Episode 8-More Parts of My Story

In this episode  I share my friend Amber's podcast episode interviewing me and telling my story. I share parts of my story I have never shared before and dive deep into the parts of me that brought me to where I'm at. 

Follow Amber and her incredible podcast "Life of a Lotus" here: 

https://open.spotify.com/show/5cW4olfdADoMr4XWCeplEj?si=aqp_4EZlQdup8tRw4IHiSQ&preview=coverart

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/life-of-a-lotus/id1722532104


Her instagram: 
https://www.instagram.com/bamboo2187?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==

And be on the lookout for next week's episode on here where she shares her story, its super inspiring so don't miss it! 

Instagram: 8thwonderdesigns
Shop 8th Wonder: www.8thwonderdesigns.com

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello and welcome to the eighthwonder podcast inspiring you to
be proud of where you're at onestory at a time.
I'm your host Ashley.
Let's get started.
Welcome to episode eight.
today's episode is a little bitdifferent.
I had the opportunity to be on afriend's podcast and tell my
story recently, and I'm going tobe releasing that on my podcast

(00:22):
as well.
her name is Amber and I am goingto link her podcast in the
Information down below.
So you should go listen to herpodcast.
It's amazing and I'm superexcited because she's actually
going to be my guest next weekand we're going to get to tell
her story and that will bereleased on my podcast, on my
podcast as well as on hers.

(00:42):
So this will be a fun littlething that we're doing together
and I'm so excited for you guysto listen.
A lotus is a flower rooted inthe mud that rises through and
above to become a beautifulbloom.
This is a podcast sharing mineand other stories of how we've
done the same.
Choosing to rise above ourcircumstances to bloom.

(01:04):
I'm your host Amber.
Let's get started.
So this is my friend, Ashley.
Or not wait, Oh my gosh.
I have to tell you something inmy mind.
You are a Stephanie.
Oh, really?
I don't know why that'sinteresting.
It's just always been that way.
So you know how in your mind,when you're worried, you're

(01:25):
going to say one thing.
So you keep telling yourself tonot say it that way.
And then you end up saying itthat way.
Yeah.
So I was like, this is Ashley.
I mean, wait, did I say thewrong name?
Um, we know each other throughgentle warrior.
I feel like half of this podcastis just like, let me interview
every single gentle warriorbecause everyone's a bad ass,

(01:45):
right?
Um, but yeah, so that's how weknow each other through gentle
warrior.
Uh, you've been in it from thebeginning, right?
Yeah.
Joined in January.
Yep.
And then.
Now we're on our second year.
Yes.
I love it.
And what I love the most, I feltlike this was like perfect
timing is you started, juststarted your own podcast and

(02:06):
clothing brand.
Yep.
Do you want to talk a little bitabout those and then just tell
your story and behind all ofthat?
So I don't think like it's beensuper clear.
Cause it's kind of confusing,like the brand idea with the
podcast.
I think it goes perfectly.
It makes sense to me.
Thank you.
Yeah, I love that.
I think people are, some peopleare confused, so I'll just touch

(02:26):
on that a little bit.
Um, so I do the same type ofpodcast as you, just people
telling their story and then howthey've overcome.
And then we, I partner with oneof my really good friends.
Who's an amazing artist.
And we design, we create adesigner on their story and then
we put on a shirt and then weput it on my website for sale.
So there's two right now, butthere'll be a lot more to choose

(02:47):
from eventually.
And this is one of them.
Yes.
Thank you for wearing it.
It's so comfy.
I know they're the best and theywash super well.
Yeah, they're nice.
So the name of your podcast andyour.
Clothing brand is eighth wonder.
Yes.
Don't tell the story behindthat.
Yeah.
So, um, I had a friend over oneday and we were talking about
some hard things I was goingthrough with my family.

(03:10):
And she like looked me in theeye and she was like, you're the
freaking eighth wonder of theworld.
And I literally started crying.
Cause I was like, that is thesweetest thing.
Like anyone's ever said to me.
And it humbled me a little bit.
Cause I'm like, well, there's alot of people that are eighth
wonders.
Right.
And that's the whole purpose ofmy.
Podcast is to like interview thecycle breakers and the eighth
wonders of the world.
And so that's where the namecame from.

(03:31):
And it just meant so much to meactually got it tattooed on my
arm as like a reminder tocontinue to strive to be who I
am and to not let things get inthe way of that.
Yeah.
So I love that.
I love that.
This is what I love about thepeople that I get to talk to.
And especially where you'reactually taking action on it
because you also see howimportant it is that people see

(03:53):
the beauty in their journey andrecognize like how far they've
come.
I think we forget that sometimesto look back and be like, Holy
shit.
Yeah.
I'm a whole different person.
Look at what I've actuallyaccomplished and kind of pat
yourself on the back for thatbecause you deserve it.
Yeah.
Like my tagline is be proud ofwhere you're at because I think
we do forget.
Like we get stuck in the, like,we're striving to do more and we

(04:16):
forget to like, be like, look atwhere I'm at.
Like I have overcome so much,you know?
Yeah.
So I think that's really cool.
I agree.
I, one thing that I didn't knowabout you and I thought was
really great.
So you had your launch party,which was so beautiful and you
got up and you said, That a yearago you were so anxious.

(04:37):
You couldn't even make a phonecall to make your kids
appointments.
Yeah.
I hated talking on the phone.
And that's like something likethat, I think is again,
sometimes we forget and we havea hard time looking back, but
that's a huge milestone to beable to look back and be like,
Whoa, yeah, I am so different.
Totally.
Okay.
So do you mind just like talkinga little bit about that and then

(04:57):
just we'll jump into your storya bit.
Cool.
Um, so I.
grew up really anxious.
I can talk about that, likewhere that came from when I talk
about my story.
But, um, and then like the olderI got, the more anxious I got,
it just got worse and worse.
And so.
I like, I had been told as achild, like even in high school

(05:18):
that I wasn't good at talking onthe phone.
Like that was a story thatsomeone told me and I believed
it.
Yeah.
Um, and so I would always getlike really anxious whenever I'd
have to make a phone call and Iwould like stumble over my words
and not be able to speak or likeget anxious and freeze, like
just awful and just likeintensified when somebody told
you that.
Totally.
And then when texting came out,it was like, Oh, this is an easy
way out.
Like let's just text, you know?

(05:39):
And so I got comfortable withthat.
And didn't make a lot of phonecalls.
And I was even scared, like Isaid before, like to call my
kid's doctor and schedule adoctor's appointment.
Like I would literally get onthe phone and be like, hello.
And like, they would say helloback.
And I'd be like, click.
And then I would call my husbandand be like, you can do it.
Like I can't, it was justridiculous to where they
recognize you as a lady thatjust likes to say hello.

(06:01):
She's just lonely.
She wants to say hello.
That's so funny.
I didn't even think of it likethat, but that's really funny.
Yeah.
So I just was so anxious.
And I've.
Um, you know, combated that mywhole life.
And so I've, it's a hugemilestone to be on a podcast,
hosting like all the things,it's just crazy.
And put yourself in front of somany people.
Yeah.

(06:21):
I think not just puttingyourself in front of so many
people, but telling your storyin front of so many people.
Cause like the thing is, is Ican get up and talk about
burritos all day long to get upand talk about something that's
so personal things that I've hadto fight through and really push
my way through.
Yeah.
Um, Even before, uh, the growthjourney that I was on, like.

(06:43):
Was scary.
Totally.
To be vulnerable in front ofpeople is like, uh, especially
cause we're taught as kids notto do that.
Like, well, I was anyways,taught to not show your
emotions, not be vulnerable.
And so it feels like it's aweakness and then you learn,
wait, no, this is actuallystrength and it helps people
feel less alone.
Exactly.
And even now, like I'll catchmyself sometimes, I think I told

(07:04):
you about this where, um, I hadanother, we had a play date and
there was another, the mom cameover, I'd never met her.
And so I had like, we didn'thave any rapport whatsoever.
This is our first time meeting.
And she asked me a questionabout her family.
And I was like about my family.
And I was like, you know what,I'm just going to be honest.
And if she can't, if it's hardfor her to, Hold that, then

(07:26):
that's fine.
Yeah.
And I was vulnerable and justhonest with the way that my
family is in the way that I grewup and it like opened the door
for her to be vulnerable.
I could see like the wall comedown and all of a sudden she's
sharing things with me thatusually people don't share on
their first meeting.
Yeah.
That's so beautiful.
Beautiful.
Yeah.
And you didn't have anyexpectations.
You were like, whatever.
Like if she can't hold it,that's okay.

