Amadeus

In this episode, Anna and Derek debate what people may know of Salieri's actual legacy, whether this Oscar winner needed to be trimmed up a bit, and much more during their discussion of Milos Forman's Amadeus (1984).

Connect with '80s Movie Montage on Facebook, Bluesky or Instagram! It's the same handle for all three... @80smontagepod.

Anna Keizer and Derek Dehanke are the co-hosts of ‘80s Movie Montage. The idea for the podcast came when they realized just how much they talk – a lot – when watching films from their favorite cinematic era. Their wedding theme was “a light nod to the ‘80s,” so there’s that, too. Both hail from the Midwest but have called Los Angeles home for several years now. Anna is a writer who received her B.A. in Film/Video from Columbia College Chicago and M.A. in Film Studies from Chapman University. Her dark comedy short She Had It Coming was an Official Selection of 25 film festivals with several awards won for it among them. Derek is an attorney who also likes movies. It is a point of pride that most of their podcast episodes are longer than the movies they cover.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Because you choose for your instrument a boastful,

(00:12):
lustful, smutty, infantile boy,and give me for reward only the
ability to recognize theincarnation.
Because you are unjust, unfair,Unkind.
I will block

SPEAKER_01 (00:33):
you.
Hello and welcome to 80s MovieMontage.
This is Derek.

SPEAKER_04 (00:36):
And this is Anna.

SPEAKER_01 (00:37):
And that was F.
Murray Abraham as AntonioSalieri blocking God in 1984's
Amadeus.

SPEAKER_04 (00:44):
That's right.
Yeah.
Couldn't block you from all thesocial what-have-yous of that
century.
I

SPEAKER_01 (00:52):
think the added touch of tossing the crucifix
into the fire as he blockedhim...
There's no

SPEAKER_04 (00:57):
going back

SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
once you burn a crucifix.
I think that's prettydefinitive.
It was extreme.
Although, to be fair, I thinkwhat he meant by blocking him
was, I'm going to kill Amadeus.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11):
Yeah, it's an interesting...
I mean, his whole...
The whole story made up in hishead about what he thought he
was doing for God and what hethought God was doing against
him.
Yeah.
It's kind of funny because hedefinitely has issues with

(01:31):
Amadeus for being so boastfulabout his talent.
Yeah.
But in a manner of speaking,he's exactly the same way.
He's not as vocal about it, buthe too feels he is very high on
himself.

SPEAKER_01 (01:44):
That is pride fucking with him.

SPEAKER_04 (01:45):
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly that.
So, yes, Amadeus.
By the time this goes live, theOscars will have passed, but we
decided to do something...
A little bit more highbrow, youmight want to say.
Maybe.
Yeah.
This was the Best Picturewinner, and in fact, it won

(02:07):
eight total Oscars.

SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
Yeah.
That's honestly...
incredible, particularly when Isaw some of the competition.

SPEAKER_04 (02:15):
Yes, it was.

SPEAKER_01 (02:17):
The killing fields.

SPEAKER_04 (02:18):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (02:19):
I was kind of surprised that this won best
picture over that.

SPEAKER_04 (02:23):
It was a stacked year.
It had 11 total nominations.
Now, some of the wins and nomswill go through because they
connect with the people we covernormally.
But I'm going to quick give ashout out for the other
categories for which it eitherwas nominated or won.
In fact, I think all the othercategories, they were wins.
So as As mentioned, it won BestPicture.
It also won Best Art DirectionSet Decoration.

(02:47):
It won Best Costume Design.

SPEAKER_01 (02:50):
Sure.

SPEAKER_04 (02:51):
Best Sound.

SPEAKER_01 (02:53):
Well, yeah, I think you better get that right.
Yeah, you better get it right.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:58):
And Best Makeup.
So those are categories we don'ttypically cover.
So I wanted to give a shout outthe fact that it won those.

SPEAKER_01 (03:04):
Best Makeup was deserved.
I mean, there were momentswhere...
Old Salieri.

SPEAKER_04 (03:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (03:10):
You could see like...

SPEAKER_04 (03:12):
He looked like Gary Oldman from Bram Stoker's
Dracula.
But I'm not saying thatnecessarily in a bad way.

SPEAKER_01 (03:21):
No, he very much was like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He just was missing the bun.

SPEAKER_04 (03:26):
Yeah, exactly.
He had his own hairstyle goingon.
And then also, I do think thatthey did a really nice job with
showing Mozart's being sicktowards the end.
Yeah.
I thought that that lookedpretty realistic.

SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
Legit looked like that song was killing him.

SPEAKER_04 (03:41):
Yes.
So I think they're all prettywell deserved.
Yeah.
So 1984, written by...
So we have two people credit...
Well, two people listed, oneperson credited.
So the person that we're goingto...
Talk about maybe a little moreprominently because his name is
prominently shown above thetitle card.

(04:02):
Yeah.
I noticed that.
I mean, I've seen this filmbefore, but I never clocked
that.
Very, very unusual for thescreenwriter to say– like for it
to say Peter Schaffer's Amadeus.
But the reason

SPEAKER_01 (04:15):
for

SPEAKER_04 (04:15):
that–

SPEAKER_01 (04:16):
Go for it.
Is that he also wrote the play.
Correct.
Right?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (04:19):
Yeah.
So– and that is what his– kindof go-to uh creative outlet was
he was a playwright but becausehe was such an accomplished
playwright many of his playswere adapted into films so he
did win the best adaptedscreenplay for this movie.
He passed away in 2016.

(04:40):
Unfortunately, this is going tobe another one of those episodes
where a lot of people havepassed that we cover, especially
behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_01 (04:45):
Strangely, or maybe not strangely, the longer we do
this, the more that's going tohappen.

SPEAKER_04 (04:49):
Yeah, yeah.
Thankfully, I think most of thecast are still with us, but a
lot of the people behind thecamera are not.
So he passed in 2016.
Some of his other credits...
There's one that's also very,very...
I would say well-known.
He had the play credit for TheRoyal Hunt of the Sun.

(05:11):
So they're all films, a couplefilms I pulled out.
So that, not familiar with thatwork.
He also had a play slashscreenplay credit for The Public
Eye.
But then Equus is the one that Ithink a lot of people know.
And he got another– Best AdaptedScreenplay nomination.
He didn't win for it, but he gota nomination for his involvement

(05:34):
as, like, based on his play, andhe also wrote the screenplay for
that.
Okay.
What's interesting, I'm not, Idon't know to what extent this
person really had, I mean, hemust have had some involvement
for him to even be mentioned onIMDb.
He is uncredited.
His name is Zdenek Mahler.
He passed in 2018.

(05:55):
So he is on IMDb as anuncredited screenwriter for this
movie.
Some of his other creditsinclude The Unfortunate
Bridegroom, The Seventh Day, TheEighth Night, and The Butcher of
Prague.
So a lot of these people behindthe scenes were– Like, they were

(06:18):
European creatives andtechnicians, and he is one of
them.
He did a lot of different Czechprojects.
So he had a lot of Czechprojects under his belt.
Of course, I'm not reallyfamiliar with Czech
entertainment, but we'll kind ofsee it as a common refrain a
little bit with some of thesepeople.
Okay, moving on to the directornow.

(06:38):
Incredibly well-respected.
Probably the first and only timewe're going to bring him up for
the work that he did in the 80s.
Milos Forman! Okay, I don't knowhim.
Oh, really?
Okay.
No, he was an incredibledirector.
I

SPEAKER_01 (06:54):
should, though.

SPEAKER_04 (06:55):
Once we go through the credits, you're like, oh,
sure.

SPEAKER_01 (06:57):
Yeah, I know.
Now that I'm looking at it, I'mlike, I definitely know who this
is.
Yeah, yeah.
I know

SPEAKER_04 (07:01):
who he is.
So, he won?
Yeah.
Best director for this film.
He also passed in 2018.
And yeah, he was incredible.
I mean, it's interesting becauseit's clear that he seemed to
enjoy doing films that were likebiopics because he has a couple
of those under his belt.
He came on the scene well beforethis film.

(07:23):
So he is– he might be well-knownnow.
for this film, but I would sayif forced, people would probably
associate him more so with hisother Best Director Oscar win,
which was for One Flew Over theCuckoo's Nest.
So he got that.

(07:43):
Some of his other creditsinclude Hair and Ragtime, and
then...
as the decades moved on.
I remember seeing both thesefilms and I thought they were
pretty good.
So he directed The People vs.
Larry Flint.
He got a Best Director Oscarnomination for that film.
And then he also did Man on theMoon about Kaufman.

(08:05):
So starring Jim Carrey.

SPEAKER_01 (08:07):
Yeah, I thought...
I mean, I saw both of those whenthey came out.
I enjoyed them both.
I probably found The People vs.
Larry Flint a little moreinteresting.
But I enjoyed them both.

