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Did you know that the JFK assassination is still shrouded in mystery and controversy, decades after that fateful November day? Join us as we unravel the intricate web of events from Lee Harvey Oswald's enigmatic arrival at the Texas School Book Depository to the split-second decisions that forever altered history in Dealey Plaza. Our detailed recounting provides a gripping, minute-by-minute narrative of President Kennedy's final moments and the unsettling shifts in security protocols and public sentiment leading up to the tragedy.
The aftermath of Kennedy's assassination was a whirlwind of confusion and emotional turmoil. We bring you into the heart of that chaos, as journalist Dan Rather stumbled upon the breaking news at Parkland Hospital and the conflicting reports of Oswald’s movements emerged. Hear about the eerie resemblance between Officer JD Tippit and JFK, and the heartbreaking actions of Jacqueline Kennedy as she tried to preserve a part of her husband’s brain. Our exploration captures the conspiracy theories, poignant emotions, and the raw humanity of those involved.
As we delve into the suspicious circumstances surrounding the handling of Kennedy’s body and the peculiarities observed during his autopsy, we uncover the enigmatic role of Jack Ruby, his mob connections, and the silencing of Oswald. We also offer insights into films and books that delve deeper into the assassination, highlighting works endorsed by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and the controversial Curtis LeMay. Finally, we set the stage for a comprehensive look into the RFK assassination, offering parallels to contemporary issues and a deeper understanding of this complex period in American history. Tune in for a thought-provoking episode filled with compelling narratives and thorough analysis.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome back to A Better Life,
new York.
This is part two of our episodeinto the JFK assassination.
Dom and I are just beginningthat fateful day where Kennedy
is shot in Dealey Plaza and wetake it up at that point.
(00:21):
I hope you will enjoy thisepisode as much as you enjoyed
episode one.
We have gotten great feedbackfrom it and if you haven't
listened to episode one, I tellyou to go back and listen one
episode back and you will enjoyit.
It is a great look into a timeof our history.
(00:42):
Now JFK, part 2.
That takes us to infamous day,november 22nd and the days after
, on 7th of 23 am, oswald goesto work at the Texas Depository
in Dallas with Buell, wesley,frazier, you gotta love these
(01:04):
names.
Sounds like something from amovie.
A young worker there, frazier,asked about a long paper-wrapped
package Oswald's arms whereOswald says it's some curtains
Right, he said it was curtainrods.
Right Says oh, some curtainshere, but I think it was curtain
rods.
The president speaks at abreakfast and attends members of
(01:25):
the Fort Worth Chamber ofCommerce which were largely
conservative Republicans.
Kennedy 9-10.
Now Kennedy takes his place.
So at 10.40 am Kennedy'smotorcade to Hotel Texas for the
Caswell Air Force Base.
At 1.20, air Force One departsCaswell Air Force Base for
(01:45):
Dallas, texas.
At 11.35, air Force Two arrivesat Love Field.
11.38, air Force One arrives atLove Field.
At 11.44, the Kennedys and theConnellys disembark Air Force
One and are greeted by Johnson.
Motorcade cars have been linedup earlier that morning.
(02:08):
11.55, the motorcade departsLove Field about 15 minutes
after the party had arrived andthe president and his wife take
time for shaking hands forenthusiastic supporters.
The motorcade's route LoveField to West Mockingbird Lane
and progresses down Main Street.
At 1229, the motorcade turnsright westbound onto Houston
(02:33):
Street and enters Dealey Plaza.
The motorcade approached theTexas School Depository.
The motorcade made a sharp135-degree left turn on Elm
Street and downward slope.
A giant Hertz rental car clockon top of the depository
building was seen to change from1229 to 1230 as the limousine
(02:59):
turned down Elm Street Witnessesrecall the first shot was fired
after the president startedwaving with his right hand.
Onlookers recalled hearing threeshots.
The Zapruder film shows thatthe president re-emerged after
being temporarily hidden fromview in the Stimmons Freeway
(03:20):
sign and the film frames 215 to223 and his mouth was already
open, wide in anguishedexpression, by frame hands
clenched into fists.
He then raised his fist infront of his face and as he
turns to the left towards hiswife, connelly is also hit.
(03:42):
Secret Service agent Clint Hilltestified he heard one shot,
then jumped off the runningboard of the Secret Service
follow-up car directly behindKennedy at the equivalent frame
of 3.08, about a quarter of asecond before the president's
head exploded on frame 313.
(04:05):
Hill then rapidly ran towardsthe president's limo.
The Warren Commission reportstated that seconds after the
shooting Roy Kellerman consultedhis watch and said 1230 to
William Gere before he radioedpolice chief Jesse Curry that
the president had been shot.
(04:26):
Curry then commenced andordered Parkland Hospital to
stand by for Dallas police radiolog reflecting that the
communication was made at 1230.
As the limousine began to speedup.
Mrs Kennedy was heard to scream, she claimed onto the rear of
the car.
At the same time, hill managedto climb aboard and hang onto
the suddenly accelerated limo.
(04:47):
As Kenny returned back to theseat and Hill shielded her, the
Connellys stated they heardKenny say I have his brains in
my hand.
The limo driver and the policemotorcycles turned their sirens
on and raced estimated 80 milesan hour to Parkland Hospital
along the Simmons Freeway andHarry Hines Boulevard,
(05:09):
approximately four miles away.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
So let's start off at Love Field.
We're talking about before theconcern for the president's
safety, given what happenedpreviously, with officials being
spat on and whatnot, and theserious concern for his safety
when the limo was taking off.
(05:33):
Emery Roberts, who was the, Ibelieve, the special agent in
charge that day, called back aSecret Service agent that was
getting on the back of the limo,and this is all on video.
You can see it on YouTube.
Vince Palmara has it on hisYouTube channel.
The Secret Service agent throwsup his hands like three times
(05:56):
to say what's going on.
What's going on?
To add to this situation, theconcern of safety, that day in
the Dallas Morning News a fullpage advertisement was taken,
had Kennedy's photo on it and itsaid wanted for treason, and it
had bullet points as to thevarious things that they
(06:19):
believed that he committed whichwould amount to treason.
And one of the individuals whopaid for the ad was purported to
be Nelson Hunt, the brother ofHL Hunt.
So you have that happeningright then, and there the
protection being pulled.
(06:39):
You had the militaryintelligence group for that area
was told to stand down that day.
So typically in a situationlike that, military intelligence
would assist the Secret Serviceand local police in the present
(07:00):
security.
They were told to stand downthat day.
Security they were told tostand down that day.
You have the day before themotorcade route was published
and it showed going down MainStreet.
So what happened was, if youwent down Main Street it
wouldn't have conveniently beenin front of the Texas School
(07:21):
Book Depository.
So that was actually changedand the Secret Service broke
their own rules regarding thespeed of the president's car.
When it's open like that, itdoes have a bubble top.
It was not used that day.
The bubble top was notbulletproof.
The only thing that would havehappened is you would have been
(07:44):
able to tell where the bulletscame from, but it wouldn't have
protected the president.
He would have been shot anyways.
But so you have.
You also even have the paradecars being changed like where
they were in the parade.
Typically the press is in thevehicle vehicle either in front
(08:04):
of the president or behind,usually in front, so you could
get his face and photographs andvideo.
On November 22nd they wereplaced last in the line so they
couldn't get any video.
No evidence.
You also saw when the turn wasmade, the left-hand turn from
Houston on to Elm.
(08:24):
You saw the open windows.
There was no police officers onroofs, except for one, which is
interesting.
The records building did have aguy up there and some people
actually speculate that he was ashooter, but the security was
just basically pulled.
(08:45):
As a matter of fact, themotorcycle police officers were
told that day under nocircumstances are you to get
involved with safety.
You're just there to ride,that's it.
Don't get involved withanything.
And, according to Vince Palmera, some of the Secret Service
agents that he's interviewedstated that when shots were
(09:07):
being fired, emory Robertsordered them to stand down.
So that's why it was a setup,with his Secret Service
protection being pulled and theassassination allowed to occur.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Back to Oswald for a minute.
Oswald left the building at1233, right.
Oswald left the buildingthrough the front door.
He'd been confronted by apatrolman, Marion Baker, and
depository superintendent RoyTruly in the second floor
lunchroom.
Baker let Oswald pass afterTruly identified Oswald as an
employee.
Oswald was next seen by hissecretary as he crossed through
(09:46):
the second floor business office.
He left the building throughits front door at approximately
12.33.
Initially, Trulia and ChrisCampbell, the depository's vice
president, said that they hadseen Oswald on the first floor
storage room.
When asked his interrogationsabout his whereabouts, Oswald
(10:09):
claimed that he went outside towatch the parade, referring to
the presidential motorcade, andwas on with William Shelley, a
foreman in the depository, infront, and he was at the front
entrance of the first floor whenhe encountered the police.
It's interesting.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, what also happened was and this is a
fairly recent development in thecase there were three women
watching the motorcade on thefourth floor.
So once they saw the shooting,about 15 to 30 seconds
afterwards, the first lady wentto stairwell.
(10:50):
Now that day, for some reason,at the time of the assassination
, the elevator was no longerusable within the school book
depository.
So anybody in the building ifyou wanted to traverse it you
had to go up and down the stairs.
So three women were in thestairs and none of them saw Lee
(11:12):
Harvey Oswald.
They did see Truly and thepolice officer going up, but
they never saw Oswald going down.
It was very.
The Warren Commission buried it, you know.