(07:47):
But I'm still going to share.
Cause it feels.
True to me.
Right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
It's gotten to the point where Ithink before it was, and tell me
if you feel this way too, whenyou were talking to people for
me, it's like, It's easier forme to adjust it just enough to
where it's not a lie, but it'snot the complete truth and then
everybody feels comfortable.

(08:08):
I feel comfortable and they feelcomfortable because I don't
feel, I don't know this personwell enough to know if I can
tell them the whole truth.
And then later on, as I wouldget to know people, I would
backtrack and be like, well,actually, this is what happened.
And in that instance, it wasalmost like it felt more
constraining and For me to dothat versus it felt more freeing

(08:31):
and less like, what's the word?
Um, like claustrophobic, Iguess.
Yeah, that's good for me to justtell the truth of what really
happened.
Yeah.
Instead of holding yourself backand putting yourself in a box,
it's like, actually let me shareand make you comfortable enough
to share as well.
Exactly.
And that's what I love.

(08:52):
Like, I love people's stories.
They've made me.
Feel comfortable enough to sharemy story and then to like grow
further, you know, it justcreates this like atmosphere of
vulnerability.
That's like really cool.
Yeah.
Well, and I think it's greattoo, because I think in our
group of our gentle warriorgroup, it's become the
expectation of it's a safe spacewhere I, we feel safe enough to

(09:16):
be vulnerable and.
We laid the groundwork for,that's just how we are.
That's how the conversationgoes.
Everybody is vulnerable.
And I think that for peopleoutside of that group, because
we have this whole group that wecan be that way with, for people
who don't have that group, it'slike set the, we're creating

(09:39):
this comfy little place of It'sokay for you to be vulnerable,
which is what we needed at onepoint.
Yeah, totally.
We did.
Yeah.
It's changed my life.
People being vulnerable with me.
And it's almost like the morethat I'm vulnerable about little
things.
I don't know.
I just feel like we all, all ofus, when we started to tell our
stories, we like put the littlefeelers out and like waited for

(10:02):
the room to react and everybodywas just so loving and
understanding that it was like,okay, I can do this.
Jump into this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Totally.
So amazing.
So, sorry, I keep saying this,but like, I keep interrupting
you, but go.
No.
I actually was listening to yourpodcast this morning and I text
you earlier in the week where Iwas like, I just realized how

(10:23):
much I don't know about you.
Yeah.
So you're originally fromIllinois.
Yes.
I'm from a tiny little town inIllinois.
Okay.
Um, 1600 people was thepopulation.
I had like 60 people in mygraduating class.
Tiny hated it.
Everybody knew everybody.
Um, bullying was very rampant inmy high school.
Um, there were like well to dopeople and then the other

(10:44):
people.
Um, and so that was interesting.
That's definitely a part of mystory.
Um, I grew up and my biologicaldad left when I was two.
Um, yeah, I don't really tell, Ihaven't told a lot of this part
of my story, but why not?
Right.
So he left when I was two, um,lots of abandonment ones there
that I didn't even realize tilllike this year.

(11:06):
Um, because my stepdad came inwhen I was like three and he
married my mom when I was four.
So he's my dad.
Like that's who I've alwaysknown as my dad.
And he had two sons that hebrought into the marriage.
They're older than me.
Um, and we grew up in this tinylittle town.
My dad was a police officer.
My mom had a daycare, um, and Ihad like a seemingly normal

(11:27):
childhood.
Um, however, my mom was raisedin a really hard.
Environment growing up.
Um, and she came to adulthoodwith tons of wounds of not
loving herself of not, and shecouldn't hold that for herself,
let alone her daughter.
And so she didn't teach me.
How to love myself, how to likefeel my feelings.

(11:48):
It was like, no, don't do that.
Go to your room, stop crying.
You know, like no fault of herown.
She just didn't know any better.
Which honestly I think is very,very common of showing kind of
how we mentioned before ofshowing those emotions, like
Stop crying.
Where are you crying?
Yeah.
And crying private.
Don't cry in front of otherpeople.
Yeah.
It's just like that generation.
It's how they grew up.
They didn't know any better andthey didn't have the tools that

(12:09):
we have or the access to theinternet or all the things, you
know?
Yeah.
And so she just, there was a lotof generational trauma that got
put onto me.
Um, and then, um, I was actuallysexually abused as a child, but
I actually didn't know at thetime.
Like I, my brain had blocked itout and I actually didn't
remember until I married myhusband.
So, it's interesting growing up,there was always like this

(12:32):
feeling of, I'm broken, there'ssomething wrong with me, I felt
something inside of me, but Ididn't have access to what it
was.
Um, and so, like I went to highschool and I was bullied really
bad in high school.
Um, in fact there's an incidentwhere like I got locked in the
bathroom and I was like sobbingbecause I couldn't get out.
Someone locked you in thebathroom?
Someone locked me in thebathroom.
Wow.
Um, and like, I couldn't getout.

(12:53):
We had like a bathroom in thehallway and it was like separate
from the other bathrooms andthey like locked me and
barricaded me in.
Um, people like swiping booksoff my desk, telling me I was
ugly as a dog, like just awful,awful, awful things.
Wow.
Um, and because it's a smalltown, like, When somebody starts
treating you that way, peoplejoin in because they want to be
popular and they don't want tobe the, the person that's

(13:16):
getting bullied.
Right.
It's like, let me join in.
So I don't be the target.
So I had a huge target on myback.
Um, and at that age, yeah, you,if it's one person, it's like,
Oh, what's wrong with thatperson.
But when more and more peopleare joining in, it's like, it
must be true.
Yeah.
And then at home, when you'rehaving a really hard time at
home, Like you're having a hardtime at home with your feelings.

(13:37):
You're not telling your parentsyou're being bullied.
So you're crying yourself tosleep at night.
Like I was just, it was awful.
And, um, it's interestingbecause I like, I don't know.
I, like you said, I started tothink like, what's wrong with
me.
And because I'd already had thatfeeling of like brokenness
inside because I was sexuallyabused and I couldn't access the

(13:59):
memory.
Yeah.
Um, I was, I had such a hugetarget on my back because I
would instantly, like I was sosensitive.
I would sob and like, that'swhat they wanted.
They wanted to break me down.
And I did like, I didn't playtheir game.
I just was like, well, I didplay their game because they
wanted me to cry and I would,and I couldn't hold it in.
And so I was like the weaksensitive girl that everybody
could make fun of.

(14:20):
And it was just awful.
Um, and since then I've had someof them reach out and apologize.
And I'm like, it's beeninteresting.
And like, it's okay.
Like you didn't know any better.
Like you were in high school,right?
We're all trying to be cool.
And like, It's fine, but it did,it was hard.
Yeah.
It was really hard to grow up inthat environment and to have
like at home, I couldn't showemotion.
And so it was just like thisawful inside.

(14:41):
Like, honestly, I several timesthought about committing
suicide.
Um, I never got to the pointwhere I like planned it or, but
it was definitely a thought forsure of like, I need to escape
this, you know?
Yeah.
It was just really hard.
Um, and then I moved on tocollege and I had like an
abusive boyfriend in college.

(15:02):
Um, very physically abusive.
Um, we were in, this is like asilly story, but we were in a
Buffalo wild wings one time andsome guy was like checking me
out and he flipped the table.
My boyfriend like flipped thetable and was like screaming
because some guy checked me outas if you have control, right?
Like he wouldn't let me wearmakeup, like controlled what I
wore.
Just very controlling.
Wow.
Very abusive.

