#131 - "On Golden Pond" (1981) with Ben Carpenter & Bethany Wells - 80s Flick Flashback

Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
Universal Pictures proudly presents Katharine Hepburn.
You're my knight in shining armor, don't you forget it.
Henry Fonda want to dance? Or would you rather just suck
face Jane Fonda? It seems that you and me have
been mad at each other for so long.
Didn't we were mad at that? We just didn't like each other.
I I want to be your friend. On Golden Pond, rated PG starts

(00:31):
Friday at a theatre near you. This Academy award-winning 80s
flick is a captivating, emotionally charged drama that
beautifully captures the complexities of love, aging and
family. Set in the tranquil golden hues
of a New England lake, the film brings together screen legends
Henry Fonda and Katherine Hepburn and a final,

(00:52):
unforgettable collaboration. Fonda portrays Norman Thayer, a
witty but grumpy elderly man facing the challenges of growing
older, while Hepburn shines as his vibrant and supportive wife,
Ethel. When their daughter and her
fiance arrived for a summer visit, the peaceful lake becomes
the backdrop for deep reflections and heartwarming
moments of reconciliation. So power up the motorboat, grab

(01:14):
your fishing poles, and watch out for the rocks in Purgatory
Cove. As Ben Carpenter, Bethany Wells
and I discuss on Golden Pond from 1981 on this episode of the
80s Split Flashback Podcast. John Hughes and all his teen
dreams, monsages and simply themes in fairy's hands the city

(01:37):
fans living life like it never ends 18 bikes to the sky but
this club just getting by radical dreams and daring quests
back then we were all very. Well, welcome in 80s Flick

(02:10):
Flashback fans. I'm Tim Williams, the creator
and host of the 80s Flick Flashback podcast.
We are so excited to have you with us.
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(02:32):
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flashback merch and original designs.
Well, let's welcome back two of your favorite guest Co host.
Together they bring warmth, wisdom and a touch of humor.
Let's meet the podcast host, Co host.

(02:53):
I don't know why that's in there.
It's great to have Ben Carpenterback on the show, bringing his
insightful and reflective approach, much like a steady
anchor in our discussion. Welcome back, Ben.
Oh, well, thank you. What a what a nice introduction
there, yes? The steady anchor and bringing
her infectious energy and vibrant personality back to the
podcast is the delightful Bethany Wells, known for her

(03:15):
ability to uncover the Silver Linings in life with her
boundless curiosity. How you doing Bethany?
Oh, you old poop, I'm just fine.My wife has been calling me that
all day. It's.
So good. I I almost it's I'm glad you
were there because I, you know, I normally do like a quote at
the end and I was like, I shouldhave Bethany do or I should do

(03:38):
like the somebody's at the door and you go, it's me, you.
It's me, you old. Poop, But thanks for that, that
that was on my that was on my list of favorite lines.
So glad we got that. Got that one done early.
So we're talking about on GoldenPond, which, as I was telling
Ben before we started recording,Bethany has wanted to do this
episode since season 1. So it only took us five years.

(04:02):
We finally got here and glad we did.
When we were talking about 9:00 to 5:00 I think is when it.
First it so, yeah, because you had Jane Fonda and Dabney
Coleman and then we talked aboutit again during Steel Magnolias,
which is understandable. These are kind of very
complementary to each other vibes.
Yeah. I I have a type when it comes to
movies. Sad and funny, yeah.

(04:25):
I don't think we talked about this one on say anything, but
you know, there there's we, we it doesn't, it doesn't mention
on all of them. So.
We can go back and retcon it, just try to find.
Some way to find a way shoe? Gord Shoe Gorded in there.
So, but but yes, this is this isa movie that, yeah, I'm excited
to talk about. And this was the first time
watch for me and we'll get into that.
But Ben, we'll start with you. When did you see on Golden Pond

(04:49):
for the first time? I don't believe I saw it in the
theater. You know, I was, I was pretty
young, I guess I was eight or nine when this came along.
And I do remember watching it oddly, like a lot for the age I
was. I watched it a lot on I think it
was on HBO. It was.

(05:10):
Oddly, and I just, yeah, I, I saw it probably dozens of times,
I think mainly because the HenryFonda and Katharine Hepburn,
they both have aspects that reminded me of my grandparents.
And I yeah, I think that's what attracted me to the movie and

(05:31):
why I enjoyed it so much as a kid.
But yeah, I watched it a lot on HBO.
Yeah, what about you, Bethany? First time watch.
So I do have a very vague memory, obviously.
I mean, the movie came out before I was born, so I I didn't
see it when it was in theaters. My, my memory of it as I was at

(05:51):
my Aunt Tammy and Valdosta's house and it was on and we were
all watching it together and I just remembered, I don't know, I
was very young. So like I was probably 7 or 8
years old and I just have this memory of finding it just so
charming and just being intrigued by it, which is so

(06:13):
weird. Like watching it as an adult
now. Like there are things in it
where I don't know, certain themes of it hit me in a way
that I, there's no way I appreciated it as a 7 or 8 year
old. I think I just maybe what I
found interesting or the most interesting was just this kid
who was allowed to say cuss words and hang out with this old

(06:36):
man and like have fun on a lake with him as I think my big take
away from the movie when I was that age.
But it's just charming. It's lovely and it's charming.
Yeah, I guess as I said, this isthis was, I'm pretty sure this
was the first time I watched it.There were a few scenes that
seemed vaguely familiar, but I know we had HBO when I was a

(06:58):
kid, which looking back at with with the movies that were
covered and looking through a list, we probably had HBO around
8283. So, but I remember when this was
going to premiere on HBO and they ran the commercials for it
all the time, but it had just one, you know, Academy Awards.
It was a it was a huge box office hit.

(07:20):
So it was very heavily advertised.
But I remember as a kid, which and I was probably, you know, a
little younger than I think thenmaybe a year or two older than
me, but you know, not for throwing age out here, but
that's. The number.
Yeah, just yeah. So definitely, when I remember
seeing the commercials for it, Iwas like old people movie.
Like it was just like, not what I was looking to watch.

(07:43):
And, you know, I didn't know whoHenry Fonda was or who, you
know, Katherine Hepburn was theythat those were big names then
that I had no point of referencefor.
And of course, you know, later knowing Jane Fondo, probably
from 9:00 to 5:00 was probably the first movie I saw her in.
But but I remember it being a big deal of the two of them in a
movie together. I even as a young kid and

(08:05):
knowing about the movie as I gotolder, that's what I remembered
about the movie was it was the two of them together.
And that I vaguely remember thatit was kind of a parallel of
their lives of they were kind ofan estranged father and
daughter. And maybe that was something my
parents had told me when I askedabout it.
But but yeah, that's so that's, that's that's what I remember

(08:25):
about it from being on HBO. But like I said, I might have
watched bits and pieces if it was on.
That's why I may remember certain parts of it or it could
have, it could have been one that we watched as a family.
And I just, I probably wasn't asengaged with it as a kid, but I
did watch it with, you know, being in the same room while it
was on. There's a few movies I have of
that was like, I know I rememberbeing in the living room with it

(08:47):
being on, but I couldn't tell you anything, anything about
anything happened in it. So.
But yeah. So.
So how long has it been since you rewatched it before
rewatching it for the podcast? I'll let Bethany go first on
this one since. You can't.
Figure that out. Since since I I don't have an
answer. No.
I think it's been a few years since I've seen it.

(09:09):
I have it on DVD but our DV DS live in the basement and so if
it's not like in hand I'm not always quick to remember to go
watch it. But I feel like it's been in the
last decade or so. OK.
What about you, Ben? Yeah, not me.

(09:29):
I don't, like I said, I watched this a ton in the early 80s and
then I don't think I've seen it since.
I and honestly, like what you said, it's totally different
experience watching it at age 52than at 8:00 or 9:00.
And yeah. And so there was I, I, I really

(09:53):
just remembered a, a few. Like I didn't remember anything
about it going into it and then watching it, I was like, oh,
yeah, OK, this, this feels familiar.
This, this scene. I remember this now.
But yeah, it was it was interesting to see it again
after decades. Yeah, I think one thing that
stuck out to stuck out to me wasthe music.

