The Ethically Immoral Podcast

The Ethically Immoral Podcast

The Ethically Immoral Podcast is a program dedicated to long-form conversations with poets, spoken word artists, authors, and creatives who use language as a tool for truth-telling, healing, and resistance. Hosted by Mike Payne, the show travels beyond the typical interview to explore the personal histories, artistic philosophies, and cultural contexts that shape the voice of the Creatives we welcome. It’s not just about poetry or performance — it’s about the people behind the pen. We talk about identity, healing, joy, frustration, and the journey of becoming. Some moments are deep, others are funny, but all of them are authentic. If you’re someone who values storytelling, vulnerability, and good conversation, this space was created and cultivated for you.

Episodes

June 21, 2026 134 mins

In Volume Seven: Chapter Eight of the Program, we welcome Milwaukee, Wisconsin-born and based Writer, Poet, Storyteller, Author, Performance Poet, Teaching Artist, and Creative Change Agent Dasha Kelly. A former Milwaukee Poet Laureate and Wisconsin's first Black Poet Laureate, Dasha has spent decades building community through the power of story, imagination, and creative expression.

During our conversation, Dasha reflects on her e...

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 In Volume Seven: Chapter Seven of the podcast, we welcome Dunnville, Ontario-born and Toronto-based Writer, Author, and Poet Jennifer LoveGrove. Jennifer is the author of four full-length poetry collections and the novel Watch How We Walk, which was long-listed for the Giller Prize. Her poetry collection Beautiful Children with Pet Foxes was long-listed for the Raymond Souster Award, and her newest collection, The Tinder Sonn...

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 In Volume Seven: Chapter Six of The Program, we welcomed Boston-based Photographer, Poet, Writer, Philosopher, and Visual Artist, Steven Seidenberg. 

We discuss Steven’s newest poetry collection, Coda, his ongoing photographic work, including his exhibition at the John and Geraldine Lilley Museum of Art and the forthcoming photographic project Kanazawa Vacancy. In our conversation, Steven reflects on what it means t...

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 In Volume Seven: Chapter Five, Brenda Cárdenas joins the Program for a wide-ranging conversation about creativity, language, culture, visual art, and the experiences that shaped her voice as a writer and poet. A Milwaukee, Wisconsin born and based educator, essayist, and author, Brenda earned her undergraduate degree from the University of Wisconsin–Milwaukee, her teaching certification from the University of Wisconsin ...

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In Volume Seven: Chapter Three of the program, we welcome Bronx-born, New York City-based Writer, Performance Poet, Curator, and star of the one-woman show "The Long Way Home", Leah V. 

In our conversation, we trace her creative history—from writing poetry at seven, to studying musical theater, to finding her footing in New York’s spoken word scene.  We touch on her recent marriage and what it’s like bala...

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In Volume Seven: Chapter Three of the program, we welcomed Writer, Author, and Poet Irina Moga.  Her work has been nominated for the SFPA Rhysling Award and Best of the Net, and her collection Variations Without Palace was the 2022 winner of the Dina Sahyouni International Literary Prize. She’s the author of six collections, including her latest, Quantum, and is an active member of several literary organizations across C...

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In Volume Seven: Chapter Two of the podcast, we welcomed Vancouver-born, Quebec-based  Educator, Writer, Poet, and Author of the poetry collection Long Exposure, Stephanie Bolster.  

Stephanie is Professor of Creative Writing at Concordia University, earned her BFA and MFA from the University of British Columbia, and is the author of five poetry collections. 

In our conversation we discuss her creative beginnings&mdash...

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 In Volume Seven: Chapter One of the Program, we welcome Houston, Texas–born and based Educator, Playwright, Actress, Writer, Author, and Performance Poet Ebony Stewart. She is the 2017 Woman of the World Slam Champion, a three-time Austin Neo Soul Slam Champion, a B. Iden Payne Award recipient, and the David Mark Cohen New Play Award winner. She is also the author of four books, including her latest poetry collection Wa...

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In Volume Six: Chapter Twenty of the Program, we welcome Ontario-based Educator, Writer, Painter, Photographer, Author, and Poet Kathryn MacDonald. Our conversation explores the many ways creativity can intersect—through poetry, visual art, travel, and teaching—and how each discipline shapes the way an artist observes and responds to the world. 

Kathryn discusses her reputation as an ekphrastic writer, explaining ho...