(15:24):
Um, when I broke up with him, hethreatened to commit suicide and
came to my house and was likethrowing our pictures in the, in
the driveway, like breaking theglass.
And my dad had to go out and belike, uh, dude, I'm a police
officer.
Get out of here.
Yeah.
So just like crazy.
It was just interesting forsure.
Did you still live at home whileyou were going through college?
Um, so I, yeah.

(15:44):
I did at this time.
So I went away to college and Ionly lasted a semester.
Too much trauma, too much stuff.
Like I could not cope even justwith anything.
Cause then you're on your ownand so much time to be in your
head without what's familiar.
Yeah.
And like trying to, and I wasmaking straight A's, but I was
like partying and like trying toforget my feelings and you know,

(16:06):
just like what some people do.
And so I moved back home, um,and went to college back home
closer and stayed at home.
Yeah.
So then that's when I was datingthe abusive boyfriend.
What finally got you out of thatrelationship?
Um, really just like, you know,I was so broken and like, so

(16:26):
broke down, but I was terrifiedof him.
And like, like he punched a car,went and punched my car one
time.
And it looked like a deer hadhit it.
Like the dent was so big and Iwas just like terrified of him.
I was even scared to break upwith him, but I was like, my
dad's a plea.
Like I can, I have someprotection here.
Yeah.
So that helped for sure.
Um, but that was it just like,he broke me down so much that I

(16:47):
was like, uh, I've got to getout of here.
Yeah.
What am I doing?
Kind of like a wake up call oflike.
I'm just perpetuating likeeverything I don't want.
Yeah.
I'm perpetuating how I feelinside.
Yeah.
I felt it's like I wasn't enoughand I was perpetuating that.
Yeah.
I was with someone who didn'tthink I was enough and who was
on the outward side treating youhow you were already treating
yourself on the inside.
Yeah, totally.

(17:08):
Exactly.
That's huge though that you wereable to take a step back and
recognize that.
Yeah.
And also I'm glad that you hafelt like you had that safe.
Um, and then I met a boyfriendthat was Mormon and I joined the
Mormon church and, um, so yourparents weren't Mormon.

(17:32):
No.
Okay.
And I'm not anymore, but I was,I joined the church.
Um, and honestly, looking back,like one of the big reasons I
joined is I was looking forsomething, somewhere to fit in.
Right.
I wanted somebody to love me Iwas like, somebody please love
me, like love me for who I am.
And I got that, like, I amactually really thankful for the
church and what, like the partit played in my life for that

(17:53):
time, because it did bring me toNick and it brought me to like,
it brought me to my husband.
It brought me.
To where I'm at now.
Yeah.
So I'm really thankful.
How old were you when you?
I was 20 when I joined.
Yeah.
I will say, like, I have anappreciation for religion.
Religion played a big role in mylife as well.
And it served a purpose for atime.

(18:13):
And when I was done with it, Iwas done with it.
Yeah.
Um, and it, it wasn't that quickof me leaving, like I'm done.
Bye.
Yeah.
It was a whole process, but.
Same thing.
I have an appreciation for thepurpose that it served in my
life and the sense of communityand family that it provided for
me that I had never experiencedanywhere else.
Yes, exactly.
So when people say like theyjoin a church, especially later

(18:37):
in life, it's like, okay, it'sthat sense of community.
It's that family and acceptance.
And yeah, I totally get it.
Yeah, it was, it was like supercomforting.
And, um, It was that way untilit wasn't right.
Like eventually you hit like theceiling of like, actually now
it's constricting me instead ofhelping me grow where I was just
like anxious and didn't anyway,it doesn't matter.
But so then anyway, I met Nick,um, he had served a mission in

(19:02):
Idaho.
He's also a convert.
He joined in his twenties aswell.
Um, his family's Baptist.
And so they had a hard time withthat of course.
Um, so he joined and, um, Heserved a mission and there was a
missionary that was on hismission that came home to my
ward and was like, Hey, I metthis guy that has a really
similar story.
You should look him up.

(19:22):
So I did.
Nice.
And I looked him up on Facebook,Facebook dating.
That's our story.
Um, I just reached out and waslike, Hey, this Matt told me
that you were really cool.
Like let's be friends.
And I really was just trying tobe friends with them.
Yeah.
And it just progressed reallyfast.
Like he came to see me, we wereengaged three months later,
married three months after that,like Literally from six months

(19:45):
of meeting, we were married.
So wait, how long had you guysbeen talking before you met?
Like a couple of weeks.
Oh my gosh.
So basically like six and a halfmonths, seven months of first
conversation to marriage.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's fast.
It's so fast.
It's like the culture, right?
Like it was part of the, like,that's what we were told is

(20:06):
like, get married, have afamily, do this.
And so we did, we were like,okay, we'll do that.
Yeah.
Um, and looking back, I'mactually really thankful that we
did it that way, especiallycause we viewed marriage as
eternal.
And so it was like this thingthat we were never going to give
up.
And I honestly, like, I can'tsay, but I honestly don't know
if we would have stayed togetherif we wouldn't have had that
perspective.
So I'm so grateful for it, butwe got married and shit hit the

(20:28):
fan.
Like, I was suddenly safe.
Like he is so safe.
He's so amazing at like holdingspace for me and letting me have
my emotions.
And I was like, this is whatsafety feels like.
Well, let me let it all out.
Right.
Like so bad, but I just likevomited all my trauma, like all
over him.
He's like, Oh, okay.
He's been incredible, but it wasso hard because it was like,

(20:53):
Because right after I marriedhim is when my, I remembered my
sexual abuse.
Actually, I started having theseweird flashbacks and I was like,
what the, this did not happen.
What is this?
Yeah.
Literally.
I like, didn't believe it.
I was like, I made this up.
Like, what is this?
Was this a dream?
Like so crazy.
Yeah.
Um, So I actually contacted somepeople that were in my memories.

(21:13):
Um, and they've like put thevalid, validated, validated,
like what is that validity?
They validated that it happened.
Um, and then I went to atherapist and I was like, you
know, this, I've had thesememories pop up and she's like,
We talked a lot and she's like,no, it's real.
Like you are like havingphysical responses.
Like this is not, you can't fakethis stuff.

(21:35):
You wouldn't have these physicalresponses from a dream.
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Um, and so struggling with likeintimacy with my husband, like
not even wanting to be touched,like he would come up behind me
and I was like, Like in fight orflight all the time, because it
was like, it just came out ofnowhere, but it started making
sense.
I was like, okay, this is why Ifelt so weird in high school,

(21:56):
like so broken.
Like I knew there was somethingand I just kind of access it now
that I was finally safe with myhusband.
It was like, let's show you soyou can heal it.
And also.
In the moment, your body andyour brain were just keeping you
safe to block those out for solong.
Totally.
And now you were somewhere whereyou had a support that you,

(22:17):
your, your brain and your bodywere like, all right, here we
go.
Yeah.
Open the book.
Thank you.
Was not ready for that.
Sliding it across.
Yeah, totally.
Um, and it was really hard causea lot of people didn't believe
me.
Like a lot of family memberswere like.
You would have remembered.
It's too horrible.

(22:37):
Like you would have, there's noway you would have forgot that.
Just didn't understand.
They just didn't understand how,what was Nick's response?
Nick believed me a hundredpercent.
He was like, this makes so muchsense.
Like, yeah, it made so muchsense for our intimacy, for the
way I was with him, for me beinglike, Oh, I hate being touched.
I don't hate being touched.
But at the time I thought Ihated being touched because I
was like, Oh, So much trauma,like every time I would be

(23:00):
touched, it was like this traumaresponse.
And my body would like literallytense up and freeze.
And so just, he was amazing.
Um, but he was like, you need toget help.
Yeah.
Obviously.
This can't be all the time.
Yeah, totally.
And so I started going tocounseling, which was helpful,
but it only goes so far.
Right.
Talking about what you wentthrough only goes so far.
Right.
And so I always say I had thislike innate.

