Wild.

Tessa Kriesel (49:18):
I haven't seen that one. Super pumped. Uber
one. I just had to. I had togoogle it.

Pj Metz (49:21):
Super. Yes. So I started watching Joseph.

Tessa Kriesel (49:27):
It's so sad because I really really like him
is that yes, I love him as anactor. And I'm like, Oh, you
play such a horrible human beingI'm sorry. Like, maybe I should
be a little more filtered as Isay this, but like watching that
show was 100% me reliving thethings I saw it fast especially
the women that were like oh,hey, we got leather jackets for

(49:47):
all the dudes but like wecouldn't get a discount to order
enough leather jackets for thewomen so like you guys just
don't get anything you guysright like you women just don't
get Yeah, like what's superpumped? It's a it's basically
Like all you need to know aboutwhat it felt like to work at
fast 100%, at least for my

Pj Metz (50:06):
terrible, and like you said, like, later, they were
like, Hey, we only hire the bestof the best. And it starts to
feel like that's the reason Iwasn't hired because I didn't
come with anything. I'd like 200Twitter followers and like, you
know, 10 years of teaching kids,what do I know? So like that
Twitter thread, Dom actually puta Twitter thread out about that,
like a few days later, after myoffer was rescinded. It was

(50:28):
like, only the top 1% of peoplewe're going to stand for, we're
going to this. And it beforeanything ever came out about
about me, which Chloe Condontweeted about it, and it made,
it was the longest thread I'veever seen in my life. And it was
naming and shaming and walkingat don't like, Oh, my this is
really happening. But beforethat a bunch of people were

(50:48):
dragging that thread that DOMhad made, because it was like,
so if you're only hiring thebest, the best, and you only do
it off internal recommendations,what is your team actually look
like? And you're not updating?
Yeah, you're not? There, you'renot getting those different
experiences in there. And nowyou're limiting your scope of
what you can see and do as acompany.

Tessa Kriesel (51:11):
100% 100% There's a lot of things he fat shamed
some people at one point tolike, oh, yeah, he was smart
enough to delete that one.

Pj Metz (51:25):
Not smart enough to not write it in the first place.
Yep.

Tessa Kriesel (51:28):
Yep. People remember and people
screenshotted it, there's there

Pj Metz (51:31):
is a major difference in leadership, and not just
CEOs, but people who areleaders, there's a difference
between, I've gotten into thisleadership role, and I know what
I'm doing, and we're going to doit my way. And I've gotten into
this leadership role, I need tolisten to a lot of advice before
I make any kind of decision tomake sure I know what I'm doing.
Because I'm not the best, or youhave a realm of expertise. And

(51:55):
now as a person leadership, yousometimes have to make choices
outside of that realm ofexpertise. And it's just what
Brandon said, you have to listento the people who do have that
expertise. And you're talkingabout,

Tessa Kriesel (52:06):
well, especially if you're hiring the best of the
best. I mean, if you're bringingin the best of the best part,
you're not listening to them.
That's the part that blew mymind. Because like he said that,
and I was like, so he thinks I'mthe best of the best when it
comes to Dev Rel, right? And I'mlike, flattered? Maybe. But then
you're not even like listeningto me. So like, what value does
that bring? Right?

Brandon Minnick (52:30):
And it's interesting, because I've even
experienced this down at mylevel, the individual
contributor level, you know, I'mnot a manager, nobody reports to
me. But I've been on the otherside, where we've given feedback
to our leadership team saying,hey, looks like one of the goals
this year is this, and we don'treally think that's doable. But

(52:53):
here's some suggestions we have,like, we can kind of mold it
using X, Y, and Z. And yeah,I've been just shot down to
like, told no, we're still gonnado it. And like, so we just
explained to you that how it'snot going to work. And it's
going to fail, but you wouldrather see it fail so that we

(53:14):
can prove it's not going towork, instead of just listening
to us. And now we have to likedevote hours and weeks of our
life to this. That's I prefer todeal with personally. It's like
prove to me that this will fail.
It's like, didn't I just dothat?

Pj Metz (53:39):
Drawing of the thing with like, a bit over it. Like

Brandon Minnick (53:44):
it was a research. It was the weirdest
conversation because it wasn'teven like, oh, well, actually.
No, you're just looking at itfrom the other side. Let me
explain how I was visioning itlike, it wasn't any of that.
It's just like, Nope, we'restill gonna do it. It's like you
wrong.
Okay. And then

Tessa Kriesel (54:03):
imagine that it failed after you told them it
was gonna fail. I'm like realbad leadership out there real
bad leadership. And like,sometimes I'm like, how, how did
you get your job like, I blowsmy mind how you have gotten
here, like,

Pj Metz (54:19):
but when you find the leadership and like the team
that you love to work for, it'samazing what it does for your
productivity, what it does foryour critical thinking, for your
creativity. It's on real, how itcan all change. And even like,
like I said, I've only been intech for a year. But as a
teacher, I worked at twodifferent schools and under

(54:40):
three different principals. AndI can tell you, the leadership
changes the way everyone workskind of percent for different
principles. I just realizedthat's an important caveat
y'all, right? That's right. AndTesla, like I said, had it not
been for everything. thing thathappened at fast like either way

(55:01):
I was I was going to work for Iwas either going to work for you
or get to know you, but the waythat you treated me as someone
who was worthy to be there youwere my first tech interview,
the first person I ever talkedabout work, and you made me feel
like I belonged. And that's whyI started the show with Brandon,

(55:22):
making me feel like I belong.
And the history of people whohave been really important to me
and starting this brand newcareer are people who made me
feel like I was exactly where Iwas supposed to be. And that's
community. Oh, well, to bedetermined.