(10:15):
I must, I must have heard that theme a lot because it felt so
familiar. You know, I can't tell you the
last time I heard it, but it hadto have been something that was
played a lot, either on TV or. During all those commercials.
Yeah, or it's been used in otherthings that I didn't know that's
what it was from. But it was like, like this tune
just sounds so familiar. So that was that was one thing

(10:37):
that kind of caught me off guardwatching it today was like this
theme is like like it's embeddedin my psyche, but I can't I
can't tell you where I'd heard it before.
So that was that was the interesting part.
But but I do remember like the one line I would do remember,
but they showed so many times inthe commercial was the, you
know, you're my knight in shining armor, you know, line,

(10:58):
which was really good. So but yeah, that that's but it
was soon she said that line was like, you know, nostalgia bills
went off like Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding.
I know that I know that line, you know.
All right. Well, let's jump into story,
origin and pre production. There really wasn't a whole lot
on this one, which was, you know, kind of interesting with
being such a, you know, as big of a movie as at the time.

(11:18):
But here's what I've got. Ernest Thompson wrote the stage
play on Golden Pond at the age of 28.
While he'd been able to support himself as a working actor, he
had gone a year without landing any work.
The dry spell allowed him to pursue his interest in writing,
although he cannot He can't say exactly what inspired the play.
He credits his boyhood summer lake trips to Maine with his

(11:40):
family as a source of special memories.
Through the series of lucky Opportunities on Golden Pond was
produced Off Broadway in 1978. It was published the following
year by by Dramatist Play Service.
In 1979, it won the Broadway Drama Guild's Best Play award,
and in 1980, Jane Fonda saw it performed in Los Angeles.

(12:02):
Sure that she had finally found the right script to give her the
chance to act with her father, Henry Fonda, she bought the film
rights and hired Thompson to adapt it.
She said. I could hear my father saying
those words. She called her father, who at
who at first balked because the he felt the part was too small
for her. But Jane was excited about this
golden opportunity to bridge theemotional gap that it separated

(12:23):
them. Their relationship had always
been strained. He had a lifelong reputation of
being distant and cold and Jane fiercely independent and no
stranger to controversy. She realized time was running
out. It had been her lifelong dream
to work with him on film, and she thought the role might earn
the elusive Oscar for him. Her production company quickly
raised the funds, and shooting started quickly thereafter.

(12:45):
So this was really a, you know, a passion project for her.
But I didn't know that it would,you know, Of course, I didn't
know much about it, but I didn'tknow it was based on a play.
But watching it, it definitely has that.
It feels like that. That diabolically.
At the beginning, especially at the.
Beginning, yeah. Like you can just picture the
the cabin being on a stage. And I think there that Katherine

(13:07):
Hepburn was in one of the stage productions of it as well.
So she was already pretty well established in the role.
So for sure. But yeah, so that's that's
really all I've got as far as pre production so.
Yeah, one of the one of the things that I had heard was that
she had been actively looking for a movie that her father and

(13:27):
her brother could win an Oscar for.
Right. Right.
And she realized that her her father was running out of time
and and so she read this and shewas like, well, there's not a
part for my brother, but my dad for sure.
Yeah, I did read in one like, not in all the research, but in
one thing. It did talk about how when she

(13:48):
got it, she wanted a part for her brother as well, but they
couldn't find a way to fit him in in any kind of substantial
role. So not without it being weird.
Yeah exactly like yeah don't want her to play the boy the the
fiance, that would just be too yeah not weird, not good yeah I
was even surprised by how small the cast was 'cause we, we we're
going to jump into casting and we'll be done with that in about

(14:10):
5 minutes. I'm.
Doing. That again, it's like kind of
makes you go like, Oh yeah, thatis a play, 'cause there's four,
there's really four people in it, 55 or 6. 4 1/2 you know,
'cause I mean, even, you know, Bill Senior is there at the
beginning and that's pretty muchit.
You know, he has a pretty small role and even her role, Jane

(14:32):
Fonda's role is, is minimal as well.
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(16:56):
casting. So despite their many common
acquaintances and long careers in show business, Henry Fonda
and Katherine Hepburn not only had never worked together, but
it never met until actually working on the film, which I
thought was fascinating. I was pretty.
Wild for that time period, they did.
They were both so prolific, it'skind of surprising.

(17:18):
Yeah. But as we as we about to talk
about Katherine Hepburn, she waskind of known to be not really
in the Hollywood. Yeah.
She she kind of distanced herself from Hollywood.
Yeah. So I could see how she wasn't at
the parties or the award shows as much to be kind of, you know,
rub elbows with people like that.
So let's talk about Miss Hepburnas Ethel.

(17:39):
After graduating, she began landing small Broadway roles,
gaining attention for Art and Misses Bottle in 1931.
Her big break came in A Warrior's Husband in 1932,
leading to film offers and a contract with RKO after the
success of A Bill of Divorcementin 1932.
She won her first Academy Award for Morning Glory in 1933 and

(18:02):
starred in the successful movie Little Women, also an
adaptation, in 1933. However, her off screen behavior
included wearing slacks and avoiding interviews led to
criticism. After a string of flops from
1935 to 38, she returned to Broadway with The Philadelphia
Story in 1938, a hit that allowed her to return to
Hollywood on her terms, resulting in the successful film

(18:24):
of the same name in 1940 and herthird Oscar nomination.
She starred alongside Spencer Tracy in several films,
including Adam's Rib in 1949, while receiving further
nominations for roles in The African Queen in 1951 and Guess
Who's Coming to Dinner in 1967, the latter earning her a second
Oscar win. In the 70s she in the 70s she

(18:46):
shifted to made for TV films andappeared occasionally in
features like On Golden Pond as we're talking about here, which
garnered her 12th Oscar nomination and 4th win.
After writing her autobiography in 1991, her last film was Love
Affair in 1994. She retired in the mid 90s and
passed away at the age of 96 in Old Saybrook, CT.

(19:09):
So. Yeah, she is a fascinating human
being. Like there's so much about her
that I, I think we'll never knowbecause she was pretty private.
But like, the stuff we do know about her is just really cool.
I'm I'm not really familiar withher too much as a person now.

(19:32):
Now I'm interested to learn whatyou're talking about, but I did
when I first met my wife. She was really into those old
Tracy and Hepburn movies and we watched them all.
I remember, I would say the onlyKatharine Hepburn film that I
probably was familiar with, my grandfather really like The

(19:56):
African Queen and he would watchthat like if it was on TV, he'd
have it. And I think when we introduced
him to the VCR, you know, moderntechnology VCR in the in the mid
to mid to late 80s, that was oneI remember us going to the video
store and renting Gone with the Wind.
And the African Queen I was like2 movies I fell asleep on but.

(20:21):
That's a that you could watch those two movies and by the time
you finished both of them, they were due back at the video story
might actually be late. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely so.
And I remember like my grandfather, favorite memories
of him was watching, I think we started Gone with the Wind at
like probably 7:00 or 8:00 at night.
And of course the movie's like 31/2 hours long.
And he was like sitting on the edge of his chair and he's like,

(20:43):
I just wanted to say frankly, mydear, I don't give up.
And so I can go to bed. Anyway, good memories.
So, but yes, that's that's the only thing that I really would
have recognized her from. I've probably seen someone like
I've I've seen Little Women I'veseen.

(21:05):
Guess who's coming to dinner? Guess.
Who's Coming to Dinner and the The Philadelphia Story?
So there's some that I've seen since then, but definitely I
haven't watched Adam's Rib. I've heard good things about
that one too, but I've never seen one so.
Yeah, she's just got such good comedic timing.
She's she's just very endearing and charming.

(21:27):
But also what I really love about her is she's very
especially in her like older stuff is she is she's so
groundbreaking of being like a very take charge.
Person, right? Right.
And, and that kind of played into the, you know, she wore
pants like I was telling. Her She wore pants.