(23:23):
Like part of me that knew that Iwanted to like, be better.
And when I say be better at thetime, I didn't know any better.
And I was like constantlyseeking like something to help
me fix, fix myself.
Right now I know better.
Now I'm like, it's about likesitting in my body, sitting with
my feelings, letting myself feelthat slowing down, like all of
those things.
But at the time it was like,what's next?

(23:44):
What can I do?
What I was constantly lookingfor something to like fix.
Yeah.
Um, and that only goes so fartoo, because then you had a wall
and you're like, Oh.
I actually have to feel thisstuff.
Yeah.
It doesn't get to just be sweptunder the rug.
Exactly.
And I don't remember if it wasyou, I think it was you
actually, it might've beensomebody else of like, for
healing to happen, you can'tjust go around a topic or go

(24:06):
over a topic and, and say, blah,blah, blah happened.
I'm healed.
Yeah.
You have to truly, like yousaid, go through it and feel the
emotions.
The only way to heal is through.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's that's it.
Like I had so much anger, somuch anger and really it was
grief, but it presented itselfas anger.
Right.
And I was not allowing myself tofeel that, like it would come

(24:30):
out sometimes like the angerwould come out and Nick would be
the, Like the sad bystander ofthat.
Like I would scream at him andlike say her really horrible,
hurtful things because it waslike, this anger has to go
somewhere.
And it would just like bubbleand then just like come out.
Yeah.
Did he, do you think that herecognized that that's where it
was coming from?
So he's been incredible atknowing like he if you ask him,

(24:52):
he'll always say I saw who youwere deep down I knew that
wasn't you like I knew who youwere at your core.
Yeah, I just knew that wasn'tlike coming from who you are
It's just not in character foryou And I'm not an angry person
like that some of that doesn'teven mind some of that is
generational trauma for sureYeah, but yeah, he's been really
great at knowing the whole timeI think that's part of why we're
still together is because hegave me the benefit of the doubt

(25:14):
and he knew You That I could getthrough it.
He saw the true you.
Yeah, that's beautiful.
I love that.
Yeah.
So you went through therapy andrealize that there was more,
you're grasping at differentthings.
What was the next step for you?
Um, so I did some like EMDR.
That was really hard for mebecause you have to have, well,
the one I went to, you had tohave specific memories and I
have so little memories of mychildhood.

(25:36):
It's just flashes.
It's just flashes and they'rereally minimal.
And she wanted like a lot ofinformation that I couldn't
give.
Yeah.
And so I felt a lot of timelike.
Almost like imposter syndrome oflike, do I have to make, like, I
don't know how to like tell youany more than I know, you know?
And so it was just kind ofuncomfortable.
Um, so I quit doing that.
I did like acupuncture.
I tried like literally if youname it, I've tried it.

(25:58):
Yeah.
And then what has been the mosthealing for me is like, Gentle
warrior.
Yeah.
Like having this community ofwomen that are safe, that love
me no matter what, that love memore when I tell them all the
shit about me, they're like,it's okay, we love you.
And I'm like, uh, you do.
And here's the thing that I loveabout that is it's not, I love

(26:19):
you because you're telling meall of the dirty, douchey
details of your past.
Please tell me more.
It's, I love you because you'rebeing so vulnerable and putting
yourself Through feeling allthose, um, feeling all those
emotions again and appreciatingwhat that's doing for you and
what that means as far as ifyou're willing to go through

(26:41):
that to grow, we're here to holdyou through that.
That's, I love that about thisgroup too.
It's so beautiful.
I think like, That's why I'm sopassionate about like helping
people tell stories is becauseit really is what heals.
Like it's what's changed myentire life.
Like having that group of womenbe like, actually, it's so
relatable.

(27:01):
You don't feel alone anymore.
I felt so alone.
Yeah.
And like, nobody gets this.
Like you're, you know, you getin like a victim mindset of
like, I'm so alone.
Nobody understands us.
Nobody's been through what I'vebeen through.
Like, yeah.
And then you meet all thesepeople and they tell their
stories and you're like, Oh mygosh, like you're incredible.
Yeah.
You know, it just gives you adifferent perspective on
humanity.
And then it gives you adifferent perspective on

(27:21):
yourself where you're like,actually I am badass.
Yeah.
I did get through this, youknow?
Well, and I, it's not, I thinkin the past when I have opened
up to friends.
Um, and they were beingsupportive in the way that they
knew how to be supportive, whichI love and appreciate.
But the difference is they'renot blowing smoke up your ass
and they're not telling you thatyou, Oh, you're the victim.

(27:44):
You're the victim.
You're the victim.
They're a shit bag, blah, blah,blah, blah, whatever.
They're very honest about it ofrecognizing like the emotions,
the actions and helping you see.
The other perspective of whatwas the other person feeling and
going through and learning tohave appreciation for different

(28:06):
parts of it.
It's just this full, allencompassing growth and a
different version of support.
Yeah.
And it's so badass because it'slike, To heal, you have to like
see your part in it.
Like you have to know the partyou created in your story.
And I've never been able to seethat until I had all these women
be like, let me be a mirror foryou.

(28:26):
Let me be a safe place where ifyou're feeling triggered, let's
talk about it.
Yeah.
Let's not hide.
Let's not like, Be really sweetand like catty, like mean, catty
talk about the person bad.
Like, let's actually look atyour part in it and let's talk
about that and see where we canget, and it's gotten me so deep.
Yes.
I'm like, Whoa, I did not know Icould go this deep.

(28:47):
Well, touching on that,actually.
So at the last retreat that wehad, one of the girls, I was
kind of nervous to be herroommate because I had all of
these emotions about, Oh mygosh, she's been growing so much
and she's.
vocal about it and everything.
And I don't know, just very.
Some insecurities and someirritation that I didn't

(29:08):
understand.
And the first night she's like,Amber, can I be honest with you?
I was like, yeah, she's like,you trigger the fuck out of me.
And I was like, me, you're like,save me, save me.
And it was so cool that she tookthat first step.
Cause like we talked about, itjust takes someone taking the
first step.
Right.

(29:29):
And, um, her taking that firststep and being vulnerable with
me and telling me how she felt.
Gave me the permission withinmyself to be like, actually, I
feel the same way.
And here's why.
And in any other situation, ifsomebody would have been like, I
don't like you, it would havebeen one left at that.
Yeah.
Nobody would have been feelingout why or figuring out their
emotions around it.

(29:50):
But then it was like, let's,let's dive in.
Let's figure this out together.
Yeah.
It was so cool.
And then the rest of theweekend, every time we'd come
back to our room, we'd be like,I just realized something else
about it.
And then when someone said this,and it ties into what we were
saying and how cool is this?
And it was just such a bondingexperience.
It made coming back to our room.
It was like a whole extraretreat.

(30:12):
Yeah.
That's so cool.
It was really cool.
That is way cool.
But again, another thing that Ilove about these friends is that
we're willing to like look ateach other and say, Hey, this is
hard.
Yeah.
Let's talk about it.
Yeah.
And I think that's, what'smissing from most friendships or
relationships is like, it'seasier to people, please.
It's easier to pretend likeeverything's okay, but there's

(30:34):
no growth there.
There's no healing there.
There's no like deep connectionthere.
Yeah.
And the deep connection comesfrom the hard work of looking at
each other and being like, youtrigger me.
Oh, let's talk about that.
You know, it's so bad.
Let's figure out why I feel thisway.
Yeah.
So that's totally changed mylife is having that circle of
people that I know I can counton and that love me anyway.

(30:55):
It taught me to love myselfanyway.
Yeah.
Like they loved me and held mebefore I knew how to love me or
hold my myself, you know?
Yeah.
Gave you that permission, Iguess you could say.
Totally.
Um, what has it been like, sonow you've had those memories,
you're working through how toprocess some of those.
How has that And I remember yousaid that some people didn't

(31:18):
believe you in the beginning.
How has this affected yourrelationships with either the
people who were involved orwhere you had conflict?
Cause it's been a little whilesince you've realized all that.
Um, it's been off and on.
Um, I think people can only meetyou where they're at.
And so I have great, I givegrace in that.

