#134 - "Conan the Barbarian" (1982) with Gerry D & Laramy Wells - 80s Flick Flashback

Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
Warrior Thief. Conqueror, King Conan, let us
take. The World by the.
Road to make it Give us what we desire.
Conan the Barbarian, we do that.This 80s flick stands as one of

(00:35):
the defining fantasy films of our generation.
Set in the harsh mythic world ofthe Hyborian Age, the story
follows the epic warrior on his quest for vengeance against the
sinister Falsa Doom, the necromancer who destroyed his
village and left him an orphan. Upon its release, the flick
garnered mixed reviews, praised for its stunning production

(00:55):
design and thrilling action, butcriticized for its heavy dose of
violence and subpar acting performances.
Despite this, it was a box office hit and found lasting
success and home video markets. So grab your steel weapon,
prepare for battle, and watch out for snake arrows as Jerry D,
Laramie Wells and I discussed Conan the Barbarian from 1982 on

(01:18):
this episode of the 80s Quick Flashback 5, John.
Hughes and all his teen dreams, monsages and simple themes in
fairness hands the city fans living life like it never ends.
18 bikes to the sky by this clubjust getting by.

(01:43):
Radical dreams and daring questsback then the world very fast in
the 80s. We will run where every day is
just pure fine booties. Never say die.
They're your minds and those things we lose our minds.

(02:05):
Welcome in everybody to the 80s flick Flashback podcast.
I'm your host, Tim Williams. Glad to have you on this
episode. We're always excited to have
you. If you enjoy the show, please
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(02:25):
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awesome 80s flick flashback merch and original designs.
Today we're joined by two fearless warriors of the
podcasting world. They've wielded their swords of

(02:46):
knowledge and sharpened their wit and preparation to explore
the harsh lands of Hyboria. First up, we have a man who
might not conquer kingdoms with his brute force, but he's
certainly a master at unravelingcinematic lore.
It's Jerry D from Totally Right Christmas.
How you doing, Jerry? Hey, what's happening Tim?
No, I definitely am not strong enough to conquer kingdoms with

(03:08):
force, but hopefully I can with the 80s Christmas knowledge.
There you go. There you go.
And what says Christmas more than Conan the Barbarian?
Yeah, next we got the kind of guest who will make you feel
like you've been drinking the waters of life with him by your
side. We'll certainly be thinking
deeper about the story of Conan,as he knows that, like the

(03:30):
Mystic wizard, knowledge is power.
From moving panels. It's Laramie Wills.
How you doing, Laramie? I don't.
Want to waste too much of my dialogue so.
Yeah, the the. The Grunting of Arnold is our
our our early introduction to him.

(03:52):
So much fun. So yeah, Conan the Barbarian,
what an epic movie we're going to talk about.
So let's jump right in, Jerry. When did you see Conan the
Barbarian for the very first time?
Very first time was the mid to late 80s.
I remember I'd actually seen Conan the Destroyer more often.

(04:13):
And then my cousins were, you know, I was talking about Conan
the Destroyer with him was on. And they're like, oh, I prefer
the first one. I was like, what are you talking
about? And sure enough, so I had my dad
rented and I probably saw thingsthat I shouldn't have seen when
I was, you know, at that age. But I saw it and I loved it.
And yeah, it was. It was awesome.
And they were right. It was better.

(04:36):
What about you Laramie? First time watch.
I honestly don't know, but you know me.
It was probably. On.
TV. Yeah, at some.
Point Yeah. You know it's probably only like
an hour and a half long once youedit it for TV, right?
But yeah. But honestly, I cannot pinpoint
when. And I don't know, Like Jerry
said, I don't know if I saw Conan, Barbarian or Destroyer.

(04:58):
I don't know which one I saw first.
So it wasn't until, I would probably say within the last
five years that I could actuallytell you the difference between
the two. So right, I got to.
Yeah, I'm kind of in the same boat.
Like I remember this was one that my dad watched.
I remember when it came like when it premiered on HBO and my

(05:20):
dad, we they had the, we had Upstairs Downstairs house and
the living room was downstairs where the TV was and I had to
stay upstairs while he watched the movie downstairs in the
living room like I wasn't allowed.
It was an R rated. I guess he already knew that it
had like nudity in it and of course was going to be very
violent or whatever. And so so I remember him

(05:42):
watching it and me not not beingand me like trying to sneak down
the stairs to like hear through the door what I thought might be
going on in the movie. No clue.
And of course, all you heard was.
Runting Arnold? Yeah.
We didn't know if that was a fight scene or a sex scene.
Right, Yeah, I didn't even know what a sex scene was back then.
That's. True, yeah.

(06:04):
But you still don't after watching this movie.
That's a little of both, yeah. Little call of a little of call
of B, Yeah, There you go. Yeah.
But I remember seeing Conan the Destroyer of course when it came
out later and so it so talking about how long it'd been since
you rewatched it. So I probably saw this movie
from the beginning, as is in thelast 10 years.

(06:27):
But I I'm like Laramie. I think at some point, like as a
teenager, it had to have been onTBS or USA or one of those cable
channels. And I probably watched a highly
edited version because they're parts of the movie.
Like I remember seeing this, like I remember the the him in
the paint, like the, I guess theWarrior paint when they go into
the Tulsa Dunes sanctuary or whatever.

(06:51):
Yeah, so like I. Remembered like, like seeing him
like that I remembered. And there was other, some other,
like there's other scenes that Ikind of remembered, but so.
Yeah. So how long it been for you
since you re watched it? I, this is one that I watched
quite frequently. OK.
I remember in college I I was collecting VHS because it was
still VHS back then. Why not?

(07:12):
Yeah. So I remember this one I bought
and watched whenever my roommatewas like out of town.
It'd be like just hanging out watching throw this one on and
then purple follow it with purple rain and you know, they
go so well, but but yeah. And then so I, I tend to watch
this one at least once a year, sometimes two or three times,
just depending because I don't know.

(07:33):
This one is super nostalgic for me and it does bring back
memories of, again, like I said,my cousins and things like that.
So the last time I I saw it, like saw it, saw it not for this
podcast was this past like November.
OK, what about you, Laramie? Oh, we actually covered it on
moving panels about 3 years ago.Yeah, I, I was, I, I remember us

(07:56):
covering the destroyer and I waslike, did we watch?
Like did I watch it for your podcast or not it?
Was it was Chad that was OK gotcha for that one.
But. Yeah, yeah, OK.
About 3 years ago did did Conan the Barbarian and that was the
last time I watched it up until you asked me to do it.