(21:48):
She did like that was a big deal.
Like Philadelphia Story. Her walking around with pants on
was a huge like groundbreaking thing because women didn't wear
pants. They and and she did it
unapologetic, got it unapologetically.
Words are hard, trust me, you really are.

(22:12):
But yeah, and then, you know, she also, she dated, she's
famous for having the affair with Spencer Tracy.
But you know, they they had an affair for years.
But he was Catholic and married and refused to get divorced,
Right? Right.
So it was, it just continued. It was a very public affair.
Like everybody knew it was happening, but that's just what

(22:35):
it was. And she dated Howard Hughes.
Yeah. For for a few, for a little
while and. Yeah, I remember that from the
movie The Aviator. So I do, you know, I get most of
my history for lessons from movies, so you know, whether
that's right or not. She also this is all rumoured,
but it was rumoured she had affairs with women as well so.

(23:00):
I could see that I'm not not saying because of the pants.
That would be the thought in that at that time was or if you
don't wear pants. She obviously loves women well.
Well, specifically, like while she was dating Howard Hughes,
she lived with another woman. And you know, I, I don't want to
get too blue on your podcast, but there were certain things

(23:20):
that Howard Hughes was known for.
And one of those things was not being able to perform.
And she she had a very long relationship with a woman that
she lived with. And they were they were
roommates. And I'll leave it at that.
All right? It's never been confirmed.
Yeah, stay tuned for our side project with Bethany and I will

(23:44):
call it. She wears pants.
We're covering movies. She's covering movies from the
30s and 40s and the. It'll be Katherine Hepburn
movies basically. The amazing women that made them
so yeah, that'll be that'll be afun little fun, fun side
project. So coming to a podcast platform
to you so. I love old Hollywood stuff, so
like, if you let me talk too long, I will.

(24:08):
No, it's good. That's all stuff that I didn't
didn't have in my notes, but I did.
I mean, honestly, what I had, I had to like, you know, simplify
because it was so much. I mean, no matter what bio I
pulled up for Katherine Hepburn,they were all like six or seven
paragraphs. It was like, how do you condense
this? Like, there's so much
fascinating stuff in there. It's like, OK, I got to make it
a little shorter. Granted, we're going to talk

(24:30):
about four, you know, 4 cast members or five.
So it's not going to. It's not Christmas Vacation will
take as long as the movie lasts to go through the cast.
But I did also hear that when Jane Fonda approached her about
being in this movie, Jane Fonda just looked at her.
Katherine Hepburn looked at her and says, I don't like you.

(24:51):
But they they grew to have a pretty good relationship.
Well, good. She was pretty.
She, from what I heard she like,took on a role of an overbearing
mother, which is something Jane Fonda never had.
Yeah. So it was an interesting dynamic
between the two of them. Yeah, yeah.

(25:13):
I saw I didn't read as many of those stories that there were a
lot when I was reading research for.
There was a lot about, you know,Jane Fonda talks about her
relationship with Katherine Hepburn and I was like, I
there's so much about her and her father already.
I'm like, I didn't want to go down that road.
So so but yeah, I but there weresome stories that I out read
about other things where that she was there got rooting her on
in certain scenes and, you know,being kind of the support.

(25:35):
So I was like, yeah, I bet I could see that being, you know,
after we, you know, for those who didn't miss our missed our
last episode on Hoosiers. You know, everybody knows Gene.
Gene Hagman is one of the greatest actors of all time.
And I was, you know, sad he was passing.
And then we decided to do an episode on Hoosiers and find out
he was a complete jerk the wholetime that made the movie.
It's like this does this doesn'twork for me.
You know, it's supposed to be nice, but.

(25:57):
That's why when you do the 90s podcast and we'll cover the bird
cage and surely he got his act together by then.
Oh yeah, we'll find out. Yeah, I'm sure so.
But yeah, but he, it was, you know, but it doesn't take it
away from his. It doesn't take away from his
work. Like I, I still appreciate him
for what he brought to the role,even if he was, you know, not
the nicest person on set. But we talked about that on

(26:19):
plenty of episodes where you find out people are not nice on
set. Next up, Henry Fonda.
Yeah, we're getting there. Yeah, we're getting there.
Yeah. So I thought this was cool.
Barbara Stanwyck was actually oncall to replace Hepburn in the
event that she was unable to appear in the film because she
had had surgery just before production.

(26:40):
Stanwyck had teamed with Henry Fonda and Hunt.
I keep some fonder Henry Fonda in three earlier movies, The
Lady Eve in 41, You Belonged to Me in 41 and the Mad Miss Manton
in 1938. So they had her kind of on
standby, but they didn't need her.
So before filming, Mark Rydell, the director, was warned by
fellow director George Cooker. Cocker cooker.

(27:03):
I'll say Cooker. Yeah.
That Katharine Hepburn would test him to see how well she
could work with a new director. On the first day of filming, she
arrived at the set dressed in a black silk polo neck shirt,
matching trousers, a beautiful brown suede Taylor jacket and a
matching sort of Robin Hood style hat.
And she declared herself, quote,UN quote, ready for filming.

(27:25):
Rydell refused to shoot as she was not in the intended
wardrobe. It caused an argument on the set
for quite a while, causing an embarrassment to the crew, until
she relented and taken to her dressing room, which was cabin
by the lake. Nonetheless, the first day's
filming managed to be completed.That was the test Hebburn had
set on him, knowing that if he couldn't stand up to her or
didn't know the material well, he risked being fired from the

(27:46):
production. So that was her test.
But yeah, I'm ready for my closeup.
And he's like, no, you're not. But you know what, like if he
was a new director working with people like Henry Fonda and
Katharine Hepburn, you can get like in that in your headspace

(28:07):
of like, no, these are legends. I can't tell them no.
And she, I mean, I'm not saying I agree with that tactic, but
also like, you know, it's kind of AI don't want to work with
somebody who's not going to likelay down the law.
Right, not going to be assertiveand and someone who has a vision

(28:27):
for the movie. Like I said, knowing the knowing
material will like your character's not going to wear
that in any scene, so why would you think that's going to be
acceptable? But once again, is he willing to
stand up to her and tell her we're not going to, we're not
going to start filming until youget in your proper costume?
So yeah. I would die like if Katherine

(28:48):
Hepburn said like, I'm ready formy close up and she's in like a
ball gown and I'm like, OK. Are you sure?
I could. You want to go sit and think
about it for a minute. But yeah, well, you know, that
was kind of the same, like the new directors got the same thing
that happened on Hoosiers. I hate to keep going back to the
last episode, but go back and listen to it.
But you had a brand new screenwriter and a brand new

(29:10):
director, and you've got Gene Hackman, who's already won an
Academy Award or been nominated a few times.
So he came in like, this is not what I thought it was going to
be. And by the end, he was pleased
with how the film turned out, but he just felt like these guys
are in over their head. They don't know what they're
doing. But it all worked out anyway.

(29:31):
So all right, moving right alongto Henry Fonda as Norman.
On screen and stage, Henry Fondaoften portrayed every man
characters. He was born in Nebraska and made
his Broadway debut and entered Hollywood with a film in 1935.
He gained fame with roles in Jezebel in 1938, Jesse James in

(29:53):
39, and Young Mr. Lincoln in 39,earning an Academy Award
nomination for his role in The Grapes of Wrath in 1940.
He starred in the classic screwball comedy that Lady Eve
in 41, and after serving in World War 2, appeared in
acclaimed westerns like The Oxbow Incident in 43 and My
Darling Clementine in 46. He took a seven-year break from

(30:13):
films to focus on theater, returning in 1955 with Mr. I'm
Sorry, Mr. Roberts. Notably, he played the title
role in Hitchcock's The Wrong Man in 1956, and starred as
Juror 8 in 12 Angry Men 1957, the film he Co produced, earning
a BAFTA award. Yay, 12 Angry Men.
Yeah. So later, Fonda took on diverse

(30:34):
roles, including A villain and Once Upon a Time in the West in
68 and the Lead in Yours, Mine and Ours.
He portrayed military figures infilms like Battle of the Bulge
in 65 and Midway in 76, And he won the Academy Award for Best
Actor for his final role on Golden Pond.
And he passed away five months later.
So yeah, this was his swan song film for sure.

