#135 - "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" (1988) with Nicholas Pepin, Laramy & Bethany Wells - 80s Flick Flashback

Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
From Touchstone Pictures, A hot new star, a 2 bit detective.
Every moment they're together isa new adventure in trouble.
Compassion. I'm sorry I yanked your ears.
All the time you yanked my ears.And gratitude.
How can I ever repress you? Framed Rodger Rabbit, a Steven

(00:25):
Spielberg presentation, a RobertZemeckis film?
Don't Ever Kiss Me Again. Rated PG, starts Wednesday, June
22nd at a theatre near you. Putting animated characters in a
live action setting and vice versa has practically become a
genre all of its own these days,but this groundbreaking 80s
flick was one of the first filmsto use that magic trick as the

(00:48):
concept of a full length featurefilm from producer Steven
Spielberg and director Robert Zemeckis.
The Academy award-winning box office hit follows a human
Private Eye who must help a zanyanimated rabbit accused of
murder clear his name in an alternate 1947 Hollywood in
which humans in tunes coexist. So hop on the back of the red

(01:10):
car, hold onto your disappearingink, and don't get dipped in the
dip as Nicholas Pepin, Laramie Wells, Bethany Wells and I
discuss Who Framed Roger Rabbit from 1988 on this episode of The
80s Split Flashback Files. Sean Hughes.
And all his teen dreams, monsages and play themes in

(01:32):
fairy's hands, the city fans living life like it never ends
it seems bikes to the sky by thescope just getting.

(02:06):
All right, welcome in everybody to the 80s Flick Flashback
Podcast. I'm Tim Williams, the creator
and host. We're excited to have you with
us. If you enjoy the show, please
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(02:27):
buymeacoffee.com. Every little bit helps.
You can also visit 80s flickflashback.com and RT Public
Store for some awesome 80s flickflashback merch and original
designs. Today the Cartoon Cosmos has a
line and I'm beyond thrilled to introduce a trio a fantastic
film fanatics joining me for this one.

(02:48):
First up, he's a man whose insights are sharper than a
toon's wit and whose knowledge of 80s flicks is truly
sensational. Please give a big virtual High 5
to the one and only Nicholas Pepin from Pop Culture Roulette.
I think I will. I think I will take one of those
drinks. And also joining, we have a
dynamic duo here to double the fun.

(03:09):
They're a pair of pixel perfect pals who found the kind of love
that some believed was only possible for a sultry redheaded
lounge singer and a loony but lovable rabbit.
Please welcome the terrific twosome of Laramie and Bethany
Wills. What can I say?
He makes me laugh. I.
Don't know what to say. I was going to do a whole like

(03:33):
Roger Rabbit impersonation, and then you had to go say something
sweet like that. I was also quoting Jessica
Rabbit. Yes, I know, but I still didn't
know what to say. Again, I was, I had this whole
jokey thing planned in my head and you go and say like say
something like that. So sweet.

(03:56):
She's going to make you a carrotcake now.
Yeah, all. Right, we're talking about Who
Framed Roger Rabbit from 1988, so let's jump right in.
Nicholas, when did you see Who Framed Roger Rabbit for the very
first time? Because I'm one of the older
people in the room right now, I saw this one in the theaters.

(04:20):
I was probably too young to haveseen it in the theaters, looking
back on it. Oh, there's a lot of adult
things in it there. There's a.
Look at watching it again last week.
I was like, how did I get? How was I allowed to go see this
movie and then rented a couple times afterwards?
But yeah, no, I But I also realized that most of that

(04:41):
probably went right over my head.
Oh. Yes, it did.
Of course it did. All right.
So what about you, Laramie? You know what part of me thinks
I did see this in theaters? It may have been one of those
like re releases or one of thoselike, you know, the come see the
kid movies in the summer and the.
Yeah, yeah. But I really, part of me really

(05:05):
feels like I did see this in theaters.
I think I read they did re release it in 91 for like a
limited release. That could because I would have
been, I would have been 10, Yeah.
So that very well could have been the case, but I, I really
do, I'm not going to say for 100% certainty, but I do really
think that I saw this in theaters all.

(05:26):
Right. What about you, Bethany?
Well, seeing as how I am one of the youngest people here in this
chat, I probably saw it when I was, I mean, I was young, I
think my parents, you know, doing this show with you, Tim, I
realized my parents had a lot ofstuff just like illegally
recorded on VHS tape. We all did in the lab.
Right. Yeah, you weren't.

(05:48):
The only one for the force. I feel like every time you asked
me I was like, I'm pretty sure my parents had this recorded on
some VHS tape. I mean, you got that free
weekend of HBO. That's all you did.
Right. Right.
Right. And so I'm pretty sure we had
this on AVHS tape. It was either recorded from HBO
or TBS. Possibly because I feel like

(06:09):
this was ATBS movie, maybe not. Yeah, maybe it's possible.
I don't know, but I watched it alot.
We had it on Avhs tape because Iremember that cartoon that
opened it up. Not just like the one from the
movie, but the short that aired before it where he's in the
hospital. Wasn't that for another movie

(06:30):
though? I don't know but.
I remember that. Cartoon playing before I watched
the movie and it's him in the hospital with the baby and.
No, I yeah, I remember all of that, yeah.
I did see this one in the theater.
I do remember going to see it and being excited to go see it
in the theater. And I remember buying the VHS

(06:51):
when it was released and remember that my dad bought a
copy of the VHS to buy his parents, my grandfather, because
of all the classic cartoons thatwere in it.
He just thought it'd be cool forhim to see it, and I remember us
watching it with him and him kind of like appreciating parts
of it, but really didn't see whyeverybody liked it so much.

(07:15):
And it just kind of sat in his VHS case, you know, and then on.
So how long has it been since you rewatched it before we
watching it for the podcast? We'll go the other way now.
So about Bethany, the last time we planned to record this
episode it. Was about a year ago No, I I do
feel like it was a little over ayear ago.
We watched it with the kids. I mean, it's a, it's a movie

(07:38):
with cartoons and nostalgia. So we're like, yes, it's going
to be great. And then there's some stuff in
it and we go, huh, interesting, interesting.
They don't understand what they're doing when they're
playing Patty kick. Right, I didn't I?
Don't think I. Understood it.
Still don't understand what's going.
On Yeah, yeah. There were scenes like when I
was watching it today and I was like, I'm trying to, you know,

(07:59):
think of who, think of myself in88.
I would have been middle school,so like maybe 12 or 13.
So there was stuff in it that I was like, kind of like, oh,
that's not, you know, that's notAG, you know, cartoon kind of,
you know, part or whatever or something.

(08:20):
You know, there were certain things like when the baby
whatever goes under the lady's skirt and he looks up, the
little devil horns come at him. Like, you know, But, you know,
even some of the old, like, I remember being as a kid and
they're being like old Looney Tunes cartoons that sometimes
would be aired that weren't edited because, you know, those
were originally, like, not meantfor kids.

(08:41):
Like, they were very political and stuff.
So there were things I saw in there.
I was like, that doesn't seem like I should be watching that.
But it's a cartoon and nobody's in here to stop me from watching
it. So here we go.
I mean I I distinctly remember my parents letting me watch it
and and having a conversation with is this something we should
let them watch? Because I would have been 10 and

(09:02):
so that would have been my sister 7.
But you know, I, I remember themtaking us to see it in the
theaters because I mean, everybody was going to see that
movie. I mean, it was super popular.
And then we, you know, we rentedit or we watched it.
And then just again, that conversation of what I mean, I'm
going to go ahead and, and jump the gun a little bit.
I'm pretty sure Jessica Rabbit was where my predilection

(09:23):
towards redheads came from. I I just didn't know at the time
that's where that was coming from.
Right, right, right. I got you.
Yeah. And I think I remember, like,
seeing that scene for the first time, like thinking should these
feelings I'm having be towards acartoon?

(09:44):
Like I, you know, I feel these tingles that I'm feeling.
Is that just? Normal.
So, all right, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll.
I digress. All right.
You don't, you don't know how hard it is for a man to look at
a woman drawing. Right, Right.
Yeah, Yeah. There's there's very cringy
parts of this that I see now that I did not see as a child

(10:04):
so. No, you definitely missed a lot
of those. Like we'll, we'll get there as
we go. But yeah, a lot of parts that,
you know, I'm like, wait, what? How long for you, Nicholas, has
it been since rewatched it? I mean, I bought it on DVDA
while ago, but it was, it was one of those like, because I
knew it was, I knew it was one that we had been planning.