(08:17):
So it is. Definitely not a yearly watch
for me. I understand all.
Right, well, let's jump into origin of pre production and I
asked Laramie because he's covered on his podcast and
because he is the guru of comic bringing comic books to the
theater or to the screens with his moving panels podcast, I

(08:38):
asked him to give us a little history lesson on how Conan
became came to the comics and how the comics LED it to this
adaptation. Yeah, so obviously not
originally a comic. It was a group of novels created
by Robert E Howard back in the 1930s.
However, Marvel got the license to turn it into a comic book in

(09:01):
1970 and their original run, which would last from 1970 to
1993 would run 275 issues. They would kind of blend some of
Howard's original stories in andand he's still a comic today.

(09:22):
He is no longer with Marvel. Marvel lost the rights and I got
to look real quick. 2023 and currently Titan Comics through
their heroic signatures publishes it and they've gone
back to a more like pulp style with with the stories and all.
But he did get to join The Avengers before they lost it.

(09:45):
Yeah, he, I mean, he did a lot in in Marvel.
I mean, it was, it was a nice little run.
But also, who hasn't joined The Avengers right nowadays?
You've been a Marvel property here.
You've been 100. Percent.
You've been an Avenger at some point, but yeah, so you've got
it. There's no direct adaptation.

(10:07):
Obviously this is an original movie and all, but you know it.
It uses a lot of the same tone and character dynamics.
The inclusion of Valeria and Conan retrieving the sword from
the tune is actually from one ofHoward's stories called Red
Nails, which they did adapt intothe comics.

(10:29):
But Falsa Doom is actually not aConan character at all, right?
Right. Yeah, he's from Cole.
Which I would almost. I almost think there's a chance.
I saw Cole the Conqueror before I knew what.
Conan the Barbarian was Kevin Sorbo.

(10:49):
Yeah, there you go. Yeah, I mean, that's pretty much
it. You know, it's a successful
pulp, pulp novel. And then the comic, which I did
give credit to a Roy Thomas and Barry Windsor Smith who were the
ones that brought it into the comic world.
Of course, Roy Thomas is a legend in Marvel.

(11:11):
But yeah, they're the ones that brought it in.
And the the popularity from the 70s of this comic is very much
helped influence Hollywood to turn it into a movie.
Perfect segue there. So yeah, from the 70s, licensing
issues hindered the production of making it into a film.
Lancer Books, which acquired therights in 1966, went into

(11:35):
receivership, leading to legal disputes that froze the
publishing rights. In 75, Edward Summer proposed
Conan to producer Edward R Pressman, who was convinced
after reviewing comics and Fridzetta's artwork.
It took two years to secure the film rights, with Glenn Lord and
Decamp forming Conan Properties Incorporated to manage

(11:55):
licensing. Pressman spent over $100,000 in
legal fees and $7500 for the rights.
The success of Star Wars and 77 sparked Hollywood's interest in
quote UN quote heroic adventures, further boosting
Conan's popularity among young male view audiences.
So director John Milius expressed interest in directing

(12:16):
A Conan film in 78. After completing his movie Big
Wednesday, he and producer Buzz Fictions approached pressmen,
but discussion stalled due to differences.
Oliver Stone joined the project after Paramount offered funding
for a $2.5 million budget, provided that a named
screenwriter was involved. At that point, Stone was, you

(12:37):
know, screenwriter. After failing to secure Frank
Frazetta as a visual consultant,Ron Cobb was engaged for set
design. Set design.
However, the estimated cost of Stone script soared to $40
million and they struggled to find a studio to finance it.
Pressman faced financial issues and borrowed money to keep his
production company afloat. Attempts to find a suitable

(12:59):
director, including Oliver Stone, Joel Alves and rejection
from Ridley Scott, also hinderedthe progress.
So could you imagine this as a Ridley Scott movie written,
written by Oliver Stone, Writtenby.
Oh, yeah, yeah. With 10,000 mutants, Right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Cobb showed Melius his work

(13:20):
on the Conan script, which reignited Melius's interest in
the project. After negotiating with Pressman,
they agreed that Melius would direct the film if he would
modify the script. Known for his tough screenplays
like Dirty Harry and Magnum Force, Melius was under contract
by producer Dino De Laurentiis for his next film.
He proposed Conan to De Laurentiis and after a year of

(13:43):
discussions, they agreed to Co produce the film.
De Laurentiis took over financing and production, while
Pressman kept approval rights over changes to the script, cast
and director. Milius was officially appointed
as director at early 79, with Cobb as the production designer.
Universal Pictures was secured as the North American
distributor, contributing $17.5 million to the budget and $12

(14:06):
million for advertising. That was a lot.
It took a lot to get there. Then comes the script, which is
the really fun part. The film story development began
in 76 when Summer, with help from comic writer Roy Thomas,
drafted a script inspired by Howard Robes in the house where
Conan is hired by a priest to kill an evil wizard.

(14:26):
The script was abandoned when Oliver Stone joined the project.
At that time, Stone was struggling with addiction and
his drug fueled screenplay, which Milius described as a drug
fever dream, was completed by 78in Stone's version.
Influenced by Howard's Black Colossus and A Witch Shall be
Born was set in a post apocalyptic future where Conan

(14:47):
leads an army against 10,000 mutants, as Jerry mentioned, to
defend a princess's Kingdom. Additionally, the idea of
painting symbols on Conan's bodyto ward off spirits was inspired
by the Japanese story Hoichi theEarless from Quitan.
Quitan in 1965 I'm I'm once again got to stop putting stuff
in so I can't pronounce when when Melius became director he

(15:10):
took thank you. When Melius became director, he
took over writing the screenplay, although Stone was
still credited as a Co writer. Stone claimed Melius ignored his
suggestions, discarding the second-half of the story but
keeping elements from the first.Those elements that were kept
were Conan's crucifixion from A Witch Shall be Born and the
Tower of Serpent scene from Tower of the Elephant.

(15:30):
Melius expanded on Conan's youth, adding his enslavement at
the will of pain and gladiator training.
He also drew inspiration from other films such as Quiet On for
the symbols on Conan's bodies wementioned and Seven Samurai for
the final battle. Milius incorporated elements
from post Howard stories to likeConan's discovery of a tomb and
the thing in the crypt. Derek Ellie.