SPEAKER_04 (08:18):
I think...
He was an incredible– I mean,look, he was an incredible
director.
I think if you get two Oscarsfor your work, I think that–
Pretty good.
I think that shows you're prettygood.
Yeah.
I think that he was a realactor's director because I think
to get the performance he gotout of Holtz, which, look, prior

(08:40):
to this film, probably his mostwell-known– Credit was for
Animal House, so that's kind ofamazing.
Yeah.
And then to get the performancehe got out of Woody Harrelson,
who probably up to that pointwas most well-known for

SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
Cheers.
Yeah, and when I think of someof the other casting
possibilities for thischaracter, for Mozart, Mel
Gibson...
That would have been acompletely different movie.

SPEAKER_04 (09:10):
Yeah.
I mean, I know that all thosethings are listed on IMDb.
I'm always like, well, howserious was it that other people
were considered for the role?

SPEAKER_01 (09:17):
The name that I saw that I thought was interesting
was Tim Curry.

SPEAKER_04 (09:20):
Yeah.
As Mozart, I could see that.
I mean, he definitely has amusical what have you to who he
is as a performer.
To

SPEAKER_01 (09:32):
the extent that Holsey-

SPEAKER_04 (09:35):
Holtz.
Holtz?
Holtz?
H-U-L-C-E.

SPEAKER_01 (09:40):
Yes.
Tom.
Tom.
Tom H.
To the extent that he had thismanic quality about him, that's
what makes me think, well, Currywould have been interesting in
that role.

SPEAKER_04 (09:51):
He, I would think, would be the best runner-up.

SPEAKER_01 (09:55):
Certainly, I see that as a much better fit than
Mel Gibson where it's suddenlylike Braveheart.
I'm going to

SPEAKER_04 (10:00):
be honest.
It's really hard for me to likespeak kindly of Gibson because
of his like whatever antics.

SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
No, no.
I fully understand.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (10:08):
But I don't think he would have been the right fit
anyway.
Yeah.
Truthfully.
No.
But yeah, I think Foreman– gotincredible...
What I distinctly remember aboutThe People vs.
Larry Flint was what anincredible performance he got of
Courtney Love.

SPEAKER_01 (10:21):
Yes, exactly.
He

SPEAKER_04 (10:22):
got a phenomenal performance out of her.
And even Man on the Moon, Imean, was that maybe kind of...
Well, Truman Show was rightaround that time, too.
Jim

SPEAKER_01 (10:33):
Carrey had done stuff.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_04 (10:36):
but got a great performance out of him.
I mean, I'd be so curious tohear about what that
relationship was like because...
I don't know if Kerry kind ofdid the same thing where he just
like, you know, some actors,they just like become that

SPEAKER_01 (10:48):
character.
He doesn't.
I think so.
Yeah.
I think that honestly, I thinkthat's part of what didn't like
sour me on the movie, but I'mlike, OK.
I

SPEAKER_04 (10:57):
think even Foreman's kids were named Andrew and James
because of that film.
Wow.
So that I read that.
So he had an incredible career.
It sounds like.
Maybe he was more selectiveabout the work that he did
because his filmography isn'tvery big.

(11:21):
But what he did was amazing.
And we're really fortunate thathe got to be part of this
industry.
I did read a little bit abouthis history.
He, unfortunately, was orphanedat a very young age because both
his parents died in theHolocaust.
Oh, my God.
So for him to...
have just survived that tragedy,that horrific situation, and

(11:47):
lose his parents at such a youngage.
And to be able to go on to havethis kind of career is all the
more amazing.

SPEAKER_01 (11:52):
Yeah, very much so.
So

SPEAKER_04 (11:54):
I'm not trying to linger on him, but I think that
considering that he is not goingto come up again for us, likely.
And yeah, he was just anincredible director.

SPEAKER_01 (12:06):
Yeah, I don't think there's anything else that we...
Yeah, no.
I mean, maybe ragtime.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 (12:13):
Yeah, yeah, maybe.
Okay, moving on tocinematography.
Miroslav Andrisek is how I'mgoing to say that.

SPEAKER_02 (12:22):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (12:23):
And he was like a little bit of a collaborator
because there's another filmthat he did with Foreman.
He did get Thank you so much.

(12:50):
I think he will come up againfor us because he had a pretty
loaded 80s.
So there are definitely otheroptions.

SPEAKER_01 (12:57):
There's one that I definitely want to.
And then there are a few otherwhere I'm like, yeah, we could.

SPEAKER_04 (13:01):
Sure.
Yeah.
So...
Oh, actually, there were twoother films that he did with
Foreman.

SPEAKER_01 (13:07):
So we...
In a couple of different rolesbetween cinematographer and DP,
right?
Like...

SPEAKER_04 (13:12):
Same job.

SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
Is it really?
Why are they listed differently?
Why would they do this to me?

SPEAKER_04 (13:16):
So, okay.
I...
Well, I won't go down the rabbithole today of like, what if
they, they're nowadays usedinterchangeably.

SPEAKER_01 (13:25):
They are on IMDB as well.

SPEAKER_04 (13:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (13:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I,

SPEAKER_04 (13:29):
it's, I don't know why, why we have two, two names
for the same role.
Maybe at some point they diddefine two different roles,

SPEAKER_01 (13:42):
but nowadays.
Has this not come up in a singleother episode that we've
recorded?
This seems crazy to me that I'mjust now discovering this.

SPEAKER_04 (13:49):
Well, back

SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
then,

SPEAKER_04 (13:52):
yeah.
Yeah.

(14:15):
Slaughterhouse...
Slaughterhouse...
Yeah, Slaughter.

SPEAKER_01 (14:18):
Featuring Cindy Galper.

SPEAKER_04 (14:21):
Slaughterhouse-Five.
So he pairs up with Foreman onHair.
He also pairs up with Foreman onRagtime, for which he got
another Best CinematographyOscar nom.
Nice.
At some point, I think we coulddo The World According to Garp.

SPEAKER_01 (14:38):
We could, yeah.
That's the one where I'm like,that's such an interesting
movie.
I

SPEAKER_04 (14:43):
mean, it has, I believe...
Glenn Close, I think, is in it.

SPEAKER_01 (14:48):
Yep.

SPEAKER_04 (14:48):
I think John Lithgow is in it.
So there's some interestingpeople we could talk about in
there.

SPEAKER_01 (14:54):
There's a lot of interesting stuff.
In some ways, there's stuff thatwould be the opposite of the way
that stuff was addressed inShe's One of the Guys.
Just One of the Guys.
She's One

SPEAKER_02 (15:07):
of the Guys.

SPEAKER_01 (15:10):
It's not an inaccurate title.

UNKNOWN (15:12):
It's not.

SPEAKER_04 (15:13):
You know what you did?
Yeah.
You did a mashup of she's theman and just one of the guys.
That's exactly what I did.
She's one of the guys.

SPEAKER_01 (15:22):
All to say, there's a little bit of that in The
World According to Garp in atotally different way.
Oh,

SPEAKER_04 (15:26):
okay.
I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 (15:27):
I think Lithgow's character in particular.
Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 (15:30):
Okay, cool.
He also, I know you brought thisup.
I think it was just the lastepisode.
Silkwood.

SPEAKER_01 (15:35):
Feel good.
Comedy feel

SPEAKER_04 (15:37):
good.
You were like, I don't ever wantto do that.

SPEAKER_01 (15:39):
Family favorite, Silkwood.

SPEAKER_04 (15:40):
We'll see.
Well, he shot it.
Heaven help us.
Is Funny Farm the one thatyou...
No,

SPEAKER_01 (15:46):
I still want to do FX.

SPEAKER_04 (15:48):
Oh, I didn't even put that one down.
I'm sorry.
But okay, well, fair.
So yes, you did Funny Farm.
And now moving into the 90s,Awakenings.
He shot A League of Their Own.
Amazing.
We love that movie, except forthe end.
Yeah.
The

SPEAKER_01 (16:04):
end.
The end bothers you more than itbothers me.

SPEAKER_04 (16:07):
Fair.

SPEAKER_01 (16:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (16:08):
He did The Preacher's Wife and Riding in
Cars with Boys.
Okay, so here we go.
This would normally be themoment where we would bring up
the composer on this film.
So it's kind of amazingbecause...
You mean Mozart?
Yeah, I mean, look, once I wasgoing through the credits and

(16:29):
noticed that there was nocomposer, I was like, oh, well,
duh.
Because the entirety of themusic was either composed by
Mozart or...
Or Salieri.

SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
Yes.
Or, interestingly...
Just noting, Salieri had alittle bit of a renaissance
after this came out.
His music became much morepopular, or at least somewhat
so.

SPEAKER_04 (16:49):
Yeah, I mean, good for him, especially because what
a bad rap this guy gets, becauseit's kind of just a totally
made-up story.

SPEAKER_01 (16:57):
Aside from just having a bit of a rivalry...
From what I understand, did notever get to the extent of what
was portrayed in the movie.

SPEAKER_04 (17:06):
No, I mean, I even...
Maybe

SPEAKER_01 (17:09):
he blocked God, though.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 (17:11):
Yeah, I mean, it...
Maybe he blocked God.
It's...
The whole film takes a majorliberty in terms of structuring
the lives of these twoindividuals in terms of some
rivalry that they had with eachother.
When that was like...
Almost certainly not the case.

SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
Well, Schaefer's play is based off of the work of
a Russian writer who...
kind of created this fictionbetween the two.
Which is

SPEAKER_04 (17:43):
kind of unfair.
I don't know what the guy hadagainst Salieri, but...
I

SPEAKER_01 (17:47):
don't know.
It's just good old-fashionedRussian slander.

SPEAKER_04 (17:50):
Because people who don't maybe know any better, I
don't know if they'll take thatat face value.
And that's kind of a tough thingto attach to somebody's legacy.

SPEAKER_01 (17:59):
What a world we would live in if that happened.

SPEAKER_04 (18:01):
So in any case, also, there's another music
credit to Franz Xavier WolfgangMozart.
And so Look, I get it.
It's whatever.
Another liberty that's takenwith the film is that they only
show that Mozart and his wifehad one child.
That wasn't the case.
The person credited is anotherone of Mozart's children.

SPEAKER_01 (18:24):
Was his nickname Wolfie?
Because I want to believe.

SPEAKER_04 (18:26):
Wolfie and Stanzi.

SPEAKER_01 (18:29):
Yeah.
So

SPEAKER_04 (18:30):
cute little nicknames.
But to get back to the composer.
So while...
The composers are those amazingindividuals who we see
characters of them on screen.
The person I'm going to call outfor this particular film is John
Strauss.
So he was credited as the musiccoordinator.

SPEAKER_01 (18:50):
Okay.
Yeah.
There's like a whole musicdepartment.

SPEAKER_04 (18:53):
For sure.

SPEAKER_01 (18:53):
Yeah.
Yeah.
My favorite credit in the musicdepartment, there's an
uncredited credit for a Mr.
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart.

SPEAKER_04 (19:01):
That's funny.

SPEAKER_01 (19:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (19:03):
Why would you not just credit him?
That's really weird.
Strauss also passed away in2016.
And I think that the reason whyI'm going with him as far as who
I'm going to call out is becausehe also got a Grammy for his

(19:23):
work on the soundtrack for thisfilm.
So I feel like there's a Thatworks.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

(19:54):
And then he, too, worked onSlaughterhouse-Five.
He worked with Foreman on Hair.
He also worked with him onRagtime.
And he worked on The BluesBrothers.
Really?
He did.
Nice.
So go check that one out.
We did that ages ago.
I don't even know.
Season two, probably, is myguess.
We did that back then.

(20:15):
Ishtar.
Oh.
Infamously.

SPEAKER_01 (20:17):
What is that?
Oh, I don't think I realized wecould do that.
Ishtar, 1987.

SPEAKER_04 (20:23):
We could do Ishtar.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (20:25):
Do we want to kill the

SPEAKER_04 (20:26):
podcast?
And Newsies.
So

SPEAKER_01 (20:30):
there we go.
I know those are all film, buthe also had a credit for Cop
Rock.
Just wanted to make sure wedidn't forget about Cop Rock.

SPEAKER_04 (20:38):
Like it.
Okay.
Moving on to film editing.
So there's kind of aninteresting little thing here.
So first of all, two people,they got nominations for Not too
slander.
Oh?
This movie comes in at likeabout two hours and 40 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 (20:55):
Ooh, and it could have been longer.

SPEAKER_04 (20:56):
Sure.
It also could have been shorter.
I

SPEAKER_01 (21:03):
wish it had been, but yes, it could

SPEAKER_04 (21:05):
have been.
I think they could have shaved40 minutes off this puppy.
Although...

SPEAKER_01 (21:12):
Although like getting what felt like just an
hour of– hours worth of footageof Abraham just like in ecstasy
of music, if you had taken acouple of those out maybe, now
we get it down to like two.

SPEAKER_04 (21:27):
So from what I can sense, the reason why the film
is length is– These are mywords.
The reason the film is thelength that it is is because
they do show extensive sequencesof the musical pieces.

SPEAKER_01 (21:45):
They sure do.

SPEAKER_04 (21:46):
And whether it's Salieri or Mozart conducting.
And I understand the reverenceand the respect that I presume
the people involved in this filmwanted to show in terms of
showing the full pieces.
No,

SPEAKER_01 (22:00):
they probably had to.
I

SPEAKER_04 (22:02):
think that's maybe where it comes from.
Yeah.
But it's a lot.

SPEAKER_01 (22:07):
Well, that's why Wicked is going to be two
movies, right?
Exactly.
Because they couldn't get it allin one film.

SPEAKER_04 (22:13):
Yeah.
So it's like I get it, but as afilmgoer.
They

SPEAKER_01 (22:17):
were never going to have an Amadeus Part One

SPEAKER_04 (22:20):
in 1984.
No, but like having sequencesthat long for me does not move
the story along.

SPEAKER_01 (22:27):
No, no.
And like a lot of those werekind of like what I just.
It's a lot of like us watchingit happen.
And then you see Salieri'sreaction to it.

SPEAKER_04 (22:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (22:38):
And his reaction was pretty much the same every week.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (22:41):
It's kind of like I mean, look, that's why I don't
get we'll get to himmomentarily.
But that's why Abraham won theOscar, because he did a
phenomenal job of kind ofindicating just on facial
expression alone.
I mean, one small part of why hewon.
But like in those moments.
Yeah.
This like mixture of.
All for what Mozart can do andalso kind of like jealousy, self

(23:07):
loathing, like

SPEAKER_01 (23:09):
it was an incredible performance.
Yeah.
It was really early and I'mlike, oh yeah, now I can see why
he won because that was amazing.

SPEAKER_04 (23:28):
He read for a smaller part, but Foreman really
kind of took to how he read.
And then eventually that turnedinto him taking a much bigger
role.

SPEAKER_01 (23:40):
And then he learned how to compose and read music
for the role.

SPEAKER_04 (23:43):
Pulse also did a similar kind of...

SPEAKER_01 (23:46):
He learned how to play the piano well enough to
get by it.
I guess a lot of musicalprofessors have watched the
movie and it tracks.
So like what you're seeing...
He

SPEAKER_04 (23:56):
did the backwards piano playing.
He did that.

SPEAKER_01 (23:58):
What you're seeing in terms of like, you know,
notes being played matches whatyou're actually hearing, which
isn't always...
Sometimes it's just likenonsense, but you're hearing
something else.

SPEAKER_04 (24:07):
I mean, and the thing is, is that Foreman didn't
necessarily make him do that.
He didn't make him...
learn the piano to the extentthat he did.
He thought, well, we'll cheatit.

SPEAKER_01 (24:17):
He spent six hours a day for about six months, I
think, to learn it, which, hey,not everyone can do that.
But if you're

SPEAKER_04 (24:25):
Well, that's part of being an actor.
I mean, like that– I don'tbegrudge them that they have the
ability to take six months

SPEAKER_01 (24:33):
to– No, no.
I don't think he has– it's notas much– like he has the ability
to learn it because some peopleyou could give them eight hours
a day.
Oh, I couldn't do

SPEAKER_04 (24:39):
that.
I am not a musical person.

SPEAKER_01 (24:41):
I could give you my whole life and I would never be
able to pick it up.
No

SPEAKER_04 (24:43):
way could I do that.

SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
But he didn't really have the obligation to.
He could have gotten by.
No, exactly.
Which is why I

SPEAKER_04 (24:48):
really respect the commitment to that.

UNKNOWN (24:51):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (24:52):
It's interesting if we start really going– pulling
at those threads because thereare ways that people do that for
different roles in terms ofwhether it's learning music or
learning like some kind of likecombat sport like for like
Wonder Woman and all that theyhad to learn for like when they
were showing– They're notAmazons, right?

(25:17):
Yeah.
They are?
Amazonians?
Okay, they are.
Yeah.
Okay, like showing all thosesequences of the women in like
combat and fighting.
Yeah.
So there are ways that actors dothat, but then there are things
like, you know, Christian Balelosing and gaining a crazy
amount of weight for variousroles where it's like...

SPEAKER_01 (25:33):
My favorite is Liam Neeson climbing a fence in Taken
3.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (25:38):
Okay, so coming back to the editors.
So first, I'm going to bring upthe two that were nominated.
First is Michael Chandler.
And the two that were nominated,they were not an editing duo.
They were not a partnership.
They just both happened to workon the film.

SPEAKER_01 (25:54):
One of them was always jealous of the other one
because of their...

SPEAKER_04 (25:59):
That's pretty funny.
So this is hilarious.
I mean, he might come up again,Chandler, because there are a
couple of films.
Although I've brought this up.
I probably haven't talked aboutit in a minute.
But he was the editor on NeverCry Wolf.
I told you, like, my...
So my dad, I would never saythat he was, like, a film

(26:20):
person.
But I have all these, like,crazy memories of watching
different movies with him.
I don't know why he thought...
I think it was like five when Isaw Never Cry Wolf.
I remember thinking this is themost boring...
I don't know why he thought Iwould want to watch that.

SPEAKER_01 (26:36):
It's like, hey, do you want to go to the theater to
watch Nat Geo for three hours?
It

SPEAKER_04 (26:40):
was just like...
It's just hilarious to me thathe's like, yeah, I'm going to
show my five-year-old daughterthis film.
Educational.
Educational.
So he also cut Howard the Duck.