(10:26):
And then I watched it. Yeah, I'd like to try to watch
things a couple times before we we record.
And then I watched it before we were supposed to do it then.
So about a year ago, maybe year and a half, you know, long
enough that I had forgotten a lot of the like, really adult
innuendos that I definitely didn't catch when I was 11:50.

(10:47):
Right, right. Yeah, I, I watched it, you know,
the last time we plan to record,you know, everybody knows now.
We tried to record this like a year ago and things, you know,
schedules happened, but I think I'd watched it before then
because I think it was on DisneyPlus and I think I saw was on
there. Oh, I haven't watched this a
long time. I was going to watch it and but

(11:08):
that was the first time I'd seenit in probably 15 to 20 years,
probably because it'd been a while.
So because, I mean, I had it on,I had it on VHS, but I can't say
that I watched it a bunch. Like, I liked it when it first
came out, but rewatching it, it wasn't one that I feel like I
would watch all the way through.I'd watch like bits and pieces
of it, but yeah. I got a question, were either of

(11:34):
you familiar with the video gamethere?
I watched this when we were watching this movie.
I was remembering the video gamelike the Nintendo console video
game. I don't really remember.
I wasn't allowed to have a Nintendo.
My first Nintendo was the Nintendo 64.

(11:54):
So I, I probably played it over at a friend's house because all
of my friends had Nintendo's. But I, I do not remember the
game. I think I mean, I vaguely
remember it existing, but as As for playing it, I doubt.
I mean, I might have played it for a few minutes, but I, you
know. I, I apparently played that game

(12:15):
a lot because I, I remembered a lot of it as, because it's
pretty much you're just playing through the, the storyline of
the movie and you had to like collect, but I want to say it
was like you had to collect pieces of the will.
Like it wasn't the, the big reveal that you had the will the
whole time you had to collect pieces of the will or something.
I don't quite remember. But I don't remember it at all.

(12:38):
Like I I have a vague memory of maybe like seeing it or.
I mean, I don't. Remember, I don't think I ever
played it, but I. Remember the Roger Rabbit was
popular enough that they made other cartoons of the one that
Bethany was talking about for like to run in front of other
Disney movies later. Yeah, the one Bethany was

(12:58):
talking about aired before Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, which
I definitely want. That VHS tape?
Legally. So Tummy Trouble came before
Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, and then Roller Coaster Rabbit
actually came before Toy Story. Oh wow, oh wow.
Yeah, because that was like 90. Three.

(13:20):
It was 95. I saw.
Toy Story in theaters. November 22nd, 1995 Theatrical
release with Toy Story, althoughit had released with Dick Tracy
overseas back in 90. OK.
Then trail mix up released overseas with some movie called

(13:41):
A Far Off Place which I have never heard of you.
Don't know that. That was in 93, but in the US it
was released with A Bug's Life in 98.
So those are those are the threeRoger Rabbit shorts.
So it had some staying power that they were still showing

(14:02):
them that much later after it came out.
I I remember, I remember the shorts like I like definitely
remember seeing the one before Honey, I Shrunk the Kids,
because I know I saw that one inthe theaters.
When I saw Toy Story. I saw that like later, like at
the dollar theater. I don't even know.
I don't know if they showed it when I played at the the dollar

(14:23):
theater, but yeah, but I think I've seen them because did they
play them on TV as well? Like at certain points like
they. Oh, probably.
Oh, yeah, they probably had them.
Yeah, they. Probably had them Disney or.
On the Disney Channel at some point.
Yeah, All right, well, let's talk about story origin, pre
production. So Walt Disney Productions
purchase the film rights to GaryK Wolf's novel Who Censored

(14:47):
Roger Rabbit? Shortly after its publication in
1981, Ron W Miller, then president of Disney, saw it as a
perfect opportunity to produce ablockbuster.
Jeffrey Price and Peter S Seamanwere hired to write the script,
pinning two different drafts. They admired Chinatown from the
movie from 1974, and there were already 2 sequels planned for

(15:10):
that film. The first was The Two Jakes,
which eventually came out in 1990.
The second was to be called Cloverleaf and dealt with
corruption in LA, undermining the streetcar system so that
freeways could be built to replace them.
Although it's an animated story,Who Framed Roger pretty much
tells a story that would have been covered in the never filmed

(15:31):
sequel with Cloverleaf becoming the name of a company combined
with elements from the book who censored Roger Rabbit?
So Naomi, you read the book previously when we were going to
record it a year ago. Anything you want to tell us
about the book, give us the book.
History, or I mean, it's, it's drastically different, yeah.
I I read a few things that were different.

(15:52):
I didn't put too much in my notes, but if you want to give
us a little synopsis you can. I mean pretty much they used the
foundation of the book, which iswhere Roger Rabbit is framed for
a murder. Should I go ahead and spoil the

(16:13):
book? Yeah, I might.
As well. So spoiler Roger actually did it
in the book. Yeah, yeah, he's jealous about.
It's not the same. It's not a it's not the same
name. I don't even think of the it's
not, it's not Acme at all. I can't remember.

(16:36):
It's it's like Degrease or de greasy or something.
It's like Rocco, I think is his first name, but it's the same
thing. Like, you know, Jessica's
cheating on him and and Roger. Roger does murder the guy, but
then Roger is killed. Yeah, I had read that.

(16:56):
Yeah, that he didn't. And so the the Roger Rabbit that
is actually working with Eddie Valiant in the book is Roger's
stunt double. Because in this universe the and
and their their comic strip characters, not cartoon
characters in the in the book they can create doppelgangers of

(17:20):
themselves. OK.
And usually the doppelganger only lives long enough to do
like the stunt or whatever they needed to do.
But this one Rodger put enough energy into him to last for two
days. And so that's the Rodger rabbit
that helps Eddie. And then at the very end of the
book that Rodger fades away. So there is no Rodger Rabbit

(17:45):
after the first book, which was crazy to me because I knew there
was a sequel to the book. Right.
Come to find out that he just wrote a sequel and just pretty
much ignored everything from thefirst book.
But anyway, yeah. And there's instead of them
looking for this for the wheel, Will, there's this thing about

(18:07):
they're trying to get a hold of a like a teapot or kettle of
some sort. And that's what they're all
after. Will, when they finally get it,
come to find out there's a genieinside of it?
OK. Yeah, and then that's where that
book got really weird. But ultimately, like Eddie,

(18:31):
Eddie finds out that the genies weakness is saltwater and so he
holds it over a saltwater tank and threatens the genie and to
to make things right or whatnot.But pretty much it clears
Roger's name and pins the whole thing on this other character.
But he did it, so why would he want to?

(18:52):
Clear. It was weird.
Like I said, it's weird because Eddie even finds out that
Roger's plan was to frame Eddie and that that was what the
doppelganger was going to do. It was.
It was all weird. And then Eddie.
Once everything is resolved, Eddie realizes he can't even
trust the genie, so he just goesahead and drops the genie into

(19:13):
the tank anyway and kills the genie.
I don't like it, yeah. The book is weird, like weird.
And it's hard. It's hard to even imagine
because when the characters speak like the the animated
characters, they speak, they speak through speech bubbles.

(19:37):
Like in the real world, OK, theytalk through speech bubbles.
So that's a weird part of it too, because it's like there's
these things where like the speech bubble like lingers a
little bit and I don't know, it's, it's weird.
Like it's it's a it reads a lot more like kind of those dark,

(19:59):
those pulp comics or pulp novels.
I guess that, I mean, I'm a comic book guy, so I'm going to
say comic, you know, so it's darker, you know, it's more of a
straight up like detect. Like it reads like a detective
noveler. It is more it is you can tell
that the book was written to be kind of a satire against like

(20:23):
Hollywood and fame. And, you know, it was kind of
written with a an intention behind it.
I mean, Jessica Rabbit is a lot more cold.
Like you could tell she really doesn't love Rodger in.
The book. So yeah, it it's I it's crazy

(20:43):
that someone read this book and then made this movie.
Yeah, I did read like in some ofthe other drafts, like Judge
Doom was not always the big bad like it there.
There are other other incarnations that it was the
baby I Herman, Baby Herman. I can never remember his name.

(21:04):
Baby Herman was the bad guy and that Jessica was actually the
one that like, did it so. So yeah, but I mean, you kind of
know from the beginning when Doom shows up.
Like you knew he was the bad guyfrom the beginning, so.
Yeah, it's very scary. Did you hear though about in an
earlier draft who Doom was supposed to be?