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 In Volume Six: Chapter Nineteen of the Program, we welcome Durango, Mexico-born, Toronto-based Poet, Author, Curator, and Writer Maria Giesbrecht. She is a graduate of the post-graduate Creative Writing program at Humber College and the winner of the Jack McCarthy Book Prize and the Lesley Strutt Poetry Prize. Her work has also been recognized as a finalist for the Narrative Poetry Prize, a Best of Net nominee, and the runner...

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In Volume Six: Chapter Eighteen we welcome Educator, Poet, Writer and Author David Martin.

He earned his BA in English from the University of Calgary and his MA in English from the University of Alberta. His work has been widely recognized across Canada’s literary landscape — including winning the CBC Poetry Prize, receiving the Silver Award for Poetry from the Alberta Magazine Awards, and being shortlisted for the W.O. ...

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Our guest this week is a Scotland, United Kingdom–based writer, poet, playwright, and author. Kestral Gaian, who is the author of four books, including their most recent poetry collection, Tubelines: The Poetry of Motion, available now via their website and wherever books are sold. 

In our conversation, we trace Kestral’s parallel paths through creativity and technology — including a lengthy career in software...

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In Volume Six: Chapter Sixteen of The Program, we welcome Poet, Actor, Producer, Playwright, and Author of the new book Hair Me, Leslie Saint Julien. Making her third appearance on the podcast, Leslie returns to discuss the evolution of her personal and powerful stage project Hair Me: A Journey Through the Rich Tapestry of Black Hair and the book of the same name. 

In this wide-ranging and honest conversation, Leslie shares how...

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In Volume Six: Chapter Fifteen of The Program, we welcome Educator, Community Activist, Poet, Performance Poet, and Author Barbara Fant, who is making her third appearance on the podcast. 

Born in Youngstown, Ohio and now based in Los Angeles, Barbara is the author of three poetry collections Paint, Inside Out, Mouths of Garden, and her newest collection, Joy in the Belly of a Riot. For over a decade, she has led poetry worksho...

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 In Volume Six: Chapter Fourteen of The Program, we welcome Candace Marquez Green, a Chicago-born and Chicago-based community activist, entrepreneur, writer, poet, and author of the new poetry collection, "In Glimpses and Reminisces". Candace holds a Bachelor’s degree in Entertainment Business, a Master of Arts in Public Relations, and a Master of Business Administration. She is the recipient of the 2022 Chicago Defender...

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In Volume Six: Chapter Thirteen we welcome Amsterdam-born, Kingston Ontario-based Writer, Poet, Author, and EssayistSadiqa de Meijer. She is the author of two acclaimed poetry collections — Leaving Howe Island, finalist for both the Governor General’s Award for English-language Poetry and the Pat Lowther Memorial Award, and The Outer Wards, a finalist for the Raymond Souster Award. She is also the author of two nonficti...

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In Volume Six: Chapter Twelve of the Program, we welcomeMelissa Powless Day — a London, Ontario–based educator, writer, poet, and author. She serves as Chair for Western University’s Indigenous Writers Circle, is a Visiting Cultural Teacher for the London District Catholic School Board, and is currently completing her PhD in Indigenous Education at Western University. A Pushcart Prize nominee, she’s the auth...

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In Volume Six: Chapter Eleven of The Program, we welcome a Hamilton, Ontario–based educator, writer, poet, essayist, composer, and musician Gary Barwin. With a BFA and BA from York University and a PhD in Music Composition from SUNY Buffalo, Barwin has built a career that refuses to stay in one lane. He’s the author of more than thirty books and chapbooks—including Yiddish for Pirates, winner of the 2017 Stephen L...

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 In Volume Six, Chapter Ten we welcomed Hoboken, New Jersey–based educator, poet, writer, and author Isabella DeSendi.

 A 2024 Pushcart Prize nominee, 2024 Ruth Lilly Fellowship finalist, 2024 Best New Poets selection, and 2025 New Jersey Fellowship finalist, Isabella earned her MFA from Columbia University. Her 2020 chapbook Through the New Body won the Poetry Society of America’s Chapbook Fellowship, and her ...

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In Volume Six: Chapter Nine, we welcome Dr. Irène Mathieu — a Washington, D.C.–born, Virginia-based pediatrician, educator, researcher, and award-winning poet. She earned her BA in International Relations from the College of William & Mary, her MD from Vanderbilt University, and a Master’s in Public Health from Johns Hopkins. Today she serves as Associate Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Virginia, ...

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