(30:57):
He was the patriarch of a familyof actors, including daughter
Jane, son Peter, granddaughter Bridget and grandson Tony.
In 1999, he was named the 6th greatest male screen legend by
the American Film Institute. What a movie to be like your
your last. One.
Yeah, yeah. I will always remember him as
the second best performer as juror #8.

(31:22):
Yes, fan, Absolutely. Who was first?
Don't do that, don't do that. For those of you that don't
know, we did the production of 12 angry 12 angry jurors of 12
angry men a few months ago and Iplayed juror 8IN that
production. So they're thank you, you're too
kind. Excellent.

(31:43):
Oh, thank you. I appreciate it all that that I
will say, and I've I said it to the cast as well.
The most difficult production I've ever not difficult as far
as bad, but like the hardest, like lines to memorize and just
you know, is being on stage for the entire play.
No, no breaks. It was a it was a challenge for
sure, but but the the payoff wasextraordinary.

(32:06):
So one of my is one of my favorite movies and a role that
I really wanted to do and it it it turned out well.
So don't give me emotional already we're talking about.
Something else. It's a fantastic production.
No. No, this is just like an
appetizer to the emotions that are coming.
Late Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And those that don't know
Bethany's husband Laramie was the director of our production
of 12 Anger and 12 Anger jurors.So yeah, so very good, very

(32:29):
good. So, so there was rumored, I, I
saw two different accounts that one that was that Jimmy Stewart
actually wanted to be, have the role but wasn't able to get the
rights before Jane Fonda did. And then there was another one
saying that the producers wantedto give the role to him, but he
declined. And I'm like, that seems like 2

(32:51):
very polar opposite stories. So you know, which, which part
of the Internet do you want to believe?
But his name did come up and I could see I could see him as
being another great actor to putin that role, but I don't think
he would have brought the same the same personality.
Like I think, and not that I've seen a lot of Henry Fonda
movies, but this role didn't make me think I'm watching Henry

(33:15):
Fonda. I feel like I was watching
Norman where Jimmy Stewart has such a certain, you know, way of
just like putting Christopher Walken in a movie.
It's like it's Christopher Walken.
You just can't you can't take the accent and the like some of
the Katherine Hepburn. I mean, she has such a distinct
vocal style and, and delivery. So putting somewhere else,
someone else in that role is notgoing to be the same.

(33:37):
They, they, they make it their own.
So but I think he, he made that character what it was for sure.
So. Yeah, Jimmy Stewart just had
such a strong on screen and consistent on screen persona
through his through all of his movies that just doesn't fit
with this. And, and even if he had played
it well, it would have felt like, you know, this is Jimmy

(33:59):
Stewart playing curmudgeonly, right?
You know, rather than yeah, likeyou said, I think Henry Fonda
embodied it more. I also feel like Henry Fonda,
like, while not like this is Henry Fonda playing Henry, it he
that was his personality like inreal line on Creed was that it

(34:21):
was his that was the relationship he had with his
daughter. It wasn't an easy relationship.
It was very strained. They had to actively try to work
with each other and like throughout filming, they had
trouble where she was trying to reach out and make a connection
with him and he was like actively resisting it.

(34:43):
And you, you get that tension. You feel it.
Yeah. Watching the two of them
together. All right, moving on to the
daughter, Jane Fonda as Chelsea.We've talked about her as well.
We'll do a quick recap. She rose to prominence acting in
the comedies Cat Ballou in 1965,Barefoot in the Park in 60,

(35:07):
Barefoot in the Park in 67, one of Bethany's favorites,
Barbarella in 1968, Fun with Dick and Jane in 77, The
Electric Horseman in 79, and of course, nine to five in 1980.
She established herself as a dramatic actress, winning two
Academy Awards for Best Actress for Roles in the thriller Klute

(35:29):
in 71 as well as Coming Home in 78.
She was Oscar nominated for TheyShoot Horses, Don't They in 69,
Julia in 77, The China Syndrome in 79.
She was nominated for In Golden Pond and The Morning After in
1986. After a 15 year hiatus, she
returned to acting in Monster inLaw in 2005, with Jlo Youth in

(35:49):
2015 and Our Souls at Night in 2017.
Of course, my wife knows her most from Grace and Frankie on
Netflix, which is nice. During the production, I had to
put this in here, Jane Fonda LEDearly morning aerobics classes
for the cast and crew. So if you did not grow up with a
Jane Fonda workout as a kid, youdon't know what you're.

(36:12):
So she was, I mean, that was, she was almost known, known more
for that as 80s kids than anything else.
Like, I mean, her career before that was a little before our
time, but the aerobics. No, yeah.
In the 80s, like, you know, JaneFonda and leotard and leg
warmers was just everywhere. Everywhere.
Yeah, yeah. Exactly so.

(36:34):
She suffered from an eating disorder for a lot of her life.
She was bulimic and her startingthose aerobics classes and
getting really invested in that is she contributes that to her
getting away from bulimia. And she so, yeah, that's why she
is. She was such an advocate for it.

(36:56):
It kind of also kind of played into her feminist ideals of just
like you can take control of your body, you can take control
of this and feel good about yourself.
And so that was where a lot of that came from.
Bethany is a well of knowledge this week.
I love it. I love old Hollywood.

(37:16):
We can tell. So, all right.
And then a smaller role, but Doug McKeon played Billy Ray
Junior. I didn't really recognize him,
but he was performed. He performed in the television
series The Edge of Night. He acted in films Uncle Joe
Shannon, for which he was nominated for Golden Globe
Award. He was also in Night Crossing
and a little movie called Mischief that's also an 80s

(37:38):
movie. If you haven't seen it, it's
pretty fun. It's with Kelly Preston is in it
and Katherine Mary Stewart, but he's the main character that he
looks much. I mean, he was older, of course,
in Mischief, but but yeah, it was kind of fun to see him in
this is like a younger, like a much younger kid.
But Anthony Michael Hall auditioned for the role but

(38:00):
didn't get it. So he went on for to become
Rusty instead. He goes well.
And then the late, great Dabney Coleman is Doctor Bill Ray
senior. He was recognized for his roles
portraying ego mania. Ego maniacal.
Is that right? Ego maniacal.

(38:22):
Ego maniacal. Maniacal.
First one, yeah. All right, I'll try that again.
He was recognized for his roles portraying egomaniacal and
unlikeable characters and comedic performances.
I'm going to stop putting words in my notes that I can't
pronounce. That's going to be throughout
this stuff. Yeah.
No. Who?
Who's. Get my script writer on the
phone. Hello.
Yeah. Don't do that anymore.

(38:42):
OK. All right.
Throughout his career, he appeared in over 175 films and
TV programs and received awards for both comedic and dramatic
performances. Notable films Here we Go,
There's this. I can't fit them all, but these
are our favorites. Nine to five in 80.
Tootsie in 82. War Games 83.
Cloak and Dagger in 84. One of all time favorites.
You've got Mail in 98. His significant TV roles

(39:05):
included Mary Hartman. Mary Hartman from 76 to 77.
He was a title character in Buffalo Bill in 83 to 84.
The Slap. Maxwell Story, 87 to 88, and he
was on the show The Guardian from 2001 to 2004.
Later in his career portrayed Lewis the Commodore Kasner on
Boardwalk Empire from 2011 to 2011.