(15:52):
A Variety noted that Melius's script was faithful to Howard's
vision of Conan. And this is all in this pre
production section with Melius'squote.
He said all the basic emotions in the script are always
accessible to audiences. All the things that Conan does,
we all feel ourselves. He just acts on them with more
intensity than we do. He is a character who relies on

(16:12):
the animal, and I always believethat the animal instincts are
often the worst part of them. All you do when you evolve is
corrupt yourself sooner or later.
End Quote. Yeah, he's very passionate about
this. But yeah, he was.
But honestly, I think I read some other things, like he
wasn't aware of the comics at all when he started on the film.

(16:32):
Like he wanted to make a Viking movie.
That was what drew him to the project was he wanted to make a
Viking movie, which I guess is why his story isn't.
It's it's true to somewhat of what Conan was, but even some of
the stuff I read said that even the character of Conan isn't
consistent from story to story. Like he's not really a hero,

(16:55):
he's not really an antihero. He's just somebody finds himself
in a situation and sometimes does heroic things.
So, so it's interesting how they, you know, kind of pulled
all those those elements. Together.
I always wanted to read the Conan books, but every time I
like I'm about to something elsealways catches my eye and I end
up go reading that instead. But I it's on my plan.

(17:17):
It's on my To Do List, you know,of like things to do.
I I do want to read the originalHoward books.
I just. I'll get to it someday,
hopefully. Have you read any?
I have the movies, yeah. Have you read any of them?
Laramie, have you read the? Books not not the books, no,
I've I've read some of the comics, but.
Yeah, but that's about it. Mm.

(17:39):
Hmm. We all know I'm not a big
reader, so it's not on my agenda.
Book reader, I guess. I mean I.
Do a movie podcast. No reading.
Why read? When we can watch me fail
English, that's impossible. The 80s Flick Flashback Podcast
will return after these messages.

(18:01):
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What's up dudes, I'm Jerry D of Totally Rad Christmas, the
podcast that talks all things Christmas in the 80s.

(19:04):
Toys, movies, specials, music, books, fashion and fads.
If it was gnarly during Christmas in the 80s, he's got
it covered. Wait, is there a lot of things
to talk about for the 80s and Christmas?
Well, you got the movie giants like Christmas Vacation,
Scrooged and A Christmas Story. There are TV specials like
Muppet Family Christmas, Claymation Christmas Celebration
and a Garfield Christmas Special.

(19:25):
Plus classic shown every year. He also jam out to last
Christmas. Do they know it's Christmas and
Christmas and Hollis? But most of all, it was a time
for the most bodacious, best selling Christmas toys ever like
he man GI Joe Transformers. And Cabbage Patch Kids.
Yes, them too. We cover them all plus much
more, including standard segments like half half,
happiest memory, gagging with the spoon, the other half of the

(19:48):
battle. And chat with the littles.
So TuneIn to Totally Rad Christmas Everywhere you get
your podcast, turn the clock back and dive into those warm
and fuzzy memories. Later, dudes.
All right, so to cover casting, I decided to do this one a
little different. We've covered most of the cast

(20:10):
in the previous episodes, so this is.
Everybody knows who Arnold Schwarzenegger is.
So we'll talk a. Little bit about how they were
cast and who they are and how itkind of fit into the pre
production. So in the quest for the perfect
lead and Conan, producers Pressman and Summer initially
considered big names like Charles Bronson and Sylvester
Stallone. Yeah, right.
However. Bronson would have been like a

(20:32):
bunker's choice. Yeah, oh man.
However, after. Viewing Pumping After viewing
Pumping Iron in 76, they realized Arnold Schwarzenegger
was the ideal choice thanks to his impressive physique.
I mean, he was straight out of like Frazetta, right?
Yeah. Exactly.
They said you basically Frank Frazetta's like artwork come to

(20:53):
life. Exactly, exactly.
Pressman's supportive approach convinced Schwarzenegger to take
the role, which he viewed as a pivotal opportunity in his
career, earning him $250,000 anda contract that barred him from
any other sword and sorcery films until this was made.
Despite the project shifting to De Laurentiis, Pressman's
confidence helped Schwarzeneggerretain his role.

(21:15):
To prepare, he committed to an 18 month training regimen,
shedding weight and honing his athleticism.
Alongside him, novice actors Jerry Lopez and Sandal Bergman
took on significant roles, with Schwarzenegger even staying at
Lopez's home to build rapport before filming.
So let's talk about those two. So Jerry Lopez, who played so

(21:36):
super Thai, Super Thai yeah yeahwas a champion surfer but had
little acting experience. His only notable previous film
role was playing himself in the film Big Wednesday, which was
also directed by Jamilia. So hey, that's a.
Hard, Yeah. I'd ignore the director someday.
Is that right? But I and I thought I had in the
notes, but actually they ended up dubbing his voice.

(21:58):
So that's not his voice in the movie.
That felt like his delivery, just it was too inconsistent.
So his acting was fine, but the delivery, his lines weren't good
so they dubbed him with a professional voice actor.
So that. Was kind of a buffer.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Looking at 2 Hercules in New
York. Right, right.
And then Sandal Bergman was a professional dancer with whose

(22:21):
few previous roles in in films were I'm sorry, whose previous
film roles were in dance relatedfilms.
She was recommended for the roleby director Bob Fosse, who
worked with her and All That Jazz in 79.
So Milius brought sought actors whose appearances resonated with
their characters, believing theyshould embody their roles

(22:42):
without preconceived oceans. Although he although he had
reservations about their initialperformances, he adapted the
script to suit their skills. Schwarzenegger also faced
challenges with his dialogue, requiring extensive speech
training to refine his delivery.I was told that or I read.
I didn't put it here, but I readlike some of his like longer

(23:03):
dialogue scenes. They would have him practice
like 40 times. Like he would rehearse and
rehearse and rehearse with the director to try to get his his
Annunciation better. But it's honestly like.
A good neighbor I. Hear the lamentation of the
women. Yeah, no women.
Yeah, it's actually not that bad.
It's not as bad as I thought it was going to be.

