Willow

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_04 (00:00):
I am a powerful sorcerer.

(00:11):
See this acorn?
I'll throw it at you and turnyou to stone.

SPEAKER_00 (00:18):
I'm really scared.
No, don't! Don't! There's

SPEAKER_04 (00:23):
a peck here with an acorn pointed at me! I wouldn't
want to waste it.

SPEAKER_00 (00:30):
Hello and welcome to 80s Movie Montage.
This is Derek.

SPEAKER_02 (00:33):
And this is Anna.

SPEAKER_00 (00:34):
And that was Val Kilmer and Warwick Davis in
1988's Willow.

SPEAKER_02 (00:37):
Wow.

SPEAKER_00 (00:38):
Yeah, I sped it up a little bit.
You sped it up.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (00:41):
For our

SPEAKER_00 (00:44):
first episode of 2025.
Season six.

SPEAKER_02 (00:51):
Season six.

SPEAKER_00 (00:52):
Either way.

SPEAKER_02 (00:53):
Either way.
Yeah.
But yeah, it's our firstepisode.
Season six.
Okay.
Yeah.
All right.
We've been doing this for aminute.
Yeah.
Okay.
And with that fanfare.
That's more like it.
Yeah.
Willow.

(01:16):
I had not seen this in a while.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19):
I feel like we had it on maybe within the last
couple years, but I haven'treally paid attention to it from
start to finish.
And I realized in doing so thatKid Me, when I first saw it, was
just happy to see this kind ofmovie.

SPEAKER_02 (01:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:36):
And then a couple years ago, just having it on in
the background, I don't think Inoticed that this is basically
like a mashup of The Hobbit,Star Wars, and Indiana Jones.

SPEAKER_02 (01:48):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 (01:48):
Including the music.

SPEAKER_02 (01:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:51):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:52):
Several times we were like, why does this sound
so familiar?

SPEAKER_00 (01:55):
I'm not really mad about it, but I don't think I
noticed it quite as keenly.
No, I'm not mad

SPEAKER_02 (01:58):
about it.
Maybe it's a bit of an homage.
I don't know if...
It's

SPEAKER_00 (02:02):
Lucas, so...

SPEAKER_02 (02:03):
Well, yes and no.
I mean, he produced it and hehas a story credit, but I don't
know if he's like, hey...
You know, my good friend JohnWilliams makes music kind of
like that.
Like, I don't know.
I don't know.
But in any case, Willow, beforewe jump in, just because we
don't normally cover thesecategories, so I just wanted to

(02:24):
give a shout out that it is anOscar nominated film.

SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (02:28):
The two Oscars for which it got nominations were,
this makes sense to me, firstwas Best Effects Sound Effects
Editing.

SPEAKER_00 (02:38):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (02:39):
I don't know if they actually have that specific
category anymore.
And best effects, visualeffects.

SPEAKER_00 (02:44):
Okay.
Makes sense.
Yeah, it does.
I mean, there was a lot goingon.
And I think at one point I readthat they didn't intend it to be
a, quote, effects movie.
But if you're doing like a darkfantasy or high fantasy movie.
It's going to happen.

SPEAKER_02 (02:59):
Especially when they're battling, what's the
name of the creature?
specifically?
Is it just like a dragon?
That

SPEAKER_00 (03:05):
three-headed thing?
Yeah, yeah.
I have no idea what that was.
I don't know.
I

SPEAKER_02 (03:09):
don't remember what it's called.
But very much like, well, whatdid you say it reminded you of?
Because then I was like, oh, itreminds me of Return of the
Jedi.
Oh,

SPEAKER_00 (03:18):
I mean, yeah, there were parts that reminded me of
like Star Wars bits.
And I think you even said thatlike Mad Mardigan was kind of
like a He's kind of like a

SPEAKER_02 (03:31):
Han Solo.

SPEAKER_00 (03:32):
Exactly, yeah.
So it gave me, it reminded me alot of like, is this just a
remake of like a Lord of theRings-ish kind of thing?
I mean,

SPEAKER_02 (03:40):
we do have to circle back to the fact that it is
originated from a George Lucasstory.
So it's like...
In any case, and yeah, he's thefirst person we're going to talk
about here.
I don't know if you mentioned, Ithink you did, actually.
So this is 1988.
Yes.
So getting towards the end ofthe decade, and we do have two

(04:01):
writing credits.
The first, what's the last timewe talked about him?
I guess it was at this point,since technically this is season
six.
Last time we brought him up wasin season four with Krishna.
Okay.
When we did Empire Strikes Back.
Yeah.
He has a story by credit.
So what is hilarious is that thelast time we brought him up,

(04:22):
which at this point, just atouch over a year ago, because
we did Empire Towards theTailend of season four.
At that point, I think I hadwritten that he had like about
180 writing credits.
Now it's over 200.
And

SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
he's done nothing.

SPEAKER_02 (04:38):
It's like closer to like 215, just because...

SPEAKER_00 (04:41):
All the series, all the Star Wars based series.
Yeah, it is

SPEAKER_02 (04:46):
like absolutely wired and a little bit of
sprinkling in of Indiana Jonesas well.

SPEAKER_00 (04:50):
Yeah, it's a good point.
Because a couple of

SPEAKER_02 (04:51):
things have come up since the last time we talked

SPEAKER_00 (04:53):
about him too.
Yeah.
Did he get a credit for thegame?
Yeah, he did.

SPEAKER_02 (04:57):
So yeah, it is absolutely wild.
No wonder this man is like abillionaire.
It's kind of insane.
Story by credit for this.
So I am not going through 200story credits.
If you want to go to his IMDB,you'll see that the vast
majority are for either StarWars or It's some kind of

(05:22):
connection to the Star Warsfranchise or it's some kind of
connection to the Indiana Jonesfranchise.

SPEAKER_00 (05:27):
Any animated series, any live action series, any
video game series.
Like

SPEAKER_02 (05:32):
anything.

SPEAKER_00 (05:32):
Anything that's based on those, you'll find it
under his name with a story bycredit.

SPEAKER_02 (05:38):
Exactly.
Yeah.
So the ones that I'm going tobring up, what kind of was his
very first...
I don't know.
I guess like really early in hiscareer, I think even while he
was still maybe in film school,he initially did the short
Electronic Labyrinth THX 11384EB.
That became the film THX 1138,from which THX, the sound

(06:04):
system, gets its name.

SPEAKER_00 (06:07):
Yeah, I have no idea what the...
I don't know what it stands for.
How are the demo of ourlisteners break down?
But if you're old enough to havegone in a movie theater when
some of these movies- Oh, it'sso cool.
Yeah, you would just have like areligious experience.

SPEAKER_02 (06:21):
I can't even do it.
It was so cool when that came onthe screen.

SPEAKER_00 (06:25):
Yeah, it was a whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 (06:26):
And then he actually is Oscar nominated because he
got a Best Original Screenplay.
This is even before Star Wars.
Got a Best Original Screenplayfor American Graffiti.
He also got a Best Directornomination for that same film.
Then, of course, Star Warscompletely changes cinema

(06:46):
history as we know it.
He did also– same nominations.
He did get a Best OriginalScreenplay for A New Hope as
well as Best Director.

SPEAKER_00 (06:55):
Otherwise known as Star Wars back then.

SPEAKER_02 (06:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
Whatever.

SPEAKER_02 (06:59):
Although, I mean, even when you're watching the
film– It does– yeah.
It does say A New Hope.
Yeah.
So anyway– And he also haswriting credit for, like I said,
I'm just listing like the firstbecause I kicked it all off for
Raiders and everythingsubsequent.
And outside of Willow, reallythe only other thing that has no
connection to the franchise isRadioland Murders.

(07:21):
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
So the screenplay was written bya gentleman named Bob Dolman.
And I mean, some interestingcredits to his name.
I thought this was reallyinteresting because it seems
like he– Definitely had his handin comedy.
Wait, Bob Dole wrote this?

SPEAKER_00 (07:39):
Dolman.
Oh.

SPEAKER_02 (07:42):
So like SNL, SCTV, which is kind of like the
Canadian version, he has writingcredits for...
a show that was called SCTVNetwork as well as SCTV Channel.
Okay.
And then a couple films.
This is interesting.
And this was another Ron Howardfilm.

(08:04):
He wrote Far and Away, vastlydifferent than that.

SPEAKER_00 (08:08):
Very much so.

SPEAKER_02 (08:09):
The Banger Sisters.
I remember seeing that.
How to Eat Fried Worms.
And then I don't...
I guess I did know that theybriefly had a Willow TV series
that...
Went away.
Yeah.
And he had writing credits onthat.

SPEAKER_00 (08:22):
I haven't seen any of those series.
I haven't either.
I don't know what it's about.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (08:26):
Warwick Davis did come back for it.
In fact, a couple people did.

SPEAKER_00 (08:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (08:29):
So directed by...
I think this is so interesting.
I wonder...
I'm not trying to throw anythingout there.
I wonder what the workingrelationship was between Ron
Howard and George Lucas.
Because that's an interestingmashup to me.
I don't think they'vecollaborated again.

SPEAKER_01 (08:45):
But

SPEAKER_02 (08:46):
Ron Howard...
extremely well-known director.
Also, Richie Cunningham.
At this point, he...
I hope he doesn't take offenseto anybody still saying that.

SPEAKER_00 (08:57):
I wonder if he takes more offense to Richie
Cunningham or Opie.

SPEAKER_02 (09:01):
Yeah, I don't really...
That's even more old school.
I mean, Opie's not our time,but...
It's not, but, like,

SPEAKER_00 (09:07):
reruns of the Andy Griffith show.

SPEAKER_02 (09:09):
Yeah, I mean, I remember just, like, reruns of
Happy Days with RichieCunningham, so...
But he did pivot and pivotedvery successfully into directing
and producing, for that matter.
So I have...
We brought him up a little bitago.
A couple times, actually.

(09:31):
But he's had a couple morecredits added to his name since
the last time we brought him up.
So I will go through them.
I have all films.
He's been pretty...
What?
The film.

(09:52):
Oh.
He did the film.
Yeah, Grand Theft Auto.
Night Shift.
Oh, okay.
Which we did with David, so gocheck that one out, as well as
Splash.

SPEAKER_00 (10:01):
That's the one.
Okay.
That's when I'm like, I think Iknow which one.
That was it.

SPEAKER_02 (10:04):
We did both those.
Splash was with Kelsey.
Obviously, I've gone on and onabout how much I love that
movie.
Go check that one out as well.
There are definitely other filmsof his that we can cover on the
podcast.
Cocoon.
Which I think at some point we'dprobably do.
Yeah, we should.
Gung-ho.
Eh, maybe.

(10:25):
Why not?
We'll see.
Parenthood.
I definitely do want to do thatat some point.
Now we're getting into the 90s.
Backdraft.
I think that was like the filmthat really put him on the map
as a, I don't know, seriousdirector.
Yeah.
That got a lot of acclaim.

SPEAKER_00 (10:43):
Yeah, it had like a whole experience at Universal.
It

SPEAKER_02 (10:46):
did.
I

SPEAKER_00 (10:46):
remember it.