(31:39):
Like I understand that peopleare only Can only meet you where
they're at.
Mm hmm.
And so I truly try to havecompassion for that and
understand that like theyweren't there They didn't go
through what I went through theydon't understand like the the
flashbacks or the feelings thatI have and so I really try to
just like I I can I can feellike the disappointment and the

(32:02):
sadness and all the things thatI that I'm allowed to feel for
them not Believing or notunderstanding but then I can
also be like, okay You Like,that's okay.
That's where you're at.
You know?
Well, and they haven't, I thinkone thing for me that I've
learned, especially like with mymom, with my dad, with anybody
else, that's part of my story,where in the beginning I was so

(32:23):
angry towards is like you said,they can only meet me where
they're at and realizing like,I've been doing a lot of work.
Yeah.
It makes sense why I can havepeace with this, or I can.
Brought, walk through this orhave this perspective.
Yeah.
They haven't been doing the workthat I've been doing.
Yeah.
So it, like you said, wherethey're at, it makes sense.

(32:44):
I can have grace for the factthat it's like when you're in.
A senior in high school.
You can't be mad that a fourthgrader doesn't know the math
that you know.
Yeah, exactly.
They haven't learned it yet.
It's like, and it's really cool.
I think Taryn taught us thisperspective.
I know Taryn taught us thisperspective of like, and I truly
believe in my soul that this istrue, that my mom.

(33:05):
Like came to earth knowing shewould be the villain in my story
Like I think and she was for along time like I don't blame her
anymore But I I did for a reallylong time.
It was easy to be like you hurtme.
Yeah, right?
You're the one who was supposedto take care of me, right?
It's easy to do that.
But then there's another sidewhere you can step back and be
like actually I truly believelike she knew that she was

(33:26):
coming here to teach me what shetaught me.
And I truly believe that I'm whoI am because of that.
And I'm so thankful.
Yeah.
And what a fucking empoweringplace to be.
Yeah.
Sorry for that.
But like, it's so empowering tobe like, actually I had a part
in this or I learned and I amwho I am because of it.

(33:46):
And I, it just, it changes thescript.
Yeah.
And also I think for me, I thinkbecause there was a point where.
Again, I talk mostly about mymom and also with my real dad,
which is, I actually had somehuge processes about that this
last weekend.
Um, of just being so angry atthem.
And at one point being angryserved me and I could see the

(34:11):
beauty in that anger.
And then through some work, Iwas able to switch it and see
the actual beauty.
Yeah.
And see them as a person.
I love that.
Um, and have some grace andperspective of like Dude, you
were a kid.
Yeah, and you were just likeTrying to do the best that you

(34:33):
could for the family you hadwith the tools that you had.
Yeah, and I It's not fair for meto hold Hold it against you that
you didn't even have the toolsthat I have Yeah, so why should
I expect you to handle thingsthe way that I would exactly?
And that's where we fall short.
Right.
Is when we expect people there'sexpectations and it's cool.
Cause it's, this is parts work.

(34:54):
It's like, we have all theseprotective parts.
Anger is one of them that hasserved us.
It's kept us alive.
It's kept us safe.
It's kept us functioning.
And then when it doesn't serveus anymore, then it's like,
okay, that's a protective part.
Let's see what it's hiding.
Like there's a wounded part too,that it's protecting that we
have to dig into.
Yeah.
And that's been really beautifultoo.

(35:14):
I love that.
For me, like breathwork has beenhuge.
I don't know about for you, butlike breathwork allows me to
like tap in.
And when I'm in like thatmeditative state, I can like tap
in and I have released so muchemotion and breathwork.
Like it is insane.
It just blows me away everytime.
I think for me, breathwork,especially in the beginning, it

(35:36):
was just a I didn't know what Ididn't know.
Right.
Yeah.
And so in the beginning, breathwork was like, okay, this is
kind of helping me.
And the more work that I'vedone, it's like, it peels back
more layers every time.
And it's been wild because likeyou said, it's like, it pulls
back that anger and shows youthe underlying what's really
there.
What was really going on.
Totally.

(35:56):
It's.
Do breathwork, everybody do it.
Also, I've never shared thisbefore, like in public, but, um,
my first breathwork session waswith Jen at the gentle warrior
thing.
And it was the, like, so insane.
I was like, Oh my gosh, I'vealways hated the color red.
I don't have no idea why.

(36:18):
Um, and in the breathwork, Irealized the person that
sexually abused me was wearingred the first time.
But what's crazy is I releasedthat.
And like, I felt that like theanger and the, like the emotion
and the grief and stuff behindthat releasing.
And when we opened our eyes, Jenhad turned the color, the
candles red.
I was like, are you kidding me?
That gives me full body chills.

(36:40):
Yeah.
And ever since I'm like,breathwork is my thing.
Like it's my jam.
Yeah.
It's definitely something thathelps me a ton for sure.
That's magic.
I'm pretty passionate about gofind a breathwork facilitator.
And the cool thing about it is,um, people make jokes about like
everybody's doing breathwork,but what's great is every person
is so different.
I've been, I've done breathworkwith people who use the same

(37:02):
breath pattern, Yeah.
But the person.
Facilitating.
Oh my gosh.
It's so different.
It's always a differentexperience.
It's so crazy.
Every single time.
Or even if you go to the sameperson.
Yeah.
I have done breath work with,um, Jed Elton so many times and
every, yeah, every experiencehas been a different one.

(37:24):
Yeah.
It's so wild.
I had one breath work sessionwhere I was just having a really
emotional day.
Um, and I had invited a bunch offriends to go and they had all
flaked out.
And so like, I almost didn't gocause I didn't want to go alone.
And the last minute I text oneof my friends that I hadn't
talked to in a little while, Iwas like, Hey, do you want to go
to this with me?
And she was like, yeah, thatsounds great.
And so I was glad I just didn'thave to go alone.

(37:45):
Yeah.
But I knew I needed to go.
And so I went and it wassomebody I'd never done breath
work before.
I'd had maybe two conversationswith her and it was wild.
I was, it was the most bodybuzzy feeling and I was like

(38:06):
sobbing one minute.
And I was basically, the longand short of it is I, Had had a
lot of confusion about actuallythis podcast.
I was super in my head about itand I had recorded one, my first
episode, and I was just going soback and forth and trying to get
everybody's input about it andrealizing that breathwork

(38:27):
session made me realize that howmuch power I truly carried
within myself and that I neededto do what was right for me.
And in the beginning, when I wasstarting this podcast, it was
about.
What's it going to accomplish?
Am I going to have enoughfollowers?
Are people really going tolisten?
What are people going to think?
And I was caring so much aboutthe outward thing.

(38:48):
Um, am I going to be, am Itrying to be famous?
What am I trying to accomplishwith this?
You know?
And after that, it was like, no,I'm not doing this for anybody
else.
I'm doing this for me becauseit's been, and I've realized
that more and more with eachepisode of how freeing it is to
tell my story and how, healthyit's been for me and hearing

(39:10):
other people's perspective.
Like for me, being able to hearother people's story is just me
like soaking in what they've,their growth.
And the fact that I know thatit'll help other people is a
bonus.
Totally.
So it's like, it sounds selfish,but it's like, that's, what's
helped me.
No, I love that.
That's great.
So I love that.
You know what it's doing and.

(39:31):
And I love that you like staytrue to yourself and breathwork
helped you get there.
Like, yeah, that's why it's socool is like, we do get in our
head, right?
We live our lives in our mind.
Like that's how we're taught.
Like that's what society we livein.
Like hustle, hustle, hustle.
Yeah.
Think about everything you'redoing.
Like, but really the magic isdropping into your body and
feeling what's here.

(39:51):
Yeah.
Not what's here.
Exactly.
You know?
Yeah, for sure.
And also, It's easy to say,yeah, I felt sad, I felt the
emotion, I felt it, but toreally like sit in it and
understand it totally differentthan just saying I felt sad.
Yeah, exactly.
Like clearly I felt sad.
I was crying.
Yeah.