(23:23):
Like, yeah, you know, you've heard people talk about it for
so long. I expect it to be worse, but you
know, if you've seen. For oh, he's going to think of
we've, we've, we've known Arnoldfor some.
Yeah, that's true. That's true.
We, we understand him. Yeah.
You know, a 1982 audience that had almost not seen Arnold at
all probably probably didn't. Right, they were probably like,

(23:47):
where are the subtitles? For real?
And actually, one of one of Melissa's ideas was to actually
have. No dialogue it to be all
instrumental. Like the music in this is still
pretty heavy. I mean Basil Paulodoris, man,
that dude rocked it hardcore with his stuff.
It's operatic. It's it's big, it's driving it's

(24:10):
brassy and very percussive and regal.
But you know, it's it's fantastic.
I love it the orgy scene the themusic there is like one of my
favorite pieces of music. It's just and it's just so great
and then they reuse it in the inthe destroyer, which fantastic.

(24:32):
I I was hoping to order. I just didn't get a chance to,
but I was hoping to order that. You can actually purchase the
full score of the music for thisfilm and and I just
unfortunately just didn't get a chance to.
I would really want to like dig in and talk music, but time,
time got away from me. That's all right.
Like that would be its own separate episode.

(24:55):
I do have a note about it later on about there was, I mean,
there was still a ton in the notes.
I was like, I've got to scale itback as much as I can.
So. So the other roles Sean Connery
and John Houston were consideredfor various roles, but James
Earl Jones and Max Von Seidel were cast to inspire the cast.
So they wanted more seasoned actors to help with the with the
less lesser known cast. James Earl Jones took the role

(25:18):
of Thulsa Doom after turning down a part in an animated
Grendel adaptation. He balanced filming with
starring in a Broadway play and often Coach Schwarzenegger on
his acting. Max Vince Aido did this movie
for his son who was a long time Conan fan.
So that's how they they got involved, but.
But that's like pretty typical, right?
Because Frank Langella took Masters of the Universe because

(25:40):
he was a he man fan. I mean, it's that that's, you
know, you got to do it. Same thing with the, what's his
name? Mario from the Super Mario
Brother, Bob Hoskins, you know? Oh, yeah, Flynn was a Mario
Brothers fan, so he took that role.
So I don't, I don't blame him. And quite frankly, I think he
comes out looking super cool. Yeah.

(26:02):
I mean he had his part. His part is so small.
He has that one scene and they actually there's a deleted scene
of his death, like it's really told in the story, but he gets
killed by Falsa Dunes, Pinchman or whatever, which I did watch.
It was interesting. Yeah, I was interesting because
I have the Blu-ray and they had the deleted scenes.
I don't watch deleted scenes. The deleted scenes of his death

(26:22):
scene is literally 3 different takes from three different
angles of the exact same scene. So it's not edited to like watch
as a full scene. I was like, oh, this is this is
interesting. I've never really seen a deleted
scene this way on a, on a, on a Blu-ray.
So it was kind of cool. Max von Sotto was the real first
actor Schwarzenegger ever workedagainst, at least according to
Arnold himself. He said he learned so much from

(26:45):
the one scene he had with Von Sotto and watching him transform
from off camera to on. He said it was staggering how
loud he could scream, how well he projected the scene and
everything. I know I knew how far one could
go with acting at that point. So, so that he's always been a,
he was a big fan of Max von Saito, but I mean, legendary

(27:07):
actor, yeah. Yeah, I don't blame him. 7
sealed. Is that what it was?
He was in the 7th seal or the 7th sign?
I always, yeah, the 7th seal where he's like playing chess
with playing chess with death. I mean, yeah, it's good stuff.
Yeah, he's, he was the bad guy in Flash Gordon, right?
Didn't he? Yeah, he was.
He was. He was being mean, yeah.
I was like, yeah, Ming the Merciless, Yeah.

(27:27):
I was like, I was like, I knew. I knew he played a villain in
something like that. He plays a villain in a lot of
stuff, yeah. He was.
Well, that's true. But he, you know, Minority
Report, Dings, I mean, dude's been in like, yeah, everything.
Yeah, he does play a good bad guy.
We'll we'll give him that. So.
So then we got Mako awats awat Matsu.

(27:53):
Look, he just want to buy makeup.
Mako. I'm going to go with Mako.
He was a, yeah, respected Japanese American actor, was
brought in for his experience and played the Wizard of the
Mounds. William Smith was cast as
Conan's father, while the Gorhamand Rexer were portrayed by
bodybuilders Vin O Thorsen. We've heard that name a couple
times. And former NFL player Ben

(28:13):
Davidson. That's right.
So this was the first time Schwarzenegger and Vin O Thorsen
appeared in the film together. Thorsen, in a sense, appeared in
another 14 films starring Schwarzenegger either as an
actor or as a stuntman. And then just this added note,
Schwarzenegger and Sandal Bergman did their own stunts
because they couldn't find suitable body double S for them.

(28:36):
No one else is shaped like them,right?
Exactly. One of my favorite things going
back and watching 80s action movies is seeing how badly they
try to disguise the stunt people.
Yeah, there's some really bad ones.
The most famous, of course, is the Eddie Murphy getting thrown
over the table in Beverly Hills Cop is like one of my favorites.

(29:00):
All right, well, let's talk about Icon or anybody from else
from the cast we wanted to coveror I think we kind of once again
even deep dive in any any any big ones.
But it's pretty small cast. Really.
Really. Yeah, I think we hit all like
the main ones, I mean. I was just making sure you said
make us so. Yeah, got made-up.
All right, let's talk iconic scenes if someone says Conan the

(29:22):
Barbarian and not Conan the Destroyer, Laramie.
Which? Was the first scene that pops in
your head the first thing that pops in your head?
There is no scene that pops intomy head.
It's just, it's just Arnold posing with the sword.
With the sword, yeah. Of.
Course poster. Yeah, that's it.
I mean that that that's all thatpops into my head, but but when

(29:45):
you actually forced me to think of something from from this
movie, I cannot help but think about either James Earl Jones
turning into a snake or him using the snake as an.
Arrow the snake theme was was hardcore in this movie for sure.

(30:08):
So yeah, I would. I would be like the the iconic
scene for me is after he, I guess.
Comes back from the dead and he's wielding the sword out and
kind of the desert like that. That scene is what I think of in
in this. But what about you, Jerry?
So there's a couple of course, but the wheel of pain is 1 like
him just forcing the wheel of pain him as a gladiator.