(21:25):
The one that shot Bambi's mother.
He's. Supposed to be the hunter that
shot Bambi's mother, yeah. I mean, honestly, the worst
villain. The biggest villain?
Yeah. You know it.
It sounds like this is normally not the case where they do the
the movies better than the book,but it sounds like this might be

(21:47):
one of those rare cases. Yeah, I was going to say it.
Would you? Do you prefer the book or the
movie? Oh, 100% the movie, the book was
so weird. Yeah, I did.
I did see though that even Gary Wolf like actually said he he
liked the the changes they made and he liked the movie.
So and I want to say he made thesequel after the movie.

(22:09):
So maybe as he was more is more of a sequel of the movie than a
sequel of the book. Yeah, I guess so.
But from what I've read, I haven't read the sequel, but
from what I've gathered is that yeah, he ignores who sends her
Roger Rabbit completely. And but then there's a line
where Jessica makes a comment about how she had a weird dream

(22:31):
and she describes what happened in the first book, so it's
almost like he just retcons it as the entire first was a dream.
The 80s Flick Flashback Podcast will return after these
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(22:52):
world, so many issues, I don't think I can bear it.
Hell, friendo, it sounds like you could use a dose of pop
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What's that? Some sort of pop culture theme
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But I already get my entertainment news from Variety
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(23:15):
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all. Right, so back to pre
production. So the book was written in 81.
Robert Zemeckis offered his services to direct in 1982, but

(24:43):
Disney declined because his two previous films, I want to Hold
Your Hand and Used Cars, had been box office bombs.
So between 81 and 83, Disney developed test footage with
Daryl Van Siders as animation director and actually using Paul
Rubens Pee Wee Herman as the voice of Roger Rabbit.

(25:04):
The project. Yeah.
The project was revamped in 85 by Michael Eisner, the then new
CEO of Disney. Amlin Entertainment, which
consisted of Steven Spielberg, Frank Marshall, and Kathleen
Kennedy were approached to produce the movie alongside
Disney. The original budget was
projected at 50 million, which Disney felt was too expensive.

(25:25):
The film was finally greenlit when the budget decreased to 30
million, which at the time wouldhave still made it the most
expensive animated film ever produced, which we'll find out
later it was the most expensive because it went to 70 million by
the time they finished. Typical Hollywood story there.
How much of that was in licensing though?
That's yeah, yeah. Yeah.

(25:47):
So Walt Disney Studios chairman Jeffrey Katzenberg argued that
the hybrid of live action and animation would save Walt Disney
Feature Animation. Spielberg's contract included.
I'm sorry, Spielberg's contract included an extensive amount of
creative control and a large percentage of the box office
profits. Disney kept all merchandising
rights. Spielberg convinced Warner

(26:08):
Brothers, Weisher Studios, Harvey Comics, King Feature
Syndicate, Felix the Cat Productions, Turner
Entertainment, and Universal Pictures to lend, quote UN
quote, their characters to appear in the film, within some
cases, stipulations of how thosecharacters were portrayed.
For example, Disney's Donald Duck and Warner Brothers Daffy
Duck appear as equally talented Julian pianist, and Mickey Mouse

(26:32):
and Bugs Bunny also share a screen share a scene which they
had to make sure they had exactly the same amount.
On the screen time, yeah. Apart from the agreement and
some of the original voice artists reprising their roles,
Warner Brothers and the various other companies were not
involved in the production of Roger Rabbit.
Executives of Warner Brothers were displeased by animators
using the Daffy design by Bob Clampett and demanded they use

(26:56):
the design by Chuck Jones. In response, the Mecca said
separate artists animate Daffy using Jones's design to satisfy
Warner Brothers were to have Klampus design in the final
film. The producers were unable to
acquire the rights to use Popeye, Tom and Jerry, Little
Lulu, Casper, or Terry Tunes characters for appearances from
their respective owners. Terry Gilliam was offered the

(27:17):
chance to direct, but found the project too technically
challenging. Yeah.
Roberts and Mekas was hired to direct in 1985 based on the
success of Revancing the Stone and, of course, Back to the
Future Disney executives. Disney executives were
continuing to suggest Daryl Van Siders direct the animation, but

(27:38):
Spielbergens and Mekas decided against it.
Richard Williams was eventually hired to direct the animation,
and Mecca's wanted the film to exhibit Disney's high standard
of animation, Warner Brothers characterization, and Tex Avery
humor. So.
They, I think they accomplished all three of those.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love though, that in

(28:00):
that story you got Steven Spielberg and Jeffrey Katzenberg
as people behind this movie, andthen they would go on and found
DreamWorks, like 2 of the three that founded DreamWorks.
Where it all began all right so let's jump in I mean you know I
I'm not going to talk to it there's so much technical stuff

(28:20):
that's cool about this movie, but I'm not going to dig too
much into the technical stuff there's plenty of documentaries
and behind the scenes features that you can watch on that it's
hard to kind of explain that stuff on a podcast anyway so but
let's jump into casting if you're.
Ready. Trust us, the technical stuff's
really cool. It is.
Yeah, it is. Take our word for it.

(28:42):
So we got Bob Hoskins as Eddie Valiant.
Do you know what who Spielberg'sfirst choice was to play Eddie
Valiant? I've heard this but I cannot
remember it right now. I.
Don't, I don't think Ford. I don't know if he, I don't know

(29:02):
if that would have worked. I think Bob Hoskins was the
perfect choice. Yeah, so Harrison Ford was the
first choice, but he was his. His price was too high.
Chevy Chase was the second choice, but he wasn't.
Interested. Bill Murray was also considered
for the role, but due to his. I think that's that's the one
I'd heard before. Weird method of receiving offers

(29:23):
for roles. He missed out on it, which he
later said if he knew he would have offered, he would have
taken it. That's, yeah, that exact story.
That's the one I've heard. Is that Bill Murray?
Bill Murray just never responded.
Like, yeah. Yeah, Eddie Murphy reportedly
turned down the role because he misunderstood the concept of
tunes and humans coexisting. He later regretted his decision.

(29:46):
Other names, of course. You know, rumored Robin
Williams, Robert Redford, Jack Nicholson, Sylvester Stallone,
Edward James Olmos, Ed Harris, Charles Grodin, and Sounds.
Like somebody just throwing everything at the wall and
saying what's? Right.
So I will. I will say this.
You know, I think Bill Murray could have done it.

(30:09):
I actually think Charles Grodin would have been pretty good.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think Robin Williams would have brought a different would
have brought a different take, but I think he would have been
good. I don't know.
Robin Robin Williams would have been almost crazier than the
tunes themselves. Yeah, that's.
Because he had the ability to tone it down, he did.

(30:31):
In in 80. In 88.
Well, yeah, sure. Yeah, I mean, we all saw the
world. According to Garp, we did not.
Yeah, I mean, if he if he wantedto like do something completely
different and play the straight man, because that's pretty much
what Eddie Valiant is to Roger through most of it.

(30:54):
Yeah, but then he has the littleclown moment at the end, which I
think would. Have been really fun to see
Robin Williams then like that would have been the moment
because everybody would have been waiting for it to.
Happen like it's. Robin Williams, next to this
crazy cartoon character, he's basically a cartoon character in
real life on his own, and then it gets to the cartoon moment

(31:15):
where he finally gets to let loose.
That would have been really satisfying to watch.
I just don't know if Robin Williams could have pulled off
the, you know, noir detective like Bob Hoskins did.
I think Charles Grodin could have done that.
I think I think Bill Murray possibly could have done that,
but in a different. I think, yeah, I think Robin

(31:36):
Williams could have done it because we saw that later in his
career. I just don't think 88 audiences
would have. Wanted it.
Wanted it. Like, I don't think I don't, I
think it would have. I don't think it would have
worked in his favor in this movie.
But maybe. But I would have liked it.
Yeah. If somebody if AI wants to do
that for me. No, don't, don't, don't speak

(31:59):
that into existence. Right, right.
So ultimately, Bob Hoskins was chosen by Spielberg because of
his acting skill and because Spielberg believed he had a
hopeful demeanor and he looked like he belonged in that era,
which I think is 100% accurate. So a little bit about Hoskins.
He's known for intense but sensitive portrayals of tough

(32:20):
guy characters. He played lead roles in The Long
Good Friday in 1980, Mona Lisa in 86 Mermaids in 1990.
Get supporting roles. Supporting roles in The Cotton
Club at 84, Hook in 91, Nixon in95, Enemy at the Gates in 2001,
Made in Manhattan 2002, Snow White and the Huntsman in 2012.