(39:25):
His final role was an appearanceon Yellowstone in 2019.
As a voice actor, he provided the voice of Principal Peter
Prickly on Recess from 1997 to 2001 and in several movies based
on the series. But yeah, always been a fan of
Dabney Coleman. Loved.
Recess. I didn't realize he was the
principal. That's amazing.
Yeah, so, but yeah, Cloak and Dagger, that's when we were

(39:48):
talking about before the podcast, before we started
recording one of those movies I can't find anywhere.
Like I would love to watch Cloakand Dagger.
And it was on. And that was that was when I was
on HBO all the time as a kid too.
And I found it. We we watch.
Me and my wife watched it probably.
Eight or nine years ago, but I don't remember like what it was

(40:08):
on or how we found it. But it was only on for like a a
small town, small amount of time.
So, so when he pulled out of thearchives.
But yeah, Henry Thomas and Dabney Coleman, one of my
favorites. Yeah, I mean, this is a great
example of of why he was great because he's really on screen
for 10 minutes. But he really, he, he makes such

(40:31):
a strong impression in those 10 minutes.
You know, gets gets a lot of laughs and, you know, I mean,
even physical comedy, which you didn't see him do a lot of in
his career. But like when the boat is
drifting away and he's like, what does someone do in this
situation? That is the funniest like little
bit like as at first you're kindof like, OK, what, what what is
up with this guy? Like is he going to be kind of a

(40:52):
jealous but and clearly and thenand then he does that little bit
and I'm just like, OK, OK, he can kind of laugh at himself.
That's fine. Right.
Right. All right, let's get into iconic
favorite scenes. So here we go.
When someone says on Golden Pond, what's the first scene
that pops in your mind? Only part that I remembered

(41:15):
going into it was I remembered that there was something about
an accident out on the lake. And yeah, so I I knew, I knew
that something like that was coming.
So, and you know, I mean, I remembered the the banter
between Hepburn and and Henry Fonda and the, you know, the old

(41:37):
you old poop and the and kind ofthe way way, you know, Martin
Shorts impression of Katharine Hepburn.
Is. Mostly taken.
From her in this. Movie.
Yes. Yes.
Yeah, so I, I, I remembered little bits like that, but yeah,
not, not a lot going into the day.
I'm pretty sure the kind of likewhat Ben was saying.

(41:59):
Just the banter between Jane Font, Jane Henry Fonda and
Katharine Hepburn and just I think a scene that like really
makes an impression is when he is like getting dressed for his
birthday party. It's like, how do I look?
And she goes, you look sexy. Just like I love that so much

(42:20):
because I I turned to Laramie atone point, like I think it was
during that scene and I was like, that's going to be us,
right? Like that's this is definitely
us. Because like when she says like,
you're probably one of the best people on the planet.
I'm just the only one that knows.
Right. Yeah, that's a good line.
That was a. Good line.
And it's so, it's so like he's he's just so like their

(42:42):
relationship and their dynamic. Like when they're on the boat
and they're looking at the loons.
Anytime she sees the loons, it'sjust so precious to me.
And then they're on the boat andthey see the loons, and then the
other boat comes and chases themall, and Henry Fonda flips from
the bird, and then she doesn't. Don't do that.

(43:02):
You did it. So funny.
Yeah, yeah. It's it's established very, very
early, like they're jabbing at each other, but it's how they
communicate. Like it's never mean spirited.
It's just them, you know, they've been married so long
and, and you know, me and my me and my wife, we have those same
conversations. And sometimes Hannah will be
like, what do y'all are y'all OK?

(43:23):
We're like, oh, we're just, you know, we're just, we're just
picking at each other. It's not a big, you know, big
deal. But yeah, so, yeah, definitely,
you know, seeing that as when you get older.
But yeah, the the scene at the end, you know, we're not going
to we'll spoilers, but if you listen to the podcast, you know
we're going to spoil it. But you know, when when he's you
think he's having a heart attackand of course he probably is
something going on. She gives the medicine and he's

(43:44):
like, I feel better now. I'm, you know, my SO just like
I, which I was kind of waiting for.
It was like, he's going to pop up here in a second.
Like, this isn't how the movie'sgoing to end, is it?
Like, please don't tell me the movie's going to end like this.
No, although I'm sitting there the whole time going like, you
still need to call the vet, you still need to go to the doctor.
Right, right. Please.
Please still go to the doctor. If nitroglycerin fixed it, it's

(44:05):
his heart. Go to the doctor.
Go to the doctor, please. Yeah, And then she's holding on
to like, I love you so much. I love, you know, it's just.
Like that, you know. I mean, I think it's the
relationship that we all, you know, hope we have.
At that age. You know, like, yes, they
they're jabbing at each other, but it's always in a fun way.
And you know, and they're like complimenting one another too.

(44:29):
Like he's like, you look sexy, you know, right, You know.
Yeah. Then what was it?
He he was doing something. He's like, why'd you do that?
I was trying to turn you on. I'll never do that again.
It's like, well, good. And then, oh gosh, this, the one
moment this made me laugh so hard when she like Jane Fonda's
gotten there and she's like, move that vase of flowers to the

(44:52):
other side of the table. And he's like, why?
He's like, just do what? I asked.
You to say is. Do one time.
Right, right. Oh, it's so good.
And he picks it up and spills the water all over.
Spills water all over the place.I mentioned the line about the
lighting, shining armor, like that's that like that, that's if

(45:12):
someone asked me about what's what would be iconic for me, it
would be that line being spoken because that I've that was so
emblazed in my mind as a kid because that was where they
played on the commercials over and over and over again.
So what about favorite scenes? Do you have a favorite scene?
I'll go first on this one because I didn't want anybody
else to take it. My all time favorite scene.

(45:34):
And there's good scene. I mean, there's it's a very good
movie. I will say that.
But my all time. Yeah, my my all time favorite
scene is Norman and Billy Senior's first meeting
conversation. Like the whole thing about, you
know, we want to, you know, spend the night or sleep in the
same room. And just that whole back and
forth is like I said, I laughed more than I thought I was going

(45:57):
to watching this movie. And there were a lot.
And not just that scene, but other like little clips that
they had. But that that exchange with the
two of them is just so well done.
And just once again, very much like written as a play.
Like I could see that on stage just killing, you know, with a
live audience. So and the two of them just
perfectly, you know, perfectly timed and perfectly.

(46:21):
Been playing off one another, yeah?
Exactly just it it it worked so well.
So that was that's by far my favorite scene and there's other
good scenes as well. So, but I'll let y'all.
Know that tension between DabneyColeman and Henry Fonda of like,
Dabney Coleman's trying to be cool and be like, I'm pretty
sure he's messing with me, but what if he's not?

(46:42):
And Henry Fonda just stays stoicthe whole time so he never
knows? Like, should I be laughing?
It's that awkward moment when you first meet your partner's
like parents of like, I want to make a good impression and I
don't know what to do with you. Right.
Yeah. And he makes the comment about,
you know, and you know, your, your daughter told me about you.

(47:04):
You know, you, you like to play with people's heads.
And she does that some too, likekind of throwing that back at
him. Just kind of see what kind of
reaction he's going to get and he doesn't get the kind of
reaction he expects. But yeah.
But I love the first one was when he's like, so you're
turning 80, huh? How does it feel like turning 40
twice or something? Twice as bad as turning 40.
Twice as bad as turning 40 because that was a great, great

(47:26):
line. So it just that quick delivery
and just you know, stone face delivery was perfect.
Yeah, I I liked another line about getting old was when Billy
Junior says, you know, man, you're really old, and he says
you should meet my father. Yeah.
Yeah. Oh, your father's still alive.

(47:47):
No, but you should be there. You should even meet.
Him. Oh, that is good.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I probably probably
would have talked about the samescene too like that that
watching it again today, that was probably my favorite scene.
It's just it's the sharpest writing I think in the movie,

(48:11):
and it's just really funny, really well done.
Yeah, I do like the scene of them, you know, of course, the
boat accident in the Purgatory Cove where he goes over and then
they're, you know, Billy, Billy Ray Junior, you jumps in to save
him and then they have to hang over the rock and then her going
out to find them. Like that whole.
That's a great scene as well. Just the, you know, good

(48:33):
attention building scene. Then I love the next day when or
I guess a couple days later because like I'm going to the
store, you guys. OK, like, yeah.
And then they watch and they tryto sneak out just like where you
going? And so that was that was good.
It's like I'm tired of playing on the, you know, we playing
puzzles or whatever, playing games the last four days or
whatever. So I will say, like for APG
movie, there was a lot of customers.