SPEAKER_01 (26:52):
Yeah, I think...
I think...
It would be fun to cover that,particularly with Howard's
inclusion in the MCU.

SPEAKER_04 (27:00):
Sure.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (27:02):
In Guardians of the Galaxy.
I'm not against it.
It is like a really just insane,like it makes Strange Brew look
really normal.

SPEAKER_04 (27:14):
Yosemite.
So this sounds like a doc,maybe?
Yosemite, The Fate of Heaven.
Hmm.
Which, side note, supportnational parks while we still
have them.
Yeah.
He also– this is so interestingto me.
He cut Empire Records.
Like, total– I don't know if Icould say it's a cult movie
because I think enough peoplelove it.
But it is such a defining filmof the 90s, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 (27:38):
Yeah,

SPEAKER_04 (27:38):
yeah.
And all the people in it.
And then lastly, Stripped forParts, colon, American
journalism on the brink.
Oh.
Also– PSA support independentjournalism.
Thank you.
Okay.
So moving on to the other personnominated, Nina Denevic is the

(27:59):
way I'm going to say her lastname.

SPEAKER_02 (28:00):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (28:01):
So not an extensive career.
However, I think like Bothassociated with Foreman.
I didn't bring up this filmbecause it's...
I don't know how popular Valmontwas.
I think that was a Foreman film,though.
So she worked on that.
And then she was also anassociate editor on Ragtime.

SPEAKER_01 (28:18):
Just the...
And

SPEAKER_04 (28:19):
that's kind of it.

SPEAKER_01 (28:20):
I'm looking at the synopsis for Valmont.

SPEAKER_04 (28:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (28:24):
France before 1789.
When a widow hears that herlover is to marry her cousin's
daughter, she asks the playboyValmont to take the girl's
virginity.
But first, she bets him with herbody as prize to seduce a
virtuous young married woman.

SPEAKER_04 (28:38):
Oh, it's Dangerous Liaisons, right?

SPEAKER_01 (28:40):
Is it?

SPEAKER_04 (28:41):
Yeah, it's a story.
And then, like, what was the onethat had Michelle Gellar?
Cruel Tensions, yeah.
So that's that story.
Okay, all right, fair.
There you go.
So those two...
Thank you so much.

(29:15):
The Empire Strikes Back.

SPEAKER_01 (29:17):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (29:18):
And Return of the Jedi.
Interesting.
He's that guy.
That

SPEAKER_01 (29:21):
guy.
That does those things.

SPEAKER_04 (29:22):
That guy.
He also worked on the TV seriesThe Adventures of Young Indiana
Jones, a film called Friends andLovers, and then more recently,
sounds like a kid's show, Go GoCorey Carson.
It sounds

SPEAKER_01 (29:37):
like it.

SPEAKER_04 (29:37):
So, okay.
We're finally at the stars ofthe film.
Starting with...

SPEAKER_01 (29:43):
Who we've mostly been talking about the whole

SPEAKER_04 (29:44):
time.
Yeah.
But, you know, what are we goingto do?
F.
Murray Abraham.
So, he is Antonio Salieri.
And even though it's calledAmadeus, it is Salieri's story,

SPEAKER_01 (30:00):
kind of.
Absolutely.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (30:02):
So...
So I do think that it is– andeven I clocked it when we were
like, you know, watching thefilm for the podcast.
He is credited first.
It– in a way, it makes me feelbad.
They both were up for bestactor.
And it bums me out that Holtz,sorry, I keep saying it with
like a T-ish sound, but that hedidn't win because he also put

(30:26):
in an incredible performance.

SPEAKER_01 (30:28):
They were like co-leads, right?
Yeah.
Like neither one of them wouldhave been a supporting actor,
really, right?
Well,

SPEAKER_04 (30:34):
I was thinking about that.

SPEAKER_01 (30:35):
Can't have Mozart be best supporting actor in a movie
about Mozart.

SPEAKER_04 (30:39):
Sure.
I mean, he gets...
Less screen time, I think, but Idon't know the finer details of
like how you define lead versussupporting actor.

SPEAKER_05 (30:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (30:50):
So, however, now my apologies to whoever won best
supporting that year, but Ithink he would have been a slam
dunk if he had been put in thatcategory.
I

SPEAKER_01 (30:59):
think so.
I think the only thing thatwould have prevented it from
happening would have beenpushback on whether he should
have been nominated for therole.
But if it was just like...
But you're going to always– it'slike when Thelma and Louise.

SPEAKER_04 (31:10):
Yeah.
You know, like they both were upfor– like it's–

SPEAKER_01 (31:13):
They were both up for the lead and then Brad Pitt
wins.
It was crazy.
It makes me feel

SPEAKER_04 (31:16):
so bad when two people who put an incredible
performance on a single projectare like pitted against each
other.
I don't want either one of themto not get the acclaim that they
deserve in terms of getting likea lead nomination, but it

SPEAKER_01 (31:31):
just– I wonder how much they– like I'm sure they
care, but I wonder how much– itlike stays with them.

SPEAKER_02 (31:39):
Oh, I think

SPEAKER_01 (31:39):
it stays with them.
For something like that, evenlike you think so?
There's a little bit of ironygiven the context of the movie.
Totally.
For him to win.

SPEAKER_04 (31:48):
Totally.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, 100%.
Like

SPEAKER_01 (31:52):
Salieri got him in the end.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_04 (31:54):
exactly.
I just, I don't know.
It just makes me feel bad.
Maybe I care more than they do.
I have no idea, but okay.
So still very much working.
Amazing.
So he has done a ton of TV work,and especially a little bit
later on in his career, therewere a couple series that he was
on for a while.

(32:15):
I mean, a lot of the TV work waslike one, two offs, that sort of
thing.
I have mostly films for him.
So we brought this up before.
There is a film that's calledThey Might Be Giants.

SPEAKER_01 (32:26):
Oh, the band?
So he was in that.
Fuck, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 (32:28):
Every time.
Every time.
So we're going to just fly rightpast that.
So...
I think that when I brought upthe fact that Foreman suddenly
was interested in him for abigger role, which ended up
being Salieri, he knew that atthat time he was filming
Scarface.
And so I think he– from what Iread, Foreman kind of dragged

(32:50):
his feet a little bit ondeciding who he wanted because
he wanted to make sure therewasn't a scheduling conflict for
Abraham.
So all to say– Abraham's also inScarface.
The Name of the Rose.
Who is he in Last Action Hero?

SPEAKER_01 (33:05):
I'd have to watch it again.
Okay.
I can't recall.

SPEAKER_04 (33:11):
So Last Action Hero, Mighty Aphrodite, Mimic, Muppets
from Space.

SPEAKER_02 (33:16):
Oh,

SPEAKER_04 (33:16):
nice.
So the guy's got range.
Finding Forrester.
I'm going to have to, it's not agood movie, but I'm going to
have to rewatch 13 Ghosts.

SPEAKER_01 (33:24):
It's not, but that was like one of the movies that
I think of him being in.
Oh, you do?
Yeah.
Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 (33:30):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (33:31):
I don't know who his character is, but that's fine
because I don't know who any ofthem are, really.

SPEAKER_04 (33:35):
It's just a stupid horror film.
Yeah.

UNKNOWN (33:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (33:39):
But it's like turning it a little bit into a
comfort horror film.
I don't know.
It's just on a lot.
It is on a lot.
Yes.
He was inside Llewyn Davis, theGrand Budapest Hotel.
And then, again, he's come backto some TV work.
Homeland was one of his shows,as well as Mythic Quest.

(34:02):
Okay.
Okay.
Now, moving on to Tom Hulse.
He, like I mentioned...
got a Best Actor nomination.
He plays Wolfgang AmadeusMozart.
Wolfie.
Wolfie.
And still working, I think, thelast couple years.
I don't know if I would say he'sretired.
It's just I noticed that thefilmography is a little bit more

(34:25):
sparse in present day.
But yes, up to this point, his,I would say, defining role
was...
in National Lampoon's AnimalHouse.
I think it's kind of insane inthe best way.
He doesn't go directly fromAnimal House to Amadeus.

SPEAKER_01 (34:45):
Yeah, he's got a few episodes of St.
Elsewhere.
Sure.
A couple other movies.
Well, one other movie.

SPEAKER_04 (34:50):
Yeah, so he did do other stuff, but I just think
that's awesome.
I think that's one of the bestthings about entertainment is
just the fluctuations betweendifferent projects and what
people are a part of.
I mean,

SPEAKER_01 (35:03):
it makes sense.
I identify this guy as, asMozart now, which is kind of
ridiculous.

SPEAKER_04 (35:10):
Yeah.
He, like I said, he puts in anincredible performance and.
But

SPEAKER_01 (35:17):
I also think of him as kind of like the piece of
shit in parenthood.
The Steve Martin movie.
I

SPEAKER_04 (35:22):
don't know that movie as well.
I do with...
So he might come up againbecause I would like to do that
film.

SPEAKER_01 (35:27):
He's like a degenerate gambler that like
leaves...
He's

SPEAKER_04 (35:29):
Steve Martin's brother, right?