(40:12):
Everybody can see that.
Yeah.
But yeah, to, to sit in emotion,to truly understand it, where is
that coming from?
And like you said, how, Anger isjust the surface emotion and how
there can be so many otherthings.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It always goes deeper.
Yeah And that's, what's coolabout the work is like, there's
always more, there's alwaysdeeper.

(40:32):
And now I know it's not chasingafter the next thing that's
going to fix me.
Like I am perfect the way I am,but it's like learning that I
can love myself for exactly whoI am with all of my messy, dark
shadow, yucky stuff.
Like it's about becoming who Ireally am and unbecoming all the
things I've been taught that Iam.
Right.

(40:52):
Defining that for yourself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What has that, so you'vementioned that like Nick's been
super supportive throughout allof this and with you on your
growth journey, how has thataffected your relationship?
Like, so from, for me, um, Benwas the one to start growing and
then to challenge me to alsotake action.

(41:13):
Yeah.
Um, Um, and in the beginning Iwas very much like, Oh, that's
great for you.
I'm happy for you.
Sure.
I'll print out and help you makeyour meal plans and stuff.
Whatever.
I'm fine.
Yeah, totally.
Um, and then realizing like Ihad so much to heal on my own.
What, um, how has that been forNick while you're going through
all of this healing?
And I love this question.

(41:35):
Um, he'll be the first to tellyou that he blamed everything on
me.
Like he, and he'll say that,like, I thought Ashley was the
problem because she had so muchshit like that she brought, you
know?
And so he was like, he, hisviewpoint was like, once Ashley
like starts to fix her stuff andlike feel her emotions and heal
her stuff, like it'll be great.
Yeah.
And then he quickly realizedlike, Oh shit.

(41:56):
Ashley's done this for a longtime.
Like she's actually been tryingto heal for a really long time.
And I have shit too.
Yeah.
Um, and that's been really cool.
What's been really cool for meis like, control is huge for me,
like letting go of control.
Um, it's a thing that we thinkkeeps us safe.
Right.
But it doesn't at all.
Yeah.
But it's this thing that we likedo that we think, Oh, we're
protected because we're incontrol.
Yeah.

(42:16):
And so for me, it was like, Iwanted him so badly to join me
because I wanted to control whatthat looked like.
And for him, like.
He's not going to do something.
Cause I want him to like, that'sjust not who he is.
And I love that about him.
Well, and I think that's truefor so many people.
It's sometimes to the pointwhere Ben would do the opposite.
Oh yeah, exactly.
Ben would be like, we should dothis, this, and this.

(42:37):
And I'd be like, how about now?
Yeah.
I don't want to do that becausehe said so.
Exactly.
Like there's just a little bitof defiance, right.
Which is totally fair.
Yeah.
Um, so once I surrendered thecontrol.
And I just like had noexpectations.
And I was like, I'll just keepgoing.
And whatever that looks likethere were times where it was
really hard, where we werereally uncomfortable.
Cause I was like in this totallydifferent place than he was.

(42:59):
And it caused a lot of likefighting and like insecurity and
just them things that would comeup.
And so once I realized like, Idon't have to be in control.
And I surrendered that and Ijust let him be where he was.
He jumped right in, likefollowed right behind me, you
know?
And so he's been on his own.
Amazing journey.
He's been very vulnerable on hisInstagram and like all of the

(43:21):
struggles that he struggleswith.
And it's been beautiful.
I'm so proud of him.
Well, and I think that it'spowerful that he has seen the
example that you've set of thethings you've been vulnerable
with.
And.
Cause it's not like, it's notlike you have, Oh, I, I was
insecure about my body and I'mnot minimizing any of these

(43:42):
things, but the stuff that youwere going through, going
through, working through, yeah,sitting in, sitting in were so
heavy and the bravery behindthat.
And the fact that you could seethe bigger picture and see the
light at the end of the tunnelof that.
Yeah.

(44:03):
I think sets such a huge exampleof like, okay, she can sit in
this heavy shit.
I think I can do it too with myheavy shit.
Yeah.
I do give him credit though,because I wouldn't have been
able to sit in the heavy shitwithout him.
Like he's a huge part of that.
He's the first person I've everfelt safe with.
Yeah.
I have a tattoo on my arm of hishandwriting that says I'll keep
you safe because he literally isthe first person I've felt

(44:24):
totally safe with.
I love that.
Yeah.
Of giving you permission and.
Yeah.
Maybe he didn't want to look athis own stuff, but he was
willing to let me look at mineand sit in that.
And that's beautiful too.
Yes.
Cause now he is looking at hisstuff.
Yeah.
Well, and how cool is it thatlike he was able to provide that
for you and now you get to alsobe that safe space for him and
now that you're both growing,you're just, it's just this

(44:47):
continual cycle of let's holdeach other and be each other's
safe space.
And that's what a relationshipshould be.
It's hard as hell, but it's whatit is.
Like you don't have to be in thesame spot.
It's not like I'm better thanyou.
I'm ahead of, like, none of thatmatters.
It's like showing up when theother person needs you.
Exactly.
And that's it.
Yeah.

(45:08):
Um, it's funny that you saythat.
Cause that's exactly how mineand Ben's thing was, was like,
he started his growth journeyand there was a level.
There was a point in time whereI felt I could feel him being.
It wasn't as simple as like, hehas a meal plan.
He's going to the gym more andhe's setting goals of what he
wants our future to be like.
It was, I could see him becominga better person, uh, like a

(45:29):
better version of himself.
And I loved it.
And it was scary because I gotscared the shit out of you.
Yeah.
Cause I was like he was inspaces with other people who
were doing the same thing as himstriving to just be better and
grow.
And I could feel, okay, I am notdoing that.
And I just felt this insecurityof like, what if he goes for

(45:52):
somebody who is doing that?
And Ben is not a person that Iwould ever, ever suspect of
like, or having any type ofthoughts about any other person.
But I just knew that I wasn'tdoing what he was doing.
Oh yeah.
And security is totally valid.
Oh yeah.
And he challenged me.
So before he proposed, he said,I'm on this growth journey.

(46:13):
I want you to be growing too.
The fact of the matter is.
If you're not growing, you'regoing to get left behind and I
don't want to leave you behind.
So you need to be doingsomething.
It doesn't have to be the samething.
It doesn't have to be at thesame pace as me, but you have to
be doing something if this isgoing to work.
And I want it to work.

(46:33):
Yeah.
And for me, I was like, yeah, metoo.
I want it to work.
Challenge accepted.
How beautiful.
And the, I love that you gave mepermission of, it doesn't have
to be at the same pace.
It doesn't have to be the samething.
You just have to be doingsomething.
And the fact that he had gonefirst gave me something to
follow because I didn't know howto do that.
Yeah.
And that's what likerelationships, like you said,

(46:55):
are, it's like helping somebodybecome the best version of
themselves.
It's like challenging somebody.
It's not what we talked aboutwith our friendships.
Like it's not people pleasing.
It's not saying you're perfectwhere you're at.
It's saying like, actually,there's some stuff you need to
look at here.
Let's help you become who youwant to be.
Exactly.
That.
Okay.
Let's talk about that for asecond.
Because, um, I love that we loveeach other for where we are and

(47:19):
also say, but that's not whereyou need to stay.
Don't stay there.
Yeah.
And it's not like a, um, you'refucked up, please fix it.
It's a, okay, what are we goingto do?
What's our, what's our plan tofix this?
Yeah.
And it's like, I'll let you sitthere as long as you need to,
but then we're going to get upand move.
Exactly.
There's going to be action afterthis.
Yeah, totally.

(47:40):
That's yeah, and I think thatthat's great that we have that
in our spouses Which is like themost important thing.
Yeah, but also that we have afriend group That's supporting
us through that as well.
Yeah So beautiful.
It is really beautiful.
I'm like so thankful for that.
Um What else was I gonna say?
There was another thing that yousaid a little bit back that I
wanted to touch back on um Idon't remember what it was It's

(48:06):
gone.
It's okay.
Um, how do you think, so nowthat I've kind of mentioned this
before, but I wanna come at itfrom a different angle.
Um, like with your relationshipwith your mom.
Mm-Hmm.
Do you feel like, I'll put ithow I've experienced it in the
beginning when I was growing,and of course there's been.