(30:30):
You're being trained and he's just sitting there.
You know the whole you know to crush your enemies see them
through before you the lamentation of your women.
That one for sure. Those are like the two big ones.
And then, yeah, I mean, him turning into a snake, like it's
yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. It's James Earl Jones, you know,
So when you just see his face just kind of start to stretch

(30:52):
out, you're like, what's going on there?
Yeah. So that one always kind of stuck
with me. I will say too, like the I will
call it the death stare, like when you when he's first
introduced and he's looking. Stares at his mom.
And it's just like that, those cold blue eyes, just like.
It's right. It's right, dude.
You know. Yeah, you know what?

(31:14):
The crucifixion scene when he's hanging there and he like bites
the Buzzard the. Buzzard, yeah.
Yeah, that's that's another one that really stands out as well
all. Right, So what about favorite
scenes? What do you what do you have on
your favorite scenes list? As Laramie chuckles, do you have
a favorite scene? Laramie, I don't know if I have
a favorite. Scene.

(31:36):
Yeah, I have. I actually have two so.
Well, then you go. You go right ahead.
OK, I'll. Maybe I'll go, OK, I like that
scene when when one of you. Speak up, but.
I'm not, look, I do want to say though, I'm not trying to to
bash this movie or anything, butit's it's not a movie that
sticks with me. So it's not a movie that I I

(31:57):
constantly think about. So yeah, I don't know if I have
a favorite scene. Yeah, so these are the these are
the two scenes that stood out tome like outside of the iconic
scenes when I was rewatching it.So the first one, even though
it's very fake and it's dated, the fight with the snake, the
huge snake on the pit is one of my favorite scenes just because

(32:19):
they went for it. I mean, you know, it's a fake
snake, but he's hacking at that thing like it's real and, you
know, getting wrapped up in it. And I did read this.
Real arrows were shot into the snake right over Arnold's head.
John Milius actually shot them himself because he was
determined he was the best Archer in the crew.
That's like. That's pretty cool.

(32:39):
Who? Who did that contest?
Let's not hire. Let's not hire like a
professional Archer, right? Let's just what's the best?
OK, Hit that target, right? You're not quite there.
Let's do it right, Right. That's crazy, but it was the 80s
man. Yeah, but yeah, but I like that.
I like that scene a lot. Like that's and that's probably
one of those scenes that I thinkwatching it on TV, you know,

(33:02):
probably still edit it somewhat for the blood.
But that scene I remember seeingas a kid or I'd seen that
somewhere, the TV version or, you know, just on a commercial
or something. So and then my other one, and
this one's not as great, but I it I liked it.
And it's the ghost scene when when you know they're that she's

(33:22):
fighting off the ghost from his body, which I've just, I don't
know, it was a cool thing. Like even the effects once again
aren't as up to par as we would see today.
It was still a good scene, the good dramatic scene for that
moment. And so I don't know, I just that
one stood up to me like that. That's a good that was a good
scene for me. But probably my favorite action

(33:42):
sequence though, is in the is there at the end when they're in
the the the the warrior paint and they're fighting off in in
the was it the the snake tower? Yeah, like that whole sequence
is by far the best sequence of the movie for me.
Just the action. And when he lifts the bowl of

(34:03):
whatever potion, green, whatever, they're they're
drinking whatever and pushing itover.
And then, yeah, they're all doing their different fights.
And of course, James, you know, also Doom transforming into the
snake. Yeah, yeah, that's that that,
you know, great climb. You know, not really the climax
because it's it's not the end ofthe movie, but it was one of the
best sequences for sure. So.

(34:25):
Yeah, I agree. I mean, and then, you know, you
get to like the fight where he like sets up all the booby traps
and yeah, I. Like that one a little bit
better, yeah. OK, I get that.
Yeah, that was. The booby traps, Yeah, yeah.
Well, we get the we get Sundell Bergman, but you know, Valeria
back is like, I don't know, it's.
Like a Valkyrie. A Valkyrie kind of.
Yeah, yeah. Which was odd, but I'm sure why

(34:47):
not. The movie is odd as a whole.
Well, it's. True.
It's it gets kind of patchy in places, especially the first
half. You're kind of like, I'm not
There's it's, it's a long time before you get into the bulk of
the story, right. So there's a main plot, Yeah.
So I do like what he finds. I don't even know, like, what in

(35:07):
like he's in that mound and he finds the Atlantean sword.
Yeah, yeah, You know, like that was, I probably should have
mentioned that in, in the iconicscene, but I, I, yeah, I, I do
like that part. And you're just like, whoa, that
sword is awesome, you know, and then it destroys his own dad's
sword. And you're like, wow, that's
cool. What are the scenes you got

(35:28):
Laramie? Yeah, that that's it.
Like, yeah, when they when they booby trap, booby trap the the
giant mound. That's probably, yeah, that's
probably my favorite scene. Or when he like finally gets
revenge on Tulsa Doom, you know,and he with his the shards of
well, not Shard, but I guess theremnants of his dad's sword and
he heads him and like you see all the followers just kind of

(35:53):
deflate like and. Then they just throw my torch
into the water here and I'll seeyou guys later.
And I can go find another cult leader to follow.
That's right. What am I going to do now?
We go to Shatazar and follow. You know this other lady, right?

(36:14):
I will say I do like that his beheading of Falsa Doom is not
just a like like what Paul Saddam did to his mom just once
once once like he has to hit himlike two or three times.
That's. Right.
So I did, I mean, it's brutal, but I, I did kind of kind of
appreciate, although, you know, you, you kind of expected maybe

(36:37):
some sort of a fight or something, right, Right.
He also, Jim apparently tries togive him that stare.
And I was going to say it seemedlike he was trying to, you know,
do the the juju on it or whatever, but it just doesn't
quite work the. Force was strong with that one.
That's. A change when I was looking for
like, you know, my quote to do at the end, there was a few, but

(36:58):
I was like, if I do this line, I'm going to want to talk like
James Earl Jones and I can't do it.
So I had to pick one that he doesn't say, but he has some
good. He has some good lines.
Yeah, he does. Well, the whole thing about the
Riddle of steel, right? That's like the whole
undercurrent, the Riddle of steel.
Then he he ends up giving him the speech about how it's
actually flesh is stronger than steel, Right.
Let me show you. And then he just makes that one

(37:19):
girl, like, sleep to her death. So.
Yeah. Yeah.
But you're right now, I mean, James Earl Jones, he you can't,
you can't do James Earl Jones. No, no.
I don't even want to try. Angel Jones, Morgan Freeman.
Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, that's it.