SPEAKER_01 (35:31):
I think so.
Yeah, because it's like

SPEAKER_04 (35:33):
the adult kids of that family.
So he is in that.
Thank you.
Because that was my next creditfor him.
Sorry.
No, totally okay.
He was in Fearless,Frankenstein.
I think that might have beenthe...
What's his name?

UNKNOWN (35:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (35:48):
The guy who does all the Shakespeare stuff, who is
married to Emma Thompson,Kenneth Branagh.
That's it.
Yeah.
So he's in that version.
I

SPEAKER_01 (35:58):
was looking at it on the page and I'm like, you're so
close.
You're going to get it.
I know it.

SPEAKER_04 (36:03):
So he was in that version of Frankenstein.
Notably, he is the voice of themain character in The Hunchback
of Notre Dame.
Quasimodo.
Yeah.
So he's in that.
Stranger Than Fiction andJumper.
So I...
I put down all films for him.
But yeah, I just want to take asecond because he did so great

(36:24):
in this role.
Like I'm kind of bummed that itdidn't provide more momentum for
him to have other roles thatkind of show the degree to which
he is like a really talenteddramatic actor.

SPEAKER_02 (36:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (36:42):
He does a great job, I think, of being exactly the
person that that Salieri kind ofdespises.
Like he, he is this likebrilliant, brilliant creative,
but he also, you know, he's verybrash.
He's very bold.

(37:02):
He doesn't really have a filter.
I mean, he's

SPEAKER_01 (37:05):
not necessarily, I don't know.
It sounds crazy to say that.
I don't know if I would considerhim to be arrogant or Is it

SPEAKER_04 (37:14):
arrogant when you can back it up?

SPEAKER_01 (37:15):
That's the thing.
He just knows.
The fact that he has the entirecomposition in his head, I just
got to get it out on paper, wascrazy.
But as far as, are we sayingHulse-y?
Hulse.
Hulse.
Hulse.
Him as an actor, one of thethings that I appreciated was
towards the end, when he'sdictating to Salieri...

(37:40):
He made the decisionintentionally to skip lines as
he was doing it to make Abrahamthink that he couldn't keep up.

SPEAKER_04 (37:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (37:48):
To make that whole part really work.

SPEAKER_04 (37:51):
My guess is he probably conferred with Foreman
on that.
I don't think he would have justcompletely on his own done that.

SPEAKER_01 (37:57):
I'll just say Abraham was like...

SPEAKER_04 (37:59):
I also think it's like, okay, the guy ended up
winning Best Actor.
Do you have to...
do those little tricks.
Yes.
Like...

SPEAKER_01 (38:05):
You do.
How

SPEAKER_04 (38:06):
about just act?
Like...

SPEAKER_01 (38:09):
Is that...
Who is that?
The Laurence Olivier School ofActing?

SPEAKER_04 (38:12):
And Dustin Hoffman.
Yes.
Where Hoffman was like up forthree days or something.
It's like, or you could justact.
So it's that kind of thing,which...
Very funny that you bring thatup because it was Olivier who
presented the Best Picturewinner.

SPEAKER_01 (38:26):
The way that he presented it, though.

SPEAKER_04 (38:27):
Yeah, I wish the Oscar...
Okay, so we're recording thisbefore the Oscars.
So we

SPEAKER_01 (38:32):
don't know what...
So we don't know

SPEAKER_04 (38:33):
who's going to get pulled out, but I am...
Something's going to happen.
I am so tired.
Like, look, I want there tobe...
of older actors who have givenso much to this industry.
But I think there has to be somereal serious talk about how
prudent it is to bring them onstage.

SPEAKER_01 (38:52):
To a live event.

SPEAKER_04 (38:53):
To a live event where maybe they're not the
right choice for that.
And we have seen that play outseveral times now.

SPEAKER_01 (38:59):
Because Olivier just took the stage...
Amadeus! Yes! Like, didn'tannounce any of the other...

SPEAKER_04 (39:06):
Like, they had to, like, confirm that that was
correct.
And then, you know, verygraciously, the producer who
accepted the award called outall the other nominees.

SPEAKER_01 (39:17):
Yeah, he named out all the others.
That's how I saw, like, thereference to the other movies,
including The Killing Fields.
I'm like, wow.

SPEAKER_04 (39:24):
It's just a bad situation for everybody.
It's...
It's a bummer for all the peoplewho didn't win, because at least
you want to have your moment ofbeing acknowledged for being a
nominee.
And then also, we're talkingabout Laurence Olivier.
Why

SPEAKER_01 (39:40):
are you going to do them like that?
Yes.
You're setting them up.

SPEAKER_04 (39:42):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (39:44):
They're setting these people up to have these
moments where it's like, youdon't have to do it

SPEAKER_04 (39:49):
like this.
No, I'm so tired.
Probably the closest that we gotto there being...
Like, it could have been realbad, but it was saved as...
Who was it?
It was, like, Lady Gaga and LizaMinnelli, I think.
Oh.
Where she brought her out andthey had, like, a little
conversation.

SPEAKER_01 (40:07):
Lady Gaga.

SPEAKER_04 (40:08):
She handled that with so much compassion

SPEAKER_01 (40:10):
and grace.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (40:12):
And maybe that's what you do instead of just
having them be on their own

SPEAKER_01 (40:16):
and going up there.
As backup or to be with them.
But

SPEAKER_04 (40:19):
even somebody as backup, like...
I give so much respect to LadyGaga for handling that in the
way that she did.

SPEAKER_01 (40:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (40:27):
Because even somebody else who's younger
wouldn't maybe have thewherewithal to be able to roll
with that.

SPEAKER_01 (40:33):
To do it in a way that's compassionate, that
preserves the dignity of theperson that they're with on
stage.

SPEAKER_04 (40:39):
Anyway, so.
So

SPEAKER_01 (40:41):
as much as we love

SPEAKER_04 (40:42):
movies,

SPEAKER_01 (40:44):
I don't miss, like if I don't see the Oscars, I
don't miss it.
It's okay.

SPEAKER_04 (40:50):
Sure.
I mean, they repeat it, so wemight watch the repeat because
it comes on– I think they'veeven pushed it up an hour.
So it's going to start at like 4o'clock on

SPEAKER_01 (41:00):
Sunday.
To be fair, if I've missed it,it's intentional, and their
repeat performance is not what Ineed to see it.

SPEAKER_04 (41:06):
Okay.
Well, that's you.
That's you.
So, all right.
Moving on to– is it Constanza?
Constanz?
I think so, yeah.
Mozart, played by ElizabethBarrage.
Yeah.
It does sound like somebody elsewas set to play this role.
She had to bow out.
Barrage came in.

(41:26):
I think she does a great job.
You're absolutely right that,like, you know, I think people
probably already know thatForeman made a point of telling
his actors, don't worry aboutaccents.

SPEAKER_01 (41:38):
Yes, he did, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (41:39):
We don't– just focus on your performance.
And she maybe has the most,like, American kind of– Lack of
what have you.
Whatever

SPEAKER_01 (41:51):
her natural accent is, that's what you get.

SPEAKER_04 (41:53):
That's what you get.
But I think she does a reallygood job.
I think that what thatcharacter.
I

SPEAKER_01 (42:03):
love that character.
That character was awesome.

SPEAKER_04 (42:05):
Yeah.
I mean, she really loved herhusband and had to.
Yeah.
She

SPEAKER_01 (42:13):
became

SPEAKER_04 (42:13):
his manager of a sort.
Yeah.
where maybe this was for thepurposes of, you know,
entertainment in the movie, thatshe leaves him temporarily.

(42:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (42:37):
To go to the spa.

SPEAKER_04 (42:38):
To go to the spa.
But then it turns out thatthat's not really the case,
because, like, they cut to herat a dance, obviously with
another man.

SPEAKER_01 (42:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (42:45):
But she recognizes that it's, like, not cool, and
she goes to him.
I

SPEAKER_01 (42:49):
mean, seeing how Mozart was, I'm not going to get
too...
I'm not going to feel much of away about her taking a break
and...

SPEAKER_04 (42:55):
Yes.
No, totally.
Totally.
So...
She does a great job.
She's been working.
I have more TV than film forher, but she's been in a couple
of series.
So I don't know this, but shewas on a TV series called Texas.
So a film called Five Corners,more TV work, The Powers That
Be, The John Larroquette Show.

(43:16):
Okay.
And a film called Results.

SPEAKER_01 (43:19):
And she was Annie Oakley in a film starring Viggo
Mortensen called Hidalgo.

SPEAKER_04 (43:25):
Oh, cool.
Okay.
Very cool.
Okay, moving on to Roy Doltris.
So he plays Leopold Mozart.
Oh, his dad?
Wolfie's dad.
Yeah.
He too has passed.
He passed in 2017.
He had an incredible career.

(43:45):
Very busy.
I have a pretty fair breakoutbetween film and television.
So, so much TV.