SPEAKER_02 (10:47):
He directed Far and Away.
So like I said, he hadcollaborated again with Dolman.

SPEAKER_00 (10:53):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (10:53):
Then he does Apollo 13, which I love that movie.
I mean, anytime that's on.

SPEAKER_00 (10:58):
It's a great movie.
It's a

SPEAKER_02 (11:00):
great movie.
He did Ed TV, so a little bit ofa departure.
He goes back to comedy.
He did How the Grinch StoleChristmas.
How the Grinch Stole Christmas?

UNKNOWN (11:09):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (11:10):
One of them.
There's so many of them.

SPEAKER_02 (11:12):
There are several

SPEAKER_00 (11:13):
at this point.
Which one did he do?
Was it the Jim Carrey liveaction one?
Okay.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (11:18):
So now, finally, he gets Oscar recognition.
He wins Best Director forBeautiful Mind.
He also produced on that.
So he is part of the group thatwins Best Picture because that
was Best Picture for 2000?
2001?
Yeah.
2000.

(11:38):
No, Gladiator was 2000.
2001, I

SPEAKER_00 (11:40):
think.
2001.
Russell Crowe, though.

SPEAKER_02 (11:42):
He had a great turn of the century.
Yeah.
Which he then also directedCinderella Man, which has
Russell Crowe in it.
He does...
We have this movie on all thetime if it's on TV.

SPEAKER_00 (11:55):
Yeah, there's something about it that's
like...
There's

SPEAKER_02 (11:57):
something about it that's kind of cozy.

SPEAKER_00 (11:59):
Which is such a weird thing to say about a movie
with like the...
self-harming albino guy yeahright

SPEAKER_02 (12:09):
flagellating

SPEAKER_00 (12:09):
yeah and then you got you got to somehow navigate
around um hanks's haircut of

SPEAKER_02 (12:16):
course we're talking about the

SPEAKER_00 (12:17):
da vinci code yeah yeah i don't think he actually
said it when i mentioned hankshaircut everyone knew

SPEAKER_02 (12:22):
uh i mean it's a different look for him but yeah
i don't know what it is aboutthat movie that is just like
kind of it's like just kind of aweird comfort film.

SPEAKER_00 (12:33):
Yeah, it is weird.
And

SPEAKER_02 (12:36):
we both feel that way.
It's very bizarre, but we have,like anytime it's on, we just
keep it on.

SPEAKER_00 (12:41):
I have not seen any of the other movies.
No.
In part because I think thatLike the books, they don't
really connect in a way whereI'm like, I need to see this.
Anyways.

SPEAKER_02 (12:51):
But good point you brought up because then he did
also direct Angels and Demonsand Inferno, which is all part
of that.
I don't, oh gosh, I'm so sorry.
I don't remember the originalwriter of that, of those works.
Dan Brown?

SPEAKER_00 (13:02):
I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (13:03):
Maybe?

SPEAKER_00 (13:03):
Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 (13:04):
So he did all those and then he gets more Oscar
attention.
Nominations, he did not win, buthe did get a nomination for Best
Director as well as Best Pictureagain because he produced on
Frost-Nixon.

SPEAKER_00 (13:17):
Okay.
So he

SPEAKER_02 (13:17):
did that.
And then more recently, Rush.
I guess he must like workingbecause isn't Chris Hemsworth
both in Rush and in In the Heartof the Sea?
I

SPEAKER_00 (13:27):
think he's in both those.
He's definitely in Rush.
I don't know about In the Heartof the Sea.

SPEAKER_02 (13:31):
So he does...
I feel bad because he came onthis late.
There was...
I'm not going to go down therabbit hole, but I think it was
what a duo, a directing duo thatgot fired off of Solo or they
left it.
I don't remember if they gotfired or they left Rush.
because of creative differences.
But he stepped in and did therest of Solo, a Star Wars story,

(13:53):
which, honestly, given thecaliber of director that he is,
he didn't have to do that shit.
Like, he must love the story.
Like, he must love thefranchise.
Because that was going to be areally difficult job for anybody
to

SPEAKER_00 (14:06):
step into.
I really like that movie,actually.
Yeah.
I mean, the one-offs for, Iguess not the hate, but...
kind of the tepid reception thatsome of them received, I think
are better than some of thesequels that we got and some of
the series that we got.
Rogue One is fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 (14:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (14:32):
No, it's an

SPEAKER_02 (14:32):
amazing

SPEAKER_00 (14:33):
film.
I think Howard, whatever hisinvolvement was, Solo was a fun
Star Wars story.
It's all I needed it to be.
Got to see the Kessel Run.
Cool.

SPEAKER_01 (14:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (14:46):
And then they give us like a cut in half Darth Maul
at the very end and no sequel.

SPEAKER_02 (14:51):
Yeah.
Yeah, now that I'm rememberingthat.
So he directed that, HillbillyElegy.
Oh, yeah.
And most recently, Jim Henson,Idea Man.

SPEAKER_00 (15:03):
Oh,

SPEAKER_02 (15:03):
okay.
Yeah.
Okay, so moving on tocinematography, Adrian Biddle.
He's unfortunately no longerwith us.
He passed away in 2005 of aheart attack, which I feel very
strongly his filmography wouldbe much, much longer at this
point had he not passed away.
Because he had an amazing runwhile he was with us.

(15:25):
And so this isn't the first timewe've brought him up.
In fact, he's come up a coupletimes.
His very first cinematographycredit was for Aliens.

SPEAKER_00 (15:34):
Amazing.
Amazing.
First.
I mean,

SPEAKER_02 (15:36):
obviously he'd been working before then, but that's
a pretty strong way to come intothe industry.
Yes.
So he does that.
We also talked about him for ThePrincess Bride.

SPEAKER_00 (15:48):
Not a bad couple of years.

SPEAKER_02 (15:51):
No.

SPEAKER_00 (15:51):
Aliens and The Princess Bride.

SPEAKER_02 (15:53):
He was an Oscar-nominated DP.
And this makes sense to me.
He got a Best Cinematographynomination for Thelma and
Louise.

SPEAKER_00 (16:02):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (16:03):
Which- I don't know if people talk about it in this
way a lot, but I do think it's abeautifully shot film.
It's a really, I mean, it's kindof like, duh, because it's a
movie, but it's a very cinematiclooking film.
A lot of films aren't, but it'slike when you take into account,
you know, the journey, thephysical, the actual journey

(16:24):
that they're going on and likethe landscapes and like, it's
all captured in a very stunningway.
He does, or did, 1492, Conquestof Paradise.
He also did both of the, not theEmma Stone, but the Glenn Close
Dalmatians movies.
So 101 Dalmatians and 102Dalmatians.

(16:47):
Fierce Creatures, Event Horizon.
He did a movie that we alsolove, the 1999 The Mummy.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (16:55):
That's so...
Man, that movie is so good.

SPEAKER_02 (16:57):
So good.
He comes back for The MummyReturns.
Not as good,

SPEAKER_00 (17:01):
but...
Still pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 (17:02):
Still okay.
The kid is just bizarre.
I don't understand that castingchoice at all.

SPEAKER_00 (17:06):
They just had to have a kid.

SPEAKER_02 (17:07):
That kid did not work.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry to be so mean aboutthat.
But that kid was not

SPEAKER_00 (17:16):
good.
I mean, his performance wasn'tthe problem as much as like...
How much time has passed?
Is this even your kid?
It

SPEAKER_02 (17:26):
was a lot of time to have passed.
They didn't even need to have akid.
It could have just been three ofthem again with Evie and Fraser
and the brother.
It could have just been three ofthem again.

SPEAKER_00 (17:38):
Yeah, well then, I mean, look.
The whole thing with them andthe kid is just fantastic to
watch when you consider what youhave to watch slog through the
rest of the franchise.
I

SPEAKER_02 (17:49):
know.
He shot The World is Not Enough,and then his final credit was V
for Vendetta.
Okay.
Unfortunately, we're moving onto somebody else who's passed
away, James Horner.
So we kind of alluded to him inthe beginning of the episode.
So prolific composer.

UNKNOWN (18:08):
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (18:09):
Very famous composer.
He passed away in 2015.
He was, I guess you would say,like an amateur pilot.
And fortunately, there was aplane crash and he did not
survive it.
So same.
I feel like if he had stayedwith us, he'd have a lot more
credits to his name at thispoint, almost 10 years down the

(18:31):
road.

SPEAKER_01 (18:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (18:32):
But from what we had, amazing scores.
So I have...
Yeah, all films.
He was, again, also prettyfaithful to the film.
So earlier in his career, ThePursuit of D.B.
Cooper, which

SPEAKER_00 (18:47):
is

SPEAKER_02 (18:48):
always kind of an interesting...
I don't know if people out thereknow the story of D.B.
Cooper.

SPEAKER_00 (18:51):
It's the guy on the plane and money.

SPEAKER_02 (18:52):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (18:53):
Yeah.
Jumped out.

SPEAKER_02 (18:54):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (18:54):
Never found him.

SPEAKER_02 (18:55):
Correct.

SPEAKER_00 (18:56):
Or the money.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (18:58):
Yeah.
I think they've claimed thatthey've found money, but it's
like, well, I guess you couldmaybe look at serial numbers,
but I don't know if that ever...
panned out that they found anyof the money from whoever that
person was who jumped.
So this is not the first time bya long shot that we've brought
him up because he was thecomposer on Star Trek II, The

(19:20):
Wrath of Khan.

SPEAKER_00 (19:21):
He was, and that is, it's not even close for me.
It's the best soundtrack and thebest opening theme of any Star
Trek movie or series.

SPEAKER_02 (19:32):
He also did Star Trek III.

SPEAKER_00 (19:34):
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (19:34):
The Search for Spock.

SPEAKER_00 (19:35):
Yeah.
That one's a good two.

SPEAKER_02 (19:37):
That one's a good two?
Yeah.
And we did cover the Rathacon.
So please, go check that oneout.
That one was with Owen.
One of our fantastic episodeswith Owen.

SPEAKER_00 (19:45):
I usually talk about those movies.
I'm not going to do it.
New year, new me.

SPEAKER_02 (19:49):
New Derek.
He composed for 48 Hours as wellas another 48 Hours.
He did a lot of sequels forfilms because he did Cocoon.
and did Cocoon the Return.
He did The Journey of NattyGann.
This is a departure in Commando.
He is an Oscar-winning composer.

(20:13):
He has a ton of nominations.
I will go through them.
He gets his first nomination forAliens, which, didn't we say, is
very much like Rathacon?

SPEAKER_00 (20:23):
Yeah, there are some familiarity, some, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (20:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (20:27):
Some shared themes.

SPEAKER_02 (20:29):
Shared themes, which I guess you can rip yourself
off.

UNKNOWN (20:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (20:33):
Nobody's saying you can't.
He composed for An AmericanTale, for which he got a Best
Original Song nomination.