(37:40):
Not going to do it. All right, well, let's let's
jump into some trivia, maybe a few scenes.
Well, we can think about some ofthe things.
So as kind of let me mention earlier, the film is named for
Conan, but the character's personal history seems to be
based on Cole the Conqueror. Robert E Howard, the creator of
both characters, gave a more detailed origin to Cole.

(38:01):
Conan was a young adventurer whoapparently left his homeland
voluntarily. He was never a slave or
gladiator in any story by Howard, while Cole was exiled
from his homeland and spend and spent time as first a slave and
then a gladiator before usurpinga throne.
The character of Thulsa Doom is both named after and partly
based on an enemy of coal, not of Conan.

(38:22):
The Serpent cult features prominently entails of both
characters, so at least that was, you know, consistent.
But yeah, Thulsa Doom was a good, good baddie for him for
sure. And then we've kind of mentioned
it. The The Conan's Response to the
Mongol General is an abbreviation of a real quote
attributed to Genghis Khan. The quote is The greatest

(38:45):
pleasure is to Vanquish your enemies and chase them before
you, to rob them of their wealth, and see those dear to
them bathed in tears, to ride their horses and clasp to your
bosom their wives and daughters.So it's a little abbreviation of
that. Yeah, probably best to shorten
it the way they did, right? Right.

(39:06):
I have a question, yes. Is the Atlantean sword in the
Atlantean King? Is that supposed to be Cole?
I honestly, I have no idea. I I really don't.
It's it's because it just seems like at at least as far as the
creators go, they were just like, let's have them find this
super cool, awesome, powerful weapon.

(39:28):
And I don't know if they really put that much thought into it.
Yeah, but the fact to actually call it like it actually being
an Atlantean sword and Cole is, you know, supposed to be the,
you know, the King of Atlantis or whatever it was that he was.
So I don't know. Maybe then.
I mean, yeah. I wonder if it was intentional.

(39:51):
I could be, but they never explain it.
No, they don't. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff not
explained. And I don't remember them even
trying to explain it in the likein the making of on the, you
know, the special features on the DVD.
So. I know I read like the the whole
thing about him finding it underground was to take it back
to the story his father told about the God he from.

(40:16):
Like that's why he says Crumb atthe end, because he thinks
that's Crumb hidden, hid the steel in the earth for him to
find. Like it was a divine find for
him. But once again, it's not clearly
explained that way, but that's kind of explanations that I had
read there. So these are trying to tie
something back to it I guess. Yeah, good question.

(40:37):
The fake blood used in the film came in the form of a
concentrate, which had to be mixed with water prior to use
due to cold weather. It was mixed with vodka as an
antifreeze instead. In the scenes in which the
actors were supposed to spit theblood, they would swallow it
instead. Then go back to the special
effects team for more. Oops, sorry, I accidentally

(41:01):
drank the blood right? That's hilarious.
Whatever you can do to get through the chute, I guess.
Right for real the. Tree of Woe, where Conan was
crucified, was not an actual tree.
The film crew created three out of layers of plaster and
Styrofoam applied onto a skeleton of wood and steel.

(41:22):
It was actually mounted on a turntable, allowing it to be
rotated to ensure the angle of the shadows remain consistent.
Throughout 3 days of filming, Schwarzenegger sat on a bicycle
seat mounted in the tree with fake nails, a fix to his wrist
and feet. So yeah.
It's shocker that that was not areal tree.
No, of course they had to find atree.

(41:43):
That it didn't even look like a tree like that.
Well, I mean, that tree was fullof whoa, you know, So I mean,
it's. Whoa, that's a tree.
All right. As as Jerry mentioned about the
the composer of this film, BasilPolodorus, did I say right, made
extensive use of Musync, a musicand tempo editing so hardware

(42:08):
and software system, which modified the tempo of its
compositions and synchronized them with the action in the
film. Conan was the first film to use
this system. So that's my only little trivia
about about him. But but yeah, we we've already
kind of talked about the score being really good.
Yeah, essentially. So before that, if they wanted
to be real precise, there was a lot of math that they would have

(42:31):
to do and they would have to calculate the time that it took
to get to certain scene, you know, shots or points in certain
scenes. And then from there, kind of
adjust the tempo based on, you know, based on on that time.
And so with this technology, they were actually able to just
put it in and it would adjust itfor them.

(42:52):
And so it saved a lot of time. And So what they used to have
was like 12 weeks to do scores started getting them down to
about six weeks. Nowadays, they really only have
like one to two weeks to do an actual score.
And so, yeah, they'll be composing, but the final
recording of it and everything is usually done within a very

(43:13):
short frame time. And a lot of it is because of
the technology that's available now to help adjust tempos.
And I mean, it's very cool, verycool.
Like it. But yeah, it's just, it's such a
good score. Yeah.
It's like you can hum it, you know, Bump, bump, bump, bump,
bump, bump, bump, bump. I mean, it's just catchy.
I remember the score, even though I I mean, yes, I watch it

(43:36):
once a year, but the score I think is even just more
memorable because it is very simplistic.
You know, it's it's catchier than some of the the more modern
movies like I love Marvel, I love this, you know, the MCU,
but most of those scores it's it's hard to find a theme.
You know, it's if if I were to say, Hey, hum, the theme to

(44:00):
Thor, the first story. Yeah, exactly.
But I was going, wait a minute, The Avengers theme song come.
On yeah, yeah, OK, So yes, but that one for sure.
But I mean, like, you know, do you remember the first Iron Man?
Was ACDC wouldn't it back in black?
But like, you know, it's that's the that theme is really not not

(44:23):
very memorable. But this one is because they
kept it simple. They tried to focus on melody.
I think he even wrote it on likejust him and the guitar.
And then from there he ended up,you know, composing it, this
whole thing for 90 piece orchestra.
But yeah, it's just it's catchy.And like I said, it's that that
whole scene, you know, when he turns into a snake with the, you

(44:45):
know, the the orgy and everything, that one, that
particular cue, that melody justsuper catchy and randomly pops
in my head. Well, you do watch it every
year, so. I do, but, but you know, there's
there's others that don't pop inmy head that I often, but that
one does. It's just it's just a catchy