UNKNOWN (43:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (43:56):
But I usually call it the ones where there's like
some kind of more recurringrole.
He, I love this.
Early in his career, he was in afilm called Lock Up Your
Daughters! Exclamation point.
Another film, Nicholas andAlexandra.
So there was a TV miniseries hewas in, Shaka Zulu.
He also for a while was on thatTV show, Beauty and the Beast.

SPEAKER_01 (44:16):
Oh, the one with, oh my goodness.
Ron Perlman.
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (44:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (44:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (44:20):
And Linda Hamilton.

SPEAKER_01 (44:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (44:21):
Yep.
That's the one.
He was, okay, so here's what'sfunny.
He was in the film The CuttingEdge.

SPEAKER_01 (44:28):
The hockey player that turned into an ice skater
instead of a– wait.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, you're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_04 (44:34):
And when we were watching Amadeus, I was like– so
for those who– I hope you'refamiliar with the film or at
least maybe generally thehistory of Mozart.
But if you're not, the story istold through an elder Salieri
who has already at one timetried to– And his life.

(44:56):
He is put into a sanitarium,essentially.
Rough place.
Rough place.
And a priest comes in to hearhis confession because he has
proclaimed that he killedMozart.
So priest comes in to try totalk to him.
And so the whole of the film isessentially a flashback where
Salieri is talking about hisexperience while Mozart was

(45:18):
alive.

SPEAKER_01 (45:19):
Longer flashbacks than Bloodsport.

SPEAKER_04 (45:22):
And what's so funny, sorry for this long aside, but
the priest looks so much likeD.B.
Sweeney from The Cutting

SPEAKER_01 (45:31):
Edge.
Oh, my God.
It all connects now.
No.
That's a, yeah, that's amazing.
So, in any case.
That priest probably didn'tthink, like, priest probably,
can I get a meal?
He's like, I need to

SPEAKER_02 (45:40):
go to the

SPEAKER_01 (45:40):
bathroom.
Because you see in thebackground, like, he starts and
there's like some daylight, thenit's dark, and then it's the
next morning.
Which all

SPEAKER_04 (45:47):
shot with natural light.

SPEAKER_01 (45:48):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (45:49):
Yeah.
Nice.
Which is incredibly rare.
Anyway, so besides The CuttingEdge, he was also on the TV show
Going to Extremes.
He was in the film Swimming withSharks, as well as The Scarlet
Letter.
I believe with Demi Moore.
I think she is Hester Prynne.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Okay.
He was on the TV show PicketFences.

(46:09):
This is interesting to me.
So prior to the movie, there wasa 1986 TV series called Mr.
and Mrs.
Smith.

SPEAKER_01 (46:17):
Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 (46:19):
Yeah.
He was also on the TV showMadigan Men, Life Begins, and he
had a two-episode stint on Gameof Thrones.

SPEAKER_01 (46:30):
I did not know that.

SPEAKER_04 (46:31):
I don't know the character even by name.
I mean, well, the character'sname is Holland, but I don't
know who that would be.
But if you look at pictures, itlooks like maybe he was like a
priest type figure.
Because he has like the cap

SPEAKER_01 (46:44):
and the chain.
From the sept or something.
Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_04 (46:47):
Yep.
Okay.
So moving on.
So here's...
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (46:52):
What?

SPEAKER_04 (46:53):
If I had a problem with this film, it's that
they're extremely consistentwith...
Mm-hmm.

(47:25):
That kind of goes away, but theystill need money.
They still need to live.
So he, I guess at some point,becomes friends with this guy
who it's not really madeexplicitly clear, but it seems
like he is both a performer andthe owner of like a vaudeville

SPEAKER_01 (47:40):
theater.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_04 (47:44):
But to me, it kind of comes into the story
haphazardly.
It

SPEAKER_01 (47:49):
felt like it was just– To show that now he's
working for what is kind of likea lesser position just for the
money, just to like keep thingsmoving along while Abraham
continues with his plot to quoteunquote kill him.

SPEAKER_04 (48:05):
Yeah, I think that like, look, if they're like,
This movie is going to be twohour and 40 minutes no matter
what.
I think he could have shaved offsome, like I said, of the
performances and maybe smoothedout a little bit, even these
like minor character arcs.

SPEAKER_01 (48:19):
I mean, maybe if they had done that, it would
have won some awards orsomething if they had done

SPEAKER_04 (48:24):
some of this.
I know.
I'm nitpicking a film that woneight Oscars.
I know.
I sound absolutely insane.
Why not nine?
But he just kind of comes out ofnowhere is my point.
Yeah.
So, however, played by– so youmentioned his first name,
Emmanuel– And the last name,Shit King.

SPEAKER_05 (48:43):
I

SPEAKER_04 (48:44):
don't know.

SPEAKER_01 (48:45):
Yes, he was Emmanuel Shit King.

SPEAKER_04 (48:47):
Say it.
I don't know how you say thecharacter's last name.
Chicken Eater.
Yeah, thank you.
I guess it's better than me, Iguess.

SPEAKER_01 (48:59):
We got it out once.

SPEAKER_04 (49:00):
Played by Simon Callow.
Yeah.
And who's had an incrediblecareer, still very much working
to this day.
And, I mean, it's an interestingcharacter because it seems like,
yes, there's a friendship there.
I think he cares for Mozartbecause when Mozart passes out
during one of the performances,he does come to the home later

(49:21):
to see how he's doing.
But he also very much is like,you could be a moneymaker for
me.

SPEAKER_01 (49:29):
Yeah, he's like...
More like fiscally aware.
He's a

SPEAKER_04 (49:35):
businessman.

SPEAKER_01 (49:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (49:37):
So there's an interesting kind of back and
forth with that relationship.
As far as Callow's othercredits, mostly film I have for
him.
He was in the film The GoodFather, A Room with a View, TV
series called Chance in aMillion.
I think that might be British.
Yeah.
We could do Maurice.
That also has Hugh Grant in it.

(49:59):
Postcards from the Edge.
Oh, another Hugh Grant.
Four Weddings and a Funeral.
Okay.
Jefferson in Paris.
Shakespeare in Love.
A

SPEAKER_01 (50:06):
lot of period pieces.
That won an Academy Award,right?

SPEAKER_04 (50:09):
It sure did.
It won Best Picture.

SPEAKER_01 (50:12):
But there probably weren't like other...
Oh

SPEAKER_04 (50:15):
my gosh, don't even get me started about all the
other films that were nominatedthat year.

SPEAKER_01 (50:19):
I'm sure it deserved it.

SPEAKER_04 (50:20):
The Phantom of the Opera, the TV show Outlander,
and more recently the filmVictoria and Abdul.
And he's just, he's also done aton of TV work.
He's very busy.
Okay, moving on to...
Another person who is veryprominent at the beginning.
And this is also, like I wassaying, she's very prominent in

(50:42):
the beginning of the film.
And you very, because he says asmuch, get a sense that Salieri,
he is in love with this woman.
And then she kind of just goesaway.
I don't know if it's because...
He

SPEAKER_01 (50:52):
said that he was in love with her and then, like,
suspects that Mozart has...
Which,

SPEAKER_04 (50:58):
again, wasn't true.

SPEAKER_01 (50:59):
It was, in fact, the opposite.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (51:01):
Yeah.
So it's...
Whatever.
The character name, KatarinaCavallari.

SPEAKER_01 (51:11):
Christina Cavallari?

SPEAKER_04 (51:13):
What?
Katarina.
Katarina.
But the character is played byChristine

SPEAKER_02 (51:20):
Ebersole.
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (51:22):
And she has also been super duper busy over the
course of her career.
So she actually started onSaturday Night Live.
Isn't that fun?

UNKNOWN (51:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (51:29):
She reminds me, like her face reminded me of like the
mom from the Brady Bunch alittle bit.

SPEAKER_04 (51:35):
Yeah, a little bit.
Yeah.
She was in Tootsie, although Idon't know if her role, we
probably didn't mention her whenwe covered that film.
Go check that one out withDeanna.
She was on the TV show Valeriebefore it became The Hogan
Family.

SPEAKER_01 (51:49):
Oh, okay.
Yeah, so she did that.
Wow, deep cuts.

SPEAKER_04 (51:55):
The Cavanaughs, she was in the film Dead Again.
Which I believe is both KennethBranagh and Emma Thompson.

SPEAKER_01 (52:01):
Amazing.

SPEAKER_04 (52:03):
The TV show Rachel Gunn, R.N.
And she was Rachel Gunn.
So she was the lead.

SPEAKER_01 (52:08):
She was the R.N.
She was the

SPEAKER_04 (52:09):
R.N.
Okay.
In that show.
She was in the film Richie Rich.
More TV work related.
She was...
I want to say, given when thatcame out, because she was in
Wolf of Wall Street, she musthave played...
What was his name?
Jordan Belfort.
I think maybe his mom.

SPEAKER_01 (52:26):
Oh, because she played Leia Belfort.

SPEAKER_04 (52:28):
Yeah.
So I would guess.
Okay.
The TV series Sullivan and Son,Royal Pains.
More recently, the film LicoricePizza.
And then, I mean, she's done aton of TV work.
And then her most recent longstint was on the show Bob Hart's
Abishala.