They didn't even show it.
And one of their attorneys saidyeah, this is very problematic
because the timing is such thatthey should have definitely run
(11:33):
into Oswald Coming down thestairs?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, all of them, not the cop, the people,
everyone, yeah because they werealready at the fourth floor.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
He would have been starting out at the sixth floor
and they didn't hear anything.
So it wasn't like there wassomebody running down the stairs
, which, in a stairwell, youwould definitely hear that they
buried that and it demonstratesthat Lee Harvey Oswald
definitely was not up on thesixth floor.
However, there's a prison rightacross the way and, believe it
(12:07):
or not, there were severalprisoners who saw the whole
thing and they were looking atthe sixth floor and they saw two
people in there.
One of them seemed to be a darkguy with a bald spot and he was
with a white guy and they sawthe whole thing.
Never interviewed, of course.
Of course not.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Of course not when you're a prisoner.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
You have bad eyesight , so you can't.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah, I'm sure you don't.
So Merriman Smith reported thatshe ends up willing to pull a
surprise for reporting it.
She's a UPI reporter that sheheard three shots President
Slimazine, about 12.36,.
President Slimazine arrives atParkland Hospital, admits
Kennedy and Connelly andimmediately begins treatment.
(12:52):
Malcolm Perry, the assistantprofessor of surgery at the
University of Texas SouthwesternMedical Center and a vascular
surgeon, was there to treatKennedy.
Perry performed tracheotomyfollowing the cardiopulmonary
resuscitation performed byanother surgeon.
Other doctors workedfrantically to save the
(13:14):
president's life, but the woundswere too severe.
So the only thing I know aboutthat day is, at 1240, viewers of
the live soap opera as theWorld Turns received the first
national television report ofthe shooting by Walter Cronkite,
and it wasn't like a picture,it just was a newsflash.
I was five or four years old,sitting on my mother's lap and I
(13:38):
do remember her starting to cryand I do remember this day.
It's probably my first memoryof life, to be honest.
Wow, it was quite a day becauseit got progressively worse and
my mother was pretty shook.
She was home by herself with meand I remember it completely.
I think she might have evencalled my dad at work.
(13:58):
So Dan Rather, in the beginningof his.
He happens to be in the rightplace at the right time, right,
so to speak.
He's on CBS.
He calls Parkland Hospital.
The doctor tells him, heather,in the beginning of his, he
happens to be in the right placeat the right time, right, so to
speak.
Yeah, he's on CBS.
He calls Parkland Hospital.
The doctor tells him thatKennedy is dead.
So now we're around somewherebetween 1230 and 1250.
Estimates that the depositbilling was sealed off by the
police Around that time.
(14:20):
The streets in and aroundDealey Plaza weren't immediately
closed.
Photographs are taken nineminutes after the assassination
show vehicles still driving onElm Street in front of the
depository, which is amazing.
Right At 12.50, kennedy's topmilitary aide, general Godfrey
McHugh, calls for Air Force Onefrom Parkland to state that they
(14:42):
will be leaving for Andrews AirForce Base At one o'clock.
President Kennedy is officiallypronounced dead.
Those who treated Kennedyobserved the president's
condition, that it was morbid,meaning there was no chance of
survival in the hospital.
I'm absolutely sure I neverknew.
He never knew it would hit him.
Last rites were administered.
Uber needed to temporarilyremove a sheet covering
(15:05):
Kennedy's face to give the lastrights to be performed.
Connolly was taken to emergencysurgery where he underwent two
operations that day.
After receiving word of thepresident's death, the acting
White House press secretary,malcolm Kilduff, entered the
hospital room where the newpresident, johnson, and his wife
were sitting.
Kilduff said Mr President, Ihave to announce the president's
death.
Is it okay with you that theannouncement be made?
(15:28):
Johnson ordered theannouncement to be made only
after he left the hospital.
When asking that theannouncement be delayed, johnson
told Kilduff I think I hadbetter get out of here before
you announce it.
I don't know why.
We don't know whether this wasa worldwide conspiracy, or
(15:50):
whether they are after me aswell as they were after
President Kennedy, or it wouldbe after the Speaker.
We just don't know.
He later recounted to MerrillMiller I asked that the
announcement be made after wehad left the room so that the
international conspiracy wereout to destroy our former
(16:11):
government and leaders ingovernment In that government.
We would minimize theopportunity for them doing so.
Certainly worth it After losingthe depository.
At this time, oswald walks sevenblocks boarding a bus.
This is really interestingstuff, right.
Here's a guy who just shot thePresident of the United States.
He gets on a bus the best.
When the bus became installedin traffic.
(16:33):
He exited the bus, walked tothe nearby bus station and hired
a taxi.
He asked the driver to stopseveral blocks past his rooming
house and then walk back to thehouse.
He arrived at the house at 1 pm, according to the housekeeper,
erlin Roberts.
Of course, even Oswald had ahousekeeper back in those days.
(16:55):
The rest of us still cleanourselves Departed three or four
minutes after arriving in therooming house.
He last saw him standing at thebus outside At 1.15,.
Supposedly Oswald shot andkilled Dallas police officer JD
Tibbett near the intersection of10th and Patton Street.
(17:16):
From the rooming house 13people witnessed Oswald shoot
Tibbett or fleeing the immediatescene.
But that evening five witnesseshad identified Oswald in the
police lineup.
It's about 1.15, the firstreport of Officer Tibbett being
shot.
There is all different reportsabout what happened to Tibbett,
(17:40):
different people right.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
What's problematic about that whole scenario is
that at that time Lee HarveyOswald is in the Texas theater
watching a movie.
Battle Him, I think it was.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Battle Him in the Republic, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Where he's seen by multiple people, and the reason
why he made an impact on peopleis that at that time of the day
it was a Friday afternoon, 1o'clock or so Not too many
people in this gigantic movietheater, like hundreds of people
, could have sat there.
Oswald was sitting next topeople and it seemed that he was
(18:16):
looking for somebody or waitingfor somebody to say something
to him.
One of the things that'sinteresting is that in Oswald's
wallet there was a bill that wastorn in half.
There was only half of it there, so it seems as if he was
supposed to meet somebody whowould have had the other half of
(18:36):
that bill.
In terms of the identificationgetting to tip, it was easy to
point the finger at somebodybecause he had a.
His eye was hit, he was wearinga t-shirt, everybody else was
dressed.
Lineup was such that anybodywould pick Lee Harvey Oswald out
(18:58):
Again the problem is that hedidn't have any residue on his
hands.
He didn't have gunpowder on hishands, so he didn't fire a
revolver that day and it'squestionable as to whether or
not that revolver that he hadcould have even been fired
because the firing pin was insuch a rusted condition.
But Tippett was executed thatday.
Several of the witnesses saythat there was two people there
(19:21):
who did it.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
And different looking men had a jacket on.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Yeah, one was short and heavy and one was a little
bit taller.
It can't be coincidences.
So the Tippett murder hassomething to do with the overall
plot Right which we could getinto.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
I've heard every scenario we can get into them.
Later on we can come back toTippett, just to mention that he
looked ridiculously like JFKand people always said that to
him, but we'll leave that therehanging for now.
That's certainly it is.
But back to Parkland, right?
Johnson wants to get out ofthere and of course there's
(19:57):
Kennedy's dad, jacqueline's,beside herself, crazy right.
And of course, being that she'sright, when you watch the video
you think she's trying to climbout of the car.
She's not.
She's going back for part ofhis brain, trying to put it back
in his head.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
She kept it in her hand the whole trip and then she
gave it to a doctor and saidwill this help?
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah, very sad so she had her pink Chanel suit on.
Famously enough, and I thinkthey have it in the Kennedy
Library it still exists.
I don't know where it is.
I think I saw it in the KennedyLibrary.
When I was there in Boston Isaw it somewhere.
It was either in theSmithsonian or in the Kennedy
Library.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yeah, the Johnsons wanted her to change and she
said no, I want them to see whatthey did to my husband.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
So the limousine?
Strange things happen to thelimousine right.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
So limousine pulls up into what looks like a
garage-type structure inParkland and all of a sudden the
Secret Service scramble forfive-gallon buckets and they're
cleaning it out with soap andwater.
It's bizarre because they'rebreaking the law.
I'm not an attorney.
You could certainly say whetheror not that's a crime scene.
(21:09):
Absolutely a crime scene, right?
So they're destroying a crimescene.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
And it's a state crime scene because it's a
murder of a person.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
And at that time there was no federal law about
killing the president.
So this was clearly a Texasstate matter legally.
So they're destroying theevidence.
But people did have a closeview of the car and they were
able to see, for example, thatthere was a bullet hole through
(21:38):
the windshield and they sawdents in the chrome.
So clearly there was a lot ofimpact to the vehicle itself.
But unfortunately the SecretService committed a crime by
destroying the crime scene andthe car was immediately shipped
back to Detroit or somethingright?
(21:59):
Yes, so what happened wasJohnson ordered the vehicle to
be immediately rebuilt.
They took out the windshield,they repainted it, they took out
the seats and they cleaned upeverything and I would assume it
got new carpeting and new seatsand then it was painted black.
It's still displayed, I believe, in Michigan, and interestingly
(22:23):
, lyndon Johnson never rode init again.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
So there's the car.
Here's the next part.
So Johnson orders everybody togo back to the Air Force One,
correct?
So the coroner comes along andhe's going to take the body
because it's in his jurisdictionof the murder.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
His name is Rose.