(48:27):
Levels to this, right.
I've like in the beginning I wasvery angry and felt like I
needed to put her in her placeand how she accepted that.
And of course she has a lot ofguilt.
And so she feels like, I thinkmy mom honestly sometimes feels
like I should scream and yell ather because she feels like
that's what she deserves.
Yeah.
Um, and I don't, I mean, if Iwas a mom, if I was a mom, I am

(48:50):
a mom.
I just think, I don't know.
I just put myself in her shoesof.
I can understand why she feelsthat way.
You, you set the bar of what youshould be as a mom and how you
want to raise your kids.
And when you feel like youfailed that, I mean, there are
times on a daily basis where Igo to bed and I'm just like, I
shouldn't have yelled at my kidstoday.
I should be better.

(49:10):
Yeah.
And you just feel so sad andthis little kid and they deserve
better than that.
And, but so there have beenlevels of like where I'm
processing through things andwhere my mom has met me.
And it's really cool as I'mgrowing to see how that's
affecting my mom and how ourconversations are changing.

(49:34):
And even this morning, just likethe conversation that we were
able to have was so differentaround this podcast was so
different than what we wouldhave had a month ago, two months
ago, a year ago, especially.
So do you feel like, can you seeany of that?
affecting your relationship withyour mom, your family, and how

(49:55):
your conversations have beenchanging.
I know you mentioned that theywere angry and didn't believe
you in the beginning, but whatis that like now?
Yeah.
So I do see the difference.
Like there is, once you stepinto Like your power and you
take back, like you say, okay, Ihad a part in this.
Like once I'm willing to takeresponsibility for my part in it
too.
I think that allows the otherperson to drop their guard down

(50:16):
a little bit where my momdoesn't feel like I'm blaming
her.
Um, we've had a really beautifulconversation recently, um, where
she did say, like, I'm reallysorry.
I do feel guilty.
I feel like, um, you think I,um, failed you or I never
measured up.
I'm like, Ooh.
I know that feeling.

(50:37):
Yeah.
I've had that feeling of notmeasuring up and not being
enough and I don't want her tofeel that way, um, especially
with, so I just told her like,actually, I love you and like, I
think you really did the bestwith the tools you had and I
mean that and, um, I don't faultyou for the things you didn't
know.
Like you only know what youknow.
Exactly.
And so we had a beautifulconversation where she was able

(50:58):
to say like, I'm really sorry.
And I was able to say, I'mactually really proud of you and
I love you.
And it's okay that thishappened.
And I actually do think youmeasured up as a mom.
I think you did exactly what youwere supposed to do when you
came here.
Yeah.
Like what a beautifulconversation that would have
never happened even a month ago.
Yeah.
It's just constantly changing.
Right.
The more we like allow ourselvesto give ourselves permission to

(51:22):
be vulnerable.
Like we've talked about theother person feels like they can
be too.
Like, I don't know if she wouldhave ever told me like, I feel
like I'm not measuring upbecause there were layers where
I would get angry.
We would yell at each other.
I'm just as guilty of yelling ather as she is at me.
Like that was what my copingmechanism, like I would scream
at her in high school when shewould yell at me.

(51:42):
Like it was this like battle.
Yeah.
And so, um, yeah, I just thinkthere's layers and I think the
more that we grow and the morethat we learn to be vulnerable
and like, Have no expectations.
That's been a huge one is like,I don't need to have
expectations on her.
She's going to show up exactlyhow she knows how, and that
should be good enough for me.
Yeah.
You know?
Well, I think that it goes, Ilove that you said that because

(52:04):
I think that it goes both way oflike, if we're wanting to show
up vulnerable, vulnerable.
That's a hard word.
Vulnerable.
As ourselves and wanting othersto hold space for that, wanting
to create an atmosphere.
For that, then we also need tobe that for other people.
Exactly.
Especially something I heard along time ago was like, it's,

(52:28):
it's wild how we can have somuch patience and be so loving
for people outside of our familythat we don't know a stranger.
If you know the way that they'reacting, Oh, it's okay.
You're fine.
Our friends.
But then when it comes to ourfamily, how impatient we are and
how we hold them to such ahigher standard.
And.

(52:48):
It, I mean, it just goes all theway around with our friends and
with our family.
We just need to provide for themwhat has been provided for us of
that patience.
And it goes back to the victimmentality, right?
Of like, it's easy to be thevictim.
It's easy to blame and be like,But that, you don't heal, you
don't grow, nothing happensthere except for resentment and

(53:09):
anger and things that you don'twant.
And so it's, yeah.
Yeah.
And when you're in the victimmindset, you're giving all of
your power away.
All of it.
It's, you no longer have controlof how you're healing, how
you're processing your emotionsaround a situation.
You're literally saying, I'mhurt and I'm letting everybody
else decide.

(53:31):
How I feel, but when one has totippy toe around me, yes.
And when you're able to takecontrol of the situation and
realize, well, actually, likeyou said, honoring the part that
you played.
And I think what's important toclarify about that.
Um, I had Catherine on mypodcast a while ago.
It was actually my secondepisode where she like really
explained about like owning yourpart of it.

(53:52):
And it doesn't mean that you'reI caused this to happen, but I
was in the room, right?
I was there.
All you have to own.
Exactly.
Like I was talking to herspecifically at the retreat
about my sexual abuse.
I'm like, how do I own that?
Like as a child, how do I own,she's like, you don't have to
own that.
You have to own that you werethere and that you learned
something from it.
Exactly.
I'm like, Oh, I can do that.

(54:13):
Yeah.
I can own that.
I was in the room and that Iactually taught me huge lessons
in my life.
Yes.
And I'm who I am because of it.
Exactly.
And that, and that's the firststep to opening the door to so
many other levels of.
Of growth and, and learning thelessons from it.
Yeah.
The other thing I wanted to talkabout too, that you mentioned is

(54:33):
expectations of like how we'rehaving, we can have expectations
of ourself, we can haveexpectations of a situation, but
especially when we're havingexpectations of another person
and how that is a level ofcontrol.
Yeah, totally.
Of like, I expect that when Itell you this, that hurt me,
that you did, you should tell mesorry.
Mm hmm.
And.
You should react this way andtreat me this way.

(54:54):
Yeah.
All those expectations is a formof control and manipulation of
like, I, and when I saymanipulate, manipulate, Oh,
can't even say it now.
Manipulation.
It's not like I'm manipulatingyou.
It's I'm trying to mold.
Yeah.
This situation into this perfectthing that I want it to be.
And the reality is that's nothow it's going to be.

(55:15):
No.
And really you're just settingyourself up for disappointment.
And you're avoiding yourfeelings in that situation,
right?
If we're having expectations onsomeone, if I'm expecting
someone to show up in my life acertain way, and then they
don't.
Because they're human and theydon't have to show up anyway.
And they have their own process.
They have their own stuff goingon.
Like if I expect someone to showup and then they don't, and I'm
disappointed, I'm back in victimand I'm back in avoidance.

(55:38):
I'm not, I'm avoiding everythingI feel because I'm blaming the
other person.
You didn't show up the way Iexpected you to.
Yep.
That's bullshit.
Exactly.
Like you didn't have to show upin any way.
Yeah, there's no expectationsthere.
There shouldn't be anyway.
Yeah, you know, well, and Ithink that that's realizing you
can only control so much Yeah,you can control yourself.
Yeah, so I like the idea of andben and I have talked about this

(55:58):
of like They made me feel hurt.
They made me feel so sad Didthey make you feel that way
chose to feel that way exactlyof like taking ownership of your
own feelings?
What they did had an effect onme.
Yeah Um, but I chose the emotionaround it.
And that's hard for people tohear, right?
It's hard to be like, Oh shit, Ichose that.
Yeah.
Like I actually chose to feelthat way.