(32:43):
And of course, he portrayed Mario in the 1993 film Super
Mario Brothers, based on the video game.
And he also voiced Boris Gusanovin the animated film Balto in
95. So yeah.
Yeah, I was sitting here going. Come on, Tim.
I don't. When I saw you doing this, I was
like, I'm getting there, I'm getting there.
Give me a second. Come on, Bob.

(33:04):
Bob Hoskins said that for two weeks after seeing the movie,
his young son wouldn't talk to him.
When finally asked why, his son said he couldn't believe his
father would work with cartoon characters such as Bugs Bunny
and not let him meet them. That's great.
The cute story. Cute story.
So. So yeah, I think we all agree
Bob Costens was definitely the perfect choice for the.
Mario, yes. It's a media Mario.

(33:28):
Sorry. There's a whole episode of Pop
Culture Roulette dedicated to how Super Mario is one of the
worst comic book movies ever made.
So. And you you talk about Double
Dragon in that episode. Too We do it's it Double dragon
got pretty high too, but. All right, next on the list,
Christopher Lloyd is Judge Doom.Tim Curry audition for the role

(33:52):
because too scary. I'm too terrified.
Too scary? Yeah.
Christopher Lee was also considered for the role but
turned it down. John Cleese also expressed
interest but was deemed not scary enough.
So that kind of happy medium, Peter O'Toole, F Murray,
Abraham, Roddy McDowell, Sting were also considered.
All men who didn't take the offer seriously.

(34:14):
There's no way Peter O'Toole would have even entertained the
offer. Right.
Right. You know what?
You know what's funny? You said?
Roddy McDowell Malcolm McDowell would have been.
Would have been. He would have done it because
he'll say yes to everything. Yeah, like, you mean like Super
Mario Brother? Yes, exactly.

(34:38):
No, man, but he really could have played Judge Doom.
Yeah, Yeah, he could have done good.
But Christopher Lloyd was like the stuff of nightmares.
Oh, for sure, just. Absolutely terrifying.
Oh yeah, we're going to get intoit.
So he was cast because he previously worked with the
mechas and Spielberg going back to the future of course, but he
said he compared his part as Doom to his previous role as the

(34:59):
Klingon commander. Krug is a Kruger Krug in Star
Trek 3 The Search for Spock. Both overly evil characters
which he considered fun to play.He chose to avoid blinking his
eyes while on camera to portray the character.
So if you watch the movie. Wearing dark sunglasses.
Yeah. You get that he's not blinking.

(35:20):
You can tell. Yeah, of.
Course, he's best known for portraying Emmett Brown and Back
to the Future trilogy, the TV show Taxi.
We've covered Christopher Lloyd and are Back to the future
episodes. So we we know his filmography,
but he was great. I mean, it's it's good.
I mean, I like to see him as that in that bad guy character.
But yeah, I mentioned this one. Stubby K as Marvin Acme, the

(35:43):
owner of the Acme Corporation who gets murdered early in only
because he originated the roles of Nicely Nicely Nicely.
Johnson and Guys and Dolls and Mary and Sam and Lil Abner.
Introducing the two show show stopping numbers of the era Sit
Down You're Rocking the boat andJubilation Tea Cornpone.
He reprised these roles in the movie version of the shows.

(36:05):
Other well known roles include Herman and Bob Fosse's Sweet
Charity and Sam the Shade and Cat Ballou with y'all's favorite
Jane Fonda. So yeah, so I had mentioned him
because Kate had had that great filmography then.
Joanna Cassidy is Dolores. She began working as a model in
1960s and made a professional acting debut in 73, appearing in

(36:28):
the thriller films The Laughing Policeman in The Outfit.
She later starred in the films Bank, shot in 74, The Late Show
in 77. She played the replicant Zora in
the science fiction film Blade Runner in 1982.
She was also in Under Fire in 83.
She was on the TV show Buffalo Bill with Dabney Coleman from 83
to 84, and she's been in severalother movies like The Package in

(36:51):
89, Don't Tell Mom The Babysitter's Dead in 91, and
Ghost of Mars in 2001. Well.
That's right, she's Rose. She's Rose.
I'm glad on that. Rose.
What is it? What's the line?
I'll get right on that Rose. I'm.
Right on that, Rose. Yeah.
Don't tell mom the babysitter's dead.

(37:13):
Great movie. And then I'm I'm skipping a lot
because we're trying to try to keep it brief, but I will
mention Joel Silver's cameo as the director of the Baby Herman
cartoon was a prank on Disney chief Michael Eisner by Roberts
and Mekas and Steven Spielberg. Eisner and Silver hated each
other from their days at Paramount Pictures in the early

(37:33):
80s, particularly after the difficulties involved in making
48 Hours in 1982. Silver shaved off his beard,
paid his own expenses and kept his name out of all initial cash
sheets. When Eisner was told after the
movie was complete who was playing the director, he
reportedly shrugged and said he was pretty good.

(37:54):
Good old Joel Silver, producer extraordinaire.
So anybody else in the live action cast that?
Yeah, I was about to say, yeah, I say, you're not ignoring the
animated. No, no, no, no, no.
No the. I mean live action, you got it.
OK, voice cast, Charles Fleischer as Roger Rabbit.
Benny the Cab, Greasy the Second, The Command of the Tune

(38:17):
Patrol and Psycho a member of the Tune Patrol.
So of course we mentioned Paul Rubens was the original voice in
the testing they were doing and heavily auditioned for the role
but didn't didn't get it. Eddie Diesen who had worked with
the Mecca's previously also auditioned to play the part but
didn't get it. It was eventually given to
Charles Fleischer. Fleischer is best known for his

(38:39):
recording role as Carvelli and Welcome Back Cotter and for
appearing in films such as Nightmare on Elm Street, The
Polar Express, Rango, Chippendale, Rescue Rangers and
We're Back a Dinosaur story. He made a cameo and Back to the
Future Part 2 and also reprised the role of Rodger Rabbit in the
theatrical shorts we mentioned earlier.
Craziest story which I know you you guys.

(39:00):
Hard to know about. He was so devoted to the role as
the animated title character that he asked the costume
department to create a full bodyRodger rabbit suit for him to
wear on set. Fleischer delivered all of his
lines from inside the suit, claiming that it helped both him
and Co stars Hoskins immerse within the fantastical world of
the film, even though Fleischer admits that Hoskins initially

(39:22):
thought he was out of his mind. Yeah, watching the the behind
the scenes stuff with him just standing there in a Roger Rabbit
costume is just great. It probably helps him actually
look at him the way that character needed to, which is
like this guy. Yeah, but he wasn't on set like

(39:44):
he's, he would say he was off camera, off camera yelling.
He would yell the lines. Still.
Yeah, and Bob Hoskins talked about like he didn't do, he
didn't work again for like a year after this because he said
spending 8 hours a day like imagining these characters.
Yeah, he said you start hallucinating like what you
think they're going to look like.

(40:05):
He said he would be at parties talking to a lady with a hat on
and thinking there's a fox coming out of the hat because
he'd been like. So much trying to imagine these
fake things in front of him so. Yeah.
He was so good at it, though. Yeah.
Yeah. Oh.
For sure. Considering that even nowadays
with when they do, you know, theCGI meets real world, there's

(40:25):
always the like the dead stare Iguess is the best way to call
it, where you can tell they're not looking directly at this
this fake character. Bob Hoskins, though.
You believe there's an animated rabbit standing next to him.
Yeah, yeah. And this would have been, I
mean, we talked, you talked about it already.

(40:47):
This would have been one of the first times that this, you know,
thing was being used. I mean, CGI or blending
animation with live action was just, I mean, now it's just
ubiquitous. But back then this was a not.
This was a not. I mean, I'm sure that's why it
was. So.
I mean, as big as it was, it wasa novelty.
I mean, it was like, wait, they have figured out how to do that.

(41:09):
Yeah, because, I mean, you saw it back in the 60s, you know,
they did it in Mary Poppins. Of course, Bed Knobs and
Broomsticks is notorious for that scene.
But yeah, there really wasn't a lot of it.
And there's such a massive difference between what they did
with bad nugs and Broomsticks and Mary.
Hopkins. But what they did here that I
think there was part of it was just like, wow, they made it

(41:32):
look like they were really animated characters interacting
with live action characters. Yeah.
And I know, I know we weren't going to talk a lot about the
technical stuff, but I I the there's one of the behind the
scenes feature that you can watch where they talk about
having to light the animated characters and especially the

(41:53):
scene where the light bulb is swinging and the way they had
had to do Roger. I did have.
This in my notes later down well.
So for the movie animation director Richard Williams set
out to break the three rules that previously were conventions
for combining live action and animation.
First, move the camera as much as possible so the tunes don't

(42:17):
look pasted on flat backgrounds.Second, use lighting and shadows
to an extreme that was never before attempted.
And 3rd, have the tunes interactwith real world objects and
people as much as possible. And this is what you're talking
about. Let's say it ago Laramie.
When Eddie takes Roger to the backroom of the bar where
Dolores works to cut apart the handcuffs, the lamp from the

(42:39):
ceiling is bumped and swinging. Lots of extra work was needed to
make the shadows match between the actual room shots and
animation Today. Quote, UN Quote.
Bump The lamp is a term used by many Disney employees to refer
to going that extra mile on an effort.
I'm sorry, on an effect just to make it a little more special,
even though most audience members will never notice it.