SPEAKER_00 (20:40):
Somewhere out there?
That wasn't him.
Was it?
I

SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
think so.
Wow.
I think it was.
As well as he composes for itssequel, An American Tale, Fievel
Goes West.
He did Batteries Not Included.
He gets his next Oscar nom scoreagain for a film we have
covered, Field of Dreams.
Okay.
That one was with Daniel.
Please go check that one out.

SPEAKER_00 (21:02):
Batteries Not Included was in the 80s.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (21:05):
Yeah, it was.
Just

SPEAKER_00 (21:05):
double checking.
Yep,

SPEAKER_02 (21:06):
it sure was.
He composed for Honey, I Shrunkthe Kids, a film that I don't
know if we will cover because Iwill be a weepy mess if we do
Glory.
Oh,

SPEAKER_00 (21:17):
yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (21:18):
But it is a gorgeous score.
Holy shit, that end.
Yeah.
The ending sequence.
Yeah.
Just, I can't.
It is exhausting to watch thatsequence, but it's history.
He did Patriot Games as well asClear and Present Danger.
I know I brought this one upbefore that I loved this movie

(21:38):
as a kid, A Far Off Place.
Oh,

SPEAKER_00 (21:40):
yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (21:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (21:42):
There's one that I need to bring up that...
We might cover in the same waythat we covered Masters of the
Universe.
And similar to Willow, itborrows heavily themes from Star
Wars and those movies.
And I didn't know that Hornerworked on the soundtrack or was
the composer.
And that's 1983's I knew

SPEAKER_02 (22:03):
you were going to say that.
I was waiting for it.
I knew you were going to saythat.

SPEAKER_00 (22:08):
Thank you.
Thank you for leaving that.
Thank you for leaving that openso that I could just walk right
into it.
Yeah, that movie is it.
Look, it's real weird.
It gets weirder than you think.

SPEAKER_02 (22:21):
OK, I've never seen it.
I just know it.
Yeah, probably because of youtalking about

SPEAKER_00 (22:25):
it.
I think I think that's going tobe on my list for some time this
year.

SPEAKER_02 (22:29):
Okay.
Well, I am firming up this list.
If you want to get in a slot.
I

SPEAKER_00 (22:34):
think it's going to slide into one of those slots.
Oh,

SPEAKER_02 (22:38):
man.
Okay.
So back to his 90s work.
He did also a gorgeous score,Legends of the Fall.
Oh,

SPEAKER_00 (22:46):
yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (22:47):
He did that.
He gets a nomination for, Ithink, well, no.
Okay.
I will get to that when I get tothat.
He gets another original scorenomination for Braveheart.
Makes sense.
He gets another.
score nomination for apollo 13and then here we go so he teams
up with james cameron againbecause he had done aliens and

(23:08):
he does both the score and uhworks with slain dion for the
song he wins for both so

SPEAKER_00 (23:19):
and of course that song is my heart will go

SPEAKER_02 (23:22):
on my heart will go on

SPEAKER_00 (23:23):
yeah

SPEAKER_02 (23:23):
and So there you go.

SPEAKER_00 (23:25):
My heart will go on as you fall off this floating
door, and then I will return athousand years later to drop
this diamond in the ocean.

SPEAKER_02 (23:31):
She annoys me.

SPEAKER_00 (23:32):
That's the full title of the song, actually.

SPEAKER_02 (23:36):
I mean, you don't have to drop into the ocean.
Nobody's going to ever find thatthing.
It's gone.
It is gone.
And I think that that could havebeen a really lovely thing to...
leave for the world ratherthan...
Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 (23:53):
Lady, you just wasted all of our time.

SPEAKER_02 (23:55):
Yeah, exactly.
Lady.
Okay.
So he does A Beautiful Mind, forwhich he gets another Oscar
nomination, Best Original Score,as well as House of Sand and
Fog.
So he has a very strong end ofthe 90s, early 2000, because he
gets another nomination forthat, as well as Avatar, the

(24:18):
original.
So he...

SPEAKER_00 (24:20):
How many are there now?
Are there just two out?

SPEAKER_02 (24:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (24:25):
I think there's just two out, but...
I think so, yeah.
These movies have been aroundfor, what, 60 years now?
Yeah.
And there's going to be 10 ofthem?

SPEAKER_02 (24:32):
They've been talked about, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (24:33):
I don't know.
Okay.
What do you think's going to...
Call to action.
What do you think's going tohappen?
Will...

SPEAKER_02 (24:37):
That's our call to action?

SPEAKER_00 (24:39):
That's mine.
Is Avatar 3 going to come outbefore the next George R.R.
Martin book?
I'm

SPEAKER_02 (24:44):
putting my money on Avatar.
I

SPEAKER_00 (24:46):
think I am, too.
Okay.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (24:48):
And then just to wrap up, before he passed, he
also composed for The AmazingSpider-Man and The Magnificent
Seven.

SPEAKER_01 (24:55):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (24:56):
Okay.
So moving on to film editing, wehave three people listed for
film editing.

SPEAKER_00 (25:03):
Never a good sign.

SPEAKER_02 (25:04):
No.
I mean, look, we joked aboutthat when we were watching this.
This movie is just a touch overtwo hours.

SPEAKER_00 (25:12):
And it was intended to be longer.

SPEAKER_02 (25:13):
Oh, God.
Really?

SPEAKER_00 (25:15):
There was supposed to be more backstory of some of
the characters.
In particular, Mad Mardigan andEric.
And, like, what happened betweenthem.
I actually

SPEAKER_02 (25:24):
would not have minded that.

SPEAKER_00 (25:26):
No.

SPEAKER_02 (25:26):
But, as it stands, this movie could use a little
tightening up.
Yeah.
It's...
For being action-adventure,it...
It drags a bit.
I

SPEAKER_00 (25:39):
love this movie, but...
We paused the movie.
We paused it so we could letWinston do his thing outside.
He is sleeping peacefully rightnow next to us as we record
this.

SPEAKER_02 (25:48):
Winston, just for those who may not know...
Is our dog.
Is our dog.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (25:53):
And when we came back in, I could see where it
had paused.
I'm like, there's still afucking half of this movie left.

SPEAKER_02 (25:58):
Yeah.
So it could have been tightenedup a little bit.
Yeah.
I have no idea...
Why?
Well, OK, I know some idea.
Two of the three editors arebasically editing partners.

SPEAKER_00 (26:10):
Oh, OK.
So kind of almost as likethey're a single.
So really two.

SPEAKER_02 (26:14):
Really two.
The one that was not part ofthat duo, I'm not sure if like
he was brought because when youlook at his filmography compared
to the duo, it is incredible.
starkly different in terms ofexperience.
So I'm not sure if they broughthim in and then it became kind

(26:35):
of clear that maybe he could...
I don't know.
I'm speaking out of turn.
I'm just trying to figure outwhy.
Why would there have been thisguy and then this other duo?
We'll start with the duo.
The first gentleman, they're allmen, that I'm going to bring up,
Daniel P.
Hanley.
So We have brought him up beforebecause he and his editing

(26:57):
partner were– unfortunately, hispartner has passed away.
But they collaborated a ton withHoward.

SPEAKER_00 (27:06):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (27:06):
So there's going to be a lot of repeat.
I don't even know if I– I don'twant to shortcut the other guy,
Mike Hill, but they have almost,I think, identical–
filmographies.

SPEAKER_00 (27:19):
We're not shorting them then.

SPEAKER_02 (27:20):
Almost identical because Hanley, he started on
Laverne and Shirley.
Hill did not.
So he starts out in television,which I don't know, maybe that's
where he met Ron Howard.
That was a spinoff.
I don't know.
Did Richie Cunningham ever makean appearance on Laverne and
Shirley?

SPEAKER_00 (27:35):
He might have, but then there was also some Mork
and Mindy involved.
And I feel like for sure...
I

SPEAKER_02 (27:40):
wonder if Howard directed a couple episodes of
Laverne and Shirley.

SPEAKER_00 (27:44):
Mork from Ork definitely showed up at the...

SPEAKER_02 (27:47):
What a weird, like, connected world

SPEAKER_00 (27:50):
between those shows.
Yeah, it really is.
It really is.

SPEAKER_02 (27:54):
It's kind of bizarre.
But, yeah, because there wasHappy Days, Laverne and Shirley,
Mork and Mindy, Joni and Chachi.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_00 (28:03):
the ill-fated.

SPEAKER_02 (28:04):
The ill-fated Joni and Chachi.
So, yeah.
Familiar names because he wenton to cut Night Shift, Splash,
Cocoon, Gung Ho.
So a lot of familiar names.
He wasn't exclusive, I guess, toHoward because he cut on Pet
Sematary.
But then comes Parenthood,Problem Child, Backdraft, Far

(28:25):
and Away.
He gets a Best Film EditingOscar win for Apollo 13.
Okay.
That makes sense to me.
Yeah.
Does In-N-Out, Ed TV, How theGrinch Stole Christmas.
More nominations for A BeautifulMind, Cinderella Man, Frost
Nixon.
And then also does Da VinciCode, Angels and Demons,
Inferno, Rush, and The Heart ofthe Sea.

(28:46):
So...
Almost exclusively Ron Howard.

SPEAKER_00 (28:50):
I mean, it feels like Howard worked with these
editors but wanted to bringsomeone else in for like a
different look.

SPEAKER_02 (28:56):
Maybe, possibly.
And then as I mentioned, MikeHill.
So yeah, now that I'm looking athis filmography, there's nothing
different from what I juststated.
He and Hanley worked together onall of those films.

SPEAKER_00 (29:10):
If you want, I could just edit that out and you could
just say the name Mike Hill andthen we'll just replay that.
We'll loop it.

SPEAKER_02 (29:17):
We'll loop it?

SPEAKER_00 (29:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (29:17):
Well, we'll just move forward.
Unfortunately, he passed away in2023, so fairly recently of
pneumonia.
But yeah, so those two, probablyone of the most successful film
editing.
I mean, that's interesting to methat they were editing partners.
That's not something I hear of alot, although I think we've seen

(29:39):
like a father and son.
Every once in a while you seeit, but...
And then the last gentleman whohas an editing credit is Richard
Hiscott.
Six total editor credits, twoshorts, two TV movies, and two
episodes of a TV show calledMinder.
Okay.
So that's it.
That's it.
So that's why it's a reallyinteresting kind of breakdown of

(30:02):
who did what in the editing ofthis film.

SPEAKER_00 (30:05):
That is interesting.

SPEAKER_02 (30:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (30:07):
Hmm.
Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 (30:08):
Okay.
Moving on to the stars of thefilm.
Starting with Mad Mardigan.

SPEAKER_01 (30:16):
Yeah.
Bill Kilmer.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (30:18):
It's been a minute since we've brought him up.
Love him in this.
Love him in a lot.
It's actually, I think, one ofthe greatest, I'm going to say
it, travesties of Oscar historythat he was never nominated for
anything.
And it's kind of fuckingridiculous that that's the case
when you look at his

SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
work.
Was he nominated at least forDoc Holliday?
No.
No.
That's at least get a nominationfor that.