(45:06):
it's like that one and the ending queue of Buckaroo Banzai.
You know, it's like I they just randomly pop in my head and
like, what are you guys doing there?
Love it. All right, we got a few more
here. So Marvel published a comic book
adaptation written by John Boshima and Michael Fleischer
and drawn by Boshima. It was first published in the

(45:27):
magazine Style Marvel Super Special and included behind the
scenes articles as well as interviews with Arnold
Schwarzenegger, James Earl Jones, director John Milius and
artist Ron Cobb. So try to find that the next
comic book convention I go to. The film was intended to be the
beginning of a series, with at least 4 sequels in the pipeline,

(45:47):
and Schwarzenegger had to committo all of them.
John Milius said there were supposed to be at least three
Conan movies, each with different themes involving
swords. The first was about strength or
strength of the sword, the second would have been about how
to wield the sword, and the third being about consequences.
Still waiting for that, that Conan, you know, the Conqueror,

(46:09):
Conan the King or whatever it's called.
Movie that we were. It's not going to happen.
No, not, not anymore. No.
Somebody AI that let's let's make it happen somehow.
It'll be animated at this point.So right.
All right then my last little trivia, which I'm sure you you
guys would know this, but there's an enduring urban legend

(46:29):
about the so-called so-called Conan toy line.
The story is that the Mattel ToyCompany started to make some
Conan action figures, but after viewing the film, the executive
realized they couldn't afford tobe associated with a film with
such graphic sex and violence. They gave their doll blonde
hair, called him He Man, and thus created He Man in the
Masters universe. However, since the first He Man

(46:52):
figures were released in 81, thelegend appears to be false.
In 1984, however, now defunct toy company Remco released an
officially licensed series of Conan action figures.
Ironically enough, once the He Man action figures became
immensely popular, numerous knockoffs were produced,
including a repainted He Man figure that had brown hair,

(47:13):
making it look like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
The knockoff was sold mainly through mom and Pop dollar
stores and came in generic packaging labeled The Barbarian.
It's like the spirit of Halloween, you know, We can't
call it Beetlejuice. It's the, you know, ghost.
Yeah. What are they?
Give it some generic name, you know?

(47:34):
Yeah. It's not the Grinch.
It's the green monster. The green monster.
Yeah. The bio exorcist, you know, so.
Yeah. The 80s Flick Flashback Podcast
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So this is funny because this was actually, we actually kind
of mentioned this in our last episode on Golden Pond. 2 movies

(48:42):
that go so well together on. In 1980, producers began
marketing Conan the Barbarian with teaser posters featuring
Frazetta's artwork. Dino de la Renta's aim for a
Christmas 1981 release, but Universal executives requested
further edits after a preview inAugust cited concerns over
violence, the. The studio decided to release On

(49:03):
Golden Pond as its Christmas release instead of Conan, so the
delayed the delayed to the premieres allowed for changes
including the removal of scenes such as Conan's mother severed
head and Subtie slaying a monster.
Originally intended to be 140 minutes, the final cut was 129
minutes, trimmed 126 minutes. In the US on February 19th,

(49:26):
1982, the public was given a sneak preview of Conan a
Barbarian in Houston, TX. In the following month, previews
were held in 30 cities across the country.
On March 16th, it had its worldwide premiere at the
Photogramas de Plaza annual cinema awards ceremony in
Madrid, and it began its generallease in Spain and France.
In April, 20th Century Fox managed the film's foreign

(49:46):
distribution. Originally, Universal had
scheduled Conan's official release in the US for the
weekend before Memorial Day. However, to avoid competition
with other big budget, high profile films, the studio moved
the release date up. As a result, Conan was
officially opened on May 14th, 1982 and 1400 theaters across
North America and ruled the box office at #1 for two weeks.

(50:11):
Yeah, I mean, like it's because of this movie that we got a a
huge influx of sword and sorcery.
Now they were there popular already.
Yes they'd they'd made clash of the Titans in 81 and few things
like that. But like.
It was this. Scale movie.
Yeah. This was like the one that was
like the gold standard, you know?

(50:31):
It's because of that we got likeHawk the Slayer and the sword
and the Sorcerer and Beastmasterand Crawl and like all these
other and none of them, I love them all, but none of them
really stand up to the quality of this one, which is saying
something, you know, Laramie, Because if we're going to put

(50:55):
quality, we could put it in quotes or something.
But the other ones are really bad.
So there's some out there like Sorceress that are just oof, you
know? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you can.
Yeah, you can go on Tubi and find a lot of the, you know, mid
80s sorcery movies that are likevery low budget, very poor

(51:17):
quality. So but yeah, but just trying to
cash in on that. So.
All right, we'll start to wrap it up.
Let's talk about the the new rewatch ability nostalgia meter.
It's our new segment. We take a look at how well this
80s flick holds up today. The All New Rewatch Ability
Nostalgia Meter is our way of measuring how enjoyable a movie
is for repeat viewings, along with the ways of nostalgia it

(51:39):
brings. Here's how it works.
It's a one to 10 scale. Any number between 1:00 and
10:00 will do, but here are a few parameters to help you
decide. At the bottom of the meter at
the number one is kind of. I saw it once, and that was
enough. This is for films that didn't
leave a lasting impact. Maybe it was fun at the time,
but there's not enough there to make you want to go back for
more. Right in the middle is a good

(52:00):
rewatch every couple of years. These movies have some memorable
moments or themes that stick with you, but they're not
something you feel the need to watch all the time.
And then at the top of the meterwe have #10 highly rewatchable
and full nostalgia. These are the gems you can watch
on repeat without ever getting tired of them.
They're packed with nostalgia, offering that perfect blend of
sentimental value and timeless appeal.

(52:21):
Because I kind of know where Jerry's going.
I'm going to start with Jerry. So Jerry, where does Conan the
Barbarian rank this? Is this is somewhere between an
8 1/2 and a nine for me? OK, OK.
I thought he was going full 10. I was about to say you watch it
every year. Yeah, but but there's some 10 is
reserved for those that I watch like multiple times a year.
So it's he's got standards. He's got standards.