(48:54):
There was a lot of customers in this movie.
So I was, I was a little shockedby that in watching it the day I
was like, wow, they really, you know, they really, they pushed,
they pushed the envelope, you know, no F bombs or anything.
But this is pretty strong, whichI would probably see as a kid my
age, my my parents probably didn't want me to see it because
there was that much. I remember my Mama complained to

(49:15):
the language in Karate Kid when it came out.
And so I kind of let you know what kind of upbringing I had.
But yeah, but at the same time Iwatch, I watch the RoboCop.
I mean, I watched Terminator with my parents, so you know,
violence, no problem. But don't you say those words
anyway? Well, as Norman says, it's a
really good word, yeah. It's a really good word word.
You like that word a lot, don't you?

(49:36):
Yeah, it's a good word. It's a good word.
I I love, I love that scene because you don't know where
he's going to go with when he when he points that out and he
and he's not. It is a good word.
And I think that is the moment when Billy Ray Junior is just
like, OK, maybe I can talk to this person.
Yeah, I think, I think he, he hewent against the expectations of

(50:01):
what Billy Rick expected him to be.
He's probably heard the stories.He's just a grumpy old man.
He you're going to make your life miserable.
And then he kind of found out like, well, he's not as bad as
everybody made him out to be. Maybe he's there's something
there. So.
But yeah, I do like that, you know, go ahead.
Sorry. Go ahead.
Oh no. Go ahead.
Another another scene that I really liked.

(50:21):
You know, it's kind of somewhat cheesy your little, you know,
expected, but when she does the backflip at the end, you.
Know that was actually the sceneI was just about to.
Talk about oh, OK, All right, Sowe were, we were thinking the
same thing. So, yeah.
So I well go ahead. Well, I was just saying, like
that moment, it's the moment before and she's talking to
Katharine Hepburn about how, youknow, she she just wants to have

(50:44):
that kind of connection with herdad, Why can't she have it?
And she says, like, what are youwaiting for?
He's he's 80 years old. When do you think he's going to
change? When do you expect that to
start? Yeah.
Yeah. And so like she, she's just
like, OK, I'm going to do it. Which, you know, probably many
times throughout her life, she'stried to approach her dad and

(51:04):
have a relationship with her dadand has been shut out or cut off
and it hasn't gone the way she wanted it to.
And she's felt she's felt betrayed because she was being
vulnerable. Like you get all of that just in
like the moments of her. Jane Fonda does such a great job
in this movie for as little as she is in it, she's like you,

(51:27):
you get so much. And then she finally tells him,
like, I got married and and he has the reaction she wanted,
like the one that she told her mom, like, what's he going to
do? Say like, oh, I'm so proud.
Good for you. It's like he's not going to do
that. He's not.
And she's like try and he does, he's genuinely happy for her and

(51:50):
he's, he's excited because that means that Billy Ray Junior is
going to be in his life more. And then they, they do the
backflip and it's, it's just, it's a good like closure moment.
So I, I, I like that scene just because it does give some kind
of closure. And then apparently a behind the

(52:10):
scenes thing is that when they were filming it, like during
rehearsals, Jane Fonda could cryjust whenever.
But then when they started filming, she couldn't cry
anymore. And so finally, she just, like,
reached out and touched her dad.And his reaction was so like,

(52:31):
like he didn't know what to do. And and it made her have the
emotional reaction. And she was so impressed by his
reaction. And then that's the scene that
that's the cut that's in the movie.
Yeah. And it's just like he was
clearly kind of like angry with her for doing something that
they didn't rehearse, but held onto it and used that emotion

(52:54):
for the scene. And and then she started crying
and it was just, it is nice. It's a nice idea to think that
one day apparent that you have astrained relationship with.
There's still time. Like, as long as they're here,
there's time to build that relationship.

(53:14):
Yeah. Yeah, that made So I I started
watching this late this morning.My wife was in the room and my
daughter was in the room and I turned it on.
I was like, I have to watch thisfor the podcast tonight.
And I, you know, I didn't know if they were going to pay
attention to it or not. About 5 or 10 minutes in, maybe

(53:39):
not even that, my wife gets up and goes to get her glasses.
That's that. That tells me, you know, she's
interested. Yeah, 'cause.
That's. To be able to see this, right,
Right. Right, that's that's her tell
like some things I turn on. She just sits there and she's
reading or whatever not, but if she goes gets her gets her to

(53:59):
get her glasses. I know she's she's starting to
enjoy it. So, and by the end the, the
backflip scene and, and, and everything, she was, she was,
yeah, she had tears streaming down her face.
So, yeah. My daughter, on the other hand,
I asked her, So what you think? And she said, oh, I wasn't

(54:20):
paying attention. She sat in there the whole time.
Ruby paid attention a little bit.
She was in and out. She started reading the new
Hunger Games book that just cameout, which is excellent by the
way, and but she was paying attention and like the scene
where they get into the boat accident, she was genuinely

(54:42):
worried. And.
She was just like, and I just had to turn to her, 'cause I
can't like, let it. And I was like, he does not die
in this movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You seem concerned it's going tobe OK.
They do not die. The 80s flick.
Flashback Podcast will return after these messages.

(55:09):
What seems to be the problem, pal?
There's so much pain in the world, so many issues, I don't
think I can bear it. Hell friendo, it sounds like you
could use a dose of pop culture roulette.
Pop culture roulette? What's that?
Some sort of pop culture theme podcast or something?
That's right, sunny boy, when hope seems far, dive into some
PCR. But I already get my

(55:29):
entertainment news from Variety.That's pretty good if you're a
Shucklehead. PCR gives you news you need
condensed, unfiltered and raw from three nerds.
You know a little something about something.
Wow. OK, sign me up.
That's the spirit pop culture roulette new episodes every
Monday available on all major podcast directories.

(55:55):
All right, well, let's jump intosome other trivia, maybe make us
think about some other scenes aswell.
So did you know the brown fedoraworn by Henry Fonda belonged to
Spencer Tracy and was given to Fonda by Katharine Hepburn on
the first day on the set? Overwhelmed by the gesture,
Fonda painted a still life watercolor of the three hats he

(56:19):
worn the film and gave the original to Hepburn as a gift.
He had 200 Lilligraths made of the painting and sent one to
every person who worked on the film.
Each copy was numbered and personally signed by Fonda,
thanking each person by name. In her autobiography, Hepburn
wrote that she gave the paintingto screenwriter Ernest Thompson.

(56:39):
After Fonda's death, she found the painting to be a sad
reminder of him and of Spencer Tracy.
Oh. Now I'm going to cry again.
Yeah, I know. I'm like, you can, you can
handwrite a painting to all these people that you worked in
the movie with, but you can't have a conversation with your
daughter anyway. So right.
So, but once again, shows that that was he was a professional

(57:01):
and that's what, you know, when we came to movie making, that
was what he did when it was home.
It was a different, different story.
So I read the story that you talked about Bethany, about her,
you know, not being able to cry.And the the one I saw said like
when she was having the issue, she wouldn't look at, she
couldn't look at Henry Fond, Henry Fonda, because she was
afraid he was going to be like, Oh, here we go.
Can't. Even do the scene without you

(57:23):
know. And she turned and realized that
Heburn was in the bushes off site.
And she's the only person I can see her.
And she was kind of giving her like, you know, this, you know,
gesture, like, come on, you can do it.
Don't, don't give up. Don't, don't lose this scene or
whatever. So I thought that was really,
really cool. But the kind of echo what you
had said during that scene, JaneFonda told the following story

(57:47):
about it. She said, I reached out and
placed my hand on his arm as I said, I want to be your friend.
What I saw amazed me for a millisecond.
He was caught off guard. He seemed angry even.
This isn't what we rehearsed. Then the emotions hit him.
Tears came to his eyes, then anger again as he tensed up and
looked away. I loved him so much just then.