SPEAKER_02 (30:44):
No, he wasn't.
I mean, and the thing is, isthat if some people want to
bypass that, OK, fine.
But he didn't even get anomination to as Jim Morrison in
the doors like he was great.
He was Jim Morrison.
It's kind of ridiculous.
So anyway, and it's a shamebecause he's.

(31:06):
He is still with us, but he'shad some pretty serious health
issues over the last severalyears.
And so that has definitely hadan impact on his ability to
work.
But going through hisfilmography, I'm sure we will
bring him up again.
There's one movie in particular.
Actually, it might even be laterthis year.
I have not firmed up the list,but this one's on it.

(31:28):
Top Secret.
Oh, yeah.
That's like his first credit.
Yeah.
We did do real...
And man, we did Real Genius soearly in the show that was like,
I don't know, like maybe thesecond or third episode of
season one.
It's a fun movie.
It is a fun movie.
Of course, we...
Well, I shouldn't say of course.
There's been a lot of movies wehaven't covered yet.

(31:48):
But we did cover Top Gun.
We did.
And that was Katie and Brad.
That one was super fun becausewe...
I mean...
They hadn't seen it before.
Yeah.
Well, Brad had it.
I think Katie had.

SPEAKER_01 (32:01):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (32:02):
But we only a handful of times had double
guests on the show.
So that was a very fun one.
And then he does– so at thispoint, I don't even know if he
is able– he's not able to justlike– Verbally articulate on his
own.
Yeah.
But he was brought back for TopGun Maverick.

(32:23):
Yeah.
And I thought that that was...
Say whatever you want about TomCruise.
I'm not going to go down thatrabbit hole.
But I thought that that was areally lovely thing to do for
him and for that character.

SPEAKER_00 (32:33):
Agreed.

SPEAKER_02 (32:36):
He, as mentioned, plays Jim Morrison in The Doors.
Did not get any Oscar love forthat, which is wild to me.
I

SPEAKER_00 (32:44):
feel like if that came out now, like...
a lot of these like biopics.

SPEAKER_02 (32:49):
I mean, not to be, I'm sorry to cut you off.

SPEAKER_00 (32:51):
No, no.
With like a complete unknown.
Like it feels like every yearwe're getting like a new Oscar
bait biopic towards the end ofthe year.

SPEAKER_02 (32:58):
I mean, I'm not trying to be rude towards other
actors.
They put in hard work to playthese characters, but like, You
know, when you haveWhat's-His-Face, didn't he at
least get a nomination for EltonJohn, I think?
Yeah, I think so.
I think he got at least anomination for that.
What's-His-Face, I'm justcalling all these guys
What's-His-Face, fucking won toplay Freddie Mercury.
Like, I mean, when you comparethose roles to what he did in

(33:22):
The Doors, it's like, come on!Yeah,

SPEAKER_00 (33:25):
no.

SPEAKER_02 (33:26):
Like, come on!

SPEAKER_00 (33:27):
Hey, look, I hear you.
Derek, come on! So...
No, his...
His performance of Jim Morrisonwas, it was just like you said,
like he became him.
He became him.
Yeah, like the singing,everything was just like
incredible.

SPEAKER_02 (33:47):
In fact, the more that I'm talking about this, the
more it pisses me off.
He didn't get any Oscar.
And look, I've said before, likeOscar attention isn't the end
all be all, but it's annoyingwhen people who It's like, why
wouldn't you have acknowledgedhim for what he did in a
particular role?

SPEAKER_00 (34:06):
Yeah, look, it's probably why it is sometimes
tough to even take much of itseriously.

SPEAKER_02 (34:12):
Yeah, no, totally.

SPEAKER_00 (34:13):
It comes out, it's like, okay, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 (34:14):
No, that's more by every passing year, that's how I
feel.
He was in Thunderheart, TrueRomance.

SPEAKER_00 (34:21):
Very underrated movie, by the way.
Thunderheart is really good.
Yeah, it is a good movie.
It's

SPEAKER_02 (34:24):
been a while since I've seen it.
Again, to your point, oh my God.
Yeah.
Tombstone, Doc Holliday, fuckinghell.

SPEAKER_00 (34:34):
Ridiculously good.
Insanely good performance.

SPEAKER_02 (34:38):
Might honestly be my favorite character of almost any
film.

SPEAKER_00 (34:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (34:44):
Like he is absolutely captivating every
single fucking second he's onscreen.
It's wild.
Wild to me that he didn't get anomination for that.
And then he goes to BatmanForever.
Damn.
And that was a movie.
However, he returns to– Ishouldn't say he left for him,

(35:04):
but he also– it's wild to methat he didn't get more
attention than it did.
Yeah.
He's fantastic in that movie.

SPEAKER_00 (35:14):
Agreed.
And then right from that–

SPEAKER_02 (35:16):
Island of Dr.
Moreau.

SPEAKER_00 (35:18):
There's a lot of ups and downs.

SPEAKER_02 (35:19):
Yeah, a lot of ups and downs.
That's how it goes, huh?
Island of Dr.
Moreau.
I feel like he probably tookthat because he, I would guess,
a lot of people would be like,oh, I get the chance to work
with...
Brando, right?
Brando.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Although at that point, Brandowas...
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, uh, but he did that.

(35:40):
He did the ghosts in thedarkness, which I believe that's
with Michael Douglas, right?

SPEAKER_00 (35:43):
It is.
And I wanted to like that moviemore than I actually did because
when it came out, they werereally pushing heavily is like,
this is like jaws in, in theplanes.
Like they did a lot where youwould see like the grass, like
the wind blowing through thegrass, trying to like make it
feel like you're just looking atlike a sea.

(36:04):
And, um, It wasn't even reallythe performances, just like
Michael Douglas' character.
I'm like, eh, it was okay.
It was okay, but not nearly asgood as I would have hoped it
was.

SPEAKER_02 (36:17):
He does The Saint, I believe with Elizabeth Shue.
I think she's in that, right?

SPEAKER_00 (36:21):
She is, yeah.
That's like a James Bond that'snot a James Bond for people who
like James Bond.

SPEAKER_02 (36:26):
Okay.
He does Wonderland.
I remember he got a lot ofattention for Kiss Kiss Bang
Bang.

SPEAKER_00 (36:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (36:32):
And MacGruber.
So, OK, moving on to JoanneWally and for a period of time,
Joanne Wally Kilmer, becausethey did meet and fall in love
on this film.

SPEAKER_00 (36:46):
They did.
They had two kids, the first ofwhom was named Mercedes.

SPEAKER_02 (36:53):
And I think Jack, right?

SPEAKER_00 (36:55):
Yes, Mercedes and Jack.
So quite a pair of...

SPEAKER_02 (36:57):
Because I did watch the documentary on Val Kilmer
and it's his son who largelynarrates it.
Oh, really?
Okay.
And I think his son sounds somuch like him.
I think I thought it was him.
And I was like, how's thathappening?
Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 (37:14):
Well, Mad Margin and Saoirse, their divorce was
finalized in 1996.

SPEAKER_02 (37:18):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (37:19):
Yeah.
So

SPEAKER_02 (37:20):
maybe married about 10 years.
Yeah.
So she...
uh is very busy very busy tothis day she has largely worked
in television so yeah i almostsaw tv for her but earlier in
her career i think she must havebeen like a child actor at some
point uh how we used to live ithink that was really early for

(37:42):
her i do vaguely remember thisthis was like a big deal so
decades upon decades after gonewith the wind came out I don't
know if Margaret Mitchell hadhad a manuscript for a sequel or
if this was totally...
I just don't recall.
But a book came out calledScarlet, and it was meant to be

(38:03):
like a sequel

SPEAKER_00 (38:04):
to Gone with the Wind.
That's bold.

SPEAKER_02 (38:06):
Yes, it is.
And then it got picked up as aTV miniseries.
So she plays Scarlet O'Hara.

SPEAKER_00 (38:15):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (38:16):
And Timothy Dalton plays Rhett Butler.
Okay, okay.
So not exactly Vivian Leigh andClark Gable, but...

SPEAKER_00 (38:26):
Well, what are you going to

SPEAKER_02 (38:27):
do?
What are you going to do?
So she was in that.
I thought you would appreciatethis.
It's a film called TheCalifornians.

SPEAKER_00 (38:39):
Californians.

SPEAKER_02 (38:39):
Californians.

SPEAKER_00 (38:40):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (38:41):
So she does that.
And then the rest of the day, Ihave TV.
So she's been on Gossip Girl.
I'm going to butcher this.
The Borgia...

SPEAKER_00 (38:50):
The bourgeois?

SPEAKER_02 (38:51):
Nope.
Oh.
I may not be saying it right,but that's not

SPEAKER_01 (38:56):
it.

UNKNOWN (38:58):
That's not it?

SPEAKER_01 (38:58):
Okay.
Well, I gave it a shot.
She was on

SPEAKER_02 (38:59):
that.
Beowulf returned to theShieldlands.
Daredevil.
So she does come back for the TVseries Willow.
Oh, good.
She's queen at that point.
That makes sense.
And more recently, Carnival Row.
She's been very busy.

SPEAKER_00 (39:13):
She was also in a little movie starring George C.
Scott that I actually watchedlast week called A Christmas
Carol.

SPEAKER_02 (39:21):
Okay, so I saw that.
Was she...

SPEAKER_00 (39:24):
She was fan.

SPEAKER_02 (39:25):
Okay, that's why I didn't include it because it was
just, I don't think she had likea major role.

SPEAKER_00 (39:29):
No, it's not.
But that's good that you broughtthat up.
I recognized like on her IMDbpage, I saw the image and I
instantly recognized it fromthat movie.
So I had to scroll through abit.
But yeah, that was her.

SPEAKER_02 (39:40):
Moving on to arguably the star of the film.
It is named after him.
And

SPEAKER_00 (39:45):
I, yeah, I just mentioned this before we hit
record.
Lucas was kind of peeved at theorder of the billing on this,
given that Kilmer doesn't showup in the movie until about 28
minutes in.

SPEAKER_02 (39:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (39:57):
And Warwick Davis is in, oh, did you say Warwick
Davis yet?

SPEAKER_02 (40:01):
Maybe.

SPEAKER_00 (40:01):
Anyway, he's in a lot of this.
Says a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 (40:08):
It is kind of, so I think, first of all, it is kind
of hilarious when they threw upthe title credit, because it's
like you've just seen a shot ofthe baby, and they don't, I
don't think, have named her yet.

SPEAKER_00 (40:19):
Oh, they haven't for a while, yeah.
You

SPEAKER_02 (40:21):
don't know that her name is Allura.
So, like, I think you're like,oh, is the baby Willow?
Like, if you didn't know?
Because that's how I kind of...
I think that's how a lot ofpeople's minds would work.

SPEAKER_00 (40:33):
Maybe the lady that was stealing the baby away, is
she Willow?

SPEAKER_02 (40:37):
Because the title card comes up before Willow is
introduced.
So it is a little funny the waythey do that.
I think, you know, to yourpoint, you said this when we
were watching it for thepodcast, he was really young.
So that is often what happenswith credits.