(42:59):
Yeah. Which, once again, I'd never
would have. Subtle stuff.
Yeah. I'd never notice real.
Yeah, exactly what makes it real.
Exactly. So yeah.
I mean, even even some of the moments where with some of the
special effects, you know, practical effects where like
when Eddie's got Roger underwater in the sink and it's

(43:21):
not, it's not Roger. It's when the weasel splashes
the water. Yeah.
Like that practical effect just makes that makes that whole
scene on a whole nother level. And but but it's, it is, it's
those subtle things like Roger bouncing on the bed.
And not only does the bed shake,but you see the imprints of his

(43:43):
feet as he's bouncing. Like, yeah, it's so good.
But. We were talking about cast.
We should probably go back. To cast.
That's right. Yeah, We're we're good.
Anything to add Nicholas before we get back to cast?
No, I think we've covered it all.
Let's let's, let's talk more about the cast.
OK, we'll, we'll get there. And then we got Kathleen Turner
as a speaking voice and Amy Irving as a singing voice, as

(44:05):
Jessica Rabbit, both uncredited,which I have no idea why.
Why? Why?
Why? So we'll talk about Kathleen
Turner rose to prominence for the portrayal of Maddie Walker
and Body Heat in 81. She works solidly through the
80s in films such as The Man with Two Brains in 83 with Steve
Martin, Romancing the Stone 84, Pritzie's Honor, The Jewel of

(44:26):
the Nile, Switching Channels, Accidental Tourist, War of the
Roses in 89. Peggy Sue got Married in 86, VIY
Warshawski in 91, Serial Mom in 94, Marlene and Me in 2008, and
Dumb and Dumber to 2014. But yeah, she was the perfect
voice. She was also nine months

(44:46):
pregnant when she was recording The Voice of.
No way for her the. Chandler's dad, everybody.
Yeah, and then Amy Irving, who did the singing voice, made her
feature film debut, and Brian DePalma's Carrie in 1976 had the
lead role in The Fury in 1978. Supernatural.

(45:08):
I don't think that's the same Amy Irving.
According to Wikipedia it is. Well, I think Wikipedia is
wrong. There's no way that I 'cause I
had when you said Amy Irving, I said that can't be the Amy
Irving from Kerry. I'm pretty sure it is though.
That was singing the singing voice.
Because she's listed as a a actress last singer on Wikipedia

(45:34):
for her stage and film work. She was cast in Barbra
Streisand's musical epic Yentl in 83.
She was nominated for Academy Award for Best Supporting
Actress. IMDb has a different Amy Irving
listed and she's only known for.Her Internet is after.
Rabbit though, yeah. So what part of the Internet is

(45:55):
correct? I mean, I'd love for it to be
the Amy Irving from Carrie. So, Amy.
Irving, if you're listening, please let us know which one you
are. Are you the IMDb Amy Irving or
the Wikipedia? Jessica Rabbit was based exactly
on four movie femme fatales. Writer Gary K Wolf had based

(46:16):
Jessica primarily on the cartooncharacter Red Text Averys Vixen
from Red Hot Riding Hood in 1943, who performs a musical
number in Red Hot Riding Hood asJessica would do with the Ink
and Paint Club. In addition, animation director
Richard Williams said he based Jessica mostly on Rita Hayworth
in Gilda from 1946, Veronica Lake for the peekaboo hair and

(46:39):
at the suggestion of Robert Zemeckis, quote UN quote, the
look trademark of Lauren Bacall.Vicki Dugan has also been named
as inspiration for her look. I can definitely see the Rita
Hayworth. Several voice actors made cameos
as the voice of the characters they have played before.
Those would be Tony and and Zelmo, friends Donald Duck,

(46:59):
Wayne Alwine as Mickey Mouse andMel Blanc as Bugs Bunny, Daffy
Duck, Porky Pig, Sylvester and Tweety Bird.
Most noticeably was Mae Kwestle as Betty Boop.
Mae did Betty's voice from 1930 until the character was retired
in 1939. She then became Popeye, the
sailor's girlfriend. Olive oil, you still got it.

(47:21):
Boop boop, bee doop. I loved Betty Boop.
All right, anybody else from thecast, there were a lot of voice
actors that would that did smallthings, but.
I mean, I, I didn't really go into the the voice acting side
of it. I just, I didn't know if we were
going to talk about the various different, like tons of animated

(47:43):
cameos just in the background ofstuff.
Yeah. I almost put that in there, but
it was like the list is huge. I mean it's like it's chunks of
of of names, so. Yeah, I didn't even write any of
it down. I was just going to.
I mean, it was just and stuff that I caught this time that I
wouldn't have, would have missedthe time before.
Like when they're just walking around the studio.

(48:05):
They had all the cows for the the, you know, casting call.
And like, I was like, those are all the Clarabelle cows and
those are all the, you know, there's the like all the
Fantasia stuff and. Yeah, lots of nods in the
background for sure. So yeah, I love the when the
mops are cleaning up and the guy, the guy on saxophone is

(48:26):
playing the song from Fantasia, Yeah.
I always got super excited aboutBetty Boop that I know it's not
it's a little more than a cameo,but it's just such a cute
because for some reason, like I was obsessed with those cartoons
when I was younger. Like I just loved Betty Boop
cartoons and to see her in the movie, I was just like, it was

(48:50):
just, it's fun and it's just cute.
And it makes sense that you know, he would they would be
friends. It's just a cute idea that the
two of them would be friends. Well then the we talked about
Mary Poppins, you know, having the Penguins be the waiters just
like they were and the Super supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

(49:11):
part of a of Mary Poppins. How?
Do you spell that? Nope, not going to do it.
Yeah, I think the the animation director said that like in his
mind, that's where they found those Penguins.
Was they for to have them in Mary Poppins.
They found the animated Penguinsat the at the bar trying to tie

(49:32):
those two things together. All right, let's talk about
iconic scenes. When someone says Who Framed
Roger Rabbit, what's the first thing that pops in your head?
I mean, there's dueling pianos that's that's got to be up there
towards the. I mean just seeing Daffy and

(49:53):
and. Donald.
Donald just go at it and like playing the piano and then just
just beating each other like that's one of them.
The introduction to Benny the cab I think is pretty good.
I mean, but I mean, I mean iconic scenes is clearly Jessica
Rabbit coming out and singing the first song.

(50:15):
Oh, and Doom dipping the shoe and.
Not that scene is on my list to talk about for a different
reason though. Yes, but but, but we are talking
whether it is it is because it traumatized the whole generation
of us, it is still iconic. Yeah.

(50:37):
All right, fair enough. Yeah.
I always, I don't know, mine wasanother Jessica Rabbit scene.
I was always like, intrigued by the scene where she comes in to
like, visit him. Like she comes into his office
and it's like super flirty but also vaguely threatening.

(50:57):
And then she leaves and then hisgirlfriend walks in and he's
just like an idiot with his pants around his ankles.
And I I don't know. Because he hadn't got his
suspenders on yet, so. Yes, but but still like it's
very calculating of Jessica Rabbit to like put him in that
position because he he screwed her over.

(51:19):
So she turns around and does thesame thing to him and it's just
really it's a funny scene, but also like exciting and gets the
gets the movie started. Again, the the shoe into the dip
was always one for me. Honestly, just the the like

(51:39):
first big interaction between Eddie and Roger I think is
always stuck with me because yeah, I mean, that shot of Roger
kissing Eddie is like on anything that shows a blurb of
that movie, it's usually that shot.
Yeah, there's a few scenes like we mentioned, like, of course,

(52:01):
you know, Jessica Rabbit's introduction, the scene like
kind of in that backroom when he's trying to saw off the
handcuffs is that would this help?
And he sends his hand out like you mean you could have taken it
out of any time? No, it was funny.
It was funny. Yeah, so that's that.
I mean, I always think about that scene a lot.
And then the the scene where Judge Doom comes into the bar

(52:21):
and he's doing the shaving your haircut. 2 bits. 2 bits, yeah.
So that I always remember that. So what about favorite scenes?
I will say the scene, I don't know, I just love the idea that
Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny are friends and like Mickey Mouse is
too good to be the one who playstricks, but he really loves it

(52:46):
when Bugs Bunny does it. Right, right.
Go ahead and let him have it, Bugs.
Ain't I? Asked Dinka.
It's it's just that idea that itwould be that he's too good to
like actually be bad, but like he's like, you should do it.
I think for and again this this could have been a connection

(53:08):
with the video game again because I remember it being part
of the video game. There's something I just have
always loved about the gun with the old cowboy boys.
Even though they are a complete waste of anything and serve no
purpose in the movie whatsoever,it is solve nothing.