He was a top-like forensic guy.
So JFK would have gotten 100%proper autopsy with this guy.
And what happened was theSecret Service brandishing their
guns, literally steal the body.
They take the body with them,breaking again Texas law,
(22:59):
because Texas law is if there'sa homicide the autopsy is done
here.
But they took the body withthem.
And the quintessential book onthat whole activity is by David
Lifton and it's called BestEvidence and he demonstrates in
his book that the reason whythey did that is there was a
(23:26):
pre-autopsy or surgery done toJFK to remove bullets and to
obscure the trajectories of theshots.
And it's fascinating becausewhat he did, david Lifton was a
law student out in UCLA and oneof his professors was Wiebler,
who was an attorney for theWarren Commission and one of
(23:49):
many, but he was an attorney forthem.
And in the 1960s David Liftondiscovered this document written
by the two FBI agents Siebert,I believe, and O'Neill, talking
about how when the president'sbody appeared at Bethesda there
was surgery to the head area andLiebler was floored by it, said
(24:14):
you found new evidence and hethen interviewed people who
handled the body at Bethesda.
We know from the photographsand the video that the president
was in a brass ornamentalcoffin, but these people all
claim that they took his bodyout of a crash.
(24:35):
They call it a crash bag, abody bag, military style body
bag.
So it seems that somethinghappened between Dallas and
Bethesda and there was time toget the body out of the
whatchamacallit out of thecoffin and, it is believed,
(25:00):
david Lifton recently passedaway.
He was on this thing since 1966.
And what he believes happenedwas they took Kennedy's body and
they stored it next to thegalley of the airplane.
And what happened was and heinterviewed a guy whose job was
(25:27):
to refuel Air Force One.
So when Air Force One landedback in Washington it's a very
important job because if Godforbid, world War III starts,
the president gets on Air ForceOne and goes to wherever he has
to go, so it's important thatit's always loaded with fuel.
(25:47):
What happened was this guy wasthere for hours waiting for the
clearance to be able to fuel AirForce One.
The reason why he was delayedwas there was a cleaning company
that was used to clean out AirForce One and Lifton supposes
that they had to deal with theblood and all that.
(26:07):
What's also interesting is oneof the doctors at Bethesda said
that the president had his armraised and in rigor mortis and
he had to like press down on itand Lifton didn't understand how
that could have occurred and hegave the scenario to an
(26:29):
ex-girlfriend of his who he saidwas really brilliant.
She says oh, that's easy If youwere correct and he was placed
on a galley shelf.
What happened was when theplane made a steep turn, he
moved a little bit and his armdropped.
So when his arm dropped, nowwhen you lay him on his back,
rigor mortis kicking in the armis sticking up.
(26:51):
So it seems that also.
Let's go back to Parkland for asecond.
The initial incision to inserta tracheal tube was done over a
bullet hole, so it was a cleanincision.
When you look at the autopsyphotographs, it's this massive
(27:18):
gash which a tracheal tube couldnot have functioned.
Within that gash it would havebeen impossible because it has
to seal around it.
It has to seal around it.
So it's just more indicationthat actually somebody was there
to take bullets out of thepresident.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah, it seems to be.
We're in Parkland to take thebody.
We're back on the plane, right,jacqueline's in the back with
the body and LBJ is about to besworn in.
He calls some judge thatKennedy hated.
Actually, right, right, somejudge he wanted removed, or
something like that to swear himin a federal judge, or Kennedy
didn't want to appoint him, orsome story like that.
(27:55):
That judge comes to swearJohnson in and he wants
Jacqueline to stand next to himand she makes that statement
about changing her clothes thatyou have already made.
And then, when you watch thevideo, it's the most chilling
thing.
I think, yeah, a little wink,yeah, johnson turns around and
(28:20):
his friend I don't know who thatwas.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah, the name escapes me, but his buddy was a
Texas congressman and he givesJohnson a nice wink and it's
captured in a photograph of theswearing-in which Johnson lied
about because he said he askedBobby Kennedy if he had to be
sworn in.
Now everybody knows that theassumption to the presidency is
(28:42):
immediate for the vice presidentonce the president is dead, so
you don't have to be sworn in.
If you're the vice president,you immediately assume the
presidency.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
But I saw actually not just a picture, photograph,
I saw a video on one of thethings where you literally see
these guys winking at each otherand the president of the United
States was just assassinated inan open car and they're winking
at each other like it was somekind of he got a big smile on
his face yeah.
Like you were right.
You were right all those yearsago when you said you'll take
(29:18):
your odds.
You took your odds and you won.
It's unbelievable to someextent.
So now the body supposedly andJohnson, they come back to
Washington.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
What's interesting?
Just one other thing about thebody.
By all accounts, a significantportion of the president's brain
was blown out.
Yet in the autopsy at Bethesdahis brain weighs in at above
average.
More proof that there wasskullduggery going on with the
(29:48):
autopsy and some of the resultsthat they created.
Because if the guy lost asignificant portion of his brain
, this is from the Parklanddoctors and nurses, I mean, they
could see in there.
Even Clint Hill said that thepresident had a big hole in the
back of his head Right.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
We saw it on the video too.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
And yet they took his brain, they put it at the
Smithsonian or the NationalArchives or wherever it is, and
now it's missing, right.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah, I think I know where it is.
I think it's actually with him.
A lot of people don't know this, but in 1967, Bobby Kennedy and
Ted Kennedy were at thegravesite and they brought the
president up, they disinterredhim and I think that's where
Bobby Kennedy placed some ofthat stuff.
(30:38):
Yeah, I think it's in there.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I didn't know that.
Yeah Forward, oswald is beingheld at the Dallas Police, at
Dallas Police, and on Sundaymorning they're going to move
him somewhere.
Where were they moving him to?
I don't even know that.
I think the County jail.
They were moving in the Countyjail.
And also something that Ihappened to be watching on
television on a Sunday morning,with my parents on TV trays
(31:02):
eating muffins or something, andlo and behold, jack Ruby comes
out of nowhere and shoots theguy.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
So Jack Ruby was a Chicago gangster.
He was not a May guy becausehe's Jewish.
Jack Rubenstein is actually hisname, I guess Jacob Rubenstein.
He had a couple of places inDallas where you had strippers
and you had comedians andwhatnot.
(31:32):
The Carousel Club was one ofthe names, and people saw him in
the presence of Lee HarveyOswald.
Purportedly he went to visit HL Hunt the day before the
assassination with anothergentleman who on the 22nd was
(31:53):
arrested coming out of the DowTech's building.
Nobody knows what they werethere for, but it's very
interesting.
But Ruby was a verywell-connected gangster.
He spent some time in Cuba.
People say that he was the guythat went down there when Castro
took over Cuba.
He took control of the casinos.
(32:14):
Santos Traficante, who was themob boss of Florida, was in Cuba
at the time and he was thrownin jail and people say that it
was Jack Ruby who went therewith a package of money to get
him out of prison.
So he was a very well-connectedguy and interestingly, he was
(32:37):
stalking Oswald.
There was a 12 o'clock pressconference Friday night,
saturday morning and somebodymade an incorrect statement as
to Oswald's affiliations.
Somebody said the Free CubaMovement and it was Jack Ruby,
who corrected it and said fairplay for Cuba, and you could see
(33:00):
in video.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
I have seen them and I saw Ruby there seen them and I
saw Ruby there, Ruby's there.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
So then, so that's Friday night, saturday, the
Dallas police get a call and theguy on the other end says don't
move Oswald tomorrow becausehe's going to be shot, don't
move him tomorrow.
And the guy hangs up and thepolice officer took the call.
(33:25):
Yeah, I was like geez, hisvoice is familiar.
And then Sunday morning whenRuby shoots Oswald, he goes oh,
that was Jack Ruby.
Now I know who it was.
He recognized the voice, hejust couldn't put it together at
that time.
So Ruby on one hand was stalkingOswald, on another hand, he
didn't want to go ahead and doit.
(33:47):
There is a brief, one minute orso interview of Ruby.
After he has spoken with theWarren Commission went to Dallas
to interview him.
He asked to be taken toWashington because he felt that
he couldn't tell them what hewanted to, and he talks about
(34:08):
that.
People in very high positionsput him in the position that
he's in now and the reportersaid are these people still in
power?
And he said yes.
And so he certainly knew alittle bit about where the
octopus of this assassination,where it led to.
One of the things that'sinteresting about Ruby is a book
(34:30):
was done on him concerning hisactivities prior to the
assassination, with a bigemphasis on his telephone calls,
and you just see itskyrocketing from September into
November talking to mob guys.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
And it's funny when you see the video and you see it
recently with the sound on youhear a horn honk and they bring
Ruby out and then you hearanother horn honk and then he's
shot.
So it almost was like a signal.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I happened to run into somebody who told me I
don't know how true it is thatit was his father who was
handcuffed to Lee Harvey Oswaldthat day.
He was a Dallas police officer,he was a detective.
He wore a white suit with awhite cowboy hat or something
like that, and if you see hisface he was shocked.
(35:21):
He said my dad, he found out hewas the only guy in the whole
police department that didn'tknow that Oswald was going to be
shot that day.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, that's the thing you can't tell the guy,
because then he's going tobehave differently.
So that's how that works youcan never tell the guy.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
So now Oswald's dead, the Warren Commission does
their thing.
They come up with this crazysingle bullet.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Yes, Arlen Specter.