(56:19):
Yeah.
But it's the truth.
It is.
It's the hard truth.
I had a conversation withsomebody a couple of years ago
where, um, I said something thatreally offended her.
And.
I apologize.
Of course it was over text,which is like the worst way to
have a conversation.
Um, and I apologize for it.
And she would just like, keptgoing of like how it hurt her.

(56:41):
And finally I was like, listen,I've apologized three times in
this conversation.
I will take ownership for mywords.
I'm not going to take ownershipfor the emotions you felt.
Yeah.
So I am sorry for my words, butyou're the one who chose to feel
that way.
And she came back with, Oh,gaslighting much?
Mmm.
Ugh.
You're like, no, that's not whatI'm doing.

(57:02):
Dude, I had like tunnel visionanger.
Yeah.
Because I was like, are youkidding me?
Ugh.
For anybody that knows me,that's like the last thing I
would ever want to do tosomebody.
And so that, this was someonewho was supposed to be my friend
and supposed to know me and, andknew some of my story.
Yeah.
And so, uh, I felt like, youknow, me and you're still using
that word against me.

(57:24):
And so I had to like sleep onit.
And the next day I messaged herback and I was like, you know
what I realized?
Um, a friend wouldn't talk to methat way.
And I love you and I hope youhave an amazing life, but I
don't think that there's muchpoint of us continuing this
friendship and so like, I wishyou all the best.
Yeah.
Bye.
Um, but it was interesting how.

(57:47):
I was taking ownership for mypart and saying, I didn't make
you feel any sort of way and howoffensive that is to somebody.
Especially like, I don't know ifyou listened to my marriage
podcast, but speaking fromwounds, like, yeah, that's what
that is.
Right.
It's like she has this wound andshe's speaking from it and she
can't see.
Like rationally, she's emotionaland she's like saying something

(58:09):
that is really hurtful that shesurely probably didn't really
believe about you.
She knew you weren't gaslightingher, but she used that.
And so it's just hard because wedo like speak from wounds a lot
and it's like, Learning torecognize that before you even
speak it, right?
Like instead of having areaction, yes.
Instead of like talking, sayingyou hurt my feelings.

(58:29):
Cause you, it's like sitting inthat, well, why did that hurt my
feelings?
Like it's taking ownership.
It's like boundaries on yourselfof like, I actually don't need
to reach out to someone thathurt my feelings.
If I'm able to takeresponsibility for why my
feelings are hurt.
Yes.
They didn't do anything.
Like maybe they hurt.
Like maybe there is some type ofownership they can take and say,
sorry.
And that's great.
But like, ultimately it's on meto figure out why that hurt my

(58:52):
feelings.
Cause there's always a woundthere.
Yeah.
Always.
And it goes both ways of like,even if I did say something that
hurt her feelings, why did I saythat?
Yeah.
Because.
I probably said it knowing itwould hurt her feelings.
So then going into, okay, whydid I feel the need to say that?
Why did I feel the need to takea jab?
Why did I, and backtracking oflike, what's really going on

(59:15):
here and seeing the biggerpicture within yourself of
that's taking ownership.
It is.
And you don't have to takeownership of someone else's
feelings, but you can takeownership of your part in it.
Like there's a difference.
Exactly.
Yeah.
100%.
So one other thing I did want toask you, um, okay.
Two parts.
Yeah.
One, for someone who is goingthrough the things that you went

(59:39):
through, the abuse, the abusiverelationship being, um, finally
feeling safe and remembering allof that stuff.
And, um, Um, and that journey ofhealing, what's something that
would have helped you to heargoing through that?
Or what's something that you'dlike to tell somebody that might
help them going through that?
Um, I think it begins with likeloving yourself.

(01:00:05):
I would, if I could go back andtell myself, like, I would be
like, it's okay.
Like, it's going to get better.
Just hang on, like, loveyourself.
And it's hard to tell somebodyto love themselves.
Um, you can't make somebody lovethemselves, but I think like
reaching out, finding safepeople is so important.
Mm hmm.
Um, so if somebody's goingthrough that, I would tell them

(01:00:25):
to reach out to somebody.
Um, find some, somebody safe,even if it's just one person,
because literally it will, itcan change your life.
Like having somebody safe thatyou can.
Process with and feel throughand that will hold that space
for you.
It's life changing.
Yeah.
Huge.
What do you, what does lovingyourself look like to you?
Cause I mean, some people wouldbe like, yeah, I love myself.

(01:00:47):
I like my hair.
Um, and some people lovingyourself or self love is taking
a bubble bath.
But what does that mean to you?
Self love to me?
I think it looks different allthe time.
Um, I think sometimes it istaking a bubble bath and then
sometimes it's talking aboutwhat's going on.
Like, what did I do wrong inthis situation?
Like, I literally, sometimesit's okay.
Tonight I need a bubble bath.

(01:01:07):
And then sometimes it's like,Hey, Nick, call me out.
Where are my blind spots?
Yeah.
Like, I think loving myself is,um, accepting where I'm at,
being proud of where I'm at andalso wanting to keep learning
and becoming the best version ofmyself.
I think that's what lovingmyself is.
I love that, that there's threeparts to it.
Accepting where you are, seeingwhere you've been and knowing

(01:01:28):
you want more.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's beautiful.
Thank you.
Mm-Hmm.
And the other thing I wanted todo is can we like give some
plugs to your, your, uh,clothing brand and your podcast
of where to find you?
Because I want people to listento it.
It's so beautiful.
Thank you so much.
So is yours.
Thank you.
Um, yeah.
My Instagram is at eighth WonderDesigns, um, an eight with TH

(01:01:51):
and then Wander Designs.
Um, and then the website iswww.eighthwonderdesigns.com.
And what's cool is if you go tothe Instagram, it has a link to
the website.
Yeah.
If you go to the website,there's a little spot right
there that says, listen to thepodcast.
So really it's like, you canfind everything.
Yeah.
There's a link to the podcast aswell on Instagram too.

(01:02:12):
Yeah.
That's what I meant.
Sorry.
Oh, you're good.
It's on both.
Okay, cool.
Right.
Um, and what's cool about it isthat, and you kind of mentioned
this before, but I somethingthat I really love is that your,
the t shirts are.
Designed like a collab with theperson that you had on the
podcast to represent theirstory.

(01:02:33):
Yeah.
So I, I send the story to my,the girl that draws, um, I send
her some like ideas of thingsI'm thinking.
She listens to the story.
Before I ever release it.
And she collabs with me on likewhat she thinks was the powerful
parts of their story.
And then we create a designaround it.
It's pretty cool.
I love it.
Yeah.
Well, cause it's not just like,here's a really cool podcast and

(01:02:56):
here's some pretty clothes.
Yeah.
There's like so much symbolismbehind it.
Like even your logo.
So it's a girl.
Um, from the back wearing a hat,which you always wear hats,
which is so beautiful.
And then, um, she has paintbrushes and flowers and they're
being held on by bandages, whichis, I'll have you explain.

(01:03:16):
Um, it just like signifieshelping people heal through like
creativity, through tellingtheir story.
Um, yeah, just like through arttoo, because I'm helping like
design something around theirstory and I want them to know
that their story matters and Iwant them to have something
tangible.
Um, and then I'm playing aroundwith the idea of like them

(01:03:37):
picking, um, a foundation todonate part of the proceeds to.
Oh, that would be awesome.
Yeah.
So I think we're going to dothat.
And just, I just love.
I love the vulnerability.
I love people's stories and Ithink giving them something
tangible shows them like, Hey,you matter.
This is important.
This is super important.
And that it's two, we'rechanging the world.
Yeah.

(01:03:59):
So beautiful.
Thank you so much for being onthis with me and sharing your
story and creating your own.
Thank you.
I appreciate you.
I love you.
I love you.
Hey, thanks for listening tothis episode.
If you liked what you heard,please remember to subscribe and
go leave a review on Applepodcast.
It helps me know what you wantto hear and who I should have as

(01:04:21):
a guest next.
Thanks again.
And until next time, keep livingthe life of a Lotus.