SPEAKER_01 (52:45):
Licorice Pizza is one of those movies where I'm
like, yeah, I should see that.
And then 20 years from now.
I should see that.

SPEAKER_04 (52:51):
Yeah, exactly.
Okay, lastly, we're going tobring up Jeffrey Jones.
So he plays Emperor Joseph II.
What I do find interesting isthat he has a couple throwaway
lines where he brings up hissister Antoinette, of course.
Marie.
Marie Antoinette.
Yeah.
Who eventually...
Okay, this is a whole story, butessentially Marie Antoinette,

(53:14):
she was Austrian.
She was married to...
Louis XVI, I believe.
And famously, they were bothbeheaded during the French
Revolution.

SPEAKER_01 (53:27):
What happened during that French Revolution?
Was it a big inequity betweenthe wealthy and the haves and
the have-nots?
It's a big part of it.
Interesting.
Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 (53:36):
And the truth of it is that...
So she was beheaded for treason,and it was...
Because she was secretlycommunicating with her brother,
the emperor of Austria, toinvade France.
And she was caught.
They found out about this.
So I think at the time that themovie takes place, which I think

(53:57):
is like about 10 years beforeall that goes down, that wasn't
happening yet.

SPEAKER_01 (54:02):
They were aware of unrest, though.
Yes.
Hence the ban on the marriage ofFigaro.

SPEAKER_05 (54:10):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (54:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (54:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (54:11):
I don't know how that coincided with the ban on
ballet.
Being incorporated into...
Yeah,

SPEAKER_04 (54:16):
I don't know about that.
But yeah, so it is kind ofinteresting.
There are things that they tookgreat liberty with and there are
things where I'm like, oh yeah,that's historically accurate.
But Jeffrey Jones also, I think,was a casting, a recasting.
Somebody else, Ian Richardson, Ibelieve, was going to be in the

(54:38):
role.
Didn't work out.
Jeffrey Jones steps in.
So we have brought him up.
He's another person who has ahugely problematic Very much.
But as far as filmography, hewas in Easy Money famously,
famously, famously.
And this comes right, rightbefore Easy Money.

(54:59):
Ferris Bueller's Day Off, sowhere he is, I think, going to
forever be known as Ed Rooney.
Rooney! So he is famously inthat.
We did that way back in the dayin season one with Julia.
Go check that out, please.
He, too, is in Howard the Duck.
Yes,

SPEAKER_01 (55:16):
yeah,

SPEAKER_04 (55:17):
yeah.
So there's that.
We also covered Beetlejuice,which he is in.
Please go check that one out.
I think that was with Connor.

SPEAKER_01 (55:26):
We could cover him again in Valmont.

SPEAKER_04 (55:29):
Sure.
So he, I guess, had a friendshipwith Foreman.
Who's Harry Crumb?
The Hunt for Red October.
Ed Wood.
The Crucible.
The Devil's Advocate.
Sleepy Hollow.
He's in Heartbreakers.
And I'm like, who is he inHeartbreakers?
Because I actually have seenthat film a number of times.
I don't remember him.

SPEAKER_01 (55:48):
Yeah, I don't.
I can't remember.

SPEAKER_04 (55:49):
And most recently, the TV show Deadwood.

UNKNOWN (55:53):
Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 (55:54):
Okay.
All right.
Film synopsis.
What do we got?
I mean, I think I know.
We've kind of described it, butwhat do we got?

SPEAKER_04 (56:00):
The life, success, and troubles of Wolfgang Amadeus
Mozart, as told by AntonioSalieri, the contemporaneous
composer who was deeply jealousof Mozart's talent and claimed
to have murdered him.
Murder.
Murder.

(56:20):
Murder.
Uh, that's, I mean, that's, uh,that works.
It does work.
I mean, it's a great film.
I just think it's a touch toolong.
It's, um, I guess I understandwhy it

SPEAKER_01 (56:34):
is.
Cause we, we did like a coupleof time checks when we watched
it and we're like, let's see howmuch time is left.

SPEAKER_04 (56:40):
Oh yeah.
And look, I, it's a beautifulfilm.
It is so well crafted,beautifully acted.
Yeah.
It, I just think, and again, Ithink it's out of reverence.
They have these super longsequences, musical sequences, I
should specify, but it hindersthe pacing of the film.

(57:00):
In my humble, humble opinion,what the hell do I know?
The film won eight Oscars.

SPEAKER_01 (57:06):
It would be a great series on like a streaming
service.

SPEAKER_04 (57:09):
Very much

SPEAKER_01 (57:09):
so.
Because you could just, youknow, you could stretch the
stuff out.
You could do whatever you wantedwith it.

SPEAKER_04 (57:14):
One thing I failed to mention is, because we didn't
really go over his characterthat much, Yeah.
Yeah.

(57:43):
And very much used him.
Like, look, obviously the kidhad the talent.
He was a prodigy, hands down.
If ever there was a prodigy, itwas Mozart.
His father monetized the fuckout of that.

SPEAKER_01 (57:57):
It's like parents of child influencers.
Yes,

SPEAKER_04 (58:00):
exactly.
That's exactly what it was.
Like, when we're joking at thetop of where he's going to
block, that is the most modernequivalent to that situation.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's kind of a bummerbecause it's like, in his own
right, Mozart was a prodigy.
He was incredible.
He did incredible things at avery young age, which continued
with him throughout the entiretyof his life.

(58:20):
But even so, Mozart's fatherwould lie about his age to make
him sound that much moreimpressive.
Like, instead of being six, oh,no, he's four, you know?
And then he truly did take himall over Europe to show what a
genius he was.
And...

(58:41):
It was a really interestingrelationship between father and
son because of that.
I mean,

SPEAKER_01 (58:47):
I got the sense that he just didn't have the money
as, you know, later in life,which, you know, I guess he was
smart enough to try to monetizethe hell out of his kid, but
then he didn't make good use ofthat.

SPEAKER_04 (59:00):
He wasn't good at managing that money because he
didn't make money off of Mozart.
I

SPEAKER_01 (59:05):
feel like he was in the movie long enough to...
know what the relationship waslike with him as a kid, so
that...
Salieri?
Yeah.
So that he could make thatdistinction between he wasn't
just this thing being broughtout on stage, he was a genius.

(59:25):
So you got that side of it, andthen you got enough of him later
in life to know that he coulduse that figure against Mozart.

SPEAKER_04 (59:34):
Which, again, completely fictional.
But the part of the film wherehe goes to Mozart...

SPEAKER_01 (59:41):
Love that mask.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_04 (59:42):
the mask is super cool.
Under the guise of being...

SPEAKER_01 (59:46):
The ghost of

SPEAKER_04 (59:47):
his father commissioning him to write this
death mass, which is like thisvery roundabout way of like, I'm
going to kill him bycommissioning this work.
It's going to drive him to hisdeath and he is going to
effectively be creating his owndeath mass.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:02):
So it's, it's very kind of convoluted.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:05):
That part didn't really work for me.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:07):
I mean, I don't know what the out is, like how you
make that a better story whenreally the entirety of it is
made up.
Yeah.

UNKNOWN (01:00:16):
Um,

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:17):
It I think that's also I think that also kind of
plays a little bit.
I don't know if this is theright word, but into the
romanticism that we attach tothese.
These historical figures and theway that they are about their
craft and they are about theirwork.
I think that there's like kindof a similar vibe that where
people talk about Beethoven andjust like

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:37):
the dog.
No.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:40):
I'm sorry.
And just, you know, they're socommitted.
They're so passionate.
They're so devoted to theircraft that it drives them to
their grave or, you know, thingslike that.
Beethoven lived a lot longerthan Mozart.
But, like, I think

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:51):
that— He traveled through time.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:52):
There are stories about these figures.
Yeah.
So I guess it plays into that.
Maybe that's why it sounds kindof believable that he could have
done that as far as the purposesof the story in this film.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:05):
I was asking several times during the movie, so why
is he dying?
And you're like, oh, it's themusic he's making.
And I'm like,

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:10):
okay.
Yeah.
I mean, I think that like, it'shard to think of a modern
equivalent where people would bedriven to their grave by their
work, but-

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:24):
It would have made more sense if he was just trying
to break his spirit orsomething.
Yeah.
I could have bought that.
But for it to actually kill him,I'm like,

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:33):
okay.
And I don't know if we actuallyhave explicitly said this.
This takes us right back to...
to what we were saying when weopened the episode, where
essentially what is happening,Salieri is so mad at God.
Yeah, yeah.
Because he wants to devotehimself to God.
But also there is a lot ofpretension and pride around
this.
Salieri is like, I'm going todevote myself to you.

(01:01:54):
I'm going to be celibate.
I'm going to- God's like, Inever asked that.
I'm going to make writing musicfor you my life's work.
I'm going to celebrate you.
But also I wouldn't mind if Iwas celebrated as well.
I mean, he very clearly AndMozart

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:10):
was the opposite of all that.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:11):
Yeah, Mozart– and the thing is that Salieri had to
work really, really, really hardto even be proficient at what he
did.
I think he for sure had talent.
I mean he is still remembered tothis day even if like the film
kind of led to a renaissance ofhim.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:25):
He didn't have the support that Mozart had.
His dad like– That's true.
Didn't like– Want him.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:31):
That's very true.
And look, if Mozart hadn't had asupportive dad, who knows how
history would have turned out.
But I mean, it's so clear thathe had, whether you want to call
it God-given or not, he had thisinnate genius about music.
So maybe he would have come tothat anyway, even if his dad
wasn't supportive.
Who knows?