(58:08):
It amazed me what a great actor he was, in spite of his fear of
spontaneity and real emotions. As you mentioned, that take
appears in the film, so I just thought that was, I mean, and
you can see it. I mean, it's it's and it's the
bad thing for me is like I read this before I saw the scene has
a bad. I try not to do my notes before
I watch it. When it came to that scene, I

(58:31):
expected it to be longer and notthat it needs to be longer, but
it's enough there like it it does what it needs to do without
milking it, for lack of a betterterm, like it just but it's
there. Like you see the emotion hit him
at that moment and it's it it looks genuine and kind of
knowing the story behind it. It's like I almost feel like it
was his, like I don't want to have this reaction, but I'm

(58:54):
having this reaction. This reaction I need to have for
this part, but I don't want to have it.
And like that, that kind of inner struggle he's having in
that moment comes through so. I will say if I have a
criticism. No, that's not allowed.
I'm just kidding. Or something that I yes, I'm
sorry, Bethany. Sorry Dim's fine words.
Careful. Me.

(59:16):
The whole other daughter storyline felt rushed and sort
of clipped and yeah. I can see that.
Without the context of this is Jane Fonda's real dad and they
really had a strange, strange relationship like that.
And knowing that, yes, I, I get how that can kind of be like

(59:37):
sort of the basis to make it work.
And, you know, and it's just forme because like I said, my wife,
that's what made her cry at the end.
And she has a great relationshipwith her dad.
So it's not really about that. It's just, you know, it it hit
her and it it to me like there'sso much else about this movie
that does work on a higher level.

(01:00:00):
To me that just felt a little rushed.
But but yeah, like I said, it's if you have that sort of context
and that, you know, those kinds of stories, that really sort of
elevates it a little bit. I.
Not that this movie needs me to defend it, but I will anyways.
I do feel like, I don't feel like it was like and now it's

(01:00:23):
all better. It's like now they are finally
he is acknowledging that he needs to open the door.
She has made a point to open thedoor and now they are going to
start having a conversation likethis is not a button.
This is the end. It is this is the start, which
is why I think it's important that he didn't die at the end of

(01:00:46):
just like they just started, like they are just now going to
start working on it. And so, yeah, I get, I get what
you're saying of like it seems like it kind of wanted to brush
over everything and seem like everything was fine now.
But I kind of like to look at itas they're both putting down

(01:01:08):
their gauntlets and they're going to start working towards a
better relationship. Maybe it was it was her calling
him Dad that felt a little bit rushed and unearned in me.
Like it felt a little bit like, that's a jump.
Like she's probably been callinghim Norman for a lot of years.
Right, right. Yeah.
But yeah, so maybe without. Yeah, I could see that too.

(01:01:30):
Yeah. Good points.
Good points. Yeah, right point counterpoint.
I like. It Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Stay tuned. Next week, catch these.
Hands, yeah. Stay tuned next week when they
we bring them another thing to disagree on those game.
So this is fun. I'll this is a little bit
longer, but the house used in the film was leased from a New

(01:01:52):
York physician and was modified significantly for the shoot.
An entire 2nd floor was added asa balcony over the main living
area at the request of the production designer.
After the shoot, the production company was contractually
obligated to return the house toits original state, but the
owner liked the renovations so much that he liked to keep the
house the way it was and asked the crew not to dismantle the

(01:02:13):
second story. A gazebo and a small boathouse
were also relocated during the shoot.
The set was dressed with personal items supplied by the
Fondas and Katharine Hepburn, including a photograph of young
Hepburn standing beside a plane during flight training and a
picture of Henry Fonda and his youth examining model airplanes
with his friend, actor Jimmy Stewart.

(01:02:33):
So they did turn it into like a little touristy place that you
can go to. And I did see a lot of articles
about, you know, go, you can, you know, go there.
And they have like a little touron the lake and show you the
different filming sites for the for the movie so.
Where maybe you said maybe I missed it.
Where? Where is it again?
What? Where is the.
Filming New Hampshire. Yeah, I actually filmed in New

(01:02:55):
Hampshire. I think it's set in Maine, but
they but it was in New Hampshireyet.
OK. So one reason I will plan a trip
to New Hampshire. Just for that.
Just for that. Yeah, the Purgatory Cove scene
was shot in late September. To keep warm in the cold water,
both Doug McKeon and Henry Fondahad to wear wet suits under

(01:03:18):
their clothes. But the water level was so low
that they could have easily stood up and been only knee deep
in the lake, which I thought waskind of funny.
That's a relief. Yeah, Katherine Hebburn was
supposed to have a stunt double perform her dive in scene, but
she insisted on doing it herself, and she dove into the
frigid water without a wet suit.Apparently Hepburn was familiar
with swimming and cold waters onthe eastern coast of the US and

(01:03:40):
regularly showered in cold water.
So. Yeah, When she dove off the
boat, I was like, what are you doing now?
There's three people in the Yeah.
Yeah, that's like, what are you going to do?
You go to. Someone.
She's such a character. Yeah, exactly.
And then she's struggling to geton the rock.
I'm like, oh God, don't all three of them go?
Down now they're all going to drown.
Right, right. And you got that one post office
guy who's. Yeah.

(01:04:01):
Right. He's going to save them all now.
Right, right. Last two little things.
The rest will be in the show notes.
So about the Oscars we mentionedis Oscar nominated and it did
win. So Henry Fonda and Jane Fonda
were the first parent and child to receive Academy Award acting
nominations for the same film. This was for Best Actor and Best

(01:04:21):
Supporting Actress respectively.The only other time that this
has happened was when Diane Laddand Laura Dern were both later
Oscar nominated for Rambling Rose in 1991.
On Golden Pawn is also the only time that a film's two top
billed lead actors playing a married couple, namely Henry
Fonda and Katharine Hepburn, wonAcademy Awards for Best Actor

(01:04:41):
and Best Actress. Jane Fonda lost her nomination
to Maureen Stapleton for her role in Reds, but both Catherine
and both Katharine Hepburn and Henry Fonda won her 4th is
first. Jane Fonda accepted the
statuette on behalf of her father, who is too I'll to leave
home. An hour later she was by his
bedside with her family and typical fond of fashion, he

(01:05:03):
simply whispered it was in the wind.
Jane still calls that night the happiest moment of my life.
Henry Fonda died five months later.
In her autobiography, she concludes I was grateful for
having had on Golden Pond with him and that had managed to tell
him I loved him before it was too late.
I could feel myself making peacewith the fact that though he
hadn't given me all I needed from him, he'd still given me

(01:05:26):
plenty. And Bethany's crying and we've,
we've, we've made it. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you
for tuning in. We've got Bethany.
We did it. We can.
Thanks for listening everybody. We'll see you next.
Next challenge make me cry. Yeah, yeah.
Challenge accepted. Let's see.
This is final tap, not. Heart make me cry.

(01:05:48):
I can make Ben cry from laughing.
We'll try that. But I'll, I'll make this.
The last little trivia note on Golden Pond was remade as a
stage musical and as a 2001 CBSTV movie starring Julie
Andrews and Christopher Plummer.A Broadway revival of the
original play opened in 2005 at the Court Theatre starring

(01:06:10):
Leslie Uggams and James Earl Jones, though it closed early
due to Jones coming down with pneumonia.
So I did read that that it has been like it has been done with
white and black cast and still works on the which I think I
think is great. So.
But yeah, yeah, I don't know about the musical that that
might be a step too far, but the.

(01:06:31):
But I do want to go watch the TVmovie now.
I didn't realize it was ATV movie as well, so all right.
Box Office on Golden Pond was Universal's Big American
Christmas release in the USA for1981, though the film was also
distributed in some territories by 20th Century Fox.
Conan the Barbarian was supposedto have the Yuletide time slot

(01:06:52):
instead, but when Universal deemed the film too violent for
a Christmas release, it was pushed back for a later release
in 1982. I think that's hilarious because
we'd actually planned to record Conan the Barbarian the the same
week, but it got pushed, so thatthought that was hilarious.
That's funny. Yeah, didn't know that was at
the time, but On Golden Pond opened as a limited release in

(01:07:12):
just two theaters on December 4th, 1981.
And it came. And it came in second behind
Reds, which opened in 396 theaters the same weekend.
That's impressive. Yeah, it remained in the top ten
through December end of January at still just two theaters when

(01:07:34):
it went. It got a wide release on January
22nd, it landed at #2 but took the top spot the following week
and it stayed number one for sixweeks.
It ended up being the second highest box office winner of
1981 behind Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Well, if you got to lose to something.