He was an attorney for theWarren Commission, then he
became mayor of Philadelphia, Ibelieve, and then he became a
Republican senator, us senatorfrom the state of Pennsylvania.
All based on the lie of thesingle bullet theory, which
stated that what happened wasthey found a bullet at Parkland
(36:10):
Hospital, supposedly I saysupposedly because the chain of
evidence would not pass legalmuster.
But I digress.
They find this bullet, which isit's not pristine.
People call it the pristinebullet.
It's not really pristine.
If you look at the back part ofit, it's squeezed a little bit,
it's missing some pieces, butthe nose of it is in pretty good
(36:34):
shape.
Now, because they said that theyonly had three shells, three
spent cartridges in the TexasSchool Book Depository.
They would only go with threeshots.
So you have the president ishit in the back, he's hit in the
throat.
He's hit in the head, connolly.
A shot goes through his bodyand winds up in his leg.
(36:58):
His wrist is destroyed by ashot.
You have a shot that hits thechrome of the limousine.
You have another shot thatcomes through the front
windshield.
You got shots all over theplace, but to put together
Kennedy's wounds and Connolly'swounds, arlen Specter went to
work and he said one bullet wentin Kennedy's back, came out his
(37:22):
throat, went to Connolly's back, came out, smashed his wrist
and then wound up in his thigh.
Here are several problems withthat theory.
The Warren Commission hired aguy his name escapes me, but he
was a World War II ballisticsguy and he knew rifles.
(37:48):
He knew bullets.
They gave him I don't know ifit was the exact rifle, but
certainly a 6.5 MannlicherCarcano.
They gave him 100 rounds.
He shot 100 rounds intocadavers' wrists.
All 100 were severely damaged.
Now it wasn't just Connolly'swrist that was destroyed, it
(38:12):
also hit one of his ribs anddestroyed his rib.
That's why the two surgeriesyeah, it's physically impossible
for a bullet for that bullet tohave traversed both men and
come out in that condition.
Second problem with itmathematics.
There was more bullet fragmentsin Connolly's thigh than was
(38:37):
physically missing from thebullet which is called CE-399.
It just doesn't hold up.
It just doesn't hold up.
What we found out later isbecause the president had
obviously a hole in his coatwhich matched the hole in his
shirt, which was low.
(38:58):
It was down at the I believethey call it the third thoracic
vertebrae, which is about six,eight inches down from your neck
.
Gerald Ford admitted that, thathe raised the wound for
clarification purposes.
(39:19):
He didn't raise the wound forclarification, they needed it
for the trajectory because thebullet hole in the president's
back was far lower than histhroat.
So it was physically impossiblefor a shot to come from the
sixth floor depository and hitat that location and then go
upwards.
So you have a lot of problemswith the single bullet theory
(39:43):
and it really hasn't held upthrough time as people
understand more and more aboutit.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah, it's very interesting.
No one believed it at the time,except for the Warren
Commission.
I don't think anyone believedit.
And you think about who was onthe Warren Commission.
You had Gerald Ford, who laterbecomes the only non-elected
president of the United States.
You have Dulles, who hatedKennedy with a passion and was
fired by him, and was fired byhim much to his dismay.
(40:13):
And who am I forgetting?
There's one other one, that'sreally, and a lot of people were
intimidated.
They were afraid to speak.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
And basically the FBI is what really ran the Warren
Commission investigation Right,and initially it was.
The whole thing was one guy didit and he had no connections
with anybody else, and that'sthat the one thing which is
interesting.
They have never, ever been ableto come up with a motive, so
(40:47):
they left that out.
People who they interviewed aguy named George DeMoreshild who
was a—they were called whiteRussians, they were
anti-communist Russians was a.
They were called white Russians, they were anti-communist
Russians.
He was living in Texas,seemingly very heavy CIA
(41:09):
connections.
He knew Oswald and he said thatOswald spoke fondly of
President Kennedy.
So they never, ever came upwith a motive and they just left
that out of the report.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
They tried to make him like a lunatic a little bit
right.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Yeah, that's the beginning of the lone nut.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
He's a lone nut he doesn't have a motive because
he's a lone nut.
There could be something tothat.
A lot of these documents weresealed.
I remember when we were goingthrough it I was still a kid and
my father said we'll never know.
It won't be in our lifetime.
Somebody will know somewhere inthe future.
And here we are still trying topiece together.
There are some Trump.
When he was president he vowedto release everything and at the
(41:43):
ninth hour the CIA came in andsaid you can't release these 200
documents, you can't do it.
I think it's a few thousand.
I think it's a couple thousand.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
He has since said that people said do you think
the CIA was involved?
He goes yeah, I think that theywere involved.
But yeah, it's unfortunate thathe didn't release that
information.
We would have found out.
But I think it all depends onwhat happens in November.
But I think that there's enoughout there to realize that this
was not the work of one man,that this was a very involved
(42:16):
conspiracy, and I think that'spretty much established.
You'd have to go through lifewith your eyes closed to really
think that Lee Harvey Oswald didthis alone, and half of those
people that profess thatprobably are working for the CIA
anyway.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
True, I guess what I would recommend everyone to see
besides the movie JFK, which isnot factually correct.
But they definitely bring a lotof questions and it definitely
brought on a lot of things.
There's a few things I usuallywatch.
I watch JFK, Three Shots Fired,the Change in the World, it's
just ongoing, all movies of whatwe're taking that day, and I
(42:55):
don't even think there's anycommentary.
It's just all kinds of filmsfrom all different viewpoints.
And then what I like a lot andI think Dom has seen it as well
is JFK Destiny Betrayed, whichis a documentary in four parts.
There's a three-part one outthere, but the four-part one
(43:15):
goes into much detail and ifthis kind of stuff bothers you,
you'll never make it through thefirst episode.
That's all I could say.
My sister who watched it, who Itried to watch it with, said I
can't take it anymore.
I can't believe this is whatour government did to us.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Yeah, I would say.
If you don't have a lot of timeon your hands, but you would
like to read about the subject,I would give you.
I recommend two books.
One is written by James Douglas, it's called JFK and the
Unspeakable, and that's a bookthat even Robert F Kennedy Jr
says he feels is the best on theassassination.
(43:51):
Another one is a little knownbook.
It's called Farewell America.
It was written in 1968 underthe pseudonym of James Hepburn
and in 1968, it was illegal tobring that book into the United
States.
You would be arrested and finedand I have an original copy of
(44:13):
that book.
By the 80s you could buy them.
They changed the law around andthe book talks about mob guys,
oil men, spies, and it puts theentire assassination together in
such a way that you couldunderstand the size of it, size
and scope of it and what itmeant to American history.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
There were a lot of moving parts and we can get into
that, but we don't necessarilyhave to the look back at who was
involved and it's really allspeculation and kinds of things.
One of the interesting stories,I always think is so they bring
the body back and they're goingto do the autopsy at Bethesda.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Bethesda.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
And so what do they do?
They grab a whole bunch ofdoctors that never done an
autopsy before but they'reofficers, and they bring a whole
bunch of generals in a room whoare like the joint chiefs.
And if anybody's ever served inthe military, or known anybody
that's served in the military,when a general walks in the room
it's like God on earth Allright.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
The Kennedy autopsy was jam-packed.
It must have been.
Bethesda, must have been like ateaching place as well, because
there were grandstands thereand they've been able to
determine at least 33 people inthe audience and the surgeons
none of them were forensic guys.
I don't think any of them hadto deal with bullet wounds.
(45:39):
Some of them they've doneautopsies, but that's like heart
attacks and that sort of thing,nothing like this.
And the top people in theUnited States were waiting for
the call.
That never came that night.
But what happened was theystarted the autopsy and they
start smelling smoke and one ofthe autopsy surgeons goes to an
(46:02):
orderly you see that guy overthere.
Tell him to put out that cigar.
There was a guy smoking a cigar.
So the orderly goes up to himand he says, sir, can you put
out that cigar?
And the guy took a big draw onthe cigar and he blew all the
smoke in Horderly's face.
And it was Curtis LeMay, thehead of the Air Force Joint
(46:22):
Chiefs of Staff.
His hatred of Kennedy was suchthat he personally and I think
he was in Canada, I think he wasin Toronto, I don't know if he
was fishing or hunting or whathe was doing, but he flew down
just to view the autopsy.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
And Bay of Pigs, all kinds of things.
Lemay hated Kennedy and it'swell known and I think it's well
documented.
But both Dom and I believe thatLeMay had nothing to do with
the assassination, even thoughthat he was the Grim Reaper
enjoying the autopsy, if youwill, of what happened to this
(47:01):
guy.
Whether he knew who did it ornot may be another story, but
for some reason neither one ofus think that he had no role in
it.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Yeah, curtis LeMay wanted to attack during the
Cuban Missile Crisis.
And then in 1962, he presentedPresident Kennedy with a plan to
launch a full-scale nuclear waragainst the Soviet Union in the
fall of 1963.
And after hearing LeMay's plan,kennedy famously stated and
(47:34):
they call us the human race.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Yeah, he wanted to bring the whole world to an end.
So I hope, as this is going toend up being a two-parter, we
hope that gives you a littleedification.
For those of you that weren'talive during that period I don't
know if Dom was, but I was, butvery little.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Actually, I was born on September 11th 1963.
I'm saying birthdays this week,yep, and my grandmother said
that I saw Ruby kill Oswald.
She was holding me on her lapand we were watching the TV.