(53:31):
It is still one of my favorite parts of of that movie with
those old classic western stars voicing them.
Too. Yeah, I.
Can't think of any of their names but I do as soon as like
three of them speak I'm like I know I'm picturing.

(53:51):
I'm picturing who that. Is yeah, Oh yeah, yeah.
I love it when he shoots the oneup in the air and and it's
flying up and then it takes out the tomahawk and then yeah,
breaks the bottle. Breaks the bottle.
Yeah, My favorite bits. What about you, Nicholas?
I mean the I mean there's just so many little like the
technical scenes, like we talkedabout with the the weasel slap

(54:12):
in the water are Roger breaking plates over his head when the
record is skipping right? Just like watching it now,
realizing how much of A technical marvel that movie was.
I mean, now, like, I mean, it's beat a dead horse, but it's so
we're so used to it now. Like every Marvel, every Marvel
movie does it now. And it's just, you know, it's

(54:34):
just, it's, we're so used to seeing it, but seeing it done in
88 and seeing it done so seamlessly is just, you know.
Yeah, though what's crazy is, isthat it's when the comic book
character, I say comic book. When the cartoon characters are
shown from a distance is when they look the worst.

(54:56):
When they're close up, it's great.
But there were shots of when you're seeing, you know, Roger
and Jessica hanging, and it's from a distance, and I'm like,
that animation looks horrible. Yeah, and then there's there's
another one too. When after when they're in.
Oh, gosh. Mark Maroon.
Maroon. What's his name?
Mark Maroon. Mark Maroon's office showing

(55:21):
Roger the pictures of the Patty cake and like the way he's
sitting at the chair. I don't know if they made him
look distressed because he was distressed, but the animation
looks really funky there. Like it doesn't look clean and
that always I, I, I probably didn't notice it the first time.
It is. I've watched the last couple of
times. It's like maybe because your
focus isn't supposed to be on him because he's not the one
that's talking, but it's just like the animation just looks

(55:44):
really. Not I've.
I've always thought Jessica looked weird in those pictures
too. Yeah, she does because good
point. Those pictures were done in pre
production before they finalizedher and look at the end.
So she does. There are some differences, but
they had to leave it in because they the the big the big.

(56:06):
Gone over budget? Yeah, but the biggest challenge
was they filmed everything. All the live action was filmed
first, so no animation was done until after.
Yeah, but they said if anything was cut or changed, meaning you,
you couldn't just trim a little,trim a little there, they would
have to completely like scrap everything they'd done and redo
it, redo it again. So some stuff they just had to

(56:28):
like we just have to leave it in.
So yeah. And I mean to talk about the
petty cake scene because you brought it up earlier.
So all right, I was noticing like, they really were playing
up how dirty it was supposed to be.
Like, you know, like you know when, when you know Valia is
watching it, you're like, oh man, what is going on there?
Yeah, what you're hearing. Yeah, what you're.
Hearing and then you see the pictures and it's like, no, they

(56:50):
literally were actually just playing Patty cake.
Yes. Yeah.
Yeah, which is what makes it line even funnier.
You got to be kidding me. Like, you know.
But they still like react to it on the same level as if it were
something filthy. Maroon says, yeah, where he's
like, you know, don't worry, Rodger, you're not the only man

(57:11):
whose wife played Patty cake with someone else or something
like that. But I love how they they use the
pictures and Roger flipping through them so fast that it
actually makes them. Animates.
Them animates them, yeah. Yeah, but going back to the the
animation and how well it was done, I think what just going
going back how the movie opens Drew drew you in from the

(57:33):
beginning. Like it started as like a
typical cartoon that you I wouldhave watched as a kid, Tom and
Jerry ish. You know, where it's just like
so many crazy things happening and trying to like save the
baby, whatever. But I remember just watching
that scene and just laughing hysterically because all the
crazy things were as anything's happened.
And then for the thing, the refrigerator, whatever fall on

(57:54):
his head. They open the refrigerator and
it becomes real. Yeah.
I mean, that was just like, I mean, that would be to us, like
our generation, what Wizard of Oz was when it went from black
and white to color. Like that's I put those two
films on the same level of like changing how we looked at films.

(58:14):
And what a great way of like establishing the world in that
moment of just like this is justlike any other kind of movie set
thing that you're used to seeingportrayed.
And he screwed it up because thethings going around his head are
wrong. Right.
Yeah, and that is so funny and. It always that that scene, this
time I watched it, I was like, why do they care so much that

(58:37):
they're birds and not stars? Like it ultimately doesn't
matter, but, you know, they werelike, but that's not what
scripted. I was like, yeah, but it's still
like, you know. Well, and then and then there's
the implication that they that'sthe like 20 something time
they've done that scene and he keeps getting it wrong.
And then they they called because I don't think I caught

(59:00):
on to this the first time. At the end, he gets hit in the
head and they're finally stars. And he goes look stars.
Yeah, ready when you are ready. Old.
Yeah, yeah. I will say though, as great as
the animation in the real world is, I am so glad the Toontown
scene is not longer. Yeah, because it does not look

(59:22):
good. Ready to be in Toontown?
Yeah, yeah. It it is funny because watching
it again today, it was like likeyou felt like the whole first
half of the movie was to get himto Toontown, like the being the
big reveal of what it's like in Toontown.
And like watching it now, it's like it's really not that great.
Like it's just it, it didn't it that that part doesn't hold up

(59:46):
as well as other parts of it so.But hey, Eddie Valiant stepped
into the Toontown so that Brad Pitt could step into cool world
that's. Sure we can.
You can say that. Oh, going to bring up cool
world, aren't we? Yes.
Yes, I am. I would think Michael Jordan's

(01:00:07):
stepping into Space Jam. Cool came first though.
So there was there was a bridge there.
Yeah, yeah. Any favorite lines or any We
don't typically talk about lines, but I have one that that
has always been my favorite line.

(01:00:28):
Let me go ahead with it. So I love it.
It's it's the two-part with Roger Eddie.
Eddie says something about the the probate and he said, yeah,
probate. Uncle Thumper had a problem with
his probate. He had to take these big pills
and drink lots of water. Not prostate, you idiot.
Probate. Once again, a joke that went

(01:00:49):
over my head as a kid, but it was still funny.
But now that I'm an adult, makesit even more funny.
So yeah. Yeah.
That's that's always been like my my all time favorite line
from the movie. I always like the I mean, it's
the IT was what I almost said, and then I decided to throw
Laramie off by complimenting him.
But it's the Jessica Rabbit saying I'm not bad, I'm just

(01:01:10):
drawn that way. Of course we.
Could have we could have almost made that one of the iconic
scenes, but. Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I think it was. It was on one of the one of
those lists of the most iconic lines or most memorable movie
lines and. So ever since I originally saw
this movie, The way that CharlesFleischer has Robert's Roger say

(01:01:35):
his peas. Please.
Which has always stuck with me. So that's always, you know, it's
like, you know, I have always loved that.
So anytime he does that in the movie, that's what that I'll
say. That's my favorite.
It scratches the brain itch just.
Just right, that's kind of how he got the role because they

(01:01:55):
wanted him to come up with some kind of some kind of signature
of some sort. And that's and he had done
something similar in like a different animated movie.
So he'd kind of combine those two things together.
So all right, let's jump into some scenes and trivia and if we
cope with any other things and designing Roger, we talked about

(01:02:15):
this for Jessica Rabbit friend Designing Roger Williams wanted
to incorporate elements from classic animation he's expressed
at Roger's meant to embody the production caliber of Disney,
the character design of Warner Brothers Looney Tunes, and a
personality and sense of humor of animator Tex Avery.
Furthermore, Roger's anatomy andattire can be broken up by
studio influence. His face is meant to resemble a