SPEAKER_00 (40:53):
He was 17 when they started filming.
He had

SPEAKER_02 (40:55):
already been doing stuff, and I'll go into it in a
second.
But yeah, you know, he wasyoung.
At that point, the biggest starwas Val Kilmer.
That's fair.
But I get it.
Yeah.
I get it.
It makes sense.
So yes, Warwick Davis.
So I had kind of a...
This is a weird way to, cheekythought.

(41:17):
Oh.
When I was covering his, when Iwas like researching his work
because I'm like, he must bemaking fucking bank because he
has been in so much in so manyhuge franchises.
Like, I mean, holy shit balls.
So anyway, Warwick Davis stillvery much working to this day.
Very, very busy actor.

(41:37):
And he has been part of severalmovies.
huge franchises, starting withStar Wars.
So he's kind of jumped around.
It's not like he's not even thesame character in every Star
Wars movie.
He just often, because of thenature of that franchise and its

(41:58):
fantasy and there's all types ofcharacters, he is able to,
through makeup and what haveyou, morph into different
characters.
So he was in Return of the Jedi.
Probably, notably, people wouldRemember, he was Wicket.
He was one of the Ewoks.
So you don't even see himbecause he's in a full costume,
but he's in that.

(42:19):
I'm just going to go through allthe Star Wars films real quick.
He was in A Phantom Menace.
He was in The Force Awakens.
He is in Rogue One, a Star Warsstory, as well as The Last Jedi,
as well as Solo.
another Star Wars story, and TheRise of Skywalker.
So he was in the final trilogyin different ways,

SPEAKER_01 (42:40):
as

SPEAKER_02 (42:41):
well as those two one-offs, kind of.
Okay.
So he's kind of been part ofthat franchise here and there.
He was in Labyrinth, which wecovered.
So go check that one out.
And then this is so fun becausehe headlines his own franchise.
He is Leprechaun.

SPEAKER_00 (43:03):
That's right.
He is the leprechaun in themovies.
He is

SPEAKER_02 (43:06):
the leprechaun.

SPEAKER_00 (43:07):
Called Leprechaun.

SPEAKER_02 (43:09):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (43:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (43:10):
And as of now, there have been six films in this
franchise.
So it's Leprechaun 1, 2, 3.
Leprechaun 4 in space,Leprechaun 5 in the hood, and
Leprechaun 6 back to the hood.

SPEAKER_00 (43:27):
Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 (43:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
The worrying of it's a littlewhatever.
It

SPEAKER_00 (43:31):
came back to the hood then.
Yeah, it came back to the hood.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (43:34):
So I think I did read though that like those are
pretty physically demandingroles for him and he's getting
older.
Yeah.
So I don't know if it's likereally something he can do
anymore.
I think he has said that.
that it's like, Kind of tough.

SPEAKER_00 (43:50):
Can we have a Leprechaun 7, Son of the
Leprechaun?
Son

SPEAKER_02 (43:53):
of the Leprechaun.

SPEAKER_00 (43:54):
Just move the legacy on?

SPEAKER_02 (43:56):
So the other huge franchise that he has been part
of is Harry Potter.

SPEAKER_00 (44:01):
He is Professor Flitwick.

SPEAKER_02 (44:03):
That is his main character.

SPEAKER_00 (44:05):
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
In the

SPEAKER_02 (44:06):
franchise.
But as with Star Wars, becauseit's fantasy, and often you have
characters who are in makeup orcostume or whatever, he has
played multiple characters.

SPEAKER_00 (44:16):
I mean, you can recognize him as Flitwick.

SPEAKER_02 (44:18):
Correct.

SPEAKER_00 (44:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (44:19):
Correct.
Yeah.
But he has, I think, been partof almost...
Because there's one, two, three,four, five, six, seven, eight?
There were eight films?
Because there were seven books,but then they divided up the
last one, right?

SPEAKER_00 (44:32):
Yeah, I think that's right.

SPEAKER_02 (44:32):
So I think he's been part of all of them.
Sorcerer's Stone, Chamber ofSecrets, Prisoner of Azkaban,
Goblet of Fire, Order of thePhoenix, Half-Blood Prince,
Deathly Hallows Part 1 and Part2.

SPEAKER_00 (44:43):
That's all of them.

SPEAKER_02 (44:44):
That's all of them.
So he's done...
All of that.
Of course, he did come backbecause he is Willow for the TV
series.
And then more recently, I didn'tactually see a ton of voice work
for him, but he's been prettyconsistently...
He has done voice work for TVseries.
I don't know this, but it'scalled Moon in Valley.

(45:05):
Okay.
No.
I don't

SPEAKER_00 (45:07):
know.

SPEAKER_02 (45:09):
I don't know.
But in any case, so he's beenvery busy.

SPEAKER_00 (45:12):
There was another...
kind of franchise, but The Lion,the Witch, and the Wardrobe.
Yeah, I saw that too.
Prince

SPEAKER_02 (45:20):
Caspian and...

SPEAKER_00 (45:21):
The Voyage of the Dawn Treader in the 80s.
Like, that was 89, but then hewas also in the...
Like, when they rebooted thosemovies in 2000s.
Yeah.
He was in one of those again.

SPEAKER_02 (45:33):
No, that's good that you brought that up.
I...
Yeah.
Those weren't hugely successfulto me.
I read all those books

SPEAKER_00 (45:41):
when I was a kid.
Yeah, I think I did too.
I didn't...
I saw the first movie and I waslike, oh, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 (45:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (45:48):
But yeah, it was, it's, the biggest surprise for
me is I didn't realize thatthere were, there was like an
80s version of it.
Oh, okay.
It was like it was a TV show.

SPEAKER_02 (45:59):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (45:59):
That he was on back in the 80s.
So I don't think I, I had noidea that there was even a show
for it.

SPEAKER_02 (46:05):
All right.
Moving on to Jean Marsh, whoplays Queen Bavmorda.
Am I saying that right?

SPEAKER_00 (46:13):
Bavmorda.
Yeah.

UNKNOWN (46:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (46:15):
And she is still very much with us, 90 years old.

SPEAKER_00 (46:19):
Wow.

SPEAKER_02 (46:20):
Her first credit, which was an uncredited credit,
was in 1947.
So it's been a minute sinceshe's been working in the
industry.
And yeah, I mean, a lot of herwork, because I think, am I
remembering correctly?
I think she's British, I want tosay.
Yeah, born in London.
So a lot of her credits, Ithink, are for UK properties,

(46:43):
right?
That like I didn't...
I just wasn't familiar with.
Some though.
Like she had a role.
I think she was Caesar's wife inthe film Cleopatra.

SPEAKER_00 (46:54):
Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 (46:56):
Which is weird because I think she was like...
I think that was like anuncredited credit.
She also...
Face of a Stranger.
That was a film.
TV series.
The Informer.
The film Jane Eyre.
Another film.
The Eagle Has Landed.
TV series.
So...
This is interesting.
So they made a TV series off ofthe film 9 to 5.

SPEAKER_00 (47:19):
Oh.

SPEAKER_02 (47:20):
Yeah.
Okay.
So she's in that.
Return to Oz.
The TV series Doctor Who.
So she was on Doctor Who for awhile.

SPEAKER_00 (47:26):
One of them.

SPEAKER_02 (47:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (47:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (47:30):
Yeah.
That's been a whole ongoingthing as well, right?
I'm not as familiar.
I'm not honestly almost entirely

SPEAKER_00 (47:35):
unfamiliar.
I think they do like a handofffrom one person to like there's
always like the next Doctorthing.

SPEAKER_02 (47:40):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (47:41):
Like that's how they like switch it.
But I've talked about it before.
Like I've always wanted to getinto it.
I don't know if there are likebooks that I could read because
some of the old shows, theeffects are just– they're so
rough that like if you're justwatching it now for the first
time, like no.

SPEAKER_02 (47:59):
Is it based off?

SPEAKER_00 (48:00):
I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (48:00):
OK.

UNKNOWN (48:01):
OK.

SPEAKER_02 (48:01):
I don't know either.

SPEAKER_00 (48:02):
Yeah, call to action.

SPEAKER_02 (48:03):
She was on a TV show.
I don't think this is like whatwe've watched before, The Ghost
Hunter.
But she was on a

SPEAKER_00 (48:10):
TV show.
I bet it's not InternationalGhost Hunters, no.
What was that?

SPEAKER_03 (48:15):
What was that?

SPEAKER_02 (48:16):
She did come back.
I think it was for maybe oneepisode for Willow, the TV
series.

SPEAKER_00 (48:21):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (48:21):
And yeah, over the course.

SPEAKER_00 (48:22):
That's interesting since I thought that she like
was vaporized at the end of themovie.
It was a fun

SPEAKER_02 (48:27):
way to bring you back.
I mean, it's magic.

SPEAKER_00 (48:29):
Somehow Palpatine came back.

SPEAKER_02 (48:30):
Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (48:31):
It's magic.

SPEAKER_02 (48:32):
And she just over the course of her very long
distinguished career, lots of TVwork.

SPEAKER_00 (48:39):
Did you mention The Changeling?

SPEAKER_02 (48:42):
Oh my God.
I missed that.

SPEAKER_00 (48:44):
She was in The Changeling.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (48:46):
She was.
Who did she play?

SPEAKER_00 (48:47):
Joanna Russell.
Who was that?
Don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (48:51):
Was she the one who was kind of prickly?
Maybe.
About, oh God.
That

SPEAKER_00 (48:56):
would fit her style.
That would totally

SPEAKER_02 (48:58):
fit.
Yeah.
I wonder if that's, becausethere's honestly not a ton of
characters.

SPEAKER_00 (49:02):
There aren't.

SPEAKER_02 (49:03):
Maybe that was her.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I missed that one.
No worries.
Okay.
Moving on to Patricia Hayes.
So, okay.
So is the name Raziel?

SPEAKER_00 (49:14):
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (49:15):
Okay.
Thank you.
She, unfortunately...
Look, I really love that thisfilm brought on so many actors
who are, like, maybe a littlebit more veteran in their
careers, but that also meansthat they're no longer with us,
largely.

SPEAKER_00 (49:30):
Because their career started a long time ago.

SPEAKER_02 (49:32):
Yeah.
So...
Patricia Hayes, much in the sameway as Jean, although Jean Marsh
is still with us, she startedvery early.
Her first, it was uncreditedcredit, her first credit was in
1936.
1936.

SPEAKER_00 (49:46):
Yeah.
Wow.

SPEAKER_02 (49:49):
1936.
And...
A ton of TV work.
I mean, she had a very extensivefilmography.
I did throw in a couple films.
She was in the film The Life andAdventures of Nicholas Nickleby.

SPEAKER_00 (50:03):
Yeah, people would recognize that.
Yeah.
Like, yeah.
I

SPEAKER_02 (50:05):
think so.
Yeah.
Another film called The Battleof the Sexes.
This was interesting to me.
So when I first saw the onecredit, I was like, yeah, okay.
So she was on Benny Hill.

SPEAKER_00 (50:14):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (50:15):
But I did not realize that there was Benny
Hill and then there was theBenny Hill Show.

SPEAKER_00 (50:20):
I had no idea.
Which one had the yackety sacks?