So that's what she said I sawyeah.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
I'm obviously a little older than that, but it
is an amazing part when they sayit's when we lost our innocence
.
I think it's.
We became aware of what reallygoes on in the world is what
happened.
Having said that, I hope youenjoy this episode.
We're going to do another one,dom and I.
The next one is going to beabout the RFK assassination,
(48:29):
which is not as elaborate, but Ithink there's more information
that's more transparent aboutactually what was going on that
day, or on that night, if youwill, or morning.
It's a very interesting storyand I think it says a lot about
what was going on in America inthe 1960s and, frankly, it's
probably going on today as well.
(48:51):
So, having said that, thank youall very much for listening.
Thanks, dom, dom, for all hishard work and putting it all
together, and we will see youagain or here you hopefully you
enjoy it and please leave ussome comments.
Hello everyone and welcome back to A Better Life,
new York.
This is part two of our episodeinto the JFK assassination.
Dom and I are just beginningthat fateful day where Kennedy
is shot in Dealey Plaza and wetake it up at that point.
(00:21):
I hope you will enjoy thisepisode as much as you enjoyed
episode one.
We have gotten great feedbackfrom it and if you haven't
listened to episode one, I tellyou to go back and listen one
episode back and you will enjoyit.
It is a great look into a timeof our history.
(00:42):
Now JFK, part 2.
That takes us to infamous day,november 22nd and the days after
, on 7th of 23 am, oswald goesto work at the Texas Depository
in Dallas with Buell, wesley,frazier, you gotta love these
(01:04):
names.
Sounds like something from amovie.
A young worker there, frazier,asked about a long paper-wrapped
package Oswald's arms whereOswald says it's some curtains
Right, he said it was curtainrods.
Right Says oh, some curtainshere, but I think it was curtain
rods.
The president speaks at abreakfast and attends members of
(01:25):
the Fort Worth Chamber ofCommerce which were largely
conservative Republicans.
Kennedy 9-10.
Now Kennedy takes his place.
So at 10.40 am Kennedy'smotorcade to Hotel Texas for the
Caswell Air Force Base.
At 1.20, air Force One departsCaswell Air Force Base for
(01:45):
Dallas, texas.
At 11.35, air Force Two arrivesat Love Field.
11.38, air Force One arrives atLove Field.
At 11.44, the Kennedys and theConnellys disembark Air Force
One and are greeted by Johnson.
Motorcade cars have been linedup earlier that morning.
(02:08):
11.55, the motorcade departsLove Field about 15 minutes
after the party had arrived andthe president and his wife take
time for shaking hands forenthusiastic supporters.
The motorcade's route LoveField to West Mockingbird Lane
and progresses down Main Street.
At 1229, the motorcade turnsright westbound onto Houston
(02:33):
Street and enters Dealey Plaza.
The motorcade approached theTexas School Depository.
The motorcade made a sharp135-degree left turn on Elm
Street and downward slope.
A giant Hertz rental car clockon top of the depository
building was seen to change from1229 to 1230 as the limousine
(02:59):
turned down Elm Street Witnessesrecall the first shot was fired
after the president startedwaving with his right hand.
Onlookers recalled hearing threeshots.
The Zapruder film shows thatthe president re-emerged after
being temporarily hidden fromview in the Stimmons Freeway
(03:20):
sign and the film frames 215 to223 and his mouth was already
open, wide in anguishedexpression, by frame hands
clenched into fists.
He then raised his fist infront of his face and as he
turns to the left towards hiswife, connelly is also hit.
(03:42):
Secret Service agent Clint Hilltestified he heard one shot,
then jumped off the runningboard of the Secret Service
follow-up car directly behindKennedy at the equivalent frame
of 3.08, about a quarter of asecond before the president's
head exploded on frame 313.
(04:05):
Hill then rapidly ran towardsthe president's limo.
The Warren Commission reportstated that seconds after the
shooting Roy Kellerman consultedhis watch and said 1230 to
William Gere before he radioedpolice chief Jesse Curry that
the president had been shot.
(04:26):
Curry then commenced andordered Parkland Hospital to
stand by for Dallas police radiolog reflecting that the
communication was made at 1230.
As the limousine began to speedup.
Mrs Kennedy was heard to scream, she claimed onto the rear of
the car.
At the same time, hill managedto climb aboard and hang onto
the suddenly accelerated limo.
(04:47):
As Kenny returned back to theseat and Hill shielded her, the
Connellys stated they heardKenny say I have his brains in
my hand.
The limo driver and the policemotorcycles turned their sirens
on and raced estimated 80 milesan hour to Parkland Hospital
along the Simmons Freeway andHarry Hines Boulevard,
(05:09):
approximately four miles away.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
So let's start off at Love Field.
We're talking about before theconcern for the president's
safety, given what happenedpreviously, with officials being
spat on and whatnot, and theserious concern for his safety
when the limo was taking off.
(05:33):
Emery Roberts, who was the, Ibelieve, the special agent in
charge that day, called back aSecret Service agent that was
getting on the back of the limo,and this is all on video.
You can see it on YouTube.
Vince Palmara has it on hisYouTube channel.
The Secret Service agent throwsup his hands like three times
(05:56):
to say what's going on.
What's going on?
To add to this situation, theconcern of safety, that day in
the Dallas Morning News a fullpage advertisement was taken,
had Kennedy's photo on it and itsaid wanted for treason, and it
had bullet points as to thevarious things that they
(06:19):
believed that he committed whichwould amount to treason.
And one of the individuals whopaid for the ad was purported to
be Nelson Hunt, the brother ofHL Hunt.
So you have that happeningright then, and there the
protection being pulled.
(06:39):
You had the militaryintelligence group for that area
was told to stand down that day.
So typically in a situationlike that, military intelligence
would assist the Secret Serviceand local police in the present
(07:00):
security.
They were told to stand downthat day.
Security they were told tostand down that day.
You have the day before themotorcade route was published
and it showed going down MainStreet.
So what happened was, if youwent down Main Street it
wouldn't have conveniently beenin front of the Texas School
(07:21):
Book Depository.
So that was actually changedand the Secret Service broke
their own rules regarding thespeed of the president's car.
When it's open like that, itdoes have a bubble top.
It was not used that day.
The bubble top was notbulletproof.
The only thing that would havehappened is you would have been
(07:44):
able to tell where the bulletscame from, but it wouldn't have
protected the president.
He would have been shot anyways.
But so you have.
You also even have the paradecars being changed like where
they were in the parade.
Typically the press is in thevehicle vehicle either in front
(08:04):
of the president or behind,usually in front, so you could
get his face and photographs andvideo.
On November 22nd they wereplaced last in the line so they
couldn't get any video.
No evidence.
You also saw when the turn wasmade, the left-hand turn from
Houston on to Elm.
(08:24):
You saw the open windows.
There was no police officers onroofs, except for one, which is
interesting.
The records building did have aguy up there and some people
actually speculate that he was ashooter, but the security was
just basically pulled.
(08:45):
As a matter of fact, themotorcycle police officers were
told that day under nocircumstances are you to get
involved with safety.
You're just there to ride,that's it.
Don't get involved withanything.
And, according to Vince Palmera, some of the Secret Service
agents that he's interviewedstated that when shots were
(09:07):
being fired, emory Robertsordered them to stand down.
So that's why it was a setup,with his Secret Service
protection being pulled and theassassination allowed to occur.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Back to Oswald for a minute.
Oswald left the building at1233, right.
Oswald left the buildingthrough the front door.
He'd been confronted by apatrolman, Marion Baker, and
depository superintendent RoyTruly in the second floor
lunchroom.
Baker let Oswald pass afterTruly identified Oswald as an
employee.
Oswald was next seen by hissecretary as he crossed through
(09:46):
the second floor business office.
He left the building throughits front door at approximately
12.33.
Initially, Trulia and ChrisCampbell, the depository's vice
president, said that they hadseen Oswald on the first floor
storage room.
When asked his interrogationsabout his whereabouts, Oswald
(10:09):
claimed that he went outside towatch the parade, referring to
the presidential motorcade, andwas on with William Shelley, a
foreman in the depository, infront, and he was at the front
entrance of the first floor whenhe encountered the police.
It's interesting.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, what also happened was and this is a
fairly recent development in thecase there were three women
watching the motorcade on thefourth floor.
So once they saw the shooting,about 15 to 30 seconds
afterwards, the first lady wentto stairwell.
(10:50):
Now that day, for some reason,at the time of the assassination
, the elevator was no longerusable within the school book
depository.
So anybody in the building ifyou wanted to traverse it you
had to go up and down the stairs.
So three women were in thestairs and none of them saw Lee
(11:12):
Harvey Oswald.
They did see Truly and thepolice officer going up, but
they never saw Oswald going down.
It was very.
The Warren Commission buried it, you know.
They didn't even show it.
And one of their attorneys saidyeah, this is very problematic
because the timing is such thatthey should have definitely run
(11:33):
into Oswald Coming down thestairs?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, all of them, not the cop, the people,
everyone, yeah because they werealready at the fourth floor.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
He would have been starting out at the sixth floor
and they didn't hear anything.
So it wasn't like there wassomebody running down the stairs
, which, in a stairwell, youwould definitely hear that they
buried that and it demonstratesthat Lee Harvey Oswald
definitely was not up on thesixth floor.
However, there's a prison rightacross the way and, believe it
(12:07):
or not, there were severalprisoners who saw the whole
thing and they were looking atthe sixth floor and they saw two
people in there.