(01:02:38):
Looney Tunes character, his Corso a Disney hero, while those
overalls are a nod to Goofy, hisgloves to Mickey Mouse, and his
bow tie, the Porky Pig. Guess I've never thought about
it that way, but yeah, I mean, now that you say it, yeah, it's.
Makes perfect sense. Who Framed Roger Rabbit subverts
the old maxim about cartoon characters never dying by

(01:02:59):
introducing the one thing that proves fatal to the to sue them
all, the liquid concoction knownas the dip.
There is actually a bit of science behind the plot device.
The ingredients of the dip are revealed to be turpentine,
benzene, and acetone, which are all paint thinners commonly used
to erase animation cells. In other words, to wipe out
cartoon characters. Yeah, that was funny because

(01:03:22):
Ruby asks. Like, what even is that?
And Laramie's paint thinner. Yeah, yeah.
Because that because even Lily, like towards the end, she's
like, so it doesn't hurt humans.No, it's paint thinner.
Yeah. And then we just ignore the fact
that they walk right through it at the end when they're walking
around Doom. Rinsed.
It away? No, there's still a puddle of it

(01:03:42):
underneath Doom and they walk right through it.
Yeah, rinsed. It, yeah, it wasn't watered down
enough, I guess. Then he got better, didn't he?
Yeah. Didn't his?
Didn't his tires heal? Yeah.
So since we're bringing that up,there are numerous clues to the
fact that Judge Doom is a tune #1 despite Dip being harmless to

(01:04:05):
live action humans, Doom always wears gloves when demonstrating
it. 2 His waxy skin, fake Adam'sapple, and oversized teeth.
Three, his cloak is always blowing with a slight breeze,
even when indoors. A common cartoon villain staple.
I never know that. His stiff, exaggerated movements
resemble that of a tune 5 Getting around quickly in a

(01:04:28):
toony sort of way. 6 Wearing hisclothes well with no exposed
skin showing around his body. And my favorite one, which is
what I've always thought of the fact that he jumped out of the
way when the dip was tipped overwhen Roger Rabbit had a drink
and went ballistic. Also, he was not in pain after
being shot by the gun Jessica had in Toontown.
Being able to get away so easilyunharmed.

(01:04:49):
Yeah. Yeah, when the when the dip
falls over and he like quickly jumps back, like everybody else
is jumping back, but they don't know what it is.
But he's like the first one to like jump away from the dip
coming at him. Yeah, I was.
I was noticing after repeated viewings like now, once you knew
the secret, like you're like, oh, OK.
Yeah, you kind of. Oh yeah, it's gone.

(01:05:10):
But you know, the first time yousee it like you.
I mean, unless maybe maybe the adults did.
But as a kid, I definitely didn't.
Oh yeah, yeah. No, he was just nightmare fuel.
Oh yeah, that's all I could think of.
When I saw him. He was like, I'm going to have
bad dreams about this tonight. Especially at the end with his
high pitched voice in his red eyes.

(01:05:30):
The Rockets that come out of hiseyeballs.
They're knives. They're knives.
Yeah. Even worse.
Yeah, so an elaborate funeral scene for Marvin Acne set at the
famous Forest Lawn Memorial Parkin Glendale was discarded from
the shooting script in pre production.
The scene consisted of Foghorn Leghorn delivering the eulogy
and the Harvey Tunes Jack-in-the-box logo springing

(01:05:53):
out of Acne's casket to the tuneof Pop Goes the Weasel with a
giant funeral wreath attached. I say, I say, we're all here
together. Right, right, right.
I'm gonna. I'm going to need them to
release that. Footage.
Yeah. Also in the scene, there are
many cartoon cameos that were eventually cut, including Casper
the Friendly Ghost who eventually sends everyone
fleeing, Tom and Jerry, Elmer Fudd, Pepe Le Pew, Screwy

(01:06:17):
Squirrel, Superman and Lois Lane, Felix the Cat, Chip and
Dale, Baby Huey, Mighty Mouse, Crusader Rabbit, Little Lulu,
Popeye, Olive Oil, Bluto, Wimpy Heckle and Jekyll, Cinderella,
Alice the White Rabbit, the Mad Hatter, the March Hare, Winnie
the Pooh, Tigger, Piglet, Peter Pan and Wendy, Herman and Catnip

(01:06:38):
and Little Audrey, amongst others.
Yeah, so just a. Lot of those were the ones.
That they couldn't. Get right.
That's probably why that scene got exactly production.
Yeah. It was really just a scene to
cut like fit as many of those cameos in so.
Cuz I'm sure even though it did,they do say that Spielberg, you
know, did work with the Fleischer company.

(01:07:00):
I'm sure DC had a say. Oh yeah, in in using Superman
and Lois. Did did Warner Brothers own DC
at that time? I don't know, 80 probably
because 89, that's when Batman came out.
So yeah, probably Warner Brothers probably did own DC at
the time. So but yeah, now that would I

(01:07:23):
mean, obviously it would have been cool to see all of those
together. I mean, that was like that was
like those say no to drugs Saturday morning specials that
they had when we were kids whereit was, you know, Winnie the
Pooh and the Real Ghostbusters and all of them where it all
come together to teach some kid about, you know, saying no to

(01:07:44):
drugs. Seeing all of those characters
together. I like when when you brought up
something, it reminded me I liketalking about.
Another line that I liked was when Eddie and Maroon are
talking about. What do you know about showbiz?
There's no business sign though.Yeah, yeah.

(01:08:06):
And I love that because it was very reminiscent of the later,
you know? Do you know the muffin man?
It's just they they say this thing in just casual
conversation. I just, I get a kick out of it.
Yeah. That was a good line.
All right, let's start wrapping it up.
While the film was very well received by critics, it has not
been without detractors, especially and surprisingly,

(01:08:26):
among actual Golden Age veteransand fans.
Chuck Jones in particular, who worked on the film, ended up
loathing the final product. He called it an obnoxious,
witless misunderstanding of the old cartoons it set out to
honor, and he even accused Robert Zemeckis of robbing
Richard Williams of any creativeinput and for apparently ruining
the piano sequence that he and Williams have planned together.

(01:08:49):
Cartoon historian Richard Barrier to ride of the animation
direction as disastrous and Frank Thomas of Disney's 9 Old
Men was strongly disappointed and Richard Williams failure to
have any actual pathos come fromthe main character himself.
John Cricfalsu maybe has also not spoken highly of it thinking

(01:09:09):
and had great animators but was misdirected, filled with filled
with takes and zany movement butno character or wit.
It didn't have their support. Sounds like sour grapes.
Yeah, that's cool. So I was thinking about Chuck
Jones of the fact they didn't actually use his animation
style, but you mentioned it about Daffy, but it was true

(01:09:30):
about Bugs too. Like that wasn't Chuck Jones's
version of Bugs. Yeah.
And I think, and I think some ofit was like they, I think
Zemeckis and Williams wanted to keep the, the versions that were
true to that era, like they, they were wanting to have a more
of the what they, what they looklike at that time in the. 80s in
the 40s. They wanted to be more like the
40s look, which which makes sense.

(01:09:53):
I mean if you're sitting in the 40s, give them the what they
look like in the 40's. The 80s flick Flashback podcast
will return after these messages.
What's up dudes? I'm Jerry D of Totally Rad
Christmas, the podcast that talks all things Christmas in
the 80s. Toys, movies, specials, music,
books, fashion and fads. If it was gnarly during
Christmas in the 80s, he's got it covered.

(01:10:15):
Wait, is there a lot of things to talk about for the 80s and
Christmas? Well, you got the movie giants
like Christmas Vacation, Scrooged and A Christmas Story.
There are TV specials like Muppet Family Christmas,
Claymation Christmas Celebrationand a Garfield Christmas
Special. Plus classic shown every year.
You also jam out to last Christmas.
Do they know it's Christmas and Christmas and Hollis?
But most of all, it was a time for the most bodacious, best

(01:10:37):
selling Christmas toys ever likehe man GI Joe Transformers.
And Cabbage Patch Kids. Yes, them too.
We cover them all plus much more, including standard
segments like Hap Hap, Happiest Memory, Gagging with the spoon,
the other half of the battle. And chant with the littles.
So TuneIn to Totally Rad Christmas Everywhere you get
your podcast, turn the clock back and dive into those warm

(01:10:58):
and fuzzy memories. Later, dudes.
All right, Box office, Who Framed Roger Rabbit?
Who Framed Roger Rabbit debuted in North American theaters on
June 22nd, 1988 and easily took the number one spot at the box
office with no other new releases to compete with it.