SPEAKER_02 (50:23):
The Benny Hill Show?
I don't know.
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah, that's as much as I can

SPEAKER_00 (50:30):
do.
Well done.
I'm going to for sure clip that.
That's going to be our newintro.

SPEAKER_02 (50:34):
Our new intro.
So she was on both of them.
And Benny Holt, that was likejust his name, right?
That was actually the comedian'sname, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 (50:44):
Or not?
Maybe.
I don't know.
It is a name.

SPEAKER_02 (50:47):
I just remember as a kid seeing the reruns and to
throw out this word a secondtime in this episode, very
cheeky show.
Oh,

SPEAKER_00 (50:54):
yeah.
It is.

SPEAKER_02 (50:55):
Very cheeky.

SPEAKER_00 (50:56):
Yeah.
It was like inappropriate humorfor kids to be watching almost
all of the time.

SPEAKER_02 (51:02):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (51:03):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (51:03):
Very much so.
Some of her other TV work, andagain, like these...
She did a ton of TV.
I just picked ones that she hadlike kind of a longer stint
with.
The author, Arthur.
Not author.
Arthur?
Yes.
Like the name.
Arthur.
Haynes Show.
Okay.
She's done that.
The Last of the Baskets.

(51:25):
I don't know any of these.

SPEAKER_00 (51:26):
No more baskets.
That was the last of them.

SPEAKER_02 (51:28):
Till Death Us Do Part.
Oh.
Yeah.
A little bit of a change up onwords.
Lady is a Tramp.
This, so I am almost certain weprobably didn't bring her up,
but we did talk about a moviethat she was in already.
Actually, two of them.
The NeverEnding Story.
She

SPEAKER_00 (51:46):
played Ergel.

SPEAKER_02 (51:47):
I don't know off the top of my head who that is
supposed to be.

SPEAKER_00 (51:50):
Not sure.

SPEAKER_02 (51:51):
Not

SPEAKER_00 (51:51):
sure.

SPEAKER_02 (51:52):
But she was in that.
That one we did with Mike.
Oh my gosh, that was probablyall the way in season one as
well, maybe?
Yeah.
Season one or two.
So go check that one out.
And then also A Fish CalledWanda, which we also did.
So go check that

SPEAKER_00 (52:06):
one out.

SPEAKER_02 (52:07):
I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 (52:08):
But that's her.
This is

SPEAKER_02 (52:09):
probably the first time we've brought her up,
honestly.

SPEAKER_00 (52:12):
It probably is.
Is my guess.

SPEAKER_02 (52:14):
So, okay.
Moving on to another actor whohas come up on the show, Billy
Barty.
So he plays High Aldwyn.
So he is kind of like that...
Like the sorcerer,

SPEAKER_00 (52:28):
right?
He's the like quote unquotelegit sorcerer in Willow's
village.

SPEAKER_02 (52:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (52:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (52:33):
What's the difference between a sorcerer
and a wizard?

SPEAKER_00 (52:35):
Oh my God.
That's like, that's going to godown a whole Dungeons and
Dragons path that I just can'tgo down right now.

SPEAKER_02 (52:41):
So here's what's interesting.
The last time we brought him up.
So he passed away in 2000.
I'll go over.
He's come up a couple of timesactually on the show.
But the last time I brought himup, he had 213 acting credits.
Somehow, even though he passedaway in 2000, it is now 214.

SPEAKER_00 (53:02):
He posthumously increased this.
I have no idea.
Okay.
I don't

SPEAKER_02 (53:05):
know what was added, but...
Yeah, so Samesies, as a coupleof these people, now he has just
beat both Jean Marsh andPatricia Hayes because his first
credit was in 1927.

SPEAKER_00 (53:19):
That's wild.

SPEAKER_02 (53:20):
We keep jumping back 10 years.
It's not a contest.
Every person, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (53:24):
But he won.

SPEAKER_02 (53:25):
So he won.
I think he does hold the record,at least for this episode.
So his first credit was a shortcalled Mickey's Pals, and he did
a ton of, I don't know this...
Mm-hmm.
So he did that.
He has an uncredited credit forThe Bride of Frankenstein,
another film called The Undead.

(53:47):
I mean, he did a ton of stuff.
Kind of in the middle of hiscareer, I have a lot of TV work
for him.
So he did The Red Skelton Hour,Sigmund and the Sea Monsters,
Dr.
Shrinker.
Wait, what?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Dr.

SPEAKER_00 (54:05):
Shrinker.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (54:07):
The Croft Super Show and the base.
Okay.
That

SPEAKER_00 (54:12):
is

SPEAKER_02 (54:13):
it.
They're robbing a train.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yep.
So he was in that.
We also brought him up.
This is probably the most recenttime we've brought him up.

(54:35):
Masters of the Universe.

SPEAKER_00 (54:37):
Gwildor.
That's right.

SPEAKER_02 (54:39):
So go check.
That was with Paul.
Go check that one out.
As well as UHF.
He's in that.
Noodles.
And just, yeah, over the courseof his career, tons of credits,
tons of work, lots of TVappearances.
Okay.
We are coming down to, let'ssee, the last, we got about
four, technically five.
It's like the twins, the baby.

(54:59):
So kind of one person.
But anyway, moving on.
This is a weird character to me.
So we're talking about Kale.
Is that how you would say it?

SPEAKER_00 (55:09):
The general, basically?
Yeah.
Like cool skull mask?

SPEAKER_02 (55:13):
Yeah.
To me, it's a strange characterbecause I don't really get
anything from this guy.
Like he has no...
They don't give him anything inthe film.

SPEAKER_01 (55:21):
No.

SPEAKER_02 (55:22):
If I'm going to...
nitpick something it's the factthat like yes the queen is the
main villain but she is he isher henchman yeah and there's
like no there's nothing there'sno personality

SPEAKER_00 (55:34):
he's just he's the equivalent of that chromed out
stormtrooper from uh the forceawakens who you think is going
to be super cool and then you'relike okay

SPEAKER_02 (55:43):
oh my god that just made me sad again i'm

SPEAKER_00 (55:45):
sorry

SPEAKER_02 (55:47):
damn because that was what's her face from um
Fucking Game of Thrones.

SPEAKER_00 (55:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (55:55):
And

SPEAKER_00 (55:55):
yeah.
Can't think of her name yet.

SPEAKER_02 (55:57):
Christy.
Something Christy.

SPEAKER_00 (55:58):
But that.
Maybe.
Gwendolyn

SPEAKER_02 (56:00):
Christy.

SPEAKER_00 (56:01):
Sure.
I

SPEAKER_02 (56:01):
think.
Okay.
We'll look it up now.
I'm going to be really impressedwith myself if I pull that out
of nowhere.
Gwen.
Duh.
Yes.
Oh my God.
I was right.

SPEAKER_00 (56:12):
Well done.

SPEAKER_02 (56:13):
Well done.
Okay.
So.
Yes.
I am a little sad that we didn'tget more from that character.
You're

SPEAKER_00 (56:23):
one of them.

SPEAKER_02 (56:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (56:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (56:25):
Yeah.
The actor who played Cale wasPat Roach.
He too has passed away.
He passed away in 2004.
Very interesting career.
One super notable...
Not to say that nothing else hedid was notable, but one very
notable character.
This...
Okay, so over the course of hiscareer, he does...
I have...

(56:46):
He did do a lot of TV work,actually.
Like a lot of one-offs andtwo-offs.
I have almost entirely film workfor him.
He was in Barry Lyndon, Clash ofthe Titans.
He was a big guy.
We

SPEAKER_00 (56:57):
might cover Clash of the Titans.
Oh, for sure.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (56:59):
At some point.
So here we go.
He's in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
And I know you were like, he waswho?
He

SPEAKER_00 (57:06):
was two.
He was two.

SPEAKER_02 (57:07):
Yeah, two

SPEAKER_00 (57:09):
different people.

SPEAKER_02 (57:10):
He was...
He's, I guess, in the openingwith Marion in Nepal.

SPEAKER_00 (57:15):
He's a giant Sherpa, right?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (57:17):
Yeah.
So, but more notably, he is...
He's

SPEAKER_00 (57:22):
the mechanic of the...
Plane.

SPEAKER_02 (57:25):
The Nazi plane.

SPEAKER_00 (57:26):
Yeah.
Like where he gets in the box.
He's like the boxer.
So he gets in the boxing matchwith Indy.
And then at the last second,Indy ducks and he's chopped up
by the propeller.

SPEAKER_02 (57:36):
That's him.
Yeah.
That's him.

SPEAKER_00 (57:38):
Very memorable scene.
Very

SPEAKER_02 (57:40):
memorable

SPEAKER_00 (57:40):
scene.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (57:42):
And for the few seconds that he's on screen.

SPEAKER_00 (57:48):
He doesn't say much.
No.
And he's

SPEAKER_02 (57:49):
like excited to fight.
Yeah.
He's like kind of like, oh,let's fight.
Like he.
It's not like he even hatesIndy.
He's just like, yeah, let's box.
Let's fight.
Like he kind of has a smile onhis face about it.
It's like a very interestingtake on the character.
So that's him.
And then he must have had justlike maybe some kind of
friendship or something withlike Lucas or Spielberg because

(58:10):
he's in the other Indy movies asdifferent characters.
So he is in Indiana Jones andthe Temple of Doom as well as
Indiana Jones and the LastCrusade.
So he's in both of those.
Yeah.
He, and again, like I mentioned,he was a big guy, so it kind of
makes sense that he's in some ofthese types of movies.
He was in Conan and theDestroyer.
As

SPEAKER_00 (58:27):
the man ape, comma, destroyer.
Toth Amon.
I don't know what that is.
The Toth Amon, he might havebeen like that evil dark god at
the end that he had to fight.
You know

SPEAKER_02 (58:36):
better than I would.

SPEAKER_00 (58:37):
I don't know that well, but I'm trying to think of
what else.
I don't know what that thingmight be, but it could be that.

SPEAKER_02 (58:43):
So he's in that.
He's in Red Sonja.
I guess, I don't know.
It has been ages since I've seenthis movie.
He's in Robin Hood Prince ofThieves.
Oh.
But I'm not sure who he is inthat.

SPEAKER_00 (58:56):
Well, thank you for saying that title.
So now I have that song in myhead.

SPEAKER_02 (58:59):
You're welcome.

SPEAKER_00 (59:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (59:01):
He also was in Cole the Conqueror.
Not

SPEAKER_00 (59:03):
to be confused with Krull.
I know.
Not related at all.
Very different.

SPEAKER_02 (59:09):
And then one of his last credits was a TV series
that he was on for quite awhile.
Sounds German.

SPEAKER_00 (59:16):
Auf Wiedersehen.

SPEAKER_02 (59:18):
Oh, is that what that word is?
I was going to.

SPEAKER_00 (59:22):
I think so.
If I'm just looking at that, I'mgoing to pronounce

SPEAKER_02 (59:25):
it.

SPEAKER_00 (59:26):
So Goodbye Pat?
Yeah.
Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 (59:28):
Oh, man.