One of them seemed to be a darkguy with a bald spot and he was
with a white guy and they sawthe whole thing.
Never interviewed, of course.
Of course not.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Of course not when you're a prisoner.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
You have bad eyesight , so you can't.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah, I'm sure you don't.
So Merriman Smith reported thatshe ends up willing to pull a
surprise for reporting it.
She's a UPI reporter that sheheard three shots President
Slimazine, about 12.36,.
President Slimazine arrives atParkland Hospital, admits
Kennedy and Connelly andimmediately begins treatment.
(12:52):
Malcolm Perry, the assistantprofessor of surgery at the
University of Texas SouthwesternMedical Center and a vascular
surgeon, was there to treatKennedy.
Perry performed tracheotomyfollowing the cardiopulmonary
resuscitation performed byanother surgeon.
Other doctors workedfrantically to save the
(13:14):
president's life, but the woundswere too severe.
So the only thing I know aboutthat day is, at 1240, viewers of
the live soap opera as theWorld Turns received the first
national television report ofthe shooting by Walter Cronkite,
and it wasn't like a picture,it just was a newsflash.
I was five or four years old,sitting on my mother's lap and I
(13:38):
do remember her starting to cryand I do remember this day.
It's probably my first memoryof life, to be honest.
Wow, it was quite a day becauseit got progressively worse and
my mother was pretty shook.
She was home by herself with meand I remember it completely.
I think she might have evencalled my dad at work.
(13:58):
So Dan Rather, in the beginningof his.
He happens to be in the rightplace at the right time, right,
so to speak.
He's on CBS.
He calls Parkland Hospital.
The doctor tells him, heather,in the beginning of his, he
happens to be in the right placeat the right time, right, so to
speak.
Yeah, he's on CBS.
He calls Parkland Hospital.
The doctor tells him thatKennedy is dead.
So now we're around somewherebetween 1230 and 1250.
Estimates that the depositbilling was sealed off by the
police Around that time.
(14:20):
The streets in and aroundDealey Plaza weren't immediately
closed.
Photographs are taken nineminutes after the assassination
show vehicles still driving onElm Street in front of the
depository, which is amazing.
Right At 12.50, kennedy's topmilitary aide, general Godfrey
McHugh, calls for Air Force Onefrom Parkland to state that they
(14:42):
will be leaving for Andrews AirForce Base At one o'clock.
President Kennedy is officiallypronounced dead.
Those who treated Kennedyobserved the president's
condition, that it was morbid,meaning there was no chance of
survival in the hospital.
I'm absolutely sure I neverknew.
He never knew it would hit him.
Last rites were administered.
Uber needed to temporarilyremove a sheet covering
(15:05):
Kennedy's face to give the lastrights to be performed.
Connolly was taken to emergencysurgery where he underwent two
operations that day.
After receiving word of thepresident's death, the acting
White House press secretary,malcolm Kilduff, entered the
hospital room where the newpresident, johnson, and his wife
were sitting.
Kilduff said Mr President, Ihave to announce the president's
death.
Is it okay with you that theannouncement be made?
(15:28):
Johnson ordered theannouncement to be made only
after he left the hospital.
When asking that theannouncement be delayed, johnson
told Kilduff I think I hadbetter get out of here before
you announce it.
I don't know why.
We don't know whether this wasa worldwide conspiracy, or
(15:50):
whether they are after me aswell as they were after
President Kennedy, or it wouldbe after the Speaker.
We just don't know.
He later recounted to MerrillMiller I asked that the
announcement be made after wehad left the room so that the
international conspiracy wereout to destroy our former
(16:11):
government and leaders ingovernment In that government.
We would minimize theopportunity for them doing so.
Certainly worth it After losingthe depository.
At this time, oswald walks sevenblocks boarding a bus.
This is really interestingstuff, right.
Here's a guy who just shot thePresident of the United States.
He gets on a bus the best.
When the bus became installedin traffic.
(16:33):
He exited the bus, walked tothe nearby bus station and hired
a taxi.
He asked the driver to stopseveral blocks past his rooming
house and then walk back to thehouse.
He arrived at the house at 1 pm, according to the housekeeper,
erlin Roberts.
Of course, even Oswald had ahousekeeper back in those days.
(16:55):
The rest of us still cleanourselves Departed three or four
minutes after arriving in therooming house.
He last saw him standing at thebus outside At 1.15,.
Supposedly Oswald shot andkilled Dallas police officer JD
Tibbett near the intersection of10th and Patton Street.
(17:16):
From the rooming house 13people witnessed Oswald shoot
Tibbett or fleeing the immediatescene.
But that evening five witnesseshad identified Oswald in the
police lineup.
It's about 1.15, the firstreport of Officer Tibbett being
shot.
There is all different reportsabout what happened to Tibbett,
(17:40):
different people right.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
What's problematic about that whole scenario is
that at that time Lee HarveyOswald is in the Texas theater
watching a movie.
Battle Him, I think it was.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Battle Him in the Republic, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Where he's seen by multiple people, and the reason
why he made an impact on peopleis that at that time of the day
it was a Friday afternoon, 1o'clock or so Not too many
people in this gigantic movietheater, like hundreds of people
, could have sat there.
Oswald was sitting next topeople and it seemed that he was
(18:16):
looking for somebody or waitingfor somebody to say something
to him.
One of the things that'sinteresting is that in Oswald's
wallet there was a bill that wastorn in half.
There was only half of it there, so it seems as if he was
supposed to meet somebody whowould have had the other half of
(18:36):
that bill.
In terms of the identificationgetting to tip, it was easy to
point the finger at somebodybecause he had a.
His eye was hit, he was wearinga t-shirt, everybody else was
dressed.
Lineup was such that anybodywould pick Lee Harvey Oswald out
(18:58):
Again the problem is that hedidn't have any residue on his
hands.
He didn't have gunpowder on hishands, so he didn't fire a
revolver that day and it'squestionable as to whether or
not that revolver that he hadcould have even been fired
because the firing pin was insuch a rusted condition.
But Tippett was executed thatday.
Several of the witnesses saythat there was two people there
(19:21):
who did it.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
And different looking men had a jacket on.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Yeah, one was short and heavy and one was a little
bit taller.
It can't be coincidences.
So the Tippett murder hassomething to do with the overall
plot Right which we could getinto.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
I've heard every scenario we can get into them.
Later on we can come back toTippett, just to mention that he
looked ridiculously like JFKand people always said that to
him, but we'll leave that therehanging for now.
That's certainly it is.
But back to Parkland, right?
Johnson wants to get out ofthere and of course there's
(19:57):
Kennedy's dad, jacqueline's,beside herself, crazy right.
And of course, being that she'sright, when you watch the video
you think she's trying to climbout of the car.
She's not.
She's going back for part ofhis brain, trying to put it back
in his head.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
She kept it in her hand the whole trip and then she
gave it to a doctor and saidwill this help?
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah, very sad so she had her pink Chanel suit on.
Famously enough, and I thinkthey have it in the Kennedy
Library it still exists.
I don't know where it is.
I think I saw it in the KennedyLibrary.
When I was there in Boston Isaw it somewhere.
It was either in theSmithsonian or in the Kennedy
Library.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yeah, the Johnsons wanted her to change and she
said no, I want them to see whatthey did to my husband.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
So the limousine?
Strange things happen to thelimousine right.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
So limousine pulls up into what looks like a
garage-type structure inParkland and all of a sudden the
Secret Service scramble forfive-gallon buckets and they're
cleaning it out with soap andwater.
It's bizarre because they'rebreaking the law.
I'm not an attorney.
You could certainly say whetheror not that's a crime scene.
(21:09):
Absolutely a crime scene, right?
So they're destroying a crimescene.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
And it's a state crime scene because it's a
murder of a person.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
And at that time there was no federal law about
killing the president.
So this was clearly a Texasstate matter legally.
So they're destroying theevidence.
But people did have a closeview of the car and they were
able to see, for example, thatthere was a bullet hole through
(21:38):
the windshield and they sawdents in the chrome.
So clearly there was a lot ofimpact to the vehicle itself.
But unfortunately the SecretService committed a crime by
destroying the crime scene andthe car was immediately shipped
back to Detroit or somethingright?
(21:59):
Yes, so what happened wasJohnson ordered the vehicle to
be immediately rebuilt.
They took out the windshield,they repainted it, they took out
the seats and they cleaned upeverything and I would assume it
got new carpeting and new seatsand then it was painted black.
It's still displayed, I believe, in Michigan, and interestingly
(22:23):
, lyndon Johnson never rode init again.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
So there's the car.
Here's the next part.
So Johnson orders everybody togo back to the Air Force One,
correct?
So the coroner comes along andhe's going to take the body
because it's in his jurisdictionof the murder.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
His name is Rose.
He was a top-like forensic guy.
So JFK would have gotten 100%proper autopsy with this guy.
And what happened was theSecret Service brandishing their
guns, literally steal the body.
They take the body with them,breaking again Texas law,
(22:59):
because Texas law is if there'sa homicide the autopsy is done
here.
But they took the body withthem.
And the quintessential book onthat whole activity is by David
Lifton and it's called BestEvidence and he demonstrates in
his book that the reason whythey did that is there was a
(23:26):
pre-autopsy or surgery done toJFK to remove bullets and to
obscure the trajectories of theshots.
And it's fascinating becausewhat he did, david Lifton was a
law student out in UCLA and oneof his professors was Wiebler,
who was an attorney for theWarren Commission and one of
(23:49):
many, but he was an attorney forthem.