(01:07:55):
Yeah, I mean, hey, so. And I didn't even mention the
the movie that was #1 January 22nd, because it was a movie
I've never heard of before. It sounds like it's not even
worth like, what was it? Whose life is it anyway?
Has anybody heard of that one? I didn't even look.
Yeah, something's familiar abouthim.
OK, that does sound familiar, but I would need more.

(01:08:17):
Yeah, it's like I I couldn't tell you who was in a dream
about life yesterday. Yeah, sounds so familiar.
Ben and I put up IMDb. Yeah.
What? I thought was whose line is it
anyway, that was that was aroundback then.
Yeah. Ben's looking it up, Richard.
Dreyfuss. Yeah.
Oh, Dreyfuss. Oh.
Yeah, yeah. Yep, Yep, Yep, Yep.
I have seen this. OK.

(01:08:37):
All right. It's it's been a long time, but
yeah, I remember this movie. Is it worth adding to the list?
I don't know 7.3 on IMDb. I would think if we all had to
look it up on IMDb, it's probably not going to do too
well on the ratings or, you know, for the for the podcast,
but. Got a 70% on Rotten Tomatoes

(01:09:00):
based based on 10 reviews. All right, well it's it's now
time for the rewatch ability nostalgia meter when we take a
look at how well this 80s flick holds up today.
The all new rewatch ability and nostalgia meter is our way of
measuring how enjoyable a movie is for repeat viewings along
with waves the nostalgia it brings.

(01:09:20):
Here's how it works. It's a one to 10 scale.
Any number between 1:00 and 10:00 will do, but here are a
few parameters to help you decide down at the bottom of
number one. I saw it once and that was
enough. Right in the middle of a #5 is a
good rewatch every couple of years and the rare to get #10
highly rewatchable and full of nostalgia.

(01:09:41):
So you can give us any number between 1:00 and 10:00.
But Bethany, we'll start with you because I kind of know where
this is going to go. Where does Golden Pond land for
you on your rewatch ability, nostalgia reader?
I it, it is such a charming movie and I'd leave it.
I walk away from it. I've felt all of the emotions

(01:10:03):
that a person can feel while watching a movie.
It feels like, and, and I do have a sort of nostalgia to it
and it it makes me feel so good after I finished watching it.
So I'm going to rate it really high and I'm going to give it a
9.7. Wow, wow.

(01:10:28):
I think that's the highest rating we've gotten so far.
I'm very biased, I see. That's fine.
I I your honest opinion. Yeah, there is no wrong author.
It holds a very special place inmy heart and just watching it
again today, it just touched a lot of feelings and I just it
made me feel good. So, and like I said, there were

(01:10:51):
multiple times where I turned toLaramie and I said this will be
us. Like you're not.
Asking anymore? You're telling him.
Right. It already kind of is us.
It's just eventually we're goingto be old and it'll be cute.
Right now it's just annoying. Yeah, yeah, I mean that, but
yeah, that mean be honest. I mean, that's why that's why I
kind of got away from this critics ratings and stuff

(01:11:12):
because it's a rewatch being nostalgia just like it it's it's
where it lands for you and it's going to land for everybody a
little different. And that's that's OK.
So what about you Ben? Where does it land for you?
Well, I would say other than theone criticism I already made and
and the fact that the music a couple times, I felt like, OK,

(01:11:33):
the the music doesn't really need to be trying so hard to
make me feel what the music is telling me to feel.
But that that's really more of that's just of the time that
just sort of dates it like that was that was the way movies used
to be. But other than that dating it
like it really felt like yeah, yeah, it pretty much holds up

(01:11:55):
the acting and and the the writing especially like I I did
not watching it as an 8 year oldor whatever.
I I didn't pick up on how crisp the writing was and the the back
and forth banter and just like, well, like the good, the great
one liners that they gave to Henry Fonda.

(01:12:15):
And so you know, I, if it's a rewatch ability rating, I
haven't seen it in decades, but I would watch it again like
tomorrow, like if with my son orsomebody else who you know,
hasn't seen it before, I would sit down and watch it again.
So I'll give it a 8.2. Three.

(01:12:35):
OK, A2. 3. OK, I'll I'm getting very
specific decimal points are are winning today.
I like it. I like it, yeah.
So for me, it's it's going to bea little lower only because of
the nostalgia part, because thisisn't something I watched as a
kid. There were a few nostalgia bells
like the soundtrack and the shining armor line, but rewatch

(01:12:57):
ability I could see watching this again and probably on a
maybe not frequent basis, but I would probably want to watch
this every couple of years kind of a thing.
So I'm going to put my more likea 6.5, which I think is still
that's still good. So how dare you?
Oh. I'm blasted by my own Co host.

(01:13:17):
Well it's great to have Bethany been here for the last time.
No, I'm just kidding. Thank you for cheating for their
final performance. No, but I mean that I would say
that for being the first time watch.
Like if I watch this again in a couple of weeks or next month,
it'll probably go higher becausethe nostalgia will probably, you
know, pick up more and but it's,it's hard.

(01:13:40):
It's hard on these that are the first time watches to kind of
graded in that way because it doesn't have those nostalgia
that really kind of bumps the numbers up I think a lot more
so, but. OK, but the second time you
watch it, you're going to catch the metaphor with the loons.
Yes, the loons. The loons, because you know,
they see the loons. The loons are a couple, they're
a married couple. And then when they go to the the

(01:14:02):
Cove of danger that I can't think of purgatory.
Cove. He finds the dead, the dead 1,
and so his his thought. He doesn't say it, but he's
thinking that's me. And then now my my other loon,
Katharine Hepburn is alone. But then at the end of the
movie. They're they're together.

(01:14:25):
Together, Yeah. And I'll see the he's going.
To cry again, yeah. Don't worry, I'm that's my
superpower. I'm always crying.
Yeah, and then he makes the comment about the, you know, the
third one went to California or something, you know, so that was
that worked. And there we win again.

(01:14:45):
All right, well, thank you guys.So.
Much. Well, thank you all so much for
being a part of this episode. Always a pleasure to have both
of you on the show. So thank you, Bethany, so much
for being a part. Always a pleasure.
Thanks for choosing this movie for us and you're welcome and
and I'm glad you did so. And Ben, thanks for joining in

(01:15:06):
the fun. I'm glad you were able to.
Yeah, I'm glad I was. I was on this one too and got to
I, I wouldn't have watched it again otherwise.
I'm glad I did. Yeah.
Very cool. Oh.
Thank you, Bethany. It's it only took, what, four
years? Yeah, 4 1/2 years.
Stop that. Yeah, you and you and Nicholas,
because Nicholas has been askingfor UHF.

(01:15:28):
So if I'll do that in a couple months.
So this was this was the season of like put those, you know,
cash in those requests like you're going to do this movie.
So and we'll get to this is Spinal Tap in 2026.
So for for Ben. So just.
Hold on. Everybody gets 1 and that's it.
I was getting I'm an old poop. All right, thanks everybody for

(01:15:49):
tuning in. Thanks for for listening.
Please send us an e-mail send reach out to us on social media
like us give us a a great review.
We appreciate you listening to to this show.
We got more great stuff coming. Got some fun things happening
this summer. More details to come, but thanks
again for tuning in. I'm Tim Williams for the 80s

(01:16:10):
flick flashback podcast Wanna Dance Or would you rather just
suck face so. Good.
Yeah, the. 80s we will run whereevery day is just pure fun.
Coonies. Never say Friday your mind.
In those films we lose our mind.John Hughes and all his teen

(01:16:50):
dreams, monsages and simply themes In fairest hands, the
city bends. Living your life like it never
ends. You're still here.
It's over. Go home.

(01:17:14):
Go.

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#131 - "On Golden Pond" (1981) with Ben Carpenter & Bethany Wells

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#131 - "On Golden Pond" (1981) with Ben Carpenter & Bethany Wells