SPEAKER_00 (59:28):
Auf Wiedersehen.
Okay.
I don't know Germanpronunciation, but if I was
going to guess...
No, you

SPEAKER_02 (59:32):
did it perfectly.
You did it perfectly.
Yeah.
Okay, cool.
Yeah.
So moving on to the...
I guess they're called brownies?

SPEAKER_00 (59:41):
They are.

SPEAKER_02 (59:41):
Right?

SPEAKER_00 (59:41):
Yeah.
Oh, you know, when we talkedabout how this is basically a
mashup of Star Wars and IndianaJones and The Hobbit, it's also
a mashup of Gulliver's Travels.
Yes, you're right.
Yep, yep.
And...
Here come the brownies.

SPEAKER_02 (59:54):
Here come the brownies.
The first of which, KevinPollack.
Amazing.
Of all people.
Yeah.
Fantastic.
So kind of wild.
This was earlier in his career.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:03):
Strenuously abject.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:04):
Strenuously abject.
Although that was Demi Moore.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:08):
But he's making fun of it.
He's making fun of it.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:10):
So he plays, I guess it's just Rule.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:13):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:13):
Rule in the film.
Yeah.
This is the first time we'vebrought him up.
He's a great actor.
He

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:21):
really is.
That's crazy.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:23):
He's a great actor.
I don't know if we'll bring himup again.
Hmm.
Because he really came on thescene in the 90s.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:30):
Better get our money's worth out of this then.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:32):
Yeah.
And I have earlier in hiscareer, quite a few films.
And then more recently, he'sdone a ton of TV work.
I mean, he's just very busy.
Very long filmography.
Continues to grow because he'svery active.
Yeah.
But some of his films includeL.A.
Story, and then you alluded toit, A Few Good Men.

(01:00:53):
Yep.
Poor guy when Nicholson's like,who, you, Lieutenant Weinberg,
like with such disdain.
Yeah.
Why not me?
Yeah.
He's so mean to him for noreason.
He's really good in that movie.
He also is very good.
So he was in A Few Good Men aswell as Grumpy Old Men as well

(01:01:15):
as Grumpier Old Men.
Damn.
A lot of men movies.
Clean Slate, Miami Rhapsody.
Okay, so when I think of him, Ido immediately think of A Few
Good Men.
However, I'm going to venturethat a lot of people think of
him first off in The UsualSuspects.
Yeah.
He's part of that huge ensemblecast.

(01:01:37):
He was in Casino.
that thing you do.
He is the dad and she's allthat.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:42):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:43):
And then now I mentioned TV work.
So some of the TV series thathe's had like longer stints on,
Vamped Out, Angel from Hell.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:53):
Oh, interesting.
So Lucifer.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:56):
Yeah, right.
That's what that would be,right?

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:59):
Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:59):
Mom.
Better Things, and then evenmore recently, The Marvelous
Mrs.
Maisel, which I think justconcluded.
Really?

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:08):
I

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:08):
think so.
I think it's over.
I think it's done.
All right.
Our last main character is theother brownie.
Is it Franjean?
Franjan?
How do you say his name?

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:19):
I'd say it the first way.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:21):
Franjean?

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:22):
Yeah, let's go with that.
Did I not say it the same way?
I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:25):
So Rick Overton, which this is so funny
because...
You know, they're wearing makeupand they're also brownies, so
they're super tiny on screen.
And I was like, oh, is that theguy from The Burbs?
No, but both of their names areRick.
Okay.
So the Rick in this movie isRick Overton.
The Rick from The Burbs is RickDucoumon?

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:47):
A tale of two Ricks.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:49):
A tale of two Ricks.
Yeah, he...
I don't...
I mean, he...
Does it make sense why I wouldthink he was the other Rick?

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:57):
Well...
It's kind of hard.
Like they, it was kind of hardto see them as the Brown.
Like they, obviously they likedid the best they could with the
effects.
They had them do all their stuffseparately and then would have
them kind of like imposed inwith the, with the rest of the
film, but they were tiny.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:16):
They were tiny.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:17):
Maybe if we were in a theater, I would be able to
see them a little bit better.
And our TV is not tiny, but theywere still pretty tiny.
And they were giving off bigLenny and Squiggy vibes.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:26):
Yes.
You know, which is kind of funnybecause we were talking so much
about Ron Howard.
Yes.
I wonder if he's like, just doLenny and Squiggy.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:35):
Because that's kind of what they did.
Yeah.
That is kind of what they did.
But this guy is superinteresting.
His dad was Thelonious Monk'sbig band arranger.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:46):
Wow.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:47):
Which is super cool.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:48):
That is very cool.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:49):
And a music teacher at Juilliard.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:51):
His dad.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:54):
Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:55):
So a very creative family.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:56):
And then his son went on to become a brownie.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:59):
And then, yes, the dad's son became a brownie.
So he also, holy shnikes, he'svery busy too.
He has done a ton of work.
Still very much working today.
Some of his cards, I have like alittle bit of a mix between...
Film and television.
So he was in Young Doctors inLove, Gung Ho.
So maybe he'll come up again.
He might also come up again forEarth Girls or Easy.

(01:04:22):
Probably at some point.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:23):
Yeah, we should.
We might do that.
We should, yeah.
Not sure I

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:25):
feel about that, but.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:26):
That's Goldblum, right?

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:27):
And Geena Davis.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He also was on the TV seriesBill and Ted's Excellent
Adventures, plural.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:37):
Is that live action or animated?
I think

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:41):
it's live action, but I don't know.
He was in, so now we're movinginto the 90s, Groundhog Day.
He reteams with Ron Howardbecause he's in a TV.
He plays, I just thought thecredit was funny, he plays
Frantic Man in Cloverfield.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:59):
Oh, that could be so many people.
I feel like that's everybody.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:01):
Yeah, but that's who he plays.
He was on a TV series called I'mDying Up Here.
I

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:07):
love it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:08):
And then just, yeah, a ton of TV work.
Okay, so finally, finally, Ijust wanted to mention because
like she is kind of the centerin some ways of the film.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:19):
Oh, yeah.
The baby.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:21):
Elora Dannen.
I wish if there was any, so Iwould have liked to have seen a
little bit more backstory on ValKilmer's character.
I kind of would have liked toknow why.
Why is this little girl part ofthis prophecy?
Like, why her?
Who were her parents?
Like, why?
Why?

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:41):
What's the deal here?

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:42):
What's the deal here?
Oh, and you were mentioning allthe things that this film is
kind of based off of.
Also, the Moses story.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:49):
Oh, big time.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:51):
Big time.
Yeah.
I mean, down to the visual ofher going down a river.
Yeah.
So, she was played by, so asthis, Always happens.
Twins played this character,Ruth and Kate Greenfield.
They

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:09):
were very expressive babies.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:11):
Very expressive babies.
I don't know what they did toget that baby, babies.
They got a lot out of thosebabies.
To get those looks.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:19):
I don't know if they just kept a camera on that baby
and did different things.
Yeah, and then just usedwhatever footage worked for the
moment.
That would make sense.
But...
That's it.
That's all they ever did.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:33):
That's wow.
I was wondering if they wouldhave like it would have made no
sense for them because theycould have anyone be like
whoever that character is.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:42):
Yeah.
I mean, it's interesting thatthey picked a baby who at the
very end were presumably I thinkyou're led to believe that Mad
Mardigan and Scherzer were.
I'm going to say her name wrong.
Sorry.
Sorsha.
Sorsha.
I can't say it.
Anyway.
It seems like they're going toraise her.
Yeah.
And they make a point of, like,the baby's hair very much looks

(01:07:03):
like, like, she looks like shecould be the kid.
At least Sorsha.
Sorsha?
Yeah, no, I can't say it.
So, because she also has, like,the big, fluffy red hair.
Yeah, yeah.
So, I don't know if that waspart of why they picked those
kids.
Also, just, you know, kids whogenerally aren't cranky and
crabby and colicky the the girlswere born in 87 the film came

(01:07:26):
out in 88 so they they were veryyoung when they filmed this yes
not newborns but very young sothey did great film synopsis

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:36):
what do we got

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:37):
a young farmer is chosen to undertake a perilous
journey in order to protect aspecial baby from an evil queen

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:44):
yeah no look that's that's Good as anything, right?

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:49):
It is.
I mean, I think it's kind ofinteresting that the whole
reason why Willow goes isbecause...
What's the character's nameagain?
Hi, Aldwyn.
Just asks him, like,essentially, do you love this
baby?
Do

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:06):
you have any love for this child?
Yeah, do you

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:07):
have any love for this child?
So if Willow had said no, thenwhat?
He...

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:13):
Probably would have said that you're going to have
to– you'll have to find some.
You

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:16):
have to find some.
So essentially it's like to sayhe was chosen.
He was chosen because he justsaid, yeah, I care about this
kid.
I don't want anything to happento her.
It didn't

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:25):
– A young farmer is chosen by fate.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:29):
But it doesn't say that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:30):
No, it should though.
It should, yeah.
That would be

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:31):
my– that's

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:32):
my revision,

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:33):
yeah.
So, yeah, I mean– and like Isaid, it would be interesting to
know like why was– Allura, sospecial.
I know she has the mark on herarm,

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:45):
but...
That's what you would...
You'd find out more of that ineither a series or a sequel.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:50):
True.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:51):
Right?

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So...
It is accurate.
But yeah, it's kind of funnybecause like I said, in some
ways, this film feels way toolong.
I think it's just because theaction sequences are like a
little...
And even at the end, when thequeen is battling with what's
her face, like that goes on along time.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:11):
It does.
A lot of it goes on for a lot oftime.
A

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:16):
lot of it goes on for a lot of

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:18):
time.
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:19):
Which...
I would have liked to have seena little bit more backstory on
the characters.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:24):
Well, if this was made now, it would either be
like...
We'd get through half of it viaeight episodes on Netflix before
it's canceled.
Or it might be two movies ormultiple movies.
I don't know.
I'm

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:36):
curious if Lucas had an idea for it to kind of
stretch out in the same way thatStar Wars did.
I

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:44):
think I read somewhere that the movie did
not...
financially perform quite aswell as they had hoped, but
there was still more story.
So Lucas had provided kind oflike an outline that was taken
up with some books that werewritten afterwards.
And people hated the booksbecause certain characters were
killed off pretty quickly.
It was a much darker tone.

(01:10:05):
And Lucas apparently was sodissatisfied with them himself
that he's kind of like,

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:10):
Oh.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:11):
Distanced himself from that.
So I don't know if the newseries worked from those at all
or if they just went in atotally different direction.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:18):
Okay.
I mean, I did enjoy watchingthis movie.
It had been a while.
I had definitely seen this filma handful of times.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:30):
It's still a fun movie.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:31):
It is a really fun movie.
I do really love the...
Although you were joking, andyou're not wrong, but there's,
like, way too many meaningfullooks.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:43):
Oh, my

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:44):
God.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:46):
We get it.
Yeah.
We get it.
Saoirse and Mad Mardigan.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:50):
But it is a really fun relationship.
It is very similar to Han andLeia in terms of initially the,
like, antagonism between them.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:03):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:04):
So there is a lot of...
I mean, there's a lot ofsimilarity in a lot of ways
with...