Tessa Kriesel (55:41):
But you're nailing it. That feeling

Pj Metz (55:44):
is so important. And that makes me want to do more.
So Brandon telling me he thoughtI could do it, Chloe hanging out
with me. You even offering me aninterview and a chance to talk
and then saying that you likedme enough to want to work with
me. It just meant the world tome. And so I'm so happy to be
here. I need to know from you.
Now that I've soldered you upand talked about how much I need
to know from you. You met mewhen I was young. And when I was

(56:08):
when I was young. I was 34. WhatI was starting my journey into
this brand new career, and itwas impactful to have met you I
want to know what advice youwould have for someone else
who's starting in community ordeverill, or tech or anything
within this space. what's someadvice you would give someone?

Tessa Kriesel (56:29):
Yeah, oh, I have so much here at my keynote next
week. Isn't next week already itis next week. It's actually
focused around this at thatconference. So if you're in
Texas, check out thatconference. Like there's still
tickets, there's a sale on thetickets. So check that out. But
I have tons of advice here. Andthat's why I'm doing a 90 minute
keynote on it. But kind of thethe TLDR really of my keynote is

(56:50):
is really about like givingback. So like you're in a place
right where you're gettingstarted. And you have to kind of
find a mentor, find someone thatyou can, you can trust. And
that's not always easy to do.
But there are a lot of reallygreat different kinds of niche
communities, depending on whatlanguage you're getting in like
PHP has a really great well, andthat's kind of where I started.
And I know they've got apowerful mentorship program,
they're, you know, they're kindof all over the place, right is

(57:11):
is these different kinds ofcommunities that will support
you. Get out there, give back asmuch as you can for me like, and
I'll kind of share the story ofmy keynote, but like, yeah, it
was Guitar Hero, getting intoGuitar Hero, building a
community, getting peopleexpanding the people that I
knew. And you can do that in avariety of different way. Like
go to in person meetups, go toonline meetups, start hanging
out and podcasts and livestreams like this, like, just

(57:31):
get in the chat, say hello topeople start to build a
relationship. It's crazy howstrong of a friendship you can
build with someone over Twitter,like PJ like I consider you one
of my dear friends like I adoreyou. I think you're amazing. And
like we've never met in person,we've only known each other
through Twitter andconversations like this. And so
go out there and like and try tomeet some people I know, that's

(57:52):
not always the easiest to do forsome of us who you know, like to
stay behind screens. But I thinkthe more that you can expand
your network to storm it'll beand then give back, like 100%
the TLDR for my keynote is likeinvest in others, or invest in
yourself by investing in others,right. And it's all about like,
give back every chance to getyou learned something super

(58:13):
small and conceptual, write ablog post about it, teach
someone else, like, every timeyou're hitting one of those
landmarks, like share what youknow, so that others can like
learn from you. And then there'sgoing to be this like two way
street of giving. You're gonnaget opportunities, you're going
to learn about opportunities.
Just it's, it's gonna be a greatcombination. So yeah, network
give back.

Pj Metz (58:34):
Especially giving back like that's, that's what drove
me into education in the firstplace. I felt like I just wanted
to share stuff with people. Andthey were like, well, we can
make 20 kids in a room be forcedto listen to you talk for 45
minutes at a time. So would youlike that? And I was like, Heck
yeah, let's make somerelationships. And I'm fortunate
that I'm in a job now where it'sall relationships and meeting

(58:55):
people and being earnest andauthentic with those people. So
it's very exciting. Tessa, I'mso thankful that we were able to
have you on the show. Like Isaid, You're someone I immensely
respect and look up to and Ijust one day we are going to
meet in person and we're totallygonna high five and hanging out
and just be able to chat andplay guitar play guitar hero.

Tessa Kriesel (59:20):
I am so so so so glad I got to join the show.
This is really cool. It's beengreat to meet you, Brandon.
Especially hearing that you'relike one of PJs like monumental
beginnings. Like, like I said, Ijust adore PJ and like, you
know, the friendship we'vebuilt. So like, kudos for being
amazing.

Pj Metz (59:37):
Hey, that's right.
You're the you're the pathway,right? You're testing without
even knowing it.

Brandon Minnick (59:44):
Cliff. Glad to help. PJ made it super easy. You
did. We just had fun. That's allwe did. DJ did all the hard
work.

Pj Metz (59:55):
Well, thank you for joining us on eight bits today.
And we're gonna see you all nexttime. Stay tuned to the website
a pets.tv and we will catch youall later. Thanks so much