And in the 1960s David Liftondiscovered this document written
by the two FBI agents Siebert,I believe, and O'Neill, talking
about how when the president'sbody appeared at Bethesda there
was surgery to the head area andLiebler was floored by it, said
(24:14):
you found new evidence and hethen interviewed people who
handled the body at Bethesda.
We know from the photographsand the video that the president
was in a brass ornamentalcoffin, but these people all
claim that they took his bodyout of a crash.
(24:35):
They call it a crash bag, abody bag, military style body
bag.
So it seems that somethinghappened between Dallas and
Bethesda and there was time toget the body out of the
whatchamacallit out of thecoffin and, it is believed,
(25:00):
david Lifton recently passedaway.
He was on this thing since 1966.
And what he believes happenedwas they took Kennedy's body and
they stored it next to thegalley of the airplane.
And what happened was and heinterviewed a guy whose job was
(25:27):
to refuel Air Force One.
So when Air Force One landedback in Washington it's a very
important job because if Godforbid, world War III starts,
the president gets on Air ForceOne and goes to wherever he has
to go, so it's important thatit's always loaded with fuel.
(25:47):
What happened was this guy wasthere for hours waiting for the
clearance to be able to fuel AirForce One.
The reason why he was delayedwas there was a cleaning company
that was used to clean out AirForce One and Lifton supposes
that they had to deal with theblood and all that.
(26:07):
What's also interesting is oneof the doctors at Bethesda said
that the president had his armraised and in rigor mortis and
he had to like press down on itand Lifton didn't understand how
that could have occurred and hegave the scenario to an
(26:29):
ex-girlfriend of his who he saidwas really brilliant.
She says oh, that's easy If youwere correct and he was placed
on a galley shelf.
What happened was when theplane made a steep turn, he
moved a little bit and his armdropped.
So when his arm dropped, nowwhen you lay him on his back,
rigor mortis kicking in the armis sticking up.
(26:51):
So it seems that also.
Let's go back to Parkland for asecond.
The initial incision to inserta tracheal tube was done over a
bullet hole, so it was a cleanincision.
When you look at the autopsyphotographs, it's this massive
(27:18):
gash which a tracheal tube couldnot have functioned.
Within that gash it would havebeen impossible because it has
to seal around it.
It has to seal around it.
So it's just more indicationthat actually somebody was there
to take bullets out of thepresident.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah, it seems to be.
We're in Parkland to take thebody.
We're back on the plane, right,jacqueline's in the back with
the body and LBJ is about to besworn in.
He calls some judge thatKennedy hated.
Actually, right, right, somejudge he wanted removed, or
something like that to swear himin a federal judge, or Kennedy
didn't want to appoint him, orsome story like that.
(27:55):
That judge comes to swearJohnson in and he wants
Jacqueline to stand next to himand she makes that statement
about changing her clothes thatyou have already made.
And then, when you watch thevideo, it's the most chilling
thing.
I think, yeah, a little wink,yeah, johnson turns around and
(28:20):
his friend I don't know who thatwas.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah, the name escapes me, but his buddy was a
Texas congressman and he givesJohnson a nice wink and it's
captured in a photograph of theswearing-in which Johnson lied
about because he said he askedBobby Kennedy if he had to be
sworn in.
Now everybody knows that theassumption to the presidency is
(28:42):
immediate for the vice presidentonce the president is dead, so
you don't have to be sworn in.
If you're the vice president,you immediately assume the
presidency.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
But I saw actually not just a picture, photograph,
I saw a video on one of thethings where you literally see
these guys winking at each otherand the president of the United
States was just assassinated inan open car and they're winking
at each other like it was somekind of he got a big smile on
his face yeah.
Like you were right.
You were right all those yearsago when you said you'll take
(29:18):
your odds.
You took your odds and you won.
It's unbelievable to someextent.
So now the body supposedly andJohnson, they come back to
Washington.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
What's interesting?
Just one other thing about thebody.
By all accounts, a significantportion of the president's brain
was blown out.
Yet in the autopsy at Bethesdahis brain weighs in at above
average.
More proof that there wasskullduggery going on with the
(29:48):
autopsy and some of the resultsthat they created.
Because if the guy lost asignificant portion of his brain
, this is from the Parklanddoctors and nurses, I mean, they
could see in there.
Even Clint Hill said that thepresident had a big hole in the
back of his head Right.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
We saw it on the video too.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
And yet they took his brain, they put it at the
Smithsonian or the NationalArchives or wherever it is, and
now it's missing, right.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah, I think I know where it is.
I think it's actually with him.
A lot of people don't know this, but in 1967, Bobby Kennedy and
Ted Kennedy were at thegravesite and they brought the
president up, they disinterredhim and I think that's where
Bobby Kennedy placed some ofthat stuff.
(30:38):
Yeah, I think it's in there.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I didn't know that.
Yeah Forward, oswald is beingheld at the Dallas Police, at
Dallas Police, and on Sundaymorning they're going to move
him somewhere.
Where were they moving him to?
I don't even know that.
I think the County jail.
They were moving in the Countyjail.
And also something that Ihappened to be watching on
television on a Sunday morning,with my parents on TV trays
(31:02):
eating muffins or something, andlo and behold, jack Ruby comes
out of nowhere and shoots theguy.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
So Jack Ruby was a Chicago gangster.
He was not a May guy becausehe's Jewish.
Jack Rubenstein is actually hisname, I guess Jacob Rubenstein.
He had a couple of places inDallas where you had strippers
and you had comedians andwhatnot.
(31:32):
The Carousel Club was one ofthe names, and people saw him in
the presence of Lee HarveyOswald.
Purportedly he went to visit HL Hunt the day before the
assassination with anothergentleman who on the 22nd was
(31:53):
arrested coming out of the DowTech's building.
Nobody knows what they werethere for, but it's very
interesting.
But Ruby was a verywell-connected gangster.
He spent some time in Cuba.
People say that he was the guythat went down there when Castro
took over Cuba.
He took control of the casinos.
(32:14):
Santos Traficante, who was themob boss of Florida, was in Cuba
at the time and he was thrownin jail and people say that it
was Jack Ruby who went therewith a package of money to get
him out of prison.
So he was a very well-connectedguy and interestingly, he was
(32:37):
stalking Oswald.
There was a 12 o'clock pressconference Friday night,
saturday morning and somebodymade an incorrect statement as
to Oswald's affiliations.
Somebody said the Free CubaMovement and it was Jack Ruby,
who corrected it and said fairplay for Cuba, and you could see
(33:00):
in video.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
I have seen them and I saw Ruby there seen them and I
saw Ruby there, Ruby's there.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
So then, so that's Friday night, saturday, the
Dallas police get a call and theguy on the other end says don't
move Oswald tomorrow becausehe's going to be shot, don't
move him tomorrow.
And the guy hangs up and thepolice officer took the call.
(33:25):
Yeah, I was like geez, hisvoice is familiar.
And then Sunday morning whenRuby shoots Oswald, he goes oh,
that was Jack Ruby.
Now I know who it was.
He recognized the voice, hejust couldn't put it together at
that time.
So Ruby on one hand was stalkingOswald, on another hand, he
didn't want to go ahead and doit.
(33:47):
There is a brief, one minute orso interview of Ruby.
After he has spoken with theWarren Commission went to Dallas
to interview him.
He asked to be taken toWashington because he felt that
he couldn't tell them what hewanted to, and he talks about
(34:08):
that.
People in very high positionsput him in the position that
he's in now and the reportersaid are these people still in
power?
And he said yes.
And so he certainly knew alittle bit about where the
octopus of this assassination,where it led to.
One of the things that'sinteresting about Ruby is a book
(34:30):
was done on him concerning hisactivities prior to the
assassination, with a bigemphasis on his telephone calls,
and you just see itskyrocketing from September into
November talking to mob guys.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
And it's funny when you see the video and you see it
recently with the sound on youhear a horn honk and they bring
Ruby out and then you hearanother horn honk and then he's
shot.
So it almost was like a signal.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I happened to run into somebody who told me I
don't know how true it is thatit was his father who was
handcuffed to Lee Harvey Oswaldthat day.
He was a Dallas police officer,he was a detective.
He wore a white suit with awhite cowboy hat or something
like that, and if you see hisface he was shocked.
(35:21):
He said my dad, he found out hewas the only guy in the whole
police department that didn'tknow that Oswald was going to be
shot that day.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, that's the thing you can't tell the guy,
because then he's going tobehave differently.
So that's how that works youcan never tell the guy.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
So now Oswald's dead, the Warren Commission does
their thing.
They come up with this crazysingle bullet.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Yes, Arlen Specter.
He was an attorney for theWarren Commission, then he
became mayor of Philadelphia, Ibelieve, and then he became a
Republican senator, us senatorfrom the state of Pennsylvania.
All based on the lie of thesingle bullet theory, which
stated that what happened wasthey found a bullet at Parkland
(36:10):
Hospital, supposedly I saysupposedly because the chain of
evidence would not pass legalmuster.
But I digress.
They find this bullet, which isit's not pristine.
People call it the pristinebullet.
It's not really pristine.
If you look at the back part ofit, it's squeezed a little bit,
it's missing some pieces, butthe nose of it is in pretty good
(36:34):
shape.
Now, because they said that theyonly had three shells, three
spent cartridges in the TexasSchool Book Depository.
They would only go with threeshots.
So you have the president ishit in the back, he's hit in the
throat.