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:10):
The theme, like the music that they would play when
they were having some of thosemoments felt so much like either
Indy and Marion or Leia and Han,like just mixed up a little bit.
But yeah, it was interesting.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:25):
I think that...
I'm trying to think.
Was it...
What was the one with...
Matthew Broderick and...
Oh, Ladyhawk.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:38):
Ladyhawk.
Ladyhawk.
Ladyhawk.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:42):
Where I really...
It kind of feels similar to mewhere it's like it was a really
interesting film that...

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:50):
Much better music.
Potentially.
Ladyhawk?
No.
In this?
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:58):
Where you have these like really fun kind of action
sequences where...
Um, you have a very strong lovestory, but certain things like
could have been tweaked a littlebit.
I love Willow.
He is a very, very likeinteresting lead to me.
He was like essentially the leadof the film.
I mean,

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:18):
he was his name on the film.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:20):
So, so I liked everybody in the film.
It's just like, I don't know, asmuch as they were entertaining,
maybe we didn't need thebrownies.
Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:30):
I don't know.
Well, without the brownies, wedon't get that love powder that
gives us the whole Matt Mardiganand Sorcerer thing.
But

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:37):
there's got to be another way.
The Patricia Hayes charactercould have somehow done it.
Or even Willow could, becausethat was part of his arc, is
that he was learning how to be acompetent sorcerer.
So he himself could have donethat.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:49):
I think they could have wandered into those woods
and still encountered the same,what is it, the fairy presence
that...
That was

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:58):
cool.
I liked that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:59):
Yeah.
The brownies are, like, evenwhen I was a kid, they were kind
of, like, my least favorite partof the

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:05):
movie.
Because I'm just trying to thinkof, like, what could have been
cut so that they could havegiven that time to the things
that we felt were missing.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:11):
Yeah.
If they kept the same runtimebut cut out the brownies and
gave us more of the backgroundof Mad Mardikin's and Eric's
story.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:19):
Yeah.
That

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:20):
would have been fine.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:21):
And also.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:23):
Look, I just saved them a ton of money on FX.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:25):
Yeah.
I mean, just to know, like, whatis the backstory of all the main
players?
Like, why is the Queen evil?
Like, at the end, where she'slooking pretty haggard.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:34):
No, she just is.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:35):
And so we were questioning, okay, so why all of
a sudden is she looking thatway?
And we both were, like, comingup with ideas.
Like, is it because there's,like, some kind of magic that
keeps her young-looking, andthat's, like, going away because
it's looking like the prophecyof Allura...
vanquishing her or whatever youwant to say is coming true.
Is it because like you weresaying, Oh, it's her evil.

(01:13:58):
That's actually showing through.
Yeah.
Like, we don't know.
We don't know how she came topower.
It almost felt like is, uh,please say her name.
Yes.
Is that like her biologicaldaughter?
Like that seemed like that was areally weird relationship
between the two of them.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:16):
Yeah.
She turned her into a pig.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:18):
Yeah, she was really mean to her own kid.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:20):
All those pigs outside the castle.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:22):
That was horrific,

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:23):
actually.
They had to keep dumping coldwater on them because all the
pigs were trying to have sexwith each other.
Is

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:28):
that real?

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:28):
Yes.
Yeah.
Oh, God.
Which would have been realdifferent if you were just
watching who you think are allthese people just started going
at it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:36):
Oof.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:37):
Oof.
Oof, my goof.
Yeah, they had to keep the pigsapart.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:40):
That was pretty horrific.
Yeah, yeah.
So good effects in that way.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:44):
I say leave that in.
It would have even been morehorrific.
Like, what are they doing?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:49):
But like, yeah, I'm just trying to like if the film
could have been the pacing couldhave been picked up a little
bit.
I think maybe this huge ensemblecould have been pared down a
little bit.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:03):
Because even like.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:04):
As a kid, I was just like immersed in this world that
they created.
So it didn't really I didn'treally feel that the first time
I saw it.
But watching it now, it doesfeel like halfway through,
you're like, oh, we're at theend, right?
Nope.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:18):
Yeah.
I loved Willow's family.
I thought his family was verysweet.
I loved his wife.
However, whoever he was, likethe magistrate or whoever was
kind of like a dick to him allthe time.
What the fuck was that guy'sname?
Actually, to tell you the truth,the whole sequence where he goes
out with like a group of

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:37):
Yeah.
Could have been cut.
That's a good point.
It

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:39):
could have just been him like, go take the baby and
go.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:42):
Because they don't see any of them again, do they?
No,

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:44):
not really.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:44):
There are no like consequences for that jackass.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:48):
So like a lot of that could have been cut.
But it is enjoyable.
Like you said, I think I have adifferent response to it as an
adult than I did as a kid.
Oh,

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:57):
we didn't talk about the dogs yet.
Those evil hounds.
Yeah.
You know what they were?

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:01):
Tell me.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:02):
They were Rotties.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:04):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:04):
Roddy is with some like a mask on.
I figured.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:08):
I figured.
Yeah.
Because they were not like,whatchamacallit, from The
Princess Bride, where I'm like,those are not animatronics.
Yeah.
Rats of unusual size.
Yeah.
I was like, those are actualanimals that are like in
costume.
You can just tell from the waythat they're moving.
Yeah.
So hopefully they were treatedwell.
It's always a little iffy.

(01:16:28):
when that is like a realcreature being used.
It

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:32):
looked like they were having fun.
Sure.
Yeah.
Running around, tearing upstuff.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:37):
I mean, I'm curious if we ever had watched the
series, if that would inform howwe feel about the film now.
And we haven't.
So who's to say?
Unfortunately, like a lot ofthings nowadays, it's just like
was there and then it wasn't.
So it went away.
I do think I remember WarwickDavis being upset, I think, that
it got canceled.

UNKNOWN (01:16:57):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:57):
I'm sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that maybe at some pointwe'll take a look at the show.
But it is really fun.
It had been a while.
And yeah, I think it's like agood background movie, to be
honest.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:12):
Yeah.
I don't need to

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:13):
be watching it every single second.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:15):
You don't.
No.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:17):
So then it sounds like I know the answer to would
you watch this film again?
I will.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:24):
Yeah.
I for sure will.

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:26):
Yeah.
I'm not like looking at you likeyou're lying to me.
You don't have to convince me.
Maybe you're trying to convinceyourself.
Possibly.
Call to action.
So what was your call to action?
It wasn't even about this movie.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:44):
Yeah.
What was it

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:45):
about?

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:45):
It was whether or not we're going to see a new
Avatar movie or Game of Thronesbook first.
That's

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:51):
right.
Okay.
Well, that could remain yourcall to action.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:55):
My other call to action though.
Yes.
What is Black Root?
There's a scene where MadMardigan is giving the baby some
black root to chew on.
Oh,

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:06):
yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:07):
And Willow says, I have two kids and everyone knows
not to give a baby black root.
And he says, it'll put hair inher chest.
Is it like tobacco for them?
Is it like...
I

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:16):
think it is.

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:17):
In real life, it was just real vanilla bean that they
were chewing on.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:24):
The...
Well, that's

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:26):
what Mad Mardigan was.
Val Kilmer, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:30):
That makes sense.
I mean, a baby that young shouldnot be having anything except
for formula or milk.

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:34):
Whatever they were holding.
Like, I don't think they had heractually chewing anything.
Okay, good.

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:41):
My call to action would be, like, we've brought
this up at various pointsthroughout the episode.
I'm curious what people, like,did the same kind of thing come
up for them watching the film interms of like, oh...
This reminds me of Star Wars orthis reminds me of Gulliver's
Travels or this reminds me ofthe biblical Moses story.
So many things.

(01:19:01):
So many things.
And there's nothing wrong withthat.
I think that actually is astrength of Lucas.
Like I was saying last night,like he is really good at
putting together all these likemythological elements.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:19:11):
So...
It's not a criticism.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:14):
No, it works better in that direction because there
are a lot of superheroes,Superman in particular, that
were based in part on, what wasit, John Carter?
Oh,

SPEAKER_02 (01:19:26):
really?

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:27):
Like that failed movie with the guy on Mars.
Yep.
And he had different powersbecause of him being...
There were a lot of things thatwere based off that, so...
You know, when you go in thewrong direction and people
aren't familiar with it, notgreat.
Even if you say like, well,Willow kind of makes me, reminds

(01:19:48):
me of these other stories, but Ilike it, maybe a little better.

SPEAKER_02 (01:19:51):
Yeah.
So just would love to know whatcame to mind.
Maybe other stories, tales,whatever, that we haven't even
brought up in the episode.

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:02):
Yeah, like Krull.

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:04):
Is there?
No, no, there's not.
Okay, okay.
So if you want to reach out, wewould love to hear from you.
You can reach out throughFacebook, Instagram, or X at
this time.
It is the same handle for allthree.
It is at 80s Montage Pod, and80s is 80S.

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:20):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:21):
I am almost positive that you have no idea what we're
covering next.

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:26):
You would be correct.

UNKNOWN (01:20:28):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:29):
But I promise to do my best with your clue.

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:31):
I'm actually really curious if you're going to be
mad at me for booking this film.
Okay.
It's a musical.
All right.
So the one clue I'm going togive you.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:42):
Yeah.
I think you

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:43):
might be able to get it off this.

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:44):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:45):
Carol Burnett.

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:47):
Oh, we're going to watch Annie?

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:48):
Yeah.
Okay.
What do you think?
What do you think of that?
This

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:51):
is the

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:51):
first you're hearing this news.

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:52):
I mean, I have seen this movie.
It's ridiculous, but sure.
It's

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:56):
been a really long time since I've watched it, but
I just thought it's thebeginning of a new year.
Honestly, sometimes that's likea depressing time of year for
people.

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:05):
Was this inspired by a Christmas story?
No.
The reference, like the littleorphan Annie that they're
listening to on the radio?

SPEAKER_02 (01:21:13):
It wasn't.
I don't know what...
prompted me to want to watchthis next.
I just honestly, like I wassaying, sometimes this time of
year can be a little bit sad forpeople.
And I was like, well, maybe wedo a lighthearted kind of
like...

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:26):
Lighthearted musical.
And we've already done thepirate movie, so what do we got

SPEAKER_02 (01:21:29):
left?
So, yeah.
And then...
Very rarely do we do this.
I just do this at the beginningof the season, once mid-season,
once end of season.
But for anybody out there whodoes enjoy the podcast, if you
were so inclined to want to giveus a review on any of the
podcast, whatever, Spotify,Apple, wherever you find us,

(01:21:54):
that would be amazing.

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:56):
And if you've made it this far through...
To hear this request, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 (01:22:00):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:02):
I mean, most people, you know, put this right at the
beginning and it's superannoying, but we don't do that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:22:07):
And this will be the last time we do it for a while.

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:22:10):
So thank you in the meantime, outside of that, for
just listening to the podcast.
We know you have lots ofchoices, so we appreciate you
taking the time to listen toours.
And we will talk to you again intwo weeks time.

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