(52:46):
I don't know. I talk about the 80s.
I don't know if I do, but, but no, I mean like yes, huge
nostalgia factor. I do love re watching this, but
it's not as much as I as and as often as I do watch it, it's not
in like my upper echelon of favorite movies, ones that I
that I typically watch, you know, two to three, sometimes

(53:09):
even 4 * a year. So, but I, I still, I mean,
yeah, I watch it once a year. So it's, it's got to be like 8
1/2 or 9. So.
OK, got you. What about you, Laramie?
Where does it land for you? Honestly, it's probably a, I'd
say 4 probably be about it. Yeah.

(53:30):
I mean, yeah, I this isn't one that I'm I'm watching once a
year. No.
This is one that I'm probably only watching when someone
brings it up and, and I need to watch it for some reason.
Yeah, I'm, I'm very. I'm just fascinated by Jerry's
response there. And I'm like, what movies?

(53:53):
How many more movies do you watch 2-3 to four times a year?
They're all Christmas movies because he's a lot of our
Christmas movies. Yeah.
Muppet Christmas carols usually like a two to three time of year
watch sits. Sits back every other month and
watches the Leonard part 6. No star for the 4th time this

(54:17):
week. Let's go.
No but Clue. Clue's usually like a two to
three time of year movie. That's another one that my
brothers and I loved. So yeah, there's some others I.
That's good. Yeah.
Mine's going to be in between the two of you.
This is probably like a six, maybe even 6.5.
Once again, this wasn't one thatI really saw as a kid, so the

(54:39):
nostalgia isn't as high. I do have the mirror of my dad
watching it and me wanting to watch it, but it is it is
rewatchable like it's it's one Iown and I've I've watched it
twice in the last couple years and enjoyed it both times.
Probably not every year, but every couple of years I'll
probably want to, you know, revisit it. 6.5 is kind of where
I'm going to I think I'm going to land on this one stuff.

(55:01):
So good spectrum there for everybody.
So, but for our listeners, let us know where you think Conan
the Barbarian should rank on therewatch ability nostalgia meter.
Please send us an e-mail or let us know on social media.
We want to hear what you think as well about where it lands.
So all right, gentlemen, we havecovered Conan the Barbarian.
Any last words or thoughts aboutit before we wrap it all up?

(55:26):
You said it all. I mean, once again, I'll just,
I'll just end this by saying. Then we're just going to stare
at us with the blue eyes and thethe, the snake snare snake
stare. So do they ever trying to

(55:46):
remember, do they ever actually call Mako like Akiro by his
name? Because.
He's just listed credited as like, yeah, with a mound.
Yeah, I don't think so. But then in in they, you know,
he's given the name Akiro in thein the destroyer.
Yes. I think they don't remember.
Yeah, they don't call because I'm, I did read that they don't

(56:06):
give him the name in this one, but they do give him his name in
the second one. And that's the second one.
Yeah. And also the same thing with the
female the the love interest Valeria.
Valeria, Valeria, Valeria. She's she never speaks her name
in the movie. Like she's never given a name.
They actually had a scene where she introduced herself, but it
was cut from the movie. So yeah, so she but.

(56:31):
Too much talking. Yeah, so interesting and I I
skipped over this one since we brought her up.
I'll bring it up. Although Valyria is Conan's love
interest in the film and the Conan Canon, the pirate queen
Belit is considered to be the love of his life.
Valeria even borrows a lot of Belits characteristics in the
film. Many who are familiar with the

(56:51):
Conan pulp novels wondered why Valeria was in the film instead
of Belit. In the film's commentary,
director John Milius said that he'd always wanted to film a
Valkyrie like character. Valeria was more closely fit the
description than Belit so. That's funny.
You're just like, you know, I just wanted to throw this in.

(57:13):
Well, that's like on that movie Ultraviolet, right where like
the, the the titles are all likecomic booky and it's like has
nothing to do with comic books. But the guy was like, I just
always wanted to make a comic book movie.
So I threw those titles in. That's like the same thing.
Oh, just, you know, Valkyrie movie.
Why not? He wanted to make a Viking
movie, so let's do Conan the Barbarian so.

(57:35):
There you go. He also used like various like
he didn't want to set it in thisany specific time period.
That's why it has like a lot of different styles and and
wardrobes and stuff. So all right, will thank you
guys for joining. Jerry, what do you got coming up
on Totally Rad Christmas? So hopefully by this time the
ratties have actually come out, I'm not sure I'm, I'm falling

(57:59):
really behind, but hopefully, yeah, the, the Totally Rad
Christmas awards, the 5th annualTotally Rad Christmas Awards
should have dropped and everyonewill have loved it.
I'm I'm assuming. And yeah.
And then after that, I just haveregular 80 stuff going on that
I, I don't even have a plan for yet.

(58:19):
So we'll, I've been so focused on the ratty's.
We'll we'll see what happens after that.
All right, cool. Yeah, but listen to the Ratty's.
May May hear some names and podcasters on this podcast that
might have won a few things. I'm not going to stop spoiling
anything, but you might hear some names.
So what about you, Larry? What you got coming up for or

(58:39):
what you got coming up? Yeah, on moving panels for end
of April, beginning of May. Well, I mean, the month of May
is our animation, Yeah. So we're going to discuss Batman
and Harley Quinn and the Doctor Strange animated.
Movie. Oh yeah, we'll get to both of
those. And then and then we get into

(59:01):
our our summer series on Mark Miller.
Very cool some of his work. So.
Yes, yes, yes, Yep and I'm bringing the summer sequels back
this year so we got summer of sequels 2 Revenge of the
sequels. So we've given you some more
information about that here in the next couple of weeks.
So be on the lookout for that and making some format changes

(59:23):
as well. So exciting things happening the
second-half of this year for 80sflick Flashback Podcast.
But thanks everybody for tuning in.
Thank you, Jerry and Laramie forbeing a part of this episode.
Always a pleasure to have you both here.
Thanks for tuning in. Yep, thanks for tuning in.
I'm Tim Williams, the 80s Quick Flashback Podcast.

(59:44):
Do you want to live forever? Talking.
To 80s we will run every day is just pure fun.
Goonies never say bye to your mind.
In those films, we lose our minds.

(01:00:20):
John Hughes and all his teen dreams, monsages and simply
themes In fairest hands, the city bends.
Living your life like it never ends.
You're still here. It's over.

(01:00:42):
Go home. Go.

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#134 - "Conan the Barbarian" (1982) with Gerry D & Laramy Wells

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#134 - "Conan the Barbarian" (1982) with Gerry D & Laramy Wells