He's hit in the head, connolly.
A shot goes through his bodyand winds up in his leg.
(36:58):
His wrist is destroyed by ashot.
You have a shot that hits thechrome of the limousine.
You have another shot thatcomes through the front
windshield.
You got shots all over theplace, but to put together
Kennedy's wounds and Connolly'swounds, arlen Specter went to
work and he said one bullet wentin Kennedy's back, came out his
(37:22):
throat, went to Connolly's back, came out, smashed his wrist
and then wound up in his thigh.
Here are several problems withthat theory.
The Warren Commission hired aguy his name escapes me, but he
was a World War II ballisticsguy and he knew rifles.
(37:48):
He knew bullets.
They gave him I don't know ifit was the exact rifle, but
certainly a 6.5 MannlicherCarcano.
They gave him 100 rounds.
He shot 100 rounds intocadavers' wrists.
All 100 were severely damaged.
Now it wasn't just Connolly'swrist that was destroyed, it
(38:12):
also hit one of his ribs anddestroyed his rib.
That's why the two surgeriesyeah, it's physically impossible
for a bullet for that bullet tohave traversed both men and
come out in that condition.
Second problem with itmathematics.
There was more bullet fragmentsin Connolly's thigh than was
(38:37):
physically missing from thebullet which is called CE-399.
It just doesn't hold up.
It just doesn't hold up.
What we found out later isbecause the president had
obviously a hole in his coatwhich matched the hole in his
shirt, which was low.
(38:58):
It was down at the I believethey call it the third thoracic
vertebrae, which is about six,eight inches down from your neck
.
Gerald Ford admitted that, thathe raised the wound for
clarification purposes.
(39:19):
He didn't raise the wound forclarification, they needed it
for the trajectory because thebullet hole in the president's
back was far lower than histhroat.
So it was physically impossiblefor a shot to come from the
sixth floor depository and hitat that location and then go
upwards.
So you have a lot of problemswith the single bullet theory
(39:43):
and it really hasn't held upthrough time as people
understand more and more aboutit.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah, it's very interesting.
No one believed it at the time,except for the Warren
Commission.
I don't think anyone believedit.
And you think about who was onthe Warren Commission.
You had Gerald Ford, who laterbecomes the only non-elected
president of the United States.
You have Dulles, who hatedKennedy with a passion and was
fired by him, and was fired byhim much to his dismay.
(40:13):
And who am I forgetting?
There's one other one, that'sreally, and a lot of people were
intimidated.
They were afraid to speak.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
And basically the FBI is what really ran the Warren
Commission investigation Right,and initially it was.
The whole thing was one guy didit and he had no connections
with anybody else, and that'sthat the one thing which is
interesting.
They have never, ever been ableto come up with a motive, so
(40:47):
they left that out.
People who they interviewed aguy named George DeMoreshild who
was a—they were called whiteRussians, they were
anti-communist Russians was a.
They were called white Russians, they were anti-communist
Russians.
He was living in Texas,seemingly very heavy CIA
(41:09):
connections.
He knew Oswald and he said thatOswald spoke fondly of
President Kennedy.
So they never, ever came upwith a motive and they just left
that out of the report.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
They tried to make him like a lunatic a little bit
right.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Yeah, that's the beginning of the lone nut.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
He's a lone nut he doesn't have a motive because
he's a lone nut.
There could be something tothat.
A lot of these documents weresealed.
I remember when we were goingthrough it I was still a kid and
my father said we'll never know.
It won't be in our lifetime.
Somebody will know somewhere inthe future.
And here we are still trying topiece together.
There are some Trump.
When he was president he vowedto release everything and at the
(41:43):
ninth hour the CIA came in andsaid you can't release these 200
documents, you can't do it.
I think it's a few thousand.
I think it's a couple thousand.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
He has since said that people said do you think
the CIA was involved?
He goes yeah, I think that theywere involved.
But yeah, it's unfortunate thathe didn't release that
information.
We would have found out.
But I think it all depends onwhat happens in November.
But I think that there's enoughout there to realize that this
was not the work of one man,that this was a very involved
(42:16):
conspiracy, and I think that'spretty much established.
You'd have to go through lifewith your eyes closed to really
think that Lee Harvey Oswald didthis alone, and half of those
people that profess thatprobably are working for the CIA
anyway.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
True, I guess what I would recommend everyone to see
besides the movie JFK, which isnot factually correct.
But they definitely bring a lotof questions and it definitely
brought on a lot of things.
There's a few things I usuallywatch.
I watch JFK, Three Shots Fired,the Change in the World, it's
just ongoing, all movies of whatwe're taking that day, and I
(42:55):
don't even think there's anycommentary.
It's just all kinds of filmsfrom all different viewpoints.
And then what I like a lot andI think Dom has seen it as well
is JFK Destiny Betrayed, whichis a documentary in four parts.
There's a three-part one outthere, but the four-part one
(43:15):
goes into much detail and ifthis kind of stuff bothers you,
you'll never make it through thefirst episode.
That's all I could say.
My sister who watched it, who Itried to watch it with, said I
can't take it anymore.
I can't believe this is whatour government did to us.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Yeah, I would say.
If you don't have a lot of timeon your hands, but you would
like to read about the subject,I would give you.
I recommend two books.
One is written by James Douglas, it's called JFK and the
Unspeakable, and that's a bookthat even Robert F Kennedy Jr
says he feels is the best on theassassination.
(43:51):
Another one is a little knownbook.
It's called Farewell America.
It was written in 1968 underthe pseudonym of James Hepburn
and in 1968, it was illegal tobring that book into the United
States.
You would be arrested and finedand I have an original copy of
(44:13):
that book.
By the 80s you could buy them.
They changed the law around andthe book talks about mob guys,
oil men, spies, and it puts theentire assassination together in
such a way that you couldunderstand the size of it, size
and scope of it and what itmeant to American history.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
There were a lot of moving parts and we can get into
that, but we don't necessarilyhave to the look back at who was
involved and it's really allspeculation and kinds of things.
One of the interesting stories,I always think is so they bring
the body back and they're goingto do the autopsy at Bethesda.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Bethesda.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
And so what do they do?
They grab a whole bunch ofdoctors that never done an
autopsy before but they'reofficers, and they bring a whole
bunch of generals in a room whoare like the joint chiefs.
And if anybody's ever served inthe military, or known anybody
that's served in the military,when a general walks in the room
it's like God on earth Allright.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
The Kennedy autopsy was jam-packed.
It must have been.
Bethesda, must have been like ateaching place as well, because
there were grandstands thereand they've been able to
determine at least 33 people inthe audience and the surgeons
none of them were forensic guys.
I don't think any of them hadto deal with bullet wounds.
(45:39):
Some of them they've doneautopsies, but that's like heart
attacks and that sort of thing,nothing like this.
And the top people in theUnited States were waiting for
the call.
That never came that night.
But what happened was theystarted the autopsy and they
start smelling smoke and one ofthe autopsy surgeons goes to an
(46:02):
orderly you see that guy overthere.
Tell him to put out that cigar.
There was a guy smoking a cigar.
So the orderly goes up to himand he says, sir, can you put
out that cigar?
And the guy took a big draw onthe cigar and he blew all the
smoke in Horderly's face.
And it was Curtis LeMay, thehead of the Air Force Joint
(46:22):
Chiefs of Staff.
His hatred of Kennedy was suchthat he personally and I think
he was in Canada, I think he wasin Toronto, I don't know if he
was fishing or hunting or whathe was doing, but he flew down
just to view the autopsy.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
And Bay of Pigs, all kinds of things.
Lemay hated Kennedy and it'swell known and I think it's well
documented.
But both Dom and I believe thatLeMay had nothing to do with
the assassination, even thoughthat he was the Grim Reaper
enjoying the autopsy, if youwill, of what happened to this
(47:01):
guy.
Whether he knew who did it ornot may be another story, but
for some reason neither one ofus think that he had no role in
it.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Yeah, curtis LeMay wanted to attack during the
Cuban Missile Crisis.
And then in 1962, he presentedPresident Kennedy with a plan to
launch a full-scale nuclear waragainst the Soviet Union in the
fall of 1963.
And after hearing LeMay's plan,kennedy famously stated and
(47:34):
they call us the human race.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Yeah, he wanted to bring the whole world to an end.
So I hope, as this is going toend up being a two-parter, we
hope that gives you a littleedification.
For those of you that weren'talive during that period I don't
know if Dom was, but I was, butvery little.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Actually, I was born on September 11th 1963.
I'm saying birthdays this week,yep, and my grandmother said
that I saw Ruby kill Oswald.
She was holding me on her lapand we were watching the TV.
So that's what she said I sawyeah.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
I'm obviously a little older than that, but it
is an amazing part when they sayit's when we lost our innocence
.
I think it's.
We became aware of what reallygoes on in the world is what
happened.
Having said that, I hope youenjoy this episode.
We're going to do another one,dom and I.
The next one is going to beabout the RFK assassination,
(48:29):
which is not as elaborate, but Ithink there's more information
that's more transparent aboutactually what was going on that
day, or on that night, if youwill, or morning.
It's a very interesting storyand I think it says a lot about
what was going on in America inthe 1960s and, frankly, it's
probably going on today as well.
(48:51):
So, having said that, thank youall very much for listening.
Thanks, dom, dom, for all hishard work and putting it all
together, and we will see youagain or here you hopefully you
enjoy it and please leave ussome comments.
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