(01:02:51):
But Salieri, regardless, isso...
Mm-hmm.
whatever through.
And then he's like, oh, butinstead you give it to this
asshole who's crass and boastfuland childlike.

(01:03:16):
You give him all this talent.
So basically, fuck you.
I'm going to kill your creation.
That's

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:22):
kind of the

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:23):
spiel that he gives.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:24):
He was a bit of a musical incel.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:27):
Yeah, very much so.
So, yeah.
Amadeus.
Amadeus.
I mean...
As somebody who– I know thatlike you very clearly remembered
that there was the scene whereMozart famously– as far as the
film was concerned.
Yeah.
immediately improves uponSalieri's work after just

(01:03:48):
hearing it once.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:49):
Yeah, the emperor offered him the up the pages and
he's like, no, I've heard itonce.
I got it.
And he starts playing it andhe's like, oh, and the rest is
just kind of the same, isn't it?
And he's like, this is better,don't you think?
He's just like, it's probably myfavorite scene in the whole
film.
That's the scene that Iremember.
And last night was the firsttime I've watched the whole

(01:04:09):
thing.
So that's what I was curiousabout

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:11):
is like, what were your, how did you feel about it
all said and done?

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:14):
Yeah, I...
I enjoyed it.
I wasn't really sure what tothink, but throughout the
process of this podcast, I'venow seen so many movies that I'd
either never seen or had someawareness, but not really much.
So I'm not really surprisedanymore when I see something and
I like it.
So I didn't dislike it.

(01:04:35):
It was long.
I think the performances werepretty amazing.
I understand why it won Best Idon't necessarily understand why
it won compared to some of theother films.
It was a stacked slate ofmovies, I guess, that would have
been up for the Academy Award.
But as far as where I lean, Iguess, in terms of the accuracy,

(01:05:02):
I don't know.
I don't love that a movie takeshistorical figures and then
just...
warps it into something else,particularly when it does it
really at the expense of Ofthose real people?

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:20):
To my knowledge, in terms of what we have been
introduced to for, like,biopics, this might be one of
the more egregious examples ofliberties being taken.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:28):
Like, I don't even know if I can consider it a
biopic or if it's just a moviecalled Amadeus, and it's based
on kind of these people.
The

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:35):
most accurate thing you could say is that it showed
Mozart's genius.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:38):
Yeah, yeah.
You know, so.
As long as you are aware, like,if you know that, then at least
you can watch it and kind ofhave that, like, okay, this is,
like, the movie, but it's notreally real.
I wonder how many people watchit and they're like, fuck this
guy.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:52):
Yeah, exactly.
It's like, oh, what a shame thatpeople may not realize that this
is just completely fictionaltake on the relationship between
these two figures.
Believe it or not, because Iknow sometimes we talk about
like when's the first time we'veseen a movie.
I often don't even ask thatanymore because like I think
it's all been muddled.
Like it's hard for me to likeYeah.

(01:06:12):
Amazing.
Yeah.

(01:06:37):
I think this was like olderelementary school, so still
pretty young.
And in retrospect, I'm kind ofshocked.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:44):
Oh, you saw it in elementary school.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:46):
Yeah.
I'm kind of shocked that sheshowed it to

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:48):
us

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:48):
because I went to a religious school and there's a
lot of themes that I think, Idon't know, are kid appropriate.
But I kind of really appreciatethat she did that because it is
a phenomenal film for all thethings that I've like whatever
said about it.
And I appreciate so much that Igot to kind of see something of

(01:07:09):
that caliber at that age.
So that was my first memory ofthis film.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:14):
That's super cool.
I don't know how I would havereacted in a classroom with that
laugh.

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:19):
I

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:19):
don't know how we did either.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:20):
His character's laugh.
I don't know how you make itthrough that.
Yeah.
And that's another thing that

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:24):
nobody can say, oh, that is exactly how Mozart
laughed.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:28):
No, he just...
He made that up.
He knew someone that had thisreally distinctive laugh.
And so he just...
Went with it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:35):
I think there might be some writing somewhere that
Mozart himself had some kind ofnotable laugh, but nobody can
say what that laugh was.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:44):
He was just given the direction to do something to
make this character his own.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:49):
Yeah, exactly.
Would you see the film again?

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:53):
I mean, I'd break it up a little bit, but sure.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:55):
This was, like, a long time coming.
That's why I wanted to do thisone, because, like, I knew I
liked this film.
I knew it had been a really longtime since I'd seen it.
Yeah.
And I'm glad that we did, but itdefinitely is one of those where
it's like, I don't think it'sgoing to be a yearly watch, but,
you know.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:11):
I enjoyed it.
I'd watch it again, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:14):
Well, we would love to hear from you if you would
like to reach out.
As far as, you know...
call to action.
And look, I would not faultanyone if they did not know the
truth behind the relationshipbetween Salieri and Mozart.
I think I would have like almosta two-parter.
A, have you ever heard ofSalieri before this film?

(01:08:35):
Because that would be reallyimpressive.
I

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:38):
didn't.
That's a good question, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:39):
And two, did you realize that this was like a
fictional take on theirrelationship?
That would be my...
My question, I would really wantto know how many people, because
that to me in a way also showsyou the influence of
entertainment if people don't dotheir own research to know the
truth behind a lot of this.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:59):
My question is whether or not Salieri from a
legal perspective is guilty ofanything.
And I'm going to represent himin this case and say no.
No, what happened to Mozart wasa tragedy, but my client Salieri
is completely innocent of theseallegations.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:20):
What do you think the priest thinks?

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:22):
The priest?

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:23):
Yeah.
Do you think now that he's toldthis whole story?

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:25):
Oh, I think the priest just wanted to get the
fuck out of there.
He was like, okay.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:31):
I think the priest is appalled by how frank Salieri
was being in terms of how hefelt about God, how he felt
about Mozart.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:40):
I think he was shocked by that, but I don't
think he thought he killed him.
I

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:43):
think as soon as he heard that he was blocking God,
he's probably like, I'm kind oftuning you out for the rest of
this.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:51):
Your soul cannot be saved.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:52):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:52):
So please reach out to us.
You can connect throughFacebook, Instagram, or Blue
Sky.
It is the same handle for allthree.
It is at 80s Montage Pod and 80sis 80S.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:04):
And you know what?
We have heard from people Yeah,

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:07):
we just got the loveliest message about finding
the podcast and it was reallytouching to hear.
So really always appreciatethat.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:17):
So much better than people reaching out to say we
suck.
That has not happened, by theway.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:21):
Yeah, I was like, I don't think we've got, I mean,
I'm sure we're not everybody'scup of tea, but thankfully I
have not gotten any messageslike that.
So sneak peek.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:32):
Oh, do I know what it is?
No.
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:35):
So this is kind of an interesting one because I do
think it's a film we shouldcover.
I have seen it, but I'm curiousif I'm going to feel differently
about it because it isn'texactly a film that was like,
oh, my God, it was a greatmovie.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:46):
Oh, perfect.
I'm really looking forward tothis one.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:50):
So let me think of a clue.
Let me think of a clue.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:54):
Well.
Hmm.
Interesting.
Interesting.
Corporate world.
Corporate world.
My secret.
No, but a really

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:04):
kind of similar vibe.
Okay.
It's funny that that's the filmyou called out because that's
like probably way the lesserknown film than the one that I'm
thinking of.
And role reversal.
Oh.
Gender reversal.

SPEAKER_05 (01:11:17):
Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:18):
I got nothing.
Really?
Yeah.
Big hair.
80s.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:24):
Big hair.
Okay.
Big hair 80s.
We've already done Tootsie.
That's big hair.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:29):
What if I mentioned like a super minor character?
I wonder if you'd get it offthat.
Junk Cusack is the friend.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:40):
Hmm.
This is a tough one.
This is a tough one.
This is going to be like on apop culture Jeopardy.
It also

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:46):
stars Ripley and Indiana Jones.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:50):
Oh, God damn it.
Yeah.
Not Sabrina.
That's not an 80s movie, right?
Working Girl?

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:58):
Good

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:58):
job! There we go.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:00):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:01):
I don't even remember why I didn't really
take to the film, but I want tokind of give it another chance.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:07):
But you're right.
That is like the flip side.
Yes.
Yeah.
Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:11):
Cool.
So have you seen it?

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:13):
No.
Okay.
No, I

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:15):
haven't.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I already like...
Kind of clouded.
I

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:18):
already know not to expect much.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
Anyway.

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:22):
But yes, Working Girl is going to be our next
film.
And in the meantime, thank youto everyone for taking the time
to listen to us.
We really appreciate it.
Everybody's busy.
Lots of podcasts.
So that makes it all the moremeaningful that you are choosing
to tune in for us.
And we will talk to you again intwo weeks' time.