(01:11:21):
It was, yeah, nobody wanted to go up against Roger Rabbit at
that point. It was Disney's biggest opening
weekend ever at the time of its release.
It went on to gross $154,000,000in the United States and Canada
and 197,000,000 internationally,coming to a worldwide total of
$351.5 million. At the time of release, it was

(01:11:43):
the 20th highest grossing film of all time.
It was also the second highest grossing film of 1988 behind
Rain Man. So Tom Cruise wins again.
Man, just to think, though, thatthis, this came out the year
before the Disney Renaissance. Yeah, exactly.
Like, yeah, yeah. That's crazy.

(01:12:05):
But it almost funded the Disney.Renaissance.
Yeah, right. Yeah, sounds like it was.
I mean, obviously. You know, I'm sure they were
already working a Little Mermaidat this point though.
Right in. 88 and that would comeout in 89, so they had to have
already been working on it. But I think, I mean, they must
have known pretty early. I mean, you know, the fact that
nobody kind of programmed it andtried to put something else out

(01:12:27):
the same weekend, it must have been pretty clear that they knew
they had a hit on their hands. So they were probably, you know,
banking on making money and funding the Renaissance that was
about to happen or hoping that, you know, they were hoping was
about to happen. Yeah, funny you say you should
say that. I did have this note.
The first Test audience was mostly 18 and 19 year olds who

(01:12:49):
hated it and most of them walkedout in the first 5 minutes.
Roberts and Mecca who had final cuts that he wasn't changing a
thing. So that's not that's not my
audience anyway. He wasn't going for 1819 year
olds so. Our primary audience is 10 year
olds and 40 year olds. Right, exactly.
And nothing in between. Kids and their parents, that's.

(01:13:11):
Right, right, all right, we've come to our new segment where we
take a look at how well this 80sflick holds up today.
The All New Rewatch Ability Nostalgia Meter is our way of
measuring how enjoyable a film is for repeat viewings along
with the waves and nostalgia it brings.
Here's how it works. It's a one to 10 scale.
Any number between 1:00 and 10:00 will do.
Here are a few parameters to help you decide.

(01:13:32):
At the bottom at #1 as I saw it once and that was enough.
Right in the middle of #5 a goodrewatch every couple of years or
the highly rewatchable and full nostalgia at the at the top #10
we'll start with Nicholas. Where does Who Framed Roger
Rabbit rank on your reach Rewatch Ability nostalgia meter?
I think. I'll give it a 7.

(01:13:54):
OK. Solid number, a good solid 7,
you know, and it's, it's not oneI'm going to re watch all the
time, but it is like now that I've watched it a few times,
like it holds up, like I mean itobviously there's a few things
that are a little bit cringy based off today's day and age,
but you know, whatever. Like, I mean, it's what I grew

(01:14:15):
up with, so I'm kind of used to it, you know, so but yeah, I
would say a good solid 7. Like I, you know, I'll, I'll
probably re watch it. Maybe not like every year, but
every couple years, yeah. I can see that.
So I'm going to probably give itjust a little higher.
I'm going to give it a an 8. I think it's very rewatchable.

(01:14:38):
Like the jokes in it, other thanthe stuff like Nicholas was
saying was very that was cringey.
But like the jokes in it are still really funny and there's
just something really charming about how the characters
interact with each other. And, and I just feel like even
though I've been watching this movie for as long as I've been

(01:14:59):
alive, basically as you still get excited when you see certain
characters, you're like, there is Dumbo, Oh, look, there's
Mickey Mouse, there's Minnie. There's so it's exciting it, it
gets and it kind of brings you back to that like childhood
feeling of like getting excited to see your favorite cartoon

(01:15:20):
characters. And so for that reason, like
it's a nostalgia, it's, it's genuinely an enjoyable movie.
I'm going to give it an 8. Yeah, I was right.
I was right there. I was, I was thinking 8.
And for a lot of the same reasons.
Yeah, this is 1. I do agree with Nicholas.
It's not one that I'm immediately going to, you know,

(01:15:41):
say, oh, I want to watch this now.
But it's one that, man, when I when I do watch it, I'm happy
that I watched it. It doesn't feel like a chore to
watch. It.
You know, it's one that I, I think, you know, you're talking
about rewatch ability. It has it like it still holds up

(01:16:02):
even in today's standard. Yeah, there might be some
datedness to it, but I mean, it still works.
Like, it's still it, like I said, it still holds up.
And, you know, just, you know, there's there's not an awful lot
of Roberts Zemeckis that doesn'thave that rewatch ability

(01:16:24):
because I was actually looking through.
I was like, what did he do afterthis?
And of course he did the Back tothe Future.
But then in 92 he did Death Becomes Her, which I absolutely
love. Yeah, great.
You know now a musical on Broadway.
And so, yeah, like I'm looking through and I'm like, you know
what? It wasn't until probably within
the last 15 years that Zemeckis started making things that I

(01:16:45):
just don't care to ever watch again.
But, you know, because he did A Christmas Carol and he did
Pinocchio. Around the time he did polar
express he got super end of rotoscoping that.
You know, yeah, Polar Express worked and then he did Beowulf
so that yeah, but but but still like, you know, Zemeckis has

(01:17:08):
this thing like Bethany said of,of hitting that nostalgia part
of, you know, that even if it isa movie that you don't watch an
awful lot, when you do watch it like you and there's something
about it you enjoy. And that's even true, like for
some of his more serious stuff like Contact is a movie that I
do not think of. A lot.

(01:17:30):
I forgot that he directed that. Yeah, but if I ever do watch it,
like I enjoy it, so. So yeah, it may be a little bit
of a Zemeckis bias on my part, but but again, like I talked
about this video game I rememberfondly as a kid.
So there's a lot about this. I would I would definitely watch

(01:17:50):
this movie over ever reading that book again, no offense.
Wolf. Very good.
Yeah, I'm. I'm right there with you guys.
I think I was like 7. I was kind of going between like
7.5 and eight. I think I'll go with eight
because the nostalgia is very high for me.
Like I said, I have fond memories of seeing in the
theater, you know, the, the having the VHS and watching it.

(01:18:15):
And so yeah, this it's one like I've watched it, you know, three
times in the last, let's say 3 or 4 years.
And I probably won't watch it again this year, but like in the
next year or two, I'll probably,you know, want to watch it
again. So it, it definitely, it has its
parts that hold up for sure. And it's enjoyable, like all the

(01:18:35):
reasons you guys already said sowell.
Thank you guys for joining in. So what's going on with your
podcast, Laramie? What's going on with moving
panels? So yeah, the month of May, we,
we call it the month of animation.
So we've got, we, we do one DC-1Marvel, we're doing for DC

(01:18:56):
Batman and Harley Quinn. And then for Marvel, Doctor
Strange, old animated, before the MCU, there was the animated
Doctor Strange movie. So we're doing that.
We're deciding the best Harley Quinn voice actors.
We're we're hitting that as well.
So yeah, a lot of fun things forthe month of animation over on a

(01:19:17):
movie panel. Cool, cool.
What about you, Nicholas at Pop Culture Roulette?
Just our normal nonsense, you know, whatever we feel like
talking about. So.
Hey, let us know what you think or where you think.
Who framed Rod Rabbit should rank on the rewatchability
nostalgia media if you agree with us.
If you don't let us know, you can send us an e-mail at

(01:19:39):
info@eightiesflickflashback.com or you can reach out to us on
social media. Thank you Nicholas, Laramie and
Bethany for joining. Always a pleasure to have you
guys on the podcast and we're glad to have you back again very
soon. If you enjoyed this episode,
please leave us a five star review on Apple Podcast.
Subscribe and follow so you don't miss any episodes.

(01:20:00):
Jump online and visit the website 80slickflashback.com and
our T public store for some awesome 80 Slick Flashback merch
and original designs. I just launched a new collection
of designs, a new collection of of designs inspired by previous
episodes like Caddyshack, UHF, and Weird Science.
Go check those out when you can.Thanks everybody for tuning in.
I'm Tim Williams for the 80 slick flashback podcast.

(01:20:23):
Here's to the pencil pushers. Maybe I'll get LED for you.
Ladies, we will run where every day is just pure fun.
Coonies never say die. They're your minds.
In those films, we lose our minds.

(01:20:59):
John Hughes and all his teen dreams, monsages and simply
themes In fairest hands, the city bends.
Living your life like it never ends.
You're still here. It's over.

(01:21:21):
Go home. Go.

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#135 - "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" (1988) with Nicholas Pepin, Laramy & Bethany Wells

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#135 - "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" (1988) with Nicholas Pepin, Laramy & Bethany Wells